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內容我們知道這個內容好 院長跟部長知道"},{"start":51.335,"end":72.732,"text":"這裡面呢特別提到臺灣要發展綠電但是因為綠電蟑螂橫行審查礦日廢時所以我們風電光電的進度都大大落後把業者逼到玩不下去了所以呢在這個報導裡面看到沒有"},{"start":76.26,"end":98.321,"text":"《金週刊》訪問了好多家的這些綠電業者包含外商甚至提到千萬別去台灣裡面有一些這個粗黑的標題給院長和部長看一下一手好牌如今被你們的政府黑到和過於民粹的社會打成一團亂泥"},{"start":100.267,"end":124.619,"text":"拍一段不久前我看到臺灣官員說綠電不夠可以在別國設廠用海底電纜送回臺灣這件事已經在全世界成為笑柄這裡面的報導極為驚悚把過去我們非常多的大家提出來的建議還有大家聽到的一些事情他透過幾個綠電業者的訪問"},{"start":127.25,"end":133.667,"text":"我想金周刊大家也知道他的負責人叫做謝金河先生也算是民進黨政府的國師級的"},{"start":136.028,"end":161.164,"text":"這不是你們所說的統派媒體或者還是說你們說這個是在認知作戰所以這裡面還特別談到我們現在呢一堆的弊案甚至呢其實包含我們的檢察官也在做調查但是很多業者敢怒不敢言不敢檢舉所以如果我們的綠店爛成這樣子"},{"start":164.382,"end":187.035,"text":"請問一下院長你要不要辦怎麼辦好這件事情我們跟委員同樣的重視所以看到這個報導之後我們正式的就請檢調單位能夠去查查的結果告訴我們說這個案子是多年以前的案子當事人離開台灣而且"},{"start":187.535,"end":211.058,"text":"只有週刊他也不便透露當事人是誰但即使如此他裡面不是只有一家他裡面大概有六家還有本土還有台灣的上市公司還有台灣的上市公司裡面提到的案情啊真的讓人覺得很驚悚啊是的沒錯只要來做綠能或者是想要跟地方政府想要打通關"},{"start":212.139,"end":223.884,"text":"她說不是啊你做不做得到是你有沒有給錢所以院長你在這邊能不能夠來做一個承諾如果今天台灣要發展綠能而會有這樣綠電蟑螂橫行"},{"start":227.987,"end":246.499,"text":"然後現在連政府他說連白道都不管了很多業者甚至呢員工還不敢從正門上班到從後門上班因為一些黑道天天在他們門口有這些的事件我們是不是要辦到底否則的話我們這些綠能怎麼推展的下去"},{"start":247.423,"end":274.588,"text":"是的沒錯這件事情雖然我們剛剛我說的那一段但是我們的檢調單位還是持續的已經成為一個專案在處理這個事情那因為是不是能夠盡快的來有一個明顯的答案出來我們當然還在努力不過針對這個部分我們八月份我們講的四個原則就是要過程要透明程序要簡化要設立一個檢舉的平台中央地方要合作"},{"start":275.228,"end":292.544,"text":"那之後我們要做的三樣我剛剛已經報告過了第一個有爭議的土地太小的土地不要開發不要造成人民的困擾第二個呢廠商的責任只在完成這些工作幫助我們政策不要給他太多的麻煩公權力進去最後一個農民的權利要照顧否則變成無政府狀態沒錯沒錯另外"},{"start":297.308,"end":326.246,"text":"在他的報告裡面也特別提到所謂的他三之十他說比如日本他們有個規定就是6週內搞定他們有很透明明確的也就是說對於很多的外商來講他到了台灣他沒有辦法處理黑道的問題他沒有辦法處理民代勒索的問題他也沒有辦法處理政府的效率不彰整個這樣的一個流程幾年也都不知道所以"},{"start":326.886,"end":343.895,"text":"我想國務長在這邊我們能不能未來把這些綠能的標準時程做一個可以以招公信的不然的話你不可能讓民眾去處理讓業者去處理這麼多應該政府處理的事情可不可以報告委員"},{"start":345.916,"end":360.769,"text":"這個部分我們現在正在進行中央跟地方政府能夠建立一個平台我們應該在年底之前就可以出爐年底之前把這個平台把這個流程這個SOP建立起來可不可以是 