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data的話一百萬及六百萬張的話書已經釋出四十萬張會陸續釋出"},{"start":2152.031,"end":2179.55,"text":"至於故宮的podcast公說公有理的一個下載夜聽的措施的話有610萬次那也吃本各種圖錄期刊另外的話在加強安全韌性升級智慧監控的部分為維護文物及院區的安全升級中央電腦控制安全的核心系統監控設備跟儲存的資料設備加強防衛"},{"start":2181.451,"end":2201.906,"text":"加強化國際交流建立專業形象的部分邀請專家協著辦理博物館開放授權與AI應用的國際論壇那也跟法國的紀密博物館、荷蘭國家博物館、日本大阪市立東洋博物館等博物館簽署解密核定然後促進國際文化的交流"},{"start":2203.376,"end":2221.994,"text":"另外在推動智慧建築追求永續發展的部分的話的故宮特別成立國立故宮博物院警官執行小組及永續發展小組以符合生態經營理念規劃延期警官那在北部縣區的新的行政大樓、圖書館、文獻大樓、典藏大樓、私動建築"},{"start":2223.775,"end":2231.524,"text":"整建或新建進一起的立建築、智慧建築的標章候選證書南部延期停車場規劃太陽能發電的設備另外串聯在地資源媒合產官協會"},{"start":2242.656,"end":2264.273,"text":"2023臺北書展、文創博覽會、臺北國際禮展另外以教育部、文化部、交通部等甚至包括民間博物館及長榮文艳酒店共同推動藝文活動另外的話我們在去年的11月以外賣協會共同參與東京的臺灣形象展成果非常良好"},{"start":2266.353,"end":2273.81,"text":"在113年度工作重點的部分專業服務跨域整合行銷"},{"start":2275.663,"end":2295.301,"text":"這個部分特別提出就是專業研究都面向的策展從不同的面向策展然後讓觀眾可以瞭解故宮文物的一個多元面貌那在113年度一季推出神獸現形文物中的奇幻生物現在在南院展出然後看得見的紅綠青宮行堡"},{"start":2299.164,"end":2310.385,"text":"就是破解天之地號一期密碼然後清代金銀事件特展皇帝的移動花園宮廷的花卉跟公主駕到曾經故宮2.0等展覽"},{"start":2312.717,"end":2339.089,"text":"那在快推教培養年輕觀眾的部分就是運用典藏文物形象故宮以民眾生活達成連結﹐促進社會對話交流那以年輕時代辦理故宮校園大使的計畫﹐招募培訓青年大使跟文化志工那提升身心障礙者﹐文化參與辦理故宮自都心自閉症親子家庭博物館探索活動"},{"start":2340.369,"end":2365.689,"text":"聽容共賞所與導覽活動執行策展專業拓展兒少事務持續辦理策展委員會及兒童及青年執行委員會促進世代對話與跨界的實踐那在充實思維內容發展線上應用方面就是故宮應用數位典藏open data專區提供單一檢索的一個服務"},{"start":2367.05,"end":2388.175,"text":"另外在新媒體數位展的部分．我們今年一季會跟國立海洋科技博物館．國立公共自信圖書館臺中．跟桃園中立的人海工多個管所．辦理數位科技的一個應用展覽那在友善共融推動文化平淺部分．營造友善空間提升參觀環境"},{"start":2393.033,"end":2419.862,"text":"這個部分的話就是在北院的徒數文獻大樓的整建工程跟那個研究大樓的話已經在今年的12月今年底完工那另外的話就是113年南院的部分的話就是南院二館就故宮國保館會辦理特殊裝修工程及部展的一個先期規劃然後戶外延期的細部設計跟延期景觀的設置"},{"start":2422.028,"end":2432.445,"text":"在友善平淺關照社群需求部分辦理觀眾意見調查關照不同課群的多元文化需求精進友善平淺服務打造一清淨的全民博物館"},{"start":2434.239,"end":2458.907,"text":"在國際界展拓展文化視野方面今年會以華國﹑日本等國際博物館進行交流合作推出大美無垣﹑國立故宮博物院﹑巴黎裝飾藝術博物館跟幻客亞保的精品展在故宮北院及南院展出南院的部分今年的亞洲藝術節會推出萬國精良東亞海上的琉球特展"},{"start":2460.107,"end":2475.365,"text":"強化各界合作,跨域文化交流的部分,那這個部分的話就是本院典常委中心,然後辦理多管所的屆展,那另外的話我們也會辦理工作坊跟研討會,然後讓故宮的資源可以深化到各界。"},{"start":2476.506,"end":2491.227,"text":"優化保存環境提升庫房的部分就是我們一直持續在努力就是優化文物的庫房管理提升監控管理跟那個效能以維持延期跟那個典藏庫房的安全"},{"start":2492.509,"end":2514.267,"text":"那跨域支援生跟觀眾經營的話就提供多元的廣道與優惠然後開發青年旅館來參訪的意願那另外配合特展及年度的特殊節日辦理文化體驗活動比如說七年底的話我們辦理的那個博物館之夜今年我們也會持續以規劃來辦理"},{"start":2516.529,"end":2531.374,"text":"至於創新行銷策略開拓旅客市場的部分的話我們持續辦理參加國際展會例如說國際書展、文創展、旅展各種不同的展覽來行銷故宮"},{"start":2533.896,"end":2549.818,"text":"此夕辦理亞洲藝術節以多元形式快樂的展覽活動．展現故宮的文化多元性．另外今年會與德國經濟部國貿組合作．在德國柏林參加臺灣形象展"},{"start":2551.159,"end":2574.807,"text":"最後特別感謝貴院對本院的監督與支持完成113度年度預算的審查本會會漸漸讓預算精準有效率的執行最後感謝大院的支持本院將本禮專業服務開放多元友善共融持續發展讓故宮成為一個更有影響力的博物館謝謝大家"},{"start":2578.322,"end":2589.81,"text":"好,非常謝謝蕭院長的報告時間掌握得很好好,我們現在就開始來進行詢答那每位初期委員質詢的時間是8分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席的委員質詢時間為4分鐘那發言登記的時間截止是在上午10點30分如果有臨時提案就請於上午10點30分"},{"start":2602.059,"end":2602.479,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請蕭院長"},{"start":2637.113,"end":2637.333,"text":"國民黨籍委員"},{"start":2662.389,"end":2684.651,"text":"講一件事情說我們故宮現在會在南院會有一個展覽是防品是增喉以邊中復制品要來南院的二樓大廳展示那有人馬上就會聯想到就是說2015年那個時候這個成龍影星有捐出十二生肖的授手當時被外界質疑說怎麼會"},{"start":2686.072,"end":2686.613,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":2703.027,"end":2718.977,"text":"那一樣本席先講我認為文化可以分當代近代遠代如果說有教育意義文化意義的話我想大家都可以來推廣但現在我們故宮這樣子來這個爭吼以邊中會不會跟過去的這個立場有所不同"},{"start":2721.112,"end":2740.481,"text":"跟委員報告一下當然就是說有些事情時代環境不同整個客觀條件不同的話當然會有差異這也不能講說叫做雙重標準那當時那個搜射手的狀況的話因為我不在任內我不太清楚但是"},{"start":2741.809,"end":2760.856,"text":"這邊的話就是我要澄清的就是第一個曾和宇編宗並不是故宮主動要求的他的情況是因為傳譽中心買了這套編宗1997年買了這套編宗那原來是要作為一個展示因為他傳統藝術中心"},{"start":2762.717,"end":2782.094,"text":"同氣在古代的話除了做了祭氣、禮氣、食氣之外的話它還有一個非常重要的鐘鼎之業就是說它其實是一個業氣那過去的故宮是缺乏這一塊的所以因為因緣際會這一套業氣它行回了中山堂然後國務紀念館"},{"start":2784.056,"end":2804.351,"text":"目前的話是那個國立自然科學博物館之後他們是想找一個地方因為這個編宗的編制很完整需要的空間很大那要表演的時候也需要有一個腹地所以他們看上了故宮來院他們來勘查然後之後後來我了解了之後是問了同事同事說直接找院長"},{"start":2804.991,"end":2806.354,"text":"院長的確有收到他們的電郵我就請藍燕去演出演出的過程經過兩次院長你剛講是說"},{"start":2819.568,"end":2838.501,"text":"歷史博物館傳統藝術中心他們先去勘查了然後之後才來找院長說可不可以擺那他們都已經勘查完畢然後之後才來說他們要來做跟委員報告一下他們去通通看過他們覺得那個地方很滿意所以問了同事同事所以現在是"},{"start":2840.241,"end":2858.129,"text":"最好是直接找院長,所以他們有給我一個email,因為我昨天把這個事情的來龍去魔都查證了是,所以院長現在是那個傳統藝術中心他是文化部下的單位嘛,對不對那你們文化部跟我們故宮兩個單位是完全沒有連結或說完全沒有溝通的管道"},{"start":2859.264,"end":2881.923,"text":"還是沒有公文往返還是現在故宮我覺得最訝異的故宮現在展覽你剛先推給說這個是傳統藝術中心來看的並不是故宮主動邀請但有沒有這件事情有嘛那確實如果說5月就會有展出的話那當然地主是故宮大家一定會認為說這是故宮無論你是主動或是被動那你也是認可這樣的一個展覽嘛"},{"start":2882.903,"end":2901.963,"text":"基本上來講的話現在變成沒有機制還是說故宮沒有審查的機制或是說沒有任何的這種考慮的機制評分的機制還是每一個人都要找院長那就看院長的人情跟誰比較大人脈比較廣還是以前院長當過文化部的主秘所以文化部比較好講話"},{"start":2903.39,"end":2916.178,"text":"跟委員報告不是啦因為基本上來講的話現在的行政慣例的話就好像是生了感冒小病都要去大醫院一樣就是什麼事情的話都會推說上面決定上面決定"},{"start":2919.471,"end":2947.098,"text":"讓本席感到膽戰心驚喔南院的展覽沒有一套的SOP嗎?全部都變成是說委員長拍板定案不是跟委員報告這是一個教育推廣活動那因為這個事情的話當然沒有錯陳理委員講的他牽涉到文化部的相關的關係所以是比較敏感如果是同人自己辦的一個教育推廣活動請一個樂團來表演這些東西的話南院就自己可以做決定了"},{"start":2947.518,"end":2967.996,"text":"所以應該會有SOP嘛或者說他今天有什麼樣的展覽有什麼樣的推廣 有什麼樣的教育符不符合在這個南院的場地因為南院的場地可能沒有場租你國人來看到參觀的民眾不管是外國旅客不管是本國旅客來看到會認為說這個就是故宮呈現的等級的展演嘛"},{"start":2969.037,"end":2990.453,"text":"這是故宮的招牌那我現在在問的是說我們的SOP到底是什麼你現在居然講是說原來是傳統藝術中心的人知道說有院長email我就寫個email問院長說可不可以我自己先偷偷看過了那未來有任何人有院長的email大家都可以主動找你都不用透過我們這些官員"},{"start":2991.744,"end":2993.245,"text":"校長兼壯宗但是大家第一個窗口就要找院長"},{"start":3014.693,"end":3020.396,"text":"院長請聽本席的詢問那您再回答好不好本席只提醒第一我開宗明義講不要雙重標準第二本席也認為說有當代公益之美能夠展演可以展演"},{"start":3041.806,"end":3049.744,"text":"重點是要經過評估重點是經過我們能夠有一個完整的合理的說法而且對外有教育意義"},{"start":3051.141,"end":3078.78,"text":"可以嗎?對對對謝謝蕭學委員的指導基本上來講的話我們會針對這個案子我們召開會議然後請一些專家寫成大家共同來評論院長那再請教現在我們開放的這個疫情之後開放解禁然後剛剛開始觀光會進來了那很多人也會講是說哇來到台灣故宮一定是一個指標的一個展演之一那現在2024年我們參觀的目標人數定到多少人次"},{"start":3079.6,"end":3080.584,"text":"而二臨委員"},{"start":3081.877,"end":3109.493,"text":"北院的話,去年的話我們原來希望可以衝破一百萬但去年的話是一百五十五萬就超過我們原來的預估那今年的話我們會以目標兩百五十萬就再增加一百萬為目標那增加一百萬兩百五十萬為目標對但是我們全盛時期故宮一年可以到多少的觀光人士全盛時期的話故宮當然最高最高的一年的話有到五百多萬"},{"start":3110.894,"end":3129.487,"text":"2015年529萬好那今年疫情之前的話是380萬左右是來本席請教今年有沒有看到說交通部我們觀光的人數要衝多少要衝1200萬去年是600然後現在是1200對1200萬嘛對那我們來比較2015年最高的時候故宮可以有529萬對"},{"start":3138.61,"end":3142.421,"text":"2015年那個時候的觀光人次也不過就是一千萬出頭"},{"start":3143.368,"end":3167.84,"text":"今年既然觀光局也已經喊了交通部也是說要1200萬人次而大家也認為是說國外的旅客來到台灣其實也很希望說能夠來參觀故宮那故宮是不是應該要更有自信更有雄心壯志既然整個中央觀光局交通部都已經喊出1200萬的觀光人次的話那故宮少說也要收一半的觀光人次吧"},{"start":3169.16,"end":3186.334,"text":"有沒有這樣的雄心壯志?根委員報告業我們當然很期待可是那個入境的人數的話沒有辦法直接轉成那個參觀故宮的人數是沒有錯所以說這才是比例推估的問題院長本席要跟你講的是2015年你講說500多萬人次本國級占多少?"},{"start":3190.39,"end":3212.283,"text":"本國籍的話過去的比例的話本國籍的話我現在手上沒有資料沒關係本席直接跟你說我不是要用這個問題考導你我知道大概兩到三成左右來院長本席要告訴你的是委員在這邊質詢都有做功課而且都準備了相關資料比你們備詢都還要準備得完整2015年本國籍是100萬人次"},{"start":3215.385,"end":3235.861,"text":"外國籍人數有高達420萬人次所以加起來529萬而歷年10年下來我們本國籍的人次都差不多最高是100萬上下換言之故宮在2015年能夠衝到529萬有400多萬都是外國觀光客所以一樣的道理嘛你今年喊出了250萬的人次"},{"start":3237.742,"end":3267.008,"text":"本席也認為是說你250萬的話你本國籍你要再怎麼推因為他就有一個天花板所以也差不多是100萬人次但是你的外國觀光客怎麼樣可以成長到一倍150萬而更重要的是今天如果說交通部觀光局都已經喊出了今年要喊1200萬人次要進來的話你150萬只有占十分之一耶換言之你故宮已經自我去打折了認為是說1200萬的觀光人次來到台灣只有十分之一的人會來看故宮"},{"start":3268.51,"end":3292.693,"text":"那不就是跟我們以前的想像是有落差嗎以前大家會認為是說故宮是台灣的寶我們中華民國的寶各地觀光客來都來看故宮因為故宮是一個很重要的景點之一就如同我們去英國大英博物館我們去法國羅浮宮這個是重要的參考指標觀光指標但我們現在已經自我限縮了所以本席時間到了只是想要提醒院長"},{"start":3294.215,"end":3320.675,"text":"這些都是數字這些數據都是各部會應該要互相整合院長要做出來啦不是說只是每一個人都會講我們認真努力但重點是有沒有做那本席今天第一次質詢我們之前也都有其他業務都有互相的接觸過我了解你也是要做事的人"},{"start":3321.155,"end":3336.141,"text":"但最重要是我點出這個數字只是要告訴您說希望用數字管理希望用目標管理希望您以身作則帶領我們故宮所有的這一些一級主管同仁大家好好努力可以嗎好謝謝委員的勉勵好謝謝洪孟楷委員接下來我們請柯臻委員質詢"},{"start":3352.895,"end":3356.978,"text":"好 我們謝謝主席 我們請院長好 我們請蕭院長來 照一照是 院長你曾經在告訴大家說你的這個專業的生涯當中有兩樣事情就是藝術行政跟博物館的專業這是你畢生想做到的那請問你你覺得你目前為止真的有把南北院都做到這樣一個層次嗎"},{"start":3381.539,"end":3400.698,"text":"還在努力之中還在努力當中所以我們有很多東西我們可以好好來做一個檢討那我想身為一個我們就誠如大家所提到的故宮是我們國家之寶一個世界級的博物館它的管理當然是非常的重要當然很多事情都是在你上任之前所做的但是我們還是要瀏覽一下"},{"start":3402.119,"end":3422.314,"text":"我覺得像是過去來說陸續發生的明清這個文物的渾水這個回水呢還要爆出3萬張高階圖檔外流這些都是我們一筆一筆我們公堂所保存下來的然後結果外洩到這個淘寶來做個販售而且重要的是這是民眾來檢舉所以我請問故宮有揪出內鬼嗎目前為止進到什麼程度"},{"start":3427.907,"end":3443.934,"text":"好,如果第一個的話就是有關那個瓷器受損的部分的話我們已經完成修復然後也完成調查報告完成懲處那調查報告的話也分送監察院跟那個行政院"},{"start":3446.67,"end":3468.466,"text":"院長我只是要說你有沒有辦法在這地方跟大家承諾故宮的行政管理資安特別是文物的安全你有辦法向大家來做出承諾未來不會發生因為我要提醒剛剛我所說的事情你們應該是在一小時之內就要做通報你們是違反資安資通的安全的管理辦法你們是9個月之後呢才向數位部來做這樣的一個報告"},{"start":3470.051,"end":3490.149,"text":"所以跟委員報告一下因為所謂的土黨外流的部分是媒體一下報導說有10萬張的土黨外流那這個土黨外流的話我們去檢視的話的確就是那個同仁的話他是為了作為方便把土黨放到外部的區域不是在他內部內網的公園"},{"start":3491.09,"end":3491.55,"text":"目前有達到懲處嗎?