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他們認為應該由中央來統籌來決定因為這種好人也好壞人也好你不要丟給地方縣市首長來做嘛比如說我隔壁縣市他免徵了免徵這個將會到臺北市唱這個演唱會可以免徵娛樂稅啊對不起到我新北市或桃園市我就要科娛樂稅那大家壓力通通來啦對不對"},{"start":222.29,"end":233.655,"text":"所以這件事情啊我還是認為啊應該由中央來做統籌你就把責任擔起來好那你一定會說哎可是地方不願意這個娛樂稅免徵啊因為娛樂稅就是地方的稅收嘛那我請問一下娛樂稅一年多少錢"},{"start":242.813,"end":262.167,"text":"全年大概19億19億但是我們現在是新的修正修草案在院裡面大概就是對競技還有藝文活動授權地方政府可以減免這都可以有訂那像高雄市他事實上他有很多演唱會他其實都已經在沒有免徵那個沒錯啊所以我就說因為財政比較好的狀況他就可以去免徵所以我在這邊要講我們一年20億啊"},{"start":272.321,"end":298.21,"text":"其實對中央來講你稅收超徵今年稅收超徵起碼4千億啦20億對中央來講真的零頭都不到可是對一些尤其比較財政比較困難的縣市那個就是他們的主要的稅收之一所以其實中央來定哪些項目可以免徵然後由中央把這些的金額補貼給他們"},{"start":300.231,"end":300.271,"text":"19億的這個娛樂稅稅收"},{"start":320.231,"end":320.391,"text":"KTV、小鋼珠"},{"start":335.838,"end":338.141,"text":"至於我們剛講的全部都排在集會後面所以我們在這個娛樂稅這一次的去調整跟檢討是非常好的事情但是呢我覺得不要造成地方縣市政府的困擾我剛講嘛你不要讓他一定要做黑臉嘛"},{"start":352.856,"end":380.395,"text":"他做白臉呢他他要勒緊褲腰帶他做黑臉呢那他也很痛苦啊是不是所以是不是由中央你們現在的修法是第一項第一到四款是可以由中央中央來決對地方縣市政府來決定是不是你中央就把它決定下去然後這麼少的這個稅收啊我們去補助給補助給這個相關的地方政府是不是一個可以去考慮的方向"},{"start":381.277,"end":401.333,"text":"委員您說得很實但是我們在邀請地方政府開會的時候他們並不這樣認為他們認為說還是要讓他自己決定因為他覺得這是他的財政自己決定沒有我聽到的我聽到的都是希望中央趕快自己決定要補貼給他們就好了有的時候你會辦的藝文活動或競技比賽事實上可以產生很大的其他的"},{"start":401.493,"end":402.394,"text":"市長,我不會憑空去講這些話,如果地方縣市政府都很需要的話,我根本不用浪費我的質詢時間,因為我就是聽到真的好幾個縣市長跟我講,"},{"start":425.589,"end":432.672,"text":"是希望乾脆只有中央做決定另外你們的修法說實在像尤其電影是最離譜的啦因為電影原來呢是非常高這個國片30%其他的片子外國語片呢"},{"start":442.777,"end":454.705,"text":"是60%那現在你們把它修到15%可是部長你也知道齁事實上現在各縣市有關電影只有0.5%到1%各縣市唷只有0.5%到1%連2%我都找不到了所以"},{"start":463.444,"end":477.296,"text":"你們的修法這個稅率是不是有點太偏離現在實際的狀況?如果在我來看,我覺得影片、電影也應該免徵啊。你知道很多的地方縣市,現在連一個電影院都沒有了。現在很多都是那個數位串流,所以連電影院都沒有了。"},{"start":484.714,"end":505.789,"text":"即便是六都吧其實電影的稅率他們定的也都很低只有0.5%有的是1%而已所以你們現在各個的所謂的現行稅率其實比實際的稅率啊實際現在各縣市的稅率差的很多所以這樣的修法已經不切實際了已經不切實際了你承認吧"},{"start":513.723,"end":539.19,"text":"因為我們訂的是一個上限那我們也了解過各縣市政府實際上收的一個稅率所以我們就往下降當然您說現在往下降以後我們的草案往下降和它實際收取的一個稅率還是有一段距離那它在這個上限之下都可以自行去決定另外電影也是屬於藝文活動之中的一項我們也已經授權在這個草案已經授權地方政府可以去做全免也都可以的"},{"start":541.958,"end":562.586,"text":"我必須講由中央來決定它是一個比較政策的方向我剛才講電影真的你現在電影把它全部取消我覺得都應該了真的你做到再弄一個電影院其實經營起來都是很困難尤其你離開六都之後真的很多都根本沒有整個縣市一家電影院都沒有了"},{"start":563.346,"end":578.023,"text":"所以我在這邊最後剩一點時間我還是希望針對電影、針對演唱會、針對運動競技由我們中央的部分從財政部就直接把它作為免徵"},{"start":579.301,"end":592.14,"text":"那真的也不需要到地方大家來吵吵鬧鬧了啦你看比如說現在那個臺北市政府啊我看到也有些這個民進黨市議員說啊你沒有guts你要趕快把它怎麼免徵什麼之類的"},{"start":593.689,"end":616.964,"text":"基本上只要我們中央來做修法其實臺北市就會立刻配合啦他會立刻配合的但是我覺得有些部分是不是由中央就拿出一個態度來我剛才講如果這個稅收真的像貨物稅我們說貨物稅不是很好的稅對不對但是貨物稅它的稅收很多你沒有辦法放棄這個稅收"},{"start":618.405,"end":625.968,"text":"一律稅全部加起來20億而且我剛講最主要的貢獻我也沒有讓你免徵啊但是這些根本已經聊勝於無擺在那邊只是在這邊做樣子的"},{"start":635.892,"end":647.881,"text":"為什麼不能夠由中央來做免徵也是一個政策我們也鼓勵縣市去發展不管是大巨蛋經濟或者你巨蛋經濟或者演唱會經濟棒球經濟隨便啦對不對這也是一個態度嘛"},{"start":653.776,"end":664.88,"text":"所以您一開始也問過說我們有沒有去跟地方政府研議過這個事實上我們是不止一次跟地方政府討論結果他們的意見其實都已經歸納在我們這一次的修法草案裡面那我怎麼還聽到那麼多的不同的聲音真的就跟我講說拜託能不能讓中央自己聽下去就好了"},{"start":675.983,"end":676.303,"text":"了解委員的意見謝謝"},{"start":711.332,"end":712.448,"text":"最終請尹寬成委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:14:35+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:14:36+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我請莊部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T10:14:36+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:14:37+08:00","text":"有請莊部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:14:37+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:14:38+08:00","text":"請賦稅署署長也一起來。