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d":620.002,"text":"教育部這邊我們未來我們來看學校端我們跟地方政府跟文化部還有學校我們共同來合作來保留補助是一定要的但是你還有相關的法律工具所以我看你們要總體有一個計畫出來不要說再發生像曹永和故居我個人是非常心痛"},{"start":621.322,"end":637.849,"text":"因為你少了前面的調查研究工作所以你送到文字會的時候當然它的歷史意義還沒有被呈現出來好那就希望我們接下來要跨部會來協助學校接下來我要請臺大醫院的院長吳明賢院長是副校長嗎也請留步"},{"start":646.718,"end":667.934,"text":"好這個部長我要關心的是在我的選區喔臺大醫院有北戶分院就在內江街跟康定路口那首先我要非常感謝因為在疫情的時候我整個區域內能夠收治確診同時又需要洗腎患者的就只有我們北戶分院我非常的感謝你們救了我們很多民眾的"},{"start":668.174,"end":670.115,"text":"主題是希望我們要把老年醫療跟長期照護可以合一一條龍,養護結合"},{"start":684.921,"end":708.135,"text":"院長我現在要關心的是你計劃核定的沒有因為我每天經過民眾都在忙啊你們就在我們社區旁邊你們現在這個本戶要先送計劃給臺大醫院嘛臺大醫院要送計劃給臺大臺灣大學嘛臺灣大學要送計劃給教育部嘛如果說未來需要國發會公建的補助的話還要再送給國發會嘛你們現在到底進度到哪裡了"},{"start":709.415,"end":738.203,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個事情因為臺灣已經早就是超高齡社會那20%超過20%是65歲以上的人口那在北部因為我們注意到萬華區其實超過25%所以我們很早就要建構一個老人醫學跟長照的一個一條龍的整合型特別是為什麼在北部他需要蓋第二道因為我們發現我們北部的護理支架"},{"start":739.163,"end":758.91,"text":"等候6個月所以我們已經這個計畫已經送到行政院那整個計畫還沒有完全回來不過其實我們希望國發會可以以前可以補足30%因為據說據說我現在拿到的是說只補23%但是我們醫院這個整個計畫是17.7億的醫院本身會出"},{"start":767.954,"end":792.57,"text":"總願會贊助9.9億元北戶婚宴本身會籌資2.49億所以希望政府可以給我們補助30%這個計畫的總經費是17.7億那院長你們家分院可以自籌到幾成我們自己籌7成你們籌7成啊好這個計畫已經送到教育部來了嘛是不是已經從臺南大學已經送到我們教育部了好那請這個請部長回答部長"},{"start":798.214,"end":813.568,"text":"這個我希望啊這個臺大醫院的北戶分院對我們社區以及對我們臺北市整體的老年醫院來講非常重要關鍵那據我所知過去這個公園光跑就跑了快半年所以我要拜託你們這個案子我們來大力支持可不可以"},{"start":815.527,"end":835.032,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們會協助臺大北戶分院來做一些詳細的規劃因為他們在中間的過程當中確實有經費的一些調整跟一些因應物條的部分有做一些修正那這個部分我們會後續回來協助跟支持好感謝謝謝主席各位請回部長校長請回謝謝吳佩奕委員的質詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:53:03+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-14T11:53:06.306500+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我請教育部鄭部長。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-14T11:53:06.306500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-14T11:53:09.613000+08:00","text":"有請鄭部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:53:09.613000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-14T11:53:12.919500+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-14T11:53:12.919500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-14T11:53:16.226000+08:00","text":"委員好，抱歉！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:53:16.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:53:47.495000+08:00","text":"部長，今天我們是審查教育部的預算，那高等教育當然是我們教育部的重點業務，所以今天全臺灣國立大學的校長也都來到現場，齊聚在這裡，一起要來審查我們的高教預算。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:53:48.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:54:02.705000+08:00","text":"部長，因為過去我在臺北市議會，所以我們在審學校預算的時候，是國小、國中、高中的校長也會來向我們說明每一所學校的預算，其中大學過去就只有審查到一所臺北市立大學。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:54:03.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:54:11.760000+08:00","text":"是不是全臺灣除了市立大學以外，大部分我們高等教育的經費都是由中央的預算來支持的？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-14T11:54:12.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:54:34.013000+08:00","text":"基本上以我們現在法令的規範，確實國立大學我們……但是因為它也有一些制度上的改變，過去是公務預算，現在是校務基金，所以政府基本上會根據過去學校的規模、員額跟教學研究上必須要的基本需求，我們會給予一些補助。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:54:34.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:54:38.655000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，不同的預算來源，但是主要是中央來支持。是。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:54:40.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:54:57.022000+08:00","text":"高等預算當然需要中央支持，我看到臺灣大學有帶頭來呼籲，希望我們高教前瞻要持續推動，也希望政府要加強對高等教育的投資，我看好幾所學校也都有回應、都有響應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:54:57.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:55:03.305000+08:00","text":"我今天看我們預算書裡面高等教育這一目，今年的預算是1,228億元，明年我們會增加，增加了60億元，也就是會來到1,332億元，其他先不管，這個大概占教育部的單位預算七成。","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:55:16.