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放"},{"start":181.391,"end":205.12,"text":"沒關係繼續因為之前我們也有跟你們這邊問過到底這個所謂的網站到底要做什麼你們的講法是說因為你們要讓一些醫護人員來主要的用法是說要讓全國民眾包括醫護人員來使用這個網站所以你們這個網站是要對全民的特別是醫護人員但是這個醫護人員部分我就非常不解為什麼呢第一"},{"start":206.061,"end":220.577,"text":"醫護人員如果他要操作這個可能會有輻射的這些設備的時候,他要考證照,原本他就具備相關的知識了,對吧?他如果都不具備輻射的知識,他可以去當比如說X光的放射師嗎?可以嗎?"},{"start":221.653,"end":223.794,"text":"為什麼你們還要做一個網站去讓這些醫護人員去了解輻射的知識?為什麼?我想任何一個從業"},{"start":242.096,"end":243.397,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預"},{"start":267.628,"end":268.288,"text":"考證照"},{"start":294.357,"end":321.881,"text":"我覺得沒有辦法說服人啦第二個你有考慮到這些醫護人員他有時間去上你們這個網站嗎你知道現在各大醫院急診室都塞床啊你知道原因是什麼嗎因為護理師都不夠啊護理師不夠所以很多病床都沒有開啊所以很多人都在急診室等病床然後現在核安會說我要架一個一千多萬的網站去讓這些醫事人員要來進修啊如果沒有進修的話可能知識會落伍啊他們有空上嗎"},{"start":325.858,"end":346.875,"text":"主委代理主委我是覺得可以跟委員分享一個概念就是說並不是等到他們急需需要的時候我們才來做那就已經來不及了那所以你有強制他們來上嗎你有要求說他們要多少時數所以才能夠繼續做這個工作嗎有這樣要求嗎"},{"start":347.93,"end":367.489,"text":"後續怎麼樣去提升它們需要的……所以你講的是你現在解釋說為什麼要架這個網站因為呢那些議事人員沒有來上你的網站知識就會落伍了不是等到落伍了才來修應該是平常就要進修你的想法是這樣你把這個網站進修講得非常重要可是我現在問你說那你有沒有強制他一定要來進修你又說後續再規劃"},{"start":368.39,"end":394.431,"text":"所以你當初在規劃這1000多萬的網站的時候你都沒有考慮到他後續的配套嘛再來喔其實你們這個網站當時告訴我們說裡面有很多線上的模擬測驗提庫啊什麼的一些案例示範教材等等但實際上這一些所謂你要在這個網站上面要放的這些東西專業知識教材提庫在現有的核安會網站上都有啦都已經有放啦"},{"start":398.339,"end":399.42,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預"},{"start":421.598,"end":443.87,"text":"再來我們也不是你們核安會也不是只有這個網站是這個狀況這些錢一千多萬我不知道核安會覺得是不是不是錢就要做這個東西然後你們也有一個APP叫做核安1.通APP核安會的APP8年總共花了156萬去做這個APP主委知道嗎"},{"start":448.157,"end":471.472,"text":"知道嗎?那你知道這個APP的下載量所有的平台比如說蘋果的系統、Android的系統加起來它下載量是多少你知道嗎?一萬多一萬六千八百九十四次八年花一百五十六萬然後只有下載一萬六千八百九十四次實際上下載的量你覺得高嗎?我們繼續努力你覺得高嗎?"},{"start":475.267,"end":482.332,"text":"我覺得我們需要繼續努力你覺得高不高嘛我覺得我們應該提高主委你覺得高不高如果官員來這背詢這種態度的話沒有我是你覺得高不高嘛就是因為我們希望你覺得不高嘛你覺得低嘛我希望更高你覺得低嘛"},{"start":491.788,"end":505.299,"text":"你已經花156萬做一個APP下載量你自己都覺得不滿意了你覺得要再高你現在又要再花1200多萬去下這一個網站這個網站裡面的內容很多在你原本的網站就有"},{"start":507.267,"end":532.078,"text":"然後你說這個網站的溝通對象是醫護人員但那些醫護人員平常他們本來就有受這些核輻射的訓練他才能取得證照然後你現在又告訴我說他們如果沒有來上你這個網站的話他的知識可能不足所以你覺得他們就是要不斷的要終身學習所以要上這個網站但是你又講不出你之後怎麼配套比如說要求他一定要來補時數他的證照才能延續"},{"start":533.078,"end":534.525,"text":"我的感覺啦我今天跟你對談的感覺你那個網站1200萬就丟到水裡啦"},{"start":540.069,"end":564.018,"text":"與委員報告我們是第一年度我們是以醫護人員為主但是我們希望這個輻射的這個平台之後是跟輻射相關的這個業者或者關心的民眾都可以對但是我光是跟你討論醫護第一年醫護嘛你花了1200多萬嘛為了醫護嘛第一年嘛但是我光跟你討論醫護的這一塊我覺得很多事情都沒有回答好啊對"},{"start":566.318,"end":592.484,"text":"什麼對你花錢的時候今天我們政府要砸錢做一個東西都不用去規劃所有的事情比如說網站出來之後給誰用那怎麼去配套欸他如果不用的話我們怎麼要求他用或者說我們這個網站有多重要重要到說他不用的話他會怎麼如何如何如何沒有一個完整的說法出來錢就先花下去然後今天來這邊回答問題也是問你APP問你高或低你說我覺得又是一副就是來耍嘴皮子的樣子一千兩百多萬欸"},{"start":596.058,"end":612.016,"text":"不是錢嗎?時間到了快到了超過了基本上我覺得委員關切的部分你補一個完整的效益評估1244萬效益評估"},{"start":615.182,"end":639.051,"text":"好,我們之後補給委員什麼時候補?效益評估?你到底細項為什麼要做一個網站要花到一千兩百多萬到底為什麼?我們一個月之內補給委員所以你們沒有報告喔?你們沒有效益評估要一個月要去掰喔?這個報告應該現成的啊為什麼要一個月?你們當初花錢做事情的時候都會有一個效益評估啊怎麼那個東西拿給我就好了為什麼要一個月?是說還要去掰是不是?"},{"start":640.967,"end":641.267,"text":"代理主委請回"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:38:20.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:38:21.725000+08:00","text":"主席，麻煩請代理主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T11:38:22.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:38:23.209000+08:00","text":"好，請張代理主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:38:23.209000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:38:28.337000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:38:28.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:38:28.757000+08:00","text":"代理主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:38:29.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:38:40.263000+08:00","text":"剛剛好像其他委員跟你問到，就是說核安會的網站點閱率都非常差，但我的了解是，你們現在還要花一千兩百多萬，這麼多錢要去架設一個網站。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:38:41.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:38:54.050000+08:00","text":"這個議題我們當時看到你們要做這個事情的時候就覺得很誇張，到底什麼樣的曠世巨作網站需要花1,244萬，這麼高額的錢去做網站，到底有沒有隨便亂花錢？