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莊部長請委員好部長好 部長昨天那個海關博物館開幕嘛 對不對"},{"start":21.38,"end":40.768,"text":"那1996年的我們的海關的這個辦公室所成立之後呢海關博物館算是一個教育館那基本上也是對整個海關的歷史的重視但相對呢你對海關歷史的重視呢可是一樣是關務署對歷史建築卻感覺上啊相當的漠視為什麼"},{"start":42.789,"end":64.399,"text":"本席在10年的時候就已經去會堪考察過的北投育成中心的部分這是在1913年的時候以照目前為止是應該是非常久具有歷史如果我沒有記錯應該是最久的一個早期日治時期的一個溫泉招待所結果任由他方會"},{"start":65.419,"end":68.641,"text":"臺北市政府財政部有承接過這個財政部所屬的文化資產、文化身份的歷史建築嗎?有沒有?"},{"start":96.702,"end":117.239,"text":"臺北市有的時候因為他是文化主管機關有的時候他會移撥我們的歷史移撥也是修復好之後才會移撥啦部長你不要做夢了啦沒有一個地方政府會花這種錢第二個我想要問你的是說他有承諾具體的白紙黑字的承諾書嗎"},{"start":119.08,"end":122.522,"text":"臺北市政府願意花一億多元的部分預算來修復我們北投育成中心"},{"start":142.312,"end":143.213,"text":"臺北市政府維持原來的承諾"},{"start":160.475,"end":176.982,"text":"原來的承諾你要北撞奧伊伊阿不要到時候你又是找不到帳阿你到時候又重新改一個計畫又3年到5年明明已經100多年的建築物任由其方會又要任由已經本席到現在已經3年到4年4年後又3年又4年你要等到他150歲200歲才有打算修復他嗎"},{"start":180.563,"end":205.83,"text":"所以報告委員所以我們115年如果這個移波沒有順利完成我們115年就會編列這個概算編列什麼預算那你如果明年可以編列預算你為什麼不早點編列預算就很奇怪啦報告委員因為當時跟臺北市政府文化局這邊談所以我們有編113跟114的這個你具體的承諾給我你現在都是修復計畫費用而已啦你如果沒有你要不要自己編部長"},{"start":207.033,"end":233.959,"text":"委員這樣子齁因為11月7號也去拜會臺北市那我想這個後續我們會持續的我覺得我們會部裡面也會再跟那個臺北市政府請我現在問你臺北市政府如果沒有答應你要不要自己編啊你聽不懂喔要問幾次自己編啊如果說他們好你要馬上給我編啊所有文化資產當中最多的財政部所屬的這個機關公股銀行包括國有財產署是文資大戶欸"},{"start":235.459,"end":252.695,"text":"你有沒有做一個總體的整理單單國產署就344個位置單單那個煙酒公司、台銀、核庫等等隨便一個房舍都具有高度的歷史價值但是你們沒有整體的去保存"},{"start":253.536,"end":268.245,"text":"都是零星片段個案處理啊部長,你們承諾本席做個整體的規劃通常的檢討我們部裡面都有去彙整各機關或機構所管的那個歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、歷史建築、"},{"start":281.465,"end":306.306,"text":"本席問過本席看到你們常常在講什麼智慧海關還有一些那個通關的便捷性什麼這一個數位海關搞了老半天人資色彩還是很多同樣一個樣品有的在A公司從B公司進了同樣的貨可是到不同的海關卻有不同的稅率"},{"start":308.612,"end":309.834,"text":"這部分對於稅則編號的見解不一樣的部分"},{"start":319.724,"end":319.904,"text":"一國好幾次"},{"start":346.018,"end":347.979,"text":"那有的要退稅一個月、一個半月"},{"start":366.39,"end":379.742,"text":"財政部的退稅作業為什麼一定要有的在電腦上可以執行有的一定要書面一定要零貴部長這是不是都你管的為什麼退稅有的要拉到一兩個月有的就只有五天"},{"start":380.796,"end":403.004,"text":"怎麼差那麼多當然應該要更改進要更改進對啊你上次也這麼阿沙尼跟回答本席啊應該改進啊你整個報稅要變節化退稅應該變節化結果呢已經事隔快要一年了你的阿沙尼已經阿沙尼了一年了結果呢還是一樣牛步化沒有變節化做何解釋這個部分我們再回去"},{"start":406.786,"end":406.806,"text":"暫停討論．"},{"start":422.631,"end":423.952,"text":"等期還有一件齁"},{"start":440.506,"end":461.439,"text":"一直放在心裡你們沒有辦法說服本席的部分就是TISA的部分你們對TISA的部分就是維持生活所得支出可以扣除是從所得稅的角度來看本席是說呢你如果說從一個好的一個那個對有利於人民的政策的這個TISA"},{"start":462.422,"end":483.472,"text":"為什麼人家NISA可以做第一代做到第二代可以讓整個資產的配置更加的理性化而我們呢在稅制上的優惠沒有辦法除了所得稅之外以差的作稅把這一個不是鼓勵投資是鼓勵投資貸退儲蓄的這個可能性把他拉高所有的工具都在你們手上"},{"start":485.093,"end":500.075,"text":"阿這個大家告訴我有什麼好處我就舉一個嘛現在說在證券市場當中對於租稅優惠可以幫助整個證券市場包括人民理財的部分呢其實外乎有三種一個是NISA一個是"},{"start":503.639,"end":519.616,"text":"臺灣三個投資工具就是少了人家兩個連ETF的部分的稅率也是1%而已啊他還是有優惠啊啊這種情況底下這麼好的方式為什麼我是要搞不清楚財政部想了這麼久反抗這麼久沒有找出一個替代方案部長"},{"start":521.616,"end":539.892,"text":"願聞高見跟委員報告有關TISA部分的租稅優惠我們和金管會其實都一直在持續的一些溝通中金管會找出一個減免手續會的方式解決不了問題我們也把各個國家在類似這樣TISA或NISA這樣的一個租稅優惠做了一個表列然後去做相互的比較"},{"start":540.572,"end":565.316,"text":"其實我們台灣現在對於這樣的一個經營的租稅的優惠其實優於其他各國已經優於其他各國了對所以你要找其他的可能性不是從所得稅的角度而已嘛本席剛剛就跟你講過本席剛剛有跟你講過嘛你現在所謂的維持生活基本支出如果按照這個原則現在是負利率的情況底下他也沒有辦法維持基本生活支出啊那所有國人的金融資產的占比當中即便"},{"start":570.641,"end":584.054,"text":"臺灣的證券市場算是正面的長期投資是好的情況底下你為何不讓國有這個機會呢透過租稅工具的方式呢部長請你回去再思考一下可不可以最後我再用一個短暫的時間"},{"start":585.555,"end":610.769,"text":"最新的消息是造源計劃造源計劃是在本席要求國會會建立一個平台溝通結果溝通的結果呢新所謂的建立一個建構一個平台結果還是推回來給財政部處理推回來給財政部處理的這個公建計劃也好或者是物流倉儲也好捷運也好我覺得這個目前設定都很好的標的那我要問你一下你這個平台建置了沒有財政部"},{"start":612.289,"end":637.771,"text":"將來會是我們在114年開始我們就會有一個促餐專案辦公室然後有一個平台專案辦公室專案辦公室然後也會有一個院級的跨部會的一個促餐推動的一個平台就是你們處理當然什麼時候完成在財政部這邊我們明年就開始了明年就開始明年就開始那院的什麼時候院級其實現在已經都在一直密集的在討論當中院的只是會議平台而已啦就我知道是這樣子啦"},{"start":638.331,"end":641.634,"text":"總共保險基金還有3.27億外界只要保險基金有3%就可以值得投資從實務上不止3%至少要5%"},{"start":654.565,"end":681.342,"text":"所以你現在透過這個出餐的方式的時候你還要去統合一個可能性就是說呢他有沒有可能把這一個出餐的這個標的當中再透過組合性的投資像REITS的部分來combine在一起的可能性對啊這就是金管會一起加入這個平台的主要的目的正常創造出來比較相對高的利率所得才能吸引更多基金投入這個公建跟捷運開發"},{"start":682.483,"end":682.863,"text":"謝謝國委員的質詢下一位請賴會員委員質詢請"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:49:50.