{"error":false,"id":["157034"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157034,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157034","日期":"2024-11-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-20-9","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":9,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-18T11:47:48+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-18T11:58:40+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/37ff27132e477e8732d6ee0fc199427306883678c1ed2d0de2d913a09c00f96fb44aa4b1a787b5ac5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"11:47:48 - 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謝謝部長因為這個很重要啊我們看到其實這幾年我們也都被鼓勵"},{"start":577.899,"end":598.119,"text":"生物多樣性、多元文化、文化來附贈但是原住民的文化這一百年來你應該很清楚日本人進來大概就死掉三分之二國民政府再來透過各種的法令我們的文化曾經一度真的是已經業客磨叽了"},{"start":598.88,"end":617.743,"text":"那這幾年很謝謝從2000年以後從陳水扁政府時期非常的重視原住民的文化復正那族群主流化也是賴清德總統很重要的一個政見所有的原住民轉型正義應該要落實到各個部會"},{"start":618.584,"end":634.313,"text":"所以像很多法令的限制那個是掐死我們的命脈所以呢很高興聽到部長您這麼說願意來想辦法研議那我希望這個要有期程要有積極性的作為可以嗎部長謝謝委員好謝謝部長那也請兩個署可以一同的來努力好謝謝主席"},{"start":644.965,"end":652.171,"text":"謝謝吳立法委員可以提案修正菸酒稅法我會支持我們也會提接著"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1041,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（11時47分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：等一下會涉及到國庫署、賦稅署。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好！部長，你有聽過小米酒嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：有啊！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：喝過嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：喝過啊！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好喝嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：不錯喝啊！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：值得推廣嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：值得啊！但是不能喝太多。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，因為不知不覺很容易醉，因為它的酒精濃度還是有的。","這個傳統釀酒文化在接觸我們國民政府的時代，因為酒的取得越來越便宜，越來越方便，所以就失傳，現在很多時候甚至是透過部落大學，大家透過活動、研習、課程等等，來辦理如何製作傳統的小米酒，可是很容易被檢舉，被檢舉之後，很容易就會被開罰。像這個新聞畫面當年很出名的原因是他本身是頭目，按照文化，祭典一定要有頭目親自釀的酒，可是遭人檢舉，那一次祭典的酒全部被帶走，他們耿耿於懷，他們覺得很奇怪，到現在都還沒有還他們！但是我要講的是為什麼會有人檢舉？因為有觸法的問題，那有哪些法呢？舉個例子，像菸酒管理法，還有它的一些相關規定，現在有提到可以私釀自用，它的規範是每戶100公升以下，且供自用，就不罰，但是如果販售，即便未滿100公升，會開罰私釀跟違法販售。要不然你就要去申請製酒業者，所以我們通常就會去找一些有酒牌的，像一般製酒業者、農民或原住民製酒業者，但是因為會涉及到土地的問題、廠房的問題，其實手續很繁複，而且門檻很高，所以通常也不太有人會去做這樣的事情，導致大家通常都必須要去找一些有酒牌的合作，但是利潤很低。我要講的是，它其實是不利於商業化。","我們先講開罰的問題，我剛剛提到的那些，其實大家一直沒弄懂，當有人檢舉，警察來了，我們都不曉得他到底是怎麼認定的，所以我想先請教部長，以前被抓到有私釀、販賣，再犯的話是加倍處罰，現在那個罰則還在嗎？因為我也關心過、質詢過。"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分執行的細節我可不可以請署長來做說明？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝署長。"],["陳署長柏誠：委員好，我們這個都是按照菸酒管理法裡面的規定在處罰，沒有加倍。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那就是稅啊！"],["陳署長柏誠：沒有，不是，稅的部分……"],["宋署長秀玲：報告委員，112年度我們有調查過，因為委員關心這個問題，我們特別去調查，沒有裁罰的案件。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：就是沒有加倍罰？"],["宋署長秀玲：沒有，就是沒有裁罰……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：有些人私釀被抓、被檢舉，他也不過賣個兩瓶，然後他再犯，結果以前是50萬，後來變成100萬。"],["宋署長秀玲：我非常確定我們菸酒稅法112年度沒有裁罰的案件。