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:333.423,"end":333.544,"text":"再來啊齁"},{"start":351.684,"end":364.939,"text":"你這個科技發展只有50億我看了一些資料今天昨天的報紙說農業科技我們的種苗、疫苗各方面就是等於晶片一樣"},{"start":366.517,"end":387.552,"text":"我常常在看你們的科專計畫裡面,我覺得很難找,你要農業做好,我們就像胸片一樣要有很好的品種、很好的異種出來。但是到這裡,我早就跟你們說,把你們科研的計畫理念有好的新的產品,沒關係,問題要問問。"},{"start":393.089,"end":396.538,"text":"我經常看你們說台灣農業興奮,但台灣又選到產權,我又不知幾月選到產權了。"},{"start":401.609,"end":420.204,"text":"我自己怎麼說這個問題,你們的風鈴我大概五本雜誌我一定要看,風鈴還有什麼農場椅什麼還有茶葉桌,這多看多把地形,那你們有這麼好的研發,你應該要做清楚,讓我們去了解,這裡這麼多禮物在哪裡,不像我在政科。"},{"start":423.366,"end":449.411,"text":"因為我一直在看這一些有沒有新的東西,看烏閣諸主審,如果你海邊把它種下來,那整個景觀不一樣,價值又高。你只用水供,不然拿一些資料展現你們科技的研發成果。你們的成功研驗,你們的農業實驗所、林業實驗所、醫業實驗所那麼多,我就不知道你們在做什麼。"},{"start":455.097,"end":466.971,"text":"臺灣的90%以上的研發成果都是我們試驗單位提供的可是他們的宣導我是覺得說沒有一些系統性的宣導讓農民知道那這個部分我想我們會來努力由科技市這邊來主責"},{"start":469.133,"end":469.693,"text":"發言委員：發言委員：發言委員："},{"start":499.551,"end":511.936,"text":"我們有農金署的署長有來。好。講到這個問題就很敏感。您進口蛋的時候,就是超支阿。阿你農業金庫,齁,都中酒齁,這個..."},{"start":516.741,"end":524.987,"text":"這個中央市產會,農政15頁。農政15頁是第8。沒有沒有,我不管多少,你先聽我說,你不要一直以便排。7.5億有擔保,7.5億沒有擔保。沒有擔保你這樣處理,你們都沒人講話。還是講家對講家,講家好辦事情。"},{"start":544.565,"end":545.505,"text":"你農業金庫換工股的你占了41.62%"},{"start":572.691,"end":576.912,"text":"農業部37.59、農業信保基約4.03、Gaia 41.6但是換農業會的體系是58.33現在農業金庫的五席獨立董事由於農業部指派我們推薦"},{"start":596.133,"end":617.884,"text":"這當然是法規的問題,跟現在的同儲分配款相關,誰當家、誰當錢,又有錢又有錢都不想放,但是你是還在出生的。我覺得農業基金庫的獨立董事,你也要"},{"start":619.281,"end":638.076,"text":"民間的股份你也要尊重。你知道嗎?現在公司法跟證券交易法,裡面有股票超過1%就有資格推薦這個獨立董事。阿你現在泛民股50倍的"},{"start":639.497,"end":656.992,"text":"沒有一點推薦的權利。我曉得這時代的背景,看你有沒有大作為。你如果這樣子去危險的換農業,那個換農業會體系將五十八%你也要留三個兩個人,才有監督的作用。"},{"start":657.552,"end":678.28,"text":"因為時間有關係,我跟委員報告,我們會後是不是再跟委員做充分的說明。好,這個改進一下,現在出現的,要有社會公平的觀念。我想我們會跟委員做充分的說明。兩分鐘到你怎麼站起來,不是要給我嗎?你以為小的問這樣敏感的問題,你就跳出來啊。這個問題我也想了解,這個也一起來跟我講一下。"},{"start":679.84,"end":683.805,"text":"這問題很重要我也想了解。你也想問啦,問短一點,你要繼續問繼續追,謝謝。繼續關心,謝謝陳昌明委員,謝謝。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":420,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（10時44分）首先謝謝召委，有請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：請農業部陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早安。"],["陳委員超明：部長早安，部長好。我第一個問題請教，不然我白頭髮會很多。