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局長"},{"start":1882.335,"end":1903.182,"text":"觀光署周永輝署長、航港局葉協榮局長、民用航空局何淑品局長、中央氣象署陳佳品署長、台鐵公司杜威董事長、港務公司李協義董事長、"},{"start":1917.366,"end":1944.755,"text":"中華郵政吳洪某董事長桃園機場公司楊維福董事長高鐵公司江耀宗董事長中華航空謝士謙董事長陽明海運鄭振茂董事長中華電信郭水義董事長警政署航空警察局邱文亮局長"},{"start":1947.101,"end":1976.104,"text":"台北市政府捷運工程局陳景慈副局長新北市捷運工程局鄭志敏副局長桃園市政府捷運局廖振遠副局長台中市公共運輸及捷運工程處張應當處長台南市交通局熊萬寅副局長台南市捷運工程處李蔣蕙處長高雄市政府捷運工程局吳家昌副局長"},{"start":1979.465,"end":1998.93,"text":"本次會議進行交通部業務報告現在請王部長報告主席、各位委員、各位女士先生以下就交通部的業務進行報告"},{"start":2001.021,"end":2012.896,"text":"在我這次報告是主要報告因為今年是剛開始我來報告1、2年的重要成果以及今年要做的一些事情首先報告1、2年重要的成果"},{"start":2014.031,"end":2031.343,"text":"在1月2年裡面我們有完成很多相關的一個計畫第一個是國道2號甲線這個在去年1月9號通車國道4號台中環線這是在1月16然後另外國道10號的燕巢交流道這是在去年4月28完成"},{"start":2034.585,"end":2060.723,"text":"另外就是國道3號跟66線的這個北路工程在6月30那我們現在很重要一點就是說過去快速道路跟國道沒有銜接的系統交流道那我們這幾年都是在持續的來加強另外有一些服務因為人口發展這個服務不到的地方比如說國道1號的矽子交流道增設南路閘道這個也在去年10月30號完成"},{"start":2062.264,"end":2086.762,"text":"那另外在省道部分在台南很重要的急雪溪橋的改建在去年7月6號那另外台65線這個福州地區的北上南下的閘道在去年8月29號完成那另外就是台74的大甲霧峰偵測閘道這個就是一般的講的這個草湖交流道這也在去年的10月底完成"},{"start":2087.711,"end":2101.377,"text":"那另外就是花東的這個委員關心的花東縱谷的景觀大道我們先完成第一段就是臺東瑞豐道永安段在去年11月17日完成那接下來報告這個鐵道建設的部分"},{"start":2103.239,"end":2124.27,"text":"華東的這個雙軌工程在這個南平到萬隆的雙軌化那這個部分在去年的6月27已經完成了那另外機場捷運營業以後他現在要延伸到中壢那其中的A22站這個老街西站那在去年7月31號完成那另外英哥他的"},{"start":2125.891,"end":2128.457,"text":"我們在去年9月27日完成這個電蝴蝶的啟用"},{"start":2134.192,"end":2153.79,"text":"那另外在五分車,台糖嘉義蒜頭糖廠的五分車到故宮南苑那現在大家如果搭高鐵到嘉義站直接出來以後就可以搭五分車,直接可以到故宮南苑那另外台鐵新過的通勤電雷車520輛也都投入營運了"},{"start":2158.406,"end":2172.395,"text":"另外就是在去年最重要一件事情就是台鐵公司化經過非常溝通然後也勞資協商的一個過程在去年的1月1號完成台鐵公司化"},{"start":2173.297,"end":2191.263,"text":"接下來報告機場的建設松山跟台中高雄這個是我們也完成2040年的整體規劃那行政院合併我們按照整體規劃的內容持續來加強建設那另外就是在去年的午夜我們南竿機場"},{"start":2192.703,"end":2212.571,"text":"這一個整修跟擴建工程完成那臺中機場很重要它的整個國內航線的這個整建還有臺東機場空撤的改善工程也在去年都完成了那另外桃園機場最重要的建設就是三航廈三跑道那其中涉及到航空城的這個徵收的一個計畫"},{"start":2215.132,"end":2226.705,"text":"我們在去年已經優先取得優先搬遷區的全部土地總共71%的搬遷已經都完成了"},{"start":2228.323,"end":2240.33,"text":"另外就是自由貿易港區的部分在第一期完成以後在去年6月我們增加了自動加值廠房總共3.4萬坪那這個在7月12日已經啟用它可以帶動大概5000個就業機會然後每年1.5兆的貿易額"},{"start":2250.339,"end":2275.655,"text":"港屋建設部分包括第7後櫃中心第一期在去年5月然後在去年3月就高雄禮安大樓也完工那另外就是禮安的風電我們現在的配合禮安風電的一個整個這個能源轉型的政策在禮安風電台中是一個很重要的一個基地那我們現在包括"},{"start":2276.696,"end":2303.403,"text":"在去年1月還有包括臺中港3738號碼頭還有高雄港的A6碼頭這個後方的這個填住工程都已經完成了那另外很重要臺中港南填方的開工它未來是一個所謂移動風機的一個基地這個也開始開工了那另外基隆港的部分基隆港部分是有一個很完整的一個計畫"},{"start":2304.505,"end":2327.364,"text":"那在去年底金融港的西遷工程的這個組建物都完成今年3月會全部都這個移過去那另外就是除了他的港戶設施這個包括西岸跟東岸的這些未來就是這個郵輪的這個基地這個都這個理應中心都已經完成了那另外在"},{"start":2329.794,"end":2352.893,"text":"國際觀光課的一個部分在觀光署在5月推動加速擴大吸引國際課的這個方案那在去年這個總共有648萬人次這已經比我們600萬人次已經比他多48萬那另外就是未來進一步的讓我們的這個觀光能夠在國際有競爭力"},{"start":2357.25,"end":2367.403,"text":"觀光署執行觀光前瞻計劃,這是110-114的計劃,包括打造東北角、北關、日月潭、阿里山、東海岸、澎湖6個國際魅力景區,總共24處亮點工程。"},{"start":2373.871,"end":2391.926,"text":"總共已經現在完成12項的這個亮點工程那另外就是油輪的部分我們在去年總共有327艘次有大概55萬人已經搭了油輪所以他的付出已經大概一半已經付出到一半那另外就是公共運輸的這個部分"},{"start":2394.281,"end":2403.914,"text":"TPAS通行業票在去年總共17個縣市實施那到去年12月底總共有387萬"},{"start":2406.941,"end":2431.572,"text":"9000人就是購買月票總共2.79億人這個使用那現在到2月底事實上已經3.65億所以那成長的非常的快那我們公共運輸的使用量增加15.05%那另外就是所謂偏鄉正義的部分新五八十是我們公務局很重要的一個政策到去年底總共173個鄉鎮436條路線"},{"start":2436.716,"end":2443.567,"text":"這個偏鄉的公共運輸率已經到91.97%另外在偏鄉正義有關離島的海運部分"},{"start":2444.941,"end":2470.922,"text":"我們新台馬輪這個是在4月16日投入這個營運另外澎湖輪在9月6日去年9月6日就是也投入這個營運那在智慧運輸的部分我們從109到112持續補助各縣市政府辦理這個車聯網的相關的一個計畫那在去年6月這個"},{"start":2473.154,"end":2478.904,"text":"2023的OMI-L Taipei Fly Fest這次在我們淡海來舉辦未來它會變成一個車輪碗的一個測試基地"},{"start":2483.169,"end":2503.545,"text":"另外在氣象服務的部分在中央氣象局在112年去年完成花蓮氣象雷達升級工程也整合7座氣象雷達偵測網另外他因為在海邊的這些比較危險所以25站的沿岸的自動氣象站這個完成"},{"start":2504.286,"end":2530.822,"text":"那另外就是很多爬山旅遊在山區的部分也需要去鄉的服務所以他們也做了山區暴雨的這個溪水暴漲警示系統這個現在有10個縣市19個溪流區在進行那我們郵政物流中心資訊中心在去年11月30號已經完工那大部分大家是最關心的"},{"start":2532.952,"end":2558.367,"text":"我們在道路交通安全基本法在今年1月1日很謝謝立法院交通委員的支持在1月1日已經實施了在今年1月25日第一次的中央道路交通安全匯報由陳院長來主持另外就是我們當天也通過國家道路交通安全綱要計劃"},{"start":2560.008,"end":2576.224,"text":"那這個計畫後續就是部會的這個年度的一些推動計畫以及這個縣市的一些執行計畫他們就按照這樣來進行那另外接下來包括這個"},{"start":2578.571,"end":2587.816,"text":"以下報告一三年的重要工作就今年的大概有哪些還會完工的第一個是國道7號偵測去市縣的這個工程這5月會通車那國道3號接66這個在這個10月那另外"},{"start":2597.581,"end":2614.335,"text":"東草屯休息站在這個7月會完工啟用那省道的部分包括臺二線宜蘭頭城這個透關就是大溪橋的這個改建這個在5月那另外就是花東縱谷的花蓮大禹到玉里的透關在6月完成"},{"start":2615.055,"end":2638.268,"text":"另外就是臺15縣跟臺4縣這個配合未來我們第三航道他會改縣這個在今年的10月臺15縣會做一個改道另外臺18的金輝橋這個是11月會來完成另外臺9縣花東縱谷景觀大道的護里到護南路段這也在12月會完工"},{"start":2639.787,"end":2656.049,"text":"議員會議員"},{"start":2656.149,"end":2680.643,"text":"今年第二季會完工那另外鐵路地下化的偵測後面臨時戰這在今年年底也會完工那有關於台鐵安全改革的部分這也是我們成立公司裡面最重要一件事情那安全委員會這個我們現在已經提了五年一起的安全提升計畫那也把整個安全的這個制度建立在這個組織成立安全管理的"},{"start":2681.323,"end":2681.683,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2698.591,"end":2715.097,"text":"今年也包括3號、海豐號這個完工來使用有關於機場的建設第三航廈朝115年第三跑道119年我們持續在進行另外就是"},{"start":2717.52,"end":2744.213,"text":"台灣機場的第2自由貿易港區總共73.69公頃這我們已經在規劃建設就未來在下一期的這個自由貿易港讓它能夠擴大那另外在港戶建設的部分在今年7月高雄港7候櫃會完全完工然後在今年的3月澎湖馬工的這個一號碼頭研建那未來讓這個15噸的郵輪也可以停靠"},{"start":2745.578,"end":2759.37,"text":"那另外就是風機基地在高雄港A6的這個部分113年會完成A6碼頭那另外台中港的3738跟南天荒就是持續進行在114年會完工"},{"start":2761.107,"end":2784.568,"text":"另外在觀光行銷部分今年會增設印度、印尼、法國的觀光服務處來擴大我們海外行銷的據點那另外就是觀光的建設包括重要觀光景區的中長城計畫還包括體驗觀光這個有升級計畫這個也持續在進行那今年就是以恢復到疫情前的1200萬為我們的目標"},{"start":2787.569,"end":2804.384,"text":"另外就是我們的國家智慧景區今年會成立智慧景區專案辦公室PMO來由5個公館處來做起另外我們為了福島產業在13年也要福島7家觀光旅館起的環保"},{"start":2805.225,"end":2806.206,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":2830.452,"end":2843.867,"text":"離島的部分除了剛才談到兩艘船完成以後在今年7月白沙之星2號也會完工然後這個蘭嶼的跑道工程在6月也會完工"},{"start":2844.605,"end":2866.953,"text":"那智慧運輸的部分主要是針對智慧運輸系統而發展的建設配合5G的發展來提升我們運輸管理的效率那氣象裡面就包括我們第6代高速電腦的啟用還有現在也積極投入AI在氣象的這個業務那郵政物流園區這個北台灣物流中心"},{"start":2867.853,"end":2895.062,"text":"就是整體會在今年完全竣工那道安的部分今年我們以死亡下降5%新人死亡下降7、8為我們的目標那透過道路交通安全基本法以及我們包括永續提升新人安全的計畫的這個400億我們期待就是整個道安道安在今年已經有下降我們持續有更有一個大幅的一個下降"},{"start":2895.885,"end":2924.566,"text":"我想以下我就很簡單的報告,業務報告那進行各位委員指教,謝謝現在補充介紹在場委員陳樹葉委員林佩翔委員林國成委員現在進行選答先進行宣告以下事項"},{"start":2926.184,"end":2951.316,"text":"發言時間因為是交通部首次業務報告而讓各位委員有更充足的發言時間初期委員8加2分鐘列席委員6分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各委員如有提案請於10點前提出以便醫師人員會診"},{"start":2954.353,"end":2964.71,"text":"暫定10點30分休息10分鐘中午原則上不休息現在請登記第一位委員來發言請陳書業委員來代為主持"},{"start":2980.549,"end":2999.635,"text":"現在請登記第一位發言李坤澤召委發言謝謝陳書瑞委員請王國材部長、機場公司楊董事長楊董事長還有高鐵公司江耀忠董事長請江董事長"},{"start":3010.203,"end":3038.455,"text":"公路總局陳文瑞局長請陳文瑞局長好,再會長王部長民眾出國是基於商務考察、開會工作或者是旅遊探親等等都必須在好幾個月前做好相關的規劃要出國不是要去高雄看黃色小鴨"},{"start":3039.875,"end":3063.999,"text":"不是要去看五月天的演唱會都要好幾個月前就要做好相關的交通規劃因為還有轉機等等相關的重要因素去必須做考量但是我們看到桃園機場啊攔跑道的稅休造成大量旅客的權益受損我們看到旅客啊在機場徬徨無助憤怒挫惡"},{"start":3070.239,"end":3099.347,"text":"整個交通部、整個機場公司螺絲吊滿地那我們看到桃園機場的南跑道稅修的相關流程在去年11月開始規劃12月、今年1月、2月都有相關的聯席的這種邀集討論對象包括航空公司、代表聯席會相關的業者飛航管制單位、地勤業者等等"},{"start":3100.881,"end":3109.721,"text":"直到機場公司直到今年的2月21日才發布飛航的公告3月3日開始稅休"},{"start":3110.816,"end":3139.673,"text":"中間僅僅間隔了11天來請你們簡單說明一下我先簡單說明第一個這個跑道的稅休是航岸的一部分那的確台灣機場24小時營運封閉一個跑道的確影響很大那的確盧委員所說的他雖然在從去年就開始討論這個事情但是我覺得在2月21要發布非常公告"},{"start":3141.432,"end":3163.351,"text":"是不是包括航空公司還有民眾了解這個事情這個事的確有這裡面當然有很大的行政的瑕疵對於旅客的權利踐踏到這種程度全國民眾都非常的不滿對政府、對交通部的威信造成很大的衝擊那我先請教你們認為原因是什麼"},{"start":3166.465,"end":3181.351,"text":"第一個當然就是我們後來檢討就是發布非常公告應該在3個月前就發布然後你們只公布了11天那另外就是說在航管的部分就是說各國飛機到我們的飛揚情報區"},{"start":3182.671,"end":3183.372,"text":"部長有多少旅客受到影響?"},{"start":3211.991,"end":3212.651,"text":"那相關的旅客有沒有賠償的問題你們有做這樣的規劃嗎?是否賠償?"},{"start":3230.698,"end":3260.038,"text":"跟委員報告因為剛剛所提到的我們在規劃的過程是從去年11月就開始那這個討論呢其實是包含航空公司、航管等有關部門都大家一起來討論所以我們是在今年的1月下旬確定這個執行的日期是在3月份的第一個這個你們1月2月都有討論嘛然後到2月21才發布這個飛航的公告嘛"},{"start":3261.248,"end":3287.883,"text":"是跟委員報告我們的日期是會決定在先因為這樣的解釋民眾不會接受我認為部長跟桃居公司的董事長總經理應該在這裡公開的向所有的旅客跟國人公開的道歉來部長說明一下我真的對於3月3日當天造成這個民眾的不便我在這裡表示非常"},{"start":3290.083,"end":3314.01,"text":"抱歉我想說這部分3月3日發生以後我要請我們的次長進駐然後也做了標準作為程序的討論我想這一次事實上過去他都有稅休那的確是這次稅休的範圍比較廣所以時間比較長但是我覺得這個尤其現在已經恢復到全世界疫情後的恢復航班的情形我是覺得這個部分"},{"start":3315.09,"end":3343.798,"text":"已經有檢討過那我想我會請他們完全按照我們這個所檢討這個流程來處理部長我不客氣的講你督導不周我在這邊要更嚴厲的告訴機場公司的董事長跟總經理如果再有這種混亂的狀況你們兩個都必須要下台必須要負起相關的責任旅客的權利必須要用心去維護你們讓旅客在機場等待"},{"start":3345.066,"end":3346.327,"text":"接下來我要問高鐵公司"},{"start":3376.246,"end":3395.834,"text":"我們現在真的是在假日的時候一票難求尤其是以年假我們以2019跟2023的中秋的年假以它的平均日的運量來看2023比2019的中秋的日平均運量"},{"start":3397.247,"end":3414.619,"text":"每一天就大概多出2萬人左右 這個運量提升非常的大當然我們在2023的中秋及雙十年假 高鐵公司也全力要去做好運輸的工作我們有30組列車全部的出動 34組的列車全部出動"},{"start":3418.542,"end":3428.109,"text":"然後單日的班次也排到最高192班次但是部長跟董事長我們還是有旅客等車要等3個小時以上"},{"start":3429.832,"end":3455.765,"text":"這就是說我們相關的這些班次還必須要更有效的去做調整當然34組都已經動用全部都動用我們的新車12組要到2026的下半年才會到對不對董事長是的然後我們到2026車到要2027經過測試等等可能就要一年要到2027才能夠正式的營運"},{"start":3457.403,"end":3482.109,"text":"沒有錯那我們現在高鐵真的是一票難取尤其是假日的時候啦高鐵還沒有通車的時候我就在交通委員會那有多次你們都說高鐵公司要調整票價等等我就清楚的說明高鐵公司的問題是運量不是票價那現在運量逐漸的這樣的一個提升"},{"start":3483.157,"end":3491.352,"text":"那我先請教我們在之前有跟董事長跟總經理有討論我們高鐵的班次"},{"start":3492.659,"end":3516.073,"text":"在考量車輛的安全維修以及員工的工作權利等等是否還有再增加班次的這個空間尤其是7月7月馬上相關的假期就要到了來請董事長說明一下我們目前每週的班次是1060班那當然在3月份的"},{"start":3518.475,"end":3537.686,"text":"後兩個禮拜我們都有所謂應應短期的增班那到7月1號公司還會再檢討我們的場態的增班那以公司的這些運能來講我們是還有機會還可以增班還有機會大概能增加多少班"},{"start":3540.558,"end":3568.544,"text":"大約大約40班次好 董事長高鐵公司在運量的提升這方面有做出成績但是我還是認為增加班次是一個必然的趨勢但是一定要考量相關的車輛維護鐵道的保養以及相關員工的工時權利等等都要做好全部的一個規劃這個一定會這樣 謝謝好 那接下來"},{"start":3569.591,"end":3591.499,"text":"我要針對無照駕駛的部分來請教我們的部長部長我們交通部在駕駛人的這個教育跟監理方面的確是有做相關的一個規劃但是我們忽略了駕照有很多被吊銷、吊扣之後"},{"start":3592.93,"end":3612.905,"text":"沒有去考照、不願去考照、仍然無照駕駛這些有多少人呢?你知道嗎?有14萬人部長這5年來無照駕駛的累犯他的裁判的人數跟件數啊人數以今年來說以2023年去年來說啊達到14萬5318人"},{"start":3619.181,"end":3619.521,"text":"公務委員報告"},{"start":3648.43,"end":3669.931,"text":"因為無照駕駛我想我們大概可以分成三類第一類就是說比較年長的年長的就是說他有可能就是他可能因為之前也有就是說他可能沒辦法考上駕照那對於年長的需求的部分其實我們現在正在就是說在各村林裡坐這一個幸福巴士幸福小黃讓他們不用去騎車"},{"start":3672.173,"end":3698.192,"text":"談刑預約、用公車票價﹑可以達到計程車的服務這是一類第二類就是年幼18歲以下的18歲以下本來現在就是說依法令規定就是不能考駕照那如果說無照的部分的話其實這邊包括就是說列管以及就是講習其實講習的時候還要求就家長要共同來那賦予就是說家長也要這個督促這個年幼18歲以下的"},{"start":3698.812,"end":3717.294,"text":"第三類其實就是在這個18歲以上其實他是因為這個違規那重大的違規會被吊銷、吊扣、駕照那這個部分因為重大違規的處罰本來就應該就是說他有一個期間他比如說是3年、6年或是更長的你期間不能考照"},{"start":3718.094,"end":3743.648,"text":"這個部分的話我想在這一類的這個部分的話未來我們其實監理機關跟這個當地的警察機關我想在整個的一個這個名冊上面列管我們會跟因為這個本來這類的人就是處罰是不能上路的他在這個處罰吊銷吊扣期間是不能上路的那這個部分的話我想我們會跟這個警察機關共同就是說對於這類的人"},{"start":3745.149,"end":3745.71,"text":"現在請林國成委員發言"},{"start":3784.419,"end":3787.52,"text":"謝謝主席請我們部長請王部長另外一位早部長早我想剛才看到你的工作報告洋洋灑灑寫的八面玲瓏恰如無缺點但是事實上交通的問題缺點一大堆第一"},{"start":3814.161,"end":3828.312,"text":"我們就來談一談我們在制定法令的時候祭典政策那個是你決策的或者底下提出來的"},{"start":3829.861,"end":3835.723,"text":"部長拜託拜託我問你是底下決策或者你決策你回答我就好了最後是我決策是你決策其實說實在的部長"},{"start":3855.033,"end":3880.672,"text":"違規祭典這個政策當然有正反雙方也是俗語講的這個父子祈禮啦怎麼做都不對但是這裡啊改任何政策的時候要越改越好不是越改越錯誤所以啊我的認為啊這整個事件當然我也知道前兩天"},{"start":3882.11,"end":3898.44,"text":"你們的司長還有召開一個用路人跟使用人包括駕駛人等等這些去開一個針對這個亡羊補腦的一個政策去做協調溝通但是我要提供給部長的"},{"start":3899.434,"end":3925.396,"text":"就是你們這個政策制定的時候就是事前不溝通規劃不前面上路不宣導駕駛人不滿意行人不買單基層執行人員是不堪祈禱所以部長我本席的這種斷言你認為有沒有理由"},{"start":3926.867,"end":3943.742,"text":"的確我剛才講一半就去年這時候的新任第一讓我們覺得說從執法是一個短期的教育所以當時的確有這樣的氛圍所以我們也以此作為一個比較嚴格的政策雖然剛剛我有沒有在去年的這個政策事實上有它的效果"},{"start":3944.463,"end":3962.752,"text":"道安的數據都這個死亡都下降很多那的確在道路的條件還沒做好以前有很多比如說違違規的包括林庭等等的所以這個部分的確是你那個下降主要原因不是這個政策"},{"start":3963.752,"end":3990.377,"text":"下降主要原因有多重的原因會下降所以你不要把以為這個錯誤的政策你就把它當成是一個車後的下降其實這些臨庭、這些祭典根本不是降低所有車後主要原因所以啊我坦白跟你講針對這個針對這個祭典政策我坦白講"},{"start":3991.457,"end":4018.92,"text":"未謀其利先受其害你知道明艷是其嗎所以部長沒有關係你們現在已經在做亡羊補牢的動作但是我還是希望你們制定政策的時候千萬不要駕駛人跟行人去行人充體家具的這個政策這基本上不是老百姓要的東西嘛所以"},{"start":4020.644,"end":4044.026,"text":"我講實在的當然這有正反雙方當然要確保用路人那當然審視這個駕駛人但是這兩者之間你們在制定法令千萬不要制定下去又改就改這個政府威信會受損所以我還是要拜託我還是要拜託其實"},{"start":4045.367,"end":4063.515,"text":"我還是建議各地方政府他還沒有完善配套的東西千萬就不要貿然的實施所以亡羊補寮你們現在是有必要去做的所以這個祭典政策據說你們現在怎麼決定"},{"start":4065.026,"end":4094.506,"text":"我們現在就是違罪不祭典就1200塊以下我們就不祭典不能開放民眾檢舉另外有一個是進行舉花包括科技之外跟民眾這個檢舉的部分不祭典大概目前現在根本報告的確道安跟這個民怨中間要找一個平衡的很辛苦事實上比如說你現在簽一簽的賣員也有這個大家講說可能要3000元有的又太高等等的"},{"start":4095.126,"end":4124.669,"text":"有時候交通政策的確是很難找到平衡點的確我跟委包的確過去年這個決定我們當時是很急著要大量改善也的確沒有注意到剛才委員所提的這些環境的課題不是啊 這個部長當然啦 因為我不希望希望你們坐在辦公室去做任何政策違背民意違背製造民怨的東西啦這不管任何人執政另外"},{"start":4125.73,"end":4139.706,"text":"另外一回事但是老百姓他基本權利你說用路人的權利我基本上我是支持但是你不要忘了駕駛人的使用權利因為我們根本都沒有完善的規劃幾例"},{"start":4141.708,"end":4159.961,"text":"6都裡面紅線滿天灰你叫他怎麼不能臨庭呢尤其你要制定計程車司機我們台北市現在這個檢舉達人一大堆他有可能不要一個月有可能啊就是10天他就馬上達到12點"},{"start":4161.542,"end":4183.273,"text":"所以這點部長,你們現在既然在汪洋補牢,我希望做得透徹一點,不要造成民厭,你們就開始再做這些好不好我想這個社會的溝通,我想說我們現在是一個調整,雖然政策是改變,但是是一個調整到比較平衡的地方"},{"start":4184.233,"end":4186.316,"text":"部長還有跟你投訴一下有去參加你們協調會的人"},{"start":4199.972,"end":4216.522,"text":"我敬請你們師長在組織會議的時候還是要聆聽別人的意見不要自己先入為止你既然請他來就聽聽他們的意見再來做決定不要一意孤行 竭得官僚氣喜鼠祖這點我要鼓勵"},{"start":4218.143,"end":4218.483,"text":"我們說實在的"},{"start":4240.161,"end":4257.054,"text":"我們是來討論我們召集人所講的基礎是國際這種南機場修復老早就訂定的方法那請問一下你們不覺得你們協調溝通橫向聯繫是不足的這個就是啊"},{"start":4263.001,"end":4281.254,"text":"跟我剛剛跟你講的一樣我們交通部通通都是本位主義通通只要各自為政認為自己做的才是對這個是橫向聯繫不足嘛所以部長我要坦白跟你講你很認真做但是會咳嗽的人這樣扮我告訴你這個叫儀效國際"},{"start":4286.751,"end":4287.072,"text":"準備不足 因應時機"},{"start":4302.01,"end":4322.624,"text":"溝通失靈所以我要跟部長說這當然既然發生你如果已經搶修的所以我是覺得你們的因應真的失據嘛這老早要規劃的是你們修復的稅修的政策老早就要溝通的怎麼會發生這個事你剛才在說我剛才不是跟你說"},{"start":4326.026,"end":4353.675,"text":"這裡我有一個數據啦也就是影響很慘的是326班級的這裡面平均啊占14%啊30分占10%兩休息我告訴你人家都打亂人家來到台灣或者要出國的人回來你知道是什麼台灣政府都這樣不是說王國材不好而是台灣政府都這樣所以我希望"},{"start":4354.758,"end":4380.185,"text":"部長這個可能還是要加強一下最後最後我還是特別請那個觀光署其實蘇柳你拜訪我的時候說觀光做得很好我承認我承認但是我覺得有很多不好"},{"start":4382.819,"end":4407.053,"text":"我們國內的飯店的房價是多國外兩倍以上從三年前到現在成長百分之五十幾所以拜託我的主題你要發展觀光就是要有這種配套方式所以我要拜託"},{"start":4408.28,"end":4433.72,"text":"署長不是經費的問題做法的問題那飯店現在很簡單他都只有做禮拜六、禮拜天欸是南島最高的一枚一萬五千塊勒但是我到亞洲地區去啊我兩萬多我可以設五間你想一想你怎麼發展觀光所以拜託署長拜託部長我跟你講"},{"start":4435.421,"end":4435.501,"text":"我們來介紹,謝謝"},{"start":4460.834,"end":4465.316,"text":"林委員發言完畢。