目前沒有懲處"},{"start":3521.488,"end":3540.993,"text":"這個同仁基本上來講的話我們也送人憑好如果有確實質詢你就把公文拿給我來看一下好不好公文來拿給我看一下沒有問題然後呢很多的這個狀況裡面我們還是要看我想美醜這個部分每個人都各自有這樣子一個論斷身為民意代表我們對於一些經費還是要提出我們自己的看法南越"},{"start":3541.613,"end":3571.613,"text":"總設計師"},{"start":3573.559,"end":3573.579,"text":"專業評估"},{"start":3578.238,"end":3591.482,"text":"這個部分的話基本上來講的話他所有的程序都是依照採購法公共院長你都會用這個方式另外的話就是說這個計畫的話是在新故宮計畫裡面新故宮我等一下會好好跟你討論新故宮到底是不是華而不實我馬上就可以討論到這一塊我們只是說目前來說的話你們說這個東西可以管中虧月在這個地方我去過"},{"start":3602.526,"end":3629.182,"text":"的確夜晚很漂亮但是你不要忘記了南院晚上也不開幕好不好我今天所要強調的一點就是我們現在目前南院狂打所謂的公共藝術而且呢把這個公共藝術當作是常設的一個展如果你是這樣子的話你反而把你自己南院過去的常設像是玉器展還有嘉義文史中的廳把它撤除而且嘉義文史廳你現在把它變成一個小小的媒體是玉器根本就已經撤除掉了而且我還要問一下"},{"start":3630.123,"end":3648.014,"text":"你們目前的策展人員過去故宮很引以為豪是你們是非常的專業的那我想本來是只有典藏科的研究員才有辦法當成策展員可是南院對不起你的教展科的人也可以辦所以才會上次發生上次泰國展沒有什麼時事東西可以看的而且你們還甚至修改內規讓應該要有研究員身份的人現在來擔任行政高員院長這些事情你都有來做一些的討論跟瞭解嗎"},{"start":3658.43,"end":3681.42,"text":"我想這個部分的話,我舉我在台北館的例子,任何一個主事都要策展。教育推廣組策教育推廣展,典藏組策典藏展。基本上來講的話,只要你是研究職人員的話,基本上來講的話,都有策展的一個領域。專業是你們最重要,今天我們所討論的專業還是還有把你的"},{"start":3683.201,"end":3685.204,"text":"為什麼沒有所謂的研究員背景的人可以擔任你們南院的副處長?"},{"start":3698.84,"end":3699.461,"text":"南苑的兩棵松素聽說要花費相當進口車的價錢"},{"start":3717.177,"end":3732.052,"text":"我只是告訴大家就是說你們過去南院在種植任何的這個植栽的時候都是要符合本土的這樣的一個氣候我只是認為說南院應該投資的都是在你們展覽跟教育如果你今天是一個一個所謂的藝術中心"},{"start":3733.954,"end":3748.301,"text":"就算了但是你像南越是個故宮南越還有他的一個基本的精神存在所以呢不管是我剛所提出來部分裡面還有過去呢你還有還有辦了非常多的活動包括在外面給孩子玩殺等等"},{"start":3749.181,"end":3749.201,"text":"院長："},{"start":3765.758,"end":3780.735,"text":"因為故宮園區的福原廣大除了鎮館之外的話,戶外園區的話當然會有一些景觀那景觀的話當初的規劃他的這些植栽的價錢的話基本上來講也都是當時評估經過一個程序去完成的"},{"start":3781.015,"end":3785.54,"text":"院長我只是強調你身為要以博物館的專業所以說我們強調南院的本館的主體性外面的那些部分如果你把它定位在一般的休閒或是一般的"},{"start":3798.012,"end":3798.032,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":3818.84,"end":3846.174,"text":"我想請問部長1月3日及2月3日兩天有說明會很多人就認為在這個說明會當中很多問題還是沒有釐清過去呢我在第9屆的時候呢我也提出這些的計劃裡面當中有很多不當之處如果你今天是修復漏水等等一些主管裡面的一些修復我沒有意見但是你現在牽涉到我想院長應該看得很清楚那時候大家所看到的就是故宮沒有所謂的入口意向的"},{"start":3846.834,"end":3871.596,"text":"議員．"},{"start":3871.616,"end":3872.757,"text":"國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌"},{"start":3897.819,"end":3905.324,"text":"你認為做一個玻璃的這樣一個大的建築就會讓他的意向的所謂的入口更清晰更明顯嗎這是你所認為的嗎基本上來講他沒有遮蔽主體嗎而且他還具有所謂的你們的建築師還說具有他的可逆性的原則這個是有對"},{"start":3925.498,"end":3940.929,"text":"建築設計是一個實證的科學所以故宮當初的話從第一棟方塊形然後變長方形變摸字形然後總共經過了5次的改建所以裡面的故宮動線大家會認為說故宮的動線很清楚嗎?"},{"start":3945.029,"end":3945.729,"text":"根文報告根文報告"},{"start":3963.499,"end":3986.997,"text":"跟委員報告基本上來講故宮依照文資法的程序然後把他的設計方案送到臺北市文資審議會審議我們會尊重審議的結果因為好部長院長我最後只問了一個這是在你前任院長裡面所設定下來的這是在吳院長所定下來的我最後只問你一個你真的願意為這些整建的計畫來做"},{"start":3988.018,"end":3989.638,"text":"臺北市文資審議委員會審議通過之後我們才會去進行"},{"start":4015.265,"end":4019.048,"text":"但是故宮裏面的動線基本上的確要重整因為當初規劃故宮的時候從來都沒有想到說那個舒嬅完整呈現她只是想說"},{"start":4038.643,"end":4039.103,"text":"接下來我們請萬美玲委員"},{"start":4068.533,"end":4070.934,"text":"謝謝趙偉,我們有請院長院長好,院長好我想院長知道本席是中華民國與捷克國會聯誼會的會長所以一直以來都很關心我們兩國之間各方面的交流跟進展我記得其實好像是在111年9月的時候"},{"start":4093.988,"end":4116.598,"text":"傑克的國家博物館館長盧克斯有來到台灣也跟台灣簽署了很多項備忘錄其中有一項就包括故宮要跟傑克的博物館姊妹館的協議書當中有一個非常重要的算案活動就是要把故宮的收藏品拿到傑克去展出"},{"start":4117.498,"end":4146.371,"text":"那當時我記得那個時間點應該本來講的是今年對不對那後來現在我看起來故宮現在給我的這個期程是明年那明年我們如果是確定現在是要演到明年第一個為什麼演第二個呢明年的9月我們就要赴捷克來做一個國際的一個出展一個借展那也預計是有百件以上的展品要來出國展覽其中非常重要的就是我們的國寶翠玉白菜跟清明上河圖"},{"start":4147.031,"end":4174.217,"text":"好像都有規劃要到捷克來出展那這個部分的話院長能不能回答一下的確就是因為疫情的關係所以故宮原來規劃的有一些國際交流活動的話都是因為這個原因而辭返那捷克的話當然在之前的話有簽過合作備忘錄但是正式的展覽內容的話都還在洽談之中"},{"start":4176.437,"end":4177.357,"text":"院長,我們這麼重要的文物、國寶要出訪"},{"start":4196.224,"end":4215.291,"text":"當然您剛所說的司法免扣押的這個事情非常的重要那據本期瞭解在捷克司法免扣押修法案在今年的2月8號那已經在眾議院一讀了那這個眾議院通過之後那現在要送參議院來審議那大家這個會多久的時間因為是屬於捷克內部我們"},{"start":4216.992,"end":4235.168,"text":"但是我想既然我們要出訪我們也要有準備嘛所以這個進度非常的重要因為如果司法免扣壓這個修法有一些這個狀況或者沒有過那當然我們不能輕易出去所以您有沒有掌握那這個修法的進度能夠趕得及明年的9月我們要出訪前能夠通過嗎"},{"start":4236.79,"end":4262.69,"text":"這個進度的話我們一直透過外交部跟那個駐捷克代表處密切在關注之中基本上來講的話捷克國家博物館他們的表達是非常樂觀的但故宮作為一個展覽的一個策展的團隊我一直告訴我們一副院長他是這個總策展人就是說我們把所有的事情都準備到可以上會機"},{"start":4269.073,"end":4285.501,"text":"院長我想世界各國對於故宮的這個收藏真的都是非常的讚許可以說我們的收藏舉世聞名那有機會到世界各國去做這樣的交流讓全世界的人更多人看到我們的收藏我想這是一件非常好的事情"},{"start":4286.542,"end":4297.937,"text":"我們除了明年的捷克現在在等司法免扣押修法之後我們就都準備好了這很棒那近期我們還沒有這個規劃我們的國寶要到其他的國家去這個展覽"},{"start":4299.912,"end":4322.223,"text":"跟委員報告因為委員問了要不然的話就是對外交流的展覽基本上來講的話我們沒有到那個出發之前的話我們就不會對外去說明那的確我們跟法國的凱利朗利博物館的話也是一樣明年的秋季也有一個展覽在洽談之中"},{"start":4323.584,"end":4346.424,"text":"基本上來講的話我們的運作也都是包括雙方的人員的互訪然後去討論合約的內容跟展品顯件這基本上來講的話都已經到了一個階段了可是因為現在還沒有因為我們程序上的話最後的定版要報給文化部文資及審議然後"},{"start":4348.306,"end":4368.107,"text":"獲得委員會同意後才能確定,所以這個程序的話還在進行之中。好,院長,我想這是非常好,如果明年我們捷克、法國都能夠順利的來出展,那我想其實這對兩國都很好,對於我們故宮收藏讓全世界更多人看見,這都是很棒的一件事情。不過其實本期在這裡要提醒,我想"},{"start":4368.627,"end":4390.684,"text":"不論是我們的國寶翠玉白菜或者清明上河圖都是非常重要的國寶那據本席了解其實故宮的文物到各國展覽最近的一次應該是在2019其實有一點時間了差不多5年多有了那明年我們要到海外去展覽那準備工作您剛剛說隨時都可以上飛機了但是我想不是那麼簡單就是東西上了就好了"},{"start":4391.164,"end":4398.426,"text":"前置作業其實蠻多的我記得在108年1月故宮國寶有一個顏真卿記職文稿等等的一些古物那時候我們到東京日本東京的國立博物館來借展那事後其實被監委發現這個古物狀況的一個檢驗並沒有依照借展合約書相關的規範來執行那造成保管借展國寶這個古物的責任不明而產生很多的糾紛那這樣的狀況"},{"start":4420.632,"end":4443.402,"text":"我想在當時可能故宮也會覺得我們準備好了但準備好絕對不是文物上飛機包好就好那關於這樣的一個事情有沒有可能再發生我們有做任何的防範嗎跟委員報告一下嚴貞卿的記者文稿的話就是他出國的話是有一些不同的觀點但是絕對沒有所謂的爭議因為他是經過文資審議通過文資委員認為說那個物件的狀況"},{"start":4447.924,"end":4447.944,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":4467.847,"end":4489.62,"text":"院長本席其實認為我們要更多的觀光客更多我們的國人來故宮看我們的國寶跟文物這是非常重要的但是本席個人認為能夠出訪讓世界各國做這樣的一個博物館之間交流對故宮來講是正向的但是我們要保護我們的國寶跟我們重要的文物這個先前準備的工作絕對不能輕忽所以這一點要請院長跟團隊多注重"},{"start":4491.741,"end":4505.641,"text":"跟委員報告一下,絕對不是說上飛機就走,而是說我們選舉的會議都要處理。沒關係,院長,我想本時這個就是在這裡跟您做一個戰役提醒,不能有任何的疏忽嘛。那要不你們以前也沒有認為故宮會打破文物啊,但它就打破啦,是不是?"},{"start":4507.583,"end":4509.727,"text":"我們有做了一個明確的調查 那我們也做了很多內部的一個改善措施"},{"start":4522.967,"end":4544.383,"text":"院長我想順著剛才我講的這個就是之前故宮打破這個典藏文物的這個事件我相信大家都不願意不過在那個事件之後我們也發現報出故宮收藏了70萬件的一個文物而大多數都沒有完成文資指定的審議那故宮在94年的時候做戰型的分級4903件這個國寶跟35858件的重要古物那只有在那時候做這樣的分級不過"},{"start":4551.749,"end":4581.749,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":4581.849,"end":4584.53,"text":"委員長,我想要問您的是到底是故宮送件的速度太慢還是數量太少還是文資局審議的速度自己太慢有延宕或者人力太少"},{"start":4606.4,"end":4617.957,"text":"能不能給我們一個原因跟委員報告表列上的話就是9494年暫定國寶就是49000件然後完成指定的話就48205件以比例來講的話他已經完成98%"},{"start":4622.964,"end":4643.315,"text":"重要鼓舞的話是35858然後那個現在完成的話是47%那基本上來講的話故宮是以先國寶先審定為主然後直觸下來因為國寶如果沒有通過國寶的話他就會往下掉然後重新報一次審重要鼓舞"},{"start":4643.835,"end":4672.16,"text":"那之後的話因為一般的古物的話是地方政府所以一定是先處理國寶然後再處理重要古物然後再一般古物的情況這樣子好其實院長因為您也從文化部來那我想不論是故宮這邊在送審或者是文化部那裡的速度我想您都可以做一個這個很好的這個調和這個時間那應該要去催促的趕快催促我們希望讓國寶跟重要文物都可以盡快審議完畢"},{"start":4674.04,"end":4676.342,"text":"最後一點因為時間的關係我只做重點提醒我們的新故宮計劃當中有關於故宮北院的整建計劃還有圖書文獻大樓的整建計劃不過這個整建計劃看起來我們的工程速度是有往後延宕"},{"start":4689.975,"end":4710.768,"text":"那沒有辦法如期去完成那這會有一個問題要提醒您現在很多的公共工程都因為種種原因去延宕了延宕以後我們的預算就必須要增加了所以呢您要做兩個準備第一個把工程的期限能不能如期把它趕上來第二個萬一真的要延宕您的預算在哪裡可能要把它找出來但最重要的是趕快把工程期趕上那這兩點因為時間關係我沒有辦法贅述那我相信院長也明白所以我們趕快把這工程期去趕上來好不好"},{"start":4717.432,"end":4721.234,"text":"好謝謝委員提醒文化會加緊努力好謝謝好我們謝謝萬委員謝謝院長接下來我們請羅廷維委員好謝謝主席有請蕭院長好院長"},{"start":4746.18,"end":4768.496,"text":"院長早 院長我想說跟你討論一下那個主改的問題故宮現在為二級機關跟教育部文化部都同屬一個部會等級他是國家組織層級當中我想這是最高的一個博物館那想近幾年還有人在討論這個部會他們有沒有要討論這個主改的問題我想故宮主改的議題院長你怎麼看"},{"start":4770.58,"end":4791.901,"text":"基本上來講主改的話是行政院的整個對組織編制對整個國立的一個規劃那主改的部分的話基本上來講我過去也曾經講過就是說我在文化部裡面也沒有聽說那個故宮要把它放進到文化部的"},{"start":4792.321,"end":4793.282,"text":"院長,你覺得故宮未來的定位是什麼?"},{"start":4812.236,"end":4828.069,"text":"故宮未來的定位基本上來講作為一個行政組織的架構似乎是有待商榷的因為全世界博物館的話都不見得是一個政府的行政組織的概念而是一個文化機構的專業組織"},{"start":4829.77,"end":4830.871,"text":"我想請問一下新聞媒體有報導過有人在討論說要改名稱華夏博物館博物院對不起那你覺得你認同嗎"},{"start":4852.784,"end":4873.556,"text":"基本上來講我講他有一個菸鹽脈絡驟然改名的話要有更多的社會共識那我想前故宮的院長吳院長曾經說過故宮的人事制度上有一個弱點那就是沒有任期制我想在這一點會跟著政黨輪替的變化那我想你認為應該要有任期制嗎院長"},{"start":4877.839,"end":4891.038,"text":"這個部分的話它跟其他的那個政府主治或是機構不一樣因為它如果是它是一個行政法人或是一個董事會的機制當然有所謂的任期制可是以全世界來講的話"},{"start":4892.961,"end":4893.501,"text":"你支持草法人化經營嗎?"