可以"},{"start":361.389,"end":384.21,"text":"所以今天我們討論是1000億追加預算我們在之前也談到為什麼國會要成立調查委員會為什麼要舉行聽證會等等我們當時就說光電閉案就是很主要的一個目標所以如果現在連民進黨國師他所主持的《金週刊》"},{"start":385.251,"end":413.71,"text":"都告訴你有這麼多的弊端請問那一千億我擔心的是你看起來一千億好像是在補貼台電我怎麼知道他不是去補貼這些綠能蟑螂呢所以我要請院長和部長把這些全部建立起來否則的話請問我我真的不會同意你們一千億啦我很擔心啊這一千億變成為蟑螂的這些資源我們不能為蟑螂"},{"start":415.371,"end":438.024,"text":"另外我想請問一下在上一次的我們能源的專案報告的時候牛許廷委員曾經要求院長就是和部長就是對於未來台電應該做出4年的財務規劃院長有同意對不對是的部長有沒有同意"},{"start":439.264,"end":466.085,"text":"我沒有直接收到這樣的訊息不過我認為這是應該的應該的好那部長你也是上市公司的老闆所謂四年的財務規劃應該要有包含哪些財務規劃對當然就是包括他的這個資產的盤點啊然後他有多少你想像中如果台電要做出財務規劃應該要有多少這個paper應該應該是厚厚一疊吧"},{"start":467.257,"end":493.228,"text":"大概三個表可以表現一個資產負債表一個現金表資產負債現金表三張表可以表現一下公司這個是會計上面的原則好 那我就給你看一下這個是昨天牛許廷委員跟我說他收到了台電的財務規劃表來看看什麼表 什麼表都沒有什麼現金表 什麼通都沒有"},{"start":494.894,"end":514.27,"text":"兩張A4的紙還沒寫完大概一千字算起來不到一千字因為當時牛許廷委員就說你們要追加預算你們明年還要編列撥補的預算所以他會看到比較長期一點的台電的財務規劃結果昨天他收到了是收到這樣子"},{"start":515.916,"end":533.895,"text":"我們叫做我們助理說這是一字千金阿我說哪裡一字千金一字值一億阿對不對我們公司今年就要追加一億阿一千億阿不到一千字給我要求要一千億阿部長如果你是董事長"},{"start":534.736,"end":562.336,"text":"你的員工給你這個報告你是不是就啪一下丟出去啊重做啊公務機構跟這個一般的在我們外面的公司確實是靠三張表在表達一個公司的報告台電不是公司嗎我不知道這個公務上面應該是怎麼樣的抱歉這部分我沒有那麼熟悉不過您剛所質詢的這個所以呢所垂詢的這部分呢我們回去會準備資產負債表現金流量表跟損益表"},{"start":563.363,"end":576.337,"text":"對嘛起碼所謂的財務規劃齁你自己也是上市公司老闆台電可以這樣唬人嗎這一千億喔怎麼給我想問怎麼給喔實在是很離譜的事情啊另外我要請教部長啊"},{"start":581.311,"end":607.962,"text":"不想你之前說因為本來坊間說在美國總統大選之後川普會要求台積電把兩奈米的製程搬到台積電你當時怎麼說我認為這個事情我們台灣當然有N-1的規定也就是說最新的製程必須在台灣已經完備了以後才可以往外走"},{"start":608.803,"end":635.208,"text":"那你現在態度變了嗎這個也是合理這個也是合理的啦也就是說我到美國去台積電到美國是百分之百的公司所以他去那邊不是要去虧錢的他去那邊能讓還是要賺錢所以他如果沒有一個很完備可以賺錢的模式他出去是不可能的好那所以現在呢媒體開始報導最新的報導說"},{"start":636.926,"end":645.796,"text":"台積電亞利桑那三廠已經看到A16 1.6米的製程奈米的製程"},{"start":648.493,"end":667.194,"text":"他不是一個報告就可以決定這個公司將來做了以後會不會賺錢我要請問其實我們非常擔心的就是掏空台積電在台積電不能被日積電掏空也不能被美積電掏空所以部長我再問一次"},{"start":667.614,"end":688.352,"text":"你過去所說的台灣有N加2製程相關規定如果規定沒有改那台積電兩奈米以下的就不能夠到海外去你這樣的說法跟立場還在嗎當然在還在我跟委員報告一個半導體的製程沒有那麼容易可以往外送"},{"start":690.702,"end":702.328,"text":"所以現在如果台積電要在美國做1.6奈比如果我們台灣沒有解封的話我們沒有解除這個限制的話美積電是不可以做的不是"},{"start":703.188,"end":724.123,"text":"我的意思是說我跟委員講的意思是說他去是要能夠賺錢他不可能把一個很生疏的技術往那邊走這個是大家都可以了解我想委員如果你是董事長你也不會說讓這個一個去到美國然後虧錢允許他去進行這樣的一個計畫"},{"start":725.604,"end":738.187,"text":"台積電要賺錢但是台灣要保留技術這是非常基本的另外一個議題因為現在要質詢那個院長部長這越來越難了我們在美國總統大選之後請問一下台美21世紀倡議的相關的談判已經結束了嗎"},{"start":752.781,"end":773.436,"text":"還在進行當中我直接的請教這個院長我現在聽到一個訊息也就是美國因為一直在檢討我們有關於對美牛跟美豬的這個台灣進口的一些障礙所以呢現在美國要求我們要進口"},{"start":774.312,"end":785.879,"text":"美國牛角肉而我們現在聽說賴總統已經答應有沒有這個事情美國牛角肉跟委員應該清楚齁"},{"start":787.656,"end":803