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T10:14:38+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:14:39+08:00","text":"請賦稅署宋署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:14:39+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:14:40+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:14:40+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:14:41+08:00","text":"部長好、署長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:14:36.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:14:36.960000+08:00","text":"昨天有看棒球嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:14:36.960000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:14:54.216000+08:00","text":"有看一些，沒有全場。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:14:54.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:15:09.555000+08:00","text":"署長一直在點頭，我想這兩天全國都在瘋棒球，因為中華隊打出非常好的成績，但是另外一方面也開始有一些討論，就是像棒球的競技比賽或者是演唱會之類的，尤其像臺北市因為大巨蛋的開幕，所以不管是球賽或者是演唱會，都受到高度的矚目。","quality":0.465},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:15:10.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:15:36.939000+08:00","text":"現在在臺北市的部分，包含一些藝文團體，還有一些地方的民意代表就開始一直有一個聲音說臺北市是不是應該取消娛樂稅、免徵娛樂稅？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:15:36.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:15:38.242000+08:00","text":"主要是包含演唱會、包含競技比賽。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:15:45.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:16:02.707000+08:00","text":"事實上，現在娛樂稅法的修正案也在我們立法院要進行審查，我想請問一下，在財政部提出娛樂稅法、娛樂稅條例的修正之前有沒有召集地方縣市政府來討論過？","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:16:02.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:16:08.349000+08:00","text":"他們希望是由中央來主導還是要授權地方來免徵這些相關的娛樂稅呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:16:11.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:16:25.628000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關娛樂稅這個議題，其實財政部不只一次邀集地方政府來開會，基本上，第一個共識就是地方政府都不贊成廢止娛樂稅條例，因為他們認為這對他們來說還是一個重要的財源，尤其是在縣市裡面的鄉鎮，他收取的就歸這個鄉鎮，所以對他們很重要。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:16:25.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:16:26.508000+08:00","text":"那他們會同意由中央授權地方來廢除嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:16:38.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:16:39.295000+08:00","text":"應該是免徵，不能廢除。