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選舉本院第11屆第1會期本會召集委員案一 推舉發票員 唱票員 計票員及監票員決定秦城委員冠廷擔任發票員及監票員徐委員小新擔任計票員及唱票員二 選舉結果"},{"start":2040.236,"end":2041.557,"text":"請問在場委員對於上次會議一書有沒有遺漏錯誤要更正的地方"},{"start":2068.735,"end":2079.299,"text":"沒有的話我們一速確定請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員馮世寬報告業務概況．並備質詢宣讀完畢"},{"start":2086.767,"end":2112.778,"text":"我們先來介紹在場的委員我們今天在場委員相當踴躍我們的名單第一個我們陳永康委員黃仁委員然後再來是林益君委員林楚英委員沈伯陽委員"},{"start":2115.382,"end":2144.216,"text":"羅梅林委員：洪森漢委員各位委員會掌聲鼓勵的只有退伏會其他部會不會接下來我們介紹今天我們與會的退伏會的官員第一位我們歡迎主任委員馮世寬馮主委我們這一趴通常不會鼓掌副主委李文忠"},{"start":2146.502,"end":2158.812,"text":"副主委 傅政成副主委 吳志洋再來是主秘 簡世峰綜合規劃處處長 栗以剛服務照顧處處長 曹東發救養養護處處長 周星國就學就業處處長 池玉蘭"},{"start":2176.743,"end":2204.517,"text":"舊醫保健處處長張仁義事業管理處處長楊長正退除己父處處長羅馬可行政管理處處長詹光宇人事處處長吳延均政風處處長王文信會計處處長蔡靜滿"},{"start":2208.729,"end":2214.23,"text":"統計資訊處處長張志強法規會執行秘書陳靜茹另外列席的議員有臺北榮總院長陳維銘陳院長好再來是臺中榮總陳世安院長高雄榮民總醫院院長陳金順"},{"start":2236.174,"end":2255.509,"text":"陳院長請坐平東榮總院長吳東玲吳院長吳院長是第一次到我們這裡來嗎沒有第二次了請坐再來是臺中榮總埔里分院徐衛慈徐院長另外我們榮民農卷基金會秘書長李世國"},{"start":2258.809,"end":2271.813,"text":"另外剛才我有看到陳冠廷委員也到場我們補充介紹接下來本日會議議程邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會報告業務概況．並備質詢請馮主委上台報告"},{"start":2290.592,"end":2319.442,"text":"恭喜所有新當選的委員立我們推普會來聽取我們年度的這個工作的報告首先呢要對大院歷屆委員先進多年來對本會的指導支持警戒崇高的敬意與謝誠回顧過去四年多的期間在新冠"},{"start":2320.452,"end":2320.732,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2349.327,"end":2362.371,"text":"跟營造溫馨、祥和、有尊嚴、 營養友善的環境同時建構互利共融社會的循環以下就業務的現況跟未來的重點則要報告如後業務執行的狀況一"},{"start":2370.731,"end":2390.49,"text":"引造友善的環境共享長照的資源在去年16所榮家經聆聘衛福部老人福利機構評鑑委員評鑑結果均達甲等以上而推動開放共榮社會化除配合政府"},{"start":2391.553,"end":2407.08,"text":"托育的政策推動在高雄馬蘭及花蓮三所容家設置了非營利的幼兒園之外16個容家結合家區的特色及人文景觀規劃參訪的路線邀請學童社團及機構進入容區參觀與辦理活動"},{"start":2417.286,"end":2438.259,"text":"這個副表請參閱中間沒有寫的是我們每年都選擇一個榮家做升旗典禮譬如我們已經在中章、岡山還有高雄今年是在台南榮家請看次頁"},{"start":2439.844,"end":2458.913,"text":"我們執行站起來走出去的方案安排新進的同仁及替代役的役籃走入榮家建起照顧失能長者生活起居陪伴他們在家區散步聊天及參與文康活動"},{"start":2460.174,"end":2476.195,"text":"藉由身體力行增進對高齡長者同理心了解照顧實況以期未來政策規劃符合榮家及長者的實際需求我們在去年一年的時間我們"},{"start":2478.362,"end":2506.189,"text":"有553位學員跟新進的人員去參觀學習第4結合民間的資源提供合作的場域我們3年來累積了赴世界華人工商婦女企業管理協會張榮發基金會及保家公益基金會的捐贈電動護理床沐浴機富康巴士"},{"start":2507.386,"end":2519.529,"text":"提供重攤私人住民．更優質的照護品質．並且減輕了服務人員工作負荷．及降低職業傷害的風險．第5這個速發部已審查通過．榮譽國民之家．無線網路的設置經費有5200多萬元．我們將在明年建制完成．"},{"start":2537.046,"end":2555.381,"text":"農家全面配置生命體徵的自動上傳的照護系統,監護著名生命真相及血壓。去年並構置電動護理床有一千多床,降低臥床著名的壓窗發生率。"},{"start":2558.035,"end":2571.681,"text":"第7,自106年2月開放民眾入住農家﹐至今﹐戰床率已經有1355床﹐有總數的15.44%﹐並且在板橋、桃園、彰化、高雄、花蓮等5所農家復設日照中心﹐"},{"start":2584.242,"end":2609.735,"text":"來照顧我們平常沒有辦法被照顧的老人而且我們運用這個照顧的經驗推動輕盈共居鼓勵青年以服務的時數換住宿的方式入住農家同時促進輕盈世代共同的榮樂讓長輩感受如同家庭一般的溫暖去年既有9位青年申請"},{"start":2611.355,"end":2624.026,"text":"並且有服務的時數有2000多小時,住民接受服務有700餘人次。第二,增進農民醫療的效能,提供智慧的照顧。"},{"start":2625.816,"end":2649.546,"text":"我們在臺北、臺中及高雄三個榮總獲國家醫療品質智慧醫院的全機構標章其中臺中榮總三度通過這個智慧醫院全機構獎臺北及臺中榮總獲得美國Newsweek雜誌評選2024年全球最佳智慧醫院"},{"start":2650.786,"end":2668.677,"text":"臺北臺中高雄及屏東榮總分別開發預判新衰竭急性腎損傷預測的系統嚴重敗血症人工智慧的辨識系統及建置智慧整合平台等"},{"start":2670.29,"end":2697.228,"text":"帶領各榮總分院與榮家發展智慧照護重要的成果如下表比如說臺北總院有預判腥衰竭臺中有急性腎損傷的預測系統高雄總醫院有嚴重敗血性病人人工智慧辨識的警示系統屏東總治院建置全院檢查智慧整合的平台等"},{"start":2699.807,"end":2705.413,"text":"我們各級榮業共設置了一萬兩千多醫療床共門診"},{"start":2707.861,"end":2712.664,"text":"據統計的876萬餘人次 急診40餘人次 住院316萬餘人次的醫療112年設立屏東榮總 累計服務的門診已經有23萬餘人去年9月 民洋國際科技廠房的大火"},{"start":2730.492,"end":2758.559,"text":"我們屏東榮民總醫院．分擔了緊急醫療的人力．帶給屏東鄉親．更優質的醫療服務．也增加我們地區鄉親的信心第三．各級榮運發展先端．精準健康的照護．提升治療的效能臺北榮民總醫院．重力指癌症治療中心．自去年5月15日起重．"},{"start":2759.929,"end":2784.836,"text":"截至今年2月已經完成160例的治療是推動榮總榮家急診遠距醫療品質的提升計劃提供榮家住民遠距會診與醫療諮詢服務減少榮家的住民外送就醫截至去年12月底我們"},{"start":2788.159,"end":2798.051,"text":"總計服務2000餘人次其中有1000餘人次被建議續留榮家觀察減少轉送醫院比率達50%以上臺中總統構置了"},{"start":2802.176,"end":2808.884,"text":"建構了全國最大規模的遠距醫療中心提供24小時的這個上線問診會診提早檢商協助偏鄉的醫療等都請委員參考其次"},{"start":2820.199,"end":2845.124,"text":"我們高雄榮總開發遠距智慧醫療新電圖的系統稱之為定心部推廣至高雄、岡山、白河等三所榮家僅需在住民身上貼補定心部接上電極貼片即可進行檢查確認是否為急性心肌梗塞"},{"start":2846.347,"end":2872.718,"text":"幫助醫療人員迅速做出判斷及時處置與治療預計3到5年之內完整16所農家的建置請翻頁各界農家去年購置政治電腦斷層影像及MRI的實照影像等各1000萬以上的尖端設備儀器"},{"start":2874.437,"end":2894.11,"text":"其中用重粒子還有這個新的建築物我們請看這個副表如高雄醫療的健康照護大樓臺北榮總的手術室的興建等請參考第三是榮民英靈永享濟世"},{"start":2896.249,"end":2904.919,"text":"這單身農民亡故以後所所的服務安養機構辦理善後並由各機構的首長主持公祭"},{"start":2906.007,"end":2906.027,"text":"請參考："},{"start":2936.516,"end":2963.562,"text":"第二鏈結地方政府慈善團體協力辦理單身亡故榮民這個木座的起絕遷移因為這些木座都無人祭祀與損毀我們一共至去年辦理了2278座這個把它安坐在軍人中林池擁享國家的祭祀"},{"start":2967.551,"end":2974.597,"text":"編寫的數量表請各位看15頁所列第3緬懷政府"},{"start":2977.874,"end":3003.168,"text":"這個免懷隨政府來臺的榮民奠定國家安全及經濟發展基礎的功勳我們向古臨頭及八二三戰役中英勇犧牲的先烈致敬於去年1月16、8月23假臺北榮家舉行政府來臺歷年亡故榮民的起見中風三十紀念召見法會"},{"start":3004.449,"end":3021.738,"text":"以及對於中原普渡我們對於這個操建的道場以及向榮民們能夠祝福他們回歸故土同時也祈願所有榮家住民長輩平安健康"},{"start":3023.342,"end":3039.071,"text":"第4照顧移族彰顯官兵犧牲奉獻的精神為落實政府照顧官兵及其移族政策於112年將服役期間因戰功運命"},{"start":3040.091,"end":3055.6,"text":"官兵之遺族列為優先照顧對象應配合兵役法第44條條文的修正將服役10年以上亡故官兵的遺族比照容明卷列入"},{"start":3056.556,"end":3058.938,"text":"主動為經濟弱勢的農民辦理危險的"},{"start":3084.427,"end":3105.571,"text":"保險禮賠均最高達30萬元自去年3月起投保對象及家庭遇到特殊狀況如獨自扶育、扶養18歲以下子女或家庭發生重大變故的他們獲得的照顧由納保的6138人中間"},{"start":3108.852,"end":3113.643,"text":"有8人已經辦理了維保金額的核發"},{"start":3115.666,"end":3142.905,"text":"基於崇高暴薰的理念,我們對您退休奉瞻養金及生活補助費的人員或其眷屬住宅自用的水電優待辦法,自去年7月起特別將義務役因公至身心障礙致您瞻養金的人員及475元納入自用自宅的水電優待的對象。"},{"start":3145.287,"end":3160.338,"text":"第5提升服務的品質強化營運的績效我們各農場住宿及休息的品質以卓普為核心及生態保育自然景觀環境保護為主軸"},{"start":3162.88,"end":3181.999,"text":"規劃設立111年至115年重大投資的計劃將改善我們露營區及員工宿舍等環境優化以提升服務的品質這個我們專案的成立請大家參考"},{"start":3184.898,"end":3205.858,"text":"去年配合交通部觀光組組團的計劃曾經赴馬來西亞新加坡及韓國等國家參加行銷推廣活動我們也參加了台灣觀光協會辦理的2023年台灣美食展還有ITF台北國際旅展"},{"start":3208.092,"end":3222.816,"text":"並且積極觀光署所舉辦的第一屆觀光亮點獎及武林農場分別獲得了國家最佳的國旅潛力獎與最佳人氣獎等請參閱。"