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施克和副主委以及高先貴副主委接下來還有這個"},{"start":1791.96,"end":1796.235,"text":"那麼我們現在就請共主委進行報告"},{"start":1803.827,"end":1804.788,"text":"全世界經濟成長率"},{"start":1825.16,"end":1847.838,"text":"全世界會比去年稍微低一點點但是對台灣來講的話反而是比較正向的那投資的部分跟民間消費的這個動能還是會持續那比較明顯的這個復甦態勢就是出口的部分那主要的原因是因為我們的這個存貨去化已經告一段落那另外還有人工智慧新興科技的產業蓬勃了一些需求跟發展"},{"start":1850.341,"end":1862.633,"text":"但是在這個情況之下還是有全世界有一些經濟商務風險我們可能要必須去關注的包括地緣政治衝突持續然後還有主要國家的這個貨幣政策可能不太確定等等相關因素"},{"start":1864.445,"end":1888.902,"text":"好,那物價的部分大家還是非常關注那前幾天這個主席總書已經修正了這個今年的這個物價預測大概來到了1.85那所以我們還是會持續的關注整個物價的一些動向那這個穩定物價小組持續會開會這是從副院長來做主持的那我們看看對象提出因應對策請看到下一頁"},{"start":1890.162,"end":1899.6,"text":"進取方式的部分所有的這個措施已經法規都已經大致完備那我們就持續觀察他的一些市場上的一些動向因應處"},{"start":1903.078,"end":1919.197,"text":"在這樣的背景之下我們大概施政的方向還是有四個主軸第一個是創新的經濟持續的來做一些發展第一個是永續跟區域均衡的這個經濟治理第三個大概就是人才的強化第四個是開放政府的精進"},{"start":1920.658,"end":1921.199,"text":"創新經濟創新經濟創新經濟創新經濟創新經濟創新經濟創新經濟創新經濟創新經濟創新經濟"},{"start":1942.195,"end":1957.547,"text":"會盡力的落實這個六大核心戰略產業的發展請看到下一頁另外一個是亞洲矽谷的部分那亞洲矽谷的部分前一陣子我們在行政委員會通過了亞系3.0的新進方案那主要就是在重點在於深層次AI的"},{"start":1958.147,"end":1958.347,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":1972.985,"end":1990.216,"text":"請看到下一頁至於對於產業的創新資金的一些活水國家融資保證機制目前來講我們已經累積的保證的金額來到了85億左右融資的金額是100多億保證的金額是85億左右後續潛在的案子融資的金額可能還要100多億請看到下一頁"},{"start":2001.122,"end":2027.773,"text":"有關於近鄰行動戰略的部分我們的目標還是希望在2030年的部分可以讓它減少大概24%左右十二項的關鍵性戰略實際的在推動當中目前來講這項工作我們大概每兩個禮拜就會有一個跨部會的一些討論是由我跟張子敬政委兩個來做督導請看到下一頁"},{"start":2028.773,"end":2049.04,"text":"深化國際交流跟聯結的部分．這個主要是配合外交部跟經濟部．比如說21世紀貿易倡議．國發會負責的是聯合法制作業等等的一些情況．包括了臺英的貿易提升也好．或者是下一頁的歐洲鏈結也好．或APEC的參與"},{"start":2050.2,"end":2073.356,"text":"那第二大項主要是在落實區域的永續均衡發展的部分那去年整個公共建設的這個執行的金額是有達到了大概6500多億也就是執行率達到了96%那今年這個執行規模可能會來到了大概7800億而我們希望還是它的執行率可以達到95%以上"},{"start":2077.948,"end":2096.206,"text":"有關於前瞻基礎建設現在正在執行的是第4期我們已經開始籌編明年的第5期大概3月份就開始不僅是前瞻預設的籌編一般公件也開始要掀起作業的籌編才來得及巴院把預算送到立法院"},{"start":2098.909,"end":2109.483,"text":"有關於地方創生的部分經過這幾年的努力實際上在地或返鄉的青年反應非常熱烈所以我們也通過在行政委員會通過了3.0擴大他的實施方案"},{"start":2116.187,"end":2134.662,"text":"華東和離島的部分持續進行當中所以今年華東基金大概有26億離島基金大概將近9億的預算來支持地方的發展中益經濟的發展方向已經確定了國防會現在在針對於北核心跟中核心的相關的公有資產的活化持續的進行當中"},{"start":2139.164,"end":2155.812,"text":"人才的吸引還是我們最重要的重點除了專業人才之外還有留學生還有中階技術人力也是我們發展的重點在去年底我們成立了Talent Taiwan希望提供一站式的服務"},{"start":2158.272,"end":2181.277,"text":"開放政府的部分現在第一期的開放政府大概在今年就會屆期那第一期的部分我們也有委託這個國際的獨立研究機構來評比我們這開放政府的成果那得到非常好的一些成績那我們現在開始徵求第二期的這些可能開放政府相關的一些推動方案"},{"start":2183.39,"end":2209.81,"text":"請看到下一頁有關於法規鬆綁的部分持續跟這些外國商會來溝通我們的經營法治環境美國商會的部分三場的這些溝通協調會已經完成後續還有歐商、日商跟紐澳商來做一些平台請看到下一頁開放政府的檔案的部分我們還是方向上還是最大的開放、最小的管制"},{"start":2210.61,"end":2211.371,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":2240.796,"end":2268.432,"text":"好謝謝我們拱竹委的報告現在要進行詢答那委員質詢前呢依照慣例我們做主席台做幾項的宣告每位委員發言時間本委員會6分鐘必要的時候加2分鐘那非本委員會呢4分鐘必要的時候延長1分鐘我們上午10點半截止登記那首先登記發言的"},{"start":2280.139,"end":2286.401,"text":"首先第一位換了齁我們陳廷輝委員跟邱毅委員對調我們請資訊信息"},{"start":2304.994,"end":2315.246,"text":"第一位的邱毅宜委員請做詢討邱委員也是早"},{"start":2326.66,"end":2339.927,"text":"主委早 主委還是要請教一下 這個國發會兼顧了整個國家經濟發展的一個非常重要的責任 那最近大概國發會應該也會"},{"start":2342.59,"end":2365.117,"text":"強烈的去注意到台股的加權指數現在已經是創下了歷史上的新高點看到這第一張圖從2016年15年開始一路到現在2024年在小英政府的這個主導之下主責之下我們現在股市來到19386點這應該是史上新高了台積電的這個數額也是史上新高那根據"},{"start":2371.462,"end":2383.848,"text":"主計總署的這個經濟成長率的預報、預估現在我們又往上調整了0.08個百分點對不對你們現在主計總署的預估2024的經濟成長率會到3.43"},{"start":2389.042,"end":2404.148,"text":"您覺得這一個經濟成長率的預估符合現在實際的標準嗎?是,我跟委員報告就是說我剛才報告的時候現在看起來就是說比較調高的部分就是出口的部分"},{"start":2404.668,"end":2426.303,"text":"出口現在很明顯有兩個重點一個是過去我們一直在調整存貨那存貨大概調整慢慢到一個段落了那另外一個就是有關於AI或相關的這些新的科技它的需求有爆發性的一些成長那那個剛好是台灣很重要的這個出口的產品所以您認為這樣的主技術的經濟成長率調高到3.43這個會是樂觀還是比較保守的這樣的一個估計你覺得會不會再往上修正"},{"start":2434.428,"end":2437.873,"text":"我們要繼續觀察到底是不是還有可能是變化情況"},{"start":2452.948,"end":2472.537,"text":"你們的這個燈號指數啊最近也同時發表了這個燈號指數嘛你們的這個計算的標準跟指標其實有做了一些微調所以呢睽違17個月之後1月份的景氣燈號指數是亮了綠燈喔那有的人認為說是不是因為你的這個指標改變"},{"start":2473.778,"end":2486.448,"text":"所以要符合你的所謂的指標改變然後做了一個這樣子的綠燈的調整這個我覺得國發會可能需要來說明一下我讓你有幾分鐘的時間說明我們如果用舊的指標答案一樣也是一樣的是綠燈"},{"start":2493.733,"end":2521.502,"text":"所以不是因為指標的改變不是因為指標改變的關係是因為不管你用舊的或者是新的標準去計算一樣是27分一樣是會達到綠燈沒有錯那主要的原因是因為那個舊的指標它我們經過反覆的測試以後它有點鈍化了沒有辦法去反映這個所以這個其實我們在去年也跟您請教過嘛已經有對所以這不是技術性不是技術性的對那您覺得這樣的一個景氣指標"},{"start":2523.126,"end":2549.884,"text":"未來的前景它會持續往上呢?或者是說至少這個綠燈的信號可以維持多久?它不會是因為比如說我們1月2月可能遇到農曆的春節啦等等這一些採買所以你的整個景氣燈號是亮綠燈您覺得舊國發會的專業評估未來上半年的台灣的景氣指數能夠持續這樣的維持或者是會一路往上走嗎?"},{"start":2550.384,"end":2569.206,"text":"議員會議員會議"},{"start":2569.466,"end":2590.819,"text":"所以它是一個比較穩定性的因為你說如果比較這個前瞻的這個指標它可能會變來變去訂單可能變但是你一旦你生產銷售全面性的翻轉的話那它不會是因為過年春節的這個關係還是說其實還是要在long term一點的去觀察比如說到3月、4月"},{"start":2592.34,"end":2614.02,"text":"我們會更加有信心還是說其實就你們現在的這樣的一個長期的觀察下來你覺得這樣的一個景氣指數是會往上走的台灣的景氣或者是說全球的景氣其實都是會往上走持續觀察我們一定要做的但是因為現在3月了那2月份有一些資料已經陸續出來的我們有做一個頻寬"},{"start":2614.801,"end":2615.902,"text":"主委我接下來要請教的我覺得這個電腦好像還是怪怪的好這個"},{"start":2634.915,"end":2653.236,"text":"今年是農年,我們的少子化的問題其實這個也是非常嚴重的國安議題根據內政部的統計雖然我們去年的人口已經不再復成長了但是我們的新生兒的人數再創新低"},{"start":2654.94,"end":2683.397,"text":"我到目前為止其實還沒有很完整的看出國發會對於少子化的這個問題我們相關的政策是什麼我們過去這幾個月或者是過去的這一兩年我們大概都討論的是整個經濟的成長出口或者是缺工或者是白領移入的問題那對於少子化這件事情國發會有什麼相關的政策那你們推動的成效是什麼"},{"start":2685.166,"end":2712.973,"text":"發言委員因為國發會主要關注的是整體的人口：對：它的變化：是那人口的變化當然就是有少子化的部分甚至有老年化結構的部分：對：還有是嬰兒的部分我其實下一題要問你老年化結構的部分對還有就是人口嬰兒的部分我看起來你好像對少子化這一題沒有研究那我如果問你老年化：人口老年化的這個部分因為少子化的部分在行政院有一個推動的一個機制是林政委在督導"},{"start":2713.733,"end":2730.538,"text":"我們當然有參與我們也可以提供我們的政策建議所以為什麼當時少數化在2016年的時候那時候提供的這個預算只有一百多億現在已經超過一千億了那大概就是在這樣的一個機制之下不斷的增加這個部分來進行"},{"start":2732.244,"end":2760.138,"text":"好了,少子化這一題我看起來你研究的幅度不是太大啦應該都是林政委在研究不過其實這是一個牽扯性的比如說我們現在的少子化孩子生得少青少年的人口數其實也一直在減少反而中老年的人口是在大幅增加所以如果你們對於中老年的關切度是比較高的話來"},{"start":2762.372,"end":2776.456,"text":"中高齡勞工的就業 主任您看一下我們現在統計了一下大概幾個比如說南韓、日本、美國對於中高齡的就業南韓65歲以上的就業人口是37.3%"},{"start":2778.337,"end":2781.261,"text":"對於中高齡的勞動人口的參與率其實是相對偏低而且是非常低的"},{"start":2795.319,"end":2824.092,"text":"國發會有沒有在這一方面去做任何的研究如何協助我們的中高齡的勞工或者是讓他們能夠持續的投入職場或者是輔導他們再就業然後我們在整個勞動市場來講也好或者是產業的公司的這個經營的層級上面來講如何讓他們更友善的去對待我們的所謂的中高齡勞工有沒有做這一方面的政策研究"},{"start":2824.352,"end":2842.749,"text":"是,報告委員我們這個是分成兩個部分來做一些幫忙一個您剛才提到的勞工職場的部分怎麼樣更友善這個中高齡他們可以進到就業那現在比較好的部分就是說因為以前體力工來講對他們可能是負擔但是現在都用自動化來取代了所以比較需要是腦力的部分"},{"start":2843.85,"end":2848.754,"text":"對,不要勞力密集的當然中華林大會被排斥在外嘛但是現在我們就盡量的這個自動化跟智慧化那這樣他們參與的機會就很大而且運用他們的這個智慧那這個是一個部分那另外一個部分就是家庭的因素那我們怎麼樣透過一些長照機構讓"},{"start":2865.268,"end":2873.912,"text":"國際的這些老年人要照顧更老的人的時候讓他們可以不要那麼有責任這麼重大然後他們就可以出來工作等等的一些情況"},{"start":2875.351,"end":2901.964,"text":"我覺得這個議題其實是非常重要尤其如何輔導中高齡的勞工不管他是在就業或者是持續就業在整個就業市場上面如何去分散解決臺灣的勞動力不足的這樣的一個問題現在我們的這個平均餘命年齡已經到八十幾歲了其實65歲是非常年輕的你看你們內閣裡面的這些部會首長少於65歲以下的我看"},{"start":2903.805,"end":2931.984,"text":"對,阿現在60幾歲他要照顧80幾歲所以他我們怎麼樣來協助他這個部分也讓他可以有機會可以如果能夠協助他們借重他們過去的知識或者是智慧、經驗能夠重新再投入這個職場上面給職場上有更多的協助也能夠解決我們部分的這些所謂的勞動力不足或者是職能不足的這樣的一個問題嘛好,這個如果有一些比較詳細的資料是不是能夠請主委也可以給問一下好不好,謝謝"},{"start":2933.786,"end":2934.266,"text":"陳婷菲委員"},{"start":2955.606,"end":2980.484,"text":"委員長早安主委我想我們固定我們都要針對整個打炸的進度來做一個追蹤那其實我們在國發會的部分我們在各自的這樣的一個所謂控管還有整個控制它的一個外洩的部分我們當然現在是要成立各自保護委員會"},{"start":2981.785,"end":3000.635,"text":"現在籌備當中,因為已經掛牌了目前也是由您來擔任這樣的一個主要的角色對不對對,我跟羅政委所以在這個部分到底我們現在進度如何各自委員會的進度如何"},{"start":3003.015,"end":3003.055,"text":"議員發言人"},{"start":3019.505,"end":3043.388,"text":"一年8月12日,憲法法庭的憲判制第13號判決意旨行政院是必須在114年8月12日以前成立各自保護委員會對,就是最晚明年,明年要推動那怎麼來得及所以組織法我們會盡快的不是在這個會期就下一個會期一定要提出來"},{"start":3044.469,"end":3049.681,"text":"這個會期那現在有眉目了嗎這個會期你勢必什麼時候要送到行政院院會"},{"start":3052.498,"end":3073.206,"text":"現在行政院院會通過以後就會送到立法院沒有啊 那你要先送行政院院會來現在主治法送行政院院會了嗎還沒啊那現在送了嗎還沒嗎還沒有還沒有還沒啊那怎麼這個會期會來得及他們一估是6月份會送出來6月份會送行政院院會對"},{"start":3074.898,"end":3103.115,"text":"那我們再來討論看看時間有沒有辦法再往前一點那這次還是要跟他們做一些溝通你今天從組織法完了之後不是組織法過了就OK欸是那還要配合有一個第二階段的修法對啊你還有修法欸沒有錯那第二階段的修法會在下個會期裡面提出來你都在下個會期組織法也在下個會期修法也在下個會期奈乎啦"},{"start":3104.793,"end":3132.907,"text":"你要有一個專法欸!是不是?你有一個專法欸!其實我們打仗無法說真的在去年法案推出之後響噹噹可是其實裡面有很多是完全沒辦法去做處理的啊!一定要有專法所以我們現在在各自的部分就是要用各自委員會保護委員會去做一個平台去執行嘛!好那我再問"},{"start":3134.108,"end":3155.932,"text":"那各自外洩的管制怎麼處理各自外洩現在我們有一個跨部會的一個平台在做機制嘛行政院下面各個各個目的事業主管主管假如有通報或他們直接他有分平常跟事件發生這個平台有什麼用對就是說這個平台有什麼用各自還是在外洩啊現在看到的"},{"start":3160.086,"end":3185.976,"text":"有一些就是有至少有些處理啊有些處理的方式各自外泄我們明明從我們手中不論是手機簡訊甚至是網路我們都常常聽到民眾在說我的各自被外泄對現在就是但是呢我們各自外泄的查緝案件就一件就一件"},{"start":3188.024,"end":3196.633,"text":"這好像跟我們實際感受的、民眾所感受的相差有一點距離啊。