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哇 你中央錢很多都沒給地方那請問這些前瞻我們錢到底給了誰"},{"start":250.765,"end":272.822,"text":"主席長,我們錢給了誰?我們不是給地方嗎?現在不是國民黨執政比較多嗎?民進黨執政才五個縣市耶!包括直轄市跟非直轄市也就五個耶!其他都是國民黨耶!我們有少給人家嗎?沒有啊!那為什麼要這樣戴帽子呢?"},{"start":274.182,"end":280.834,"text":"所以今天在審這個前瞻基礎建設計畫的時候我們為台南所爭取的我們要拿計畫來欸"},{"start":283.479,"end":306.186,"text":"不是用口說的就可以我們是要拿計畫每一個縣市都一樣所以我們是從整個公路總局還有鐵道局我們的軌道建設捷運的部分鐵路地下化我們也是要經過可行性評估要經過所有相關的資料顯示"},{"start":308.052,"end":333.419,"text":"不是隨便講講都可以還有我們水利署的包括我們在征文南化所有聯通管的計畫還有我們的山上淨水廠供水系統昨天我們要求所有的首相要回到島主台南我們就是要水給他我們就是電愛給他水要給他很重要嘛水若不給他的市長"},{"start":335.72,"end":353.675,"text":"請問他要怎麼去經營?所以我們利用了在整個特別預算將曾文南化聯通館的工程計畫、臺南山上淨水廠供水系統改善計畫還有縣市館、河川及區域排水整體改善計畫這都在特別委員會裡面我們有掃給了任何一個縣市嗎?來,署長"},{"start":360.066,"end":389.851,"text":"我們有掃給了地方?哪一個地方?哪一個縣市嗎?各位委員報告我完全沒有我們依照治水的需求來補助地方政府那確實也達成一定的效果以凱米颱風為例的話像過去莫拉克的話幾乎台南市的淹水的面積超過5萬5那凱米颱風當然雨量也非常的多那我們不幸有一些地方也有淹水但是淹水面積已經降低到300多公頃左右大幅的降低各縣市都是一樣"},{"start":389.991,"end":409.767,"text":"所以我們是整體規劃,對不對?整體規劃,然後整體給預算這樣才能把整個我們的治水面積可以擴大嘛,擴到最大嘛,對不對?這是一個串聯性的,不是看哪一個縣市,它是一個整個串聯的"},{"start":410.822,"end":432.784,"text":"所以這個很重要好我再問一下農業部部長部長請問我們農水署跟水保署的預算這不重要這牽扯到我們整個農水署我們的農水牌還有我們的水土波期這都有關到人民的生命安全我們有掃給嗎各縣市有掃給嗎"},{"start":439.111,"end":452.487,"text":"是嘛!依照各縣市的需求我覺得今天不能戴帽子你要去處理財化法都沒有問題不能戴帽子說中央都沒給地方預算這是不公平的"},{"start":453.308,"end":480.761,"text":"所以我們也認為臺南因為這一筆前瞻預算我們地方說真的幫忙很多從農水署到水保署幫忙很多我們也爭取很多經費去幫忙到地方的發展所以我們認為該怎麼說就怎麼說不能有所扭曲還有一個很重要的不好意思主席國科會的這個AI運算資料中心建制計畫"},{"start":482.462,"end":487.868,"text":"這個部分我們拜託我們這個國科會的部分因為國科會這個部分是由我們"},{"start":501.823,"end":531.118,"text":"做主導對不對?AI運算資料中心就是我們臺南所設置的AI產業園區嘛對不對?是由我們國科會嘛可是我要問的國科會你有辦法一個人去串聯所有的各部會嗎?因為這個智慧、科技、大南方、產業、生態系這個不是只有國科會是要各個部門欸你有辦法嗎?你有辦法去串聯嗎?我們一定要各部會一起合作啦"},{"start":531.67,"end":533.611,"text":"好,誰當Leader?"},{"start":533.611,"end":550.701,"text":"是國科會去當Leader嗎?國科會來規劃,未來這個園區國會來協助管理,是協助管理,你有辦法去串聯其他的部會嗎?你們都是平衡的耶,你們都是平行的耶,有辦法嗎?這很重要耶這是台南重大的一個AI產業園區"},{"start":552.242,"end":567.558,"text":"是,我現在是也兼政委,所以以行政院政委的身份來選擇。所以你是以行政院政委來溝通所有的平行單位,是不是?是。這很重要喔。是。所以,我就是要問出這一點。"},{"start":568.599,"end":594.635,"text":"因為你光由國科會這個角色你沒有辦法去串聯其他的部會但是你政委是可以的所以拜託今天會由您擔任政委來擔任這樣的角色一定是有所賦予你的責任我們期待除了預算這個在我們前瞻第5期是重點重點之後再怎麼規劃希望要給我們隨時一個計畫報告"},{"start":598.873,"end":601.015,"text":"財政部提出版本"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1298,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（10時28分）謝謝召委，我想先請教主計長。