我看你的公共建設裡面有農產品冷鏈物流，113年有34.73億，114年只有16.42億，一下減了21億，我每次質詢時跟你說苗栗要冷鏈物流，你跟我說「不會缺席」，我信心十足，但是我看到預算的時候，我又開始睡不著覺了，這個到底有沒有苗栗，你要跟我講一下。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，第一點，114年度的預算，我們計畫的執行期間是114年到117年，整個大計畫大概將近有71億左右，這個部分行政院還在審查，但是它先編列114年度的預算，114年度的預算最主要是處理之前還在興建的這個部分。第二個，有一部分的畜牧移出來，過去23億還有一部分是畜牧……"],["陳委員超明：你講得讓我聽了很高興，還有百多億要來做冷鏈物流，這是以前還沒做完成的，你現在補給它了……"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以……"],["陳委員超明：但我的重點問題是，你答應我的苗栗冷鏈物流有沒有啦？"],["陳部長駿季：我們已經在審查，審查通過的話，一定會想辦法爭取預算去支應。"],["陳委員超明：我苗栗縣政府為了這個冷鏈物流花了1億去買土地，開始要把事情做好……"],["陳部長駿季：現在在審查，現在在審查。"],["陳委員超明：現在在審查，請你儘量、儘速通過，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我說114到117國發會正在審查我們整體的經費……"],["陳委員超明：好，那就再拜託你。"],["陳部長駿季：已經審查過的時候，我們經費的編列……"],["陳委員超明：你說得這麼長，我只想聽你說有還是沒有，你跟我說「有」，我才笑得出來。"],["陳部長駿季：這件事情不是「有」和「沒有」而已，還有一些前提，行政院要核定這個經費以後我們才會處理嘛！"],["陳委員超明：我都瞭解啦！核定下來就是苗栗縣一定有啦！"],["陳部長駿季：苗栗縣本身的審查計畫通過以後才會執行嘛！所以這兩個前提要……"],["陳委員超明：好啦！我要特別拜託農糧署署長，我已經拜託你十幾次了，也就是磕頭而已，要幫我加油一下好嗎？好，謝謝。","再來，部長，我很擔心一個問題，我實在講，我們都說臺灣的農業很強，但我覺得農業非常脆弱。我舉一件事情給你們一個警惕，你講「班班有鮮乳」，我們現在要加入CPTPP，要從早前的開發中國家變成已開發國家，你們從紐西蘭進口鮮乳，因為我之前有處理過這個問題，所以我知道，現在零關稅之後，一個鮮乳就搞到讓臺灣整個鮮乳業變動那麼大。現在從紐西蘭進口鮮乳，還有其他國家也有很多鮮乳，我們加入CPTPP後，要用最高的水準，跟日本、新加坡、美國、加拿大一樣，全面開放農產品進口，你要如何應用啊？"],["陳部長駿季：我向委員報告，加入CPTPP以後其實有個非常大的挑戰，就是關稅的問題。"],["陳委員超明：對，沒有錯。"],["陳部長駿季：關稅的問題上，有立即降稅的，也有一些是在某時間點降稅的，雖然以CPTPP，現在平均關稅率大概是96%，但是也有一些國家是例外的，它的關稅不一定都是零關稅，像日本就是百分之七十幾而已。"],["陳委員超明：現在這個是前哨戰，讓你鍛練身體用的，包括物流、包括這些都好，你要班班有鮮乳，我再教你一個絕招，你不要只靠統一，像黑松哪裡都有經銷商，只要它有冷凍庫，你再補一點錢把它送到學校，每一個負責幾個轄區，一下子就解決了，不要死守那幾個據點，只要有錢就可以推動，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：瞭解，我感謝……"],["陳委員超明：你一直點頭，我都在想這個問題，哪有什麼困難？"],["陳部長駿季：我感謝委員的建議，我們下一次對學校學童鮮乳的時候，會有更好、更精進的方式。兩個原則……"],["陳委員超明：日本有一種小罐的飲料，叫養樂多，它的經銷商那麼多，也有冷凍庫，你叫它送一些給學校去分就好了嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：瞭解。委員，我跟你報告，未來我們在推動學童乳的部分有兩個原則，第一個原則就是不會再對學校的老師造成任何負擔，學校老師這學期的協助我們非常感謝；第二個部分，我們也不會讓縣市政府有不同的意見，我想我們會去協調。"],["陳委員超明：因為是農會科員出身，我是教你可以想出很多辦法解決這些問題，多用腦筋好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["陳委員超明：多用民間的力量。"],["陳部長駿季：感謝。"],["陳委員超明：再來，你這個科技發展只有50億，我看了一些資料，包括今天、昨天的報紙說農業科技，我們的種苗、育苗各方面就跟晶片一樣。我是常常在看，覺得你們的科專計畫錢比較少，你要把農業做好，我們就要像晶片一樣，要有很好的品種、很好的育種出來，這個之前我也跟你們講過，你們的科研計畫裡面，如果有好的、新的產品……","時間怎麼這麼快，我問題還沒問呢！","我常常在看，你們都說臺灣的農業很偉大，臺灣有新的產品，但我卻不知道有幾項新的產品。