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我覺得很好。我們訪台的方法就了了啦。 沒給水是了了啦。山陀河我們屏東只剩下2億啦。 但是三年前我們屏東的大沒給水也剩下2億。請問喔,對於沒辦法控制我們的天候,我們可以數毫米薄嘛。 靠酒酒、靠保險。 要怎麼讓農民有我們的收入,你要怎麼做?"},{"start":105.018,"end":118.547,"text":"有兩個風險,一個風險就是說,我們要想辦法用比較設施型的這些再別的方式。不然你都聽到我想問你,企業我們沒有改變,但是我們的農水路我們要去修建對不對?是。我們的農業的主宰,我們要補助給他們溫庫對不對?是。所以說農業補助要做這兩項事情嘛。"},{"start":126.733,"end":127.434,"text":"農水到農業主宰給農民會受到穩定增加嗎?"},{"start":127.434,"end":127.575,"text":"是不是這樣?"},{"start":127.575,"end":129.538,"text":"是。好,來我們看一看。好,阿聖望你這個,是生有殘才有水,還是有水才有殘?"},{"start":140.393,"end":168.194,"text":"餐本來就在那裡,水一定要夠,餐才可以工作。不好意思啦,你有餐沒水喔,那餐就是什麼?就沒好東西了啦,對不對?所以說我們有什麼農民不愛做?因為你沒灌白,我農地就沒辦法做農業設施嘛,我整個地方去做光電嘛,對不對?啊不然呢?不然我就去拆地嘛,我每天怎樣?看電線、倒木頭、抽水嘛,是不是這樣?所以沒灌給用水就沒辦法經濟嘛,這是屬性嘛,經濟是不是要灌給用水?"},{"start":169.577,"end":169.777,"text":"發言委員：發言委員："},{"start":190.194,"end":218.521,"text":"這個我們已經5.6萬,已經5.6萬,已經做到,這個已經做到啦。我好像沒在那五萬六千公頃內地的。我們逐年喔。 現在國土紀委發,國土紀委發有給我分說我的農地是有灌白沒灌白,給我分在農、農業、農利,有沒有這樣分?農業跟農利不是這樣分的齁?對啊,不是這樣分的嘛。我分作農業,結果我沒灌白,你要叫我怎麼做農?我們的優先齁,我們對,阿邦對農業的部分,我們的優先齁,去增加他的灌溉的渠道。所以說,"},{"start":219.361,"end":222.304,"text":"我農民我本就農業、為就農利,我是在家裡單年關也會給我做來,還是我要去申請。"},{"start":226.44,"end":250.05,"text":"對於農業部來說,農一、農二都是我們要去照顧的基金,對,都要去做灌牌。農民現在請你請灌牌,你當時做得好,要多久?報告委員,我們有分長期跟短期,如果是他其中比較更做比較完整的地方,我們是用整個系統性來做,如果個別,我們給他每年每戶50萬元的這個設施相關的補助。所以灌牌是農民的農管,保證你要提供最少一項。"},{"start":251.511,"end":257.956,"text":"關於農業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":270.046,"end":270.186,"text":"發言委員：發言委員："},{"start":300.756,"end":308.381,"text":"政府要補償嗎?要補償嗎?根據你剛才說的條例,其實政府應該更加強去做這個農水路的設施。最後兩題啦,說用設施不是人,看施設啦,農業部要提供農地表的建設是這樣嗎?有沒有?"},{"start":323.438,"end":338.684,"text":"請你回去研究農業設施不足、造型、農產不足、沒有收益,你是不是在設施完整進程要補充?拜託,保證回去研究一下可以嗎?我們可以拿回去去研議還有做區會的判斷。好,要多研究一下,1個位、2個位、3個位。這個可能需要一點時間,這個要全國地區的盤點。你說前時間,3個月。3個月好。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":903,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時44分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們陳部長、農糧署姚署長，還有農田水利署蔡署長以及農業金融署的李署長。"],["主席：農業部陳部長、姚署長、蔡署長、李署長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長你好。有水才有田，灌溉設施是農權，缺水利損農益，如何保障農民？我們來看，來請教一下。我們鄉下的老伯常講，「作穡作穡，愈作愈失」，為什麼？為什麼「作穡作穡，愈作愈失」？"],["陳部長駿季：有時候他的田風頭水尾的時候……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，風頭水尾，你說得很好。因為農民看天吃飯，所以現在農民都不做了，對不對？極端的氣候會對農業造成什麼影響？"],["陳部長駿季：經營的不確定性，經營的風險越來越高。"],["鍾委員佳濱：講得很好。颱風下雨下光光，沒雨水死光光，山陀兒我們屏東縣損失2億，但是3年前屏東沒有雨水也損失2億。請問一下，就算無法控制天候，我們也可以事後彌補，靠救助、靠保險，那要怎麼樣讓農民有比較穩定的收入？你要怎麼做？"],["陳部長駿季：兩個方式，一個方式就是我們要想辦法用比較設施型的栽培方式……"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長你都抓到我想問你的，氣候我們沒辦法改變，但是我們的農水路要修建，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：農業資材我們要補助，讓它比較穩固，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以農業部就在做這兩件事，農水路跟農業資材，讓農民的收入穩定增加，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。