什麼叫重大事件?"},{"start":3212.059,"end":3212.479,"text":"主席"},{"start":3224.676,"end":3253.035,"text":"有一個單位把各自露出去請他露到什麼程度叫做重大事件還是他要影響到國安才叫重大事件你要把這個標準定出來啊是沒有錯我說你這個平台在幹什麼你這個平台從過去到現在民眾感受我常常在講從選舉前到選舉後對就是說這一個握有這些各自的這個這個機構也好或是公司也好他握有多少"},{"start":3253.936,"end":3279.263,"text":"的名單或是什麼﹖對啊﹖那你要把這個遞出來啊﹖對對對﹖他會有名單很大﹖那他各式外界就是輸﹖什麼叫名單大跟小啦﹖沒有﹖他如果他的個資只有﹖比如說來講﹖那所以我漏10個﹖不是漏10個﹖他掌握的如果﹖他如果﹖如果今天我掌握10個﹖我漏了10個這叫小案件﹖不是不是﹖他如果掌握的這些客戶﹖他的客戶名單如果只有10位或100位的話﹖"},{"start":3280.023,"end":3293.511,"text":"跟一萬那就不一樣了那一萬所以一萬是重大案件所以10個就不是重大案件哪有這個樣子的一個論斷呢影響的程度啦什麼叫影響程度如果這10個人露出去這是大戶所影響的層面這算小嗎所以這個都會我們在跨部會平台會做一個討論你們今天跨部會平台成立多久了"},{"start":3306.95,"end":3310.951,"text":"從去年開始是啊從去年到現在我現在問你這個問題你還在跟我說小案件大案件我問你什麼叫大案件你也沒有辦法做一個處理中央目的事業主管機關他的那個業務形態非常的複雜所以認定上來講的話我們是尊重中央目的事業主管機關來認定什麼樣要但是你有一個標準啊"},{"start":3331.798,"end":3352.867,"text":"就是因為樣太多你要把標準定出來那如果各個單位都自己定然後都沒有一個標準那誰在論定什麼叫大案什麼叫小案在平台當中多久要把它處理出來這個現在的個資外洩這個部分目前我們看到跟民眾的感受度是有落差的"},{"start":3353.487,"end":3353.507,"text":"委員"},{"start":3376.894,"end":3380.236,"text":"主委,你今天講的這些基本上在我們打詐的這種決心看不出來"},{"start":3401.161,"end":3424.574,"text":"在我們當時候想當當說我們要去打仗到現在你們的做法跟態度會讓民眾覺得很軟弱所以為什麼我們在選前到選後每一次民眾都給我炸下來喔我在卸票的時候我騎著鐵馬在卸票的時候給我炸下來"},{"start":3426.203,"end":3455.196,"text":"謝謝謝謝"},{"start":3458.991,"end":3473.398,"text":"接下來我們請林黛嬅委員請做巡檔有請主委我們再請主委"},{"start":3480.743,"end":3497.142,"text":"民生問題 高鐵為什麼收不到訊號?偏鄉為什麼收不到訊號?隧道為什麼收不到訊號?以及我們講說要行人地獄 這個行人地獄當中的智慧入口我怎麼樣的落實?"},{"start":3498.183,"end":3504.29,"text":"只有加速5G的基礎建設。好,我們來爬出現在政府的5G相關的政策執行的狀況如何。彭新的提綱,這個包括我們電信5G現況的分析5G建設補助金及前三計畫中的5G經費的補助情形以及人民購買的服務"},{"start":3516.723,"end":3520.666,"text":"期望跟實際的落差又是怎麼樣具體的建議好為什麼人民的通訊權要來國發會來捍衛呢我們的軌道事業是交通部主管電信通訊的評斷是由行政院的NCC來管理5G產業發展是歷史速發部"},{"start":3540.321,"end":3548.843,"text":"這麼簡單的民生問題啊我只好在行政體系下由國發會來扮演跨部會的角色了好我們電信業5G的現況是什麼我們在2020年1月的時候5G的商用頻段4兆那時候呢這個一個大標題國庫進帳了1405億啊這麼多錢我們用在哪裡就是希望能夠用在5G國產的應用"},{"start":3569.926,"end":3581.448,"text":"但是呢我們電信業者仍然是利用現在的假5G也就是現在的DSS系的技術來做這個服務的簡單講什麼叫DSS這個技術它是用4G來讓的頻段的部分頻段運行5G的服務讓消費者體驗5G所以呢也就是現在每一個人手機的右上角"},{"start":3595.191,"end":3604.283,"text":"都打5G不好意思那全部都是假5G震撼吧各位消費者說全台灣人民隨便假5G那為什麼我人民去到買手機的時候我如果要由4G到買到5G我要多付月租費耶"},{"start":3613.575,"end":3615.277,"text":"所以國貨編了一千多億結果呢有沒有落實沒有還是假5G我人民要買這個這個5G的系統我多付了業主會有享受到嗎沒有好那這個呢我們來看我們5G建設怎麼花錢在前瞻第4期喔這都已經執行完畢囉針對5G的"},{"start":3634.574,"end":3662.604,"text":"基礎公共建設編列了85億其中5G的網路建設計畫68億包含等等等5G的資安也得1億多分配在哪裡?速發部國科會好另外行政院的NCC呢他也花了155億完成了鼓勵國內的電信業者加速5G的基礎建設包含鼓勵國產化的5G基站的設備"},{"start":3663.624,"end":3669.707,"text":"有沒有落實?完全沒有國廠化的5G設備現在所用的通訊系統不管是Nokia的或者是Allison的全部都還是原廠的好那民眾購買的服務期望跟實際有落差我們就是在這個假5G的情況之下就所謂DSS機制的這個環境之下民眾並沒有獲到5G的真正服務還是用4G的頻段設備"},{"start":3693.096,"end":3710.621,"text":"效能沒有達到5G的效益也就是說5G完成商品試照4年了從2020的1月到今年的20243月整整4年我國的電信行動服務並沒有真正完成基礎建設的提升更不要講國產5G設備的投入好"},{"start":3713.542,"end":3719.627,"text":"那本辦公室非常的認真我們委託實測我就在北市的捷運作為模擬的試驗場我用這樣的5GN78的就是我們商用視頻的這個頻道進行隧道跟站體的建置好果然在電信服務的效能呈現了倍速成長隧道不再斷訊收訊的品質提升你看下面這兩張圖是我們實測出來的"},{"start":3739.921,"end":3751.701,"text":"在隧道當中黃黃色的那個吧他其實就是現況在隧道當中黃色然後藍色的是我們實測的果然是倍數包括在站體也是如此"},{"start":3753.527,"end":3780.596,"text":"那本席就具體要求了根本製造在第一個要求電信業者中華電信、臺歌大、遠傳提升核心網路Nokia跟Allison由現在的假5G提升到真5G我國產的網路通訊業者才能加國產的基地台借接到電信網路市場簡單的說就算我國產的業者投入了這樣的基地台的設備"},{"start":3781.696,"end":3805.661,"text":"他現在就是沒有辦法借接到我們的中華電信台歌大遠傳因為他們還是用Nokia Edison的4G而不是用Nokia Edison的5G他們不願意投入成本所以導致我們花了好多錢政府有沒有在做?有我現在詹處長很清楚他一直在點頭他很清楚問題的重點可是為什麼這三家"},{"start":3806.841,"end":3812.045,"text":"就是要你來出面啊我跟交通部講他就會說真的是這樣子交通部說我們現在那個產業應用已經移到抒發部了抒發部說這個是NCC的NCC說這是我們過去的政策所以現在移到抒發部了兩個不會是這樣我是實質用書面的所知喔這樣兩個不會回答我"},{"start":3831.039,"end":3846.543,"text":"所以為什麼要國發會出來好第二個我也要求電信業者針對台鐵、高鐵、捷運等及地下交通設備及軌道提升通訊方法非常簡單只要在目前的甲5G現在的4G系統下簡單拉個光線就能夠解決那電信業者"},{"start":3852.344,"end":3877.801,"text":"就是不做他就是要節省成本犧牲人民的通訊權所以我要拜託國發會來協調相關部會提出具體的方案及具體的施策這個馬上就可以做現在的私區系統拉光線就可以了第5、第三個檢討5G基礎設備的補助經費執行的成效及業者那這個以利你未來5G或6G的政策規劃及預算編列"},{"start":3880.022,"end":3898.595,"text":"這個我這個也要讓你來跟本席跟大家講到底你們在未來5G當中還要投入嗎還是就提升成6G的如果你再敢給我編沒有檢討5G的情況之下包括你的電信業者沒有提升你的第一個核心網路沒有4G提升到5G你再再編6G那根本就詐騙就詐騙台政府"},{"start":3902.077,"end":3902.358,"text":"主委 您回應一下"},{"start":3913.408,"end":3914.709,"text":"主委來來來 這一點我們兩個搞清楚喔你講的是專網"},{"start":3940.76,"end":3946.861,"text":"我講的是通訊、公網這是兩件不一樣我講的是公網嗎公網也要提升到5G喔所以我剛才提到了公網的部分我同意怎麼樣來精進但是我們編很多的預算是在怎麼樣提升小基站或是物聯網讓它智慧工廠、智慧交通等等的一些情況是比較local型的那個部分那那個部分的確很多部分已經國產化了"},{"start":3970.367,"end":3978.954,"text":"是有的那我跟委員補充說明但是我同意公網那個部分怎麼樣來提升它的效果我們來做督促對這是全台灣人民的通訊權我的高鐵這樣走過他們就會省錢啊為什麼不要提升因為我閃過去兩三秒所以呢哎呀就是才兩三秒收不到訊號沒關係啦就算不願意投資啊中華電信啊或者這些台哥大啊或遠傳啊他們就這種苟且的心態啊所以您這邊要你的實質上要怎麼要求呢"},{"start":3999.309,"end":3999.749,"text":"接下來我們請張祺凱委員請做詢答"},{"start":4042.697,"end":4068.275,"text":"謝謝主席、謝謝趙委請拱志偉我們再請拱志偉趙委員早安拱志偉早安是那今天我們要來講小朋友的安全是是是是小朋友在這個中興新村啊你們的這個遊樂園裡面撞破了頭、頭破血流、瘋了五針"},{"start":4069.79,"end":4079.161,"text":"到底這個案子已經一個多月了嘛一月十四到現在要兩個月啊你們有沒有負責?賠償了嗎?我常常問他說到現在還沒公共意外責任選到現在還沒賠喔?"},{"start":4088.526,"end":4113.834,"text":"跟委員報告一下吧因為他2月20幾號才把相關的醫療不是一月十四一月十四發生你一月十五就去關心嗎對我們都有跟家長溝通那家姓家長我們每個禮拜去了解他的狀況然後他在2月底才把相關的單據送給我們那我們現在已經我已經批了盡快好不好盡快這個速度要加快我們每天都會追喔"},{"start":4115.434,"end":4140.866,"text":"接下來我們看一下除了小朋友這個賠償的問題這個要加快之外安全問題更重要要給家長跟小朋友一個安心安全的遊樂的地方這個地方不能再出狀況昨天我還請專家特別到現場又去勘查了一次你們說一個月內一個月內本來要完成這個檢驗對不對那為什麼昨天去看 來來 主委你先看一下"},{"start":4142.261,"end":4143.062,"text":"好,跟委員報告一下齁那因為這邊的"},{"start":4170.964,"end":4198.49,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":4198.95,"end":4221.302,"text":"已經是有問題了,對不對?那發生問題,對不對?然後你們說一個月要把它檢查完以後要做好,對不對?結果我昨天在找人,我今天要質詢嘛,所以我早上叫人去實地去勘察至少發現兩個地方還有問題,第一我早上說的秋千,早上也是我孩子在那裡玩啊,尤其拜到禮拜人都很多喔,這個地方是小朋友常去的地方,你看右邊這個,欸上一張"},{"start":4224.224,"end":4239.031,"text":"為什麼不安全?這個是很清楚,你鞦韆一定是要轉的嘛對不對?你坐那個坐墊是要軟的對不對?而且按照規定一定是要有弧度的。我們現場很多爸爸媽媽坐阿公阿嬤的,你帶小朋友去公園玩,你會讓他坐右邊這個嗎?"},{"start":4243.379,"end":4250.181,"text":"因為我們現在決定重新把它整理但是這個重新整理、整修或是重新規劃因為它這個是屬於全區的文化景觀我們要送縣政府的文資委員會他們同意以後我們才可以動"},{"start":4272.407,"end":4282.216,"text":"那我們會儘快 要快一點啦 你不要再發生事情了 好不好 所以不要再發生 讓家長跟小朋友有一個安全的遊樂一個地方 絕對不要再出狀況了 看第二個圖來 這個也是現在沒有封起來的 這個是在搖搖馬 大家可以看到 這個圖你看就是在搖搖馬 左邊他是這樣搖馬對不對 你看 他下面這個彈簧 像彈簧這個地方 有沒有危險"},{"start":4299.122,"end":4299.503,"text":"有危險嗎?"},{"start":4299.503,"end":4322.695,"text":"主委你看有危險嗎?所以我們會盡快的齁 先先先把它封起來啦 後面對對對那另外給我一個東西 你說你有找合法的廠商去做了檢測嘛對不對找哪一家 找哪一家 他檢測報告是什麼 你等一下送來我辦公室好不好 好來那我們看下一個"},{"start":4325.384,"end":4347.63,"text":"好啦 這個今天就不問你了 反正你花了很多心思 我知道你要讓中華新村要重現光芒嘛我剛剛今天看你的這個報告裡面有很多 一定要做到注意我找時間借你來中興新村走一走今天很多人可能都從中興新村來的啦那邊以前是我們的政治中心 包括我們的主席 以前是新居民都在因為我們很美好的回憶啦 所以一方面讓它光滑再現"},{"start":4349.471,"end":4376.812,"text":"讓南投人、讓中興新村的人光滑在線有那個驕傲感。第二個小朋友玩的地方馬上要改好不好?第二個我們看一下這個也很重要我看你今天報告的第4頁你的第4頁啊你說電價要調控要有三顏者對不對?主委我電給你聽啦你不用找了啦你說照顧民生對不對?穩定物價節約能源現在電價要去啊你怎麼照顧民生?怎麼穩定物價?"},{"start":4378.973,"end":4397.601,"text":"是原則,但是實際的做法可能要經濟部跟省議委員會他們做最後的決定經濟部打臉你嗎?經濟部打臉國發會嗎?不會啦,他們還是會用這個三原則來規劃你看這個對照表有沒有一點諷刺,你看一下右邊是4月份經濟部準備這樣做的"},{"start":4402.289,"end":4422.539,"text":"民生用電1000度以上要調10% 300度以下的要調5%你怎麼照顧民生怎麼穩定物價?欸你是很有名的經濟學者欸 主委 主委 今天這樣調下去 調下去 物價會上漲嗎?主委 你是很有名的經濟學者喔 你又下次國發會主委 這樣調會不會物價會不會再上漲?"},{"start":4424.895,"end":4444.339,"text":"我同意啦就是說電價上漲當然會對物價會有影響這也是因為也因為這樣子所以過去一兩年我們為什麼一定要平衡電價前面20年漲都是300度以下民生都沒有漲啊為什麼這要漲現在那個物價飆漲那麼高"},{"start":4451.056,"end":4465.733,"text":"主計總署不是剛公布嗎?我們股尼就是因為物價上漲太高啊我們實質的總薪資倒退11年來最高啊這怎麼會是一個漲電價的好的時間啊?特別是民生用電為什麼300度以下也可以漲呢?"},{"start":4468.522,"end":4482.376,"text":"你可不可以去跟他們說一下嗎?國發委主委、國民心能不能去跟經濟部長或者是行政院長我做一個建議我知道蔡總統常常爭取你意見嘛你跟蔡總統講民生用電不能漲,可以嗎?"},{"start":4484.08,"end":4505.355,"text":"因為明天那個召委就有排那個一個專案報告是不是讓經濟部先說明以後你說我明天才問他 明天才問他問題是你是負責國家、省體發展的人啊又是那麼有名的學者啊而且他打臉了你沒有看到嗎你這個照顧民生有穩定物價嗎我明天才拿這個東西問王美花 她要現水配是不是"},{"start":4508.8,"end":4536.893,"text":"這個還是要看他的方案沒有啦,你站在國家的發展啊站在穩定物價跟照顧民生啊我甚至這樣問好了啊你會不會是經濟部長董明新以後打臉你現在的國會主委董明新你到時候我拿這個你當經濟部長我拿這個去問你你如果守不住民生用電不要漲你是不是打臉自己去啦,去跟總統講一下啦好不好"},{"start":4537.961,"end":4543.592,"text":"謝謝 謝謝謝謝"},{"start":4552.444,"end":4581.021,"text":"主委我還是要提醒因為委員在詢答的時候還是要針對委員的提問因為今天我們的書面資料都是由國發會所提出所以你應該是要以你所提出的政策方向去做詢答而不是請明天召委排了什麼議程請經濟部去看什麼方案這樣子本席沒有辦法接受要尊重我們每一位委員的詢答"},{"start":4581.783,"end":4584.265,"text":"謝謝主席我想要請我們國發會的拱竹偉我們再請拱竹偉"},{"start":4612.838,"end":4635.649,"text":"主席總署預估我們今年的GDP成長可以到達3.43可是外界普遍有認為說好像保三都有問題那在什麼樣的情況下你認為台灣今天的經濟可以到達3.43那什麼樣的情況不行"},{"start":4636.673,"end":4662.112,"text":"報告委員您看看他的預測的日期主委總書是最近最接近因為主委總書是看到了比較新的一些數據出來是因為PMI的指數就是說有稍微擴張嗎不單單只是這樣事實上我們比如說我們的景氣燈號就很明顯的看到包括投資、生產、消費"},{"start":4662.893,"end":4665.375,"text":"台灣重要的這個出口基地所以就是說有這樣的一個修正"},{"start":4691.471,"end":4713.94,"text":"所以我覺得他修正還算合理那歐洲是不是也有相關的這樣子的情況就是他們的需求增加歐元區歐元區當然是經濟成長現在是相對去年是有稍稍下修但是就是說使用AI的部分這個部分還是在全世界還是比較需求還是比較大的"},{"start":4715.821,"end":4740.42,"text":"但是我也看到了即便是我們說有可能我們可以達到3.43的那個經濟成長但是對於物價指數而言大家還是認為有可能會超過2%因為如果就是4月宣布漲價、電價漲價的時候那物價指數會不會跟著就是也是往上漲呢?"