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商的幫兇不能助紂為虐所以"},{"start":399.417,"end":411.308,"text":"另外這2180億超過18個月供股行戶貸款給這些二職建商的部分這個部分我要求你也應該"},{"start":413.291,"end":417.375,"text":"請他們積極的想出怎麼樣的方式去追回這些貸款去增加他們的利息額度、抬高額度"},{"start":434.594,"end":459.274,"text":"我逼死建商要不你就規規矩矩開工要不你就把錢還給我們跟銀行戶這樣才對嘛不是嗎另外第二個問題就是說我一直認為我們國家我們這個囤房稅率太低啦你現在把囤房稅率的最高級距你定為4.8那事實上在很多縣市政府齁坦白講"},{"start":463.342,"end":480.003,"text":"有幾個縣市政府齁我用四個字形容啦陽奉陰違啦我們有訂了這個稅率額度但是他們又害怕得罪這些草房族們所以都適度欸"},{"start":481.618,"end":504.33,"text":"多次把他們調降我以新北市做例子新北市2018年把非自用住宅稅率從2.4%降到1.5%新竹縣也是把非自住的住宅稅率從2.5%降到1.6%"},{"start":508.465,"end":524.636,"text":"所以很多地方政府因為不得罪所以就陽奉陰違所以我認為我認為是不是我們應該把稅率基準直接把它入到入法林入到我們定"},{"start":525.979,"end":546.775,"text":"的這個法律稅法裡面直接把它定到法律裡面這個稅率那才不會讓各縣市政府礙於人情礙於各種奇奇怪怪的方式那個部長你知道嗎我們從這5年來啊這5年來我們囤房的人數從45萬增加到54萬這5年來喔囤房的人數"},{"start":558.549,"end":585.009,"text":"456800人2019年到到今年54萬5500人54萬5500人增加了9萬人來加入囤房、草房這是不可思議的事情所以部長現在的高房價現在大家的草房、囤房"},{"start":586.53,"end":596.637,"text":"我個人認為最直接的方式就是從囤房稅我們應該直接立法而且直接提高你幹法呢?"},{"start":598.015,"end":616.781,"text":"跟委員報告這一次房屋稅條例的修正以後把相關的稅率有做一些調整那而且是全國歸戶而且是全數累進如果說他的房屋超過一定的數額的話是每一間都按這個高的稅率來課徵那另外除了稅率之外我們還是要考慮稅基的問題"},{"start":618.001,"end":634.472,"text":"我們也督促各地方政府要去調整他的稅基也就是房屋課稅限制一定要去調如果你的稅率只是稅率調而稅基不去調的話根本達不到這樣的一個加重持有成本的就是說囤房的一個持有成本的這個部分所以這個兩路必須要並進"},{"start":635.593,"end":664.02,"text":"另外因為我們這個囤房稅這個部分是今年7月1號開始實施明年就開單那在整個來看我們會按照他的實施的情形來再做滾動的一個看檢視有沒有要做滾動的檢討其實還沒滾動之前我現在就預見到了就我剛剛跟你講的我認為這個稅率過低你看最高級距4.8而已那比方說像新北市像新竹市他們地方政府擅自"},{"start":665.106,"end":691.706,"text":"去把這個稅率調降基本上就不對啊就違反我們財政部要求的這個精神第一個我們在囤房的部分1.5的部分最主要是它有出租的部分也就是我們鼓勵我有房子除了自住以外我閒置的房子我就要用高的稅率但是如果我出租的話我就用1.5是希望把空的房子釋出來讓房屋的租賃市場有更充足的一個屋源這個部分另外如果說"},{"start":692.426,"end":718.152,"text":"他規定的稅率和行我們財政部有定一個參考的稅率基準如果他沒有按照我們的稅率基準而且比我們這個低的話他如果有稅損的話中央是不給予補貼補助的有些道理但是我把結論跟你講結論是現在我們整體啊我們國家到今年為止空污率5年內的新房屋空污率高達34%"},{"start":721.053,"end":749.304,"text":"每三戶有一戶是空屋所以已經到這樣的地步已經很清楚很明顯的看到有草房族、囤房族他們運用我們稅制上這一部分寬鬆稅率過低他們加緊草房、囤房所以導致真正需要房屋的青年朋友們、生斗小民們"},{"start":752.737,"end":774.129,"text":"這個購屋之徒遙遙無期不打緊現在連租屋都成了大問題所以租屋的部分我下次再跟你談部長我要求你的就是財政部要拿出態度拿出主張而且要堅定堅定的這麼說要求公營航庫對於空地稅"},{"start":775.59,"end":799.748,"text":"對於借故把大量的金額2180億貸款給這些二值高負債建商去買地、養地、圈地這個一定要提出辦法叫他們交出這個報告限期他們要去改善第二點對於貸款給鼠條山兄弟也是要求他們一個月內做出這個報告要不然"},{"start":800.288,"end":801.749,"text":"今天登記的發言的委員都已經詢答完畢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T11:59:25+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T11:59:27.609000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我請部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T11:59:27.609000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T11:59:30.218000+08:00","text":"莊部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T11:59:30.218000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T11:59:32.827000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T11:59:32.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:00:29.747000+08:00","text":"部長，我遍查了很多資料，我發現租賃公司成了惡質建商養地炒房很大的幫兇，本國銀行對租賃公司授信額度3,892億裡面，其中八家公股行庫占了1,359億，而這三大租賃公司、薯條三兄弟占了最大，他們這1,359億裡面非常大的額度是借給這些惡質建商。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:00:30.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:01:30.448000+08:00","text":"依據政府、中央銀行的規定，對於行庫、銀行貸款給建商本來有個限制，就是不能超過當時存款金額的30%，我們有這個限制，但是額外開了一個巧門給薯條三兄弟的時候，薯條三兄弟變成是一個很大的破口，所以我認為這個部分公股行庫責無旁貸，當然財政部也是，因為你們掌管了公股行庫的股份，董事長、總經理都是由財政部派的，你認為這個部分應該怎麼處理？