現在請廖先祥委員發言。好,謝謝趙委員。那一樣麻煩我們的部長。請王部長。部長今天一樣先來跟您討論行人的問題。"},{"start":4485.805,"end":4509.742,"text":"行人在我們的交通法規當中他大概是一個族群嘛齁行人的族群但是其實行人也是非常的多元那包括我們每一個位都是行人有我們一般的成年人那有引法族有主拐杖的有推輪椅的那有小朋友會亂跑的嘛對不對那相對起來我們的引法族走在我們的人行道的時候他相對走的比較慢一點嘛"},{"start":4510.583,"end":4529.948,"text":"那他可能被碰撞受傷的可能性也比較高一點相對起來是比較脆弱一點的那我們有沒有曾經考慮過在這個人行道規劃我們銀髮族的一個專區請我們的銀髮族走在特定的區域請他們不要走在其他的地方我們交通部有這樣子的考慮過嗎"},{"start":4531.848,"end":4554.634,"text":"我目前大概這樣第一個因為人行道是共用當然就是說第一點就是把實體人行道做出來所以我們現在有4年4百億的預算我們真的很歡迎各縣市來申請我們就趕快的補助但是我們現在對於比如說螢化族常出入的或學校的這附近這個有一個計畫專門在做這個方面比如說"},{"start":4559.436,"end":4584.997,"text":"我只是想問我們部長有沒有去思考過做區隔這件事情有一點困難因為人行道反正不管你的速度快慢都在那邊走嘛那當然過去我們討論到比如說腳踏車應該分離這個事但是一般來講是整體是公用公用嘛但是在比如說醫院老人家出公用然後畫出來甚至可能會有歧視的問題嘛"},{"start":4595.08,"end":4608.883,"text":"既然我們在人行道有不同的族群在上面使用我們不會要求不同的族群去使用不同的範圍大家都共用那為什麼在我們的道路的規劃上面使用有那麼多的近行機車"},{"start":4611.187,"end":4635.18,"text":"我剛剛委員報告這個問題我已經跟很多人都談過我們經營機車不是比如說歧視機車主或是對他不公平因為在過去的研究裡面當你車種分離的時候是比較安全的因為那剛剛講人行道的部分老人家跟小牌子分開走也比較安全你要不要讓老人家自己走一個通道人跟人之間的"},{"start":4636.254,"end":4655.725,"text":"﹗"},{"start":4655.905,"end":4681.075,"text":"如果機車開在外側、騎在外側﹖有很多的公車﹖像新北很多這種公車或是重車﹖這時候只要它超過每小時170輛﹖我們就認為它的內側應該開完給機車走﹖所以不限車道﹖對,我們也有這樣的一個權宜措施﹖並不是叫它完全是分隔﹖指引出來了嗎﹖已經給地方政府了﹖"},{"start":4682.415,"end":4694.947,"text":"就是當我們外側車道的車輛的使用大型車如果一小時170輛以上大型車包括公車或是這個貨車等等還要大型車喔大型對機車的這個比較嚴重是"},{"start":4697.95,"end":4714.058,"text":"因為我們的一直以來地方政府有時候在推動這個交通行情的時候包括機車行駛權益的時候常常會因為我們的道路交通安全規則嘛那第99條的規定那常常會不敢開放"},{"start":4715.217,"end":4731.67,"text":"我們交通部長期來應該也收到許多民間團體的陳情我們這部分有沒有經過有沒有這個做過討論要來把它做適度的放寬我一點都不是說機車你要我現在是從安全來看比如說包括他們在談的兩段式左轉"},{"start":4733.252,"end":4748.747,"text":"在過去研究是比較安全的可是當你這個我剛才談到的重車很多他要兩道式左轉在跑的過程中可能會跟重車有衝突的時候我們是覺得他就是直接左轉所以我意思是說機車我們並不是說完全的車種分離"},{"start":4750.208,"end":4770.473,"text":"但是要看哪一個比較安全所以我們也給地方政府一個指引就是說你去看如果真的是走這個開放機車走內線車道比較安全你就應該開放我們也給這樣的一個指引現在包括像新北啦那個很多很多已經這樣做了是好就是如果說地方政府認為開放內設車道比較安全的話"},{"start":4773.466,"end":4786.06,"text":"可以權宜措施為什麼是原則禁止、例外開放而不是原則開放、例外禁止因為危險禁止嘛對不對合理嘛但是你沒有辦法說他不安全的情況下"},{"start":4793.877,"end":4807.665,"text":"你的意思就是說機車行駛在不同車道它會不安全嗎?所以你去禁止它嗎?我們現在是原則禁止、例外開放嘛對不對?有沒有機會調整成原則開放、例外禁止?因爲你說安全嘛對不對?結果現在要你例外禁止的時候你又提不出理由啊"},{"start":4821.232,"end":4822.413,"text":"因為你們剛剛說機車行駛在這內車車道它是相對危險的啊 對不對"},{"start":4841.009,"end":4859.154,"text":"如果外面齁比如說外車沒有重車的時候我們是覺得車種分離是比較安全的是應該這樣你們認為車種分離那一樣啊那你就可以訂定你們的這個指導原則啊怎樣的情況下是危險的狀況啊我們建議地方政府在某種情況下進行機車啊"},{"start":4860.535,"end":4879.436,"text":"我們給他一個指引是這個重車的這個輛數那我們也給他一個彈性就是說他可以比如說重燃重車沒有到170輛他覺得這個整個路型來看這個就是把責任推給地方政府啊地方政府又要去扛這個責任那個亮爺我跟你報告啊比如說"},{"start":4880.497,"end":4903.413,"text":"每一個選舉的縣市長對於縣市的交通安全他有他想要做的事你知道嗎議員也一樣啊你一樣啊所以我們當然可以禁止啊我們依照標誌標籤的規則我們當然可以禁止啊你認為危險你禁止啊而且這樣齁那個如果我們不因地制宜齁那個type太多了我沒有說不能因地制宜啊我說你認為危險你可以禁止啊但為什麼不是原則開放"},{"start":4905.439,"end":4920.54,"text":"這是我們的政策是沿著你要去限制人民的自由你應該是要另外有絕對的理由你才能去禁止人民的這個通行的自由嘛對不對就是安全對啊所以我說你可以因為安全的理由地方政府去規劃進行機車啊"},{"start":4923.154,"end":4936.746,"text":"你政府不能無緣無故定在一個上位計畫就在怎樣的條件就要禁止應該是要說我們不能夠去限制他們的使用原則上但是如果說我們在規劃的時候認為這樣子危險現況是危險的我們可以來做調整阿"},{"start":4941.64,"end":4946.925,"text":"我們的政策的確是車種分離,現在的政策是這樣,車種分離就是沿著禁止例外開放那就是你們政策錯誤啊,造成還在交通事故零死亡"},{"start":4963.081,"end":4980.99,"text":"每年那麼多人計測在外面發生事故事如果你剛才談的這個政策一變的話能改善我也可以接受但是問題是大家分析不是這樣台北市做了那麼多的分析對不對好沒關係喔時間有限我們進行下一個議題喔"},{"start":4982.429,"end":5005.92,"text":"一樣是行人的權益我們在112年12月5號的時候有頒發剛剛部長有報告道路交通安全法對不對那道路安全法的第一條就很明確的寫以達道路交通事故臨死亡的願景那請教一下部長這個我們這個法頒布之後我們應該是很認真在推動"},{"start":5006.9,"end":5035.055,"text":"那禮拜一我們召開了一個說明會交通違罪不計點且民眾不得計點不得舉發這件事情也是我們道路交通安全法推行的一部分嗎你認為剛剛我們說明會這樣子的一個方向對於我們邁向臨死亡這件事情是有幫助的嗎這個是一個暫時的一個權益措施就是說我道路交通的環境還沒有整人命是有暫時的措施嗎"},{"start":5036.26,"end":5053.368,"text":"你可以說你先去死一死改天再回來嗎可是那個你看到最近剛才包括首爾德在看就是說包括民營院他沒辦法停車造成了祭典人命跟這些東西比較起來孰輕孰重應該很明顯不用去比較吧"},{"start":5055.72,"end":5077.591,"text":"其實現在在交通檢舉的項目已經大幅的限縮一般的紅黃線沒辦法檢舉都是重大的違規才能夠檢舉的所以一般我們職業駕駛遇到的問題其實現在已經不太容易遇到了民眾沒辦法檢舉了嘛那現在會遇到的問題是什麼你停在人行道上面民眾也沒辦法檢舉啊對不對我其他真的不在乎啦你在馬路上有一些行為有時候大家在"},{"start":5079.096,"end":5080.557,"text":"邀請交通部長王國材列席報告業務概況．"},{"start":5103.168,"end":5103.608,"text":"廖委員發言完畢現在請黃建豪委員發言"},{"start":5133.571,"end":5141.036,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉我們事先請部長跟中華電信請王部長還有請中華電信董事長"},{"start":5144.583,"end":5169.24,"text":"委員好我想啊臺灣的這個詐騙問題非常非常的嚴重那我想政府也多次的講說我們要來打擊詐騙但是本席今天質詢的時候要指出一件事情包含稍早的時候我們有開一個記者會中華電信會不會成為這個詐騙的共犯或者是我當然你知道你沒有翻譯啦但是會被這個詐騙集團來利用"},{"start":5172.128,"end":5190.212,"text":"我們講個案子 2021年2月28號的時候有一間這個魔方移動股份有限公司NCC就已經廢止了他所謂的第二類電信事業的全部業務這個時間點是2021年2月8號他就被廢止了但是如果你現在上網搜尋這個魔方移動魔方電信因為這間公司他設置在台中"},{"start":5202.253,"end":5216.931,"text":"我們上網看他的這個網站裡面還有所謂的行動轉售跟加持服務的營業規章他的合作電信業者很擺明的寫的就是寫的中華電信那中華電信裡面這個部分魔方運動的合約裡面也提到"},{"start":5218.424,"end":5232.814,"text":"他的規章裡面他的業務合作的範圍合作的公司就是向中華電信來承租他的行動網路業務經營那租用他的門號跟服務那再向用戶來提供行動轉售跟相關的加值服務簡單來講"},{"start":5235.642,"end":5254.055,"text":"這間魔方移動他是把他的所謂的這個業務範圍建立在中華電信的業務上面然後提供給所謂的詐騙集團提供給很多的使用者來使用他在販賣他的這個門號的時候他會強調保證是全新號碼吃到飽無限制流量"},{"start":5254.975,"end":5280.891,"text":"安全無虞吃到飽跟號碼可以完全的分開追蹤不易號碼保證絕不輪轉兩個月內可以無限的收發驗證碼那獨立的海外系統防止駭客入侵提供三組號碼可以一直來收發簡訊APP所以我常常想包含我自己在內我們常常覺得說為什麼會常常收到什麼標股的簡訊常常收到很多投資的簡訊常常很多的我們的民眾受害者被詐騙集團的欺騙原來"},{"start":5282.259,"end":5289.35,"text":"找到原因了就是因為有很多所謂的二類的業者他是在跟中華電信來使用相關的服務而且"},{"start":5290.376,"end":5317.628,"text":"最嚴重是什麼我要講的是說當然如果今天是合法的商業行為我們沒辦法智慧但是今天提到了這個像剛剛提到這個魔方電信魔方移動公司他在2021年他就早就被NCC廢止的相關的業務了但是他卻還能夠持續的來跟中華電信來合作那包含去年減掉的偵辦還有今年齁今年2024年1月的時候雲林地檢署的起訴文件也都提到"},{"start":5318.717,"end":5347.463,"text":"我發現他是向這個中華電信來申請企業門號跟賣藥門號提供給這個上海族裔公司來使用那當然這過程很複雜但總之就是讓這個上海族裔公司再把這個門號提供給詐騙集團詐騙集團再來詐騙我們台灣的民眾到了今年都還有這樣的事情當然去年還有另外一間叫做這個海峽電信公司也是用同樣的手段來做這件事情所以今天要問的是我想問中華電信還有問我們部長"},{"start":5348.803,"end":5363.288,"text":"如果未來還有相關的業務中華電信要不要負連帶賠償責任以及中華電信你們有沒有去清查過在這個二類電信終止之後有多少公司到現在還跟中華電信有合作關係"},{"start":5365.991,"end":5383.968,"text":"報告委員,有關中華電信跟MVNO業者相關的合作規範都是依照通常會的規範來辦理陳路委員剛才提到前年2021年之後電信法轉軌到電信管理法"},{"start":5384.528,"end":5411.546,"text":"那麼相關的業者在申請轉軌過程當中繼續在向這個通傳會在申請這個執照當中那麼我們目前這個合作的範圍呢並沒有收到任何這個各自外洩的議題那麼剛才委員所提到的這個相關的內容呢據我們目前的了解是並不是中華電信或者是魔方這個銷售出去的"},{"start":5411.96,"end":5426.833,"text":"那相關的細節內容我們﹖你說不是模範移動消息﹖但我也是檢察官這不是我講的這是榆林地檢署2024年也就是今年現在是3月嘛今年1月的時候榆林地檢署的起訴文件他就提到"},{"start":5428.034,"end":5454.677,"text":"檢察官偵辦的這個魔方移動他就是向中華電信申請基業門號當然他最後賣出去他不是用魔方移動來賣他是就轉給所謂台灣左翼跟上海左翼來賣給這個詐騙集團當然導致了詐騙行為這個偵辦過程是因為去查這個電信門號才發現了這一層關係所以當然中華電信沒有直接賣給詐騙集團我知道"},{"start":5455.612,"end":5480.585,"text":"中華電信賣個魔方移動魔方移動再賣個臺灣卓一臺灣卓一再賣個上海卓一上海卓一再賣個詐騙集團他經過了多層所以當然你們沒有直接關係嘛那我今天要問你說今天既然已經知道像這個魔方移動有這樣子的案子出現那他也已經被NCC廢止相關的使用執照中華電信還會繼續跟這樣業者合作嗎未來還會繼續合作嗎中華電信不會跟詐騙集團合作我知道你不會跟他合作啦"},{"start":5480.945,"end":5503.896,"text":"第二個那個剛才提到的議題齁那個中華電信銷售給魔方的門號只能在國外使用那麼這個相關國外使用的剛才您提到那個上海那個個案那個我們的了解是不是魔方銷售出去的那個部分是另外的這個銷售的管道出去的所以你們意思是說你們現在如果魔方連中跟你們買你們還是會賣給他"},{"start":5505.202,"end":5523.917,"text":"那這個部分我們如果這個相關的這個跟業者合作有涉及到任何疑似詐欺的部分我們都會嚴謹來積極處理那謝謝委員指教部長我想這個詐騙不是只有檢調單位的責任我想檢調也常常抱怨說很無力"},{"start":5524.417,"end":5539.766,"text":"每個部會之間好像互相的溝通系統有問題我想今天這是個明顯的案例不然說我們今天中華電信還在強調說當然對你們的立場來講你們覺得你們認為說這個不是魔方魚都賣出的但他一系列這樣操作下來最後回到"},{"start":5540.946,"end":5556.881,"text":"騙到這個臺灣民眾的時候他的源頭就是來自於魔方運動當初跟中華電信成株的這個門號嘛所以才有這樣的結果啊這不是我講的例如說不是那你去找檢調人會說這個不是我想這個檢察官很明顯的起訴文件裡面就已經提到"},{"start":5557.341,"end":5571.079,"text":"模仿移動或類似這種二類電信公司就是跟你們承租承租完之後再轉手賣給其他業者那他去做其他的操作最後再回過頭來詐騙所以我們將強調說相關的法令我們希望中華電信跟交通部這邊應該去研擬起來"},{"start":5573.101,"end":5588.699,"text":"如果已經被廢紙執照了：如果他有相關的案例出現：他就不應該再去做這個這樣子應用：而不是說：對這問題來講我沒差：我賣給魔方運動他沒有騙人：是魔方運動賣給其他公司：其他公司去騙人的：這樣不對啊：我們希望今天做的是源頭控管："},{"start":5589.588,"end":5589.688,"text":"主席"},{"start":5619.668,"end":5644.091,"text":"你們第一當然我在強調的是模方移動他的確沒有直接的騙人他是把東西賣給別人讓別人來騙那這個行為到底跟中華電信有沒有關係因為你們是這個關國所以我們才特別提出來不能因為中華電信你們掌握的門號數你們掌握的個資比其他電信公司來的更多更直接而且大家可能也信任中華電信所以這部分我們希望還是要提一個完整的方案好"},{"start":5644.551,"end":5673.731,"text":"接下來這個案子先這樣子我們後續再討論接下來我們還提到這個這兩天這個逃機跑到稅休導致航班大亂的問題我們看到說這個排名下降的時候2022年降到67名2023年到82名的時候這個逃機公司當初回應講說未來會積極的相關協調相關業務來共同努力優化經濟從整體服務、零外交通、便利通關等等來改善提升大家的旅客服務的滿意度但是馬上就發生了這兩天的這個事件我想這個"},{"start":5675.031,"end":5693.584,"text":"在交通上面我想這個塔台跟淘氣公司這邊是不是沒有做一個做足這個準備還是維持原來的管制措施從我們收到的資料來看到原定的這個規定當然是120秒放飛一次那因為塞機之後你們才去調整調整成90秒跟60秒放飛有沒有這個事情"},{"start":5696.399,"end":5696.98,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5711.21,"end":5736.147,"text":"當然我只要確認有沒有這個時間而已那原則上呢兩架飛機離場的話離場依規定是120秒那後來有沒有縮到90秒他要看航行所謂的90的話就是說有沒有授權塔台可以90秒60秒這個他是因為航機不一定都是大型機對他可能有大小型機所以如果說你兩個離場的航機的話如果你起飛後能夠立即轉彎"},{"start":5737.328,"end":5752.157,"text":"然後跟後續的離場行進能夠有一個15分鐘時間不夠這個下一頁我們桃園機場的這個做要點面單跑到的時候每小時離到場總價是最大是每小時30價次但是我們根據預報表看到"},{"start":5753.378,"end":5774.827,"text":"3月3日當天有685架次最密集的時候是46架那等於你們的這個航管要點參考用的嘛單跑道本來說只用每小時30架次但是在3月3日當天最大的時間的時候685架最大的這個離場架次達到46架那不就表示說你們這個SOP是參考用而已嗎"},{"start":5776.541,"end":5794.541,"text":"我想這一個所謂的離場航班的一個調整這個部分其實要分開來講就是說如果你這個是例行的稅休其實你在前面需要去考慮到說一個尖峰小時大概剛剛講兩分鐘來算大概是30架單跑道"},{"start":5795.162,"end":5811.766,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":5812.085,"end":5834.228,"text":"如果前面沒有做適度的調整宣導後面就是靠流管當場的應變那流管這個應變事實上我們要跟鄰居協調啊這個機制都是協調好那什麼時候去啟動這個流管因為流管的作業是把航機等於說到我們家的要到到場的航機會攔在前一點"},{"start":5834.969,"end":5835.489,"text":"黃委員發言完畢現在請林沛翔委員發言"},{"start":5871.645,"end":5878.356,"text":"主席請王部長上台請王部長另外一張"},{"start":5880.883,"end":5900.4,"text":"王部長,請我在你們這份報告裡面看了洋洋灑灑看了一堆我發覺在67到68年你們對TPAS的這個功能性你們覺得很自豪但是我必須提醒你們看到TPAS的功能性其實實質上是大幅度被削弱的而且削弱得很厲害"},{"start":5901.241,"end":5902.462,"text":"對於公路的運輸是加每個月增加11.5%但實際上其實看不到、看得到、吃不到"},{"start":5918.49,"end":5918.51,"text":"請下頁"},{"start":5941.214,"end":5968.816,"text":"這是昨天晚上在市府轉運站1815等車的狀況當下有超過300人在那邊等車而我本期在那邊從9點半到10點的時候我在那邊等1815這台車是基隆市目前運量第二大的國道公路路線但是那個時候能夠上車的如果我記得我本期沒有記錯的話在150人左右裡面差不多只有50個人能上的了車"},{"start":5969.697,"end":5996.013,"text":"而這個擁捨的狀況非常的嚴重在下一頁在第二個2088是更大的一條是目前基隆市最大的客運路線而2088這條線呢好一點在短短的30分鐘裡面有將近5班車平均每班車有20多個人但是像這樣的狀況是如果說在我本席只是臨時去抽查在昨天晚上9點下一頁"},{"start":5999.447,"end":6019.084,"text":"本期只是臨時去搜查在昨天晚上9點半到10點之間我就看到這樣的狀況的話我想在台北市的每一個大站點我們都會看到同樣的基隆人甚至桃園人遇到同樣的國道客運班次的問題我們等車的時間實質上是越來越長的因為"},{"start":6019.784,"end":6047.363,"text":"有班次不夠因為司機不夠因為國道客運法因為運輸業管理規則其實事實上已經不符合時宜TPAS的成立對於全部的通勤族來講是件好事但是目前來講因為我們準備的資源不管是班次也好司機也好甚至車子也好我聽說我們的這個中央政府要求我們的巴士全面電動化"},{"start":6049.665,"end":6065.809,"text":"但是全面電動化的話目前我知道客運業者跟得上能夠跟得上這進度的人沒幾個啊那你補助又不夠的時候你這樣不是硬生生的逼著業者不得不去違法不得不去趕不上要求嗎這一點來講我認為運輸業管理規則如果要很快速的改變的話運輸業管理規則"},{"start":6071.87,"end":6084.084,"text":"這件事情會是未來在交通委員會在您任內不管下一項520之後您做不到交通部部長這件事情必須要馬上解決這個不關政治這是民生的問題請部長回答"},{"start":6086.707,"end":6107.859,"text":"的確基隆的客運就像委員所提的事實上如果以這樣的看式如果服務都提供的話那個更多人搭乘用T-pass更多人的確現在主要是在司機還有包括在這一次在基隆的國道客運這個首都退出以後他服務品質是比較差的"},{"start":6108.579,"end":6134.21,"text":"所以我們在這段時間也做了很多的改善那其中有一個是司機的課題司機課題在我們公路局等一下局長做一個補充他事實上有幫忙代信司機但是這個腳步的確疫情過後我認為司機的問題是其次而是在於業者是不是能夠合理有效的調度司機的班次我覺得才是我們現在真的要討論的問題"},{"start":6135.45,"end":6163.709,"text":"而這個問題上面國道客運跟一般公車我們上次在總諮詢的時候我們曾經討論過1.4公里1.4塊1公里的補助跟2.3塊1公里的補助基本上這個其實是很不合理的第二件事情就是說讓空車繼續跑讓司機開空車然後造成成本的增加這個對國道客運的業者來講也是很辛苦的所以本席在這邊強力"},{"start":6165.831,"end":6180.633,"text":"強力訴求應該要把雙北化成一個首都生活圈或首都交通圈讓基隆、桃園、宜蘭三邊的國道公車變成所謂的城際公車這樣能夠快速的解決我們現在遇到國道客運的問題"},{"start":6183.437,"end":6187.139,"text":"現在基本上就是一個生活圈,宜蘭基隆雙北"},{"start":6212.356,"end":6227.221,"text":"再來我在1到10頁部長講的在你的這份報告裡面寫最多是1到10頁的公路工程尤其是國道交流道的設置那上次我們在總諮詢的時候"},{"start":6228.641,"end":6250.4,"text":"部長一直提說軌道運輸其實某個程度上是為了都市規劃而設計的但是本席認為公路工程跟我們的國道交流道的設置才是針對國家的區域發展有長足的幫助在我到一到十頁裡面每一個你設置的這個設置的這些交流道裡面高工局都負責設計都跟用地取得工程發包"},{"start":6251.201,"end":6275.941,"text":"然後尤其最好的例子是國道33接66號快速道路國道1號接74號快速道路這方面的事情的話本席在這邊強烈推強烈建議以下幾個幾條路線我認為國道交流道這邊的工程應該延伸到那邊去第一個在基隆市安樂區國家新城地區目前那邊只有不到0.9平方公里就有15000人住在那個區域"},{"start":6277.282,"end":6302.316,"text":"而一萬五千元區域之外還加一個貨櫃場在那0.9平方公里裡面而只有一條兩線道的道路要開差不多將近1.5公里才能接上國道那這件事情其實我造成說安樂區我目前最大的選區造成常態性的大塞車天天早上都在塞車我認為這樣的困境應該需要交通部來幫忙這是第一個第二個"},{"start":6303.41,"end":6319.201,"text":"每週末我們都知道說往金山萬里都有大量的觀光客在塞車那這個問題已經不是單單純基隆市的問題包括新北的問題也常浮現而我也知道說這條高速公路為什麼會塞車主要原因是經過"},{"start":6321.583,"end":6337.852,"text":"國道3號基金交流道而基金交流道那邊要直接到金山萬里必須經過整個大武倫地區而大武倫地區嚴格講起來那邊住住有3萬人住在那邊而最主要的是國道3號並沒有一個往西向的交流道引道"},{"start":6338.892,"end":6365.416,"text":"我們如果部長還是我們的高工局的主管開過條路的時候你會發現說國道3號有到62號往東向也就是往瑞芳甚至九份方向去跑的交流道但是並沒有往西向但是本席在這邊強烈建議與其你們再重新開一條高速公路直達萬里金山倒不如好好去想一想國道3號怎麼樣去連接往西向的交流道"},{"start":6366.384,"end":6394.374,"text":"委員我能不能簡單說明一下那個國家新城的話印象中的話他是西邊是隔一個新山水庫才到國道3號所以要做可信性評估阿他應該是做一條聯絡道路看看這聯絡道路怎麼處理我先把我這邊的訴求先講清楚因為這個是工層面我認為我們如果在在工層面在不影響水庫安全的情況下我們都是可以克服的他距離國道還有1公里多"},{"start":6395.154,"end":6397.916,"text":"國道1號在於苗栗市玉清大橋這邊其實應該設一個交流道連接72號來幫助苗栗的苗中地區的經濟發展"},{"start":6411.387,"end":6423.456,"text":"這個部分以前有討論過他有高低差的問題而且那地方是崩潑曾經有癱滑過所以目前來講說那個山齁是不是我覺得可行性評估我覺得以前有處理過那請給我資料第4個我在第4頁第7項的時候我有看到國道1號"},{"start":6430.36,"end":6446.099,"text":"無篤交流道到矽脂交流道有投函計畫但是我們目前本席要求會後你要給我詳細的書面資料然後我之後我要再從這邊再去做質詢而最後一點我是目前我想請問一下因為本席以前曾經在港務公司任職過"},{"start":6447.04,"end":6475.222,"text":"在高雄的旅運中心當初是認為這個建造的經費是比基隆的旅運中心來得高很多的我記得如果沒有錯話高達20億以上那請問一下基隆港現在的旅運中心進度怎麼樣因為部長您也講過捷運到基隆捷運一定到我有生之年捷運一定到基隆市區但是如果以當初的計畫沒有錯話捷運到基隆市區的最後一站是基隆港的旅運中心那我想請教目前進度是怎麼樣"},{"start":6475.742,"end":6476.543,"text":"當時的話在99年的話是有一個規劃旅運大樓"},{"start":6497.606,"end":6499.09,"text":"那請問西六碼頭現在空在那邊做什麼?"},{"start":6507.401,"end":6516.388,"text":"那個計畫在103年的時候因為西岸會展旅運智慧大樓那同時之間也是基隆捷運最後一站那我想請問交通部"},{"start":6532.172,"end":6558.43,"text":"目前的規劃是什麼?