先問你一下，是先有田才有水，還是有水才有田？"],["陳部長駿季：田本來就在那裡，水一定要夠田才能耕作。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不好意思，你有田沒水，田就沒用了，對不對？所以為什麼我們農民不做？因為如果沒有灌排，農地就沒辦法做農業設施，我乾脆讓人家去做光電，對不對？不然就是自己鑿井，自己牽電線裝馬達抽水，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以沒灌溉用水就沒辦法耕作，這是事實，那耕作是不是要灌溉用水？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你旁邊的農水署長很重要，對不對？是不是這樣？沒灌溉用水，農民就沒辦法耕作了，結果你們說什麼？擴大灌溉服務5萬6,000公頃，農地不分灌區內外都有水用，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：什麼時候做得到？"],["陳部長駿季：這個5.6萬已經做到，這個已經做到了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果它沒有在這5萬6,000公頃裡面呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我們逐年……"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在國土計畫法有分農地是有灌排跟沒灌排，分成特農、農一、農二，有這樣分嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：農一跟農二不是這樣分的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對嘛！不是這樣分的，我分成農一，結果沒有灌排，你要叫我怎麼務農？"],["陳部長駿季：我們對農一的部分，我們會優先去增加它灌溉的渠道。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以農民分到農一或農二，他是在家等你們做好灌排設施，還是他要去申請？"],["陳部長駿季：對農業部來說，農一、農二都是我們要去照顧的地。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們要去做灌排設施，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對，要去做灌排設施。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，署長，問你一下，農民現在申請灌排設施，你什麼時候能做好？要多久？"],["蔡署長昇甫：報告委員，我們有分長期跟短期，如果是耕作比較完整的地方，我們是用整個系統性來做，如果是個別，我們給他每年每戶50萬元的設施相關補助。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以灌排設施是農民的農權，部長，你要聽清楚。"],["陳部長駿季：瞭解。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以灌排設施還沒做好之前，我的田的生產受損失，你看土地稅法第二十二條，在都市裡面的土地，如果在公共設施未完成前，仍作農業用地使用，是沒有課地價稅的，為什麼？比如我是老闆，我要找一塊工廠的地，但是沒道路，我的工廠沒辦法開工，所以我繼續讓它做農業使用，你知道現在要課地價稅嗎？這種的不用課地價稅，因為他是做農業使用，農戶就沒課，所以第二十二條就是說，政府如果沒有做到公設的義務，人民無法運用地利，就要給他補償或是稅金的減免，所以農業設施、農田水利設施沒做好，造成農民生產收益低落，政府要給他補償嗎？要嗎？要有補償嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：依你剛才說的條例裡面，其實政府應該更加強去做農水路的設施。"],["鍾委員佳濱：最後兩題，公共設施不是施捨，農業部要提供農地必要的建設，是不是這樣？有沒有？要嘛！所以請你回去研究，農業設施不足造成農產不足、沒辦法收益，是不是在設施完成之前要補償？拜託部長回去研究一下，可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們會拿回去研議，還有做區位的判斷。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，多久可以答復我？1個月、2個月、3個月？"],["陳部長駿季：可能需要一點時間，這個要全國地區的盤點，我們3個月……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你說一個時間，我等你到……"],["陳部長駿季：3個月。"],["鍾委員佳濱：3個月，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員，部長請回座。下一位質詢請林俊憲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-14","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳超明","楊瓊瓔","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","呂玉玲","鍾佳濱","林俊憲","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張雅琳","蔡易餘"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案附屬單位預算關於農業部主管，非營業部分：農業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金、\n農業特別收入基金及農民退休基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}