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:49:52.535000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們有請莊部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（賴委員士葆代）","start":"2024-11-18T09:49:52.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:49:52.916000+08:00","text":"莊部長請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:49:52.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:49:52.936000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:49:52.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:49:53.116000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:49:54.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:49:54.637000+08:00","text":"部長，昨天海關博物館開幕，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:50:07.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:50:16.604000+08:00","text":"1996年海關辦公室成立之後，海關博物館算是一個教育館，基本上也是對於整個海關歷史的重視。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:50:16.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:50:25.768000+08:00","text":"但是相對於對海關歷史的重視，一樣是關務署，可是對歷史建築卻感覺上相當的漠視，為什麼？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:50:27.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:50:53.201000+08:00","text":"本席在110年的時候就已經會勘考察過北投育成中心，這是1913年到目前為止，應該是非常具有歷史，如果我沒有記錯，應該是最久的一個早期日治時期溫泉招待所，結果任由它荒廢，搞了老半天，弄了三年之久才有一個計畫，最近我再一次去會勘，結果才處於期中報告結束，至於期末報告的階段，你告訴我臺北市政府會承接，部長，請問一下，臺北市政府財政局有承接過財政部所屬的文化資產、文化身分的歷史建築嗎？","quality":0.581},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:50:53.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:50:53.621000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:21.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:27.627000+08:00","text":"臺北市確實因為是文化主管機關，有的時候它會移撥我們的歷史……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:27.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:31.110000+08:00","text":"移撥也是修復好之後才會移撥啦！部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:31.110000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:32.110000+08:00","text":"也不一定……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:31.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:33.052000+08:00","text":"你不要作夢了啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:33.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:35.253000+08:00","text":"沒有一個地方政府會花這種錢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:35.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:42.239000+08:00","text":"第二個，我想要問你的是，它有具體的白紙黑字的承諾書嗎？有嗎？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:42.239000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:43.239000+08:00","text":"有正式來文，然後關務署也去拜會了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:43.239000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:44.239000+08:00","text":"有正式來文的承諾書，為什麼本席在詢問的時候你沒有提出來？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:44.239000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:45.239000+08:00","text":"你馬上告訴我啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:44.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:47.502000+08:00","text":"你有辦法在明年1月的時候，期末報告之後就順利移轉，然後臺北市政府會願意花一億多元的預算來修復北投育成中心？","quality":0.49},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:47.502000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:49.978250+08:00","text":"這個部分我們關務……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:49.978250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:52.454500+08:00","text":"你承諾本席、你承諾本席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:52.454500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:54.930750+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，關務署在11月7號的時候也拜會了臺北市文化局。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:54.930750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:57.407000+08:00","text":"我不管你的流程啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:57.407000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:51:59.883250+08:00","text":"你告訴我結果。