現在這樣啦,旅運大樓現在西岸就是西2、西3嘛那個就是你們所謂的旅運大樓那你講的在西3碼頭那個他們現在還在準備花包現在西6的話,西6的部分的話就是我們有這跟當初國際標那個建築物差太多了吧當初開國際標還是那時候還是被國際認為說是優良建築物所以現在變成是什麼都不是的倉庫"},{"start":6560.213,"end":6580.208,"text":"他是最主要是涉及那個那下面有有有所謂捷運的規劃嗎文資的問題延伸線會有延伸線如果我從八堵進來以後我們當時的端點的那個地方怎麼進來就是進到進來以後就直接到你講的西當時的規劃了到西六啊西六就是跟這個林大樓這個"},{"start":6581.169,"end":6599.194,"text":"所以延續總實習我希望交通部可以主動負責起第二階段的基礎決定規劃應該這麼說西岸的李映大樓現在我們算完工就是這個有了報告那西六就是後續再來處理這樣好 林委員發言完畢林委員所"},{"start":6600.574,"end":6611.82,"text":"質詢的問題請港務公司再次跟林委員來做說明現在我們在陳素悅委員發言完畢之後要休息10分鐘來現在請陳素悅委員發言謝謝主席請主席邀請王部長還有陶基公司楊董事長陶基公司楊董事長"},{"start":6626.51,"end":6656.51,"text":"陳偉"},{"start":6657.191,"end":6664.046,"text":"不是第一次嘛,這應該是屬於常態性的工作過去都很短啦,有的是半天,這一次因為範圍比較大"},{"start":6665.798,"end":6684.626,"text":"所以時間比較長對,所以就是說這個是一個常態性的工作那為什麼以前不會發生這種塞機的狀況那這一次為什麼發生這樣子的起降大亂嚴重的塞機所以我們要去好好的檢討到底是什麼原因造成的那剛剛部長說是因為這個範圍比較廣"},{"start":6690.53,"end":6710.207,"text":"應該說廣,時間變比較長但是我覺得最大原因應該是在通知的時間比較短所以包括航空公司跟民眾不知道這個狀況所以我們現在的想法是所以這個通知是屬於行政作業嘛對那這就有涉及到這都島是不是我們的這個都島不周的這個狀況"},{"start":6712.216,"end":6737.063,"text":"是那個第一個當然是通知所以大家在因應比如說航空公司在他的航班的調整這個沒辦法到位那第二個我是覺得在航管方面航管未來在事實上剛才在談一個就是說進入我們飛行情報區之前要做管制不要說一定飛到我們空中在那邊盤選對因為我覺得這種狀況真的是蠻嚴重的因為這個也涉及到飛安的一個這個"},{"start":6739.784,"end":6741.145,"text":"我們有考慮研究賠償的問題嗎?有"},{"start":6770.929,"end":6799.12,"text":"是不是容我來做一個補充報告首先謝謝委員的指教那這一次的稅修會有這樣的一個情況是過去我們在稅修工程的經驗裡面有一些盲點沒有去處理好那除包括剛剛提到的相關單位的通告、通知在前次會議的過程當中都有邀請但是在執行之前沒有再一次做的確認另外還有一個問題就是我們過去的飛航通告是依據民進黨法規的一個國際的要求"},{"start":6799.68,"end":6816.429,"text":"在90天之內要公告但是我們現在欠缺的是對我們國內的旅客或者國際的旅客還有包括航空公司的配合的調度措施對旅客的部分讓他們及早做準備所以這些整個系統性的檢討這一兩天我們已經積極的在進行當中"},{"start":6818.69,"end":6842.227,"text":"公司內部的部分我們已經在昨天跟前天做檢討下個禮拜我們會邀請其他系統性跟這種案子有關的相關單位包括民航局、波瓦航空公司等等在進一步檢討會提出一個詳細的檢討報告那也藉這個機會再向我們的社會大眾非常鄭重的道歉基層公司這一次系統性的整合沒有做好的地方我們會積極的改進謝謝"},{"start":6844.548,"end":6861.813,"text":"謝謝楊董事長那我再請教一下部長因為這樣子的一個風波也導致外界批評說我們在逃機人士上的一個安排好像是有酬庸的這種狀況那這部分是不是可以請部長回覆一下"},{"start":6862.835,"end":6877.346,"text":"事實上第一個他們談這個楊董事長因為楊董事長本人土木水利那您知道而且是以前過去是台電的董事長那過去這個淘機電跟水是裡面很重要的一部分基礎設施"},{"start":6878.627,"end":6905.264,"text":"然後我們現在還在做三行下三跑道的建設所以事實上就是當台階董事長不是只有什麼學交通的要因應當時比如現在是以建設為主基礎設施的強韌為主所以當時這個大家有幾個人選最後選到楊董事長是這樣那另外有談到說是不是有特定比如說誰來推薦誰我昨天有跟這個董事長有討論過沒有認"},{"start":6907.145,"end":6926.596,"text":"沒有這個所指的比如說副院長去交代人事這個事情他們是按照他的徵選程序那因為他進來的人也不是很高層級的如果你高層級可能要跟院討論所以這個部分是這個陶吉本儀他的徵選的這個公告以後所選出來的人大概是這樣"},{"start":6928.022,"end":6949.998,"text":"我們當然也願意選擇相信部長的說法因為我們也知道桃園機場這幾年來很重要的一項工作就是第三航廈還有這個第三跑道的一個興建工程那這個都是非常重大的工程那在第三航廈的這個整個發包過程真的也是延誤很久我們也期待就是說能夠藉由專業人才來擔任這個職務能夠讓這個工程能夠順利不過發生了這個風波當然就會"},{"start":6957.684,"end":6984.646,"text":"讓外界對我們這個逃機的人士的能力會有一些大打折扣我們也希望是不是請楊董事長還有我們相關的總經理等等要將功贖罪是不是之後要積極的有所作為包括這個就是整個機場的運作或者是工程的一個進度等等我們都應該擔起更大的一個責任是不是請董事長說明一下"},{"start":6985.126,"end":7000.235,"text":"非常謝謝委員的勉勵事實上這一次的事件讓我們痛定思痛那這兩天我跟總經理也不斷的在主持我們內部的檢討會把所有可能要改進的地方必須要逐一的挑出來那一個重點的結論就是我們要把過去的做法打掉重練"},{"start":7001.67,"end":7028.837,"text":"包括標準作業程序因為現在的旅客運量的增加的這個狀況還有我們現在機場正在進行第三航廈等等這些工程建設的過程我們必須要更謹慎那以後有稅修工程我們會有一個標準的SOP之外會以專案的方式成立應變小組從頭到尾從開始做計畫之前就開始成立所以這個案子讓我們會有一個新的一個出發我們希望以後不再發生這樣的一個情況謝謝"},{"start":7030.918,"end":7055.359,"text":"謝謝楊董事長接下來我來請教一下有關道路安全的問題楊董事長先請回我想道路安全關係著我們所有國人的生命安全非常重要的一個問題可是最近我發現說我們交通部的相關單位在進行道路改善安全的工程之後沒有更安全反而更危險"},{"start":7056.64,"end":7082.739,"text":"因為以我的選區就是最近在過年前到現在就是在台一線有這個路口改善的一個部分結果就是針對這個在田尾民生路口這個路口改善之後到現在就發生了至少5件的這個自小客車或者是大貨車去撞中央安全島的這個車禍事故所以針對這部分部長你怎麼看"},{"start":7084.439,"end":7112.828,"text":"我想在很多道路工程的確在我們現在有一個是省道一個是地方道路地方道路我在應該上個禮拜已經請我們的一個鋰鋼參事組成一個專案小組對於省道的這個交通工程的部分包括人形設施那過去省道人形設施做很少因為過去都是比較郊外可是現在或者省道的旁邊有很多發展的地區包括人形也要使用"},{"start":7113.408,"end":7129.389,"text":"所以我已經請一個專案來看全國的包括專家學者協助公路局來做這個檢討我想說這個部分本身的警示的設備不足容易撞到我想這部分他們在交通工程必須做改善"},{"start":7130.789,"end":7155.589,"text":"我目前就是秀的這個路口其實只是其中一個路口其實在這個台線在往北的下一個路口同樣有類似的狀況就是說我們在要改善了這個左轉車道的時候我們就把這個左轉的燈號先取消了可是我們的內縮的工程卻還沒有做所以我"},{"start":7156.89,"end":7179.152,"text":"針對這一點我是要提醒我們交通部就是說我們在進行相關的道路改善工程的時候我們應該要一次到位不能說只先做一半先做半套結果這樣子剩下那一半那你在這個過程當中你就導致了很多的這個意外事故的一個發生我覺得這個責任我到底要誰來擔"},{"start":7180.662,"end":7180.943,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7197.123,"end":7224.635,"text":"交通工程部門會有一些這個建議然後我請他們這個局長也知道他們要繼續來處理是還是跟委員報告一下就是說相關的因為道路的這個像幾個路口其實大概就是上下游的車道他們有對齊然後有些要增加左轉的專用道可是對齊就是比如說增加了以後就是說那個車道前進的時候就是說他可能要還要再多畫一些行車導引線或警示的"},{"start":7225.175,"end":7251.832,"text":"讓大家不要不會說往前走就跟那個分隔島比較近撞到那為現在其實在相關的改善的部分其實包括我們自己的工程單位還協同地方的交通跟警察一起做那未來我們要增加更多的比如說像交通工程祭司有些部分其實大家可能在會刊以後大家決定可是還是有一些疏漏的地方那我們希望把這一塊能夠再補強那也部長也指示我們有專案小組會全面來檢視"},{"start":7253.334,"end":7274.075,"text":"希望我們在做先問的道路改善工程的時候我們要速度要快而且要更周全那接下來最後一件我想關心一下就是在2月底的時候就是彰化縣深港建國路口跟美港路口這邊發生了一件真的是備受矚目而且令人非常遺憾的車禍事故"},{"start":7275.596,"end":7299.939,"text":"那造成就是三個姊弟就是被撞那目前兩個姊妹還在這個交互併訪所以有關這個重大一個車禍事故地方的鄉親他們都認為說我們有關相關的這個美港公路高價化應該要盡速來推動跟完成所以是不是可以請部長簡單說明一下這個目前的進度如何"},{"start":7300.655,"end":7328.351,"text":"工務現在應該是送到國安會再審查那我們希望說趕快確定另外就這個入口來看就是說雖然這一次的原因不見得是這個工程的課題但是我覺得他畫得不好就是說這種形狀這麼長第一個沒有屁股島第二個應該是在找最短退縮做找一個最短的地方來讓他通行我也要求這個工務局在一個月內把它做一個"},{"start":7331.213,"end":7351.25,"text":"短期內先做現場的改善嗎?是,跟委員報告已經就是說做會刊而且找了專家學者那會刊完畢了那第一階段的改善的部分就是說這個斜交的行川線我們會改成Z字型的這一個行川線那這個讓行人通行更安全也有庇護到那這個一個月內會完成那另外"},{"start":7351.65,"end":7351.67,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":7365.545,"end":7391.376,"text":"陳委員發言完畢在此先做宣告本日由委員提出臨時提案以本會王力在登記質詢的本會委員發言告一段落後處理那稍後我們會在徐富奎委員巡打完畢之後隨即處理臨時提案請各黨團助理通知提案的提案人好現在休息"},{"start":8105.004,"end":8109.109,"text":"現在繼續開會現在請何欣淳委員發言謝謝主席我們李坤澤召位那我們是不是請我們部長還有陶基的董事長總經理請王部長、請楊董事長"},{"start":8128.826,"end":8152.935,"text":"何委員長我想今天我們討論的還是就制度性的問題我想3月3日的這個逃機的機場跑道的稅休那造成很多民眾的不便國內外旅客都受到影響我剛剛看到很多其他的委員也在關心這一件事你看我這一頁我把你們那個"},{"start":8154.276,"end":8155.739,"text":"擊上可能會呈現的這個航空圖我覺得是真的是覺得會"},{"start":8161.358,"end":8173.805,"text":"難怪謝金河說我們的國際機場真的是以笑大方趕不上其他國際大城市的一個機場我們那一天你看天空盤旋好幾圈的滑行道變大型停機場我看那個圖上一台飛機在上面已經繞了幾圈1、2、3、4、5、6、6圈了我們這個滑行道那個跑道上在等著要飛的這個飛機真的叫做什麼塞車、塞機"},{"start":8190.275,"end":8204.244,"text":"天空也塞地面也塞可是我要跟部長講喔地面塞的不是只有塞飛機是機場裡面可能塞了滿滿的人還有那什麼接送的車輛衍生出來的交通問題"},{"start":8206.587,"end":8217.77,"text":"謝金河先生只是其中的一個乘客他說他等著要起飛他已經睡了一切以為已經到了泰國國際機場結果原來還在桃園國際機場這真的是很離譜而且這影響是什麼國際觀光客對台灣的印象"},{"start":8228.032,"end":8232.714,"text":"這個觀感讓人家覺得非常非常的納悶怎麼一個台灣號稱這麼先進的一個科技國家我們還常常說我們是有台積電半導體這個世界最強的在台灣結果呢我們的一個國際機場竟然是讓國內外的乘客坐在飛機上都不知道該怎麼辦在天空等著在地面等著通通都不知道到底發生了什麼問題"},{"start":8255.718,"end":8280.953,"text":"這件事情真的是很大的一件事情部長我相信因為聽說當天你知道了之後你一身震怒馬上就可以開始恢復稍微比較正常那我又想了一件事為什麼你沒有震怒之前是放得這樣子擺爛的樣子你的一句話震怒然後馬上就可以解決這個就是問題之所在來接下一張"},{"start":8282.898,"end":8293.371,"text":"我還記得我們去年交通委員會我還去考察考察過淘機我那時候還提醒其他的委員也提醒"},{"start":8294.454,"end":8313.989,"text":"我們趁著疫情期間航班少機場沒有開放的情況之下應該要好好準備因為去年4月的時候國外的機場已經解封臺灣雖然比較慢但是也已經準備待發大概預期已經快要"},{"start":8315.322,"end":8315.482,"text":"來下一張"},{"start":8338.959,"end":8346.636,"text":"我們也知道陶基你也早就告訴我們的一後復甦從去年到今年尤其今年運量越來越達高峰"},{"start":8347.796,"end":8368.808,"text":"你還提醒旅客要提早3個小時報到就表示說上看了百萬人次就知道機場捷運的運量真的已經是很涌射而且運量很高那在這些因素之下來這下一張我們淘機過往也有也有這個跑道維修"},{"start":8370.748,"end":8380.697,"text":"我要提醒你在疫情期間跑到維修的程度是怎麼樣那疫情中間我們又提醒你跑到要準備那現在呢跑到稅休發生了問題"},{"start":8387.694,"end":8412.731,"text":"我就覺得很奇怪以前都沒有那麼塞機嚴重那現在為什麼我們一再提醒而且我們也說在疫情期間有準備了怎麼會這一次塞機這麼嚴重我給部長一個機會你們檢討了怎樣就是這個原因非常的我是覺得最重要一點是整個淘氣這一次的警覺心跟重視度不夠"},{"start":8414.241,"end":8431.393,"text":"市長,所以這個就是問題嘛,什麼叫做警覺心跟重視度不夠因為我已經剛剛跟你講了嘛,所有的因素都是可預期的那以前疫情之前,跑到維修、睡休也是有過經驗,不是沒經驗而已啦"},{"start":8433.305,"end":8461.744,"text":"他那個直接過去過去在這個跑道的稅修時間比較短這次他的這維修應該有18處是吧18處16處16處那我們不是提醒過你嗎疫情期間就已經在準備了啊我覺得這都不是理由就是說在困難的地方也應該在預先的準備我想這部分這個董事長總經理他們也做過這個很多的這個討論我想說剛才也提到"},{"start":8462.344,"end":8488.801,"text":"部長你講到這個討論喔你們事實上在做這個跑道稅修之前都已經開過好幾次協調會都有做過好幾次討論那為什麼之前有討論現在發生問題你們那時候討論你知道我跟你們要的資料欸你們開了三次會議欸你們要的飛航管制單位、航空公司代表、航空公司業者機務聯誼會、機師、地勤等等"},{"start":8492.25,"end":8502.559,"text":"就是沒有沒有什麼機場最重要的人叫做消費者雖然你會跟我說消費者代表很難找"},{"start":8504.114,"end":8522.299,"text":"總是有旅行社吧總是有觀光團吧總是有一些可以有依據的吧總是可以從客戶端去思考他會受到的影響在哪裡嘛而且你們也沒有對外公告喔你對外公告是給機場內部的相關的"},{"start":8523.519,"end":8540.447,"text":"公告而已喔你對外並沒有讓國人知道說我這幾天跑到稅休我可能會影響到什麼什麼可能呢會delay到什麼什麼什麼那我們有什麼因應措施我們有什麼配套措施完全資質都沒有這符合邏輯嗎部長對"},{"start":8544.068,"end":8546.15,"text":"這個就重點營運兩個字營運的單位不能只有自己的立場營運不是就是對外要有"},{"start":8565.179,"end":8591.516,"text":"因為你營運嘛,你要營利嘛,所以你有客戶,你有消費者嘛而且是我們台灣的一個國際機場嘛,而且是起降跟落地最頻繁的一個國際機場啊對,這個就是我們檢討的地方啊,就是對營運者的這個討論然後在2月20日要發這個非常公告,但是消費者完全不知道完全不知道"},{"start":8592.332,"end":8615.299,"text":"那第二個我是覺得他的會員公告2月21號然後到3月3號就進場了時間太短了因為你會員公告一下去以後包括航空公司在各地的飛機還有班次的安排那個都會來不及所以我是覺得有一點而且你們這個事前從去年的9月就開始內部討論規劃"},{"start":8617.421,"end":8636.789,"text":"我現在這是你們給我的資料喔所以他應該早一點通知比如說在去年應該最晚年底以前就要開始把這個會案公告把它傳出來因為來回到商業你們早知道這一天這幾天我剛剛有其他的委員講有698個班次要起降那還有你們自己還有一個預報系統欸"},{"start":8642.091,"end":8659.701,"text":"那你們本來的雙跑道預計多少?平常是多少?單跑道預計可以多少?這些都是可以預期的因素喔?像這個就是一個最大問題,就是當天維修又允許690班起降,這個是問題那你們之前的協調會到底在開什麼?有什麼作用?"},{"start":8664.588,"end":8678.807,"text":"就是我覺得他們這個在整個這個部分比如說理論上不應該當天有698班應該在航空公司都做一些調配的進台夜少而且那提早、正早就像部長你講的"},{"start":8680.108,"end":8703.26,"text":"我們在淘機的航空公司不管國內國外有非常非常多如果說要提早協調的話要告訴航空公司讓他們能夠因應而且呢他會牽涉到的是航空公司還必須對他們的消費者權益做交代做因應做配套這是連環的一個"},{"start":8704.581,"end":8724.188,"text":"產生了效應那我們就必須要幫忙想時間點那要提到多少那如果如果我們沒有做到這一件事的時候那就是像部長你講的我們允許了698的班次在那一天起降我們港溫泉我們就要付這個嗎我們什麼配套都沒有做欸我們什麼配套都沒公告欸"},{"start":8734.486,"end":8761.897,"text":"那影響到旅客的權益怎麼辦部長?你們現在除了有檢討我們以後要調整SOP你們兩個問題嘛第一個你們要調整SOP未來的SOP怎麼調整?你們檢討出來現在怎麼樣?第二個那旅客權益在這一次受到受損那該怎麼辦?因為你們下半年度還有北跑道的稅休喔"},{"start":8764.433,"end":8780.092,"text":"第一個通告應該是我們現在是要求他3個月前就要通告了然後航空公司開始來調班機比如說有些就不要當天來起降"},{"start":8780.993,"end":8803.114,"text":"然後第二個有關於李克權先由航空公司因為他們還是這個福海航空公司收集意見以後我請陶基開一個會議看大家的這個影響的一個狀況再來處理所以我想就由他這航空先收集一些這些相關的消費者的聲音以後我們再來看後續怎麼處理"},{"start":8804.507,"end":8806.169,"text":"下半年的維修我們目前正在做整個系統性的檢討"},{"start":8821.809,"end":8848.363,"text":"那系統性的檢討改善措施還沒有出來之前我們下半年的維修計畫會等整個檢討完以後新的制度開始執行才來訂我們的這個下半年維修計畫這種事情不要再發生是好不好我們趕快調整趕快因應配套該公布的要趕快提前公布這個不是只有台灣的這個國際形象這也牽涉到國內外觀光客所有旅客的權益好"},{"start":8849.783,"end":8850.083,"text":"合委員發言完畢"},{"start":8876.739,"end":8902.58,"text":"現在請林俊憲委員發言好,謝謝主席本期邀請我們交通部王部長請王部長還有龔總龔總、陳局長"},{"start":8909.477,"end":8933.243,"text":"部長好部長你知不知道發生在我們台南市安南區有4家貨運公司車行那車行把他們的車子靠行的車子拿去貸款就是拿去冒貸200多部車子每一台車子都至少貸款了300多萬所以"},{"start":8934.73,"end":8938.133,"text":"因為我們要成立貨運公司的門檻非常高等於是我們政策逼這些車主不得不靠行"},{"start":8958.055,"end":8975.264,"text":"因為你設立一家貨運公司資本額大概要六千萬而且你還要有幾十部的車子你才有資格成立一個車行那現在這些車主去靠行車行把車子拿去冒貸"},{"start":8976.638,"end":9005.912,"text":"更慘的是這不是第一次啊你知道2018年就發生過部長你知道嗎2018年你們兩位都在交通部嘛2018年就發生所以當時啊我們幾位委員就有提案就是你車行現在車主車子在你車行裡面你拿去貸款啊那政府應該要有一定的節制啊也就是說你必須要讓車主知道啊"},{"start":9007.981,"end":9024.265,"text":"部長你看到當時的提案沒有當時就發生過這個案例那立委也提案請交通部公總這邊要有這種交易的預告登記的精神結果又發生再次發生這樣的一個慘劇部長你知不知道這種事情"},{"start":9028.285,"end":9046.715,"text":"234輛"},{"start":9048.996,"end":9052.138,"text":"對,這一次是80幾輛,貸款1億多嘛對,貸款車輛現在掌握住我講的2018年那個案例是234輛,帶走了5億多嘛"},{"start":9060.491,"end":9083.969,"text":"對,跟委員報告2018年那時候你先回答如果你制度不改這種事情會不會再發生制度要再檢討你要怎麼改上次跟委員報告上次的時候制度檢討是因為說2018年發生過為什麼這次會再發生因為你2018年以後你那個SOP你根本沒有落實沒有調整部長你看一下"},{"start":9085.63,"end":9098.259,"text":"2018er 2018年發生的案子 然後我們在交通委員會提案 那工種就把它改成了 因為車行你要去貸款 你必須做動產的擔保設定 所以就必須向監理機關來辦理 然後呢 工種的調整是監理所再把資料轉給當地的工會 那工會再聯絡車主 聯絡車上所有人"},{"start":9112.13,"end":9112.911,"text":"公會公會公會公會"},{"start":9130.931,"end":9131.872,"text":"我跟你說你這個不改會再發生是是是"},{"start":9157.21,"end":9165.118,"text":"因為擔保設定到建立站辦完建立站的責任多輕鬆啊轉資工會就好了就沒你的事情了"},{"start":9166.141,"end":9189.573,"text":"叫你說我們是應該要跟車主說嘛 對不對所以跟委員報告他又可不可以改為直接聯繫車主你要讓車主知道嘛要啊所以就是那你現在要不要改要就是整個的註記的部分也就是說靠行的這個資料的話我們自己要掌握我不要說完全就是今天有臨時提案我就是要求你要改這個你要讓車主知道"},{"start":9190.609,"end":9217.48,"text":"要不然這樣的慘劇一定會再發生你知道設立一家貨運公司的門檻有多高嗎?它必須要有2500萬的資本額啦要有20輛以上的全新貨車啦所以幾乎一般車主都是要靠航你政府的規定等於逼迫車主非靠航不可那麼其實你就有責任應該去保護這些車主而且當然"},{"start":9219.219,"end":9246.762,"text":"擔保設定為什麼到監理站來就是你政府要有一個一定的監理機制嘛沒必要你政府這樣跟你說要幹什麼他就直接找人就好了就是擔心會有發生這樣的弊啊你照常發生2018年也是現在又發生了你先給我查2018年到現在這5年來一共發生多少次貿貸事件我再查相關的資料不會中間隔5年就中間不知道發生多少件我跟你們要資料也拿不出來不敢給我"},{"start":9248.035,"end":9271.941,"text":"趕快去把這個程序給改掉不然以後不知道還有多少車子會受害那我們請那個陶菊公司陶菊公司這次跑道工程造成班機延誤的事件也是一樣因為2015年也發生過"},{"start":9275.167,"end":9300.269,"text":"2015年也是因為修跑道啊結果造成了空中大塞車董事長知不知道這個事情二零五年事情我不太曉得不過這一次的過程當中流量管車確實是在我們做團隊裡面那你們單位知道嘛那你要修跑道喔你第一個一定考量到就是班機起降會不會延誤嘛這是必要一個考量嘛而且啊你要去辦考察你知道嗎去年喔"},{"start":9304.076,"end":9330.601,"text":"去年11月吧逃避公司還特地跑到日本大阪關西國際機場去考察日本機場在跑到整建的時候那如何不影響把這個影響降到最低啦是不是這樣然後啊發現日本關西機場的做法非常好"},{"start":9332.076,"end":9346.845,"text":"他是不停航的施工他運用臨時性的跑道邊燈這你們寫的啦每天封閉跑道燒場的時間進行施工然後再開放使用那一周他不是每天進行非連續日數進行你考察日本回來還寫個報告吧你考察上你考察回來結果這次你看就造成了"},{"start":9363.93,"end":9382.523,"text":"受影響的旅客不要說怨聲載道其實更擔心的是飛航安全因為我們法定規定飛機的油料要多載兩個小時是不是這樣子就你的油料多容許大概你飛航時間再多兩個小時再多再放更多的那個航空油料一般航空公司不會"},{"start":9391.448,"end":9399.936,"text":"因為油很重又很貴,所以法令規定多2個小時的油量,它的油箱它就是給空2小時而已你像他這樣在空中下不來啊之前還有,聽說還有盤旋4個小時以前發生過啦,以前發生過那這一次最長的盤旋,盤旋多久"},{"start":9419.278,"end":9419.638,"text":"法定規定只有兩個小時"},{"start":9449.417,"end":9462.208,"text":"因為航空優料又重又貴啦那我請問啦那你們在施工以前跟航空公司應該知道你們要施工他半次啊也沒有減少啦有沒有減少照理講他有減少他沒有減少我查一下航空公司沒有減少啦為什麼現在機票很好賣啦探緊啦"},{"start":9474.606,"end":9486.432,"text":"兩邊都有責任但是法令授予民安局你可以要求他強制減班你知不知道因為我機場我在施工我根本沒有辦法容納一個小時60個班次旗將那你航空公司沒有一家減班你會不知道嗎航空公司為了賺錢這個也不對是不是這樣現在機票都用搶的機票那麼好賣就"},{"start":9503.649,"end":9523.675,"text":"每個人都不敢搬啊,買不來啊那結果下不來還好這次啊沒有發生安全性的問題啦重點是你們還出國去考察為了要施工啊特地去國外考察人家跑到施工怎麼做啊還跑去日本大阪貿易機場回來寫個報告去衝啦董事長你是工程專家啦是"},{"start":9533.55,"end":9561.136,"text":"剛才請你到接陶器公司就是因為看中你在工程方面的專才嘛所以這一次我們經過這一次的教訓以後我們開始已經在做全門的檢討那未來的這個操作的方式呢我們會從重新的更新包括把現在所談到的這些相關問題都納進來包括航管包括航空公司還有包括對旅客的事先的讓是訊息發布的部分我們都需要重新對你的修跑道你現在的公佈都是在你們自己官網都內部看得到旅客看不到"},{"start":9562.349,"end":9587.8,"text":"我覺得以後像你們這種重大施工可能會影響到非常半次時間的你應該要放在公開網站讓一般旅客也知道你現在公佈到網站我們一般人是看不到的所以這個要特別的發佈新聞甚至你應該要用公開的新聞對不對就是要發佈新聞嘛所以你們好好地檢討這種事情不要再發生了好不好好謝謝部長謝謝董事長"},{"start":9589.308,"end":9609.559,"text":"林俊憲委員發言完畢有關於林俊憲委員針對大貨車司機權益保障的臨時提案請交通部相關單位趕快跟林委員進行文字的修正接下來我們請魯明哲委員發言"},{"start":9625.902,"end":9626.462,"text":"王國材列席"},{"start":9643.836,"end":9669.259,"text":"這個很多委員在談淘機塞機這個問題因為難跑到稅休其實剛剛我聽了這個包括部長跟我們機場公司的回答我個人是完全的不滿意而且沒辦法接受我相信這是大部分關心這個世界國人的一個態度為什麼呢我們絕對可以接受一個你做一個突發的事情"},{"start":9670.26,"end":9699.207,"text":"獲得第一次新的一個業務你手忙腳亂你不知道無法預測這我相信人情義理大家講道理這樣的一個異常的管理新的事項我們手忙腳亂發生事情人民雖然不滿但是希望透過學習改進可是跑到稅休這件事情是新的業務嗎是你們 routine例行性的工作"},{"start":9700.765,"end":9718.488,"text":"而且離譜到真的是搞到國際性的新聞啊民國103年2月份也是難跑到稅休封閉一整年一年到隔年的大概1月才開放"},{"start":9723.388,"end":9739.992,"text":"一年期間每一天飛機讓流量怎麼樣去控制你沒有很棒的人才經歷過這麼大挑戰結果到現在現在都發生什麼事今天到最後我的感覺就是裝可愛抱歉我不會我不懂所以再給我一次機會憑什麼"},{"start":9742.214,"end":9758.363,"text":"為什麼你們對一個類型性過去淘汰公司是一個整體是一個法人是一個團隊你們團隊完成了這麼多艱難相關的任務如何當年怎麼排除現在都換新人了嗎所以楊董跟范董你們哪一個是交通專業的你們都不是兩個都是工程專業的"},{"start":9763.442,"end":9773.833,"text":"那部長你用這兩位工程專業的到淘氣公司沒有留一個交通專業甚至航管這個系統出來的人是當時的想法是什麼"},{"start":9774.81,"end":9799.625,"text":"沒有,他們的各個組裡面都有這個相關,副總也都是各方的專業那的確這一次是在於這個等於台灣機場包括三航廈三寶道的建設還包括機組設施的強韌所以也找到他們這方面的專長來,現階段是以這個為主OK,在這個事件上面我們已經看到了"},{"start":9801.527,"end":9828.601,"text":"有很多看得見的危機剛剛很多委員說過了包括人民的一個不滿包括很多人請了假根本沒有辦法順利的尤其轉機客影響真的非常非常大我覺得你們如果說閉口不去了解或去談可能的補償這個問題我覺得可能到最後你們也會驚慌失措再來我想問一下董事長"},{"start":9830.429,"end":9856.187,"text":"請問一下我們3月3日你們施工塞機這個一個情況發生到這個不管是輿論、事實上有這麼嚴重你事前有沒有預測到?