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那我們原例先介紹在場委員首先我們介紹我們財政委員資深委員吳秉瑞吳委員接著我們介紹與會官員我們的部長財政部部長莊翠雲莊部長綜合規劃師李瓊林司長國際財政司丁碧蓮丁司長"},{"start":1801.026,"end":1809.951,"text":"處參司李健賢師長人事處游梅子處長會計師李秋威處長統計處蔡美娜處長政風是張宏俊處長法制處處長沒有來嘛那我們黃惠玲副處長律師處楊金亨楊處長國庫署陳伯承陳署長"},{"start":1832.338,"end":1858.578,"text":"稅務屬宋秀琳、宋署長官務屬彭英偉、彭署長國財安屬曾國基、曾署長我們財政資訊中心張文希、張主任財政人員訓練所、許玲佑、許所長台北國稅局、吳蓮英、吳局長高雄國稅局、翁培佑、翁局長"},{"start":1860.034,"end":1886.661,"text":"中區國稅局樓美中樓局長南區國稅局李亞金理局長北區國稅局局長李怡惠理局長我們臺灣金融控股有限公司董事長沈榮金 沈董事長總經理魏江林 魏總經理"},{"start":1889.1,"end":1905.606,"text":"臺灣營養董事長與傑琴呂董事長司馬力總經理臺韓人壽有限公司董事長張志宏張董事長總經理劉啟勝劉總經理臺韓綜合證券董事長許慈美許董事長謝秀賢謝總經理"},{"start":1917.992,"end":1942.522,"text":"臺銀證券有限公司董事長許石美徐董事長臺灣綜合保險經濟有限公司董事長歐新祥歐董事長總經理何明堯何總經理臺灣土銀公司董事長謝娟娟薛董事長何英明總經理"},{"start":1945.168,"end":1972.94,"text":"趙鋒、金控、雷仲達董事長、蕭玉梅總經理第一金控董事長、邱月琴、邱董事長趙鋒銀行總經理、胡光華、胡總經理第一金控董事長、邱月琴、邱董事長"},{"start":1974.717,"end":2000.478,"text":"陳芬蘭總經理第13銀行總經理李嘉祥李總經理華南金礦董事長張迎鵬張董事長總經理李耀清李總經理合作金庫金礦董事長董瑞兵董董事長好我待會補我待會補董事長還有華南銀行總經理黃俊志黃總經理"},{"start":2004.09,"end":2031.138,"text":"合作金庫合作金庫的總經理陳美竹陳總經理合作金庫商業銀行董事長林衍茂林董事長總經理蘇佐正蘇總經理張瑩董事長林中元林董事長總經理周曹崇周總經理台灣中小企銀董事長劉佩金劉董事長張智堅總經理"},{"start":2035.865,"end":2062.182,"text":"中國輸入銀行理事主席戴登山戴主席總經理謝富華、謝總經理台灣研究公司董事長丁彥哲、丁董事長總經理林士傑、林總經理財政部印刷廠長王國榮、王廠長官網網路公司董事長張璐生、張董事長總經理高國豐、高總經理"},{"start":2065.953,"end":2094.907,"text":"中央債保公司董事李一芬臺灣金聯公司董事長施俊吉斯董事長臺灣金融資產服務有限公司董事長陳美如陳董事長臺北金融大樓總經理朱立文總經理臺灣金融聯合都跟有限公司董事長林旺根人董事長"},{"start":2098.357,"end":2102.703,"text":"好以上按照今日的議程安排由財政部業務報告現在請財政部莊部長進行業務報告"},{"start":2112.813,"end":2135.972,"text":"主席、各位委員先進、大家早安今天貴委員會召開第11屆第1會期全體委員的會議本人應邀率本部主管同仁列席並提出業務報告以下請就中央政府總預算、收入的編列還有執行情形以及近半年重要的施政績效和未來的施政方向以及重點來進行報告"},{"start":2137.893,"end":2144.835,"text":"有關中央政府總預算112年度的執行情形在稅路部分我們實收數有2兆8993億元達成預算數的112.4%那就這個稅路來源的部分我簡要做一個說明最大宗的就是稅客收入我們實收數有2兆4883億元達成預算數的113.4%"},{"start":2163.22,"end":2174.684,"text":"主要是綜合所得稅、營業稅、政交稅、營利事業所得稅以及關稅增加的緣故在營業營餘及事業收入的部分時收數達到2541億元達成預算數的是96%"},{"start":2180.486,"end":2182.107,"text":"至於在規費、罰賠款、財產收入還有其他收入實收數達到1569億達成預算數的是130.8%在融資性的財源部分我們舉借債務的預算數是1732億元由於稅務執行優於一期所以我們全數並沒有舉借債務還本原來的預算數是1110億元"},{"start":2206.409,"end":2222.362,"text":"我們也全數執行完畢並且增加還本150億元全年總共還本1260億元中央政府總預算在113年度的編列情形做以下報告在稅路的編列是兩兆7252億元稅出編列兩兆8519億元稅出稅路的差短有1267億元加計債務還本1150億元以及融資需"},{"start":2233.43,"end":2233.991,"text":"總預算舉債佔稅出比例5.5%"},{"start":2250.649,"end":2253.231,"text":"我們並記當年度的前瞻基礎建設計劃等四項特別預算那麼合計的舉債的預算數是3569億元預估113年底中央政府一年以上公共債務未償餘額是6兆8092億元"},{"start":2267.422,"end":2272.243,"text":"一年以上公共債務未償餘額的實際數是五兆九千六百三十八億元占前三年度明目GDP的平均數是百分之二十六點四"},{"start":2295.45,"end":2309.675,"text":"接續報告本部近年重要的一個施政績效陳蒙貴委員會的協助我們順利完成了所得稅法第17條防誤稅條例的部分條文等修正案我們透過不斷的優化稅制減輕民眾的租稅負擔同時也完成全民共享普發現金6000元還有強化國有財產管理以及運用多元引導推動促進民間參與公共建設"},{"start":2320.718,"end":2336.563,"text":"以及推展國際財政以及官務的合作並且在兼顧便捷以及效能之下我們提供安全快速通關服務都具有相當的成效相關的資料也請各位委員參閱我們的書面報告第三頁到第二十頁"},{"start":2337.463,"end":2362.668,"text":"最後我要跟各位報告我們未來的施政方向以及重點首先國庫業務的部分在多元籌措財源維持財政穩健方面我們會橫租國內外的財經情勢多元籌措預算的資源支應政府各項的施政以及建設我們會克遵公共債務法以及財政紀律法嚴格控管年度稅率稅數的差短以及財務的比例維持財政的穩健"},{"start":2365.709,"end":2380.014,"text":"在加強地方債務控管方面我們會按月監管債務的情形敦促地方政府改善債務的狀況同時我們會透過考核輔導以及教育研習等等方式來協助爭域地方的"},{"start":2381.041,"end":2395.036,"text":"自治財源在強化公股股權的管理方面持續督導落實執行ESG的倡議平台執行方案包括經濟金融服務業公平代課的原則並且以貨品前20%為目標"},{"start":2397.498,"end":2422.608,"text":"以及多元開發優質普惠金融商品等等達成金融永續發展政策目標在督導公益彩券發行方面除了適時辦理相關活動來提升銷售來增育社福的財源以及穩定經銷商收入之外我們並且要落實發行銷售等等的規範來健全市場的一個秩序維護公益的形象"},{"start":2423.228,"end":2440.952,"text":"在付稅業務方面我們會營造友善的付稅環境為了增進扣繳義務人的權益保護等需要我們修正所得稅法為了掌握營業人開立電子發票的情形保障交易相對人取得合法憑證以及維護消費者對講的權益修正營業稅法"},{"start":2445.013,"end":2468.892,"text":"為了落實納稅者權利保護法的意旨我們會修正煙酒稅法等這些法律有關財閥倍數的一些規定在優化報稅繳稅服務措施方面我們今年5月會進一步的精進綜合所得稅網路申報附件上傳的服務另外在今年11月起我們會新增房屋稅、地價稅還有使用牌照稅補徵案件線上繳稅的服務"},{"start":2472.054,"end":2479.138,"text":"在促進國際財政合作的交流方面持續地會推動與經貿關係密切國家來洽簽租稅協定並且擴展我國執行稅務用途資訊交換的網絡以及透過參與國際組織還有與理念相近的國家積極的合作提升我們的國際能見度"},{"start":2492.446,"end":2501.215,"text":"在關務業務的部分我們要持續的推動關務法規的合理化以及配合我國和馬紹爾經濟合作協定關稅減讓的承諾等修正海關進口稅責並且發展AI稅責分類的服務方面從113年在114年我們會建置完成有關稅責分類輔助系統以及"},{"start":2515.969,"end":2518.55,"text":"以及稅責查詢系統減少徵納雙方的爭議。在深化雙邊以及多邊官務合作部分配合臺美21世紀貿易倡議的首批協定定定相關的行政規則並且和經貿關係密切的國家"},{"start":2531.736,"end":2548.891,"text":"恰簽稅務付諸協定,促進跨境貿易的安全以及便捷。在國產業務的部分,我們會積極推動國有、非公用、不動產、接管、管理、改良利用等各項的業務增進管理效能,並且以多元的方式活化運用資產,帶動相關產業以及公共建設的發展。"},{"start":2552.754,"end":2560.739,"text":"在促餐業務的部分我們會適時檢討相關的法規命令並且研修作業手冊以及範本等來完備促餐2.0的法制環境並且透過強化輔導以及考核作業提升促餐推動的量能以上是財政工作的重點報告承蒙貴委員會的協助以及督促讓本部的各項業務可以順利的推展並且能夠有所成效"},{"start":2578.47,"end":2596.719,"text":"去年的瑞士洛杉瓦管理學院公布的2023年世界競爭力年報我國的財政情勢進步了4名而達到了第6名主要是反映政府持續減少舉債以及增加還本顯見近年我國的財務管控良好"},{"start":2597.239,"end":2620.284,"text":"落實財政健全受到國際的肯定未來本部將會持續秉持著為民服務的精神在兼顧財政穩健以及經濟發展的需求下努力推動各項財政的業務共同為我國長遠的發展打下堅韌的基礎敬請各位委員支持以及指教使財政工作能夠更真完善謝謝大家"},{"start":2621.164,"end":2641.601,"text":"好 謝謝總部長現在開始詢答先做以下宣告每位初期委員發言的時間為8分鐘必要時延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言的時間為5分鐘必要時的延長1分鐘那今日上午10點30分呢截止發言登記現在依照登記順序請登記第一位的林德福委員質詢"},{"start":2658.466,"end":2674.117,"text":"謝謝主席與會的莊部長還有這個所有與會的官員各位董事長、總經理還有我們各位同仁以及媒體記者、女士先生是不是請那個莊部長有請莊部長委員好部長你好部長我請教因為對於娛樂稅、貨物稅、印花稅"},{"start":2686.124,"end":2709.564,"text":"有很多委員在院會執行的時候都表示這三種稅務是不合時宜的稅制那對此行政院長陳建仁回應說任何稅制的改革都需要中央以及地方一起來研議那財政部的理由則是影響地方的財政那我請問部長"},{"start":2711.666,"end":2737.256,"text":"對這三種稅制的檢討財政部是不是認為三種稅務完全沒有修改的空間是不是跟委員一項一項說明第一個就是印花稅的部分那印花稅是屬於地方稅那是屬於器具的稅那麼它的一年收入大概有170億是地方非常重要的財源我們邀請地方政府來開會他們認為說這個地方是他們非常重要的一個自籌財源他們反對廢紙"},{"start":2738.977,"end":2744.759,"text":"這是地方稅,我們必須要尊重地方自治以及它的財政自主那至於娛樂稅的部分當然隨著經濟發展以及娛樂活動的項目總統有些改變是可以檢討那當然我們也認為說在項目上也許可以做一些檢討在稅率的上限上也可以檢討或者是說我們授權給地方政府的某種逃避但是行之有年財政部幾乎是奴奴不動"},{"start":2762.785,"end":2768.146,"text":"我們其實都很積極一直跟地方政府在討論你認為在哪些條件下才有檢討的空間呢我想這個分開來談比如說委員提到貨物稅的部分貨物稅的部分其實現在的一個課徵是有一些導正一些消費行為比如說在汽機車的部分或者是節能電器的部分買節能家電其實貨物稅可以減徵然後在電動車跟電動機車貨物稅其實前面"},{"start":2790.811,"end":2810.787,"text":"希望引導消費者走向節能減碳當然貨物稅我們會看著整個碳費的執行情形我瞭解我等下就需要跟你探討這些這個來做研究對那個部長因為時空環境不一樣你不能把過去那一套一定會得用到現在不可是"},{"start":2812.208,"end":2837.204,"text":"應該要調整要改進部長國際在推動全球最低的稅賦制財政部互稅署署長去年也表示說因為因應全球稅改方案以及兩大支柱的進展財政部滾動式的檢討這些相關的稅制那我請問部長全球最低稅賦制的推動是不是只會影響跨國企業呢"},{"start":2838.104,"end":2856.019,"text":"全球最低稅負值主要是在於跨國企業的集團他必須要達到一定的一個稅率否則他就可以補徵稅那在這個部分財政部也在關注世界各國的一個推動情形那我們也在研擬相關的方案那你認為我們中小企業會不會受到影響他全球最低稅負值他有一個門檻應該是全球的稅達到"},{"start":2861.069,"end":2882.183,"text":"對以及還對對中小企業這個部分我們在研擬方案的時候也會再考慮那個部長因為媒體報導財政部考慮差別的稅率可行性也就是年營收達到GMT門檻門檻者再調高稅率以保障中小企業不受影響那"},{"start":2885.978,"end":2912,"text":"請問部長採用GMT門檻作為全球最低的稅務制的適用的做法你認為會不會扼殺有競爭力的中小企業壯大的可能會不會我覺得我們在研擬相關的方案的時候我們會根據各國的一個推動情形以及各個企業的一個體質以及他的狀況來做一些研擬然後避免有所衝擊"},{"start":2913.061,"end":2932.311,"text":"因為本席認為說目前在全球化發展下中小企業所處的環境除了要生存要成長還要面臨各種的挑戰那政府應該對行之有年的稅制要有重新檢討的必要因為"},{"start":2933.411,"end":2955.445,"text":"財政健全不只是只有節流更要有創造開源的這些精神才有永續發展的可能你認為呢認同委員的一個意見那我覺得稅制當然也要與時俱進對啊你要時空環境不一樣當然要與時俱進那當然地方政府的意見依然是要我們要參考"},{"start":2957.438,"end":2976.128,"text":"我們整個臺灣經濟尤其是我們經濟研究院院長張建一去年表示說影響明年景氣互輸最大不確定的因素是通膨那臺灣景氣要完整而且要全面性互輸預估要等到明年的上半年那部長"},{"start":2977.048,"end":2991.532,"text":"我請問你因為媒體有報導財政部累計前2月出口估計、估算將正成長6.6%至8.6%而且財政部認為景氣復甦的趨勢是不變出口春暖花開的時間點是落在3月到5月那我請問部長媒體報導"},{"start":3003.995,"end":3024.17,"text":"財政部認為景氣復甦的趨勢不變本期再確認一次財政部是不是認定景氣已經脫離谷底了是不是已經脫離谷底了跟委員報告我們的景氣跟我們的出口值會息息相關那從去年的第4季開始我們的出口已經成為正成長"},{"start":3025.331,"end":3027.832,"text":"今年1月出口值也達到371.9億美元那是歷年同月的次高在1月份那你認為是不是脫離谷底我們認為已經從谷底上來了那3月開始就會好轉是不是應該會逐步的好轉那當然國際間的一個情勢仍然它有一個不可預測的因素在裡面"},{"start":3050.297,"end":3065.126,"text":"對,所以說本期要請教說到底這個好轉是短期的現象還是全面性的復甦呢?以目前來看它是一個平穩而且溫和的一個復甦部長,因為台金院民間預測機構認為國內應該會呈現U型的這個復甦但U型底部會持續稍微久一點的時間而且復甦啊"},{"start":3076.67,"end":3093.834,"text":"還要看整個國際到底有沒有這些需求所以說部長國際主要預測機構都認為說今年的經濟將會受到美國跟中國不足啊美中不足全球受累的影響那美中兩大經濟體分別"},{"start":3096.135,"end":3105.743,"text":"面臨消費以及投資的不利因素的困擾呈現美跟中不足請問部長你認為美中經濟體的負面狀況對台灣到底有沒有影響"},{"start":3115.441,"end":3138.296,"text":"當然會有因為我們是以出口導向的國家那美國也好中國大陸也好都是我們出口國家那當然這兩個國家的一些科技的角力還有地緣政治的緊張都會影響到我們的出口但是目前來看全球的貿易值是往上平穩的上升那這對我們的出口是正面而且我們對美國跟東歐洲國家的出口其實也一直在增長"},{"start":3139.161,"end":3164.912,"text":"那你認為從財政部進出口統計的面向來看臺灣對美國中國的這些經貿統計是不是有受到衝擊有沒有在美國其實是成長的而且尤其是我們的AI電子車用的電子等等這些新興科技其實在美國部分我們是成長蠻多的一個比例那如果要是沒有衝擊那是不是代表臺灣可以置身事外"},{"start":3166.64,"end":3187.995,"text":"在這個國際的經濟情勢裡面沒有任何可以置身事外的那如果要是有衝擊你認為政府企業要怎麼樣來因應美國跟中國經濟體的變局呢其實美國跟中國的經濟體的一個角力這個時間已經有一段時間那我們的各個企業其實他們都已經有在做一些應變的一些措施包括這個"},{"start":3188.835,"end":3211.288,"text":"有關這個供應鏈的布局然後再都有一些改變我相信這個部分大家都會有一些觀察以及應變的措施這樣齁部長根據財政統計的通報112年出口前50名的廠商占差不多一半以上的數啊都是出口五年來集中度提升12.6%齁"},{"start":3213.709,"end":3226.868,"text":"的百分比那部長前50大含瓜、晶圓代工、IC設計、封測等這些電子業那石化、鋼鐵、筆電、面板"},{"start":3229.251,"end":3235.435,"text":"這些產業大廠及運輸物流出口的占比已經從38.9%提升到51.5%那我請問你認為出口持續集中這些特定產業讓我們整個對這個國內經濟發展"},{"start":3247.102,"end":3252.745,"text":"您認為這是好現象嗎?