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:51:59.883250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:52:02.359500+08:00","text":"好，是不是請署長跟委員報告一下關務署去拜會的情形？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:52:02.359500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:52:04.835750+08:00","text":"結果怎麼樣？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:52:04.835750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:52:07.312000+08:00","text":"彭署長請說。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-18T09:52:07.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:52:08.213000+08:00","text":"報告委員，臺北市政府現在還是維持原來的承諾，它大概明年……","quality":0.48},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:52:25.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:52:26.175000+08:00","text":"原來的承諾要白紙黑字啊！","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:52:27.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:52:41.982000+08:00","text":"不要到時候又是找不到帳，你到時候又重新改一個計畫又三年到五年，明明已經一百多年的建築物任由其荒廢，本席到現在已經等三年到四年，四年後又三年、又四年，你要等到它150歲、200歲才要打算修復它嗎？","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-18T09:52:45.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:52:51.905000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果115年這個移撥沒有順利完成，我們115年就會編列這個概算。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:52:52.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:52:52.485000+08:00","text":"編列什麼預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:52:53.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:52:55.826000+08:00","text":"如果明年可以編列預算，你為什麼不早點編列預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:52:55.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:52:56.786000+08:00","text":"就很奇怪啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-18T09:52:57.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:03.508000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為當時跟臺北市政府文化局談，所以我們有編113年及114年的利用及再修復計畫。","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:04.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:08.329000+08:00","text":"你具體承諾給我，你現在就是修復計畫費用而已啦！是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:09.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:10.830000+08:00","text":"如果沒有，你要不要自己編，部長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:12.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:16.614000+08:00","text":"委員，因為11月7號有去拜會臺北市，後續我們會持續地……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:16.614000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:17.934000+08:00","text":"我說沒有的話，你要不要自己編嘛？","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:17.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:21.635000+08:00","text":"我覺得部裡面也會再跟臺北市政府……請他們一定按照原來的承諾來做。","quality":0.552},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:21.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:24.696000+08:00","text":"我現在問你，臺北市政府如果沒有答應，你要不要自己編？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:25.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:25.656000+08:00","text":"你聽不懂喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:26.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:26.476000+08:00","text":"要問幾次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:27.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:27.556000+08:00","text":"自己編啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:27.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:28.797000+08:00","text":"如果說他們……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:28.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:29.737000+08:00","text":"好，你要馬上給我編。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:30.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:38.959000+08:00","text":"所有文化資產當中最多的是財政部所屬的機關、公股銀行，包括國有財產署，是文資大戶耶！","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:40.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:53:42.001000+08:00","text":"你有沒有做一個總體的整理？有啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:53:43.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:00.857000+08:00","text":"單單國產署列管的就344個位置，單單菸酒公司、臺銀、合庫等等隨便一個房舍都具有高度歷史價值，但是你們沒有整體的保存，都是零星片段、個案處理啊！","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:01.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:05.180000+08:00","text":"部長，你能不能承諾本席做整體規劃、通盤檢討？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:05.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:09.202000+08:00","text":"是，部裡面都有彙整各機關或機構所管的歷史建築或古蹟，也都會是他們要去做……","quality":0.606},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:09.202000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:12.079167+08:00","text":"彙整之外，後面要如何保存才是關鍵，不是彙整而已。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:12.079167+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:14.956333+08:00","text":"按照文資法的規定來做後續修復及利用。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:14.956333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:17.833500+08:00","text":"我不是想要你調查，本席要你保存。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:17.833500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:20.710667+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:20.710667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:23.587833+08:00","text":"可不可以？好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:23.587833+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:26.465000+08:00","text":"把它視為財政部的資產之一。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:26.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:53.612000+08:00","text":"第二個，本席問過你們常常在講什麼智慧海關，還有通關的便捷性、數位海關等，搞了老半天，人治的色彩還是很多，同樣一個樣品，有的是A公司從B公司進了同樣的貨，可是到不同的海關卻有不同的稅率，部長，這是數位可以解決的嗎？","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:53.612000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:54.612000+08:00","text":"這是智慧海關可以解決的嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:53.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:54.814000+08:00","text":"對於稅則編號的見解不一樣的部分，關務署要做統一的解釋、要做統一的核覆。","quality":0.469},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:54.814000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:56.796000+08:00","text":"第二個就是說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:56.796000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:54:58.778000+08:00","text":"對，而且要慎重的檢討，不要造成這種困擾。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:54:58.778000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:55:00.760000+08:00","text":"我們當然也要編相關類似像手冊一樣，讓大家可以遵循，甚至也可以讓……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:55:00.760000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:55:02.742000+08:00","text":"來協調的時候，各自堅持己見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:55:02.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:55:04.724000+08:00","text":"這個部分就要好好的去跟他溝通及要求。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:55:04.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:55:04.884000+08:00","text":"一國好幾制。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:55:04.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:55:05.884000+08:00","text":"另外也讓民眾可以事先申請預審，讓他知道他適用哪一個稅則編號。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:55:05.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:55:06.884000+08:00","text":"一國好幾制。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:55:06.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:55:07.884000+08:00","text":"當然一國好幾制是不應該，因為各關認知不同的話……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:55:04.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:55:56.515000+08:00","text":"對，這部分應該解決，你上次還很「阿沙力」的答應本席要解決，退稅的時候也應該數位化，你也是很爽快的答應本席，結果到目前為止……不是海關的稅務，海關老實講還做得不錯，老實講它退稅5天，那有的要退稅一個月、一個半月，一樣是財政部的退稅作業，為什麼有的在電腦上可以執行，有的一定要書面、一定要臨櫃？","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:55:58.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:00.658000+08:00","text":"部長，這是不是都你管的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:01.