},{"start":3228.294,"end":3245.997,"text":"配合節慶時推出榮民節軍人節及醫護人員節等活動延續山軍將士將領將士以及我們對於國軍任務的官兵譬如飛行員機工廠等以進軍從軍的這種計劃比照榮民優待讓他們到我們農場去休閒活動"},{"start":3258.106,"end":3266.782,"text":"花湖市鼓勵國軍官兵開創第二事業並提供有益從事農業之接推官兵與農民培訓"},{"start":3268.154,"end":3290.966,"text":"我們一共舉辦了兩年三期第四期已經開訓其就業率達43%成效良好但是我們也有困境我們這些結訓的人員其中13位從農以後生產的農產品都不能夠有計劃性的加以推銷受到賣場剝削式的採取"},{"start":3294.508,"end":3317.218,"text":"也希望我們委員能夠協助我們如何跟我們的農業部提倡我們能夠有自己經營的這種推銷的場所來推銷這些產品以達到我們希望青年能夠回歸鄉里去從事漁農的這個政策"},{"start":3320.339,"end":3326.223,"text":"第6次強化軍人退伍後的競爭力我們自105年起已經將學雜補助費由2萬到42萬元調整為2萬到8萬元而且請過後月"},{"start":3335.56,"end":3353.39,"text":"我們在就學就業與軍貼的獎金方面已經有5000多人次大專院校進修補助有2000多人次就業考試進修的補助有664人次我們除了辦理這個二專二級四級大學的"},{"start":3356.127,"end":3380.227,"text":"推爭入學也協助就讀大學院校去年與臺北城市科技大學國立勤益科技大學政修科技大學及景碩科技等這個協助官兵的入學及就業及成效如附表請過夜到第26頁我們鼓勵"},{"start":3384.798,"end":3409.777,"text":"在地參訓就地作業．退出役官兵及眷屬可依職涯．規劃選擇參加本會公告輔助的課程．再訓後就業輔助．其輔導率達到百分之百．輔助的額度已經由4萬元．調高為榮民12萬元．講的這是一年．這個二類的官兵到8萬元．這個請參考"},{"start":3412.967,"end":3437.339,"text":"在事性的補助上委託專業機構提供職業事性的評量職業諮詢的服務職涯講座及職涯探索專業等服務最近我們也聽說對於國軍官兵介退的人員去年比較多我們今年已經開始請我們這個"},{"start":3442.831,"end":3464.758,"text":"這一個處是級副處處長跟他的同仁在每一次專業就業講習中間提供他對於我們續營服役的這種獎勵辦法以及優惠都做出了比較希望能夠再營的官兵繼續留營"},{"start":3466.926,"end":3486.684,"text":"第7連結社會的資源充實服務的能量．定期訪視關懷．這個退出役官兵及眷屬．運用科技輔具．遠距居家照護系統．並與村里長鄰居．榮興志工．甚至於郵局等建立橫向的聯繫．發掘個案．然後轉介投儲．這個服務的人數達到100多萬人"},{"start":3494.008,"end":3518.964,"text":"跨湖山,榮民榮賢基金會以精心的知識及各界的捐款向辦理大學以上親韓榮民子女獎學金、就學輔助及國外求學金融圓夢的計劃,如附表,舉例來說,金融圓夢計劃裡面6人次就有達300萬元,他們被選拔以後,到各國"},{"start":3520.325,"end":3523.367,"text":"委員會主任委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":3542.492,"end":3563.405,"text":"我們與桃園市政府文化局設立中華民國眷村資源中心建構眷村知識交流平台及文化保存基地並與民間眷村組織合作培養文化保存人才及專屬出版"},{"start":3564.434,"end":3591.64,"text":"目前全國各縣市62個眷村組織中已經有41個單位有互相合作推廣的關係第5積極連接社會的資源去年9月與財產法人慈濟資金基金會合作共善協議辦理了北中南東區的交流會建立雙方各區的聯繫機制"},{"start":3593.768,"end":3602.675,"text":"請過夜看第6項若是人機己機﹐人力己力的互助精神透過榮民節公益的活動"},{"start":3604.746,"end":3625.621,"text":"當我們與安德烈在一起書畫作品的義賣所賣的所得通通捐贈給這個安德烈的基金會我們除了平時受到他們的捐贈我們也以適當的時間協助他們共同做慈善的活動圖片請參考"},{"start":3631.892,"end":3648.225,"text":"在第8項深化國際退伍軍人的交流剛剛有記者詢問我我們今年可能會到歐洲的國家去做訪問我特別請他們不要先洩露出去我們將要到哪幾個國家"},{"start":3649.653,"end":3674.112,"text":"因為這麼多年來我們受到中共對於這些交流的打壓我們增加了許多工作的困難度所以我們在今年起這個除了努力於對海外拓展我們訪問的基地之外我們也把這個去年度在七八月召開的這個會議以及總統在108年112年"},{"start":3678.908,"end":3697.97,"text":"及我個人110年在開幕會議以預錄的方式表達對我由我組織的美國軍人退伍協會給予祝福並分別由我們會內的李副主委吳副主委及前主任秘書出席在大會中徒電請參考"},{"start":3705.407,"end":3712.575,"text":"第3未來我們工作的重點培育農民子女菁英調整子女的教育補助費"},{"start":3714.222,"end":3735.932,"text":"調整大學以上新韓農民之女就學就業的獎金。內幕我不再多報,但是我們的重點是期望這一些精英在學生返國以後都能夠投效軍旅。我們不斷地宣導,也帶他們去到各基地去參訪,以增加他們對於國防建設的認識。"},{"start":3738.134,"end":3765.212,"text":"第2條高救養其父保障著榮兵的生活今年我們知道我們這個退除役官兵以及軍中調升這個有4%的這個薪資我們已經把我們退休人員奉領退休奉的方案陳報行政院核定後實施這個也會調整到4%"},{"start":3767.321,"end":3777.527,"text":"活化家庭經營管理擴大長照服務的能量為提升各農家照護品質及優化照護的環境"},{"start":3778.584,"end":3798.498,"text":"引進民間創新的思維共同參與公共建設規劃建置營運完成本會榮家促進民間參與公共建設初步的研究目前臺北中江岡山榮家用心辦理BOT或ROT的事辦計劃將來事辦計劃執行成效檢討民間來參與榮家的促參專案"},{"start":3807.834,"end":3824.941,"text":"臺南農家整體的營建工程已經完成．並且有部分已經入住在新的農家．未來將結合高融的臺南分院醫療服務．成為本會第2個醫療合一的園區．第4推動就業軍貼"},{"start":3832.516,"end":3833.056,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3851.792,"end":3862.059,"text":"就業三個月以後我們給予每個月八千至一萬的獎金希望他們穩定就業這個成果已經達到46%以上而且從46%他們離職率來看現在已經大幅降低到9.37%這個我們促進穩定就業成效表請參閱"},{"start":3879.71,"end":3897.709,"text":"接手高雄市立聯合醫院拓展醫療的服務高雄榮總接手營運高雄市立聯合醫院除了有效運作醫學中心與區域醫院轉診的服務之外也疏解"},{"start":3898.59,"end":3912.388,"text":"醫學中心擁擠就醫的人潮提供更多榮民和市民優質的醫療服務擴大醫療的範圍受惠的是全體的榮民是全體的居民"},{"start":3914.717,"end":3942.424,"text":"結語本會將持續精進退伍的工作維護退伍軍人之尊榮權益與福祉使國人感受國家積極照顧退伍袍著作為以吸引更多的青年到軍中保衛國家發展志業最後我個人的感想我在退伍會已經接近五年但是覺得有許多的事情都還沒有為之完善也請"},{"start":3943.703,"end":3952.175,"text":"各位委員能夠多於指導讓我們來改進謝謝各位委員的參與謝謝各位給我們指導"},{"start":3961.786,"end":3989.022,"text":"沒有的話我們也請我們委員參酌書面那接下來進行本會委員的詢答本會委員的時間是6加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘10點30分發言登記截止那如果有臨時提案請於10點30分前提出那我們會在11點是會議狀況來進行處理現在首先請沈伯陽委員上台進行詢答"},{"start":4000.697,"end":4029.527,"text":"那有請這個馮主委謝謝好請馮主委委員早安好早安那謝謝這個主委的這一個業務報告那這一個退輔會的作為然後以及這個一些福利的一些提供說真的是區域蠻完善的我的過世的這個阿公也是八二三炮戰的榮民一直也是受到退輔會的照顧"},{"start":4030.367,"end":4051.409,"text":"那我今天想要問的是一個非常單純的問題就是我們退將跟這個赴中國的問題那我知道其實退將的管制主要還是在國防部所以我今天不會去碰觸到一些管制的問題比較是接觸到就是今天退役軍官在退輔會我們怎麼去對待的一些事情那第一個我是想要先從這邊看起就是說"},{"start":4051.929,"end":4075.119,"text":"新聞一直都有報導就是說我們有各式這個各式軍種的一些退將那副中所以呢其實呢這個趨於頻繁然後也越來越多那在我們的這個整理呢就可以看到我們這個退役中將這個張燕婷她就說目前他們對於我們這個共諜就是對於軍人的這個滲透有四個手法那第一個手法當然就是這一個尋找這個退役的軍官搭橋樑"},{"start":4076.88,"end":4098.782,"text":"放長線釣大魚夫人幫利用女性以及一些文化交流等等的活動我比較好奇的就是因為在Peter Mattis的研究他有講過2006到2016那10年是中國滲透我們軍方的黃金10年那個大概有40個案件那現在從16到現在也快要10年了"},{"start":4099.002,"end":4099.462,"text":"國防委員會主任委員會主席"},{"start":4119.068,"end":4147.449,"text":"他去接觸我們現役的軍人到底都是透過誰來接觸結果我們從2015一直整理到這個2023就會發現他所有的協力者都是退役的這些軍官也就是說呢剛剛講的那四個手法都是第一個手法最多啦那所以這邊我是想第一個想問的就是退伏會第一個就是有沒有知道就是整理這些退役的這些軍官他們最主要是從事什麼業務然後以及他們的年齡分佈到底是什麼樣子"},{"start":4150.54,"end":4176.52,"text":"這個回報委員在去年我們退伍會尤其是我主委破例的為去年因為中國大陸要籌辦黃埔軍校成立100週年的紀念我特別為這件事情勸導我們的退出役官兵"},{"start":4179.535,"end":4207.281,"text":"黃埔軍校從大陸撤退到台灣來以後整個的遷移到台灣來了我們所有的軍事訓練都以黃埔精神作為我們訓練的精神教育我們應該要認清你去參加這個活動不是去支援不是去資助而是去看他們怎麼辦但是我勸導他們"},{"start":4208.834,"end":4209.014,"text":"主席"},{"start":4231.584,"end":4259.631,"text":"他們對於我們這個滲透跟希望能夠譬如說煽動挑撥製造混亂等等我給委員報告據這個距離還差得很遠以我去過二三十次中國大陸的經驗他們從來沒有人找過我怎麼會不找我呢我當過情報次長我是空軍的上將"},{"start":4260.99,"end":4274.643,"text":"最有這個宣傳性最有利用性他們都沒有來找我為什麼這些在我個人呢當過國防部長以後才了解這些是底下的一種驅動"},{"start":4277.898,"end":4292.885,"text":"無法撼動我們整個退伍軍人愛國的精神是無法撼動的主委謝謝齁那這個我是知道就是說不管我們是對於他們的精神喊話或是他們的勸導我覺得這當然是非常重要但因為我們在看這些案例的時候他們經營的旅遊業是蠻多的"},{"start":4294.326,"end":4314.775,"text":"然後接下來就是這一些退役的這些軍官為什麼我們想知道他的年齡分布是因為像我們都知道我們在這些退伍之前他們有一些執訓還有像剛剛你有提到有提供一些就業的幫助等等之類的所以我們是在想說如果我們對於這一些退役的軍官的年紀分布是比較了解的我們就可以比較知道要怎麼把他拉住這是第一點"},{"start":4315.735,"end":4334.062,"text":"第二點這個退役軍這個我先跳過就是他們除了這個以外還會做很多這些書畫什麼等等之類的一些交流等等之類你可以看到他可以把我們這個退役軍官的這些圖像就全部放在上面然後也包含了這一些所謂全球州會書畫學院文化協會的一些交流"},{"start":4334.662,"end":4359.209,"text":"那這些交流非常非常的多那到底哪