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:55:25.282000+08:00","text":"要給國立大學的補助裡面，明年的也會比今年度再增加13億元，總共是521億元。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:55:25.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:55:32.307000+08:00","text":"像我大學部的母校臺大分配到50億元，我碩士班的母校清華大學也會分配到21億元。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:55:32.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:55:35.049000+08:00","text":"但不只這些，因為其他還有計畫性的補助。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:55:35.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:55:50.635000+08:00","text":"但是今天在這個地方，我必須要向大家來說明，也必須要開啟討論的是，上個禮拜也就在我們今天這個會議場所，國民黨主要去強推了財劃法的修法。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:55:51.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:56:05.499000+08:00","text":"在程序有疑慮的情況之下，當時就在范雲委員召委這個位置，財政委員會的國民黨召委陳玉珍就已經把這個版本送出委員會，甚至現在要排政黨協商。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:56:06.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:56:19.208000+08:00","text":"根據試算，現在送出委員會的這個財劃法修法的版本，會讓中央的整體預算短少了6,600億元。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:56:19.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:56:39.024000+08:00","text":"部長，我現在請問你，如果中央這個大水庫總預算少了6,600億元，教育部有沒有辦法，如同你現在在媒體所回應大學校長的，教育部對高等教育的支持預算會逐年來增加？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:56:40.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:56:50.018000+08:00","text":"部長，以你對你現在業務的了解，你認為如果中央的預算短少了六千多億元，你做得到逐年再去提升給高等教育的預算嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-14T11:56:51.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:56:57.545000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我剛才所提的當然基本上就是來自於我們現有制度經費上的分配。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-14T11:56:58.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:57:12.678000+08:00","text":"如果在總體的預算上，因為制度、規範改變了，那當然在對高等教育，不僅是高等教育，包括在各級教育上，經費當然一定會面臨一些挑戰……","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:57:13.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:57:17.525000+08:00","text":"一定會面臨挑戰，甚至它就是一個非常巨大的衝擊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:57:17.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:57:26.236000+08:00","text":"我直接就說了，總體預算短少6六千多億元，中央可以給教育部的預算絕對會減少。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:57:26.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:57:34.646000+08:00","text":"也就是你在砍我們總預算，你就在砍我們高等教育的預算，我們必須在這裡要有這樣的認知啊！","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:57:35.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:57:42.549000+08:00","text":"十年樹木，百年樹人，教育經費是何等重要的事，我非常地心痛！","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:57:42.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:57:46.710000+08:00","text":"上個禮拜也就在這個會議場所，我想要來發言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:57:47.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:57:59.102000+08:00","text":"我是臺北市選民選出來的民意代表，我必須要向市民報告現在我們的政府財政正在面臨什麼樣的危機，但是我連發言的機會都沒有。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:57:59.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:57:59.722000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:57:59.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:58:09.689000+08:00","text":"我們現在使用的這個麥克風，在上個禮拜會議進行的時候，在野黨是把麥克風的電線拉掉，我連發言的機會都沒有。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:58:09.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:58:24.400000+08:00","text":"所以我今天一定要在這裡清楚地表示，我身為教委會的委員，我非常地支持，也要求教育部要來逐年提升對高等教育的預算支持，因為這是人才的培育。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:58:25.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:58:31.286000+08:00","text":"臺灣的學術研究在國際上面有我們的競爭力，我們要支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:58:32.