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:38:56.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:39:00.473000+08:00","text":"這個網站是所謂的輻射安全防護數位自主學習網，1,244萬。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:39:00.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:39:05.555000+08:00","text":"我跟你對照另外一個項目，那個項目叫臺灣地區環境輻射偵測經費，就是說我們會在全臺灣放置一些輻射的偵測設備。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:39:05.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:39:29.574000+08:00","text":"全臺灣放這些設備去偵測輻射，大概花1,139萬，但是我們架一個網站就花了1,244萬，比放偵測輻射設備的錢還多。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:39:30.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:39:34.898000+08:00","text":"那我們現在就來跟你討教一下，到底這個網站為什麼要花這麼多錢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:39:34.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:39:36.059000+08:00","text":"這個網站您知道嗎？知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:39:36.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:39:37.440000+08:00","text":"請問一下這個網站為什麼要花那麼多錢做？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:39:41.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:39:48.608000+08:00","text":"首先這個環境輻射偵測的經費，其實是一個例行的維護保養……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:39:48.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:39:49.408000+08:00","text":"我是問網站。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:39:51.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:06.479000+08:00","text":"網站的部分因為輻射從業人員日益增多，剛才都有提到輻射防護事實上是非常重要的一環，所以我們希望由各種方式來強化輻射防護。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:08.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:10.381000+08:00","text":"為什麼要花這麼多錢，為什麼？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:10.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:13.863000+08:00","text":"因為有七百多萬元是做硬體的部分，六百多萬元是做教學……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:15.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:16.384000+08:00","text":"網站的硬體部分？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:16.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:18.645000+08:00","text":"網站的硬體。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:18.645000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:19.645000+08:00","text":"七百多萬元……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:18.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:20.346000+08:00","text":"你們做一個網站的硬體要七百多萬元，這七百多萬元硬體是什麼錢？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:20.346000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:25.205429+08:00","text":"是有線上模擬測驗功能、介接積分證驗證系統，還有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:25.205429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:30.064857+08:00","text":"不、不、不，這都是功能嘛，我們現在講說為什麼要花到那麼多錢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:30.064857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:34.924286+08:00","text":"隨便做一個網站它都會有很多功能，但是你現在花一千多萬元不合理嘛，所以你現在說明一下為什麼要花那麼多錢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:34.924286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:39.783714+08:00","text":"細項的話是不是我們再補給這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:39.783714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:44.643143+08:00","text":"所以你不曉得？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:44.643143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:49.502571+08:00","text":"你們核安會花了一千多萬元做一個網站。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:49.502571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:54.362000+08:00","text":"這是一件很大的預算，但是核安會說不曉得，好那我們來看……","quality":0.208},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:54.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:40:55.763000+08:00","text":"這個一定要跟委員說明一下……好。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:40:56.