{"error":false,"id":["157193"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157193,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157193","日期":"2024-11-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-19-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-20T13:18:24+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-20T13:23:10+08:00","影片長度":"00:04:46","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/be8492a9d81d8eabb5fa92e5a4e59f8de934a6858ea79529d632f63170caf1df19161ef466b908c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"13:18:24 - 13:23:10","會議時間":"2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.26284375,"end":3.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.079718750000001,"end":14.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.36909375,"end":23.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.33096875,"end":29.781593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.984093750000003,"end":31.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":31.92471875,"end":36.16034375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":36.548468750000005,"end":37.932218750000004,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":39.180968750000005,"end":40.00784375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.197843750000004,"end":42.876593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":43.87221875,"end":52.73159375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.90471875,"end":52.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.10721875,"end":52.782218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":52.782218750000006,"end":53.963468750000004,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.963468750000004,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":55.515968750000006,"end":56.08971875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.19096875,"end":56.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.439718750000004,"end":58.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":58.84034375,"end":60.73034375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.88221875000001,"end":63.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":63.88596875,"end":65.32034375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":65.45534375,"end":65.47221875000001,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.47221875000001,"end":67.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":65.57346875,"end":70.83846875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.62784375000001,"end":68.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":71.81721875000001,"end":95.45909375000001,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.26409375,"end":74.36534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.24284375,"end":75.79971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":95.54346875,"end":101.12909375000001,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.00721875,"end":102.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.08659375,"end":117.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":103.22159375000001,"end":103.28909375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":103.45784375000001,"end":103.96409375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":104.26784375000001,"end":104.35221875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":104.40284375,"end":104.45346875000001,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":104.68971875000001,"end":105.36471875000001,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.46409375,"end":128.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":119.60721875,"end":122.44221875000001,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":128.33159375,"end":129.96846875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.96846875,"end":130.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":130.03596875,"end":130.32284375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.32284375,"end":130.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":130.47471875000002,"end":130.54221875000002,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.54221875000002,"end":130.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":130.60971875,"end":130.62659375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.62659375,"end":130.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":130.67721875,"end":130.77846875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.77846875,"end":130.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":130.81221875,"end":130.84596875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.84596875,"end":131.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":131.03159375,"end":132.02721875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.02721875,"end":132.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":132.34784375,"end":132.76971875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":133.07346875000002,"end":136.29659375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.10721875000002,"end":133.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.29659375,"end":136.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":136.66784375,"end":138.11909375000002,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":138.50721875000002,"end":140.38034375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":140.73471875,"end":151.56846875000002,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":152.17596875,"end":155.53409375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.62721875,"end":155.