.225,"text":"21世紀臺美的貿易倡議他第二階段有環境、農業、勞工三個方向在走我們持續在階段性的進行那前一段時間說真的美國大選美國大選期間雙方接觸是停下來比較多的時間並沒有實質上的在進展"},{"start":806.291,"end":820.237,"text":"所以你也沒有否認我們已經準備進口韓國牛絞肉前一段時間因為美國大選所以談判結束是停下來的目前沒有談到我聽到的都很明確我希望讓院長因為等到時候你們也是一定要公佈的不要在這邊迴避問題第二個"},{"start":824.96,"end":842.112,"text":"美國的豬肾豬肾的來季容許值現在是0.14ppm我們也已經同意把美豬豬肾來季的容許值提高一倍有沒有"},{"start":843.608,"end":862.58,"text":"請問委員這個資料是從哪裡來的我們沒有看過這樣的一個命題沒有 我就問院長有沒有嗎沒有 沒有這樣的一個數據放在前面說我們要討論這樣的意思沒有這樣的數據美國 要開放美國牛角肉跟提高美國出生的萊劑PPF都沒有"},{"start":863.995,"end":883.238,"text":"前一段的接觸是停下來是沒有在討論實質內容的但是台灣身為一個國際社會的議員當然在國際的標準底下我們可以跟其他國家做很多的交流我還是要講因為美國的新任政府他現在在任命一些部長"},{"start":884.807,"end":913.4,"text":"我們還是要為我們的食安把關好不好當然我知道美國的壓力很強大但是我們要為食安把關另外剩下一點點時間因為剛才啊國際的標準就是台灣的標準這樣子一定會食安把關我們應該更嚴格啊如果按照美國的標準不得了啊世界的標準國際的標準我說國際的標準那就代表你要開了嘛對不對不是我說剛剛委員是說要為食安把關我說我們跟國際是同步的"},{"start":913.848,"end":927.243,"text":"另外我要回應一下剛才那個我們副總召跟我們的部長有一點口角但是我必須說因為部長其實政務官在公職人員這個財產申報裡面"},{"start":977.911,"end":982.294,"text":"主席鄭天財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":506,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時49分）謝謝主席，我請卓院長還有經濟部郭部長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長、經濟部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長好、部長好。我們現在要全力發展綠電，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，多元發展綠能。"],["王委員鴻薇：應該是上週的今周刊，不曉得院長和部長有沒有看到？當中談到綠電棄嬰，其實這篇文章的電子版在網路上瘋傳，院長和部長看過內容嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道這個內容。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長和部長知道。這裡面特別提到臺灣要發展綠電，但因為綠電蟑螂橫行，審查曠日廢時，導致風電、光電進度大大落後，把業者逼到玩不下去了。在這篇報導裡，今周刊訪問了好多家綠電業者，包含外商在內，當中甚至提到千萬別去臺灣！這裡面有些粗黑的標題，給院長和部長看一下：「一手好牌，如今被你們的政府、黑道和過於民粹的社會打成一攤爛泥」，還有一段：「不久前我看到台灣官員說，綠電不夠，可以在別國設廠，用海底電纜送回台灣，這件事已經在全世界成為笑柄」。這裡面的報導極為驚悚，把過去大家提出來非常多的建議，還有大家聽到的一些事情，透過幾個綠電業者的訪問……我想大家都知道今周刊的負責人是謝金河先生，也算是民進黨政府國師級的人物，不是你們所說的統派媒體，還是你們要說這是在認知作戰？這裡特別談到，現在一堆的弊案，雖然檢察官也在調查，但很多業者仍敢怒不敢言、不敢檢舉！我們的綠電爛成這樣子，請問院長，你要不要辦？怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：這件事情我們跟委員同樣地重視，所以看到這個報導之後，我們正式請檢調單位去查，查的結果告訴我們，這是多年以前的案子，當事人已離開臺灣，且週刊也不便透露當事人是誰。但即使如此……"],["王委員鴻薇：裡面不是只有一家……"],["卓院長榮泰：對、對。"],["王委員鴻薇：裡面大概有六家，還有本土、還有臺灣的上市公司……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們得到的訊息差不多……"],["王委員鴻薇：還有臺灣的上市公司。"],["卓院長榮泰：但即使如此……"],["王委員鴻薇：裡面提到的案情真的讓人覺得很驚悚！"