一些才會變成風險因為風險要控管嘛以我們現在國家安全來講我們大概是一個案例都不能夠允許所以對於這個風險控管要怎麼做除了福利的給予之外還有執訓這些相關之外我們是不是還有其他的手段那在這邊呢我們唯一能夠想到跟退伏會比較相關的當然還是福利那在這邊呢我們也可以看到就是"},{"start":4361.28,"end":4378.793,"text":"主委之前有講過就是退役的官兵如果違反這個國安法這個停退服的這個給付然後要追討這個退休分那我們現在在想的事情是因為這些判決他的曠日廢時那要等到他定案也要非常長的時間如果我們今天真的要等到那一個時候"},{"start":4379.373,"end":4398.96,"text":"說真的對他們來講這個成本其實並不是那麼的高那其實並沒有辦法真的把它拉住所以我想問說退府會有沒有機會去研議看看就是如果我們今天是不是在起訴的階段的時候呢就可以做停止或者甚至到喪失本條例的一個權益的一個做法我覺得可能只能做到停止啦還沒有辦法做到喪失"},{"start":4399.72,"end":4421.776,"text":"這是第一點那第二點就是因為我們現在有反滲透法因為退役軍官呢他並不是第一點因為通常來講他們的目標是最後是現役的軍人那退役的軍官是他的中間人那這個中間人呢如果他今天被接觸之後再去接觸現役的軍人他本身是屬於這個仲介仲介最主要的規定反而是在反滲透法"},{"start":4422.336,"end":4446.227,"text":"反送中法現在並沒有在這裡面的規定就是說你今天不管是要停職還是這一個喪屍所以不知道這退府會有沒有相關的這個言議能夠提出就是我們能不能夠把其他的規定放進去這是第一個那第二個就是除了這些之外能不能夠把起訴階段的就把它放在停職那這樣的話對我們來講能夠拉住這些人才會真的有一個棒子"},{"start":4446.747,"end":4473.338,"text":"那不然的話呢如果說我們今天主委之前也有提過這個是能夠拿回這個退休房什麼等等之類的那是不是能夠針對這一些呢在一個月之內能夠提出相關的研議方案這個報告委員一個月我們可能不可能提出第一個我們自己要研議第二個是關於法律的問題還是要從法律的程序來解決但是我可以跟委員報告"},{"start":4475.736,"end":4491.543,"text":"從報章雜誌跟您統計數據出數字假如我不是有軍人的背景沒有對軍人的信心我會很慌亂哦這麼多我可以跟委員報告我接觸到的基層是非常多的"},{"start":4493.601,"end":4517.647,"text":"沒有人可以到目前為止這一些我把它當成小小不可能撼動國軍對於國家的熱愛也不可能煽動老百姓起來做什麼紅統都不可能所以有這個事情不要把它看得太嚴重我們已經有相關單位在中間比您講的還清楚的正在進行"},{"start":4519.721,"end":4523.104,"text":"致詢委員了解也報本委員會。接下來進行詢答的委員是林楚瑩委員"},{"start":4557.728,"end":4557.748,"text":"委員長"},{"start":4569.246,"end":4587.925,"text":"主委早安剛剛我非常仔細的聆聽了你的業務報告包括了這些書面的內容那麼因為本席自己的弟弟也是空軍的退伍的軍官所以說我知道退輔會對於退休的軍人以及他的家屬們的照料包括您所寫的不論是長照醫療"},{"start":4589.286,"end":4617.158,"text":"或者是役族或者是子女的照顧都非常健全但是非常巧的就是我想要關注的題目同樣的就是如果退伍的軍人真的叛變了國家之後我們該怎麼辦我也找了新聞這是2024跟2023年三個已經判刑確定的案例我稍微念一下以第一個三個退休軍官收錢當共諜國安法有罪然後他已經定驗"},{"start":4618.459,"end":4638.519,"text":"他所做的破壞行為也許是少數的害群之馬就像您剛剛所說的可是我念一下他是收取為中國從事發展組織勤搜刺探軍情之外包括我們的兵力助手報告還有我們南沙太平洋工作的報告這是第一個案例他所做的事情"},{"start":4638.959,"end":4668.38,"text":"你要知道他退休了領著退休縫拿著國家對他未來退休所給予的部分但是他傷害的是現役的軍人我想主委您過去也擔過國防部長您知道像這種情資洩漏不只是發展組織是情資洩漏對於現役的傷害是非常大的這三個案例您瞭解嗎您知道嗎因為他都是退伍退休之後所發生的事情"},{"start":4670.217,"end":4688.253,"text":"報告委員當國防部長的時候這些案例我個人都了解因為這個是我個人管轄的業務之一而且我個人非常贊成要重罰"},{"start":4689.704,"end":4702.042,"text":"而且也要重賞提供這些資料的人要重賞參與這些不法行動的人要重罰我個人絕對是如此贊成而且給您報告"},{"start":4703.607,"end":4724.94,"text":"規定要處分的要把他的薪資收回的我們執行的幾乎百分之百您確定嗎是因為根據我們2019年所修正的國安法當中就是要繳回退休貨所以您知道現在有多少的軍官被追討而且追討回來多少金額您有嗎這個我們有這個資料的"},{"start":4728.53,"end":4728.951,"text":"現在現役違反國安法要追"},{"start":4738.786,"end":4740.808,"text":"這個我不會滿意但是我想跟您報告這個中間14個人中間吶"},{"start":4766.728,"end":4779.245,"text":"幾乎有6個人還在訴訟中他在訴訟中他就不願意把錢繳回好沒問題因為我知道我所留列的這14位當中請大家也可以也請主委看一下"},{"start":4780.604,"end":4795.973,"text":"這些都是定驗但定驗之後他們會做一個就是所謂行政救濟這樣的一個過程但是大家來看一下其中有4位返還是0元那到底是完全沒有執行還是他已經"},{"start":4797.293,"end":4811.239,"text":"脫產無法執行我當然知道有兩個包括這位張上孝跟陳忠孝因為他還在救濟當中但是在救濟當中的其他的人呢還有像這位鄭信忠孝才追回21塊我要讓您來看的是以這個鄭信忠孝來舉例喔"},{"start":4817.842,"end":4827.893,"text":"他收受中國將近60萬的款項協助中國吸收現役的軍人發展組織這是非常恐怖的行為但是以他110年的9月9號判刑確定到我們來進行追繳有三個月然後呢我們在111年12月12號又進行了一年才"},{"start":4839.125,"end":4852.636,"text":"送出執行而且執行沒有結果然後在第二次的時候又過了九個月言下之意這過程中有兩年我要講的是在這樣的執行過程中他要脫產他早就已經脫產了"},{"start":4855.598,"end":4863.281,"text":"那麼他要讓他的戶頭上面做一個所謂的侵害債權的行為也都已經發生了就像您剛剛宣示的您希望能夠重罰或者是追回他的退休縫但是也這中間因為有太多的過程當中是可以讓他有機會脫產以至於前面我們看到的有可能追不回來又可能是他名下沒有財產所以我想問的就是我們可不可能借盡稅捐機關"},{"start":4886.325,"end":4901.681,"text":"的做法就是在我們稅捐計徵法當中會有一個妥善的行政手段能夠來進行比如說禁止處分做假扣押或者是管收讓他一旦定念之後判刑確定之後不要再給他這麼多的時間來進行脫產有沒有可能演繹"},{"start":4904.977,"end":4924.694,"text":"報告委員,我們已經把6個人共有2700多萬的因繳納的金額這些人員送法務部執勤收繳,這個我們已經做到了而且我們已經停縫,讓這些人都拉不到後面的退休縫"},{"start":4925.775,"end":4948.021,"text":"已經在執行了對 已經修法了是所以我想問您的就是那在這個14個人當中還有將近4千萬沒有返還的過程當中現在決定如何處理那會不會有可能就是因為時間拖得久了就讓他完全脫產也拿不回來以我目前這樣的一個數據喔我想其實大家最想知道的是不是真的有將近4千萬的退休分是沒有追回來的在這14個人當中"},{"start":4950.938,"end":4951.981,"text":"這個您的統計並沒有錯是應繳的就是4000多萬對"},{"start":4956.141,"end":4982.724,"text":"那麼這些人做如何的處理等等的我們會繼續的去追查而且我們一定會站在國家一定的法律面來執行請您放心好我可以讓這個幾副處的處長羅處長您來講一下現在的情況是怎麼樣那麼剛剛我所說的這個建議當中可不可能研擬可不可以執行或是其實已經在反上因為我們知道一般的納稅人他在收到這個納稅"},{"start":4984.085,"end":5012.017,"text":"通知書的時候其實這個就是一個催角的行為這整個法律的行動就已經開始了如果說稅捐單位認為他有可能會逃稅的時候他可以做一些行政處分的作為避免他脫產等等那麼對於這些同樣犯罪而且判刑確定的軍官來講因為他知道他必須要有過去的退休分要追回有沒有可能我們接下來後續是可以有降更多的行政處分"},{"start":5014.273,"end":5021.219,"text":"委員好我是退除情務副處處長跟委員報告那有關於這個國防部只要他因為"},{"start":5021.766,"end":5026.847,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":5051.508,"end":5076.186,"text":"送行政執行署去執行那同時每年在所得稅申報完畢之後在七八月我們還會去寒查追蹤確實把這個債權要做一個處理請委員放心那麼有關於相關的這個處理的後續也麻煩就是您給我一個進度相關的報告那麼是不是可以有更積極的作為或是一些行政手段也麻煩你們再給我們一個報告好不好"},{"start":5076.866,"end":5083.289,"text":"好謝謝林楚英委員好主委處長請回好接下來進行詢答的委員是羅梅林委員謝謝主席有請馮主委來馮主委請"},{"start":5104.293,"end":5132.032,"text":"委員早安主委早安主委非常恭喜剛才您在報告的時候有提到就是說臺北跟臺中榮總今年有榮獲美國Newsweek雜誌評選為2024年全球最佳智慧醫院其實除了這個之外更要恭喜我們北榮更是美國Newsweek更是評選了我們的北榮為全球最佳醫院的"},{"start":5133.133,"end":5144.877,"text":"兩百五十強我想這是一個很不容易的一個成績而且台灣呢是唯一的入榜的這個醫院超越了這個台大在這裡呢先恭喜我們退輔會跟榮總那可是呢這麼優異的成績那我們是不是應該更要來重視所謂的互併比"},{"start":5153.76,"end":5153.78,"text":"互併筆"},{"start":5170.259,"end":5177.404,"text":"目前呢我們所看到就是衛福部針對這個護病筆呢也提出了這個政策在今年1月26號的時候他們就有提出了這個獎勵先行逐步推動金引領這個標竿三員子來推動三班的這個護病筆那這個政策呢是在3月1號就要正式上路那我有取得我們榮總1月份的三班護病筆的這個數據喔"},{"start":5193.934,"end":5217.981,"text":"那我們來看這個屬於醫學中心標準的臺北北榮中榮跟這個高榮我們看這個白天班的部分白天班醫學中心的標準是白天班必須小於6小班小夜班必須小於9大夜班必須小於11那白天班的部分目前是符合這個標準的可是小夜班的部分可能高榮還要"},{"start":5218.541,"end":5218.801,"text":"委員會主任"},{"start":5237.662,"end":5251.294,"text":"針對於這個我們互併比的這個推動的政策我們榮總要如何來充實這個護理人力那到目前為止在政策上路之前我們有沒有補齊有沒有符合標準請問主委"},{"start":5254.107,"end":5280.165,"text":"報告委員我曾經為這個問題跟這個陳院長兩個互相這個研討是而且我們每三個月都會檢討一次是的陳院長告訴我等一下假如我講的不清楚請陳院長再再這個努力是第一個呢我們當然要調整薪資第二個除了這個之外還有工作的環境我們也要調整第三個就是我們要把"},{"start":5281.357,"end":5281.377,"text":"是﹖"},{"start":5311.977,"end":5326.863,"text":"那陳院長這邊主委已經指示你有沒有需要補充的部分呢因為我看到夜班真的是就是北榮中榮高榮都沒有辦法來做達標那當然剛剛我們主委已經有指示了那我們怎麼來做呢在細節的部分"},{"start":5328.764,"end":5351.217,"text":"報告委員那個白班跟小班目前是OK的不過大夜班呢現在因為很多人信任臺北榮總全國各地轉了很多病人進來如果要大夜班也馬上現在就打標所以我是說問你有沒有什麼對策嗎所以現在是北榮市剛剛主委向委員報告的我們的福利政策現在做了很多包括我們的新宿舍1200床"},{"start":5352.658,"end":5367.432,"text":"醫護人員的宿舍6月中旬就會取得使用執照一個月只收1000塊我相信護理師會進來好好的照顧他們臺北榮總現在是在臺灣護理師不夠的情況之下相對護理師比較穩定的意願我們會繼續努力"},{"start":5369.113,"end":5372.214,"text":"因為我們既然有這麼高的殊榮是全國全球這一個前250強的這醫院是不簡單的所以呼併筆也希望說大家來做這個努力OK好那再來還有一點我想請教的一下就是有關於這個北榮那北榮在2018年的時候9月我們有推出了新著名的特別門診"},{"start":5395.32,"end":5423.654,"text":"提供新南向國家新住民快速便捷的這個就醫的管道可是很可惜的就是在去年12月的時候就停辦了請問發生了什麼事報告委員當時在107年9月1號成立新住民門診我們的美意就是來照顧我們的新住民這個非常的重要不過實行之後發現來的人真的不多為什麼 人島不足嗎第一個不是第一個來的因為台北榮總是一個照顧其眾南韓的"},{"start":5424.594,"end":5448.07,"text":"醫院重症那很多的新住民大概在當地的區醫院地區醫院就已經看了重症進來的時候都經過轉介大部分都旁邊有眷屬或是有陪同人員過來他的都到各科去不會說一個加一科看所有的科他可能指定要看骨癌看大腸癌都已經到各科部去了你不可能說每一個科都是新住民門診所以語言的溝通基本上我們發現不是問題"},{"start":5449.251,"end":5471.043,"text":"我們想請教一下院長,我們除了針對新住民之外,像移工呢?