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":156.74909375000001,"end":157.77846875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":158.08221875,"end":161.96346875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.44471875000002,"end":169.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":166.50284375,"end":167.16096875000002,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":168.89909375000002,"end":168.94971875000002,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":170.23221875000002,"end":172.08846875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.51471875000001,"end":173.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.13034375,"end":176.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.08346875,"end":177.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":177.11721875,"end":184.42409375000003,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.75846875000002,"end":178.53471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.56846875000002,"end":195.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":184.55909375000002,"end":185.52096875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":194.61659375000002,"end":196.92846875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.61221875,"end":203.07096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.25659375,"end":210.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":211.45784375000002,"end":216.57096875000002,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.31846875000002,"end":214.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.41096875000002,"end":220.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":217.12784375,"end":217.48221875000002,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":219.28784375,"end":232.46721875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.95846875,"end":222.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.52784375000002,"end":226.17284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.61971875,"end":254.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":233.32784375000003,"end":248.14409375000002,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.09659375,"end":263.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.63534375,"end":264.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":264.90096875,"end":265.15409375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.15409375,"end":268.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":268.47846875,"end":270.70596875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.17034375000003,"end":269.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.09409375,"end":273.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":273.05159375,"end":274.73909375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.95846875,"end":275.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":275.53221875,"end":278.95784375,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.49784375,"end":279.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":280.17284375,"end":283.96971875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.84784375000004,"end":281.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.94034375,"end":285.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":285.97784375000003,"end":286.23096875000005,"speaker_score":0.875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.683,"end":13.318,"text":"來 下一位諮詢 請葉元之委員麻煩請經濟部長請經濟部 郭部長"},{"start":24.609,"end":42.65,"text":"今天大家都非常好奇就是說為什麼你對台積電特別有興趣啊?可不可以講一下為什麼你對台積電會有興趣?對台積電有興趣因為台積電是台灣的護國神山嘛對當然啦那你一直要去了解什麼?你不是去熊本嗎?然後去幫忙這是幫忙什麼事?"},{"start":44.139,"end":70.109,"text":"幫忙他第一個台積電是從台灣第一個到日本這麼大投資的公司對我們當然希望他在那你做什麼具體有幫助到他的事情幫助他對不然你去幹嘛我當時瞭解他適不適應瞭解他適不適應那後來瞭解狀況怎麼樣瞭解他的狀況還不錯還不錯就是還不錯其實我對日本是非常瞭解的我大概這一輩子工作了50年"},{"start":72.432,"end":93.9,"text":"49年都是跟日本在玩的。 台積電是我以前就非常熟悉的公司,但是台積電過去在日本並琢磨的不深,特別是在九州地區。九州是一個比較保守的地區,不像東京或者是名古屋或者大阪,是比較接觸國外比較多的。"},{"start":94.6,"end":116.928,"text":"所以在九州地區唯一接觸比較多的﹖不想那個因為我時間非常有限那個昭緯對我很不友善大家看過了你就直接講你到底去看了什麼然後幫助到台積電什麼嘛因為你現在不是商人嘛你現在是部長嘛部長就是政府的職位你去協助一個護國參謀當然很棒可是你講一下你到底"},{"start":118.549,"end":140.105,"text":"你不是說我去觀光我去了解然後以後回到業界之後這些知識對我有幫助我在部長累積到我未來做生意的知識這樣不行嗎對不起委員那我來跟你報告你很簡單講一下好不好好因為台積電去到日本被要求60%的材料是要從日本買的是"},{"start":140.825,"end":154.536,"text":"但是台積電在台灣他們發展60%的材料是跟台灣買的是所以我要幫助台灣的供應鏈進入到日本現在進入不了嗎沒有進入不了但是你進去那現在成效怎麼樣你進去"},{"start":156.829,"end":176.536,"text":"你進去然後你還不要幫助他我懂了我懂了所以你的意思是說你去不是幫助台積電啦你去是幫助台灣的供應鏈的廠商去被日本的人買嘛那現在成效怎麼樣成效還沒開始還沒開始你們都不讓我去啊那你去就那你設定的成效是怎麼樣"},{"start":177.116,"end":178.997,"text":"上一次在我們院會的時候你特別請假禮拜二到禮拜五跑去熊本故意迴避總諮詢"},{"start":196.17,"end":209.985,"text":"為什麼那一次為什麼那一次要特別請2到5因為2到5就可以迴避嘛你為什麼不是1到4為什麼不是假日去那你去現在問你成效如何你說因為你們不讓我去所以講不出的說意所以你一個一年要去幾次你才滿意"},{"start":211.476,"end":229.789,"text":"答標為止答標那去幾次要去幾次嘛那要去對阿我現在覺得你是去玩的阿因為你就拿不出具體成像出來阿對不起這個委員你看我去玩我再跟你請教我給你因為你沒有講我去都有報告去都有報告你剛剛就講不出來我跟你講如果說"},{"start":233.251,"end":246.3,"text":"明確答案很明確的話部長不是因為你從外開空開你從盤古開源開始講起我們問的都很明確我們時間很有我們時間很有限如果我今天有20分鐘如果今天是一個談話會我讓你慢慢講那我們時間很有限那我再跟你請教一下因為美國商務部說啦有66億美元是補助台積電在美國的"},{"start":255.151,"end":277.852,"text":"然後希望臺電的A16先進技術製程要在美國,您有掌握到這個事嗎?我知道那你覺得這對台灣會有什麼影響?沒有影響那是好的影響嗎?啊?因為我剛在別的地方,你們次長講說這是好的影響當然啊為什麼?因為他還需要台灣啊所以,那會不會讓台灣的產業外移?不可能啊,不可能啊不可能A16的這個研發室在台灣有8000人對"},{"start":280.253,"end":283.396,"text":"阿 要完整的技術才有辦法移轉過去阿好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:18:36.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:18:37.038000+08:00","text":"麻煩請經濟郭部長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:18:37.