是事前有估算到嗎?事前確實沒有估算到那總經理、范總你事前有預算到、估算到嗎?報告委員我想我們"},{"start":9857.15,"end":9883.351,"text":"在過去的經驗如果是跑道維修可能會產生有延誤的這個情形但是這一次的延誤的狀況的確是超過我們的預期好剛剛部長其實也提到你們有很多專業人才我也認為說你們經歷過這麼多次的一個機場的一個稅休在稅休的時候該做什麼樣的一個航管控制該跟國內的一個航空公司甚至國外的機場做什麼樣的一個聯絡"},{"start":9885.493,"end":9907.393,"text":"我怎麼發覺現在有點快要歸零了你知道嗎我覺得這個東西是讓我覺得看不見一個最大的危機你們董事長總經理重要的部門一直在換我姑且我不管你有沒有事才事所你到了這個位置你就要把這個事情把它做好這是你們編這麼多預算"},{"start":9914.279,"end":9926.007,"text":"人民聽到我聽到好害怕你知道嗎我們一群我們一群超專業的人在第一線幫我們守住了顧住了他們都預算到結果現在董事長總經理說其實"},{"start":9927.668,"end":9944.148,"text":"沒有算到當天你感覺跟人民一樣嚇了一跳你感覺跟坐在機上孤單兩個小時的旅客嚇了一跳你感覺就好像在航空公司盤旋那些人怎麼以這樣的一個意外呢所以我覺得這非常非常的不應該"},{"start":9946.052,"end":9969.503,"text":"我真的介意你剛講的應變小組專案小組你真的就是這個事情就是要專案小組現在擺明誰來籌組這個專案小組你要追蹤進度你不能用開會開完會大家解散航空公司解散要做不做進度做到哪裡不知道航管他的回應到底如何沒有一個長期性的一個連結你這個問題我跟你講"},{"start":9973.703,"end":9994.794,"text":"你們裏面的人有說啊說真的這麼多的數據那一天我施工會有多少航班要下來我們淘機只有北跑道可以用這是明明數學就可以算出來的一些問題居然我們就眼睜睜看了大船往冰山上面撞所以我覺得這很不應該了齁"},{"start":9996.533,"end":10019.543,"text":"那未來除了專案小組之外你們這個還有什麼具體的一個作為要去做說一下當然專案小組就是要管控整個從稅修計畫開始一直到稅修計畫結束流程當中的每一個環節那這個環節在過去的經驗我們所定的這些SOP我們重新檢視會把缺的部分缺少的部分補上來"},{"start":10020.203,"end":10043.71,"text":"第二點最重要的是對旅客跟航空公司的部分這一塊在過去的做法我們發布了飛航通告對象基本上是專業的這個對象那對民眾的這一塊或者是對於航管的預測的這一塊我們現在缺少這一塊的完整度那這個部分我們也在繼續宣導當中好董事長這個事實上將近10年前南跑道封閉一年"},{"start":10044.75,"end":10072.496,"text":"因為當時的溝通包括飛航的公告協調花了蠻久的時間才能夠慢慢舒緩你現在去怪航空公司怪列克都沒有道理嘛因為你們前大概十幾天才公告他們半年前就預備三個月大概票很多就訂滿了所以我覺得這個東西至少3、4個月以前你們就要去發布要有這樣的一個能力要這樣去做"},{"start":10073.998,"end":10075.543,"text":"接下來應該是公務總局吧"},{"start":10080.526,"end":10108.839,"text":"我想你們最近開了協調會同樣找了針對我們道教條例相關罰則、祭典甚至檢舉的一個方式有做了一些討論但我們看到後面的一個報導我們發覺好像是在平行線上面討論那邊是司長主持也沒有聚焦那你們現在這個案子是微調的案子是不是已經送到"},{"start":10110.327,"end":10129.508,"text":"行政院過了嗎?要送來立法院了嗎?禮拜四、院會就明天?明天院會那院會如果過了就會來立法院審議嗎?是不是?我想到立法院還是可以討論目前我們是用這個違罪這個不祭典的方式來"},{"start":10131.51,"end":10132.831,"text":"我現在看到市上很多的衝突點的確啦"},{"start":10151.226,"end":10176.229,"text":"我們在這個道交條例去年6月份上路之後後面發覺很多的可能工程面因為很多工程面是地方政府大家能不能配合的很多的包括我們取締它的標準剛開始一不一致這等等的包括宣導的時間夠不夠但是現在法令上路了嘛到現在這個反應怎麼樣去抓到一個平衡點"},{"start":10177.27,"end":10207.03,"text":"國外現在很多都在講完整街道一個理念就是這條道路他應該思考到所有要使用者我覺得這是一個非常好而且非常理想的境界我覺得這個當然目前在台灣適合已經落實在很多的新的區段徵收區塊他確實這樣去做那我們在這樣的一個完美理念現在遇到最大的衝突就是很多的馬路根本連人行道都沒有了"},{"start":10208.411,"end":10208.431,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":10226.005,"end":10240.718,"text":"你接到很多一個陳情啦當然行人很多連行人道都沒有走很多的騎樓也被擋住他們我們包括我們我們如果沒有開車都變行人啦但是我也發覺我們沒有開車有可能也去上班"},{"start":10241.826,"end":10262.502,"text":"我們沒有開車有可能是回家過生活回家過生活要加體成員有人要去買菜有人要去7-11其實我們每一個人都可能在這個完整街道上扮演不同的角色但是我是覺得你現在要調整的方向現在溝通已經結束了嗎?"},{"start":10264.232,"end":10269.216,"text":"昨年11月有特別要求希望地方政府優先盤點3個月盤點最好是每100到150公尺有10%的"},{"start":10287.111,"end":10287.492,"text":"王國材列席報告業務概況．"},{"start":10303.266,"end":10331.562,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告一下目前各縣市地方政府尤其六都都在這個辦理那這個各縣市辦理的這個進度不一那我在這個2月份也有開過一次會議掌握進度那後面的話剛剛這個委員所提到在禮拜一跟陸選團體討論的時候這個部分大家有共識交通部會每兩個月然後邀請兩個縣市以六都為優先來邀請他們西部盤點這個每個地方政府辦理的一個這個進度"},{"start":10341.951,"end":10355.143,"text":"公共會建議的還有地方政府自己去盤點的一個部分的話我在2月份開會的時候基本上大概都有一定的一個進度在做一個處理我想細節部分我們等法案送過來的時候我們再做細部討論謝謝"},{"start":10359.651,"end":10384.512,"text":"盧委員發言完畢現在請尤浩委員發言麥克風麥克風謝謝一樣有請部長王部長嗨"},{"start":10390.111,"end":10391.094,"text":"謝謝,那一樣針對延續討機、塞機的問題"},{"start":10399.571,"end":10418.58,"text":"那部長還有陶基的不管董事總經理那今天延續大家還是針對陶基的稅修的部分還造成塞機的問題那本席同樣這個塞機的問題他不僅是管理處的問題他同時這個飛機在那邊塞機的時候"},{"start":10421.181,"end":10443.01,"text":"都有可能造成非常嚴重的甚至包括飛機如果相撞或者是包括重大的空難這個是一定有可能發生我們在立院一直都希望的包括大家交通都是很平順包括飛機的航空安全都是非常的能夠有保障"},{"start":10443.891,"end":10452.773,"text":"那這個稅修的這一次的事件那確實是有可能造成空難那我想請教部長您覺得有沒有這個可能"},{"start":10453.527,"end":10474.204,"text":"的確這一次比如說在通告時間太短然後航空公司可能來不及應變所以那天在修跑道剩一條跑道當天還有近700架的飛機在起降我想這個是在淘氣必須做一個檢討應該是把它分散到別的別天去"},{"start":10475.225,"end":10498.624,"text":"然後另外就是在整個這次另外就是乘客都不知道這件事也是很嚴重就是說乘客不知道有修跑道可能會有延誤這件事情也很嚴重我想說未來他們除了在相關的營運者包括地勤包括航空公司的通知以外旅客通知一定要到位要不然他沒有預期到說可能延誤"},{"start":10499.545,"end":10525.142,"text":"所以在這個反應上面就非常的影響很大所以我想說已經有非常多的細節必須來討論那他們下半年是要修北跑道我想這一次的經驗應該要他們在北跑道的時候完全不能發生這樣的狀況所以說部長我想問一下本來應該要在多久以前的時間要先進行公告"},{"start":10526.448,"end":10549.174,"text":"我們建議是應該是三個月 正常就是三個月前 但是公告的話是幾月幾號公告他們是2月21號公告 他是沒有說一定要三個月但是我們是覺得一定要有一個三個月讓他包括航班的調度等等的那其實本來就應該要在三個月前公告才是比較正確的 是"},{"start":10550.134,"end":10573.305,"text":"但是2月21日才公告那這樣子短短的兩個禮拜的期間那造成這樣子重大的一個失誤那非安的這種安全的確保啊那這種風險是不可以有任何的一個偏差所以說部長你也覺得這是有可能造成空難的沒有錯這一次我們也非常注意這個事了比如說在盤有沒有可能造成空難"},{"start":10574.178,"end":10577.762,"text":"有沒有任何一點可能性?我們不會讓它發生啦,但是的確有這樣的一個可能性嘛對不對"},{"start":10595.987,"end":10621.976,"text":"在航管這一塊為什麼要做流量管理主要就是要確保整個載空機的安全流量管理的話是在一個正常的情況之下才會進行這個流量管理那這個是突發的狀況的話流量管理的話大家我相信交通部一定都說沒有問題啦那航管一定都說沒有問題啦但是發生問題的時候通通都是在認為沒有問題的情況之下發生的那我想問一下這一次的這個整個過程中"},{"start":10623.897,"end":10629.638,"text":"那我想請教部長那一個單位應該去負最大的一個責任誰是最可以獲首"},{"start":10630.994,"end":10652.702,"text":"我想在整個因為他們現在直接說哪個單位好了我覺得當然是這個桃園機場他們在這一次的稅休包括桃園機場那我直接問部長那因為這個是包含的在後面稅休的處理以及包含在未來相關的一個這種維護上大家要做一個實施警惕實施檢討"},{"start":10654.503,"end":10670.475,"text":"那我想問一下在這一次的經驗上必須要有一個負責的成績或是救責的成績我想請問目前在部長這一個事件上哪一個成績會負到什麼樣的責任不管是行政責任或是政治責任請部長回答"},{"start":10671.597,"end":10685.522,"text":"我想因為這次他們在第二天就完全掌握了在第二天原來三天的跑道的變成兩天因為這個不是第二天因為這本來就不應該發生的部長你也認為不應該發生嗎?"},{"start":10687.022,"end":10706.196,"text":"對我覺得那這一次的懲處的成績我相信不管是機場的內部的人員在看交通部在看社會各界也在看想請教部長這一次的預計負責的成績要懲處的成績到哪裡沒有現在就是因為我們的行政司就是會簽上來就是但是他們現在的確內部在討論在這個構成中"},{"start":10709.258,"end":10731.209,"text":"比如說他們開了這麼多的會議在航空公司不知道到底我們淘機的後續的追蹤比如說這個航班到底有沒有去做一些改變等等的我想等他們檢討出來以後我們再來所以說這次目前沒有有任何人對這次的負責沒有就是他們檢討報告我們行政司會送上來我們再來討論應該"},{"start":10739.841,"end":10749.485,"text":"一個月內就是我們會做一個處理所以說都不用懲處一個月做處理就是裡面可能會有懲處他懲處到哪個層級預計預計會懲處到哪個層級等他們送上來吧所以說現在沒有辦法對社會各界回應"},{"start":10762.902,"end":10789.469,"text":"沒有那個就是一個月內沒關係一個月內之後我們看後面的結果好不好在今天也不用特別去但因為最主要是需要有這樣子的回應是社會各界的回應因為不僅是航空公司裡面大家也在看社會各界也在看因為宣案是不能夠有任何的失誤那這次來講我相信不可以再犯因為大家時時會盯著此案那同樣的我想要再延續著"},{"start":10790.529,"end":10812.396,"text":"就是之前跟部長就教的有關於南投縣那這個機場的終結、延伸、何時何定在這個局限的部分那今天也有提一個臨時的提案那包括南投縣政府在南投縣軌道系統整體路網評估計畫那也有提出那機場公司請回"},{"start":10813.276,"end":10839.763,"text":"再來就是在2014年的時候蔡英文總統曾經在南投的這個場合直接公開宣誓要將終結延伸到南投那在賴清德未來要就任的總統也在南投的時候提出了要讓終結延伸到南投那我想請教一下部長終結何時可以延伸到南投你有沒有把握"},{"start":10840.243,"end":10854.355,"text":"現在跟郵委報告,我們當然是支持台中的軌道延伸不管是南線延伸還是局線延伸現在我們也請地方政府提出因為現在的決定是這樣"},{"start":10855.356,"end":10882.379,"text":"他要提出可行性報告我們來審查中國規劃通過以後我們就補助我們交通部主要是在這個經費補助的部分那現在就是臺中市政府跟南南投縣政府討論一下包括整個路線的這個規劃然後提出報告那相關的這個可行性的這個報告我們可以做一些經費的支持那我想要這部分地方提出來我們會按照我們行政程序來來審查"},{"start":10883.86,"end":10907.318,"text":"因為在賴清德來南投的時候他又直接提到了一個吸引、兩大申請、八大計畫那我想請教一下在他所提的這個政見要延伸到南投的部分部長你怎麼解讀以及說他已經公開承諾了賴清德已經公開承諾了而且這個部分從2014年蔡英文其實騙南投人騙到現在"},{"start":10907.978,"end":10924.481,"text":"那賴清德他來南投再次承諾我想請教一下部長在你任期內有沒有可能能夠確實來承諾讓這個終結延伸到南投局限的部分這個表示兩位總統的態度很清楚嗎"},{"start":10924.881,"end":10925.822,"text":"邀請交通部部長王國材列席報告"},{"start":10943.499,"end":10959.074,"text":"我想知道剛才我相信林佩祥也在想有生之年希望能夠看到那我在想說終結到南投有生之年大家也都能夠看到那部長你有沒有辦法承諾在你任期上能夠具體的能夠回復南投還有是不是終結到南投有具體進度"},{"start":10960.095,"end":10979.681,"text":"我的態度就是兩位總統的態度一樣我們支持就是說軌道不是只有都會區它應該是往外延伸就像這個臺北延伸到這個新北一樣甚至到桃園我們的態度支持那地方提可行性我們來協助"},{"start":10981.604,"end":10999.315,"text":"那所以說有沒有辦法具體的承諾在你的這個任內的期間能夠加速的配合南投縣政府因為南投縣政府有提其實那時候你們也知道嘛不是那那個提出來然後我們也可以做協助越快越好啦好啦儘快因為等一下會提案解決齁好好謝謝與委員發言完畢現在請萬美玲委員發言"},{"start":11013.84,"end":11016.342,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請部長請部長部長好 我們桃園的鐵路地下化從高架改成地下化到現在多久的時間 您知道嗎"},{"start":11032.105,"end":11037.048,"text":"應該在鄭市長上任市長的時候做一個改變"},{"start":11062.165,"end":11074.93,"text":"現在主標的4個標應該這個月都會發表出去就是這個主標的部分然後全部也就是去年的確是發表了"},{"start":11077.031,"end":11092.539,"text":"到目前為止我們看到土建標有17個標可是以目前來說是有7個已經絕標了那基建標的部分14個標裡面有5個是已經絕標了那所以其實本市很關心的就是我們的中路站然後還有我們的這個桃園站"},{"start":11094.06,"end":11110.636,"text":"聽說現在也進入到要這個決標的一個階段了算是總算有一點進度了不過呢這期間因為我想鐵路是連貫的嘛我們的鳳鳴站、內力站以及桃園醫院站這幾個站到目前為止看起來都還沒有進到發包的這個部分來"},{"start":11111.317,"end":11130.788,"text":"所以我想不管土建標、基建標其實都有待進度的加強另外我想請教的就是交通部自己原來的規劃上有說我們整個桃園內壢到中壢這一段你預計在118年4月可以通車全線119年7月就可以通車了那我跟部長來報告一下"},{"start":11132.869,"end":11153.765,"text":"這個桃園鐵路地下化通車不論是剛剛說的桃園內立跟中立站或者是全線我們已經聽過了N個版本了那常常都是給我們欺騙再欺騙真的是騙很大從我們看到過去鄭文燦市長的時候的臉書他自己寫的現在都還在他也沒把它撤掉說是114年要通車一回又說115、116現在來到您這裡118現在說119這個數字聽了我們桃園市民都麻痹了"},{"start":11162.211,"end":11172.482,"text":"所以我認為真的是需要在這個進度上面再加強一下那部長能不能就現在我們延宕的原因跟我們現在各標案這個進度的狀況簡單的簡述一下現在有兩個變數一個就是你講的桃園CJ12標因為文資的課題"},{"start":11182.432,"end":11198.613,"text":"那一天我們剛好在台灣有一個這個中線的這個現場的說明我有特別請那個台灣市政府這邊一定要協助因為他們在文化局部一定要協助要不然這個可能會拖很長第二個是憑證的延伸"},{"start":11199.494,"end":11220.479,"text":"因為現在憑證延伸後來是希望納到這個計畫那憑證離這個很遠你知道嗎他從可行性開始做所以這兩個加我們出戶如果這兩個沒有妥善的這個處理還會再延長1819都可能做不到所以我們現在就是部長所以您現在是公開的說1819又做不到了"},{"start":11220.819,"end":11234.475,"text":"因為這兩個是這個加入 如果憑證不納到這一個的話我們就拼一下 憑證納進去 我覺得我們分段來看嘛 那憑證這個這個變數啊我們先暫時放在旁邊 前面這一段你可以如期118年通車嗎"},{"start":11237.677,"end":11257.723,"text":"我們現在就是還是前面還是11812但是鐵路不會這樣就是你做當然我理解但是你進度工程要趕上嘛對不對不能每一段每一段一直延宕你每一段一直延宕你最後總工程期就會像過去這9年來桃園市民被騙很大那你知道那個期待非常的高每一次每一次落空說真的"},{"start":11258.803,"end":11279.418,"text":"本席今天在這裡垂尋118跟119我覺得桃園市民即便聽到也會覺得說哎呀又喊了一個數字出來但我覺得我們不能這樣我們要對我們所說的這個承諾要把這個責任負起來所以部長我想請教一下那現在我們桃園站跟中路站的進度情況是怎麼樣我請局長幫你說明"},{"start":11280.845,"end":11281.285,"text":"接下來就另外一個問題了"},{"start":11297.133,"end":11325.2,"text":"部長我想在總質詢的時候我也跟您這個就教過那也就是說我們不管看到這個臨時軌的工程或者是我們主體工程的發包很多都是第一次在招票的預算到絕標的預算上面那個相差的金額真的非常的大那現在有很多一直在流標當中那個相差的金額就到了1億、3億這麼大的一個金額那總體在臨時軌的這個部分我們看到這個額度高達9億的差別這還不算多我們看到主體工程"},{"start":11325.74,"end":11348.493,"text":"竟然高達131億的這個工程的一個決標數的差額那當初我們有說這整個工程中央負75%我們地方負25%可是現在本席竟然聽到交通部自己跟我們的回答說我們本來鐵道局說我們1048億鐵路地下化總預算現在已經完全用完了甚至於已經超支了是這樣嗎?"},{"start":11349.735,"end":11350.395,"text":"所以1048已經花完了,而且還超支了是嗎?"},{"start":11367.702,"end":11389.796,"text":"目前是還沒有超支,因為超支在預算程序上在我們目前說不夠了那因為過去三年的整個營建物資我理解喔,不過我想部長我的天啊我們還有這麼多的工資還沒有發包出去但預算現在已經花完了喔那我覺得在這裡有一個非常鄭重的要跟這個部長提喔第一個,那這個預算要趕快來補出來喔"},{"start":11391.417,"end":11420.183,"text":"第二個呢我們當初所說的75%中央付、25%地方付但現在尤其工程一直延宕那這個總預算增加了那我們的那個25%的部分我想是不是交通部這個部分要能夠幫這個桃園市政府來解套不能夠把這樣的一個成本加注在桃園市政府的這個身上所以呢早一個時間我們跟部長這邊來討論這個75%跟25%然後追加的工程的部分我們希望中央能夠全部買單這樣可以做得到嗎"},{"start":11421.983,"end":11439.909,"text":"好,萬委員發言完畢接下來在邱委員還沒有發言之前我們先再做個說明等一下臨時提案是在徐富奎委員發言完畢之後處理臨時提案"},{"start":11441.089,"end":11460.897,"text":"我們今天早上的開會到許智傑委員發言完畢之後雖然中午原則上不休息但是還是要給大家基本吃飯的時間所以許智傑委員發言完畢之後我們會給大家吃飯的時間到一點半現在請邱若驊委員發言"},{"start":11470.905,"end":11494.035,"text":"主席好 有請部長請王部長部長 桃園機場南跑道年度稅休 京陽瀨北跑道起降多架班機 起降延路改時嚴重衝擊到機場的秩序 桃機跟交通部也坦言衝擊超乎預期"},{"start":11496.551,"end":11525.066,"text":"請問部長這次管理失能對被延誤的旅客之賠償金額估計是多少?航空公司要求索賠估計多少?這些都是國庫的損失依據什麼時候可以統計出來?現在還沒有談到這個現在是先調查因為航空公司跟顧客先來那他們整個處理完以後我會請這個陶器公司找航空公司來算一下那才決定後續怎麼處理這個都還沒有算出來"},{"start":11525.566,"end":11538.971,"text":"國際旅客還有外籍航空公司怎麼看待這次的事件那這次機場管理失能傳到國外對台灣是負面的那想請問部長這次的事件旅客還有航空公司是怎麼看待的"},{"start":11552.523,"end":11576.771,"text":"我想這一次我覺得這個在機場公司這邊的緊急性不夠就是說在這個已經知道那一天要有這麼多航班那應該是航班的分散還有相關的這個航空公司是不是已經改班次等等的要先確定我想說這一次也讓陶基也做一個徹底的一個檢討"},{"start":11578.391,"end":11580.274,"text":"這次是提前54小時前預告嗎?"},{"start":11593.878,"end":11608.443,"text":"請問部長,提前預告的時間。他是2月21號告訴各個航空公司,那我們覺得這個時間也不夠,因為如果旅客已經訂了飛機,航空公司要變也很難。"},{"start":11609.468,"end":11626.026,"text":"所以我覺得這個通告應該會更早啦我們現在現在是給他的這個整個檢討情形是說三個月前就應該公告不只不只營業者還要包括這個消費者就是說旅客也要公告讓他心裡有所準備OK好"},{"start":11626.627,"end":11642.999,"text":"那這次機場難跑到稅收造成航班大亂．交通部也坦承整修規模較往年比較大．而且沒有注意到交通量那這也凸顯出機場管理的問題去年在英國全球機場評比桃園機場從67名"},{"start":11646.323,"end":11647.424,"text":"因果有一個叫做那個"},{"start":11677.723,"end":11691.568,"text":"ビジネス・ファイレンションビジネス・ファイレンション的這個媒體他的評比在2023台灣機場是全世界第9名那Square Tracks他是從旅客的這個感受來看這個機場那我們可以看到就是說這個"},{"start":11692.908,"end":11721.789,"text":"在2023他們的調查應該是在2023的前面這段時間就是疫情期間那疫情期間跟委員報告我們機場很多的免稅店是沒有開的還有很多的這個包括這個管制讓這個機場的這個因為防疫來做很多管制所以我事實上我在應該幾個月前有到機場跟他們做這方面SkyTrack為什麼降這麼多的一個討論跟他們討論過他們也大概有幾個方向在處理"},{"start":11722.749,"end":11738.906,"text":"當然也不能說我們好像台灣機場做得很好我覺得全世界的機場都在競爭包括像這一次的3月3日的這個問題我想說機場要改善的地方還非常的多我想說最重要的是機場應該這一次的學習"},{"start":11742.73,"end":11743.33,"text":"請問部長目前的興建情況如何?"},{"start":11764.685,"end":11788.197,"text":"三行下現在還是在115年然後我們會陸續從北廊廳、主行下跟南廊廳意思是說雖然115年做完但是我們北廊廳會先開放登機所以應該是在一年左右一年左右開始這個第三行下的北廊廳已經可以登機了這樣全體完工三行下是在115年後完工115"},{"start":11796.349,"end":11815.458,"text":"對民進黨政府施政相挺的財經專家謝金河也感嘆臺灣的經濟力大有進展不過機場建設卻落後他也向新任總統蔡金河喊話這也許是未來施政很好的著力點那過去8年是民進黨執政對謝金河先生的發言有何感想"},{"start":11816.601,"end":11838.562,"text":"我想,像過去台灣經常在疫情前表現是算還不錯,它事實上你可以看到108它在全世界很多的評比都是前面的那當然透過這個在疫情這段時間他們事實上像一些跑道還有一些這個航廈的推動都是一直一直往前我想說這一次我覺得是一個"},{"start":11840.544,"end":11864.878,"text":"沒有很有警覺心對一個這樣的一個一條跑道的艇沒有一個警覺心我想也不是說我個人是覺得說這一天這個是要檢討但是並沒有辦法說用這一天來否定整個台灣機場他們的努力但是我覺得3月3日這一天的檢討是我們必須痛定思痛來檢討的"},{"start":11866.035,"end":11888.072,"text":"好那機場跟觀光有非常大的關係那臺灣的觀光好像還在原地踏步被盤點出幾個致命傷像是景點特色不足還有重視短期補助或是長遠的規劃嚴重的缺工還有旅遊費用高那現在的困境不只影響就是海外來臺旅遊的意願那許多國人呢也認為出國比國旅好那根據交通部觀光署調查那112年的統計總共有1170"},{"start":11891.354,"end":11891.794,"text":"數字差這麼多"},{"start":11906.722,"end":11922.912,"text":"對 我們開放國境的時間點也比較晚 那我們其實應該分兩個部分來談 一個是外國客來台灣 另外一個就是我們國民旅遊 那國旅的部分我們在去年其實已經超越了我們"},{"start":11924.252,"end":11940.948,"text":"民國108年也就是2019的標準今年我們的目標就是希望能夠挑戰回復到疫情之前全球的分析也是這樣有保守值跟樂觀值也就是2024年是樂觀值保守值是到2025年回到2019年的標準"},{"start":11946.613,"end":11960.126,"text":"那麼這個部分我們當然是也希望能夠開闢更多的亮點是,署長那回到標準大概人數會是多少目標數是多少我們目前還是以我們2019年是1187萬人次那我們還是以這個標準來努力"},{"start":11967.373,"end":11989.565,"text":"因為疫情之前台灣每年觀光人數都是超過千萬人的嘛那在日本還有亞洲國家人數都已經回到疫情前的標準了還有人數那交通部觀光署去年訂的目標其實當時林民進黨立委也認為不高要達到目標應該不是很困難的事那可以提出具體的方案嗎就是在針對我們發展台灣觀光這一塊"},{"start":11990.746,"end":12010.424,"text":"是,我們大概應該是還是要跟國際的發展趨勢一致了所以我們現在對台灣的強項裡面有幾個就是生態旅遊跟部落旅遊還有就是我們希望能夠倡議這個所謂的MICE就是順道旅遊也就是會議之後的休假旅遊的部分"},{"start":12012.786,"end":12019.571,"text":"因為去年的時候部長有說過去年12月8號的時候不管有說過不管今年陸客會不會來都希望可以達成1200萬人次那這個是怎麼算出來的?"