},{"start":4916.55,"end":4932.698,"text":"這個部分的話我想我剛講過就是要有更多的社會共識社會共識好謝謝你這一部分的一個詢問來做一個表態那我想不知道院長知不知道我們故宮曾經擠身全球百大前史成為最多人參觀的博物館展覽2015年4月13日媒體報導根據是英國的藝術報"},{"start":4937.361,"end":4966.033,"text":"他的統計2014年全球最多人參觀的博物館展覽當中台北故宮博物院我們就是有報辦前三名當時觀光人數來到540多萬我們都知道故宮在這前兩年疫情的一個摧殘當中觀光人數真的是慘不忍睹包括我所看到官網統計的數字是北院155萬左右那南院是95萬左右總共大約250萬人次這部分你有掌握嗎"},{"start":4968.3,"end":4997.54,"text":"這部分的話就是一直是我們積極努力的目標那我想為什麼他當時能夠來到540萬我們評估故宮有一半的訪客是入客只有三分之一的人潮是當地的旅客那當時2015年這個精算的話入客沒有到百分之沒有到一半好沒關係那這就是我們各自的一個分析啦但沒關係我尊重你的一個分享但當時我想就我們所知道"},{"start":4998.26,"end":5022.135,"text":"沒有故宮南院南院也是2015年的12月左右才成立的現在兩院加起來250多萬一部分受到疫情的影響當然我們不能夠去怪罪博物館這邊但是一部分受到兩岸關係的惡化我想目前我們疫情後逐漸復甦但是我們兩岸關係觀光旅客已經確定人數不負往日的風光"},{"start":5022.975,"end":5037.1,"text":"我想現在入客進不來我們只能夠期待其他的國家那我想例如韓國日本其他東南亞的國家參訪重觀故宮去年的參觀人數北院院區參觀人數155萬其中國際旅客與韓國36.6%最多日本我記得是27.5G次"},{"start":5045.643,"end":5059.593,"text":"我想昨天網路上流傳一個圖片我想跟你分享一下不知道院長有沒有看過這張圖是左手邊左手邊那我們把它改成了右手邊這樣子我想同理可證我們看到"},{"start":5061.614,"end":5090.098,"text":"國內旅遊真的蠻貴的所以大家都往國外跑反而去日本旅遊好像比較便宜這個問題同樣也反映在故宮的身上這是我們看到日本遊客我們以前很多但在疫情以後情況似乎有些轉變日本遊客不一定這麼愛來台灣也因此我想詢問一下院長目前入客無法前來的情況之下故宮有沒有什麼新的措施吸引更多外國國外的一個觀光旅客來回流"},{"start":5091.805,"end":5108.647,"text":"跟委員報告就是委員資料上也顯示就是說去年故宮參訪的有可以韓國居多那當然就是說剛好也是一個那樣的一個機緣所以故宮博物院增加我們官網的韓語的網站然後另外出版韓語的導覽手冊"},{"start":5110.349,"end":5130.195,"text":"當然此外的話就是故宮南院剛好辦理了朝鮮與清宮的文化特展所以這多多少少都對那個韓國的旅客增加有幫助我想更加友善是我們現在做的但是我們緊接而來有沒有更具體的作為可以把這個國際觀光客再引來我們台灣呢"},{"start":5131.226,"end":5150.067,"text":"因為整個國際疫情的影響,所以觀眾在從事文化交流的次序的話,基本上來講的話稍微緩慢一點。以入境的旅客來講的話,觀光局入境旅客的話,商務跟旅業,旅業的話就是比如說外籍移工,他們的數字比較多。"},{"start":5152.891,"end":5163.847,"text":"在疫情之後都是用一種很快速短程的所以基本上旅遊的部分開放的比較晚所以去年的話我們是跟觀光局合作推出郵輪的專案今年會繼續辦理"},{"start":5165.97,"end":5167.192,"text":"我想本期還是要提醒行政院在107年1月24的新聞稿有提到"},{"start":5184.735,"end":5194.307,"text":"113年新故宮的計畫建設完成後預期創造南北院的參觀人數達800萬那我想門票與文創收入分別成長3.8億及5.6億國際及國內參觀的消費者產生"},{"start":5200.374,"end":5224.599,"text":"會有1.347億元現在的觀光人數我們看到是250萬那800萬怎麼達成當然疫情我們真的都不能夠去怪罪那未來這800萬我們要怎麼去達到這個目標我希望我可以看到有更具體的作為可以會後跟我們討論那第二個我想跟你請教一下如果如何推廣故宮的一個文物在故宮的業務報告第三頁我們有看到"},{"start":5226.16,"end":5244.375,"text":"關網提供展覽主題的網站服務及豐富的線上資源我想就我們看到故宮的YouTube7.15萬人的一個訂閱但裡面所拍攝的文物介紹觀看人數不到400觀看人數這麼少院長你會不會覺得拍攝的人都覺得很心寒"},{"start":5247.841,"end":5266.457,"text":"基本上來講的話社群媒體的話它的流量的話就是要看什麼時候所以我想這個社群媒體的經營有一個比較特殊的議題的話流量就馬上衝高比如說我一個小女生在DECA上面講說那個什麼故宮的那個不能用文化幣然後那天的話我們的流量的話就飆得特別高"},{"start":5268.239,"end":5290.495,"text":"我想故宮在文物介紹推廣我想還是要實際的一個加強當然不是只是花錢買廣告怎麼讓它更有流量更多人點閱我想這是要會後來探討的那我想關切有關2002年的文物損壞的一個問題共有三件典藏的瓷器破損目前的修復狀況如何"},{"start":5292.038,"end":5316.311,"text":"都已經完全修復了然後也做了公開展示根據省紀部的一個查核顯示近10年故宮院長已經抽點了15000餘件文物此修復文件文物約有437件待修復那我想為實際修復的數量只有79件不及兩成比例稍有落差這部分你要怎麼加強"},{"start":5317.752,"end":5317.972,"text":"現在待修復437"},{"start":5338.264,"end":5357.102,"text":"對抽點的情況基本上來講抽點有發現他有變異的時候我們也會要求修復但是如果有一些文物他沒有要應用沒有要展覽所以並不急著修復的時候有時候我們會維持他的一個穩定的狀態"},{"start":5358.243,"end":5377.791,"text":"那我想國人都非常關心文物損壞的一個修復情形尤其是最好不要再有任何的損壞我們也會持續關注這樣的議題但目前我所要強調的是待修復的文件你們已經列出437件我們看到實際修復只有79件不到兩成我想國人也非常關心未來修復的情形能夠再加強"},{"start":5378.471,"end":5379.052,"text":"接下來我們就請葉元智委員"},{"start":5411.539,"end":5435.932,"text":"不好意思請院長好院長院長好根據您的報告裡面有提到就是說我們在故宮的語音導演應該是蠻重要的對不對是語音導演部分應該是蠻重要的因為我看你的報告專業服務的部分有分三項其中除了空間的友善之外第二個重要就是語音的服務了"},{"start":5436.492,"end":5448.724,"text":"語音導覽的話我們有兩種一種的話就是那個現場的志工的那個導覽解說另外的話就是雅凱的一個系統那故宮自己有一個語音導覽系統"},{"start":5450.493,"end":5479.312,"text":"好,我們辦公室有去看資料就是您剛剛講的雅凱系統實際上它包括北院跟南院加起來大概我們給他的預算是經濟總共大概是一千八百多萬嘛對吧總共是一千八百多萬嘛現在都是這個廠商在做嘛沒錯齁但是您剛剛有提到就是說這個語音導覽的人員非常重要可是我們在這個雅凱他在真人的"},{"start":5480.393,"end":5483.994,"text":"跟委員報告因為已經導覽基本上來講的話是系統的建置是後台"},{"start":5499.998,"end":5522.694,"text":"所以他的前台服務人員的話就是說登記然後發那個耳機跟那個播音器而已所以這個部分的話基本上來講的話因為屬於委外單位的我們當然會經過委員的提醒我們會去關心他的一個薪資待遇的狀況所以你說他們這個是負責幫人家在前台掛耳機"},{"start":5524.035,"end":5546.273,"text":"就是架子上面的耳機分配耳機然後登記這些東西那實際上的導覽人員呢實際上的導覽人員第一個如果是現人導覽的話是我們的導覽志工那耳機的部分的話就是這種機械系的導覽就是那個數位導覽的話基本上來講的話都是一個內建的系統"},{"start":5547.751,"end":5569.131,"text":"內建的系統我剛講就是說有一個是故宮自己的內建系統的話是屬於比較長色展的部分那牙改的部分的話它變動性比較高所以是都是事先錄好了然後帶了耳機然後按鍵它就會播放所以跟人眼的導覽不一樣它的人眼的那個要求不一樣"},{"start":5569.952,"end":5589.309,"text":"所以雅凱他做的主要是建制系統嗎建制系統的話是那個經費所以為什麼要有1800多萬基本上來講的話是因為他系統的建制他請人做翻譯做錄音做系統的建制要這個錢那另外的話那個工作人員基本上前台的話只是在做"},{"start":5590.009,"end":5591.15,"text":"我發現說使用的數目我不知道院長你滿意嗎?"},{"start":5610.468,"end":5629.31,"text":"現在112年當然112年那團體機的使用人數是6萬3各導機使用人數是3萬多這可能是受到疫情的影響人數下降所以當然使用這個機器的人數變少可能112年就是去年"},{"start":5630.657,"end":5658.715,"text":"他有回升然後在北院的部分112年團體機使用是36萬但各島機14萬那南院部分又更偏低了我們就講去年112年團島機是10萬人那各島機只有2萬多人那這樣的人數加起來大概是80幾萬我不知道院長你覺得滿不滿意基本上來講的話如果一個好的展覽在歐美地區的話他們的"},{"start":5660.117,"end":5661.258,"text":"國立故宮博物院議員"},{"start":5676.906,"end":5679.868,"text":"對於那個有特殊的需求的話我們當然就是一定還是要準備相當的服務"},{"start":5700.257,"end":5728.256,"text":"因為我們是覺得說東西要花錢去做當然現在院長的感覺是好像是以備不時之需就是說好像他有用到的話我們再給他最好是他不要用到但是實際上我們花團導的話我們會建議用團導機的原因就是說因為用團導機的話他的聲量可以控制他用一個麥克風他就可以讓每個人戴耳機聽到對那沒關係那我們就聚焦在團導機那不知道院長你滿意這個團導機的人數嗎"},{"start":5731.137,"end":5753.327,"text":"基本上來講這是積極於一個觀眾服務的需求如果觀眾服務有需求的話他們就會租用那要不然的話他們李先生帶來的話那個院長我知道你的態度了你的態度就是反正我這個東西算不錯團長其實我也鼓勵但是我們就被動的請他們來他們要用我們就提供嘛所以在人數上你並不會覺得說人數少就怎麼樣"},{"start":5754.467,"end":5776.942,"text":"沒有關係,院長我想問一下因為從這個使用導覽機的人數來看我不知道能不能反映遊客的人數像北院在112年它的使用人數有明顯的回升到36萬但南院就是團導機的部分實際上112年它和111年使用團導機的人數其實並沒有差很多從7萬8變成10萬2千這個是不是代表南院實際上沒有什麼團體課"},{"start":5781.765,"end":5804.954,"text":"不是這樣子,就是比例上來講的話藍燕的就是在地的本地的觀眾比較多,所以他們需要本地比較多,團體比較少團體也是本地的比較多,就故宮藍燕來講的話他的外籍旅客比較少所以外籍旅客比較需要用到這樣的一個導覽工具"},{"start":5806.363,"end":5834.485,"text":"那所以你沒有考慮說針對南院部分針對國際做宣傳嗎沒有南院的部分我們希望說主要都是服務在地客是不是沒有我們希望把北院的客人也可以拉南院所以現在北院的知名度基本上來講的話是相當那就代表說你目前還沒有達到你期望成效嘛因為你也希望說北部的團客可以下去嘛是對吧那院長你繼續加油好不好你繼續加油那下一個議題喔這個"},{"start":5836.346,"end":5850.694,"text":"去年陳建仁院長曾經在院會的時候證實過一件事情就是我們的土黨國保土黨曾經有被大量的駭客入侵過對不對總共被駭了大概10萬多件院長你記得這件事情嗎"},{"start":5851.994,"end":5871.85,"text":"這個害不是害的問題因為他們從來故宮網站都沒有被害禁忌過只是說我們把...被盜取啦好啦好啦被盜取啦因為這不是我講的重點被盜取啦盜取這個事情也不精切因為事實上我們同仁去海撈所有在網路上的包括淘寶包括那個什麼書"},{"start":5873.251,"end":5900.602,"text":"的網站裏面的真正故宮的所謂的高階圖堂資料的話大概不到兩...不到兩截好沒關係因為這個事情其他的話因為我時間快到了因為陳建仁院長在去年大家在院會他也證實有這件事情我所以你說不精確我不知道你是不是打臉陳建仁院長而且當時陳建仁院長也承諾說這個是已經沒有再外流了然後甚至於說會處理要求"},{"start":5901.102,"end":5922.385,"text":"在大陸如果說有淘寶或百度買得到的話會用請律師請他們下架所以理論上來講現在我們在百度跟淘寶應該是找不到可是昨天我助理他就隨便在淘寶又查到了就有關於大家可以看這個圖台北故宮博物院的觀賬圖裡面有3萬餘件故宮的高清圖素材"},{"start":5922.585,"end":5948.889,"text":"而且在去年2月份的時候剛好就被賣掉而且買家的評價很高阿他說這保證贈品阿可以放心他說這個畫質非常清晰然後我們為了要確保說這個東西到底是不是故宮的贈品所以我助理也特別去跟他對話對方講說保證贈品可以放心購買喔然後他說有圖可以看嗎這是高薪的那我想問院長當然你剛剛講說這不一定是真的但對方說是真的"},{"start":5949.349,"end":5966.283,"text":"但是第一個至少可以證實說至少是陳建成院長證實說去年是有的嘛那第二像這種在網路上在淘寶上面還是買得到這個東西你有沒有什麼反制措施然後你去年說會要求他們下架那請問你的具體作為是什麼"},{"start":5967.476,"end":5981.933,"text":"第一個院長說他知道這件事情但是知道這件事情是媒體報導但是土黨外流這個事情的話基本上來講的話這是一個烏龍事件所以沒有土黨外流沒有不是"},{"start":5982.654,"end":5996.004,"text":"國立故宮博物院院長我沒有時間了你不要請你這個問題回答其實我對你都很客氣啦有沒有土黨外流的事情有沒有沒有所以沒有對因為所以院長去年的時候說他知道這個事情而且會處理是院長搞烏龍你的意思是這樣沒關係謝謝你院長"},{"start":6002.148,"end":6024.848,"text":"第二件事情就是如果說沒有外流的話那現在因為淘寶買得到而且買家宣稱說是故宮贈品那這已經影響到故宮的名譽了嘛如果說對岸在賣這個東西然後大家買到高薪以為是故宮贈品那其實品質沒有那麼好那對故宮的聲譽也是有影響那我現在就問你說你是怎麼去處理這個事情我跟委員報告故宮"},{"start":6027.13,"end":6056.169,"text":"一百萬畫素跟六百萬畫素四十萬張都已經是open data出去了所以基本上來講淘寶他抓的就是故宮open data的這些資料那為什麼淘寶抓這個來賣因為大陸他有網路限制他沒有辦法抓所以他就他要抓故宮的網站進故宮的網站的話他要花很多力氣所以淘寶把他打包來賣為什麼建賣如果說真的有那麼重要那麼困難的話那他可以賣貴一點啊"},{"start":6057.47,"end":6069.039,"text":"他就是因為你任何一個人在做任何一個人上Google open data因為你講這個東西跟去年院長講已經不一樣而且當時你們的說法是說這個研究員也被懲處了那如果你調查結果說是一個烏龍事件那我不知道為什麼要懲處他啦而且第一時間你說我跟你講一般委員去年的委員在院會質詢院長的時候院長說知道這個事不會說知道媒體的報導啦"},{"start":6085.592,"end":6102.273,"text":"那如果說是院長都是透過媒體報導才知道行政院發生的事情那院長就你們這件都不用做了啦他直接看新聞就好了所以你今天的講法我覺得是非常的不尊重行政院長陳建仁那我不知道為什麼你會這樣子改口然後你現在你後來的改口你有沒有跟院長報告"},{"start":6103.294,"end":6112.89,"text":"這都是問題,然後結論就是如果你現在認為說其實那是一個烏龍事件但現在我們在淘寶就是買得到這已經影響到故宮聲譽請你做出捍衛故宮聲譽的行動這你有辦法嗎?"},{"start":6117.024,"end":6145.451,"text":"我們有透過一個法律程序我們找了一個什麼法律程序這就是我今天才查的嘛他還在賣嘛那你要你就是沒有做到嘛因為基本上來講的話我們也有花粉沒關係院長因為我時間到了啦這是第一次我質詢你啦可以感覺到好像你對於故宮的國寶的捍衛並沒有決心你對於故宮的名譽的捍衛也沒有決心而且我剛剛問你旅客部分你說對啊我就是要增加團客啊那就是沒辦法啊這個語音建制就是我們建制好了啊"},{"start":6145.691,"end":6150.533,"text":"我不能包牌說你買票的時候沿導覽你要順便買因為這個沒有辦法因為這個是一個商業機制他有需求的話他就沒有辦法對不起喔時間到了沒有那個他還可以繼續講喔召委可以這樣子喔"},{"start":6172.541,"end":6175.904,"text":"院長請尊重我們這個答詢的一個規則當委員已經結束他的發言然後離開的時候也請院長尊重這樣子的一個議事規則謝謝院長我就跟國國博物院院長這種院長都還要來跟委員吵架現在民進黨的行政官員是怎樣啦"},{"start":6198.563,"end":6211.833,"text":"主席我都跟你鞠躬我要下去了然後他還要說我不能保證是不是所以院長請尊重我們這個教文裡面我們這個答詢上面的規則謝謝謝謝好謝謝葉委員謝謝院長好我們接下來我們請陳秀寶陳委員謝謝主席請院長好院長"},{"start":6229.414,"end":6249.645,"text":"院長早安院長首先我先請教我在報道上有看到說我們故宮有規劃在5月的時候會在南院展出針、喉椅、邊中那針對這個部分我想請教一下這個邊中的展示展出它是屬於文物嗎?"