根委員報告確實我國在國際間的競爭優勢是以電子資通訊的產業是最強的因此我們的出口結構就高度集中在電子零組件還有資通訊產品那再加上這幾年的因為這近年的AI的新興應用的商機蓬勃所以我們的出口就會集中在這個部分那當然產業是不是過度的一個集中是不是一個好的現象"},{"start":3273.556,"end":3301.112,"text":"當然是目前來說是也非常好的也非常那個持續的延燒對我們出口值的成長有很大的幫助但是會不會承受相關的一些風險也會高那我想這個部分經濟部跟國發會都有在評論那個部長央行理監事會曾經討論產業結構過度集中啊這些問題如果由出口集中現象來看請問部長在解決產業結構過度集中的問題上政府是不是做得不夠"},{"start":3303.916,"end":3323.968,"text":"這部分經濟部一直都在輔導相關的產業轉型跟升級然後提升國際的競爭力都一直持續都在做那你認為這些對整個國內經濟成長未來會不會產生一些衝擊呢當然會有一些正面的效應喔這樣喔 是好 我時間到 其他下次再問 謝謝是 謝謝委員謝謝林德福委員的質詢接著我們請吳秉二委員質詢"},{"start":3342.97,"end":3347.313,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部莊部長有請莊部長委員早部長早因為臺灣雖然現在的這個電子產業尤其是晶片這個AI產業等等非常的發達可是我們臺灣從過往的歷史來看我們中小企業"},{"start":3372.349,"end":3398.965,"text":"的穩健跟成長一直是我們台灣經濟的一個亮點如果跟韓國這種國家比起來的話在蘇貞昌院長當行政院長的任內他改變了這個對於銀行公股銀行的考評其中有一個很重要的就是對中小企業的放款因為以前可能說我對大企業"},{"start":3400.117,"end":3414.24,"text":"一次借幾十億小企業、中小企業可能借幾百萬幾千萬那我還不如這個大企業做一家所放款的金額比中小企業做上百家還要大"},{"start":3415.558,"end":3439.49,"text":"所以以前如果是用金額來作為評估績效的時候那會政策上面引導就使得大家比較忽視相對起來會比較忽視中小企業的貸款那我想請問喔 孫政院長離院之後現在是陳建仁院長在當行政院長這樣子的政策跟這樣的評估有改變嗎?"},{"start":3441.206,"end":3469.6,"text":"跟委員報告確實您提到蘇院長那個時候對我們公股、行庫各個銀行對於中小企業的金融資源是非常支持不能只是以金額而是以件數因為跟大客戶做一件可能小做100件可能大家都不願意去做這個小額的所以有這樣考評而且甚至用秘密課的方式來做來做偵測那其實財政部對於中小企業的一個金融資源持續在做我們推出了千億振興方案以這個我們的以公股、行庫自有資金以6000億"},{"start":3470.7,"end":3470.9,"text":"總共有33700多戶"},{"start":3484.585,"end":3508.484,"text":"部長我現在要問的是說跟那個時候比起來你現在的這個評比的標準有改變嗎?沒有變大家的成績有比以前更好嗎?我們在這邊當這個成績的比較我剛剛提到就是我們的一個總數以及加數也非常的多而且我們是以中小企業還是微型轉型升級這個我想這個部分這個對象是非常明確的"},{"start":3509.229,"end":3526.158,"text":"好 那先暫停一下主席是不是請公股行庫的董事長上台說明一下他們請時間暫停 請各公股行庫董事長上台說明目前放貸的情形對中小企業放貸的情形跟以前的比較"},{"start":3554.341,"end":3577.411,"text":"來,哪一位先?台營要不要先?我想我就不一一針對我就這樣子請教各位董事長以前在對中小企業的這個放款有一段時間我知道是很受到中小企業的稱讚那比例也真的增加很多那現在跟那一段"},{"start":3578.467,"end":3589.247,"text":"放款對中小企業比例很高的那段時間比起來你認為你現在對中小企業的放款仍然持續這個政策而且有增加的可不可以拜託請你舉手看看"},{"start":3593.247,"end":3606.921,"text":"請放下來那就是大家都認為說自己的行庫對於中小企業的放款持續關心而且持續認真在做而不以金額作為標準那這樣很好謝謝你們請回座謝謝"},{"start":3616.035,"end":3631.26,"text":"我想我要這樣問的原因是因為我們台灣這兩三年來尤其是電子業方面的欣欣向榮還有各項的產業其實有的增加了包括在綠能包括在生技"},{"start":3632.16,"end":3646.748,"text":"當然因為有中國這個他只管生產沒有管競爭的那一些鴻海的競爭的產業這幾年是相當相當不好那中國產能一開出來台灣的跟他因為那都後面有很大的政府補貼那一部分是辛苦的"},{"start":3648.018,"end":3668.957,"text":"除了那個不論之外其他的行業我是覺得都很不錯不過我們在整個行業很不錯的時候我們就是要重視要讓中小企業能夠得到更強健穩固因為大部分的就業機會是在中小企業這個行業上面部長不知道你贊不贊成這樣的想法沒有錯是的中小企業是我們非常重要的一個經濟發展的主幹"},{"start":3671.879,"end":3692.788,"text":"既然這樣台灣這幾年經濟有成長經濟的成果我們政府施政都是希望能夠讓更多人能夠來共同享受所以我們以前有一個中小企業發展條例它對於這個經濟指數達到一定的狀況之下如果對於本國級現職基層員工加薪"},{"start":3695.728,"end":3721.361,"text":"那它加薪的部分扣底可以到130%嘛對不對可是這個今年就要到期了先請教財政部對於這個經濟部的想法說要延長它的適用期間不知道你贊不贊成這個部分我們跟經濟部已經討論也會第一個會同意而且對於相關的門檻跟條件認為也應該要放寬讓更多的企業可以適用"},{"start":3722.833,"end":3747.316,"text":"其實重點是在這邊,因為以前訂那個法律的時候很奇怪是訂一個事業比例要高達多少以上那事實上台灣這幾年來的經濟成長是我們的失業率很難達到那個標準只有在民國2006年2007年就是民國95年民國96年的時候曾經有這樣的使用以此的"},{"start":3748.893,"end":3767.107,"text":"條例實施了這麼久總共金額才六千萬然後因為百分之百三十獲得利益才一千五百多萬一千七百多萬所以這個有定跟沒定一樣幾乎用得到的人實在太少了所以你說這個放寬的條件第一個"},{"start":3768.488,"end":3781.477,"text":"這個要失業率達到多少以上這個比例是不是要拿掉因為跟我們剛剛講的我們是希望經濟發展的果實大家共享如果你還定說一定要失業多少以上的時候我這個才能啟動那這個達不到我剛剛這樣講的目的這個不知道你贊不贊成"},{"start":3785.28,"end":3785.74,"text":"財政部提供相關的意見"},{"start":3804.959,"end":3833.409,"text":"據我內部的瞭解原來加薪可以折算企業成本的130%你們也打算折算到150%嗎?那台灣就業尤其是領薪水的這個階層常常抱怨就是說薪資他們認為是不夠的但是我們同一個時間企業卻在大幅的獲利包括我們的稅收都大幅增加你看你今年的報告今年光是"},{"start":3834.989,"end":3853.58,"text":"昨年光是跟預算數相比光稅負的部分又多增了2900多億對不對那可見還在蓬勃發展那今年開春以來股市也一直成交量一直放大那個交易稅也會增加所以我是覺得"},{"start":3854.821,"end":3870.452,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":3871.427,"end":3890.186,"text":"讓員工能夠加薪讓壽星階級的稀水能夠增加這樣子的話所以我希望你們在訂這個政策什麼時候會送到立法院來審目前在那個經濟部正在預告當中那預告完他會送到行政院然後再送立法院因為4月底就要截止嘛所以一定要在這個時間以前"},{"start":3891.207,"end":3918.501,"text":"那送來這個會期來得及嗎?因為你那個5月19屆期你這個屆期是5月幾欸那你送到立法院來立法的時間這樣子是否夠充裕我們會讓他追溯然後做一個接續這樣那趕快跟各界溝通啦好最後就你的報告我有一個第二頁你今年的收入比預算數多很多去年啦提供最多的"},{"start":3919.491,"end":3926.498,"text":"是歸費、罰賠款還有財產其他收入你的預算是1200億結果實際收1569億超過369億達到130.8%這裡面增加的主要是哪裡?如果是罰賠款那原因在哪裡?"},{"start":3943.242,"end":3960.582,"text":"這個部分我們是不是在了解因為有時候罰賠款它是一個不確定的一個因素那增加最多的是事實上是財產收入財產收入增加最多的原因是什麼財產收入國產署的地上權的標售地上權的權利金的收入"},{"start":3961.448,"end":3979.218,"text":"如果是這個話那還可以接受啦但是我們大台北地區超過500平方公尺上的土地現在其實不能飆售了是不飆售的對但是因為知識收入也是屬於財產收入的一項那地方政府跟中央政府這個態度之間的差距就變成地方政府可以賣中央政府不能"},{"start":3980.615,"end":4004.857,"text":"會不會有這樣的問題內政部現在正在協調內政部正在協調地方政府因為那屬於受締當然是屬於地方自治的事項內政部會去跟他們協調另外還有一個常常被詬病的就是說您標售土地的時候您那個市讓得標的價格都遠比原來的市價要高造成房地產不停地在拉高因為成本墊高就會拉高這個價格這個問題有沒有想過要怎麼樣解決"},{"start":4007.799,"end":4021.37,"text":"對啦,那個標售底價有的時候會就是說,因為他一定要拿到底價高才能買得到嘛,所以有時候這個公有土地的標售會成為一個定貓的效果。但是那個制度,制度你如果是用標的,在競標的時候本來就會加價才標得到。"},{"start":4023.331,"end":4041.617,"text":"我們現在國有土地幾乎都不標售了都不標售那因為大面積不標了嘛然後以設定地上權的方式那目前設定地上權的方式國產署也開始用比較主動的方式也就是設定產業配合國家政策比如說我設定這個產業而不是過往只是按權利金的高低來做競標這個如果要改變"},{"start":4044.741,"end":4045.341,"text":"謝謝吳秉仁委員的質詢 接著我們請賴氏保留委員質詢"},{"start":4075.861,"end":4082.065,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進我們有請財政部的莊部長有請莊部長委員好你早啊我想先請問你啊這個稍微停一下吧這電腦把我問出來等一下喔等一下我們時間暫停"},{"start":4135.805,"end":4137.186,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":4163.939,"end":4165.72,"text":"財政部的立場是怎麼樣?是說要繼續維持這樣子"},{"start":4186.577,"end":4189.74,"text":"跟委員報告是在營業稅法裡面是規定那個2%的金融營業稅"},{"start":4202.611,"end":4203.031,"text":"提供的資料"},{"start":4224.164,"end":4228.887,"text":"因為在103年為了財政健全方案的時候說這個3%部分結繳國庫那在討論我想這個部分呢我們跟金管會也都一直在密切的一些討論因為這個稅額稅制的部分第一個我們會收集國際間對於金融這個業的一個相關的稅收不管是營業稅或其他的稅整個加錢整個目前來說它稅務是怎麼樣這個各個金融業的一個稅負的負擔"},{"start":4250,"end":4250.44,"text":"主席李卓人議員"},{"start":4270.253,"end":4289.218,"text":"這部份就是我們必須還要再跟金管會的聯誼因為他今年底﹖你找他你找他不會啦我們兩個都是互相的在密切的討論外面有兩種聲音啦外面有兩種聲音啦第一個聲音說他說營業稅都5%為什麼金融業要退回去給他講可是金融業有講說"},{"start":4295.792,"end":4309.828,"text":"全世界金融業的營業稅沒有這麼高因為它沒有鏡像可以扣那個5%是因為有鏡像可以扣它沒有鏡像所以不應該這麼高這兩個稅你怎麼樣對 所以跟委員報告我們會跟國際間的其他的他們的稅賦來做一個比較什麼時候會有答案"},{"start":4317.476,"end":4344.743,"text":"會有答案啦那我想我們會跟金管會持續的努力還是還是因為你現在是看守那個你不要做決定了就拖給下一任部長沒有我們一直都在相關的資料收集跟討論那我問你之前可以出來嗎這個我沒有辦法做這樣的一個確定討論的不要那麼久啦討論這是很大的事情欸是這是很大的事情欸對但是因為時間一直到12月底嘛嗯"},{"start":4347.022,"end":4370.45,"text":"我們看到美國眾議院在1月1通過了台灣租稅的協定就是讓台美關係往上升台美可以互相免重複課稅的事情這個事情你掌握得怎麼樣參議院還要通過、眾議院通過、參議院還要通過再總統簽署"},{"start":4374.111,"end":4383.379,"text":"是,我們一直持續的密切關注跟駐美代表處以及外交部那這個部分就如同委員的簡報上1月31號美國眾院已經通過了那還要經過參院的通過那參院通過以後要經過總統簽署以後我們跟美國還要做一個國際文書的交換我們要承諾我們提供"},{"start":4394.329,"end":4423.24,"text":"互惠平等的一個租稅減免那這樣就可以生效那當然因爲參院這個地方還在做研議所以審議當中所以並沒有時間上我們當然會密切的一個關注那我們的駐美組表會議在溝通這個事情竟然中院通過了而且老實講這也是美國對外對台灣的一個承諾我的猜測在他們的總統大選今年11月之前應該可以搞定"},{"start":4424.23,"end":4449.11,"text":"有同意嗎?你同意董災社嗎?我們希望,我們也非常希望這樣,是。非常希望就是說這個事情?對。因為這個審議老實講也沒有什麼太了不起的,因為它是放在其他的案子裡面,它不是,它並不是寫你是中院這樣子可是參院出來的,不是是什麼勞工什麼法案裡面租稅的減免什麼之類的,放在那個。"},{"start":4451.052,"end":4470.253,"text":"對對放在那個案子裡面的裡面才談到這一段也談一小段對對有是其中的項目啦但是目前它並不是說有一個法案是這個法案不是那個是美國有一個法案但是呢會牽涉到有關於台灣的這個要租稅的相關的這個"},{"start":4471.855,"end":4480.859,"text":"免重複課稅放在裏面他是一個專章他們的國內稅法裏面有個專章還有一個授權法所以我們會持續的關注也會跟住美代表處跟美國財政部再鋪許一下吧我想他們選舉也需要這個要華人的票嘛這個東西董事長是蠻重要的好我們再看這個二位有關心的這個"},{"start":4501.138,"end":4524.587,"text":"根據我關入署查的資料現在最夯的一個慈安的一個庭屋叫蘇丹宏結果我一看嚇一跳沒有看的不知道 看了嚇一跳一百一十一年 一百二十二年一百一十二年你看蘇丹宏一號到四號總共數量多少一百六十公克啊一點點啊這麼少"},{"start":4527.697,"end":4540.205,"text":"我再查另外一個資料才看到了番薑酥就是等於辣椒粉啦辣椒粒啦這個呢就不一樣喔3000多公噸等於300"},{"start":4543.607,"end":4564.474,"text":"三百萬公斤了因為一公噸等於一千公斤了所以然後現在看到有高雄關的地檢署查哇不得了查兩家公司有三萬結果查到三萬這是多少這是三百零一萬公斤了他只有查三萬公斤而已我現在問你這個你沒吃到多餘喔"},{"start":4565.52,"end":4584.762,"text":"海關來的話從海關大盤商、大盤小盤商到食品業者每一個階段都有發票對吧來來來部長是不是如果正式的正常應該有發票這個部分我是關於署跟或者是複稅署回答一下複稅署來來來回答一下"},{"start":4585.814,"end":4593.949,"text":"都會發表對不對?大概委員如果他進口他有去申報我們講的業缺關稅我們就會有發表他進口進來絕對是有申報啊然後大盤商他賣給"},{"start":4599.656,"end":4599.836,"text":"李中階﹖對﹖"},{"start":4617.446,"end":4633.522,"text":"我覺得現在的衛福部還有所謂的死案集團這個迷思其實我們財政部可以提供很大的幫助給他發票給衛福部相關的發票資料給我們地方政府的衛生局發票的資料"},{"start":4635.283,"end":4653.683,"text":"他們幫忙攻擊,很快就抓到了,否則現在人心惶惶啊,大家想說哎喲我整個天去吃那個大方銀雞啊,去吃三回,啊裡面會有辣油,吃一包一包,吃到肝就不知道要怎麼樣,而且保留發票,他說消費者保留發票啊,他說球場用的"},{"start":4655.465,"end":4673.336,"text":"委員我想這個部分 委員很重要 所以發表資料我們可以提供給衛福部去做事可以吧 請你主動提供給衛福部 主動提供給各縣市政府告訴他們說 這個可以幫助你攻擊去抓到還有哪一些蘇丹農"},{"start":4675.737,"end":4698.994,"text":"可以嗎?馬上做喔!就是回去就做了喔!這個絕對是有幫助的喔!要不然呢現在檢察官查了半天就查了3萬你現在3千有301萬公斤勒不要去看那個只有什麼蘇丹農蘇丹農今天一點點而已我們看下一頁那品名的部分我們跟衛生部再討論"},{"start":4702.123,"end":4709.065,"text":"過去大家有關心的有很多國家隊我就舉3個雞蛋國家隊補助了34億綠門國家隊補助了256億電動大客車國家隊補助了600億請問這些帶給國家多少的銀索稅"},{"start":4723.541,"end":4745.949,"text":"我沒有做這方面的統計你統計一下可以嗎?回去統計國家對我們要去了解一下這個補助出來疫情期間他沒有免稅喔還是要繳稅的喔我們去了解一下這個行業別是什麼來了解一下可以嗎?我再告訴你們資料其實你們財政部都有資料"},{"start":4747.009,"end":4763.174,"text":"按照如果沒有那個的話就按照書面你們抓他的獲利是8%因所所以20%所以就是1.6%這個呢Google一下都有這樣的資料我就告訴你你們是可以這樣懲罰的就1.6%最後一題最後一題你那個剛剛那個資料啊"},{"start":4767.735,"end":4776.761,"text":"部長,剛剛那個資料兩個禮拜內給我可以嗎?可以好了好,最後一點也是很重要的今天八大航庫都在這裡我們軍公教加4%義營、台積營、核庫、華營都是4%張營張營沒有4%喔"},{"start":4794.844,"end":4811.224,"text":"他用搶金的方式指揮張雲董事長在不在啊?你們來一下我證明我怎麼知道?