移工有沒有辦法使用這個系統?在那之前,你們除了針對新住民,還有來自於新南向的這個移工呢?因為我們所知道就是說,其實很多移工,他如果生病了,其實很多時候他們是不願意到醫院。我們曾經問過為什麼?他們說因為醫生講的我都聽不懂。"},{"start":5474.525,"end":5485.484,"text":"那再來還有一點就是說他們也無法去用中文去表達說我現在是發生了什麼狀況所以他們在語言不通情況之下"},{"start":5486.789,"end":5486.929,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5508.418,"end":5531.946,"text":"臺灣的這個外籍移工去就診我想應該有那我們在同意這部分這個部分我們做的怎麼樣移工來開刀的治療的有一部分的數目那大部分都有僱主派人陪他過來這是第一點第二個現在我們的手機AI很多即時的翻譯都已經有了只要他講一句譬如說越南文我們就可以知道這個翻成中文"},{"start":5533.147,"end":5550.764,"text":"可是我們有一些專有的醫療名詞要如何翻我想手機沒有辦法專業到很多醫療的名詞可以翻譯過來像這個部分說實在我們在實際我們會詢問到一些移工他說真的很害怕去醫院因為無法表達溝通會出了問題"},{"start":5551.445,"end":5552.465,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":5568.342,"end":5568.843,"text":"謝謝委員我覺得這個是一個非常重要的提點我們會朝這條路來做"},{"start":5587.682,"end":5615.209,"text":"然後各種同意書各種說明書我們會翻成各式各樣的語言讓移工也知道讓新住民都知道對因為我們在臺灣的外來人口有超過百萬所以我在想榮總應該在這部分應該也要肩負很重的責任我比較失望就是說有關於這個新住民特別門診這個庭辦的這個事情所以演算到就是移工的這個服務我想這部分的話榮總需要來做努力OK好以上謝謝好謝謝羅美林委員各位請回"},{"start":5618.469,"end":5621.311,"text":"來接下來進行詢答的委員是黃仁委員麥克風謝謝主席就請馮主委主委請"},{"start":5650.174,"end":5659.199,"text":"委員好是我們就以業務報告裡面的一個議題來做一個就教"},{"start":5660.799,"end":5668.866,"text":"退不會在113年預算案編列出稅出1,297,256萬4千元較112年度的預算增加了434萬4千增加了1.58%"},{"start":5684.139,"end":5708.42,"text":"那另外就是特別在這個地方除了你的身份是退部委的主委我也要稱呼你是我的學長那本席在一樣是空心出身退役之後馮主委你在去年在媒體專訪的時候想起當年菜鳥飛行的經驗"},{"start":5711.383,"end":5722.39,"text":"想起初次飛行簡直是怕死那最驚險的飛行狀況就是曾碰過駕駛了T38的飛機也是當時的主教練機所以在當發動"},{"start":5731.121,"end":5752.78,"text":"發動機失效的時候更不巧的是當天氣候狀況不佳心裡七上八下幸好有平安的歸來那當然這個是我親舊我想你清楚的高偉和曾經也擔任過在台東這個擔任過這個富人隊長對是"},{"start":5756.761,"end":5785.087,"text":"所以本席既然是我們是學長跟學弟你應該身為原住民的學弟希望能夠多照顧我們退出役官兵的原住民那當然本席是有史以來是第一次在國防外交委員會擔任委員所以現在就是我想本席"},{"start":5786.28,"end":5803.192,"text":"就叫主委推不會相關轉投資事業公司及農場禁用的職員的狀況如何當中禁用退除役員主委的比例狀況如何這個部分我想請教"},{"start":5807.516,"end":5821.966,"text":"委員好我是事業管理處處長楊長正現在我回答委員的問題我們農場的職員工總共聘用了447個人那其中原住民的同胞我們的弟兄大概聘用124個人"},{"start":5824.287,"end":5840.061,"text":"平庸少的原因並不是他們不願意來,因為高山地區偏遠地區,所以他們服務意願不高,雖然待遇很好,我們最基礎的員工進來就4萬多塊,平均如果表現良好的話,他一年可以領19個月的薪水。"},{"start":5840.902,"end":5850.651,"text":"所以說禁用了124個人 佔比是27%點多所以說我們是很努力在工作另外一個就是我們的委營狀況 也是這個樣子我們委營的人數總共有1791個人"},{"start":5857.517,"end":5859.158,"text":"現在我問的是他增加了多少的目前"},{"start":5881.38,"end":5905.412,"text":"我們一直在增加每年統計比如說我們缺工我們高山農場事實上是缺工的比如說武林農場跟福壽山農場其實在環山部落大黎山地區我們都建立非常良好關係也鼓勵我們的原住民同胞青年能回鄉工作目前為止這些都是回鄉工作來參加到我們農場的服務的"},{"start":5907.045,"end":5931.725,"text":"地形地物在就地的立場上當然是因為有比較偏遠當然也希望說能夠在宣導上鼓勵他們退除役官兵能夠有就業回鄉的機會這個是一個基本的一個你們退不回基本本來就要宣導的好不好那另外就是33家主要轉投資事業截至112年底"},{"start":5933.826,"end":5934.747,"text":"報告委員這個我還要再統計統計資料以後向委員回答"},{"start":5955.745,"end":5963.5,"text":"不是,現在你不是要再給我回答什麼本來今天你這個答案就應該要知道"},{"start":5964.865,"end":5991.326,"text":"知道今天我可能要問你這個議題因為在你的報告作業裡面就是非常清楚這個議題所以我要問你因為我現在重視的是原住民的這一些員額那我希望你未來我在詢問你的時候不要再給我說補充的報告這是一個非常不禮貌的因為你就業"},{"start":5993.207,"end":6015.366,"text":"這個業務報告裡面就非常清楚就是說你所列出來本來是應該回答本席的以上謝謝委員的指導報告委員我可以跟你們報告一件額外的事情嗎今天你看我們軍中啊空軍有兩個原住民一個當副司令一個當參謀長"},{"start":6016.937,"end":6016.997,"text":"主席"},{"start":6035.3,"end":6059.765,"text":"這個比例原則當然是一定要重視現在我們非常以前在早期不管是四年代五年代六十年代已經家境清寒有的是轉到軍中裡面發展但是原住民在軍中裡面是非常忠於國家忠於服從命令這是一個基本"},{"start":6061.165,"end":6088.196,"text":"那當然在軍中裡面就會有負以什麼責任跟榮譽這是軍中裡面的一個教父的一個使命我在軍中裡面也接受到正統的一個軍事教育所以我非常清楚那升官升遷是一個非常重要的因為我們很多的原住民的官兵在軍中裡面非常非常的服從"},{"start":6088.916,"end":6089.256,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6106.346,"end":6106.846,"text":"委員我覺得你講的很對"},{"start":6134.512,"end":6153.837,"text":"第三外界節的退譜會事業單位高階職籤大都由退伍上校將擔任請問諸位有沒有機會開放一些職籤由原住民來選任這個是一個新的議題"},{"start":6157.832,"end":6163.117,"text":"就在退役原住民就業的媒合進度如何今天退步會的就業報告第39頁有提到退步會的業務範圍由推動促進就業津貼"},{"start":6184.821,"end":6205.405,"text":"退除役官兵重返職場 為退補會 連結原住民委員會 強化原住民促進就業方案所提報輔導成效 112年輔導原住民退除役官兵穩定就業人數只有749人"},{"start":6209.144,"end":6236.286,"text":"又根據退伏會官網截至112年12月統計資料顯示原住民退出役官兵多達10267人每合比例只有7%為何黃同委員因為時間到了我們請退伏會再要回答不足的地方請向委員當面報告委員各項指導我們都會下去那這個順便報告給我好不好"},{"start":6237.942,"end":6240.463,"text":"有請我過去的長官馮主委主委請過去在您的麾下"},{"start":6268.554,"end":6295.105,"text":"受到您的指導跟學習我們能夠有機會在今天在這個角色從當年的學習變成質詢但實際上我們要把它是感謝跟敬意因為由於您的指導所以我們在兩岸情勢區域安全建立起一些邏輯框架分析的方法因此今天的並不是需要您回答但是我要強調的"},{"start":6297.409,"end":6325.103,"text":"所謂的國家的嚇阻力量並不只於建立在軍事上面另外最重要的一環就是社會的堅韌性而退府會在社會堅韌性上扮演了一個重要的角色今天兩岸的情勢雖然嚴峻但是尚可控制無奈是我們沒有一個從上到下的國家安全政策的指導所以跨部會的協調"},{"start":6326.681,"end":6327.321,"text":"以哈的戰爭在巴勒斯坦今天已經是150天了"},{"start":6352.816,"end":6378.525,"text":"如果未來戰爭發生我們最重要的就國軍來看有一項是需要退伏會來強化協助的就是戰傷的醫療因為真正的現在的狀況大家都說今日的烏克蘭明日台灣其實這個例子是完全錯誤"},{"start":6379.758,"end":6380.318,"text":"委員會主任委員會主席"},{"start":6399.98,"end":6400.681,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":6419.281,"end":6419.541,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6438.425,"end":6463.074,"text":"所以我們講社會的堅韌性它包括能源氣油水電網最重要的還有一個醫療體系所以我今天在這邊提出這個建言希望在國軍努力強化這個戰傷醫療的同時我們的醫院在ICU在血漿的被變在人工皮在麻醉劑這些東西"},{"start":6465.649,"end":6494.303,"text":"要有一個強化的長程計劃八年前的八仙樂園粉塵暴499位傷患就把北部的醫院完全癱瘓了所以這個例子是給我們一個很好的經驗教訓不要滿足於我買多少飛機多少飛彈多少戰車多少軍艦我們真正的關鍵是退府會成為社會上的一個重要支柱也就是我們榮民醫院的強化以上提供參考謝謝"},{"start":6496.971,"end":6497.331,"text":"謝謝主席 