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:01:33.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:01:37.888000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心有關融資租賃公司資金的運用。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:01:38.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:02:09.031000+08:00","text":"也跟委員報告，目前八家公股行庫貸給融資租賃業大概1,100億，目前三大融資租賃公司的貸款餘額是617億，至於剛剛委員所提到的，融資公司如果把錢借給不動產業者的話，就破了銀行法第七十二條之二規定的30%，變成一個漏洞，甚至有沒有可能融資公司另外成立投資公司，然後透過這個投資公司又去貸給不動產業者，確實要非常重視。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:02:09.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:02:24.687000+08:00","text":"這個部分金管會也已經正在處理，對於公股行庫的部分，我們在上個禮拜五還是禮拜四就已經有請他們來，並且告訴他們這個部分要加強查核。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:02:24.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:02:27.549000+08:00","text":"第一個，貸前的加強審核。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:02:27.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:02:43.739000+08:00","text":"第二個，最重要的是貸後管理，也就是它的資金流向要能夠確實去檢核，是不是用在原來貸款的資金用途方面，還是走到另外一個管道去流到不動產，這個部分確實要做加強的檢核，如同委員所說的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:02:43.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:03:03.155000+08:00","text":"貸後的管理追蹤固然重要，但是我覺得他們在貸前沒有受到中央銀行這一條的規範就不對了，因為租賃公司、薯條三兄弟妾身未明，它到底是什麼？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:03:03.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:03:08.459000+08:00","text":"有牌的地下錢莊還是金融機構？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:03:09.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:03:15.145000+08:00","text":"它變成三不管，金管會也管不著它，經濟部只能依公司法來管。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:03:16.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:03:19.396000+08:00","text":"我為什麼提到這個問題非得財政部處理不可？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:03:19.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:03:39.003000+08:00","text":"因為它是公營行庫，其他的民營行庫當然就不關財政部的事，但是公營行庫是財政部掌管公股，而且掌管了他們董事長、總經理的派任，所以你有交辦他們去查察，這一點很好。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:03:39.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:03:46.209000+08:00","text":"但是我希望你給他們一個期限，多久時間內給你一份報告，可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:03:46.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:04:00.063000+08:00","text":"查察它在授信前的管理、貸放與授信後的追蹤，這個部分它要提供一個報告給你，可不可以？","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:04:00.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:04:03.466000+08:00","text":"可以，我們一個月以內提供。好。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:04:05.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:04:36.070000+08:00","text":"我搞不懂的是這些公營行庫有的很規矩，像第一銀行就規規矩矩，彰化銀行也算規矩，我上次就跟你講過我覺得不可思議，像土地銀行是想方設法要把我們公股行庫的錢，這是來自於人民辛辛苦苦的血汗錢、存款，它想方設法硬是要把錢搬給這些惡質建商。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:04:37.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:05:13.483000+08:00","text":"誠如我上個禮拜在講的，中央銀行另外規定貸款給建商購買空地18個月內一定要動工，但是竟然有2,180億這麼龐大的金額，其中有1,100億是由土地銀行貸放的，另外，其他公股加起來也有1,000億資金，縱容給這些惡質建商去買地、養地、圈地。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:05:15.