趙鋒他平均要4.5%比Average高了24%台銀跟土林是因為另外的制度那就不在這裡面了張雲"},{"start":4814.405,"end":4830.655,"text":"這個就不調底薪我就請問部長要不要責成章文啊真的這些老公員工都很辛苦啊大家打拼了你就不要用什麼獎金高手那個另外算但是你調薪就調底薪可不可以這個是不是我們讓董事長說明一下可不可以"},{"start":4833.648,"end":4855.566,"text":"報告委員其實我們每一年都有調薪因為我們的薪資的制度跟其他的行庫的標準不太一樣因為其他的行庫他們都是用這個直擊的方式那每年就會自動調薪但是我們是整體性的調薪另外我們也希望說透過獎金的方式對同仁的那個獎金公會在意的很簡單大家都很清楚"},{"start":4856.704,"end":4884.661,"text":"你不要放底薪會影響到他的退休金啦就是這樣而已啦 差在這啦所以你回去研究一下好不好這是很多的 其實是不僅僅只有張穎啦大家所有的航空的勞工都有這樣的心聲啦你今年的話其他的航空都調四包 下一次說不定委員會看贏嗎下一次看張穎這樣子他學張穎來個通通調獎金那感覺不好 感覺不好好不好 謝謝"},{"start":4887.052,"end":4888.673,"text":"主席有請莊部長請財政部莊部長"},{"start":4908.157,"end":4922.456,"text":"委員好部長好部長在您的這個報告書像說未來的一個施政的重點當中呢有特別提到優化報稅的一個服務嗎還說推動官務合理化法規合理化"},{"start":4923.317,"end":4949.605,"text":"昨天本席剛好有去台北關去進行這個考察在考察的過程當中我們就發現了一些相關的問題就教於部長特別現在呢這個國貿網路公司自從這個1億位實名制之後已經高達526萬那也整個電商產業的這個數字跟金額也是攀升的速度非常之快非常之高這種情況底下我們卻發現一個問題就是說呢"},{"start":4952.466,"end":4977.854,"text":"在跨境電商民眾在進行消費的時候有三種狀況的情況底下他必須要退貨一個是商品損害第二個呢他呢基本上呢是建廠期裡頭不滿要退貨第三呢是受到詐騙的這種情況但是這裡頭都出現一個問題當他已經被磕碎的時候他進行退稅的時候欸手續都非常的繁瑣這手續多少多繁瑣嗎那個部長"},{"start":4980.65,"end":5006.763,"text":"總共要填寫8份表格包括調換、進貨、免稅、申請書、委任書、身份證、政法面具、竊結書等等總共要8份之多那8份之多還要繳一筆公證費用高達6千你也知道這種B2C的電商產業所消費的金額都不太多往往幾千塊你還要繳6千還要填8份然後"},{"start":5007.463,"end":5020.992,"text":"往往有一些民眾去問相關單位的時候說這沒有辦法這是國外的快遞公司的問題這沒有辦法部長真的沒有辦法嗎目前電商產業已經發展這種情況沒有什麼辦法來面對從B2B的狀況變成B2C的一個狀況對於這麼多500多萬在銷售這種狀況沒有辦法嗎你不是要優化你的AI優化這個報稅沒有優化退稅嗎你不是要把這個報關的部分合理化嗎那這個部分"},{"start":5037.202,"end":5037.382,"text":"主席"},{"start":5046.529,"end":5070.999,"text":"報告召委有關於這部分謝謝委員的提點那的確誠如委員說的這個快遞貨物因為它量很大但是它的金額非常小我們不能跟一般的海運貨櫃那種形態提名又再過去B2B的概念嘛對不對因為一般的公司行號人員配置多對不對它有辦法這樣相當的人力跟人才可以進行這些業務的申請"},{"start":5072.179,"end":5080.806,"text":"可是呢一般的民眾哪有辦法你一大堆方式你報稅可以減稅你通關可以減化但是你退稅就是沒有減化"},{"start":5082.708,"end":5107.139,"text":"市長,我另外也請你好好去了解一下這幾年來關於這些電商產業他因為他退貨沒有辦法退稅你預估一下多少好不好?怪不得我們的整個這個稅收會超過113%我們綜合所得稅剛剛部長你在報告的時候你的科稅收入會這麼高這恐怕也是原因之一啦"},{"start":5108.26,"end":5126.685,"text":"整個產業形態的轉變你們並沒有跟著轉變你們只有繳稅A化A化繳稅變節化但是退稅沒有變節化恐怕部長如果說你要站在這個角度來思考的話你應該把所有關於退稅的這個變節化都要一併思考而不是只有繳稅變節化部長你能不能承諾本席"},{"start":5127.598,"end":5129.499,"text":"市長請回部長我就教你一部分"},{"start":5147.33,"end":5170.329,"text":"你知道最近的這個勞工個人賬戶制在整個股票的部分每一個勞工可以增加5萬元的收入因為股市的擁擠那有許許多多的這個相對高薪的勞工原來提撥6%要加了6%所謂的這個個人賬戶制開過一個投資賬戶的方式長期持有方式在日本的部分叫NISA"},{"start":5170.749,"end":5187.529,"text":"這VISA的制度當中他們已經行之多年從2014到現在而且經過三次調整金額越來越大本席又看到今年你報告的當中你這一個那個主席我們資深委員吳秉仁這位說不要抄真我用抄收好了你抄收的113%每年抄收這麼多"},{"start":5190.112,"end":5208.012,"text":"我們能不能在整個面對超高齡化在明年超高齡化的社會來臨而且我們2050年我們的超高齡化程度可能會比日本更加嚴重而我們的社會安全體系需要一個更完整的架構特別是個人理財的部分比較缺乏的情況底下有沒有可能引起這一套制度?部長"},{"start":5210.195,"end":5233.853,"text":"謝謝委員日本為了鼓勵個人的長期投資跟資產累積他實施這個NISA而且有一段時間那2024開始新制那對於這個新制呢我們和我們國內的一個相關的一個稅制都做了一個比較比如說投資的額度資本利得的怎麼課稅鼓勵所得課稅我們做一個比較但是比較以後我們發現其實我們現行的稅制一般的稅制這個部分其實是比日本更為優化"},{"start":5234.634,"end":5235.034,"text":"與此各別的投資人"},{"start":5253.406,"end":5277.629,"text":"本期是要跟你談制度面的喔。是制度面。就是說簡單的講以個人 賬戶制的部分它適用於目前的一般的受僱者可是一般而言非是一般的受僱者當中並沒有一個長期的賬戶account在那邊放在那邊固定存款而透過類似這一種基金代鈔的一種概念變成一種定期定額的這個概念的方式而達到這個免稅的一個效果"},{"start":5279.57,"end":5288.977,"text":"目前為止只有我們6%裡頭有免稅6加6部分有免稅其他的部分的投資者當中他如果透過長期的部分有沒有辦法有這樣的優惠"},{"start":5291.618,"end":5317.797,"text":"你們之前的說法是除稅除虛的部分有免稅你們對外回答的說法是這樣子所以說你們不想要辦這個制度我想這樣子好不好那個我們第一個我們現在做一個比較當委員提供提的是制度面的也就是說我存了以後有貸鈔的基金類是貸鈔的部分我想這個部分我們是不是再來做一個進一步的研議麻煩你進一步很清楚的研議而不是呢站在一個只想要增加這個稅收的一個角度"},{"start":5318.337,"end":5341.553,"text":"不論財政部本位思考我再跟你講一下你這幾年的綜合所得稅的達成率每年都超收你看到去年為止還128%所以說這種情況底下我們是不是一定要透過這種制度我們是不是應該思考一下透過這種制度的方式來減輕人民的一個負擔而增加這個社會安全體制的一個建構"},{"start":5342.173,"end":5353.165,"text":"是,我想這個委員這個建議我們來做進一步的詳細演繹來提出那個多久時間要給本席?是不是容許我們兩個月好嗎?好,兩個月,OK好,接著那個"},{"start":5354.955,"end":5372.123,"text":"部長最近有三家公股銀行聽說要進行董事改選一個是第一銀行、兆豐還有台企銀那三位董事長都在這邊嘛董事長三位董事長能不能請一下好像是剛好這三家都是6月14號嘛"},{"start":5373.463,"end":5399.549,"text":"那是比較巧的是6月14日如果開董事會的話那個部長根據公司法192之1條董事會必須在25天前公告董事候選的資訊那財政部最晚就是等於是在520要提出人選等於是新內閣就任的時候人選都已經出來了你確定那個新內閣對一個董事的這個人選沒有一個政策上的指示或一個做一個調整嗎我不是說個別的人選"},{"start":5400.469,"end":5426.951,"text":"我了解委員這個6月14日要改選所以要提出相關的名單那我們部裡面也已經把現任的董事的名單就把它籌集以後那未來要怎麼提新的名單因為有時間的限制而且要公告嘛時間的限制我們會一定當然不能因為說520要改組就不提還是會要提的剛好就是520欸可是我要說的是如果依照公司法第170條你知道今年6月底前開股東大會就好為什麼一定要6月14號呢"},{"start":5429.332,"end":5445.106,"text":"6月14日是好像原來就定了對啊為什麼一定要6月14日呢你依照公司法你知道6月底以前就可以啦所以我意思是說你現階段而言而且依照證交署的公告你3月15日以前你都還可以變更董事會好"},{"start":5448.408,"end":5470.553,"text":"是不是要更改6月14日?你們應該思考一下在法的規定當中6月底前就可以召開你為什麼6月14日?6月14日剛好報的名單就是520就是完全沒有一個轉圜的空間你不覺得應該有一些阿索比讓新內閣當中對董事的人選是一個統一的標準的調整有一個政策上的思考轉圜的空間是不是有可能?"},{"start":5471.453,"end":5472.634,"text":"三位董事長請三位董事長上台"},{"start":5502.866,"end":5504.95,"text":"那個趙鋒你們是6月14"},{"start":5507.588,"end":5533.777,"text":"6月21然後你們提報什麼時候提報提報那個我們董事的人選可能更早是可能更早就要提報囉所以說也不一定可以依照日期你們是提早作業啦是如果推估的話也不一定要這麼早嘛對不對那這個部分是不是還有一些容許有一些調整的空間我們來檢討看看好不好檢討看看好不好那其他兩位董事長呢"},{"start":5538.055,"end":5540.537,"text":"我們的董事會也是在6月21日6月21日股東會議員也是21台慶"},{"start":5550.251,"end":5571.619,"text":"報告委員我們也是6月21日那所以說我是提早一個禮拜了那事實上還有將近10天的一個阿蘇比的空間嘛你請部長回去思考一下最後我再暫用半分鐘部長你知道那個台我們現在的CPI核心CPI的數字還是居高不下這種居高不下的情況底下我們這個黃小玉的部分有沒有可能繼續延長這個關稅上的優惠"},{"start":5573.8,"end":5600.03,"text":"現在有關的關稅、貨物稅跟營業稅有一些免徵的部分到3月底那是不是在持續延長這個行政院的穩定物價小組會做討論如果確定以後財政部就配合辦理什麼時候討論?現在3月底呢?剩下沒多久?這個日期我還沒有,手上還沒有你們趕快處理一下好不好?現在已經上旬了,快中旬了謝謝謝謝郭國文國委員下一位請李燕秀理委員質詢"},{"start":5610.333,"end":5611.258,"text":"謝謝,我是不是可以請莊部長?有請莊部長"},{"start":5618.464,"end":5642.976,"text":"委員好部長早安昨天我關注總質詢的時候陳建仁陳院長有回應說我們今年超增稅收是3617億元決定要做一些台電跟勞保健保的優先規劃要撥補這樣的規劃跟政策方向部長你到底清不清楚"},{"start":5645.566,"end":5664.616,"text":"到底有沒有討論過跟委員報告有關我們的稅收超過預算數的部分就我們財政部來說第一個就是減少舉債第二個就是增加還債其他就累積到稅基剩餘至於這個到稅基剩餘或在國庫裡面有多少錢去怎麼配置的話部長我時間不多你直接回應我到底因為昨天院長已經講了在院會已經有宣布要撥補台電勞健保"},{"start":5672.26,"end":5680.828,"text":"這個政策方向是不是真的?院裡面到底有沒有開過會?你到底知不知道?我們是籌編稅路的部分你完全不知道方向?今天已經3月7日"},{"start":5688.734,"end":5694.378,"text":"昨年我們普發現金的時候1月12日就已經決定這個超徵的稅收要怎麼花今天已經3月份了你到現在還不知道?還是說有前幾年的時候決定要普發現金我們1月份就可以知道超徵的稅收要怎麼處理"},{"start":5710.467,"end":5723.895,"text":"但那今年因為沒有選舉年到現在到底這個超生稅收明年要怎麼去處理是邊路稅入剩餘在做後續的處理還是要你完全沒有方向嗎還是要跟委員報告稅出的部分是主計總處的執掌部長我覺得因為這個我為什麼會這樣子問所以你完全也不知道說到底要撥補多少你完全沒有方向也不知道"},{"start":5739.773,"end":5768.586,"text":"那你台電要撥補多少錢?沒有討論過,你連聽都沒聽過這是行政院會在討論的,是你都沒有參與相關的會議我沒有參加部裡面沒有任何一個人參加那難道陳建仁院長在質詢台上講出來的話都沒有找過主計處財政部開過會嗎?跟委員報告主計總處的執掌至於主計總處有沒有參加那是要主計總處才知道"},{"start":5770.685,"end":5790.25,"text":"部長也就是說你完全不知道那我知道啦就選舉年的時候決定那個那個普發現金的時候才會找你們競速的跟委員報告普發現金那是整個強化社會韌性跟經濟韌性那當時有個特別條例以及特別預算的排列那今年113年的預算已經都籌編完畢了"},{"start":5791.73,"end":5812.819,"text":"今年整體上來說人民也講說這兩三年都是過去20年來經濟成果最好的時刻人民可能不這麼想今年決定要怎麼做大家都在看我為什麼這麼說因為今年下個月開始我們就要經濟部要開始開這個電價審議委員會剛剛有前一個委員郭委員有討論到我們CPI的物價指數其實已經高到1.85你知道人民CPI人"},{"start":5819.082,"end":5831.796,"text":"民眾忍受的最高的期限是多少嗎我想民眾對民眾來說物價的穩定是非常重要的那人民的忍受度最高你都不知道這個忍受度每一個人也不一樣"},{"start":5834.179,"end":5836.32,"text":"你是財政部部長欸這個數據現在是1.85人民CPI忍受的期限是2.0你知道一個電價如果按照過去大概維持電價調整10%的話你知道對於整體CPI影響大概多大嗎?"},{"start":5852.606,"end":5858.631,"text":"當然會有影響因為電價調整尤其對於所謂的部長你如果身為財政部部長對於這些重要的數據統計跟相關的預測數據你都不清楚的話如果在討論這些相關電價到底調10%、15%、20%對人民稅收還有包括剛剛在討論的負稅、關稅今年要不要持續的有優惠的減免"},{"start":5877.885,"end":5887.831,"text":"這些都是環環相控的議題你現在回答我不知道我覺得這件事情讓我不可置信你知道嗎接下來回答我時間不多我還是要問你說3月底到底要討論的電價的這個議題到底你認為撥補多少是一個合理的數據跟委員說明有關電價的調整還有審議委員會在審議那他們會根據相關的數據來做討論"},{"start":5907.703,"end":5929.339,"text":"但是撥補多少都會影響CPI的指數你同意我講這句話嗎?撥補多少第一會影響到電價審議委員會到底要調整多少對不對那這後續也會影響到CPI的指數我這個邏輯你同意嗎?同意你可以不了解這個相關的經濟預測指數但是這個是環環相扣的數據影響所以部長你要搞清楚不是520之前"},{"start":5936.804,"end":5955.214,"text":"大家都等著結束然後什麼都不管放的都不管欸部長我覺得今天你在這邊你跟我講這個是主計處的時候你不知道第一我覺得有一個可能你沒有說實話第二個大家都等著520下班什麼都放的不知道因為我覺得"},{"start":5957.511,"end":5979.651,"text":"第一決定撥補台電多少這會影響到電價審議委員會決定調整多少第二第三後面接著就會影響CPI的指數所以照你今天回答的方式我非常的不滿意因為我認為大家都不夠用心還是大家混著等著520下榜我覺得委員這樣說是不公平每一位在職的都是用心盡心盡力的在工作"},{"start":5980.091,"end":5983.692,"text":"至於我覺得這個數據跟你後續有關係我覺得你應該更主動的去了解就你今天回應我的我個人我是不滿意啦但是我覺得部長要更用心去了解到底要撥補多少因為到底健保要撥補多少"},{"start":5998.436,"end":6025.477,"text":"老闆要撥補多少台電要撥補多少因為這個後續對於CPI的預測影響台電要漲多少對於你後面CPI的影響其實也是有影響的所以我覺得這些經濟數據我覺得無分組技術你這邊其實都要精準的掌握住才對這才會拿到人民的感受度到底多少你們應該是長記在心裡部長因為我今天有第二個問題要問也非常重要部長你住在新北市對不對"},{"start":6027.252,"end":6034.48,"text":"我是好那個你有沒有朋友或你自己了不了解我們現在的包租代管"},{"start":6037.619,"end":6061.718,"text":"社會正義裏面含居住正義居住正義裏面的包租貸款是我們現在我們社宅很重要的一環因為我們不可能有那麼多的土地去蓋社宅你同意嗎包租貸款政策做得好像很重要好你知不知道賴清德跟蔡英文他們個別當時承諾的社會自主住宅到底有多少戶應該達到多少戶18年是20萬戶有自有興建賴清德要達到多少"},{"start":6066.542,"end":6068.203,"text":"現在總共多少戶?這個數據第一個就財政部來說包租代管我們全力的協助"},{"start":6081.971,"end":6085.212,"text":"臺北市包租代管的業務的戶數遠低於其他的直轄市原因在哪裡?部長你知道現在一坪在新北跟臺北租金"},{"start":6109.946,"end":6121.373,"text":"你住新北,那你知道新北的租金一坪大概是多少錢嗎?這個我沒有數據。一坪大概在新北是902塊,在台北的租金一坪是1603塊,在桃園是702塊,台南我就不再念了,我的PPT上面有。所以我們現在是一萬五千塊以下可以免所得稅、課稅的部分。"