那我們有請主委"},{"start":6529.633,"end":6529.693,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":6557.176,"end":6568.223,"text":"國軍有很多高階藉民現在沒有職務的將領我當部長以後知道的更多我想應該把這個機會讓給他們"},{"start":6570.865,"end":6571.805,"text":"首先呢"},{"start":6596.684,"end":6623.955,"text":"我要堅持我們應該要繼續的執法當然這個執法中間有很多技術性的可以去協調互相諒解在20多年前我當情報次長到金門去訪問可以說是示導當初兩岸的漁民是非常的和諧而且越界的一定會請回來"},{"start":6627.162,"end":6634.746,"text":"不是關而是扣留兩天三天大家很平和的再放回去我們也會被他們這樣子"},{"start":6636.218,"end":6662.706,"text":"希望再恢復到那個年代那個年代我們用什麼智慧保存到兩岸的這種平和現在是時候了要去做這個事情現在有一種說法呢那是說如果我們應該要比照比方說像阿根廷說如果今天看到大陸的漁船過界的話我們就要炮擊他們你覺得這樣是一個能夠回到以前過去那個年代的方式嗎"},{"start":6663.066,"end":6670.907,"text":"我覺得這不是最好的方式這不是最好的方式對我們不應該這個樣子好的因為什麼因為對岸是我們也是中國人嗯"},{"start":6672.608,"end":6695.329,"text":"也希望說能夠和平的來處理但是執法仍然是我們中華民國一定要的了解您的意思那再來呢想要跟您請教就是我看到我們報告裡面最近我們的榮家做了很多跟長照有關係的一些設備那很多長照的工作是正確的方向那現在長照的系統也越來越科技化越來越需要資安"},{"start":6696.11,"end":6713.316,"text":"但是我們去向你們詢問了相關的資料之後發現這個所謂的資安認證部分似乎出了一些問題首先請教主委你覺得我們在配這些長照系統的過程當中資安重不重要如果沒有重視資安的話會發生什麼樣的一些情況這個資安當然非常的重要第一個我們可以防制非親友親屬"},{"start":6725.872,"end":6754.573,"text":"來準備請領他的遺產或者是遺物還有第二個我們不願意把這些資料拉回去以後被對方或者他的友人做一種非正確性傾向於政治的宣傳這個我們不同意而且還有一些保險公司或許也會很需要這些資料那反而就會造成我們的農民受到不公平的對待"},{"start":6755.333,"end":6773.825,"text":"但是我們像你們請教之後發現我們包含在板橋榮家也好那這些您看一下現在上面的畫面我們詢問你們說是否有產品具有資安認證但我們得到的結果是都沒有的但這些比方說像是生命真相量測自動上傳系統"},{"start":6774.565,"end":6800.31,"text":"或者是說安心智慧床墊他會記錄到你可能的翻身次數等等這些跟我們的榮民朋友他切身相關他是相關的數據如果沒有資安認證的話是否會影響到我們剛剛主委您講的這些問題因為他是一個封閉的網路他是在榮家出了榮家他就沒有效別人也接觸不到所以我在想目前這個狀況"},{"start":6802.15,"end":6825.246,"text":"我才去過巴德跟桃園榮家我覺得我目前來講很滿意我相信這些榮家系統他都是可以去做治安認證的因為我們在很多其他的單位比方說可能其他像醫院我就不會問您這個問題因為醫院的系統我們像榮總等等他一定都是有的"},{"start":6825.726,"end":6846.825,"text":"但其實實際上這些公司他也基本上可以做出有資安認證的產品可是我們看到的是我們在整個過程當中都是沒有的我會建議這個部分需要提升因為包含我們未來會建制像是無線網路的建制計畫那包含是很多的一些失智照顧的計畫等等這些我們會想說他的網"},{"start":6847.566,"end":6870.376,"text":"沒有外往出去他就不會有治安的疑慮我的建議是呢我們還是要重新整理一下榮家的智慧系統裡面慢慢逐一的去改善讓他的治安能夠更加的被重視能夠取得認證的我們應該盡可能輔導我們先選擇有治安認證的系統那才不會等到有漏洞之後我舉個例子2019年的時候我們台灣有22家醫療場所受到勒索病毒的攻擊"},{"start":6877.219,"end":6877.399,"text":"好的"},{"start":6900.506,"end":6924.306,"text":"跟委員做一下補充報告我是統計資訊處處長基本上因為現在對於資安的認證比如說是地方第三方的認證基本上是對整個資安的作為包括可能管理面技術面策略面這個部分是比較大對單一產品的有但是目前比較少但是針對這個情況現在引進的產品大概都是單一的產品所以"},{"start":6924.906,"end":6925.246,"text":"這個我們本來就知道啦"},{"start":6942.208,"end":6970.323,"text":"所以我的意思是說其實我們在其他的單位如果要跟政府投標單一系統它仍然會要求你有治安認證所以這些系統進來了以後包括它的原碼掃描、落點掃描還有要經過我們的內部網路的時候都會經過我們防火牆跟其他的防護措施做處理甚至於我們自己本身也對著這些導入的時候會有一個注意事項我建議你們未來在採購這些系統的時候就應該一開始在標上面就要說你要去取得治安認證"},{"start":6971.223,"end":6971.743,"text":"謝謝徐曉欣委員接下來請王定宇委員"},{"start":7010.846,"end":7015.07,"text":"主席麻煩主委主委我們兩個應該是在這個空間相處最久的人"},{"start":7026.781,"end":7041.012,"text":"很高興再次見面那今天是我們這個會期也是這一屆的第一次委員會那我有幾些問題剛好延續還好您在我看各位處長大概都是老面孔所以一些舊問題我們可以持續追蹤"},{"start":7042.293,"end":7062.739,"text":"在業務報告裡面我常常重視的是我們安置我們的軍事官兵的比例特別是我們在民間像新字頭的天然氣公司啊新興客運等等我們持股比例多少我們盡量做到安置軍事官兵的比例盡量接近權責相輔福利相輔"},{"start":7063.519,"end":7090.369,"text":"第二個這個安置的福利以往可能中高階居多數我們現在職業軍人包含職業兵越來越多第一類第二類退伍軍人增加我們希望多幫助這一些還很年輕他可能10年就退了或者20年退不過40來歲所以對基層的中低階的官士兵的安置我們也希望提高人數所以我比較注重這兩個數字所以第一個我特別挑出新章"},{"start":7091.468,"end":7116.594,"text":"我們在多次的委員會討論就是安置比例的問題目前我把所有數字看了一遍好像只有新章最難配合在退伏會持股比例34.08那新章目前安置的我們退伍軍人是17.35大概就一半跟其他新自備的天然氣公司我們其他的事業單位"},{"start":7117.594,"end":7128.836,"text":"我差距有一段相當的距離我可不可以請教一下為什麼新章天然氣的輔導我們的退伍軍人就業特別低原因是什麼"},{"start":7130.197,"end":7147.109,"text":"委員好 我是事業管理處主任楊常政我先跟您回答這個問題事實上我們也非常重視這個問題因為我們整體的比例其實我們總共33%現在已經42%的安置率了但是新章公司經過我們3年的努力其實有成長那個成長在誤差值範圍內是是是"},{"start":7151.091,"end":7166.586,"text":"但是我們會持續努力除了為什麼為什麼特別低你剛才講到一點喔你們在協助我們的退伍的弟兄姊妹們就業其實是成長喔30多%到40多%不錯喔那你的不錯這個又特別低那他的問題就特別突兀嘛"},{"start":7166.886,"end":7183.432,"text":"其實我可以更好但是因為被他拉下來所以比較表現不好最主要的原因我跟委員報告事實上我們不止一次去拜訪國珠河村董事長因為當時李文宗副主委也在這邊答詢這個議題說到如果真的拉不上來開董事會他要親自帶隊去好好問一下嘛"},{"start":7184.993,"end":7210.58,"text":"這一個家公司到底有什麼問題我們去拜訪朱和聲董事長其實他最主要的問題為什麼成長速度這麼慢是因為這三年來員工流動的比例實在是太少了像這三年來我們雖然只進步了5%百分之五而已只是占他們員工新進用的人數已經是絕大部分你想的理由是他的舊員工沒人走所以我就沒辦法安置新人進去那我如果查起來不是這樣子怎麼辦當然"},{"start":7212.961,"end":7234.41,"text":"他們跟我回報的狀況是這個樣子是這個樣子你們有董事在裡面對所以說你們可以看他的業務報告欸報告委員人事機用你看得到怎麼他講就算數報告委員所以說為了改善這個狀況我們特別派了當地的彰化地區的榮福樹處長去擔任那個公司的董事我坦白講不要形塑好像新章"},{"start":7235.558,"end":7258.25,"text":"我特別不喜歡禁用退伍軍人,如果這個名字叼上去,我坦白講他會倒大楣,這不好耶,你同意是嗎?我不相信這樣子啊,但是我希望把他查明,因為他很突兀,他用的就特別少,好不好,這是新章的問題。第二個,我接受也尊重剛才我們馮主委講的,我們對外交的失誤,有時候講太細反而推不動。"},{"start":7259.531,"end":7269.698,"text":"那我們今年國際退伍軍人事務交流從原來的預算627萬5千元提升到1127萬6千元成長500萬1千元有成長那為什麼會有成長這500萬向委員報告最主要就是我們成長兩個部分第一個是機票那另外我們剛剛因為機票漲價機票漲價第二個就是國內接待的一些相關事務"},{"start":7289.417,"end":7289.657,"text":"我想讓副主委去"},{"start":7319.281,"end":7343.799,"text":"因為有些國家對於上將還當過部長的他們會有一點點你上將當過部長的現在有一個在當某一國的總統那一國名字我不好意思講出來因為我怕你們要去你懂我意思嗎其實你去對北約或者有另外一個層次的交流但是你指派副主委我想應該是李文忠副主委要去"},{"start":7345.236,"end":7345.956,"text":"主動接觸然後他們邀請"},{"start":7372.025,"end":7398.618,"text":"那你認為受阻的機會大不大大因為你今天我們都還沒問你在記者問的時候你已經講要去歐洲了嘛那歐洲的國家有退伍軍人協會的齁我坦白講也沒那麼多啦大概可以算一算算的出來啦齁如果中共阻撓導致不能成行我覺得中國把自己這個大國做小了退伍軍人的交流你去阻礙什麼全世界的退伍軍人都是朋友嘛"},{"start":7399.663,"end":7416.129,"text":"所以我們到美國跟退伍軍人協會多好我們現在甚至於派了一位退伍的少將退伍的上校常駐華府那何必對歐洲這個部分老闆講請他們想得開當你會尊重別人的存在你這個國家才值得尊重所以目前你預估"},{"start":7417.159,"end":7417.179,"text":"參訓8人畢業7個"},{"start":7444.466,"end":7471.256,"text":"我辦了一個專案只有8個參加7個退伍而且只能去客運公司上班當時我們就提出來說行業這麼多我們的訓練太少經過2018年到現在2023到2024你的人數其實是一直跳躍是成長我給你們肯定那行業別我過去最不喜歡也不能接受就是誰說退伍軍人只能當保全退伍軍人很多專業"},{"start":7473.325,"end":7487.938,"text":"退伍軍人在軍中學的很多可以應用的所以你們到2022年開始應用在客運海運天然氣食品鋼鐵光電一直往下走這好事我現在只問一個問題你們這叫做產訓嘛所以2024年訓260人那產業就是說我要進到產業界他們的就業安排目前幾比幾"},{"start":7498.108,"end":7506.779,"text":"那個勞動部的救福中心會算每一個訓練出來的人有3個工作叫1比3有1.2個工作叫1比1.2你訓練出來的人大概有多少就業機會"},{"start":7509.008,"end":7515.014,"text":"稍微好好跟您報告就學界會處處長慈玉來呃針對您剛所追尋的問題我們的這個輔導會所推的產訓合作跟勞動部的方案是不一樣我們簡單來講我今天是這個跟了一個企業界已經找好了優質企業時間我簡單問你就是我先詢問找好的需求是找好的需求這邊虛工260我這邊就訓練260是你們是這樣作業的嗎"},{"start":7535.092,"end":7537.054,"text":"不是這樣子,因為他們會提出一個職缺的數量,那我們去推薦有意願報名的,我們就是經過他面試以後,他也同意了,我這個人數呢,他只要通過這個測驗,訓練合格,他一定要給我入局。"