},{"start":6253.028,"end":6274.626,"text":"他是一個複製的文物那以故宮你們專業的來看待這樣子的展出他是一個他是複製的文物那他會進展廳來做展覽嗎他在不進展廳他在那個公共的服務區在售票區的前面的一個端角"},{"start":6275.751,"end":6277.534,"text":"在不是在展廳裡面對在二樓的大廳那這個我有聽說這個編宗他是可以實際的來演奏的嗎"},{"start":6287.815,"end":6308.984,"text":"基本上來講的話他雖然是一個複製的文物可是是一個高仿的複製文物所謂高仿的複製文物的話不只是形製編製仿真他連他的聲音他的音力都是一個一個對比出來的所以基本上來講的話他是被認為現在仿製的一個"},{"start":6310.144,"end":6334.105,"text":"院長請教我們這個這個紡織的這個這個邊中他在展出這個期間有有沒有規劃會演出有他固定的話他會有兩場就是說每年會有兩場演出那期間的話他還要不定期的來做檢視所謂不定期來做檢視的話跟"},{"start":6339.209,"end":6352.918,"text":"院長我這邊再請教您關於這一組編宗我再一次請教您它跟你們故宮自己所保管的所展展覽的文物差別在哪裡"},{"start":6354.52,"end":6355.04,"text":"院長,我這邊的..."},{"start":6379.341,"end":6398.263,"text":"院長我在這邊我的問題我再重複我想了解說對於這一組你們會不是你們的但是來你們這邊展出的邊中跟你們自己本身故宮你們的會展覽的文物它的差別"},{"start":6399.264,"end":6421.853,"text":"它不是文物它是仿製的文物那而且它是可以用來實際演奏的那它放在它不是進展廳它是放在你們二樓的大廳的一個通道那我是不是可以解讀為它是一個非文物的一個展示但是可以算是一個實際上可以演奏的一個裝飾甚至是一個藝術品呢"},{"start":6423.894,"end":6451.028,"text":"因為當初跟那個傳譯中心在談的他就是一個教育展示的推廣活動教育展示的推廣根據傳譯中心的話他們其實要推廣的是音樂所以這一套基本上來講的話是作為樂器好了 院長那我懂得您的意思就是說他並不是你們故宮本身自己的文物的展覽他是一個在傳譯中心他們所要推的一個"},{"start":6452.469,"end":6476.58,"text":"演奏的一個因為它傳統音樂中心它就是會探討到不同國家族群然後甚至說中國大陸﹖所以這一次的展出這個編中的展出並不是你們故宮本身去展覽一個房品它是跟傳藝中心一個合作合作的是一個展示一個可以實際演出的一個"},{"start":6478.035,"end":6479.957,"text":"這並不是故宮本身展覽的一個紡織的文物"},{"start":6495.675,"end":6503.781,"text":"來再來院長這邊我要請教您過去在香港故宮成立的時候香港故宮這邊有曾經放話說要跟我國的故宮來合作展出但當時本席也詢問當時時任院長的五院長當時故宮的意思是說完全沒有接受到這樣子的訊息"},{"start":6515.29,"end":6535.006,"text":"但是中國對於我國故宮的想法跟打算其實好像都從來沒有停歇目前中國好像兩會召開在兩會召開前有中國政協提出說要加強中國故宮與我國故宮的合作以促使加深交流等等那我這邊想請教院長"},{"start":6537.308,"end":6551.682,"text":"這位中國的政協還強調說兩岸的故宮博物院原來是一家那一院兩地是因為歷史的緣故那院長這樣子的講法您身為我國故宮的院長您有什麼看法跟態度"},{"start":6553.263,"end":6564.453,"text":"我想歷史它的脈絡基本上來講的話我這邊就不再去談論但是要跟那個兩岸故宮合作的話基本上來講的話我們會審慎來考量"},{"start":6569.278,"end":6583.429,"text":"因為牽涉到的問題非常多因為故宮基本上來講的話作為一個國家的博物館那我們還是要依照政府的兩岸關係條例相關的內涵來進行一個交流合作"},{"start":6583.909,"end":6601.525,"text":"委員長本席在這邊要強調其實近年來中國對我國的文化的統戰一直都沒有停歇那即便中國利用各種的不同的管道或程序要來跟我國的故宮來接洽本席希望說故宮必須要堅守你們該有的態度跟底線這個必須要堅守你同意嗎"},{"start":6604.651,"end":6611.237,"text":"為什麼我會先強調中國的態度?因為本席接下來要請教三個會期教育委員會這邊有質詢故宮關於中國盜用故宮土黨的問題那當時故宮有提出訴訟不會姑息那這個部分請問進展如何?"},{"start":6621.038,"end":6632.694,"text":"基本上今年2月我們已經委託律師然後透過一個資料的彙整然後把資料送到大陸地區的地方法院由他們來處理"},{"start":6633.985,"end":6634.946,"text":"故宮去年11月的時候有辦理一個博物館開放授權與AI"},{"start":6652.461,"end":6652.681,"text":"獲得獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":6676.596,"end":6677.538,"text":"會不會採納會不會是我們故宮未來的選項之一"},{"start":6690.575,"end":6691.575,"text":"院長您這邊的疑慮同時也是我們這邊所擔憂的"},{"start":6718.063,"end":6733.171,"text":"我先也要提醒啦,針對中國他蓄意的惡意的這個作為我們沒有辦法阻止但是如果有考量說要委託其他機構的話也必須要考量說中國的部分他們比較特殊的這個政治跟法律的因素必須要考慮評估"},{"start":6733.951,"end":6763.951,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":6765.051,"end":6792.624,"text":"我想司法委員扣押的話是一個行政院的政策就是我們還依照這個政策來進行就對於雙方的文化交流的話我們要確保故宮的文物出國緩緩無遺的狀況之下我們才會進行所以現在捷克的司法委員扣押基本上來講的話他們眾議院已經通過現在送到參議院我們會希望說等待他的一個順利通過然後讓"},{"start":6794.405,"end":6799.869,"text":"兩國的一個展出可以順利的來進行好 謝謝院長本席這邊以上提醒我們要加深國際間我們這些民主盟友跟我們國際的關係我也熱見說可以故宮是成為實踐的第一步那故宮的這些收藏品在國際間是享譽盛名所以未來如果有更多的機會可以有跟其他國家合作也希望我們故宮可以更積極的規劃最後在這邊本席要請教"},{"start":6820.543,"end":6835.675,"text":"在故宮的報告裡面有提到說你會持續辦理改箱違規的這個業務那根據故宮過去自己的聲明在113年開始呢會自行製作文物包裝盒來改善包裝那接下來也會逐步的進展成"},{"start":6836.015,"end":6862.551,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":6862.813,"end":6891.938,"text":"而RFID的部分就是有關文物典藏管理的一個數位掃碼的這個南院的話完成建置和完成測試那北院的話是以那個七七庫房來先進行那至於改箱違規的話113年就是我們今年開始要進行製作文物包裝那我們也迎聘了專業的人員從英國回來他現在在做規劃之中我們希望說114年起是真的可以進行這樣的一個工作"},{"start":6892.338,"end":6918.147,"text":"好,那本期也希望說我們接下來也會有進行修復計畫的說明會那針對故宮這邊有心將我們產品的收藏環境、參訪環境來進行改善呢本期非常的支持但是希望故宮針對相關人員的待遇是不是也應該拒禁那也希望我們故宮是持續的以國際級的博物館一直這樣的姿態一直走在前端希望我們故宮可以繼續努力謝謝好謝謝委員,謝謝委員指教"},{"start":6921.568,"end":6938.941,"text":"好謝謝委員還有謝謝院長那我們就是在第9位葛如君委員之完畢之後答詢完畢之後我們就先暫時休息5分鐘好不好好那我們現在先由第7位的張雅琳委員我事先預告所以讓後面才會知道好好那麼有請院長謝謝謝謝"},{"start":6948.801,"end":6954.091,"text":"總委很早好謝謝喔那欸這什麼他自己按的沒有反應欸對哪裡啊"},{"start":6960.882,"end":6979.314,"text":"首先因為剛剛其實大家都非常關注就是說我們那個故宮身為一個台灣重要的一個博物館也是世界級的一個博物館那其實是我們台灣作為文化外交一個非常有利的一個武器那我查閱您過去的發言是有提到說你希望可以促進國際的交流打亮故宮這個招牌"},{"start":6980.234,"end":6999.867,"text":"也有說博物館今年是博物館的觀光旅遊年可是我們從這個數據你可以看見到我們國際交流的次數其實是一直持續的在下滑撇除我們前面那兩年因為疫情的影響但是我們到2022年之後我們的這個國際交流還是一直持續的在下滑"},{"start":7001.297,"end":7026.794,"text":"那這樣子要如何去拓展故宮的國際知名度呢?也沒有辦法讓我們國內這麼多優秀的專家學者的博物館軟實力被世界給看見那再來我又看了一個數據就是我查了一下世界博物館的一個人潮數字大家可以看到左邊這個是大英博物館右邊是羅浮宮大家可以看到他跟2022年大英博物館已經他的人潮已經回到2019年的現況那這個2023年的時候抱歉"},{"start":7031.977,"end":7054.404,"text":"在羅浮宮的部分跟2022年相比他們在2023年已經成長了17%我算過這個數字基本上就是回到2019年的水準了所以世界都以人潮回來了那台灣的參觀人數還是持續的在只有過去的一半所以我想問問院長就是說我們對於這樣子的人潮我們有什麼樣的具體的做法"},{"start":7057.09,"end":7078.955,"text":"基本上來講的話就是博物館的話就跟觀光旅遊是接軌的因為以整個國際的觀光旅遊來講的話回到最多的話當然是英國、法國、美國、日本像這些大國的話他們的人潮回流的速度觀光開放的速度會比較快"},{"start":7080.396,"end":7094.41,"text":"台灣基本上來講的話因為入境的人目前的數量還比較低所以我們有時候故宮是依賴國外的旅客為主所以這個部分回流的確是比較慢"},{"start":7098.247,"end":7115.631,"text":"我幫院長想了一個想法 去年底的時候我看到一個新聞我們台北登上了法國的勒索關鍵字 這兩個國際旅遊網站上面法國人非常喜歡來台北 而且他們中外文化探索"},{"start":7116.591,"end":7126.218,"text":"我們在2020年的時候東京奧運曾經有規劃要去出展但是當時因為疫情那這一次我們去巴黎奧運有沒有剛好搭上這陣熱潮要去參展呢?"},{"start":7128.014,"end":7156.295,"text":"基本上來講的話我們會有一個展覽在明年去凱布朗利博物館但是2024年的話原來是一起在2024年去可是因為疫情的關係所以讓兩邊的協商都慢下來對那所以巴黎奧運我們有沒有這個參展今年有沒有沒有好那我想問一下就是說我希望就算時間有限就是在國際交流的這個部分具體的人潮回升的這個部分我希望院長可不可以在兩個禮拜給我一些說明跟規劃"},{"start":7158.016,"end":7178.428,"text":"雖然我們對外的交流是變少但是我也看到院長非常努力的把世界帶回來台灣所以在這幾年其實有在規劃這個李公林展那據我所知李公林的展品是散落於在世界各地有在台灣美國跟日本那我知道好像也有在跟這些場館去做交流了對不對"},{"start":7180.5,"end":7204.541,"text":"這個部分的話基本上我們在持續進行當中所以有像陳理委員講的就是消息很靈通都是國際重要的那個李光麟的作品所以已經有跟美國跟日本交流了對嗎?我們持續在進行之中但是李光麟還有一個作品是在中國故宮這個部分我想要請教一下我們是不是已經也開始做接洽了?"},{"start":7206.068,"end":7209.346,"text":"中國故宮部分我們目前沒有跟他們有什麼互動"},{"start":7210.097,"end":7238.997,"text":"好喔 那就是陳如剛剛那個秀白委員陳秀白委員說的就是說因為政協在就在這個月初喔他在這個政協安庭喔他在政協第14屆二次會議和第14屆全國人大兩次會簡稱兩會提出了一個建議書喔這邊就提到了兩岸原是一家喔而且甚至建立故宮通飄之讓海外旅客對兩岸形成統一的認知把藝術沾染了這個政治的意涵喔我希望院長可以"},{"start":7240.82,"end":7254.641,"text":"雖然在博物館的專業之下希望把這些優秀的作品帶回來台灣但是我希望院長一定要堅持在對等的交流而且要堅持我們台灣的主權 這個院長可以嗎"},{"start":7255.86,"end":7279.338,"text":"我想跟大陸的交流的話基本上來講的話第一個兩岸關係條例我知道 院長我只要想要確認說您可以堅持這個台灣維持台灣的精神第二個司法免扣押那基本上來講的話我們跟大陸的故宮的直接的交流其實還要更審慎的去討論因為目前來講的話是看不到在那個所謂的"},{"start":7282.274,"end":7294.98,"text":"經濟進展繞台的情況下是看不到這樣的一個契機了解謝謝謝謝院長那再來下一個就是說因為我過去在民間一直在推動就是兒童友善那我也非常高興的看到就是過去故宮其實有參與兒資院兒童參這個諮詢的會議那也邀請我過去的團體那"},{"start":7300.743,"end":7303.747,"text":"我看到這個新聞是2018年我們甚至去串聯了台灣15個博物館一起來打造親子友善但是呢我從這之後我就找不到任何的新聞了所以我不想說這個聯盟實際上還有在運作嗎"},{"start":7318.646,"end":7331.015,"text":"這樣一個聯盟的話基本上來講的話是一個倡議倡議之後的話各個管都在辦理所以所謂的這個聯盟的話是不是有實際上存在的必要的話基本上來講的話應該是大家可以"},{"start":7338.507,"end":7358.004,"text":"好,了解。謝謝院長。就是其實院長我必須說,因為其實這幾年故宮在邮校友善這一塊真是做得非常優秀。我自己都受惠良多。那這部分也要非常感謝院長跟所有全體同仁的努力。那但是我希望這不要只有故宮好,然後其他的博物館難以與時俱進。我希望我們應該要一起來打造一個兒童友善的博物館。"},{"start":7358.964,"end":7385.682,"text":"我也想提供一個建議就是國際兒童友善博物館聯盟他們其實是每兩年他們就會一起來開工作坊跟研討會一起來討論如何讓博物館更兒童友善所以我也希望就是說故宮一方面可以走出去跟大家有更多的實質交流也希望可以擔負起台灣領頭羊的任務帶著台灣的博物館一起共學一起共好讓我們的博物館可以讓孩子真正走進去我們的藝術殿堂欣賞這些藝術作品這個部分"},{"start":7389.004,"end":7406.182,"text":"院長我們可以做得到嗎那個跟委員報告一下就是基本上來講的話就是故宮都有參加博物館的一個聯誼的活動比如說518國際博物館日的話我們連會參與然後另外的話教育部主導的"},{"start":7407.203,"end":7407.703,"text":"我們會來評估。"