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"},{"start":127.94,"end":146.067,"text":"這確實是事實,沒有水就說自來水股要漲,有很多版忘了,像最近颱風來了水庫滿滿的大家忘了但是你做保證,你說你最擅長財務的管理,希望給自來水公司多多的幫忙一下"},{"start":147.045,"end":163.795,"text":"他的理涉金入占18點多餘,占他成本的5.6,我看這有哪有國家來補貼啦,更重要,讓自來水股能呼吸一下,你看完嗎?我來請述啦,我來請述一點。我相信你的,你現在紅人,第一個,"},{"start":169.795,"end":191.922,"text":"我前陣子在執行我是清清代過,我是說你要聽我的話我堅持反對中鋼這綠電的買賣的售價平台按照我反對,我們的離岸風力的國產化,南北各一家北的是四季鋼,南的是中鋼,這公司很大很偉大"},{"start":194.963,"end":208.847,"text":"但是投資了64億,虧損到一毛錢沒有,沒有自我檢討,沒有自我講安卓人的成功,一本錢那抽,那抽不成功,十幾天湊起來做,做到紅紅紅紅。"},{"start":211.568,"end":228.179,"text":"我是為這一點來看,既然中鋼營對綠電沒有貢獻,硬的不行,你又來吃軟的綠電品牌,我間接反對。這個不能只以擔當,你可以選擇給台電,台電現在是再多不醜萬億虧損不差那一點點。"},{"start":230.66,"end":254.968,"text":"如果賺錢可以彌補虧損對不對?你不知道算那堆斷了沒來行的中鋼那些來著啊你曉得嗎?60幾億虧損他不會投手我感覺這很悲哀的事情尤其光電都在南部產生一個弊端中鋼已經被南部的私立把持連台電都不敢講話我一把你點的這樣知道嗎?了解啊 再來"},{"start":259.349,"end":285.086,"text":"你說花絡剩下與蝴蝶自來,我現在拿一個資料去看,本來就要問了。我不知道,現在蘋果把台灣生產線移到印度,英偉達把高端的晶片準備給韓國,高通高端的機師也移到日本,波音在台灣做一些零件,全部"},{"start":286.688,"end":302.142,"text":"把他移出去。再來,我們的星巴克在台灣恍恍惚惚,現在總部要遷到印尼。再來,群達斯的物流中心在台灣,現在移到菲律賓澳。"},{"start":303.943,"end":321.988,"text":"特斯拉、馬斯克、太空訓練說臺灣的工廠都要到泰國、越南設一家分工廠,把它移出去。電裝、全部研發在臺灣全部停止了。"},{"start":324.429,"end":346.114,"text":"所以說,如果你盛開這些為什麼要撤離過去?我告訴你,我記得我看一個資料,你說台積電的兩耐敏絕對不會移出去,你沒那麼危難。來的這個政府把台積電當作禮物到處送,你講是擴大雄偉的實力,台積電真的很不想吃氣啊。"},{"start":346.934,"end":358.45,"text":"那是可憐啦!沒辦法啦!我們是在別人的菜店那地方台!講得最是一套喔!確確實實的內幕你最清楚!"},{"start":359.212,"end":386.835,"text":"那這裡面是代表發作生開那些大公司應該要來怎麼只有我們的台積電把他外送出去我感覺你這個要檢討啦這兩件深層議我們自己寧願曉得現在都大家不敢講未來這是戰爭的一個前兆你們都在暴露你們的執政黨到時候有人留在台灣嗎我跟你講這個叫做掏空台灣"},{"start":389.247,"end":394.161,"text":"一聽有時候講起來又不能講明但是都要說好聽的"},{"start":395.865,"end":423.197,"text":"好不好,這點我希望大家應該很感受很深啦。您做上你人的社會資助啦。我們的大本營是富國深山,優惠四分五裂,絕對的。你的技術,連商業機密都要叫你交出來,你有什麼保障?再來,現在要說你的注意點。你手下的四家大公司,台電、中油、台水、台糖,"},{"start":424.617,"end":437.922,"text":"我看這個領事我看起來實在講彼一時的、此一時的昨非今世、今世昨非。執政的人要有擔當。我不知道你有擔當、沒有擔當,你看起來很有擔當,這個趨勢都很好地,還有這個經驗地。"},{"start":443.752,"end":447.597,"text":"那為什麽要跟你談這個問題呢?