},{"start":7553.05,"end":7573.444,"text":"所以我把程序弄懂是你們變成要去拜訪公司行號是那我這邊需要5個員工分別需要光電機械類似這樣子是那你們就錄取這樣的人數來進行訓練訓練考核合格他一定要禁用我們推薦人數會比較多讓他先去做面試對所以應該會禁用比較多一點嘛大概幾比幾但是他的5"},{"start":7574.244,"end":7575.565,"text":"那他們聘用之後我們有沒有像過去給予每個月薪資補貼一萬"},{"start":7590.84,"end":7608.229,"text":"就是我們促進穩定就業津貼是他可以領領一年嗎對領一年你們有沒有追蹤一年後還在任的剛才我好像聽主委有講在任的還達到百分之八十幾我們的統計是就是一滿一年以後他還在繼續留任公司90.6390.63好這個我們繼續希望更精進讓我們的退伍軍人就業環境更好謝謝主委謝謝處長謝謝大委"},{"start":7635.866,"end":7653.249,"text":"呃我們在陳冠廷委員巡達後呢本會休息5分鐘現在進行巡達委員馮勝翰委員好請馮主委主委請委員好"},{"start":7670.192,"end":7672.095,"text":"第一次在國防外交委員會詢問"},{"start":7679.212,"end":7705.618,"text":"馮主委這幾個景點馮主委應該很熟悉這個清淨武陵福壽山這幾個都是退福會在經營的高山農場所以這幾年其實在舉辦櫻花祭其實我們看到其實相當成功所以現在二月底三月初櫻花剛好現在是櫻花的季節剛好盛開吸引非常非常多的遊客所以主委你知道這三大高山農場每年有多少遊客嗎"},{"start":7710.68,"end":7717.922,"text":"報告人176萬人這個清淨是86萬5042萬福壽山26萬這個在2023年總共是176萬其實人數非常多這個我去查了數據這三大農場加起來在這個數據上其實這個兩年的營收我們看到的數字是都破了10億元其實是很驚人的數字"},{"start":7737.046,"end":7764.683,"text":"所以這些高山農場其實它都在台灣非常重要的觀光的聖地其實當然也是退福會非常重要的資產主委同意嗎那主委你是不是知道這三大農場其實我們發現了它有很大的部分其實都位在這個所謂山崩跟地華的地殖民感區主委知不知道這個真的不十分清楚好主委那我這邊跟你說"},{"start":7768.398,"end":7786.865,"text":"這幾個三大高山農場在這些區域裏面那很多有些甚至是在大規模崩塌的潛勢區這大規模崩塌潛勢區不是我講的是農委會的水保署講的所以這都是相關的資料去套疊出來發現這三大農場都在這些區域裏面那也有在土石流潛勢區的"},{"start":7789.277,"end":7807.506,"text":"主委這並不是新聞這些都是我們剛剛看到的在經濟部的地質調查中心或者是農業部的水保署那其實網路上面都查得到也就是從這些資料的角度來看這些地方都是很可能會發生山崩土石流的地方主委從資料來看你同意嗎"},{"start":7808.892,"end":7829.95,"text":"統一對我們現在看到這些在地質上面比較脆弱的地區喔他其實從1950年代到現在那發展很多高山的農業包括果樹茶樹等等等其實我們都知道我們念過這個從國小國中大家都知道其實這些高山的農業其實很多對水土保持也是"},{"start":7830.691,"end":7831.011,"text":"委員會主任委員"},{"start":7847.202,"end":7867.166,"text":"退伏會的三大高山農場其實處在一種先天不足他本來就在地質敏感甚至崩塌土石流潛勢的地方後天又失調因為他用了很多高山的農業他可能是超限利用的所以就保持是一個很大的衝擊在接下來剛剛說到遊客非常多176萬加起來三大農場所以這個主委"},{"start":7872.099,"end":7878.366,"text":"在風險相對高這麼多的狀況之下需要比較嚴格的防災的規範這位同不同意"},{"start":7879.807,"end":7902.796,"text":"同意嗎?那我們接下來就來看了退伏會其實不是沒有注意到這個問題我們現在看到相關的成果包括退伏會有做在這個地質敏感要做土地開發的時候要必須先做地質調查安全評估既有的舊建築也有進行耐震結構的補強然後也有定期派員來巡查各設施的邊坡這些事情我們看到"},{"start":7903.576,"end":7926.569,"text":"是有的所以這部分我們可以給予肯定可是主委我要跟你說其實我們對於防災其實最重要的幾個最重要的觀念跟環節第一個平時需要監測第二個需要預警第三個要有災害應變的SOP所以我現在看到我們這三大農場在這三方面其實是蠻弱的"},{"start":7929.045,"end":7947.596,"text":"主委這個三大我們在這個監測跟預警或者是災害應變我們目前做了什麼這幾個部分這個我這樣子回答您我們對於您這個報告我們回去做一個檢討是檢討完之後把書面報告呈現給您"},{"start":7951.22,"end":7952.581,"text":"作為我們改進的依據"},{"start":7968.849,"end":7993.348,"text":"但其實同樣類型的地質條件同樣類型的客觀條件其實比方我們看到有些前車之鑒像廬山溫泉就發生過很多次的土石流所以這是不能夠輕忽的問題所以各位我想現在先請教其實就我們現在就平時的監測的狀況我們目前看到的狀況我把我看到的找出來的資料客觀的呈現"},{"start":7995.148,"end":7999.4,"text":"現在這個退輔會只有每季的監測但沒有即時監測"},{"start":8001.24,"end":8029.368,"text":"但其實在這個地方我覺得恐怕是有必要進行即時監測的但現在農委會的水保局其實有針對雨量在做監測這部分不會做分工我覺得是很OK的事情但接下來就牽涉到獄警的問題我們跟農委會的水保局討論了如果發生了監測超標也就是危險的程度風險提高的時候他們目前通報的程序是什麼他們第一個通報地方政府第二個這個"},{"start":8032.122,"end":8032.462,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8051.689,"end":8070.425,"text":"主委我再跟你報告他們說為什麼沒有要通知退府會因為退府會沒有跟他們要求要請他們在這些資料上面提供警戒的資訊跟通知所以我的意思是說我知道前面有做的事情我知道退府會有做可是我們目前看起來這是三大"},{"start":8072.759,"end":8087.984,"text":"監測預警跟災害應變上面包括災害應變我們看到都非常非常的欠缺SOP就算應變上面我們只有看到你們在報告上面寫說我們會疏散遊客但到底該怎麼疏散尤其是當我遊客的數量大到剛剛這個程度的時候"},{"start":8089.964,"end":8114.389,"text":"這恐怕是要有一個疏散的計畫在做事前的規劃甚至是需要演練的部分我目前看到現在反而是退不回在這部分災害應變上面的我覺得意識真的是有所不足這是我想提醒主委的地方可以嗎對我列入改進好所以接下來一個事情我想要在最後一個地方再提醒我看到你們在報告這次今天的報告第19頁有寫到"},{"start":8116.93,"end":8144.207,"text":"提升服務品質﹑強化營運績效尤其是以生態保育﹑自然景觀與環境保護為主軸這是你們寫在報告裡面的那我剛剛除了災害的部分以外其實也想跟主委提醒一下接下來我們在這些高山農場的未來狀況我們很希望退輔會不要只以觀光的效益為考量其實恐怕你也應該要注意到包括水土保持這些問題所以當主委要注意到關注到水土保持的問題的時候"},{"start":8145.848,"end":8167.42,"text":"其實有很多專家一直這段時間從我們來到外交國防以後他們就來跟我們說很希望退輔會在我們高山農場的經營的時候不要破壞原生的植坯要盡量種台灣原生種的這些物種的作物比方說如果要櫻花那就是希望比較選擇像是我們的山櫻花"},{"start":8168.34,"end":8192.863,"text":"盡量保持原生的物種其實這對於接下來預防災害或氣候變遷其實都有很大的注意很大的效果這部分我也希望能夠提醒我們退輔會或者是我們這個楊處長然後在後續經營的時候應該用這個原則來思考才比較能夠符合你們在報告上面寫的這個主軸可以嗎謝謝委員好那我剛才在講的部分我可不可以請主委"},{"start":8193.604,"end":8195.685,"text":"陳冠廷委員 陳冠廷委員詢答結束後休息5分鐘"},{"start":8235.984,"end":8236.144,"text":"主席"},{"start":8249.318,"end":8267.915,"text":"委員好主委好主委謝謝這是我第一次在國防外交委員會執行對於退伍會我們退伍軍人的相關事務我們是全力去支持因為退伍軍人的權益對我國的國防其實也是很重要的"},{"start":8268.456,"end":8268.596,"text":"是的﹖"},{"start":8290.186,"end":8311.681,"text":"那主委根據你們的2024年1月的統計數字目前的農民的總數服役10年以上大概是31萬5千人左右那第二類的退除役的官兵是5萬7千人左右所以這兩個部分加起來大概是37萬多人也都是屬於退輔會照顧輔導的對象"},{"start":8315.185,"end":8335.895,"text":"那這31萬5千人的農民裡面有領月退的大概是10萬5千人那有15萬9千人是領一次性的退役金那我比較關心的是這些沒有領月退的農民生活狀態為何是否有追蹤有沒有來去討論說怎麼樣來去照顧後續的這個生活"},{"start":8340.408,"end":8360.44,"text":"這我喉嚨有一點啞我想請曹處長來給你回報委員好我是服務照顧處的處長針對這些不是領退休奉的農民那我們會對他們實施這個仿試那如果說有經濟上的一些弱勢我們會透過我們的一些資源的鏈結"},{"start":8361.701,"end":8361.721,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":8377.228,"end":8401.698,"text":"那如果用65歲作為農民的一個分界點的話65歲以上大概有4萬5千人65歲以下的是有16萬8千多位那65歲以下以現在我們國民的這種健康狀態來說的話其實是壯年那甚至有一些是青年有些年紀還比我輕那這個部分你們有落實輔導他們的就業需求嗎"},{"start":8407.867,"end":8432.313,"text":"委員好我是就學就業處處長池玉來跟您報告65歲以下就是我們的勞動人口所以我們在有16萬多裡面有9萬6千多他是有業就不需要暫時不需要我來輔導6萬多人是無業的我們優先要針對他這個無業的部分如果他有就業的需求其實我們有很多的作為第一個我們就是我們會他如果要工作"},{"start":8432.853,"end":8443.215,"text":"我們在他服役要準備離營的時候其實我們就會有一個借退官兵權益說明會的時候現場我就有一些就業廠商就可以做就業媒合那第二個他如果說退伍了新退15天以內其實我就會去做訪視確認他到底要就學執訓就業因為他們的年齡非常的年輕第一類的官兵也平均只有43歲第二類也只有26歲"},{"start":8458.658,"end":8484.548,"text":"他基本上在就學就業特別是就業上面他有佔的很高比例的一個需求那我們最主要就幫他就業那但是他要就什麼業呢我們就會給他適性憑良阿或諮商讓他知道他要從業的方向給他一個建議那個處長抱歉我打斷一下那個陳慧琳委員我們是不是讓馮主委下來一下換那個因為他現在沒聲音阿讓他下來一下讓我們讓那個還有哪一位"},{"start":8486.969,"end":8487.871,"text":"李文宗副主委請上"},{"start":8498.194,"end":8502.896,"text":"是 