為什麼我會提這些問題呢？我大概有5本雜誌一定要看，包括「豐年」、「農政與農情」還有「茶情雙月刊」，這些是愈看愈增長知識，你們有這麼好的研發，就應該出書讓我們瞭解。這裡有很多立委住在都市，不像我住在鄉下，因為我一直在看有沒有新的東西，譬如把烏殼綠竹筍種在海邊，整個景觀就不一樣，而且價值又高，但你們只用嘴講，也沒拿出一些資料來展現你們科技的研發成果。你們要像工研院，你們農業試驗所、林業試驗所、水產試驗所那麼多，我就不知道你們在做什麼啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，這點我們也在檢討，臺灣90%以上的研發成果都是我們試驗單位提供的，可是他們的宣導，我是覺得沒有一些系統性的宣導讓農民知道，這個部分我想我們會來努力，由科技司來主責。"],["陳委員超明：部長，這本「豐年」我覺得寫得很好，我從看到這本雜誌以後，就把以前的也買了，我的書櫃裡面只有把這套「豐年」雜誌……"],["陳部長駿季：我們每一期都可以送給委員看。"],["陳委員超明：我看每一期，因為看了可以帶動很多新知，就算是吹牛也有本錢。我跟你說這是實際的，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["陳委員超明：再來，有個問題比較嚴重，我們的農業金庫董事長有沒有來？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們農金署的署長有來。"],["陳委員超明：好。講到這個問題就很敏感，你們進口蛋的時候就是超思，你們的農業金庫總共借給中央畜產會15億……"],["陳部長駿季：5億是豬肉，10億是……"],["陳委員超明：不管多少錢，你先聽我講，不要急於辯白，7.5億有擔保，7.5億沒有擔保，對於沒有擔保就讓錢這樣出去，你們都沒人講話嗎？還是說這是公家對公家，公家好辦事情，隨便通融都可以？"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我跟委員報告，農業金庫的融資貸款一定合於相關規定，擔保的部分會由農信保來擔保。"],["陳委員超明：報告主席，延長2分鐘，拜託一下。"],["主席：那就1分半。"],["陳委員超明：不是1分半，要再多1分鐘。我現在跟你請教，農業金庫股權，泛公股占41.62%，其中農業部占37.59%，農業信保基金是4.03%，加起來就是41.62%，而泛農漁會體系占58.33%，但現在農業金庫的5席獨立董事都由你們農業部指派。"],["陳部長駿季：是我們推薦。"],["陳委員超明：這個當然是法規的問題，就跟現在的統籌分配款一樣，誰當家、誰當權，又有錢又有權，什麼都不想放，但是你是學者出身，我覺得農業金庫的獨立董事也要尊重民間的股份。你知道嗎，現在公司法跟證券交易法有規定，股票超過1%就有資格推薦獨立董事，現在泛民股占58%，卻沒有一點推薦的權利？我曉得這有時代的背景，就看你有沒有大作為，泛農漁會體系占58%，好歹也要讓個兩、三席給人家，才有監督的作用。"],["陳部長駿季：因為時間的關係，我跟委員報告，我們會後是不是再跟委員作充分地說明？"],["陳委員超明：好，這點要改進一下，學者出身的，要有社會公平的觀念。"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們會跟委員作充分地說明。"],["陳委員超明：主席，不是說要給我2分鐘嗎？你怎麼站起來了？不是要給我嗎？"],["主席：過了2分鐘。"],["陳委員超明：你一曉得我要問這樣敏感的問題，你就跳出來了。"],["主席：這個問題我也想瞭解，也一起來跟我講一下，這個問題很重要，我也想瞭解。"],["陳委員超明：你也想問啊！那我問短一點，你要繼續問、繼續追，謝謝。"],["主席：好，繼續關心。謝謝陳超明委員，部長請回座。","下一位請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-14","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳超明","楊瓊瓔","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","呂玉玲","鍾佳濱","林俊憲","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張雅琳","蔡易餘"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案附屬單位預算關於農業部主管，非營業部分：農業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金、\n農業特別收入基金及農民退休基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}