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:58:36.089000+08:00","text":"但是該我們捍衛預算的時候，我們要向國人說明清楚啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:58:36.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:58:39.032000+08:00","text":"不是政治歸政治，教育歸教育。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:58:39.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:58:41.434000+08:00","text":"我正擔心的就是，因為我還要爭取預算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:58:41.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:58:42.996000+08:00","text":"部長，等一下我還要跟你爭取預算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:58:44.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:58:52.786000+08:00","text":"我就擔心如果你的預算被砍了，可能砍到五成或將近六成，我怎麼可能還來增加預算？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:58:54.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:58:58.710000+08:00","text":"所以這是我們現在共同遇到的難題，但是我們會繼續努力捍衛。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:58:58.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:59:02.392000+08:00","text":"要告訴市民，這些預算我們拿來做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:59:02.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:59:07.794000+08:00","text":"我們拿來支持教育，尤其高等教育千萬不能被政治的惡鬥所犧牲。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:59:08.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:59:12.717000+08:00","text":"接下來我要請臺灣大學的陳文章校長。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:59:12.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:59:17.759000+08:00","text":"部長，我也要跟你關心的是，我過去當議員的時候，就很關心臺大的文化資產。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:59:21.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:59:34.307000+08:00","text":"審計部有一棟，就在我們附近忠孝東路，昭和樓，日本時代的書店，我甚至是那棟文資的提報人，所以當時是我到市政府文資審議會去說明的，也感謝民間團體協助我們整理資料。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:59:35.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:59:45.653000+08:00","text":"據我所知，今年七月的時候監察院有一份調查報告，是關於臺大的文化資產保存，我能不能請校長來回答？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:59:46.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:59:46.873000+08:00","text":"請問校長有沒有看過這份報告？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"丁副校長詩同","start":"2024-11-14T11:59:50.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:59:53.199000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們校長因為現在有……請假？","quality":1},{"speaker":"丁副校長詩同","start":"2024-11-14T11:59:54.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:59:56.422000+08:00","text":"對，他剛剛離開，沒辦法，因為學校有活動。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T11:59:56.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T11:59:57.842000+08:00","text":"沒關係，由你代為說明。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"丁副校長詩同","start":"2024-11-14T11:59:58.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:00:07.509000+08:00","text":"我想要講的是，我們臺大有70棟大樓是被列為歷史建物，所以現在在保護的這一棟是……幾棟？70棟。70棟？對。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:00:08.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:00:12.673000+08:00","text":"就是列為文資的，包含古蹟及歷建是嗎？是的。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:00:14.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:00:21.979000+08:00","text":"監察院的報告裡面給你們的建議是，確實臺大的文資數量太為龐大。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:00:23.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:00:34.444000+08:00","text":"臺北市本來就是全臺灣古蹟最多的城市，不是臺南，是在臺北市，其中最多數量就在中正區，也是我的選區，那臺大又是我的母校，所以我當然關心。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:00:35.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:00:41.887000+08:00","text":"總共臺北市537處的文化資產裡面，超過1/10都在臺大。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:00:44.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:00:53.073000+08:00","text":"我們非常清楚，你要去修復一個文資需要花費多少的時間及成本，還包括後續的管理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:00:53.