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:18:37.318000+08:00","text":"請經濟部郭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:18:37.318000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:18:48.609000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:18:48.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:18:55.177000+08:00","text":"部長，今天大家都很好奇為什麼你對台積電特別有興趣，可不可以講一下為什麼你對台積電特別有興趣？","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:18:56.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:18:56.959000+08:00","text":"對台積電有興趣？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:18:57.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:18:59.222000+08:00","text":"因為台積電是臺灣的護國神山嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:18:59.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:03.266000+08:00","text":"對，當然啦，那你一直要去了解什麼？蛤？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:03.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:04.768000+08:00","text":"你不是去熊本嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:04.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:06.630000+08:00","text":"然後去幫忙，那是幫忙什麼事？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:08.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:14.421000+08:00","text":"幫忙它，第一個，台積電是臺灣第一個到日本投資這麼大的公司。對。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:14.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:15.222000+08:00","text":"我們當然希望它在日本……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:16.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:18.583000+08:00","text":"你做什麼具體幫助到它的事情？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:19.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:19.723000+08:00","text":"幫助它？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:20.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:21.784000+08:00","text":"對，不然你去幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:23.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:24.945000+08:00","text":"我當然是去了解它適不適應啊！","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:25.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:26.106000+08:00","text":"了解它適不適應？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:26.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:26.746000+08:00","text":"那後來你了解狀況如何？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:28.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:29.727000+08:00","text":"了解它的情況還不錯。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:29.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:30.087000+08:00","text":"還不錯？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:30.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:30.907000+08:00","text":"就是還不錯？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:30.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:37.913000+08:00","text":"其實我對日本是非常了解的，我大概這一輩子工作了50年，49年都是跟日本在往來……","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:37.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:19:40.614000+08:00","text":"所以你去……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:19:40.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:02.341000+08:00","text":"第二個，台積電是我以前就非常熟悉的公司，但是台積電過去在日本著墨並不深，特別是在九州地區，九州是一個比較保守的地區，不像東京、名古屋或者大阪是接觸國外比較多的，所以在九州地區唯一接觸比較多的……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:02.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:12.605000+08:00","text":"部長，因為我時間非常有限，召委對我很不友善，大家也看過了喔，你就直接講到底去看了什麼，然後幫助到台積電什麼嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:12.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:15.166000+08:00","text":"因為你現在不是商人，你現在是部長嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:15.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:20.908000+08:00","text":"部長就是政府的職位，你去協助護國神山當然很棒，可是你講一下你到底幫助什麼？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:22.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:31.495000+08:00","text":"你不是說我去觀光，我去了解，然後以後回到業界之後，這些知識對我有幫助，我當部長累積到我未來做生意的知識，這樣不行嘛！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:31.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:34.357000+08:00","text":"對不起，委員，那我來跟你報告……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:34.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:35.838000+08:00","text":"你很簡短講一下，好不好？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:36.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:53.872000+08:00","text":"好，因為台積電去到日本，被要求60%的材料是要從日本買的，但是台積電在臺灣，他們發展60%的材料是跟臺灣買的，所以我要幫助臺灣的供應鏈進入到日本。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:54.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:56.254000+08:00","text":"現在進入不了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:56.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:57.555000+08:00","text":"沒有進入不了，但是你進去……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:57.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:20:58.436000+08:00","text":"那現在成效怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:20:58.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:03.570000+08:00","text":"你進去，然後你還不要幫助它……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:04.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:10.452000+08:00","text":"我懂、我懂了，所以你的意思是說你去不是幫助台積電，你去是幫助臺灣供應鏈的廠商……沒錯。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:11.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:12.293000+08:00","text":"因為被日本的人買嘛！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:12.