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各位先進 請一下蔡局長來 局長請好 謝謝主席 賴委員長局長早 這個我們看到現在APEC正在開嘛是不是"},{"start":20.41,"end":39.03,"text":"看到說習近平跟拜登在APEC要談有關於他們政權交接這段時間,簡單講啦,用白話文講啦,就是政權交接這段時間叫老共不要軍演啦,盡可能不要軍演,是不是這樣?"},{"start":40.15,"end":41.711,"text":"白宮有相關的聲明有提到拜習會確實會提到美方對於台海情勢穩定的關注"},{"start":59.034,"end":84.848,"text":"我原先這樣解釋,我們尊重,但他原來的條文是這樣不是尊重我嗎?白宮的公告的內容是說會表達對台海安全穩定的關切關切嗎?這個是不是可以解讀啊?這個大家都知道啦,但是我希望從你嘴巴裡面講在現在拜登也好,未來的川普還是要中美兩大國共管台灣,這國要成立嗎?"},{"start":86.363,"end":92.788,"text":"委員的觀察我們都尊重,你們的觀察我們都尊重同意啦,不用尊重要同意嗎?你同意嗎?我們尊重你這樣說都sneaky你知道嗎?那Hollywood都抓不到,北京都那Hollywood,你是有泥鰍吧?泥鰍很難抓的"},{"start":116.775,"end":132.167,"text":"臺灣的安全是等於是看中美兩大國我們要話聲一下啊老師他們兩個人講話林希尼也在那裏啊你有沒有交代一下賴總統有沒有交代一下林希尼說我關在這裏我要出聲一下"},{"start":135.549,"end":151.421,"text":"請各位說明一下APEC的專案國安局大概負責的是維安的安全這部份是我們的職責那其他部份可能假如涉及到外交部門的話應該由外交部門來對外說明比較恰當這個到底那合理的說掉以後所以你就很難抓住這個沒有第一個我要強調的一點在這裡國會電台我要強調大家都看到等於台灣的安全中美兩大國來共同共管"},{"start":164.031,"end":166.896,"text":"我們是當事人,我們要發聲啊!我們要講話啊!結果我們都不講話,就變成他們兩個決定我們的前途喔!"},{"start":177.059,"end":199.816,"text":"臺美之間的溝通非常的緊密跟順暢那只要美國有資深官員跟對岸有任何接觸慣例上來講都會讓我方來知道那這部分要由外交部門來說明我們跟對岸的溝通呢我現在一邊通一邊不通啊這才是一個很悲哀的地方啦好吧這個東西你都不講啊這個我們再看另外一個題目"},{"start":201.395,"end":224.001,"text":"現在來講臺灣遭受到網路攻擊多不多有在增加一直在增加當中對於各樣的網路攻擊除了防禦追蹤以外有沒有人力及時下架對方的站點有沒有可能委員講的是那個所謂認知作戰假訊息嗎對假訊息以及暗網的情緒的部分等等"},{"start":224.321,"end":246.124,"text":"有沒有人力有沒有人力有有有因為這個部分對因為這個部分只要假訊息他有違反我們政府的法令的話國家法令的話我們是可以來進行檢舉要求他下架第一部分第二部分假如假訊息是違反了社群平台網站管理的規定的話我們也可以跟社群平台來檢舉請他下架有這個機制對按網你有沒有辦法人力管"},{"start":246.604,"end":250.466,"text":"國防部情報局一列一缸子的長官通通在暗網裡面可以買賣價格多少呢260塊USDT就是要太大幣啊260塊等於差不多260塊美金"},{"start":274.035,"end":289.241,"text":"國防部情報局的相關的長官的資料各自的資料都在這裡都在這裡260塊USDT這一部分國安局你們是管情報的對不過有抓一抓吧這個"},{"start":290.381,"end":308.906,"text":"我們會注意這些船扇背後有沒有一些有系統的操作這第一部分那第二部分那個資料情資正確與否是不是真的資訊應該要由國防部來經過查證之後再來看是不是我看了一下都好真勒我拖行的不要念了這個不要念了這個你要我給你啦東西260塊台幣可以買鋼紙"},{"start":314.967,"end":315.108,"text":"賴士葆委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":415,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（10時42分）謝謝主席，各位先進，請一下蔡局長。"],["主席：來，局長請。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，賴委員早。"],["賴委員士葆：局長早。我們看到現在APEC正在開，看到習近平跟拜登在APEC要談有關於他們政權交接這段時間，簡單用白話文講，就是政權交接這段時間叫老共儘可能不要軍演，是不是這樣？白話文這樣講可以嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，也差不多，白宮相關的聲明有提到拜習會確實會提到美方對於臺海情勢穩定的關注，有這樣的訊息……"],["賴委員士葆：簡單講，就是希望政權交接不要軍演，簡單講就是這樣，有這樣講嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，委員這樣解釋我們尊重，但他原來的條文……"],["賴委員士葆：是不是這樣？不是尊重我。"],["蔡局長明彥：白宮公告的內容是說，會表達對臺海安全穩定的關切。"],["賴委員士葆：關切！這是不是可以解讀……這個大家都知道，但是我希望從你嘴巴講出來，不管是現在的拜登也好，未來的川普也好，還是一樣中、美兩大國共管臺灣，這句話成立嗎？可以這樣講嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：委員的觀察我們都尊重。"],["賴委員士葆：不能只講尊重，要同意啦，你同意嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：我們尊重。"],["賴委員士葆：你這樣講很皮，你知道嗎？