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:16:39.295000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:16:46.920000+08:00","text":"第一個，我們對娛樂稅的項目也做了一個檢討；第二個，因為現在娛樂稅的稅率是訂上限，那這個上限我們也了解地方政府其實都沒有用到這麼高的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:16:46.920000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:16:54.545000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:16:54.545000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:17:02.170000+08:00","text":"所以我們就把上限往下降，讓他們可以在裡面自行訂定，因為現在本來就是訂一個上限，讓他們在裡面去訂定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:17:02.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:17:04.290000+08:00","text":"好，部長，我可以跟你說，其實最近我們國民黨團去拜訪了非常多的縣市，很多縣市首長事實上都反映，對娛樂稅其實他們並不希望由中央來授權地方，為什麼呢？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:17:04.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:17:32.680000+08:00","text":"你想想看，我認為當這個稅法一通過之後，可能第一個作為領頭羊的就是臺北市，我剛剛講臺北市有大巨蛋經濟，所以臺北市非常有可能對球賽還有演唱會免徵娛樂稅，但是其他縣市政府未必有這樣的能力，所以很多縣市政府給我的反映是什麼呢？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:17:32.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:17:52.519000+08:00","text":"第一個，他們說娛樂稅當然是地方的稅源；第二個，他們認為應該由中央來統籌、來決定，因為不管是好人也好、壞人也好，你不要丟給地方縣市首長來做嘛！","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:17:52.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:17:54.060000+08:00","text":"比如說，我隔壁的縣市免徵了，江蕙到臺北市開演唱會可以免徵娛樂稅，對不起！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:17:54.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:17:55.461000+08:00","text":"到新北市或桃園市就要課娛樂稅，那大家的壓力就通通來了，對不對？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:18:17.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:18:24.953000+08:00","text":"所以這件事情我還是認為應該由中央來做統籌，你們這邊就把責任擔起來。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:18:24.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:18:28.655000+08:00","text":"好，那你一定會說，可是地方不願意娛樂稅免徵，因為娛樂稅就是地方的稅收，那我請問一下，娛樂稅一年有多少錢？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:18:37.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:18:50.682000+08:00","text":"全年大概是19億，我們現在是有新的修正草案在院裡面，大概就是對競技還有藝文活動授權地方政府可以減免，這都可以來訂。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:18:50.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:18:54.565000+08:00","text":"像高雄市事實上有很多演唱會，其實都已經免徵娛樂稅，用文獎條例也可以做啊！","quality":0.606},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:18:54.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:18:55.165000+08:00","text":"沒錯啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:18:55.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:18:56.546000+08:00","text":"所以我就說財政狀況比較好的就可以免徵。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:18:56.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:18:57.546000+08:00","text":"對，要看各個地方政府的狀況。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:18:56.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:18:57.146000+08:00","text":"所以我在這邊要講，我們一年20億啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:19:07.