馬英九前總統,油電酸長,火車執政黨修理咖啡師他在民國97年5月,油價調漲12%"},{"start":456.687,"end":459.57,"text":"民國97年7月油價再調漲4%電價調漲12%在民國101年4月油價漲10.7電價漲29.5一直在讓民進黨很糟蹋"},{"start":475.265,"end":491.133,"text":"他不畏稀慘堅持要參加,這叫做為人作假,說到不爽害國民黨落寞到現在,敢做事情,有時候死得比誰還快,我不知道你有這個擔當嗎?所以今天這樣看起來,從97年101年,拖到100年"},{"start":496.766,"end":520.794,"text":"一十年開始轉虧當然你有說新冠疫情當然你有說是兩岳的戰爭我現在想聽看你有擔當嗎?看你有起票嗎?看你有真實做事嗎?台電很可憐的公司政策的左馬生你知道他到現在虧損一兆嗎?如果這兩千億撥給他"},{"start":523.973,"end":538.46,"text":"一共將政府撥走了6600億,他在114年的Question還繼續有3000億,所以他是Question的遺兆。中有將近4000億的Question,"},{"start":540.049,"end":555.993,"text":"自來水公司170億塊錢,台糖公司只有賣土地、租土地賺錢。看你外國,你這個香港從業小公司做到這麼成功,你說財務你做了該來行,你有什麼辦法這樣來解我這個問題?我講得很實際喔。"},{"start":562.045,"end":588.833,"text":"如果廠長政策他現在要討好選票這8年都沒有漲到一毛錢我愛百姓但是實際的話非常困這個是臺灣政治悲哀的地方臺灣政治如果很虛偽的地方都不敢把真實的情況告訴百姓臺灣面臨的問題簡單一下稍微做一下一分鐘給部長回答不然我講到這裡不回答還太靈敏"},{"start":592.535,"end":592.836,"text":"法定人數不足"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":755,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時33分）謝謝召委。首先有請郭部長。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長。"],["陳委員超明：還有水利署林副署長，還有自來水公司的李董事長。"],["主席：請台水公司李董事長、水利署副署長。"],["陳委員超明：部長，我剛才聽了以後覺得很奇怪，我們的執政黨怎麼會越來越不長進？別人是比較哪一間公司會賺錢，我們是在比誰比較不會虧錢，我覺得這個道理思維有不一樣的地方，我希望不要沉迷這樣，什麼政策都要去辯護，對就是對，錯就是錯，我們比會賺錢的，不要跟韓國跟日本來比虧錢的，說起來是很丟臉的事情，好不好？","第二點，我今天為什麼要特別請水利署和自來水公司？因為自來水在地方上是非常重要的民生，這幾年我非常深深地感受到水利署跟自來水公司在苗栗縣延管一直鋪，本來有一個鄉鎮普及率是百分之五十幾，現在到85%，再繼續會到90%，讓我覺得很有面子，我特地來感謝他們這兩個單位，第一個是水利署，希望天花湖水庫趕快安排，我會安排跟我們縣長來討論如何來籌建這個。今天我要向部長替自來水公司討個人情，自來水公司目前虧損171億，去借錢債務一千三百多億，你們都沒有幫忙，所以自來水公司都是很可憐的，下雨時他們不能穿雨衣，還要替人家撐傘，殘酷的地方在哪裡？沒有水，就說自來水要漲價，有水就把它忘了，像最近颱風來了，水庫滿滿的，大家就忘了，但是你當部長，你說你最擅長財務的管理，我希望你給自來水公司多多幫忙一下，它的利息就十八點多億，占成本的5.6%，我看這還是要由國家來補貼，比較重要的是，讓自來水公司能呼吸一下，你看法如何？"],["郭部長智輝：我來爭取，我來爭取這點。"],["陳委員超明：我相信你的能力，你現在是紅人。","第二個，我上次在質詢時，我是輕輕帶過，我想說你聽得懂我的話，我堅持反對中鋼做綠電買賣的售電平台，為什麼我反對？我們的離岸風力國產化，南北各一家，北的是世紀鋼，南的是中鋼，這個公司很大，很偉大，但是投資了64億，虧損到連一毛錢都沒有剩，沒有自我檢討，沒有自我思考為什麼別人會成功，它本錢那麼雄厚，做不成功，世紀鋼做得紅紅火火，我是從這一點來看，既然中鋼對綠電沒有貢獻，硬的不行，你又來吃軟的綠電平台，我堅決反對，這個不能足以擔當，你可以選別的，給台電，台電現在是債多不愁，萬一虧損，不差那一點點，如果賺錢，可以彌補虧損，對不對？你不能選對電不內行的中鋼，你曉得，就算有六十幾億虧損，它不會頭痛，我覺得這是很悲哀的事情，尤其光電在南部產生弊端，中鋼已經被南部的勢力把持，連台電都不敢講話，這樣你知道嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：了解。"],["陳委員超明：再來，你說花若盛開蝴蝶自來，我現在拿了一個資料給你看，本來我不想問這個，可是現在蘋果公司把臺灣的生產線移到印度，輝達準備把高端的晶片給韓國，高通也是把高端的技術移到日本，波音以前在臺灣做一些零件，全部移出去。