},{"start":7431.357,"end":7443.858,"text":"好那這部分基本上就是希望就是說可以帶著大家一起共學共好那就再麻煩院長了那這個再來下一個就是說還是一樣兒童有效的一個觀展環境"},{"start":7446.217,"end":7466.093,"text":"從這兩張照片我們可以看到就是說我們可以看到這照片裡面這個我們的字幕的位置其實是在一個比較高的位置大概是在人的頭部這個位置那其實呢我們可以看這是國外日本的或者是歐洲他們其實都有在講我們應該要創造一個兒童友善的觀展環境"},{"start":7466.653,"end":7487.935,"text":"他的視線位置應該落在90到110公分這樣子小孩比較看得到那我知道我們有學藝中心那我這個是想要跟提個建議啦我們會後也可以再詳細的討論我們是不是有可能有一些真正的藝術品可以讓他降到這樣子的高度讓孩子可以真正的是欣賞這些藝術的作品這件事情我們是不是可以來討論"},{"start":7489.036,"end":7512.748,"text":"跟委員報告一下故宮目前的展櫃跟未來的展櫃設計的話我們都有採取通用設計讓幼兒盡量都可以從80的高度開始的話我們讓他們可以更方便的欣賞到這些作品所以目前已經是在規劃中了是嗎所以我們未來的展館現在南院的話基本上來講的話都是以80起跳"},{"start":7513.7,"end":7541.811,"text":"那我們臺北的部分呢預計什麼時候會完成這件事情呢臺北基本上來講的話只要是新的空間的展覽規劃的話我們都會依照這個標準但是因為如果說要把所有的展廳通通改的話那變成是一個比較大的變動對我們基本上只是要求我們是不是有一些可能兒童會喜歡的作品如果在做這個展廳的規劃的時候我們往這個方向沒有問題好的那謝謝謝謝院長今天的回覆謝謝"},{"start":7542.971,"end":7543.412,"text":"致謝張偉,有請院長"},{"start":7561.264,"end":7566.168,"text":"委員長去年故宮北院參觀人次超過155萬那其中本國的旅客佔了53.9%那外籍旅客佔了46.1%那其中韓國旅客最多有36.6%日本排第二27.5那港澳中國跟其他地區加總才7.5%"},{"start":7586.526,"end":7602.86,"text":"迎接新的英明的到來許多人都會許下新年心希望我們故宮當然也不例外作為對2024的展望 院長你曾表示說北院希望今年能突破200萬人次南院要突破100萬人次南北院參觀的人次加總希望也達到350萬人次為目標請問院長是不是這樣 你有沒有信心"},{"start":7613.368,"end":7615.529,"text":"我們希望南北院能成為台灣文化觀光發展的雙引擎帶動全台博物館觀光量能的拉台"},{"start":7634.913,"end":7659.403,"text":"另外本席認為同樣值得注目跟鼓勵的就是從2018年就開始推動故宮國寶出遊區這個專案這個專案讓故宮有機會進一步和臺灣本土歷史還有它的文化脈絡做對話跟地方政府攜手合作讓文物可以在全國各地去展出"},{"start":7660.583,"end":7688.1,"text":"此次我們共同見證台南四百的歷史時刻故宮典藏最高人氣的翠玉白菜來到我們台南景深千逢難載故宮國寶在台南展出之列小小宣傳一下這一波展期就到3月10日大家要看要快喔故宮身為台灣博物館龍頭是一座國際知名博物館"},{"start":7689,"end":7709.352,"text":"無論是新年新希望或者是說我們對於觀展者的經營跟開發又或者故宮國寶出遊區這樣專案的辦理這些作為我們除了是對故宮自身定位與角色的尋求外相當程度我們也是代表台灣展現在國際舞台上的態度"},{"start":7710.674,"end":7717.806,"text":"故宮點藏的是全人類的珍貴文化資產因為管理以及維護這樣的資產讓台灣有機會能夠跟各國進行交流"},{"start":7724.428,"end":7745.202,"text":"這是身處所謂我們在這個國家縫間努力創造國際空間的台灣不可或缺的暖實力所以本席真的非常關心這個跨國博物館合作的問題那在實行前其實有跟辦公室有跟故宮做過初步的討論那知道說像今年9月"},{"start":7746.002,"end":7760.541,"text":"我們就跟法國的博物館有合作的計劃要在北院舉辦特展那在明年的9月我們也會跟捷克的國家博物館合作在布拉格舉辦故宮百品以及故事的展覽"},{"start":7761.923,"end":7780.856,"text":"所以未來我看故宮跟國際博物館的合作的計畫是一連串的預期一定相當的精彩跟豐富那談到跨國博物館的合作我們就必須來進一步思考相關的倫理以及剛剛提到的故宮呈現在國際舞台上的態度"},{"start":7781.616,"end":7809.538,"text":"那我想我們先前就我跟進一步請教如果我們要進行跨國博物館的合作我們必須要考量什麼樣的面向那故宮給我們的回應是說第一跨國博物館合作的前提是要司法的保障也就是確保文物借展之後能夠安全返台第二我們要評估它的經濟效益那再來我們要確保文物的運送這個展覽過程中的安全性"},{"start":7810.479,"end":7831.328,"text":"故宮對於文物安全與完整性的重視這一點其實相當重要本席也非常認同不過我們目前跟我們合作的國家並沒有無所不用其極要打壓台灣的國際空間而且高舉對台灣侵略意圖的國家換句話說假設跨國博物館的合作一旦遇到了中國"},{"start":7832.208,"end":7834.149,"text":"關於加強兩岸故宮博物院交流與合作的建議"},{"start":7851.454,"end":7874.726,"text":"他的論述是說兩岸故宮兼務著兩岸同胞講好中國的故事要傳遞文化認同感的時代使命並且希望讓海外客群對兩岸故宮形成統一的認知最終也希望達成所謂經台深度融合與交流再來就要請教院長了"},{"start":7875.97,"end":7890.288,"text":"第一是否認同中國假借文物之名行文化統戰之實把博物館當成是政治工具的行為那第二我們台灣故宮有沒有促進台灣人對"},{"start":7891.63,"end":7918.55,"text":"中國產生認同感的使命第三這個故宮文物到底是屬於中國還是屬於全人類的文化資產最後要請教的是那如果遇到中國這樣單方面的放話那並提出種種要跟我們故宮做交流這樣的計畫那我們到底有沒有實際的作為來捍衛對等跟尊嚴避免其他國家對台灣跟中國之間的關係有誤解"},{"start":7921.792,"end":7938.071,"text":"院長請您回答臺灣是一個自由民主就是既有非常深厚文化軟實力的國家那當然兩岸的文化交流有助於兩岸民眾的相互了解基本上來講的話"},{"start":7939.753,"end":7940.614,"text":"委員長蕭宗煌"},{"start":7960.589,"end":7964.77,"text":"在兩會提出這樣的建議的話基本上來講的話當然也是拋出一個議題"},{"start":7983.695,"end":8011.373,"text":"所以是不是這樣就統戰的話基本上來講的話我想我們也不見得說一定要這樣把他指涉可是他是明明就很清楚的講說這個要透過這樣的一個合作要對這個兩岸故宮形成統一的認知這是他這個這樣子產出的故宮的文物基本上來講的話是屬於台灣這一塊土地為什麼呢因為在"},{"start":8013.135,"end":8019.585,"text":"在那個行政的跨國上面的話這批東西的話是屬於中華民國政府"},{"start":8020.681,"end":8041.426,"text":"我們每年的話要跟財政部去報我們的財產總量那基本上來講另外有文資法管制所以在這個法令涉及的範圍裡面它都是屬於中華民國這是沒有問題屬於中華民國也屬於全人類的文化資產它當然也是全人類的一個文化資產"},{"start":8044.907,"end":8071.801,"text":"謝謝院長的說明我想我們要繼續努力那特別是我剛提及就是說我們怎麼樣把我們故宮那麼漂亮那麼有文化這個意義的這些這些文物透過這個與國外的交流然後讓故宮國寶出遊去讓更多的國家看到這個屬於全人類的文化資產在台灣的這些文物有機會看到這些我想"},{"start":8072.441,"end":8087.019,"text":"故宮繼續加油,OK,謝謝謝謝,謝謝委員好,謝謝,謝謝院長那接下來我們是請葛如君委員我還是說一下,葛如君委員質詢完畢之後呢我們先休息5分鐘,剛剛已經特別預告了,謝謝,不好意思"},{"start":8110.751,"end":8112.132,"text":"主席有請故宮博物院院長蕭院長"},{"start":8132.884,"end":8149.031,"text":"院長早這是我首次進行故宮業務的質詢首先想要向您請教我的辦公室前幾天向故宮索資但是一直等到昨天下午資料才陸續回覆據瞭解也有不少委員遇到類似的情況"},{"start":8150.991,"end":8168.917,"text":"根據我們的理解也收到一些消息說是因為您週二整天待在立院無法簽合公文的緣故雖然中午休息時間據稱您還特地趕回故宮來處理公務但應該有不少的立委辦公室跟我們一樣都非常晚取得資料想請教一下院長這個我們數位的時代"},{"start":8172.578,"end":8193.366,"text":"處理公文應該有不少的數位工具可以來使用加速公文的流程讓立院與故宮的往來可以更加的便利剛剛我也在交通委員會質詢了唐鳳部長有關電子簽章的這個推行想請教部長未來這個公文可不可以更快是難道一定要撤碼回故宮蓋玉席所以才花那麼多時間嗎"},{"start":8195.142,"end":8195.162,"text":"議員報告"},{"start":8206.872,"end":8207.332,"text":"謝謝,不好意思打斷"},{"start":8230.08,"end":8252.35,"text":"我想下一次我想公文的往來希望可以更有效率同時也呼籲希望可以導入電子簽章電子公文還有相關的公文的往返也希望給我們一個更好的一個時間的癒化院長您是博物館學者也是經營博物館的專家我十分的期待用科技壓宅的角度來跟您互動交流也希望透過今天的質詢我們今天彼此都能夠有收穫"},{"start":8253.09,"end":8256.213,"text":"回顧10年來故宮的參觀人數從2014年540萬人到2016年最高峰614萬人2021年參觀人數降到10年來最低只有115萬人降幅達到81%這10年來的參觀人數可以說是巨大的變化"},{"start":8274.006,"end":8292.134,"text":"我們可以看到你們有提出來希望2024年故宮達成350萬參觀人數可是我們可以看到一二月的人數加起來是45萬人如果我們來這個等比例放大來幫你們推估的話大概可能無法達到甚至可能也沒有機會重返或突破2016年的614萬人想確認一下院長這個350萬人的參觀人數的目標還在嗎614萬人有沒有機會突破"},{"start":8300.989,"end":8303.35,"text":"謝謝院長我想我們都一起來努力不過我的態度相對的比較悲觀不管是350萬還是600萬因為近年來"},{"start":8317.641,"end":8342.208,"text":"博物館要吸引民眾入館參觀的難度可以說是越來越高由於這個open gallery open library open museum的世界趨勢我們來看下一張博物館的館藏被認為是具有公共屬性的資料因此被期待能夠加速更加速多元的開放給公共使用目的是促進知識的流通還有大眾的福祉"},{"start":8343.768,"end":8369.094,"text":"相信不遠的將來民眾只要使用電腦手機平板甚至是我手上這一台是Apple剛推出的Vision Pro所謂空間運算的裝置也就是下一個世代的電腦很可能會人手一台每個民眾都可以隨時隨地的穿越任何場域參觀任何的博物館想請問一下院長您認為這樣的現象會促使民眾更有意願親自到博物館看展"},{"start":8369.674,"end":8393.992,"text":"還是民眾透過智慧穿戴裝置看完了就不再想去博物館參觀了我想如果是數位是一個工具的話那基本上來講我們當然期待是觀眾透過數位工具可以了解博物館的內涵之後然後可以親身到博物館裡面去親自這些文物當場去檢視這些文物我想這是我們的期待好很好謝謝我想我們有一致的看法"},{"start":8394.492,"end":8398.795,"text":"不過我想這個其實還是需要經過很多的努力除了擁抱數位以外還要這個做得很好我們看到根據資料2022年故宮曾經與8位原創插畫家合作開發新型態的文化創意生成品NFT我想這個NFT其實是數位商品這個算是一種轉型轉型的規劃方案更多元的"},{"start":8421.79,"end":8441.611,"text":"過去故宮的電商賣了五千多萬還是算不錯那希望還是持續的精進加強這一台這個Vision Pro民眾只要眨個眼就可以買商品了如果眨個眼買的商品如果是數位的商品連運貨都不用但是呢我們2022年的相關的合作跟Rutex這個NFT"},{"start":8442.472,"end":8465.073,"text":"成立故宮精品NFT品牌商城利益良好啦我作為阿宅我還是給予鼓勵但是推出的12款NFT商品只賣出了6款收入只有23.6萬新台幣故宮在NFT這一塊做得早給予鼓勵我是支持的但是做得不夠好如果做得不夠好就沒有辦法達到虛擬世界愛上這些文物的人呢"},{"start":8465.633,"end":8483.974,"text":"來到我們的實體世界來看我們來看幾個例子2021的9月東宮博物館跟幣安NFT合作以NFT的形式來拍賣重量級館藏的數位複製品此次拍賣籌集的45萬的BUSD也就是幣安美元他甚至還接受虛擬貨幣的購買"},{"start":8486.056,"end":8511.181,"text":"2020年9月大英博物館推出了第一個NFT系列拍賣了200張以日本服事會大師葛氏北齋作品我們看一下那個葛氏北齋的作品那三張很漂亮這個浪潮這個電腦看起來可能這個對文化還在吸收當中那不只賣得非常的好甚至在7月進一步和這個所謂的元宇宙遊戲平台Sandbox合作"},{"start":8511.801,"end":8528.314,"text":"大英博物館授權他們來做這個NFT的收藏跟沉浸式的體驗空間我想這個接下來應該要一起來努力希望想請教一下院長關於這樣的一個數位的沉浸的NFT的計畫院方有沒有想要再持續的精進的計畫"},{"start":8530.406,"end":8533.589,"text":"謝謝院長我想我還是鼓勵院長你們做得早但是我想也要做得好"},{"start":8556.127,"end":8573.474,"text":"確實你們有開放相關的文物但是我手上這一台Vision Pro一隻眼睛就是4K兩隻眼睛加起來就是8K但是我們目前故宮用CC0授權的中低階圖檔CC0還不錯但是只有100萬畫素100萬畫素是非常非常的低中階圖檔600萬畫素是CC by name4.0的授權約40萬張但是這在現在的數位內容比起來這解析度實在太低了"},{"start":8584.938,"end":8592.179,"text":"後續有沒有考慮進一步的開放中高階甚至高階的圖檔來供民眾自由免費的禁用使用修改與分享"},{"start":8593.124,"end":8620.431,"text":"跟委員報告我們原先就是有規劃那個中高階2000到3000的一個土檔但是因為前面的所謂的土壤外流事件所以這個部分的話我們現在就暫緩那另外一個原因就是因為如果我們把這個中高階的土檔40萬張PO上去的話那個loading會很慢所以一般的民眾的話不見得都做專業的應用如果要用專業的應用的話可以跟直接跟故宮聯繫然後要有高階土檔"},{"start":8621.071,"end":8638.639,"text":"謝謝院長 我想精神我們都是一致的 兩點建議 第一點希望能夠有開放騎乘 請問有沒有開放的騎乘現在只有暫緩 希望可以趕快來讓我們知道騎乘 同時我想開放才是最重要的 故宮豐富的館藏對這個世界來說非常重要"},{"start":8639.079,"end":8658.568,"text":"如果我們不讓更多的人認識他看到他那就沒有人喜愛他沒有人喜愛他大家就不會來實體世界來參觀最後一個問題我想請教一下院長最近應該有注意到AI的運用與博物館開放授權的議題因為故宮在11月的時候去年11月我們有做很多研究謝謝你們"},{"start":8662.05,"end":8683.285,"text":"目前生成式的AI可以說越來越進化前幾天OpenAI還做了一個短影片生成器叫做 Sora這個能夠依據各種的咒語來生成流暢的影片但是由於生成式AI的訓練跟產出需要大量的素材來產出這些作品的內容某種程度也是一個我們作品分享給全世界的方法"},{"start":8683.945,"end":8705.454,"text":"故宮如果能夠更加的開放數位文物的檔案就可以被深層式AI運用來幫我們宣傳想請教一下院長故宮目前對於深層式AI的運用以及博物館開放授權的議題究竟立場怎麼樣我想一昧的暫緩也不是辦法是不是有針對深層式AI對圖檔的運用有沒有一些演繹相關的規範解析度應該還要再提高這塊想聽一下院長的意見"},{"start":8710.596,"end":8730.267,"text":"跟委員報告,我們這一次在台南美術館的故宮展覽裏面就有AI的餐飲室的作品我們把富春山基圖跟賽尚、莫內他們的作品用一個融合的方式去呈現,這是故宮的一個嘗試"},{"start":8731.388,"end":8749.486,"text":"另外的話在推廣教育上面的話我們也是希望說用AI融入STEM的方式然後推廣到那個基層的學校謝謝我想故宮一直都走得很前面但是也希望能夠走得很好我想今天的質詢我們主要聚焦在OpenGLAM的浪潮之下"},{"start":8749.946,"end":8765.13,"text":"姑宮如何來調整營運模式跟營運策略同時也希望針對深層式AI數位開放能夠更多元的擁抱這個世界的趨勢很高興可以跟院長來交流希望我們未來能夠就更多與博物館有關的數位議題來多多進行討論謝謝"},{"start":8778.695,"end":8789.582,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":9177.028,"end":9177.468,"text":"吳佩奕委員蕭院長"},{"start":9195.561,"end":9210.667,"text":"委員長在我開始質詢今天題目之前想要先跟您釐清因為我剛聽前面的委員在質詢當中有幾個事實上面似乎看起來是有落差第一個是說有委員提到過去幾年我們故宮來自港澳中國的旅客有近五成那您說這數字是錯誤的所以實際上數字以去年近幾年來說是多少大約幾成"},{"start":9225.666,"end":9243.032,"text":"基本上來講的話因為我手上沒有精確的數字我不便這樣直接的回應可是五分之一基本上來講的話兩成的話是一定有但是五成的話基本上來講的話是因為他"},{"start":9244.524,"end":9267.29,"text":"亞洲的客人混在一起的話其實沒有辦法精確辨認那兩層的話是因為團客團客是很清楚從大陸來的這個是沒有問題所以五成是一個可能是高於事實的數字對以目前來講的話還是有入客雖然沒有開放兩岸的觀光但是還是有的入客我們自由行還是有的"},{"start":9268.25,"end":9279.914,"text":"剛剛還有一個資訊是由委員來提問說我們的語音的系統也就是我們的導覽機的標案以我們語音導覽的系統的標案來詢問你我們導覽人力的配置而事實上我們故宮的導覽人力有沒有委外由廠商來進行"},{"start":9292.355,"end":9306.775,"text":"基本上導覽的話是由故宮的導覽志工來進行 