},{"start":4741.806,"end":4766.755,"text":"現在主席總書他的確是有稍微調升物價的部分調到1.85那當然電價的部分我是沒有辦法預測我是說他只有調到1.85那你覺得會不會因為有可能在各種情況下因為畢竟如果電價上漲工業電價上漲有可能轉嫁到各種的品項"},{"start":4767.515,"end":4768.677,"text":"的確是免不了的這也就是為什麼過去我們對於"},{"start":4781.156,"end":4782.838,"text":"好,那我想請問,就是"},{"start":4798.553,"end":4807.238,"text":"台積電在日本風光的開幕目前我看到了日本的經濟成長指數是從1點"},{"start":4813.242,"end":4834.435,"text":"9.4%下修到0.66%那他下修的這是今年度那所以是不是因為他非常的就是說重視我們的台積電那到日本去擴廠希望台積電可以帶動他的經濟的成長那我們國內呢你認為我們國內對於台積電整體的產業的發展"},{"start":4841.513,"end":4865.731,"text":"有沒有辦法就是說我們有辦法給他什麼樣子的就是優惠或者是給予我們整個就是晶片的這樣子上中下游整體的產業的策略呢是報告委員所以我們現在為什麼就是說尤其是AI將來的需求是比較需求比較大"},{"start":4867.432,"end":4886.823,"text":"那AI上面的晶片需求是比較高階的這個製程可能是2奈米以下的或是3奈米那這個部分的確是對台灣的需求非常大所以台積電也為什麼那麼積極的可能要擴充他的產能不僅在高雄可能在中科等等的一些情況"},{"start":4888.344,"end":4914.838,"text":"在嘉義也有可能會有封測廠等等的一些相關的布局那這是因應未來這個晶片上的一些需求那日本的部分擴廠主要是日本原來他也有晶片上的需求包括SONY的部分DENZO主要是在汽車用那評估起來可能高階的這些生產上的需求可能還不足以國內的需求還不足以滿足全世界的需求所以為什麼要蓋第二個廠"},{"start":4916.476,"end":4917.777,"text":"他們期待台積電變成日本的黑船2.0"},{"start":4942.596,"end":4969.011,"text":"來拯救他們失落的30年可是如果我們看到台積電一直的就是說往外移那會不會導致整個我們臺灣就是引以為傲的戲盾那或者是說我們賴以為就是說的戲盾會你知道嗎一直採取外移報告委員他不是外移啊他是同步擴廠同步擴廠對他在國內擴廠的幅度更大"},{"start":4969.795,"end":4987.811,"text":"所以比日本還大?對那精密的都留在台灣嗎?你說?我說比較高製程的都留在台灣嗎?是是是沒有錯沒有錯那所以對於台積都大概都會先都會先留在台灣嗎?對對對沒有錯因為日本的二廠是6到7奈米"},{"start":4988.851,"end":5014.064,"text":"可是我們必須要了解現在我們看到美國的就是說總統的未來總統的選情也有可能會有變化那如果川普當選呢他們一直希望我們的台積電可以就是說我們科技業可以到美國去設廠那如果有這樣子的情況產生的時候"},{"start":5016.145,"end":5030.662,"text":"我們要怎麼樣因應?因為台積電已經宣布到美國會蓋第二個廠而且總共投入400億美金我是說如果因應現在是拜登政府嘛那未來如果不是拜登政府的時候是川普政府的時候呢?"},{"start":5031.363,"end":5058.54,"text":"照理說那個廠應該就是在美國的廠會陸續會陸續的蓋好所以這個在進行當中對會不會會不會他會不會我是說有沒有可能如果美國要求我們持續的就是要求不是我們要求台積電持續的在美國擴廠就看現在的這個目前的這個建廠的進度跟他的這個產能狀況還是你覺得到時候520了就不管你的事你應該不是這種人"},{"start":5060.953,"end":5082.433,"text":"你應該不是這種人吧?你覺得應該是會為台灣的就是說高科技業以及相關的產業以及會因應我們所有的經濟發展的情況吧?是不是?是,報告委員就是半導體業現在在台灣事實上算是在國際間扮演關鍵性的力量這個關鍵性的角色在未來10年仍然會是"},{"start":5085.816,"end":5103.014,"text":"問題是我們怎麼樣讓這個關鍵的10年能夠擴展到更多的產業對沒有錯這個就是在應用端的部分所以為什麼我們現在一再的透過亞洲矽谷的部分推動這個物聯網AIoT的發展或智慧城市的發展"},{"start":5103.274,"end":5103.755,"text":"那相關你認為會對我們的經濟有多大的益助?"},{"start":5125.906,"end":5138.757,"text":"因為它變成一個百發齊放大家同時會受惠不是只有半島體也受惠而已包括我剛才提到的我們現在單單我們這個競技城市今年的這個3月底就會我們辦國際的這個競技這個"},{"start":5143.361,"end":5159.168,"text":"智慧程式展跟淨零程式展會來100多個城市全部都到我們來我們這個大概是全世界應該是跟巴塞隆納可以對比的那我們很好的是我們有實際上的這些智慧應用也好淨零的solution出來了"},{"start":5159.588,"end":5174.138,"text":"以及有實質的東西所以包括東南亞還有其他的國家他們都非常喜歡把我們這些成果跟他們合作引介到他們國家去那這個也是很大很大的傷心事實上也是我們在亞系3.0很重要的這個推動的重點"},{"start":5174.938,"end":5174.958,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":5205.512,"end":5206.353,"text":"接下來我們請鄭天才委員請做詢問。"},{"start":5246.969,"end":5251.076,"text":"主席、各位委員、請主委。好,我們再請孔主委。主委好。"},{"start":5261.769,"end":5269.876,"text":"本席在今年的2月5號新聞給國發會針對嚴明會113年1月10號航報這個花東地區原住民族部落集會所興建行動計畫這個國發會在2月7號就很快的回航了"},{"start":5284.264,"end":5299.066,"text":"就特別提到這個克澤韓請各有關機關嚴提意見中請問一下目前的進度怎麼樣原則上我們會支持啦但是行政上我請是不是那個處長說明一下目前好請說明"},{"start":5301.17,"end":5326.325,"text":"跟委員做個報告那這個計劃其實大概花東基金跟與居部落的經費會大概會各付一半那現在各部會意見大致都回來了我們會盡快含附行政院大概我們原則會支持各部會的意見有沒有需要嚴明會去做修正應該是不用修正速度會很快那個所以這個"},{"start":5327.305,"end":5354.975,"text":"金費來源,剛有提到一個是演命會的移籍部落計劃嗎?對,一個是我們發動基金好,這個比例怎麼樣?大概50-50啦,我們少一點點因為以公務機關為主嘛,那基金為輔嘛,但是所以說會差一點點,差不多啦那就是說,好,是不是這個?"},{"start":5357.617,"end":5360.223,"text":"發動第7永續發展基金補助計劃運作機制"},{"start":5364.264,"end":5365.325,"text":"好我們看齁這個是"},{"start":5396.303,"end":5412.336,"text":"這個講話花東第7永續發展基金補助計畫的運作機制是在108年7月12日國發會奉行政院合可之後所訂出來的"},{"start":5413.773,"end":5431.743,"text":"這裡面除了縣政府提報的機制原來就有了那現在就特別增加了鄉鎮施工所提報的機制還有各部會以及民間委員提報的機制建立了這樣的一個機制"},{"start":5435.893,"end":5460.559,"text":"要請這個國發會因為從108年7月12號航班之後也已經現在已經113年度了那本席也想瞭解實際上的執行的一個情形是不是請這個我們國發會提供提供這個從108年起鄉鎮事工所"},{"start":5464.676,"end":5488.386,"text":"以及部會或民間委員提報的計劃名稱以及合定的情形,可以嗎?可以這個部分就請這個國安會來提供好,我們接下來談這個原住民族博物館原住民族已經等待了超過8年這個8年是從這個博物館法開始講"},{"start":5493.291,"end":5516.546,"text":"那事實上如果從本席來看不止啦已經十幾年了這個本席在101年還是文件會的時代一直到文化部就開始質詢本來本席也有其他的一個構想那後來這個經過多次的質詢協調之後你看這個質詢的那個次數之多"},{"start":5522.907,"end":5547.075,"text":"非常多一直到105年2月17日這個時間點很重要105年2月17日行政院核定選址在新北市的因格期但是很遺憾非常非常的遺憾的就是105年520520"},{"start":5552.402,"end":5579.198,"text":"將近8年前這個閒子嚴明會變更閒子的作業要重新閒子不同的政府就不同意在新北市的因割期好,重新閒子一直到109年9月21日重新閒子又花了一年多的時間"},{"start":5580.424,"end":5606.553,"text":"重新閒置：最後嚴明會重新閒置在高雄市的澄清府109年9月21日到現在這麼多年所以國家及原住民族博物館的新建歷程非常的艱辛這個如果我們看這個博物館法"},{"start":5608.075,"end":5631.336,"text":"也特別明定這個國家級政府要興建這個博物館法第6條作業目的事業主管機關應設置原住民族博物館在這樣的一個過程當中從選址又重新選址到現在這樣的一個過程"},{"start":5633.154,"end":5656.778,"text":"我也質詢過很多次在這段時間我們就講上一屆而已我從109開始質詢國發會還有主席總署、研明會還有這個文化部我還請文化部協助協助研明會到底問題出在哪裡中華民國政府"},{"start":5658.604,"end":5686.419,"text":"新建國家級的博物館太多太多了很多案例可以參考我就不相信我就不相信嚴密會我自己在嚴密會服務了很多年了我在省政府服務了20年總共30年的公務人員我也在省政府看過當初臺灣省政府在精神之前"},{"start":5687.659,"end":5711.821,"text":"要興建台南那邊的一個舍前博物館的分館很快的就完成了這個主委到底問題出在哪裡?你審查過很多次啊不過這個案子我們已經韓副行政院那原則同意了已經往前走了啦已經進行了對開始可以進行什麼叫原則同意?"},{"start":5712.905,"end":5730.085,"text":"對,就是他報來的這個方向,我們大概已經同意了,因為這個同意以後他還要做細部規劃等等一些情況還在細部規劃他的規劃大致上已經完成了,我們已經含附他了,對,在2月28號的時候"},{"start":5734.243,"end":5757.368,"text":"我們就以第二次限制106年到現在也5年了所以這個部分實在是不止5年了所以這個到底問題出在那裏你們可不可以詳細的寫出意見提供給本席去怎麼樣去協助人民會或是去協調相關的部會"},{"start":5763.225,"end":5775.096,"text":"後面很快就可以設計開始施工了他們要成立那個籌備處也都沒有呢?也都不同意?都還沒有?"},{"start":5777.329,"end":5779.13,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":5804.56,"end":5805.401,"text":"主席,我想請拱主委再請拱主委"},{"start":5833.662,"end":5833.802,"text":"國發會主委"},{"start":5854.282,"end":5865.153,"text":"大家都覺得說您是國內經濟產業的專家一把手那您怎麼看台積電在熊本設廠這件事對台灣的影響"},{"start":5867.695,"end":5890.772,"text":"我自己認為大概有兩層的意涵第一個就是說對台積電而言那原來像Sony跟Denso甚至以後來的Toyota它原來是它的客戶那現在變成它的合作夥伴所以原來從客戶變成合作夥伴就它的這個ecosystem就是生態系就把它build up起來了"},{"start":5891.932,"end":5896.955,"text":"對台灣而言,因為全世界將來類似這樣的晶片需求不管是中階或高階,需求量一定非常大你會擔心說這會降低台灣的影響力嗎?跟重要性嗎?"},{"start":5915.226,"end":5937.754,"text":"因為這個基本上他的決策還是在TSMC,TSMC就是台積電他還是握有比較大的…您不是也是董事嗎?是,我是董事您是我們國家的法人代表嗎?對,對,我發信心的法人代表所以你也應該是有一個一席之地可以好好的表示說要把先進製程留在台灣不是嗎?您同意嗎?一定,一定,是"},{"start":5938.814,"end":5942.395,"text":"所以本席在這裡也想跟主委確定說主委也是贊成台積電在中科落腳的"},{"start":5969.008,"end":5969.328,"text":"據本席瞭解﹖"},{"start":5990.007,"end":6009.294,"text":"公主委在這個熊本開幕的時候您也去了那這個熊本可以說是這個熊本廠這麼快的快速可以建成其實也是蠻使人欽佩的但我覺得當中也體現出一點就是說政府的支持對於產業推動的速度"},{"start":6011.855,"end":6039.358,"text":"是有幫助的就日本政府全力的來協助他克服所有的困難所以本席在這裡也要求就是說國科會也好要全力的來支持台積電在我們臺灣繼續擴展這樣子的計畫您同意嗎?同意同意齁?全力支持嗎?全力支持全力支持你也覺得說只要你們全力支持應該我們的進度也不會落後太多吧?是"},{"start":6039.918,"end":6047.321,"text":"只要我們中央政府跟地方政府然後還有廠商共同合作的話這個速度效率就會提升起來那我在這裡也藉這個機會我想我不曉得說這個龔主委了不了解我們現在虎尾基地的一些優勢我有一個小小的這個我們虎尾跟熊本的這樣子的一個比較主委你也仔細參考一下目前我們虎尾"},{"start":6067.688,"end":6093.086,"text":"土地方面一千兩百多公頃的公有土地是台塘土地所以從虎尾連貫到土庫、寶中、東勢整個串聯起來其實它有一千兩百多公頃的土地甚至高達一千六百公頃如果排除掉包括其他的產業園區可以加入的話那台積電在熊本來比"},{"start":6093.646,"end":6093.746,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6116.431,"end":6144.48,"text":"對,就國會會的角度來講我們是樂觀其成但是這個中間有幾個部分可能要做一些處理比如說因為它是採訪的地原來是農地那牽涉到可能土地變更跟環評的問題還有當地居民的溝通等等的一些情況那這個可能這個當地是沒有居民的對這個是完全是農場所以完全可以排除掉這個承擴的部分就是租地的那些"},{"start":6145.2,"end":6154.107,"text":"當然當然目前目前就本席所知台堂是支持的畢竟這是國家重大的一個建設的政策那"},{"start":6155.563,"end":6181.7,"text":"人才的部分我們目前雲林縣有雲科大跟虎科大那熊本現在熊本場目前熊本縣一年會派60個學生到我們雲科大跟虎科大來學習所以這代表著說其實我們的人才是應該比熊本更加的厚實更加的多否則不應該是他們派學生來我們這裡學習"},{"start":6184.318,"end":6204.806,"text":"所以人才方面我們也是有優勢你同意嗎是因為這個製程本來就是在臺灣發展得非常好因為日本自從製造比較弱以後他相關的人才是有點流失的沒有錯是當然那包括說先進製程那個主委也同意說未來是要留在臺灣是嗎是那請問一下國科會對於這個有什麼具體的具體的規劃嗎因為現在"},{"start":6214.669,"end":6233.481,"text":"因為臺灣的土地也是很珍貴,我們不可能再去做比較成熟製程的,那個成熟製程因應於國際上的需求也許是在海外設廠,那國內當然是要用在最先進的製程,這個才比較make sense所以我再一次確認說您覺得臺積電在雲林湖尾中科二級擴廠您是全力支持的"},{"start":6239.657,"end":6261.795,"text":"我是樂觀其神的,但是就這樣有一些先決條件可能要先處理好是,就是針對短中長期的部分這樣子來推動您是支持的好,太感謝你了那因為我知道說您的副主委也是過去在我們雲林縣擔任過副縣長所以他應該也很了解我們雲林縣的優勢他也支持,謝謝"},{"start":6264.717,"end":6281.915,"text":"接下來我也想問一下就是說關於因為現在台灣高齡化、嫂子化是一個非常嚴重的問題那雲林縣的老化指數現在已經是全國第三名進入了超高齡的社會那目前衛福部是規劃說我們在那邊的床數"},{"start":6285.299,"end":6301.8,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":6302.16,"end":6319.889,"text":"長庚是一個蠻完善的醫療系統所以本席在這裡建議公主委考慮在雲林縣規劃一個大型的長照基地不只可以照顧雲林縣的鄉親之外我想可以照顧全台灣其他的鄉親"},{"start":6323.01,"end":6323.391,"text":"接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答"},{"start":6356.581,"end":6379.428,"text":"謝謝主席請拱主委我們再請拱主委立委員早安主委你在國發會已經將近要4年的時間了那我們國發會的組織工作最重要的就是規劃我們國家整體的這個發展的一個策略尤其是要監督各部會的整個計畫實施的這個期程"},{"start":6381.769,"end":6382.35,"text":"沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":6406.351,"end":6406.811,"text":"現在我們就來檢視一下我們國發會"},{"start":6430.37,"end":6448.816,"text":"在你1月份的時候,你特別有公布了這個我們景氣的燈號。