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:19:35.251000+08:00","text":"其實對中央來講，你的稅收超徵，今年的稅收超徵起碼4,000億，20億對中央來講真的是連零頭都不到，可是對一些財政比較困難的縣市，那個就是他們主要的稅收之一，所以其實中央來訂哪些項目可以免徵，然後由中央把這些金額補貼給他們，total全部加起來也不過20億，而且事實上我們剛才講的，大家比較希望能夠免徵的部分，比如說棒球等等的運動競技或者演唱會，其實稅收都非常的少，你看我們將近19億的娛樂稅稅收以什麼最多？","quality":0.547},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:19:35.251000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:19:45.241000+08:00","text":"高爾夫球最多，但是現在沒有人認為高爾夫球應該給它免徵，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:19:45.241000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:19:55.231000+08:00","text":"夾娃娃機最多，夾娃娃機每年都在增加，但是大家也不會覺得夾娃娃機要給它免徵嘛，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:19:55.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:19:55.371000+08:00","text":"還有KTV、小鋼珠。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:20:10.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:20:33.180000+08:00","text":"至於我們剛剛講的，全部都排在極為後面，所以我們娛樂稅這次去調整跟檢討是非常好的事情，但是我覺得不要造成地方縣市政府的困擾，我剛剛講了，你不要讓它一定要做黑臉嘛，它做白臉的話，它要勒緊褲腰帶，它做黑臉，它也很痛苦啊！","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:20:33.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:20:33.960000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:20:34.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:20:36.342000+08:00","text":"所以是不是由中央來決定？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:20:36.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:20:46.509000+08:00","text":"你們現在的修法是第一項一至四款可以由地方縣市政府來決定，是不是你中央就把它決定下去？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:20:47.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:20:55.375000+08:00","text":"然後這麼少的稅收，我們去補助給相關的地方政府，是不是一個可以考慮的方向？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:20:56.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:21:05.664000+08:00","text":"委員，您說得是，但是我們邀集地方政府開會的時候，他們並不這樣認為，他們認為還是要讓它自己決定，因為它覺得這是它的財政自主權。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:21:05.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:21:11.609000+08:00","text":"沒有，我聽到的都是希望中央趕快自己決定，然後補貼給他們就好了。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:21:11.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:21:16.313000+08:00","text":"有時候你辦了藝文活動或競技比賽，事實上可以產生很大的其他效應、帶來其他很多的商機，所以這個本身來說是他們可以去做一些運用的工具或方法，對他們來說，這是很重要的，他們並不希望中央補他們這麼一些……","quality":0.303},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:21:16.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:21:42.630000+08:00","text":"部長，我不會憑空去講這些話，如果地方縣市政府都很需要的話，我根本不用浪費我的質詢時間，因為我就是真的聽到好幾個縣市長跟我講，希望乾脆直接中央做決定。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:21:43.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:22:25.090000+08:00","text":"另外，你們的修法，說實在的，尤其電影是最離譜的，因為電影原來的稅率是非常高，國片是30%，其他的片子、外國語片是60%，現在你們把它修到15%，可是部長你也知道，事實上，現在各縣市有關電影只有0.5%到1%，各縣市只有0.5%到1%，連2%我都找不到，所以你們修法的這個稅率是不是有點太偏離現在實際的狀況？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:22:25.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:22:27.952000+08:00","text":"在我來看，我覺得電影也應該免徵。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:22:28.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:23:00.769000+08:00","text":"你知道很多地方縣市現在連一個電影院都沒有了，現在很多都是數位串流，所以連電影院都沒有了，即便是六都，其實他們訂的電影稅率也都很低，只有0.5%，有的是1%而已，所以你們所謂的現行稅率，其實現在各縣市實際的稅率差得很多，所以這樣的修法已經不切實際了，你承認吧！