},{"start":12023.61,"end":12046.974,"text":"這是我們的目標就是恢復到以前的水準因為去年本來這個600萬也有100萬是入客啦後來我們就用其他地方來補回來這樣子是好那馬上第一季觀光統計出來之後希望可以提供書面資料是再麻煩部長那這邊我們也看到從桃園市政文產前市長到現任的張善政市長都在積極我們全國第14個國家級的風景區"},{"start":12050.515,"end":12069.443,"text":"北橫國家風景特定區請問後來行政院協調的如何了這個部分大概有已經初步的一個想法是有了但是因為主要有兩個部分一個就是這個我們叫做有一些原住民的部落他們還是要經過部落會議的討論"},{"start":12071.564,"end":12092.493,"text":"第二個是我們相關單位的橫向的協調比如說有一些是林業署的這個拉拉山的這個遊樂區還有一個範圍包括石門水庫是不是應該納在裡面還有一些涉到國防部的這些慈湖的這些部分好謝謝署長"},{"start":12095.423,"end":12118.541,"text":"邱委員發言完畢現在請蔡其昌委員發言謝謝主席請王部長請楊董事長蔡委員好部長好董事長好"},{"start":12125.677,"end":12153.081,"text":"一個早上大概朝野的委員都在桃園機場這一次稅休導致塞機的這個事件上面那事實上大家談的我也不再重複啦但我覺得三件事把它做好第一個道歉並研議往後針對這個事件包括可能嚴重受損的旅客是不是有相關的一些補償的機制這個第一個第二個"},{"start":12154.909,"end":12176.827,"text":"非常重要的關鍵稅修不是新聞就稅修機場固定稅修都一定要做那這一次稅修會讓董事長跟總經理沒有預估到會導致今天這個情形那我認為這個稅修的SOP一定有問題不然怎麼可能會"},{"start":12178.121,"end":12195.374,"text":"以前怎麼弄發展到今天的稅修會變成塞機然後旅客抱怨然後變成了一個大家覺得不可思議的情形所以這個稅修的SOP的機制的檢討立刻進行可以嗎這個要多久的時間可以做好"},{"start":12196.568,"end":12215.03,"text":"報告委員目前已經在進行檢討當中公司內部的部分在這個禮拜會檢討出來公司外部的單位在下個禮拜會檢討這個我想不會需要太多的時間我想兩週到一個月之內一定要把新的稅修到未來的這個SOP到底要怎麼來做"},{"start":12216.051,"end":12239.187,"text":"到底你要多久之前公告因為稅修我們現在就已經知道大概南跑道好了之後接下來北跑道那接下來下一次要稅修的點在哪裡他大概什麼時間多少錢因為你的預算一定事先編列了嘛所以這個其實不要說3個月我認為可以早盡量半年嘛因為現在啊國際都在塞啦"},{"start":12240.365,"end":12268.283,"text":"機票很難訂啦所以像我的經驗來講我都要提早半年訂嘛所以你現在必須先讓我知道半年後我要去的機場我要出發的航班會不會因為你又有稅休如果今天是突發的那沒有辦法我想國人大家可以接受但是稅休這樣的事情犯了這個錯誤這個應該要真的檢討特別是我想楊董事長我覺得我從你從在政府部門的公務機關一路"},{"start":12270.104,"end":12298.877,"text":"從基層一路上來過去你在水利署或者經濟部的表現其實我都很肯定不管從馬總統一路到蔡總統我對你的表現我都是很肯定所以你是有能力的人有能力的人面對這個事情那就應該把更清楚的透明的讓大家知道原因在哪裡怎麼做要怎麼改觀不要再讓這個事情發生這個就是我想你去淘汰公司這個就是你所要的工作"},{"start":12299.597,"end":12316.495,"text":"那最後一個就是我剛剛講你SOP出來之後你才有消費者的預警機制的建立啦其實預警機制的建立大家都在講要公告公告我不反對但其實TA目標客戶很清楚目標客戶都在航空公司跟旅行社啦"},{"start":12317.116,"end":12341.294,"text":"也就是你的預警機制裡面怎麼直接把可能要搭飛機的人你的關鍵就在於航空公司跟旅行社之間怎麼快速讓他知道說你買這一班飛機有可能會遇到稅休甚至我告訴你買這班飛機就是遇到稅休所以你有可能你就會被延誤兩小時、三小時所以航空公司從賣票開始該不該賣他就先提醒消費者"},{"start":12342.998,"end":12366.239,"text":"不該賣的票就不該賣反正這一班已經會延遲超過12個小時那這個班還要賣嗎那第二個如果這個是延遲一兩個小時你有預警機制讓消費者事先知道我相信消費者他會選擇這個航班他就已經知道會有這個遇到稅休的這個情形所以他的那個感受就是他的不爽的程度自然下降因為我已經告訴你"},{"start":12366.88,"end":12368.841,"text":"第二件事情大家都在談這個機場的排行"},{"start":12388.686,"end":12416.607,"text":"雖然我已經8年的時間沒有在交通委員會但事實上這個是common sense也就是每一個調查單位他對每一個機場的排名其實他都有他的量化的指標啦那有些指標我們可以達成那有些排行看起來數字不好嘛比如說這個13名調到82名這個看起來數字就非常糟糕"},{"start":12417.863,"end":12436.253,"text":"我們也知道這個排名其實主要都還是在消費者他的滿意度的調查當然我也可以接受疫情哪有消費者會對桃園機場滿意的我想大家都很不滿意包括我在內但是這個就是疫情所以我們應該針對像這種讓台灣很難看的這種數字"},{"start":12441.195,"end":12463.809,"text":"我認為淘汰公司應該要把它在今年因為今年現在才3月到12月我們還有很大的努力空間我們都知道它的重點是什麼所以把它的針對它的重點改善雖然這個我常常在講這個任何的評鑑都是一樣的立法院也是一樣立法院也有這個民間NGO團體在評鑑每一個立委"},{"start":12465.646,"end":12480.232,"text":"每一個評鑑他的公告都會公告他的準則嘛比如說有一些人特別重視量化你來質詢幾次你提案通過幾個但是質詢的內容有些不在乎啊就是你上台鬼扯他也沒有關係"},{"start":12481.505,"end":12507.012,"text":"那這個就是量化嘛所以一樣的道理機場的排名也是一樣但是不管怎麼樣他有排名他就一定有指標而這個指標不管怎麼樣總是我們能做好所有的指標都是高分這個對台灣的形象很好嘛對機場公司的績效也好嘛所以不管哪一個排名啦有些排名剛剛部長講那個叫做什麼Business Financial"},{"start":12507.532,"end":12509.433,"text":"總統現在是82明年再回到60幾有沒有辦法?"},{"start":12528.739,"end":12546.255,"text":"我們努力的目標不只有這樣子事實上我去年到公司來以後部長就有特別交代這個是機場公司今年的工作重點我們是朝進到前50名第一階段這個是一個很有價值的說法"},{"start":12546.815,"end":12548.076,"text":"這是一個你要努力的方向"},{"start":12564.85,"end":12586.294,"text":"另外部長我也想藉這個機會談機場這個臺中機場我想過去這8年當中雖然我沒有來交通委員會質詢但你為了臺中機場我們也多次開會甚至民防局也常常幾乎每一年都要去我辦公室好幾次所以我想藉這個機會也跟部長討論一下這個臺中機場在這個"},{"start":12594.283,"end":12603.927,"text":"2040年的整體規劃裡面我們有去提到第一個就是機場從目前的一年369萬人次到2040年目標是500萬人次"},{"start":12608.154,"end":12632.459,"text":"那500萬人次基本上他就要一樣就是要先前做好準備所以2040年的2040年的整體規劃其實也是為了這個目標要去做準備那這個其實我都支持我們過去也都針對40年目標甚至接下來45年的目標我們都有參與討論但是有幾點我還是要提醒第一個長期來看長期來看"},{"start":12634.96,"end":12647.159,"text":"未來因應500萬人次以上甚至目標可能我的期待就是1000萬人次那T3不是桃園的T3是台中的T3"},{"start":12650.84,"end":12670.011,"text":"這個這個這個要提早去進行規劃那但是事實上我們都知道吼那個圖這邊有吼部長你也都很清楚我過去啊十幾年來我就一直為這個這個機場的這個規劃我其實意見都一直很大吼因為我們老是把機場terminal1 terminal2縮在這個小小的這個角落"},{"start":12670.791,"end":12691.49,"text":"因為這個圖啊後面這個楊溪區這個更大因為這個圖沒有沒有顯示楊溪區但是呢我們老是在這一小塊裡面打轉那這一小塊裡面打轉我們知道他旁邊就就漢祥所以我們就會一個非常有趣的就是臺中機場就會呈現一個非常小塊的這個terminal1 terminal2然後接下來呢這個是這裡的"},{"start":12693.251,"end":12712.679,"text":"大概30倍或50倍啦就是吼這個可能要畫到牆壁外面才可以畫的進來那個叫楊溪區所以我過去就一直提議說可不可以往裡面移啦但客觀因素主觀因素很多包括空軍啊意見一大堆當時我叫漢強可不可以讓一些土地他也不肯"},{"start":12713.559,"end":12725.948,"text":"這些都是過去的限制好現在我們要做2040年的計劃已經做了2040年的計劃所以我會希望terminal3的位置千萬不要再跟1跟2去擠了啦"},{"start":12726.604,"end":12745.975,"text":"也就是說我們要將Terminal 3的位置再往西一點時間還很久啦2040年的計畫捏還十幾年啦所以應該要及早把這個計畫走出來啦當然不需要到我剛剛講的那四五十多大塊地但是"},{"start":12746.912,"end":12756.843,"text":"把Terminal 3往西移來以它做一個規劃這個應該可以好好的來思考未來台中機場從500萬300多變500多目標我希望達到1000萬人次"},{"start":12761.633,"end":12779.319,"text":"這個Terminal 3勢在必行你們也規劃了但是我覺得位置恐怕位置的配比上要重新來過那短期計畫裡面我想部長去年我也找你談過我們一起努力也拜訪了航空公司就是台中國際機場航班"},{"start":12785.9,"end":12802.55,"text":"總算至少啦因為看起來長榮跟長榮集團跟華航集團因為飛機的問題嘛沒有辦法短期增加但是至少我們爭取了新語我想3月底就要在台中來增加這個直飛現港直飛這個澳門"},{"start":12808.174,"end":12828.29,"text":"主席時間到了喔所以我們再繼續努力啦 把至少台中機場 譬如過去過去過去這個西校也很好飛沖繩飛琉球 然後中部人一直期待我們台中人很希望可以直飛日本那這些東西"},{"start":12830.051,"end":12856.391,"text":"因為這不是單要求交通部啦這個也要航空公司備有飛機、租有飛機然後他也願意配合所以我希望行政上交通部全力來促成然後積極的協調這個國航的幾個航空公司讓台中機場這個航線、航點、航班都能夠增加好不好?可以啦吼第一就是在過去談到包括新乙這個他的這個會在這個"},{"start":12858.012,"end":12860.673,"text":"主要是位置的調整啦,計畫我知道啦,位置的調整這個調整以後讓他"},{"start":12886.461,"end":12889.722,"text":"蔡委員發言完畢現在請徐副委員發言徐委員發言完畢之後我們處理臨時提案"},{"start":12915.369,"end":12915.93,"text":"王國材列席報告"},{"start":12938.164,"end":12965.554,"text":"過年期間這個國旅的這個定房率我想從這個媒體報導普遍來講都比以往偏低而且房價高的這個負面新聞非常非常的多那所以尤其墾丁這個首當其從定房率大概只有6成那針對這個現象我先請教部長對於這個整個恆春半島的觀光業的部分部長這邊有沒有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":12965.874,"end":12983.23,"text":"事實上這個更需要報告我等一下我再請那個署長補充事實上恆春半島的觀光是算臺灣裡面人家不管是國內跟國際都想要去的地方那的確在國境開放以後很多人會選擇出國我們現在出國大概是"},{"start":12985.232,"end":13007.421,"text":"出去比進來大概都一倍以上的確有這樣的狀況我想這邊第一個就是對於這些觀光景點包括這些禮數月的福島像我們也有這個一些這個景點的一些建設計畫我想這部分就是比如說過去跟屏東縣政府有很多合作在墾丁這邊的合作包括大盤貫等等的我們持續來加強"},{"start":13009.682,"end":13030.952,"text":"第2個就是說的確在一般民眾在選國旅或是國外他也是真的經過比較比如說包括皇價的課題還有包括光光的心理的部分我想說這部分我們一起來努力讓他的吸引力更提升這個更重要我想這個部分"},{"start":13031.312,"end":13057.4,"text":"部長因為根據我們調了一些統計資料發現就是一般的民眾對於我們南部跟東部這個房價普遍比中北部更高這個負面的訊息一直在媒體上不斷的露出然後我想對業者不盡公平因為我們整個南部的營運的成本以及物料的成本相對性比較高那這部分交通部怎麼樣來協助業者來做解決"},{"start":13059.521,"end":13083.849,"text":"我跟委員這個過去我講過一個但是大家會覺得哇這個是不是第一個就是我真的是瞭解說現在旅館業因為他離烘客人不多都是集中在建烘所以他的房價會在建烘比較高這也是他從經營成本跟收入的考量我們這個可以理解所以我們現在的想法就是說如果國際觀光客進來補離烘的部分"},{"start":13085.109,"end":13108.448,"text":"補完以後我想說也可以跟如果大家真的那時候都賺到錢錢提那為了要吸引更多人在國內旅遊那是不是我們再討論一下這個比如說這個旅館的這個費用有沒有調整的空間但是這個也不是全台灣一起調整應該是某一些就是說他的確有賺到錢那他應該回饋給消費者"},{"start":13109.389,"end":13109.549,"text":"部長我想"},{"start":13125.016,"end":13148.382,"text":"網絡上對這個所謂的一個國旅訂房率偏低也有幾個熱烈討論的一些話題那包含缺工、包含國際旅客不來、包含原物料上漲、包含國內景點沒有吸引力那我想這些的問題部裡面應該要正面對那這個部分是不是請交通部在兩個月之內提出一個完整的配套措施"},{"start":13149.102,"end":13167.011,"text":"好,我是請署長他跟所來他稍微稍微簡單跟你報告一下剛剛謝謝委員之前也特別拜會委員特別提到其實我們希望能夠加大力道把倡議我們南部的這個旅遊的亮點所以我們也希望能夠在今年我們把2024跟2025當作一個雙年的方式來推動我們的"},{"start":13171.834,"end":13173.234,"text":"我們希望能夠加大這個南部的這些亮點"},{"start":13200.68,"end":13227.17,"text":"那麼其次呢我們是希望說旅宿的部分因為雙東的部分啦屏東跟台東的部分確實都是假日比較會到我們的屏東跟台東所以我們怎麼樣去擴大這個非假日的部分的增加一些誘因所以我想說這些我們都是雙管齊下那我們也把新南向的部分"},{"start":13228.09,"end":13240.482,"text":"通過我們的小港機場也當作一個重點那我們希望能夠把這個擴大我們的這個東南亞能夠到我們的臺南高雄屏東做這樣的一個搭配好"},{"start":13241.301,"end":13263.312,"text":"我想部長跟署長我們一起來努力我想業者他們大家也都願意來配合只是說我們政府在整個配套上面還有一些政策上面怎麼樣再釋出更多的利多那這個業者這邊他們都願意來全力配合那另外我再請教一下部長其實除了屏東除了墾丁之外還有一個很重要的觀光景點叫做大鵬灣"},{"start":13264.392,"end":13264.732,"text":"我請署長跟您報告"},{"start":13284.565,"end":13284.725,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":13315.766,"end":13341.324,"text":"我們現在目前還是按照程序在走這點我大概要提醒一下部長跟署長其實大部分的問題在於說很多廠商願意來但是面對的是我們現在我們很多的公共設施包含水質跟基礎建設我們的處理的速度太慢了造成業者他們不敢來投資那針對這些問題我們部裡面有沒有什麼想法"},{"start":13341.964,"end":13366.993,"text":"這個部分我們已經專案在處理現在大幅改善了那現在主要是還是希望能夠更多的這個法令的鬆綁我們就是盡量都已經都開放了所以這個部分就等招商的部分來看這個投資的這個廠商他們的看法這部分還是請部委員還有署長這邊其他的水準我們都已經持續在做"},{"start":13368.753,"end":13393.082,"text":"另外針對我想屏東這個鐵路高架化並只有做到一部分目前做到潮州到林邊那還有一部分的鐵路高架並沒有完成那也最近幾年也陸陸續續發生很多的鐵路平交道的事故那我需要請教一下部長那究竟我們屏東縣的鐵路全線高架化什麼時候可以完成"},{"start":13399.076,"end":13423.61,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在研究把仿遙車站的部分納入南回平井路段改善的這個可行性研究裡面來去做探討現在主要是說本來也有談到比如說潮州以後要不要多高價但是這個金額非常的高所以現在大部分現在的重點就是仿遙大車站平台這個計畫就仿遙車站的前後來做一個處理目前"},{"start":13424.711,"end":13445.135,"text":"市長不要每次提到經費就講說南部人這個經費要很龐大我們聽不下去啦我們就是有在落水我們也是不能做二等國民啦因為真的每次遇到交通事故甚至等一個交通評價到的一個都要等很久的時間這不是我們民眾人要看到的情形先從黃寮車站的這個人比較多啦從黃寮車站先來處理"},{"start":13449.71,"end":13473.966,"text":"有沒有一個騎乘規劃現在是直接處理高價化高價化的部分仿寮車站高價化仿寮部分先處理對這個我在想我印象中因為7年前又停到而且這個仿寮站那邊會造成所謂的一個淹水的一個很嚴重的一個問題這應該是不是加快來進行他們那個可行性報告已經完成我們加快來審查先從仿寮開始好"},{"start":13476.109,"end":13495.263,"text":"那最後一個問題我想請教部長就是因為我們現在目前的鐵路建設都要拖很久的時間那我想未來有沒有可能走向一個所謂的民營的一個系統來考量就是所謂的一個鐵路路線跟車站的一個規劃的部分"},{"start":13496.418,"end":13516.554,"text":"目前是這樣因為那個我們先第一個是組織改革就台鐵變成現在業業要變成台鐵公司我想就由他先去經營就是說會不會走上民意化現在目前是還是以勾引化勾引公司的方式來處理那這種勾引公司也可以進到很多偏鄉的義務"},{"start":13517.315,"end":13518.235,"text":"許委員發言完畢,現在我們先處理臨時提案"},{"start":13546.107,"end":13575.693,"text":"本日既有6案請議事人員一併宣讀宣讀臨時提案提案1 建請中華電信檢視近5年內虛擬行動網路服務經營者合作廠商是否均符合並持有NCC相關電信執照以及查詢客戶各自外流情況相關補償措施及檢討報告請於兩週內提出提案人委員黃建豪等"},{"start":13576.974,"end":13601.406,"text":"提案2 交通部鐵道局於汐止舉辦基隆捷運公聽會時﹐足以代表汐止民眾對於板南線延伸的期待﹐請交通部折成相關單位於一個月之內﹐啟動臺北捷運板南線延伸汐止之可行性評估﹐以回應民意﹐便利民眾通勤生活密集往來﹐並滿足地方政府都市發展需求﹐提案委員"},{"start":13602.106,"end":13626.773,"text":"料先詳等提案3桃園機場捷運預估上需9列車直達6列普通車才能符合未來季節營運需求原要求交通部及相關單位1月2個月內競速與桃園市政府達成購車協議一例未來桃園機場捷運永續發展並提升旅客服務量能提案委員盧明哲等"},{"start":13627.293,"end":13653.938,"text":"提案4近年來常有貨運車行將貨車抵押貸款以致糾紛平船建請交通部公路局參考土地法第79條之一規定要求大貨車銬行契約及相關貸款行為因送至監理機關核備並由監理機關實質審查後通知車主以保障車主權益提案由委員林俊憲等"},{"start":13656.448,"end":13683.591,"text":"提案5在中央地方共同建設之前提下提案要求交通部於一個月內邀集新北桃園市府討論督促提出林口龜山輕軌建設可行性評估計畫作為整體計畫之開展並回復提案委員該建設計畫注目時間表展現中央與地方共同推動大眾運輸之積極態度提案人委員林佩祥等"},{"start":13684.906,"end":13713.437,"text":"提案6台中捷運南線延伸到南投縣為南投縣民期盼之重大交通建設亦為總統大選各陣營資重要主張原此行政面積交通部應盡數協助並早日合併台中捷運延伸至南投要求交通部與一個月內提出規劃其成並向本委員會報告以完善南投台中軌道交通米坪城鄉差距促進南投產業發展"},{"start":13714.577,"end":13716.98,"text":"第2委員由吳浩等宣布完畢"},{"start":13734.791,"end":13754.759,"text":"報告主席有關黃委員等提案的案由建議做以下的修改之因電信詐騙頻傳MVNO廠商若有涉入詐騙案件可能導致個資外流句號"},{"start":13755.939,"end":13781.311,"text":"請中華電信檢視近5年內 NVNO 虛擬行動網路服務經營者 合作廠商確認合作廠商是否均符合契約要求與NCC相關規範句號 NVNO若有違反規定 造成各自外洩 應擬拒"},{"start":13785.31,"end":13802.725,"text":"相關補償措施句號請中華電信於一個月內提出檢討報告那報告主席剛才有先跟這個黃委員等進行溝通獲得他的這個同意以上報告黃建豪委員在現場嘛來"},{"start":13805.487,"end":13806.908,"text":"請說坐著就可以坐著"},{"start":13828.114,"end":13829.635,"text":"中華電信只是電信三雄之一,另外兩雄不歸他管"},{"start":13855.056,"end":13876.702,"text":"好 那我們就按照這個修正文字通過了好 修正通過第二案 來請說明交通部請說明報告委員 有關料委員提出的提示條我們遵照辦理遵照辦理 那通過現在處理第三案 來交通部說明"},{"start":13877.301,"end":13903.431,"text":"我先向盧委員說明以後盧委員也同意做一些文字修正修正的部分是有關嚴要求交通局改成嚴要求交通部那另外競速與桃園市政府達成購車協議改成競速與桃園市政府積極協議以上那盧委員同意好修正通過現在處理第4案"},{"start":13905.317,"end":13929.487,"text":"第4案的部分已經有跟提案委員、鄰居縣委員這一個報告那做一些文字的修正就是倒數第二行就是這一個相關貸款行為應送至監理機關註記那後面的核被並由監理機關實施審查後這個刪除那改為就是註記然後次日通知契約車主"},{"start":13931.769,"end":13957.245,"text":"保障車主權益後面再加一句話就是一個月內完成作業流程規劃以上報告有跟林委員做過報告他接受嗎?接受了徐委員剛才林委員的提案有跟你討論嗎?沒問題那就修正通過接下來進行第5案"},{"start":13961.463,"end":13962.743,"text":"來,請交通部部長王國材列席報告業務概況來,紅衛員有沒有意見怎麼樣,剛剛講說"},{"start":13990.53,"end":14008.019,"text":"來可以多久時間可以好兩個月內嗎好兩個月開會了好不好我想我們也理解就是說有些時候這個交通軌道建設是地方政府這邊需要主動的一個提報但是就是說看到尤其是去年王國材部長來到我們林口地區來做這個交通"},{"start":14008.439,"end":14008.699,"text":"李委員﹖"},{"start":14034.476,"end":14061.995,"text":"謝謝主席這本席身為龜山的民意代表我們非常同意孟凱委員的提案那其實台灣市政府針對這樣子的輕軌路網的延伸應該也有一些初步的想法跟概念當然是交通建設知識體大尤其又是一個跨域的題目我們當然希望就是說中央在裡面也扮演積極的角色所以希望就是說盡快剛剛我們同意兩個月之內先來做一個大體討論嘛讓這個案子有具體的進度透過大眾運輸的方式改善林口龜山大台地塞車的問題以上謝謝"},{"start":14064.516,"end":14067.158,"text":"修正通過現在進行第6案來交通部說明"},{"start":14092.712,"end":14115.692,"text":"跟委員會報告剛才跟有委員說明以後依據有委員的意見修正文字原始行政院交通部因競速協助並早日核定台中捷運延伸至南投以南投縣政府提出南投縣軌道系統整體路網評估計畫後競速核定並"},{"start":14118.074,"end":14142.315,"text":"經費協助請交通部以2個月內提出規劃期程並向本委會提出書面報告來 余委員有沒有意見謝謝召委那補充一下因為身為南投選出來的民意代表那在這個部分的話我覺得不行要有宣誓的意義同時也必須要有實際的進度還在看到"},{"start":14142.875,"end":14143.135,"text":"修正通過"},{"start":14170.87,"end":14195.696,"text":"臨時提案處理完畢如有委員對上述提案補簽列入記錄並刊登公報現在請許智傑委員繼續發言許委員發言完畢之後我們中午會給大家吃飯的時間下午1點半繼續開會"},{"start":14201.579,"end":14219.346,"text":"那是在剛才宣布之前阿沒關係那我們就等紅委員阿我們就第一次的這種業務報告阿就特別再給紅委員發言完畢之後阿再來做休息吃飯請徐委員發言"},{"start":14226.829,"end":14231.172,"text":"謝謝趙偉,我們先請明堂局長請明堂局何局長何局長局長那個"},{"start":14255.933,"end":14277.726,"text":"我們桃園機場塞機我想局長應該很清楚我一個助理從那個雜放回來就耽擱了3個小時那桃園機場這個跑道維修也是事先就知道的事那這些事情為什麼不能事先防範呢所以呢我想"},{"start":14279.67,"end":14306.078,"text":"我們要替高雄再做一次的呼籲你提早規劃到我們高雄的航班應該就可以少掉這些問題為什麼不能處理呢對我先舉個例子你看我們高雄非日本非韓國的載客率都比桃園機場還高所以我們就覺得說為什麼那邊塞的鑰匙這邊沒有航班來"},{"start":14307.739,"end":14308.059,"text":"好,我們看下一頁"},{"start":14331.503,"end":14354.365,"text":"事實上交通部所做的事我們也要表示肯定就是說桃園到布拉格、高雄到新加坡、沖繩包括我們的高雄到茨城的航班高雄到靜岡我們現在是獨飛的航線那到首爾、金浦、越南、香港等有很多的廉價航空"},{"start":14356.627,"end":14381.278,"text":"包括新加坡沖繩這個也謝謝啦那我們也就是說其實高雄並不是沒有潛力那我們也希望說交通部多重視高雄民航局多重視高雄能夠讓我們高雄的班機可以盡快到位我們再看下一頁我們高雄爭取的航線我們先講就是321"},{"start":14383.308,"end":14388.313,"text":"九州的北海道的雜訪從去年講到現在還沒有完成"},{"start":14389.778,"end":14418.389,"text":"那九州熊本市上熊本市跟我們高雄市姐妹是我們兩個城市非常的好熊本市長也都到高雄兩三次了那結果都沒有直飛的航班那包括韓國的寄州照所以呢這個部分日韓的航線比我們高雄多8倍那我們的載客率又比桃園還要高所以是不是這個地方可以盡快來做一個調整讓我們高雄有更多的航班"},{"start":14419.709,"end":14439.043,"text":"當然就是馬祖蘭干他有困難度但是我們還是希望再要求美國洛杉磯事實上可以看到這個很多班次很多班次現在一個月好像300多班而且在增加中那為什麼一直都沒有機會去做一個大部分的調整"},{"start":14440.104,"end":14459.107,"text":"包括我們觀光局現在改成觀光署也新設了好幾個辦事處像我們的雅加達甚至釜山甚至孟買現在因為觀光局升格為觀光署那剩下很多的辦事處但是正在這些辦事處相對的航班都沒有調整"},{"start":14460.527,"end":14474.552,"text":"所以我也再一次的呼籲就是我們高雄飛印尼事實上這是可以直飛的不用每一次高雄人都一定要舟車勞頓到桃園那另外當然印度你看這個十幾億的人口因為我們竟然沒有直飛"},{"start":14476.152,"end":14502.28,"text":"當然這個部分是不是規劃桃園先行我們也不會說高雄先行這整個台灣做考量桃園先行這我們是可以考慮的但是總是要設計這樣子一個直飛的路線所以這個航線的規劃我們也知道現在就是我們的那個高雄機場也在改建當中所以我是不是可以具體的就是要求就是民航局"},{"start":14504.11,"end":14512.422,"text":"跟交通部是不是可以做一個盡快的調整以及不然你就替我們高雄的所有的宅客做一個書面報告、評估報告這樣子OK嗎?"