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:05:35.951000+08:00","text":"難怪我們臺灣四處22縣市從臺北市帶頭一路下來，每個縣市的房地產都在大漲，導致我們一般升斗小民買不到房屋，買到房屋的現在也因為高房價變成屋奴。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:05:38.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:06:00.552000+08:00","text":"我們的中產階級本來還有餘裕，大家辛苦的血汗錢都被高房價導致高房貸，全部成為屋奴，所以我們公營行庫不應該當惡質建商的幫兇，不能助紂為虐。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:06:00.552000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:06:04.417000+08:00","text":"委員說得是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:06:04.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:06:16.308000+08:00","text":"另外，公股行庫貸款給這些惡質建商的2,180億中超過18個月的部分，我要求你也應該要求公股行庫對這個部分做出追蹤，然後提供一個報告給財政部，可不可以？","quality":0.344},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:06:16.308000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:06:18.291000+08:00","text":"可以，這個部分我們會繼續追蹤。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:06:18.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:06:48.101000+08:00","text":"請他們積極想出什麼樣的方式能夠追回這些貸款，譬如增加他們的利息額度、抬高額度，逼使建商要不就規規矩矩開工，要不就把錢還給我們的公營行庫，這樣才對嘛！","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:06:48.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:06:49.002000+08:00","text":"不是嗎？是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:06:49.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:07:28.079000+08:00","text":"另外，第二個問題，我一直認為我們國家的囤房稅率太低，現在囤房稅率的最高級距訂為4.8%，事實上，在很多縣市政府，坦白講，有幾個縣市政府我用四個字形容「陽奉陰違」，雖然我們訂定了稅率級距，但是他們又害怕得罪這些炒房族們，所以都多次適度把稅率調降。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:07:28.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:07:58.128000+08:00","text":"我以新北市為例子，新北市2018年把非自用住宅稅率從2.4%降到1.5%；新竹縣也是把非自用住宅稅率從2.5%降到1.6%，很多地方政府為了不得罪，所以就陽奉陰違。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:07:59.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:08:22.928000+08:00","text":"我認為是不是應該把稅率基準直接訂定在稅法裡面，直接把稅率訂定在法律裡面，才不會讓各縣市政府礙於人情、礙於各種奇奇怪怪的理由。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:08:24.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:08:26.371000+08:00","text":"部長，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:08:26.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:09:02.043000+08:00","text":"這五年來囤房人數從2019年的45萬6,800人增加到今年54萬5,500人，增加9萬人加入囤房、炒房，這是不可思議的事情！","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:09:03.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:09:21.617000+08:00","text":"所以部長，現在的高房價就是因為大家炒房、囤房，我個人認為最直接的方式就是從囤房稅著手，應該直接立法，而且直接提高，你的看法呢？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:09:23.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:09:39.100000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這一次房屋稅條例修正以後，有把相關的稅率做了一些調整，而且是全國歸戶、全數累進，如果他的房屋超過一定數額的話，是每一間都按高的稅率來課徵。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:09:39.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:09:59.472000+08:00","text":"另外，除了稅率之外，我們還是要考慮稅基的問題，我們也督促各地方政府要去調整稅基，也就是房屋課稅現值一定要調整，因為如果只是稅率調整，而稅基不去調的話，根本達不到這樣一個加重持有成本，就是囤房的一個持有成本的部分，所以這兩路必須要並進。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:00.