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:23:08.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:23:25.748000+08:00","text":"是、對，因為我們訂的是一個上限，我們也了解過各縣市政府實際上收的稅率，所以我們就往下降，當然您說現在我們的草案把它往下降以後，和它實際收取的稅率還是有一段距離，它在這個上限之下都可以自行去決定。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:23:26.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:23:34.170000+08:00","text":"另外，電影也是屬於藝文活動之中的一項，我們在這個草案也已經授權地方政府可以去減免或全免，都是可以的。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:23:36.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:23:45.841000+08:00","text":"我必須講，由中央來決定，它比較是一個政策的方向，我剛剛講到電影，你現在把電影的部分全部取消，我真的覺得都應該啦。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:23:47.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:23:57.566000+08:00","text":"你說要弄一個電影院，其實經營起來都是很困難，尤其離開六都之後，真的很多根本都沒有了，整個縣市一家電影院都沒有了。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:23:58.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:24:17.446000+08:00","text":"最後剩一點時間，我還是希望針對電影、針對演唱會、針對運動競技，由中央的財政部就直接把它作為免徵，真的也不需要到地方大家來吵吵鬧鬧了啦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:24:18.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:24:27.120000+08:00","text":"你看比如說現在臺北市政府，我看到也有一些民進黨市議員說你沒有guts，你要趕快把它免徵什麼之類的。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:24:28.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:24:42.298000+08:00","text":"基本上，只要我們中央修法，其實臺北市就會立刻配合啦，它會立刻配合的，但是我覺得有些部分是不是就由中央拿出一個態度來？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:24:42.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:24:48.462000+08:00","text":"我剛才講，如果這個稅收真的像貨物稅，我們說貨物稅不是很好的稅，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:24:48.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:13.314000+08:00","text":"但是貨物稅的稅收很多，你沒有辦法放棄這個稅收，娛樂稅夯不啷噹全部加起來20億，而且我剛剛講，最主要的貢獻我也沒有讓你免徵啊，像高爾夫球、夾娃娃機，這些我也沒有讓你免徵啊，但是這些根本已經聊勝於無，擺在那邊只是在做樣子，為什麼不能夠由中央來做免徵？","quality":0.755},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:13.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:14.335000+08:00","text":"也是一個政策。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:14.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:22.681000+08:00","text":"我們也鼓勵縣市去發展，不管是大巨蛋經濟，或者巨蛋經濟，或者演唱會經濟、棒球經濟，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:22.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:22.861000+08:00","text":"這也是一個態度嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:29.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:37.679000+08:00","text":"委員，你一開始也問過我們有沒有跟地方政府研議過，事實上我們不只一次跟地方政府討論，他們的意見其實都已經歸納在我們這一次的修法草案裡面，他們對於……","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:37.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:38.499000+08:00","text":"那我怎麼還聽到那麼多不同的聲音？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:38.