像「鰗鰡」一樣抓不住，你知道泥鰍嗎？泥鰍很難抓、抓不住，對不對？大家都這樣認為，譬如臺灣的安全等於是看中、美兩大國，我們要喊一下啊，老是他們兩個人講話，現在林信義也在那裡啊，你們有沒有交代一下？賴總統有沒有交代一下林信義說，我在這裡，我也要出聲一下，可以嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：跟委員說明一下，關於APEC的專案，國安局大概負責的是維安的安全，這部分是我們的職責；其他的部分假如涉及到外交部門的話，應該由外交部門來對外說明比較恰當。"],["賴委員士葆：這個跟「鰗鰡」一樣，溜掉了！所以你就很難抓住。第一個，我要強調的一點，在這裡國會殿堂我要強調，大家都看到，等於臺灣的安全由中美兩大國來共管，我們是當事人，我們要出聲一下啊！我們要講話啊！結果我們都不講話，就變成他們兩個決定我們的前途，這樣可以嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：跟委員說明一下，臺美之間的溝通非常地緊密跟順暢，只要美國有資深官員跟對岸有任何接觸，慣例上來講都會讓我方知道，這部分要由外交部門來說明比較清楚。"],["賴委員士葆：我們跟對岸的溝通呢？我們現在一邊通、一邊不通啊！這才是一個很悲哀的地方。好吧！這個東西你都不講，我們再看另外一個題目。","現在來講，臺灣遭受到網路攻擊多不多？"],["蔡局長明彥：有在增加。"],["賴委員士葆：一直在增加當中？"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["賴委員士葆：對於各樣的網路攻擊，除了防禦、追蹤以外，有沒有能力即時下架對方的站點？有沒有可能？"],["蔡局長明彥：委員講的是所謂認知作戰假訊息可不可以下架？"],["賴委員士葆：對，假訊息以及暗網情資的部份等等，有沒有能力？"],["蔡局長明彥：有。"],["賴委員士葆：有？"],["蔡局長明彥：對。因為這部分只要假訊息有違反我們政府的國家法令的話，我們是可以來進行檢舉，要求它下架，這是第一部分。第二部分，假如假訊息是違反了社群平台網站管理的規定的話，我們也可以跟社群平台來檢舉，請它下架，有這個機制。"],["賴委員士葆：對暗網你有沒有辦法、能力管？"],["蔡局長明彥：暗網比較難，因為暗網很多張貼的IP位置是會跳動。"],["賴委員士葆：局長，我這個不show在PPT裡面，因為這是我的助理在暗網裡面找到的資料。國防部情報局一列、一缸子的長官通通在暗網裡面可以買賣，價格多少呢？260塊USDT，就是要泰達幣260塊，等於差不多260塊美金，國防部情報局相關長官的資料都在這裡。針對這一部分，國安局你們是管情報的，也去抓一抓吧！"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我們會來注意這些傳散背後有沒有一些有系統的操作，這是第一部分。第二部分，那個資料、情資正確與否，是不是真的資訊，應該要由國防部經過查證之後，再來看是不是對外說明。"],["賴委員士葆：我看了一下，都好真！頭銜我都不要唸了，這個不要唸了……"],["蔡局長明彥：對，由業管單位。"],["賴委員士葆：你要的話，我可以給你啦！這個東西260塊泰達幣，可以買一缸子。"],["主席：賴委員，你花錢買的？"],["賴委員士葆：我花錢買的？去看的啦！"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝賴委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝賴士葆委員。局長請回，謝謝。","接下來進行詢答委員王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員不在。","麥玉珍委員、麥玉珍委員、麥玉珍委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","郭昱晴委員、郭昱晴委員、郭昱晴委員不在。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","吳思瑤委員、吳思瑤委員、吳思瑤委員不在。","洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員不在。","邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員不在。","葉元之委員、葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在。","今日已登記質詢委員除不在場外，均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。","本日會議有林憶君委員、陳永康委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄，並刊登公報，請相關機關以書面於兩週內答復。委員口頭質詢未及答復部分，或要求補充資料者，亦請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供；委員另約定期限者，從其所定。以上如有涉及機密部分，請確實依相關保密規定辦理。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-13","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","洪申翰","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林憶君","陳永康","林楚茵"],"page_start":71,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄【含秘密會議】","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家安全局收支公開及機密部分（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}