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:09.750000+08:00","text":"因為我們要建立數位化，其實數位化還會涉及到個資的問題，所以這其實在……委員是說：哎～建置一個這樣花錢……其實這個部分我們是有細部的一個評估，這確實是需要花到……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:09.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:10.963667+08:00","text":"你講什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:10.963667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:12.177333+08:00","text":"有人聽得懂嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:12.177333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:13.391000+08:00","text":"不是，在硬體的設備……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:13.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:13.551000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，繼續。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:13.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:19.734000+08:00","text":"因為之前我們也有跟你們問過，這個所謂的網站到底要做什麼。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:19.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:33.018000+08:00","text":"你們的講法是說因為你們要讓一些醫護人員來……主要的用法是說要讓全國民眾包括醫護人員來使用這個網站，所以你們這個網站是要對全民的，特別是醫護人員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:33.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:36.760000+08:00","text":"但是醫護人員部分，我就非常不解，為什麼呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:36.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:45.910000+08:00","text":"第一，醫護人員如果他要操作可能會有輻射的設備的時候，他要考證照，原本他就具備相關的知識，對吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:47.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:52.457000+08:00","text":"他如果都不具備輻射的知識，他可以去當比如X光的放射師嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:52.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:52.577000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:52.577000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:53.577000+08:00","text":"一定要有相關的證照。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:53.577000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:54.577000+08:00","text":"一定要有相關的證照嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:54.577000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:55.577000+08:00","text":"相關證照代表說他對這個輻射安全的知識都已經很了解了，對吧？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:53.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:55.373000+08:00","text":"那為什麼你們還要做一個網站，去讓這些醫護人員了解輻射的知識？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:55.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:41:55.473000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:41:55.473000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:42:06.511750+08:00","text":"我想任何一個從業……就好像核電廠的運轉人員一樣，他有運轉人員執照，他一樣要定期接受再訓練……","quality":0.225},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:42:06.511750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:42:17.550500+08:00","text":"所以這是要再訓練的，所以這些知識……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:42:17.550500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:42:28.589250+08:00","text":"必須一直來強化這方面的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:42:28.589250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:42:39.628000+08:00","text":"所以您的意思是說，就是按照衛福部他們所管理的，比如說醫事人員，他們必須要靠核安會這個網站做再訓練，是吧？","quality":0.064},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:42:39.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:42:40.268000+08:00","text":"那需要再考證照嗎？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:42:40.268000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:42:46.790250+08:00","text":"這個跟考證照……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:42:46.790250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:42:53.312500+08:00","text":"沒有關係嘛，所以他有上沒上沒有差嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:42:53.312500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:42:59.834750+08:00","text":"那你又告訴人家說他必須要再訓練，意思是說如果沒有這個網站的話，我們的X光師，他們可能知識就落伍了，他未來可能操作就會錯誤、會影響到醫療的品質，所以你這個網站很重要嘛，所以要花一千多萬元嘛，你的意思是這樣嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:42:59.834750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:06.357000+08:00","text":"如果是這樣那要不要讓那些醫護人員繼續再考證照？