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通少為什麼要發行發行給大家收藏嗎?給人家選擇啊"},{"start":664.333,"end":676.088,"text":"選擇 因為大家都不用阿那也不是說不用 那只是流透 發行來讓大家典藏 發行來在央行內部流透 央行都有20人我是問你政策啦 我對硬幣廠 你還要繼續發行嗎"},{"start":680.433,"end":680.453,"text":"謝謝陳一貞、張偉"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1257,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（11時59分）謝謝主席，請楊總裁。"],["主席：是，請總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：陳委員早。"],["陳委員玉珍：總裁辛苦了。川普上任後，大概媒體推估有6項經濟政策改變，剛剛很多人都問了，包括美國將對全部進口商品徵收關稅10%到20%，對中國大陸的進口商品徵收60%關稅；減稅永久化；推動石油天然氣開採，剛剛說的對綠能產業的影響；然後21%的企業稅降到15%；遣返非法移民；美元貶值誘導，還有他當然會對他們的金融政策有很強大的干預，這個大概就是可能的政策改變。"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有錯。"],["陳委員玉珍：那我們看一下，他如果採用弱勢美元的做法……因為他覺得美元升值會減少他們的競爭力，提高關稅，然後出口的時候，他們出口要降低，要讓他們美元貶值，讓他們價格有競爭力，用貨物貶值來促進出口。請問他如果採取這個弱勢美元政策，對我們的匯市還有外匯存底的影響為何？"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，事實上川普都一直認為，他要採行的是弱勢美元的這個政策，但是你看看，從他9月底到現在，包括上任之後，美元沒有弱勢，美元反而是強起來。"],["陳委員玉珍：你的預期啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，因為就是說……"],["陳委員玉珍：因為他如果用高關稅，那其他各國也會採取弱勢貨幣，各國的貨幣競相比較貶值。"],["楊總裁金龍：對，對啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：我說會變成這樣子，大家競貶。"],["楊總裁金龍：對，所以美國川普的弱勢美元到目前為止，是沒有實現的。"],["陳委員玉珍：不過他也還沒有上任。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：各國的貨幣競貶的情況下，這個對於我們國家……就是我們的經濟成長現在不錯嘛！出口也暢旺，外匯存底也增加，從111年五千多，112年5,700，到今年9月已經快5,800了，那也一直成長，到時候他如果採弱勢……你說他不一定會採弱勢嗎？你的意思是他不一定會採弱勢？"],["楊總裁金龍：因為說實在的，有些時候美元是由市場來決定的，不是由總統來決定的。"],["陳委員玉珍：那政策影響很大，當然國家的貨幣政策影響也很大。"],["楊總裁金龍：你看看比如說，從他開始9月底一直到現在，美元就一直漲……"],["陳委員玉珍：我是想說會不會影響到，比如說包括我們出口的一些影響，貨幣政策影響到出口，那央行當然有時候要兼顧出口跟相關的外匯，但是還有一點很重要，在這個情況下，我們的貨幣也就比較往趨貶的方向，如果美國也要貶，我們大家要跟他維持一個平衡，我們為了出口也要貶。那這樣子還有一個問題是，利率呢？我們的利率，因為美國也有利率，雙率，匯率跟利率。"],["楊總裁金龍：我們的利率，第一個，我們的利率還是由我們本身通膨的情況，未來通膨的情況是怎麼樣，來決定我們的匯率。"],["陳委員玉珍：那你現在採取的，好像感覺都是比較低利率……"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有喔！"],["陳委員玉珍：匯率跟那個利率都相對比較低。"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，如果你就說我們相對的，我們的報告這邊……"],["陳委員玉珍：不會嗎？我們的利率才多少？"],["楊總裁金龍：不會，你看看我們……"],["陳委員玉珍：貸款才3%，美元的存款才1%多，美元的4%、5%……"],["楊總裁金龍：我們匯率的升貶幅度，你看看……"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有，我是比較國際，不是比較自己。"],["楊總裁金龍：比較國際，我們沒有啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：我的意思是說，因為我看到一本書，就是陳南光的新書「再談致富的特權」裡頭，陳沖前院長說央行在乎的成績，就以那個外匯成績很好，出口很暢旺，但是會攸關致命的房價。裡面的論點就是說，雙率雙低策略當然幫助出口，但影響廠商升級，貨幣供給增加，資金成本又屬低廉就會推升房屋價格，你怎麼看這件事情？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想這是他的說法，但是我要……"],["陳委員玉珍：你不認同他的說法就對了？"],["楊總裁金龍：不認同，當然不認同……"],["陳委員玉珍：你不認同陳沖的說法？"],["楊總裁金龍：而且沒有基礎……"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有基礎？"],["楊總裁金龍：他的分析沒有基礎……"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有基礎？我國的利率這麼低，事實上幫助那個……"],["楊總裁金龍：所以……"],["陳委員玉珍：請問總裁，你不認同他的看法，那我請教你，你的9月19號第七波信用管制措施以後，你有看到房價有降嗎？市場有降價嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：報告委員，問題是說那個時候房價一直在上漲對不對，所以我們的道德說服跟第七波的時候，最重要的是要扭轉他的預期心理……"],["陳委員玉珍：就是房價會一直上漲的這種迷思。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：問題是有達到效果嗎？房價有下跌嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：現在已經扭轉，它已經停止在那邊了。"],["陳委員玉珍：有扭轉嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：它已經停止在那邊了。"],["陳委員玉珍：停止，但是有下跌嗎？如果你的策略……"],["楊總裁金龍：我總覺得不是說你的政策下去，房價就馬上下來，那不可能的……"],["陳委員玉珍：那你預計什麼時候會有一個結果？大概讓百姓覺得說，哇！房價總算比較接近到好像的確有點下跌，百姓比較有點負擔得起。"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告……"],["陳委員玉珍：這個怎麼回事？講到房價就開始有噪音了。等一下，我……"],["主席：機電組請看一下，好不好？請暫停時間。"],["陳委員玉珍：這是什麼問題呢？