},{"start":14516.43,"end":14542.043,"text":"想跟委員報告確實在高雄這邊的航班恢復其實根據我們的統計基本上如果扣除大陸然後還有日本因為他地勤運輸等等恢復比較慢有恢復的我都知道啦我現在就是說我看到這個塞機覺得心痛啦要怎麼樣去調整現在已經有調整了那我們也感謝啦我現在就是我們要求的像熊本、雜黃、濟州島"},{"start":14545.252,"end":14552.46,"text":"這個我們因應的盼竊嘛因應期盼嘛但是還那個看不到我們希望的成果"},{"start":14553.328,"end":14582.207,"text":"我想日本的部分就剛剛講他恢復的比較慢因為主要是受限於他們的地勤的代理的量能尤其熊本這一邊也是一樣那至於韓國東南亞其實已經都恢復到95%那當然...沒關係因為我時間有限你就...你的解釋我大概都聽過了之前也都解釋過了那能夠調配的就請民航局盡快跟華航或者是日本相關的地方就是盡快做調配"},{"start":14583.528,"end":14585.909,"text":"下一張,這個圖片是哪裡你知道嗎?臺灣機場,部長知道齁?"},{"start":14609.485,"end":14628.342,"text":"我們高雄好像沒有這一種那個膠囊旅館所以我要求的是現在高雄新航廈我們在那個重蓋嘛對不對我們就是辦辦施工嘛但是這個有沒有規劃進去桃園機場因為它是目前的規劃裡面規劃中"},{"start":14632.426,"end":14642.045,"text":"我們在檢討,因為桃園機場是24小時的機場是啦,24小時就比較不用住啊我們那個中間正好有那個消遣時間正好住進來正好啊"},{"start":14643.888,"end":14670.271,"text":"因為高雄比較多是區域線的啦他可能進來所以就是因為你航班規劃的不夠才會變成區域線嘛所以你如果規劃的所以我就要求是說那個部長有聽到啦就民航局做一個整體的我們的運量跟這些航班的調配那包括像這一種交通旅館現在都已經要新蓋為什麼不把它設計進去呢難道我們永遠就是要當作宵禁所以很多班次就不來所以就算了嗎"},{"start":14673.88,"end":14687.83,"text":"所以高雄過境江南旅館我覺得是必要的要把它一起思考進來然後就整個將來南北的調配我希望說棉行局跟交通部可以做一下規劃好不好我們現在請部長請王部長委員好部長都有聽到啦剛剛讓你休息一下主要就是說現在你起來就說好就好"},{"start":14704.332,"end":14731.199,"text":"就是說那個高雄有宵禁嘛那晚上太晚就睡覺了加上旅館隔天再走這樣有必要嘛對不對看起來是蠻合理的對啊很合理啊所以希望說民航局這個部分在航廈的部分尤其現在正在施工當中正在規劃嘛那趕快要把這個東西放進來不然以後還是沒有啊好我請他們研究啦對啊這個想法應該蠻好的啦希望說那個交通部跟民航局可以把它規劃進來"},{"start":14733.279,"end":14760.207,"text":"包括整個航班我們的運量跟航班希望那個一個月左右給我一份評估報告好不好好你們用心去評估啦不然每一次我不是說單點頭痛一頭腳痛一腳每次都講一個點你們做一個更詳細的完整的評估這樣子能夠讓高雄有更大的運量這些部分我們就提前把它做一個整體大量的評估好不好是好現在那其他可以先休息馬上部長"},{"start":14761.243,"end":14765.953,"text":"部長那個我們高雄的交通真的是也要看得很長遠啦那"},{"start":14768.513,"end":14794.955,"text":"我想到底像台北,台北其實它的高鐵它有三個核心就是台北車站、板橋車站跟南港車站它是東西跟包括原的縣區都有那我們高雄現在只有一個左營左營將來你在像看往後50年恐怕它的運量都會集中在左營那很可怕的那整個南高雄呢我覺得會稍微的會"},{"start":14797.642,"end":14799.863,"text":"因為我們原高雄市區人口眾多"},{"start":14826.363,"end":14842.194,"text":"那因為高雄市區我認為你至少要一或二個高鐵站再進來就像台北我說台北有三核心高雄現在只有一核心啦你這樣只有一核心那個感覺上你往後看50年我是覺得這樣子的思考是不夠的"},{"start":14843.38,"end":14859.605,"text":"現在這樣就是說如果要進入市區當然第一個是進來的這個施工期啦施工的對於市區的影響那當然我們也可以從很多新的工法比如說前頓工法等等來避免第二個是我覺得面臨最大是拆遷"},{"start":14861.485,"end":14887.96,"text":"我覺得拆遷這個課題就是說現在沒有進去這個不拆遷等進來拆遷對於這個市民有沒有辦法接受所以我覺得這個需要一個包括市政府跟可能當地市民溝通的一個過程這是一個大的概念就是說要做一個整體的統合的思考我們再看下一張我們盡快時間已經到了你看我們的台鐵新左營站跟台鐵藍紙站那"},{"start":14889.501,"end":14905.112,"text":"澆進去的這個紅線的捷運的部分南子產業園區的部分將來所有的台積電進駐跟他的所有的產業鏈進駐通通在這裡只靠一個捷運紅線你想一想到時候這邊會急死啊"},{"start":14907.424,"end":14927.027,"text":"所以就是說這裡是不是有機會我們台鐵既然我們的籃子百慕打這邊要立體化對不對是不是就是可以在解決籃子百慕打的問題的同時在中間再設一站籃子產業園區的台鐵站那我們鳳山人如果在"},{"start":14927.828,"end":14939.299,"text":"到台積電上班啦﹖或者是屏東人到台積電上班啦﹖他就可以直接坐台鐵﹖就直接坐到楠梓產業園去這邊下車﹖他就不用再轉車﹖那就差一個站﹖那有沒有可能這裡就說"},{"start":14941.921,"end":14963.741,"text":"來增加這個部分現在那個高雄市政府沒有補助一個可行性的經費給他他正在做這是王北營生男子的這樣的一個鐵路高架化的這個可行性研究這個由他們在可行性裡面評估是不是要增加通勤車站我想這部分我們會跟高雄市政府提出來以後我們跟他做一些討論"},{"start":14964.542,"end":14991.513,"text":"我想最後一個結論因為時間到了主席站起來了那個我們看一下就是說整個高雄市未來的所有的交通的規劃除了剛才我們講的飛機的航班跟評估希望部長跟民進黨局督促我們一起來努力規劃的更多更好之外那我們的鐵路就包括高鐵包括台鐵包括捷運我想這些東西"},{"start":14992.313,"end":15020.398,"text":"不要一段一段啦那比如說我再舉個例子就我們的高鐵假設是左營一個核心再加上高雄跟鳳山兩個就變成三個核心那如果剛剛局長那個部長提到就是說在這個設計規劃上也許人民會有不同的意見那有沒有可能配合我們現在捷運黃線要搭要蓋嘛對不對也是要挖地下嘛那我如果把高鐵接捷運黃線如果說我再接一個衛武營"},{"start":15021.994,"end":15051.714,"text":"假設啦你如果三核心高雄車站那邊有困難或風扇車站有困難那你就如果說左營直接交到衛委員這樣子就雙核心這樣子一個思考搭配現在黃線的思考是不是也有機會也就是說請部長做一下比較更通盤的考量啦那可能一個方案兩個方案三個方案是不是做一下也作為交通部做一下評估讓我們以高雄50年後的發展可以讓他走得更順暢走得更好"},{"start":15051.994,"end":15053.055,"text":"主席謝謝,麻煩請王國材部長"},{"start":15085.274,"end":15108.242,"text":"好部長好部長本期有注意到說侯友宜市長日前有講說有跟您溝通討論包括說巴黎輕軌及地方的建設是不是有見過面討論過那有見過面那目前不管是我們新北地區或說整個臺北地區其實有幾個重大公共建設我們也都需要持續的推動所以感謝剛剛我們這邊鐵道局承諾說兩個月內要召開這個相關的一個討論我想先請教"},{"start":15114.944,"end":15130.764,"text":"不管是巴黎、輕軌目前那一天討論跟侯友宜市長這邊講的怎麼樣巴黎、輕軌因為在國外的審查意見是認為淡海二期要先做所以我們現在是優先審查那個淡海二期淡海二期是什麼部分"},{"start":15136.026,"end":15160.044,"text":"藍海線二期藍海線二期跟巴黎輕軌其實是兩個不同的建設啊都是巴黎輕軌嗎會接過來會接過來如果你沒有接的話那過來沒辦法接所以第一部分我們先來處理這一個然後第二個我是覺得在整個巴黎或是這個藍海輕軌二期都很重要藍海線二期什麼時候可以評估確認"},{"start":15163.075,"end":15183.55,"text":"這也講了非常久了我們這個月會召開部裡面的審查委員會這月會召開部裡面的審查會議另外有泰坂輕軌因為武泰輕軌在之前行政院長也大動作的到我們地方去講說通過可行性評估但其實我們認為說更重要地方需求是泰坂輕軌泰山道板橋的泰坂輕軌"},{"start":15186.62,"end":15212.625,"text":"現在應該是可行性現在是新北市政府市府要送可行性研究要進來我們部內嘛是的,鐵道局已經召開過研商的會議那現在請新北市政府在做報告的修正當中他可行性提出來了啦我們給他一個初步意見比如說中間有談到一些支線有些委員是提到支線看他要不要能放放進考慮等等的我們給他一些意見讓他在修正報告中好"},{"start":15213.385,"end":15229.232,"text":"本席為什麼今天提到這麼重要就是不管是巴黎輕軌不管是泰坂輕軌不管是剛剛講的林口龜山輕軌或者是甚至我們現在講在國道上面有林口交流道、五谷交流道都已經在施工那本席也非常關心圓山交流道什麼時候施工"},{"start":15229.932,"end":15230.612,"text":"改善工程"},{"start":15260.212,"end":15282.099,"text":"媒體上有沒有看到你說那個陶淇毅的檢討沒有進去因為這個報告早就印好了所以您為我建議所以早就印好就不能改部長我建議你現在不要嬉皮笑臉因為這個是國人最影響最深我相信從早上到現在已經有非常多交通委員會委員在跟您要求"},{"start":15284.095,"end":15305.637,"text":"報告是禮拜三這個是上禮拜召委牌的專案報告但是大家國人都在看你第一天進來到國會拿出什麼樣的態度交通部用什麼樣的立場來去面對現在影響到國人那麼多問題的狀況而桃園機場在這一次我們講說為什麼大家會那麼的憤怒就是因為他不是一個天災啊"},{"start":15306.678,"end":15326.973,"text":"沒有天氣因素沒有因為說暴風雨沒有因為說大霧完完全全是一個人禍所以造成說調配不靈或是整個大塞機的狀況那這樣塞機的狀況不是我們事先預排的嗎是啊過去有沒有稅修過有啊那為什麼過去稅修不會發生這樣的情況"},{"start":15329.651,"end":15356.01,"text":"今天早上,對,各位委員報告我不是的意思,就是報告出來但是我有談到今天大部分的委員都在問這個問題我們也做了很多答覆我想請教,一個月內會有懲處的報告那有沒有包括有人要負責下台?有沒有政治責任?我們初步是這個由我們行政司做一個評估有沒有政治責任嗎?"},{"start":15357.54,"end":15382.61,"text":"我們現在在問的就是說完完全全這一個事件就是人禍因為沒有天氣沒有任何不好的情況如果今天有大霧大風沒有那預想就是沒有超前部署嘛那有沒有政治責任還是一個月後大家也忘了反正現在媒體有其他的焦點關心那塞車塞機也已經過了"},{"start":15384.639,"end":15409.015,"text":"有沒有政治責任有沒有人要負政治責任我想政治責任當然是政務官包括我都要負啦但是就是說這整個的流程也包括到很多這個相關的主管是不是在處理這件事情有警覺性這個事我想是不是您自己也講了嘛這一次最重要的就是因為大家沒有看重嘛沒有警覺嘛所以才造成那麼大問題嘛是不是會來懲處然後這個一個月內會跟大家做一個報告部長"},{"start":15415.285,"end":15428.722,"text":"你覺得你的懲處讓國人能夠接受嗎來我再問啦你如果說要這樣的話那我再請教這一次塞機事件造成的民眾航空公司損失有多大"},{"start":15430.485,"end":15456.588,"text":"現在大概有總共差不多快700架有大概47%是影響現在我現在請他們講我想問我們到現在也已經三天了我們有沒有去算過說這一次因為塞機事件不管是航班的調度不管是旅客的轉機沒有轉上不管是航空公司油料的問題到最後這一次的塞機事件影響有多大損失有多少"},{"start":15457.822,"end":15464.889,"text":"跟委員報告目前我們正在要跟航空公司來做統計那這些資料我們現在還沒有所以都還沒有還沒有統計出來所以都還沒有已經幾天了什麼時候會算出來"},{"start":15471.673,"end":15476.219,"text":"我們下個禮拜會跟航空公司做這個部分做詳細的討論目前已經在延長當中所以不覺得太慢了嗎"},{"start":15489.721,"end":15490.321,"text":"目前還沒有統計出來"},{"start":15521.235,"end":15535.097,"text":"為什麼本席會講說到底是麻木還是白木就是因為覺得在這件事情上面態度沒有展現出來你在事前沒有準備好 這不是第一次的稅休 沒有準備好態度"},{"start":15536.328,"end":15562.129,"text":"然後你現在所有人大家炸鍋之後到目前為止還不知道說到底損失了多少好像逃過新的鬼換言兩三天過了還有部長那天還可以下令是說我們稅收這是安全的問題嘛你可以下令說提早16個小時加速那我們國內也會問啊如果說可以提早16個小時那當初明顯就是有放寬嘛那如果說沒有放寬那你提早16個小時有沒有安全的疑慮"},{"start":15563.257,"end":15579.869,"text":"所以怎麼講都認為說在這件事情上面沒有展現出專業變成是民怨沸騰的時候趕快大官再出來然後用人為的狀況來去做一個調配那現在後續這一個事件到底還有影響多廣多深也不知道"},{"start":15580.916,"end":15594.353,"text":"反正認定的心態就是今天來被罵一罵媒體兩三天之後不報道了然後一個月後我們就看到網站上面出來一個新聞稿或出來一個公告有人寄大過有人寄警告"},{"start":15595.593,"end":15614.176,"text":"就這樣沒有任何政治責任這是不是就是現在政府要面對的問題的處理態度看起來就是啊我們現在已經徹底在做檢討跟改善嘛也徹底檢討改善是你嘴巴講但是國內沒有感受到我到目前為止我問的這些問題你們都答不出來"},{"start":15615.177,"end":15638.457,"text":"這叫什麼檢討?這叫什麼改善?不是答不出來我們現在有時間讓他們跟比如說陪長的部分要跟航空公司來討論嘛然後標準座位程序他們也在下禮拜會把整個標準座位程序做一個優化提出來我想這部分都有一個時間那我跟委員報告也不是說我們這件事情把它今天當一天這個是很嚴肅的事情"},{"start":15638.797,"end":15663.715,"text":"當然很嚴肅所以這是為什麼本席來講就是說到底是麻木還是白木如果說這件事情真的那麼嚴肅我說實在今天你業務報告裡面多一句話多兩句話認為是說真的沒有我們還有做不出的地方要檢討要改進我常常講交通問題沒有最好只有更好就是因為大家都是用路人大家都是在交通運具上面會使用到的人沒有誰比較大"},{"start":15665.011,"end":15691.221,"text":"你會用飛機委員會用飛機你會用馬路委員會用馬路所以交通問題大家一起面對解決但是你們通篇的業務報告不管是口頭報告、書面報告都是只有好棒棒也不會這樣你這樣子國人要怎麼信任你說實在部長主席已經站起來了我很誠摯的講在整個民進黨政府部會裡面我覺得你還算是有專業的人"},{"start":15692.796,"end":15718.102,"text":"很誠摯地講我覺得你還算是有肩膀的人如果比起其他民怨來講民怨部會來講但是本期真的不希望這件事情會變成是壓垮你最後一根稻草我也希望民進黨政府有多一些有一點專業的人有一點肩膀的人有一點想要平衡地方發展發展建設的人而不是都充斥著酬庸或是充斥著不專業的一個部會首長"},{"start":15719.079,"end":15738.786,"text":"所以這是本席給你最大的一個忠告好好把這件事情處理好並且我們國人都在看到底你這件事情要怎麼善後我這樣好不好就是全部處理完我們會做一個對外的報告請王部長跟紅委員接下來可以再私下對話好謝謝紅委員發言完畢"},{"start":15746.141,"end":15748.934,"text":"好,我們現在休息,吃飯,下午1點半繼續開會"},{"start":15758.592,"end":15780.06,"text":"議員會議員會議"},{"start":15784.404,"end":15784.584,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":15802.626,"end":15802.886,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":15824.002,"end":15843.592,"text":"議員會議員議員會議"},{"start":15845.084,"end":15845.684,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":15874.579,"end":15875.62,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":15916.826,"end":15923.489,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":15930.947,"end":15955.077,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":15963.088,"end":15971.113,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":15993.167,"end":16006.377,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16008.951,"end":16009.712,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16037.602,"end":16063.865,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":16064.707,"end":16065.268,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16075.162,"end":16105.162,"text":"議員會議員會議"},{"start":16107.605,"end":16108.466,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16146.694,"end":16154.577,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16161.493,"end":16173.936,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":18023.902,"end":18035.357,"text":"好繼續開會現在請鐘嘉斌委員發言來慢慢來哈"},{"start":18037.319,"end":18055.356,"text":"主席、加農委員先進、列席的政府基本法官員、會長、公眾夥伴、媒體記者女士先生那麼有請我們交通部王部長請王部長還有機場規劃應該是哪一個?行政司嗎?民航局民航局何局長何局長好"},{"start":18057.922,"end":18077.55,"text":"市長好,在上週我和高雄的邱志偉委員我們開了一個記者會就是說高雄準備好的煤它的高是高低的高熊是大黑熊的熊你知道那個熊是指哪一個地方嗎?熊本沒有錯高雄"},{"start":18078.717,"end":18102.157,"text":"跟高雄跟熊本這兩個城際交通因著台積電將會成為一個重要的結盟那麼台積電進駐熊本除了貨之外還有人家屬對不對?台積電很多員工都要出到熊本去啊那你認為小港機場準備好了沒有?我們當然硬體準備好只是說航線現在慢慢在恢復中所以你認為小港機場的輸運人士未來在應付這個是足夠的囉?"},{"start":18103.786,"end":18132.156,"text":"目前過,因為現在還沒有完全恢復還沒有完全恢復,沒有恢復是需求還沒有恢復啊我說機場的運能,運能準備好了沒?好來我們看一下,你慢慢想往下看齁這個在疫情兩年期間的你說有沒有恢復?國航、國籍航空公司你認為華航跟長榮在疫情間是賠本還是賺錢?賺錢賺錢靠什麼賺錢?貨運靠貨運沒有錯華航在一年他的貨運是他的客運的20倍"},{"start":18133.783,"end":18162.91,"text":"他的貨運和他的11年大概是大概將近5倍我們看長榮長榮在這兩年期間下一頁長榮呢他在10年的時候呢他的貨運是客運的10倍他的11年隔年貨運是客運的將近也8、9倍所以這說明了什麼說明了在疫情之後可能這個情況目前我們國航的貨運跟客運的占比是不是貨運還多客運一些些"},{"start":18166.534,"end":18190.294,"text":"我們來看一下桃園機場來往下桃園各機場的客貨運的統計客運的部分在全台灣的機場當中桃園的運能佔了快一半53%超過一半貨運呢幾乎都在桃園那表示什麼台灣的航空貨運出口如果沒有桃園就本完了你同不同意"},{"start":18191.85,"end":18196.014,"text":"台灣台積電半導體產業你覺得重心有沒有往南移?你認為目前台灣的晶片生產北部多還南部多?"},{"start":18209.236,"end":18232.017,"text":"應該是慢慢往南移啊慢慢往南移我告訴你我早上問過國發會主委他說目前南科的產能產量已經超過了竹科了那表示什麼半導體晶片的出口他們是往哪個機場送你覺得他現在應該是桃園機場往桃園機場送有3、4個小時在高速公路上所以當桃園機場發生這個問題我們往下看"},{"start":18234.636,"end":18234.656,"text":"對嘛!"},{"start":18246.86,"end":18273.192,"text":"所以現在桃園塞機不是影響到客運而已是連我們國家重要的護國神山臺積電臺灣的半導體產業在南部半壁江山他往北送送不出去還要再卡在高速公路上來我們請教一個問題那小港經常做什麼小港經常有什麼問題我們往下看你說運能運量還沒回來那是需求運能有沒有足夠小港經常是不是有這些阻礙"},{"start":18275.637,"end":18299.842,"text":"有宵禁嗎?宵禁晚上可以飛貨運嗎?不行貨運是24小時不停的?全世界的貨運主要機場都是24小時有沒有軍民抗議?有啊有嗎?附地如果我要做貨運我要更多的倉儲轉運喔客人可以住在高雄市中心的觀光大飯店你這些貨要在機場附近盤轉是不是要更大的附地?那小港有辦法嗎?"},{"start":18301.658,"end":18315.053,"text":"小港過去有一個戶地,就以前有一個航空服務員區的一個戶地在那個地方,過去有啊過去有,你們有沒有開始在研究啦?怎麼去解決半導體產業晶片出口的需求,我們往下看"},{"start":18315.998,"end":18316.018,"text":"為什麼?"},{"start":18341.529,"end":18362.786,"text":"現在的這種還品還有找到一個適合的機場非常不容易那如果台灣只剩下陶機在負責半導體機面的出口那台灣不是更慘嗎半導體產業對台灣這麼重要他在疫情期間整個台灣我們去年一個人可以領6000塊你知道台積電貢獻多少嗎?台積電貢獻的營業稅、營所稅加起來超過1000億啊我們每個人領6000去年花了多少億?花1300億"},{"start":18370.672,"end":18395.501,"text":"講得比較不客氣一點去年大概6千塊的這個紅包等於是靠台積電出口金錢賺來的這麼重要一個產業他如果按只依靠一個桃園機場做貨運還要讓給客運作為一張部長你覺得有沒有必要趕快運模出入現在就是小港機場的定位啦我沒有跟你談小機場我說怎麼解決這個需求你要在小港機場擴建還另外找貨運機場都是選項我們看最後一個"},{"start":18397.062,"end":18420.011,"text":"半導體從南部出口的需求評估這個我已經問過國發會了他一個月內會給我未來5到10年台灣的半導體晶片出口從哪裡出去需要多少的量他會算出來這樣如果要做什麼用力取得周邊的產業規劃和大眾運輸的接駁這是交通部的工作你可以如果國發會負責產業出口的需求評估評估出來了你可以負責貨運機場的運能規劃嗎"},{"start":18422.977,"end":18441.986,"text":"可以不可以?如果國保有這個需求,交通部就要負責這個機場運燃的規劃?對,這可以研究好,那一個月後他出來了,是不是就請你們來負責規劃?如果有這個需求?我們研究來做一個規劃報告好,謝謝什麼時候可以給?"},{"start":18443.871,"end":18447.172,"text":"總委員發言完畢現在請謝依鳳委員發言主席好,我想要請王部長"},{"start":18478.827,"end":18503.846,"text":"王部長午安我們去年才通過道路交通安全基本法我們希望可以做到我們的交通事故臨死亡這樣子一個願景但是你們也知道就是我們這一次在彰化有三個家福兒童誠信姐弟他們在路口的時候發生了交通的事故"},{"start":18504.466,"end":18519.781,"text":"那我們知道說現在我們國內的所有的標線號誌的話的那個設置都是根據道路交通的是什麼法?交通標誌標線號誌設置規則所以統一的嗎?是不是?對"},{"start":18526.568,"end":18553.633,"text":"但是我們全國的路、路寬甚至中央分隔島的距離以及每一個路口都是不一樣的那統一的這樣子的一個法規在各縣市怎麼樣的適用我看到了我們彰化有非常多的路口不只是潮話縣、標縣等等畫出來的這個比例都是"},{"start":18554.773,"end":18564.036,"text":"不一而且讓大家不知道怎麼遵循在這個情況下我們是不是應該要進行要請專案小組進行改善"},{"start":18564.977,"end":18589.689,"text":"我們現在在這樣 這個委員提到一個重要課題就是標誌、標線、號誌、設置規則是就每一個設置要怎麼做但是我們就是把這個規則給地方去做整體的設計但是它整體設計有時候會格格不入比如說我們要求設什麼標誌牌結果它在某個路口設滿了這個標誌牌的意思所以我們現在請易賢手再做一個指引"},{"start":18590.749,"end":18611.014,"text":"這是請預言所嗎?對,它會有一個再更細一點的就是說參考標誌標籤號誌社會規則是,你們是不是應該要有一個標準的一個範圍然後甚至對於不同的路寬不同的分隔島以及不同的路口要怎麼樣子做相關的規劃?"