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:14.274000+08:00","text":"那現在成效怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:14.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:15.414000+08:00","text":"是，成效還沒開始。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:15.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:15.994000+08:00","text":"還沒開始？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:16.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:17.555000+08:00","text":"你們都不讓我去啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:18.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:20.536000+08:00","text":"那你設定的成效是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:20.536000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:21.536000+08:00","text":"我們設定……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:21.536000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:22.536000+08:00","text":"因為你講不出個所以然來，你不能怪我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:22.536000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:23.536000+08:00","text":"我沒有講不出來所以然，對不起，你不要……然後就套話……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:21.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:22.997000+08:00","text":"上一次……沒有套話，你已經講3分鐘，我都不知道你在講什麼，上一次在我們院會的時候，你特別請假，星期二到星期五跑去熊本，故意迴避總質詢……","quality":0.509},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:22.997000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:41.131000+08:00","text":"我沒有故意迴避總質詢……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:41.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:44.415000+08:00","text":"為什麼那一次要特別請二到五，因為二到五就可以迴避嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:44.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:45.195000+08:00","text":"你為什麼不是一到四？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:45.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:46.637000+08:00","text":"為什麼不是假日去？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:47.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:53.965000+08:00","text":"那你去，現在問你成效如何，你說因為你不讓我去，所以講不出所以然，所以你一年要去幾次，你才滿意？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:56.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:56.136000+08:00","text":"達標為止。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:57.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:57.738000+08:00","text":"達標要去幾次啊？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:57.738000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:58.738000+08:00","text":"不然我去幹什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:58.738000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:59.738000+08:00","text":"又不是去玩的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:21:57.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:21:58.458000+08:00","text":"要去幾次嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:00.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:03.422000+08:00","text":"對啊，我就覺得你是去玩的啊，因為你就拿不出具體成效出來啊！","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:03.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:06.263000+08:00","text":"對不起，這個委員，你看我去玩……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:06.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:09.045000+08:00","text":"我再跟你請教，因為你沒有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:09.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:12.148000+08:00","text":"我去都有報告、去都有報告，所跑的行程都有報告……","quality":0.55},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:13.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:18.532000+08:00","text":"你剛剛就講不出來，我跟你講，如果說答案很明確的話……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:18.532000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:19.532000+08:00","text":"我沒有講不出來，是你不讓我回答……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:18.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:23.035000+08:00","text":"部長，不是，因為你從外太空講起、從盤古開天開始講起，我們問的都很明確……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:23.035000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:24.035000+08:00","text":"你現在講這個，我怎麼講不出來？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:24.035000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:25.035000+08:00","text":"沒有時間！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:25.035000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:26.035000+08:00","text":"我怎麼講不出來？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:23.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:23.595000+08:00","text":"我們問得都很明確，我們時間很有限……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:23.595000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:24.595000+08:00","text":"每次都是這個樣子，都問一點點……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:23.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:27.358000+08:00","text":"如果我今天有20分鐘，如果說是一個談話會，我讓你慢慢講……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:27.358000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:28.358000+08:00","text":"時間有限，你不讓我講啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:27.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:27.838000+08:00","text":"那我們時間有限……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:27.838000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:28.838000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:27.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:44.596000+08:00","text":"我再跟你請教一下，因為美國商務部說，有66億美元是補助在美國的台積電，希望台積電的A16先進技術製程要在美國，您有掌握到這事嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:44.