再來，星巴克在臺灣紅紅火火，現在總部要遷到印尼，肯德基的物流中心在臺灣，現在移到菲律賓，特斯拉更厲害，現在當紅的馬斯克，SpaceX太空探索技術公司要到泰國、越南設一家分工廠，把臺灣工廠移出去，在臺灣研發電樁的工作全部停止了，所以如果花是盛開，這些為什麼要撤離？我跟部長說，我記得我看一個資料，你說台積電的2奈米絕對不會移出去，你沒有這麼偉大，我們的政府把台積電當成禮物到處送，你講是擴大雄偉的實力，台積電真的很不想出去啊，那是可憐，拿人家沒辦法，我們在別人的砧板上任由人家宰殺，講的是一套，確確實實的內幕你最清楚，如果這裡面是代表花若盛開，那些大公司應該要來，怎麼只有我們的台積電被外送出去？我覺得你這個要檢討。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["陳委員超明：這裡面的深層意義我們自己曉得，你也曉得，現在大家不敢講，未來這是戰爭的一個前兆，你們都在暴露，你們的執政黨到時候有人留在臺灣嗎？我跟你講，這個叫做掏空臺灣，這一點，有時候講起來又不能講明，但是都要說好聽話，這一點，大家應該感受很深啦。你們生意人，全世界在跑，我們的大本營護國神山以後絕對會四分五裂，你的技術、商業機密，別人叫你交出來，你有什麼保障？","再來，現在要說你的水電，你手下的4家大公司台電、中油、台水、台糖，我看這個歷史，實在講，此一時也，彼一時也，昨非今是，今是昨非，政治人物要有擔當，我不知道你有沒有擔當，你看起來很有擔當，氣勢都很好，又有經驗，那我為什麼要跟你談這個問題呢？馬英九前總統油電雙漲，被執政黨修理得要死，他在民國97年5月油價調漲12%，民國97年7月油價再調漲4%，電價調漲12%，在民國101年4月油價漲10.7%，電價漲29.5%，真的被民進黨修理得很慘，他堅持要漲價，這叫做為人作嫁，笨到不會抓癢，害國民黨沒落到現在，敢做事情，有時候死得比誰還快，我不知道你有沒有這個擔當。所以這樣看起來，從97年、101年拖到110年開始轉虧，當然有時候是因為新冠疫情，有時候是因為烏俄戰爭，我現在算給你聽，看你有沒有擔當，看你有沒有氣魄，看你沒有真正做事情。台電是很可憐的公司，是政策的馬前卒，你知道他到現在虧損1兆嗎？如果這2,000億撥給它，政府補助了6,600億，它在114年的虧損還繼續有3,000億，所以它是虧損了1兆。中油將近4,000億的虧損，自來水公司170億虧損，台糖公司只有賣土地、租土地賺錢，看看你多厲害，你這個「先覺」，從小公司做到這麼成功，你說財務你很內行，你有什麼辦法來解決這些問題？我講的很實際喔。如果為了政策，他們現在要討好選票，說這8年都沒有漲到一毛錢，愛百姓，但是說實際的話非常困難，這個是臺灣政治悲哀的地方，臺灣政治人物很虛偽的地方，都不敢把真實的情況告訴百姓臺灣面臨的問題，主席，稍微坐一下，給部長回答，不然我說這麼多，部長沒回答，報紙又要修理我們了。"],["主席：羅智強在等了。"],["陳委員超明：部長，你的看法呢？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，你所指教的這些部分，我們都來檢討。"],["陳委員超明：好，我相信你有能力啊。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員超明：不做官也可以，要真正為臺灣百姓做事，不是掛在嘴裡，天天都講那一些五四三的口號。謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳超明委員，語重心長，為國為民，令人感動。部長，請回座。","來，下一位質詢請羅智強委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-15","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","陳超明","羅智強","賴士葆","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","呂玉玲","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","葉元之","林德福"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣電力股份有限公\n司、台灣自來水股份有限公司（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}