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我想委員很關心這一個運動的推動還有體育的推動這是相當好的那我首先跟委員報告實際上蔡總統上任以來我們對於運動的這個推動包括我們教育部體育署還有國家運動訓練中心還有國家運動科學中心都逐漸的成立而且我們的運動員也都有很好的表現那在世界上很多的國家實際上體育還有運動"},{"start":2497.142,"end":2522.517,"text":"議員"},{"start":2522.877,"end":2527.159,"text":"但是我也曉得賴副總統把他當作他總統的政見您也把他當作很重要的政見這個我們大家來考慮"},{"start":2545.829,"end":2566.536,"text":"按照國外的慣例,很多都是把體育相關、體育教育合在一起。我是不是請人事長也做一個中央組織基本法的簡單的說明。謝謝委員,因為陳儒剛才院長所提的中央行政機關組織基本法,現在的一個數量剛好已經上線。"},{"start":2568.016,"end":2596.287,"text":"我們大概有兩個思考的一個方向一個就是改那個行政那個經過教育暨體育部之類的就是他們合在一起他如果是用combination的複合式的這個會比較單純那如果額外再加一的話那行政機關組織機種法本身就要去改那另外一種可能就是我們再檢討看看哪些部有功能類似的可以整合不過這裡要跟委員報告就是說"},{"start":2597.127,"end":2616.94,"text":"從以前的踢尾會到體育署成立102年成立這大概10年多來那因為我們投入的資源是double所以我們這幾年的運動成績相當的亮眼所以成績運動成績的亮眼事實上是否跟成立一個新的部會成結對正關係我覺得這是我們內部會再來討論"},{"start":2620.482,"end":2641.066,"text":"這也是我再來要強調的就是說其實我很肯定潘部長跟體育署政署長的努力所以長期在體育政策也好或有一些優秀培訓上的用心可是重點來了運動除了這個教育層面跟培養人才的層面以外其實還有另一項相當龐雜的專業就是所謂的運動產業的建設跟發展那如果我們提升這個所謂的層級"},{"start":2649.447,"end":2649.467,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":2665.806,"end":2691.084,"text":"運彩其實它當然有它的公益性可是它其實也有博弈性質所以你叫這個教育推廣工作的教育部來主導這個運彩的發行其實有點尷尬相當程度上有點漢格所以怎麼樣讓專業的部會來處理運動產業發展這一塊而且這一塊其實是比重越佔越大那我想根據運動產業發展條例這個"},{"start":2693.806,"end":2694.807,"text":"台灣電競協會理事長指出說電競的產業非常龐大,選手佔了5%而已。"},{"start":2712.688,"end":2732.688,"text":"﹗"},{"start":2733.088,"end":2733.749,"text":"部長,你認為是不是?"},{"start":2755.69,"end":2780.374,"text":"謝謝委員因為委員對這個長期都很關注也很投入那確實如果從這幾年從蔡總統來跟院這邊的支持台灣的體育發展其實是相關多面向那當然委員所提到的能不能成到步因為體委會過往就是曾經有反覆那我如果從教育部這幾年推動的經驗台灣的體育量能跟運動產業的發展確實相較早期的體委會"},{"start":2784.394,"end":2796.34,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":2797.988,"end":2824.466,"text":"來辦理這個提議事務有他的好處也有他的限制那限制就是因為提議事務很特別他跟國際的對的接口他會是一個常常要代表性那在內部的部分就會覺得提議署長提議署的這個確實是有相對的在碰到這樣的一個難處那當然我這邊也跟委員報告我想提交易部這邊也會持續做相關的整備那當然院這邊有關整個"},{"start":2825.339,"end":2825.64,"text":"另外我再來跟院長討論"},{"start":2841.345,"end":2868.055,"text":"在這個新的任期我提出了八大重點法案今天要跟院長討論的其中兩部法第一部法就是公職人員選罷法的第26條條文的修正草案第二個就是我們所謂的說媒體溢價法那我的提案版本叫做數位新聞發展與民主任性法那首先我說就我們選罷法來討論第26條就是候選人消極資格的這個部分要進行修正"},{"start":2871.478,"end":2888.834,"text":"將預備會選納入不得參選的範疇。那為什麼要這樣做呢?我有兩大思考的方向。第一個,我國法律的原則上是不處罰預備犯的,可是特定犯罪對於社會的危害如果過大,那我覺得預備犯也須受罰。那好比說議長選舉的預備會選,這樣的行為"},{"start":2893.138,"end":2908.653,"text":"非但損害了選舉的公平性也違反民主政治的精神這種是長期的這種把民主這種精神破壞殆盡那所以第二在實際的判決上我們可以發現這個預備會選被認定的這個"},{"start":2913.137,"end":2935.692,"text":"範疇相當的廣泛,像說從私下的謀劃到開口向巨投票人表示說企業家可能可以贊助捐獻,或者說我可以讓你同盒競選,或者說選前一半選後一半等等這些行為的契約行為都算是。所以我想為了杜絕這不肖人士"},{"start":2936.673,"end":2953.611,"text":"繼續利用這個寬廣的空間上下其手本席提案要將預備會選納入候選人消極資格那我也希望行政院或者是內政部或者立法院的同仁可以來支持那院長你認為呢我想預備會選確實"},{"start":2969.934,"end":2973.877,"text":"謝謝林委員已經的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第33位黃仁委員質詢。有請行政院長。再請陳院長備詢。"},{"start":3001.42,"end":3028.987,"text":"黃委員長恭喜您當選立委好感謝在第一次跟行政院長我們陳院長第一次的對話非常的榮幸那當然今天特別要陳述的是現在很多的議題的歧視的問題那我們在2016年5月20日就是蔡英文總統就職的"},{"start":3031.53,"end":3059.475,"text":"當日也就針對原住民的宣言於2016年的8月1日也就是原住民日針對原住民主向國人公開道歉這是一個事實這也是國人最重視尤其是我們全國族人針對這個議題裡面他認為我們原住民已經有曙光"},{"start":3060.424,"end":3083.053,"text":"而且被尊重。但是在2016 8月1日之後公開的向國人我們族人道歉可是後續問題重重所以我把這個啟示的議題裡面特別要談出來那當然我先以勞動部"},{"start":3086.024,"end":3100.863,"text":"就針對2月29日所提出的勞動部部長提出的印度移工談出了一個議題失言失當"},{"start":3102.797,"end":3126.925,"text":"這就是你內心裡面內心裡面對整個不分族群的族人或者是國外都會有歧視的印象裡面何況對國人原住民所以你今天在印度移工裡面的膚色有意見習慣有意見"},{"start":3130.56,"end":3151.943,"text":"你有沒有跟國人解釋你這種心態的發出裡面是到底是什麼原因本來你發出就是歧視的觀點請你說明各位報告我想首先要先澄清我那天的這個所謂膚色相近這個說法我真的沒有任何要歧視"},{"start":3153.251,"end":3162.637,"text":"我真的沒有任何歧視的意思通篇的一個訪問如果你看我從頭到尾其實我是肯定印度移工他們的素質跟工作能力的表現我們也期待說我們的國人"},{"start":3180.747,"end":3208.898,"text":"能夠去了解讓雙方勞務合作能夠順利但我也跟委員說明因為這樣的一個發言不夠精準我也有昨天在請你聽我說明我或許發言不夠精準有造成外界的誤解這個部分我會來檢討那我昨天也對這樣的一個造成一個紛擾誤解我也表達歉意但是我要跟委員說明因為我們的任何勞動政策不反對本勞或外勞"},{"start":3209.838,"end":3223.527,"text":"我們都是平等對待我們都是平等對待絕對不會有歧視的意思今天本席今天我要以這個角度來敬告我們所有在座的官員"},{"start":3225.612,"end":3253.719,"text":"在國內是一個多元的文化我們已經外勞進來我們都以我們勞工的權益包含針對移工或者是外勞進到我們國內來本來就應該要有國法國政的態度還有我們的尊嚴的態度所以這個就是要警告我們很多在位的官員尤其是針對"},{"start":3255.353,"end":3263.775,"text":"副長,離開。好,針對演藝出品的議題,現在我特別要講的是,來,請播放。太陽的!太陽的!太陽的!"},{"start":3301.165,"end":3314.569,"text":"我們教育部長為了嚇死原住民的孩子遭受漢人不斷的惡意啟示本席特別強烈要求執政黨在民進黨的政府"},{"start":3316.738,"end":3337.816,"text":"施政下,從高中到大學的校園社會陸續爆出多起啟示原住民的言論、案件。應立即訂出一個反啟示法。我剛才看了那個"},{"start":3339.011,"end":3340.832,"text":"等一下我先請教一下我們院長是你在任內裡面"},{"start":3368.004,"end":3375.548,"text":"我實際上在我的學術研究當中我很關心原住民的健康的狀況所以包括他的B型肝炎、C型肝炎"},{"start":3389.298,"end":3404.628,"text":"因為我們螺旋桿菌的感染我都有很深入的了解而且也提供了給衛福部讓衛福部在這個偏鄉的地方特別是原住民的部落在提供這一方面的照顧特別像細型肝炎的部分我們也有很多的照顧"},{"start":3405.348,"end":3406.569,"text":"謝謝院長這個是國人每一個"},{"start":3432.369,"end":3456.788,"text":"都應該要有這樣的一個態度,不是針對嚴重原因,但是針對歧視的這個問題最嚴重。所以你們行政院板不管你們制定出反歧視法還有促進平等法這個部分希望能夠盡快的來提案。"},{"start":3457.659,"end":3483.649,"text":"因為我這邊有特別提出這個草案已經提出在今年度那過去裡面可能有吳立華委員還有陳英委員有提出但是並沒有在二讀三讀通過所以今天在歧視的問題不斷的到現在都存在很多我們的孩子我們幾例幾個案例"},{"start":3491.089,"end":3518.791,"text":"民國111年3月24日臺中大理某國中廖姓阿明屬學生因遭罵使原住民霸凌的衝突而跳樓自殺另外在112年4月29日臺中一中舉辦校慶我在臺中市議會率先第一個舉牌跟我們的盧媽媽市長"},{"start":3520.885,"end":3547.277,"text":"特別要求要求一中校長下臺因為他們在研究會的時候他要引用化學的協名裡面的西華納西華納用這個來辦理這個研究會結果裡面賣了什麼馬告飲料馬告這個蛋糕什麼之類的這是什麼"},{"start":3548.26,"end":3573.479,"text":"在這個年代不應該再發生這個年代如果從50年代到60年代有發生比如說在族人跟漢人之間都會有一些原意上的霸凌西華納不是原住民的母語這是你們漢人把西華納引用在我們原住民的身上裡面是不對的"},{"start":3574.731,"end":3599.124,"text":"對整個國人的族人來講的話真的不公平如果按照歷史來講臺灣就是原住民的族人為什麼遭受是這樣因為他是弱勢嗎?不是因為他的環境不好嗎?不是國人在制定我們原住民的政策的時候並沒有完全的弱勢所以有一沒一沒二"},{"start":3600.563,"end":3623.243,"text":"所以這樣的一個政策來講的話對我們原住民是非常非常的不公平我們不是要的補助我們是要的是尊嚴但是要國人制定出的政策要完整的不是有一沒一沒二然後按照六都裡面的財政允許有多少的補助"},{"start":3624.203,"end":3644.795,"text":"國人尤其是行政院制定出是一個一體適用的公平的一個政策這樣的話才不會因為各縣市的財政困難然後沒有辦法提出他針對原住民的政策跟福利應該要從中央開始所以我建議"},{"start":3646.132,"end":3671.045,"text":"反啟示足心法趕快制定出來你們行政院板已經有了那是不是要把你們行政院板的草案拿出提案希望在兩個月內來提出討論所以本席已經提出這個草案那院長你的想法"},{"start":3671.547,"end":3672.548,"text":"而且要盡快2個月內提出"},{"start":3701.616,"end":3731.088,"text":"那教育部長還有言明會主委我特別要講的是原住民的民主法都已經通過之前有委員提出學校法到現在有進步到一讀之後又沒有了學校法是針對全國原住民的實行細則裡面是非常重要為什麼"},{"start":3732.244,"end":3745.857,"text":"因為我們要制定未來在都會區裡面人口多數的都管能夠建置原住民的完全中學因為現在我們很多閒置的學校"},{"start":3746.837,"end":3776.025,"text":"然後我們希望能夠建蓋原住民的完整中學那我們再等再等就是學校法到現在都沒有制定出你們行政院版而且有進入到異讀之後就不了了之本席也提出原住民的學校法也提出這個草案你們也盡快這兩個月內提出你們的行政院版跟報告你們有什麼想法"},{"start":3778.646,"end":3808.244,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們跟教育部這幾年已經先推動了原住民主實驗學校我想委員應該都非常了解這個部分另外也跟委員報告就是關於建構原住民主知識體系這個部分我們也跟教育部各大學正在建置中我想這兩個整個實驗跟知識體系建構之後進一步再跟教育部把怎麼樣要落實原住民主的教育這個部分我們會繼續跟教育部來做一個研商"},{"start":3808.826,"end":3829.682,"text":"國家的政策這麼重要的地方的建設不管道路的建蓋不管是重要的法案都能夠在短時間裡面尤其是這個只不過區區一個原住民的學校法就有那麼困難嗎有那麼困難嗎十大建設在蔣經國的建設裡面"},{"start":3831.827,"end":3851.017,"text":"結果每個一一的都在短時間裡面都一一的能夠建蓋十大建設我們有重大的建設都在建蓋了區區的一個學校法還要你們再繞了一圈是吧兩個月內提出一個報告出來好不好"},{"start":3851.755,"end":3871.298,"text":"委員這個剛剛特別跟委員報告的地方是原住民族實驗學校已經推動了至少7年我們希望透過這樣的經驗怎麼樣讓原鄉跟都會地區的原住民教育推動得更好實驗學校都是你們只是一個堂口吃"},{"start":3872.159,"end":3885.832,"text":"我們完全中寫是要在百年教育裡面讓原住民受到了尊重而且學校法裡面的規定裡面有細則裡面就本來就有相關的補助方案在裡面"},{"start":3887.01,"end":3903.995,"text":"這個補助方案就是制定出讓原住民進入到從幼稚園、國小、國中、高中、大學他必須要受到什麼樣的一個待遇能夠受到在這個地方能夠完全的受到完整教育"},{"start":3904.934,"end":3926.722,"text":"這樣才是真正讓我們原住民在進入到完整中協之後,國民教育,除了國民教育,也受到16組裡面的文化教育,比如說它的狩獵技,比如說原住民的海域技,這個等等的課後的教育,都是在原住民文化的傳承裡面,它有訂出這樣的一個遊戲規則。"},{"start":3927.932,"end":3956.548,"text":"可是為什麼現在沒有這樣的一個遊戲規則才造成什麼很多學校的原住民學生在各校裡面的原意的霸凌在尊嚴上的損害遭受降華請問一下他的尊嚴成長裡面怎麼會完整請問跟委員報告齁當時來原住民主學校法跟建構整個知識體系如主委所說那對於有關"},{"start":3958.156,"end":3982.515,"text":"實驗教育的這部分我也跟委員報告,因為實驗教育其實目前全國屬於在原住民地區有38所的學校。這個部分絕對不是委員剛才提到說是一個比較,因為這個都是很深入的跟相關在部落的學校做了很深刻的討論。而這當中有很多是在課程跟教學,特別在原住民族教育的這部分著力很深,因為我當時也在台中服務。"},{"start":3983.148,"end":3987.21,"text":"部長,我在這邊誠懇的拜託你,請放手交給原民會。因為原民會就是完全知道我們16族的文化包含歷史"},{"start":4011.758,"end":4039.185,"text":"你這樣把如果在曾經還沒有當局長的時候他們走上街頭幹什麼?荒蕪土地。對不對?荒蕪土地。那荒蕪土地的定義在哪裡?就是你尋求了希望能夠回歸歷史定位在這裡面。讓國人知道我們是台灣的主人。不要不願意被土地踐踏。所以後面才會有原住民的基本法開始產生。"},{"start":4041.246,"end":4057.542,"text":"如果不是一個民主運動所上街頭之外請問一下有民主基本法嗎?沒有吧?所以這個就是我們回歸到我們圓明會你放手給圓明會來做完全中寫這個部分"},{"start":4058.035,"end":4071.746,"text":"而不是以而再再而生到現在用實驗學校,請問一下我們研究比賽用實驗的考驗嗎?還是到醫院裡面去做實驗開刀的一個方案?不對吧?"},{"start":4073.04,"end":4074.841,"text":"我跟委員報告,教育部不只權利"},{"start":4095.879,"end":4112.619,"text":"﹚"},{"start":4114.201,"end":4131.802,"text":"質問臺中盧市長在一中等等的這些問題教育部其實是在教育的這個行政體系上能夠跟地方做協助全力支持原住民主教育的推動所以我想委員這部分我們兩個部會會全力合作我請問有沒有必要見解原住民的完全中選"},{"start":4135.303,"end":4156.252,"text":"如果說在一個區域裡面他已經正式的行程,因為我自己過去在臺北縣服務曾經也有一位我們原住民組的,原住民籍的議員,宋議員這個我也說不定也了解,他當時也要積極的爭取,其實是縣府的態度是支持,但是一旦在行程過程當中發現意見是相當分歧,"},{"start":4156.832,"end":4182.086,"text":"所以如果說委員這邊有一個區域啊認為大家共識很高我想在整個政府的政策支持法規上他不是大問題好我現在有一個分享一個概念觀念好了過去裡面很多人反對建蓋社會住宅因為有關於他的土地的公告價值公告限制會影響到他周邊的產業周邊的經濟的發展"},{"start":4184.653,"end":4212,"text":"然後呢所以很多人反對不要在我的鄰近裡面這個土地的真實建蓋的社會住宅結果到現在呢為什麼沒有影響這一些他地方的土地的產業的真實而反而美化了這個這個社區的一些住宅這就是我們要講的原住民的社會住宅"},{"start":4213.594,"end":4216.047,"text":"應該要建改,獨立的建改"},{"start":4218.211,"end":4244.551,"text":"社會主宰原因就是讓16組的人在裡面能夠按照人數多寡來抽籤然後讓他們居住在這個地方因為我們原住民有在一個部落裡面有一個叫什麼部落的概念就是聚集的一個生活型態聚集的生活型態你應該要用這個思維來見解部長我們內政部長在這裡"},{"start":4248.208,"end":4263.156,"text":"建蓋原住民的專屬社會住宅為什麼現在很多過去裡面要建蓋的這些社會住宅影響他們的土地的增值所以很多人反對到最後呢"},{"start":4264.036,"end":4285.715,"text":"很多人喜歡而且到現在都還要缺希望趕快滿足在各縣市能夠需要社會住宅因為現在的土地增值包含房地產的增值造成人民買不起包含年輕人都買不起所以有沒有必要建蓋原住民的社會住宅"},{"start":4287.108,"end":4306.183,"text":"好,謝謝委員的垂詢。兩個部分。第一個,社會住宅並不是過去的國民住宅。這第一點要跟你報告。那第二個,我們目前政府推動專屬的原住民的社宅目前已經有三處。第一個是在台中的沙鹿,另外是新北市的樹林。"},{"start":4306.783,"end":4308.043,"text":"部長今天很高興你能夠"},{"start":4325.809,"end":4351.436,"text":"雖然我第一次在這個地方來發言但是我聽到你這句話我對跟國人謝謝你我們的主任謝謝你沙鹿平等段這就是我極力在我們盧市長的任內裡面我在議員的時候我就特別提出有兩處第一個就是沙鹿的平等段第二個就是霧峰的錦州段"},{"start":4352.636,"end":4379.658,"text":"建蓋原住民的社會專屬社會住宅原因在哪裡希望我們把一些部落的概念的生活型態能夠移到都會區的城市然後聚集在這個地方互相的來尊重文化因為如果今天原住民配給在漢人的社會住宅裡面配給到5%還是6%但是第一個要件就是殘障優先"},{"start":4381.259,"end":4381.499,"text":"韓國瑜委員"},{"start":4400.492,"end":4422.732,"text":"因為他不了解我們的文化。如果在原住民的專屬社會住宅裡面建蓋16組的原住民在那個地方,請問誰會有批判?誰會去啟示?沒有。因為我們原住民喜歡唱個歌,樂觀,天性樂觀,善良。"},{"start":4423.459,"end":4452.631,"text":"但是你要給他一個這樣的一個環境既然現在我們原住民從部落裡面移到都會區將近百分之五十五的人口了將近百分之五十五的人口都在都會區那你要給他這樣的一個原住民的專屬社會住宅啊剛剛我聽到部長講希望盡快的趕快落實尤其沙鹿那一段非常好因為他對面就是靜怡大學你有什麼意見"},{"start":4454.398,"end":4475.022,"text":"我想只要這個地方或者是包括原民會提出來的這個專案計畫,我想我們都會以本來的相關的一個機制來給予協助。好,那主委還有部長還有交易局長,那回座。那我請教一下交通部。"},{"start":4492.079,"end":4521.198,"text":"院長還有部長我們臺東花東快速道路本來已經提出在前任或現任的立法委員都提出關心關心臺東花蓮的道路希望能夠有家可以回道路回到安全的家"},{"start":4522.728,"end":4539.606,"text":"可是屢屢的到現在你們顏色不同還是政黨不同然後你們的意見一樓框的表達讓我們台東人不知道對政府有信心與否那花東快"},{"start":4541.001,"end":4563.011,"text":"本來就應該趕快快速的當然今天有在台東要做一個討論會明天還有一個討論會希望這個討論會回來跟你報告的是希望趕快趕快通行因為我們台東等不了了台東花蓮的光光確實匱乏"},{"start":4567.383,"end":4567.804,"text":"臨時提案委員"},{"start":4596.88,"end":4624.581,"text":"或者是在臺東花蓮對你們執政黨而帶來了信心來請回答我跟委員說這個花東快速公路也好或者花東鐵路電氣化也好實際上我們都在進行當中但是任何的工程一定會有可行性評估還有細部規劃等等那這詳細的情形我請我們部長簡單的說明一下是我跟委員報告您關心臺東我就就臺東來談花東鐵路電氣化第一段的現在施工就是臺東段"},{"start":4625.822,"end":4649.441,"text":"他在這個116年整個花東鐵路的應該是雙軌啦雙軌啦電氣的話已經有了現在是雙軌化現在講的是花東快速道路8月會提出可行性現在正在台東做這個公聽會辦三場公聽會現在進行公聽會完會把意見收集完就納到我們8月份的可行性報告裡面"},{"start":4651.141,"end":4672.58,"text":"那你們公聽會之後勒?收斂以後就是8月份有一個報告叫花東快速公路的可行性報告就提出來開始做審查所以你說如果可行性報告來講包含他的結論等等還要再10年才完工對不對?"},{"start":4673.592,"end":4673.632,"text":"好,儘快"},{"start":4696.912,"end":4717.33,"text":"盡快能夠可行性的報告出來。當然我今天特別要強調的是花東快速道路本來就趕快動工因為會造福我們臺東花林鄉親有家可以回另外我們鐵路的雙軌化的進度如何"},{"start":4718.854,"end":4743.781,"text":"鐵路雙軌化現在在施工中第一個標就是台東車站那個標那個委員看到現在在施工中全部會在那個116年會完工那當然現在有一段是在花蓮牽涉到七個評價到要不要立體化會照修改但是在台東不斷不會變台東不斷就是116年會完工按照我們的行程"},{"start":4745.168,"end":4748.93,"text":"因為雙軌化對整個鐵路的樞紐對我們台東花蓮是真的很大的幫助因為你也訪觀一下看一下我們台東台東目前來講沒有觀光客"},{"start":4770.694,"end":4798.138,"text":"沒有任何你說我們要推展我們的農業我們還要限制於兩岸之間的政策所以我們台東的農人非常的辛苦但是在經營這些餐飲業的部分或是旅館的部分也匱乏原因就是因為我們的交通沒有辦法一日上千所以今天拜託院長如果你對花東、花蓮"},{"start":4799.205,"end":4804.971,"text":"蕭美琴副總統在當時在花嶺的時候特別提出花東塊。謝謝黃委員的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。"},{"start":4837.864,"end":4863.814,"text":"接下來我們請登記第34位林委員郡縣質詢。好,謝主席。本席邀請我們行政院陳院長。麻煩請陳院長備詢。交通部王部長。交通部王部長備詢。我們內政部林部長。請內政部林部長備詢。林委員長。恭喜林委員長。院長。那個我們的本週啊"},{"start":4868.404,"end":4893.744,"text":"大概行政院就會開始在院會的時候著手檢討、修訂、交通、檢舉人還有祭典制度,是不是這樣子?那國會開議的第一個月就做交通法規的規定的修改幾乎就是列為我們的優先法案那請問院長為什麼要修改啊?院長是不是認為啊"},{"start":4894.676,"end":4911.349,"text":"交通檢舉人誌還有祭典誌已經造成了很大的民怨對,現在的這個交通祭典誌確實有一些需要修改的地方我們也聽到很多民間的聲音特別是這個職業價值人他們所反映出來的"},{"start":4912.469,"end":4938.69,"text":"另外也是在一個制度上我們輕罪就是說比較輕的這個滑反其實也不需要有祭典另外就是科技執法或者是民眾檢舉的這個部分我們通常都比較容易看到車號可是應該是罰車而不罰人因為不曉得駕駛人是誰所以在這裡面有很多不管是實施的要點也好"},{"start":4945.351,"end":4966.335,"text":"你剛講的就是會產生所謂的祭典黃牛就人頭找人頭出來讓你祭典但是我們交通亂象的問題還是要解決基本上應該是要採取一個平衡政府要盡量做到一個平衡既然保護行人也要保護"},{"start":4967.671,"end":4971.013,"text":"政府對一些危險路口、標線號誌是不是有做好了?是不是有改善?這是政府應該要做的"},{"start":4996.055,"end":5005.541,"text":"第三點才是enforcementment才是執法那現在等於政府直接前兩點沒有做好就跳到第三點來進行執法"},{"start":5007.577,"end":5009.478,"text":"啟動交通違規最主要部分就是超速還有維停"},{"start":5038.346,"end":5057.965,"text":"對不能夠危害行政這兩個大概佔了50%那其中危停部分就是一些所謂職業駕駛或者交通用路人最常抱怨的也就是說確實現時你不得不考量會有必須要臨時停這個狀況所以交通部也注意到這一點"},{"start":5058.902,"end":5086.932,"text":"在去年阿王部長曾經跟各縣市阿以及一些的會用路的像職業駕駛工會啦像計程車啦或者是貨運業來的工會來開會啦做出一個結論啦就希望地方政府阿大概在10%啦但每100到150公尺你要劃10公尺叫10%啦劃為黃線或者是林庭的一種格位專用格位出來嘛"},{"start":5089.074,"end":5089.094,"text":"國務卿"},{"start":5119.954,"end":5146.883,"text":"其中﹖當然各工會﹖他有提出說他的需求﹖像計程車還有貨運業﹖他們在六度﹖我們以六度來看﹖他們希望一方政府能夠增加給他們的﹖能夠卸貨專用的一些﹖的那種專用格位﹖還沒事﹖各工會建立179格﹖還不是政府只畫了兩個﹖只准兩個﹖"},{"start":5148.595,"end":5154.338,"text":"臺中市、臺南市、高雄市各位有看到齁?反而臺南最多啦。20個給了17個。