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:06.316000+08:00","text":"為什麼退稅有的要拉到一、兩個月，有的就只有5天，怎麼差那麼多？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:07.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:09.477000+08:00","text":"當然應該要更改進。對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:10.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:13.899000+08:00","text":"你上次也這麼「阿沙力」地回答本席應該改進啊！是。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:14.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:18.400000+08:00","text":"整個報稅要便捷化，退稅也應該便捷化，結果呢？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:18.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:27.744000+08:00","text":"已經事隔快要一年了，你已經「阿沙力」一年了，結果還是一樣牛步化，沒有便捷化，做何解釋？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:27.744000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:29.577364+08:00","text":"這個部分我們再回去盤整一下到底哪一些時間上還不夠，可以更快速的。是啊！","quality":0.281},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:29.577364+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:31.410727+08:00","text":"你不能這邊講了以後就算了嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:31.410727+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:33.244091+08:00","text":"不會啦、不會啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:33.244091+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:35.077455+08:00","text":"底下交報告就想要敷衍了事嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:35.077455+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:36.910818+08:00","text":"不會啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:36.910818+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:38.744182+08:00","text":"不會這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:38.744182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:40.577545+08:00","text":"所有的陳情案件一來，還是照常如實，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:40.577545+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:42.410909+08:00","text":"你要繳稅、退稅都同樣的模式，都要便捷化。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:42.410909+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:44.244273+08:00","text":"當然，如果在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:44.244273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:46.077636+08:00","text":"海關5天，其他單位就5天；沒有海關5天，其他單位一個半月的道理，可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:46.077636+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:56:47.911000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，要求快當然也需要正確，我們也需要就資料來審核。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:56:47.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:57:16.713000+08:00","text":"好，本席還有一件一直放在心裡，你們沒有辦法說服本席的就是TISA的部分，你們對TISA的部分就是維持生活所得支出可以扣除，是從所得稅的角度來看。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:57:17.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:57:33.885000+08:00","text":"本席是說，如果從一個好的、有利於人民政策的TISA，為什麼人家的NISA可以做第一代，還做到第二代，可以讓整個資產的配置更加理性化？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:57:34.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:57:51.575000+08:00","text":"而我們在稅制上的優惠沒有辦法除了所得稅之外以其他的扣稅，這個不是鼓勵投資，而是鼓勵投資代替儲蓄的可能性把它拉高，所有的工具都在你們手上，這個拉高之後有什麼好處？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:57:51.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:58:15.827000+08:00","text":"我就舉一個例子，現在所有在證券市場當中，對於租稅優惠可以幫助整個證券市場的，包括人民理財的部分其實不外乎有三種，一個是TISA、NISA，一個是ETF，一個是REITs，臺灣三個投資工具就是少了人家兩個，連ETF的稅率也是1%而已，它還是有優惠啊！","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:58:16.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:58:24.456000+08:00","text":"這種情況底下這麼好的方式，我實在搞不清楚為什麼財政部想了這麼久、反抗這麼久，沒有找出一個替代方案？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:58:24.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:58:27.256000+08:00","text":"部長，願聞高見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:58:27.