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，沒錯。"],["王委員鴻薇：只要來做綠能，就要跟地方政府打通關，他說問題不在你做不做得到，而是你有沒有給錢！所以院長，你能不能承諾？臺灣要發展綠能，卻有綠電蟑螂橫行，現在連政府、連白道都不管，很多業者的員工甚至不敢從正門上班，都要從後門上班，因為一些黑道天天在他們門口！有這些事件，我們是不是要辦到底，否則我們的綠能怎麼推展得下去？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，沒錯。這件事情雖然我剛剛說了那一段，但檢調單位還是持續調查，且已經成立專案在處理，至於是不是能儘快有明顯的答案出來，我們當然還在努力。針對這部分，8月份時我們講了四個原則，就是過程要透明、程序要簡化、要設立檢舉平臺、中央地方要合作。之後我們又做了三樣，我剛剛已經報告過了：第一，有爭議的土地、太小的土地不要開發，不要造成人民的困擾；第二，廠商的責任只在完成這些工作，幫助我們的政策，不要給它太多的麻煩，讓公權力進去……"],["王委員鴻薇：公權力一定要進來……"],["卓院長榮泰：最後一個，農漁民的權益要照顧……"],["王委員鴻薇：否則會變成無政府狀態！"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯、沒錯。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外，在報導裡也特別提到所謂的他山之石，比如日本規定六週內搞定，他們的規定是很透明、很明確的。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：對於很多的外商來講，他來到臺灣，他沒有辦法處理黑道問題，他沒有辦法處理民代勒索的問題，也沒有辦法處理政府效率不彰問題，甚至連整個流程要幾年都不知道！郭部長在這邊，我們能不能未來把這些綠能的標準時程做一個可以以昭公信的，不然的話，你不可能讓業者去處理這麼多政府應該處理的事情，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：程序的問題……"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個部分我們現在正在進行中央跟地方政府能夠建立一個平台……"],["王委員鴻薇：什麼時候出爐？什麼時候？"],["郭部長智輝：我們應該在年底之前就可以出爐。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：年底之前把這個平台、這個流程、這個SOP建立起來，可不可以？"],["郭部長智輝：是，可以。"],["王委員鴻薇：今天我們討論的是1,000億追加預算，我們在之前也談到為什麼國會要成立調查委員會、為什麼要舉行聽證會等等，我們當時就說光電弊案就是很主要的目標，所以如果現在連民進黨國師所主持的今周刊都告訴你有這麼多的弊端，對於這1,000億，我擔心的是看起來這1,000億好像是在補貼台電，但我怎麼知道它不是去補貼這些綠能蟑螂呢？所以我要請院長和部長把這些全部建立起來，否則的話，我真的不會同意你們的1,000億啦！因為我很擔心這1,000億會變成餵蟑螂的資源，我們不能餵蟑螂！","另外，我想請問一下，在上一次能源專案報告的時候，牛煦庭委員曾經要求院長和部長，未來台電應該做出4年的財務規劃，院長有同意，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長有沒有同意？"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有直接收到這樣的訊息，不過我認為這是應該的。"],["王委員鴻薇：應該的？好，部長，你也是上市公司的老闆，所謂4年的財務規劃應該要包含哪些？"],["郭部長智輝：財務規劃？"],["王委員鴻薇：對。"],["郭部長智輝：當然就是包括它的資產盤點，它有多少……"],["王委員鴻薇：你想像中如果台電要做出財務規劃，應該要有多少？paper應該是厚厚一疊吧？"],["郭部長智輝：大概三個表可以表現，一個資產負債表，一個現金表，還有一個損益表……"],["王委員鴻薇：資產負債表、現金表，還有什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：三張表可以表現一家公司啦，這是會計上面的原則。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，那我就給你看一下，這個是昨天牛煦庭委員跟我說，他收到了台電的財務規劃表，來看看，什麼表、什麼表都沒有，什麼現金表統統都沒有，兩張A4的紙還沒寫滿，大概1,000字，算起來不到1,000字。當時牛煦庭委員提到，你們要追加預算，明年還要編列撥補的預算，所以他要看到台電比較長期一點的財務規劃，結果昨天他收到了，是收到這樣子的資料，我們助理說這是一字千金，我說哪裡一字千金，一字值1億啊！