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:01.818000+08:00","text":"所以我目前看到的是，臺大編列在修繕文資的經費目前每一年是編列多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:02.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:02.558000+08:00","text":"能不能說明？","quality":1},{"speaker":"丁副校長詩同","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:03.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:04.559000+08:00","text":"約略是3,000萬元左右。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:05.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:05.620000+08:00","text":"每一年？","quality":1},{"speaker":"丁副校長詩同","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:06.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:06.660000+08:00","text":"實際上是嚴重的不足。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:06.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:07.501000+08:00","text":"實際上是嚴重不足？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:11.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:12.036000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:12.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:24.945000+08:00","text":"我在看這個數量，你剛剛講的68處是歷建文資，但是臺大的日本宿舍還沒有被提報的總共加起來有多少棟？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:24.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:26.166000+08:00","text":"超過100棟。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:26.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:26.566000+08:00","text":"我請部長回應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:26.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:40.696000+08:00","text":"部長，我看了監察院的調查報告，我也建議你們團隊有時間的話，這個報告應該把它看完。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:41.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:01:53.169000+08:00","text":"其實監委有給我們建議，因為這個也不是教育部，教育部一個單位我看也沒辦法處理，這是一個地方政府都沒辦法負擔的責任。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:01:53.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:02:06.079000+08:00","text":"所以監委是建議請教育部跟文化部，因為文化部也本來就有修復歷建文資的計畫補助，不管是私有、民間或是公有的都有在補助。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:02:06.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:02:09.861000+08:00","text":"臺大過去有一案是文化部補助，但是只有一案，顯然不夠。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:02:09.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:02:22.208000+08:00","text":"內政部也有相關的一些法規，例如現在可能文資法也有容轉等等，所以我希望教育部可以找文化部跟內政部一起來討論。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:02:22.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:02:26.429000+08:00","text":"不只是臺大，其他的大學都有相關的負擔。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:02:26.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:02:32.652000+08:00","text":"我們不要把修房子、整修的負擔通通讓學校自己來承擔，它有很多校務要去經營。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:02:32.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:02:39.696000+08:00","text":"能不能教育部來協助，找文化部、內政部一起來研討，在審查預算之前給我一個對於法規的初步盤點？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-14T12:02:41.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:02:55.706000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心這些具有歷史性的文化資產，我想以我們目前在大學端的文化資產，文化部訂有辦法，但是我們不會逃避責任。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-14T12:02:56.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:03:01.070000+08:00","text":"因為在我過去擔任校長的時候，確實我也整修過，跟文化部一起處理。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:03:01.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:03:02.531000+08:00","text":"所以教育部也可以先來補助？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-14T12:03:03.