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:06.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:07.298000+08:00","text":"如果沒有的話你這個網站……我覺得沒有辦法說服人。","quality":0.476},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:07.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:13.784000+08:00","text":"第二個，你有考慮到這些醫護人員，他有時間去上你們這個網站嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:13.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:18.508000+08:00","text":"你知道現在各大醫院急診室都塞床，你知道原因是什麼嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:18.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:23.792000+08:00","text":"因為護理師都不夠，護理師不夠所以很多病床都沒有開，所以很多人都在急診室等病床。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:24.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:33.080000+08:00","text":"然後現在核安會說要架一個一千多萬元的網站，去讓這些醫事人員來進修，如果沒有進修的話可能知識會落伍。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:33.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:33.881000+08:00","text":"他們有空上嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:39.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:39.720000+08:00","text":"代理主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:42.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:50.508000+08:00","text":"我是覺得可以跟委員分享一個概念，就是說並不是等到他們急需的時候我們才來做，那就已經來不及了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:51.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:52.770000+08:00","text":"所以你有強制他們來上嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:52.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:58.394000+08:00","text":"你有要求說他們要多少時數才能夠繼續做這個工作嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:58.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:43:58.875000+08:00","text":"有這樣要求嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:43:59.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:44:02.713000+08:00","text":"後續怎麼樣去提升到他們使用的這個部分，我們……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:44:03.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:44:14.745000+08:00","text":"你現在解釋為什麼要架這個網站是因為醫事人員沒有來上你的網站，知識就會落伍了，不是等到落伍了才來進修，應該是平常就要進修，你的講法是這樣，你把這個網站進修講得非常重要。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:44:15.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:44:19.489000+08:00","text":"可是我現在問你有沒有強制他一定要來進修，你又說後續再規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:44:20.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:44:26.015000+08:00","text":"所以你當初在規劃這一千多萬元網站的時候，你都沒有考慮到後續的配套嘛。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:44:26.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:44:46.111000+08:00","text":"好再來當初你告訴我們說，這個網站裡面有很多線上的模擬測驗、題庫，有一些案例、示範教材等等，但實際上這一些你要在這個網站上面放的東西，專業知識教材、題庫，在現有的核安會網站上都有啊，都已經有放啦。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:44:46.111000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:44:51.608400+08:00","text":"都已經有放那為什麼還要再花一千多萬元去做一個新的網站呢？","quality":0.185},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:44:51.608400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:44:57.105800+08:00","text":"我們希望在這個題庫裡面增加情境的部分。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:44:57.105800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:45:02.603200+08:00","text":"你原本就有了嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:45:02.603200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:45:08.100600+08:00","text":"對，我們原來就有題庫，但是我們會再強化。