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:58:33.662000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關TISA部分的租稅優惠，我們和金管會其實都一直在持續的溝通中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:58:33.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:58:37.345000+08:00","text":"金管會找出一個減免手續費的方式解決不了問題啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:58:37.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:58:50.697000+08:00","text":"我們也把各個國家在類似TISA或NISA這樣的租稅優惠做了一個表列，然後去做相互的比較，臺灣現在對於這樣情形的租稅優惠，其實已經優於其他各國了。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:58:51.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:58:54.841000+08:00","text":"對，所以你要找其他的可能性，不是從所得稅的角度而已嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:58:55.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:58:57.343000+08:00","text":"本席剛剛就跟你講過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:58:57.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:58:58.343000+08:00","text":"對，我們這個部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:58:57.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:58:58.665000+08:00","text":"本席剛剛有跟你講過嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:58:59.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:59:06.712000+08:00","text":"你現在所謂的維持生活基本支出，如果按照這個原則，現在是負利率的情況底下，他也沒有辦法維持基本生活支出啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:59:07.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:59:22.547000+08:00","text":"所有國人的金融資產占比當中，即便ETF增加，也沒有變得比較高，以臺灣的證券市場算是正面的，長期投資是好的情況底下，你為何不讓國人有個機會呢？","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:59:22.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:59:24.009000+08:00","text":"透過租稅工具的方式呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:59:24.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:59:27.192000+08:00","text":"部長，請你回去再思考一下可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:59:27.192000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T09:59:28.192000+08:00","text":"好，我們再回去……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T09:59:27.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T09:59:55.749000+08:00","text":"最後，我再用短暫的時間問一下，最新的消息是兆元計畫，兆元計畫是本席要求國發會建立一個平臺溝通，溝通的結果所謂要建構一個平臺還是推回來給財政部處理，推回來給財政部處理的公建計畫也好，或者是物流倉儲也好、捷運也好，我覺得目前設定的都是很好的標的，我要問一下，這個平臺建置了沒有，財政部？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T09:59:57.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:02.333000+08:00","text":"將來會有，我們從114年開始會有一個促參專案辦公室，然後有一個平臺……","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:02.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:02.814000+08:00","text":"專案辦公室？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:02.814000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:03.834000+08:00","text":"就是平臺嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:03.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:08.699000+08:00","text":"然後也會有一個院級跨部會的促參推動的平臺。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:09.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:10.901000+08:00","text":"就是你們處理，大概什麼時候完成？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:11.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:13.122000+08:00","text":"財政部這邊，明年就開始了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:13.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:16.085000+08:00","text":"明年就開始，院級的什麼時候開始？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:16.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:19.388000+08:00","text":"院級的其實現在已經都在密集地討論當中了。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:19.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:22.310000+08:00","text":"院級的只是會議平臺而已，就我知道是這樣子。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:22.310000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:23.571000+08:00","text":"我們跟金管會、行政院都一直在開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:23.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:26.634000+08:00","text":"保險基金總共還有3.27億，我跟你講，外界講說只要保險基金的利率有3%就值得投資，我說實在，從實務上來看，不只3%，至少要5%。