那另外啦,所謂的增加10%的黃線"},{"start":5175.011,"end":5204.519,"text":"你了解很多縣市政府根本對於自己轄區內有多少黃線跟那個紅線的比例都還沒有掌握清楚根本不用說開放所以這個部分就是政府該做的事項你沒有做好那你現在去執法的話當然就會造成一些民怨如果你政府把號誌標限危險入口我該做的我做好了我老闆強力要求你"},{"start":5207.515,"end":5232.123,"text":"這樣數據上會比較合理是不是這樣?確實啦這個是交通工程的這個部分我想需要我們相關的法律規範然後來大力推廣要不的話這樣太低的話也是強人手難我再舉個例子第一個我們剛提到有教育這裡有兩張照片第一張是白色的車子院長我看到這台白色的車子"},{"start":5233.527,"end":5240.21,"text":"他停在一個小貨車就是專用的格位啦他這樣可以嗎?"},{"start":5240.21,"end":5256.398,"text":"不行 不可如果私人車是不行啦那這台車可以喔這台車是一個非常大的品牌的國產車啦這台車也非常暢銷啦那這台車啊他在出廠的時候啊他跟交通部申請他是客貨兩用車實際上啦很多人是用來當自家的轎車啦"},{"start":5263.032,"end":5291.11,"text":"可是因為他出場申請客戶兩用車他可以停在卸貨專用格位這個就是我們的駕駛人教育太成功了讓汽車所有人太聰明了他鑽這個法律漏洞這不對啦再來一個這個黃色的這個照片是一台計程車嘛他停的這條路啊是台北市中校東路啦台北市中校東路是貫穿東西啊是最重要的一條"},{"start":5292.153,"end":5314.293,"text":"商業區密集的道路幾乎整條宗教東路非常繁華的商業區但宗教東路整條都紅線消費者一定會來客人會下車既然是商業區整條都是百貨公司都是商店他一定會有卸貨的需求但宗教東路整條都畫紅線"},{"start":5316.496,"end":5340.954,"text":"那等於阿你該做的交通的工程沒有做好你等於逼民眾阿他不得不冒險去違規停車啦這個就是所謂的engineering很重要啦Education也很重要最後你才要做enforcement執法的執行強力執法的一個要求問題好那我們現在啦強力執法那交通有沒有改善我們來看一下齁像昨天的"},{"start":5347.501,"end":5375.035,"text":"臺中市我們臺中市做例子臺中市現在是非常成長快速的一個都會臺中市在去年的交通罰單臺中市開了268萬這個表我沒有做出來沒有關係比前年比2022年臺中市去年多開了25萬張罰單但是啦臺中市的交通事故"},{"start":5377.177,"end":5402.668,"text":"卻增加了而且增加非常多他的死亡人數也增加他受傷人數甚至有5萬9千人增加到9萬6千人增加了快六成也就是說強力執法多開了那麼多的罰單而且造成的交通事故發生數反而大幅增加"},{"start":5403.57,"end":5431.841,"text":"沒有辦法改善交通,造成的死傷人數也增加,臺中都是全國第一。也就是說那你嚴刑峻罰之下實際上沒有辦法達到我們希望他達成的保護行人或者保護用路人、保護駕駛。甚至於這種民眾交通的檢舉違規建樹增加也非常可怕。"},{"start":5433.909,"end":5460,"text":"剛剛行政院長我們陳院長說趙總很大的民怨嘛那我請教幾位這種交通的檢舉人制度還有祭典制度是不是民進黨時候才設立的這個很久了很久沒有八十幾年就很久了但民怨都在我們身上了交通檢舉人制度在1996年都有了檢舉人制度已經存在27年了祭典制度"},{"start":5461.564,"end":5487.987,"text":"在1986年民國75年就有了到現在有37年也就是說檢舉人之端祭典之數存在了二三十年那為什麼以前不會有民怨現在造成很大的民怨部長你覺得王部長我覺得第一個當然是檢舉項目的增加所以變成包括你剛才提到像違規違挺的部分是一個大宗違挺是一個大宗"},{"start":5489.171,"end":5508.892,"text":"那我跟委員稍微報告一下,剛才臺中雖然是表現差,但是在去年各縣市齁,各縣市整體是...你先回答我這個問題啦。是。第一個齁,檢舉人制度和計人制度啊,在過去啦,我用一個建設給大家看啦,其中還有一個因素啦,是因為現代科技的進步啦。"},{"start":5509.9,"end":5537.071,"text":"幾乎每個人都有手機每一台車子都有行車紀錄器甚至機車安全帽它前面也有一個照相機車後面也有一個攝影的可是現在科技的工具每個人都可以隨時攝影也造成檢舉件數它以前是自然增加我看了一下民進黨執政以來20105年以來原本大概都是微幅自然增加但是到了"},{"start":5538.362,"end":5565.296,"text":"去年卻大幅增加了由前年的583萬件到去年變869萬件增加了40幾%一年之內主要就是因為我們在去年大幅度放寬檢舉的項目因為去年國外媒體有個報導說台灣是行人地獄交通部就嚇死了這輿論壓力很大凱西放寬了"},{"start":5568.106,"end":5582.631,"text":"放寬檢舉項目以來,從去年7月1日開始實施,去年下半年比前年增加500萬件。去年7月1日一放寬檢舉件數,去年下半年就造成了500萬件。這當中,"},{"start":5588.874,"end":5613.499,"text":"除了用路人,就是說你違規當然被處罰啦,但是呢,相對的政府要執行這樣的一個法律啊,也耗費很大人力啦。我們內政部,你部長還在這裡啊。這麼大量的交通罰官借助啊,請問你有沒有造成我們遠景的一個執行的一個負擔啊?是,當然對我們基層遠景其實負擔很大。"},{"start":5615.39,"end":5643.305,"text":"根據那個報道啦,就是說警方現在投入在處理交通罰單的大概是以前的1.5倍啦。也就是說警力啊,要大量投入在這裡面。它這其中啊,檢舉件數其實是更多啦,它裡面有40%是無效,大概60%有效。但這些你要確認嘛,然後還要再郵寄啊。你說各地警察局啊,光預備金都拿來寄這些罰單都不夠用。"},{"start":5644.953,"end":5654.458,"text":"會有造成這樣的一個狀況嗎?那同時對於職業駕駛的因為記點被調扣駕照啊這點在選前是不是就有暫停?現在目前是不是暫停?"},{"start":5658.8,"end":5683.61,"text":"因為它這個維庭的部分是一個大宗我們先前應該說去年有把比如說在路口10公尺公車這個10公尺的部分把他佔好記點部分先把他佔好記點部分大概在所有的維修建築裡面就這個維庭它大概只佔23%這是交通部資金算的也就是說你在未來在盤點"},{"start":5685.185,"end":5711.053,"text":"你的所謂的違規祭典的項目範圍,細部是什麼?部長現在就是一千兩百元以下。事實上這個部分我們一般叫比較違違規啦。違違規事實上在處罰條例也有法言,所以說輕違規不罰這一個部分。所以我們現在就是輕違規不祭典也不開放民眾檢舉,大概用這種方式來進行。"},{"start":5713.083,"end":5714.851,"text":"但是你所謂的輕微會期的大部分還是微點"},{"start":5716.229,"end":5745.23,"text":"但是它違規划款還是划?只是說不開到民眾間?我認為政府要趕快追上來的是政府該做的事項就你各些交通一些交通工程的改善包括號誌標線像那個車道很多地方政府化了像最近我們在甚至提出人行道的改善內政部也提出一個人行道的一個專責一個法案出來但是人行道到底什麼叫人行道你們兩個部位其實是有很大的不同"},{"start":5746.138,"end":5769.094,"text":"因為像標線人行道,很多地方政府現在都畫標線人行道,它不是實體人行道,它標線人行道是交通部管的,內政部管的是實體的人行道,你看地方政府很多都畫這種標線人行道,甚至它標線人行道旁邊就畫了密密麻麻的機車格,那機車停的位置就會佔用到標線人行道,部長有沒有看到,這就是一個亂象啊。"},{"start":5783.146,"end":5807.643,"text":"謝謝林委員軍縣的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第35號秋委員若華質詢。主席好。有請行政院院長。麻煩再請陳院長備詢。謝謝。"},{"start":5813.106,"end":5840.46,"text":"求委員早安,恭喜你當選立委。委員長好,謝謝。委員長本席是桃園的立委,那桃園的交通問題已經成為當務之急了的問題。那桃園的捷運、鐵路地下化等軌道建設,還有高速公路延伸、交流道新闢的重大建設才剛起步。那本席選區桃園八德為例,那人口快速發展、人口迅速成長,可是交通建設"},{"start":5841.766,"end":5868.048,"text":"不能有長遠的規劃,造成來不及因應。當地的居民還有經過的駕駛人,還有新移入的居民,很多都還是在新北市、臺北市工作。那基於交通建設來減省通勤時間,減少他們在駕駛的時候要飽受的塞車之苦還有勞碌,就是因為交通非常悠閒,他們時常要繞道。那影響了他們的工作效率還有他們下班後的生活。"},{"start":5868.626,"end":5890.401,"text":"﹗"},{"start":5890.779,"end":5915.988,"text":"客運司機也鬧人力荒,塞車讓他們的工作時間更長,而且影響到服務班次,這不是讓客運缺工的衝擊加大嗎?本席選區都有一些大建設,比如說捷運綠線延伸大溪,桃園市政府已經將研究報告送至交通部審查,目前卡在可行性評估,一點站點的位置還需要討論,而"},{"start":5918.167,"end":5934.739,"text":"捷運綠線延伸大溪是改善大溪交通還有促進地方發展還有觀光的重大建設請問院長有關捷運綠線延伸大溪計畫需要請中央加速審查還有核定目前的進度如何"},{"start":5935.282,"end":5952.722,"text":"﹗"},{"start":5952.942,"end":5954.023,"text":"目前已經審過一次"},{"start":5980.933,"end":5982.314,"text":"每期當選前和當選後"},{"start":6006.13,"end":6032.437,"text":"就是選前和選後關心的我們的捷運三一線延伸至巴德段一岸在上週五3月1號的時候交通部也審查通過了綜合規劃報告那再次要感謝交通部那後續這有助於我們桃園、巴德、英哥還有三峽形成一個共同的生活便利圈那後續將進入行政院審議的階段本席在這裡向行政院爭取"},{"start":6032.947,"end":6058.846,"text":"要盡快核定新建。畢竟核定後還需要9年才能夠完工。這是連接北桃園都會捷運入網的關鍵路線。非常關鍵。那要請問院長昨天政府院長是查捷運中線的時候有提到對他在桃園市長任內推動的三星六線計畫最後一條三陰延伸到八的"},{"start":6059.656,"end":6087.157,"text":"也即將要核定。那想請問院長何時預計核定的時程。我再跟委員報告一下。剛才講的這一個綜合規劃案也好或者是可行性研究這樣的報告案來了以後我們都到行政院來我們會送給國發會。國發會請專家學者來審查。審查以後呢他可能會有一些意見那需要地方政府再提供更多意見的時候會請地方政府再來做回覆就是剛才我們部長講的"},{"start":6088.24,"end":6097.331,"text":"那這個何時可以核定呢?我們也就是剛才我在強調的就是說中央跟地方一起趕快把這個相關該回答的問題、該解決的問題都"},{"start":6099.352,"end":6120.639,"text":"了解了以後我們就可以來加定那目前我還沒有辦法回答你合定的時間啊因為我們會加速來辦那這個因為中央跟地方一定要兩邊互相配合你看看那個我們也看到台中的捷運那個我們會發現如果兩邊來回的"},{"start":6124.48,"end":6145.486,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":6145.731,"end":6161.157,"text":"建設的急迫性一定會造成上次間的交通噩夢那以板樓快速道路為例那這條台六將台六十五線快速道路至土層端延伸至三峽英哥與桃園的龍潭可以紓解國道3號尖峰時段塞車的問題是是產業發展還有許多"},{"start":6167.323,"end":6181.831,"text":"臺灣民眾的需要那在去年的11月17號行政院院會上桃園市的副市長蘇俊斌副市長有向行政院我們的院長來請命要積極的核定桃園正在積極爭取的這項"},{"start":6183.362,"end":6186.605,"text":"請問院長何時可以完成委託研究發包?"},{"start":6200.817,"end":6226.803,"text":"請部長來回答一下目前因為這個是放在這個桃竹苗大細股計畫裡面兩項很重要的計畫那目前我們是在上網中在應該在板農的話是在4月底會完成可行性的花包那新美容的新美容部分會在7月底會把它花包所以這兩個就會這個進行可行性那這兩本的可行性我們預計在115年完成115年完成"},{"start":6230.004,"end":6252.558,"text":"所以您說,部長您說,板榮是4月底?4月底會結標,那另外一個7月底會結標。那結標以後他就用一年多的時間來辦可行性。那大概115年會完成。115年?對,完成可行性。可行性評估。對,因為他是剛開始啦,剛開始。OK,好。"},{"start":6253.97,"end":6274.355,"text":"已經通過環評對於紓解大型優勢問題有莫大注意的國三增設巴德交流道需要有確切的動工時間讓塞車的惡夢有解。院長您在去年的12月25日也曾經視察過就是國三增設巴德交流道時有宣示行政院推動的決心"},{"start":6274.995,"end":6277.297,"text":"我們在12月19日的時候已經合訂了這個建設計畫了。那我們當然現在開始呢"},{"start":6295.947,"end":6312.568,"text":"議員"},{"start":6313.69,"end":6340.924,"text":"這一個部分我們交通部很積極在努力我也請部長簡單的說一下現在進度的情況去年已經核定現在開始做細設我們是希望是在如果可以的話在明年發包119年完工目前是這樣但是它裡面牽涉到一個聯絡道就是臺市豐德路到大英路的這個聯絡道這是地方政要做的這個聯絡不做的話那個交流道是沒辦法接"},{"start":6341.904,"end":6360.012,"text":"市政府那邊也有同意說配合我們時程他來花包這個聯絡道所以必須兩個一起配合才有辦法把它完成是配合中央的時程嗎對就是我們交流道坐在這裡他有一個聯絡道這是地方要坐的聯絡道路因為你沒有聯絡道他交流道下來沒辦法走到這個兩邊對台式這個邊"},{"start":6363.575,"end":6379.36,"text":"﹚"},{"start":6379.949,"end":6393.99,"text":"那就是 院長你有提到地方跟中央嘛那地方建設是不分黨派的那我和我們桃園其他的委員也會和桃園市政府和中央一起來共同配合來改善我們地方的交通那"},{"start":6394.622,"end":6413.931,"text":"也希望我們中央和地方的交通的配合上面還有溝通合作上面可以更加強那產業和廠商的進駐往往會讓交通擁擠一些嘛如果不加快進行以上的交通建設的話那只怕交通黑暗期會更久那院長您最近也常被問到"},{"start":6415.764,"end":6433.209,"text":"內閣520後將改組目前的內閣被稱為看守內閣但仍然是民進黨執政與政黨輪替不同那交通建設是長遠的計畫本席在這裡也請陳院長520之前可以來到本席的選區來視察交通還有長照及醫療的狀況"},{"start":6434.729,"end":6452.181,"text":"我會積極來瞭解地方的需要我們會積極來推動那我也再跟委員報告就是說因為現在六都的首長呢都是列席我們行政院的院會所以他們在每一次的院會他們也可以提出來一些建議"},{"start":6453.547,"end":6481.435,"text":"我們桃園市的市長比較少來但是副市長來的時候他都會提供還蠻多寶貴的意見所以如果有這樣的很好的溝通我們當然就很容易把事情聯繫得更好做得更好那我們繼續看桃園市同樣是我們桃園市的人口去年6月已經達230萬人"},{"start":6483.254,"end":6504.635,"text":"同樣面臨人口結構老化加上醫療配置不均的情形影響到民眾就醫近幾年來要求若是醫療照顧的聲音不斷卻受限於醫療區域規劃不均桃園是六都中唯一尚未設置市立醫院的直轄市"},{"start":6505.956,"end":6534.295,"text":"以桃園巴德人口為例,去年區內的人口預計有21.3萬人,帶來地方發展但同時也呈現了醫療資源不足的問題。桃園市的巴德、大溪、復興、盧竹、觀音等六區都沒有大溪醫院,如果民眾碰上疾病只能南北奔走。以巴德來說目前快速移入的人口"},{"start":6535.689,"end":6539.324,"text":"醫療資源更要有長遠的計畫。臨近的大溪區是文化觀光"},{"start":6540.23,"end":6540.25,"text":"委員﹚"},{"start":6566.323,"end":6571.528,"text":"我們衛福部要如何進促來做出改善並評估重新調整桃園的醫療區域劃分為三個"},{"start":6575.583,"end":6594.507,"text":"三個次醫療區域的可惜性目前是兩個啦如果要分成三個的話這個衛福部有一些考量我請衛福部說明一下跟委員報告那次區域如果要重劃的話那必須要由這個市政府這邊來提出他們的規劃然後經過部裡面的醫審會來做審查"},{"start":6599.848,"end":6614.819,"text":"之後才會採取一個定案以目前的話是兩個次區域兩個次區域在北桃園這邊也就是桃園次區域的話其實每萬人50床的這樣的上限已經快要達到了"},{"start":6615.379,"end":6642.088,"text":"但是有兩家醫院已經通過了還沒有蓋好一個是清大的桃園輻射醫院另外一個是長榮的桃園醫院這兩家已經通過了還沒有蓋出來所以如果說以大溪巴德這一個部分的話其實離桃園市就是說桃園區也蠻近的"},{"start":6644.437,"end":6663.017,"text":"不一定需要往北去跨到新北市那邊去就醫當然如果說桃園市想要成立私立醫院的系統的話那這個可以來把他們的計畫擬好之後可以來跟衛福部這邊來做討論"},{"start":6664.557,"end":6679.297,"text":"部長您先前有收到桃園市政府向您提出的這項重新化目前沒有目前沒有收到就是這個initiation就是說開始要推動三個次醫療區是地方政府要提出需求"},{"start":6680.217,"end":6707.411,"text":"提出規劃然後我們衛福部這邊有一個醫生會他會來做審查那審查以後才通過但是這個可能需要一點時間但是如果說是以現在兩個次醫療區來看的話那桃園次醫療區這一個部分剛才部長講的那兩個醫院如果蓋完的話那那個病床數是夠的但是在這樣的一個情況未來如果要設立"},{"start":6708.852,"end":6732.632,"text":"市立醫院這樣的一個結構的話呢那很可能桃園市政府要有一些自行的規劃我舉一個例子像新北市也好或者是台北市也好都有他們的所謂的市立醫院的規劃嘛還有高雄市也有所以如果桃園市要來進行這樣的情形的話那他可能也需要有一個規劃案"},{"start":6733.908,"end":6735.229,"text":"長榮醫院的部分應該是150床的急性病床"},{"start":6755.509,"end":6763.632,"text":"那清大的桃園輻射醫院的話是200床的一般級院病床加上30床的精神病床"},{"start":6764.281,"end":6785.338,"text":"那因為我們桃園巴德大溪復興人口數超過35萬人那這100多床總共加起來是300多床就足夠能夠我是比較建議是這樣子市政府這邊做一個全盤規劃假設說他要設市立醫院那市立醫院要怎麼樣分布"},{"start":6785.958,"end":6802.192,"text":"因為他要的不是一家勢力醫院,好像是要的是一個勢力醫院的系統。那到底這個系統要包括幾家的醫院,怎麼樣去分布?因為目前看起來是南桃園,也就是說中壢次區是病床數是比較不足的。"},{"start":6802.572,"end":6830.454,"text":"那委員的選區剛好是在北桃園巴德這一邊所以要怎麼樣去分布這一個跟這一個次區域的劃分的話可能就同時來考量要不然你設計你規劃了一個這邊要蓋家醫院但是這邊的擴大已經沒有了那就大家會變成很麻煩是那部長您提到就是市政府要提出計畫那中央這邊要如何協助地方政府呢我跟委員組一個很簡單的例子譬如說"},{"start":6831.223,"end":6832.384,"text":"﹖三、4月5日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間﹖"},{"start":6845.868,"end":6868.495,"text":"那這些的情況就是桃園市政府自己要先想好說北桃園南桃園或者在什麼地方怎麼樣的設立醫院最能夠方便所有的桃園市民然後呢他也土地也整整出來了以後呢那可能可以公開徵求那大家來來做那很多的像新北市還有汪芳醫院還有這一個"},{"start":6872.137,"end":6895.617,"text":"臺北市有萬華醫院新北市有雙和醫院都是當時是這個中央雙和是中央規劃然後地方這一個這不同的醫療體系來爭取是桃園市政府需要有一個通訪規劃那通訪規劃的過程如果需要我們衛福部按照以往的經驗來給他"},{"start":6897.158,"end":6900.26,"text":"政府院長在桃園市長任內對大溪還有復興的醫療有表示過評估在大溪"},{"start":6923.581,"end":6939.647,"text":"身設醫療專區的可能性,預計以衛福部桃園醫院、大溪分醫院或是兒童醫院的方向去做規劃。請問院長和學部長的看法。這就需要整體規劃了。因為目前如果是以桃園市區只有剩下164床。"},{"start":6942.643,"end":6967.55,"text":"所以如果要重劃這個次區域的話那就要跟你準備要規劃的這一個醫療網絡要增建要興建的這些醫院一併考量OK好那接下來我們進入另外一個主題2025年台灣將邁入超高齡社會全台灣正面臨老年人口比例"},{"start":6968.186,"end":6995.584,"text":"不斷攀升的挑戰那去年已經超過17%的老年人口比例未來數年還會持續增加那營造安心的社區照顧環境還有結合各項醫療支援落實在地老化的政策刻不容緩所以保障照護員行之不止可以充實長照能力且讓有經驗有技能的人力繼續服務增加人員的穩定度那長照是國家必須高度重視的不然臺灣社會的三民自主世代"},{"start":6996.601,"end":7000.629,"text":"面對現實的壓力只會繼續升高。那去年9月這10年來"},{"start":7003.032,"end":7026.301,"text":"照顧悲劇不斷,累計近百件的殺人照顧事件。去年就有家庭照顧者關懷總會觀察臺灣悲劇事件有升溫的情形。政府一直講說要解決少子化的問題,鼓勵國人生育。常常能用新規劃以及執行,是否可以對解決少子化其實是有助益的,這是可以思考的。"},{"start":7027.282,"end":7037.118,"text":"請問院長如何讓社會大眾對於長照事業這種專業並且支持讓更多有志業有心的人投入長照領域呢?實際上政府在"},{"start":7040.748,"end":7056.856,"text":"二零一六年開始我們就開始推動這個長照2.0的這個計畫那不僅是服務的這一個處所增加我們分成ABC級有增加以外這個服務的人力也增加然後照護員的薪資也增加"},{"start":7057.967,"end":7078.875,"text":"您剛才提到的這種不同類型的照顧機構比如說日間照顧機構或者是機構照顧機構我們也都是在大量的增加所以長照在這一段期間我們的經費從50億左右增加到800億人數當然增加的更可觀"},{"start":7080.12,"end":7107.948,"text":"在這方面我們是繼續努力而且也得到民眾的很多的認同那也要謝謝地方政府也一直很努力的跟我們一起來配合來做好這個長照的工作所以這一個長照的情況確實是在我們少子女化的這個情況下我們所面臨的一個挑戰那我們也很高興有一些進步那衛福部在長照這個部分也一直積極的在進行"},{"start":7109.67,"end":7125.16,"text":"那您剛才講到就是說有少數的這一些不幸的事件發生我們盡量來避免它的發生但是這個就是怎麼樣讓這一些照顧這個老人家的這個家庭"},{"start":7125.762,"end":7125.782,"text":"關請勞動部"},{"start":7155.009,"end":7156.19,"text":"有不少家庭因為照顧生命的家人離職成為全國"},{"start":7173.872,"end":7173.892,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":7191.601,"end":7216.548,"text":"那在職照顧者一邊照顧家人長期下來對他們的精神還有體力還有經濟也負荷也相當的沉重那也面臨到要辭職還是要繼續工作的兩難那院長對於越來越快高齡化速度政府有什麼積極的作為可以達到照顧不離職的目標有沒有檢視現在對照顧者離職的對策效果如何"},{"start":7217.887,"end":7240.601,"text":"這一個對於在職的照顧者當然他相當的辛苦所以我們在這裡有各式各樣的長照的情況比如說有日照中心也有經過式的照顧中心另外有一些家庭如果他能力上可以的話他也可以請家庭照顧來家裡來照顧這些"},{"start":7243.41,"end":7244.491,"text":"﹚二、3月5日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。﹚"},{"start":7272.284,"end":7273.305,"text":"委員長請問請問是取消80歲以上"},{"start":7290.444,"end":7292.806,"text":"可是通常就是很多民眾就是面臨到就是非常難申請看護到他們"},{"start":7316.724,"end":7317.886,"text":"我們會朝80歲以上取消巴士量表嗎?"},{"start":7331.409,"end":7360.554,"text":"報告委員因為這個是這樣我是覺得那應該是兩個議題一個是私人的照顧一個是健康或雅健康長輩的陪伴跟照顧這是兩個議題那當然現在的話私人的照顧是家庭看護工但是如果是健康或雅健康有些比較長輩可能80歲以上他其實還健康清醒還很好他沒有辦法請八字量表但是他也需要有人來照顧他"},{"start":7361.509,"end":7377.686,"text":"拜訪他,那這個是屬於是不是家庭幫傭,未來是不是要做一些檢討的問題。我覺得這是兩件事情,我們可能要先把他的狀況釐清,那就現有的制度來檢討,看能不能對於長輩的照顧"},{"start":7380.388,"end":7403.103,"text":"我們這邊談到的是長輩的照顧嘛那有沒有想到就應該要積極建立對照顧者更友善的職場環境那像他們遇到照顧家人必須得離開職場那這不是對缺工潮更嚴重嗎那有沒有積極輔導他們回到職場呢那找到合適的工作是在勞動部這一方面請教部長"},{"start":7405.064,"end":7423.037,"text":"對不起那個委員我們就是希望這個我們的勞動者能夠不要因為照顧而離職所以這部分我們當然就是說不管是國內的長照政策或者移工政策那另外我們也希望企業在這個跟員工之間"},{"start":7423.942,"end":7449.085,"text":"那麼對於他的家庭或家庭跟工作能夠兼顧有更友善的一些做法,比如說透過團體﹖有時候是迫於無奈嘛,那像在職場我們有兩性平權,然後還有對中高齡我們就是也有提供他們更友善的環境,那對於這一些因為照顧而離職的人呢?我們是否該為他們多著想一點?"},{"start":7450.733,"end":7463.823,"text":"呃,多,對不起委員。就是建立一個更友善的職場環境。是是是。並且輔導他們回到職場。對對,這個部分我們其實目前針對,比如說因為他照顧離職,那這個部分我們現在有推動各項重返職場的這個"},{"start":7465.674,"end":7466.194,"text":"我會說到這個是因為有13.3萬人因為照顧而離職"},{"start":7483.864,"end":7498.83,"text":"這是多年前的推估應該是衛福部還是勞動部那台灣馬上就要邁入超高齡社會了這個離職數據在現在來看恐怕是相當驚人的很多人還在職場上面打拚打拚當遇到長輩生病的時候"},{"start":7499.23,"end":7522.365,"text":"他們不得不做出選擇究竟是要留在職場還是辭職所以我希望勞動部可以重視這個問題這個部分我們透過多項的計畫就讓這些照顧離職人能夠順利重返職場或者在他職場工作上比如說他用彈性工時或等等讓他能夠兼顧家庭跟職場這個都一直我們在做努力"},{"start":7522.765,"end":7546.242,"text":"也有一些計畫次第的在推出我再拿給委員來做參考。