那我們剛剛講就是讓他有一個知道他比較適合去從業的方向然後我們輔導他去上工就是就業就業的時候我們還會給他促進穩定就業的津貼給他一年的補助讓他適應這個職場穩定的就業那就業以後如果他有創業的需求其實我們會給他創業貸款的利息補貼這些的作為其實這一年我們每一年都會輔導一萬多人"},{"start":8525.026,"end":8525.386,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8540.467,"end":8568.675,"text":"但是其實在我們的服務處裡面我們大概也是僱用農民非常多的一個地方那很多都比我還年輕那都是校級軍官退役所以說這一些農民或者是說有些是第二類退役的官兵那他們的能力跟他們的這個年齡其實都是還非常年少的所以在這樣的狀況之下我想要知道說這一些退役的這些軍官你們有沒有辦法提升輔導就業比例是結合過去的專業背景喔"},{"start":8569.255,"end":8587.836,"text":"因為我們現在看到包含輔導的就業的這些方案等等其實很少我們有看到直接跟他們過去所屬的能力有關有些有工程背景有些有通信有些甚至是已經念到博士對於這個政策上面也非常的熟悉我想知道你們這方面是怎麼樣處置"},{"start":8589.418,"end":8595.264,"text":"我跟委員報告我們從前年開始其實針對有在軍中有專技的就是您剛講的化工通這些有專業背景的人我們就是做一個專技的那個就業媒合也就是說他在退伍之前"},{"start":8605.213,"end":8614.961,"text":"大概退伍三個月他已經打報告準備要退伍我就會去找相關的化工通他在軍中的專長的人廠商一起來做求職求財的就業媒合那第一場試的一個媒合其實成效出媒率非常好高達90%那在去年我們在中南部也是做專業技術的一個就業媒合今年我們北中南還要再辦理專業技術的一個就業媒合活動"},{"start":8631.033,"end":8649.472,"text":"我們是希望說在軍中學習到的東西特別是跟科技技能相關的他能夠有機會進入這個民營機構其實我看到很多我們的軍官那曾經特別我有些在海軍服役的一些同事們那他們是在過去其實還有送給我出國留學"},{"start":8649.972,"end":8653.354,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":8667.484,"end":8694.391,"text":"委員我能不能給你做一點補充我給你幾個數字第一在這8年來我們在8年前大概我們一年推介榮民含二類那就會大概是將近6000人現在都是超過1萬多人這第一個數字那我再對照一個數字現在一年部隊退下來多少人大概是1萬6000人那我們一年推介是超過1萬人這是第一個"},{"start":8695.191,"end":8717.579,"text":"那第二次是剛談到穩定就業在以前在八年前就業三個月46%跑掉去年我們是就滿一年裡面只有九點幾%跑掉非常好很肯定第三個是你剛才講到非常重要的不好意思那個副主委這兩個部分我們現在謝謝副主委之後再麻煩書面上給我們一些"},{"start":8718.679,"end":8736.092,"text":"是那剛剛委員講到一個非常重要的就是部隊裡面的專業怎麼做我下個禮拜會跟市長討論這個非常重要就把他在軍中的所有的信念念的學校他的資歷怎麼能夠有效轉讓到外面去這個是下階段非常重要的工作"},{"start":8739.835,"end":8764.887,"text":"是要把過去的資產轉成民間的資產是非常重要的那最後一個問題其實是跟之前那個王定遠委員講的是比較類似關於退伍會跟這個派員駐美外跟其他的軍人團體的聯繫那我還是要快速講一下就是說透過強化跟美國退伍軍人的聯繫我是希望他能夠跨部會的原因是因為許多美國的退伍軍人其實是在參眾議院都有職位或者是在我們的地方"},{"start":8765.247,"end":8765.647,"text":"委員會主任委員會主席"},{"start":8793.093,"end":8805.678,"text":"我們的辦公室就是我們國防部的軍事代表團所提供的所以跟國防部跟外交部是密切的我們派系的目的其實在支持外交部跟國防部"},{"start":8806.118,"end":8806.859,"text":"謝謝陳冠廷委員兩位請回我們休息5分鐘繼續開會"},{"start":8836.58,"end":8838.144,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":9205.094,"end":9233.968,"text":"好我們請官員就座我們準備恢復開會好我們休息結束恢復開會接下來進行詢問的委員是馬文君召委謝謝召委麻煩請主委馮主委主委你的聲音還可以啦他今天喉嚨剛才沒有聲音"},{"start":9237.941,"end":9253.614,"text":"主委早安好久不見沒關係待會事實的回答不過因為我們今天要探討的重點還是跟過去我們關注的大概的政策方向大概有一致可是有一些是需要我們做修正的在這裡邀請主委再"},{"start":9255.695,"end":9268.771,"text":"在可能在就這個部分我們再去加強或者再提供相關的資訊待會我們大概會探討的是這些不過在這裡還是要謝謝主委因為您是現在很多官員裡面少數敢言還有"},{"start":9271.534,"end":9272.415,"text":"感謝主委和國軍同袍"},{"start":9293.137,"end":9322.132,"text":"因為在業務報告裡面大概北榮列入了我們全球的最佳醫院其實這是非常不容易的所以可見當時我們在設立榮民醫院這樣子的一個主軸功能然後我們不斷的提供了非常多的人力資源非常優秀的相關的醫療這些條件所以讓北榮、中榮還有高雄"},{"start":9323.132,"end":9327.034,"text":"其實這幾個醫院其實都讓民眾非常的信任那也可以擠進全球的這樣子的一個250強的這樣的醫院其實非常不容易我們也希望我們退府會在很多的人力資源上面的運用也可以持續是依循這樣的方向因為除了照顧榮民以外其實他對所有全體國人其實相對的也會都會受到很多"},{"start":9352.345,"end":9372.433,"text":"的相關的照顧我覺得這個也是大家信任的原因那可是接下來我們要討論的是在2月的時候我們金船高雄岡山榮民之家這個委外廠商把100多名的兆福遠的年終獎金總共大概680多萬他就捲款潛逃到現在有聯絡上了嗎這個負責人"},{"start":9381.021,"end":9398.135,"text":"委員好 我是救援養護處長周英國 那目前就我所知那個負責人未姓女姓的負責人跟他先生目前是在國外那債權都是找到那個未姓他的先生的父親找到他父親來求取這個債權"},{"start":9399.244,"end":9403.145,"text":"那我現在想要請教的因為這個對很多造福員來說真的是非常的不公平我們現在的榮家有高達八成將近八成因為百分之七十九八成是委外的靠委外如果類似這樣的情況發生的時候其實是造成多數的局面包括這個案子他就是四書公司也好或者造福員也好榮家也好"},{"start":9427.051,"end":9438.909,"text":"還有包括我們自己我們所有我們退府會所以對我們來說其實非常重要我想請教一下當初這個因為我們現在是動用預備金嘛對不對"},{"start":9441.848,"end":9461.876,"text":"沒有我們是依照他原來他是年終獎金沒有發放那年終獎金會到這個廠商戶頭有關月份的薪資一月份二月份薪資都是在農家農家已經代位發放所以你是用呃代位發放的方式而不是用第二預備金不是不是你們有動用預備金嗎沒有沒有確定一下那現在"},{"start":9463.417,"end":9464.318,"text":"我來回答一下目前處理的狀況那目前這個已經委託一家公司來接手那這個到6月30號都是沒有問題的"},{"start":9487.981,"end":9514.297,"text":"那至於自救會那一方面就是委員關切的他已經向台南市政府已經提出申請運通已經交由一個顧問公司來辦理相關大量解雇的計畫以及個人的薪資計算等到台南市我收集完之後他會勞資雙方開始了解沒關係這個處置的過程還包括你後續的因為那個是追究的問題可是我在這裡想要請教的部分"},{"start":9515.456,"end":9536.252,"text":"這一個招標的案子到底是怎麼這是怎麼樣這個廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的因為我們是用最有力標嘛這一家廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的就本席得到的資料他是110年才成立這樣的照護公司110年喔他第一個案子就是我們的台我們的是台南農家是嗎"},{"start":9541.235,"end":9547.118,"text":"還是岡山是岡山人家他的第一個案子可是這一家公司他之前是做什麼的他是清潔割草割樹的"},{"start":9551.701,"end":9564.343,"text":"他居然在110年成立的時候他第一個案子就是我們的岡山榮家第二個案子就是最有力標裡面高達3億多的這個岡山榮家他的照護服務我們當時難道在他的服務品質還有他的標價基本能力專業能力這一些部分我們請來的專家他難道都沒有特別去注意這個部分嗎"},{"start":9580.106,"end":9591.473,"text":"因為在審核這個合格廠商的部分他的業務範圍也有人力這一段人力派遣這一段人力派遣他以前我剛剛已經講過了我相信你會比我更清楚他以前的工作也是做我們榮家的他是我們很重要的一個公司他都是做榮家他大部分我們可以看到這個土的那個標示他大部分都是做我們退府會的"},{"start":9606.101,"end":9610.025,"text":"那其他的工作就是清潔啊勞務派遣他的勞務派遣都是割草割樹啊他居然可以得到我們這個招標的案子而且還是最有利標這個還是經過專家審查的"},{"start":9621.536,"end":9625.58,"text":"所以這個部分我們在這裡請主委特別再查查清楚因為他不是只有後續的解決問題這個牽涉到我們有非常多的榮家他面臨的問題當你在決定這麼重要的工作的時候而且你幾乎80%都是靠委外人力的時候你居然選擇這樣的廠商他做了半年以後就跑了"},{"start":9646.019,"end":9646.159,"text":"委員會主任委員"},{"start":9664.654,"end":9673.18,"text":"現在有BOT、ROT的方式對不對有台北、中章還有就是岡山剛剛我們提到的為什麼要BOT或ROT"},{"start":9677.748,"end":9701.748,"text":"因為我們想就是農家有一些空地或是說老舊設施希望藉由北中南我們選了三家農家來釋放這個公告希望說不管是BOT或ROT希望外面的廠商有興趣來投入原因是什麼投入就是我們希望在這個長照建立長照專區來共同來執行這個政府的政策"},{"start":9702.625,"end":9707.106,"text":"你只為了政府的政策你知道退輔會當初成立的目的還有榮家成立最大的目的是什麼嗎我們不是為了配合政策我們不是在衛福部底下的你當初成立的也不是為了營運跟賺錢最重要的是要安養照顧我們的榮民"},{"start":9724.511,"end":9727.854,"text":"雖然過去一代前一代的榮民他可能都是年長的或者以前的娃娃兵他可能是單親的可是我們不斷有新的榮民產生剛剛有委員提到現在都是年輕的那你怎麼樣讓現代新一代的榮民他的未來是可以相信政府可以對他有安養的照顧"},{"start":9746.249,"end":9750.611,"text":"你有這麼大的土地不是給財團去BOT或ROT一次釋出50年20年而是你有這麼大的土地你可以建置更好的一個環境比如說它是安養它不是全部都施治不是全部都是施能要靠完全照顧的"},{"start":9764.199,"end":9764.239,"text":"主席"},{"start":9781.055,"end":9801.61,"text":"退府會跟榮家成立的宗旨是要照顧榮民今天我們募兵已經非常困難了如果你今天有這麼好的一些條件你應該要與時俱進去想應該怎麼樣去做以後照顧榮民可以更吸引他們的一些方向而不是給財團有機課程謝謝謝謝委員主委處長請回接下來進行詢問的委員是"},{"start":9811.789,"end":9822.323,"text":"楊瓊英委員請一秒鐘就換人謝謝主席本席想邀請主委來 請"},{"start":9832.209,"end":9847.253,"text":"各位好,一百分的部長是我們有愛心的主委所以我們今天討論愛心的問題我們這個三家的榮業他們的困難你知道他們在哪裡嗎?人員不夠三班的戶併比怎麼解決?請教"},{"start":9858.82,"end":9859.14,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9880.276,"end":9884.16,"text":"你不是把它增加一個啊嚴肅的議題我們恢復來討論那這個護兵筆怎麼辦"},{"start":9890.1,"end":9912.756,"text":"報告委員我們現在都努力在調整薪資改善環境給他們好的氛圍好嗎?夠嗎?努力中但是其實臺北榮總跟其他榮總相對是在臺灣缺護理師的時候相對比較不缺的我們用心做嘛你相對不缺但是還是不夠鐘榮呢?"},{"start":9914.377,"end":9914.517,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":9931.96,"end":9953.669,"text":"護理師的離職率在中部世家醫學中心是最低的那但是還是少了一些我很為你們主委講話喔離職率最低我沒問這個問題我是說你的護病比是還差很多啊對不對還是不夠嗎好辛苦啊好辛苦喔好主委點頭了來我們那個南農呢"},{"start":9959.442,"end":9965.925,"text":"謝謝委員,我是高雄委員長陳慶順,謝謝委員關心這個議題,那護營筆其實在醫院裡面經營一直是一個大的問題,那我們持續在提升我們護理人員的怎麼提升?主委你注意聽喔,他怎麼提升啊?"