},{"start":18612.334,"end":18631.471,"text":"他指引就是所謂的組合,就是我們看標誌、號誌、全部組合起來應該怎麼做,所以他會有很多的案例什麼時候可以出來?我們首長他們正在做這個跟委員報告,我們今年大概就會先就一般性的這個比較普遍的道路的這種狀況,我們來先產生這個所謂的"},{"start":18635.695,"end":18653.616,"text":"我們現在不是就運用了道路交通標誌、標線、號誌、設置、規則嗎?那我們講的就是在一般道路的其他的太陽嘛,是不是?因為各種路況的太陽不一嘛,是不是?"},{"start":18654.737,"end":18674.194,"text":"對跟委員報告設置規則裡面對單項的標誌比如說樹線的標誌或是這個紅綠燈的號誌這個實質怎麼去做這個紅綠燈怎麼做設置他有基本的這個所謂的設置的一些原則性的規定可是道路的實際的環境每一個道路的狀況都不一樣"},{"start":18674.634,"end":18702.879,"text":"那到時候我們要在實際設置的時候要怎麼去運用這個規則裡面每一個單項的標誌、標籤跟號誌去做組合把它放到這個每一個現場的道路環境才能夠達到保障交通安全跟提升交通對,那什麼時候可以給對,我就說我們今年今年會先有一個這個這個今年是什麼時候就是年底我們會有一個初步要到年底啊那到年底前還有多少的交通事故會發生"},{"start":18704.189,"end":18704.329,"text":"法定法規"},{"start":18721.816,"end":18745.698,"text":"你知道公務人員你自己就是公務人員出身的公務人員都不想要違背法規嘛那在法規的這個限定下他們就沒有就是說在依據法規的限定下那就變成說好像我們還是我們都要舉辦各縣市的這樣子相關的路口的這個相關的協調會是不是"},{"start":18746.579,"end":18748.426,"text":"你就要把每一個縣市每一個縣市檢討嗎?不然以後要怎麼處理呢?"},{"start":18753.649,"end":18780.355,"text":"第一個就是這個指引出來當然那個速度越快越好啦比如說他有些入口的太陽比如說你像彰化這一個這個協交的入口要怎麼處理這個太陽趕快出來我是覺得他做差不多就有一些就可以劃步了慢慢當然我覺得年底太太慢了啦什麼時候可以出來我覺得陸陸續續啊因為他們也要做一個有一點時間但是我覺得陸陸續續的成果可以給地方政府來參考"},{"start":18781.075,"end":18782.959,"text":"你這樣子還不積極你應該要給個時間幾個月內嘛對不對你520之前可不可以做"},{"start":18790.225,"end":18817.099,"text":"我跟委員報告是我們當然這個整個因為標誌標証號誌他實際在各種不同的道路環境之下他有很多種的設置的一個狀況那我們我想我剛才報告的就是我想我們只要這個有討論有成果我們就可以及時提供給這個我們的地方政府來做這個運用"},{"start":18818.16,"end":18835.316,"text":"他們做好的這些範例齁我就覺得就直接趕快給地方政府就陸續給這樣啦那臨底可能是完成但是就陸續給這樣好不好所以就是隨時都要對如果我們經過研究過程中只要有我會來追你喔對還有喔像我我"},{"start":18836.397,"end":18837.939,"text":"我相信在全國裏面還是有非常多的路段是這樣的情況有一邊"},{"start":18853.834,"end":18855.576,"text":"政府無法全責不清的地方是不是?"},{"start":18871.608,"end":18889.139,"text":"的確,速限有沒有全部一致,當然一致是比較容易遵循,但是它有的,比如說有的地方會到這個比如說到學校,它就降到50,然後到哪一個地方它覺得入口的這個衝突比較多會降,它會按照"},{"start":18890.26,"end":18890.28,"text":"國道號誌"},{"start":18907.998,"end":18933.078,"text":"是不是也應該要只是也應該要統一或者是能夠給予更多的就是說延續性的這個就是說到達地就像我們某一個地方可能下交通道以後就是到了可能例如我們在北斗交通道下去就是西州的引道嘛引道下去是竹塘這樣子你能不能提供多一點的交通資訊呢"},{"start":18933.979,"end":18954.51,"text":"目前你說是講國道嗎對對對國道應該是算沒關係我們順便資料請他提供一個回答趙局長跟謝委員來做回報是他們有他的辦法對我覺得應該要提供多一點的交通指引讓所有的"},{"start":18955.33,"end":18956.03,"text":"現在請高金素美委員發言"},{"start":18986.547,"end":18987.249,"text":"王國材列席報告"},{"start":18992.793,"end":19014.39,"text":"好,2022年的時候7月20日交通部你們發布了露營場管理要點我們原本以為既有的露營場的合法化工作就會順利地展開了可是一年半過去露營場合法化卻成了我們所有部落族人的噩夢我們來看一下根據官網署的統計目前全台灣露營場總共有1845處其中有1667處是沒有合法的"},{"start":19020.154,"end":19035.281,"text":"根據我的了解目前申請的案件總共是800件但是屬於既有的廠家卻只有307件其他的493件都是新增的露營廠而我們整合起來800件的申請案部長你知道有幾家通過了嗎?"},{"start":19037.681,"end":19065.783,"text":"不要浪費我時間只有一家只有一家而且這一家是新設立的露營場不是既有的喔聽好當初我們制定露營場的合法化要點最重要的就是輔導既有的業者來合法可是您看到我的數據一年半過去了既有業者不僅他的申請意願非常的低到現在沒有任何一家通過所以這件事情是恍然的"},{"start":19066.343,"end":19085.224,"text":"那我們的族人的噩夢是什麼呢?因為露營場的設立不可以位於19項環境敏感區其中有一項叫做土石流淺室溪的範圍部長土石流產生的要件是什麼?我們都知道土砂坡度大還要有水"},{"start":19086.005,"end":19106.879,"text":"所以農業部因此公布的土石流潛水溪流的範圍是用防災用的對不對他主要是在風險潛水分級可能會影響到範圍之內然後以防災工作之用我要請教部長了颱風警戒發布的時候你會去露營嗎?不會吧?"},{"start":19108.941,"end":19120.053,"text":"入營業者敢收這些客人嗎?也不會吧?所以根據水保署公告的土石流潛勢溪流你知道全台有多少個嗎?有1732條"},{"start":19123.277,"end":19140.036,"text":"他的含括包括什麼風景區、休閒農業區、學校、寺廟、派出所就連山山國家風景區的獅山遊客中心他也位於土石流潛勢溪流範圍之內所以並沒有禁縣建"},{"start":19144.381,"end":19158.357,"text":"可是根據非都市土地使用管制規則第6條附表1的規定我們的露營場卻不可以位於土石流潛勢溪流範圍的請問一下我們的境線依據"},{"start":19161.56,"end":19175.628,"text":"為何是毫無根據的嘛所以呢結果會造成我們現在族人一個很大的困擾是什麼嗎而且是已經發生的事情了就因為我們現在的住家位於土石流淺市溪流範圍那麼他同時也是經營露營場現在卻被我們的縣市政府因為這樣子的你們所謂的要開放露營而被開罰了"},{"start":19187.975,"end":19209.731,"text":"這顯然不合理也不合法的規定造成我們族人真的是很啞口無言所以是不是應該協助他們救濟這是我今天的問題第二點我要再建議部長針對19項環境敏感區不可以設立露營場的規定我希望一週內"},{"start":19211.292,"end":19237.846,"text":"也希望你們來通知國土署來檢討修正非都市土地使用管制規則第6條附表1的規定。部長你同意嗎?的確我們希望,錄影室現在很普遍,尤其在山地也非常普遍但是你談到現在最大問題的確就是這19項環境敏感地區限制它能夠合法的"},{"start":19239.335,"end":19241.997,"text":"國土署．國土署．國土署．國土署．國土署．國土署．國土署．國土署．國土署．國土署．"},{"start":19259.048,"end":19286.835,"text":"同時還要輔導我們露營場的工作因為交通部你們應該可以分階段來辦理特別是你應該也清楚5月1號縣市國土計畫他就有公告實施其中很重要的部分是原住民族的部落只要是在105年5月1號前他既有的住宅未來都會合法同時土地會變更為建地"},{"start":19288.175,"end":19308.828,"text":"而原住民的土地也會同步來制定原住民族土地管制規則然後我們來進行建管的工作那因為我們很多的族人露營場都是用自宅作為管理看一下這個照片經營的是無橫露營區就好像這個照片一樣像這種僅有住宅跟預測的露營場我覺得交通部你們應該立刻要跟人民會成立輔導平台"},{"start":19314.231,"end":19341.91,"text":"優先來協助處理他們所以我今天的三個總結是第一個要協助族人救濟現在已經要被開罰的人怎麼樣來協助他們第二個依照露營場的樣態然後分階段的來輔導並且要優先輔導無痕露營區第三個交通部和園民會你們必須要成立一個合作平台來輔導原住民經營的露營場可不可以"},{"start":19342.47,"end":19359.233,"text":"我想說我們就跟他我看他們下禮拜做一個開會來討論就的確現在福島的困境在尤其原住民區他們是希望趕快合法來經營這件事對既有的嘛"},{"start":19360.054,"end":19360.294,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":19382.779,"end":19403.836,"text":"我們需要把現在原住民地區的樣態讓他們都清楚因為本席跑了全台灣所有的原鄉地區我非常清楚知道他們的困境在哪裡 可以嗎好 我們會通知委員辦公室好 謝謝部長 謝謝好 高金委員發言完畢現在請王宏威委員發言"},{"start":19412.998,"end":19414.501,"text":"王國材列席報告業務概況．"},{"start":19427.979,"end":19448.212,"text":"昨天我揭露我們桃機公司這個員工提供給我的澄清函提到我們鄭文燦副院長陸續安插他當年在桃園市的時候的一些相關的員工進入了我們桃機公司"},{"start":19449.096,"end":19476.256,"text":"因為這兩天大家的聚焦都是在最近我們機場因為稅休然後造成的整個大塞機那當然淘氣公司也受到很多的責難那我特別要講如果一家公司他動不動就有人事酬庸動不動就有特定的人事把自己人塞進公司裡面當然會造成員工的士氣低落"},{"start":19477.321,"end":19488.02,"text":"那麼當淘氣公司出事的時候這些員工他心裡也非常非常的難受那我昨天披露之後呢今天媒體有問您"},{"start":19489.97,"end":19513.436,"text":"問王部長：部長說沒有這回事那我先想請教我們的董事長在你任內有沒有曾經有員工跟你反映這樣的事情你是否也像本席一樣接受過陶基公司這樣的陳秦涵就是直接的他非常清楚"},{"start":19514.156,"end":19525.958,"text":"哪些人被塞進來哪些人在哪些單位他寫得清清楚楚你是否曾經在你任內收過類似的陳情函"},{"start":19527.368,"end":19544.961,"text":"跟委員報告我是去年的3月份到陶器公司那從到任到陶器公司沒有這樣的一個情況從來沒有是沒有我看到昨天媒體的報導那部長你也從來沒有從陶器公司告訴你這個事情沒有完全沒有"},{"start":19545.942,"end":19560.592,"text":"那麼待會結束之後我會把這個陳秦涵同樣的我會請我們交通部的府會給我們部長也會給我們陶基公司的董事長請你們看一下"},{"start":19562.353,"end":19576.342,"text":"這個雖不稱為所謂的自製血淚但是裡面我直接來念進來民進黨派人寄生逃機胃口越來越大站的缺也越來越高桃園機場會這麼爛長久以來的陋習就是基層員工不停地忍受關說裡面也有講"},{"start":19587.244,"end":19604.089,"text":"他講到有兩位他說安插進來還沒有通過試用期然後甚至之前任職在什麼地方然後直言不會自己是靠高層關說進入陶瓊行為毫不羞恥"},{"start":19605.094,"end":19618.375,"text":"好,兩人靠關說空降桃園機場弄得全機場人靜皆知,廠商都知道現在食髓滋味還要塞更多人我桃機員工就是建民民進黨人才是人"},{"start":19619.73,"end":19648.013,"text":"所以這樣的問題如果第一層員工都這樣的不滿跟憤怒那未來你們怎麼帶領淘氣公司呢?我們國家的門面我們現在談到桃園機場的排名直直落最危勢的下降我不要說您說您8月就是董事長去年對不對去年整個都降到82名但是我並不認為這所有的過錯全部放在你一個人身上啦"},{"start":19648.88,"end":19661.516,"text":"前面就很多是愁央的啊董事長都愁庸了欸對不對桃園副市長然後跑去當董事長然後做的亂七八糟最後離開不是這樣子嗎還要繼續塞人"},{"start":19664.512,"end":19691.024,"text":"夠了吧所以我請部長和董事長能夠正視這件事情不要因為媒體說沒有沒有沒有我們都沒有酬庸如果你們是這樣的話以後這些員工士氣低落不說他們搞不好會爆更多的料如果你們願意去正視這些問題那我覺得他們會覺得還有希望另外請教部長"},{"start":19692.796,"end":19703.688,"text":"昨天我們工程會的主委他提到我們桃園機場第三航站的預算要再修正到1300億元"},{"start":19706.965,"end":19728.986,"text":"這個是在我們第二次修正計畫從原來最早746.89億一路向上修正到956.8億元這是第二次修正計畫現在又要修正主要提高到1300億我想請問一下我們的修正計畫定案了嗎?送行政院了嗎?確定了嗎?"},{"start":19732.397,"end":19734.379,"text":"現在進入第三次修正計畫是嗎?"},{"start":19753.3,"end":19781.483,"text":"目前我們第三次修正計畫公司這邊已經找你出來所以現在還沒有報布然後昨天公共工程委員會的主委就說要提高到1300億元那是怎麼樣呢先斬後奏嗎還沒有報布然後公共工程委員會就對外說了所以部長就要認賬囉認賬然後就要送到立法院立法院就給你認賬再繼續追加嗎"},{"start":19783.601,"end":19784.301,"text":"預計什麼時候會報佈?什麼時候會送院?"},{"start":19812.297,"end":19837.562,"text":"這個要經過部裏面審查然後到所議院裏面最後應該還是會經過公共城委員會的審查所以後面還有一些程序看起來公共城委員會主委都幫你宣布啦另外請教你這第三次修正計畫除了總經費大幅提高比原來幾乎是翻倍成長之外請問一下在相關的年限完工的時間會不會再修正我們是不是還要遲遲的等"},{"start":19840.731,"end":19853.346,"text":"目前我們還是以115年第3回合下完工為目標現在目前還是這樣以那個為目標對就是他還沒有講出說有時程修正的事所以讓我們總經理再補充說明一下"},{"start":19853.996,"end":19870.287,"text":"是跟委員報告我們第三行下的相關工程都已經完成發包那目前我們跟廠商的工程契約是到115年的12月左右是完工的期限所以不是全部都發包了嗎那為什麼還要再漲這麼多呢"},{"start":19872.288,"end":19899.665,"text":"價格為什麼還要再增加都已經發包了嗎對因為發包的話我們在當時我們的發包裡面我們在契約裡面都有物價指數條款那因為如果物條變動太大那廠商如果沒有這個機制可能廠商連做都做不下去所以基本上這個部分是等於讓廠商所以意思是說頭洗下去了現在就受制於廠商不然說我不跟你做下去了又不知道延到民國幾年好啦因為時間的有限"},{"start":19902.066,"end":19922.119,"text":"所以我先只確定說你預計下個月是下個月要報布是吧還是這個月這個月這個月中這個月中會報布那到時候我再跟你們要資料知道整個第三次修正計畫的全貌謝謝王委員發言完畢現在請李博義委員發言"},{"start":19940.699,"end":19940.719,"text":"麥克風"},{"start":19943.345,"end":19944.865,"text":"請交通部部長王國材列席報告業務概況．"},{"start":19968.786,"end":19997.037,"text":"台積電到日本熊本那日本政府給了台積電有第一個場一千億的補助第二個場聽說是一千五百億台幣的補助那這個不算在日本政府他投入相關的這個交通建設包含水那包含道路那包含他們的鐵路的這些建設不包含喔好我們用一千億這個標準來看台積電即將到高雄南梓設廠"},{"start":19998.197,"end":20020.146,"text":"高雄男子社場面臨非常多重大的這些交通議題必須要趕快去開闢我剛才在國科會這邊已經針對我們這個男子交流道引道的部分希望國科會盡速加速那國科會這邊也給予正面的承諾那國科會這邊下來之後那希望交通部相關的這些作業也要趕快這78億的這個交流道引道"},{"start":20021.667,"end":20037.44,"text":"接下來就是有兩條包含台鐵的立體化包含高雄捷運子線的未來我想在這個交通委員會這邊來跟部裡面來做這個討論台鐵立體化他未來其實台積電會選擇在高雄"},{"start":20039.682,"end":20061.439,"text":"那對於這個高階的這些製程有一個想像就是未來針對台南跟高雄園區會有大量的交通運輸以前喔以前從高雄到台南這個交流道比如說仁德交流道好了大概從中正交流道到仁德交流道的往返40分鐘現在沒有一個小時到不了"},{"start":20062.139,"end":20079.84,"text":"再加上未來的這些大量的運輸車輛我想是絕對不夠的所以我們需要這個交流道引道之外那台鐵未來他也可能可以對開到台積電廠區的對開車也就是從台南的園區到高雄的園區可能可以規劃這個相關的區間車所以"},{"start":20082.423,"end":20100.849,"text":"我們目前台鐵立體化的這個可信性評估裡面市政府有建議在台積電的園區外面多設兩個站一個站是在台積電園區外面那另外一個站會是在部長你這邊可不可以做一個說明"},{"start":20101.849,"end":20127.558,"text":"我跟委員報告現在大概兩個第一個現階段現階段因為那個油廠國小紅線油廠國小是就在台積電設廠那附近所以短期我們的建議是短期跟中期短期就是他從油廠國小搭到橋頭站橋頭站是跟鐵路共站他就到南科的火車站這短期那第二個就是這個鐵路"},{"start":20130.459,"end":20142.803,"text":"現在是談高價高價跟立體化的價格我那天有在院長的這個施政報告裡面有提出來大概差了400億以上大概差了3倍到4倍高價大概是160現在估起來是160億如果是地下化的話可能會超過500億到600億之間"},{"start":20152.006,"end":20170.392,"text":"所以李委員所提的第二階段就是現在我們補助高雄市政府在做高價北延的這個可行性他提出來現在是兩個站這兩個站都會服務到這一個我們台積電的這個位置那我們是想這樣就是說他高價的時候就把這兩個站放進去是"},{"start":20171.152,"end":20191.596,"text":"﹗"},{"start":20191.596,"end":20208.439,"text":"﹗"},{"start":20209.16,"end":20217.371,"text":"半導體區間車 疏解掉高雄跟臺南之間非常大的交通流量 這個也請鐵道局這邊早一點來做這個相關的規劃接下來捷運紫線 捷運紫線"},{"start":20226.343,"end":20240.131,"text":"連接捷運黃線高雄醫學院接到高雄榮總進入左營高鐵從左營高鐵進入右艙高鐵附近還是我們的台積電廠區進入右艙到高雄大學連接橋頭科學園區"},{"start":20240.811,"end":20258.78,"text":"．"},{"start":20258.94,"end":20273.881,"text":"我想高雄的捷運在因為以前在縣市合併以前這個紅橘兩線然後包括黃線等等的現在北邊這個整個廊帶就是說直線的沿線的這些廊帶都發展的也非常密集"},{"start":20274.662,"end":20274.822,"text":"華航總經理"},{"start":20293.684,"end":20308.274,"text":"呃,你邊聽我邊講齁,邊走我邊講齁,在這個疫情...董事長,你好在疫情開始之前齁,那當然華航也經過很辛苦的疫情的過程齁但我們也知道,其實華航我們的貨運還是賺錢"},{"start":20311.775,"end":20327.315,"text":"我們也知道很多貨運的客機還沒改回,客運的客機可能營利為主之外,高雄機場其實有非常大的聲音,南部鄉親有非常大的聲音,就是我們的飛機永遠都是321,永遠都是小飛機"},{"start":20328.436,"end":20349.361,"text":"甚至我也在期間過程裡面也透過當時的我們現在的召委當然我還擔任市議員的時候也透過當我們現在的召委李昆哲委員跟華航反映過很多次那我們的雙走道飛機進駐小港機場來服務南部鄉親的這個計畫有沒有改變什麼事要落實請董事長來做一個回應"},{"start":20349.801,"end":20350.642,"text":"三百330現在桃園沒有在飛嗎?"},{"start":20365.945,"end":20366.125,"text":"王國材列席報告"},{"start":20390.858,"end":20393.04,"text":"李委員發言完畢現在請楊瓊英委員發言請王部長"},{"start":20423.483,"end":20448.092,"text":"我們國醫中心交流道GA74的閘道那這個我要特別感謝施工單位我們持續在關心這個進度而且也暫許那因為呢這個案子呢我們從開始規劃到完成這個發包到施工過程當中我們地方的民眾非常的期待"},{"start":20448.692,"end":20468.482,"text":"那相對的在施工的時候呢因為塞車、堵車那也讓民眾有些不方便但是我們台中的民眾是超水準的知道這個重要工程大家全力配合那非常的期待那請問到目前為止我們的進度"},{"start":20471.593,"end":20495.062,"text":"目前進度應該到9393左右了對那我們什麼時候完工告訴我們是五月那可不可以這個時間來確認因為我們現在講是說他工程完之後我們要經過一些勘驗原則上應該我們朝下五月底以前五月底就可以正式前採通車我們盡量努力啦那努力是什麼意思是會不會達到"},{"start":20496.275,"end":20509.691,"text":"因為這裡面好到5月的話現在目前還有一些小的地方要處理他可能有一些收尾我在猜應該不會超過6月初,不會超過6月初你身邊那個大將是超厲害的"},{"start":20513.696,"end":20525.652,"text":"他講五月底你給他講六月初五月底、五月三十一跟六月一號因為我們地方很期待所以我也希望照著這個時程來規劃讓他完成因為這個對於我們地方上來講很重要"},{"start":20531.48,"end":20549.057,"text":"我們現在國道是要接過來然後再接74線所有回堵都是在我們的崇德路、中山路過來就是我們的中青路然後過來連廣福路現在也都斷了大家會往前一個地方所以尤其是我們中青交流道"},{"start":20550.519,"end":20563.939,"text":"這個會做這個工程有地方我們地方事生大家都認識到這個工程務必要做對我們地方來講很重要所以我也期勉我們也就在這個5月底的時間可以如期把它完成"},{"start":20564.74,"end":20582.109,"text":"當然這個爐子你身邊這個大將我是給予按個讚真的是非常感謝帶著這個施工團隊非常的用心而且在整個的實用跟美觀方面的公路來講是我們是給予肯定所以謝謝那接下來那個"},{"start":20585.35,"end":20610.596,"text":"部長我們那個清泉崗的航線本來說叫做三條線那時候我們去會刊的時候我們的旅遊業、觀光業我們相關的就因為這個三條線讓我們傷腦筋那當然我們也不免苛責啦不能苛責就是說我們趕快怎麼樣增加兩個議題第一個到金門的航線一味難求我們可以再怎麼樣去增加"},{"start":20611.596,"end":20611.936,"text":"請做說明"},{"start":20631.616,"end":20632.557,"text":"你再把那個調整的"},{"start":20651.684,"end":20658.988,"text":"國際航線部門現在因為那個新宇他現在想要以這裡為home base所以他現在有很多,他現在3月很多就是包機開始飛了,現在應該是原來14個航點在今年會到13是吧?"},{"start":20672.858,"end":20673.5,"text":"有哪些行點?沖繩、還有哪裡?