不好意思我這邊先打斷您我這邊要就是我們退府會所屬的龍總分院輻射護理之家以及遍佈全國的龍家是全國最大的長照服務體系那馮主委過去在接受原件雜誌專訪的時候有信心的說過最有照護經驗的是我們請問如何將這個經驗分享給其他的長照機構讓機構的"},{"start":7548.496,"end":7549.357,"text":"﹚三、4月5日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。﹚"},{"start":7571.749,"end":7599.94,"text":"﹚"},{"start":7600.745,"end":7618.064,"text":"我們退伍會一共有16個農家,等於是我們全國最大的長照機構。我們做兩樣事情。第一個,保持這些照護的人力不流失。"},{"start":7681.211,"end":7692.199,"text":"建議邱委員,對不起,能不能剩下改書面,好不好?謝謝馮主委,我們剩下就改書面了。再次謝謝院長的備詢。現在我們休息10分鐘,謝謝。"},{"start":8408.492,"end":8410.674,"text":"報告院會,現在我們繼續開會。接下來我們請登記第36號陳委員數月質詢。"},{"start":8443.729,"end":8444.692,"text":"請主席邀請陳院長麻煩請陳院長備詢"},{"start":8455.146,"end":8474.324,"text":"委員長早安我們看到最近幾年來就是這個詐騙的案件層出不窮然後這個詐騙犯也越來越長久那事實上這個造成基層的民眾非常的不安那對政府的這個執政也有頗有維持那我們也看到這個統計的數字從2018年一直到2023年這個詐騙的件數跟"},{"start":8479.292,"end":8496.34,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":8497.141,"end":8515.779,"text":"2022年成立打詐國家隊在去年也推出了這個打詐專責的辦公室並追加預算同時在這個修法上也針對了刑法、人口干預法、各自法等等這個打詐無法我們都有持續的不斷的在做可是我們看到這個統計數字"},{"start":8517.18,"end":8540.93,"text":"是持續在上升的然後對基層的民眾仍然無感對這個部分 院長你有什麼看法這一個部分謝謝委員的關心確實這個詐騙的手法是不斷的推陳出新然後世界各國都面臨到這個詐騙的情形越來越嚴重的情況那我們打詐辦公室成立以後實際上我們有攔阻了1851通的境外"},{"start":8546.049,"end":8548.835,"text":"進來的這些電話詐騙還有800多通的這個惡意的簡訊然後攔阻詐騙的案件有11300多件"},{"start":8554.81,"end":8554.83,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":8576.638,"end":8577.539,"text":"﹚二、3月1日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。﹚完整會議"},{"start":8607.133,"end":8635.316,"text":"處理能夠更得心應手。那這個部分我們會繼續來加強。謝謝院長。院長剛答覆的就是針對我們這幾年來對打詐的這個動作的一些成績嘛。那很需要強調就是說我們做了這麼多有這些成績可是為什麼人民仍然無感。因為我在基層遇到很多受害的民眾他們幾乎真的是傾家蕩產然後幾乎也想走絕路。所以我覺得說"},{"start":8635.896,"end":8658.439,"text":"國會議員"},{"start":8658.899,"end":8672.493,"text":"確定有69741人。在這些人當中,判處拘役的佔了21.6%,有期徒刑6個月以下的43%。一年以上至3年未滿者29.3%。"},{"start":8674.635,"end":8695.181,"text":"這些人當中你看6個月以下的可能就是一顆罰金就沒事了然後判處3年以上的只有佔了0.5%就是3年到5年這個刑期的只有0.5%所以民眾覺得說這個刑期太輕對於這個犯罪這個罪犯就是詐欺犯"},{"start":8695.401,"end":8714.155,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":8715.042,"end":8739.863,"text":"我想這個刑期判得太輕的這個部分我請法務部部長來回答然後追回這一個的部分這個款項追回來了以後怎麼樣來做這個我們會來加強各部會跟這個被害者能夠有更好的這個聯絡跟溝通那實際上在銀行的攔阻詐騙的這個部分這個臨櫃的這個部分我們做的算"},{"start":8742.165,"end":8743.666,"text":"最近法務部引以為傲的"},{"start":8758.576,"end":8760.397,"text":"﹚二、3月1日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。﹚"},{"start":8776.608,"end":8790.317,"text":"這個案件的層出不窮也造成基層警力疲於奔命幾乎要癱瘓了這個基層的這個警力所以這個部分我覺得我們都要好好去思考怎樣讓這個詐欺的這個犯罪能夠來減緩跟降低"},{"start":8793.722,"end":8811.381,"text":"跟委員補充說明一下就是法院的判決我們也感覺到確實是拼清但是我們會要求檢察官會監督這樣的判決如果過清的話要提起上訴另外在假釋的審核上那我們法務部矯正署也會從原來審核"},{"start":8813.162,"end":8833.5,"text":"那其他有關相關的法制如果說法定型還是不夠足以來遏止的話我們因為檢討再來提高那至於剛剛委員提到就是波蘭引渡回來的炸棄犯那這一件案子我們檢察官還在積極的偵辦中那引渡我們不能判斷說"},{"start":8834.121,"end":8835.622,"text":"雖然法院第一個時間他沒有同意要羈押,但是我們還是積極的在授證在偵辦當中。"},{"start":8852.708,"end":8879.184,"text":"我們知道要打詐防詐涉及的部會非常的多包括法務部NCC或者是數位部還有我們的警政署還有金管會等等都是息息相關的像去年我也協助一個朋友來處理他被詐騙的案子他是一個公司的一個平台他的一個網路購入平台結果被冒名"},{"start":8879.884,"end":8905.406,"text":"可是他這個案件一發生的時候他去報警我們的基層警員竟然是不受理的那後來我們協助之後受理了那我要感謝警政署後來透過警政署也很快的把這個冒名的網站給他下架了所以我覺得說這個打詐防詐就是要我們很多相關的部會都要一起積極的就是配合跟要動起來這樣子才能夠遏阻這個詐騙這個"},{"start":8908.203,"end":8908.423,"text":"主席"},{"start":8939.825,"end":8960.793,"text":"謝謝,我們知道這顆豬肉是重要的民生用品。近幾年來我們在政府的積極的作為之下,也讓我們在非洲豬瘟的防堵上有很好的具體的成效,包括口蹄疫的拔針,在去年就是確定拔針了。"},{"start":8961.733,"end":8973.838,"text":"那不過我們也覺得很遺憾的就是說在去年過年今年的過年前就發生了這個西伏特羅這個瘦肉精的這樣子的一個事件當然也會造成這個社會的一個不安那後來證實說這個是一個單一的一個個案那我們在2月23號那個院長的食安專報裡面有提到就是說針對這樣子的一個單一個案的污染"},{"start":8987.384,"end":8989.947,"text":"這一個部分我們在後天衛福部跟使安辦會跟我們提出一個最後的報告。"},{"start":9008.234,"end":9009.354,"text":"政府投入百億基金在養豬產業"},{"start":9033.981,"end":9041.78,"text":"來更新相關的一些設備設施所以這個成效也非常的好也受到朱龍很多的一個肯定"},{"start":9042.23,"end":9063.925,"text":"我想先請教部長就是針對這個部分你有實際去觀摩看看目前的績效如何嗎?這個百億基金?謝謝委員的一個說明我這邊跟委員報告就是說我們在110年到113年我們總共投入了128.3億的百億基金那非常重要的兩個工作就是一個養豬場端的養豬場的一個升級"},{"start":9066.847,"end":9076.314,"text":"另外一個部分是屠宰場的部分那這兩個部分如果說能夠處理好的話我想包括養豬場的這些豬廢水的排放都能夠不再是一個0幣的一個場域"},{"start":9078.605,"end":9107.825,"text":"第二部分是這四年來今年第四年的部分那特別是剛才您提到的彰化那彰化的部分我覺得非常棒的地方就是它的租場改建的部分大概達到516場那全國是2000多場它已經接近了四分之一那這樣的一個改善其實對於彰化地區的後續的這些污水的排放這些非污水的排放的改善一定有相當的注意那第三個部分就是"},{"start":9108.525,"end":9128.724,"text":"我想整個豬的產業的升級不只是這四年而已,後續我們也正在規劃的下個四年的部分我們怎麼樣持續讓我們的產業升級,怎麼樣讓我們的豬的一個生產效率的提高,這個部分我們會持續跟產業界溝通然後提出相關的方案。"},{"start":9130.51,"end":9155.14,"text":"白衣基金實施今年是第4年在這邊再次感謝我們就是農業部這邊截至目前為止就是合併給彰化縣有9.13億元的經費今年還有1.47億今年是合併了1.47億因為本席接觸到相關的養豬業者的反應就是說今年合併的經費"},{"start":9159.01,"end":9166.714,"text":"本席在這邊是希望說有沒有可能在這個合定的經費上再增加再調整的一個部分"},{"start":9167.239,"end":9189.197,"text":"我跟委員說明就是今年度的部分因為我們大部分的經費都已經在縣政府都有規劃了但是因為牽涉到有些是工程的部分那工程如果進度有快有慢的話那相對的我們有一些調度的空間那這個部分我想我們會持續跟彰化縣這邊來聯絡看看說的需求是怎麼樣然後我們做盡量的一個調度"},{"start":9191.105,"end":9212.327,"text":"部長回覆的意思就是說有空間就對了做調度這樣子我們也希望透過這樣子的投入讓我們整個養豬產業能夠提升然後讓我們這個品質能夠更好接下來我再請教一下彰化縣除了畜牧產業就是非常重要之外"},{"start":9213.247,"end":9231.645,"text":"另外一個農產品就是葡萄在我的選區就是這個葡萄是一個非常重要的一個農產品那葡萄的種植過程當中有一個很重要的步驟就是要吹芽這部長知道了那過去農民很習慣用的一個"},{"start":9232.445,"end":9233.106,"text":"二、三月1日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間"},{"start":9249.909,"end":9249.929,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":9279.609,"end":9296.848,"text":"另外一個就是藥品的成本價格比原來的高會造成他們的負擔等等這些因素的一個考量所以當然我們農改廠也非常積極在推廣輔導可是本席看起來是成果有效因為一般民眾都還是有一些抗拒"},{"start":9297.372,"end":9320.387,"text":"所以在這邊就是說要怎樣讓農民能夠習慣轉換這支藥希望農業部這邊可以有更好的一個想法那本席是建議說是不是有可能在一到三年的期間在使用這支新藥的時候我們可以免費來提供讓他們習慣使用之後然後慢慢來改用這個藥品"},{"start":9321.981,"end":9338.042,"text":"我跟委員說明,就是因為二氯乙醇的劇毒性,我們用青蟒素去取代。那根據我們試驗感染症的優化的一個技術,現在目前用青蟒素的使用的藥劑的包括人工噴油的成本已經比二氯乙醇還低了。"},{"start":9338.925,"end":9357.485,"text":"二例以前每公頃大概6400塊那用清盤數大概是4500塊而已所以相對的它的整個使用成本是已經比較低了雖然說它的藥劑單價比較高但是它的稀釋倍數同樣的也比較高所以它比較便宜這第一個部分第二個部分"},{"start":9385.191,"end":9412.736,"text":"謝謝陳委員數月的質詢,也謝謝院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第37號,政委員天才。院長、陳院長及各部會的首長,有請陳院長。"},{"start":9414.681,"end":9440.669,"text":"請陳院長備詢。政委員長,恭喜您連任。陳院長上任之後,第三次來質詢陳院長。我再次的以聖經尼加書第6章第8節,行公義,好憐憫,存謙卑心,以你的神同行,來勉勵。"},{"start":9442.791,"end":9467.588,"text":"陳院長以及所有各部會的首長謝謝我們看這個原住民學生就讀公私立專科以上學校學雜費應該要調高這個上次我也質詢了這近5年來大專院校的學生出債協力嚴漢的出債協力的差距從107學年度"},{"start":9471.423,"end":9499.398,"text":"差距31.9、108斜年度差距31.5、109斜年度差距31.4,但是到了110斜年度差距增加了,差距32.2到32.4,不斷的增加。這個裡面大概有兩個原因,第一個當然這個升學保障的外加名額,"},{"start":9500.296,"end":9528.163,"text":"是不是要檢討這是一個。第二個就是原住民的學生也是經濟的因素。經濟的因素。原住民族教育法特別規定原住民學生就讀專科以上學校者應減免其學雜費。這個已經實施很多年了。去年行政院宣布減免私立大專學雜費3.5萬。"},{"start":9531.28,"end":9553.145,"text":"但是這個部分因為原住民學生的接面本來就比這個低了就是所要所能要繳的費用就已經比這個低了所以原住民學生在這個政策裡面毫無受益都沒有受益到所以這個本席也召開過協調會因為這個已經"},{"start":9558.408,"end":9586.011,"text":"從107年1月11日解免的數額到現在已經超過6年都沒有調整在去年10月31日本席質詢陳院長陳院長答覆我們請教育部研議研議之後教育部10月31日答覆也未免太快了"},{"start":9586.857,"end":9608.835,"text":"部長以後不用那麼快答覆,好好的演繹。編預算,籌編預算,我們要籌編預算。所以這個部分等於目前都還沒有一個動靜。所以本席是希望陳院長能夠督導我們的教育部。當然要編預算,這個時候是籌編預算的時刻。"},{"start":9613.427,"end":9614.227,"text":"另外呢﹖"},{"start":9644.025,"end":9672.422,"text":"生血保障辦法這個生血保障辦法外加的名額是96年就開始民國96年就開始用外加2%當然本席後來這個質詢那時候是葉俊隆部長同意專案調高部分的科系外加5%我的建議已經實施這麼多年了然後我們的"},{"start":9673.683,"end":9673.883,"text":"院長可以嗎?"},{"start":9691.532,"end":9718.784,"text":"這個部分我想可能需要請教育部這邊來考慮在這個部長還沒有說明之前我來說第一個大家都知道少子女化對不對現在都少子女化很多大學都招不滿學生所以我們是外加不會排擠到"},{"start":9720.171,"end":9726.156,"text":"謝謝委員,我跟委員報告因為委員在委員會也在關心這個議題那我也跟委員報告說因為現在教育部跟園民會會針對園民在相關領域人才的養成"},{"start":9739.946,"end":9753.213,"text":"那百分之二是一個最基礎事實上如果有一些科系他招生已經超過報名就是說他得說提供的名額還不夠的部分其實他本來在可以再著徵到百分之五的空間目前"},{"start":9754.097,"end":9782.291,"text":"幾個大學的系所只要有這種反應都會這樣做但是不是用全面把差2%到5%我比較會務實的說如果相關的除了我們有極少數是比較限制型的像醫學等等這個再擴大可能會有一些討論但是如果一般屬於援助民主人才養成有需要的我想教育部跟民會都會來邀請大學積極的來拓展所以我想是不是以這樣的方式來因應目前如果"},{"start":9782.916,"end":9806.591,"text":"還不足的部分我們來請大學全力的協助這方面提升外加的名額部長還是要去盤點整個為什麼這個我們每年都會去檢討委員一直在關注這個不是每年都檢討現在特別檢討為什麼呢因為這個政策是專案條項5%實施這幾年了"},{"start":9810.936,"end":9840.286,"text":"沒有,沒有,看起來沒有什麼效果,因為我們的出,沿岸落差的出債協力反而拉大,所以這個部分好好檢討好不好。好,委員這個一定會檢討啦,現在如果剛才跟委員報告,因為現在看到的現象是學校開出的外加名額比如提高後發現學生報名的人數不達這個啦,像這個當然我們就維持不必,但是如果發現很踴躍的科系這方面啦,我們就積極檢討好不好。把詳細的資料做素面提供好不好。"},{"start":9842.418,"end":9854.507,"text":"好接下來這個部長就請回座接下來就是都會期原住民人口現在已經高達49.57%2分之1如果加上沒有社會籍在都會期就學就業的絕對是超過70%超過70%"},{"start":9870.993,"end":9899.291,"text":"所以原住民的住宅會跟教育有關係。我一直是從教育的立場去看原住民族的住宅。我要特別跟院長講,我在當副主委,延命會副主委的時候提出租屋補助,最先開始租屋補助是延命會提出來的,我當副主委提出來的。"},{"start":9900.992,"end":9929.64,"text":"當時的經建會副主委我們張景生政委他當時是經建會副主委我們提出來的時候他很訝異經建會很訝異怎麼會有豬屋補助這樣的一個想法經過詳細說明我是從教育來去說明接受了實施幾年之後內政部認為不錯所以擴大到"},{"start":9930.677,"end":9931.057,"text":"住宅法第2條第4項"},{"start":9955.868,"end":9985.499,"text":"目的事業主管的因事嚴肅民族教育及語言文化等傳承發展的需要要興建專攻嚴肅民族群組之社會住宅。這個法105年12月23日修正到現在。這個前的部分我也質詢106年3月27日就質詢內政部同意用住宅基金修法到現在"},{"start":9986.727,"end":10016.034,"text":"七年兩個月了,到目前沒有專攻原住民居住的社會住宅的計畫在執行。因為延民會沒有這方面的專業人員,既然內政部有住都中心,部長請內政部的住都中心協助延民會,會同地方政府去推動這個專攻原住民"},{"start":10016.816,"end":10017.177,"text":"主席"},{"start":10032.611,"end":10060.923,"text":"技術的一個這個協助我想這部分是沒有問題第二是鄭委員剛剛有提到原住民族的社會住宅其實目前在包括臺中的沙鹿或者新北市的樹林以及桃園的部分其實已經有三處大概有541戶所以這個是可以跟這個地方政府還有包括中央目的事業主管機關我們園民會這邊大家一起來合作"},{"start":10061.608,"end":10090.625,"text":"部長,你把現在的進度提供,順便讀目前的進度。好,請部長回座。原住民長者政策均應降為55歲。本席在第9屆第8會期質詢蘇前院長。蘇前院長答覆說,基於近老以及原住民移民比較短,"},{"start":10091.726,"end":10114.411,"text":"所以有降低那就一個標準不必雙重標準我同意我同意我對於政委員的指教的這個在這種原則上我是同意這是108年10月8號的一個答覆那我上次在112年3月7號在這裡也質詢了陳院長陳院長答覆我們請政務委員來協調各部會"},{"start":10123.143,"end":10151.817,"text":"林萬毅政務委員112年4月2日言商結論,這是人民會答覆的一個公文。倘將原住民族老人之定義降為55歲恐違反國際歧視。我看到這個公文非常的訝異。國民年金法很早就規定年滿55歲的原住民。公務人員退休之前撫恤法"},{"start":10152.318,"end":10173.215,"text":"第17條第6項,這是106年8月9日公佈施行的,即有原住民身份的將為55歲。公立學校教職員退休之前撫恤條例第18條第4項,這是106年8月9日公佈施行的,即原住民身份的將為55歲。衛福部的長照2.0計畫"},{"start":10180.868,"end":10181.769,"text":"109 二月二十四日"},{"start":10211.503,"end":10238.95,"text":"鄭文燦副院長當時是桃園市市長宣布年滿55歲的原住民會有進勞卡。陳時中部長前任部長原住民55歲納入優先接種疫苗疫情期間。台南市現在的黃偉哲市長去年7月開辦老人健保補助"},{"start":10239.745,"end":10267.115,"text":"納入55歲以上原住民長者。新北市也是一樣在7年也是健保補助55歲原住民。所以原住民族長者政策降為55歲沒有違反國際歧視。我們是領先國際保障原住民族。所以這個部分"},{"start":10268.226,"end":10289.72,"text":"院長 我不知道要怎麼質詢這個部分我覺得這裡面分兩件事情一個國際趨勢的意思就是說國際上對於這個老年人的定義就是65歲但是就原住民的這個權益的保障或者是在加強原住民的照顧的這個部分"},{"start":10290.66,"end":10311.591,"text":"政府的不同的部會確確實實是有把照顧長者的年齡降為55歲。我想實質上更重要的是實質照顧的部分。所以我們的很多的辦法也都是以55歲作為照顧的依據。所以這是一個"},{"start":10312.671,"end":10326.059,"text":"民生上的問題但是我想是各部會都會努力的合作來跟原民會一起努力提供我們的長者更好的社會照顧的還有社會福利的部分"},{"start":10327.708,"end":10329.409,"text":"我們先從交通好了。為什麼呢?"},{"start":10355.515,"end":10383.829,"text":"這幾個新北五都啊現在五都啊我剛剛講了五都都有啊進勞卡然後進勞卡他們坐公車尤其是台北市、新北市還有高雄都有捷運嘛坐了捷運捷運轉完要轉這個火車要轉火車的七間車就不能用對不對"},{"start":10385.56,"end":10411.692,"text":"然後或是做高鐵,做高鐵到桃園或到哪裡,不能用,進勞卡不能用。是不是先,既然院長剛才的答覆是這樣,那是不是就從交通開始,第一個火車,第二個高鐵,這兩個。"},{"start":10414.81,"end":10440.778,"text":"因為現在整個有捷運有公車的都做了都做了所以這個部分也不用擔心了交通部一直擔心部長來了交通部一直擔心會不會影響到經費事實上按照大眾捷運法的規定這個費用部長你要聽"},{"start":10444.076,"end":10471.242,"text":"按照《大眾捷運法》這個費用是政府要付的,可以付。民間,何況火車也不是民間,對不對?高鐵民間,但是一樣按照《大眾捷運法》可以由政府來貼給他。另外就是飛機,飛機少了,我們就先從火車好了,"},{"start":10481.287,"end":10498.035,"text":"您剛才談到那個55歲的部分,它那法源有個別的法源,但是我們現在國內的所謂陸海空的這個半價,這是來自老人福利法的25條。我知道。那老人福利法它就規定65歲,然後在陸海空裡面半價。"},{"start":10498.925,"end":10527.879,"text":"那這個意思是說如果要修的話一定要從老人福利法這個沿途要不然現在鐵路如果你講鐵路高鐵那我還有捷運還有公車所以我們在過去也都有跟委員報告就是我們的這個半價在是老人福利法所說下面的一個規定部長你這樣的回答就形同在說剛才我念的這些部會包括"},{"start":10529.102,"end":10557.097,"text":"這些直轄市政府、縣市政府都違反了老人福利法。這樣的說法,帶有這樣的一個很大的疑慮。所以,不要再用這個老人福利法作為理由了。如果這樣的話,全部撤銷了。老人福利法25條裡面。宣布這些政策全部違法。"},{"start":10558.803,"end":10584.637,"text":"因為他們不是來自老人福利法,我們的公共運輸是來自老人福利法下面的規定。不同的。不同,不同,是。目前是這樣,我跟委員報告。完全錯誤,這個院長、部長,這個鐵路法,如果說要修法,就修嘛,鐵路法,就像國民年金法,"},{"start":10585.697,"end":10614.053,"text":"不同於不同於這個老人福利法公教的這些府系條例也不同於福利法所以這個部分要不要做而已只要願意做因為老人福利法沒有說全部都不可以沒有這樣寫我是寫法律的這個條文沒有這樣寫"},{"start":10615.205,"end":10628.509,"text":"就是因為沒有降血,所以這麼多的部會都這樣做。所以這個部長你回去好好再提出修法了。"},{"start":10629.951,"end":10632.453,"text":"市長,你現在沒有公路了,沒有公路幾了啦?"},{"start":10657.165,"end":10678.436,"text":"現在就是捷運跟公車公車也不是你管的好不好公車都55歲了接下來部長就請回座上次質詢我們的陳院長的時候我特別提到2015年8月1日蔡總統"},{"start":10681.28,"end":10706.02,"text":"提出原住民主政策的主張。我們發現了願望。2016年上任之後8月1日向原住民主道歉並且做了非常重要的承諾。我們看到了盼望尤其是行政院在律法院承諾2016年6月27日的時候承諾"},{"start":10710.118,"end":10732.991,"text":"在12月底前將《土海法》送到立法院,我們看到了希望。但是隨著幾個政策的發現,我們開始懷疑,也開始失望,更是絕望。所以當初112年3月7日領席在這裡質詢陳院長,期望陳院長"},{"start":10738.007,"end":10765.514,"text":"給原住民族大驚喜希望促成蔡總統承諾的原住民族政策但是經過了一年幾個重要的看起來已經很困難了原住民族自治法原住民族屠海法已經是沒有希望了當然陳院長如果你細認的話"},{"start":10767.11,"end":10795.072,"text":"我們還希望有個大驚奇了。好,我們先看這個還可以做的,馬上做的。可以馬上做的,但是一直沒有做的。蔡總統8月1日,105年8月1日向原住民組道歉的時候也承諾部落公法人的制度我們已經推動上路。蔡總統為什麼會這樣說呢?"},{"start":10797.261,"end":10812.925,"text":"是因為部落公法人是法律依據原住民族基本法第二條之一,部落為公法人。部落的設置辦法由中央人民會來定定。當然,到現在還沒有定。為什麼沒有定?本來很期待"},{"start":10827.509,"end":10854.921,"text":"上次我有提很期待我們的陳院長。我們陳院長在112年9月13日召開了研究法第16次的推動會。推動會裡面除了報告事項還是報告事項。兩個報告都是報告事項。都是報告事項。"},{"start":10856.499,"end":10880.576,"text":"沒有討論事項這是需要檢討的地方要請這個負責這個業務的除了人民會之外行政院的相關的部門應該提供資訊給院長說不應該只有報告事項因為研究法第三條的"},{"start":10881.4,"end":10901.849,"text":"特別規定行政院為了審議協調本法相關事務,所以設置這個推動會。為什麼部落工法人沒有辦法,已經這麼多年了,8年了,快8年了,都還沒有辦法定出來,要去討論、去審議、去檢討,很可惜沒有檢討。"},{"start":10908.479,"end":10936.141,"text":"所以這個部分是一個非常大的遺憾。好,我們看蔡總統另外一個很重要的承諾。今年的11月1日我們會開始劃設公告原住民族傳統領域土地。107年6月11日聯名會公告了劃設烏來期泰雅族各部落少族原住民族土地的傳統領域。"},{"start":10938.22,"end":10961.688,"text":"但是少主的傳統禮儀很快的被行政院撤銷,所以現在只有一個,八年來只有一個,烏來幾個部落?四個部落,公告了烏來四個部落,總共原住民委員會所核定的部落是幾個?737,等於是737分之4。"},{"start":10968.815,"end":10995.343,"text":"七百三十七分之四所以這個是為夫其為所以這個部分我們就看未來107年到現在有沒有怎麼樣部落還是國有的這些傳統領域還是國有的有怎麼樣嗎?怕什麼呢?所以這個我不知道到底是什麼原因"},{"start":10997.298,"end":11026.169,"text":"好,105年8月11日蔡總統走訪督蘭部落說要正式公告督蘭部落的傳統領域結果呢?