謝謝。"],["主席：主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：主計長，我想瞭解一下，依照目前國民黨跟民眾黨財劃法的修法版本，因為你來自臺南，我相信你對臺南整個財務狀況非常瞭解，在國民黨、民眾黨的財劃法修正版本裡面，臺南是敬陪末座，所調整的幅度敬陪末座，所調整的額度也是敬陪末座。如果是這樣，我是來自臺南的民意代表，我不可能接受，而且我也是臺南市的一分子，我更要極力反對！因為在這麼不公平的分配制度之下，臺南在六都當中很多建設正在發展，包括我們的鐵路地下化，也包括我們的輕軌捷運藍線、綠線等等正在往前邁進，還包括我們所有周邊相關道路的開發和生活圈道路，在在都需要經費，我們才能往上提升到一個完完全全在路網也好、在水利資源充足的前提之下，讓我們臺南有一個新亮點。臺南是400年耶！我們要如何在400年這樣的一個歷史古都當中，幻化出一個新的科技發展？我們有護國神山，臺南台積電、南科最近在周邊土地的成長已經超出我們想像的範圍，所以，主計長，這樣的調整幅度對臺南公不公平？你認為呢？你來自臺南，你認為對臺南公不公平？"],["陳主計長淑姿：就我們的分析，臺南在直轄市裡面算是比較低的，因為現在垂直分配和水平分配整個都還沒有定案，只是在試算的階段，以目前試算的部分而言，臺南甚至比彰化還低，這個部分我們也是希望將來能在分配的時候儘量尋求公平。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以，這麼不公平的財劃法修正案，尤其是對臺南極度不公平，我們怎麼可能接受！現在的前瞻基礎建設計畫就是因為我們要統籌，對於所有在各地方有計畫、有需要的，我們可以全數來支持它，然後只要地方有配合款，計畫到位、配合款到位，我們沒有吝嗇給各地方一分錢，不論國民黨執政還是民進黨執政都一樣，前瞻計畫就是當時有這樣的一個方向跟立意基礎，所以才有特別條例，才有整個特別預算的編列。現在已經到第5期了，我們沒有少給地方一毛錢，可是我不知道為什麼現在居然又要用財劃法去扭曲說：哇！你中央錢很多，都沒給地方。那請問我們這些前瞻的錢到底給了誰？主計長，我們的錢給了誰？我們不是給地方嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：現在不是國民黨執政比較多嗎？民進黨執政才5個縣市，包括直轄市跟非直轄市，也就5個。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：其他都是國民黨執政，我們有少給人家嗎？沒有啊！為什麼要這樣戴帽子呢？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以今天在審前瞻基礎建設計畫的時候，我們要為臺南爭取的時候，要拿計畫來，不是用口說的就可以，我們是要拿計畫，每一個縣市都一樣。所以我們是從整個公路總局、鐵道局有關軌道建設、捷運、鐵路地下化的部分提出計畫，這些也是要經過可行性評估、要經過所有相關資料的顯示，不是隨便講講都可以；在水利署的部分，則包括我們在曾文─南化所有連通管的計畫，還有山上淨水場供水系統。今天我們要求所有的廠商要回來投資臺南，就是要供水給他們、供電給他們，供水給他們是很重要的，如果沒有供水給他們，請問他們要怎麼去經營？所以我們利用了整個特別預算，將曾文─南化連通管的工程計畫、臺南山上淨水場供水系統改善計畫，還有縣市管河川及區域排水整體改善計畫納入，這些都在特別預算裡面，我們有少給了任何一個縣市嗎？署長，我們有少給了哪一個地方、哪一個縣市嗎？"],["賴署長建信：跟委員報告，完全沒有，我們依照治水的需求來補助地方政府，確實也達成一定的效果。以凱米颱風為例，像過去莫拉克颱風，幾乎臺南市淹水的面積差不多5萬5,000公頃，凱米颱風當然雨量也非常地多，不幸有一些地方也有淹水，但是淹水的面積已經降低到三百多公頃左右，大幅地降低，各縣市都是一樣。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以我們是整體規劃，對不對？"],["賴署長建信：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：整體規劃，然後整體給預算，這樣才能把整個治水面積擴到最大，對不對？"],["賴署長建信：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：這是一個串聯性的，不是看哪一個縣市，它是整個串聯的，所以這個很重要。","我再問一下農業部。部長，請問農水署跟水保署的預算重不重要？這牽扯到整個農水署的農水排，還有水土保持……"],["陳部長駿季：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：這些都攸關人民的生命安全欵！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們有少給嗎？各縣市有少給嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，如果依照縣市的需求，我們都會去協助。"],["陳委員亭妃：是嘛！依照各縣市的需求。我覺得今天不能給人戴帽子，要去處理財劃法都沒有問題，不能給人戴帽子，說中央都沒給地方預算，這是不公平的。