},{"start":6137.964,"end":6166.337,"text":"所以我更認為如果居住正義要更落實的更好包租代管的業務非常非常的重要所以我認為在所謂一萬五千塊免所得稅的課稅的這個政策是我覺得應該要有各縣市差異的不同你同意吧因為我剛才講的在台北市你可能一萬五你可能只可以租到九坪到十坪嘛"},{"start":6168.317,"end":6186.828,"text":"在新北你可能可以出更多但是你的包租代管業務就沒有辦法做得更好我覺得居住正義是所有政黨都在推動如何去落實無論賴清德或蔡英文的政策落實社會正義居住正義我覺得在這一件政策上"},{"start":6187.918,"end":6211.845,"text":"我覺得我們就要各縣市差異化的政策來推出來課稅每一個縣市不一樣你同意我的邏輯嗎跟委員在這裡包租貸款除了房東的每個月有15000塊的所得稅免報繳所得稅之外另外還有就是他的費用的就是裝修費用的部長也提高他的比例我只剩下15秒另外房屋稅跟地價稅也有減薪我現在在幫助"},{"start":6215.226,"end":6240.023,"text":"蔡英文跟賴清德落實居住正義我們怎麼樣把包租代管政策落實得更好所以我提出來在課稅的政策上應該要有各縣市的差異化的處理方向你同意我的說法嗎目前來說是一萬五那至於這個部分要不要做各縣市的差異化我覺得我們可以跟內政部來做討論"},{"start":6241.775,"end":6245.037,"text":"因為這個在住宅房裏面規定因為這個在住宅房裏面規定因為這個在住宅房裏面規定"},{"start":6268.232,"end":6288.061,"text":"請財政部跟內政部會後討論之後送給李委員一份資料好不好你同意這個方向我要演繹嘛好你演繹好那我就告訴你我下個禮拜我會提出相關的政策法律上的調整我也希望有機會讓你們來支持謝謝委員謝謝李燕秀委員的質詢接著我們請王世堅委員質詢"},{"start":6306.194,"end":6312.715,"text":"麥克風謝謝主席我請財政部有請莊部長我今天要問你的問題其實那天你來我研究室禮貌性拜訪的時候我有跟你還有幾位署長都有提到過我認為這個上位政策"},{"start":6334.9,"end":6353.832,"text":"必須先談清楚那因為你是執行單位我當然是必須問你也就是說關於裕隆汽車那麼這兩年來他們大量進口中國籍零件拼裝而成的"},{"start":6355.928,"end":6369.134,"text":"這個MG車輛那這個MG的品牌大家都曉得它本來是歐洲英國的車輛那十幾年前這早就被中共那邊買去啦那買去了之後我先談我們裕隆啦"},{"start":6370.305,"end":6396.196,"text":"玉龍這70年來受到我們政府的保護那麼我們一直期待玉龍能夠當我們國家我們產業我們工業的龍頭帶領我們那麼能夠工業升級那至少能夠有做出好的引擎、好的車輛能帶領我們供應國人以外還能夠去外銷"},{"start":6397.932,"end":6422.233,"text":"但是讓我們覺得很難過的是這70年來玉龍的表現那我相信多數民眾都很清楚嘛那麼在政府重重的保護之下我們希望他能夠帶領我們去外銷結果他完全外銷不出去任何一部車好啦"},{"start":6423.502,"end":6449.093,"text":"七八年前開始說那要不然去賣賣賣給中國好了中國那邊的市場可能要求當時也沒那麼高那玉榮也想方設法也去了結果部長我們希望玉榮帶領我們反攻大陸結果反攻不成他現在反而幫中共來木馬屠城天吶"},{"start":6451.308,"end":6480.507,"text":"他竟然把中國零件在我們台灣來拼裝組合出來假借這個是國產車的名義大肆的幫中共的汽車來傾銷那這也是敗財政部之事你們可能背後有什麼政策啦要求你們哪後這我等一下請你說明一下"},{"start":6481.834,"end":6498.887,"text":"就是說因為你們保護裕隆那只對其他的進口車來加徵關稅、貨物稅幾十年來都這樣了我們藉由"},{"start":6500.29,"end":6517.984,"text":"加徵其他國家進口車的關稅或戶稅來保護裕隆結果裕隆這個阿斗保護了他70年我現在就要問你們了我們還要保護這個阿斗保護多久啦不是很奇怪嗎那更可怕的是什麼"},{"start":6522.915,"end":6550.543,"text":"更可怕的是什麼現在不只是MZ這個品牌我覺得這個可能中共藉由裕隆他牛刀小事試水溫投石問路看看這樣子銷售的怎麼樣能不能蒙混過我們國家我們台灣的政府跟我們台灣的消費者蒙混過了之後"},{"start":6551.892,"end":6580.646,"text":"我相信他們實隨之謂後續還有更可怕的事情要發生就是電動車現在電動車當道未來也是個趨勢這是好的那中國別的不敢說他真的電動車啊他現在在世界的產量他是獨佔凹頭啦光是這個比亞迪他佔盡市場的優勢跟便宜所以"},{"start":6581.687,"end":6592.571,"text":"我們很強烈的很畏懼就是說如果藉由裕隆引進MG中共車輛這個模式未來啊"},{"start":6596.616,"end":6620.945,"text":"大量的引進中國的電動車就是這樣中國這個電動車的零件進口然後在台灣組裝在台灣組裝說這個國產車那我們要保護我們的國產車啦所以啦這樣又一保護二保護保護到中共他們製造的車輛幫中共賺錢就對了"},{"start":6627.359,"end":6653.956,"text":"幫中共賺錢賺這個錢給我們的敵人中共去買更多的飛彈來對準台灣來威脅台灣嗎?這是很荒唐很奇怪的事情嗎?所以部長你先談一下到底我們面對我們長期以來保護的禦龍他現在大量的引進中國車的零件"},{"start":6655.237,"end":6671.027,"text":"在我們台灣組裝假借它是國產車的名義來躲避關稅或誤稅得到這樣的保護占盡了這樣的便宜以後這個模式你認為對或是不對再來那我們如果讓它繼續引進中國的電動車那怎麼辦?你的看法呢?"},{"start":6682.645,"end":6702.125,"text":"委員確實對於關稅的部分他主要還是有涉及到產業政策就是剛剛委員一直提的就是說對產業的一個避免我們國內產業受到衝擊所以有這個那至於現在我們的進口車的關稅是我們因為我們是WTO的會員所以我們在加入WTO的時候我們有做一個關稅"},{"start":6703.687,"end":6708.291,"text":"檢讓的一個承諾所以我們從入會的民國91年從稅率調為29%到10年後逐年調降到17.5%所以稅率一直維持到現在稅率一直維持到現在那至於您剛剛提到就是說這個汽車的一個關稅是不是要討論這個部分我們也"},{"start":6723.888,"end":6728.351,"text":"請教了產業的主管機關經濟部那經濟部的意見是認為進口的小汽車的關稅稅率我們相對的17.5%以及比鄰近沒有自由品牌車輛製造的一些國家來比較低了而且我們的整車零組件的製造產業的程序的一個發展是有些影響所以他們認為說目前的關稅稅率要維持我想這個部分是產業主管機關的一個意見"},{"start":6754.209,"end":6763.247,"text":"要保護裕隆這個不是另類的保護裕隆的方式嗎那如果裕隆自己生產製造我們沒話講喔"},{"start":6764.639,"end":6783.092,"text":"不是嘛!他完全大量的引進中國汽車的零件在台灣組裝所以啊部長我再正式再問你一下那我們所謂的國產車的定義啦定義是什麼現在的定義很鬆散啊"},{"start":6784.553,"end":6806.679,"text":"欸零件沒關係哪邊來的不管就是在台灣組裝就叫做國產車欸那這個這個定義太鬆散不打起這個圖利了裕隆不是這樣嗎那現在圖利裕隆他大量的引進中國製的車子等於也圖利了中共欸還有這個未來這個電動車電動車非比油車欸"},{"start":6813.571,"end":6840.371,"text":"電動車有投資的問題他車輛鏡頭收集的投資部長我們國家為什麼禁止向中共採購無人機這就是為了國家安全不是嗎同樣啊如果裕隆以AMG這個品牌的模式再大量的引進中國電動車類似比方說BRD好幾個品牌啦"},{"start":6841.873,"end":6855.476,"text":"然後他們的電動車進來這暴露了我們國家的徒資這涉及國家安全問題而且還傷腦筋的嘿!現在比亞迪最大的死敵是誰?"},{"start":6856.98,"end":6879.895,"text":"當然就是自由世界這些我們自由世界製造的電動車啊不是嗎?結果我們高關稅高貨物稅對進口自由世界國家我們這些友邦的車啊用這些把他擋住品質好的友邦的車擋住然後我們對於裕隆的保護讓他來引進我們的敵人中共他們的車輛"},{"start":6881.832,"end":6898.004,"text":"這不是荒唐嗎這是另類的經濟的國安危機所以我在這邊預言如果部長你如果沒有守住這條底線你如果不跟經濟部行政院把這件事情談清楚的話我認為這會是21世紀科技版的木馬圖層記發生了就在我們台灣上演了這還了得"},{"start":6911.089,"end":6933.275,"text":"委員第一個零組件進口也是要課徵關稅至於剛剛委員另外就大陸汽車的電動車並沒有在經濟部的貿易局並沒有開放進口那您剛剛的意見我們會跟轉給經濟部然後一起來研議好不好來關注這個事情好不好然後那個主席我最後強調一點然後假使我剛剛說的那個情況真的發生的話中國電動車大肆進取來台灣的話那"},{"start":6940.12,"end":6941.241,"text":"謝謝王世堅委員的質詢接著我們請王鴻薇委員質詢"},{"start":6980.421,"end":6984.885,"text":"這幾天在立法院裡面除了金夏之間的爭議之外金夏海域爭議還有淘機的糾紛之外"},{"start":7004.463,"end":7018.915,"text":"另外就是現在經濟委員會就有關於電價的部分所以現在大家最關心的電價是不是會帶來了一個物價上漲的壓力剛才李燕秀委員也特別提到"},{"start":7019.736,"end":7022.337,"text":"昨天國發會來報告特別提到就是當時我們為了要穩定物價所以我們從110年的年底開始我們針對了好多項的關鍵的原物料進口包含不管是關稅也好貨物稅也好有做減免我看我們的關務署的署長已經在旁邊"},{"start":7046.627,"end":7050.257,"text":"這個時間是只有到今年的3月31日,就這個月底而已"},{"start":7053.288,"end":7079.878,"text":"大家都知道以今年來說我們這個消費物價上漲超過2%幾乎已成定局因為電價要調超過10%那個對於物價推升推波助瀾的威力是非常大的所以我想請問一下我們關鍵原物料的進口減稅會不會繼續的延續因為只有到這個月月底而已是不是應該要繼續延續請回答"},{"start":7082.919,"end":7102.741,"text":"是,跟委員報告這個機動降稅的部分是到這個月底然後行政院有一個穩定物價小組會就物價的這個情況來做討論那如果是要繼續延長的話那財政部就配合辦理會不會延長這個要等到那個行政院的穩定物價小組討論"},{"start":7104.141,"end":7125.608,"text":"好,我在這邊因為我今天質詢我做做具體的建議和要求我認為要繼續延長而且你們時間應該要早一點講因為已經到這個月月底老師說啦我覺得現在整個的行政院因為在看守內閣因為很多人在搶位子不曉得現在在幹什麼"},{"start":7127.249,"end":7137.538,"text":"對於物價問題你看這個到3月底到現在還沒有討論待會我還會去那個未還那個未服部真的是非常混蛋你知道嗎"},{"start":7138.976,"end":7162.068,"text":"在現在物價大家壓力這麼大的狀況之下還要取消這個掛號費的上限現在怎麼樣要逼死大家是不是所以我在這邊因為那個不關你財政部的事情那我要求關鍵原物料進口以這個減稅應該要延續這段時間正好是關鍵的時候如果配合電價的上漲配合掛號費的上漲"},{"start":7164.309,"end":7188.637,"text":"然後整個的物價蠢蠢欲動一旦勾起整個大家競相上漲那個壓力是非常非常大的是好不好委員這一點我們一定會轉達好那個那個署長你可以先回去好接著齁時間暫停一下我應該走應該還是還是那個部長齁國庫署國庫署署長"},{"start":7202.878,"end":7227.989,"text":"部長你上次有來拜訪我我告訴你我為什麼要進財委會就是我在去年補選擔任立法委員之後我接到很多的投訴是來自於我們的公股事業在我們的公股監控公司我接到最多的投訴就是核庫監控旗下的這個相關的這些機構"},{"start":7229.568,"end":7250.521,"text":"我在最早曾經踢爆核酷AMC案我講過一個董事長把他的什麼侄子啦事業夥伴女兒啊條阿咖阿小三全部都弄進去當然最後呢就全部都走人我想部長非常清楚然後接下來"},{"start":7251.653,"end":7269.363,"text":"我又提報合庫投信他有違反公司治理這個董事長林柏鈺還有當時行銷長有涉嫌違法接受國外基金公司的招待到東京根本不符合相關的規定"},{"start":7270.629,"end":7293.115,"text":"而且相關的人士世上是不停的投訴從核庫的總公司到金管會沒人問問每一次都說沒問題每一次都說沒問題在前兩天金管會主委在這邊他非常清楚的答覆我他們認為有問題因為他們去做專案精簡那麼對於核庫投信他們認為確實有違規的問題"},{"start":7295.896,"end":7323.975,"text":"然後甚至合庫金控我知道今天金控董事長也在這邊合庫金控的集合也有問題同樣一批人查了又查查了又查都說沒有問題廢話如果你要包庇的話你查100次都是沒有問題啊但是一直到金管會去精檢之後發現有問題所以不但合庫投信你要提出報告連合庫金控"},{"start":7324.858,"end":7346.596,"text":"的經檢董事長、總經理你們也可以在這邊聽好怎麼會一個核庫金空會這樣子的濫法呢這個還是我提出來的沒有辦法提出來的還不曉得有多少所以以下這是我的重點來"},{"start":7349.858,"end":7372.173,"text":"在去年我們在審預算的時候我就要求就是說我們這個我們監控過去公股銀行大家都視為金飯碗我知道現場很多都是過去考進去的金飯碗,考進去就金飯碗那其實這個考試呢其實也很激烈"},{"start":7373.598,"end":7401.547,"text":"可是呢我們現在公股機構下面銀行的部分做公開招考比較公開跟透明但是剩下來其他的子公司因為後來才開始衍生的嘛子公司就開始隨便了沒有做任何的公開招考裡面我甚至還被抓出來連筆試沒有筆試啦連考試都沒有經過然後就直接任用了甚至我還聽說"},{"start":7403.571,"end":7429.796,"text":"兩家公司過去我們有一子而食一子而教現在還有什麼呢一子而用我讓大家知道有人在那邊偷笑很清楚啦比如說部長你有小孩我有小孩我用我的小孩進來不好看所以你小孩給我用我的小孩給你用他用這種方式很丟臉很難看"},{"start":7431.181,"end":7455.447,"text":"下面基層怨聲載道今天這麼多的董事長、總經理我若要規劃讓你們全部在後面排排站所以我要從制度上要求我們財政部做制度上的改變所以我上次在組結議的時候就說既然金控你的銀行要做公開招考請問你其他子公司為什麼不要"},{"start":7456.874,"end":7483.977,"text":"其他職公司為什麼不要所以才會有這種任用私人甚至呢一窩子都是你同一個派系一個董事長小三都可以進來耶小三護士來可以進來當副理像樣嗎怎麼會淪落至此所以我在這邊具體的要求我現在財委會這一年我就是要推動這個事情金控下面各位董事長、總經理聽好了"},{"start":7485.905,"end":7501.135,"text":"金控下面銀行公開招考以招公信其他的子公司也應該公開招考以招公信我告訴你裡面的人銀行的人看不起其他子公司的人"},{"start":7502.423,"end":7523.332,"text":"因為人家說我是憑實力進來的啊啊你是憑什麼搞不好是有的人可能是憑實力啊很多人是憑實力啊但有一些是憑關心進來的你為什麼搞成這樣呢我們要讓建立一套制度這個制度不要再發生這樣子的醜聞太難看了可不可以"},{"start":7523.677,"end":7527.219,"text":"對委員的部分我很認同我想委員也知道上次有關核庫的AMC還有投信的事財政部立場就是誠實面對嚴正的處理第一個我們把相關的缺失我們並不隱瞞全部查出來而且要求改善"},{"start":7540.126,"end":7561.379,"text":"那除了這個部分之外而且不是只有這個公司而且其他的全部的公股行庫都要有做制度性的改善那委員特別提到有關用人的部分我跟委員特別說明我們要求各所有的金控或者是銀行下面不管指公司也好他都要用公開公正透明的方式來選用然後用甄選然後你對一個職"},{"start":7565.802,"end":7594.18,"text":"各職級的他要用的經歷學歷都要把標準定出來這個部分都有要求而且做全面性的制度的一個要求所以這個部分委員提的都已經在做了我保證你不用數集記網我這個人不會追殺到底因為現在也有那個非常那個什麼沾沾津津的本分的你未來你用公開招考的部分第一個你的人員的數值提高第二個你防度這些弊端和樂不為"},{"start":7595.04,"end":7598.324,"text":"我請台灣煙酒公司董事長、總經理有請丁董事長跟林總經理"},{"start":7624.26,"end":7643.256,"text":"董事長、總經理 我用快速的你們也很清楚知道我要問什麼就是你們建國啤酒廠改建的部分因為在行政院副院長鄭文燦副院長的主導下你們把原來已經經過從內政部到台北市都審會全部通過的這個"},{"start":7645.838,"end":7662.035,"text":"議案撤回重新來做開發那然後呢把一塊地呢割給了北科大對不對那這個呢引起我們地方的居民周圍居民強烈反彈他們今天下午還在繼續做說明會"},{"start":7663.997,"end":7692.909,"text":"包括文資團體包括員工工會強力反彈我只有跟教育部長說北科大不能做惡靈居不好看但這件事情我知道台九是聽命行事但是我要讓董事長、總經理知道這個案子在地方上極為強烈反彈而且反而會拖延甚至影響你們的改建所以我認為你們還是要好好的處理"},{"start":7693.809,"end":7694.49,"text":"謝謝黃宏威委員的質詢接著我們請賴惠元委員質詢"},{"start":7722.948,"end":7736.423,"text":"謝謝主席我們請部長有請中央部長還有國庫署署長國庫署署長第一金礦第一金礦董事長造風金礦有被點名到請大家主動上來部長早安"},{"start":7743.117,"end":7766.307,"text":"部長我想這個延續在禮拜一就是我們的租賃公司的這個議題那我請教就是部長就是8家的公股、行庫借了租賃業多少錢你有掌握嗎跟委員報告到2月底8家公股、行庫對於融資公司的租賃公司貸款餘額總共是1246億"},{"start":7768.568,"end":7784.198,"text":"一千兩百四十六億那我的資料是一千兩百六十八億那總反正因為總資就是一千兩百多億對不對那這八家公股銀行行庫代給融資公司我們知道他們做了什麼嗎"},{"start":7785.697,"end":7802.325,"text":"我們可以看到了就是說這個貸款的餘額我們把它統計了出來那請問國庫署對於融資的一個主任公司拿了這些一千多億的錢做了什麼有沒有辦法還款你是不是有掌握呢"},{"start":7804.383,"end":7824.623,"text":"根委員報告因為對於銀行在放貸給融資公司的時候他們都會做好落實他們的貸貸後管理所以除了差別借款人貸款資金的實力用途以外也會防止銀行那個資金流入所以就是說基本上他們都是有符合到我們金融業的ESG的一個標準嗎是啊"},{"start":7825.865,"end":7837.899,"text":"這個他們會去檢視沒有錯嘛 對不對所以就是說我們基本上就是說所有就是ESG的一個標準我們銀行的授信以前我們必須要嚴格的去審查"},{"start":7838.953,"end":7865.052,"text":"好,部長,嚴格的去審查在這裡頭我們從這個低金控公告的ESG裡頭有特別特別的強調就是說在授信前的一個那個審查的一個機制的一個流程圖裡頭特別強調公司內控的一個負面的一個議題還有是不是乘坐高爭議性的一個產業我們都要納入風險的評估"},{"start":7866.814,"end":7869.647,"text":"是的是的那個第一金控董事長 對不對"},{"start":7871.784,"end":7900.198,"text":"這是你們自己做的?是,回答委員是的沒有問題?是好那還是一樣再請教部長跟署長目前就是八大公股銀行行庫裡頭是不是都採用相同或是相近標準的做授信前的一個審查?所有公股行庫在授信前都有一定的審查而且它必須符合金管會以及銀行公會所有的授信審查原則都要符合的是,部長"},{"start":7900.97,"end":7912.287,"text":"我跟你講你只要打開你的手機用一個關鍵字只要一個貸款的貸那你全部跳出來的是什麼一台摩托車可以"},{"start":7913.803,"end":7942.28,"text":"借30萬輕輕鬆鬆不用財力證明然後一台超過15年的汽車可以借到80萬你試著操作看看就是業者在換款的額度的一個輕鬆給這些學生然後給這些沒有資產能力比較下階層的這些人那是不是就是禁止乘坐高正義性這個是不是高正義性的產業"},{"start":7944.45,"end":7969.292,"text":"委員是基於保護年輕人他有時候就因為覺得便利就去貸款結果讓自己身上背了一堆債然後造成自己的信用整個就不好了對他人生未來是有影響那這個部分我們在貸出去的時候是給企業戶那至於這個企業戶您可能關心的是企業戶貸到以後錢拿去做什麼用八大公股銀行他們借出去的錢你們做了什麼"},{"start":7970.453,"end":7990.942,"text":"你們說你們都有監控結果租賃公司是從銀行搬了錢然後再做地下錢莊的工作那我們為什麼不管呢為什麼不管我想這個部分讓我們各個銀行在貸款出去以後對的資金用途都會有做貸後管理"},{"start":7992.827,"end":8010.717,"text":"那事實上顯現出來在下一頁部長我再讓你看目前的在這個整個租賃業裡頭的龍頭的話就是我們中租中租的一個財報來看的話我們中租2023年12月底在我們台灣的債權研製力高達2.3"},{"start":8012.498,"end":8020.649,"text":"那這樣換算的話他總金額是90億相較之下的銀行去年12月底的預放率他僅0.1%這個超過23%你怎麼解釋呢?"