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:03:11.876000+08:00","text":"教育部這邊，我們來看學校端，我們跟地方政府、文化部還有學校共同來合作、來保留……","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:03:11.876000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-14T12:03:12.876000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:03:12.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:03:32.005000+08:00","text":"補助是一定要的，但是你還有相關的法律工具，所以我看你們總體要有一個計畫出來，不要再發生像曹永和故居的事，我個人是非常心痛，因為少了前面的調查研究工作，所以送到文資會的時候，當然它的歷史意涵沒有被呈現出來。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:03:32.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:03:34.927000+08:00","text":"好，那就希望接下來要跨部會來協助學校。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:03:36.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:03:40.829000+08:00","text":"接下來我要請臺大醫院的吳明賢院長，副校長也請留步。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:03:51.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:03:57.624000+08:00","text":"院長，我要關心的是在我的選區臺大醫院有北護分院，就在內江街跟康定路口。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:03:58.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:04:10.914000+08:00","text":"首先我要非常感謝，因為在疫情的時候，我整個區域內能夠收治確診同時又需要洗腎患者的，就只有北護分院，我非常感謝你們救了我們很多民眾一命，他們家人至今都感謝你們。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:04:11.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:04:13.095000+08:00","text":"我知道北護分院現在要進行增建計畫，就是第二醫療大樓，主題是希望可以把老年醫療跟長期照護合一成為一條龍，養護結合，是不是這個樣子？是。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:04:27.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:04:30.943000+08:00","text":"院長，我現在要關心的是，你們的計畫核定了沒有？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:04:31.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:04:33.684000+08:00","text":"因為我每天經過，民眾都在問啊！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:04:33.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:04:36.026000+08:00","text":"你們就在我們社區旁邊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:04:36.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:04:45.131000+08:00","text":"現在北護要先送計畫給臺大醫院，臺大醫院要送計畫給臺灣大學，臺灣大學要送計畫給教育部。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:04:45.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:04:49.554000+08:00","text":"如果說未來需要國發會公建的補助的話，還要再送給國發會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:04:49.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:04:51.115000+08:00","text":"你們現在到底進度到哪裡了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2024-11-14T12:04:52.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:05:03.658000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心這個事情，因為臺灣早就已經是超高齡社會，超過20%是65歲以上的人口。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2024-11-14T12:05:04.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:05:15.001000+08:00","text":"在北護，因為我們注意到萬華區其實超過25%，所以我們很早就要建構一個老人醫學跟長照一條龍的整合型。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2024-11-14T12:05:15.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:05:18.682000+08:00","text":"特別是為什麼在北護需要蓋第二大樓？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2024-11-14T12:05:19.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:05:26.365000+08:00","text":"因為我們發現北護的護理之家就等候了6個月，所以我們這個計畫已經送到行政院。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2024-11-14T12:05:27.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:05:40.210000+08:00","text":"整個計畫還沒有完全回來，不過其實我們希望國發會可以……以前可以補足30%，因為據說我現在拿到的是只補23%。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2024-11-14T12:05:40.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:00.660000+08:00","text":"這整個計畫是17.7億元，醫院本身會出，總院會贊助9.9億元，北護分院本身會籌資2.49億元，所以希望政府可以給我們補助30%。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:00.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:03.482000+08:00","text":"這個計畫的總經費是17.7億元？對。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:03.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:05.684000+08:00","text":"院長你們分院可以自籌到幾成？