所以我們也認為臺南因為這筆前瞻預算，說真的，對我們地方幫忙很多，從農水署到水保署，幫忙很多，我們也爭取很多經費去幫忙地方的發展，所以我們該怎麼說就怎麼說，不能有所扭曲。","不好意思，主席。還有一個很重要的就是國科會的AI運算資料中心建置計畫，這個部分要拜託國科會，因為是由國科會主導，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：AI運算資料中心就是在臺南所設置的AI產業園區，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：是由國科會主導嘛？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是我要問，國科會有辦法以一個部會去串聯所有的部會嗎？因為這個智慧科技大南方產業生態系不是只有靠國科會，而是需要各個部門，你有辦法嗎？你有辦法去串聯嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們一定要各部會一起合作。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，誰當leader？是國科會去當leader嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會來規劃，未來這個園區由國科會來協助管理。"],["陳委員亭妃：協助管理，你有辦法去串聯其他的部會嗎？你們都是平行的，有辦法嗎？這很重要?！這是臺南重大的AI產業園區。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，我現在也兼政委，所以我以行政院政委的身分來協助。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以你是以行政院政委來溝通所有的平行單位，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：這很重要喔。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我就是要問出這一點，因為光由國科會這個角色，沒有辦法去串聯其他的部會。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員亭妃：但是政委是可以的，所以拜託，今天會由您擔任政委來出任這樣的角色，一定是有所賦予你的責任，我們期待，這個在前瞻第5期特別預算是重點。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：重點之後在於怎麼規劃，希望隨時要給我們一個計畫報告。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，謝謝。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳亭妃委員。","接著我們請賴瑞隆委員。財政部趕快提出版本，這麼多委員對財劃法有意見。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":312,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","李坤城","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","林宜瑾","郭國文","賴惠員","賴士葆","洪孟楷","顏寬恒","萬美玲","王世堅","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張雅琳","柯志恩","王鴻薇","陳超明","陳菁徽","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李昆澤","黃秀芳","吳沛憶","林月琴","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","李柏毅","張智倫","李彥秀","黃健豪","徐富癸","張宏陸","謝衣鳯","楊瓊瓔","劉建國","范雲","游顥","林倩綺","王正旭","何欣純","羅明才","鄭正鈐","王育敏","葛如鈞","邱志偉","羅廷瑋","盧縣一","吳春城","黃珊珊","林俊憲","黃國昌","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","蔡其昌","張嘉郡","陳素月","邱議瑩","葉元之","邱鎮軍","蔡易餘"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請相關部會首長就「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算執行情形及成效」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢；二、審查行政院函請審議「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第 5 期特別預算案\n（114年度）」（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}