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:45:08.100600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:45:13.598000+08:00","text":"所以你今天來這邊，你完全沒有辦法說服我啦，我覺得這一千多萬元就是為了做而做，看不到任何的效益。","quality":0.023},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:45:13.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:45:23.464000+08:00","text":"好然後再來，你們核安會也不是只有這個網站是這個狀況喔，這些錢一千多萬元，我不知道核安會是不是覺得不是錢啦，就要做這個東西。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:45:24.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:45:40.277000+08:00","text":"然後你們也有一個app，叫做核安e點通app，核安會的app，8年總共花了156萬元去做這個app，主委知道嗎？知道。","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:45:41.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:45:50.864000+08:00","text":"知道嘛，那你知道這個app的下載量，所有的平台比如說蘋果的系統、Android的系統，加起來它下載量是多少你知道嗎？1萬多。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:45:51.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:45:53.305000+08:00","text":"1萬6,894次。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:45:55.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:45:59.169000+08:00","text":"好，8年花156萬元，然後實際上下載的量只有1萬6,894次。","quality":0.474},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:45:59.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:02.091000+08:00","text":"實際上下載的量你覺得高嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:02.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:02.191000+08:00","text":"我們繼續努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:02.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:03.472000+08:00","text":"那你覺得高嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:07.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:08.228000+08:00","text":"我覺得我們需要繼續努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:08.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:09.389000+08:00","text":"那你覺得高不高嘛？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:09.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:09.849000+08:00","text":"我覺得我們應該提高。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:09.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:10.089000+08:00","text":"主委你覺得高不高？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:10.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:10.590000+08:00","text":"如果官員來這邊備詢這種態度的話……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:10.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:10.890000+08:00","text":"沒有我是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:10.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:12.211000+08:00","text":"你覺得高不高嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:12.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:12.891000+08:00","text":"就是因為我們希望更高。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:13.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:13.692000+08:00","text":"你覺得不高嘛，你覺得低嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:13.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:14.032000+08:00","text":"我希望更高。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:14.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:14.312000+08:00","text":"你覺得低嘛！是。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:23.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:46:29.692000+08:00","text":"你已經花156萬元做一個app，下載量你自己都覺得不滿意了，你覺得要再高。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:46:30.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:04.078000+08:00","text":"你現在又要再花一千兩百多萬元去架這一個網站，這個網站裡面的內容，很多在你原本的網站就有；然後你說這個網站的溝通對象是醫護人員，但那些醫護人員平常他們本來就有受這些核輻射的訓練，他們才能取得證照；然後你現在又告訴我說，他們如果沒有來上你這個網站的話，他的知識可能不足，所以你覺得他們就是要終身學習，所以要上這個網站，但是你又講不出你之後怎麼配套，比如說要求他一定要來補時數，他的證照才延續。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:05.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:06.505000+08:00","text":"我的感覺啦，我今天跟你對談的感覺，你那個網站一千兩百多萬元就是丟到水裡啦。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:12.