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:06.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:06.844000+08:00","text":"我們自己籌七成。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:07.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:08.285000+08:00","text":"你們籌七成啊？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:10.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:11.588000+08:00","text":"計畫已經從臺灣大學送到教育部了？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"吳院長明賢","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:13.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:14.490000+08:00","text":"對，已經送過去了。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:14.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:15.330000+08:00","text":"好，那請部長回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:15.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:29.141000+08:00","text":"部長，臺大醫院北護分院對我們社區、對我們臺北市整體的老年醫院來講非常重要、關鍵。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:30.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:36.548000+08:00","text":"據我所知，過去這個公文光跑就跑了快半年了，所以我要拜託你們，這個案子我們來大力支持，可不可以？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:38.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:53.286000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個部分我們會協助臺大北護分院來做一些詳細的規劃，因為他們在中間的過程當中確實有經費的一些調整，以及因應物調的部分有做一些修正，這個部分我們後續會來協助跟支持。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:53.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:54.988000+08:00","text":"好，感謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:54.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:56.230000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，各位請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:56.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-14T12:06:58.032000+08:00","text":"部長、校長請回，謝謝吳沛憶委員的質詢。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-14T12:06:58.532000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-14T12:07:01.389143+08:00","text":"再來請黃健豪委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":616,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（11時53分）謝謝主席，我請教育部鄭部長。"],["主席：有請鄭部長。"],["吳委員沛憶：部長好。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好，抱歉！"],["吳委員沛憶：部長，今天我們是審查教育部的預算，那高等教育當然是我們教育部的重點業務，所以今天全臺灣國立大學的校長也都來到現場，齊聚在這裡，一起要來審查我們的高教預算。部長，因為過去我在臺北市議會，所以我們在審學校預算的時候，是國小、國中、高中的校長也會來向我們說明每一所學校的預算，其中大學過去就只有審查到一所臺北市立大學。是不是全臺灣除了市立大學以外，大部分我們高等教育的經費都是由中央的預算來支持的？"],["鄭部長英耀：基本上以我們現在法令的規範，確實國立大學我們……但是因為它也有一些制度上的改變，過去是公務預算，現在是校務基金，所以政府基本上會根據過去學校的規模、員額跟教學研究上必須要的基本需求，我們會給予一些補助。"],["吳委員沛憶：沒有錯，不同的預算來源，但是主要是中央來支持。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：高等預算當然需要中央支持，我看到臺灣大學有帶頭來呼籲，希望我們高教前瞻要持續推動，也希望政府要加強對高等教育的投資，我看好幾所學校也都有回應、都有響應。我今天看我們預算書裡面高等教育這一目，今年的預算是1,228億元，明年我們會增加，增加了60億元，也就是會來到1,332億元，其他先不管，這個大概占教育部的單位預算七成。要給國立大學的補助裡面，明年的也會比今年度再增加13億元，總共是521億元。像我大學部的母校臺大分配到50億元，我碩士班的母校清華大學也會分配到21億元。但不只這些，因為其他還有計畫性的補助。","但是今天在這個地方，我必須要向大家來說明，也必須要開啟討論的是，上個禮拜也就在我們今天這個會議場所，國民黨主要去強推了財劃法的修法。在程序有疑慮的情況之下，當時就在范雲委員召委這個位置，財政委員會的國民黨召委陳玉珍就已經把這個版本送出委員會，甚至現在要排政黨協商。根據試算，現在送出委員會的這個財劃法修法的版本，會讓中央的整體預算短少了6,600億元。部長，我現在請問你，如果中央這個大水庫總預算少了6,600億元，教育部有沒有辦法，如同你現在在媒體所回應大學校長的，教育部對高等教育的支持預算會逐年來增加？部長，以你對你現在業務的了解，你認為如果中央的預算短少了六千多億元，你做得到逐年再去提升給高等教育的預算嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我剛才所提的當然基本上就是來自於我們現有制度經費上的分配。如果在總體的預算上，因為制度、規範改變了，那當然在對高等教育，不僅是高等教育，包括在各級教育上，經費當然一定會面臨一些挑戰……"],["吳委員沛憶：一定會面臨挑戰，甚至它就是一個非常巨大的衝擊。我直接就說了，總體預算短少6六千多億元，中央可以給教育部的預算絕對會減少。也就是你在砍我們總預算，你就在砍我們高等教育的預算，我們必須在這裡要有這樣的認知啊！十年樹木，百年樹人，教育經費是何等重要的事，我非常地心痛！","上個禮拜也就在這個會議場所，我想要來發言。我是臺北市選民選出來的民意代表，我必須要向市民報告現在我們的政府財政正在面臨什麼樣的危機，但是我連發言的機會都沒有。為什麼？我們現在使用的這個麥克風，在上個禮拜會議進行的時候，在野黨是把麥克風的電線拉掉，我連發言的機會都沒有。所以我今天一定要在這裡清楚地表示，我身為教委會的委員，我非常地支持，也要求教育部要來逐年提升對高等教育的預算支持，因為這是人才的培育。","臺灣的學術研究在國際上面有我們的競爭力，我們要支持。