退伍會主委也不用來了不用上來請那個財政部部長來蔡政府竟然違法將督蘭部落傳統領域用出租啊我們的傳統領域我們還要成租啊所以這個部分是一個很"},{"start":11028.783,"end":11056.79,"text":"突然部落相親反對委託經營的錯誤路線還我傳統山林海域還我舊部落還我祖靈地我們看看我本來一直很希望上次這封信給我們宜將主委看過好幾次我本來希望你能夠比照寫信給退伍會主委可惜沒有"},{"start":11058.77,"end":11086.918,"text":"民國77年5月15日退會主委寫了這封信答覆吳博雄部長說為利用之土地徹銷撥用返還啊。未來還有這種沒有安置的需要的還要繼續返還。這個對於原住民組合議員就是一個承諾是一個契約啊。"},{"start":11088.612,"end":11114.902,"text":"很可惜,退伍條例規定很清楚,為了就業所需要的土地給退伍費。結果現在都是什麼?都委託經營,都出租啊,都是出租。國有財源法規定,用途變廢紙的時候,變更原定用途的時候,以原定用途外裝工收益,出租就是收益嘛。"},{"start":11116.208,"end":11145.125,"text":"違反了國產法39條三個。三個違反三個啊。真的是看了啊。原住民這土地被撥用。現在退伍會也沒有做就業之用。結果全部都出租給民間企業、給個人。不同意返還給原住民。中華民國政府"},{"start":11145.775,"end":11174.746,"text":"為什麼要違反要違法違反什麼呢?違反原住民族基本法違反國軍退族裔官民輔導條例違反國有財產法還有一個剛才我講的退會主委代表中華民國政府說我不用的時候我這還要返還這是一個企業民法的規定"},{"start":11176.085,"end":11204.333,"text":"也違反民法。所以啊,威權統治時期,民國77年是威權統治時期。政府依法,依國產法,廢紙撥用,返還原住民族土地。現在是民主憲政時期,違法營利出租原住民族土地。中華民國政府有窮到要出租,違法出租嗎?所以啊,"},{"start":11206.431,"end":11226.059,"text":"部長這是你的責任因為這是國有財產法的明定請部長你是寫法律的部長加油是跟委員報告我想這個部分屬於退府會目前在管理的他是屬於國有公用財產那至於他有沒有違反國有財產法"},{"start":11233.032,"end":11241.659,"text":"跟鄭委員天才報告因為時間關係能不能剩下的請財政部退股會跟你書面報告好嗎?好,謝謝鄭委員天才,謝謝陳委員長的備詢,謝謝。接下來請高金委員素梅質詢。"},{"start":11269.963,"end":11274.847,"text":"謝謝韓院長。我們現在有請陳院長。麻煩再請陳院長備詢。院長您好。看守內閣還有兩個半月。您真是老計福利啊。辛苦了。然後呢這兩個半月雖然是看守內閣,其實呢您也可以做非常多福國利民的事情。"},{"start":11294.622,"end":11314.557,"text":"我來講一個積極正向的例子來給您聽在2016年的2月1號馬英九他提名張善政當任行政院長他作為政黨輪替的看守內閣總共109天在這109天因為張善政院長他的積極作為因此對我們園鄉有了非常多重大的改變"},{"start":11315.896,"end":11326.85,"text":"當時我對剛上任的張院長提出了我的總諮詢我跟他提出原鄉危險的路段受限於國土富裕計劃沒有辦法進行改善"},{"start":11327.811,"end":11346.061,"text":"為什麼不把原鄉危險的路段還有我們的橋樑也納入可以拓寬可以新闢道路的生活圈道路交通系統建設系統。張院長他當時答覆我是說可以研議。質詢後的隔天我就帶著所有的資料到行政院裡面找張院長討論。"},{"start":11347.542,"end":11371.439,"text":"張院長他很快的也找來他的幕僚我們來研究結論是修改計劃並且只要由院長來合格就可以了張院長他就立刻指示一個月之內要完成這8年下來我們用生活圈道路經費改善了非常多原鄉危險的道路還有從來不被大家重視的橋樑"},{"start":11372.651,"end":11400.697,"text":"受委的地區有您去過的堅實鄉、武豐鄉、泰安、阿里山鄉、仁愛、茂林區、蘭藝鄉、獅子鄉、牡丹鄉、還有離島蘭嶼。院長您看一個月這樣積極的作為所謂的看守內閣他可以做明快的決策會帶來一連串非常好的結果而且一直持續到未來。我講這個案例是希望您也能夠有積極的作為可以嗎?"},{"start":11401.838,"end":11426.533,"text":"好謝謝我先跟你談幾個原住民的問題第一個我談的是幸福巴士這裡10月份的時候你還記得嗎您提到要改善偏鄉的交通的幸福巴士你還去過尖石鄉當時你跟我說有很多需要精進的地方比如說老舊的車輛需要更新請問一下院長現在你們怎麼精進原鄉地區你們到底更換了多少"},{"start":11427.455,"end":11454.743,"text":"我們的幸福巴士這個幸福巴士的這個部分我請交通部長來做一個回應我們把時間暫停一下部長請您可以很從容的上台是好請您回答謝謝在過去的確這個幸福巴士的部分不用說太多你要怎麼經濟我們會補助然後你換了多少量現在那個殲死的部分他們我了解好像現在有一部很舊的現在有所以只有殲死"},{"start":11455.603,"end":11455.723,"text":"謝謝您 謝謝好"},{"start":11482.368,"end":11501.868,"text":"這個是幸福巴士的問題。第二個我要談的是部落聯絡道路。部落聯絡道路使用棄燃費的部分,去年我們園民會調查了所有原住民地區的公里數,它承報的經費是3.6億的道路養護經費。結果承報上來也被我們的交通部打了5折,它只核定了1.7億。"},{"start":11503.349,"end":11530.123,"text":"曾多周少的狀況之下引起很多困擾我們都知道部落的聯絡道路就是因為縣市政府長期以來沒有給原鄉的養護道路所以因為我的質詢我的要求所以我們才現在把氣燃費撥到原民會直接下到鄉公所來養護道路上一次院長你還記得嗎您在這邊也同意我要改善請問您交辦了嗎然後不足的經費會補足嗎"},{"start":11534.246,"end":11554.115,"text":"議長這個部分我想在道路養父的這個經費的部分請您快一點回答會還是不會今年會不會補足我們的3.6億這個部分我要回去再瞭解您上次都說要研議啊你現在還是研議嗎還是我明天到行政院去找您"},{"start":11557.677,"end":11561.32,"text":"第三,我要談到原家中心的問題。去年的6、7月,我訪視了各地的原住民家福中心。"},{"start":11576.334,"end":11592.242,"text":"也記錄了非常多原家中心長年的問題還有它的困境後來呢我在委員會裡面質詢提出我們應該要把原家中心也納進衛福部的社會安全體系在這裡我要給我們行政體系比個讚"},{"start":11593.703,"end":11622.179,"text":"不到半年的時間我們的政務委員也已經完成跨部會的政策協調了。所以呢也同意把原價中心在114年度納到社安網。今年的下半年就會舉辦衛福部跟園民會的共識營。院長114年度原住民家福中心轉型計畫只差最後一路就可以上路了。就是要報請行政院長您核准。在這裡請問您同意嗎?您核准了嗎?"},{"start":11624.3,"end":11650.701,"text":"這個案子目前的話正在衛福部這邊要修正那個事案的計畫衛福部什麼時候修正好然後讓我們院長他在離開這個看守內閣之後可以來核准應該可以在五二年之前把他修正五二年你不要五二年五一九最後一天給院長不會不會謝謝所以院長你也同意對不對請他們報上來你就可以核准衛福部簽上來他們也會跟我"},{"start":11651.822,"end":11677.58,"text":"請問服務是不是可以在20天內提出來讓我們的院長來核准?跟委員報告這是整個社安網的第二屆,還要全部要修纜。你們只是把這個計畫送到行政院而已嗎?好不好?不要浪費我的時間。可以嗎?20天之內。這是全國性的計畫,他把它放在裡面。我知道,那多久的時間要給院長核准?他說導演你在519以前啊。"},{"start":11678.865,"end":11686.008,"text":"繼續我要談到的是禁法補償上次總質詢的時候我也提到具有原住民轉息正義精神的禁法補償條例我提到平地休耕的補助一公頃是五萬塊然後原住民的禁法補償一公頃只有三萬塊非常的不公平"},{"start":11708.038,"end":11732.731,"text":"當時你也說可以研議我當然知道這是涉及到修法在你看守內閣的期間是由行政院提出版本可能來不及了但是我是立法委員我會提出修法的版本然後我算過如果修法院長您同意的話我們以今年的面積來計算的話我們修法每一年可以增加13.6億院長你是不是樂觀其成"},{"start":11733.707,"end":11749.481,"text":"這個修法如果通過的話那當然我們就將來處理。好,非常謝謝院長。以上我提到的都是一些原住民族的問題。謝謝你在這邊有非常好的互動而且非常好的回答。繼續我要跟你談到食安的問題了。"},{"start":11751.479,"end":11774.876,"text":"我看了您的施安報告,院長您總是以一句科學頂住了所有的詢答。我也看了非常多的資料。今天我就以我自己個人的常識認知來闡述我對施安政策的看法。那在這邊我也要請院長,我希望我能夠完整地講完我的一段話之後呢,我都會留時間讓您回答。我們當中不要這樣針鋒相對,好不好?"},{"start":11777.358,"end":11803.237,"text":"去年5月發生好市多日本綜合莓果事件,造成了全民恐慌。檢驗出含有禁用農藥弗尼安0.1ppm,必須要全部銷毀。而我們的食藥署也暫停了好市多莓果輸入一個月的時間。結果,過了8個月左右,我們的食藥署在今年的1月24日公告修正了農藥殘留容許量的標準。"},{"start":11805.198,"end":11823.617,"text":"緊用農藥福尼安從零減出放寬到0.7ppm同樣是日本美國8個月之前會傷害我們人民的健康不可以吃要銷毀8個月之後就變成不會傷害人體健康可以放心吃"},{"start":11824.258,"end":11843.256,"text":"我本來以為食藥署是經過8個月的科學驗證日本美國只要不超過0.7ppm的弗尼安就對我們的健康無害可是我在查資料之後我發現禁用農藥弗尼安從0.出範寬為0.7ppm並不是科學驗證是政治放水"},{"start":11849.562,"end":11874.833,"text":"因為日本交流協會提出申請,要求禁用農藥弗尼安,從0減除範寬為0.7ppm。然而我們的食藥署也順著日本的壓力開放了食品安全科學驗證在這個例子裡面我們可以看到放兩邊政治正確擺中間,國民健康就這樣被霸凌了。請問一下院長您的看法。"},{"start":11875.677,"end":11889.787,"text":"我想這一個東西是按照那個Codex的標準,這國際的標準來訂定的。好,我理解。為什麼8個月之前是危害人體,不可以。為什麼8個月之後,那國際標準完全沒有改變啊?"},{"start":11893.98,"end":11914.487,"text":"好了,我可以接受您的說法,院長我們在這裡,我接受您的說法,但是我也會提出非常多的驗證在我們今天總質詢裡面會提出來。好,我們再來看一下,在這次八年實案問題總檢討專案報告裡面,您下的結論是,過去的八年雖然遭遇許多的挑戰,"},{"start":11915.367,"end":11933.597,"text":"然而蔡政府有效強化食安管理體系,重建國人以及全世界對臺灣食安的信賴,而食安的維護以及持續提升是朝野共同的目標,也需要全民共同攜手來努力,讓我們彼此勉勵這是您說的。"},{"start":11935.018,"end":11950.318,"text":"但是蔡政府的食安管理真的有重建國人還有全世界對臺灣食安的信賴嗎?有守護我國的食品安全嗎?我們來看看近年修正的農藥殘留容許量的標準的內容。"},{"start":11951.598,"end":11971.872,"text":"因為美國在台協會他申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容量從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而歐盟的標準是0.3ppm然後也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的桿馬桿局我們的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到0.3ppm而歐盟的標準是0.1ppm"},{"start":11980.34,"end":11982.321,"text":"澳洲的標準是0減粗。"},{"start":12008.67,"end":12025.855,"text":"草莓的農藥殘餘容許量從0減除放寬到0.3ppm澳洲的標準是0減除更因為日本交流協會他的申請他的紫蘇花穗的農藥殘留容許量從0減除放寬到10.0ppm"},{"start":12032.077,"end":12045.185,"text":"而美國、歐盟、澳洲最多的容許量只有0.02ppm。我們再來看蘋果。蘋果的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到3.0ppm。"},{"start":12048.047,"end":12069.398,"text":"而國際上僅僅只有日本比這個標準還高。茶的農業殘留容量是從0減出放寬到10.0ppm。然而國際上也只有日本是超過這個標準。再來談葡萄,葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到1.0ppm。"},{"start":12073.53,"end":12088.44,"text":"也很湊巧的國際上也只有日本超過這個標準為什麼我們都要奪後日本進口食品的農藥殘留容許量我認為早已經被政治改到混亂舞弊同樣是"},{"start":12090.721,"end":12106.345,"text":"美國葡萄的農藥殘留容許量是從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而日本近來我們的葡萄是農藥的殘留容許量從0減出放寬到1.0ppm"},{"start":12108.706,"end":12137.773,"text":"同樣是葡萄啊為什麼從美國進口跟美國進口我們放寬的PPM的標準也不一樣這到底是什麼樣的食安管理標準即便我剛剛提了那麼多的例子所謂就依照院長您說的依照國際慣例的標準我們為什麼一定要選擇比較差的標準去依循而國人的安全科學到底是政治還是什麼"},{"start":12140.4,"end":12148.488,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛委員講的這一些你都用一個叫做農藥容許標準我知道但是它是不同的農藥"},{"start":12149.764,"end":12175.521,"text":"所以會有領是因為國內沒有進去沒有票。不好意思我剛剛也提到了不僅僅是這些我們放寬的容許量美國或者是澳洲或者是其他國家都不一樣我們為什麼選擇都是比較差的呢?所以不一樣是因為不同的農藥不同種類的農藥那我們國內如果原先沒有用我們就是領檢出但是當他來申請的時候我們就會"},{"start":12177.903,"end":12181.226,"text":"為什麼我們國內的專家要確認這個的時候不選擇總是比較低的這個東西要允許掉呢?當然會去選擇嘛"},{"start":12200.325,"end":12202.808,"text":"同樣一個水果的話在日本用的農藥跟在美國用的農藥或許是不一樣的"},{"start":12221.737,"end":12232.546,"text":"我們再來看看蔡政府執政8年,20次修正了農藥殘留容許標準,共修正放寬了312項的農藥殘留容許標準。"},{"start":12236.929,"end":12252.559,"text":"然後有113種是免定容許容量。然後另外8年我們總共9次修正了動物用藥殘留標準。總共修正放官了147項的用藥殘留量。有23項是免定殘留容許量。"},{"start":12258.723,"end":12272.936,"text":"美國萊克多巴胺豬肉就是從零減出修訂為容許10ppb開放進口。我覺得可笑的是我們的台灣豬農還是禁用萊克多巴胺。"},{"start":12273.917,"end":12290.703,"text":"一個科學有兩種標準這些有哪一項是根據科學驗證而修正的然後這幾百項修正有很多是因為美國在台協會還有日本交流協會他們提出申請而修正"},{"start":12291.403,"end":12309.665,"text":"我認為禁藥不再是禁藥,容許殘留標準大幅放寬。我認為蔡政府的食安五環早已經被所謂的政治飛鏢射到千瘡百孔。當然這不是您就任一年"},{"start":12310.586,"end":12327.878,"text":"您要負的責任,但是在您高舉科學護食安,我認為豈不是堂吉科德嗎?您可以回答,謝謝。我想剛才已經講得很清楚,實際上全世界各個國家在訂定這一個農藥殘餘容許量或者動物"},{"start":12329.659,"end":12331.519,"text":"我剛剛提了這麼多的案例是我們去查的。"},{"start":12356.704,"end":12384.054,"text":"葡萄也好柑橘也好也是根據國境的規定所以國境的規定裡面我們開放但是呢其他的國家他們也有很低的標準啊那麼按照您說的按照的國際上的標準我們為什麼不選擇所謂的農藥殘留量是最低的而是要選擇這個某某些的協會或者是美國或者是日本"},{"start":12384.534,"end":12389.016,"text":"提出要求我們的容許量而來做改變。所謂的國際驗證跟國際科學到底在哪裡?"},{"start":12396.457,"end":12416.56,"text":"世界上要定一個容許量的時候,就有一個國際的標準叫做Codex。這個Codex的標準出來以後呢,它會按照這一個國家的人民的攝取量是多少,來定定這一個標準是多少。我舉一個很簡單的例子,我以前……不用再舉例子了,謝謝院長,您就簡單的說……黃曲獨樹就是一個例子。"},{"start":12417.1,"end":12421.981,"text":"很好,你講這個案例太好,我就是憋乾的代言者。那我的意思是說為什麼不選擇標準差的,而是根據不同的人要求報告。"},{"start":12442.046,"end":12445.487,"text":"您講那麼多我再提醒您一下為什麼日本的紫蘇花卉農藥的殘留容許量"},{"start":12471.132,"end":12472.113,"text":"我就跟你講這個跟攝食量是有關係所以"},{"start":12495.262,"end":12524.011,"text":"如果你完全不要講科學你就只講一個標準那全世界不同國家的標準我提的也是其他國家的標準你挑一個最低的標準來看這是不公平的啦我提的也是其他國家的標準我只是覺得美國跟澳洲跟澳洲他們是0.02為什麼我們就要採取日本的好不好所以呢我常常百思不得其解為什麼我們用基本的常識認知就知道是錯誤的政策"},{"start":12524.531,"end":12544.42,"text":"我們的政府總是要拒絕檢討修正,然後一路的修捍衛到底,我們真的不知道為什麼。例如,錯誤的防疫政策我們花了8400億,結果口罩幫、疫苗幫、快篩幫一路橫行。錯誤的非核家園的能源政策,我們投入了幾個兆。"},{"start":12545.489,"end":12545.509,"text":"委員長："},{"start":12574.034,"end":12597.743,"text":"我以前總是苦口婆心的希望我們的政府能夠來修正一下你們的錯誤政策現在我真的恍然大悟了這個恍然大悟是什麼或許我們的民進黨你們的執政團隊需要我們這些所謂剛剛提到的這些利益幫派所以你們硬要推這些錯誤的政策"},{"start":12598.718,"end":12605.265,"text":"我完全不同意,而且你講的這些都是錯的啦。民間都知道有這麼多的幫派出現,而大家也都清楚知道我們政府的能源政策是錯誤的。有?"},{"start":12617.358,"end":12645.04,"text":"好你讓我貼標籤我讓全國人民來聽我剛提到了能源政策是錯誤的能源政策現在不管是所有的全民正在接受到缺電的這樣的困擾我們的電費也越來越高然後我們的空汙也越來越多缺電是馬英九時代有缺電現在沒有缺電而且我們現在的備載量都是夠的"},{"start":12646.721,"end":12673.042,"text":"所以沒有缺電所以你剛才講的不是正確的事實那你不能用不正確的事實來貼標籤對不起院長我要打斷您你不能夠說我剛剛提的數據是不正確的我希望我告訴你我提的每一個政策所有的數據都是經過我們非常嚴謹的找出資料請問什麼時候缺電"},{"start":12673.883,"end":12689.65,"text":"你說數據那我問你缺電的數據你去問問看全民有沒有突然就缺電然後就告訴我是老鼠告訴我是飛鼠你去看看你去問問看原住民的地區我們都清楚知道是因為缺電所以你們才會把這些電然後無緣無故的去斷電然後提升"},{"start":12700.814,"end":12714.199,"text":"這個都是公開透明的資料,這不是缺電。您不能夠說我的訊息是錯的,這個時候我不接受。這個訊息我不接受,對不起院長。我們不需要在這邊用不明快的回答跟答詢來做。我們不可以在這邊再做這樣的訊息回答好不好?"},{"start":12727.759,"end":12745.977,"text":"那個,高經緯很辛苦了,謝謝。那個,正好時間到,不然我要呼籲一下大家。好,謝謝,謝謝韓院長。我這邊還是要重申,我真的不接受院長說我的敘事是錯誤的,謝謝。時間先暫停一下,容許我,高經緯,還有7分鐘。"},{"start":12747.85,"end":12771.432,"text":"您還有7分鐘我把時間暫停是因為容許我跟院會報告一下好了沒關係我們的院長他已經定調了沒關係我們的這個陳院長也定調了但是呢我今天所提的質詢我相信是可以經過接受全民的檢驗好不好您可以有您的說法社會自由公平相信社會自由公平我也相信理直氣壯謝謝"},{"start":12774.768,"end":12793.317,"text":"謝謝高金委員的質詢謝謝陳院長的備詢報告院會上午質詢到此為止本次會議未有委員提出臨時提案我們就不進行臨時提案之處理下午2點30分繼續開會進行質詢現在休息謝謝"},{"start":21612.233,"end":21613.914,"text":"報告委員會現在繼續開會,我們進行質詢。請林委員願請質詢。麻煩請陳院長備詢。"},{"start":21645.578,"end":21671.559,"text":"林委員午安,恭喜你當選立委。謝謝院長。少子化是我們的國安問題。政府也提出各種解方來做催生。但少子化的解方不是只有催生,應該同時要拒絕死亡。在孩子生得少的時候,一個孩子都不能少。所以我請行政院應該要來正視兒少死亡的事實。"},{"start":21673.439,"end":21674.019,"text":"我抱歉我不太清楚這個數字"},{"start":21697.425,"end":21722.138,"text":"沒有關係那我們就直接來看一下數據那在111年實際上比國發會的預估還要多我們總共有1108位的孩子離開了其中呢非病死自然死高達247人又以事故傷害跟自殺排名第一第二那過去呢交通事故呢"},{"start":21722.688,"end":21723.928,"text":"那麼再來看死亡率"},{"start":21751.741,"end":21780.322,"text":"我們的自殺死亡率不減反增而且現行制度跟解方是不夠的那解方無效意味著沒有充分掌握原因那因為本席認為常常就是沒有充分掌握原因就會造成沒有辦法提出好的改善策略所以我們來看0到17歲這個受傷的人數次院長跟我們的部長過去我在民間團體"},{"start":21781.872,"end":21802.673,"text":"一直跟政府部門倡議請提供正確的數據才能夠找到真正的原因和提出好的解方可是往往拿到各部會的數據是不一致的所以今天我要利用這個機會跟各位講請重視孩子的史上的一個數據為什麼"},{"start":21804.605,"end":21830.446,"text":"因為這次我從衛福部跟交通部拿到的數據也非常的不一致怎麼看不一致呢衛福部提供的所有原因傷害人次竟然比交通部提供的數據還要低怎麼會統整所有死亡原因的數據比單一因數還要低這點我請行政院必須要有全責機關來我們檢視我們的兒少傷亡"},{"start":21834.053,"end":21862.441,"text":"提出正確的數據。 院長這一點你同意嗎?我同意。我想因為我自己是做流行辟學而且分析過。實際上機動車事故的傷害人數是由這個交通部這一邊請警政單位等等在收集。那衛福部這一邊的話是從另外一個機制來。那這個最好的方式呢就是希望有一個大數據有一個"},{"start":21862.961,"end":21865.282,"text":"為什麼會先從無照駕駛開始談起?因為未成年無照駕駛"},{"start":21888.01,"end":21908.423,"text":"的交通致死率事實上是成年人的三倍所以我們就來談一下未成年無照駕駛的問題那這一張數據這張圖表可以看到我們機車傷亡的人數這幾年大概略略持平表示呢沒有實質的改善那在這邊我要提醒交通部兩件事情"},{"start":21908.854,"end":21934.076,"text":"我們的機車乘客死傷人數107年跟111年相差1157人,增加了1157人那微型電動二輪車呢也107年跟111年比相差兩倍所以我覺得江部這兩塊也要特別的去做努力那再來就是未成年無照駕駛根據我們的運營所的數據也就是每一個"},{"start":21935.151,"end":21953.007,"text":"民眾車禍死亡那社會成本是1600萬元那每一個車禍受傷社會成本是118萬元如果用這個數據整體來推估的話那我們平均下來每一年因為未成年無照駕駛"},{"start":21954.423,"end":21977.849,"text":"造成什麼?造成社會成本有160億跟無數的破碎家庭所以這個行政院應該也要特別去注意到這個問題不是只有談到的事上是我們的吹聲的一些策略在那再來就是現行無照駕駛看起來是讓解方效果不夠為什麼?"},{"start":21978.482,"end":21997.568,"text":"今天取締的件數增加但為什麼事實上是交通事故依然沒有下降所以可不可以請我們的王部長可不可以說明一下簡單說明一下一切我們現在比如說以這個考照是18歲以上所以有很多這個還不到這個年齡沒辦法考那就開始起"},{"start":21998.308,"end":22020.632,"text":"我講這部分應該兩個方面一個是我們是覺得過去我們是用宣導的方式就是從學校或是社會的宣導那第二個當然就是直畫面來處理但是我們感覺是從學校比如說高中高中最多嘛這方面來宣導這個效果會比較大那這部分教育部也事實上有跟我們在做相關的這個宣導的一個工作那的確"},{"start":22021.716,"end":22048.871,"text":"這個無照駕駛是一個大課題有一個是這個年幼另外一個是年長的也有無照駕駛兩個部分我希望部長可能要重視這一塊那一樣的就是我們來看到我們的自殺的這個狀態那0到17歲自殺的原因有所謂的憂鬱傾向家庭成員的問題跟學校適應的問題可是一樣我們的自殺不減反增未來我會在其他相關的委員會在座諮詢"},{"start":22050.11,"end":22077.974,"text":"這是人本基金會整理的相關的一些問題點不過還有這麼多的問題點表示我們政府部門還有很多的努力空間這一樣我也不細談可是從交通事故跟自殺案件的死亡數高居不下我們應該要有反思也就是如果確實政府的確現在可以給我們大數據所以我們才知道事故傷害第一、自殺第二"},{"start":22079.123,"end":22100.81,"text":"重點是我們缺乏細緻的原因因為始終每次在交通事故的時候都說這個事實上是我們的駕駛人造勢了那就兩方去打官司可是有沒有去研析究竟是我們的道路設計問題還是我們的交通設施不良還是駕駛者有情緒狀態或者是他疲勞駕駛"},{"start":22104.291,"end":22131.353,"text":"或者事實上是他有沒有吃感冒藥這相關的問題並沒有好好的檢討可是如果不知道細緻的原因解放打不到痛點那我們的預算也沒有花在刀口上那政府就是事半功倍所以預防勝於治療我們要知道細緻的原因我們就應該要來做死因回溯所以我們就來談死因回溯"},{"start":22131.963,"end":22159.989,"text":"所以請教一下院長你知道什麼是死因回溯嗎?知道法源依據嗎?哦 知道啊那我不知道院長知不知道法源依據在兒犬法裡面是沒有錯兒犬法第13條那為什麼要去談這個因為做好我們的知道原因死亡就可以預防而且有事成的預防效果其中事故傷害、自殺"},{"start":22160.956,"end":22163.497,"text":"施政方針及施政報告至10時50分為處理臨時提案時間"},{"start":22189.812,"end":22217.579,"text":"針對這一塊要多所努力接下來我們看兩個數據這事實上是交通部提供的我們的無照駕駛死亡集中在15到17歲所以我請大家要看清楚15到17歲那自殺呢12到17歲那13到15歲呢情況比較嚴峻那從這些數據那我們就要來問一下院長"},{"start":22219.334,"end":22236.7,"text":"你知道目前我們的死因回溯做到幾歲嗎?