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:17.071000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們是第一年度以醫護人員為主。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:17.071000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:18.071000+08:00","text":"但以醫護人員你也講不出……","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:17.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:26.354000+08:00","text":"但是我們希望這一個輻射的平台，之後是跟輻射相關的業者或者關心的民眾都可以使用，只是第一年我們針對醫護……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:26.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:32.356000+08:00","text":"對，但是我光是跟你討論醫護，第一年醫護你花了一千兩百多萬元，為了醫護嘛、第一年嘛。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:32.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:36.018000+08:00","text":"但我光跟你討論醫護的這一塊，我覺得很多事情都沒有回答好啊。對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:38.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:38.858000+08:00","text":"什麼對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:38.858000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:40.139000+08:00","text":"我們醫護人員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:40.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:47.440000+08:00","text":"今天我們政府要砸錢做一個東西，都不用去規劃所有事情，比如說網站出來之後給誰用、怎麼去配套？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:47.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:54.622000+08:00","text":"他如果不用的話，我們怎麼要求他用，或者說那個網站有多重要，重要到說他不用的話，他會如何如何。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:54.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:47:57.262000+08:00","text":"沒有一個完整的說法出來，錢就先花下去。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:47:57.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:11.462000+08:00","text":"然後今天來這邊回答問題也是，問你app下載量高或低，你說我覺得……一副就是來耍嘴皮子的樣子，一千兩百多萬元耶，不是錢嗎？","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:11.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:14.906000+08:00","text":"時間到，快到了，超過了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:18.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:21.293000+08:00","text":"基本上我覺得委員關切的部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:21.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:23.996000+08:00","text":"你補一個完整的效益評估，1,244萬元效益評估。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:27.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:28.763000+08:00","text":"好，我們之後補給委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:28.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:29.823000+08:00","text":"什麼時候補？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:29.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:30.243000+08:00","text":"效益評估。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:30.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:34.445000+08:00","text":"你的細項為什麼要做一個網站，要花到一千兩百多萬元，到底為什麼。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:34.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:36.566000+08:00","text":"我們一個月之內補給委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:36.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:39.687000+08:00","text":"所以你們沒有報告喔，你們沒有效益評估，要一個月，要去掰喔？不是。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:41.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:43.048000+08:00","text":"這個報告應該現成的啊，為什麼要一個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:43.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:49.151000+08:00","text":"你們當初花錢做事情的時候，都會有一個效益評估啊，那個東西拿給我就好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:49.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:51.031000+08:00","text":"為什麼要一個月，還要去掰是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:51.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:52.031000+08:00","text":"沒有，我們就是補完整的報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:52.