連續的16個月,終於在藍轉為綠燈。但是在財政部在2月7號裡面也公布了我們1月份的出口統計。我們1月份的出口統計的話,金額是371.9億美元。跟去年相較比較起來,我們是成長了18%。但是這"},{"start":6459.62,"end":6482.188,"text":"我們那個出口總值我們看到了這個整個出口一月份的出口金額是136.7億的美元可是出口的整個動態我們幾乎看到我們國內好像整個是在復甦當中但是在一月份的時候我們整個主計總署也有公布了2023年的經濟成長率只有1.4%寶二都沒有到"},{"start":6487.95,"end":6492.173,"text":"保二都沒有到：而且主席總書也公布說這經濟回春可望我們今年能夠達到3% 這個是不是太過於樂觀了?主席總書前幾天又修正了他的一些數據 因為他看到 修正3.43 所以這就是本席要講的說"},{"start":6513.948,"end":6541.098,"text":"你當時的寶二都不到了只有1.4現在你說寶三更高要3.4所以我們會不會太過於樂觀了你整個來評估尤其是國際的整個情勢而定報告委員就是說現在從1月2日看到的一些狀況來講的話主要原因就是因為去年很多的產業基本上它有存貨早期來講有歐巴布克的狀況那一直在去化當中"},{"start":6541.678,"end":6541.698,"text":"〔記者訪問〕"},{"start":6557.362,"end":6569.809,"text":"這個NVIDIA它會到臺灣來一直希望尋求這個產能上的一些基礎跟協助所以我還在請諸位多注意啦因為畢竟這個是14年來的新低啦所以你要整個聯合整個國際的整個變動要因應著這個策略才能夠讓我們臺灣整個經濟的狀況能夠實質的好轉好不好"},{"start":6579.054,"end":6583.397,"text":"接下來要跟主委討論的就是大矽谷計畫這個大矽谷計畫在我們的準總統賴清德在選舉期間就提出這個計畫說預計要投入200億的這個預算那現在在2月22號行政院也已經核定他說未來預估這個4年會創造6兆的這個產值"},{"start":6602.794,"end":6628.735,"text":"創造14萬的工作機會不管是在就業的機會還是提高我們的薪資培養人才等等是都會來帶動那我們在整個來看看我們大溪谷這個計畫那我們政府也必須要在這個水電的供應跟我們交通醫療跟近年的轉型跟員工的居住還有子女的交易等等來做一個完整的配套"},{"start":6629.295,"end":6650.841,"text":"這是在整個完整的配套裡面我們心裡想這個必須就是不管是我們各部會還有地方政府就一起要來努力做的對不對?是所以我們先從這個交通方面來看那在這一次我們在桃園來講的話我們桃園的話板龍快速道路跟新梅龍快速道路已經有納入這個計畫了是不是?有"},{"start":6652.722,"end":6667.739,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":6667.739,"end":6696.008,"text":"所以我要跟主委提醒的就是說桃園整個完善整個交通路網的話還有三條是北桃的部分在這個北桃的部分就有我們的城中快速道路跟我們的環城西快速道路跟國一甲的東延加上桃北的快速道路這三條可不可以並入一起來討論呢?都有在大氣鼓的方案裡面所以這三條北桃這三條快道路會並入?"},{"start":6698.943,"end":6723.985,"text":"為什麼要這樣子問主委呢?因為我在這次總諮詢裡面特別問交通部的王部長這三條要不要併入他說我們地方市政府送計畫來的話就來討論他公然說謊王部長公然說謊去年10月的時候我們地方政府就已經提出這個計畫這三條道路的計畫我們中央就已經回解說請地方政府自己去負責"},{"start":6725.196,"end":6740.213,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":6740.213,"end":6743.475,"text":"接下來我們就要討論的就是我們的住宅醫療部分在醫療部分的話 主委您在這個醫療部分的話說未來會有23間醫院提供出1萬張的病床是不是?"},{"start":6766.957,"end":6793.356,"text":"桃竹苗有390萬人口你要提供的這個病床數的話也要有13000床對不對所以本席在這邊提醒主委的是臺北有9家的醫學中心就有1萬個病床那你現在桃竹苗有390萬人這個病床數會不會過低啊比例原則"},{"start":6795.419,"end":6800.147,"text":"是不是?是,因為這個都一直在討論,因為醫學中...所以要再檢討?所以你要調整啊?是不是?"},{"start":6803.203,"end":6804.524,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":6834.065,"end":6841.371,"text":"這個4萬多的這個社會住宅是從中央加地方嗎?還是只有中央直接清建?因為你加了直接兩個字"},{"start":6843.089,"end":6861.242,"text":"只有算中央的地方不算嗎?中央加地方所以你們中央會補助嗎?不然是土地還是新建的工程?未來我們可能會規範如果這個土地用徵收的方式的話會保留大概5%來建造這個社宅的部分那就土地有空出來的話那就盡量趕快來施作這樣子你認為會達到嗎?這4萬?"},{"start":6865.525,"end":6886.162,"text":"因為設宅最麻煩的就是說土地難找那如果說有區段開發以後那如果真的有土地的話﹖所以本席再次提醒你因為現在來講的話你說這8年要完成42,250戶嘛那現在的話地方加上中央喔只完成了已經完工的話只有4000"},{"start":6888.904,"end":6891.807,"text":"505戶新建跟絕標要開工的規劃的當中才有11122戶所以你這個8年要完成這4萬多戶你做得到嗎?"},{"start":6900.347,"end":6928.729,"text":"內政部當然有做過一些估算不過他是希望說這4萬多戶至少在8年裡面開始動工陸續完成這樣子是 所以本席的提醒就是你在交通也好在社宅在整個產業醫療的量能裡面你一定要跟橫向溝通各部會地方來做一個預期的施工或者是效率的規劃都要把它做出來才能帶動產業的預期的效果達到你的目標好不好"},{"start":6929.369,"end":6937.155,"text":"最後要問的就是電價雖然說明天我們稍微有排電價那請問一下現在說預估電費會長10%那本席請教諸位那物價會長多少%"},{"start":6944.782,"end":6967.079,"text":"因為電價最後的決策我沒有參與,所以我...你是審議委員會小組裡面的成員欸我不是我不是你不是,可是國發會是行政院物價穩定小組的成員你是負責研究分析國內物價的這個情勢的欸怎麼會不是呢但是我不是啦"},{"start":6967.939,"end":6977.486,"text":"可是你組織裡面是嘛 對不對所以你們要負責啊所以你們評估好請問評估怎麼可以不跟你討論你是主委欸所以現在要漲10%了嘛那好你們研究分析要漲價你們還沒有去評估去檢討去做個討論嗎好討論的結果呢物價會漲多少"},{"start":6993.798,"end":7015.529,"text":"因為過去的經驗來估算來講的話如果長10%的話那直接會反映物價賽大概是0.1%多0.1%多你這麼樂觀只會長0.1%多這個成本的反彈的效果是很大的那是直接啦那後續當然會有延伸性的一些波動性的效果"},{"start":7017.17,"end":7032.086,"text":"主委,請您要重視,現在人民苦了那麼久了,現在你們要苦民所苦啊,這物價如果去穩定,讓人民好生活好不好?"},{"start":7032.99,"end":7044.235,"text":"你們一定要覺得,你們不要感覺說零點幾而已啊我們百分之五都有可能嘛直接的部分是百分之零點一二嘛阿如果加上延伸性效果是零點以下"},{"start":7048.097,"end":7048.797,"text":"接下來我們請鄭政權委員請做詢談"},{"start":7081.735,"end":7084.34,"text":"主席,我想請到公主委我們再請公主委"},{"start":7091.408,"end":7117.423,"text":"主任好在你去接經濟部之前的時候你在國發會主委的時候我一定要好好去問一些跟國發會涵蓋面有關的一些問題首先第一個我想問一下跟人口政策有關因為台灣的整個高齡化情況非常嚴重從1993年變成高齡化社會之後走了25年變成一個高齡社會可是預計再走7年到明年我們就會變成超高齡社會"},{"start":7119.004,"end":7134.977,"text":"這個情況就是整個高齡化的嚴重程度比日本走得還要快那我在想說這個裡面其實牽涉到的問題很多我先簡單問一個部分在整個國防會在做的一個"},{"start":7136.938,"end":7153.266,"text":"提高少子化的一個策略當中的時候有很多種不同的步驟可是問題是我發現的在整個國發會的一個推估值就是在2023年推估值"},{"start":7155.387,"end":7174.659,"text":"我們推估值有高中低嘛我們2023年的人口出生數已經比我們的低推估值還要低了就表示我們低推估值是14萬人可是我們低於14萬變成13萬5千人所以在這個狀態之下的時候我們的推估模式是不是有問題"},{"start":7177.782,"end":7204.179,"text":"整體的部分因為他還要除了整個人口推估除了這個出生的部分來講的話那還有一些是移民的部分還有死亡的部分那因為現在死亡的部分來講就是說因為我們有推估值我們有高中低的推估值連低推估值都沒有涵蓋在裡面所以表示我們的推估模式可能是有問題的我們兩年會檢討一次"},{"start":7206.981,"end":7231.307,"text":"那我在想說針對這個部分我就很具體提到一個狀態就是有關於那個居家保姆的問題因為你要怎麼樣子讓年輕人感生願意生有很多很多的面向那對於整個保姆問題這邊我就直接提出一個主張就是說針對我們現在居家保姆我們一年的那個保姆獎助金是一萬兩千元對不對"},{"start":7232.662,"end":7237.63,"text":"有沒有可能就平均一個月才一千元有沒有可能提高到一個月兩千元"},{"start":7240.797,"end":7268.45,"text":"這個部分應該是衛福部嘛我們可以跟衛福部來做一些討論當然這個方向怎麼樣提升保姆的人力這個我們也是覺得方向是好的方向好那國主委那這個部分就請跟衛福部這邊好好去做溝通一下因為我覺得居家保姆的保姆獎助金其實真的偏低啦我們再看一個數字這50歲以上的保姆超過6成阿他跟我們老齡化的情況不相上下接下來"},{"start":7269.15,"end":7289.184,"text":"要願意做居家保姆的人越來越少所以我們必須要有更好的鼓勵機制那麼同時本席這邊也主張希望就是國發會除了說跟衛福部溝通居家保姆的每個月的獎助金提高之外的時候還能夠按照各縣市居家托育服務收費基準"},{"start":7290.324,"end":7313.415,"text":"來比照我們司法院民事執行他們所依據的每月必須生活費用去調整而不是固定每個月都一千全國到位臺北市也許應該要高一點因為整個生活必須高新竹市也許應該要高一點因為他的生活那個物價只追臺北市好不好我們針對這部分是不是能夠去做一個比照而不是"},{"start":7314.415,"end":7339.454,"text":"對於人工生殖的部分目前大家在推可能單身女性跟同性女同志的家庭共主家庭的時候是能夠去做人工生殖你知不支持?"},{"start":7340.419,"end":7361.254,"text":"我支持支持齁對你覺得這應該也是一個能夠去解決我們少子化問題的解決方式之一嘛對不對是OK齁好那我接下來再問一個齁就是之前在COVID-19的時候那我們國發會這邊有成立一個紓困資料上傳與比對平台對不對齁"},{"start":7364.614,"end":7384.838,"text":"去年8月的時候省基部出了一個資料就是針對我們這個輸控比對的平台裡面有65,871件產生了一些失誤那我們去追了現在還有19,687件還沒有追繳回來這個部分我們後續要怎麼樣處理"},{"start":7391.314,"end":7404.504,"text":"應該還是要持續追繳啦因為當初是為了方便人民就是很急的時候我們就盡量寬鬆盡快的趕快把這個需求發出去嘛那如果有重複請領的狀況當然我們還是要追回來"},{"start":7408.286,"end":7426.491,"text":"這個部分因為時間有限我想說因為這個平台我們希望以後不會要用到可是如果再發生的時候我們希望不要發生因為以前發出的更迷民眾了還要把民眾追回來民眾心裡一定圈圈叉叉一大堆一定很不爽然後同時會增加我們另外部會的工作量"},{"start":7427.311,"end":7429.794,"text":"如果前面做得好的時候就不會有後續追稿的問題"},{"start":7446.231,"end":7461.224,"text":"這個部分我們希望完善之後不要再發生這樣的事情徒增大家的困擾接下來就是針對桃竹苗大細股的一個計畫這個計畫我相信所有桃竹苗的民意代表都非常非常關切那裡面有幾個關鍵的數字"},{"start":7463.986,"end":7490.265,"text":"4年6兆產值14萬個工作人口然後有7個科學園區52個產業園區會增加42,250戶的社宅我覺得這是整個桃樹苗大細股這個方案當中我覺得幾個重要的數字那我想特別請教一下就是我們7個科學園區跟52個產業園區是不是都已經找好地方了"},{"start":7491.065,"end":7491.586,"text":"有多少在新竹市?"},{"start":7498.577,"end":7527.124,"text":"這個我可能要...我是不是會後再整理給那個委員那會後之後我就請主委這邊的時候再準備相關的資料到本辦公室來做一個說明那因為在這當中的時候還有特別提到了有關於社宅的部分我這邊提出一個數字在新竹市跟竹北這兩個地方就是新竹科學園區跟生醫園區從民國88年到113年這25年的時候大概增加7萬個工作人口"},{"start":7528.084,"end":7545.29,"text":"人口數大概增加25萬人所以我們預計這14萬人工作人口他到時候會怎麼分配是不是有一個具體的一個那個配置的一個計畫大致上同樣的也都會有一併我們大概的估算也會送給委員"},{"start":7546.17,"end":7567.191,"text":"稍後再給本辦公室一個很詳細的資料因為我看到在我們這大矽谷資料當中的裡面有一個特別提到了一個X計畫的部分算是一個都會型的一個園區配套那之後還會不會有繼續在新竹市有類似X計畫的一個推動"},{"start":7570.132,"end":7594.246,"text":"會 原來的這個周邊的地方會先開始好 那我們就之後希望因為在那個整個X計畫附近還有很多的特定農業區我們要如何去解決相關的問題我們到時候請那個主委再一併來那我最後再問一個狀態在大溪谷這計畫當中的時候它對於桃園新竹捷運道路規劃"},{"start":7595.247,"end":7595.327,"text":"新竹市"},{"start":7615.307,"end":7618.648,"text":"大溪谷計畫當中會不會把這兩條線再做更多的一個延伸?"},{"start":7636.704,"end":7637.144,"text":"接下來請楊瓊英委員"},{"start":7665.197,"end":7687.873,"text":"主席,本席想邀請主委。親共主委。主委,你什麼時候要去當經濟部長?我沒有接到這樣的訊息。那你笑咪咪啊,是不是真的確定了?沒有沒有,真的沒有。因為今天的媒體啊,顯然你是呼聲最高。"},{"start":7689.278,"end":7691.859,"text":"有沒有人告訴你?你有沒有這個人生規劃?請問經濟部長這個職務,你有沒有人生規劃?"