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全世界其他國家的資金到美國投資啊那以這個為理由我們臺灣的資金到美國投資結果你美國要給我剋稅我臺灣自己也要剋稅那是雙重剋稅美國的財政部在10月29號有發布說雙方的財政部將於近期之內"},{"start":339.471,"end":349.433,"text":"要對於臺美租稅協定相關的展開討論11月29到現在也半個多月了他說馬上就要開始進行了嗎"},{"start":352.883,"end":356.825,"text":"根委員報告這個部分已經我們雙方都已經在聯繫然後敲日期也會會如期的舉行會進行討論對因為這個政策的轉變剛好是給我們一個機會如果他要吸引臺灣的資金到美國去投資的話讓美國的製造業重新站穩腳跟的話他當然希望我們臺灣當然希望說我們不要有這個雙重出稅的這個"},{"start":378.095,"end":378.896,"text":"在這件事情上我們對於世界在改變"},{"start":397.483,"end":397.923,"text":"臺灣的這個晶片這一些的貿易"},{"start":427.526,"end":451.224,"text":"就是很重要的地方就是注意不能被中國變成用第三者來購買或是被他作為貿易轉口變成被他洗產地如果有這兩個狀況的話臺灣可能都會遭到美國很重大的打擊喔因為這個是未來川普政府會非常嚴肅認真面對的事情這個不知道你同不同意喔"},{"start":452.486,"end":470.316,"text":"委員說得很適當外界的情勢變化的時候我們也應該要順勢推出相關的一些政策比如說川普在第一任的時候他的相關的關稅政策以及供應鏈的重組的一個變化所以台灣就順勢推出了投資台灣三大方案所以廠商在台擴大投資"},{"start":471.636,"end":495.807,"text":"然後再加上COVID的時候我們的一些遠距的一個商機興起以及AI的新興應用的科技所以整個讓我們的經濟事實上比亞洲其他國家成長來得好也就是我們那個契機推出了這個方案那當然委員剛剛提到他新上任以後的關稅政策財政政策甚至移民政策等等的一個變化我們臺灣要怎麼樣的因應包括您提說的低價免稅這個要不要檢討討論的事這一點"},{"start":498.408,"end":499.329,"text":"提出有民意代表是這樣主張的因為美國要針對這一塊啊這個中國對美國的這個低價的這一個電商的包裹"},{"start":518.9,"end":542.412,"text":"從1億4千萬增加到10億欸10億份所以美國現在財政部美國的海關也在針對這個東西在提出檢討當然每一個國家的免稅額度不一樣但是我們不能讓台灣的製造業就輸在起跑點上是的那謝謝你願意參考我有一個小問題要請這個國有財產署的曾署長回答"},{"start":551.669,"end":552.552,"text":"委員好 署長一個小問題啦 是這個明"},{"start":555.259,"end":582.297,"text":"今年度就去年省今年的預算嘛是那時候的稅入113年稅入您的編列是247億是那明年度變成202億短少了45億什麼原因啊報告委員大家也知道因為現在政府在推動社會住宅那國產署已經提供了86公頃而且還準備了134公頃的土地要作為社會住宅"},{"start":583.017,"end":608.909,"text":"以往這些土地我們都是拿來作為招標設定地上錢或標租但是以社會住宅優先的情況之下我必須要犧牲這些稅入的來源是好那這樣了解那雖然是少了因為我看那個比例相當大所以來跟您請教那如果是這樣的政策我們支持了是尤其在土地售價收入的部分我們會減了很多好謝謝你那加油好謝謝"},{"start":610.43,"end":611.472,"text":"好謝謝吳秉瑞來繼續來賴世保賴委員來"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":226,"blocks":[["吳委員秉叡：（9時26分）主席，麻煩請財政部莊部長。"],["主席（林委員德福代）：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["吳委員秉叡：部長，11月5號美國舉行總統大選，現在確定是川普當選，川普是共和黨的總統，他除了當選總統之外，共和黨在參眾兩院應該也都取得多數啦。所以這一次的選舉，就以西方的媒體來講，他們說向右轉是相當明顯的，就是說，以前極端左派的這些政策，可能都會受到一些大幅的修正，包括能源政策，像川普在選舉的時候就公開講說，要讓美國的能源可以再開採，不然美國就把頁岩油跟天然氣的開採都停掉了，所以世界大多數都是預測這樣子做油價會下跌。另外一點就是他也急著要結束地緣衝突，所以地緣衝突降低或是停止的可能性都是有的。這一些當然是一些外部的環境，但是他的政策裡面，其實很重要的一部分就是供應鏈的重組，因為他要把製造業再拉回美國，所以他不是只有對臺灣，基本上對全世界他都是要加關稅10%到20%，當然這個10%到20%最主要的目的就是要讓製造業重回美國去生產，增加美國的就業機會，這一點不知道您的看法怎麼樣？這一點是不是我們臺灣可以學習的借鏡？因為在小英總統上臺的2016年開始，我們就推動回臺投資計畫，其實某一個角度來講，也是要讓製造業重回臺灣，但是要讓製造業重回臺灣，你要讓臺灣有這樣子的環境跟基礎，所以當時才會說水、電、土地、人才等等這些問題統統都要解決。這也是上一次我跟您請教的，我們的政策如果要一致的時候，是不是要考慮這些電商，低質劣等的商品2,000元以下免關稅，甚至免其他的稅金，源源不斷的大量進來？那一天我記得我說一年是5,500萬件，那5,500萬件裡面的四千多萬件，也就是八成是2,000塊以下，就是有四千多萬件的商品對臺灣的製造業不公平啦！因為臺灣的製造業在這邊製造，他要課貨物稅，他要課營業稅，還要繳交一大堆的稅金，這一些免稅進來臺灣的，反而它的條件比在臺灣做製造業還要優惠，這個樣子怎麼妥當呢？