對不對？光是今年就要追加1,000億啊，不到1,000字，要求要1,000億！部長，如果你是董事長，你的員工給你這個報告，你是不是就「啪」一下丟出去啊！要他重做啊！"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，公務機構跟一般我們外面的公司確實是靠三張表在表達一家公司的狀況。"],["王委員鴻薇：台電不是公司嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我不知道這個在公務上面應該是怎麼樣，抱歉，這一部分我沒那麼熟悉，不過您剛才所質詢的這個……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以呢？"],["郭部長智輝：您剛才所垂詢的這部分，我們回去會準備，包括資產負債表、現金流量表跟損益表。"],["王委員鴻薇：對嘛，起碼所謂的財務規劃，你自己也是上市公司的老闆，台電可以這樣唬人嗎？這1,000億怎麼給？我想問怎麼給？實在是很離譜的事情啊！","另外，我要請教部長，本來坊間說在美國總統大選之後，川普會要求台積電把2奈米的製程搬到美國，你當時怎麼說？"],["郭部長智輝：我認為這個事情喔，我們臺灣當然有N-1的規定，也就是說，最新的製程必須在臺灣已經完備了以後才可以往外走，這個……"],["王委員鴻薇：那你現在態度變了嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：這個也是合理的啦，也就是說台積電到美國是百分之百的公司，它去那邊不是要去虧錢的，它去那邊仍然還是要賺錢，所以它如果沒有一個很完備可以賺錢的模式，出去是不可能的。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，現在媒體最新的報導是台積電亞利桑那三廠已經看到A16技術1.6奈米的製程，部長知道嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，它不是一個報告就可以決定這個公司將來做了以後會不會賺錢。"],["王委員鴻薇：我要請問，其實我們非常擔心的就是掏空台積電，台積電不能被日積電掏空，也不能被美積電掏空，所以部長，我再問一次，你過去所說的，臺灣有N+2製程相關規定，如果規定沒有改，台積電2奈米以下的就不能夠到海外去，你這樣的說法跟立場還在嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：當然在。"],["王委員鴻薇：還在？"],["郭部長智輝：我跟委員報告，一個半導體的製程沒有那麼容易可以往外走啦，這個我經常在講……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以現在如果台積電要在美國做1.6奈米，如果我們臺灣沒有解封的話，我們沒有解除這個限制的話，美積電是不可以做的？"],["郭部長智輝：不是，我的意思是說……"],["王委員鴻薇：喔，不是？不可以？"],["郭部長智輝：我跟委員講的意思是說，它去是要能夠賺錢，它不可能把一個很生疏的技術往那邊走，這個是大家都可以了解的。委員，如果你是董事長，你也不會讓它去到美國，然後虧錢，允許它去進行這樣的計畫嘛，那將來要做什麼，當然大家都可以講……"],["王委員鴻薇：台積電要賺錢，但是臺灣要保留技術，這是非常基本的。","另外一個議題，因為現在要質詢院長、部長越來越難了。在美國總統大選之後，請問臺美21世紀貿易倡議的相關談判已經結束了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：還在進行當中。"],["王委員鴻薇：還在進行當中，我直接請教院長，我現在聽到一個訊息，也就是美國一直在檢討我們有關於對美牛跟美豬進口臺灣的一些障礙，所以現在美國要求我們要進口美國牛絞肉，我們聽說賴總統已經答應，有沒有這個事情？美國牛絞肉。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員應該清楚，21世紀臺美貿易倡議第二階段有環境、農業、勞工這三個方向在走，我們持續階段性在進行，前一段時間說真的……"],["王委員鴻薇：我只問你美國牛絞肉。"],["卓院長榮泰：美國大選期間，雙方接觸是停下來比較多的時間，並沒有實質上的進展。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你也沒有否認我們已經準備進口美國牛絞肉？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，就前一段時間因為美國大選，所以談判、接觸是停下來的，目前還沒有談到。"],["王委員鴻薇：第二個問題，我聽到都很明確，我希望院長，因為到時候你們也是一定要公布的，不要在這邊迴避問題。","第二個，美國豬腎的萊劑容許值現在是0.04ppm，我們也已經同意把美豬豬腎的萊劑容許值提高一倍，有沒有？"],["郭部長智輝：請問委員，這個資料是從哪裡來的？