},{"start":7707.489,"end":7731.171,"text":"報告委員我覺得現在我們就是因為現在很急的就是明年的這個預算現在要趕快掀起作業要籌備請針對本期的提問再來請問你來當國發會主委的時候有沒有這個人生規劃你說國發會主委嗎對國發會主委當初是你有沒有這個人生規劃當初是希望可以盡一份力國發會主委所以這是有規劃是嗎"},{"start":7733.072,"end":7734.794,"text":"臺中市航太工具機零組件光電面板自行車零組件"},{"start":7759.77,"end":7779.776,"text":"木工機械、手工具等這些產業的聚落非常重要的重鎮臺中市經發局非常努力在統計我們一年臺中展覽大概有60檔次但是我們目前最大的檔次就是烏日高鐵旁邊當然它的設備是臨時的還是不足的而且它的櫃位只有1107位真的是不足"},{"start":7787.498,"end":7791.439,"text":"在這樣的情況之下我們為了要打開整個產業的知名度跟買家這非常重要要協助我們的產業界所以因此我們還要怎麼樣呢因為設備不足我們要北上或者是拎著皮箱或者是要花了很多的成本到國外去參展那這個會影響到我們的產業的一個發展所以我們要有更完整"},{"start":7816.323,"end":7835.657,"text":"獲獲獲獲"},{"start":7835.677,"end":7858.734,"text":"台灣貿易業跟國際舞臺最重要的一個平臺非常的重要所以本期要請教主委在臺中水南國際會展中心西側的展廣案我們一期的部分臺中市政府非常的積極而且進度超前那二期的部分我們在2月5日經濟部"},{"start":7860.555,"end":7888.251,"text":"也已經在2月5日發函給你們所以也就是中央跟地方當然非常的團結在這2級的部分那請問國發會你目前的這個審查進度如何謝委員的提問我們大概3月5日就是今天是3月6日昨天對那3月6日他們因為我昨天大概在立法院我今天如果回去的話我可能就會批已經批出去了已經批出去了"},{"start":7889.714,"end":7914.643,"text":"講正確的信息給我們是已經批出去了批什麼內容呢就是韓府行政院韓府大院嘛對我們同意那就是最後的一里路嘛對要趕快確認你的內容審查的結果是什麼呢我們原則同意啊原則同意什麼呢就是他現在所有的相關規劃他的規劃我看一下你已經批出去你不了解內容你不能這麼糊裡糊塗啊"},{"start":7916.859,"end":7936.332,"text":"這是我們中部地區非常重大而且是全國最重大 內容是什麼對 那它主要就是帶動中部地區發展 這個滿足中部地區的會展需求 那跟台中水南的東側它可以產生一些加成效果西側的計畫內容是什麼 計算多少"},{"start":7938.53,"end":7946.897,"text":"預算是60億左右60.31億畢竟實行的時間呢本來我還認為你來當部長應該是非常nice你連這麼重大的一個重大案件到了立法院的質詢台竟然沒有辦法回答這個太離譜了"},{"start":7966.793,"end":7978.579,"text":"這個是我們全國舉目在看的啊你是國防會主委欸不要搭配所問本席提問的是內容你們竟然審查過我們跟經濟部、台中市政府這麼努力"},{"start":7989.432,"end":7998.595,"text":"一定要經過你然後我們才能夠提到這個行政院最後一里路你內容不知道浪費了我一分鐘的時間要扣除怎麼可以如此太離譜了國發會你要加油這麼重大的一個案子你批出去你內容不知"},{"start":8012.693,"end":8029.859,"text":"我給你拜託 這個務必要達成成功 我們地方非常的重視在哪裡 是你批的 你這個回答沒有辦法有人接受副主委代批出去的 因為我昨天在立法院"},{"start":8031.4,"end":8047.757,"text":"就是我們為了趕時間嘛 這個游副主委有代表你不要管控 你要管控 經過你國發會出去的內容你不知道 你的穆納波給你嗎 這麼重大的案子 我們地方這麼重視"},{"start":8050.326,"end":8055.893,"text":"難道你對於我們這個案子不重視嗎?重視不知道內容因為同事他們大概就會跟你爭執這個也沒有什麼意義重點是我們要盡速完成好嗎?"},{"start":8069.028,"end":8091.501,"text":"因為這個我們都要非常積極的需求而可以幫助我們整個的產業所以本席建議我們主委真的你是管控我經常說你是國家很重要的頭腦跟靈魂指揮者重大的案件才要到你這裡重大案件問了一問三不知這個讓委會憂心啊"},{"start":8096.038,"end":8123.754,"text":"不能再苛責但是一定要鼓勵你要去調整你們的腳步重大工程你不知這個是會扣分的好不好所以拜託你昨天批出去然後就給行政院嘛這個副主委代批出去就給行政院嗎對對對是不是120年完成121年完成你們預估這樣行政院上去還要多久再回復回來"},{"start":8125.817,"end":8138.685,"text":"我們通常因為我們批了大概就是支持嘛通常啦通常會不會有太多的意見對那大概會多久時間會回覆回來因為他他還以往以往以往啊"},{"start":8140.561,"end":8143.663,"text":"也就是我們台中水南國際會展中心西側的展館案"},{"start":8168.357,"end":8175.785,"text":"主委你全力支持我們一起來追行政院競速合併好不好當駐產業對不對好不好接下來本席要請問你們去年這個整體公建的預算是6500億你的這個達成率是96%但是今年"},{"start":8190.459,"end":8197.867,"text":"你是這個7800億可是你的達成率反而是下降你自己制定是95%為什麼呢因為我們要看那個國內的那個未納量公建的這個供應的能量這是一個"},{"start":8207.077,"end":8220.537,"text":"第二,我們今年的重點可能會放在就是那個公件的實質上的內容上比如說他是不是用比較近鄰的公法啦或是等等的一些情況來做一些要求"},{"start":8223.625,"end":8249.438,"text":"但是我們整個政府是要加速進行轉型的願景啊你竟然拿這個理由來告訴我你下降1%的原因那這個你跟行政院在打架啊也不是啦,就是那個務實的去估算拿來努力啦對,因為在這裡都錄音錄影我還是希望你要務實的回答"},{"start":8250.478,"end":8250.498,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":8266.043,"end":8279.094,"text":"長期必須要達成的目標這個是你必須要有分階段的KPI出來他不僅是整個政策的引導也要定期的來檢討達成的情況你才能夠真正的去完成這樣子的一個具體執行"},{"start":8287.381,"end":8294.589,"text":"你不能拿行政院的目標來打壓你自己下降我們會盡力啦你當然要盡力啊 善期會當然要盡力啊最後一個議題就是說你現在這一頁裡頭所說的是以國防會主委"},{"start":8312.184,"end":8317.476,"text":"國內穩定能源價格你是以電價照顧民生對不對"},{"start":8319.618,"end":8344.328,"text":"穩定物價、節約能源這三個原則來進行調控如果到目前為止現階段是不宜調漲這個電價的所以我希望這是您寫出來的不管你在什麼職位還是要以這個原則來照顧民眾穩定物價、照顧民生、節約能源"},{"start":8346.209,"end":8347.13,"text":"接下來我們請陳昭明委員"},{"start":8371.107,"end":8376.989,"text":"我們請陳昌明委員請做詢答首先有請我們的廣州委我們再請廣州委 謝謝那我們到現場還有我們的陸委員 詢答結束之後我們再休息 謝謝"},{"start":8400.932,"end":8401.353,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8414.963,"end":8440.277,"text":"當然國會會的責任非常的重大也跟經濟的發展關係跟我們整個社會都是息息相關但是我第一個問題首先要請教你那今夏海域大陸快點撞牆發生事件到目前都沒有共識而且兩岸的敵意越來越深那你認為如果再這樣繼續下去"},{"start":8442.579,"end":8468.998,"text":"會不會被取消?對臺灣的經濟影響有多大?但是你永遠要記得臺灣跟大陸香港的順差是1500億美金那你又沒有什麼心理的準備還是取消就給你取消反正也已經1月1號開始關稅也提高了一部分好像沒有影響但是我記得10萬億基金都是"},{"start":8470.439,"end":8498.221,"text":"哀苦連天的,阿您有沒有什麼對策?巴委員我想那個驚嚇事件它是一個意外事件都不應該影響到...你有沒有準備啦,那事情就發生像我們院長,天有不測的風雲隨時要改變怎麼樣不過聽你這麼講好像那沒關係跟你沒事加強注意一下院長交代的天有不測風雲什麼變化大家都不曉得"},{"start":8499.397,"end":8525.512,"text":"第二個我看到你跟國界聯繫的關係第一個就是臺美21世紀的創意那我看的內容大概我們是臺灣配合美方再來你最主要的貢獻就是跟英國啦跟歐洲東歐的連結在一起那這裡面當然講的都是功勞我第一個問你ECO其實這個問題要特別注意"},{"start":8526.496,"end":8539.142,"text":"我第二個問題要問你在這樣的狀況CPTPP你們到現在也沒有一點消息也沒有聯絡這是台灣非常要中日進入的一個國際的貿易組織雙邊的一個協議多邊的協議"},{"start":8544.198,"end":8555.251,"text":"可能看起來都沒有進展所以你們不敢在這邊聽你的看法怎麼樣因為這個是非常重要的協議經濟貿易協議我覺得你沒說什麼"},{"start":8559.716,"end":8586.101,"text":"等一下歐洲人要有融資要有投資有幾家那個資料也給我一下那昨天又看了你新聞你又來一項的基金國外會準備40民間準備60這個內容也讓我了解一下你的動向在哪裡讓我看看你抓的準不準還是有某種目的而為而去做的一個關係一定是為了台灣好啦那再請那個委員幫我們指導"},{"start":8588.721,"end":8602.798,"text":"我不敢主導我是多看資料了解一下整個狀況今天很多委員都在談到大矽谷計畫就是逃職職苗科技走廊產業"},{"start":8605.64,"end":8627.204,"text":"指揮,我在經濟委員兩屆跟你的關係應該是不錯吧?還是你對我有歧視?我問的絕對有道理啦!表面是啦!其實你不是對我不怎麼好啦!我跟你講,現在總統發表大西谷計畫在哪個地方發表?"},{"start":8633.071,"end":8643.281,"text":"我沒有記起來你沒有記起來我提醒你在苗栗縣發表我本來預計贏了三萬五千票結果他一發表我變成只贏兩萬票"},{"start":8644.81,"end":8666.307,"text":"因為自然科學研究都都是我在推動完成而且我一直在推動苗栗的產業研究但是我今天看了你的資料讀了一下我也莫名其妙你今天國外為所有提出來了就是講到桃園就是講到薪酬"},{"start":8667.341,"end":8689.339,"text":"其實我們賴總統他最主要大細股的計畫是要在苗栗推展你桃園人口已經那麼多了剛剛我聽到李委員什麼道路要開闢、薪酬要開闢我苗栗裡面你都沒有跟我談到一樣你對我哪一點好不要看資料來不及"},{"start":8690.384,"end":8711.954,"text":"議員："},{"start":8712.214,"end":8733.804,"text":"我每次邀請你去到苗栗你都幫我記解都派副主委去跟我交代一下你不要去苗栗我問你你去苗栗我不知道你也不要說我看你是不去的你都往大都市跑所以你沒有深圳低層你的地方創生就是要鄉鎮平衡的"},{"start":8734.67,"end":8752.285,"text":"阿我今天為什麼會把這個主題引來這邊你說對我不臭我就不相信阿阿那個是你去參加檢查的你也要跟我邀功,在我的地方你還跟我邀功,你實在滿夠的阿你這樣不夠深準,來"},{"start":8763.629,"end":8787.661,"text":"你現在要產業延期要1600公頃如果你內參的資料你延期給我花8、5公頃你也不要給我求延期的人那你我不曉得當經濟部長你這個產業發展室都還有那個什麼產業延期外我早就已經帶著他們去"},{"start":8789.397,"end":8789.837,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8811.489,"end":8831.48,"text":"現在科學園區的是150公頃,產業園區的另外是145公頃我告訴你,你如果真的對我好,你跟我到一趟苗栗電廠在通修火力化電廠全部供應北部的電"},{"start":8832.481,"end":8838.97,"text":"苗栗5座水庫都給臺中用,我們要收回來一些。其實慈蘭討論的海線地帶是發展"},{"start":8843.081,"end":8866.182,"text":"科技產業走廊最重要的地帶,剛好連接著臺中科學營區連在一起,不長不遠都是很近的,尤其孜然頭雲跟新竹科學營區幾乎是連在一起的,你看那地方嘛,你跑到,不是啦,桃園你要啦,但是不能太多。"},{"start":8867.043,"end":8892.754,"text":"垃圾成箱的差距苗栗是最重要發展地帶的您多多觀察我看你的道路建設都是在桃園新竹我表在哪裏不你給我講有啦就是說表在地帶你講國道1號的陽梅道頭份的拓寬工程那個拓寬工程合定了你沒了解我那邊西濱高加化也已經合定了"},{"start":8893.554,"end":8915.323,"text":"這是六十一號的這個平交道的那個平面道路齁,怎麼樣去讀?平交道的平面道路齁,六百萬是在高高的拆拖,那是雙軌化,你國外會沒有關到平交道的問題啦,所以你讀法表就沒法改。我們苗栗非常重視這個大矽谷計畫。"},{"start":8918.084,"end":8943.802,"text":"我們的賴清哲總統宣布大矽谷計畫是在苗栗縣宣布的害我受損很多但是為了地方繁榮發展我只有忍受下來所以我希望你在這一兩個月有空跟我到苗栗一趟半天就可以我給你點出苗栗的優勢苗栗是佔的地利苗栗的競爭力在哪裡好不好但是"},{"start":8944.982,"end":8948.065,"text":"我對苗栗的支持比如說那時候衛福部提到的這個國會議員他要蓋二廠的時候"},{"start":8967.921,"end":8993.627,"text":"不說惡劇馬上就批那個是疫苗你只有那個地方可以蓋那以前是我爭取過來的我跟你講我們要好了你不怎麼重視你只重視桃園只重視新直線只重視新直市所以跟我下一趟到苗栗我一定好好帶領好好給你了解苗栗的優勢優勢率在哪裡好不好地方配合款我們都沒有要求苗栗"},{"start":8994.227,"end":9000.952,"text":"謝謝,接下來我們請賴瑞榮委員請做詢答賴瑞榮委員詢答結束我們休息10分鐘那我們本會這一次的會議我們中午就不休息一直到我們會議結束謝謝,請發言好,謝謝趙委員齁,請廣州委我們再請廣州委"},{"start":9026.889,"end":9040.794,"text":"公主委辛苦了謝謝也謝謝你對這個國家的付出跟對整個辛苦了我想首先還是先關切今年的這個臺灣的經濟狀況看來在整個緊急的燈號其實持續的好轉到綠的那大概是終結過去17個月之後再次的綠燈那主委怎麼看接下來臺灣的整個經濟狀況包括緊急狀況是"},{"start":9055.143,"end":9075.622,"text":"委員您這邊的資料也可以看到就是12月份到1月份這邊所有的這個燈號除了這個出口之外還回到這個綠燈之外其他的都是變好的燈所以可以看到說它比較是一個全面性的指標不是單一指標產生的變化所以為什麼一次會增加5分就是這個意思所以"},{"start":9076.963,"end":9102.325,"text":"這樣的情況它會比較穩當所以為什麼我們對於2月份來講的話還是相對樂觀的意思就是這樣不會又會掉回去不會這樣的情況所以今年大概都會維持這樣的趨勢嗎現在看起來是這樣子是這樣子的那現在大概世界各國也估計台灣的這個經濟成長率大概是2.7到3.43那主計總署也估計大概是3.43主委就你個人的角度你怎麼來看待這個"},{"start":9103.3,"end":9120.785,"text":"是,因為我們覺得主席總書這樣的調整是有它的基礎,利潤基礎存在,而且它也是預估值,它是最近的預估值,因為看到了這個1月份的一些相關變化或2月份的相關變化,所以它有這樣的估計,所以我們對於3.43是"},{"start":9123.826,"end":9143.321,"text":"是相對樂觀的,甚至有可能會比這樣有更好的一些狀況的在後面再觀察,但至少3.43主委是認同這樣的一個的那另外我也想請教,國內外的局勢狀況下,後面有沒有什麼樣的一些變數,除了裡面有報告上有提到,有沒有什麼特別是國內一些因素上是我們特別要去注意的"},{"start":9144.258,"end":9145.519,"text":"國內的部分我們就"},{"start":9174.474,"end":9180.683,"text":"看起來現在就是持續來盡量至少就我們國發委來講的話我們如果要將這個順利的話"},{"start":9184.474,"end":9211.834,"text":"去年編的預算我們就盡量的把它真的去落實包括我們現在推動的六大海星戰略產業啊、競雲還有數位轉型的一些推動我倒是有點擔心現在國內我當然也希望是短期的就國內的包括現在不管是國會的一些狀況或者是整個政局的狀況我倒是有些擔心這樣狀況會不會影響到國內未來的經濟表現就政治性的一些因素是不是可以無縫接軌對,我們期盼這一任跟下一任的政府對,就是順利的啦"},{"start":9212.234,"end":9231.614,"text":"所以這8年來有一些好的一些經濟上的成果也來自於整個很順利的...