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那沒關係，先確認一下，因為我有確認過，應該是你們修掉了。我先問一下部長，如果是幫鄰居製作，然後收取工本費，這樣子有沒有違法？"],["莊部長翠雲：法律應該沒有禁止這樣做啊！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：沒有禁止這樣做？"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊，幫鄰居製作。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：再請教一下，如果朋友來到家裡，看到他自製的小米酒，他就想要跟主人說，不要送啦，我補貼你一點成本。這樣算不算販售？違法？"],["莊部長翠雲：他們朋友之間互相的交往，這種情形也不是販售。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：可是有的人會檢舉，說他這個是用賣的嗎？你有沒有給他錢？有，他就檢舉啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：那這個要看實情，我覺得要合乎所謂的情理。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：請問像這種祭典時陳列在那邊的祭典用酒有沒有違法？為什麼他沒收之後也不返還？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，您是不是可以告訴我們實際案例，我們確實去了解一下到底是什麼樣情形，以及引用的是哪一個法規，是不是確實是這樣。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那就再到辦公室，我會把這些案件做一個釐清。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，讓我們瞭解一下。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：為什麼我要這樣子講？因為就是有那個法在，所以就會有人檢舉。有檢舉，但那個認定也不知道怎麼認定，然後就開罰。其實這個是很微薄、很小的事情，可是我們的族人往往會面對很嚴重的罰則跟罰金，說實在，他們來陳情，有時候我們也不知道怎麼幫忙，其實你們這些財稅單位也很同情，可是法就是在那邊，也不知道要怎麼幫忙，而且是很重、很重。","接著是第二個問題，財政部、國庫署、賦稅署可能不覺得你們跟文化有關係，但是其實就是跟文化有關係，因為你們已經變相的去限制文化的發展。我特別來講一下菸酒稅法，我們來看一下第八條有關課稅的規定，啤酒是每公升徵收26元，其他釀酒是每公升按酒精成分每度徵收新臺幣7元，蒸餾酒類的也是每公升每度，再製酒類也是每公升每度，料理酒每公升徵收新臺幣9元，其他酒類每公升每度徵收7元，酒精是每公升徵收15元。所以我們可以看到那個有「每度」的就很可怕了，以一瓶1,000c.c.的小米酒為例，假設它的販售價格一般是賣350元，可是因為它的酒精濃度15%，就變成要課105元的稅金，所以利潤很薄。","我們常常講，文化不應該是只有在博物館裡面的博物館化，我們的文化如果沒有辦法邁向經濟的行為，它就無以為繼。我常常覺得原住民的文化受到很多限制，所以聯合國也一直很重視這個問題。我要講的是，其實我們在很多的協定，像臺紐經濟貿易協定，這個是我們前幾年很重要的第一個國際協定，它就有原住民專章，當然，很多年前我們在吵的米酒之亂，它也是因為WTO的互惠原則，可是我們很認真、很努力的談判，最後談出一個料理酒每公升9元。我要說的是，我們能不能夠也很努力的去為原住民在地的本土文化做一個談判？因為這也是我們的飲食文化，我們也可以用原住民專章的概念去做研議調整。我想聽聽看部長您的看法。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，原住民的文化其實也是生活的一部分，就是他們的日常生活，比如說釀酒也是他們歷史長久以來所存下來的，在這個部分能不能做一些特別性、不同的規範，我想這個部分我們可以研議。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝部長。因為這個很重要，其實這幾年，我們也都被鼓勵生物多樣性、多元文化、文化復振，但是你應該很清楚，這一百年來，原住民的文化在日本人進來後大概就死掉三分之二，國民政府再來，透過各種的法令，我們的文化曾經一度已經是葉克膜級了。這幾年很謝謝，從2000年以後，從陳水扁政府時期非常重視原住民的文化復振，族群主流化也是賴清德總統很重要的一個政見，所有的原住民轉型正義應該要落實到各個部會，像很多法令的限制，這個是掐死我們的命脈，所以很高興聽到部長您這麼說，願意想辦法研議。我希望這個要有期程，要有積極性的作為，部長，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝部長，也請兩個署可以一同來努力，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員，也可以提案修正菸酒稅法，我會支持，我們也會提。","洪孟楷、洪孟楷、洪孟楷不在。","邱志偉、邱志偉、邱志偉不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐不在。","鄭天財、鄭天財、鄭天財不在。","葉元之、葉元之、葉元之不在。","請王世堅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-9","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","李坤城","李彥秀","羅明才","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部賦稅署、臺北國稅局、高雄國稅局、北區國\n稅局及所屬、中區國稅局及所屬、南區國稅局及所屬、關務署及所屬、國有財產署及所屬歲出預\n算部分暨融資財源調度（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310101_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}