},{"start":8026.325,"end":8054.521,"text":"跟委員報告那金管會我們跟金管會瞭解他也會將來會約他也會約已經約談了中租、合潤跟裕隆三家租賃業者那麼我們會進一步的會去了解銀行跟這些租賃業者的風險管理那這些公管銀行那個這些公股銀行是歸你管的然後這些人這些銀行提供了錢給租賃公司然後去做這麼多事情那"},{"start":8058.924,"end":8076.838,"text":"委員提出這個問題也是非常重要我們接下來會請我們公股、航空對這些租賃公司的一個融資貸款去全盤了解它的一個資金用途部長,你所有的回答其實基本上都是非常空的土地銀行在下一頁"},{"start":8078.356,"end":8102.14,"text":"土地銀行在2024年統籌就是你們租給那個中租的一個年代案有沒有將中租抵合放高利貸及高顏值的一個顏值利納入風險的評估呢我想這個個案是不是可以由土地銀行來做說明的個案我剛就有請土地銀行要出列了"},{"start":8108.396,"end":8133.531,"text":"所以喔土地銀行你在這裏去年的11頁你統籌主辦了中租抵合三年期那就是貸給他71億那你們講了說支持歷電產業可是你這裏頭連帶的還有兆豐還有和庫還有華蘭對不對是那你有沒有去追蹤呢報告委員這些錢是真的放在歷電產業還是"},{"start":8135.948,"end":8149.524,"text":"送到中國大陸去了報告委員我們當初籌組這筆聯貸案它的主要資金用途去它是去建立這個太陽能的電廠所以是完全符合綠色綠電的一個產業你有追嗎當然是這是貸貨管理最重要的一部分"},{"start":8154.229,"end":8177.981,"text":"是,好,那這樣子我跟你講甚至我在土銀我下一次再請教你所有你借出去的錢你借給租賃公司的錢它是不是有到中國去這個也是要再跟你特別再做一個我們再做一個探討所以在這裡我要跟所有在現場的我們所有的這個相關在金融的一個機構裡頭"},{"start":8179.963,"end":8196.881,"text":"一、S、G這個S就是社會責任我們是不是有幫世界人小民就是在擋呢他們背著一個高利貸一台摩托車可以借到30萬一個學生他在他需要買手機他需要買"},{"start":8198.41,"end":8225.499,"text":"好的包包他需要怎麼樣怎麼樣的時候然後他輕易的借到了這些錢然後他的銀行的信用就是變成是這樣的一個負債永遠還不完這個ESG我們有沒有盡到這個社會責任啊顯然就是說在每一個每一個領域裡頭你們全部都講說那個推來推去推來推去那怎麼辦呢"},{"start":8226.899,"end":8251.946,"text":"這個租賃公司越來越大尾他也可以是當鋪也可以是銀行那從銀行搬錢了那你們在這個錢授權給他的時候你們也非常的慷慨那他輕鬆的在公股銀行搬到錢了然後就做這些高利貸的工作那怎麼辦啊無法可管"},{"start":8255.387,"end":8284.8,"text":"部長回答我是謝謝委員的提示我想這個部分代後的管理非常重要也就是資金的流向我們銀行有時候會專款專用對成立一個專戶做一定的資金用途那這個要至於您剛剛提到就是說租賃公司有沒有把這個錢拿去以後去放高利貸讓許多年輕人不小心就是帶了錢然後造成他一輩子的信用上的一些影響我想我們這個部分會請公股航空特別注意然後對代後管理資金流向都要有所進一步的理解"},{"start":8285.06,"end":8285.08,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":8315.881,"end":8342.96,"text":"我想就是說最後一頁這個部長我想這樣子建議就是說你要檢討公股行庫ESG的一個認定標準那將專業對民眾的一個換款的利率還有就是換款的標準還有顏值利等納入授信的標準以外你千萬千萬不能讓公股銀行成為合法高利貸的一個幫兇顯然你們現在就是幫兇了而你們不自覺"},{"start":8343.78,"end":8364.641,"text":"你們還一直一而再再而三的一直在協助他們公股行庫若是發現以放貸的租賃業從事對學生的放高利貸的一個行為的時候你們是不是可以依契約收回貸款的款項有沒有辦法還有日漸升溫的中國經濟泡沫的一個問題"},{"start":8365.842,"end":8383.626,"text":"公股行戶除了減少在中國的曝險機制以外是不是應該嚴格的追蹤就是我們所有換款的對象是不是有轉投資到中國希望一個業內給我這樣子的一個素面報告謝謝部長謝謝委員謝謝大會委員的質詢待我們顏寬文委員質詢之後呢我們休息10分鐘接著我們請顏寬文委員質詢"},{"start":8404.896,"end":8411.341,"text":"主席各位委員同仁主席我想請財政部長有請莊部長委員好部長"},{"start":8420.783,"end":8440.129,"text":"企業紓困貸款分為振興資金貸款、營運資金貸款就有貸款展延我贊成這些政策對於許多企業度過疫情期間的一些幫助營運資金貸款可以暫時解決員工"},{"start":8442.778,"end":8463.402,"text":"新資以及廠房的一些租金的燃眉之急正新資金貸款能夠幫助受影響企業所需要之周轉性的支出資本性的支出然而營運資金貸款含寬限期僅有3年正新資金貸款含寬限期僅有5年以營運資金貸款為例110年開始貸款的企業必須在今年113年必須要還款"},{"start":8470.205,"end":8496.577,"text":"那112年疫情才逐漸解封等於復甦那等於是說112年開始貸款的中小企業今年他就必須要把他的貸款還清那他所剩下一年的時間這樣子的一個貸款期限是不是對才剛走出疫情的這樣子的一個企業衝擊太大那可不可以請部長先回答"},{"start":8498.154,"end":8515.587,"text":"跟委員報告確實為了要讓企業能夠紓困貸款這個期限目前是延長到113年12月31號那這個部分政府是基於讓他們可以走度過難關所以透過這樣的一個方式讓他們可以鬆一口氣這樣延緩對"},{"start":8519.448,"end":8542.43,"text":"我要跟部長說就是因為像我手上這個部分剛剛過來的時候就在我研究室過來這一邊那就接受了這個業者的陳情那現在變成說因為還款的期限這麼短那許多業者其實在疫情期間他就是咬牙苦撐能夠損益平衡已經是"},{"start":8543.231,"end":8565.319,"text":"非常萬幸了那現在還不容易開始復甦但是時間這麼短所以說已經是挖東搶補西搶先去跟別人借貸來還清要想辦法先跟別人借貸來還清這樣子的一個貸款所以這個部分我想這是目前發生的這是目前正在發生的這是一個非常嚴肅的議題"},{"start":8566.92,"end":8588.966,"text":"那我想希望說有立即的改善的方案這個貸款含寬限期是否可否延長作為通安性的問題來做處理大家都不希望說會再碰到一個大規模的經濟衰退的狀況發生必須要站在百姓跟業者的立場來鑿定政策可不可以"},{"start":8589.52,"end":8609.231,"text":"好 謝謝委員這個部分也跟委員再做一個補充就是說原來是到100今年的年底那如果說他還是有需要展延的話就是要展延腳本金還可以再延長6個月那如果還有這有相關的困難的話我們的公股行庫呢其實持續有下面的一個包含"},{"start":8610.131,"end":8635.065,"text":"協議的償還機制就是企業原來的借款還有續月斬金或分期貪還的需求的話可以和原來的銀行再做一個協議就是個案的協議那另外呢經濟部他也有一個協商的機制那可以協助有營運困難的企業然後紓解他金融機構還款的壓力那防止資金周轉不靈影響到的持續性我想這個部分政府也非常重視那提出相關的機制這樣子跟委員做報告"},{"start":8637.049,"end":8659.839,"text":"再請問消費者物價指數CPI一般定義超過3%就是通貨膨脹那超過5%就是比較嚴重的通貨膨脹根據112年主計總署公布的消費者CPI指數較前次中所稅免稅額扣除這個調整的累計幅度達5.5%"},{"start":8664.742,"end":8673.353,"text":"遠超過調整基準的3%那預計今年度的中手稅免稅額將調升5000至9.7萬元標準扣除額將調升7000至13.1萬元"},{"start":8679.074,"end":8694.199,"text":"我想在這個物價飛漲的年代那減輕人民的付稅是非常必要要做的近兩次調整的時間上上次調整年度是106年111年度適用之平均CPI指數與106年適用之指數相較"},{"start":8699.389,"end":8726.898,"text":"上漲了4.17%再來是本次的113年度那平均CPI指數與111年度適用值指數相較上漲5.5%近兩次的調整累積幅度都超過所得稅法所規定的3%那部長請說明那在這個這樣子的情況要怎麼樣去做改善怎麼樣去做制定跟委員報告就是說"},{"start":8727.978,"end":8742.722,"text":"我們的綜合所得稅裡面的免稅額跟標準扣除額還有薪資所得特別扣除額這些都會隨著物價指數長到某一個時候就必須要做調整所以在我們去年底的時候已經公告了在113年適用的免稅額、標準扣除額以及相關的扣除額一個調整數據都有做調整"},{"start":8748.823,"end":8773.966,"text":"那個會在明年的5月報稅的時候就可以納入那今年呢我們還調高了基本生活費這個基本生活費如果調高的話你的相關扣除額沒有達到這個基本扣除額的基本生活費的話都還可以要到比較高的數據來做扣除所以這個部分對於物價指數的一個調升我們必須要去減輕民眾在出稅上的一個負擔所以我們按照所得稅法的規定都有在做調整"},{"start":8775.553,"end":8799.055,"text":"要減輕租稅的負擔所以我們就是說物價的波動是每小時每天在進行的但是我們免稅的核算是你年度去計算的所以說不論是烏鴉戰爭、以巴衝突還是接下來4月份的電價上漲這些東西都是會帶動CPI指數的一個重要的關係那所以我想"},{"start":8799.877,"end":8807.914,"text":"請財政部在這部分研擬新的方案讓免稅額能夠在最即時的狀況即時的狀況來每年檢討"},{"start":8810.188,"end":8817.251,"text":"因為稅法裡面是有規定要累計達到3%的時候可以做調整這個部分是稅法裡面對,超過了就調所以已經調了那另外跟委員報告為了穩定物價那這個部分在穩定物價小組裡面我們從兩年前就已經對於這個大宗物資的進口像黃豆小玉的進口營業進口的"},{"start":8834.999,"end":8835.98,"text":"關稅、貨物稅這部分每個家庭息息相關的這個"},{"start":8863.114,"end":8867.355,"text":"我們車價的組成包括關稅、貨物稅、營業稅以最近的中國中國大陸整車進口關稅15%南韓8%全球汽車龍頭的日本它關稅零至之美國也僅僅只有2.5%但是台灣要17.5%"},{"start":8893.392,"end":8911.506,"text":"我們的整車關稅是早期政府為了要扶植本土汽車產業要保護本土產業所設下的一個高昂進口關稅但是從2002年加入世貿組織然後一直到2010年調降到現在17.5%17.5%那另外以汽車零件關稅的部分"},{"start":8920.578,"end":8932.303,"text":"要使國產車能夠提高國產車的自製比例而課稅但是如果國產車國產製造商沒有辦法使用國產零件必須要從國外進口然後再來組裝一樣會被課到10%至17.5%的不同的關稅"},{"start":8936.738,"end":8953.485,"text":"那想要請教部長在關稅保護的立場上這個稅率已經不合時宜而且對我國要加入CPTPP這樣的國際組織也會造成阻礙所以對於這個關稅的部分本席認為應該要調整而且要大幅度的調整部長你的看法"},{"start":8955.217,"end":8978.547,"text":"委員非常清楚關稅的一個調整的歷史從加入WTO我們做關稅減讓到現在17.5%一直維持當然關稅的政策除了我們的稅收之外還涉及到產業的政策剛剛委員所提到的幾個國家的關稅非常低甚至是零基本上他們都是自己是製造車的自由品牌的國家"},{"start":8979.147,"end":8982.289,"text":"所以這個部分他們的關稅很低那我們的涉及到產業政策的部分我們也去徵詢過經濟部的意見那經濟部是認為說以我們這個17.5來看的話比鄰近國家他沒有自由品牌車輛的製造的國家來已經來的算的比較低的那如果我們再降低的話可能會衝擊到"},{"start":8999.679,"end":9013.268,"text":"我們整車還有整車零組件的一個製造產業的一個發展永續所以認為是要維持那當然委員您知道就是說如果我們自發性的把它調降那對所以我們必須要適用所有WTO會員國都要讓他們關稅調降那這樣的話是不是對我們國內有相關的衝擊這都要審慎的評估"},{"start":9020.575,"end":9033.829,"text":"我這邊做一個比較那以如果以一台100萬的定價為100萬的進口車那以我國零件製造作為成本計算在加付所有的稅負之後進口車會高達154到160萬那如果說國產車的售價會在131到135萬所以"},{"start":9043.439,"end":9059.379,"text":"以原定價同樣100萬的來做一個比較買一台進口車需要比國產車的稅務增加24萬左右但是又以另外一個來做一個比較以現在市場上賣的最夯的那個TOYOTA的RAV4來比較"},{"start":9060.933,"end":9078.347,"text":"我太太跟女兒都開這種車啦那在美國的報價是2.9萬美金到3.9萬那在日本的話是大概85萬台幣390萬日元那在台灣的話大概是100萬到137萬那以國產車那字節75萬到110萬來做一個比較雖然比進口車便宜但是它等於是可以買到進口車的中階或中高階的車型"},{"start":9090.356,"end":9109.018,"text":"所以大家就是會多數會選擇購買進口車所以現在台灣的進口車的比例還是超過一半以上所以我想再請部長說要跟部長希望說財政部能夠在這個問題來做一個深切的思考來做一個調整這會是一個得證好不好"},{"start":9111.57,"end":9117.873,"text":"謝謝委員,我們可以把相關的資料提供委員做一個參考。謝謝。好,謝謝顏匡恩委員的質詢。那我們現在休息10分鐘。謝謝。"},{"start":9152.005,"end":9181.817,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":9182.541,"end":9199.326,"text":"財政委員會第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2會期財政委員會第3會期財政委員會第4會期財政委員會第5會期財政委員會第6會期財政委員會第7會期財政委員會第8會期財政委員會第9會期財政委員會第10會期財政委員會第11會期財政委員會第11會期財政委員會第12會期財政委員會第12會期財政委員會第13會期財政委員會第13會期財政委員會第14會期財政委員會第14會期財政委員會第14會期財政委員會第15會期財政委員會第15會期財政委員會第16會期"},{"start":9220.947,"end":9246.732,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":9251.061,"end":9251.722,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9286.783,"end":9286.923,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9421.747,"end":9422.088,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9447.984,"end":9448.265,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9491.463,"end":9491.723,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":9550.219,"end":9558.375,"text":"好啊!好啊!好啊!好啊!多年啊!多年啊!哎呀!哎呀!好!好!好!感謝!好!好!過幾年了!好!過幾年了!好!謝謝!"},{"start":9593.679,"end":9594.342,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9669.806,"end":9670.006,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":9721.194,"end":9723.455,"text":"好 我們繼續開會"},{"start":9759.463,"end":9769.293,"text":"接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢請公股銀行各位董事長趕快回座"},{"start":9775.472,"end":9778.675,"text":"好的謝謝我請莊部長有請莊部長委員好是部長我想我們在總質詢的時候我提出幾個問題當然跟財政部有很大的關係第一個當然是所謂的稅制改革包括當天我所提出印花稅、娛樂稅、貨物稅那我最關心的大家也是你知道的"},{"start":9802.847,"end":9823.368,"text":"碳稅這個定價機制當天院長承諾說會針對這個部分提出相關的研議那我想知道目前這個部分你大概什麼時候會給本席一個完整的相關的規劃報告跟委員報告對委員關心的稅制改革我們都很佩服那有關這個"},{"start":9824.737,"end":9852.972,"text":"綠色也就是說碳稅的部分那天也提過就是碳費先行是那後面碳稅那委員也特別提到就是說我們現在我們不能以後再研議應該現在就要研議那這個部分特別跟委員報告我們也一直在收集這個有關國際間對於能源稅課徵能源稅跟碳稅的國際資料所以我需要的是時間對另外我們也委託了台北大學進行一個就是說碳稅接碳費"},{"start":9853.872,"end":9881.851,"text":"然後檢討貨物稅制的一個可行性的研究那這個研究呢預估會在今年的11月30會完成我相信這個研究可以對我們提出很具體的建議你現在在做的事情給我一個時間表我只要你的時間表內容的東西我都知道你們在做些什麼是所以我需要的是什麼時候可以提出這個報告給我第二個就是有關碳稅目前為止去年環境部有答應一個月提出來但是用了200個字那我不知道你的報告會不會只有100個字"},{"start":9883.331,"end":9910.425,"text":"那我是不是這樣子好不好因為這個可行性研究的報告會在11月30完成如果委員需要一個比較完整的話可能要到年底那您如果要知道我們現在在做什麼我們可以把現在的進行的情形跟您做探稅跟探費的過渡期我們沒有時間在等所以第一個你年底要出來如果按照這個時程的確是有點慢了但是我還是認為說稅是國家的工具之一"},{"start":9911.305,"end":9935.574,"text":"碳費、碳稅那是當然跟環境有關但是如果可能在這之前我們有很多的稅制上面是可以同步來做一些相關的規劃可能會更好一點部長我希望在年底的時候會有完整的計劃但是我希望你一個月出來至少把相關的時程表時間表不會是3年5年才會完成碳稅的規範不會吧"},{"start":9938.123,"end":9959.452,"text":"碳稅今年課徵今年才開始明年課徵這個部分環境部也正在做相關的細節的一些我同意財政部雖然不是氣候變遷的主責機關但是我認為碳稅本身就是一種工具像我們在產創條例的部分我們可以用稅額扣抵來引導產業轉型同樣的產創條例對於目前碳減碳"},{"start":9964.847,"end":9990.266,"text":"也成為所謂的減稅的項目之一就好比居住正義用房屋稅各種稅制來協助居住正義的完成也就是說稅在你的手上你可以協助各機關達到他的政策目標的效益會比其他各機關自己在申收他相關的碳費也好會來得更有效你同意嗎我想租稅確實也是一個政策功績所以"},{"start":9991.067,"end":10012.002,"text":"今天第一個就是時間我希望一個月之內給我一個完整的你的時程表不管你要做什麼請把時程表給我我們把我們想要我們要做的事情可以把跟相關的時程提給委員第二個就我剛剛講當稅制成為你的工具之一在企業檢探的活動裡面這些所謂的投資"},{"start":10013.183,"end":10014.564,"text":"委員會提供的方式。