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:39.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:53.074000+08:00","text":"所以現在透過這個促參方式，你還要去統合一個可能性，就是他有沒有可能把促參的標的再透過組合性的投資，像是跟REITs的部分combine在一起的可能性？","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:53.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:00:57.777000+08:00","text":"對啊，這就是金管會一起加入這個平臺的主要目的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:00:59.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:01:06.342000+08:00","text":"是，這樣才能創造出來相對高的利率所得，才能吸引更多基金投入公建跟捷運開發，對不對？","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:01:06.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:01:07.342000+08:00","text":"對，多元的管道讓資金可以進來。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:01:07.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:01:08.342000+08:00","text":"但是部長我提醒你，你是爐主喔，不是別人喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:01:08.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:01:09.342000+08:00","text":"以後這個成績我每半年會跟你要求一次，看你有沒有成績，不要每半年都空白，這樣就難看了喔！部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:01:07.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:01:07.483000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-18T10:01:07.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:01:08.483000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T10:01:07.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:01:07.603000+08:00","text":"謝謝郭委員的質詢。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T10:01:07.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:01:07.863000+08:00","text":"下一位請賴惠員委員質詢。","quality":0.909}]},"gazette":{"lineno":365,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時49分）謝謝主席，我們有請莊部長。"],["主席（賴委員士葆代）：莊部長請。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：部長好。部長，昨天海關博物館開幕，對不對？1996年海關辦公室成立之後，海關博物館算是一個教育館，基本上也是對於整個海關歷史的重視。但是相對於對海關歷史的重視，一樣是關務署，可是對歷史建築卻感覺上相當的漠視，為什麼？本席在110年的時候就已經會勘考察過北投育成中心，這是1913年到目前為止，應該是非常具有歷史，如果我沒有記錯，應該是最久的一個早期日治時期溫泉招待所，結果任由它荒廢，搞了老半天，弄了三年之久才有一個計畫，最近我再一次去會勘，結果才處於期中報告結束，至於期末報告的階段，你告訴我臺北市政府會承接，部長，請問一下，臺北市政府財政局有承接過財政部所屬的文化資產、文化身分的歷史建築嗎？有沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：臺北市確實因為是文化主管機關，有的時候它會移撥我們的歷史……"],["郭委員國文：移撥也是修復好之後才會移撥啦！部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：也不一定……"],["郭委員國文：你不要作夢了啦！沒有一個地方政府會花這種錢。第二個，我想要問你的是，它有具體的白紙黑字的承諾書嗎？有嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：有正式來文，然後關務署也去拜會了。"],["郭委員國文：有正式來文的承諾書，為什麼本席在詢問的時候你沒有提出來？你馬上告訴我啊！你有辦法在明年1月的時候，期末報告之後就順利移轉，然後臺北市政府會願意花一億多元的預算來修復北投育成中心？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我們關務……"],["郭委員國文：你承諾本席、你承諾本席。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，關務署在11月7號的時候也拜會了臺北市文化局。"],["郭委員國文：我不管你的流程啦！你告訴我結果。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，是不是請署長跟委員報告一下關務署去拜會的情形？"],["郭委員國文：結果怎麼樣？彭署長請說。"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，臺北市政府現在還是維持原來的承諾，它大概明年……"],["郭委員國文：原來的承諾要白紙黑字啊！不要到時候又是找不到帳，你到時候又重新改一個計畫又三年到五年，明明已經一百多年的建築物任由其荒廢，本席到現在已經等三年到四年，四年後又三年、又四年，你要等到它150歲、200歲才要打算修復它嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，如果115年這個移撥沒有順利完成，我們115年就會編列這個概算。"],["郭委員國文：編列什麼預算？如果明年可以編列預算，你為什麼不早點編列預算？就很奇怪啦！"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，因為當時跟臺北市政府文化局談，所以我們有編113年及114年的利用及再修復計畫。"],["郭委員國文：你具體承諾給我，你現在就是修復計畫費用而已啦！"],["彭署長英偉：是。"],["郭委員國文：如果沒有，你要不要自己編，部長？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，因為11月7號有去拜會臺北市，後續我們會持續地……"],["郭委員國文：我說沒有的話，你要不要自己編嘛？"],["莊部長翠雲：我覺得部裡面也會再跟臺北市政府……請他們一定按照原來的承諾來做。"],["郭委員國文：我現在問你，臺北市政府如果沒有答應，你要不要自己編？你聽不懂喔！要問幾次？"],["莊部長翠雲：自己編啊！如果說他們……"],["郭委員國文：好，你要馬上給我編。所有文化資產當中最多的是財政部所屬的機關、公股銀行，包括國有財產署，是文資大戶耶！你有沒有做一個總體的整理？"],["莊部長翠雲：有啊！"],["郭委員國文：單單國產署列管的就344個位置，單單菸酒公司、臺銀、合庫等等隨便一個房舍都具有高度歷史價值，但是你們沒有整體的保存，都是零星片段、個案處理啊！部長，你能不能承諾本席做整體規劃、通盤檢討？