我們的導覽人力是以導覽志工那另外我們配有導覽機 所以這個表演事實上是導覽機的表演 不是導覽人力的表演 是嗎"},{"start":9309.958,"end":9316.241,"text":"導覽機和系統建設包括文案的翻譯所以院長我要跟您提醒一點就是我認為我們故宮需要來加強跟委員的溝通因為像我剛剛上述我只是列舉兩個其實是客觀數字客觀資訊"},{"start":9332.54,"end":9335.363,"text":"應該是不需要在我們質詢的現場來進行討論在這裡我們要跟你們是進行也許政策的辯論觀點的辯論像這種基礎的資訊我想我們要加強溝通讓委員能夠了解好不好接下來呢"},{"start":9348.54,"end":9353.882,"text":"這個我在網路上面有看到我們故宮有跟我們台灣的嘻哈歌手韓森有一個合作那這個韓森呢也是在我們文化部有補助的大嘻哈時代選秀出來的歌手我認為這是一個很好的嘗試那事實上近幾年我們故宮有"},{"start":9368.988,"end":9373.95,"text":"新故宮計劃裡面除了軟體的行銷之外它一開始其實也是硬體的擴建整建的計劃同樣我想要在這裡請問院長因為我們故宮要來做擴建跟整建當然我們是政府機關文資法的符合這是基本要件我們都是公務員但是我們之所以要做整擴建主要的目的是什麼"},{"start":9394.517,"end":9418.572,"text":"一開始為什麼我們要做這個整庫建的計畫是我們目前故宮的建築體有什麼樣的需求來需要改善跟委員報告就是那個故宮北院的部分因為它經過5次的整建就是說它從那個正方形然後變成長方形變成摸字形總共經歷5次所以它的整個空間的"},{"start":9421.153,"end":9422.674,"text":"露水嚴重 管線老舊 這會造成我們博物館有什麼樣的問題"},{"start":9441.169,"end":9444.952,"text":"對,因為呢在我進來立法院之前我就看到我們立法院其實非常的關心我們故宮文物保存"},{"start":9469.332,"end":9488.59,"text":"因為我們發生過幾次文物碎裂的事件所以大家都非常關心所以我認為這個擴展建的工程是必要的而且是急迫的因為依照我們的博物館法我們的收藏保存維護博物館的基本功能是博物館法對我們的要求"},{"start":9489.631,"end":9493.393,"text":"這一點我也希望我們故宮在對外的說明上面還有社會的溝通上面要說清楚告訴我們的社會大眾為什麼今天我們納稅人必須要來支持故宮的整擴建計畫因為目前我們的建築體的條件對我們的文物保存事實上它在功能性上面是已經不符合需求了"},{"start":9513.041,"end":9515.804,"text":"這一點是迫切的因為我們希望我們故宮這麼珍貴世界級的文物在我們故宮裡面可以被妥善的保存這個漏水等等的問題必須要盡速的解決這一點我希望我們故宮能夠來加強溝通說明可不可以來改善"},{"start":9531.734,"end":9551.941,"text":"對 這個部分的話我們剛剛辦了兩場的說明會我們會跟那個社會各界來管換來說明好院長一樣是我們委員會也剛剛有很多人在關心我們的觀光尤其我們的人次院長我請教你我們故宮作為博物館這個觀光是我們博物館必要要達成的目標嗎"},{"start":9554.742,"end":9566.049,"text":"這是新故宮計畫我們兩項三項子計畫中的最後一項計畫就希望透過一個文化觀光然後吸引更多的國際人士來臺我們要達成觀我們要促進觀光我們最重要的目標是什麼在我看來我們新故宮計畫叫做公共化因為公共性也是博物館法給予我們的要求"},{"start":9578.636,"end":9605.563,"text":"所以我們覺得的確我們故宮富有促進觀光的責任但我們不是在要求你們單純為了提升產值那是因為故宮以台北來說過去我在台北市議會我們常常也希望我們的市政府可以多來跟故宮合作為什麼呢因為故宮是國際旅客來到台北必造訪的前五大景點之一我們都一直希望故宮能夠作為一個觀光的引擎"},{"start":9606.443,"end":9635.683,"text":"當我們國際的旅客好不容易來到台灣好不容易來到台北因為他們想來故宮參觀那我們希望他在故宮參觀之後能夠也接連著來認識我們台北在地我們在地的文化資源等等的所以我看到我們的新故宮計畫裡面除了硬體的改建之外的確也有軟體方面行銷觀光等等的資源但是我們目前跟地方政府合作的計畫包括了哪些呢院長"},{"start":9637.244,"end":9655.237,"text":"跟地方政府合作的計劃當然一個就是跟不同的風景區或是機構他們去做聯名譬如說像101、順義原住民博物館這些都有一個聯名的機制然後跟台北市政府的官傳局我們也有合作"},{"start":9656.317,"end":9676.826,"text":"另外一個的話就是說我們大家很期待所有的觀眾趕快回到故宮可是觀眾沒有辦法一時回到故宮的時候我們現在做的階段性就是把故宮的展覽往外送就是現在目前來講的話有台南美術館然後有那個客家文化六堆文化中心然後接下來的話會這個禮拜的話會到那個宜蘭"},{"start":9680.828,"end":9683.109,"text":"在我看到你們的這個公共化計畫裡面有部分的計畫內容你們是希望能夠跟地方政府來合作的那我從議會過來所以呢以我經驗來說其實我認為我們故宮能夠跟地方政府合作的項目還包含了很多"},{"start":9710.418,"end":9737.855,"text":"例如說明年度我們是不是有一個希望可以來跟日本來合作這個休學的這些學生能夠來到故宮是不是有一個這樣的計畫去年我們跟那個觀光使合作就是遊輪的一個只要遊輪到我們就開館的一個計畫那基本上來講的話就是雙方認為成效都不錯那今年我們想跟他們合作的話就是有關日本的休學旅行休學旅行就是畢業旅行"},{"start":9740.877,"end":9760.391,"text":"對,像這個來吸引外國的學校的休學旅行來到台灣其實也是各個地方政府每年教育局都在推廣的計畫除了日韓以外,包含東南亞的國家我們也都是每年都有洽談合作的所以呢,我認為我們故宮我們的主業是博物館但是我們富有要帶動"},{"start":9761.952,"end":9782.383,"text":"地區甚至全台灣觀光量能這樣子的任務所以我認為我們應該要借力使力各地的地方政府因為都有觀光局都有觀傳局有交通局有交易局有文化局每一年這些地方政府的局處他們也都在努力促進觀光我們故宮要做的角色應該是整合資源"},{"start":9784.284,"end":9784.304,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":9804.156,"end":9814.283,"text":"我認為在台北市我們能夠加強的合作那如果有需要洽談的部分我也很樂意來進行這個幫忙所以我希望說我們故宮是不是能夠在兩個月就台北市我們來加強跟地方政府合作就我們原先希望來以故宮的量能帶動觀光的這個目標來進行合作能不能可以兩個月之內給我一個初步的評估"},{"start":9830.794,"end":9849.846,"text":"好,我們跟那個臺北市觀傳集的話其實我們已經開啟合作了去年的那個故宮博物館之夜海灣故宮其實就是跟觀傳集合作的這非常的好那我也希望說未來有更多的合作讓我們故宮尤其北院區在臺北市能夠帶動更多的觀光發展好不好好,謝謝"},{"start":9858.918,"end":9880.799,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝院長院長在下一個質詢之前我可不可以先請您稍微做一個澄清請問一下南院有沒有副處長這個職缺跟委員報告南院是有副處長的職缺可是目前沒有補是好謝謝我只是要確定剛剛我們在質詢台上面老師我沒有講清楚是好我們互相把這個問題釐定清楚謝謝院長謝謝"},{"start":9883.865,"end":9884.966,"text":"林倩琦委員蕭院長"},{"start":9904.211,"end":9918.507,"text":"委員長很早辛苦了不知道您還記不記得院長跟本席是在什麼樣子的場合下認識的很早了從那個高雄文化高雄縣文化局局長那時候"},{"start":9920.322,"end":9941.817,"text":"所以我對你的印象非常深,是我人生很難忘記的一個人我們第一次,請大家不要多想,我要講的是接下來這才是重點第一次見面其實是在中華民國文化盃的那個週球比賽上"},{"start":9942.93,"end":9960.853,"text":"然後在賽前當然我有同仁已經跟我做一些提醒但是我還不信邪我認為我的整個乒乓球的球技可能沒有那麼差結果沒想到就在你淡定的身影下把我殺得落花流水故宮的高手更多我相信因為在賽前我的同仁們告訴我說"},{"start":9961.875,"end":9982.615,"text":"通常你只要碰到博物館的大概我們都沒有機會了因為他們至少能夠相對比較正常的在早酒晚午的正常上班的情況下那我們這個文化局的大概通常都是不僅要早酒那可能晚酒都還不夠所以呢我後來就非常清楚的認知了這一點所以我對您的印象非常深不過您秋季真的很好"},{"start":9984.716,"end":9997.541,"text":"您記憶也很好 我也很樂見說在這樣子的一個情況中您還能夠很穩健的這樣升遷實在是我們文化界的一個很重要的事情"},{"start":9999.232,"end":10018.599,"text":"接下來我想請教一下院長不曉得您覺得我們故宮最重要的文化商品除了翠玉白菜還有肉形石跟毛公鼎以外在我們印象中最夯的有什麼樣子的文化商品"},{"start":10021.526,"end":10047.991,"text":"故宮基本上來講的話有所謂人氣國寶人氣國寶的話就早期的所謂的什麼故宮三寶那時候教科書上有的就是翠白菜肉形石然後還有毛公頂但是故宮自己認定的北宋三寶的話是宦寬的西山行李圖李堂的萬貨送風跟郭熹的早春圖這三張作品的話其實在繪畫史上的話是無可匹敵的一個重要"},{"start":10048.431,"end":10065.785,"text":"所以那個院長講的應該是韓話那我們知道我們都選過這個故宮三寶那研究員的故宮三寶跟一般民間認知的故宮三寶雖然有落差可是都有它的價值但是呢一般大家可能在這幾年來印象最深的不知道院長有沒有聽過鄭知道了"},{"start":10068.807,"end":10088.927,"text":"有,因為這是屬於文獻列的檔案資料所以它作為一個文創商品是賣得很夯是沒有錯是的,因為我也帶學生去過然後大家也搶購這個東南亞的學生也都搶購這樣子的一個商品那不知道您曉得它的產值大概有多少嗎因為這是院內的資料"},{"start":10091.209,"end":10114.81,"text":"好了就算不知道也沒關係我的PP上面大家看到那個膠袋正知道的膠袋大概200塊那據說兩年內至少已經成功的賣出14萬套所以這樣子的一個龍井在2013年左右讓我們看到了原來文化商品的這樣一個行銷或者是產值是可以達到某一種讓我們期待的"},{"start":10115.836,"end":10118.198,"text":"姑公有沒有像這樣子量能這麼高的文化商品讓大家有記憶的?"},{"start":10139.555,"end":10163.308,"text":"這是一個延伸性的直接由我們的典藏的圖檔資料裡面延伸的可是另外一種延伸商品的話其實在去年引起熱潮的是庫克柏綠克熊就是說基本上來講的話是排隊購買的商品不好意思什麼熊啊抱歉在好沒有關係沒有關係那我想聽起來是一個很可愛的商品對是一個公仔"},{"start":10164.368,"end":10190.61,"text":"對,那是一個公仔但這個部分呢本席沒有像這個正知道的這樣子的一個聽說所以那這個部分我認為正知道的這樣一個很棒的商品在這已經邁入第11年那我覺得這個部分的投入大家可以再省思所以這個部分是不是可以請這個故宮讓我們的文化商品"},{"start":10191.618,"end":10218.788,"text":"能夠將故宮的很重要的華夏文化的價值傳到全世界跟委員報告一下其實我們現在在進行另外一個就是說衍生性的就不見得直接從商品裡面出發所以我們昨天的話譬如說跟台灣的幾家的那個茶葉的廠商然後我們在合作要建立共同的品牌這個部分的話就是聯名品牌的話其實是我們"},{"start":10221.089,"end":10248.302,"text":"簡單的講話叫做目前獲利的主力謝謝講到這個我覺得不僅您好忙那個連我想故宮的同仁都很忙那茶這件事情我們從小就接觸了當然可以是我們在地很重要一項文化那我們知道在南院也把茶打成一個主題但是我覺得大家都非常的辛苦以故宮這樣子一個國際性的定位你們的業務其實還蠻辛苦的"},{"start":10250.263,"end":10272.761,"text":"所以我就耳聞那個院長好忙跟我們同仁好忙但是這個很辛苦的院長我知道您真的很忙但是在這個過程當中我知道您忙的其實是有某一些意義但是這個外傳的跟本席所了解的可能有一些落差我在這邊基本上期待院長這邊可以做一個釐清因為我聽到有人說這個您好忙然後忙著要當文化部長"},{"start":10277.905,"end":10304.409,"text":"您覺得您要怎麼回應我這個問題?報言就是我原來跟陳院長說我要退休陳院長說既然你要退休表示沒有後顧之憂能不能去故宮那邊看看有什麼問題幫忙處理一下我既然答應院長就是故宮是我最後一個公職我不會再有其他的考量"},{"start":10304.969,"end":10326.715,"text":"我想文化界會對你很有期待啦那既然是您最後一個公職我相信一個歷史定位一定對你非常的重要那我也非常的期待當然有些東西會令你覺得很兩難所以我是那個耳聞那個故宮目前的一個狀況大家對你這樣子的一個未來的走向"},{"start":10327.515,"end":10347.79,"text":"有一些傳言那既然您在這邊已經談到如果你目前的規劃故宮會是您最後一個工作但是我期待我相信文化界對你都有期待那未來事情我們不知道但是我在這邊對於您要有一個歷史定位那我猜想我確定抱歉我確定故宮"},{"start":10348.59,"end":10358.626,"text":"成立100年的這樣一個計畫我今天早上在才拿到的這個業務報告裡面沒有看到我想是不是院裡面這邊可以告訴我到底是在哪裡"},{"start":10361.475,"end":10382.036,"text":"故宮百年計畫基本上來講的話它是一個歷程它並不是一個計畫或是一個特別的只是說在我覺得它是蠻重要的啦像我們建國百年也會慶祝然後故宮百年應該非常的重要而且以故宮的脈絡來講這個"},{"start":10383.758,"end":10408.083,"text":"其實故宮最主要就是北京故宮的東西通通都被我們搬來到台灣那所以請問一下故宮的這個100年你們打算慶祝100年還是一甲子應該這樣講就是1925年北京故宮成立然後1965年台北故宮成立然後2015年那個嘉義故宮成立所以一個是100一個是60一個是10"},{"start":10410.784,"end":10432.882,"text":"聽起來很完美啊都正好是一個能大肆慶祝的時間所以我必須提醒故宮在第一筆成立的經費我們都知道羅浮宮也是因為先有人捐贈然後開始因為法國文化大革命之後產生了這樣一個博物館的風潮所以第一筆經費其實我必須幫國民黨講些話"},{"start":10435.144,"end":10448.86,"text":"這是我們蔣介石委員所捐贈的那是在100對不起那個100年前那個故宮也是你們故宮博物院網站寫的10月10日那也是我們的國慶日成立故宮博物院然後公開展覽"},{"start":10449.861,"end":10465.588,"text":"然後後來我們在一甲子之前來到了台灣那我想請問一下那這一個部分不值得慶祝嗎大家講了很多新故宮計畫可是在這樣一個歷史的時間點我們是不是應該正視這件事情那故宮100年"},{"start":10467.429,"end":10492.627,"text":"我深切的期待這個一百年是一個故宮很重要的一個里程碑那我們可以透過這樣一個機會包括我剛才聽到那個院長跟我們本黨的委員在談我們跟國外的交流那如果你們捷克的這個交流目前已經忙得這個這麼灰頭土臉的話那請問故宮一百年尤其是對於華夏文化我作為一個原住民來談談漢人的文化那這個"},{"start":10496.11,"end":10513.07,"text":"這個部分是非常重要至少對我而言我覺得應該是非常重要的那我看不到這個100年也沒有看到任何跟100年有關的相關資訊那這對我們來講對華夏文化來講情何以堪所以我期待那個故宮不要讓這個包括南院"},{"start":10514.211,"end":10540.861,"text":"斷裂了華夏文化我知道茶在台灣是很重要本席其實以前一直學茶對茶的文化有長期的關注所以當然在南院呢我們展示了茶然後以這個宗教為主以整個的主題其實是有點脫離了華夏文化的一個脈絡所以我期待是不是故宮南院不要斷裂了華夏文化的歷史作為一個原住民這樣對你們講我想應該大家不用再吵了嘛吼那"},{"start":10541.861,"end":10554.112,"text":"最後我早上聽到很多人都對你有一些責難那我在這個這幾年過程當中包括您在這個教育推廣上我都覺得其實是真的應該幫你說一句話所以你是不是有可能我們這個"},{"start":10558.656,"end":10573.087,"text":"故宮的指導委員會在107年莫名其妙的也在我們的朋友可能沒有注意到的狀況當中就被廢止了那結果大家的責難通通到你的身上那你這麼樣一個難得在這樣一個動亂情況當中能夠繼續持續穩定升遷的"},{"start":10578