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:10:13.136000+08:00","text":"另外，因為我們囤房稅是今年7月1號開始實施，明年就開單，整個來看，我們會按照它實施的情形再做檢視，看有沒有要做滾動的檢討。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:13.136000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:10:14.136000+08:00","text":"滾動檢視？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:13.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:10:15.537000+08:00","text":"其實還沒滾動之前我現在就遇到了……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:15.537000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:10:16.537000+08:00","text":"不是，但是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:16.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:10:16.977000+08:00","text":"就我剛剛跟你講的嘛……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:16.977000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:10:18.617000+08:00","text":"沒有，您剛剛講的……","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:18.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:10:31.627000+08:00","text":"我認為這個稅率過低，你最高級距4.8%而已嘛，比方說像新北市、新竹市，他們地方政府擅自去把這個稅率調降……","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:31.627000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:10:32.627000+08:00","text":"沒有，他們其實是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:32.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:10:37.091000+08:00","text":"這基本上就不對，就違反我們財政部要求的精神，不是嗎？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:37.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:10:54.584000+08:00","text":"不是，第一個，我們在囤房的部分，1.5%最主要是他有出租的部分，也就是我們鼓勵我有房子，除了自住以外，我閒置的房子就要用高的稅率，但是如果我出租的話就用1.5%，希望把空的房子釋出來，讓房屋的租賃市場有更充足的屋源。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:10:56.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:11:08.349000+08:00","text":"另外，如果說它規定的稅率……我們財政部有訂一個參考的稅率基準，如果它沒有按照我們的稅率基準，而且比我們這個低的話，它如果有稅損，中央是不給予補助的，所以這有一個相關的……","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:11:09.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:11:48.661000+08:00","text":"部長，你講的都有些道理啦，但是我把結論跟你講，結論是現在我們國家到今年為止整體的空屋率，5年內的新房屋空屋率高達34%，每3戶有1戶是空屋，已經到這樣的地步，已經很清楚、很明顯的看到有炒房族、囤房族，他們運用稅制上這一部分寬鬆、稅率過低，他們加緊炒房、囤房。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:11:49.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:12:04.080000+08:00","text":"所以導致真正需要房屋的青年朋友們、升斗小民們，購屋之途遙遙無期不打緊，現在連租屋都成了大問題。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:12:05.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:12:13.366000+08:00","text":"租屋的部分，部長，我下次再跟你談，我要求財政部要拿出態度、拿出主張……好，是。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:12:13.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:12:16.208000+08:00","text":"而且要堅定、堅定的這麼走。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:12:16.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:12:36.602000+08:00","text":"要求公營行庫對於空地稅，對於借故把大量的金額兩千一百八十億貸款給這些惡質、高負債建商去買地、養地、圈地，這個一定要提出辦法，叫他們交出這個報告，限期要去改善。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:12:37.