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(第五案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查)\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員賴士葆等17人擬具「個人資料保護法第四十七條、第四十八條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱志偉等22人擬具「個人資料保護法第二十一條、第二十九條及第三十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「個人資料保護法第四十七條、第四十八條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員黃捷等17人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員許宇甄等22人擬具「個人資料保護法第六條條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n三、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「離島建設條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員鄭天財等22人擬具「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「離島建設條例增訂第十三條之一及第十三條之二條文草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員陳玉珍等17人擬具「離島建設條例增訂第十八條之一條文草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「離島建設條例第二條及第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員陳瑩等18人擬具「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。(詢答)）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.96221875,"end":9.919718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.290968750000001,"end":11.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.552218750000002,"end":14.087843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.63159375,"end":22.559093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.94721875,"end":25.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.39409375,"end":27.992843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.54971875,"end":30.794093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.96284375,"end":34.658468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.11409375,"end":42.876593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.079093750000006,"end":64.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.62409375,"end":66.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.70409375,"end":71.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.91846875,"end":77.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.47096875,"end":74.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.54659375,"end":75.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.71096875,"end":76.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.47034375,"end":86.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.66721875,"end":91.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.23596875000001,"end":92.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.75909375,"end":94.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.46346875,"end":96.03284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.04971875000001,"end":96.67409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.79596875,"end":99.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.84659375000001,"end":99.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.88034375000001,"end":99.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.93096875,"end":100.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.62284375,"end":104.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.30159375000001,"end":112.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.94159375000001,"end":113.81909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.97534375000001,"end":115.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.72596875,"end":118.39221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.72971875,"end":120.68721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.31159375000001,"end":122.18909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.62784375000001,"end":124.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.51784375000001,"end":127.84221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.89284375000001,"end":131.33534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.45346875,"end":133.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.46159375000002,"end":156.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.75471875000002,"end":149.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.13409375,"end":151.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.37784375,"end":158.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.67284375,"end":161.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.59221875,"end":162.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.26284375,"end":165.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.41846875000002,"end":166.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.90346875,"end":172.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.35409375,"end":176.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.47596875000002,"end":178.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.29409375,"end":190.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.52971875,"end":183.61409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.83346875,"end":183.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.48221875000002,"end":213.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.78659375,"end":216.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.38534375,"end":220.43534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.82346875000002,"end":221.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.24096875,"end":223.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.70909375000002,"end":224.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.58659375000002,"end":232.58534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.91034375,"end":232.53471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.58534375000002,"end":235.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.63971875000001,"end":237.12471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.58034375000003,"end":240.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.9047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「增一氣就減煤」，同時在兩個禮拜前，在這裡我問了郭部長跟曾董事長，他們都承諾，也就是第一期兩部燃氣機組上線之後，才兩部的燃煤機組……"],["連次長錦漳：才兩部燃煤。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，這個是承諾嘛！"],["連次長錦漳：對、對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你不用怕，我們實質來討論，你不用緊張，但現在為什麼會開了一張未來8年的超時空支票？