},{"start":9975.089,"end":9995.239,"text":"那針對有三班的護理人員的話我自己提續近期之內也把他提續兩期你自己提續兩期其他兩個龍有嗎有有他們都有大家一起嘛不是你自己嘛是是是那也配合國家國家近期也幫忙做很多的這個資源進來"},{"start":9996.9,"end":10000.744,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":10012.737,"end":10041.556,"text":"所以行政院也體恤也認識到這個問題所以因此他們怎麼做呢他要把他護理人員的加班的這個部分怎麼加支援給他們但是現在吵吵鬧鬧還是不足所以我要特別請主委針對這樣子的一個情況你要立即趕快跟我們的行政院再提出確定是有困難因為三個龍不能拒絕病人"},{"start":10042.176,"end":10042.296,"text":"主席"},{"start":10063.393,"end":10091.094,"text":"會 會齁 積極爭取跟著委員的腳步前進不是跟著我的腳步是你要趕快積極爭取我想這個部分藍綠白大家都全力在支持因為真的我們之前才開過護理師公會我們也特別針對護理人員真的充分不足的情況之下到底點線面要怎麼樣去增加這個必須要好好的去研議嘛你把研議的方案也給本席好不好"},{"start":10091.374,"end":10120.282,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":10121.642,"end":10148.81,"text":"來接下來我們進行詢答的委員是林益君委員那個沒有按下去就請馮主委來主委請林委員好"},{"start":10149.656,"end":10168.709,"text":"主委好你辛苦了主委你已經80歲的高齡從年輕的時候就開始擔任保家衛國的軍人一路從基層到擔任參謀總長國防部長你的一輩子都是為守護台灣人民的安全大家其實都是有目共睹"},{"start":10169.77,"end":10193.6,"text":"主委聽說你自稱大鵬希望能跟官兵建立很好的溝通不要關槍關吊的讓人覺得距離很遠希望能夠藉此聽到國軍官兵的聲音是不是是現在你在擔任退伍會主委的這個職位又必須擔任起照顧這些榮民弟兄還有退除役官兵的生計和健康照顧"},{"start":10194.48,"end":10201.305,"text":"更是不遺餘力盡心盡力你對國家的奉獻本席在此向你致上最深的敬意謝謝您"},{"start":10204.768,"end":10232.475,"text":"認真看了今天退伍會送來的業務報告發現了一些問題想跟主委就教本席來自花蓮花蓮有許多軍事要地和眷村所以對這些用生命在守護我們家園和保護國家人民的國軍弟兄們及退役的軍眷的福祉其實我也是特別的重視因此本席真的是希望退伍會能夠持續的進步好好的表現"},{"start":10233.655,"end":10254.559,"text":"本席想要請教大鵬主委本席因為長期在花蓮擔任社區藥局身份對榮民長輩的健康照顧特別的重視所以請教主委是否有統計目前全國有多少的榮民弟兄姊妹們在接受退伍會的救養照顧平均年齡大約幾歲好的我臣服這一個"},{"start":10263.933,"end":10264.353,"text":"委員會主任委員"},{"start":10280.41,"end":10301.798,"text":"委員好我是救養養護署署長周星國那目前我們救養的農民大概是兩萬七千餘人那老一輩的住在各農家大概平均年齡都有84歲因為我們著重於大概就是老一輩對國家是有貢獻的那慢慢新一代的農民也進來了但是大概都是多數是年齡比較大的人申請救養"},{"start":10302.908,"end":10322.474,"text":"對,平均是不是年齡高達94歲到2022年已經上千人的都成為百歲人瑞了是嗎?這個是在我們那個30幾萬的農民裡面我們有1000多位是高齡百歲的好,那請問主委目前退伍會照顧這些農民弟兄的醫療人力及資源是否有充足呢?報告委員我們有金字塔的計畫所以他們除了在農家"},{"start":10331.499,"end":10331.819,"text":"委員會主任委員"},{"start":10350.697,"end":10375.124,"text":"我接下來講在此本席首先先恭喜主委根據2024年全球最佳的醫院250強比中我們退伍會所屬的臺北榮民總醫院獲選第218名是全臺唯一入榜的醫院不只是我們臺灣的光榮也是在你領導之下和退伍會同仁一起努力的成果所以本席想要請問主委"},{"start":10377.164,"end":10383.007,"text":"請問主委你知道在臺北市首善之都臺北榮總現在目前有多少醫師嗎我請這個陳院長跟您打負比較精確報告委員到3月1號的新的報告我們現在醫師是1450位"},{"start":10403.217,"end":10403.998,"text":"臺北榮總是不是在花東地區是不是有鳳林、玉里和台東三個分院呢?"},{"start":10433.217,"end":10433.285,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":10434.551,"end":10441.715,"text":"目前有許多花東的鄉親還有花蓮的更多的鄉親向本席反映因為花東的醫院的醫生都嚴重的短缺大家都希望臺北榮總可以從總院派任醫師下去不用太久一到三個月也可以希望有持續的醫師資源一來可以提升北榮花東三個分院的醫療品質二來又可以讓花東地區的榮民和百姓們都可以免除為了就醫還要坐車勞動奔波之苦"},{"start":10463.908,"end":10466.292,"text":"那你主委你認為可行嗎?"},{"start":10470.673,"end":10498.379,"text":"報告委員我可不可以幫主委回答可以那其實我在鳳林待過兩年我下鄉從花蓮回來有特殊情感那現在花蓮的情況我們非常的清楚那可以解決嗎?可以可行嗎?甚至現在醫院裡面要生主之一是優秀的人員我說你先到花東去服務一兩年回來優先給你把守那這樣來鼓勵好人才到花東去但是在兒科的部分有一些困難現在台大跟榮總"},{"start":10499.059,"end":10526.229,"text":"主委醫師遭受兒科的醫師都受不滿少子化的關係所以這些我們是憂心忡忡可是那邊都是年紀大的阿是不是要派一些內科的醫師去呢那是不是比較符合需要呢對不對我們在花東的話是需要的話是一些比較能服務榮民的那是不是要內科的醫師那比較符合呢內科醫師有調派那骨科眼科這跟高齡有關係我們都有調派"},{"start":10526.829,"end":10545.991,"text":"那希望你們快點把這一個整個大概的書面寫出來看何時可以執行讓我們花東的醫療能夠非常的符合然後服務這些農民是好一定努力謝謝北溪在此要替我們花東民眾的醫療不足和就醫請命"},{"start":10550.731,"end":10556.615,"text":"接下來要請教主委一個民生的議題不知道主委你有沒有注意到臺電即將在4月調漲電價這個新聞呢"},{"start":10561.687,"end":10584.353,"text":"在新聞上播報有看到這次經濟部打算調漲電價主要是因為進口的天然氣價格太貴了既然講到天然氣大家都知道退伍會所屬的投資有15間的天然氣公司可以算是台灣非常重要的家用瓦斯供應的單位那我想要請問主委"},{"start":10585.453,"end":10590.157,"text":"未來這15家天然氣的公司會不會在經濟部調漲電價之後然後也跟著調漲天然氣的價格呢我們處長才去開過協調會我請他來報告好委員好我是事業管理處處長楊長正跟委員報告天然氣公司的售氣的價格是由主管機關經濟部來核定的我們不能隨便漲價"},{"start":10612.762,"end":10633.096,"text":"那天然氣公司好那如果不能隨便上架的話那承諾不上架那就記好你的承諾報告委員我後面還沒講完如果說中油調漲了天然氣我們也是按照主管機關的核定來調整如果說哪家天然氣公司違反這個規定他就要接受50或250萬元的罰款"},{"start":10647.52,"end":10662.626,"text":"請問退伍會目前所屬的是不是有16家榮民醫院跟16間的榮民之家那一般的如果醫療院所的用電量向來不是很低的話那請問主席那你是否掌握到這次電價如果一旦主席還是主委"},{"start":10663.526,"end":10667.029,"text":"主委,對不起,是否會增加榮業和農家的營運成本呢?會的會的嗎?好那老實說這些公營的機構其實要有相應的財務手段才能應付電價的波動過去兩年其實民生物價真的飆漲了生活非常的困難然後苦不堪言然後我也希望說對這些"},{"start":10688.604,"end":10699.563,"text":"若式的榮民們的生活其實是非常困難的希望我們花蓮真的有很多若式的榮民需要退府會這邊能夠好好的照顧及好好的關懷"},{"start":10701.052,"end":10718.903,"text":"可以嗎?可以嗎?主委可以嗎?我們盡全力!好!謝謝!謝謝!謝謝林益君委員!請回!好!主委請回!好!接下來進行訓導委員是鍾嘉斌委員!鍾嘉斌委員!鍾嘉斌委員不在!徐欣穎委員!徐欣穎委員!徐欣穎委員不在!接下來進行訓導委員是謝一鳳委員!時間4分鐘!"},{"start":10728.444,"end":10737.315,"text":"主席好,我想要請馮主委。來,馮主委請。他今天喉嚨沒有什麼聲音。所以呢?難道一個副主委上來聲音比較飽滿嗎?我還是盡量回答。來,請。"},{"start":10743.605,"end":10755.529,"text":"這是蠻好笑的主席謝謝你的建議主委現在大家都在點將你聲音沒有我就大聲一點大家都在點將那你覺得你有沒有機會續任主委我想應該讓給別人做一做因為國軍有很多優良的將領"},{"start":10771.748,"end":10790.092,"text":"主席點這樣,主席點說你旁邊那個副組委,你覺得勒?他是委員不符資格你直接給他打槍啊還是你有機會可以挑戰別個更大的位置呢?我可能不做慈祥"},{"start":10795.389,"end":10820.788,"text":"因為今天沒聲音嗎?不是,因為我已經高齡了,應該要讓,要致敬退嘛那你認為在你任內,對於退府會,你最驕傲的成績是什麼?你是不是說一下?最驕傲的成績是設定金字塔計畫,穩定榮民醫院分院,到榮家對於榮民的照顧"},{"start":10821.516,"end":10822.457,"text":"是的,我們已經容納1335位了"},{"start":10850.211,"end":10872.045,"text":"那我們既然有榮民醫院那是不是可以結合相關的畢竟長照或者是年長者的照顧都是台灣未來的趨勢那就這個部分520之前你可以做什麼樣的規劃這個我們持續開放榮家讓這一些有需要的"},{"start":10872.892,"end":10873.072,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10892.958,"end":10897.484,"text":"請問臺中農種也有到元榮共同協助地區醫院的醫療量能是不是未來有機會再結合農家"},{"start":10910.541,"end":10915.023,"text":"陳院長答覆之前我要先講現在臺中榮總遠距醫療是我們全國最大的"},{"start":10937.89,"end":10940.092,"text":"那如果遠距醫療呢或者是你們擅長的科就是說"},{"start":10966.329,"end":10969.231,"text":"報告委員在榮家都有設置甚至在偏鄉我們都有在設置都是可以做得到的"},{"start":10995.449,"end":11008.523,"text":"我們希望我們的臺中農總以及相關的農民總醫院都可以協助我們農家當然也希望能夠擴及其他鄰居地區的居民"},{"start":11009.944,"end":11035.217,"text":"好謝謝謝依鳳委員委員請回接下來進行詢答委員鄭振前委員鄭振前委員鄭振前委員不在張家俊委員張家俊委員張家俊委員不在何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在吳思堯委員吳思堯委員吳思堯委員不在游浩委員游浩委員游浩委員不在"},{"start":11035.797,"end":11057.926,"text":"邱益穎委員．邱益穎委員．邱益穎委員不在蔡易瑜委員．蔡易瑜委員．蔡易瑜委員不在已登記質詢委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日委員口頭質詢及未及答覆部分或要求補充資料者除已約定時間外請相關單位已書面"},{"start":11060.727,"end":11084.213,"text":"與兩週內提供那如果約定時間按照約定時間提供那本日會議到此結束大家辛苦了三位我代表工作人員還是羨慕你們17個月了然後另外你們人緣不錯今天很順利辛苦了謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}