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:12:44.728000+08:00","text":"第二點，對於貸款給薯條三兄弟，也是要求他們一個月內做出報告，要不然在中央銀行訂的規範下，薯條三兄弟這些租賃公司會成了最大的破口，好不好？","quality":0.452},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-18T12:12:44.728000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:12:45.728000+08:00","text":"好，是的，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-11-18T12:12:45.728000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:12:46.728000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T12:12:46.728000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:12:47.728000+08:00","text":"謝謝王世堅委員，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T12:12:45.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-18T12:12:46.749000+08:00","text":"今日登記發言的委員都已經詢答完畢，本次會議作如下決議：說明及詢答完畢。","quality":0.469},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T12:12:47.249000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:12:58.391857+08:00","text":"委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料，請財政部於一週內以書面答復，委員另要求期限者，從其所定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T12:12:58.691857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:13:24.406143+08:00","text":"中華民國114年度中央政府總預算，有關財政部賦稅署、臺北國稅局、高雄國稅局、北區國稅局及所屬、中區國稅局及所屬、南區國稅局及所屬、關務署及所屬、國有財產署及所屬歲出預算部分暨融資財源調度，均另擇期繼續審查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T12:13:24.706143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:13:35.849000+08:00","text":"本次會議委員若有相關預算提案，請於11月25日（星期一）中午12點以前，逕送財政委員會議事人員收件。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T12:13:36.149000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:13:48.720429+08:00","text":"本次會議議程已進行完畢，倘有不在場委員補提書面質詢，一併列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請議事人員協助處理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T12:13:49.020429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:13:50.163286+08:00","text":"散會，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-18T12:13:50.463286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-18T12:13:51.606143+08:00","text":"散會（12時14分）","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1086,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（11時59分）謝謝主席，我請部長。"],["主席：莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：部長，我遍查了很多資料，我發現租賃公司成了惡質建商養地炒房很大的幫兇，本國銀行對租賃公司授信額度3,892億裡面，其中八家公股行庫占了1,359億，而這三大租賃公司、薯條三兄弟占了最大，他們這1,359億裡面非常大的額度是借給這些惡質建商。依據政府、中央銀行的規定，對於行庫、銀行貸款給建商本來有個限制，就是不能超過當時存款金額的30%，我們有這個限制，但是額外開了一個巧門給薯條三兄弟的時候，薯條三兄弟變成是一個很大的破口，所以我認為這個部分公股行庫責無旁貸，當然財政部也是，因為你們掌管了公股行庫的股份，董事長、總經理都是由財政部派的，你認為這個部分應該怎麼處理？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員關心有關融資租賃公司資金的運用。也跟委員報告，目前八家公股行庫貸給融資租賃業大概1,100億，目前三大融資租賃公司的貸款餘額是617億，至於剛剛委員所提到的，融資公司如果把錢借給不動產業者的話，就破了銀行法第七十二條之二規定的30%，變成一個漏洞，甚至有沒有可能融資公司另外成立投資公司，然後透過這個投資公司又去貸給不動產業者，確實要非常重視。這個部分金管會也已經正在處理，對於公股行庫的部分，我們在上個禮拜五還是禮拜四就已經有請他們來，並且告訴他們這個部分要加強查核。第一個，貸前的加強審核。第二個，最重要的是貸後管理，也就是它的資金流向要能夠確實去檢核，是不是用在原來貸款的資金用途方面，還是走到另外一個管道去流到不動產，這個部分確實要做加強的檢核，如同委員所說的。"],["王委員世堅：貸後的管理追蹤固然重要，但是我覺得他們在貸前沒有受到中央銀行這一條的規範就不對了，因為租賃公司、薯條三兄弟妾身未明，它到底是什麼？有牌的地下錢莊還是金融機構？它變成三不管，金管會也管不著它，經濟部只能依公司法來管。我為什麼提到這個問題非得財政部處理不可？因為它是公營行庫，其他的民營行庫當然就不關財政部的事，但是公營行庫是財政部掌管公股，而且掌管了他們董事長、總經理的派任，所以你有交辦他們去查察，這一點很好。但是我希望你給他們一個期限，多久時間內給你一份報告，可不可以？查察它在授信前的管理、貸放與授信後的追蹤，這個部分它要提供一個報告給你，可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：可以，我們一個月以內提供。"],["王委員世堅：好。我搞不懂的是這些公營行庫有的很規矩，像第一銀行就規規矩矩，彰化銀行也算規矩，我上次就跟你講過我覺得不可思議，像土地銀行是想方設法要把我們公股行庫的錢，這是來自於人民辛辛苦苦的血汗錢、存款，它想方設法硬是要把錢搬給這些惡質建商。