我的意思就是說"},{"start":10032.679,"end":10050.545,"text":"激凌碳排、氣候邊遷不會只是環境部的工作財政部作為稅制的主管機關它應該有相當的武器相當的工具可以來協助更多的企業在產業轉型上面在激凌碳排上面而不是只是單純等環境部提出需求"},{"start":10051.225,"end":10076.777,"text":"這件事情我相信部長以你的遠見應該可以往這個方向去做規劃另外慘狀條例的部分經濟部也正在考慮就是把這一部分引進去然後把有關投資抵減把它放進去我們也會一起參與那我想這個部分都是同樣的東西這個也納進來在你的未來稅制改革在氣候變遷跟企業抵減上面應該"},{"start":10077.657,"end":10103.609,"text":"有一個整套有一個只有環境部一個人在講這個部分麻煩也是是不是兩個禮拜之內也可以給我一個跟這個企業減稅、投資、抵減的部分有一個相關的規劃我們因為是產創條例是經濟部主政我們可以跟他聯繫以後看有什麼資料可以提供給委員我的意思是說財政部在金鈴碳排的路徑上"},{"start":10104.429,"end":10130.006,"text":"你可能要更主動一點你用你的稅制的工具可以協助各機關他們在這條道路上面成為一個因為你的稅制的幫助他的推動業務會更方便這第一個第二個就是今天有很多的公股航空都在現場我想部長我們現在在全世界的相關的比較裡面我們的"},{"start":10131.397,"end":10140.406,"text":"台灣的銀行目前為止目前有一個原則是金融控股公司的資產越大它是不是競爭力越強"},{"start":10142.548,"end":10163.297,"text":"當然目前來說國際間確實有大手很大沒錯而且目前為止我們中華徵信所好像提出過臺灣的金控只需要9家然後呢我們現在所有的銀行都沒有辦法排到全球前百大主要是因為我們資產狀況"},{"start":10165.461,"end":10190.379,"text":"超過10兆的只有兩家只有富邦跟國泰那現在我們的公營行庫最好的最大的大概就是台銀但是現在台灣公股銀行的資產市佔率跟民營的銀行民營的金控差很多對吧所以國庫署是所以我們現在的公營的金控"},{"start":10191.923,"end":10195.416,"text":"我們有14間獲利前三名的都是謎"},{"start":10196.889,"end":10223.026,"text":"也就是說公股銀行裡面表現最好是兆豐但是他的成績只有富邦的一半部長如果照這樣的情況下我們的公銀行庫不要說國際競爭了我們現在連國內競爭好像都已經輸了你有什麼樣的看法有什麼樣的解方跟委員報告這有關獲利的部分我們也一直在督促我們的公股行庫能夠做努力所以不管是"},{"start":10223.886,"end":10250.436,"text":"金控的雙引擎還有銀行的雙翅膀都希望他們在現有的一個強項裡面能夠再拓展另外一個強項然後提高獲利但是我們也不可否認的我們的公股行庫也擔負著相關的國家政策的一些任務比如說其他代管所以公營行庫有不同的面向有不同的政策責任但是同樣它還是必須要爭取到更多的獲利跟相關的市占率那現在我們輸給民間的金控"},{"start":10252.777,"end":10272.418,"text":"然後我們又不斷地推動民間的監控並監控所以富邦併了日盛那我們的公營行庫就會可能又他就更大那我們的競爭力又會更弱這種狀況有沒有考慮過或者是說讓我們的公營行庫他有聯盟、連線"},{"start":10275.39,"end":10288.335,"text":"各自不同的長處去做配搭甚至在保障員工權益的情況下考慮公共合併呢?是委員說得很好就是因為其實公股、行戶他們各有不同的強項那跟他們長久以來的一個歷史跟一些專業的投注有關係可以做聯盟、公共合併的方向那至於公股"},{"start":10299.639,"end":10317.41,"text":"公共合併的部分我們認為這個就是要看雙方的一些企業文化經營策略還有優勢的復補及市場定位員工的安置以及據點的採摘等等要從各個面向來討論不管怎麼樣但是都必須要公開透明而且要符合市場的機制我想這個方向是要確定的從國內競爭的角度國際競爭的角度我們的公營的行庫還有公營的這個監控我們的"},{"start":10326.916,"end":10352.439,"text":"競爭力現在遠遠不如民間所以這件事情我覺得如果在財政部的立場幫國家多賺點錢增加我們公營航庫的國際跟國內的競爭力可能會是財政部很重要的任務之一所以公共合併之前有討論過嘛所以是不是也一樣給我一個目前我們針對所謂公營航庫、公營金控我們有可能在不同的"},{"start":10353.32,"end":10353.48,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10369.724,"end":10370.165,"text":"李坤成委員質詢"},{"start":10397.104,"end":10401.287,"text":"謝謝主席請我們財政部莊部長有請莊部長委員好部長好在這個禮拜二的時候呢這個複稅署的宋署長還有跟這個五區的國稅局局長有到我的辦公室來那我有提到一個現象那就是在過年之後呢"},{"start":10418.346,"end":10445.439,"text":"這個好像這個國稅局會針對生意比較好的一些小吃店去做查核但是這個局長都說沒有啦那這個我是認為這個現在的這個統一發票的這個銷售額每月20萬的標準請教一下這個部長你知道這個標準是哪時候訂定的嗎英國75年的時候英國75年訂定的啊到現在有多少年了"},{"start":10446.237,"end":10452.921,"text":"38年了38年定20萬跟現在的20萬價值有沒有差很多我們實施新制的營業稅制以後它是競銷項的稅額必須要做勾結以及扣抵所以我們使用花票是有一個很重要的功能這個我知道我只問你說38年前的20萬跟現在的20萬"},{"start":10472.338,"end":10479.11,"text":"是不是差很多了那當然差很多請教一下部長你知道38年前一碗滷肉飯大概多少錢"},{"start":10482.608,"end":10509.976,"text":"三十八年前的滷肉飯一碗是賣十塊那你知道現在一碗賣多少錢了嗎?我覺得大概都有到五十塊的都有啊對你也知道啊這個三十八年前的二十萬跟現在的十萬差很多三十八年前滷肉飯一碗才十萬塊現在要大概四十到五十啦那結果你這個二十萬的免稅額都還是定在二十萬"},{"start":10511.428,"end":10513.256,"text":"這難道沒有這個要調整的一個空間嗎?"},{"start":10514.687,"end":10536.932,"text":"委員當時訂20萬是因為我們其實應該是以客家執行的營業稅然後用使用發票來做勾結但是如果我們當時又考慮到一些小規模的營業人或特殊營業性質的湯湯水水賣那個什麼豆漿飲料的因為他開發票有點困難所以我們訂了一個平均銷售額每個月20萬這樣的一個標準但是長期以來我們一直是輔導我們的營業人去使用發票因為是去使用發票這個很重要"},{"start":10543.314,"end":10567.927,"text":"那如果說我們把標準如果調高的話第一個對消費者來說消費者長期以來他已經養成一個就是說我消費我就要索取發票那你把他調高那他相對的開發票的商家就少了那民眾減少他可以對講的一個機會這是一個對比要從兩方面來著想一個是民眾拿發票那另外一個對電價來講也是一個困擾啊我已經說過了嘛就當時候的20萬或許來講是高的那現在20萬"},{"start":10572.029,"end":10580.4,"text":"其實很容易就達到了跟委員如果說不開發票他是用查訂銷售額來我沒有說不開發票我是說這個20萬38年前訂的20萬跟現在20萬有沒有調整的空間如果要調整的話那會有我們講的影響嘛"},{"start":10589.312,"end":10589.853,"text":"所以按照部長這樣講就20萬"},{"start":10607.294,"end":10624.89,"text":"會繼續一直延續下去就對了這個沒有調整的空間就對了我們認為應該是維持這樣子會比較合理然後對於整個激增人力的查核上也可以節省剛剛您委員也提到這個38年前的20萬跟現在的20萬標準一樣結果財政部也沒有做任何的調整"},{"start":10626.491,"end":10651.591,"text":"這個已經造成很多小吃店的商家非常大的困擾這個是我們身為民意代表必須要來跟你們反映的那我再請教一下營業稅的起徵點分別是貨物的8萬然後跟勞務的4萬塊那這是95年12月修正的在上一次的修正是在76年的7月到現在95年到現在又隔了19年了"},{"start":10652.071,"end":10672.929,"text":"那當時候調整的理由是說避免通貨膨脹導致小吃戶納稅人稅負加重那所以呢財政部決定參考眾所稅的免稅額至81年到95年的條幅修正小店戶營業稅的課徵這個課稅的起徵點那就是按照這一個免稅額眾所稅的免稅額的調整"},{"start":10675.299,"end":10680.12,"text":"同樣又隔了19年了那這19年調整到第一次75年到現在38年的時間物價指數成長了85%我們眾所遂的免稅額成長了206那我再請教一下這個部長"},{"start":10694.346,"end":10707.884,"text":"這個是不是能夠按照制度化每5年或是10年按照這個物價指數或是這個免稅的成長率檢討營業稅的免徵標準或是我剛提到的免用同意發票銷售的標準"},{"start":10709.378,"end":10725.189,"text":"能不能提出一個公式出來 比如說你現在就38年不調整 那未來10年你也不調整 那總是不調整也是要有個理由出來嘛 不 跟委員報告 這個部分我們已經在研議調整了 要研議調整 對 你就是說這個營業稅免證的4萬跟8萬嗎 就是免證那個8萬跟4萬那個部分 我們會來做一個調整 這要怎麼樣的調整"},{"start":10733.394,"end":10758.211,"text":"這個部分我們會審慎的配合比如CPI的那個上漲情形調整對一樣啊就是跟19年前調整一樣嘛物價指數啊免稅額的這個額度嘛對那查訂的方式也會做一些調整是好謝謝委員我們這個部分會再正在做這很多小吃店跟我們反映的還是要跟你們財政部的所有的官員要再反映一下好謝謝委員的提示好那我再問一下這個跟這個促餐有關係的齁"},{"start":10759.468,"end":10760.888,"text":"市長請教一下我問你這個合約應不應該公開"},{"start":10790.351,"end":10817,"text":"報告委員其實按照合約呢按照所謂的政府資訊公開法是可以來公開的應該要公開按照你們的一個作業指引的規定主辦機關按照政府資訊公開法第7條的規定應該要公開投資契約嘛對不對是的但是同樣在第7條有提到如果符合該法第18條的一些規定好那我問你這個案子應不應該公開"},{"start":10818.673,"end":10839.278,"text":"我們覺得如果能夠把它公開的話呢 可以讓社會大眾比較容易來瞭解那應該要公開嘛 它到現在公開了沒有但是我想也要尊重一下基隆市政府的一個權利啦 這沒有什麼尊重基隆市政府這該公開的資訊就應該公開啊 那你在蘇財政是做什麼的這所有的資訊不是應該公開嗎"},{"start":10841.352,"end":10866.862,"text":"因為基隆市政府我想他我只問你說這個資訊應該不應該公開我到現在書面資料有沒有拿到那我可不可以在網站上面看得到網站上面除非基隆市政府自行上傳否則應該是看不到的所以你一點約束力都沒有剛剛不是講了嗎按照這個政府的資訊公開法他應該要公開嘛對不對"},{"start":10868.001,"end":10880.072,"text":"但是在同樣那一條在第18條也有去提到所以你數三四沒有用啊你沒有用啊我跟你講這個按照這個政府秩序公開法就應該公開你還幫基隆市政府講話"},{"start":10882.234,"end":10909.144,"text":"委員這個部分因為投資契約是假以雙方簽訂的如果他們基隆市政府公開的話該公開的資訊就應該公開部長認為應該要不要公開該不該公開這個要看有沒有涉及到營業機密如果涉及到營業機密當然不用公開對涉及到營業機密的話他就也可以不公開營業機密的部分我沒有說要公開但是應該公開給基隆市議員的部分就應該要公開對不對他現在有沒有給基隆市議員了"},{"start":10913.269,"end":10923.659,"text":"報告委員從昨天的新聞報導裡面他們已經把這些資訊呢公開給委員而且基隆市政府也同意給基隆市議員公開上網公開你是說現在嗎還是未來的所有的出差案至少這個案子啊"},{"start":10932.465,"end":10948.896,"text":"這個案子他們現在已經同意來公開了 所以我們會趕快來做這件事情所以我說嘛 我跟你們要資料要不到 請藉由是政府公開 你們也不敢要求按照政府資訊公開法也應該要公開 到現在蔡先生沒有任何的作為 我現在最後我只要求一點"},{"start":10949.932,"end":10965.646,"text":"你們在2023年有給他這一個基隆市政府關於東岸新的這個ROT案還有訓惡停車場的這一個前置作業有315萬的補助費有沒有包括我有的現在有爭議了現在有爭議了"},{"start":10968.905,"end":10980.817,"text":"那我要求這個第一階段他們90萬已經拿了第二階段跟第三階段的220萬在這個爭議處理結束之前暫緩撥付可不可以做到"},{"start":10982.3,"end":11006.5,"text":"報告委員我想有關這個補助要點的一些規定包括暫停來這個撥款我們有相關的規定我的意思是說現在已經進入司法爭議了那你還要給他嗎委員的意見我們回去再檢討因為其實他是兩個案件一個是東岸停車場一個是東岸一個是新二對所以新二的部分其實如果他還是新二也是有問題啦"},{"start":11008.603,"end":11036.579,"text":"呃...目前並沒有看到有什麼...也一樣啊!簽了20年長約啊!前置是東岸的前置所以齁,處三司啊!到現在為止,一個立法委員跟你們要資料要不到!阿基隆市議員的這個資料已經拿到了我問你說可不可以上網公開你說還要看基隆市政府那當然在現在為止沒有拿到任何的資料所以我要求你這個是有爭議的案件中央的補助部應該下去能不能做到?"},{"start":11038.141,"end":11055.277,"text":"委員報告就這個案子來說目前來說就東岸的部分他有申請前置作業的補助款那前置作業補助款的撥補的方式是有一定的進度一定的進度第一階段已經給了阿對那第二階段的話要看他辦理的一個進度來申請現在就是有爭議阿"},{"start":11057.146,"end":11079.572,"text":"懷疑是前一個案子前一個案子他們跟基隆市政府的一個產權爭議目前已經現在這個違封這個案子也有爭議不是前一個案子是違封這個案子有爭議他現在做的就是違封這個案子的啊違封是另外一個對啊他是另外一個就是這個案子啊你們給他的就是這個案子啊對就是這個案子啊對啊那現在有爭議啊所以本席要求在有爭議的時候就不應該撥補"},{"start":11080.712,"end":11090.961,"text":"我想這個部分我們有相關的要點我們再來檢視一下我們的要點請部長會後跟李委員好好溝通一下好不好相關文件備起好謝謝委員謝謝李委員的質詢那接下來我們請伍麗華委員質詢"},{"start":11108.413,"end":11111.776,"text":"主席好,有請財政部長有請莊部長委員好部長好我這邊有提供一個表格它是去年2023年國內各家銀行的字節營收我們可以看得到我們的公股、行庫"},{"start":11132.853,"end":11157.797,"text":"他的EPS每股盈餘的績效其實並不是最頂尖的但是我們也看到ANF國際貨幣基金組織他有一個報告他提到說各國的公共銀行不僅僅是在金融危機的時候協助穩定金融甚至是在疫情的時候承擔紓困放寒也比一般的銀行吃重"},{"start":11158.377,"end":11172.231,"text":"也就是說擁有一個穩定的公共銀行體系對於金融弱勢者的保障或公共政策的達成都會有正面的注意所以想請教部長你是不是認同這段話"},{"start":11173.733,"end":11202.452,"text":"是的,我們公股銀行常擔負著國家的一個政策任務好,謝謝部長星期一金管會也是來這邊備詢那當時我有特別去介紹原住民保留地的困境在我國私有的原保地大概有13萬公頃但是他有一個困境也就是說他到銀行要去承貸的時候他會發現被拒絕"},{"start":11203.693,"end":11220.832,"text":"而且一般都是用市場建價我們卻被採取公告限制那實際上他到了地下市場他的價值其實蠻高的流通性也很高那在這裡我是覺得"},{"start":11221.372,"end":11247.068,"text":"我們銀行常常會落入一個刻板印象他看到了原計法的規定他看到了山坡地保育利用條例的規定認為他的流通性很低所以呢作為擔保品他會覺得承擔比較高的風險所以承擔的意願很低那怎麼辦呢既然正規銀行我們求貸無門呢就很多都只能去找私人的當鋪"},{"start":11248.349,"end":11272.338,"text":"結果呢也搞不清楚什麼叫做利率多少會產生怎麼樣的債務關係所以呢到最後其實最後都是他的不動產被拍賣他的原保地被拍賣然後用非常低的價格然後又流落到市場去這是一個惡性循環也是原住民沒有辦法做事業的一個困境"},{"start":11273.618,"end":11288.644,"text":"我們長期以來也關心這個問題我知道去年的10月財政部國庫署有召開一個元寶地貸款建價會議那我長期以來也都很關心那部長您覺得元寶地的建價您怎麼看"},{"start":11291.262,"end":11306.828,"text":"剛剛委員所說的是一個就是說因為原保地它的承受人必須是我們的原住民所以它的承受對象是有受限制所以銀行在提供貸款的時候這個原保地做擔保就會有一些困難假設他要實行抵押權的時候而這個原保地也沒有辦法移轉到我們的銀行"},{"start":11312.01,"end":11340.501,"text":"也轉到銀行所以銀行在做這個元寶地的一個底壓貸款的時候確實有困境另外也跟委員報告其實原住民有一個綜合發展基金那在這個基金裡面他有筆基金是委託我們公股行庫有在做貸款人民會會做信保但是依舊有所謂的擔保品那我現在部長我是問您說元寶地來去做一個建架您怎麼看我不知道您知不知道這個會議內容"},{"start":11341.581,"end":11356.181,"text":"我知道那元寶地的建架當然是因為他第一個他的流通性的問題所以他的建架就會受到一些限制那我們就知道就是說我們金管會的黃主委那天也有回復我們委員有特別提到所以他也有"},{"start":11357.603,"end":11372.682,"text":"對,他也會說請銀行工會研究以元寶地作為單薄品的可行性以及如何的建架我想這個部分我們可以協同金管會一起來做這個部分的一些討論那我們的公股行會如果金管會訂出一定的規則那我們當然可以以循這個規則來做處理好,謝謝部長"},{"start":11375.245,"end":11395.379,"text":"因為我多次的會議其實我聽到的就是有點傷心啦因為可能會去談到一些話例如我們要為全民股東負責啊我們要賺錢啊但是為什麼我一開始會問您就是關於公股行庫的一個社會責任也好它的使命也好您也很認同嘛"},{"start":11396.279,"end":11417.926,"text":"所以我想這個部分我希望大家對於元寶地建架或者是未來我們的公股、行庫能不能夠來接收元寶地貸款這件事情我希望要有個正面積極的態度可以嗎?