所以我要註解一個，也就是說，原本我們有臺中市議會所通過的生煤管制條例的燃煤量，現在卓院長在8號時竟然如此宣布，我再重複一次。他宣布2032年檢討6部燃煤機組的存廢，換句話說，跟王美花部長當時說的「增一氣、拆一煤」是跳票了，這是第一個。第二個，有關煤的總量，我們看到如果依照卓院長的說法，換句話說，從現在到2031年就沒有減煤的計畫，所以本席要問次長，你們的減煤計畫到底是怎麼樣？請說明。"],["連次長錦漳：我跟委員報告，剛剛提到，現在到2026年第一部燃煤機組上線……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個是我們確認。"],["連次長錦漳：對，這個確認。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是差一步，就是「增一氣、拆一煤」，這個是確認，大家都承諾，而且會做到，我要謝謝。接下來我要請問，院長突然8號宣布，2031年以後才要去討論，而且減300萬噸。"],["連次長錦漳：對、對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以要請問，從現在到2031年有7年的時間，你們的減煤計畫是什麼？請做說明。"],["連次長錦漳：我跟委員報告，現在到2026會拆兩部。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，這是承諾的。"],["連次長錦漳：對、對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我讚許王美花部長。"],["連次長錦漳：然後再來第二期會有第二期的計畫。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對。"],["連次長錦漳：第二期計畫就是剛才委員講的，2031到2034我們會有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對議題回答，2031年你的量是要從1,260萬噸減300萬噸，也就是到900萬噸，所以本席要請問，從現在到2031年，這7年你的減煤計畫是什麼？"],["連次長錦漳：我請副總稍微說明一下。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請說明，你告訴我總量。"],["郭副總經理天合：主席、委員好。委員剛剛的提報裡面有關2025年，經濟部長王部長的時候，她在承諾……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對……主席，抗議，我已經運用了將近5分鐘的時間針對本席要請問的，我把整個background講得這麼清楚，我們臺中人用肺發電，你們要看到我們的健康問題，我們付出了那麼多，沒有理由不照顧我們，所以我針對卓院長8號到台電視察的時候所提出的2031年的說法，從現在到2031年，我請問你們的減煤計畫是怎麼樣？數字告訴我。"],["郭副總經理天合：現在是2023年，截至到目前為止……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在是2024年。"],["郭副總經理天合：2024年（113年），我們現在目前的減煤有分兩個部分，一個是短期隨著空污量的環評規定裡面，每天都自主性在減煤，這是一件事。第二件事情，臺中電廠的一期計畫跟二期計畫裡面，到目前為止，除了短期計畫以外，我們現在只要是2025年第一部燃氣機組上來，就回歸到剛剛委員講的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你是副總吧？"],["郭副總經理天合：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你是副總，你了解這個情況嗎？次長。"],["連次長錦漳：知道。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：從頭到尾，這時間要扣除。"],["連次長錦漳：我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我運用了5分鐘的時間告訴你所有的背景，告訴你，副總，目前我們的燃煤量大概是1,200萬噸。"],["連次長錦漳：對、對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：大概是1,200萬噸，如果從2031年才要去檢討，1,260萬噸要減300，減到900，從現在開始到2031年這7年，我們臺中人怎麼辦？"],["連次長錦漳：委員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我要請問你的是，我們臺中人怎麼辦？所以我要你的數字，我告訴你……"],["連次長錦漳：委員，我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你請聽，聽清楚。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我要你聽清楚，從現在到2031年，我們目前大概是1,100到1,200，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你都一直點頭，那你為什麼不回答本席的問題、臺中人的問題呢？從現在開始到2031年，卓揆所公布的，才要討論減300萬噸。"],["連次長錦漳：不會啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我請問，從現在到2031年，你每一年的減煤計畫要怎麼做？把你的數字告訴我，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：這個資料我們是不是會後再整個把剛才委員講的，從2026到2031……因為這個不是只有燃氣，設天然氣，還有一些其他計畫性的減煤，我們把這個所有的規畫送到委員辦公室。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我希望我們社會大眾看到，在立法院我們理性的在討論，我們代表民眾來，希望能夠聽到聲音，我們不希望讓民眾恐慌，但是我們要知道真實的答案，因為我要告訴次長，目前你們告訴我們有各種方案，可是在8號的時候告訴我們，竟然要到2031年才要去討論，從1,260萬噸要減300萬，等於到900萬，我們現在要怎麼辦？我現在告訴你，你們告訴卓揆的資訊是這麼的不精準，我們現在燃煤就已經是1,100到1,200，他竟然很坦白的告訴我們2031年是1,260，換句話說，增氣我支持，但是增氣，你必須要減煤啊！你如果增氣不減煤，就會誠如卓揆所說的，是越來越多！次長，你懂臺中人的心聲嗎？臺中人這麼辛苦！所以我繼續要來請問……再給我2分鐘時間，謝謝。","我要請問，也就是你所謂的新核能，次長，你所謂的新核能，我們的工業總會潘理事長跟你們的郭部長在交流的時候，郭部長說未來一定會落實新核能，那麼中研院的廖院長也說臺灣沒有任何放棄乾淨能源的本錢，國家能源不能排除核電，對不對？而且之前也說不排除任何乾淨的能源，你們經濟部是採非常開放的態度，對不對？採非常開放的態度，是不是？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，有關新核能這一塊，經濟部當然是尊重各界對核能檢討的一個立場。誠如剛才委員講的，政府對於新核能的技術，我們是持開放的態度。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：開放的嘛！所以我給你這個功課，你要不要去討論？你的環境基本法第二十三條要不要去修？你的神主牌要不要去修？非核家園，這個才是真正採非常開放。因此，你非常開放，你光看光電，現在我們的國土法……我要給你這個功課，國土法內政部仍舊要在4月份上路，現在已經在執行的這一些光電，未來它如果牽涉在農一、農二的這個特農範圍之內，是不是會整個取消？會不會影響到電力的增長？會不會？你們怎麼做、怎麼應對？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，我們的能源用地白皮書已經送到內政部了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你送到內政部是什麼意思？是已經申請，還是維持，還是怎麼樣？"],["連次長錦漳：我們建議它有關光電這一塊要放到這次修正的國土計畫裡面。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要放到這次國土計畫的，有放進去嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：還沒。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還沒嘛，所以明年4月怎麼上路呢？講一套做一套，你們要加油啊！"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們一方面要能源、要能夠加入，內政部給你搞了一個飛機，那麼大的一個金箍罩給你，國土法明年4月如果他們真的霸王硬上弓，就要上路，那你怎麼辦？請教。"],["連次長錦漳：我們現在會極力來跟內政部這邊配合。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：嚴正以待。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。我們請經濟部把相關的一些問題，事後到楊瓊瓔委員辦公室做一個清楚的說明。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["主席：接下來請賴瑞隆委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-13","speakers":["呂玉玲","鄭正鈐","陳玉珍","許宇甄","徐巧芯","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","陳超明","黃國昌","黃健豪","陳昭姿","吳宗憲","蔡易餘","邱議瑩","謝衣鳯","麥玉珍","林岱樺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":101,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查：(一)本院委員陳玉珍等17人擬具「再生能源發展條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文\n修正草案」案、(二)本院委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「再生能源發展條例第三條條文修正草案」案、\n(三)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「再生能源發展條例第三條及第十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)本\n院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「再生能源發展條例第十九條之一及第二十一條條文修正草案」案、(五)\n本院委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「再生能源發展條例第三條條文修正草案」案（詢答）；二、審查：\n(一)本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員賴士葆\n等17人擬具「個人資料保護法第四十七條、第四十八條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)本\n院委員邱志偉等 22 人擬具「個人資料保護法第二十一條、第二十九條及第三十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(四)本院委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(五)本院台\n灣民眾黨黨團擬具「個人資料保護法第四十七條、第四十八條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、\n(六)本院委員黃捷等17人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員許宇甄等\n22人擬具「個人資料保護法第六條條文修正草案」案（詢答）；三、審查：(一)本院委員陳亭妃\n等16人擬具「離島建設條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員鄭天財等22人擬具「離\n島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「離島建設條例增訂第\n十三條之一及第十三條之二條文草案」案、(四)本院委員陳玉珍等17人擬具「離島建設條例增訂\n第十八條之一條文草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「離島建設條例第二條及第十五條\n之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員陳瑩等18人擬具「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」\n案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}