但是該我們捍衛預算的時候，我們要向國人說明清楚啊！不是政治歸政治，教育歸教育。我正擔心的就是，因為我還要爭取預算。部長，等一下我還要跟你爭取預算。我就擔心如果你的預算被砍了，可能砍到五成或將近六成，我怎麼可能還來增加預算？所以這是我們現在共同遇到的難題，但是我們會繼續努力捍衛。要告訴市民，這些預算我們拿來做什麼？我們拿來支持教育，尤其高等教育千萬不能被政治的惡鬥所犧牲。","接下來我要請臺灣大學的陳文章校長。部長，我也要跟你關心的是，我過去當議員的時候，就很關心臺大的文化資產。審計部有一棟，就在我們附近忠孝東路，昭和樓，日本時代的書店，我甚至是那棟文資的提報人，所以當時是我到市政府文資審議會去說明的，也感謝民間團體協助我們整理資料。據我所知，今年七月的時候監察院有一份調查報告，是關於臺大的文化資產保存，我能不能請校長來回答？請問校長有沒有看過這份報告？"],["丁副校長詩同：報告委員，我們校長因為現在有……"],["吳委員沛憶：請假？"],["丁副校長詩同：對，他剛剛離開，沒辦法，因為學校有活動。"],["吳委員沛憶：沒關係，由你代為說明。"],["丁副校長詩同：我想要講的是，我們臺大有70棟大樓是被列為歷史建物，所以現在在保護的這一棟是……"],["吳委員沛憶：幾棟？"],["丁副校長詩同：70棟。"],["吳委員沛憶：70棟？"],["丁副校長詩同：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：就是列為文資的，包含古蹟及歷建是嗎？"],["丁副校長詩同：是的。"],["吳委員沛憶：監察院的報告裡面給你們的建議是，確實臺大的文資數量太為龐大。臺北市本來就是全臺灣古蹟最多的城市，不是臺南，是在臺北市，其中最多數量就在中正區，也是我的選區，那臺大又是我的母校，所以我當然關心。總共臺北市537處的文化資產裡面，超過1/10都在臺大。我們非常清楚，你要去修復一個文資需要花費多少的時間及成本，還包括後續的管理。所以我目前看到的是，臺大編列在修繕文資的經費目前每一年是編列多少？能不能說明？"],["丁副校長詩同：約略是3,000萬元左右。"],["吳委員沛憶：每一年？"],["丁副校長詩同：實際上是嚴重的不足。"],["吳委員沛憶：實際上是嚴重不足？沒有錯。我在看這個數量，你剛剛講的68處是歷建文資，但是臺大的日本宿舍還沒有被提報的總共加起來有多少棟？超過100棟。我請部長回應。","部長，我看了監察院的調查報告，我也建議你們團隊有時間的話，這個報告應該把它看完。其實監委有給我們建議，因為這個也不是教育部，教育部一個單位我看也沒辦法處理，這是一個地方政府都沒辦法負擔的責任。所以監委是建議請教育部跟文化部，因為文化部也本來就有修復歷建文資的計畫補助，不管是私有、民間或是公有的都有在補助。臺大過去有一案是文化部補助，但是只有一案，顯然不夠。內政部也有相關的一些法規，例如現在可能文資法也有容轉等等，所以我希望教育部可以找文化部跟內政部一起來討論。不只是臺大，其他的大學都有相關的負擔。我們不要把修房子、整修的負擔通通讓學校自己來承擔，它有很多校務要去經營。能不能教育部來協助，找文化部、內政部一起來研討，在審查預算之前給我一個對於法規的初步盤點？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員關心這些具有歷史性的文化資產，我想以我們目前在大學端的文化資產，文化部訂有辦法，但是我們不會逃避責任。因為在我過去擔任校長的時候，確實我也整修過，跟文化部一起處理。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以教育部也可以先來補助？"],["鄭部長英耀：教育部這邊，我們來看學校端，我們跟地方政府、文化部還有學校共同來合作、來保留……"],["吳委員沛憶：謝謝部長。補助是一定要的，但是你還有相關的法律工具，所以我看你們總體要有一個計畫出來，不要再發生像曹永和故居的事，我個人是非常心痛，因為少了前面的調查研究工作，所以送到文資會的時候，當然它的歷史意涵沒有被呈現出來。好，那就希望接下來要跨部會來協助學校。","接下來我要請臺大醫院的吳明賢院長，副校長也請留步。院長，我要關心的是在我的選區臺大醫院有北護分院，就在內江街跟康定路口。首先我要非常感謝，因為在疫情的時候，我整個區域內能夠收治確診同時又需要洗腎患者的，就只有北護分院，我非常感謝你們救了我們很多民眾一命，他們家人至今都感謝你們。我知道北護分院現在要進行增建計畫，就是第二醫療大樓，主題是希望可以把老年醫療跟長期照護合一成為一條龍，養護結合，是不是這個樣子？"],["吳院長明賢：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：院長，我現在要關心的是，你們的計畫核定了沒有？因為我每天經過，民眾都在問啊！你們就在我們社區旁邊。現在北護要先送計畫給臺大醫院，臺大醫院要送計畫給臺灣大學，臺灣大學要送計畫給教育部。如果說未來需要國發會公建的補助的話，還要再送給國發會。你們現在到底進度到哪裡了？"],["吳院長明賢：謝謝委員關心這個事情，因為臺灣早就已經是超高齡社會，超過20%是65歲以上的人口。在北護，因為我們注意到萬華區其實超過25%，所以我們很早就要建構一個老人醫學跟長照一條龍的整合型。特別是為什麼在北護需要蓋第二大樓？因為我們發現北護的護理之家就等候了6個月，所以我們這個計畫已經送到行政院。整個計畫還沒有完全回來，不過其實我們希望國發會可以……以前可以補足30%，因為據說我現在拿到的是只補23%。這整個計畫是17.7億元，醫院本身會出，總院會贊助9.9億元，北護分院本身會籌資2.49億元，所以希望政府可以給我們補助30%。"],["吳委員沛憶：這個計畫的總經費是17.7億元？"],["吳院長明賢：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：院長你們分院可以自籌到幾成？"],["吳院長明賢：我們自己籌七成。"],["吳委員沛憶：你們籌七成啊？計畫已經從臺灣大學送到教育部了？"],["吳院長明賢：對，已經送過去了。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，那請部長回答。部長，臺大醫院北護分院對我們社區、對我們臺北市整體的老年醫院來講非常重要、關鍵。據我所知，過去這個公文光跑就跑了快半年了，所以我要拜託你們，這個案子我們來大力支持，可不可以？"],["廖司長高賢：報告委員，這個部分我們會協助臺大北護分院來做一些詳細的規劃，因為他們在中間的過程當中確實有經費的一些調整，以及因應物調的部分有做一些修正，這個部分我們後續會來協助跟支持。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，感謝。謝謝主席，各位請回。"],["主席：部長、校長請回，謝謝吳沛憶委員的質詢。","再來請黃健豪委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":422,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-8","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","萬美玲","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","張雅琳","吳沛憶","黃健豪","吳思瑤","林德福","王育敏","陳昭姿","涂權吉","楊瓊瓔","吳春城","羅智強","林月琴","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葉元之","陳俊宇","翁曉玲","柯志恩","邱志偉","何欣純"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案；二、審查114年度教育部主管\n47 所國立大學校院校務基金、國立臺灣大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基\n金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、教育部所屬機構作業基金、國立高級中等學校校務基\n金、學產基金、運動發展基金、私立高級中等以上學校退場基金；三、審查114年度行政法人國\n家運動訓練中心預算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家運動科學中心預算案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}