我們沒有看過這樣的一個命題。"],["王委員鴻薇：我就問院長有沒有嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是啊，沒有這樣的數據放在前面說我們要討論這樣的議題，沒有這樣的數據啊！"],["王委員鴻薇：要開放美國牛絞肉跟提高美國豬腎萊劑ppm，都沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：我說前一段的接觸是停下來，是沒有在討論實質內容的，但是臺灣身為國際社會的一員，當然在國際的標準底下，我們可以跟其他國家做很多的交流，但目前是沒有這樣的……"],["王委員鴻薇：我還是要講喔，現在美國的新任政府正在任命一些部長，我們還是要為我們的食安把關，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道美國的壓力很強大，但是我們要為食安把關。","另外，剩下一點點時間……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的標準就是，國際的標準就是臺灣的標準，一定會為食安把關。"],["王委員鴻薇：我們應該更嚴格啊！如果按照美國的標準不得了啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：世界的標準、國際的標準，我說國際的標準，不是美國的標準。"],["王委員鴻薇：那就代表你要開了嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是！剛剛委員說要為食安把關，我說我們跟國際是同步的。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外我要回應一下，剛才我們傅總召跟部長有一點口角，但是我必須說，部長，其實政務官在公職人員財產申報裡面，作為政務官必須去做強制信託，而部長在就任之前把你的股票十幾億吧，你把股票轉到你們家族的投資公司，這確實有迴避相關的法令問題，包含政務官的財產申報，就是公務人員財產申報法，還有包含這個有沒有規避贈與稅的問題，其實確實有這些問題啊！部長應該認真去面對這些問題，解除外界對於你有關於股票移轉的疑慮。剛才傅總召某個程度他其實說得是對的喔……"],["郭部長智輝：不是，他是攻擊我……"],["王委員鴻薇：因為照理說你應該做財產的強制信託，而不是去迴避相關的法令喔。"],["郭部長智輝：他是攻擊我，不像委員你這樣的垂詢，他是在攻擊我的，不像你這樣垂詢的方式。"],["主席：好，謝謝，謝謝，謝謝，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：一切都要照法律的規定來做。"],["郭部長智輝：我都按照法律的規定在進行。"],["王委員鴻薇：不是，你不要規避法令……"],["郭部長智輝：我不會規避法令。"],["王委員鴻薇：我相信我們這邊有漏洞，你本來就應該強制信託呀……"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有規避法令。"],["王委員鴻薇：結果你去移轉給你兒子的投資公司，這不行的啦！"],["主席：謝謝，謝謝王鴻薇的質詢，謝謝卓院長、經濟部長的備詢。接下來請登記第7號陳培瑜委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":224,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-9","speakers":["韓國瑜","傅崐萁","張啓楷","洪申翰","林思銘","賴瑞隆","王鴻薇","陳培瑜","黃健豪","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","吳思瑤","廖偉翔","李坤城","張智倫","邱志偉"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2024-11-19"],"gazette_id":"1139501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139501_00003","1139501_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第9次會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「113年度中央政府總預算追加\n預算案」編製經過並備質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1139501_00013"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}