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:53.031000+08:00","text":"召委，可不可以請他……那個報告可以……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:53.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:54.031000+08:00","text":"會後好好的跟葉委員口頭報告或書面資料好嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:54.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:55.031000+08:00","text":"沒有，請會後就是今天下班前，先把你們的一千兩百多萬元的效益評估報告，手上有的先送過來。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:55.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:56.031000+08:00","text":"我們先把相關的資料提供給委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:56.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:57.031000+08:00","text":"對，今天下班前好嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:57.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:58.031000+08:00","text":"召委可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:58.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:59.031000+08:00","text":"先把相關的資料給葉委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張代理主任委員欣","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:59.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:49:00.031000+08:00","text":"今天我先把計畫相關的資料給委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T11:49:00.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:49:01.031000+08:00","text":"好謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:52.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:53.247000+08:00","text":"好，代理主委請回，謝謝葉元之委員的質詢。","quality":0.353},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:53.747000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:48:58.032714+08:00","text":"今天登記質詢的委員，均已發言完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T11:48:58.332714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T11:49:02.047000+08:00","text":"另有吳春城委員提出書面質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":679,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時38分）主席，麻煩請代理主委。"],["主席：好，請張代理主委。"],["張代理主任委員欣：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：代理主委好。剛剛好像其他委員跟你問到，就是說核安會的網站點閱率都非常差，但我的了解是，你們現在還要花一千兩百多萬，這麼多錢要去架設一個網站。這個議題我們當時看到你們要做這個事情的時候就覺得很誇張，到底什麼樣的曠世巨作網站需要花1,244萬，這麼高額的錢去做網站，到底有沒有隨便亂花錢？這個網站是所謂的輻射安全防護數位自主學習網，1,244萬。我跟你對照另外一個項目，那個項目叫臺灣地區環境輻射偵測經費，就是說我們會在全臺灣放置一些輻射的偵測設備。全臺灣放這些設備去偵測輻射，大概花1,139萬，但是我們架一個網站就花了1,244萬，比放偵測輻射設備的錢還多。那我們現在就來跟你討教一下，到底這個網站為什麼要花這麼多錢？這個網站您知道嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：知道。"],["葉委員元之：請問一下這個網站為什麼要花那麼多錢做？"],["張代理主任委員欣：首先這個環境輻射偵測的經費，其實是一個例行的維護保養……"],["葉委員元之：我是問網站。"],["張代理主任委員欣：網站的部分因為輻射從業人員日益增多，剛才都有提到輻射防護事實上是非常重要的一環，所以我們希望由各種方式來強化輻射防護。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼要花這麼多錢，為什麼？"],["張代理主任委員欣：因為有七百多萬元是做硬體的部分，六百多萬元是做教學……"],["葉委員元之：網站的硬體部分？網站的硬體。"],["張代理主任委員欣：七百多萬元……"],["葉委員元之：你們做一個網站的硬體要七百多萬元，這七百多萬元硬體是什麼錢？"],["張代理主任委員欣：是有線上模擬測驗功能、介接積分證驗證系統，還有……"],["葉委員元之：不、不、不，這都是功能嘛，我們現在講說為什麼要花到那麼多錢？隨便做一個網站它都會有很多功能，但是你現在花一千多萬元不合理嘛，所以你現在說明一下為什麼要花那麼多錢？"],["張代理主任委員欣：細項的話是不是我們再補給這個……"],["葉委員元之：所以你不曉得？你們核安會花了一千多萬元做一個網站。這是一件很大的預算，但是核安會說不曉得，好那我們來看……"],["張代理主任委員欣：這個一定要跟委員說明一下……"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["張代理主任委員欣：因為我們要建立數位化，其實數位化還會涉及到個資的問題，所以這其實在……委員是說：哎～建置一個這樣花錢……其實這個部分我們是有細部的一個評估，這確實是需要花到……"],["葉委員元之：你講什麼？有人聽得懂嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：不是，在硬體的設備……"],["葉委員元之：好，沒關係，繼續。因為之前我們也有跟你們問過，這個所謂的網站到底要做什麼。你們的講法是說因為你們要讓一些醫護人員來……主要的用法是說要讓全國民眾包括醫護人員來使用這個網站，所以你們這個網站是要對全民的，特別是醫護人員。但是醫護人員部分，我就非常不解，為什麼呢？第一，醫護人員如果他要操作可能會有輻射的設備的時候，他要考證照，原本他就具備相關的知識，對吧？他如果都不具備輻射的知識，他可以去當比如X光的放射師嗎？可以嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：一定要有相關的證照。"],["葉委員元之：一定要有相關的證照嘛！相關證照代表說他對這個輻射安全的知識都已經很了解了，對吧？"],["張代理主任委員欣：是。"],["葉委員元之：那為什麼你們還要做一個網站，去讓這些醫護人員了解輻射的知識？為什麼？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我想任何一個從業……就好像核電廠的運轉人員一樣，他有運轉人員執照，他一樣要定期接受再訓練……"],["葉委員元之：所以這是要再訓練的，所以這些知識……"],["張代理主任委員欣：必須一直來強化這方面的……"],["葉委員元之：所以您的意思是說，就是按照衛福部他們所管理的，比如說醫事人員，他們必須要靠核安會這個網站做再訓練，是吧？