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，部裡面都有彙整各機關或機構所管的歷史建築或古蹟，也都會是他們要去做……"],["郭委員國文：彙整之外，後面要如何保存才是關鍵，不是彙整而已。"],["莊部長翠雲：按照文資法的規定來做後續修復及利用。"],["郭委員國文：我不是想要你調查，本席要你保存。"],["莊部長翠雲：我知道。"],["郭委員國文：可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["郭委員國文：把它視為財政部的資產之一。","第二個，本席問過你們常常在講什麼智慧海關，還有通關的便捷性、數位海關等，搞了老半天，人治的色彩還是很多，同樣一個樣品，有的是A公司從B公司進了同樣的貨，可是到不同的海關卻有不同的稅率，部長，這是數位可以解決的嗎？這是智慧海關可以解決的嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：對於稅則編號的見解不一樣的部分，關務署要做統一的解釋、要做統一的核覆。第二個就是說……"],["郭委員國文：對，而且要慎重的檢討，不要造成這種困擾。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們當然也要編相關類似像手冊一樣，讓大家可以遵循，甚至也可以讓……"],["郭委員國文：來協調的時候，各自堅持己見。"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分就要好好的去跟他溝通及要求。"],["郭委員國文：一國好幾制。"],["莊部長翠雲：另外也讓民眾可以事先申請預審，讓他知道他適用哪一個稅則編號。"],["郭委員國文：一國好幾制。"],["莊部長翠雲：當然一國好幾制是不應該，因為各關認知不同的話……"],["郭委員國文：對，這部分應該解決，你上次還很「阿沙力」的答應本席要解決，退稅的時候也應該數位化，你也是很爽快的答應本席，結果到目前為止……不是海關的稅務，海關老實講還做得不錯，老實講它退稅5天，那有的要退稅一個月、一個半月，一樣是財政部的退稅作業，為什麼有的在電腦上可以執行，有的一定要書面、一定要臨櫃？部長，這是不是都你管的？為什麼退稅有的要拉到一、兩個月，有的就只有5天，怎麼差那麼多？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然應該要更改進。"],["郭委員國文：對啊！你上次也這麼「阿沙力」地回答本席應該改進啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：整個報稅要便捷化，退稅也應該便捷化，結果呢？已經事隔快要一年了，你已經「阿沙力」一年了，結果還是一樣牛步化，沒有便捷化，做何解釋？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我們再回去盤整一下到底哪一些時間上還不夠，可以更快速的。"],["郭委員國文：是啊！你不能這邊講了以後就算了嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：不會啦、不會啦！"],["郭委員國文：底下交報告就想要敷衍了事嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：不會啦！不會這樣。"],["郭委員國文：所有的陳情案件一來，還是照常如實，對不對？你要繳稅、退稅都同樣的模式，都要便捷化。"],["莊部長翠雲：當然，如果在……"],["郭委員國文：海關5天，其他單位就5天；沒有海關5天，其他單位一個半月的道理，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，要求快當然也需要正確，我們也需要就資料來審核。"],["郭委員國文：好，本席還有一件一直放在心裡，你們沒有辦法說服本席的就是TISA的部分，你們對TISA的部分就是維持生活所得支出可以扣除，是從所得稅的角度來看。本席是說，如果從一個好的、有利於人民政策的TISA，為什麼人家的NISA可以做第一代，還做到第二代，可以讓整個資產的配置更加理性化？而我們在稅制上的優惠沒有辦法除了所得稅之外以其他的扣稅，這個不是鼓勵投資，而是鼓勵投資代替儲蓄的可能性把它拉高，所有的工具都在你們手上，這個拉高之後有什麼好處？我就舉一個例子，現在所有在證券市場當中，對於租稅優惠可以幫助整個證券市場的，包括人民理財的部分其實不外乎有三種，一個是TISA、NISA，一個是ETF，一個是REITs，臺灣三個投資工具就是少了人家兩個，連ETF的稅率也是1%而已，它還是有優惠啊！這種情況底下這麼好的方式，我實在搞不清楚為什麼財政部想了這麼久、反抗這麼久，沒有找出一個替代方案？部長，願聞高見。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，有關TISA部分的租稅優惠，我們和金管會其實都一直在持續的溝通中。"],["郭委員國文：金管會找出一個減免手續費的方式解決不了問題啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：我們也把各個國家在類似TISA或NISA這樣的租稅優惠做了一個表列，然後去做相互的比較，臺灣現在對於這樣情形的租稅優惠，其實已經優於其他各國了。"],["郭委員國文：對，所以你要找其他的可能性，不是從所得稅的角度而已嘛！本席剛剛就跟你講過。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我們這個部分……"],["郭委員國文：本席剛剛有跟你講過嘛！你現在所謂的維持生活基本支出，如果按照這個原則，現在是負利率的情況底下，他也沒有辦法維持基本生活支出啊！所有國人的金融資產占比當中，即便ETF增加，也沒有變得比較高，以臺灣的證券市場算是正面的，長期投資是好的情況底下，你為何不讓國人有個機會呢？透過租稅工具的方式呢？部長，請你回去再思考一下可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我們再回去……"],["郭委員國文：最後，我再用短暫的時間問一下，最新的消息是兆元計畫，兆元計畫是本席要求國發會建立一個平臺溝通，溝通的結果所謂要建構一個平臺還是推回來給財政部處理，推回來給財政部處理的公建計畫也好，或者是物流倉儲也好、捷運也好，我覺得目前設定的都是很好的標的，我要問一下，這個平臺建置了沒有，財政部？"],["莊部長翠雲：將來會有，我們從114年開始會有一個促參專案辦公室，然後有一個平臺……"],["郭委員國文：專案辦公室？就是平臺嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：然後也會有一個院級跨部會的促參推動的平臺。"],["郭委員國文：就是你們處理，大概什麼時候完成？"],["莊部長翠雲：財政部這邊，明年就開始了。"],["郭委員國文：明年就開始，院級的什麼時候開始？"],["莊部長翠雲：院級的其實現在已經都在密集地討論當中了。"],["郭委員國文：院級的只是會議平臺而已，就我知道是這樣子。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們跟金管會、行政院都一直在開會。"],["郭委員國文：保險基金總共還有3.27億，我跟你講，外界講說只要保險基金的利率有3%就值得投資，我說實在，從實務上來看，不只3%，至少要5%。所以現在透過這個促參方式，你還要去統合一個可能性，就是他有沒有可能把促參的標的再透過組合性的投資，像是跟REITs的部分combine在一起的可能性？"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊，這就是金管會一起加入這個平臺的主要目的。"],["郭委員國文：是，這樣才能創造出來相對高的利率所得，才能吸引更多基金投入公建跟捷運開發，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，多元的管道讓資金可以進來。"],["郭委員國文：但是部長我提醒你，你是爐主喔，不是別人喔！以後這個成績我每半年會跟你要求一次，看你有沒有成績，不要每半年都空白，這樣就難看了喔！部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員。"],["郭委員國文：謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝郭委員的質詢。","下一位請賴惠員委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-9","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","李坤城","李彥秀","羅明才","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部賦稅署、臺北國稅局、高雄國稅局、北區國\n稅局及所屬、中區國稅局及所屬、南區國稅局及所屬、關務署及所屬、國有財產署及所屬歲出預\n算部分暨融資財源調度（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310101_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}