我不太清楚。我不知道衛福部部長知道我們的死因回溯做到幾歲嗎?其實現在是比較年幼的,我記得應該是來6歲。如果按照法規的確做到6歲,"},{"start":22240.131,"end":22265.62,"text":"我們再回想一下剛才無照駕駛集中在15到17歲我們的智商集中在12到17歲如果我們的死因回溯只做幼稚園那我們的死亡兒少死亡比較占比比較高的事實上是國中生高中生似乎我們沒有切中要害因為我個人過去一直很常會要去看數據"},{"start":22266.448,"end":22269.452,"text":"因為常常數據會說話讓我們了解真正的問題點那在這邊真的就要請我個人"},{"start":22277.984,"end":22301.816,"text":"人主張是第一個死因回溯可不可以擴大到18歲所以希望這個會期就能夠來修法不過我們也期待就是在未修法之前如果少子化是我們這麼重要的問題的話我希望衛福部是不是可以先行執行這兩塊也就是交通跟自殺先來做死因回溯我們必須要知道細緻的原因"},{"start":22302.376,"end":22321.75,"text":"才會提出來更好的解方。當然我們也期待說這死因回溯不是只有上修到18歲以外,但未來我覺得衛福部這邊對於項目方式跟中央主管機關應該到民定調查報告要怎麼做。我不知道部長今年可以做得到嗎?"},{"start":22323.265,"end":22338.376,"text":"其實這有一部分的困難第一個困難就是在做指引回溯的時候你必須要足夠的一些報告那這個報告的話有時候會就是說涉及到驗屍的問題"},{"start":22340.097,"end":22340.437,"text":"可是我說交通"},{"start":22369.437,"end":22374.839,"text":"院長,如果你看這個死亡回溯表格,你乍看之下有什麼不足的地方?"},{"start":22394.312,"end":22412.772,"text":"目前的話指引回溯是地方政府在做,我們在做協助,訓練他們,那可以各個地方政府都可以有能力去做這個指引回溯。這個表格如果中央是全統一的話根本不用這種打勾勾的表格,該怎麼做就怎麼做。"},{"start":22413.26,"end":22427.984,"text":"尤其是洪志的部分你一定相關辦法跟實施要點就應該是中央直接訂定來避免中央最後要收整資料的時候還大家格式不同、做法不同。我也希望這會期一樣同樣來做改善。我覺得這蠻重要的。"},{"start":22433.485,"end":22450.344,"text":"本席主張二、也就是希望有一個標準化的一個流程來進行。為什麼要標準化?因為有標準化我們才有辦法建立資料庫。那英國的兒童死亡資料庫成立的宗旨就很明確地告訴我們說我們要確保人們從"},{"start":22451.966,"end":22464.995,"text":"孩子的死亡中學習到教訓所以資料庫是一個累積讓專家可以有一個清楚的依據然後最後我們能夠成立中心然後提出比較好的預防方案所以我們就來看英國的狀況"},{"start":22465.953,"end":22493.41,"text":"那英國呢他的死亡每一個都做死亡回溯那可以看到這數據可以看到本來3595個個案下降了下降到2724可是可修正的原因也就找出來可改變的原因從28%成長到37%意味著死因回溯有他的功效在的話那應該要來努力這一塊那"},{"start":22496.038,"end":22517.957,"text":"我們的錢不是很少,還少得可憐。死因回溯呢,拿到的經費目前大概370萬。若我們未來要投資在改善交通,要投入到400億,對青少年自殺,衛福部也提出了一年三次免費心理諮商,預算來到2880萬的時候。可是死因回溯這麼重要的事情,只編了這樣的經費預算。這個議題我關心了好幾年。"},{"start":22522.401,"end":22549.503,"text":"我想真正救孩子的一命所以部長不知道人命無價的時候我們到底可不可以提高今年就提高我們的案件數預算也提高跟委員報告目前的話就如同剛剛所報告那現在是在6歲以下那依法要去做水銀回溯所以以現在編的預算的話是針對6歲以下的那這一個部分的話我們是責成由國會議院這邊來主導這個"},{"start":22561.038,"end":22564.02,"text":"非常謝謝林委員月行的質詢也謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第40號盧委員憲一質詢"},{"start":22596.298,"end":22619.265,"text":"請陳院長我請陳院長麻煩請陳院長備詢盧委員晚安,恭喜你當選立委謝謝陳院長我先用族語介紹你是誰我先用族語跟族人介紹你是誰我先用族語跟族人介紹你是誰"},{"start":22625.472,"end":22631.455,"text":"今天我要討論的主題是關於著重在原住民的問題那因為原住民的問題很多那就比著重在交通跟醫療還有一些我們的民生問題"},{"start":22655.563,"end":22684.956,"text":"運動員的問題先請問目前在原鄉山地原住民地區原鄉的公車的使用率是多少使用率還是涵蓋率涵蓋率我們現在初步已經到九成了因為那個當然是班次還是不足但是基本上的那個大概九成我在我幾乎都生產在原鄉而且是"},{"start":22685.745,"end":22705.898,"text":"大部分的服務的地點是在原鄉那我看到的班次當然是太少的問題第一個第二個是因為現在是著重環保的年代不過看到的車子還是大型車輛他沒有我覺得他應該要因為乘客的人數跟道路的使用應該要"},{"start":22707.247,"end":22731.276,"text":"要做一個modify,不是永遠都是那麼大的車在那麼小的路上行駛,不是嗎?對不對?這個有,這個包括中型跟我們現在幸福巴士是用九輪坐,這個現在都有在進行中型。請問一下現在幸福巴士坐的最好的箱是哪幾個箱?現在很多都坐的還你覺得最好的?或者是你覺得前幾名的箱?堅持箱坐得不錯,堅持箱有12條。"},{"start":22733.076,"end":22761.645,"text":"那像屏東,屏東像霧台那邊也有,有的是用那個計程車去轉的,有的是用一般九人座還有中巴去轉的。對,沒有錯,因為現在原住民地區居住的地方都是非常偏遠,所以幸福巴士來得很重要。那我去看過,我覺得目前住的最好的是濁西鄉跟春日鄉。都不錯。希望部長如果你有機會看的話,如果他們住的特別好的地方應該擴展到全省的原住民地區。"},{"start":22763.045,"end":22788.493,"text":"讓長者在接送或者是就業的時候,他們能夠得到便利性,可以嗎?以他們做模範來擴展到全省。我們希望其他的地區能夠跟這一些好的來學習。那捷運呢?有三地原住民地區有捷運嗎?因為我們現在…倒數你是零,倒數道路有嗎?"},{"start":22789.599,"end":22815.88,"text":"快速道路應該有快速道路有嗎?快速道路有的經過我告訴你是零三地原住民地區因為我們必須分層級我要告訴你說以上除了公車有以外捷運快速道路跟國道我們原住民地區都沒有辦法享受到現在是2024年當然我們這樣講是緣木求雨"},{"start":22817.409,"end":22846.922,"text":"我一直都在想什麼時候國道6號可以到花蓮什麼時候國道10號可以延伸到至少到甲仙對不對然後我們屏東我住在屏東是不是屏東有一個國道或者是快速道路可以到墾丁我們永遠都在想每次增長輪替的時候他就會畫一條線從潮州畫到經過枋寮或者說經過園鄉的地區沿山公路上面然後畫到"},{"start":22847.862,"end":22868.357,"text":"發到肯定說快要做了,要發包了。結果每次選完就沒有人在談這個問題。我們住在屏東八十幾萬人口,花東一條快速道路也沒有。我們只能看著人家在走快速道路跟不到。西部已經有26、80,從62110到88的快速道路,多得不得了了。"},{"start":22868.988,"end":22885.405,"text":"可是我們原住民地區完全一條快速道路都沒有,所以至少花東快速道路應該要趕快執行。我想請問一下花東快速道路什麼時候要做?八月那個可行性報告會出來,今年八月可行性會出來。"},{"start":22885.825,"end":22904.815,"text":"我剛才跟委員報告就剛才你提到的就是偏鄉當然你如果講捷運或是快速到那個偏鄉這個因為我們有分對我知道我只是要做一個比較對骨幹比如說骨幹你說像花蓮花蓮現在包括我們蘇阿安蘇阿改在做事實上它旁邊有很多這個"},{"start":22906.156,"end":22921.156,"text":"我比較想知道快速道路什麼時候可以實施,就是花東快速道路,我知道已經核定了嘛。委員現在是這樣,我們在做任何的道路的建設都會先有可行性評估,可行性評估完了以後再有這個綜合規劃。"},{"start":22922.418,"end":22926.019,"text":"希望在我有生之年可以看到花東快速道路因為我是屏東人我跟花蓮的人結婚可是這已經結婚20多年了我還沒有看到我只要"},{"start":22952.438,"end":22969.612,"text":"只要車子一過潮之後以後我就開始享受野蠻人的生活。這個屏東﹐屏南的部分剛才委員所提的這個可信已完成了。那我樂觀騎乘我希望能夠看到至少是動工好嗎?"},{"start":22973.042,"end":22998.208,"text":"我們這個工作也跟委員做一個報告實際上中央跟地方政府要一起來努力因為有些可行性評估還意見我們什麼地方政府會回我們意見明白其實因為我很關心道路第二個就是我們原住民鄉鎮的道路他不僅沒有進步而是解邊"},{"start":22999.946,"end":23019.592,"text":"解編會造成他沒有經費可以來維修,來維護,那當初在解編的時候有沒有一個配套措施?解編是在於地方政府,他是限到他認為他成績不夠要往鄉鎮,這地方政府"},{"start":23021.067,"end":23022.848,"text":"我們一般是尊重地方政府的決定"},{"start":23051.247,"end":23051.828,"text":"我建議你去掌音"},{"start":23066.578,"end":23072.522,"text":"委員 我是不是請那個圓明會的主委跟路維補充報告的確有一些線道相當後來解編到圓明的特色部落道路這個部分那過去幾年我們的預算的確不太夠不過也要謝謝交通部"},{"start":23093.437,"end":23113.557,"text":"從去年開始那個養護費的費用有編列到我們這個地方來有1億6千多萬的費用是全國的全國住民地區的費用根本就不夠啊我們有多少個鄉鎮無數個鄉鎮所以說1億多一個鄉可以分多少錢兩百多萬吧"},{"start":23114.588,"end":23118.771,"text":"我希望經費能夠多一點在維護方面,而且是農路,主要的連外道路,不然發生事故也都是因為路不好,不是嗎?是嗎?"},{"start":23134.517,"end":23135.057,"text":"我希望能夠編多一點預算給園民會好嗎?"},{"start":23162.485,"end":23188.734,"text":"這個委員是這樣像這一些解編的道路呢是實際上是地方政府嘛因為他要負責主題市所以呢他需要來提出相關的計畫那我們看看地方政府執行的情形我們就會來做滾動的檢討沒有關係那我再繼續追我們農路跟我們鄉鎮道路的安全性請他們提出相關的這個計畫那我們下一個主題是健康平權"},{"start":23194.261,"end":23223.116,"text":"大家都知道在原住民地區尤其是山地原住民地區都是衛生所在照顧我們的族人那衛生所從我91年服務到去年退休他的人員編制從來沒有改變過我希望如果所謂的升級是從我們的組織改造來做起當然我們就應該是先從第四項來看第五項來看就是第四項來看就是設立"},{"start":23223.899,"end":23250.845,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":23252.113,"end":23280.152,"text":"一名護士也就是說如果這個像是6個村就是6名護士正式人員他要掌管非常多的事情疫情來的時候管疫情平常的時候要防癌然後登革日來的時候要管登革日然後平常的一些行政業務他也要管然後今天要行政宣言他也要跟著去行政宣言然後晚上還要值班隔天還要上班那到底我們這樣的人力夠不夠"},{"start":23280.913,"end":23285.775,"text":"我希望在這個部分能夠幫我們確保說我們衛生所確實可以升級因為這是我在參選的時候跟很多主任在說的能夠打動他們內心的一個訴求"},{"start":23307.202,"end":23336.178,"text":"真正在照顧他們都是我們衛生所的醫護人員跟他們生活在一起那我希望這個組織改造裡面能夠原漢的比例能夠做一個適當的一個法律上面的規定如果不是會講母語不知道文化的人去那邊做一些服務的話可能在文化敏感度的部分還有對長者的關懷會有落差所以以後在做這方面的時候一定要強調這個第二個就是說我們不僅升級是講"},{"start":23336.783,"end":23359.292,"text":"﹗"},{"start":23359.906,"end":23361.887,"text":"首先跟委員報告,在民國97年的時候,我們的原住民的平均移民跟全國是差了9.04歲。"},{"start":23385.865,"end":23393.912,"text":"那到111年的時候,那內政部的統計看起來有改善,所以現在的差距大概在6.19歲,所以這其實是差距已經有縮短,這是第一點。"},{"start":23405.959,"end":23434.535,"text":"第二點的話那有關於衛生所的這一個部分的話那目前我們有兩個計畫一個計畫的話我們正在送行政院這邊就是偏鄉的醫療改善計畫那個第二期那這個部分就有涉及到衛生所的一些改建、擴建等等那第二個就是說有關於這個衛生所的人力的配置的問題那也跟委員報告因為這個是屬於地方的權責但是我們在"},{"start":23435.054,"end":23464.157,"text":"去年的時候已經提出來一個建議的一個方向那其中有一個部分的話剛剛委員有提到過在行政的工作上面的話我們希望就是由縣市政府來承擔派人來承擔不要讓衛生所的過去公衛護士都要同時要去處理這個主計、人事等等這些去兼辦這些這些我們希望是把它取消而讓它實際上去做公共衛生跟醫療的一個服務"},{"start":23465.377,"end":23482.916,"text":"還有特別要說的是我們一直在發展觀光可是在偏遠地區連就業都那麼困難的時候我們要怎麼樣來保障我們遊客的安全所以把衛生室升級成至少是一個小型的急診室也是一個勢在必行"},{"start":23483.556,"end":23507.684,"text":"不然你一直在推觀光,萬一晚上發生什麼事情才來處理。而且原住民地區都離都市要一兩個小時以上,夜路又有懸崖,你也不能開快,對不對?第三個就是,第二個就是原住民免部分負擔跟提高他的交通補助。就是我在原住民地區看病的時候是不用錢的。"},{"start":23508.618,"end":23521.923,"text":"我這個身份是不用錢的,我們的健保代碼是68可是我這個原罪名我如果跑到高雄來看病我就必須負部分負擔那就是說他是看地區而不是看人所以我是覺得說應該要"},{"start":23523.905,"end":23524.486,"text":"免部分負擔"},{"start":23541.194,"end":23568.29,"text":"這個部分的話跟委員報告交通補助是本來就有的。可是沒有調整過。但是如果針對一個身份去做所謂的不分負擔的免除的話,這可能要從長計議。沒關係,我在未還我在修法看看,看看有沒有同仁可以一起幫忙。那我們一直在講免繳健保費也是很多委員有提過,我就不再贅述。"},{"start":23568.939,"end":23593.898,"text":"那就是他最後一項就是長者的智慧手錶如果這個可以通過其實很多我們偏鄉地區不不只是原鄉地區的一些獨居的老人家就可以可以使用到因為其實大部分的老人家都是獨居所以他們在家裡我們要怎麼知道他們到底安不安全如果有一個可以監測至少監測他的生命真相可以定位他在哪裡的時候"},{"start":23594.448,"end":23619.056,"text":"我們很多年輕人在外面工作的會比較放心。我們是不是可以朝這個方向來努力?各位報告,這個部分的話我們有兩個計畫在進行。第一個是在花蓮豐濱,那由慈濟醫院來執行的,來協助執行。另外一個計畫是在臺東的…這是在哪一個市?是哪一個市在東?是…應該是我們的衣服會啦。衣服會。衣服會。"},{"start":23620.307,"end":23639.185,"text":"那在封兵跟那個成功,那是由我們部立台東醫院來執行的。所以現在正在進行。我現在有提到原住民醫療,最主要是想說原住民在沒有"},{"start":23640.18,"end":23642.002,"text":"我相信對我們長者在使用醫療的時候他的意願會更高。"},{"start":23666.723,"end":23680.928,"text":"這部分我們的中醫藥師有在進行這一部分的一個工作。那我們進行下一個主題就是我們的免巴斯量表。免巴斯量表不僅對我們族人來說是也可以免去它的崩潰,對很多我們國人來講也是這樣。"},{"start":23684.048,"end":23712.883,"text":"所以這一個我會在我的至少在這個胃環這邊會努力的推出來然後希望大家能夠來認可這個提議好不好。這個部分的話事實上就如同剛剛委員提到的那這個我們的多元評估的方式已經開始推動那目前的話當然人數可能不是很多也就是說使用到這三類的那大概有6000多人。我知道我大概有算過"},{"start":23713.863,"end":23741.003,"text":"我們再來看自來水的普及率這是我到每一個原住民地區都會遇到的問題我們不是住在海邊就是住在溪流邊不然就是住在深山看到水卻不能好好的用水那不覺得這是一個很辛苦的一件事情嗎所以我就去查了一下我們的普及率就是你看一下"},{"start":23741.55,"end":23761.103,"text":"目前3地原住民地區還是只有不到40%,那如果是減益自來水加起來也不到8成,那就反觀我們都會區都是在96%以上,那我是覺得我們至少我們有沒有一個進程或者說你的一個規劃有要怎麼來完成這個普及率?"},{"start":23761.854,"end":23763.035,"text":"我想知道說一年的大概編的那個經費是多少?"},{"start":23786.652,"end":23808.888,"text":"現在的部分比如說113年的部分在原鄉的部分也是有好幾億的這個經費來增加但是也要跟委員報告因為真的是很分散所以接管上因為水的使用其實是跟我們的身體健康是有很大的影響那我們最近會去提明年度的預算再提四年計劃"},{"start":23810.028,"end":23835.83,"text":"我們現在同仁有再跟相關的原住民專家來討論還有什麼其他的比較創新的方法讓這個原住民的地區可以比較多的一個好的水來使用那這個我們目前正在規劃當中那因為院裡面的3、4月要提出來所以可能規劃的方向也會在這個裡面會呈現我還是會請辦公室繼續追這個事情是是是謝謝"},{"start":23839.782,"end":23866.176,"text":"最後一項是關於我們照顧原住民運動員的一個問題大家都知道說我們常常在代表我們國家的優秀運動員裡面我們的就選手數來說就人口比例來講我們是確實是佔了很優勢的一個位置不過我們常常在看我們的年輕的運動員常常是因為"},{"start":23867.13,"end":23891.556,"text":"家庭經濟藝術還要四處打工,有的時候是因為去打工了騎摩托車結果在路上就受傷了就不能再練習。那我期望就是說至少在七運或者是亞運或者是有些世界級的比賽的時候如果得到前三名的運動員就可以平時我們可以規劃他應該有每個月的營養費。"},{"start":23894.364,"end":23904.171,"text":"至少有教練費或者是買他衣服買他鞋子啊或者是一些相關的設備或者是他出國比賽的時候一些津貼你們有這樣的規劃嗎"},{"start":23907.198,"end":23934.16,"text":"謝謝委員,確實委員所提到的我們最近的亞運光我們原民的選手啊,佔的比例就將近20%,得到很好的成績啦,這個為國爭光。那我跟委員報告,現在目前對原住民族選手的部分,因為我們也特別考量一些措施啦,當然這個裡面也包含我們對於他們從基層開始的這種優秀的選訓。目前我知道的"},{"start":23934.62,"end":23935.22,"text":"委員提到他已經是我們列為國家國首的"},{"start":23960.655,"end":23962.076,"text":"如果再聽到說有國手去兼差打工呢?"},{"start":23985.693,"end":24012.621,"text":"所以我就說如果剛才我剛報告的,如果他已經進到類似我們國慶中心左營的這個國慶中心,這個基本上要去打工的機會應該是很少。不需要。對,對,應該是不需要。我是指如果他是得到比如說區運賽的前三名,你們有這樣的規劃嗎?這部分可能還沒有,因為全國中等學校運動會啦,類似這個情況,那個還不到這裡。我最希望原民會這邊可以考量。"},{"start":24013.874,"end":24014.495,"text":"國際性的比賽我們都會有一些獎勵金"},{"start":24029.787,"end":24051.667,"text":"是,我是覺得按照名次給獎勵是不夠的。我希望能夠從我剛才所提的這些面向給他們實質上的、生活上的幫忙。而譬如家長還要釋出張羅他的生活,選手他還要考慮父母親的感受,結果到最後就完全都沒有辦法再繼續訓練。這是我的對你的建議,可以嗎?"},{"start":24053.888,"end":24055.229,"text":"非常感謝盧縣委員、縣議的質詢也謝謝陳院長的答詢接下來我們請登記第41位"},{"start":24083.213,"end":24109.649,"text":"禮儀委員：坤哲質詢。謝謝主席。先請陳建仁院長以及管碧玲主委。"},{"start":24110.658,"end":24134.429,"text":"再請陳院長管主委備詢。院長好。針對海巡署查緝金門三五船舶不幸的事件,中國協商代表及家屬在今日稍早已經離開臺灣。在離開臺灣之前,"},{"start":24138.291,"end":24159.374,"text":"代表團的團長依然指責臺灣撞擊大陸漁船這是惡性的事件跟說臺灣方面否認事實謊話連篇設置各種障礙推卸責任說臺灣沒有協商誠意後果要民進黨負責"},{"start":24161.192,"end":24175.211,"text":"院長跟主委,臺灣是民主法治的社會,主委有責任啦,必須開誠布公,清楚地說明相關的協商的過程。來先請主委說明一下。好,謝謝委員,跟委員報告。"},{"start":24176.672,"end":24200.917,"text":"剛剛我們也聽到對這件事情的定位雙方的落差是非常大的那我主要說明四點第一點因為我們是民主法治的國家所以從事件發生開始持續的協商甚至於未來的協商我們都堅持說這件事情一定要把事實交給客觀、中立、獨立的司法機關調查以後才可以釐清責任"},{"start":24201.457,"end":24224.213,"text":"只要責任一釐清我們絕對會勿妄勿縱這是第一點我們的基本立場第二點在司法調查需要時間司法調查釐清真相之前我們願意優先撫慰家屬對家屬做關懷所以我們願意盡最大的誠意也非常努力的進行溝通對家屬表達誠摯的關懷並且提供實質的"},{"start":24236.257,"end":24251.701,"text":"﹚第三點是我們為了表達我們處理這件事情最大的誠意發生這樣的事情我們非常的遺憾也知道家屬的痛苦所以我們首先對於道歉的部分安排海巡署的許副署長"},{"start":24252.321,"end":24266.227,"text":"介由記者會公開對於沒有錄影帶及時迅速的讓家屬跟社會來了解事實真相的部分我們對社會表達公開的道歉。我也指派我們海巡署的署長到"},{"start":24267.668,"end":24268.668,"text":"第4點是家屬所關心的遺體"},{"start":24296.613,"end":24296.713,"text":"﹚發言委員："},{"start":24326.973,"end":24347.294,"text":"府衛安定亡靈跟府衛家屬的方式做了非常多的努力我們的同仁安置了靈堂做法會然後給予祭拜持續不斷各界的府衛的慰問也紛紛而來今天發生這樣的情況的發展我們感到非常的遺憾"},{"start":24347.974,"end":24350.234,"text":"陳院長也請你說明一下行政院對這一個不幸事件的態度。我想這一個對於大陸的"},{"start":24378.187,"end":24397.759,"text":"三、五的快艇進入我們的境縣制海域。我們的海巡署的同仁從事這個相關的這個查緝跟驅離的這個動作是依法在辦理。但是我們對於發生了這個不幸的這個逆避的事件我們是感到相當的遺憾所以我們就請"},{"start":24399.359,"end":24412.926,"text":"海委會跟海巡署一起來跟我們這些受難者還有他的家屬來做很好的這個溝通那我們也希望能夠像剛才我們"},{"start":24414.531,"end":24428.888,"text":"主委講的希望給予最好的這個護衛但是臺灣是一個自由民主法治的國家那所有的事件發生以後的這些證據呢當然就是需要按照這個檢察官這個偵查"},{"start":24430.845,"end":24430.965,"text":"﹚發言委員﹚"},{"start":24451.58,"end":24453.901,"text":"接下來我們就要針對勞工的議題來請教陳建仁院長。"},{"start":24478.018,"end":24497.752,"text":"老保不是一般的保險,它是國家重要的保險。在2023年年底,依據勞保局的資料,勞保的勞工朋友有1039萬人,它是國家重要的保險。當然在過去有所謂的勞保的財務危機的狀況,讓勞工"},{"start":24503.218,"end":24523.436,"text":"內心有徬徨認為說勞保是不是財務有狀況那在陳聰擔任院長以及王如璇擔任主委的時候勞動勞委會主委的時候我們清楚的提出政府要撥補以及國家最終支付責任那現在政府有連續的撥補"},{"start":24524.83,"end":24531.032,"text":"從2020年編了200億、2021年編了220億、2022年編了300億、2023年編了750億,這是加上特別預算。今年陳建成院長也站在保障勞工權益的立場,編了1200億。我請教一下陳院長,"},{"start":24546.867,"end":24574.487,"text":"會不會持續撥補金額會不會比今年1200億多來陳院長說明一下好謝謝委員剛才說明實際上為了要讓勞保能夠基金能夠永續政府當然是會繼續來撥補因為這一個剛才也講得很清楚政府要負最後的幾副責任那我們也會來按照這個基金變動的情形該撥補多少才會能夠讓基金能夠永續"},{"start":24575.708,"end":24575.989,"text":"一點會不會持續的撥補?會。"