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:39.059000+08:00","text":"真的就跟我講說，拜託……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:39.059000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:40.059000+08:00","text":"會議上的意見……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:39.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:39.860000+08:00","text":"能不能讓中央自己訂下去就好了？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:39.860000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:42.640750+08:00","text":"事實上他們在會議上，他們都……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:42.640750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:45.421500+08:00","text":"你想想看縣市長，有些是財政局搞不清楚狀況，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:45.421500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:48.202250+08:00","text":"他很單純，他用那種幕僚，縣市長一聽到就想：開玩笑，我要做這個壞人喔，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:48.202250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:50.983000+08:00","text":"所以請你們再去問一問縣市意見，而且我覺得對你們來講，這部分的稅收非常非常的少，不需要執著於這麼一點點的稅收，而造成縣市這麼大的困擾，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:50.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:25:51.303000+08:00","text":"了解委員的意見，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-11-18T10:25:51.303000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T10:26:26.941000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員玉珍）","start":"2024-11-18T10:26:26.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T10:26:27.448000+08:00","text":"接著我們請顏寬恒委員。","quality":0.4}]},"gazette":{"lineno":525,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時14分）謝謝主席，我請莊部長。"],["主席：有請莊部長。"],["王委員鴻薇：請賦稅署署長也一起來。"],["主席：請賦稅署宋署長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長好、署長好。昨天有看棒球嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：有看一些，沒有全場。"],["王委員鴻薇：署長一直在點頭，我想這兩天全國都在瘋棒球，因為中華隊打出非常好的成績，但是另外一方面也開始有一些討論，就是像棒球的競技比賽或者是演唱會之類的，尤其像臺北市因為大巨蛋的開幕，所以不管是球賽或者是演唱會，都受到高度的矚目。現在在臺北市的部分，包含一些藝文團體，還有一些地方的民意代表就開始一直有一個聲音說臺北市是不是應該取消娛樂稅、免徵娛樂稅？主要是包含演唱會、包含競技比賽。事實上，現在娛樂稅法的修正案也在我們立法院要進行審查，我想請問一下，在財政部提出娛樂稅法、娛樂稅條例的修正之前有沒有召集地方縣市政府來討論過？他們希望是由中央來主導還是要授權地方來免徵這些相關的娛樂稅呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，有關娛樂稅這個議題，其實財政部不只一次邀集地方政府來開會，基本上，第一個共識就是地方政府都不贊成廢止娛樂稅條例，因為他們認為這對他們來說還是一個重要的財源，尤其是在縣市裡面的鄉鎮，他收取的就歸這個鄉鎮，所以對他們很重要。"],["王委員鴻薇：那他們會同意由中央授權地方來廢除嗎？應該是免徵，不能廢除。"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，我們對娛樂稅的項目也做了一個檢討；第二個，因為現在娛樂稅的稅率是訂上限，那這個上限我們也了解地方政府其實都沒有用到這麼高的……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，沒錯。"],["莊部長翠雲：所以我們就把上限往下降，讓他們可以在裡面自行訂定，因為現在本來就是訂一個上限，讓他們在裡面去訂定。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，部長，我可以跟你說，其實最近我們國民黨團去拜訪了非常多的縣市，很多縣市首長事實上都反映，對娛樂稅其實他們並不希望由中央來授權地方，為什麼呢？你想想看，我認為當這個稅法一通過之後，可能第一個作為領頭羊的就是臺北市，我剛剛講臺北市有大巨蛋經濟，所以臺北市非常有可能對球賽還有演唱會免徵娛樂稅，但是其他縣市政府未必有這樣的能力，所以很多縣市政府給我的反映是什麼呢？第一個，他們說娛樂稅當然是地方的稅源；第二個，他們認為應該由中央來統籌、來決定，因為不管是好人也好、壞人也好，你不要丟給地方縣市首長來做嘛！比如說，我隔壁的縣市免徵了，江蕙到臺北市開演唱會可以免徵娛樂稅，對不起！到新北市或桃園市就要課娛樂稅，那大家的壓力就通通來了，對不對？所以這件事情我還是認為應該由中央來做統籌，你們這邊就把責任擔起來。好，那你一定會說，可是地方不願意娛樂稅免徵，因為娛樂稅就是地方的稅收，那我請問一下，娛樂稅一年有多少錢？"],["莊部長翠雲：全年大概是19億，我們現在是有新的修正草案在院裡面，大概就是對競技還有藝文活動授權地方政府可以減免，這都可以來訂。