所以我剛才為什麼特別提到我們現在就是除了我們盡量的執行已經框定的預算之外那明年的預算我們現在就要開始籌編了就是先起作業要不然的話新任的政府520上任以後到8月份他可能會來不及"},{"start":9232.014,"end":9247.586,"text":"我們現在會做好第一輪的這個先進作業所以從這個角度講也沒有所謂什麼看守內閣這樣的問題就該作為的事情但必然要作為嘛難道到520之前的時候政府也是該做不做就是一定要持續來做同時間在520之後的能夠快速的銜接上去"},{"start":9248.547,"end":9270.477,"text":"沒有任何停下來的空間也必須要加快那我也請教一下其實大家在關心包括電價明天有一個電價的報告那因為電價包括國際的能源的這個原料的一些跟國內的採購的成本其實有很大的落差所以台頓的虧損我們也想辦法來做一個解決那電價看來漲是有一定的壓力在的"},{"start":9270.677,"end":9288.454,"text":"那這個對於未來我們的這個CPI我看一下報告上面也都有寫到大概原來估1.79其實算是這一段有點降了但是如果再加上0.12的話可能到1.91那剛剛早上主委有提到甚至有一些延伸性的效果的話有可能到2甚至到3這個這樣的狀況0.2、0.3"},{"start":9293.719,"end":9318.516,"text":"總體上會到有可能過到2那這樣的話對整個這樣的狀況主委怎麼看待所以我們為什麼這個物價的這個有一個小組就是穩定物價小組對穩定物價小組所以還是會持續的關注看看有沒有一些配套措施現在就是說有一些源頭的這個原料價格原料的這個關稅等等的一些情況是我們"},{"start":9320.96,"end":9339.382,"text":"我看到主委裡面有一個穩定國內物價也是你的重要的包括你的風險跟因應的工作那我問一下主委那當然接下來這也是要去面對我想問一下主委整體來看因為當然台電包括電價的問題的話主委整體來看你的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":9340.163,"end":9366.652,"text":"要不要試著做一些調整那調整後對整個CPI的整個影響上怎麼去做一個好的對因為現在主義總數預估的大概是1.85那當然因為現在電價還沒有做最後確定假設假設電價如果有調升的話當然就會可能在2以上或以下這個2的話如果跟其他國家來比的話這樣的數字還是低還是低的所以應該是在可接受的一個範圍內現在全世界"},{"start":9367.432,"end":9368.193,"text":"主委同意這樣的看法嗎?"},{"start":9391.536,"end":9397.25,"text":"我想經濟部他會做一些考量對一些不同的產業他可能會有一些分眾的一些設計"},{"start":9399.632,"end":9425.305,"text":"我們也希望主委有機會在政府不要全部都只靠漲電價來做處理我覺得台電那個是要面對解決但是我還希望政府能夠給予一定的補貼進來的金費的補貼而是支柱那些我想用電大貨只是大廠它本身的獲利狀況好它來支付合理的不然你虧損都由人民來支付這也不合理就大的有那個付但是比較辛苦的民生這一塊的"},{"start":9426.445,"end":9426.565,"text":"對,就是說"},{"start":9438.447,"end":9455.566,"text":"原則上來講,照顧名聲還是很重要的部分所以這個原則還是會有這樣的原則穩定物價也是一個重要的工作但如果有機會透過不管是微調、電價、不管是政府的補貼我們也希望國發會能夠大力來支持"},{"start":9456.747,"end":9482.106,"text":"那再來我還是要回到講一下天使基金的部分其實主委也很重視啦那整個投資金額35.37億那甚至在上次有提到希望增加到百億這個我們很支持啦但是我也想講的是在上次也質詢過啦其實光北部跟南部其實有很大的落差我上次講過臺北市光增加了就59家而高雄是增加3家而最新的資訊的時候最近"},{"start":9482.807,"end":9482.847,"text":"會 這個部分"},{"start":9498.297,"end":9521.669,"text":"可不可以在下次的這個看到的時候有更顯出在南部不管是高雄、台南甚至嘉義有更好的一些成長的狀況現在就是說高雄的他來申請的案基本上都過現在就是說要把那個申請案把它擴大上次有跟主委提到要更多的輔導跟協助他們讓他們能夠更多的提案出來因為他們提案我們也都支持但我希望"},{"start":9522.589,"end":9540.528,"text":"所以為什麼在亞系的3.0我們會擴大這個部分就是這個部分增加這個注資因為我們有目標未來四年裡面獲得投資的金額要翻倍所以要有更積極的做法光如果主委講到百億的話"},{"start":9541.349,"end":9568.349,"text":"我希望這些南部的部分可以大幅的一個成長好不好這個對南部的這些會有很大的一個注意因為我看到你亞系3.0的架構整個也都提出來了不管是在AI這也是南部現在亞灣的一個重點項目還是你的新創不管是南部也有亞灣新創園包括矽谷的相關計畫在進行包括數位這一塊都在進行我也希望這一塊主委跟國防很有意識的去協助南部來做這個推動好不好我們希望看到很具體的一些成果我會持續追蹤"},{"start":9569.19,"end":9578.256,"text":"再來問一下上次有提到亞灣創新研發中心的進度主委當時跟我講一個月內會邀請高雄市政府的相關部會來做推動這個後來有結果嗎?"},{"start":9581.234,"end":9598.961,"text":"我們大概有相對的詢問各部會目前可能的設置狀況當然經濟部想說它也可以釋出包括睪丸二期的一些相關基地如果真的有成型的話我們就來...當時說一個月後會給我一個具體的結果 有消息了嗎?"},{"start":9605.461,"end":9629.951,"text":"我們在去年的時候是已經有給辦公室了那如果還要再補充資料那主委可不可以講一下有OK的嗎有要做這樣的推動嗎就是雅灣的創新研發中心現在就是我們可能還要再詢問高雄市政府他還有這個中小企業是不是有確定的那是不是請主委在兩個禮拜內給我一個具體的答案好不好來做這樣的一個設置的計畫好不好好謝謝主委謝謝"},{"start":9634.346,"end":9634.746,"text":"休息10分鐘"},{"start":9670.826,"end":9671.246,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9890.58,"end":9890.663,"text":"字幕提供"},{"start":9936.527,"end":9965.282,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":9987.415,"end":9987.773,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10232.52,"end":10259.789,"text":"好,現在我們繼續開會請莊瑞雄委員請做詢答謝謝主席,有請我們國發會我們公主會好,我們請公主會主委好這個啊現在沒在經濟所以就比較少幫你忙著啦常常有一些少子化的問題"},{"start":10262.072,"end":10284.051,"text":"委員會再問我記得我去年上一次問的時候是去年9月針對傻子話的一個現象提出質詢那本席想再次來向你做一個請教就是說從1950年時代在我們台灣恐怕當初也都沒有去想到說會有求子不得將的一個窘境那個時候台灣的婦女平均一人生7胎"},{"start":10285.287,"end":10287.228,"text":"國民黨時代推行的政策都是維持一個降低人口的成長率適量的一個生育等等"},{"start":10306.716,"end":10326.603,"text":"那同一個時間裡面其實當時你是可以看到那個是德國、日本都早都已經開始注意到少子化的一個威脅並開始相關的一個對策那本席要指出來就是說台灣的一個少子化嚴峻或許因為我們意識的太晚我們差不多到了2010年左右才驚覺到可能是一個國安的一個問題而"},{"start":10330.005,"end":10345.531,"text":"2018 2018年才由我們國會統籌各部會來制定對策綱領並協調各個部會一起來努力但是就算說你去意識到並展開行動你去看日本2023年的新生兒人數是758,631人他比2022年還是減少了5.1%連續8年日本也創下統計以來最低的一個紀錄"},{"start":10356.676,"end":10370.996,"text":"韓國呢他過去為了解決少子化的一個問題啊他投入這個資源喔可怕6.6兆的新台幣那就是說280兆的一個韓元到了2023年這個特殊的一個出生率啊這個還是啊跌到0.72同樣"},{"start":10373.459,"end":10398.308,"text":"連續8年還是創限低日本如此韓國如此那少子化可以說是這已開發國家裡面必然面對的一個難題甚至本席都還認為說你這個你很難去根本去做處理那內政部日前公布了一個國安危機少子化浪潮的一個報告其中有提到了日本總生育率在1980年代是亞洲主要國家裡面的最後一名但是到了2005年開始"},{"start":10401.109,"end":10423.263,"text":"注意一攀升到首位可見我們的政策目標首先應該是說放緩少子化的一個現象先達到放緩然後再試著去根除少子化的一個現象那這麼多的一個經費的一個挹注可能大家也要去重新去思考這個其實它不是一種攝服"},{"start":10424.321,"end":10444.699,"text":"建物集開是一種投資是一種投資未來人口的一個問題這個嚴峻而且涉及的層面非常廣大我也知道說這個不是單一個部會就可以去處理必須要大家共同你像比如說國發會、勞動部、內政部、經濟部、衛福部、高通部、省際財政部相關部會可以著力的一個地方"},{"start":10445.64,"end":10470.686,"text":"我記得民進黨政府201616年當然開始各部會也提出了非常多的政策跟修法像是放寬、育嬰還有留職、停薪等條件0到6歲國家一起養提升公托準公托數量等營造一個友善養兒的一個育兒的一個環境的一個政策相關預算也大幅增加所以我要請教主委就是說現在網路上電話說現在在說的少子化就說啊我們的政府只創一個少子化辦公室只這幾年這樣你感到福氣"},{"start":10477.142,"end":10482.404,"text":"現在行政院林鄭委員有一個對策﹖就是少子化的一個對策﹖跨部會的一個對策﹖一個平台在討論這樣的事情﹖所以為什麼各部會都有相關的動作﹖為什麼那個預算會從過去的100多億現在已經超過1000億來協助生跟養的一個環境"},{"start":10506.499,"end":10512.765,"text":"那當然是一種投資啦,我要講的就是說,我們2018年你制定對策計畫以後,你現在也沒5年了啦你除了150年計畫調整規劃以外,是不是該有一個總檢討?而且你當年那個對策計畫是107到113年了,等於到今年而已,也沒了,那你的下一步呢?"},{"start":10529.261,"end":10557.189,"text":"現在已經就是我剛才特別提到的那個林政委那邊已經在處理這件事情這個其實喔這個真的是對未來一個投資本席再舉兩個例子我在內政委員會我也分別針對少子化的問題向原民會跟客會來提出詢問就詢問說自當年的少子化對策綱領制定以後兩個跟族群相關的部會是不是有配合提出任何的對策答案是沒有"},{"start":10558.342,"end":10578.372,"text":"答案是沒有所以我現在很高興的就是說像這個政策也跟不上你像譬如說去年同樣在內委會我們在修那個住宅法的時候啊修法的同時放寬政府住宅協助措施的經濟跟社會弱勢資格的時候我們從原有、預有3名以上的未成年子女現在調整這2名對不對但是呢當時我本席就認為說會不會真的要2名"},{"start":10584.415,"end":10590.7,"text":"我當然知道說因為數量的問題要定定一定的資格啦所以我要請到主委最後一個問題就是說國會現在享有當年統籌各部會制定少子化對策之名但對於各部會配合少子化的一個協調、溝通跟管道"},{"start":10610.534,"end":10626.045,"text":"我都打上一個問號是不是國會可以從上位的角度去思考說全盤人口政策怎麼樣去調整跟精進甚至於加積極跟努力成效未必會看得到但是發現那個方向是對的"},{"start":10627.21,"end":10627.27,"text":"委員會主持"},{"start":10652.365,"end":10653.166,"text":"接下來我們請賴世保委員請做詢答"},{"start":10686.843,"end":10691.544,"text":"謝謝主席有請我們的公主委我們再請公主委主委你好要不要先恭喜你要當部長是不是經濟部長沒有啦部長現在這大批誰比這大的沒影子的啦沒影子?沒影子阿如果真心鬧你勒沒有啦沒有啦沒有啦"},{"start":10718.63,"end":10722.271,"text":"還沒接到,會電話就對了喔!大家剛才這個專委員也是沒有關心的題目喔!少子化我們今年度預算投入1200億對吧!去年是1000億!"},{"start":10738.608,"end":10757.656,"text":"結果我們的出生率還是越來越低我們去年的人口出生數13萬死掉的20萬臺灣真的進入一個生不如死的世界今天大家都不要生不結婚1200億過去1000億效果都不好所以我就想到一個方法"},{"start":10767.613,"end":10773.256,"text":"鼓勵升第三台現金Cash給一百萬,可以嗎?來請回答,可以嗎?"},{"start":10782.403,"end":10788.346,"text":"我覺得任何努力都可以來做思考我告訴你我們現在財運不是問題財運什麼是問題我造算給你13萬出生人口有三胎的我們10%10%所以1.3萬1.3萬、1百萬你告訴我,多少啊?130億啊"},{"start":10809.929,"end":10823.561,"text":"我們額外的企業我們一千兩百億裡面博一百三十億、一百五十億鼓勵生第三胎第三胎一定要生第一胎、第二胎才在第三胎不是直接跳第三胎這這麼好的政策"},{"start":10828.442,"end":10829.544,"text":"我們會提到林政委的這個少子化對策平台我們會提"},{"start":10843.82,"end":10858.089,"text":"你知道民意代表常常跑這些紅白帖啊人家結婚的時候啊一結婚新人我就鼓勵他愛緊緊早生貴子多生貴子然後plus我就講這個證件吼掌聲如雷勒"},{"start":10859.107,"end":10884.114,"text":"我就問了 啊 我要生嗎 打那麼舉手 有的60幾歲也說要舉 要生 你說不是啊 我叫我媳婦生啦 我叫我女兒生啦 這個政策很受歡迎啦 你去基層跑看看 生第三胎給一百萬 大家吼就去找大女兒 掌聲如雷啊 很好的政策 這個反正是好的政策嘛 我想水雷吹都一樣 這沒有正常意思 第二個"},{"start":10886.268,"end":10894.174,"text":"聽說而且看起來是電價是漲定了這個陳院長都說他怎麼想到陳先生也不知道有有烏克蘭戰爭所以電一定要漲那台電講說漲11%的話就CPI影響到0.2%看起來台電是往這個方向走經濟部往這個方向走那個主委你要講一下嗎"},{"start":10913.38,"end":10916.082,"text":"總電價跟CPI之間有什麼影響?講一下給我們聽。"},{"start":10935.467,"end":10938.168,"text":"上漲率是比較高的。 是的啊。 那今年是降到?"},{"start":10938.168,"end":10943.751,"text":"三天以前不敢漲,選賭局批評要漲這個東西我算一個帳台電今年又要虧2000億喔然後原來資本額3300億那我們已經給他增加1500億了資本額4800又要增加1000億,5800的資本額可是台電的核四按照相關的規定他應該要報廢掉了"},{"start":10963.735,"end":10986.633,"text":"因為已經確定不起核四了嘛阿你做海膽股先去賣不知道賣什麼所以這2800現在是放在資產如果把這資產要拿掉的話他一定是急急可危阿就一天到晚就是你瞭解最後一點最後一點那個碳交易喔你們也是股東嘛對不對你們是股東嘛齁現在碳交易喔這個很奇怪勒"},{"start":10990.894,"end":11018.146,"text":"國內廠商不能買缺缺這個因為現在國際都要這個東西啊缺然後我們的碳交易只能買國外的好像Casino一樣好像你開個賭場阿對實質上的產業減碳都沒有幫助欸第二階段就會就是國內的碳會的供給就會出來第二階段什麼時候開始啊因為他現在還有什麼時候開始什麼時候他還有四個執法這個四個執法完成以後就什麼時候問問問"},{"start":11020.256,"end":11023.218,"text":"什麼時候?6月可以嗎?換新政府可以嗎?60天兩個月而已啊!欸!這個執法需要搞這麼久的時間喔!這效率也不一樣!"},{"start":11042.73,"end":11056.256,"text":"因為他的利害關係人非常多包括民間廠商還有一般群眾還有等等現在的你現在講說哎呀好像對於全世界講臺灣很注重這個淨零排放所以我們有探權交易結果都是假的啊因為只能只能對國外的探權進行買賣就一個Casino就是一個賭場還有賭的籌碼就是探權這樣而已啊這東西很滑稽啊這很滑稽啊"},{"start":11069.321,"end":11069.862,"text":"來釋法委員來釋法委員請舉過"},{"start":11098.686,"end":11098.986,"text":"中嘉賓委員請作詢答"},{"start":11124.662,"end":11151.51,"text":"主委好、處長好那主委請教一下因為請詹處長來是因為想問這個問題目前台灣的半導體在南部的生產越來越重要請問你知道台灣所生產的晶片大概南北的比例怎麼樣竹科、中科、南科還有在高雄以及未來在高雄的高雄煉油廠陳其邁市長已經把它清理要交給台晶電生產你覺得呢未來10年內的台灣的半導體晶片生產重心會在哪裡"},{"start":11152.298,"end":11155.483,"text":"目前包括南科的晶片是從哪裡出口的?"