誠如我上個禮拜在講的，中央銀行另外規定貸款給建商購買空地18個月內一定要動工，但是竟然有2,180億這麼龐大的金額，其中有1,100億是由土地銀行貸放的，另外，其他公股加起來也有1,000億資金，縱容給這些惡質建商去買地、養地、圈地。難怪我們臺灣四處22縣市從臺北市帶頭一路下來，每個縣市的房地產都在大漲，導致我們一般升斗小民買不到房屋，買到房屋的現在也因為高房價變成屋奴。我們的中產階級本來還有餘裕，大家辛苦的血汗錢都被高房價導致高房貸，全部成為屋奴，所以我們公營行庫不應該當惡質建商的幫兇，不能助紂為虐。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員說得是。"],["王委員世堅：另外，公股行庫貸款給這些惡質建商的2,180億中超過18個月的部分，我要求你也應該要求公股行庫對這個部分做出追蹤，然後提供一個報告給財政部，可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：可以，這個部分我們會繼續追蹤。"],["王委員世堅：請他們積極想出什麼樣的方式能夠追回這些貸款，譬如增加他們的利息額度、抬高額度，逼使建商要不就規規矩矩開工，要不就把錢還給我們的公營行庫，這樣才對嘛！不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["王委員世堅：另外，第二個問題，我一直認為我們國家的囤房稅率太低，現在囤房稅率的最高級距訂為4.8%，事實上，在很多縣市政府，坦白講，有幾個縣市政府我用四個字形容「陽奉陰違」，雖然我們訂定了稅率級距，但是他們又害怕得罪這些炒房族們，所以都多次適度把稅率調降。我以新北市為例子，新北市2018年把非自用住宅稅率從2.4%降到1.5%；新竹縣也是把非自用住宅稅率從2.5%降到1.6%，很多地方政府為了不得罪，所以就陽奉陰違。我認為是不是應該把稅率基準直接訂定在稅法裡面，直接把稅率訂定在法律裡面，才不會讓各縣市政府礙於人情、礙於各種奇奇怪怪的理由。部長，你知道嗎？這五年來囤房人數從2019年的45萬6,800人增加到今年54萬5,500人，增加9萬人加入囤房、炒房，這是不可思議的事情！所以部長，現在的高房價就是因為大家炒房、囤房，我個人認為最直接的方式就是從囤房稅著手，應該直接立法，而且直接提高，你的看法呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，這一次房屋稅條例修正以後，有把相關的稅率做了一些調整，而且是全國歸戶、全數累進，如果他的房屋超過一定數額的話，是每一間都按高的稅率來課徵。另外，除了稅率之外，我們還是要考慮稅基的問題，我們也督促各地方政府要去調整稅基，也就是房屋課稅現值一定要調整，因為如果只是稅率調整，而稅基不去調的話，根本達不到這樣一個加重持有成本，就是囤房的一個持有成本的部分，所以這兩路必須要並進。另外，因為我們囤房稅是今年7月1號開始實施，明年就開單，整個來看，我們會按照它實施的情形再做檢視，看有沒有要做滾動的檢討。"],["王委員世堅：滾動檢視？其實還沒滾動之前我現在就遇到了……"],["莊部長翠雲：不是，但是……"],["王委員世堅：就我剛剛跟你講的嘛……"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，您剛剛講的……"],["王委員世堅：我認為這個稅率過低，你最高級距4.8%而已嘛，比方說像新北市、新竹市，他們地方政府擅自去把這個稅率調降……"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，他們其實是……"],["王委員世堅：這基本上就不對，就違反我們財政部要求的精神，不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：不是，第一個，我們在囤房的部分，1.5%最主要是他有出租的部分，也就是我們鼓勵我有房子，除了自住以外，我閒置的房子就要用高的稅率，但是如果我出租的話就用1.5%，希望把空的房子釋出來，讓房屋的租賃市場有更充足的屋源。","另外，如果說它規定的稅率……我們財政部有訂一個參考的稅率基準，如果它沒有按照我們的稅率基準，而且比我們這個低的話，它如果有稅損，中央是不給予補助的，所以這有一個相關的……"],["王委員世堅：部長，你講的都有些道理啦，但是我把結論跟你講，結論是現在我們國家到今年為止整體的空屋率，5年內的新房屋空屋率高達34%，每3戶有1戶是空屋，已經到這樣的地步，已經很清楚、很明顯的看到有炒房族、囤房族，他們運用稅制上這一部分寬鬆、稅率過低，他們加緊炒房、囤房。所以導致真正需要房屋的青年朋友們、升斗小民們，購屋之途遙遙無期不打緊，現在連租屋都成了大問題。租屋的部分，部長，我下次再跟你談，我要求財政部要拿出態度、拿出主張……"],["莊部長翠雲：好，是。"],["王委員世堅：而且要堅定、堅定的這麼走。要求公營行庫對於空地稅，對於借故把大量的金額兩千一百八十億貸款給這些惡質、高負債建商去買地、養地、圈地，這個一定要提出辦法，叫他們交出這個報告，限期要去改善。第二點，對於貸款給薯條三兄弟，也是要求他們一個月內做出報告，要不然在中央銀行訂的規範下，薯條三兄弟這些租賃公司會成了最大的破口，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，是的，謝謝委員。"],["王委員世堅：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王世堅委員，謝謝部長。","今日登記發言的委員都已經詢答完畢，本次會議作如下決議：說明及詢答完畢。委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料，請財政部於一週內以書面答復，委員另要求期限者，從其所定。","中華民國114年度中央政府總預算，有關財政部賦稅署、臺北國稅局、高雄國稅局、北區國稅局及所屬、中區國稅局及所屬、南區國稅局及所屬、關務署及所屬、國有財產署及所屬歲出預算部分暨融資財源調度，均另擇期繼續審查。","本次會議委員若有相關預算提案，請於11月25日（星期一）中午12點以前，逕送財政委員會議事人員收件。","本次會議議程已進行完畢，倘有不在場委員補提書面質詢，一併列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請議事人員協助處理。散會，謝謝。","散會（12時14分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-9","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","李坤城","李彥秀","羅明才","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部賦稅署、臺北國稅局、高雄國稅局、北區國\n稅局及所屬、中區國稅局及所屬、南區國稅局及所屬、關務署及所屬、國有財產署及所屬歲出預\n算部分暨融資財源調度（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310101_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}