像高雄市事實上有很多演唱會，其實都已經免徵娛樂稅，用文獎條例也可以做啊！"],["王委員鴻薇：沒錯啊！所以我就說財政狀況比較好的就可以免徵。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，要看各個地方政府的狀況。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我在這邊要講，我們一年20億啊！其實對中央來講，你的稅收超徵，今年的稅收超徵起碼4,000億，20億對中央來講真的是連零頭都不到，可是對一些財政比較困難的縣市，那個就是他們主要的稅收之一，所以其實中央來訂哪些項目可以免徵，然後由中央把這些金額補貼給他們，total全部加起來也不過20億，而且事實上我們剛才講的，大家比較希望能夠免徵的部分，比如說棒球等等的運動競技或者演唱會，其實稅收都非常的少，你看我們將近19億的娛樂稅稅收以什麼最多？高爾夫球最多，但是現在沒有人認為高爾夫球應該給它免徵，對不對？夾娃娃機最多，夾娃娃機每年都在增加，但是大家也不會覺得夾娃娃機要給它免徵嘛，對不對？還有KTV、小鋼珠。至於我們剛剛講的，全部都排在極為後面，所以我們娛樂稅這次去調整跟檢討是非常好的事情，但是我覺得不要造成地方縣市政府的困擾，我剛剛講了，你不要讓它一定要做黑臉嘛，它做白臉的話，它要勒緊褲腰帶，它做黑臉，它也很痛苦啊！是不是？所以是不是由中央來決定？你們現在的修法是第一項一至四款可以由地方縣市政府來決定，是不是你中央就把它決定下去？然後這麼少的稅收，我們去補助給相關的地方政府，是不是一個可以考慮的方向？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，您說得是，但是我們邀集地方政府開會的時候，他們並不這樣認為，他們認為還是要讓它自己決定，因為它覺得這是它的財政自主權。"],["王委員鴻薇：沒有，我聽到的都是希望中央趕快自己決定，然後補貼給他們就好了。"],["莊部長翠雲：有時候你辦了藝文活動或競技比賽，事實上可以產生很大的其他效應、帶來其他很多的商機，所以這個本身來說是他們可以去做一些運用的工具或方法，對他們來說，這是很重要的，他們並不希望中央補他們這麼一些……"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，我不會憑空去講這些話，如果地方縣市政府都很需要的話，我根本不用浪費我的質詢時間，因為我就是真的聽到好幾個縣市長跟我講，希望乾脆直接中央做決定。","另外，你們的修法，說實在的，尤其電影是最離譜的，因為電影原來的稅率是非常高，國片是30%，其他的片子、外國語片是60%，現在你們把它修到15%，可是部長你也知道，事實上，現在各縣市有關電影只有0.5%到1%，各縣市只有0.5%到1%，連2%我都找不到，所以你們修法的這個稅率是不是有點太偏離現在實際的狀況？在我來看，我覺得電影也應該免徵。你知道很多地方縣市現在連一個電影院都沒有了，現在很多都是數位串流，所以連電影院都沒有了，即便是六都，其實他們訂的電影稅率也都很低，只有0.5%，有的是1%而已，所以你們所謂的現行稅率，其實現在各縣市實際的稅率差得很多，所以這樣的修法已經不切實際了，你承認吧！"],["莊部長翠雲：是、對，因為我們訂的是一個上限，我們也了解過各縣市政府實際上收的稅率，所以我們就往下降，當然您說現在我們的草案把它往下降以後，和它實際收取的稅率還是有一段距離，它在這個上限之下都可以自行去決定。","另外，電影也是屬於藝文活動之中的一項，我們在這個草案也已經授權地方政府可以去減免或全免，都是可以的。"],["王委員鴻薇：我必須講，由中央來決定，它比較是一個政策的方向，我剛剛講到電影，你現在把電影的部分全部取消，我真的覺得都應該啦。你說要弄一個電影院，其實經營起來都是很困難，尤其離開六都之後，真的很多根本都沒有了，整個縣市一家電影院都沒有了。最後剩一點時間，我還是希望針對電影、針對演唱會、針對運動競技，由中央的財政部就直接把它作為免徵，真的也不需要到地方大家來吵吵鬧鬧了啦。","你看比如說現在臺北市政府，我看到也有一些民進黨市議員說你沒有guts，你要趕快把它免徵什麼之類的。基本上，只要我們中央修法，其實臺北市就會立刻配合啦，它會立刻配合的，但是我覺得有些部分是不是就由中央拿出一個態度來？我剛才講，如果這個稅收真的像貨物稅，我們說貨物稅不是很好的稅，對不對？但是貨物稅的稅收很多，你沒有辦法放棄這個稅收，娛樂稅夯不啷噹全部加起來20億，而且我剛剛講，最主要的貢獻我也沒有讓你免徵啊，像高爾夫球、夾娃娃機，這些我也沒有讓你免徵啊，但是這些根本已經聊勝於無，擺在那邊只是在做樣子，為什麼不能夠由中央來做免徵？也是一個政策。我們也鼓勵縣市去發展，不管是大巨蛋經濟，或者巨蛋經濟，或者演唱會經濟、棒球經濟，對不對？這也是一個態度嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，你一開始也問過我們有沒有跟地方政府研議過，事實上我們不只一次跟地方政府討論，他們的意見其實都已經歸納在我們這一次的修法草案裡面，他們對於……"],["王委員鴻薇：那我怎麼還聽到那麼多不同的聲音？真的就跟我講說，拜託……"],["莊部長翠雲：會議上的意見……"],["王委員鴻薇：能不能讓中央自己訂下去就好了？"],["莊部長翠雲：事實上他們在會議上，他們都……"],["王委員鴻薇：你想想看縣市長，有些是財政局搞不清楚狀況，對不對？他很單純，他用那種幕僚，縣市長一聽到就想：開玩笑，我要做這個壞人喔，對不對？所以請你們再去問一問縣市意見，而且我覺得對你們來講，這部分的稅收非常非常的少，不需要執著於這麼一點點的稅收，而造成縣市這麼大的困擾，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：了解委員的意見，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員玉珍）：接著我們請顏寬恒委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-9","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","李坤城","李彥秀","羅明才","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部賦稅署、臺北國稅局、高雄國稅局、北區國\n稅局及所屬、中區國稅局及所屬、南區國稅局及所屬、關務署及所屬、國有財產署及所屬歲出預\n算部分暨融資財源調度（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310101_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}