},{"start":11167.991,"end":11189.382,"text":"還是桃園機場?好,那我們來看一下,如果未來,未來我們的台灣的半導體晶片生產重心已經難移,那你覺得南部半導體的出口貨運需求的解約方案,就看那個小港機場嘛,那你認為需不需要再考慮這個問題,運輸的時間跟能量、量能,你覺得設立貨運機場還在擴建原來小港機場?"},{"start":11192.631,"end":11215.408,"text":"是,我想委員提到一個好的議題因為如果有多元的機場當然除了舊近南部可以提供他的一些facility之外那我想對於這個供應鏈的韌性也會有所幫助沒有錯,我們如果所有晶片都往淘機送在高速公路上耗費3個小時以上"},{"start":11217.011,"end":11236.367,"text":"那高速公路一塞車我們這個供應鏈就可能會斷鏈往下看齁我們來看一下目前台灣各機場貨運量齁淘機你看一下齁在客運的部分其他的機場加起來不到淘機淘機都占了一半以上這是客運那你覺得貨運呢台灣的貨運出口貨運在哪個機場最重要"},{"start":11238.302,"end":11238.623,"text":"委員會主任委員會主席"},{"start":11249.244,"end":11269.175,"text":"各位這樣講?對。差不多是這樣嗎?好,那我們看一下。再看看別的事情好了。你認為過去在疫情期間,我們的國際航空、華航跟長榮是賠錢還是賺錢?是賺錢,主要是貨運。對,你看,沒有錯。在110年跟11年,我看到的資料呢,華航在110年,它的"},{"start":11270.355,"end":11297.74,"text":"昨年呢,他的同年的貨運是當年客運的20倍啊在11年也有將近快5倍對不對表示這些國際航空公司他主要在疫情期間主要是靠什麼?靠貨運營收嘛再看看長榮長榮呢在11年呢他的貨運是客運的10倍到了11年呢也有快這個快8、9倍所以我們很清楚在疫情期間那現在呢現在這下"},{"start":11298.9,"end":11322.97,"text":"現在航空公司主要在國際航空公司主要是靠什麼?現在疫情已經過去了嘛。觀光人潮也回來了嘛。你估計大概是什麼情況?有沒有客貨怎麼樣比?現在貨的部分還是需求很大啦。還是大於客運的需求。為什麼客運有些班級沒有辦法提升?就是因為他轉成貨以後,比較不容易轉回來的,還是持續。就是說因為客運目前還是貨大於客。好,我們現在看。"},{"start":11323.59,"end":11351.317,"text":"但你看最近的新聞啊桃園機場稅修啊造成大塞機你覺得會塞的是什麼機?塞了客機就擋了貨機是不是這樣子?因為客人不能等嘛如果你是塔台你要讓哪個機先降?讓客機先起降嘛那這種情況之下我說過九成六的貨運是從桃機出桃機又以客運優先那當桃機稅修我們的出口就癱瘓了你覺得這樣有這個可能性?"},{"start":11353.533,"end":11356.295,"text":"現在好像班機要慢慢的恢復了其實目前呢 這個淘機的運﹑旅客的運能已經恢復了7成小港只有恢復5成 你覺得什麼原因"},{"start":11381.755,"end":11385.778,"text":"小港為什麼連客運都不想去?小港的問題在哪裡?"},{"start":11385.778,"end":11388.601,"text":"主委我跟你說啦小港的問題高雄的委員李博義委員在這裡很清楚"},{"start":11403.932,"end":11427.327,"text":"20小時不能20小時降貨機對不對貨機要20小時降居民抗議晚上太吵腹地不足你的貨機還有周邊的什麼倉儲轉運這些配套他都沒有所以最後的結論要出來了你覺得如果未來我們辦法體從高台南部出口的需求如果量很大的話是不是如果你把這個需求交給交通部交通部是要去評估在南部建一個貨運機場"},{"start":11428.348,"end":11456.957,"text":"包括說它的用地取得包括周邊產業規劃跟大眾運輸的接駁你覺得是不是要先把你的出口需求評估出來可以嗎可以那你是不是可以在一個月內把我們半導體從南部出口需求預估未來5到10年這個量估出來我好去澳洲交通部趕快就南部的貨運機場的運能做個評估可以嗎一個月夠不夠我們來試試看一個月評估未來5到10年台灣的半導體出口從南部出口的貨運需求好不好好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝處長謝謝主席"},{"start":11462.54,"end":11464.201,"text":"主席謝謝,麻煩請公主位我們再請公主位"},{"start":11486.022,"end":11499.382,"text":"主席,你好。兩個議題再跟你請教。第一,本期很認真嚴謹地看了一下今天的業務報告。但是我說實在話,方方面面都有寫到,但是到底核心跟重點是什麼?"},{"start":11500.163,"end":11528.571,"text":"我記得本期之前在經濟委員會的時候也請教過您就是說未來我們現在的施政不要只是看短期而是要先想國家長遠的政策發展包括經濟發展那其中有提到我覺得我們國家大家都在講說能源的部分尤其是你這邊也開宗明義就有講到說2050淨零碳排要來達成那2050淨零碳排很大的一個關鍵就是要降低這個火力發電嘛"},{"start":11530.933,"end":11548.426,"text":"對那火力發電的部分那你現在你們提出的一個方案是什麼還是用綠電跟再生能源再生能源還是很重要的一部分因為原來就預估大概在2050年的時候再生能源在我們的發電比例可能是6成到7成左右那但是"},{"start":11549.591,"end":11571.397,"text":"你就是要把那個火力發電降下來但是沒有辦法因為台灣的特殊環境你沒有辦法那麼多的再生能源那會透過CCUS的方式那我現在想請教就是說我們現在目標到底有沒有改變到2050年的時候我們再生能源的占比要到多少大概60到7060到70但你的這個解決方案你的再生能源包括什麼"},{"start":11572.342,"end":11597.172,"text":"所以說我現在看到的嘛就是你第9頁裡面有綠電跟再生能源嘛但是你提到的還是離岸風電然後太陽能板提到一些但是其他就沒啦我們現在在講是說過去國家已經投入那麼多的一個資源而且再加上風跟光最主要的大家考慮或是扛慎的最大關鍵是它不是一個穩定的能源來源"},{"start":11600.713,"end":11621.978,"text":"所以我們現在新興能源的部份正在研究開發的部份就是地熱的部份,因為一般預估對臺灣...對,氫能那在報告裡面的哪一頁?氫能它不在綠能裡面,它是另外...地熱或是氫能或是任何的能源在今天的報告哪一頁?"},{"start":11624.634,"end":11628.976,"text":"不是比較細你剛剛講2050的時候他要佔6成到7成換言之今天20、50、30有50的藍氣、30的藍莓、20的再生2050廢核家園你已經跳票了嘛"},{"start":11643.424,"end":11672.104,"text":"現在本席要講的是說我們因為今天是第一次的國發會來經濟委員會報告你照理講2024年的開頭應該是要有對於未來有一個完整化尤其是我們在去年前年也已經訂了2050淨零碳排的目標往前回推現在20幾年20幾年沒有很快沒有很久欸對其實馬上就到了欸對那所以說本席現在想要講的是說這個就是我們現在短視近利的一個狀況"},{"start":11674.405,"end":11700.419,"text":"你已經講了6層到7層要用再生能源本席也問您就是說你現在能源的部分大家都很擔憂那你現在提出來整篇報告裡面有提到能源的就是在第9月的綠能跟再生能源但是綠能的部分你們只強調說我們現在有做多少的離岸風電有做多少太陽能的部分可是對於其他隻字未提那你到底你要怎麼達成到底有沒有在我們現在的想法裡面"},{"start":11701.041,"end":11715.112,"text":"有阿有阿,就是我剛才特別提到,因為那個還沒有辦法三旋三轉,所以比較是示範性的,包括地熱,還有海洋團等等。不管是示範性或是規劃或是等等,你是不是應該現在已經著手要去執行動作?有有有,對。在哪裡?"},{"start":11718.184,"end":11745.159,"text":"因為今天的報告沒有辦法那麼多啦 因為那個非常非常多 最後我們可以提供 主委本席點出這個點 最主要就是希望說在整個國家的長遠發展 尤其我們現在如果說比較看 有一個進程的目標就有一個目標2050出來 那應該是往前回推 這一些都是我們現在應該關注的 對沒有錯 主委另外一個部分本席也看到了"},{"start":11746.704,"end":11769.395,"text":"你報告後面有講到我們國發會另外一個重要的議題就是國家的檔案管理所以你在最後第33頁用一個標題深化國家檔案開發禁用那整個一整頁的內容全都在講國家檔案那我覺得最重要的本席的選區有一個國家檔案管那你的報告勒?"},{"start":11772.844,"end":11773.444,"text":"2050就要落成"},{"start":11788.843,"end":11811.361,"text":"2025就要落成就明年要落成嘛 對不對在報告裡面隻字未提啊是現在沒有把握要開放是不是沒有我們進度來超前進度超前那為什麼整個這本期就好奇了一方面你剛剛講的是說哇那個太遠了地能什麼不夠成熟所以說我報告裡面沒有辦法寫那麼細那我現在有一個29億的投資20"},{"start":11814.403,"end":11841.908,"text":"19年通過並且20212011年招標出去本席那時候還協助來不管是說提高預算等等的結果你在報告裡面國家檔案館2025年要落成開放使用也隻字未提那讓本席擔心是不是有可能有跳票不會不會不會跳票進度超前這個委員那時候上樑的時候委員有來參加是所以說這就是讓本席好奇的地方是說你今天這個報告"},{"start":11843.632,"end":11863.692,"text":"有沒有認真仔細的在做不要以為這報告做出來大家沒在看我想我們立法委員的職責就是監督政府做得好你不要期待我們給你掌聲因為這本來就是公僕應該做但是做不好我們一定會提醒那2025年的國家檔案館以及本席再借用30秒本席也希望"},{"start":11865.011,"end":11891.502,"text":"本來我有一個臨時提案是希望要針對說我們國發會這邊要召集因為馬上就要落成了那地方的民眾也很關心尤其是在地方的社群媒體不管是那個圍牆的鷹架拆除大家就很期待那未來怎麼樣這個國家檔案館跟地方共榮共存並且有更多周邊民眾都可以一起來使用讓地方的人士也覺得是說有一個國家檔案館在我們地區是一個我們地方的光榮"},{"start":11892.222,"end":11921.407,"text":"我講這觀光感大家要提升還有包括說我們之後地方創生怎麼樣用國家檔案館當成是一個基地跟據點能夠帶動地方的地方創生我想這之後本席也會再提相關的提案決議那也希望在兩個月內可以由國發會這邊來召集我們地方以及新北市政府這邊來做一個開會討論好的可以嗎可以我們一起往這個方向來邁進好不好好謝謝主委"},{"start":11927.334,"end":11927.814,"text":"蔡議員請做詢答"},{"start":11961.023,"end":11971.467,"text":"謝謝主席。我們是不是有請我們國發會公主委那以及國土區域離島發展處的黃處長好我們請兩位主委這個現在我想那個主委很清楚齁台積電"},{"start":11989.728,"end":12011.124,"text":"應該他的封測場目前考量是在嘉義科學園區、太保的科學園區看起來考量而且經過一段時間的努力嘛那包括有所謂環境影響、環境差異評估的一些大概都布局都布局得差不多啦現在就整台基電對外定頭這樣是不是這樣"},{"start":12015.624,"end":12032.332,"text":"對 所以主委我想這個要很感謝啦很感謝包括我們國發會經濟部整個行政院事實上在於這一次台積電封測場在擇址然後在嘉義這個地方我們對於整個行政團隊我們很感謝但是我們也知道"},{"start":12032.992,"end":12048.883,"text":"因為要因應這樣的一個先進封裝廠要來,事實上還需要很多基礎設施的佈局,所以我想主委一定都很清楚。所以這個佈局包括說,未來這個先進封測,我想這很厲害,主委你想不想介紹一下這個先進封測?"},{"start":12055.687,"end":12070.277,"text":"因為它是比較先進,就是前端的,它不是成熟的是COAS那個部分COAS嘛,3D封測嘛,一定是說未來晶圓也得含其他的不同的晶圓它的計算模式,它把它包成從一個然後用立體式的方式然後把它變成這個晶圓的運算能力更多元而且它不會更產生熱然後去影響到它的整個的一個運算所以這台晶圓是很厲害的"},{"start":12084.828,"end":12105.268,"text":"他這樣的封測想要加益,所以我們可以想像啦,注意我現在說因為封測這畢竟大家都會說他怎麼會,那都比較未來的事我現在應該重點我們把它放在封測這樣的一個概念那如果是封測的話,未來就有很多先進的先進製程,他會進來太保"},{"start":12106.409,"end":12121.108,"text":"會進來嘉義科學園區因為他必須要做最後的封測封裝嘛 對不對所以未來就是說包括橋科包括南科他們家的金園就要運到嘉義然後做封裝然後最後再出口"},{"start":12121.849,"end":12122.55,"text":"稍後再出口"},{"start":12152.389,"end":12153.991,"text":"稍後的稍後的稍後的稍後的稍後的稍後"},{"start":12178.689,"end":12205.179,"text":"他也要有這個封裝封測的一個過程所以這是一個拜託主委家用國安會用比較上位的一個角度跟交通部溝通拔這個然後既然要拔我就提出了一個比較具體的建議就是說現在我們這裡的經援多少多少嘉賓就在我前面就先諮詢了他就說未來的出口我們這個先進的一些經援要出口就是一個很重要的一個導向"},{"start":12205.939,"end":12221.399,"text":"但是要出口我們就發現了從嘉義的水上機場、台南的機場、花蓮、台東的機場事實上這個有部分是軍民合用的機場小港機場也一樣事實上南部的機場有一個最大的問題就是宵禁"},{"start":12225.079,"end":12238.173,"text":"臺灣沒有宵禁的機場大概就只有桃園機場所以目前我們所有的會員求集中台基建機場的要快速運送的大概都要跑到桃園去運送成本太高"},{"start":12239.35,"end":12268.102,"text":"那如果咧,如果未來像我剛才所說的這樣我們的先進製程的,說要先在嘉義完成它的封測跟封裝的話我覺得主委,咱嘉義水上機場如果以它的先天條件,它在旁邊還有很大的一個腹地我們這個腹地咧,包括說它這個跑道的長度可以檢測目前嘉義的跑道長度已經跟台南是一樣大的,比小港還要長比花蓮也還要長,跑道長度是夠的"},{"start":12269.539,"end":12277.199,"text":"那這一個旁邊的周圍的戶地也夠那我們要不要來考慮正式把嘉義水上機場"},{"start":12279.046,"end":12299.706,"text":"把他提升未來以貨運為導向然後以貨機然後可以飛到瞬間可以最快的最短的成本運送成本最快速的把這樣的晶圓的一些製品運送到各國去咱是不是可以朝這方面來做一個佈局"},{"start":12301.148,"end":12325.384,"text":"對,委員剛剛跟總委員一樣就是可能南部要有一個這樣的一個機制設在哪裡我想我們再跟交通部來...當然當然,所以你們要去拼啦,你們去拼因為這個只要變成了國際的一個卡古機場啦最重要就是要取消宵禁,取消宵禁的話我們也知道說會面對居民,附近居民這要用心去溝通,因為這些居民要讓他們接受"},{"start":12330.028,"end":12335.078,"text":"所以我現在要跟你們說,相對其他地方,這裡有一個優勢,我們這叫做落後的優勢,我們這裡人比較少"},{"start":12339.6,"end":12348.606,"text":"你如果小工那些人很多,那可能就難處理。這是我們落後優勢,我們那些人現在比較少。所以我們是在說,既然未來要拼這個溝通,我們就有這個優勢。一來你們就評估一下,事實上這個東西,我從一個國際機場來我們酒瓶,當然站在那附近的人,他們會看不到。"},{"start":12361.215,"end":12381.692,"text":"他們說我們要在現建,我們這房地產要走,可能也有機會就走,在基中旁可是對於周遭的一個發展那就不一樣了,他就變成一個以貨運當然有貨運當然,現在貨運也是客運是減的,因為都廢棄港一家賣去的,減作費所以這也是一個很好一個,未來可以看得見的一個趨勢"},{"start":12389.998,"end":12406.708,"text":"新加坡航空公司加運送晶圓賺大錢這是去年底的一個新聞新加坡航空公司因為再送晶圓在全國缺晶圓的時候一直賺大錢"},{"start":12408.098,"end":12428.998,"text":"所以我覺得主委這部分你來拍一拍好不好我們來跟相關部會討論一下好那在第二個啦時間是很短的我就在講啦那講到了這個事實上布袋雷布袋三港這個阿姆朱毅說過一遍事實上你對這裡的環境也都很清楚"},{"start":12429.659,"end":12445.457,"text":"那我們現在所有布袋周邊的港因為外山頂洲的飄沙的一個問題讓我們整個布袋的漁港或者是東石所有的漁港事實上都沒有符合法定應該要到達的漁港的一個深度"},{"start":12446.428,"end":12446.748,"text":"稍稍稍稍稍稍"},{"start":12461.688,"end":12485.458,"text":"那有時打到頭,那時候就冰准,那是一個風險所以我具體建議啦,我們在於東石白水湖南側這裡有一個過去的一個溪湖,就是過去的柏山柏山的地方,這片非常大那我具體建議我們來做田沙造路,像過去我們布地那邊是新地"},{"start":12487.159,"end":12506.988,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":12507.677,"end":12520.524,"text":"這個也是要主委講主委你也是站在這整個國土的一個台灣整個國土必須要可以有效的規劃像這個可以來做一個評估嗎?