},{"start":24578.895,"end":24606.776,"text":"會不會比今年的1200億多那就要看看我們那個基金的情況那按照目前支領的人越來越多的情況下應該是會增加所以勞保除了政府的撥補以外我們確實需要對勞保的永續來提出一個更新的一個好的方案這個部分勞保的相關的撥補仍然要持續而且對勞保基金的投資效益也必須要提高徐部長簡單說明一下"},{"start":24608.993,"end":24633.778,"text":"跟委員報告有關於撥補的部分或者說安心條款就是政府負責任我想這個部分我們這個安心條款一直都是做這樣的規劃這沒有問題那投資效益的部分其實這幾年的整個基金的投資尤其勞保基金像去年的投資收益到14.44%我們去年的整個收益"},{"start":24634.138,"end":24635.078,"text":"徐部長現在政府持續的撥補"},{"start":24660.68,"end":24678.659,"text":"然後也一再的向社會宣示這是國家最終支付責任但是我一再的要求要必須明文入法勞保條例第69條這是下一個階段讓勞工能夠安心的重要的一個安心的條款這個部分來說明一下"},{"start":24679.119,"end":24684.463,"text":"接下來我們要討論的是有關於職災的問題部長我們每年大概有5萬件的相關職災的問題那職災對於勞工的生活"},{"start":24705.515,"end":24725.095,"text":"家庭的這樣的一個重要的資助的衝擊是非常的大每年大概有5萬件那這兩年因為受到疫情的影響啊成長到6萬至8萬件因為除了職災之外職業病像受到COVID-19的這個影響也都列入相關的這個職業病裡面"},{"start":24727.537,"end":24755.065,"text":"我們來看到我們現在目前一家的要求我們現在的專責醫院有17家本來是有15家現在增加到17家我們的網絡醫院本來有89家現在因為有兩家身為專責醫院有一家因為他的業務關係所以他就取消了現在有86家那我們一家的要求"},{"start":24756.226,"end":24778.807,"text":"在短期之內必須要增加專責醫院跟網絡醫院那這個階段等一下再請部長來說明一下那中層的目標我們希望是每一個行政區至少要有一個網絡醫院或者是專責醫院那接下來就是希望能夠成立勞工醫院"},{"start":24780.56,"end":24789.232,"text":"部長你也清楚網絡醫院主要處理醫療跟認定有關職災職業病的醫療跟認定專責醫院是負責醫療認定還有通報的相關責任"},{"start":24797.967,"end":24815.933,"text":"那我們對於這種短中長期的勞工的醫療的這種保障現在進展如何來說明一下是跟委員報告我們為了要讓我們的勞工在整個醫療就是說發生職災在整治方面或復健方面"},{"start":24816.613,"end":24846.613,"text":"﹗"},{"start":24846.953,"end":24849.814,"text":"必須要增加專責醫院跟網絡醫院就是經由專責醫院或者是網絡醫院對於勞工"},{"start":24874.133,"end":24900.389,"text":"職災職業病的相關的診斷是免診療費那另外啊他們的相關的資料就直接可以來申請相關的給付所以這個對勞工的權利啊部長我是要提醒你職災五萬件啊再加上職業病啊有六至八萬件這個是社會啊大家對勞工的權利啊都非常的重視認為啊必須要有效的降低相關的職災的事件"},{"start":24901.445,"end":24927.727,"text":"而且對勞工的醫療必須更為精進那像我一再提的勞工醫院這個希望部長要做一個長期的目標的一個規劃尤其是高雄是勞工的都市那另外我們對於產檢架的議題在2014年我提案修正性貧乏讓女性的勞工上班族有產檢架"},{"start":24929.707,"end":24942.013,"text":"到2021 二零二一年我再度的修法將五天提升為七天那我們相關的單位國建署也將產檢的補助也提升到十四次"},{"start":24942.659,"end":24964.93,"text":"那就是說讓他有半天的這樣的一個至少半天的時間可以去做產檢那公務員現在的產前假他們有8天啊來可以作為相關的這樣的一個不管是產檢也好或相關的一些準備的這樣的一個狀況那這個部分我先請教一下衛福部"},{"start":24965.913,"end":24979.307,"text":"我們相關的產前健檢我們一般都說有14次的這樣的一個產檢的補助那其實啊運賦來說除了14次是最基本的補助的項目之外"},{"start":24980.083,"end":24992.431,"text":"大概還要有4至6項的項目是必須要自費的請教一下部長我們14次的這個產檢的補助會提升到20次嗎?"},{"start":24992.431,"end":25008.041,"text":"來說明一下政府有這樣的規劃嗎?目前的14次大概還算是夠啦因為這也不需要說一個禮拜就去檢查一次這是不需要的所以要看這個小孩子胎兒的一個變化的話其實是"},{"start":25011.764,"end":25026.12,"text":"徐部長,我們針對勞工,院長也清楚,現在少子化,我們對勞工必須要有更進一步的保障。相關的產檢價在目前7天,我們希望能夠提升為10天。來,部長簡單說明一下。"},{"start":25028.578,"end":25029.679,"text":"接下來我們請登記第42號徐委員與曾質詢"},{"start":25062.85,"end":25064.231,"text":"主席請院長謝謝麻煩再請陳院長備詢徐委員午安恭喜你當選立委謝謝謝謝院長"},{"start":25078.235,"end":25104.494,"text":"院長您自詡為是溫暖的內閣那這個是我在我競選時候的slogan叫做溫暖堅毅所以說我也期許自己擔任立法委員之後呢要提出一些服國立民的法案讓人民覺得溫暖所以接下來我所要探討幾個議題喔如果能夠得到院長的支持的話相信一定也能夠讓人民覺得溫暖所以院長能不能夠支持我呢"},{"start":25105.421,"end":25131.083,"text":"好當然我來聽聽看你的這個寶貴的意見也希望我們都能夠是一個讓人民感到溫暖跟堅定的建議剛剛有關講到剛剛李委員有特別在質詢這個管主委還有提到說請陳院長在說明有關金門的這個翻船案的一個這個撞船的一個事件的執法過程跟釐清的一個目前處理的狀況"},{"start":25131.943,"end":25150.516,"text":"我聽到院長講到該道歉的就道歉我覺得這個是讓我覺得非常的欣慰因為其實我們不管有怎麼樣的一個執法的過程只要有錯誤就勇於承認那我想昨天在我們內政委員會就是因為針對這個金門的翻船案沒有影像"},{"start":25151.311,"end":25177.552,"text":"然後沒有辦法說明真相所以說大家各說各話雖然昨天一度有傳出周梅武署長說真的有影像那已經叫給剪掉了那當然雖然說事後說是雷達影像但是呢我想在這過程中其實我們昨天爭議的點不是在我們對海巡署有意見我們非常支持海巡署的執法我們有意見的是管主委不該篡改我們專報的題目"},{"start":25180.439,"end":25208.004,"text":"我們金門翻船案昨天開這個專報就是為了讓海巡署讓海委會來釐清真相讓他們有個說明的機會結果因為昨天的管主委不肯道歉而有這樣子的一個浪費了前面30分鐘的時間所以我覺得管主委如果能夠像院長一樣該道歉就道歉我相信這個事件應該要有根據我剛才講的就是說我們司法偵查完了我們來按照這樣的方式"},{"start":25208.604,"end":25211.084,"text":"請院長,您知道這個TPAS通勤月票的政策嗎?您知道嗎?"},{"start":25242.473,"end":25264.965,"text":"為什麼一開始只有雙北在做這樣子的一個政策?我不清楚當時雙北為什麼會做這樣的政策但是在2022年的選舉的時候我們北北基桃的候選人都有提出來TPAC這樣的一個想法就是說由這個四個城市一起來共用這一個"},{"start":25265.265,"end":25282.095,"text":"我來告訴院長當時是在2018年的時候新北市政府的朱立倫市長跟臺北市政府的柯文哲市長為了鼓勵民眾來多多利用的這個大眾運輸系統所以共同的提出了這個運輸定期票每月1280的這樣的一個政策"},{"start":25283.803,"end":25302.725,"text":"那每年需要補貼9億4千多萬給相關的業者那陳榮剛剛院長講的在2022年的時候9和1的選舉不管是國民黨、民進黨、民眾黨的候選人都有提出來這個北北基討的這個聯合的這個提出在1200的這個月票的問題"},{"start":25303.459,"end":25319.57,"text":"那跨縣市的交通月票的共同政見那所以呢我想每個月每年需要這個經費大概是35億當時行政院就承諾會立即辦理那由中央補助政府來落實交通平權的這樣子的一個概念"},{"start":25320.12,"end":25333.366,"text":"那2023年7月1日也這個擴大到全國施行目前有11個區域就可以在這個我的簡報檔上看到11個區域有通勤月票而且由行政院全面的來補貼解決一國兩個制度的問題"},{"start":25336.604,"end":25364.338,"text":"所以在這邊本席要給院長一個鼓勵確實這是很好的一個交通平權的一個政策那院長您知道這個通勤月票的政策只能夠做幾年嗎目前我們的預算是編到114年但是很多的民眾都覺得這是一個很好的政策而且呢也能夠使民眾除了交通上方便又可能可以節能減碳而且呢減少空氣污染所以在"},{"start":25365.078,"end":25392.64,"text":"我們中央政府這一邊在計畫快結束的時候我們一定會再考慮未來怎麼樣來延長信義民意。跟院長報告我們預算目前編列三年嘛那一年大概需要六十幾億所以三年大概需要兩百億所以既然是為了落實交通平權也是一個好的政策所以請院長能夠繼續支持這個計畫的進行接下來要請教這個計畫是還滿成功的現在有3.65億人次謝謝那我們就好的計畫我們就繼續讓他執行"},{"start":25395.124,"end":25409.401,"text":"另外,剛剛是講交通平權,現在我要請教的院長是您贊不贊成支不支持大陸籍配偶跟外籍配偶年限一樣,一樣是4年的時間來落實我們人權的平權。"},{"start":25412.41,"end":25428.506,"text":"大陸配偶取得身份證跟其他國家的配偶取得身份證的這個方式確實是目前有不一樣而不一樣的情況下如果按照各項的項目來看的話大陸配偶享受到的這樣的一個"},{"start":25430.043,"end":25432.564,"text":"秦教委員長剛提到說因為兩岸的經濟、背景各個不同那請問一下"},{"start":25458.951,"end":25479.353,"text":"現在現行是6年就沒有這個問題嗎?為什麼改成4年就會有這個問題呢?感覺像這個就是邏輯不通啊。這個我想陸委會主委比較清楚全部的來龍去脈。基本上我想委員大概都知道啦,這個我們從憲法徵求條文裡面他就特別做的這樣的規定。"},{"start":25480.424,"end":25480.444,"text":"委員長"},{"start":25495.484,"end":25497.825,"text":"請問院長你有沒有看過2020年6月出版的公民與政治權利國際公約的執行情形?"},{"start":25522.337,"end":25546.876,"text":"簽約國根據公約的第40條提交的第三次國家的報告請院長看一下在第61頁的第239點大陸配偶來台取得身份證年限調整為外籍配偶一致以凝聚臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第17條的修正草案上代立法院完成立法程序"},{"start":25547.584,"end":25565.77,"text":"請問院長,行政院修法的版本在哪裡?行政院沒有修法的版本,這是我們在執行情形的時候請國際學者來評估,然後他也聽了我們國內的專家還有人民的意見以後所提的,這是一個建議。"},{"start":25567.611,"end":25592.856,"text":"在這個建議的過程當中,他們並不了解我們兩岸條例修正的時候,實際上對於陸配以及他的家屬的這些人權保障。院長,這個報告是我們提供的吧?這個國家報告是我們提供的吧?那如果沒有這個版本的話,這樣寫是不是在欺騙國際社會?沒有沒有,這個是建議啊。沒關係,院長。如果接下來的話這個版本,因為我剛好也有提出了有關"},{"start":25593.716,"end":25621.806,"text":"兩岸關係的第17條的修正草案所以我可以來幫院長完成這個公報的這個國家報告的這個政策。好,院長現在再請教您現行大陸配偶來臺制度已經超過14年了但大陸配偶取得身份證的年限卻比外籍配偶來得長所以依據我國的移民政策的話其實我們是多元包容尊重人權及合理的保障移入人口的一個權益"},{"start":25623.311,"end":25650.317,"text":"所以我想基於憲法平等的原則大陸配偶取得身份證的年限4年可以進一步的保障合法的兩岸人、婚姻大陸的配偶來台的權益也可以實現兩公約人權的保障的措施落實我國人口跟移民的政策那所以本席在這邊再請教院長請問院長調降大陸配偶取得身份證的年限會不會增加健保的支出"},{"start":25651.709,"end":25664.95,"text":"在這個部分我想要看他有一些條件但是剛才你提到的這一些你剛才念的那一段我想要再跟委員做一個報告"},{"start":25665.549,"end":25668.031,"text":"我跟院長說明其實我們現在外籍配偶"},{"start":25689.52,"end":25718.151,"text":"就是取得身份證的比例只有大概是67%左右可是我們陸籍配偶取得身份證的比例只有30幾%所以說其實外籍配偶取得身份證的比例反而是更高那為什麼跟你提到這個為什麼問說有沒有增加健保的問題就是因為我們請看一下我們的簡報檔就是其實是不會增加健保的支出為什麼呢因為其實我們目前根據定居的定義"},{"start":25719.692,"end":25745.417,"text":"第三條您可以看一下臺灣地區人民的直系、血親跟配偶必須年滿70歲而且一年僅有60個名額所以本席所提的兩岸關係條例的第17條如果能夠完成修法的話可申請來臺的這個定居的名額不會增加所以也不會增加健保的這個負擔所以本席要跟院長強調"},{"start":25746.854,"end":25774.228,"text":"不論這個配偶是來自各地,他們都是我們臺灣人的媽媽,臺灣人的這個媳婦喔,所以希望說在這個跨國婚姻當中喔,他們的面對的挑戰跟面對的這個生活的各這樣的這個背景喔,其實不會因為來自哪裡而有所不同。所以我們還是希望不要有雙重標準,能夠一致的標準。我們是不是讓比較健保比較熟悉的那個外國會長來講?如果說修法是不是要把六十人也修進去?"},{"start":25774.844,"end":25796.911,"text":"沒有,我的修法沒有改,所以我們不會增加健保的支出。沒有,我說配套措施就把60人也修進去,變成法律。不好意思,請問一下,要不然部長來當立委好了,你來提出修法。我的建議是這個樣子。第二個我跟委員補充,入配大概有三分之一,我們現在入配大概將近36萬,但是有12萬人其實是不在台灣的。"},{"start":25797.791,"end":25823.095,"text":"因為他們就是臺灣臺商的幹部是配合我們今天所以你剛剛那個數字比例是錯誤剛剛問的本席問的是指健保會不會增加支柱那剛剛有提到的嘛因為來臺定居的人數並不會增加所以根本不會增加健保支柱所以這樣子的一個論調引起人民的恐慌我覺得這樣是很不適當的那當然現在啦"},{"start":25823.835,"end":25844.56,"text":"現在的這個老人健保的這個我要再請教的是有關老人健保費的補助因為現行老人健保的補助各縣市不一致70歲以上的中低收入老人的健保費是由衛福部全額補助65歲到69歲的中低收入戶的老人健保費則是以各縣市的這個"},{"start":25845.345,"end":25847.648,"text":"請問院長您看到我們現在這個各縣市健保補助經費的這個表格您有什麼感想?"},{"start":25859.97,"end":25883.622,"text":"我想健保很重要的一件事情他也需要有永續那在永續的時候他如果有一貫的制度的話是會比較好而且也要注意到這一個世代的正義因為現在每一個人的平均壽命都在延長很多人的壽命都在延長在這樣的一個情況下如果我們就對某一個高齡的人"},{"start":25884.583,"end":25912.923,"text":"給他減少的時候實際上年輕的人的負擔也是很重的這個是所有的保險都會有這樣的現象本席提到的是平權就是我在別的縣市是可以享受到這個老人健保但是呢我比如說現在很多縣市包括六都他們都有這個老人健保的補助那我如果住像我之前在雲林縣我在雲林縣卻沒有辦法因為財政的關係沒有辦法為什麼同卡不同名"},{"start":25913.623,"end":25928.237,"text":"為什麼不能全國?您剛說的那個論壇跟這件事情我想是沒有關係。我要指的是說既然同樣都是為65歲以上的這個老人,有些縣市他是可以健保費不必給付,有些縣市卻必須要自己給付。"},{"start":25928.837,"end":25955.256,"text":"那這個部分呢就違反這個憲法平權的一個概念所以今天本席其實提到的都是平權的一個概念啦是啦 各位委員報告齁 這平權包括有兩個意義那現在你看到的是水平的平權但是我們未來老人家越來越多年輕人越來越少所以如果說超過65歲的通通都是有一個免這個健保費的話"},{"start":25958.759,"end":25971.713,"text":"我現在要提的我不是叫你這個健保的部分我現在我本期會提出的是老人福利法的修法這是世代的平權的問題所以要求老人的健保能夠全國統一由中央編列預算"},{"start":25972.694,"end":25991.901,"text":"那希望陳院長能夠支持。我是覺得65歲的老人健保有全國變略預算,這樣就是我剛才講的,就是未來的世代平權就會打破了。因為現在的人都被活到85歲。你這樣可能會造成大家都把人口移到這個有補助的縣市,那不是一樣的問題。"},{"start":25993.922,"end":25995.783,"text":"請教院長,您知不知道國軍編列木林經費的目的是什麼?"},{"start":26024.005,"end":26037.016,"text":"因為國軍在不同的地區會有相關的訓練的場所當然會對民眾會有一些影響所以我們就會編列一些慕尼的經會來謝謝這些民眾來提供這些場所"},{"start":26045.261,"end":26059.349,"text":"簡單來說,其實就是國軍在海上或陸上的演習對民眾造成影響,或者是損害犧牲的補償。所以請教一下部長,您覺得現行的補償方式公平嗎?有真正補償到受到影響的民眾嗎?"},{"start":26060.089,"end":26086.261,"text":"我跟委員報告,這個補償方法大概從民國96年開始,這當中有很多意見,一開始發到縣,縣的話地方鄉鎮市區就有意見,現在我們這錢是補償到鄉鎮市區,這樣它會直接作業,而因為這個費用的經費運用它有個規範,不是講我們訂的,經過討論的,要用在地方建設或者對這個陸續案的補助,所以都會有一些爭議。"},{"start":26087.732,"end":26116.14,"text":"您剛提到是補貼到鄉鎮市公所嘛那鄉鎮市公所一定能夠了解影響到影響民眾的需求嘛舉例來說喔國軍對海涉及影響的是漁民最了解漁民的需求到底是誰當然是漁會但是補助的經費卻編給公所所以變成說牧林經費的30%就根據牧林經費的要點規定是要做海岸設施改善或海洋生態保健"},{"start":26116.77,"end":26118.111,"text":"所以為什麼不能直接把經費給漁會?"},{"start":26131.937,"end":26136.881,"text":"那如果公所因為地方的一個種種因素導致協調的困難,漁民根本享受不到牧林經費的照顧呢?"},{"start":26158.757,"end":26161.558,"text":"所以剛剛部長提到的因為漁會是人民團體所以不能直接補助那請問農業部有直接補助給漁會嗎?"},{"start":26183.151,"end":26189.295,"text":"對,那既然農業部也可以補助給人民團體,一樣是行政單位為什麼農業部可以直接補助給漁會?國防部不行。"},{"start":26213.432,"end":26237.628,"text":"我剛剛講的規定不能改嗎?不符合需求我覺得就應該要修正啊。到底是什麼原因只能公所不能給漁會。因為事實上公所其實都沒有跟漁會協調啦。因為真正了解漁民需求的應該就是漁會他們最了解。所以說我是建議啦就是說如果啦如果國防不好你不能直接補助給漁費那是法源的問題。好OK。"},{"start":26239.189,"end":26259.949,"text":"國防部可不可以把這相關的經費給農業部讓農業部來補助給漁會呢?這樣是不是會達到這樣的目的呢?我是覺得這樣啦委員如果覺得說在地方的鄉鎮做得不盡完善的時候我們會請他們在跟漁會或者是跟農會或者跟水利會"},{"start":26260.469,"end":26261.85,"text":"因為剛剛部長提到其實這個睦寧經費工作要點其實在去年的12月有做了一個重大的修正"},{"start":26279.026,"end":26294.443,"text":"可是那時候可能剛好在選舉都沒有經過充分的溝通之下就貿然的修訂。所以說現在您知道嗎有我們以新竹區議會來說它跨越了新竹縣跟新竹市的多個鄉鎮以往它是每個鄉鎮都可以30%的補助"},{"start":26295.905,"end":26296.165,"text":"我們讓部長來回答"},{"start":26321.186,"end":26341.617,"text":"我跟委員報告一下,當初當委員提到這些問題,當初全部平均在分配就造成問題。我的影響大,為什麼跟他影響小是一樣。所以紛紛找到問題沒有停過,我們一定很傷腦筋。所以但是目前我跟委員報告,我們這個做法公告之前要做的一定是經過大家協調的。"},{"start":26344.158,"end":26358.129,"text":"今天本席會在這邊質詢這個問題就是漁業、漁會、漁業界、漁民的這個一些反彈的聲音。所以是不是能夠請部長在這邊裡面提出一些建議的方式在一個月內回覆本席好嗎?"},{"start":26358.949,"end":26375.854,"text":"我們未來在協調的時候來看看怎麼樣來加強。然後另外我想請教的就是說因為其實對於我想這個木林政策其實當然就是希望在我們這樣延續的過程中對漁業所造成的傷害或是說沒有讓他們一些這個沒有辦法"},{"start":26376.854,"end":26405.602,"text":"呃,就是影響生計的一個狀況之下呢,像我以舉例來,以111年臺東的海域為例,三到六月是他們的一個餘訊期。但是當年度的六月有中科院、有海軍、有陸軍等單位共計43天的砲火射擊演習。若再加上天候不佳不能出員,等於整個餘訊期都報銷了。所以在這邊,再想請教部長,如果沒有辦法增加經費的話,至少要恢復原補助的標準。"},{"start":26405.984,"end":26433.831,"text":"因為這個問題會影響到的產業是的主管機關是農業部我想請教農業部您的部長您的意見是什麼?基本上那個整個的一個漁業的補發的時候他有他的特定的一些漁訓區就像剛才陳如那個委員所說的那在漁訓區我剛提的是說未來如果剛講的說這個補助不能直接給漁會那你們其實很多補助是直接給漁會是不是可以國防部如果"},{"start":26434.195,"end":26435.516,"text":"接下來要跟這個院長討論的是電價的調漲的問題"},{"start":26460.624,"end":26477.161,"text":"院長您可以看到一下這個是本席特別將您跟蔡英文總統在2015年選舉時候講過的話整理出來那時候不管是蔡總統或院長您都提到臺灣電力供應是足夠漲價的機率不會太高"},{"start":26478.238,"end":26497.717,"text":"蔡總統也說10年內不會大漲。請問院長你可不可以說一下什麼叫做大漲?大漲的定律是什麼?不會大漲又是怎樣?我想天有不測風雲。全世界不管哪一個國家都不會料想到有這個俄烏戰爭。而俄烏戰爭發生以後所有的染料就增加。我想"},{"start":26498.718,"end":26518.701,"text":"即使是神仙他也可能很難猜到所以不能夠拿這個2015年2016年的情況來講那什麼叫做大漲呢?如果按照俄烏戰爭引起的這一個電費的染料費增加的話各國的大漲都是漲在50%到兩倍以上50%到兩倍以上那我們現在調漲兩次一個8%一個11%今年4月又要再調漲"},{"start":26528.403,"end":26555.862,"text":"就我的了解現在是跟針對民生用電330度以下都不能總漲幅31%你怎麼算出來的啊?是累進的總幅8.4%這累進不是三個相加這個部分之後可以請王美花部長可以請王美花部長再告訴您現在是因為這一個是累進稅率的關係可能因為部長您學的不是這個這方面我覺得是統計待會可以請王美花部長跟您說明"},{"start":26556.903,"end":26584.046,"text":"好基本度數的這個不調漲的原則我想這個部分我們都知道其實主要的問題是什麼就是錯誤的能源政策嗎我們可以看到這次要調漲的是針對民生用電基本度數330度以下的這個也都要調漲了而且是不分級距的前面調漲執政講求的是誠信所以本席希望你們能夠遵守蔡英文總統的承諾"},{"start":26584.983,"end":26612.856,"text":"基本電數不調漲可以嗎?這個電價能不能調漲我們有一個電價審議委員會要來做全盤的評估這有不同的學者專家社會的公正人士那他們才能夠為這件事情做最後的一個決定其實在美國商會跟歐洲商會都對我國提出示警啦今天蔡政府應該要確保可長久而且有具競爭力的能源"},{"start":26613.556,"end":26624.122,"text":"而且強調這個對我國的經濟成長可以說是至關重要所以蔡英文政府錯誤的能源政策不但造成工業民生用電的不穩還讓台電虧損連連到去年為止負債已經超過3826億了"},{"start":26631.3,"end":26654.915,"text":"其實在蔡總統上任之前我們還有一個電價平穩基金還有剩800多億的盈餘所以再加上到目前累積的虧損是3826億也就是已經虧損了4600多億這個如果不是錯誤的能源政策所導致的那怎麼有可能造成這樣子的一個大漲呢所以我想大家看一下下一張的那個PD這是我們目前從這個表格"},{"start":26662.13,"end":26671.419,"text":"可以看到我們未來這個電價飆漲的一個危機所以 院長我想現在您看到的是有關核能燃煤燃氣跟再生能源"},{"start":26672.935,"end":26700.738,"text":"沒有人會反對綠能,我們只是想問的是,臺電現在預估2024年核能發電只有111億度,2025年非核家園州將歸零,若以2023年核能發電的170億度到2025年歸零,這個電缺口要從哪個能源來補?蔡政府目前是要以天然氣、綠能來替代,那這兩年的能源的發電成本,這兩類的發電成本都偏高,這將使電價越來越高。"},{"start":26701.4,"end":26724.023,"text":"所以院長您還認同您2015年所說的漲價機率不太高。剛才講過惡霧戰爭造成的染料的這個費用大量增加那如果委員你來看核能跟再生能源的占比核能的占比實際上是很低的。可以看核能現在你看我們其實核能的每度的均價是一點"},{"start":26724.643,"end":26748.219,"text":"但是這裡沒有包括核味料處理還有核除液以後的經費所以您就可以看得到其實我想以核能來說的話確實是一個安全而且也是各國都能夠接受的一個現在的一個綠電喔還有再請問一下院長您知道天然氣的售價天然氣的售價有所謂的亞洲溢價院長您知道嗎我們天然氣有一個所謂的亞洲溢價您知道"},{"start":26753.917,"end":26753.977,"text":"亞洲的議價"},{"start":26775.612,"end":26776.533,"text":"我國天然氣的這個這個亞洲的價格就是比較高"},{"start":26797.915,"end":26805.543,"text":"而我國天然氣的佔比高達50%本期要提醒院長未來天然氣採購價格何可能會再出現所謂的臺灣議論請問一下院長您同不同意要檢討我們現行的能源政策"},{"start":26815.609,"end":26828.435,"text":"我想我們的能源政策經過檢討以後我們就是用剛才的這樣的配比來努力我們發展綠能我們現在要展示但是核能的部分我要跟委員講你講核能的部分實際上核能到目前為止多大的廚藝階段到達原理階段希望你們能夠檢討錯誤的能源政策那本席在這邊具體的呢要請院長"},{"start":26843.962,"end":26855.394,"text":"是不是能夠針對電價的部分有兩項我們是不是能夠不要這個調漲第一個就是農業漁業還有一些公益團體還有學生的這個社會機構的本次的調漲能夠比照2022年的做法讓電價不調漲"},{"start":26863.837,"end":26877.882,"text":"那所需的經費由中央來補助,請問院長可以嗎?電價的調漲我們會很細緻而且很精緻,像以往一樣很精緻來做。但是要不調漲哪個項目全部調漲還是要讓審議委員會來做決定。報告院會現在,謝謝徐議委員與真的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。報告院會現在我們休息10分鐘,先來休息。"},{"start":27493.883,"end":27517.86,"text":"報告宴會現在繼續開會接下來我們請登記第43號和委員新淳質詢謝謝院長那我們是不是請陳建仁陳院長請陳院長備詢"},{"start":27524.944,"end":27525.089,"text":"好,沒關係。"},{"start":27525.937,"end":27555.157,"text":"院長我今天質詢最重要是focus在我們中央地方合作那對於民生建設經濟的議題那首先民生最關心的是臺中的那一塊天選之樓我們政府對於食安的態度所以呢我們必須要給人民一個真相一個最好的說明那我記得那時候我們行政院說這個整個台糖瘦肉精的這個專家會議食安辦會在3月統一的來說明結果"},{"start":27555.777,"end":27567.971,"text":"那院長不知道3月到了那大概是什麼時候我們會得到比較完整的說明好現在我已經有收到農業部的專家委員會的一個報告開完了"},{"start":27570.581,"end":27588.333,"text":"那衛福部這邊我請部長來說明一下。這一個部分的話目前正在簽辦,那應該是這兩天就會送到行政院。就會到行政院,會有行政院統一來去說明。那你像部長這樣說,你覺得大概多久的時間?"},{"start":27589.013,"end":27611.802,"text":"我想大概我希望是在這個禮拜內這個禮拜內好不好我們食安辦竟然專家會已經開完了那衛福部也已經簽成上行政院這兩天就會到了那我想院長是專家是科學家那長久以來也非常的重視我們食安那為了要給國人一個信心跟安心我覺得這個真的要盡快的做一個"},{"start":27612.282,"end":27626.248,"text":"完整的說明安民心這個是民生最關心的除了這樣子我們要挺台灣本土豬我知道之前副院長有跟我們盧市長約要去台中吃鍋副院長對不對點頭搖頭約了嗎"},{"start":27631.547,"end":27632.988,"text":"這也是一個很有趣的安排"},{"start":27653.595,"end":27667.434,"text":"可以嗎?