.891,"end":10604.068,"text":"我相信文化界都有很大的期待所以你不要一個人擔負這個責任好不好可不可以恢復指導委員會讓大家一起來共同決策那其實很多事情你有你的專業我們知道博物館跟美術館的專業但是呢恢復指導委員會其實是可以讓大家一起來參與故宮的決策那你也不用一個人擔那我相信你對這個地方的心是絕對非常的誠意的所以"},{"start":10604.708,"end":10626.938,"text":"如果沒有辦法用恢復這個指導委員會的一個行政命令的話我可能就要提出這個修改故宮組織法所以這件事情是一定要做的那我不希望你一個人擔太多因為在未來的幾個月當中我相信你應該會有一個很重要的歷史地位所以我期待我知道第一件事情對你很兩難但是作為一個原住民"},{"start":10627.938,"end":10653.986,"text":"這個華夏文化成立這個故宮成立100年的慶祝計畫今年我們一定要看到要不然在預算的部分我們可能就必須要有很大的溝通接下來不要一個人擔負這樣一個責任那你這麼棒的一個藝術家跟行政管理的官員那期待恢復指導委員會讓我們一起來創造故宮100年的龍井好嗎那最後祝福你大滿貫"},{"start":10656.466,"end":10678.333,"text":"謝謝委員我們會來演繹謝謝委員好謝謝我們林委員果然是乒乓球打架好情緣很好謝謝謝謝院長那我們謝謝我們接下來我們請郭育晴委員主席好有請院長好院長院長辛苦了好郭委員早"},{"start":10684.189,"end":10703.762,"text":"我想故宮是我們非常重要的文化的一個聖殿但是其實在整個所有的去年我們可以看到就是雖然由國內國旅其實已經開始回復到就是疫情之前的一個盛況但是我們故宮可能還要再加把勁這個等一下我們待會再談那我先來談一下就是關於我們的新故宮計劃他是一個修"},{"start":10709.466,"end":10732.688,"text":"改善整個所有的修護的一個空間當然其實文物對我們來講是最重要的資產當然在2022年我們也很遺憾的就是在文物當中其實我們有部分就是很少很少的一個部分可能因為它本身在搬運或者是在保存或者是在整個所有的移動的過程當中可能產生了一些所謂的文物保存的一個問題"},{"start":10733.889,"end":10747.965,"text":"今年我們當然也聽說就是我們要改成所謂的以物以和改成為以香為貴這樣子我自己在做修正藝術我其實對我自己本身的作品其實要再加上保存"},{"start":10748.626,"end":10752.45,"text":"請問我們是不是有一個比較明確的保存古物的一個安全的標準我們制定的作業流程又是如何那今年我們有沒有做這方面的一個全面改善"},{"start":10772.971,"end":10799.413,"text":"跟委員報告就是故宮發生了所謂的破瓷事件之後我們把所有的典藏管理的規則跟庫房進出庫的規則通通做了一次的翻新然後就是加強它的整個管理的機制那改相違規的部分的話或是一物一合的話在新故宮計畫裡面雖然葉列提到可是沒有很具體的做法"},{"start":10799.793,"end":10821.047,"text":"我到了之後去盤整整個空間因為改箱違規的話它會增加很多空間以目前來講的話故宮的山洞故房還有1000多箱的紋路在裡面如果改箱違規的話現在的空間是沒有辦法容納的所以我們現在在那個山下的行政園區新蓋了一個行政大樓"},{"start":10821.687,"end":10846.538,"text":"未來會把那個跟典藏文物不相關展覆不相關的同仁都牽到山下來辦公然後把山上的空間地下室的部分盡可能改為標準庫房那這樣的話就可以讓這些山洞裡的文物然後可以得到一個標準庫房的一個待遇那對整個文物的保存的話基本上來講的話會有比較好的一個"},{"start":10849.699,"end":10852.22,"text":"目前來說的話我們在去年徵聘了一位同仁從英國回來因為他有擔任博物館的典藏庫房的經驗所以現在"},{"start":10866.544,"end":10896.544,"text":"﹗"},{"start":10897.325,"end":10912.256,"text":"另外一個部分就是關於谷物修復的這樣子的一個工作我想這個我們整個所有在故宮裡面將近快要70萬件的一個文件應該這麼講就是谷物還有包含一些典藏"},{"start":10913.136,"end":10931.943,"text":"目前聽說只有4類的修復室那這4類的修復室當中其實又包含了我們的修復師的人員的配置那我們知道其實修復的人員因為這方面的專業人員我相信其實一定都是上上之選當然也經過一些很嚴格的挑選"},{"start":10934.524,"end":10942.692,"text":"我想這個人員的養成並不容易但是我們看到我們的修復師其實總共才16人是這樣子的一個編制嗎?"},{"start":10945.06,"end":10964.762,"text":"基本上這樣的編制在國內的博物館裡面已經是最大的編制因為國內的博物館他如果說有辦法配置專業的修護師的話大概其他的博物館的話都不在五人制上所以故宮基本上來講在我們整個人力調配上現在目前的人數是這樣"},{"start":10966.487,"end":10976.499,"text":"他們一年當中其實要修復的都是將近快上百件我們可以從這樣子的一個表格當中可以看到光是在去年其實是修復了這個753件次是嗎?對"},{"start":10981.713,"end":10999.178,"text":"對 沒有錯 他平均的話就是一個人的修復數量的話是47件 所以其實有的文物修復或是檢視的話很快但是有的文物的話一修可能他的等待時間的話就是一兩個禮拜甚至上一個月都需要"},{"start":11000.038,"end":11026.808,"text":"因為我們大概知道其實我們整個所有的典藏的文物包含書畫、歷史文獻、紡織、玉器、銅器、瓷器還有其他的一些不同的材質他們有需要不同的一個專業的領域的修護師那目前台灣其實在這方面的人才的培養在大學裡頭相關科系的大概有哪一些我們是不是也從這個地方已經開始在著手這些修護師的一些培養、培訓"},{"start":11028.308,"end":11057.287,"text":"根委員報告就是表列裡面的話其實真正的國內可以培養修復人才的話是那個南藝大的博物館及古物修復研究所因為他真的培養出來的人才的話可以馬上進到博物館來使用其他的管所的所謂的文資的話大部分都是歷史建築或是古蹟方面真正的古物修復的話大概就是南藝大現在是最強的"},{"start":11058.207,"end":11083.693,"text":"另外 政修大學有一個修護中心 修護中心他自己培養的人才 基本上來講 擁有實務經驗 其實也是很強的一個團隊有 這個新聞其實我也有看到 只是我們沒有表列在其中我希望其實就是我們也鼓勵很多的我們的青年朋友們 如果能夠將來可以投入到這樣子的一個修護師的工作 其實是我們蠻樂見的 就跟教育界的結合"},{"start":11084.753,"end":11089.614,"text":"有沒有可能也跟國外的一些博物館的修護師或者是美術館的修護師有來做一個這樣子的一個比較平凡性的交流"},{"start":11115.276,"end":11141.005,"text":"基本上當然有啦就是我們有跟那個英國的諾桑比亞大學跟美國的德拉克拉瓦大學都有進行這樣的一個文物短期的就是一個教育研習訓練那另外的話我們跟那個日本的那個大阪市立陶瓷美術館也有請他們來協助我們做文物持拿文物保存的一個訓練"},{"start":11142.125,"end":11142.185,"text":"議長蕭茜茜議員"},{"start":11172.048,"end":11172.112,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11173.079,"end":11201.915,"text":"今年的目標我們當然是希望北院250萬、南院100萬然後總共350萬那後續的話我們希望細細的提升因為剛剛也有委員提到就是說新故宮計畫完成之後我們的目標值是800萬當然這個目標值的估計可能當時比較樂觀一點就從500萬加到800萬好像很快現在的話從我們最低的時候是11萬要到800萬是一個很長的距離"},{"start":11202.615,"end":11230.729,"text":"可是我相信故宮會超越我們原來的五百多萬的人次我想八百萬我不敢講但是新故宮計畫完成之後五百萬一定沒有問題其實我希望就是不是只有國外的這個訪客來啦其實我們在光是自己本身國內的很多的單位或者是學校的團體其實也能夠做更多的一些交流跟教育的一個工作讓他們去導覽我覺得這個相信也是對故宮是一些好事喔那"},{"start":11232.301,"end":11250.636,"text":"另外就是在跟國外國際接軌我們現在在今年預計跟哪一些國際的單位有所謂的互相交流跟借展的一個活動是目前確定可以被進行的今年確定了兩個展覽活動的話一個是北院放課雅保"},{"start":11254.119,"end":11268.155,"text":"華國裝飾藝術博物館跟故宮合作的大美部演另外一個在南院辦的一個沖繩夜的琉球海上"},{"start":11270.658,"end":11279.524,"text":"對,對,我們會跟法國跟日本的不同單位不同博物館交流合作好,但是在交流的同時也要注意我們的古物的保存"},{"start":11296.12,"end":11317.779,"text":"這是必要的一個條件好謝謝院長謝謝主席好我們謝謝郭委員謝謝院長那接下來我們請陳培宇委員謝謝主席那有請院長好院長不好意思我還是感冒有點嚴重請允許我戴著口罩謝謝院長謝謝主席"},{"start":11319.261,"end":11346.776,"text":"好,院長早安早那之前其實有非常多題目都跟院長討論過那我們今天蠻多事情的第一個是其實故宮近年來有非常多的計畫讓故宮不只是一個在山上的博物館做了非常多包含百萬學子悠遊博物館包含故宮遊藝司還有移動博物館的教具箱其實這些所有的活動我相信院長你一定非常清楚就是希望讓故宮的典藏故宮的精神故宮的文化"},{"start":11347.256,"end":11374.181,"text":"走進一般人的生活因為博物館要面臨的是所有的觀眾所以我覺得這些事情都非常的重要但是除此之外我們希望故宮可以繼續擴大辦理因為來到現在我們必須要把孩子們目前在學校遇到還有老師們在學校遇到教學的困境我想要跟院長分享108的素養導向課程核心的目標是希望老師可以協助學生發掘問題找到自己不足的地方然後嘗試解決問題這是所謂的素養課程"},{"start":11377.422,"end":11401.589,"text":"數量裡面絕對不會只有從學校從課本上來有更多必須從社會環境還有文化環境當中來那目前我們看到故宮有移動博物館教具箱這個活動可是我們看到相關計畫都只有局限在國中國小有沒有機會可以繼續開發內容讓它延伸到高中甚至是幼兒園擴大故宮的影響力這是第一個部分第二個我剛剛說其實學校老師還有"},{"start":11403.149,"end":11410.294,"text":"高中生國中生國小生他們都很需要認識故宮因為培養年輕的觀眾絕對是故宮很重要的任務所以有沒有機會協助老師辦理增能的課程或者是把相關展覽的內容結合你們有熟悉的學校課程然後讓老師跟讓學生可以在故宮專業的協助下讓他們在學校課程更加豐富"},{"start":11427.125,"end":11451.515,"text":"甚至走進故宮參觀所有的展覽之前孩子們老師們都是已經帶著準備好的現備知識走進故宮不知道這個部分院長您個人的看法是什麼的確那個因為故宮就像個大醫院什麼都要做從那個老的到少的那中間的話的確就是青少年的部分我們過去不只是故宮所有的博物館都漏掉了因為"},{"start":11452.435,"end":11468.834,"text":"大家都認為說那個國高中的話因為要升學所以就讓他們好好念書可是現在的觀念因為多元教學的一個情況已經改變了所以故宮為了處理這一塊的話所以我們成立了兒童暨青少年事務的推動執行委員會"},{"start":11469.855,"end":11490.776,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":11490.916,"end":11491.497,"text":"國立故宮博物院議員"},{"start":11514,"end":11537.023,"text":"這是我們目前都知道已經有的但是我們講的是尤其明年要面對故宮百年這件事情我們認為故宮可以做的更多所以後續我們也會希望除了剛剛院長您所說的要積極進行之外還有更多的事情我相信您剛說的我相信你也認同可以做更多尤其剛剛院長您講到那個親子會我就要跟您請教我們之前在去年的質詢就已經跟院長請教過"},{"start":11538.884,"end":11557.782,"text":"關於親資會委員成員的組成其實是大大的有問題當時院長您給我的回答是說你們可能認為兒童或者是國小生沒有辦法在這樣的場合上適當的發言甚至可能聽不懂你們在說的事情當時您這樣的回答我不知道你記不記得可是讓我印象非常深刻"},{"start":11558.402,"end":11574.724,"text":"但是你就承諾我們說第4屆親資會的委員的聘願程序你們會做一個調整我們看到今天的簡報裡面說課證辦理但是我很好奇你們目前的課證辦理真的把我們之前所提醒的關於未滿18歲兒童這個部分也一起納入了嗎"},{"start":11575.826,"end":11595.912,"text":"根委員報告未滿18歲的是有納入但是兒童沒有納入因為基本上來講的話我們經過評估就是說如果是納入兒童的話的確兒童在整個運作方面的話可能是沒有辦法好院長那我有知道我有答案你剛剛說沒有納入"},{"start":11596.152,"end":11597.613,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":11620.903,"end":11625.968,"text":"當作樣板我覺得這樣的話就沒有必要我覺得院長剛講到一個關鍵如果孩子們沒有適當的訓練跟學習卻是放進會議當中真的很有可能變成樣板而且我們也要必須承認目前確實很多行政機關會把小孩當成樣板但是如果經過適當的訓練跟討論跟學習"},{"start":11639.821,"end":11661.258,"text":"其實很多兒少參與在公共行政事務上院長你一定不知道有非常非常多兒少在各個領域各個行政機關的互動其實都已經有很好的表現甚至目前很多大人們的政策都是來自這些未滿18歲的包含12歲以上的兒童或者是國小端也都有我想要再次跟院長做善意的提醒"},{"start":11661.658,"end":11687.459,"text":"我國當時有簽署CRC兒童權利公約並且我們在2014年台灣已經通過兒童權利公約施行法這裡面提到一個很重要的精神什麼叫兒少表意權並不是說讓他在場合說說話就好這個表意權背後一個非常重要精神就是兒少他可以並且就影響他本身的事物表達他的意見跟權利而且是自由的表達"},{"start":11688.18,"end":11710.732,"text":"因此這個參與我們必須要說真的非常非常的重要當然可能在院長您過去的學術訓練或者是在您的生命經驗當中你可能沒有經驗過類似跟兒少溝通的經驗所以我可以接受你們說你們只是會議討論你們沒有檢討報告也沒有評估報告那是不是可以讓我們進一步的要求你們可不可以再一次去評估甚至"},{"start":11711.092,"end":11711.172,"text":"閱议人員"},{"start":11741.112,"end":11741.253,"text":"最後一個"},{"start":11748.539,"end":11774.051,"text":"關於百年大展我們之前也跟院長您請教過我們從10月份我們從9月份呢院長您來我們辦公室來拜會我們就跟你們提過10月26號的質詢也跟您說過故宮的百年大展必須要有公共化在地化專業化多元化跟國際化跟年輕化到11月29號預算提案的時候當時我們辦公室決定我們可以接受以預算組決議的方法會通過所以我們期待故宮會遵照辦理"},{"start":11775.171,"end":11801.062,"text":"可是我們看到1月份給我們的回覆我整個就是傻眼就是像這個梗圖一樣傻眼到想說為什麼經過三四個月還是一樣的東西不知道院長您手上有沒有你的同仁給我這個回文就在這裡就這樣兩張然後只是告訴我們開了三次會議可是對於會議的內容或者是具體的規劃所謂專業公共在地年輕國際多元這件事情到底故宮的想像是什麼"},{"start":11801.482,"end":11819.005,"text":"我覺得大家都會非常非常期待看到那當然因為今天時間有限而且我猜想故宮可能還有很多事情正在進行討論那如果沒有保密的需求沒有不能先讓大家知道的可能性我們可不可以簡單請院長說明一下包含你們在書面報告中提到何謂故宮100"},{"start":11820.266,"end":11821.687,"text":"請問香港故宮展覽移過來展"},{"start":11847.833,"end":11863.084,"text":"我要說的是其實年輕人沒有不看展喔其實年輕人很願意走進博物館看展走進美術館但是我們辦的展有沒有足夠的吸引力吸引他們我覺得這個是一個很重要的事情那故宮百年這件事情大家所期待的不是看到一個"},{"start":11864.245,"end":11889.422,"text":"老舊的成科的故宮然後只是在把展做一個輪替但是到底我們背後的精神如何跟年輕人對話如何把專業化的精神也呈現出來從此呈現多元國際化公共化在地化其實尤其在地化也非常多立法委員有提到還有關於國際化所以這個部分是不是之後我們可以更加期待故宮的報告因為看起來在今天的書面報告還有剛剛非常多委員的質詢裡面其實我們都看不到"},{"start":11890.242,"end":11890.643,"text":"拜年大展會不會讓大家有點期待落空"},{"start":11908.023,"end":11928.137,"text":"應該不會來,因為跟委員報告一下就是說那個100年的話我們從那個管史然後從那個人物的專訪然後大四季然後一直到展覽的策劃包括文獻商品的規劃基本上來講都在討論之中那這個部分的話當然就是沒有錯我們沒有"},{"start":11928.997,"end":11930.178,"text":"接下來我們請吳春成吳委員"},{"start":11965.135,"end":11966.277,"text":"主席 院長好 請院長謝謝院長"},{"start":11974.193,"end":11999.969,"text":"國務委員早這個院長早辛苦你了我代表民眾黨在教文委員會那這個先說明一下民眾黨是一個講究務實理性科學沒有意識形態的政黨那院長呢這個也被公認是最沒有"},{"start":12001.141,"end":12028.591,"text":"政治包袱的故宮院長所以我想我們應該是可以很能對話的那從剛才這個看到這個很多委員可能對這個故宮對院長這裡提出的一些責難苛求我覺得這是非戰之罪其實這裡就是問題的核心"},{"start":12030.447,"end":12051.975,"text":"所以我是要來幫你的因為為什麼我們有一些核心問題一直不願意面對沒有談好這個核心問題就會有很多的其他問題所以就是我今天的主題是故宮藏品是屬於我們國家的資產嗎?"