有這個以前的市府嘛"},{"start":12524.426,"end":12534.938,"text":"阿這以前就是我們祖先的培養的地方,阿現在因為培養不合,沒人在培養阿,所以這塊放在這裡培養的,你看培養多久了,阿所以這過去這裡也有補分,我一家企鵝阿啦,不然越來越淺,企鵝阿也逐一救他阿,所以這塊很不好,這樣我們真的每天三天照路,這樣好不好"},{"start":12544.108,"end":12544.628,"text":"接下來我們請黃國昌委員請做詢談"},{"start":12584.348,"end":12591.397,"text":"議事主委員請協助我們再請公主委"},{"start":12602.442,"end":12624.64,"text":"6年前我在經濟委員會開始做一個離譜到不行的弊案那個時候我一直搞不清楚我們的國發基金丟了15億給一家莫名其妙的公司叫如新我們的國發基金應該是要促進產業升級轉型結果去投了一家在做牛仔布代工廠的"},{"start":12625.796,"end":12650.045,"text":"媒體在批評我在立法院持續的追結果我搞不清楚這個盧欽啊背後到底是誰當靠山讓我們的國發基金投了15億下去讓他在台灣的投資市場騙廣大的投資人把錢洗到中國裡面去胡搞瞎搞我那個時候問陳美玲"},{"start":12650.905,"end":12661.775,"text":"所以您說投資評估過程嚴謹可遭公信請教一下今天的主委今天的國發會還會認為投資如新是過程嚴謹可遭公信嗎?對!所以這樣的一個結果你們今天看認為過程嚴謹嗎?"},{"start":12674.468,"end":12679.234,"text":"報告委員這個後來監察院他也有來調查當然也有給我們建議那當然這個案子監察院什麼時候調查的"},{"start":12693.39,"end":12716.975,"text":"應該是去年還前年就出來了等到出事才調查有什麼用我2018年站在這邊我一而再再而三的告訴國發基金有問題有問題趕快處理現在站在你旁邊的這位出來手帶著人到辦公室來跟我說國發會一定會處理處理了什麼什麼都沒有處理為什麼我敢這樣講"},{"start":12718.885,"end":12747.197,"text":"你們說重大投資案 過程嚴謹 調出會議紀錄 開什麼會啊不是代理 就是請假 典型的先設件再畫把這些人有開什麼會啊 結果最後的結果是什麼決策炒算 黑箱操作 財報造假 詐騙投資人把台灣無辜投資大眾的錢吸來了以後 洗到中國去污2018年"},{"start":12749.008,"end":12753.391,"text":"我一直提醒國家會是要處理,處理了什麼?處理了什麼?所以咧?派了代表以後然後呢?處理了什麼?請你告訴我,處理了什麼?所以你們到今天認為這是個人因素喔?"},{"start":12775.373,"end":12788.859,"text":"那個財報造假什麼時候造假的你知道嗎你知道嗎國發會投的時候就是假的了不是後來才是假的欸你們怎麼評估的那個財報當時來講是有報金管會當初已經看過的"},{"start":12795.692,"end":12810.682,"text":"所以呢?所以你們看過,經管會看過,大家分擔責任,最後誰要負責?所以嘛,我就問你嘛,你們那個時候採取什麼措施?我一而再再而三提醒國發會要處理,處理了什麼?我今天就問這個簡單的問題,處理了什麼?對嘛,那也是出事以後嘛,那是2022年的事欸,我拜託你啊,2018年"},{"start":12825.932,"end":12842.904,"text":"到2022年我離開立法院以後我跟崔少仁合作我們鍥而不捨在追蹤這個案件我就問你嘛2018年提起你們這件事到後來被起訴你們國發會幹了什麼派了董事去幹了什麼"},{"start":12847.171,"end":12851.658,"text":"我剛才已經說了阿就是說通訪中心有你什麼都沒有做阿我們跟著起訴阿對嘛那你是等到什麼東窗事發股票快要變幣子才被求償"},{"start":12860.171,"end":12885.318,"text":"你要跟誰求償啊?你可以求償到多少錢啊?我現在問你的是2018年國發會說要處理,處理了什麼?處理到最後?處理到最後?起訴了?人跑了?跑投保中心去求償然後你們國發會有臉跟媒體說我們比較倒霉是誰倒霉?是國發會倒霉還是納稅人倒霉?誰倒霉?"},{"start":12890.799,"end":12912.042,"text":"報告委員,所有投資基金的話我們要用總額來看單一案件的話當然我先一件一件算啦這個案子吸台灣投資人的錢洗到中國去被汙走你們到今天還不肯承認錯誤還在說比較倒霉這件事情有任何人被追究責任嗎?"},{"start":12914.209,"end":12915.87,"text":"可以消極怠惰到這種程度嗎?"},{"start":12944.989,"end":12969.839,"text":"你把刑事犯罪的刑事責任跟國發基金那個時候消極不作為可以火我一盤喔可以火我一盤喔這不就是當初你們決策錯誤嗎決策錯誤提醒你們叫你們要處理蘇萊索站在旁邊你帶著官員說國發會一定會處理我今天就問一個簡單的問題嘛你處理了什麼"},{"start":12973.403,"end":12996.948,"text":"還有臉跟納稅人講我們倒霉誰倒霉阿我要說錯嗎整體的國發基金每一年事實上他的獲益是兩百多億我們一件一件來看啦再下一個聯合再生如出一策當初新日光這三家合併前三年虧了一百多億"},{"start":13001.516,"end":13025.997,"text":"那個時候不是我質疑而已喔民進黨的立委民進黨自己的立委都在質疑為什麼要投資這三家虧損這麼嚴重的公司我們的國發基金成為紓困基金嗎為什麼要借錢給他們那個時候國發會的副主委鄭正茂說因為他們要轉型因為他們要升級然後呢"},{"start":13029.883,"end":13041.786,"text":"議員問他轉型升級完了以後認為他明年就會獲利對於投資聯合再生這家公司國發會今天的立場認為當初的決策是不是正確的?我就直接問啦聯合再生這個投資案是誰介紹的?"},{"start":13058.976,"end":13068.403,"text":"結果政政罵信誓旦旦的說投資完了以後一樣丟了快30億進去所謂的升級所謂的轉型國發基金錢進去了投資人跟著進去了聯合再生2019年開始到現在虧損了快140億"},{"start":13088.154,"end":13107.555,"text":"你認不認識聯合再生的董事長?我不太認識他你有沒有跟他吃過飯?我也不記得聯合再生一模一樣審議的過程這些委員不是請假就是代理先設建造化把早就決定了"},{"start":13109.122,"end":13118.324,"text":"當初牽線的人叫做張景生從上而下的決定然後你說你忘記了來我具體的問你誰決定投資的一切經過審查結果審查委員會不是請假就是代理然後聯合戰聲拿到了我們納粹人的紓困基金"},{"start":13137.137,"end":13154.381,"text":"繼續虧2020年當參議院綠門後援會的總會長我接下來就問你你2020年3月18日跟聯合再生的董事長、跟張景生、跟潘孟安在請客樓談了什麼根本不曉得記得這件事情"},{"start":13155.831,"end":13174.896,"text":"有沒有我不知道你回去查我們下次質詢的時候繼續說下去你查你的歷歷啊你有沒有吃過這頓飯你在國會可以回答說你不知道我當然不知道啊你五年前的事情哪一天的事情發生什麼事情你怎麼會記得這種官商憤記這種官商憤記砍納稅人之慨去建立自己的政商關係沒有這回事啦"},{"start":13183.063,"end":13202.87,"text":"這不是鐵砧砧的例子嗎?這不是例子啊 那就檢調來查才是最真實的啊所以嘛 在你們民進黨官員的眼裡只要檢調沒有來查就代表沒有事喔納稅人的錢是這樣給你們花的喔檢調才是最客觀 如果真的有不法證據的話 我們都會配合啊"},{"start":13203.763,"end":13204.463,"text":"委員可以去去這個剪掉"},{"start":13224.47,"end":13237.479,"text":"對嘛!所以我就問你嘛!你們所謂的青年情障礙鄉土,你們的廉政倫理規範只有一條事啊!檢調沒有來查就沒有事!是這樣嗎?把標準講清楚嘛!對啊!有些客觀的證據不會提出來了!"},{"start":13242.022,"end":13242.582,"text":"你連這個問題都不敢回答喔?好"},{"start":13270.196,"end":13270.517,"text":"好 來我們時間到齁謝謝"},{"start":13290.12,"end":13303.308,"text":"因為經濟委員會我們一般都會針對委員所發言請官員來回答那剛剛因為主委你又講到兩個事件那麼本席在這邊主席才特別提示"},{"start":13304.349,"end":13328.785,"text":"我們的國發基金的投資不是以總額來看這一點要很注意因為每一個案件委員提出必須要想死去說明他絕對不是以總投資額的多少去決定這一點我請主委你要細心回答接下來我們請王洪威委員王洪威委員不在場我們請李博義委員請做詢問"},{"start":13347.722,"end":13364.806,"text":"主席抱歉第一次在經濟委員會質詢來我請拱主委好我們再請公主委麥克風幫我收起來不用這麼大聲主委先請你冷靜一下很好很好"},{"start":13365.663,"end":13376.418,"text":"那個國發會業務報告裡面其實牽涉到很多我們地方的發展那確實是需要我們的大腦來協助我們地方的發展那"},{"start":13377.748,"end":13406.487,"text":"其實很多人不知道為什麼台積電會在哪一個縣市設廠比如說台積電為什麼會選當初為什麼選擇台中那或者是台積電後來為什麼放棄桃園而選擇可能其他的地方還有我來自高雄台積電為什麼選擇高雄來設二奈米廠的這些其實需要除了地方政府很大力的讓台積電看到我們行政效率之外我們更需要國發會這邊"},{"start":13408.569,"end":13425.963,"text":"讓所有的這些交通建設等等的都可以落實高雄市政府做了什麼事情讓台積電把高雄設為跟台南可以連結的這一個主要的基地也就是2奈米的產成基地他預計在2025年就會投入量產"},{"start":13426.764,"end":13442.313,"text":"那台積電旁邊還有橋頭科學園區過去在高雄縣市還沒有合併之前這個原本號稱是新市政那經過民進黨政府這8年來的努力跟地方政府的合作那我們促成了橋頭科學園區之外"},{"start":13442.893,"end":13469.299,"text":"也把這個中油的廠區過去污染的廠區用縮短成3年的時間來整治變成台積電願意來高雄設廠設2奈米廠最重要的原因那主委我們也知道上個禮拜台積電雄本廠的設立造成日本的大轟動其實日本政府做了什麼事情日本政府第一個廠就補助台積電1000億的台幣"},{"start":13472.708,"end":13499.384,"text":"不含這些公共設施不含包含熊本的這些水不含熊本的這些交通設施不含熊本的這些相關周邊的設施日本政府也投入了幾百億台幣在做這個迎接台積電來它可以帶來很多的就業機會那我們要做什麼?高雄需要什麼?注意我在3月1日跟陳建元院長質詢的時候提出了幾點都是有關交通部的預算包含"},{"start":13501.981,"end":13530.116,"text":"結運指線非常重要的一條貫穿台積電園區以及橋頭科學園區的這一條結運指線目前交通部的可行性評估在今年的6月會出來那我們另外還提出了南梓到這個南岡山的鐵路立體化從左營到南岡山的鐵路立體化目前可行性評估也在交通部1600萬預計今年可行性評估也要出來那"},{"start":13530.876,"end":13558.795,"text":"很重要的一點我剛提到的也就是為什麼台積電把高雄設為跟台南的這個高科技產業園區可以互相互補的一個重要的布局也就是男子交流道增設閘道這一條路為什麼需要目前台南到高雄的國道1號擁擠的程度過去從台南到高雄可能開高速公路一般時間40分鐘現在要增加最少要一個小時"},{"start":13559.716,"end":13584.116,"text":"那所以未來再加上台積電的布局相關的這些車流會增加到無法負荷我們急需要這個交流道的引道但這需要國發會這邊的審核請問主委這一條南梓交流道的引道要進入台積電園區目前審核的進度是怎樣請主委說大概意見大概差不多收集完畢了所以我們盡快的會和"},{"start":13592.18,"end":13604.166,"text":"主委,其實需要配合到台積電跟喬科他未來量產的時程我們不要到他量產之後大量的工程師、大量的工程車進駐之後"},{"start":13605.306,"end":13605.546,"text":"主委,是不是?"},{"start":13630.674,"end":13630.694,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":13661.104,"end":13661.424,"text":"陳冠廷主委"},{"start":13681.998,"end":13697.946,"text":"地方創生是平衡城鄉差距明明南北失衡不僅是南北失衡東西失衡等等跟離島失衡都算均衡台灣的一個重要政策我想大家應該都很熟悉政府這幾年來也是投入很多資源不遺餘履歷"},{"start":13699.046,"end":13724.3,"text":"目前我們發覺到有一個平等的問題就是說我們國發會針對地方縣市的提案基本上還是採取齊頭式競爭也就是說像我們嘉義縣可能要跟桃園跟台中這種都會地區的這些直轄市一起競爭那不同的縣市它的財政能力還有人力的多寡都是對一些我們的提案都會有產生影響"},{"start":13725.18,"end":13740.314,"text":"所以我就想說地方創生在平衡各個區域的發展可是這一個情況跟地方創生的原則是有背離的那目前國發會有沒有朝著實質的平等那分配正義的方向修正"},{"start":13741.038,"end":13741.058,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":13756.298,"end":13783.05,"text":"會比這個都會要多所以他不是齊頭式的說每一個縣市分配額度多少不是這樣是看你有地方他年輕人或者是地方創生團隊他準備好了那他有什麼樣的想法那提出來不管是透過公所也好或是直接跟我們多元提案也好只要我們認為這個是符合我們的原則比如說他有在地的DNA他長期蹲點在地方然後他有共好"},{"start":13783.59,"end":13785.832,"text":"最後我的意思應該是很清晰很明確的說"},{"start":13798.786,"end":13798.806,"text":"對,我認為"},{"start":13824.525,"end":13846.926,"text":"對對對我們是希望說我要還是再強調就是說這是很多縣府的同仁也有跟我們提過有類似這樣子的問題所在那我們是希望說國發會可以本著就是均衡台灣的一個立場來去我們來協助那剛才我們提到的這個之外我還是想要請教相關的法規地方創生是沒有相關的母法嗎"},{"start":13848.138,"end":13868.88,"text":"地方創生它是一個方案 它是戰略計畫成績的一個政策形式 那我們希望是說是不是國發會未來能夠扮演更主動積極的角色 來去引導地方創生戰略方案 就是說甚至是在法律上面的成績的母法的這個部分 是不是可以主動來去扮演更積極的角色"},{"start":13869.964,"end":13891.151,"text":"目前我們是用方案來推動那現在看到的狀況還是有他的階段性的成效那如果下一步真的需要一個法律來做支撐的話那就是我們這個地方創生3.0他會牽涉到就是地方創生團隊他在實施他的這個地方創生的相關活動的時候"},{"start":13891.971,"end":13911.203,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":13911.443,"end":13911.543,"text":"謝謝主委"},{"start":13940.543,"end":13942.384,"text":"王美惠 蘇清泉 何欣淳"},{"start":13959.332,"end":13960.954,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":13978.8,"end":14004.092,"text":"好 那麼我們登記發言的除不在現場之外其餘都已經發言完畢 詢答結束我們有委員 邱志明委員 王洪威委員所提訴命質詢列入紀錄刊登公報 那訴命質詢以及為其答覆的部分請相關單位一週以內 訴念答覆並複製本會本日議程進行到此 明天星期四我們繼續開會 現在休息 謝謝所有的議事組人員 謝謝"},{"start":14020.988,"end":14022.53,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}