你有時間是不是來邀請我們台中市所有的立委?總質詢結束以後我來安排。好,那我就等你敲定時間我們來挺台灣本土豬。那我為什麼會這樣說?因為院長是一個"},{"start":27669.476,"end":27697.93,"text":"溫暖兼任的內閣看到你大家都叫到大仁哥非常溫暖所以在你上任的100天的時候我記得我還把你的八張圖卡通通還留下來所以你把八項打造內政、教育、近隣轉型、外交、交通、義後特別預算及文化等等這八張的圖卡樣樣都說明了上任100天的時候你的政績那我想有的是非常的有感"},{"start":27698.55,"end":27703.495,"text":"目前的財政狀況很可能需要用來補貼健保、勞保還有台電那如果這三個還有餘裕的話有沒有可能?"},{"start":27723.305,"end":27741.073,"text":"我們就要看看明年後年的經濟狀況。但是今年的情形確實我們的勞保需要有很好的保障,還有台電,因為台電他在作為物價上升的消波塊,他確實需要我們政府要有補貼。"},{"start":27742.133,"end":27765.427,"text":"所以勞保當然勞保是大家非常關心的也是要勞工的命脈因為勞保基金政府要負最後的責任嘛那也是要安定所有勞工的心嘛那第二個當然這我知道會有感第二個臺電當然不可以倒啦但是呢電價穩定民生電價動漲是不是能夠繼續我覺得這是攸關民生經濟一個最重要的議題嘛我覺得"},{"start":27766.468,"end":27788.491,"text":"建議院長我們要推出有感又便民的政策我剛剛舉了經濟成果全民共享所以普發現金那個是非常有感的政策如果財政真的有餘裕可以的話我是建議可以來思考再來發一次那第二個其實現在在推的這個私立大專校院的這個學雜費的補助直接在這個"},{"start":27789.872,"end":27793.934,"text":"我只是希望說我們的溫暖堅韌內閣雖然我不認為我們現在這個時段叫做看守內閣我覺得我們"},{"start":27817.844,"end":27845.298,"text":"應該說,做一天和尚敲一天鐘,我們一定要盡心盡力堅守到最後一刻,因為這是我們內閣的職責,也是院長的一個責任嘛,對不對?我希望前後內閣有一個無縫的結尾啦。是,那我要跟院長報告,你到現在今天是就任第400天,我幫你算了一下。謝謝。剛剛那幾項讓人民很有感,那確實大家拍手叫好,不過我也必須要提醒,我在基層"},{"start":27846.619,"end":27868.168,"text":"大家現在普遍對我們政府做的還不夠的怨言最多的一個是毒品氾濫一個就是詐騙我們的打詐國家隊依然讓人家覺得不夠信任大家還是質疑政府的打詐能力不夠所以我們打詐無法雖然三賭啦可是在執行面上"},{"start":27869.308,"end":27894.357,"text":"還是要深切地去檢討為什麼讓人民還不夠信任政府的打詐的能力。院長你認為問題出在哪裡?我想問題大概有幾個因為現在民眾還是接收到不少的詐騙的簡訊等等那怎麼樣讓大家這樣的壓力能夠減少那第二個一個民眾像今天早上的時候也有委員提到說這個打詐的這個"},{"start":27899.076,"end":27919.238,"text":"這一個罰則,處罰,宣判以後這個處罰的太低了,然後沒有辦法有效的來打擊這個詐騙當然還有很多的方面我們應該來努力,那這一個部分我們一定會充分的來做好這個試詐"},{"start":27920.7,"end":27947.128,"text":"我是建議院長我們打詐國家對各個部會的第一個職責要分工確定的非常的清楚第二個分工確立清楚之後責任也就跟著來了那責任我們在怎麼樣的究責該怎麼樣去推動這些打詐的一些績效我覺得這很重要而且最重要是要讓人民有感要讓人民有感那詐騙無所不在但是雖然防不勝防"},{"start":27947.808,"end":27960.334,"text":"如果政府各單位有盡心盡力做到讓人民有感說我是真的被打擊犯罪打擊詐騙集團那我覺得人民也會肯定政府也會拍手叫好"},{"start":27960.936,"end":27988.493,"text":"這個我們來做好跨部會的合作這個細節我是不是再請行政院這邊再給我一個打造國家對到底最近的成效如何我們給你一個書面的報告對好一個書面報告給我那最後接下來我就職的這一屆就職的第一天我們就接到台中市政府有來函當然身為台中市的立委我想不分黨派就如同院長所講的這很多的重大建設必須要中央地方一起合作對我同意"},{"start":27989.533,"end":28015.104,"text":"台中市有提出第一個財政收支劃分法、少子女對策、道交管理事件的統一財閥基準、都市計劃法還有台中的各項建設。我就一個一個來為地方來謀福利、爭取預算這天經地義當然我要反映基層跟民眾的需求是我的職責。第一個修財劃法不知道院長有沒有我們行政院這一邊"},{"start":28016.601,"end":28043.091,"text":"有沒有打算那目前有沒有接收到多少其他的地方政府提出希望能夠修才化法確實有不少的地方政府有提出這樣的建議但是因為才化法的修正其實知識體大而且每一個地方政府的意見又不一樣比如說六都有六都的看法甚至六都裡面台北有台北的看法高雄有高雄的看法所以這裡面確實是需要"},{"start":28044.031,"end":28044.411,"text":"要解釋一下。"},{"start":28073.135,"end":28093.854,"text":"一開始講的是說是有好幾個地方政府是有提出這樣子的一個需求那院長有沒有一個規劃時程什麼時候邀集地方政府來談我們心中有沒有草案有沒有配套有沒有一個原則性希望來推動什麼時間要來推動修這個才化法來部長"},{"start":28094.899,"end":28118.745,"text":"跟委員說明一下對於財化法的修正我們也聽到了各縣市政府的意見財政部也擬聚了六項修法的原則這個六項修法原則也有跟地方政府做說明我們從去年也已經含詢各地方政府在分配上因為他們最在乎的是分配分配的指標上比如說像財政能力以及基本建設的一個需求面"},{"start":28119.225,"end":28134.343,"text":"提出來哪一些分配需要的一些指標那目前來說各地方政府的意見回來但是差距都很大那在對這個差距這麼大部分財政部會在邀請地方政府來做討論我們希望把差距我想在近期內我們會把這個匯整出來以後"},{"start":28136.785,"end":28160.268,"text":"請大家來再來一個說明然後把希望能夠把差距能夠盡量的一個縮小然後有一個共識對就尋求一個共識我現在要求的是要尋求共識的步驟tempo可不可以抓快一點要及協商的時間盡快排定一次不行兩次兩次不行三次我們希望把各地方政府包括跟院長講的六都的"},{"start":28161.309,"end":28161.369,"text":"是,是。"},{"start":28185.786,"end":28206.865,"text":"台中市政府第二個有講的其實是現在基層最關心的這個我們現在的交通交通的問題我想基層的民院院長應該也都知道那台中市政府有來文說他們警政單位希望修違反道路交通管理事件統一裁罰基準及處理細則"},{"start":28208.486,"end":28225.98,"text":"其實院長你也知道這個東西是叫做行政命令啦。最重要的是要解決的是什麼?解決的是現在的交通祭典以及所謂的選舉的相關的一些配套我們應該怎麼調整。還有呢在行人安全跟道路安全"},{"start":28226.84,"end":28243.746,"text":"為最上位的情況之下我們又怎麼樣來調整所以來 院長行政院怎麼看這個臺中市政府要我們修這個行政命令我想我們對於這個交通祭典相關的這些行政命令我們已經有請交通部在研議而且除了這個研議還不過我們現在可能還有道交條例的這個"},{"start":28248.291,"end":28249.352,"text":"而且必須要地方政府配合"},{"start":28274.286,"end":28288.291,"text":"對,對,對,所以我們這個禮拜四的時候就會有更通盤的考量,我們也希望提出來以後在需要修法的部分在大院這邊能夠得到所有朝野委員的支持。"},{"start":28289.531,"end":28316.505,"text":"我想剛剛院長所講的大部分的人都會同意我們希望在行人安全、道路安全在最第一優先的情況之下去減少、降低或調整一些人民院的地方那當然守法很重要但是要求人民守法之前我們必須要把一些該做的要先做好所以中央地方要好好的把什麼道路基本的設計、交通"},{"start":28318.806,"end":28320.427,"text":"院長接著台中的重大建設"},{"start":28346.38,"end":28361.33,"text":"我想捷運系統不管是綠線的延伸你核定了藍線你也核定了那還有橘線、紫線、環狀線那臺東市政府提出中科二期的沿外道路甚至還有經濟部水利署的水環境改善工程等等"},{"start":28361.83,"end":28376.689,"text":"我只是希望說 院長臺中市政府提出來其實我們還有更多需要支持的那是不是請中央可以來協助補助經費到位讓這個地方政府這個臺中市的重大建設可以獲得中央的支持"},{"start":28376.929,"end":28376.949,"text":"委員長"},{"start":28398.406,"end":28399.026,"text":"好,我們全力以赴"},{"start":28430.211,"end":28434.596,"text":"謝謝何委員心存的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第44號,我們羅委員自強質詢。"},{"start":28460.356,"end":28489.143,"text":"主席有請院長。再請陳院長備詢。院長您好。民主國家的立法權,包括聽證及調查權。4至585號明確指出,立法院為有效行使憲法所賦予之立法職權,本其固有之權能自得享有一定之調查權。"},{"start":28490.575,"end":28517.178,"text":"立法院與院會決議後可要求調查事項相關之人民或政府人員陳述證言表示意見違反協助調查義務者可予處罰。失去調查權和聽證權的立法院就像缺了牙的老虎根本沒有辦法有效監督立法院應該儘速完成相關修法請問院長我的這一段話你同不同意"},{"start":28517.83,"end":28546.138,"text":"我看這個調查權的這個部分實際上立法院這一邊以外呢還有這個監察院也有調查權我只問您這一段話您覺得你同不同意我們在這個國會殿堂裡面我們就有來接受這個很簡單的問題認不認同的情況認不認同如果違反了協助調查的義務可以處罰你認不認同"},{"start":28548.651,"end":28566.377,"text":"這一個部分我個人是覺得在這一個調查的過程當中 院長你有憲政高度答這個話吱吱嗚嗚的也不太像你我再問你一次哈對於違反對於違反聽證調查義務者科與處罰你認不認同我覺得應該彼此尊重認不認同我在這裡我"},{"start":28577.935,"end":28601.64,"text":"我個人是覺得並不認同。感謝你嚴重的打臉了陳其邁。這是2012年12月6日陳其邁、鄭麗君、立委們召開健全議事運作,賦予國會聽證調查權記者會當中主張。我原文照念。恭喜你,鄭重打臉了2012年的陳其邁。"},{"start":28604.478,"end":28626.518,"text":"陳其邁明確要求建立國會聽證調查制度並對違反者可以處罰。我再想請教院長您下一句話我已經在朝你國會聽證調查的法案準備要修正立法院職權行使法底下是我的修法理由跟修法方向想請教院長是否認同"},{"start":28627.878,"end":28646.82,"text":"立院得設置調查委員會或專案小組,調閱文件及要求有關機關人員提供證言資料。如果立法院對調閱文件之存在或真實性有合理重大懷疑,經院會決議得要求政府機關提供原件,"},{"start":28647.461,"end":28673.786,"text":"立法院行使調查權時,行政機關如果沒有法律依據行政特權或政當理由,拒絕列席提供證言虛偽陳述,可含請司法機關處罰追訴,致令藐視國會罪,官員公完說謊,得處罰之。你覺得我的立法理由寫得好不好啊?不太好。不太好啊?恭喜你打臉了柯建民。"},{"start":28675.667,"end":28694.082,"text":"這個提案是民進黨、立法院黨團、柯建民總召等人在2016年4月提出的修法版本和文字內容。而藐視國會罪的部分也是蔡同榮先生一貫的主張。"},{"start":28695.163,"end":28723.592,"text":"在民進黨的版本裡面他所修正的立法院職權行使法第74條之二針對無法律依據行政特權正當理由拒絕拖延引力不提供文件資料或物件或者是做虛偽陳述等等的行為要可以新台幣1萬元以上30萬元以下罰還並得按次連續處罰可不可以請院長告訴我為什麼你要打臉陳其邁為什麼你要打臉"},{"start":28724.602,"end":28750.908,"text":"何建民呢我覺得時空有改變那很重要的呢時空再度改變就是你們的屁股的位置不一樣所以我們很重要換了位置就換了腦袋委員我講完我們需要審慎嚴厲來聽取各方的意見剛才我跟你講跟你說的是我個人的看法那很重要的院長你今天備詢是以什麼身份在這邊備詢的"},{"start":28753.29,"end":28777.347,"text":"你是以行政院院長的身份在這裡備訓沒有關係 院長我告訴你你在這邊就充分的展現了民進黨的反覆身為民進黨的閣員你公然打臉民進黨立法院黨團提出來的國會改革版本然後呢連陳其邁高雄市長的面子你也不給你就打臉他可是我跟院長講你完全正確你知道為什麼"},{"start":28778.752,"end":28798.836,"text":"因為民進黨就是一個換了屁股就換了腦袋的政黨啊。這個我不同意。有關係,你不同意。但是你剛剛答詢就證明了這件事情。2016年4月的民進黨版本,它贊不贊成國會聽證調查?白紙黑字哦,還是你要像上次一樣去查資料,認為我講的是不對的。我講的是有憑有據哦。可是今天"},{"start":28806.778,"end":28827.572,"text":"行政院長、民進黨行政院長公然反對國會聽證調查也反對對於違反國會聽證調查義務要刻意罰還這些都是民進黨2016年的主張也是2012年陳其邁的主張啊甚至蔡同榮一輩子要爭取的國會聽證調查他是心願、遺願啊"},{"start":28829.827,"end":28839.94,"text":"就被你三言兩句輕言輕輕的就把他抹煞了可是為什麼我說你是正確的你知道柯建民現在總召講到國會聽證調查他怎麼說你知道嗎?您知道嗎?他說這叫毀憲亂政"},{"start":28849.022,"end":28869.498,"text":"你認同嗎?建立國會聽證調查制度要毀憲亂政嗎?我想國會聽證調查目前在這個50分的立法院不應該...議員長我再給你一個修正的機會你贊不贊成民進黨2016年版本4月提出來要建立國會聽證調查制度?贊不贊成?"},{"start":28871.929,"end":28893.975,"text":"我不贊成啦你不贊成喔一路走來始終如一啊但是很重要的就是說五權分立的這個情況下我要做一個很簡單的結論你講五權分立你要請問你憲法大法官會議4至585號怎麼說你告訴我怎麼說我沒有辦法記起來他直接說立法院就有調查權啊"},{"start":28895.503,"end":28920.757,"text":"這是大法院4至5、8、5號寫是寫的而且如果對於違反聽證調查的義務他直接寫可以得以科處罰還所以這是何憲的何來毀憲亂政之說我這邊做一個很簡單的結論院長我告訴你我不怪你因為民進黨的柯建民總召就自己在自己打臉打臉打到你最近可能都看他的說法你可能就被他誤導了"},{"start":28922.028,"end":28950.458,"text":"回去讀讀憲法讀讀民進黨2016年的版本比較實際我在這邊跟院長報告羅志強在這邊公開宣布我今天百分之百站在2016年的民進黨這邊我會提一個跟民進黨2016年的4月完全百分之百一致不差的國會聽證調查制度的修法法案希望院長可以給2016年的民進黨一點鼓勵可不可以"},{"start":28951.749,"end":28979.614,"text":"可不可以?請院長回答。這個很簡單。可不可以?我剛才已經講過這種事情需要很深的討論。沒有關係我跟院長講我就是要眼睜睜睜大眼睛看看民進黨去反對自己2016年4月提出來的國會聽證調查法案。我就要看看民進黨的屁股有沒有長到腦袋上面要不要繼續的打臉自己。"},{"start":28981.308,"end":29008.49,"text":"院長我想請教您下一個問題NCC是才委員會制對不對是這是幾個委員7個要經院長提名立法院同意對7月會有4位委員任期屆滿按照法律請問幾月底要完成提名4月底所以沒有意外是你來提名對不對是"},{"start":29009.807,"end":29034.883,"text":"我想請問賴清德總統當選有沒有來跟你溝通委員的人選目前還沒沒有是不是我想請教你你已經多次在答詢當中說你不會留任行政院長對不對是所以換言之你在4月底提名了這些人之後520以後這些委員就新政府了對不對"},{"start":29036.138,"end":29059.034,"text":"那你不覺得你開手政府你提名委員問你你有沒有要跟新政府要溝通一下當然要啊當然要但是到現在為止還沒嘛好那賴清德說要提名跨黨派人士擔任NCC委員那考量到立議院有同意權你會不會尊重立議院的多數意見事先做溝通還是你就直接提名丟到立法院來投票"},{"start":29060.421,"end":29068.8,"text":"我想有各式各樣的溝通而且各式各樣的徵詢你會溝通徵詢嗎?不會就自己就直接提名人選就丟到立法院來投票了嗎?"},{"start":29070.772,"end":29093.304,"text":"謝謝院長,我這裡自己肯定你,跟目前國會多數的在野黨好好溝通。那我想問你,NCC最主要組織的任務是落實保障言論自由,維護媒體自主嘛,對不對?可是過去8年民進黨執政也掌握了NCC的提名運作,外界有很多的批評。"},{"start":29094.404,"end":29102.909,"text":"認為NCC上市的獨立機關該有的獨立自主性當然我相信你不認同可是我要問的我們應該有一個法律明確保障報社電視廣播試驗的獨立自主啊不要受政府的侵害啊要啊需要要是不是啊那請問我們現在NCC關掉哪個新聞台啊"},{"start":29121.879,"end":29147.112,"text":"但是他有他的這個執法的依據啊而且他是一個獨立機構所以我直接告訴你我剛剛講的話很簡單我講的話就是民進黨黨綱裡寫的我並沒有看到你們真的去尊重民進黨黨綱裡面保護新聞自由的精神啊獨立自主的精神在我們有保護新聞自由跟CC委員主委的治理之下"},{"start":29148.493,"end":29172.38,"text":"你看到的是我們新聞被箝制啊。我想請教您,沒關係,我請教您下一個問題。作為總統或執政者,無論電視台或節目的好壞,就算很討厭某電視台,要關掉電視台或節目都不該是由政府去關,而是要由閱聽人,也就是觀眾,透過市場機制來決定。"},{"start":29175.291,"end":29184.476,"text":"請問院長你認同這句話嗎?不該由政府去關新聞台你認同這句話嗎?院長這句話只有認同不認同啦不該由政府去關新聞台你認不認同?部委我沒有問你喔我問的是院長喔第四次問你"},{"start":29204.744,"end":29232.146,"text":"新聞台跟節目不該是由政府去關這句話你認不認同?我想我們要依法來處理而依法處理的時候法律不對要不要改?法律今天授權NCC可以關新聞台我跟你挑戰的就是法律的正當性換照是NCC來審查嘛我再問你一次我就說這法律不對要修啊我要問院長抱歉"},{"start":29233.615,"end":29242.153,"text":"你沒什麼公信力我不想要問你啦我要問院長新聞台跟節目不該是由政府去管這句話你認不認同第六次問你"},{"start":29246.496,"end":29273.568,"text":"我是認同但是...謝謝你認同請問你旁邊的那位關掉哪一個新聞台但是問題是你旁邊那位關掉哪一個新聞台我們依法進行各種換照制度對你們我講的是我講的是憲政當中新聞自由的價值一天我認為破壞了新聞自由的這個上位價值法律就要修改院長你認不認同"},{"start":29276.707,"end":29294.457,"text":"我倒退來再問你,請問現在的法律,你剛說你認同政府不可以關新聞台嘛,你剛講的嘛,你要收回啦,不會吧?現在的法律違反了你的信念"},{"start":29295.177,"end":29318.652,"text":"你剛說你認同政府不可以關新聞臺現在法律授權NCC這位新聞自由的屠夫去關新聞臺的時候沒有什麼新聞自由的屠夫的問題你把NCC的功能做錯誤的解釋你前面已經講你的前提講完了來 院長我再問你一次"},{"start":29320.389,"end":29340.124,"text":"現在的法律是不是讓NCC授權可以關新聞台審查執照?他可以換照他可以審查換照你不給他執照就關了啊就是關新聞台啊你有沒有給中間執照?你給他執照他會關嗎?換照制度本來就是法律規定的啊"},{"start":29340.714,"end":29367.362,"text":"院長,我剛講新聞,那我想請問你啊,國民黨威權時代的報禁你總不認同嗎?你不會支持國民黨時代的報禁吧?那國民黨時代報禁也有法律依據啊,這裡現在是報紙都是政府說關就關就可以,為什麼會後來解除報禁?就是法律不正義嘛,你認不認同?還是你要,我沒問你,請你不要講話。我問你院長。"},{"start":29369.298,"end":29393.42,"text":"你站不站著解除報禁?取消政府官報社的權利?你不要把兩件事情給扯在一起。我們現在就講說NCC的功能。你剛剛前面自己講的話你又要改口了嗎?你要改口了嗎?我想在這一個神聖的民主殿堂裡面不要去講這種...我直接告訴...神聖的民主殿堂"},{"start":29394.995,"end":29410.232,"text":"你確於捍衛新聞自由,連自己都知道政府不會關新聞台。你自己都知道政府不會關新聞台,結果你在旁邊,你說叫依法辦理。那照你邏輯威權政治的國民黨,你也去加入算了。"},{"start":29410.792,"end":29425.826,"text":"非常好 給你掌聲鼓勵 這個法律違反你的信念不是羅志強的信念 是你陳建仁的信念 你說政府不可以關新聞台 我直接跟你講 你知道這句話我剛剛講的是誰講的嗎 也不是羅志強講的 是陳水扁總統講的"},{"start":29432.861,"end":29435.102,"text":"現在判決的結果還在訴訟當中我講高等行政法院"},{"start":29461.533,"end":29462.353,"text":"我要再問下一句話這訴訟進行下去"},{"start":29479.341,"end":29492.444,"text":"你總要花了多少律師費啦?跟中天的官司?倒只說1300萬是對的數字嗎?那是多少數字?你打了26加1的案子耶!我要問你花了多少訴訟費?我告訴你,這要跟我依法論法,你知道嗎?行政機關!請你尊重我回答。"},{"start":29506.809,"end":29526.027,"text":"行政機關做的行政處分在行政訴訟過程當中敗訴是很顯見的耶!你要輸到實踐官司你跟我講你很跑爆爆沒有關係至少百分之百你輸掉了一天最後造成這件事"},{"start":29527.068,"end":29536.615,"text":"沒有 這個還在上訴當中怎麼會把這個輸掉你目前省級你就是百分之百的輸那是只有高等行政委員上訴上訴最高行政委員還在進行當中來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來"},{"start":29552.042,"end":29580.148,"text":"高等法院並沒有完全查清楚說我們上訴哎呀 好了不起啊 原來是高等法院的錯啊陳水扁也錯了 高等法院也錯了陳其邁也錯了 柯建民也錯了今天真的是發現只有你陳耀祥是對的 只有你陳建成是對的這可受公平我再問一件事情 院長你知道嗎 不用你回答 我問院長"},{"start":29581.906,"end":29605.712,"text":"就算今天中省NCC敗訴你知道結果中間可不可以到52台附台可不可以我告訴你也沒辦法因為你旁邊那位會再撤銷他一次無限循環這就是為什麼今天我要拜託院長你發揮你的學者良知"},{"start":29606.564,"end":29624.841,"text":"你回到你的初心你最初說的那一句話政府不可以關新聞台我真的希望你能夠記住這句話因為是在你的良知發光的那一刻你講出了這句話你被旁邊這個人影響了啊你被旁邊這個人影響了啊沒關係我告訴你我的主張很簡單"},{"start":29629.588,"end":29650.061,"text":"就是要修法節制NCC這種濫用政府職權傷害新聞自由的事情你認不認同?你站不站著修法?你站不站著修法約束政府濫權關新聞台的這件事?沒關係你又忘掉了前面10分鐘不對"},{"start":29651.602,"end":29678.476,"text":"五分鐘前的針前我贊成要支持新聞自由但是我不贊成造謠或者是未提宣傳的媒體啊。今天來詐騙橫行啊許多善良百姓人財兩失我想請問您詐騙是國恥嗎?詐騙確實是在台灣需要再繼續加強來打詐我想請問院長啊你很愛跟馬英九比較嘛對不對?上次食安報告就跟馬英九比較嘛對不對?"},{"start":29681.185,"end":29696.684,"text":"來 詐騙 讓你再來比一次請問馬英九任內被詐欺的被害人多還是蔡英文任內多?我只講馬英九跟蔡英文 你的馬維拉扯完還要扯世界維拉嗎?"},{"start":29698.125,"end":29699.766,"text":"主席時間暫停請你尊重我的質詢權我再問你一次"},{"start":29726.555,"end":29731.723,"text":"馬政府任內跟蔡英文政府任內哪一個任內的大器被害人多?我可以回答的話?"},{"start":29741.189,"end":29759.141,"text":"你說呢?我可以回答了是不是?你說呢?你當然可以回答啊。你要去拖我時間沒關係啊。這兩個時空不一樣。我要講的就是說當這個電子媒體越來越...馬英九年平均33519人,蔡英文年平均42168人,多1萬人。然後再問你齁,你的時空切割之術連新聞自由都可以切割。"},{"start":29771.569,"end":29774.132,"text":"我再問你馬英九任內詐欺嫌疑辦多還是蔡英文?"},{"start":29787.567,"end":29789.688,"text":"馬英九任內詐欺嫌疑犯多還是蔡英文?"},{"start":29805.869,"end":29820.005,"text":"當然用人數來比,因為我們破獲得多,當然所呈現的數字...19年平均是兩萬人,蔡英文年平均三萬三千人,多出一萬三千人。"},{"start":29821.22,"end":29840.023,"text":"院長我再問哈,到你啦,前面都可以推給蘇貞昌也沒關係啦。去年5月院長拍板打詐行動綱領1.5,想請問院長,去年下半年在打詐國家隊努力之下,詐欺案減少了嗎?沒有。欸,非常誠實。2023年1月到5月16799件,6月到12月21485件。"},{"start":29849.96,"end":29868.816,"text":"你知道我有個體會餒打詐1.5行動綱領我終於懂什麼意思了不是要升級打詐行動是件數增加1.5倍啊院長你還能夠自我感覺良好於你的打詐的績效嗎當然啦我們打詐我"},{"start":29869.741,"end":29875.405,"text":"你當然自我感覺良好就像說過去的1到112年這裡面我們有1851萬通的這個詐騙電話被攔阻有810萬通的這個惡意簡訊被阻擋而且呢我們阻止的這個詐騙案件一共有11300件阻擋的金額呢有75.9億那如果再查扣詐騙受害者比馬英九每年多1萬人"},{"start":29907.077,"end":29922.422,"text":"我告訴你做最好的一件事叫自我感覺良好啦。你自我感覺良好能力超越馬英九啦。我直接講啦。真的。你講的自我感覺良好。我又講很簡單。實案報告我也超級佩服你啊。你知道你被你的部長薛樂園打臉嗎?"},{"start":29923.977,"end":29929.606,"text":"我在問你說食品中毒你跟我講不是食安問題你們上次我在部會質詢他就說是食安問題啊"},{"start":29931.292,"end":29957.369,"text":"我只跟你講的是食品中毒你每年比馬英九多400人你連查驗食品的安全檢驗數字每年比馬英九少21萬件你都可以講你食安做得比較棒我當然能夠接受你說你詐騙做得比較棒啊你自我感覺這麼良好無敵宇宙切割刀"},{"start":29958.51,"end":29958.931,"text":"我告訴你啦"},{"start":29979.13,"end":29989.375,"text":"2016 年到2023年,校園暴力跟偏差行為從6959件暴增到27511件,漲幅高達4倍。你覺得我們校園暴力的問題嚴不嚴重?校園暴力的問題確實需要繼續來改進。