可以,我們會遵循經管會最後的一個規範我希望財政部可以提出更好的解方第一個我希望"},{"start":11418.486,"end":11441.193,"text":"我們的八家公股銀行可以帶頭乘坐甚至是去制定一些政策性的專案貸款那第二個呢我當然希望要來財政部增加公股的誘因嘛舉個例子來說如果公股行庫他願意乘坐元寶地的時候是不是他的董事長總經理的評鑑可以給予加分啊"},{"start":11441.813,"end":11470.814,"text":"又或者說參考紐西蘭的做法就是要去建立一個元寶地的建架系統因為其實元寶地並沒有那麼不值錢與特定的銀行合作給予我們部落族人應有的一個金融服務我是希望說部長您就帶回去研議也能夠比照金管會所說的希望可以遵照本席的一個建議方向提出一些對策跟可行性兩個月內給予回覆可以嗎"},{"start":11471.334,"end":11490.103,"text":"可以謝謝委員是那為什麼我這樣講因為我們原住民我們其實都沒有辦法貸款然後蓋房子所以有10萬賺個10萬就蓋一片廁所再有個50萬幫孩子蓋一個新房所以那個房子都長得古裡古怪所以像紐西蘭他們也是跟我們一樣"},{"start":11490.683,"end":11519.223,"text":"因為毛利的土地呢他們其實也跟我們一樣有困境可是他們會去針對去做一些專案像這個土地上的這個就是有24戶人家要蓋房子那銀行政府呢就幫他們辦理一個專案的貸款計畫我希望未來我們部長都可以來做這樣的一個鼓勵好不好好謝謝您吼那我們也知道我們政策金融永續金融普惠金融長期以來是受到重視的"},{"start":11519.963,"end":11535.645,"text":"我希望未來原名友善這個部分也能夠列入一個考量那像我們看到新聞說第一金、兆豐金、台企銀他們6月可能會有一個改選我希望未來的這個人選人對了事情就會對了都能夠來考量好嗎"},{"start":11538.808,"end":11563.467,"text":"為什麼我很關心這個問題其實2005年我們談到原住民基本法出來了之後他有一個要做原住民自治可是談了這麼多年大家都不知道要怎麼做所以呢我一直希望說我們原住民的土地可以活化利用那未來呢最重要的就是要有財源的一個自主所以我想要請教一下部長因為我看到這一次的院會質詢部長有允諾就是應該會來修"},{"start":11567.029,"end":11591.773,"text":"財化法對嗎對財化法的部分我們目前來徵詢意見然後我們要凝聚共識那何時會送進立法院這個部分當然要看共識能夠什麼時候能夠把那個距離縮到最小然後有個共識情況下來推動各位委員知道在101年也曾經有一個財化法的修正送到立法院但是因為地方政府各有不同的意見最後也就沒有修法成功"},{"start":11592.373,"end":11615.881,"text":"所以意思就是說要有共識才有可能?對,因為這涉及到地方的...那版本已經有了嗎?沒有,因為目前還在共識,我們還要再做討論我其實是要關心一個問題因為在這25年當中,地質法已經做過15次的修正那我們的兩都都已經變六都了"},{"start":11616.621,"end":11639.737,"text":"那我不知道部長您知不知道我們直轄市合併之後原住民鄉就變成原住民區那一度失去公法人地位引起嘩然所以在2014年4年之後馬上又修法改回讓原民區具有部落公法人地位那我現在想要說如果我們有去做"},{"start":11640.417,"end":11651.605,"text":"財化法的修正這個草案期間有沒有跟我們的這些關係機關開會財政部我們有跟相關機關開會但是到縣市直轄市縣市部長您就知道我想問的為什麼沒有跟鄉鎮市公所開會當然第一個目前鄉鎮市公所有198個相當多"},{"start":11662.912,"end":11683.041,"text":"因為其實縣市裡面應該他要去收集這個鄉鎮市的意見這個很重要然後一起來做中央的反應但是我相信你們跟縣市他們只會關心直轄市跟縣市政府要均一那土地面積要納入可能就討論他們關心的啦那為什麼我這樣講因為"},{"start":11685.422,"end":11699.652,"text":"我們的財化法其實有規定就是關於我們的財化法第8條財政部由於鄉鎮市它有一些是跟鄉鎮市有關的就是不是不能違是不作為"},{"start":11700.993,"end":11717.291,"text":"那為什麼我這樣講因為以我們這些合併之後的原民屈公所來講你應該很清楚像他們合併之前稅客收入是70%可是呢之後整併稅客收入是0%那我要說的是"},{"start":11717.992,"end":11733.837,"text":"重點在我們2014年在修地治法的時候寫得很清楚直轄市的區山地鄉改治者他是地方自治團體準用鄉鎮市的規定而且財政部當年你看他的第83條"},{"start":11736.779,"end":11760.499,"text":"這邊也有提到他的原住民區的財政是自治的所以未來這個財化法修正絕對至少需要跟合併之後直轄市的原民區公所來開會聽起意見部長可以嗎我們這個部分我想原民區的也非常重要的意見也非常重要因為他們地位很特別地位很特別現在就變得很尷尬"},{"start":11761.9,"end":11781.453,"text":"也就是說他們也沒有比以前更好所以至少跟他們開會聽取意見可以嗎?我們聽取意見是應該的好 那我下一次會繼續來問一個進度那我是希望說就是至少要針對這個部分來去做一個跟他們的溝通是 謝謝委員好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員的質詢接著我們請謝伊鳳委員質詢提醒列席委員有5加1的時間"},{"start":11793.004,"end":11794.284,"text":"不客氣謝謝主席我現在想請我們部長請莊部長委員好莊部長請問你會不會續任"},{"start":11818.626,"end":11844.667,"text":"跟委員報告五一九我們都會隨同陳院長總辭你覺得你現在還有什麼想要做然後沒有做到的事情我每天都努力在做我每天都努力在做啊沒有做到剛才吳委員也說了我們公股銀行的經營好像看起來不如預期那請問我們公股銀行的董事長現在平均年齡幾歲"},{"start":11848.537,"end":11871.677,"text":"年齡啊 這個平均的部分應該都是65歲左右問年齡很尷尬是不是對啊問年齡那你是首長嘛你應該都有我想委員也想提的就是說我們公股航空的董事長大概年齡應該都有差不多65歲因為大部分的我們的董事長、總經理都是從基層做起那做到一段這麼長的時間在經歷部分都相當的豐富是"},{"start":11875.08,"end":11892.87,"text":"我也很客氣我都沒有去把每一個人的年齡查出來然後放在這個後面然後告訴你我也可以這樣做但是我們公股銀行是不是應該要多禁用專業的人士以及年輕化這是一個未來怎麼樣子培養我們的財經的這個相關專業的人才是不是"},{"start":11900.695,"end":11905.721,"text":"是的,委員當然第一個我們要禁用專業那是一定的然後剛剛在那個王委員也提到我們一定會透過公開透明然後按照不同的職級要求不同的學歷跟經歷的一個標準所以專業是一定的那至於年輕化當然也是要做"},{"start":11919.818,"end":11945.449,"text":"但是我覺得相關的質疾裡面有關的他的經驗、高度、廣度都是需要時間的累積的那年輕朋友進來以後應該給予最好的一個培育讓他們成長我覺得這都是要併進啦要併進的你不能說這麼多然後做得很少啊事實上我們公國王府招考很多每年都有招考許多心血進來"},{"start":11947.41,"end":11969.867,"text":"還有去年我們的稅收也是又超徵超過3000億那現在目前行政院有沒有討論未來要怎麼樣用這個超徵的稅額以及到底是不是會發現金我看到我今天看到經濟部的王美花部長他說台電的虧損今年是3900多億"},{"start":11972.589,"end":11986.622,"text":"然後呢他們的那個什麼他的資本額已經快要不服他的那個已經是破產了到底要不要再易註台電要不要補他的資本那補了資本以後會不會漲電價"},{"start":11988.283,"end":12005.641,"text":"那如果你又補資本又漲電價等於是一頭牛剝了兩層皮嘛那我們的健保呢健保的隱藏的怎樣隱藏的負債是多少預估是10兆欸"},{"start":12006.902,"end":12023.688,"text":"過去我們看到老保的這個精算報告他的潛藏負債是10兆那到底要不要保老保呢還是讓他就是這樣子財務的結構一直惡化下去"},{"start":12024.708,"end":12041.781,"text":"還有健保呢?健保這個禮拜取消了掛號費的上限那是不是變相的長健保那如果我們在挹注健保的財源的時候是不是同樣的都是"},{"start":12042.842,"end":12055.743,"text":"第一個他沒有改善他的財務結構啊卻是還是同樣的未來我們還是要解決整個財務的赤字問題所以我想請問你超生稅額補誰"},{"start":12058.057,"end":12066.342,"text":"跟委員報告我們的稅客收入的實收數大於預算數這個部分那並不是超徵每一徵都是按照法律來徵收的那在我們財政部我們因為稅務執行的好我們就用公共債務法的規定第一個我今年112年的總預算的舉借的1732億的預算數我沒有舉借然後我錢也還"},{"start":12081.75,"end":12101.026,"text":"這不是我問的問題啦那至於有剩餘我們會到累計到設計剩餘那至於這個用途怎麼用我會認為是這個部分第一個涉及到國家整體的政策那主計總書跟行政會做討論好所以你也不知道就對了這個部分財政部是就稅務的部分來做說明好我問一個你們主政的"},{"start":12102.146,"end":12123.983,"text":"綠能稅我問你地方政府可不可以科綠能稅過去財政部說明綠能稅可以增加地方的財政但是不符合綠色租稅的範疇可能造成參與再生能源設置的意願降低所以不"},{"start":12126.206,"end":12134.839,"text":"與政府鼓勵綠能發展的方向不同所以到底地方政府可不可以來課徵綠能稅"},{"start":12138.793,"end":12158.427,"text":"委員報告有關地方稅跟國稅的部分財政事務法規定那另外哪一些稅地方可以課特別稅或者是附加稅這個部分在地方稅的知識通則裡面也都有規定那至於綠能稅的部分地方是不是有課我們負稅署說明一下好嗎可以嗎委員好"},{"start":12159.387,"end":12172.196,"text":"實際上地方稅法通則裏面有授權地方政府他可以在符合規定之下去開徵他的臨時稅或是一些我們叫特別稅那目前我們手上知道並沒有地方政府開徵綠能稅"},{"start":12175.174,"end":12202.646,"text":"對,我現在在問的是你們財政部的那財政部說了那中央可不可以課綠能稅呢目前沒有這個稅目那目前來說就碳的部分減碳的部分是碳費先行對啊,那是環境部的嘛那是環境部的碳費我講的是綠能稅喔我現在講的是綠能稅那個綠能稅目前沒有這個稅目"},{"start":12205.757,"end":12206.218,"text":"接下來我們請黃國昌委員質詢"},{"start":12241.322,"end":12259.573,"text":"謝謝主席是不是麻煩有請財政部的部長請莊部長第一銀行董事長邱有請邱董事長合作金庫董事長林衍茂林董事長三位有請林董委員好時間暫停"},{"start":12274.411,"end":12277.663,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":12281.309,"end":12306.73,"text":"三位好時間的關係不一一問候2018年開始在追慶富烈爐建壁案的時候發現非常多公股行庫的基本上沒有什麼金融專業當董事長只要抱對掌權者的大腿就可以當董事長了那個時候因為慶富烈爐建壁案下台的我們現在的廖燦昌"},{"start":12308.561,"end":12327.017,"text":"那個時候負責下台蘇貞昌重新任用他的時候跟大家說阿他這個叫做用人為財阿我那時候痛批阿這種人事任用我痛批這種人事任用結果蘇貞昌口中用人為財的廖燦昌後來繼續爆發了什麼綠眼炸彈案"},{"start":12333.253,"end":12335.135,"text":"請合戶跟議員來說明可以嗎?"},{"start":12363.769,"end":12380.97,"text":"當然啊 所以我才請兩位董事長上來 不要浪費時間啊目前沒有為什麼沒有 可以不求償喔放水打假球喔為什麼可以不求償 說個道理跟大家講因為是老長官 官官相護"},{"start":12390.675,"end":12407.73,"text":"報告委員我們是刑事案件有刑事案件附帶民事的球場球場多少錢沒有限定的金額怎麼可能沒有限定的金額你要提民事訴訟要球場沒有限定的金額那我先問你啦你們組織多少錢"},{"start":12409.837,"end":12413.599,"text":"跟委員報告是15億15億來議員損失多少錢?15萬的部分大概是57億57億15億的有球場57億的沒有球場 來來來損失15億的講清楚球場多少錢?"},{"start":12435.224,"end":12444.398,"text":"欸不好意思董事長我在問你問題欸損失15億的球場多少錢那個您上來不是在上面打坐我請問你問題要請你回答"},{"start":12448.697,"end":12475.191,"text":"沒關係啦我今天問題點出來了齁請兩家銀行的董事長回去準備書面資料回答兩個問題第一個有沒有球場如果沒有球場理由是什麼第二個有沒有進行假扣押有沒有進行財產的保全要不然官司打多久等到判決確定了以後全部脫廠脫得乾乾淨淨的拿債權憑證回家要幹嘛這兩件事情兩位董事長可以承諾可以做到嗎"},{"start":12478.036,"end":12489.276,"text":"應該可以吧沒有這麼複雜吧是不是可以請兩位董事長回答請兩位董事長用麥克風回答這個我們會再跟委員回報另外一位董事長"},{"start":12490.674,"end":12519.513,"text":"我想我們目前是對借戶在球場之中那對於董事長借戶在球場?你的借戶是誰啊?我們的借戶就是慶富跟這個球場的大嗎?目前還在執行中對嘛!你執行的多少錢?目前執行中的部分大概十來億啦收回五十七億快五十七億收回的部分有二十二億"},{"start":12520.615,"end":12529.422,"text":"所以現在到底多少錢?還有30幾億沒有追?對嘛!你還有57億沒有追嘛!可以這樣放水喔?來請部長是委員你倆在野的時候都說要修財政收支劃分法蘇貞昌說2012年批判得很嚴重喔說"},{"start":12545.595,"end":12573.234,"text":"那個時候要求要修財化法看到這些縣市編不出預算嗷嗷待哺米缸空空的心裡很難過我不曉得現在的行政院院長會不會體會到地方政府現在的心情然後愛心德2018年當行政院院長的時候他也承諾要修財化法到現在2024年持續跳票持續跳票"},{"start":12574.878,"end":12597.287,"text":"民進黨執政了以後享受到了錢跟錢一把抓的滋味財化法不斷的上懷沒有下文部長一直說你要凝聚各縣市的共識我先問兩個基本的問題第一個垂直分配不均的問題"},{"start":12599.007,"end":12623.4,"text":"統籌分配款規模太低不管是民進黨執政、國民黨執政、民進黨在野、國民黨在野所有的學者專家大家點出來的問題都一樣針對目前民進黨政府針對垂直分配不均的問題因為我先不跟你扯水平分配的問題要不然你又推給地方政府沒有共識啦沒有辦法修啦你去年五月的說辭到現在"},{"start":12624.921,"end":12644.221,"text":"一模一樣從來沒改變過我去查過了所以我繼續在聽你說要等社會共識或各界事業共識沒有意義啦我們先處理隨時分配不均的問題依照目前財政部規劃的版本就擴大統籌分配款的規模目前的規劃方案是什麼"},{"start":12645.383,"end":12664.221,"text":"跟委員報告啊怎麼樣就是所謂的垂直分配擴大統籌分配稅款的規模這個確實是我們在在研議過程當中的一個方向目前研議的結果是什麼那這個部分都需要試算都需要試算試算出來的沒有中央跟地方這幾年的財政變化也很大所以試算出來的沒有目前沒有"},{"start":12665.712,"end":12679.918,"text":"你從什麼時候開始試算?這個部分因為一直在變動一直在變動大部分不會啊你看沒有你們的data欸我2021年、2022年、2023年的我全部都試算出來啦講空話"},{"start":12681.365,"end":12702.139,"text":"地方政府沒共識連全職分派不均的問題問題試算出來了沒有還沒有開始試算欸呃 各位報告持 持續的都在做試算的工作持 持續都在做事啊沒關係不要再黑話今天會後以後把你們到目前此時此刻試算的結果給我可以嗎"},{"start":12703.34,"end":12725.839,"text":"這個部分我們要看一下資料的一個...剛剛你不是說持續的在試算嗎?那手上應該有數字啦!壞貨提供給我可不可以?我想這個部分我們還是需要審慎的研議,對請你給我試算的結果,你要研議什麼?研議這個試算的結果這麼正確回去重新打計算機嗎?不會的,我們...那水里壞貨把試算的結果給我可以嗎?部長你給個時間啦,給個時間比較好給個時間所以要給委員長一個月可以嗎?"