對"},{"start":20684.915,"end":20700.724,"text":"定期航線的話就有河內胡志明港澳還有這個南京線港然後後續那個新宇他也會現在先用包機飛高松日本高松那大概他現在已經在申請定期航線了什麼時候可以開始預計在下半年應該可以轉定期"},{"start":20702.405,"end":20703.286,"text":"新宇、飛也會開澳門的航線"},{"start":20718.214,"end":20740.135,"text":"然後再包含這個因為中部地區我們去會館的時候考察我們大家都知道這個是最好的點我們也希望中進中出帶動地方的繁榮而且他是迫切需要尤其你的縣港那個還是不夠啦需求度太大其他還有一些仁川、釜山、冀州等等還有很多包機"},{"start":20740.936,"end":20757.473,"text":"你把那個是包機不是定行你把包機跟定行那詳細資料再給委員來本期再跟你討論一個議題也就是兒童的安全我們知道呢2018年開始你說因為周濱的學校附近部長那麼我們線數是這個30線在30公里"},{"start":20762.017,"end":20781.994,"text":"那2022年到2023年你們有提了一個校園周邊交通安全的改善計畫那到目前為止本市了解是收了一百來個案子那大概是大概六成左右那但是我們最近也發現兒童被撞啊在這個路上很難過"},{"start":20782.995,"end":20799.946,"text":"因為兒童是大家的寶貝啊尤其一個家庭發生了這個事情這個是真的是整個家庭就亂掉所以本席要跟你討論的也就是說針對於校園周邊人行空間改善你們雖然有一個參考指引"},{"start":20800.626,"end":20823.021,"text":"但是呢到目前為止有了錢那麼現在所收的案子大概只有6成但是明明白白我們的社會上面還是有這些問題要怎麼樣去加強來執行之呢在學校的附近學校的那個附近我們既然就已經有限數是30那你要怎麼樣去落實請教部長"},{"start":20824.222,"end":20845.169,"text":"第一個,校園周邊在過去兩年做的確因為學校做大改變有它的困難事實上這個也是地方往上申請的然後我們現在接下來我們從今年開始有改善人形設施的計畫它是四年四百億"},{"start":20846.529,"end":20854.594,"text":"今年各縣市政府總共799處 這個也要做一些改善部長你有升級版表示這個問題的重要性但是你第1期只有6層所以你要警惕要怎麼樣去落實因為我就要給你一個數字"},{"start":20869.682,"end":20882.786,"text":"一就是這個12歲以下的兒童呢因為交通傷亡的有4.8萬人那更在112名的這個孩童就當神仙了我們很難過所以換句話說你從2023年跟"},{"start":20886.147,"end":20903.456,"text":"比起前4年它是不減反增那在這樣的一個情況之下每日的平均傷亡的從26人到32人所以它是增加的你這個方案本席具體要求你必須要去落實"},{"start":20904.477,"end":20925.201,"text":"怎麼樣去宣導怎麼樣去落實才能夠保障我們兒童的安全啊尤其在校園的周邊啊謝謝楊委員我們時間已經超過兩分鐘時間已經超過兩分鐘一地方也要申請啦當然所以你們要去請啊好不好一起加油好不好謝謝謝謝楊委員發言完畢現在請鄭天才委員發言"},{"start":20948.761,"end":20950.482,"text":"主席、各位委員、有請部長請部長"},{"start":20983.186,"end":20995.931,"text":"好今天先跟這個部長談這個蘇花庵臺九縣蘇花庵的計畫這個環境部在112年12月6號將這個環境環評的意見送給這個交通部這個部分你們預計什麼時候可以再送"},{"start":21013.402,"end":21013.642,"text":"花東鐵路雙軌化"},{"start":21038.719,"end":21067.06,"text":"這個已經110年4月8日合定那現在在進行中這個進行中的一個過程按照你們的報告有提到整個現在你完工的一段嘛望榮到南平那一段完工"},{"start":21068.956,"end":21094.614,"text":"你們現在施工的時候有沒有考量到是不是從花蓮往台東往資本這樣的一個方向我的建議因為這個時間很長怎麼樣能夠從花蓮到往南的一個情況之下先完成了就可以就雙軌了那樣的一個規劃"},{"start":21096.018,"end":21116.714,"text":"分段通車的意思是吧對啊對啊對啊就能夠往這個方向現在是朝這方面沒錯就是坐完一段就會通對對這樣的話就可以但是如果你們中間是中間譬如說以現在來講啊汪榮到南屏那是中間以就花蓮來講啊花蓮來講是中間啊怎麼樣再從花蓮車站"},{"start":21121.465,"end":21125.851,"text":"目前是這樣沒錯﹖我請局長再幫你補充﹖做完就是馬上增加容量就通了這樣﹖"},{"start":21138.429,"end":21158.595,"text":"對,但是如果你現在是望榮到南平,但是南平到花蓮之間還沒有啊,那就很難去做到花蓮之間現在還涉及到我知道那個高架,吉安高架因為配合高架的部分會最後啦,就是配合高架的部分,因為它起程相對會比較長"},{"start":21159.975,"end":21183.634,"text":"那其他部分我們整個這個雙軌部分會分4個階段來做陸續的調整我知道這個部分你原來的一個規劃看看能不能做調整就是說這樣的進行就會比較因為一定是要從臺北到花蓮花蓮再往南所以這個部分你們盡量往這個方向我們再來檢討"},{"start":21185.857,"end":21201.1,"text":"這是這個我們花東鐵路雙軌化的部分那我們這個剛有談到我們接著談這個花東塊花東塊這個是部長在去年10月19號報導的一個就是說蘇花安"},{"start":21217.11,"end":21218.052,"text":"花東快明年2月"},{"start":21225.595,"end":21252.552,"text":"完成可行性評估當初有這樣說嗎花東快現在應該是8月因為花東快花聯的說明會辦完了因為3月份在辦台東的說明會那台東說明會辦完以後因為要收集大家的意見再做一些整理所以預計是8月份我們會完成這個可行性報告完成現在花聯的說明會辦完現在正"},{"start":21255.194,"end":21278.544,"text":"做台東的說明會結束以後會把意見加到我們的可行性報告裡面然後往再來做環評跟下一階段的宗教是我的建議就是說花東快的可行性評估要加快8月8月要加快因為我們就從我們就講台台灣好了台灣"},{"start":21280.612,"end":21290.979,"text":"以花東快跟這個蘇花我們就講蘇花公路或是說台北回鐵路或者是說這個南回鐵路"},{"start":21292.383,"end":21292.403,"text":"好"},{"start":21322.401,"end":21347.853,"text":"我們先看這個就請那個杜董事長杜董事長我在談的是臺北臺北市、新北市、桃園、臺中、臺南、高雄、宜蘭、新竹、苗栗、彰化地方政府的敬老卡原住民都降低55歲"},{"start":21349.775,"end":21376.278,"text":"但是他們去買火車票的時候就沒有辦法用那個監牢卡還看是原住民拿身分證出來這樣不一致全國不一致尤其是北部做捷運OK做公車OK然後去坐七間車台鐵的七間車就不OK所以這個部分"},{"start":21378.967,"end":21405.881,"text":"每次就是說中央的法律還沒改其實齁我們看這個鐵路運送規則第9條法定優待票他就要講法定優待票地方政府的敬老卡也是法定啊他也是定了他的規則因為法定並沒有講法律啦法定優待票所以有空間啊"},{"start":21407.216,"end":21407.796,"text":"謝謝政委員發言完畢現在"},{"start":21435.935,"end":21449.324,"text":"請牛許廷委員發言好 謝謝主席 這個交通部長有請 謝謝請王部長你好你好來 慢慢來 沒關係"},{"start":21468.113,"end":21495.735,"text":"部長辛苦了大家都關心交通的議題本期當然也是不例外所以今天來提出交通部的一些相關的政策的意見希望跟部長做一些探討我們先從個案開始說起部長這個1200是好政策很多選區的選民我們桃園是通勤的重鎮往返雙北的人數的數量是非常多那1200上任之後其實大家覺得說這個看到了政府在改善交通問題的誠意"},{"start":21496.796,"end":21515.792,"text":"可是我們不希望這樣子的一個政策為德不足有了大額的票價補貼之後你相關的配套措施要跟著上來1200上路之後大家重新開始期待用國道客運去替代這個私家車來做北逃的這個通勤但是上路之後"},{"start":21516.292,"end":21538.3,"text":"我們各個國道客運的營運狀況卻非常的糟糕這個我舉一個例子比如說南崁的5203A過去由長榮的客運來做營運那其實他去年他就已經說要退場了大家商量他待死延死最後延到今年的2月那2月底之後我們就再進一步去要求後面的配套措施那也跟部裡面就做了溝通跟商量"},{"start":21539.801,"end":21564.794,"text":"講說國光、亞通還有後來有多一家義姐會來接手嘛對不對我們本來很期待我們也很願意相信交通部跟公路局解決這個問題的能力我們也很高興的跟鄉親宣布說這個帶死的狀況暫時可以緩解大家的燃眉之急可是這個現實總是很骨感因為3月1號開始馬上出現說好的48班直接變成38班而且離峰不是離峰更正昏峰從"},{"start":21566.215,"end":21589.967,"text":"台北回來的時候6點40下一班進來是8點40這個是完全沒有辦法輸運這個雙北跟南侃之間通勤的人流那我們辦公室在處理這個個案的時候要求提出說明那速度其實是有一點慢的我要提醒部長這一部分要上緊發條然後我們也要求如果你真的基於班次調度一些困難的話你總要預先跟人民做溝通吧"},{"start":21590.487,"end":21607.49,"text":"你不能說你很辛苦我知道你很辛苦可是人民如果沒有辦法第一時間知道政策的這個變化或者是執行的疏漏的時候那就會出現民怨嘛要不是我們辦公室當初去安排然後要求你當天早上去跟那些排隊的通勤族說明這個民怨會更大"},{"start":21608.07,"end":21622.128,"text":"我們不希望接下來會一直在處理這樣的事情請部理上緊發條那不只是5203A的問題5203A的問題今天開始看起來是恢復正常48班到位這一點是至少有一點改善可是問題是5203A完了之後換5250A5250B出現狀況開始拖班"},{"start":21627.194,"end":21655.533,"text":"為什麼脫班呢後來也是問了一大圈問了半天才知道啊原來這個什麼司機離職啊其實也都是老問題欸你不能說這個地方的問題處理完了下個地方火又燒起來不能一直在處理個案的問題啦而且不只是往返與南侃往返桃園也一樣比如說9005、9023其實都是大排長龍很多人在用可是業者也都興趣缺缺那有些這個班制的調度也不是很精準比如說這個9005的回程"},{"start":21657.595,"end":21673.887,"text":"市府轉運站發車下一站就是港前差一站而已可是在港前的桃園鄉親回家排隊等最久那天寒流不到10度在寒風中等兩個半小時才能上車這個其實是車班調度有更細膩可以改善的地方"},{"start":21675.608,"end":21698.073,"text":"9023、90005在去的時候也一樣住在桃園經國轉運站我住轉運站旁邊捏卻因為離發車中心太遠首站變末站結果住轉運站最近的人竟然上不了車凡此種種都表示我們國道客運在桃園的這個執行細節有非常多可以修改的地方這些個案我希望交通部趕快解決部長可以提出解決方案嗎?好"},{"start":21698.593,"end":21722.293,"text":"我做一個原則的那個就基本上第一個不中斷這是最基本的基本不中斷一定要的嗎那的確在國道客運他因為有這個後來來接手待死不穩定這個現象我這個也有事實上我跟這個局長談過很多次這個是因為他窮盡這個力量去把這個保持這樣的服務品質"},{"start":21723.354,"end":21738.29,"text":"那剛才談的這幾個個案的問題我是不是請那個局長回答一下我時間有些很盡快好不好個案跟同案 個案的部分的話就是說如果說他的這個公司的班制或是車輛駕駛的這個部分因為有些部分或許我們找其他的公司或是遊覽車也來協助啦"},{"start":21739.611,"end":21766.257,"text":"我現在意思就是這樣如果說有班次接不上路線可以調整我們就調整有一些班次比如說9005有一些可以從港前發我覺得這是可以思考的有一些可以從京國轉運站發其實就可以解決調度班次的問題那班次不足的部分比如說5250A如果他繼續拖班那就找其他業者一起來經營我覺得也都OK好不好這些東西我剛剛提到我們會後討論好不好通案我們也有處理通案的話就是說增加價值通案我現在要講來"},{"start":21768.437,"end":21789.64,"text":"通案問題三個方向,我覺得我們這個任期應該會討論這件事,討論滿久的從個案看通案,如果通案的問題沒有解決,那個案的問題將層出不窮通案的問題三個,我相信也是老生常談,第一個叫營運困境我們17年沒有檢討運價票價,18項成本固定在那個地方那什麼時候會有第一次的調整,請部長回答"},{"start":21791.369,"end":21816.965,"text":"票價的部分嗎?票價他現在已經提出來全年會提了嘛 什麼時候審過 大家很關心這個事啦全年會在我們公路局這邊已經審了 給他意見 他修正回來了 那我們這邊會報交通部對啊報部 所以我問部長大概什麼時候會調整完 因為這個關乎客運業者會不會願不願意回頭進場 那個公路局送上來 我們盡快來核准有沒有具體的時間表 一個月兩個月或什麼樣 可以嗎"},{"start":21819.946,"end":21836.122,"text":"因為競速啦,因為他還沒送到我這邊齁,啊我們內部也有一個審查的程序齁沒關係,現在請公路局會後再來跟我做報告,跟我確認時間表齁第二個,司機缺員的問題啊當然你們有提出一些相關的計畫但從前年開始,前年喔,到今年的1月目標4800,只來了1414,達成率不到30%"},{"start":21839.685,"end":21854.291,"text":"那表示這個計畫還有可以精進跟修改的地方另外也表示不只是薪資的問題客運業者的營運上班的工作環境是不好的能不能針對工作環境的優化跟改善去修改部分的規則這個我也希望交通部做一個通盤檢討可以嗎"},{"start":21856.092,"end":21874.7,"text":"這個一樣請公路局會後做報告第三個我要提一個概念我們為了要讓路線調度的更順暢這個也不只是限於國道客運市區公車也需要公車的駐車場站但這個駐車場站現在切身未明現在都市計畫裡面它到底是屬於什麼樣的用地我希望交通部跟內政部做一個會商"},{"start":21875.76,"end":21897.035,"text":"讓不管是中央政府或是地方政府可以有明確的調度場站讓多一點的場站讓路線調度靈活去提升客運的品質這一部分我也希望交通部會後提供相關的規劃跟檢討方向,可以嗎?好,這一部分你願意牽涉都市計畫跟地方政府做對,總要開始好不好,我們花一點時間做好不好麻煩這件事麻煩部長,我們會持續追蹤謝謝你喔,謝謝也謝謝主席,謝謝謝謝你委員發言完畢現在請林立軍委員"},{"start":21903.94,"end":21910.943,"text":"林立軍委員．林立軍委員不在．現在請羅志強委員發言主席有請部長請部長羅委員好部長好"},{"start":21934.24,"end":21953.99,"text":"請問您跟現在所有閣員都算是看守內閣沒錯吧沒錯對不對所以你會不會做到520之後你自己也不知道嗎不曉得對但是倒是行政院我們的陳建仁院長已經多次表示他不會留任所以他只會做到520而已我想請教您"},{"start":21955.629,"end":21978.674,"text":"您宣布6月1日以後禁止出團到大陸去我想請教6月1日以後是誰是哪個政府要上任新的政府、新的總統、新的院長都上來可能新的部長會上來那我想問您你這個6月1日的這個禁團令有沒有跟我們的賴總統當選人商量過"},{"start":21981.607,"end":22007.457,"text":"是他同意的還是他指示的還是跟他溝通的從來沒有跟賴副總統但是我們的是現在的這個團隊裡面的跨部會討論的結果所以完全沒跟我們賴總統當選人討論過這個事我不知道那個他們其他的有沒有跟他報告但是我這邊沒有跟副總統報告過部長"},{"start":22009.895,"end":22021.082,"text":"你都說你是看守那個結果進團這麼重要的事情你不用跟新政府的總統未來的總統打招呼嗎我們院長也說過啊看守政府不做"},{"start":22029.898,"end":22057.29,"text":"會去傷害我們未來政府決策權的一個重大決策這個也沒有傷害啊就是說至少在520那你起碼要跟他溝通吧可是現在我們的行政流程沒有說部長所以我跟你講我幫賴副總統賴總統來跟您說啦今天你許了一個政策的開始日期不是你這看守內閣的時候那你為什麼不講說是今天5月19號呢"},{"start":22059.668,"end":22077.867,"text":"為什麼不5月19日以後進團呢你5月19日進團我還覺得說你稍微有尬質一點啊你還在你任內進團啊那為什麼是6月1日很奇怪6月1日又不是你當家也不是陳建仁當家甚至不是蔡英文當家結果你今天竟然跟我講"},{"start":22079.088,"end":22101.561,"text":"你根本不打算理賴賴清德總統當選人你不是太不尊重賴清德了不是那個羅委員你你也在政府當過你第一個不尊重賴清德第二個我跟你講現在流程沒有跟副總統我要告訴你喔我要告訴你第二個我要跟您說你去年11月宣布要解禁大陸旅遊的禁團令嘛對不對是是確定很多業者當時也不敢自信啦坦白講"},{"start":22106.601,"end":22125.943,"text":"但是想一想政府說嘛一言九鼎嘛 對不對軍無戏言、官無戏言、部長無戏言啊 對不對就相信你啦結果才3個月業者開始染客你現在跟我講說6月1號你要進團相信你的都是笨蛋"},{"start":22127.236,"end":22142.966,"text":"相信你的旅行業者都是笨蛋你不要跟我講他們未來部長你不會不知道旅行社運作的狀況吧他們要開始籌備整個包括下行銷、下聯繫、下據點、下預算三個月只是組團吶"},{"start":22148.991,"end":22176.171,"text":"前期溝通跟籌備工作不只3個月吧所以我告訴你你選前政策開支票選後政策翻臉你教大家可以如何適從呢?部長我在請教您齁疫情之前對啊暫時啦暫時啦我知道你今天有講什麼善意表現部長我告訴你你講的話沒人相信的兩個原因你知道為什麼嗎?"},{"start":22177.725,"end":22191.013,"text":"已經騙了一次嘛人可以被騙第一次可以被騙第二次嗎我都過去一陣子相信你已經跟我騙他一次更重要的是部長你現在承諾有任何意義嗎"},{"start":22193.274,"end":22202.086,"text":"有意義嗎?你520之後是你嗎?你連賴清德你都不重視、不尊重!也不跟他商量、不跟他報告!6月1日以後!6月1日!我問你嘛!我問你嘛!我問你嘛!"},{"start":22211.424,"end":22228.38,"text":"這個看他的賽意表現絕併要不要開團你有跟賴清德總統當選商量過嗎我已經講過很多次齁你有跟賴清德總統當選商量過嗎不是我現沒有嘛我的老闆是院長沒有嘛總統啊我們一般的程序沒有在跟副總統報告這件事那未來總統是誰啊"},{"start":22230.001,"end":22238.687,"text":"所以你的善意表現就可以開團也是你空口白話啊因為你沒有跟未來的總統商量啊未來的院長是誰提名?誰提名?而未來的部長是誰決定?對啊"},{"start":22247.233,"end":22270.746,"text":"那你現在講6月1號看善意表現不是也是空口白話嗎我在跟部長請教你知道在疫情之前兩岸開放探親之後開始可以觀光以後你知道政府什麼時候曾經明令出團到大陸去有沒有過探親開放以後"},{"start":22274.864,"end":22298.356,"text":"民令禁止出團到大陸很好 你知道為什麼沒有嗎疫情期間也不是民令禁止啊疫情期間是有疫情的特殊考量啊是協調業者啊那我想請問你為什麼過去不做這件事啊你說兩岸的惡意那我想請問兩岸惡意也不是今天有惡意啊"},{"start":22299.485,"end":22314.329,"text":"因為我們中華民國憲法保障人民有遷徙的自由你光我跟你講遷徙的自由也包括今天我們旅行的自由旅行的形態也是遷徙自由之一我告訴你你破壞了過去"},{"start":22318.752,"end":22330.419,"text":"很多年我們基本尊重我們的台灣人民旅行的、行事的自由起碼你剛剛講過去沒有,現在只有你的任內有嘛謝謝您,以上好,謝謝董委員發言完畢現在請陳雪生委員陳雪生委員陳雪生委員不在現在請陳冠廷委員發言"},{"start":22355.273,"end":22356.114,"text":"王國材列席報告"},{"start":22379.349,"end":22404.008,"text":"交通部爭取民雄的鐵路高架化那2023年的5月行政院已經核定總合規劃案那已經在2023年12月舉辦動土典禮那據本席的瞭解整個民雄鐵路高架化是預計在民國120年的通車這個時程有沒有變動沒有變動那我們先期工程上次已經動工了我們就讓到現在的這個期程來進行"},{"start":22405.482,"end":22432.1,"text":"謝謝部長因為這是一個重大交通建設那我想不僅是民雄鄉我們嘉義縣的是最大的鄉鎮那很多人都在期待所以說去年12月動土的部分那是鐵路高架化的先期工程那主要是用民雄車站的臨時月台臨時軌是工程範圍那用地權是屬於台鐵公司的用地範圍內不涉及用地徵收那這個先期工程的部分預計何時完成"},{"start":22434.326,"end":22438.321,"text":"工程部我們在今年中會完成今年中會完成嗎?謝謝"},{"start":22439.878,"end":22465.399,"text":"因為這是我們重大建設那民眾很關心他的進程包含地方的這些首長還有一些縣市我們的這個嘉義縣的一些議員都有在關注這件事情那我們是希望說他能夠盡快盡速如此的完成那我們更關心的一個部分就是說鐵路高架工程跟高架車站工程的部分那預計他這個施工要幾年啊"},{"start":22466.929,"end":22488.698,"text":"全部嗎?對這整個我們預計8年後通車預計8年後通車那其實在這個期間點我們有點擔心就是說街區的交通問題要怎麼樣疏導?你們有沒有預先跟地方政府做協調?我想這部我們在施工計畫之前都會報縣政府完成相關的交通維持的這些計畫也會跟地方做相關的說明跟溝通"},{"start":22489.338,"end":22503.272,"text":"包含鄉跟村都會有直接的這些聯繫因為我們不希望有這個交通的黑暗期我們現在工程處跟民從鄉就有在做相關的一些施工上的溝通跟說明"},{"start":22504.013,"end":22525.036,"text":"其實因為在任何的重大交通建設的這個新建的過程中那交通的黑暗期會導致很大的民眾的反彈所以這部分除了溝通之外包含這個說明會跟民眾說何時影響範圍影響時間那預計的這個替代方案是什麼我希望交通部的官員都能夠"},{"start":22525.737,"end":22543.006,"text":"更加積極的方式來去說明給我們的民眾聽因為民眾一方面是期待有重大建設但一方面也不希望說在這個建設的這個時程中影響到他們的通學通勤所以這個部分你們有信心能夠把衝擊降到最低嗎?"},{"start":22544.239,"end":22572.279,"text":"跟委員報告我們在施工前一定會跟地方來做這樣的溝通跟說明也會把所有的衝擊呢按照施工的最小的必要性來做影響的最小層面的一個影響非常感謝我們希望這個一定要做好因為民眾的反應是會比較我們是非常重視的我們會來努力那體育高架之後高架橋下面的空間有沒有作為什麼樣的具體規劃"},{"start":22574.055,"end":22600.247,"text":"目前的話照過去的一般做法是會按跟地方政府來做溝通那現在有關民雄的這個高架地下的部分還沒有進行相關的溝通跟規劃好那我希望說未來交通部可以先來我們辦公室來跟我們分享一下你們的看法那我們其實是有一些想法那其實不是只有交通部而已可能會需要跨部會來一起去合作把那個釋出來的空間做最有效的運用"},{"start":22601.267,"end":22623.059,"text":"接下來我們要提到的是梅山纜車部長現在應該知道我們太平雲梯是我們臺灣海拔最高的景觀吊橋那遊客人數也是蠻多的我們也非常歡迎遊客來到我們太平地區可是交通的負荷也蠻大的現在很明顯的根據我們一些地方的這一些民意代表都有反映已經超過162線的負荷"},{"start":22624.62,"end":22644.421,"text":"所以有地方的鄉親是建議可以交通部來去設置梅山纜車那他的路線可以從公園到老街那用纜車來去串聯太平雲梯除了是做交通上面的緩解之外也有觀光上面的意義我想針對相關的建制案我們之前有請交通部來去做評估不知道交通部現在評估的狀況如何"},{"start":22649.764,"end":22668.297,"text":"跟委員報告一下,確實陳委員有邀集我們相關單位,那這個部分是我們阿里山管理處,確實洪處長也參與。那麼我們參與以後呢,我們其實因為還是要了解一下嘉義縣政府的看法。"},{"start":22670.699,"end":22683.929,"text":"時間有限我們就直接針對我們這個人本交通的設施來做質詢部長你現在滿意國內的行人穿越線和屁股島的設置的狀況嗎?不滿意,非常不滿意部長你們認為25公尺長的行人穿越線大概需要幾秒鐘走完?"},{"start":22685.615,"end":22714.264,"text":"二十五公尺應該是沒關係大概的數字就好了應該是三十秒吧那你們通常是設置幾秒鐘給新年總那我之所以問這個問題是因為其實包含我自己有些時候都會連我們這種甚至還是中年的這個狀況都不見得能夠走完那如果帶我的小朋友年輕人不是中年年輕人中年人我其實已經有數數了"},{"start":22716.203,"end":22719.307,"text":"我們希望不管是交通的方式還是以人本交通為主那盡量是能夠配合這個新人的部分"},{"start":22734.224,"end":22761.057,"text":"那其他的部分未來我們也會請交通部來針對人本交通設施包含這一個新能穿越道中的這個庇護島的設施我們是希望能夠有一些改進的一些做法那不要讓我們這邊背上新能地域的罵名那時間到這邊所以還是希望這個部分請交通部現在我們有四年四百億就會做這個設施那我覺得嘉義縣政府這邊可以盡量來申請我們的協助我們會"},{"start":22762.157,"end":22788.934,"text":"告知下一線組請他們盡量申請謝謝陳委員現在請林月琴委員發言有請我們的交通部部長請王部長"},{"start":22795.372,"end":22808.684,"text":"部長,台灣在少子化的年代,我覺得當孩子越生越少的時候,一個孩子都不能少。我也因為這樣子,一直很長期關心我們的兒少。"},{"start":22809.352,"end":22834.151,"text":"所以今天就要來談一個問題就是說部長這幾天應該看到很多很令人難過的消息上個禮拜無照駕駛導致三話三明的國小孩童受到傷害這幾天又出現了桃園無照駕駛遭酒駕撞擊死亡一個17歲的孩子就這樣離開我們了我們辦公室在搜尋網路的時候光這兩個禮拜以來"},{"start":22835.572,"end":22845.184,"text":"就已經將近有5起的5兆價值的事故上新聞這上新聞大家都嚴重沒上新聞的不知道又有多少來下一頁"},{"start":22846.952,"end":22867.882,"text":"所以從張嬅三姊弟被無照駕駛的一個駕駛者撞傷後我很好奇的就是到底台灣無照駕駛到底有多嚴重所以我請我們辦公室同仁找過去這5年來的案件死傷人數也就是違規事故造成所有當事人死亡那運營所呢事實上針對於一名我們的"},{"start":22868.702,"end":22871.645,"text":"一百八十四億元一百八十四億元來下一張也就是如果是酒價呢"},{"start":22887.977,"end":22888.157,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":22913.161,"end":22935.343,"text":"我先花多少錢那個我請市長那個我覺得無照駕駛有幾個剛剛也看到彰化這是高齡啦高齡的部分另外有一票有一些是這個高中生高中生去我想說在在整個這個無照駕駛所造成的這個傷害的確非常的嚴重啦"},{"start":22936.184,"end":22952.172,"text":"我個人是覺得當然是職網面一定要做另外一個是這個包括老人駕照的這些管理我覺得因為過去我們的確在75歲換照的當時有一個通融期以上那個不處理等等的這些課題"},{"start":22954.193,"end":22964.761,"text":"高中生在教育單位裡面的要求等等的我想說這個部分這個我們會持續來重視這個部分因為最近很多的嚴重的這個車禍事態"},{"start":22984.114,"end":23000.252,"text":"除了罰款以外這跟臺灣還蠻相近可是他們的罰款也比我們高可是他還有一些刑法上處罰甚至新加坡跟美國都有扣車的規定還有連帶處罰的一些相關的一個措施"},{"start":23000.872,"end":23025.923,"text":"來下一頁那日本呢事實上也是過去他在10多年前因為曾經因為討論過無照的問題當時他們眾議院一直認為說這會議記錄跟修法的整個都顯示這兩者的死亡死亡的狀態事實上是一樣的甚至無照價值還更為嚴重所以他們把罰則整個都拉平了結果"},{"start":23026.833,"end":23027.714,"text":"你知道這兩者有所差異嗎?"},{"start":23042.731,"end":23061.17,"text":"既然這個成本事實上有這麼大的差異不知道對於這一塊我出乎感覺應該是酒駕會比較高然後但是我沒有這個數據我真的要請部長好好的去關注如果無照駕駛跟酒駕我們現在推算出來受傷死亡的量體如果橫比的話"},{"start":23061.718,"end":23083.366,"text":"他們相差有5倍之多的話我認為無照駕駛真的要去關注尤其未成年無照駕駛所以可以看到我們不管是汽車跟機車在我們的標準化的一個傷亡率跟受傷無照駕駛都顯示的事實上是高出酒駕非常的多來下一頁"},{"start":23086.196,"end":23097.966,"text":"我們的相關的措施這是我跟交通部所知的那個相關的裁罰數據那針對無照駕駛呢事實上取締的確你的取締量逐年上升"},{"start":23098.513,"end":23127.337,"text":"可是在修法過罰金也增加了現在我們增加到兩萬四可是效果不大我們的連帶處罰我們有落實這個規定嗎?看起來沒有像一致保管車輛數我們查不到資料那吊扣牌照跟駕照的話可以看到這個數據都偏低像110年大概就只有0.8的無照駕駛他的車輛所有人會有連帶處罰我們剛剛提過就日本做了很多措施或其他國家"},{"start":23127.737,"end":23144.433,"text":"但是我們似乎做的這部分事實上是不夠多的來下一頁那國內是臺灣酒駕房制社會關懷協會他就說扣車是最有效的可是我們扣車剛剛可以看到那個比例上並不高在下一頁所以在這邊"},{"start":23145.919,"end":23146.199,"text":"委員發言完畢"},{"start":23170.39,"end":23175.627,"text":"接下來請李玉玲委員、李玉玲委員、李玉玲委員不在"},{"start":23177.112,"end":23206.194,"text":"現在請曾振淺委員、曾振淺委員、曾振淺委員不在現在請張家俊委員、張家俊委員、張家俊委員不在現在請蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜委員不在現在請王美惠委員、王美惠委員、王美惠委員不在現在請徐欣盈委員、徐欣盈委員、徐欣盈委員不在"},{"start":23207.174,"end":23233.847,"text":"現在請陳俊宇委員陳俊宇委員陳俊宇委員不在現在請賴瑞隆委員賴瑞隆委員賴瑞隆委員不在現在請馬文君委員馬文君委員馬文君委員不在現在請莊瑞雄委員莊瑞雄委員莊瑞雄委員不在現在請傅坤祺委員"},{"start":23234.827,"end":23257.68,"text":"副婚期委員．副婚期委員不在．現在請劉建國委員．劉建國委員．劉建國委員不在．現在請林楚英委員．林楚英委員．林楚英委員不在．現在請蘇清泉委員．蘇清泉委員．蘇清泉委員不在．"},{"start":23258.821,"end":23285.121,"text":"現在請章祺凱委員．章祺凱委員．章祺凱委員不在登記質詢委員．均已發言完畢．做以下決定．報告及巡打完畢．委員．陳秀寶．蘇清泉．王宏威．劉建國．陳俊宇．所提書面質詢．列入記錄．並刊登公報"},{"start":23286.704,"end":23302.856,"text":"委員與質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部盡速以書面答覆本日議程處理完畢現在休息明日上午9點繼續開會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}