},{"start":12055.543,"end":12062.612,"text":"請問院長當然是我們國家的資產而且還是世界全人類的資產世界是歸世界我講的是台灣的嗎?"},{"start":12065.42,"end":12089.365,"text":"是台灣的因為我們的財產的話每年都要跟財政部做財產的報告所以故宮這70萬件都是台灣的是很肯定很肯定的這一點因為這一點要肯定以後你後面的整個的經營宗旨目的經營的策略我剛剛看了整份的報告"},{"start":12092.079,"end":12101.711,"text":"其實我是有一點有一點替你們叫屈為什麼呢因為這整份來講其實就是一個博物館的報告"},{"start":12103.271,"end":12126.951,"text":"博物館的報告沒有到故宮國家的這種定位裡面談的不外乎就是網路官網要怎麼展覽倉庫要怎麼管理文物怎麼保管運用資源然後增加他的安全性這就是一個博物館這不是一個國家文化的一個經營者"},{"start":12132.591,"end":12136.058,"text":"這是叫低層次的技術層面的問題那這個技術層面是這個因為上面的定位所以"},{"start":12143.885,"end":12148.829,"text":"問題是,中華文化是我們的嗎?中華文化是我們的,那我等一下你再回答可以有兩種答案,一種是,一種不是"},{"start":12173.486,"end":12196.293,"text":"我先講如果不是的話因為這個跟我們目前文化部的定位好像有一點不太同目前我們台灣主體文化好像不太論述我們是在去中華所以如果中華文化不是我們的那故宮這些寶藏是從哪裡來的這就是外國的那是怎麼來的 是搶來的"},{"start":12200.017,"end":12227.057,"text":"那如果是這樣子的你如果是從這種角度來看那我們看到的故宮就很像阿里巴巴的那個洞穴一樣的就是哇很多的寶藏對不對要進去前還要先喊一個芝麻開門然後那個院長就是阿里巴巴了那裡面珍藏的西式珍寶那這些東西對我們來講是什麼意義是利還是弊"},{"start":12229.424,"end":12231.721,"text":"是利還是弊喔你會想喔"},{"start":12232.932,"end":12261.021,"text":"以前啊 這個大陸啊 很多大陸觀光客來台灣看了以後 看到我們故宮以後 甚感欣慰 為什麼 他們說還好你們把他搬到台灣來 不然的話 我們文化大革命的時候大概都把他砸壞了 所以他是感謝的 為什麼他會感謝 因為他那時候認為兩岸一家親嘛 對不對 所以放在你們這裡 他們不會在乎"},{"start":12263.442,"end":12285.156,"text":"但是我們怎麼看如果兩岸不是一家親的話那你現在14億的大陸人怎麼看故宮在台灣就是他們祖宗的寶物被你搶到台灣來了那這一個"},{"start":12286.226,"end":12286.927,"text":"這個就是從不是的角度"},{"start":12302.133,"end":12324.435,"text":"那我想故宮當然現在應該不是請問院長是是還是不是是中華文化是我們的嗎?中華文化的話是台灣文化中的一個非常重要的一個內涵跟源流這個是無庸置疑的那因為台灣在地的話我們也要尊重原住民族群"},{"start":12325.816,"end":12338.063,"text":"臺灣基本上來講的話除了中華文化之外的話還有原住民文化還有各種不同族群的文化甚至現在的新住民文化當然都是那中華文化的比重在多少"},{"start":12339.967,"end":12358.907,"text":"我不是科學家我沒有辦法計算因為文化的內涵的話沒有辦法用比重在我的管理的脈絡裡面的話那中華文化華夏文化的產品的話當然是在故宮裡面占最重要的地位"},{"start":12363.432,"end":12382.988,"text":"臺灣當然是一個綜合的文化吧不過中華文化應該佔了非常高的比重只是我們現在一直在兩岸對立當中也知道有這些所以在文化論述當中要把它去中化那凸顯臺灣的主體性"},{"start":12386.285,"end":12412.92,"text":"這兩個需要對立嗎?這兩個是融合台灣包括連大陸都認為你繼承了中華文化的正統那我們怎麼看?這裡就是故宮的定位模糊古不古、金不金、中不中、台不台這就是你為什麼會有那麼多困境的原因做什麼都不對白什麼都是人家都有意見"},{"start":12414.702,"end":12425.354,"text":"再來的話昨天的新聞教育部這裡有台美之間的優華語計畫那為什麼人家要來台灣學他來學語也來學文化"},{"start":12426.488,"end":12453.602,"text":"為什麼不去北京學那個自爭槍援的要學那種台灣槍國語我們的國語比較好聽嗎?不是是嗎?所以呢大家把台灣視為華人的文化中正民主的燈塔那這個的概念故宮是一個很重要的核心最後因為我的時間有限我在談的包括我要請問館長你是博物館長還是一個文化的傳承者呢你自己覺得呢?"},{"start":12455.382,"end":12470.087,"text":"我不是從政界出生,我也不是從協界出生我是一個行政出身的行政管理者所以對我來講的話我是博物館館長但我也期待成為一個文化的傳承者"},{"start":12470.532,"end":12480.685,"text":"所以目前你還是把定位自己是一個博物館館長的專業人士當作一個專業人士但是這樣子需要到一個部長級的職務來當博物館館長故宮的地位為什麼到這麼的重要"},{"start":12487.233,"end":12490.115,"text":"最後一個其實整份的這個報告就是技術面的業務報告你們沒有一個"},{"start":12510.385,"end":12525.53,"text":"借文化的高度、文化的戰略報告我要請院長可不可以提出文化交流作為兩岸和平對話的契機故宮可以扮演什麼交流,沒有什麼規劃"},{"start":12526.61,"end":12552.789,"text":"第二個問題是故宮能不能就文化戰略因為你這本都沒有文化戰略只有服務執行項目提出報告可不可以在一個月之內提出提出來這份報告到我們委員會來好報告委員我們嘗試努力嘗試看看但是是不是不要一個月我們三個月可不可以主席要三個月嗎因為"},{"start":12554.554,"end":12577.309,"text":"就由我們委員來決定那折衷一下好不好三個月太久了啦一份這個報告你們這個一個禮拜就可以弄出來了專業人士60年的觀音一個禮拜弄不出來啦不是啦這個不是60年觀音這個就是腦筋想一想就知道其實只要說實話就知道的事情因為我們不一定面對"},{"start":12579.65,"end":12580.33,"text":"我們接下來請范雲范委員"},{"start":12607.361,"end":12610.802,"text":"謝謝趙委有請院長來 院長 謝謝好 院長早安應該叫午安那今天的主題就是要跟您一起檢討我們故宮相關的無障礙參與規劃機制因為無障更有礙文化更平權那我想那個院長應該有聽過這個CRPD這個您知道嗎知道"},{"start":12638.67,"end":12651.503,"text":"國際的身心障礙者權利公約裏面就有講到確保所有人平等享有的人權基本自由然後相關的尊嚴等我們台灣也有身心障礙者權益保障法之前我們俊翰律師過世"},{"start":12658.03,"end":12658.27,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":12677.113,"end":12678.374,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":12692.936,"end":12702.61,"text":"故宮一直在努力,因為故宮把友善共榮列為一個文化平淺的目標。您覺得離平等參與的話大概還要幾年?"},{"start":12709.807,"end":12720.994,"text":"您的努力以目前的速度努力,您講個數字好嗎?總要估計一下嘛因為社會的期待不一樣,它會以時計進,所以沒有那個年限的問題說一定會做好沒有說那個慢慢來欸,就是平等欸,那您估計要幾年?您如果有檢視過的話要幾年?"},{"start":12730.563,"end":12741.427,"text":"沒有檢視過沒有檢視過 這就是問題就是我們根據學者的研究英國的博物館就是說他們自己不管是大英不管是什麼就曾經有檢視過說他們通過相關的修法只有10年才能做到"},{"start":12745.948,"end":12760.361,"text":"表示他有在努力一個中長期計劃嘛那我們其實台灣就是沒有喔那伸賬權益又真的是刻不容緩那我們既有的法規就已經說要保障平等的文化的這個參與權喔那我現在先講兩個因為裡面伸賬權益我剛講的國際公寓有很多但是有兩點跟博物館非常相關的第一個"},{"start":12767.748,"end":12792.869,"text":"深藏者本人充分參與你相關的決策有沒有本人充分參與充分參與的意思是過半的人數第二個合理調整跟增加無障礙的軟硬體設施就你的展覽你的常態跟非常態展要合理調整那這邊是我們最近的記者會就是大家不分黨派都讚賞陳俊翰"},{"start":12794.45,"end":12812.635,"text":"律師的人權努力要繼承他的一致那我希望故宮就是就現在就把它做好那剛剛聽起來故宮那個院長您都承認沒有那個就是說檢視過所以呢我想故宮就是還沒有準備好我已經幫你回答了"},{"start":12813.715,"end":12831.409,"text":"因為故宮我們先不要講其他的博物館嘛我們故宮之前幾任院長都說我們是要做就是說我國博物館的最佳示範那你們都沒有準備好了其他的博物館我們就可以不用問了所以故宮這我幫你回答還沒準備好那個院長您同意吧"},{"start":12832.922,"end":12850.957,"text":"的確我們還有很多精進的空間那今天就是跟您一起討論如何精進那我先以就是我們了解到的有一個我最熟的博物館之前我跟你講過我在英國一年的時候剛好住在V&A附近我天天都去那裡因為他們是免費所以那是另外一件事"},{"start":12851.778,"end":12866.796,"text":"那它裡面這個V&A Museum它就有一個主管專責身心障礙與社會參與的這樣子的一個設計而且還有專門的Manager故宮沒有專人在做這件事吧"},{"start":12867.921,"end":12868.662,"text":"國外博物館的編制人力有多大?"},{"start":12896.935,"end":12911.31,"text":"我們故宮有多少專職的人?VMA有多少?基本上來講的話現在我沒有精確的數據我不敢講我們故宮有多少人您知道吧?"},{"start":12911.732,"end":12916.517,"text":"國立故宮總共預算的原額是489元"},{"start":12932.073,"end":12952.568,"text":"≥≥≥≥≥≥"},{"start":12952.808,"end":12970.878,"text":"這只是其中的就是還有更多的VMA它有觸摸專區就是如果你看不到的你可以來這個專區觸摸那我再講一個別的我們如果不講VMA大英博物館的話它有定時定點提供適合的古文物讓視障者可以觸摸"},{"start":12972.238,"end":12998.615,"text":"還有針對生長者還有可吸式的摺疊椅可以借用這個不需要很多錢嘛這個也都是可以做的所以呢參與跟多元我們就不講了比如跟生長團體合作定期辦專屬於他們的活動等等那這部分如果院長有興趣的話國內已經有人研究出來了我發現這個研究是10年前的然後跟現在的情況差異並沒有很大改善沒有很多"},{"start":12999.355,"end":13025.593,"text":"那所以我想詢問的是聽起來故宮我的答案已經看到了並沒有無障礙環境的整體規劃的機制嘛這個院長您承認嗎並沒有嘛你們偶爾會做一些但是沒有沒有專責的就是說專人負責也沒有一個定期的開會的這個制度設計更沒有因為這樣機制出來的中長期計劃吧院長是不是沒有"},{"start":13026.033,"end":13027.054,"text":"關於無障礙環境的規劃的確是沒有但是這個我們是可以"},{"start":13045.009,"end":13045.729,"text":"網站2.0版無障礙化"},{"start":13065.854,"end":13066.054,"text":"議員發言委員會"},{"start":13084.327,"end":13104.16,"text":"所以我想您剛剛這個部分就代表有一些但是真的沒有一個常態性的機制喔第二個那你們這個無障礙相關的規劃決策機制有沒有做到我想是決策機制喔不是說大家來今天給個意見有做到身障者過半的參與嗎決策機制就決定要怎麼做的"},{"start":13105.5,"end":13105.76,"text":"議員長蕭宗煌列席報告業務概況．"},{"start":13129.585,"end":13131.666,"text":"我們只是還沒有落實在所有的法規中"},{"start":13154.436,"end":13170.247,"text":"那所以這部分努力那我要肯定您剛剛講那個是沒錯啦故宮興建工程的確有邀身障者參與這邊這個照片的確有那就是那個無障礙的通道你們的計畫進行正月核定後"},{"start":13171.007,"end":13185.323,"text":"你們的確有邀請深藏團體參與座談那我也要跟你講深藏團體跟我誠心反映你們應該要在前置作業階段計劃核定前就邀他們了不是核定後"},{"start":13185.964,"end":13187.446,"text":"您剛講的東西的確有值得肯定那我要跟您講身障團體跟我辦公室的詳情跟反應"},{"start":13206.027,"end":13206.047,"text":"院長．"},{"start":13221.146,"end":13239.623,"text":"我想我剛剛已經跟委員回答過了我們馬上會就故宮的所謂的無障礙的一個機制進行一個檢討然後做出一個計畫出來那我很擔心你的檢討是一次性行為那因為時間到了我們就最後一頁所以我要求三件事第一個"},{"start":13240.143,"end":13268.764,"text":"你應該要建立無障礙環境的整體規劃機制你就算現在做不到專人你也告訴我你是兩年三年還是多久可以做到專人因為您是院長您是爭取預算是就是說做的嘛那可不可以你剛講人比你多那你研究一下你們人跟他差多少我們是不是等比例好不好那就是說你們跟他們都有交流嘛問一下他們手下多少人是做這個事第二個就是說如果有這個決策機制的話要確保身障者參與過半"},{"start":13269.625,"end":13270.686,"text":"請問院長幾個月內可以給我提出報告相關的規劃"},{"start":13285.225,"end":13285.745,"text":"接下來我們請楊瓊英委員"},{"start":13306.201,"end":13324.514,"text":"楊瓊瑛委員．楊瓊瑛委員．林德福委員．林德福委員．林德福委員．鍾嘉斌委員．鍾嘉斌委員．鍾嘉斌委員．謝一鳳委員．謝一鳳委員．謝一鳳委員．徐欣盈委員．徐欣盈委員．徐欣盈委員．"},{"start":13326.035,"end":13329.237,"text":"張家俊委員陳亭飛委員麥玉珍委員蘇巧惠委員鄭振淺委員邱志偉委員"},{"start":13355.292,"end":13376.563,"text":"蘇清泉委員蔡奕宇委員關於今天的會議我們做如下的一個決定報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢或是相關的資料我們要列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":13377.583,"end":13390.951,"text":"對於委員質詢要求提供的相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡數以書面的方法來做一個答覆那報告委員會我們今天的議程處理完不現在散會謝謝大家"},{"start":13414.754,"end":13415.835,"text":"委員會主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}