謝謝你,這一次你很誠懇的回答,我感謝你。"},{"start":30004.133,"end":30030.142,"text":"所以我們要一起來改進。我想請問您,校園暴力不只對待學生,也對待老師嘛,對不對?像部長那天我也跟你在質詢嘛,對不對?部長你先不要講話,我現在要問問院長知不知道最新時事,因為你上次被我考倒了。我想再重複考一次,好不好?可以嗎?我想問院長,你有沒有看到最近一位高中老師被學生暴力毆打的一個影片,特教學生有沒有看過?"},{"start":30031.715,"end":30060.985,"text":"有沒有看過?有,好像在電視上有看過。有看過齁。你知道最後怎麼收場了嗎?不清楚。那個老師站在那裡就是一動都不動,讓學生就是毆打他。完全不還手,沒有辦法處理。他叫教官,找不到教官,結果學生出去以後回來再繼續打他。打到最後是班上同班同學來去壓制他,壓制這個施暴的學生。"},{"start":30063.049,"end":30091.494,"text":"院長,你是那位老師,你作何感想?當然很難過。我也很難過。所以這一點真的我要拜託院長,這個真的就跟任何的我們講說政治立場無關了。真的要把這個校園安全網補起來,我真的遇到很多老師很痛苦啊。這些年來我們的教育的政策設計相對太過剝奪了今天老師安全管教維護校園安全的職能。"},{"start":30092.708,"end":30113.668,"text":"所以才造成今天這位老師站在那個地方他只能挨打耶我還真想不出他除了挨打以外他能做什麼他也通報教官啦然後教官也不可能立刻到啊還要找人啊然後就在那邊繼續被打然後我就問嘛同學上去壓制他是對的SOP嗎是對的SOP嗎"},{"start":30118.524,"end":30121.385,"text":"我想要跟院長再講下一件事。我們不只暴力的問題越來越嚴重,我們青少年自殺率也越來越嚴重,你知道吧?"},{"start":30142.759,"end":30152.888,"text":"你知道我們6年來學生試圖親身的統計是增加還是減少?幅度是多少?你知道嗎?6年增加10.7倍"},{"start":30160.117,"end":30160.437,"text":"新少年也很憂慮啊"},{"start":30188.39,"end":30205.283,"text":"那這一點真的是也要拜託部長跟院長真的要從學生的角度從老師的角度不管是校園的安全管理還是說今天我們校園學生的心理輔導這些都是要好好的努力加強院長可以做到嗎?"},{"start":30206.224,"end":30208.766,"text":"謝謝部長我已經開始連述學生輔導法的修法草案希望能夠明定學生身心調試價的準則"},{"start":30225.267,"end":30252.9,"text":"提升專業專任的輔導人員的校園覆蓋率,獎勵輔導教師跟輔導人員進修成校,來明確中途營效學生的預防追蹤跟複學輔導法院這四個面向。我希望部長我們可以一起來努力,可以嗎?是,我想學生輔導法目前也正在做這方面的檢討,跟希望能夠來增強。最後,我有一個小禮物要送給院長,但是我發現今天我還蠻肯定院長,你知道為什麼要準備這個東西嗎?"},{"start":30254.892,"end":30273.14,"text":"因為我上次的實案報告我發現院長你的搶話蠻嚴重的但今天我發現只有一次所以我今天給院長肯定啊所以這個牌子我不用送給你了我本來是要說的是什麼憲法徵修條件第三條第二項第一款後代立法委員在開會時有"},{"start":30281.755,"end":30282.976,"text":"謝謝羅委員志強的質詢也謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第45號張委員志倫質詢開始嗎?"},{"start":30310.202,"end":30337.243,"text":"好,謝謝院長。我們各位部會首長大家好。是不是請陳建仁院長。請陳院長備詢。總委員好。恭喜你當選立委。謝謝院長。院長想先請教您一下,最近剛剛發布的新聞,剛剛關於金下水域陸船翻覆的事件,大陸的家族以及"},{"start":30338.173,"end":30364.762,"text":"談判的代表聽說已經回到大陸了那談判破裂了不曉得院長知道這件事情嗎我知道這件事情我想這件事情剛才也有委員提起這件事那我們在中華民國的這一個海域裡面來加強這一個商務船隻的這一個侵擾加以這一個調查跟驅離我想是理所當然的應該執法而且這也是大家的公事"},{"start":30366.008,"end":30387.886,"text":"院長後續還會做什麼樣的處理情況嗎?我想後續的這個處理的情況我請那個海委會的主委來回答謝謝委員跟委員報告我們還是會一本誠意希望能夠用開放的態度能夠儘快的還能夠來化解歧見那相關的未來的發展"},{"start":30388.777,"end":30406.014,"text":"我們會在總體做研商之後持續的來聯繫那當然我們最希望的就是說這個案情能夠回歸司法的偵查然後能夠趕快釐清真相我想釐清真相對於未來的發展是最重要的關鍵"},{"start":30406.715,"end":30407.816,"text":"﹚三、4月1日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。﹚"},{"start":30423.809,"end":30442.468,"text":"要有真相要有賠償要有道歉所以這種對兩岸之間制度的落差這麼大的時候就真的是談下來其實非常的努力那雙方都很希望能夠趕快有共識然後也朝向一條一條的"},{"start":30443.929,"end":30444.73,"text":"接下來就進行到我質詢的部分"},{"start":30472.065,"end":30496.631,"text":"首先要跟這個院長報告我來自這個新北中和選區我是這次新當選的這個立法委員要跟院長報告中和地區他地狹人稠他在新北市佔著這個土地面積將近百分之一那可是卻容納了大概十分之一40萬人的人口所以地狹人稠所以尤其我要跟院長報告我們中和他當時的這個"},{"start":30498.291,"end":30518.818,"text":"建設是比都市計畫還要早期的所以現在交通的議題需要盡快的來協助處理那中和分為四個區分為秀安、南市、彰和及圓山區那圓山地區也是我們韓院長過去的家鄉那圓山地區過去它的這個基礎建設大眾交通工具"},{"start":30519.278,"end":30545.797,"text":"是明顯不足的那在政府的努力之下最近有新的一條的捷運叫做泰坂輕軌會接到中和泰坂輕軌是從泰山到新莊從板橋綠廊到到中和可是很可惜的它的終點站剛好連接到中和的舉光站那我們這邊覺得說是不是可以請院長跟我們交通部這邊來協助就是說希望"},{"start":30546.772,"end":30576.398,"text":"我們原山地區因為人口比較多那輕軌的部分如果只有一個站輕軌只有到舉光捷運站其實事實上是比較可惜的是不是可以請院長跟部長這邊來協助我想這一個輕軌的這個部分要設哪些站是要由地方政府來提出他的這個建議然後我們這邊再看看可行性的評估是怎麼樣然後再來做進行這樣子"},{"start":30577.315,"end":30599.112,"text":"好,也這邊跟院長報告,因為目前在我們的努力之下,因為從板橋接到中和舉光站這一站,中間剛好經過我們中和的壽德新村那邊。壽德新村那邊因為是屬於我們的眷村,老年人口很多,所以在我們的大家的努力之下,政府是有核定新的一個叫做壽德站。"},{"start":30599.853,"end":30616.967,"text":"好那就是未來會增加一個新的站體有受得站的出口那也感謝這邊的幫忙那我們希望的是說到了我們中和的舉光站因為舉光路這條路非常的長那未來我們希望還可以再往舉光路的北邊來延伸延伸到一個"},{"start":30617.828,"end":30621.411,"text":"這一個交通的建設都是中原地方要來攜手合作剛才我已經講過要增設這兩個站當然地方政府要提出"},{"start":30647.919,"end":30674.699,"text":"他的這個計畫讓我們中央這邊來做相關的審議那這個部分我也請部長簡單的說明一下各位報告現在太阪輕軌主要是跟萬大綜合樹林線連接舉光站那如果剛才有談到包括受信心的需求因為它是現在做可行性是新北市政府提出來的所以我想說你這個意見也是跟新北市政府提那我們會按照我們的行政程序來審查"},{"start":30676.169,"end":30689.14,"text":"好OK那再麻煩部長這邊再協助那第二個重點我剛剛一直提到綜合的人口眾多那有關於國道3號綜合出口的部分其實也是"},{"start":30689.721,"end":30713.617,"text":"民眾常常很多人擁捨在這邊跟院長報告在我們中和國道3號中和就只有一個交流道那基本上車潮非常的多每個小時的車潮會超過2000步的車潮而且時間長達7個小時所以只要只要院長如果有機會經過中和只要下街流道就發現那邊人都堵車堵得非常嚴重"},{"start":30714.246,"end":30735.148,"text":"那這邊最近也要感謝我們交通部高空局這邊有做一個協助有關於這個南向的部分因為當時我們中和的交流道很多南向的人要上班的人到中和的時候發現很多的人都堵在外線的一個車道在這邊堵車"},{"start":30736.289,"end":30762.052,"text":"那早是車潮非常的擁擠那比較遵守規定的人就在外線第一個車道排隊那比較會開車的人就走外線第二個車道插隊插進去那後來很多人在反映1999後來高空局就一不做二不休把原本這個出口外面的雙板線把它給延伸結果沒有延伸還好一延伸以後原本從外線二車道插隊的人就比較不敢插隊了"},{"start":30762.312,"end":30792.312,"text":"﹗"},{"start":30792.692,"end":30794.513,"text":"這些的部分這個剛才講的有一些調整的這個工程的部分是在"},{"start":30813.044,"end":30841.12,"text":"今年3月底的時候就會完工這是比較短期的部分那我們中長期的話可能有一個需要有一個改善的計畫要送到這個做可行性的評估那現在當然目前只有做短期的這個改善先來著手確實那裡很塞車我們大家都很清楚我們怎麼樣來做的話我想我要再次強調中央地方還是要來攜手合作"},{"start":30841.94,"end":30850.609,"text":"好 謝謝院長那接下來也要跟您報告其實這只是國道3號綜合出口現在目前應急的一個解決的方案那其實"},{"start":30851.334,"end":30873.198,"text":"現在高空局有提出一個14.9億的這個中期的計畫希望在我們的不管是南下北上的部分做一個14.9億的這個預算那主要是不管在南下的部分徵設一個閘道讓他可以直接連接這個板橋的出口因為過去一直以來不管是南下跟北上"},{"start":30873.838,"end":30897.979,"text":"他們的這個是造成一個南下北上有一個交織的一個問題導致很多人就會塞車塞在那邊那現在已經有做一個規劃的改善不管是南下他會做一個網板橋的閘道的出口或是北上他會增加一個新的新的一個這個叫路道一個車道增加一個新的車道"},{"start":30898.769,"end":30922.368,"text":"可是我這邊本席要拜託院長的部分是說我聽說這個整個案子他現在是交通部送可行性評估報告到行政院可是行政院這邊需要長達7年的時間才能讓整個案子來去做一個完成因為就本席而言就我剛剛跟您報告的部分我覺得這個整個改善的部分是新增"},{"start":30922.688,"end":30937.705,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":30937.865,"end":30960.841,"text":"委員你看在這個相冊裡面有一個不同的這個期程那實際上施工跟驗收是30個月可是前面還有一些的期程譬如說用地的取得就要一年還有這個工程設計等等的那所以我們如果能夠盡量的來說短我們盡量說短但是我這裡也要來強調就是說"},{"start":30962.602,"end":30978.217,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":30978.357,"end":30998.275,"text":"需要大家一起努力才有辦法把這個期程縮小。我覺得要拜託院長就像現在已經目前已經送到這個行政院做行政報告。就是說光是我們這個行政部核定的部分其實我覺得不需要長達一年的時間這邊的部分其實可以來做一個加速的"},{"start":31000.177,"end":31022.604,"text":"我們盡可能來進行但是這裡面我也要跟委員來報告就是說所有的工程在審查的過程當中我們都是很謹慎我們希望在審查能夠很完整的時候以後就會進行得更順利報告委員我補充一下就是說我們事實上已經復院了2月23號的時候"},{"start":31024.204,"end":31052.034,"text":"那可行性這個應該算是OK沒有問題但是後續可行性完以後牽涉到剛才提到用最麻煩的事情應該是用地取得我請教一下大概行政院會多久合定不是因為用地取得跟環評是地方政府要做的事情對如果地方政府這個部分做得快的話那那個工程就會順利很快那我請問一下可行性評估報告大概院會要花多久時間合定通常我們送院大概沒有意見就會很快就會合對啦"},{"start":31052.745,"end":31056.047,"text":"我們會盡速來辦理,也就是說各方面都要努力,不是只有中央這邊努力而已。那個土地徵收其實也是一個很大的挑戰。"},{"start":31088.307,"end":31096.19,"text":"第三個是我最重視的部分也是我覺得現在這個目前一直沒有進展的一個部分就是中和南視角的聯外道路的問題"},{"start":31097.47,"end":31118.611,"text":"大家都知道我們中和有一個非常知名的地標叫杭羅地,是拜土地公的比較逢年過節就會很多的好朋友,中和的鄉親或是外地來的好朋友到杭羅地來拜拜可是大家都知道這個南四角的這個它的地形比較特別尤其它的整個的交通狀況是屬於比較葫蘆形狀的就是"},{"start":31119.779,"end":31147.419,"text":"進去的口很窄可是腹地很大所以這邊要拜託我們院長這邊這個南四角的連外道路我們是希望拜託一下我們可以做一個往東我們可以連接連往安坑接往中安大橋讓我們很多不管是綜合的鄉親或是外地來的朋友不要從國道3號的出口進來然後從同一個路出去如果他可以有一個連外道路實際上是可以讓很多外來的好朋友來參拜的好朋友"},{"start":31147.759,"end":31149.34,"text":"這個就是我剛才提的交通的建設要來改善等等"},{"start":31166.769,"end":31166.789,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":31188.55,"end":31206.147,"text":"是請民間來做的那在這個做的過程當中我想一定要考慮到這個相關的可行性然後如果需要中央這邊來幫忙我們一定來幫忙但是這件事情應該地方政府扮演比較重要的角色"},{"start":31206.667,"end":31221.857,"text":"我這邊要拜託院長因為這其實在民國97年就做過可行性評估報告在110年又花了700萬又要再做一次可行性評估報告所以已經不管是我上一任的立法委員其實他也是認同"},{"start":31223.258,"end":31240.977,"text":"現在委員你其實掌握的很精準其實綜合最大的問題他的交通的改善就是像我們常常講的穿著西裝改西裝很困難的地方就在這裡所以"},{"start":31242.318,"end":31261.754,"text":"這個很多可能性評估即使做出來以後呢未來要施工進行的時候也是有很多的考量這個我想我們一起來努力啦這邊真的要拜託院長因為像我們其實常去木柵動物園其實木柵動物園過去跟這個臺北101其實就是有做一個信義隧道打通這個文山地區木柵動物園跟101"},{"start":31264.1,"end":31284.468,"text":"讓整個交通變得非常順暢,所以真的拜託院長,這個案子我一定會常常跟你請益,所以要拜託你多多幫我們關心。接下來我要請教院長的是有關於接避的一個問題,就是說國人其實在去年的時候一直擔心的一個問題,就是說我們當時很多的民眾認為他們所買到的"},{"start":31287.391,"end":31304.091,"text":"巴西進口的雞蛋的問題很多人認為這都是有問題的雞蛋所以在這邊我要請教一下院長相關的問題這是不正確的這個講法我先請教院長的部分當時這家公司叫做超思有限公司他當時的資本額是50萬"},{"start":31305.733,"end":31322.423,"text":"負責人叫秦宇橋出資才一千塊錢請問一下當時你們為什麼會找這家公司來進口巴西的雞蛋我先簡單講一下實際上超市公司他本身這一個老闆他是對於雞蛋的進出口很有經驗的"},{"start":31323.543,"end":31323.844,"text":"我跟委員說明"},{"start":31338.54,"end":31356.92,"text":"當初我們在雞蛋緊急進口的時候,那我們針對貿易商,因為那時候臺灣對於國外進口的雞蛋過去都沒有這樣的一個經驗,所以我們尋找的是一個有經驗,曾經進口雞蛋到臺灣的這些業者,那另外他本身...請問一下超市過去有從巴西進口到臺灣的經驗嗎?"},{"start":31358.456,"end":31361.9,"text":"他沒有,但是他有進口雞蛋到臺灣的經驗。因為他應該在111年的時候就有進口雞蛋到臺灣的經驗。日本到臺灣的雞蛋。從巴西進口蛋到日本。"},{"start":31381.124,"end":31386.49,"text":"我想請教院長的是,超思從111年,當時好像是5月份才成立的,他才成立兩個月,其實國人不知道的是說,當時為什麼續產會會請超思進口日本的雞蛋,進口1000多顆的雞蛋?"},{"start":31403.487,"end":31405.888,"text":"議長,我跟您請教,他才成立兩個月,他的"},{"start":31420.717,"end":31423.619,"text":"我請教一下當時超司跟因為我們都知道齁當時在111年的時候這時候農業部長陳其仲其實跟人民說那時候是不缺蛋的"},{"start":31449.119,"end":31476.058,"text":"可是不曉得為什麼要請超司從日本進口一千多萬顆的雞蛋那我先請教一下這些雞蛋一顆進口大概多少錢我們現在目前因為一百一十一年的時候並沒有專案一百一十二年專案進口那一百一十一年那是因為剛好我請教一下一顆雞蛋大概進口多少錢他本身報價CF報價大概是五十五一箱所以換算起來有到七點六到十塊之間"},{"start":31478.001,"end":31478.161,"text":"我跟委員說明"},{"start":31504.67,"end":31520.361,"text":"徐常惠本身他是做產業調節的,都是在國內的雞蛋之間調度。那2月間因為全球都有發生蛋荒,那個時候甚至於已經達到搶蛋的這樣子一個階段。 112年的時候。"},{"start":31525.56,"end":31534.386,"text":"那個我剛剛跟您報告齁,我說續產會請超市買雞蛋的時候是在111年,請他進去...111年就有部分做調節的時候他有去買。"},{"start":31536.616,"end":31559.323,"text":"所以我請問說為什麼當時續產會他不親自去買日本的雞蛋要透過超市去買日本的雞蛋?我想很多貿易本身的雞蛋貿易本身你要有對這個雞蛋的貿易是有熟悉的為什麼續產會沒有這樣的能力嗎?每年國人給了這麼多的預算以及續產會有這麼多人員而且當時我們知道是說日本的雞蛋其實是比其他東南亞國家來的貴"},{"start":31564.252,"end":31578.48,"text":"簡單來講,我跟院長報告,這樣就會讓國人認為其實是有圖利而且偏愛超市的這樣一個情形,請院長回答。我想很重要的續場會他的所有的職長當中很重要的一個職長是調整、調節我們的這個豬肉的供應為主。"},{"start":31579.801,"end":31592.147,"text":"那這一個雞蛋的進口是一個專業,我們不要忘掉說這是一個專業,不是說我們到超市場買一盒雞蛋回來這樣子。我請教一下院長,那為什麼?國際的廠商的連結才有辦法去處理,那我們中央續產會並沒有這樣的國際進口雞蛋的這樣的一個經驗,他沒有。"},{"start":31603.893,"end":31630.536,"text":"為什麼不請其他廠商一定要請超市來進口?就是我剛才講過我們當初其實我們都有洽詢了非常多的貿易商以我們了解當時還是不是很缺雞蛋的時候嗎?對但是他不像113年3月就是去年3月那麼嚴重但是那時候還有一些波動所以當國內的調度沒有辦法滿足的時候那時候續產會有一部分是透過貿易商從日本先調度"},{"start":31632.86,"end":31643.395,"text":"是巨產會請超市從日本先購買1000多萬顆的雞蛋嗎?對,他買了以後,他不是用合意的方式請問大概一顆的價格買多少錢?你剛剛講是大概多少錢?"},{"start":31644.451,"end":31669.69,"text":"我們講平均那時候大概是7.6塊到10塊之間包含關稅跟沒有不包含關稅的部分我們是買斷的部分那詳細的資料我想我們如果能夠了解的話可以廢後給你廢後再給委員因為這個數字不太容易記得所以我也跟委員說明以我的態度就是我們能夠公開可以提供給委員我們絕對不會惡意的就是故意的說不提供"},{"start":31670.33,"end":31695.316,"text":"那相關的因為有一些相關的這些資訊符合政府資訊公開法的部分他有不適合提供的我們才不會提供特別是牽涉到他本身之間的貿易之間的這些廠商他們的相關的營業秘密我們才不會給所以說會後可以提供我超市當時進口日本雞蛋的報價單那個價格我大概可以提供給你而且我聽說是說有沒有簽合約"},{"start":31696.854,"end":31697.455,"text":"不同的採購方式"},{"start":31715.868,"end":31734.407,"text":"其實本席要提的就是說這就是人民覺得對超市有意見的地方因為超市當時在111年的時候只成立了兩個月人民不知道的是他只成立兩個月去產會就請他從日本進口了一千多萬顆的雞蛋到隔年112年的3月那時候他不知道為什麼停業"},{"start":31735.228,"end":31747.616,"text":"然後3月份的時候續產會又請他進口8千多萬顆的雞蛋。而且今天的報導也顯示現在所有的當時進口進來的雞蛋還有5千多萬顆是等待要報廢的。"},{"start":31748.939,"end":31777.248,"text":"所以照我的了解來講我要跟院長報告就是說在不缺蛋的時候請超私進口日本雞蛋在真正缺蛋的時候請超私進口巴西的雞蛋結果進口進來了以後又跟大家說因為不好意思這個雞蛋現在已經不是那麼缺了所以剩下還有5000多塊顆的雞蛋等著報廢這是院長我覺得這是浪費人民的納稅錢院長你怎麼看"},{"start":31777.884,"end":31800.92,"text":"在所有的這個雞蛋的供應的過程當中我們在當時確實是缺蛋所以需要有從國外來進口那進口的蛋本來就有兩種用途一個是當殼蛋賣一個就是當液蛋來處理那在當時的估算我們一天大概少兩百"},{"start":31801.961,"end":31826.751,"text":"兩百萬顆嘛所以我們就按照這樣的估計來進來但是呢當我們開始進口這個雞蛋的時候呢我們民間的護養的部分呢也有慢慢的上來那在上來的時候我們原先已經跟人家訂好契約的這個部分當然還要繼續進口嘛所以才會有所謂的剩餘的這個部分那我們盡可能的把它種業蛋來處理是這樣子的"},{"start":31827.513,"end":31831.266,"text":"我的問壇報告齁,這個其實你們沒有用業單來處理,你們是整個雞蛋全部都要報廢齁?"},{"start":31834.459,"end":31853.456,"text":"我跟委員說明當初那個時候的雞蛋我們調度到席選場那3月份進來的時候我們已經很成功的議制相關的那個國內的雞蛋滿足了以後那一旦進口了以後我們國內的附養上來我們也不願意說把我們手中的續產會把手中的雞蛋市場市場這樣的話會打擊到國內的產業"},{"start":31857.579,"end":31879.111,"text":"所以院長這邊我們還是要希望第一個你們可以提供我有關於續產會當時請託這個超市111年進口日本蛋的報價單我想要了解那相關的金流可不可以提供給我到底為什麼一家50萬資本的公司他有那麼大的能力去進口1000多萬克的雞蛋這樣的這個金流可不可以提供給本席"},{"start":31879.471,"end":31905.122,"text":"我跟委員再一次大概30秒就可以齁。我們在進口雞蛋的時候每一批的蛋款都是由超市先付。第二個就是他有兩張本票將近4000萬是在合約裡面是押著的。那是巴西,是巴西。對對巴西的部分。那這就是讓本席就覺得質疑的他是不是因為是因為進口日本雞蛋所賺的錢讓他有這麼大的金額的本票。沒有沒有沒有。或是存款的金額可以來去做這個單保的部分。我覺得這是不對的齁。"},{"start":31915.928,"end":31923.913,"text":"所以基本上只要你提供這個資料本席就可以了解說這中間沒有利益輸送的問題那我請教一下可不可以提供我超市的股東名單"},{"start":31927.755,"end":31943.348,"text":"因為這個是有關於食安健康的問題,如果可以讓民眾知道說進口超市的雞蛋這些股東跟本身政府單位人員其實是沒有任何的利益糾葛的話,我其實認為大家對這個進口雞蛋的問題也不會認為政府如此的護航超市。"},{"start":31944.815,"end":31971.287,"text":"我想我在這裏要澄清一次我們進口的雞蛋都沒有食安的問題只是說我們進來的時候呢我要跟委員長報告他當時進口的時候的確有發生他進口出來檢驗出來的雞蛋是有問題的確是有發生食安問題我要跟委員說一下那個有問題的雞蛋是我們在邊境攔檢的時候查到了所以這些雞蛋就是退役我需要會後好不好我需要會後院長還是可以提供我這樣的資料那我要進行第三題"},{"start":31972.557,"end":31994.143,"text":"有關於最近那個新聞一直報導說4月份電費即將漲價我在這邊是不是可以跟院長請議一下為什麼電費4月份一定要漲價因為過去以來不管是蔡英文總統一直說電費10年不能漲那現在說電費要漲價我覺得這全民都不能認同那尤其大家都知道綠電現在是"},{"start":31996.404,"end":32015.703,"text":"大家的坊間都在傳綠油油,綠能就是可以賺大錢,然後台電虧損。那我這邊希望院長這個部分,第一個因為時間的關係是不是可以答應我說,因為4月份漲電價馬上就到用電高峰的時期,是不是可以等到520未來或者是下半年度以後才漲電價。"},{"start":32016.964,"end":32037.25,"text":"我們本來就是4月份就是要有調整那這個調整的幅度大概是多少有電價審議委員會有電價審議委員會對電價審議委員會不是一年開幾次兩次那是不是可以等到下半年再來調整因為基本上因為我記得美化部長也有說他說如果不調整電價的話到年底"},{"start":32038.05,"end":32038.53,"text":"對整個臺電的財務有很大的風險。"},{"start":32055.279,"end":32055.459,"text":"我們是按時間來調啦"},{"start":32082.641,"end":32097.499,"text":"每年開兩次會,是不是可以苦民所苦,到下半年度再來做這個電費的調整?或者是說可以有部分來去做調整,到底是要漲多少電費,是不是可以這邊說明一下?我想我們剛才講過一定是電價審議委員會做最後的拍板來決定。"},{"start":32101.203,"end":32104.866,"text":"最後再拜託院長,因為我們有去查綠電相關的公司有一家公司我螢幕上有表示他在最近這幾年他的EPS成長很多"},{"start":32144.455,"end":32166.029,"text":"謝謝張委員志倫的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。張委員剛剛所提的拜託行政院相關部會提供資料給張志倫委員。謝謝。報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。謝謝陳院長、鄭副院長以及各部會首長列席答詢。先來做以下決定。下次會議繼續進行施政方針及施政報告之質詢。"},{"start":32167.491,"end":32173.544,"text":"另外跟院會報告繼續處理復議案兩件。一、本院委員林佩祥等"},{"start":32175.66,"end":32203.245,"text":"針對本會期第3次會議．包括事項第105案至108案．第111案至113案及第118案．至決定提出復議請公決案．先來做以下決定令定其處理。二、本院委員張志倫等人針對本會期第2次會議．包括事項第68案至第77案．至決定提出復議．"},{"start":32204.986,"end":32216.945,"text":"請公決案,現在作以下決定,令定期處理。報告委員會本次會議進行到此為止,現在散會。謝謝大家。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}