房價是關鍵字嗎？那怎麼辦呢？因為收音的時候可能會把這些雜音收下來就不清楚了。","好了，所以楊總裁，我知道你的意思，你當然希望是一種軟著陸的方式，不要說一下子往下，但是這個政策如果沒有成效的話，我們業界或是普遍在產業界來看的話，他會覺得也許取得資金的成本太低廉，也是造成這個房價推升的因素，這也是我們前院長陳沖所說的。"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告……"],["陳委員玉珍：9月19號，現在還沒兩個月，沒關係……"],["楊總裁金龍：選擇性信用管制下去了以後，你看看整個的一個，就是說是要……"],["陳委員玉珍：總裁沒關係，因為9月19號到現在還沒兩個月，我們應該是比如說一季的時間，9月19號到大概比如說三個月，12月18號就三個月，就一季了，我們看一下這個成效，如果成效不好的話，我想你的策略可能是不是還有一些什麼相關的……"],["楊總裁金龍：我想我跟委員報告……"],["陳委員玉珍：比如說第八波啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：不，第一個我們有道德說服，請他們一年之內要做一個調整，不要把資源太集中在房地產，這是第一個。那這個呢，他就必須要調整，這個是第一個。第二個呢，我們做這樣的第七波下去的時候，確實能夠讓第一個他的那個道德說服，他的執行能夠落實。"],["陳委員玉珍：我想到12月一季的時候，你要大概有個報告出來看是什麼結果。主席，為什麼時間倒數從一分鐘開始算？應該是兩分鐘。"],["主席：還沒有啊！你的時間還有。"],["陳委員玉珍：OK！好，再請問……"],["楊總裁金龍：第一……"],["陳委員玉珍：沒關係你再講一下，我說9月19日開始，那現在你是希望說，現在已經先暫停了大家覺得房價會上漲的迷思了嘛！你覺得有達到這個效果。"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：但是問題是房價有沒有下跌？我們就是說這個匯率跟利率……"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，現在如果以網路來看的話，他們的分析我不曉得是不是對啦！第一個，他們認為現在已經停止在那邊，但是它的價格的調整，他說恐怕要到明年中……"],["陳委員玉珍：明年中價格的調整……"],["楊總裁金龍：就是說明年中才有辦法慢慢的調整下來，我們也希望是這樣子的，這個是我們的希望啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：好，我想請問另外一個問題，我想請教在場的各位，除了中央印製廠以外，有誰看過20元的硬幣？我不是請教你，我剛有拿到，這個有看過的請舉手。一位，那就是中央印製廠嗎？還是財政部門是嗎？哪個部會的？央行的，所以20元硬幣只在央行內部流通嗎？除了央行以外，還有誰看過？除了央行以外，大部分的人都沒看過20元的硬幣。主席有看過嗎？沒看過，我也沒看過。我想說這個應該是真的吧，這個貨幣是真的嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：那當然是真的。"],["陳委員玉珍：因為民眾很少看到，現在市面上有6,183萬枚，六千多萬枚的20元硬幣，幾乎很少人有看到，這是不是只在央行內部流通的硬幣？只有你們看過。現在詐騙很多，現在如果店家收到這個，不會覺得這是詐騙嗎？可能是假錢，會不會是？"],["楊總裁金龍：不會啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：我們很少人看過，所以我的意思是說……"],["楊總裁金龍：不會，針對這個20元的硬幣，我是不是請我們發行局的局長來跟你報告？"],["陳委員玉珍：我是要請問您政策啦！這個當然很漂亮，做得很好，印得很漂亮啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。"],["陳委員玉珍：我的意思是說，你們要推動這個硬幣再流通計畫嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，全世界2字頭的貨幣，流通都不是很好。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，那我們為什麼要繼續發行？現在又走上電子支付時代……"],["楊總裁金龍：你看日本也是一樣的，倫敦也是，美元也是一樣……"],["陳委員玉珍：都已經知道其他各國都發行的流通認證不好了……"],["楊總裁金龍：但是不能因為它的流通少就不發行……"],["陳委員玉珍：那為什麼要發行？流通少為什麼要發行？發行給大家收藏嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：要給人家選擇啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：選擇？因為大家都不用啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：那也不是說……"],["陳委員玉珍：發行來讓大家典藏，發行來讓央行內部流通，我是問你政策啦！我對硬幣廠沒有……"],["楊總裁金龍：我覺得我們……"],["陳委員玉珍：你還要繼續發行嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：繼續。"],["陳委員玉珍：繼續發行？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，繼續。"],["陳委員玉珍：那你要做更多的宣導，不然大家以為是假的，很漂亮但以為是假的。"],["楊總裁金龍：要promotion，對、對、對，promotion、promotion。"],["陳委員玉珍：這跟電子支付時代有點背道而馳，謝謝！"],["楊總裁金龍：好，謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝陳玉珍召委，接著請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":256,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","李坤城","王鴻薇","羅明才","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳玉珍","黃國昌","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","葉元之","王世堅","何欣純","邱志偉"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍、財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「美\n國新任總統的貿易政策對台灣經濟與金融穩定之可能影響與對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案：行政院歲入預算有關中央銀行股息紅利繳庫部分\n（僅詢答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於中央銀行\n（含中央造幣廠、中央印製廠）（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00003"}}},"supported_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