},{"start":12731.523,"end":12745.211,"text":"一個月我們給好謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢接著我們請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在所以我們請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員也不在接著我們請鄭天才委員質詢"},{"start":12780.579,"end":12796.771,"text":"主席有請部長有請中央部長有請國產署署長有請曾署長委員好部長辛苦了首先"},{"start":12798.149,"end":12815.821,"text":"要謝謝財政部還有國產署針對本席在109年3月24日開始協調、質詢針對原住民曾租國有土地、申請原住民保留地經過申請"},{"start":12818.863,"end":12821.245,"text":"董事長：立法院第11屆第1會議"},{"start":12832.886,"end":12861.792,"text":"國產署辛苦的來完成修正財政部在112年10月4日修正發布這個國有非公用不動產出租管理辦法第28條然後開始執行這個國產署的主要是花蓮台東的辦事處這個非常辛苦這個也辦了很多場的"},{"start":12863.134,"end":12890.655,"text":"說明會辦了很多場說明會本席也盡可能去參加然後去了解這個我們這個公部門然後我們民眾的一些這個一個意見現在就是說很多的意見就是因為一開始你們希望的提供的就是所有的收集過去繳"},{"start":12893.912,"end":12919.427,"text":"這個繳稅的收集所以這個部分因為已經這個辦了好幾場這一段時間已經退還的租金到底有多少這個提供這個素面資料那我所知道的只有一個八十幾歲的老太太"},{"start":12920.865,"end":12934.779,"text":"他全部的收據都留著只有一個啦我所見到的是這樣其他的事實上這很難大家也是一樣不會一直把收據留存所以我也開過協調會請國產署"},{"start":12938.342,"end":12938.963,"text":"財政部莊部長翠雲率"},{"start":12963.618,"end":12974.706,"text":"提供一些不是長期的人力、階段時間的一些臨時的人力給他們。這是我自己從顧問員的角度來去考量這個部分。"},{"start":12976.116,"end":12995.63,"text":"就是把這些過去因為租約啦最起碼租約租約有土地地號嘛然後這個從這個地號然後歷年的公告限值就可以換算他的租金所以然後怎麼樣去有效的退還就不會讓這個"},{"start":12999.004,"end":13014.958,"text":"現在的公務員他本來工作就很忙了還要去做這個我看了也是不太忍心但是一不得不做所以這個部分這個給部長還有署長因為主要就是花蓮台東的辦事處了這個部分可以嗎"},{"start":13016.432,"end":13033.845,"text":"謝謝委員反映民眾的心聲我想這個部分前面的辦法修了後面的執行方式也定了最後就是在執行的時候讓民眾可以更快速的拿到退還的租金我想這個部分國產署已經在研議一個方式我是不是請署長來做一個辨明的說明好"},{"start":13037.305,"end":13052.416,"text":"報告委員,剛剛委員提到過有很多人可能收據都不見了那上一次也在委員那邊協調就是由我們國產署現有的資料庫裡面包括過雖然有些租約可能都換約過了但我們會用追溯的"},{"start":13053.016,"end":13061.49,"text":"例如現在的租約資料裡面也可以調出來然後他上一次的租約的資料也可以調出來那從這個租約裡面剛剛委員講的按照我們當時候寄收的一個標準是用公告地價"},{"start":13068.46,"end":13095.322,"text":"在每一年的公告計價的資料也都存在那我們會來核算我想以這個簡便辨明的方式說實在的有些要他拿10年20年的資料可能有他的困難性那我們就用既有的這些資料來核算那核算的結果我們會通知這個申請人到底對這樣的核算的這個計價的結果是不是同意如果同意就作為一個退還的一個標準"},{"start":13096.172,"end":13105.083,"text":"好,非常謝謝,這個剛才能力的部分如果車輪有不足還是要提供好,謝謝,也請委員支持另外就是說這個"},{"start":13107.182,"end":13127.263,"text":"您們定期,不要說每年,不用每個月,半年能夠提供一下這個辦理的情形。好,我們把那個成果是不是每一季提供給委員,把我們的成果。對,另外就是說很重要的就是有關緩收、免收的部分,就是要"},{"start":13129.4,"end":13156.857,"text":"最主要就是其實是要讓這個鄉鎮公所第一線的鄉鎮公所的人員要請他們協助主動協助跟國產署辦事處那邊因為民眾不清楚然後有的新說的案件之類的這個部分的協調那另外這個我已經執行過很多次了這個退伍會的部分我們好像有簽過 跟他們一起簽"},{"start":13157.697,"end":13184.09,"text":"部長、署長其實我沒有求的很多我只要限收我們就先限收好了先限收原住民申請原住民保留地的案件就先限收在這邊就是說屬於退伍會管理的"},{"start":13185.28,"end":13207.65,"text":"屬於退府會管理的部分但是是原住民在使用它符合增化邊緣住民保留地的條件的先處理這個部分就很少了所以你要請財政部國常署跟延民會還有退府會"},{"start":13209.797,"end":13211.498,"text":"謝謝鄭天才委員的質詢 接著我們請羅廷偉委員質詢"},{"start":13239.989,"end":13243.292,"text":"謝謝主席有請財政部莊部長有請莊部長委員好"},{"start":13250.114,"end":13276.888,"text":"好部長你好我想我們即將會面對電價要上漲健保費也有可能會上漲而現在呢我想民眾苦不堪言今天我要為民發聲要為民轉達一些事物我想就本席所知現行的所得稅法第5條第1項免稅額免預消費者物價指數叫上次調整年度的指數上漲累積達3%按上漲的幅度調整之部長"},{"start":13277.668,"end":13286.824,"text":"台灣的央行、美國的央行、日本的央行還有很多國家的央行都是以通膨2%為警戒值為什麼所得稅法財政部主管的法規是3%"},{"start":13291.696,"end":13317.757,"text":"就經濟學來看財政部是一國國政財政政策的一個表徵央行是一國貨幣財政政策的一個表徵兩個單位就像國家的左手右手都是同一個身體的組織為什麼會一國兩個體制不同分別央行2%以上就有可能考慮啟動利率的政策或其他的相關政策而財政部要3%才會啟動租稅政策這樣子的調整呢"},{"start":13320.254,"end":13346.4,"text":"第一個央行是考量有關就是2%的時候他可能調整有所相關的政策利率但是我們的稅的部分定為3%當時可能是考慮就是說避免過度的一個平凡的調整我想這個部分委員的提議蠻好的我覺得我們也許可以去了解一下為什麼當時定3%我想這應該我們說的滾動式調整當年度我們不知道是什麼樣的狀況但現在"},{"start":13348.424,"end":13375.692,"text":"民眾苦不堪言我希望這個部分免稅額的部分能不能給我們一點小確信所以本席在這邊提出這個問題我想大家要知道如果連續兩年都1.5%累積才有3%只要一年就發生3%院長你覺得對每一個像這樣子的納稅人結果會一樣嗎或者是跟溫水煮青蛙前兩年的通膨如果1.5 1.4到了第三年才因為新的通膨超過3%"},{"start":13377.492,"end":13391.668,"text":"我們要知道前兩年沒有調高免稅額第三年才宣布要調高的時候請問是第三年嗎不是是最快第四年才可以申請第三年的年所得享受受調高的這一個部分這結果"},{"start":13392.549,"end":13416.552,"text":"我們累積了4年才超過3%到第5年才有可能到第4年享受調高的結果您懂我的意思嗎?了解那跟委員報告就是不是一年一年我們是用累積就是說比上一次調整累積超過3%不是一年看單一年度的3%對所以是累積嘛我現在我們的問題就是累積讓我們享受不到及時的一個救援"},{"start":13417.032,"end":13441.119,"text":"我想通膨對一個經濟體系來說就很多的情況我們就像人類發燒拜託我們這樣發燒以後我們的貨幣政策財政政策就像退燒藥我們應該見急忌急啊我們應該結果通膨已經燒起來了結果你這個淨火你沒有用淨水來澆洗你要等到兩三年以後甚至是三四年四五年以後的原水來澆我想這樣子的一個法條"},{"start":13442.259,"end":13463.426,"text":"我們應該要適時的做一個調整我想您對於我的一個論述您覺得怎麼樣?您委員的論述我了解那我們也回去了解一下為什麼所得稅法當時這樣訂以及您的一個論述是不是可以納入我們的一個參考是不是容我們回去研議那您願意朝向苦民所苦的一個方向來"},{"start":13464.746,"end":13493.716,"text":"苦民所苦一致是我們努力在做的至於演繹的可行性我們要看結果是怎麼樣部長我真的是要為民拜託請託台灣飽受通膨之苦多少的企業公司倒著倒財源的財源減薪的減薪失業的失業多少薪水階級工作根本遭不保釋我們現在看到結果還有工作的人通膨已經打擊他申報眾所遂名目遂附"},{"start":13494.136,"end":13520.775,"text":"沒有降,實質的稅負卻增加了等到按法條終於可以調高免稅額扣除額等等的時候多少的上班族和公司行號早就已經陣亡了他們在等待調高的半路上我想真的是非常的辛苦本席在此建議修改所的稅法還有納稅者權利保護法採取逐年滾動式的一個做法每年多少通膨就調高多少的幅度我想這會很難嗎您覺得"},{"start":13523.157,"end":13541.153,"text":"除了免稅額跟那個扣除額之外那在納稅者保護法裡面還有一個基本生活費那個是每一年都在調整的就已經做適度的反應了就本期剛剛所提出整個論述我希望你能夠好好適時去做一個我們研議啦因為我覺得不會難啦"},{"start":13541.914,"end":13542.914,"text":"委員 這個涉及到法律的修正"},{"start":13569.766,"end":13598.425,"text":"對,但是我說就實務面法律修正當然剛剛我們說的嘛我們苦民所苦我們去研議看看嘛但是實際上如果法律修正完以後它實際在我們的相關軟體當中它是實際可以改數值的那法律修正完當然我們就按照法律的規定來做好最後我想再請問我想因為我本身來自台中我想台中儒學院市長長期也在這個委員會有做一個相關的一個問證但我就台中來說財政劃分收支法"},{"start":13599.366,"end":13619.608,"text":"在520之前你有辦法提出草案嗎?我想這個委員知道各地方政府的意見還相當的分歧所以在520之前應該是提出來事實上是有困難的我們期許有機會520之後還看得到你那520之後你有辦法在這一年度提出草案嗎?520之後那當然會有新政府"},{"start":13620.848,"end":13622.008,"text":"謝謝羅廷文委員的質詢 接著我們請陳佩瑜委員質詢"},{"start":13654.889,"end":13656.898,"text":"謝謝主席 有請財政部長 有請中央部長"},{"start":13663.957,"end":13679.69,"text":"部長午安時間有限我快速跟您請教關於台皮籃球隊長期沒有勞健保的問題去年一整年有非常多立法委員一起關心我們報告是從10月3日去年的10月3日我們就先跟陳建然院長討論過這個狀況當時在10月18日的財政委員會也跟部長您質詢過相關的檢討跟進度部長您的回應非常的正向10月25日我們還特地跑去慰問委員會"},{"start":13692.64,"end":13697.763,"text":"跟勞動部確定這個相關的關係來協助台皮離親總算在11月30號我們收到一個很棒的回文財政部回文說即將在2024年7月1號將以台皮籃球協會作為簽約跟投保單位我念這麼刻意我想要請部長給予正面的回應這個消息是真的嗎?"},{"start":13717.598,"end":13729.688,"text":"投保這個部分我們還跟藍協再來做一個討論也跟勞動部在討論確實還需要討論但是我們可以即將期待7月1日全面換月這件事情一定會如期的發生對嗎沒有問題好謝謝部長的回應"},{"start":13732.811,"end":13755.281,"text":"那這整件事情其實當然還有更多很好的處理方法不過我們真的要說在公開的場合說台皮現在這個狀態擺脫過去長期被球迷詬病的包含簽約的問題、勞健保的爭議還有不再由顧問作為合約的甲方也不用再讓球員自己去找職業公會來投保這件事情我要再次的公開謝謝部長跟董事長你們願意改革長期以來存在這個問題非常非常的困難但是"},{"start":13760.683,"end":13776.501,"text":"我要代表球員再次感謝財政部跟董事長這邊給予的相關的回應但是我們也要拜託財政部如同剛剛也有委員問了不管520以後您在不在這個位置上都希望財政部可以緊盯台皮要落實給我們看到這個報告的做法可以嗎這個部分可以請部長回應嗎"},{"start":13780.405,"end":13798.224,"text":"我們有關這個落實的一個執行的情形可以給委員一個報告好謝謝謝謝那我們辦公室當然也會持續追蹤喔那接下來跟部長快速討論一下關於去年籃球假球事件的後續我們知道財政部有兩支球隊那即使在休會的期間我們看到有很多工作跟討論跟會議都在進行"},{"start":13800.506,"end":13809.135,"text":"我們看到媒體上甚至還有提到台銀跟台酒期望建立防堵信託這個部分之前也跟部長林在財政委員會上討論過林楚英委員也問過這個題目後續我們看到藍協的副秘書長張誠"},{"start":13815.822,"end":13833.878,"text":"中他說:「這件事情可以參考棒球經驗,由工會來處理更為恰當。同時他也提到球隊對於參與提撥的部分也是有意願的。這邊我想跟部長快速確認一下目前台營在防堵信託的建立機制進度如何?」"},{"start":13835.425,"end":13860.623,"text":"委員報告台灣銀行還有我們鷹九公司都向藍鞋去提案了我們建議比照職棒來成立職藍球員房賭信託基金以及職藍球員簽約金的一個信託那我們來保障球員退役後的一個生活我想這個部分我們持續的會跟藍鞋來做溝通我們正式行文給藍鞋了兩家公司都正式行文已經正式行文給藍鞋了"},{"start":13862.905,"end":13878.271,"text":"因為我們之前確認到進度是台銀只有打過兩次的電話那如果如同部長您說的已經正式行為有打算開啟相關的討論跟後續的會議我們辦公室也會持續來追蹤那這邊也要拜託財政部部長這邊您也要加緊幫忙盯著好的謝謝委員的協助"},{"start":13879.511,"end":13891.745,"text":"那所以最後我們要再確認一下兩支球隊是不是真的如同新聞中藍鞋所提到的他們真的也有意願一起參與共同強化整個防堵機制就如同您剛剛說的是有意願的而且也有相關公文然後要開啟相關的討論對嗎是啊好這兩支球隊"},{"start":13895.129,"end":13900.573,"text":"最後我們就簡單的說明我們要感謝部長的重視跟支持在這邊我要拜託部長、拜託所有的相關的人員由財政部來責成臺灣銀行跟球員公會進行討論我們希望目標在2024年啟動籃球版本的球員防堵信託基金第二個有關於所屬球隊臺銀跟台平提撥信託基金的細節"},{"start":13920.47,"end":13945.527,"text":"我們希望可以在3個月內看到跟求員工會開始進行討論那上面的工作進度因為時間的關係可不可以在3個月內給立法院一個相關報告當然也要給我們辦公室好的好謝謝部長謝謝董事長謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝陳佩玉委員的質詢接著我們請蔓玉珍委員蔓玉珍委員蔓玉珍委員不在接著我們請徐欣怡委員徐欣怡委員徐欣怡委員也不在陳廷輝委員陳廷輝委員陳廷輝委員也不在"},{"start":13947.429,"end":13971.18,"text":"張嘉峻委員、張嘉峻委員、張嘉峻委員也不在鄭振賢委員、鄭振賢委員、鄭振賢委員也不在楊瓊瑩委員、楊瓊瑩委員、楊瓊瑩委員也不在邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員也不在林柱英委員、林柱英委員、林柱英委員也不在侯孟凱委員、侯孟凱委員、侯孟凱委員也不在蔡宇文、蔡宇文、蔡宇文委員、蔡宇文也不在今日登機發言委員均已巡討完畢我們現在處理臨時提案共兩案請議事人員"},{"start":13977.625,"end":13991.218,"text":"按由一,臺灣消費者從事海外網購交易頻繁根據一一位注冊人數截至目前已多達五百萬人可知,碰到詐騙或交換分請各位備詢列席人員請安靜,現在還在議事宣讀當中"},{"start":13995.342,"end":14023.028,"text":"財政部官務署目前針對消費者受詐救濟程序措施效果不彰另有退換或需求之消費者申請退稅程序需耗費大量金錢成本請財政部官務署針對海外購物詐騙退稅救濟程序以及退換或退稅程序簡化提出相關修法制度改善辦法並於一個月內提出報告提案人郭國文、吳秉瑞、王世堅、李坤誠"},{"start":14024.67,"end":14043.915,"text":"案由2根據國際組織推估台灣2050老年人口占比恐怕超越鄰國日本老年化為台灣未來發展重要課題其中退休金制度的優化就顯重要參照日本從2014年推動NISA制度"},{"start":14044.695,"end":14071.964,"text":"期間更兩度放寬NISA的限制台灣目前做法相對落後經查財政部過去五年眾所遂達成率皆破百推動台灣TISA可預期有成長空間請財政部重新評估台灣引進個人投資儲蓄帳戶制度之可能性並於一個月內提出報告提案人郭國文、吳秉瑞、王世堅、李坤誠宣讀完畢"},{"start":14074.028,"end":14101.153,"text":"我們稍作休息,我先請財政部這邊表述意見我們還有一位委員還沒到,你先表述一下意見跟看法報告委員,我可以先說嗎?你先說你先說沒關係好,那就按由一的部分是不是請委員容許我們是不是做一個修正,建議一個修正並於一個月內提出書面報告,就增加書面兩個字"},{"start":14102.54,"end":14127.445,"text":"一個月嗎?一個月內按由二的部分是不是我們有一個調整的一個建議就是說最後一句就是並於兩個月就一個月是不是建議修正為兩個月內提出書面報告就增加書面兩個字以上的建議這主要是時間修正內我們有什麼意見嗎?內門就加一個書面兩個字加書面兩個字請稍等一下我們等一下賴委員"},{"start":14168.058,"end":14184.409,"text":"就照學生結婚,修正他們的單位,如果他們有跟他提案就照學生結婚就是因為他沒來"},{"start":14226.623,"end":14247.396,"text":"內委員已經到場我想請問現場兩位委員對剛剛的臨體有沒有什麼意見沒有意見我們就照協商結論修正通過本會議就如下決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員諮詢及未答覆或補充資訊請財政部一周內以書面答覆委員另有要求期限者從其所定"},{"start":14247.976,"end":14258.74,"text":"委員羅明財、陳玉貞所提書面質詢列入記錄、刊登公報並請財政部以書面答覆本次會議議程已進行完畢。堂友不在場委員補書面質詢一併列入記錄、刊登公報並請藝術人協助處理。上會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}