這個當然不是說馬上要改變，因為理由一大堆，說什麼我們是跟著國際走，但全球化現在已經在改變了，我們的觀念要先改變，現在是世界供應鏈重組，是民主供應鏈，川普要排除這些流氓國家的製造業在世界上跟他貿易，所以他對中國要課60%的關稅，所有的學者都講，課60%的關稅其實就是停止跟你交易，否則你怎麼受得了，你的東西沒有競爭力啊！","我覺得從這個角度來看，臺灣過去因為被中國打壓，所以很多國際之間、區域的貿易組織我們是沒有辦法參加的，東南亞的RCEP我們也沒辦法參加，但是這些區域組織裡面的國家之間的國際貿易，它基本上稅比圈外的要低，所以過去臺灣為什麼會有那麼多臺商得跑去中國、得跑去東南亞，就是我如果要做東南亞的生意，我在越南製造、在印尼製造，我在這個圈子裡面的關稅是很低的，但我如果是臺灣製造，我要賣過去，我的關稅比人家高啊！所以我們自己要想：我們如何營造這樣的環境？","所以現在的觀念是要注意民主供應鏈重整，在這個供應鏈重整的過程中，臺灣會有一些機會，當然也會有一些風險。我舉一個在這個機會裡面我們已經在做而且亟需要爭取的，就是避免臺美之間雙重課稅的推動，因為現在川普也要製造業重回美國，他也歡迎全世界其他國家的資金到美國投資啊！以這個為理由，我們臺灣的資金到美國投資，結果你美國要給我課稅，我們臺灣自己也要課稅，那就是雙重課稅！美國財政部10月29日有發布，雙方財政部將於近期之內對臺美租稅協定相關議題展開討論。10月29日到現在也半個多月了，他說馬上就要進行，請問開始進行了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，這個部分我們雙方都已經在聯繫、敲日期，也會如期進行討論。"],["吳委員秉叡：對，因為這個政策的轉變剛好是給我們一個機會，如果他們要吸引臺灣的資金到美國去投資，讓美國的製造業重新站穩腳跟的話，臺灣當然希望不要有雙重租稅的課徵，不然去投資的誘因就會降低很多啊，這一點我們也要讓美國的財政部清楚。我想他們也是清楚的啦，所以他們自己也很急切地說要趕快來談。所以我是覺得，在這件事情上，對於世界在改變、潮流在改變，我們有一些想法也要改變。張忠謀先生所謂的「全球化已死」其實不是指整個國際貿易死掉的意思，而是供應鏈要重組，供應鏈重組的時候，站「隊（對）」就很重要，就是看要站在哪一隊，另外一個是站對邊也很重要，所以如果民主供應鏈重組，對臺灣這些晶片貿易而言，很重要的地方就是要注意不能被中國變成用第三者來購買，或是被他做為貿易轉口，變成被他洗產地，如果有這兩個狀況的話，臺灣可能都會遭到美國很重大的打擊喔！因為這個是未來川普政府會非常嚴肅、認真面對的事情，這個不知道你同不同意？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員說的很是，當外界情勢變化的時候，我們也應該順勢推出一些相關的政策，比如說川普在第一任的時候，相關的關稅政策以及供應鏈重組有所變化，臺灣就順勢推出了「投資臺灣三大方案」，所以廠商在臺擴大投資，然後再加上COVID的時候，我們的遠距商機以及AI的新興應用科技興起，整個讓我們的經濟事實上比亞洲其他國家的成長來得好，也就是我們在那個契機推出了這個方案。當然，委員剛剛提到，他新上任以後的關稅政策、財政政策甚至移民政策等等的變化，我們臺灣要怎麼樣因應，包含您說的低價免稅要不要檢討……"],["吳委員秉叡：這一點當然是我的建議、我的看法，但是如果我這個看法值得參考的話，我希望你在行政院內部會議溝通的時候，提出有民意代表是這樣主張的，因為美國也會針對這一塊啊！中國對美國電商的低價包裹從1億4,000萬份增加到10億份，所以美國財政部、美國海關也在針對這個東西提出檢討。當然，每一個國家的免稅額度不一樣，但是我們不能讓臺灣的製造業就輸在起跑點上！"],["莊部長翠雲：是的。"],["吳委員秉叡：謝謝你願意參考。","我有一個小問題要請國有財產署的曾署長回答。"],["曾署長國基：委員好。"],["吳委員秉叡：署長，我有一個小問題，去年審今年的預算，113年度歲入預算你們編列的是247億……"],["曾署長國基：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：明年度變成202億，短少了45億，是什麼原因？"],["曾署長國基：報告委員，大家也都知道，因為現在政府在推動社會住宅，國產署已經提供了86公頃，而且還準備了134公頃的土地要做為社會住宅，以往這些土地我們都是拿來做為招標設定地上權或標租，但是在以社會住宅為優先的情況之下，我們必須要犧牲這些歲入的來源。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，瞭解。因為我看那個短少的比例相當大，所以來跟你請教。如果是這樣的政策，我們支持啦！"],["曾署長國基：是，尤其在土地售價收入的部分，我們會減很多。謝謝委員的支持。"],["吳委員秉叡：謝謝你，要加油。好，謝謝。"],["曾署長國基：謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝吳秉叡委員。繼續是賴士葆委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-9","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","李坤城","李彥秀","羅明才","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部賦稅署、臺北國稅局、高雄國稅局、北區國\n稅局及所屬、中區國稅局及所屬、南區國稅局及所屬、關務署及所屬、國有財產署及所屬歲出預\n算部分暨融資財源調度（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310101_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}