那需要再考證照嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：這個跟考證照……"],["葉委員元之：沒有關係嘛，所以他有上沒上沒有差嘛！那你又告訴人家說他必須要再訓練，意思是說如果沒有這個網站的話，我們的X光師，他們可能知識就落伍了，他未來可能操作就會錯誤、會影響到醫療的品質，所以你這個網站很重要嘛，所以要花一千多萬元嘛，你的意思是這樣嘛！如果是這樣那要不要讓那些醫護人員繼續再考證照？如果沒有的話你這個網站……我覺得沒有辦法說服人。","第二個，你有考慮到這些醫護人員，他有時間去上你們這個網站嗎？你知道現在各大醫院急診室都塞床，你知道原因是什麼嗎？因為護理師都不夠，護理師不夠所以很多病床都沒有開，所以很多人都在急診室等病床。然後現在核安會說要架一個一千多萬元的網站，去讓這些醫事人員來進修，如果沒有進修的話可能知識會落伍。他們有空上嗎？代理主委。"],["張代理主任委員欣：我是覺得可以跟委員分享一個概念，就是說並不是等到他們急需的時候我們才來做，那就已經來不及了。"],["葉委員元之：所以你有強制他們來上嗎？你有要求說他們要多少時數才能夠繼續做這個工作嗎？有這樣要求嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：後續怎麼樣去提升到他們使用的這個部分，我們……"],["葉委員元之：你現在解釋為什麼要架這個網站是因為醫事人員沒有來上你的網站，知識就會落伍了，不是等到落伍了才來進修，應該是平常就要進修，你的講法是這樣，你把這個網站進修講得非常重要。可是我現在問你有沒有強制他一定要來進修，你又說後續再規劃。所以你當初在規劃這一千多萬元網站的時候，你都沒有考慮到後續的配套嘛。","好再來當初你告訴我們說，這個網站裡面有很多線上的模擬測驗、題庫，有一些案例、示範教材等等，但實際上這一些你要在這個網站上面放的東西，專業知識教材、題庫，在現有的核安會網站上都有啊，都已經有放啦。都已經有放那為什麼還要再花一千多萬元去做一個新的網站呢？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我們希望在這個題庫裡面增加情境的部分。"],["葉委員元之：你原本就有了嘛！"],["張代理主任委員欣：對，我們原來就有題庫，但是我們會再強化。"],["葉委員元之：所以你今天來這邊，你完全沒有辦法說服我啦，我覺得這一千多萬元就是為了做而做，看不到任何的效益。好然後再來，你們核安會也不是只有這個網站是這個狀況喔，這些錢一千多萬元，我不知道核安會是不是覺得不是錢啦，就要做這個東西。","然後你們也有一個app，叫做核安e點通app，核安會的app，8年總共花了156萬元去做這個app，主委知道嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：知道。"],["葉委員元之：知道嘛，那你知道這個app的下載量，所有的平台比如說蘋果的系統、Android的系統，加起來它下載量是多少你知道嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：1萬多。"],["葉委員元之：1萬6,894次。好，8年花156萬元，然後實際上下載的量只有1萬6,894次。實際上下載的量你覺得高嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我們繼續努力。"],["葉委員元之：那你覺得高嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我覺得我們需要繼續努力。"],["葉委員元之：那你覺得高不高嘛？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我覺得我們應該提高。"],["葉委員元之：主委你覺得高不高？如果官員來這邊備詢這種態度的話……"],["張代理主任委員欣：沒有我是……"],["葉委員元之：你覺得高不高嘛？"],["張代理主任委員欣：就是因為我們希望更高。"],["葉委員元之：你覺得不高嘛，你覺得低嘛。"],["張代理主任委員欣：我希望更高。"],["葉委員元之：你覺得低嘛！"],["張代理主任委員欣：是。"],["葉委員元之：你已經花156萬元做一個app，下載量你自己都覺得不滿意了，你覺得要再高。你現在又要再花一千兩百多萬元去架這一個網站，這個網站裡面的內容，很多在你原本的網站就有；然後你說這個網站的溝通對象是醫護人員，但那些醫護人員平常他們本來就有受這些核輻射的訓練，他們才能取得證照；然後你現在又告訴我說，他們如果沒有來上你這個網站的話，他的知識可能不足，所以你覺得他們就是要終身學習，所以要上這個網站，但是你又講不出你之後怎麼配套，比如說要求他一定要來補時數，他的證照才延續。我的感覺啦，我今天跟你對談的感覺，你那個網站一千兩百多萬元就是丟到水裡啦。"],["張代理主任委員欣：跟委員報告，我們是第一年度以醫護人員為主。"],["葉委員元之：但以醫護人員你也講不出……"],["張代理主任委員欣：但是我們希望這一個輻射的平台，之後是跟輻射相關的業者或者關心的民眾都可以使用，只是第一年我們針對醫護……"],["葉委員元之：對，但是我光是跟你討論醫護，第一年醫護你花了一千兩百多萬元，為了醫護嘛、第一年嘛。但我光跟你討論醫護的這一塊，我覺得很多事情都沒有回答好啊。"],["張代理主任委員欣：對。"],["葉委員元之：什麼對？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我們醫護人員……"],["葉委員元之：今天我們政府要砸錢做一個東西，都不用去規劃所有事情，比如說網站出來之後給誰用、怎麼去配套？他如果不用的話，我們怎麼要求他用，或者說那個網站有多重要，重要到說他不用的話，他會如何如何。沒有一個完整的說法出來，錢就先花下去。然後今天來這邊回答問題也是，問你app下載量高或低，你說我覺得……一副就是來耍嘴皮子的樣子，一千兩百多萬元耶，不是錢嗎？","時間到，快到了，超過了。"],["張代理主任委員欣：基本上我覺得委員關切的部分……"],["葉委員元之：你補一個完整的效益評估，1,244萬元效益評估。"],["張代理主任委員欣：好，我們之後補給委員。"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候補？效益評估。你的細項為什麼要做一個網站，要花到一千兩百多萬元，到底為什麼。"],["張代理主任委員欣：我們一個月之內補給委員。"],["葉委員元之：所以你們沒有報告喔，你們沒有效益評估，要一個月，要去掰喔？"],["張代理主任委員欣：不是。"],["葉委員元之：這個報告應該現成的啊，為什麼要一個月？你們當初花錢做事情的時候，都會有一個效益評估啊，那個東西拿給我就好了。為什麼要一個月，還要去掰是不是？"],["張代理主任委員欣：沒有，我們就是補完整的報告。"],["葉委員元之：召委，可不可以請他……那個報告可以……"],["主席：會後好好的跟葉委員口頭報告或書面資料好嗎？"],["葉委員元之：沒有，請會後就是今天下班前，先把你們的一千兩百多萬元的效益評估報告，手上有的先送過來。"],["張代理主任委員欣：我們先把相關的資料提供給委員。"],["葉委員元之：對，今天下班前好嗎？召委可以嗎？"],["主席：先把相關的資料給葉委員。"],["張代理主任委員欣：今天我先把計畫相關的資料給委員。"],["葉委員元之：好謝謝。"],["主席：好，代理主委請回，謝謝葉元之委員的質詢。","今天登記質詢的委員，均已發言完畢。另有吳春城委員提出書面質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":358,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-9","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","林宜瑾","林倩綺","張雅琳","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","葉元之","吳春城"],"page_start":313,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請核能安全委員會代理主任委員張欣列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有\n關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家\n原子能科技研究院預算案（第二案至第四案僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310401_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}