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:44.836000+08:00","text":"我知道啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:45.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:46.738000+08:00","text":"你覺得對臺灣會有什麼影響？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:46.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:47.739000+08:00","text":"沒有影響。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:47.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:48.940000+08:00","text":"那是好的影響嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:49.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:52.724000+08:00","text":"因為我剛剛在別的地方，你們次長講說這是好的影響。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:52.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:52.864000+08:00","text":"當然啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:53.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:53.524000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:53.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:54.365000+08:00","text":"因為它需要臺灣。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:55.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:57.027000+08:00","text":"所以那會不會讓臺灣的產業外移？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:57.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:58.489000+08:00","text":"不可能啊、不可能啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:58.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:22:59.210000+08:00","text":"不可能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:22:59.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:01.832000+08:00","text":"A16的研發室在臺灣有8,000人。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:01.832000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:05.054000+08:00","text":"對，我說美國……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:05.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:07.156000+08:00","text":"它要完整的技術才有辦法移轉過去。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:07.156000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:08.156000+08:00","text":"好，發言時間已到。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:07.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:07.396000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:07.896000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:09.610286+08:00","text":"要有一點禮貌。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:09.910286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:11.338857+08:00","text":"部長請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:11.638857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:14.781714+08:00","text":"羅明才、羅明才、羅明才不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:15.081714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:17.367429+08:00","text":"好，在場有沒有委員？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:17.667429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:19.667429+08:00","text":"有沒有躲起來的？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:19.967429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:20.967429+08:00","text":"沒有喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:21.267429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:41.553143+08:00","text":"主席主持會議，不管是哪個政黨、不管是誰，我都是一樣的標準，剛正不阿，絕對不會對特定人不友善，我想說的是，在這邊要說一些正經話，不要說太多淘氣話，畢竟這是國會殿堂。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:41.853143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:48.996000+08:00","text":"好，登記發言委員除不在場之外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:49.296000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:23:54.724571+08:00","text":"委員林德福所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:23:55.024571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:24:03.596000+08:00","text":"書面質詢及未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1232,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（13時18分）麻煩請經濟郭部長。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長，今天大家都很好奇為什麼你對台積電特別有興趣，可不可以講一下為什麼你對台積電特別有興趣？"],["郭部長智輝：對台積電有興趣？因為台積電是臺灣的護國神山嘛！"],["葉委員元之：對，當然啦，那你一直要去了解什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：蛤？"],["葉委員元之：你不是去熊本嗎？然後去幫忙，那是幫忙什麼事？"],["郭部長智輝：幫忙它，第一個，台積電是臺灣第一個到日本投資這麼大的公司。"],["葉委員元之：對。"],["郭部長智輝：我們當然希望它在日本……"],["葉委員元之：你做什麼具體幫助到它的事情？"],["郭部長智輝：幫助它？"],["葉委員元之：對，不然你去幹嘛？"],["郭部長智輝：我當然是去了解它適不適應啊！"],["葉委員元之：了解它適不適應？那後來你了解狀況如何？"],["郭部長智輝：了解它的情況還不錯。"],["葉委員元之：還不錯？就是還不錯？"],["郭部長智輝：其實我對日本是非常了解的，我大概這一輩子工作了50年，49年都是跟日本在往來……"],["葉委員元之：所以你去……"],["郭部長智輝：第二個，台積電是我以前就非常熟悉的公司，但是台積電過去在日本著墨並不深，特別是在九州地區，九州是一個比較保守的地區，不像東京、名古屋或者大阪是接觸國外比較多的，所以在九州地區唯一接觸比較多的……"],["葉委員元之：部長，因為我時間非常有限，召委對我很不友善，大家也看過了喔，你就直接講到底去看了什麼，然後幫助到台積電什麼嘛！因為你現在不是商人，你現在是部長嘛！部長就是政府的職位，你去協助護國神山當然很棒，可是你講一下你到底幫助什麼？你不是說我去觀光，我去了解，然後以後回到業界之後，這些知識對我有幫助，我當部長累積到我未來做生意的知識，這樣不行嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：對不起，委員，那我來跟你報告……"],["葉委員元之：你很簡短講一下，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好，因為台積電去到日本，被要求60%的材料是要從日本買的，但是台積電在臺灣，他們發展60%的材料是跟臺灣買的，所以我要幫助臺灣的供應鏈進入到日本。"],["葉委員元之：現在進入不了嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有進入不了，但是你進去……"],["葉委員元之：那現在成效怎麼樣？"],["郭部長智輝：你進去，然後你還不要幫助它……"],["葉委員元之：我懂、我懂了，所以你的意思是說你去不是幫助台積電，你去是幫助臺灣供應鏈的廠商……"],["郭部長智輝：沒錯。"],["葉委員元之：因為被日本的人買嘛！那現在成效怎麼樣？"],["郭部長智輝：是，成效還沒開始。"],["葉委員元之：還沒開始？"],["郭部長智輝：你們都不讓我去啊！"],["葉委員元之：那你設定的成效是怎麼樣？"],["郭部長智輝：我們設定……"],["葉委員元之：因為你講不出個所以然來，你不能怪我們……"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有講不出來所以然，對不起，你不要……然後就套話……"],["葉委員元之：上一次……沒有套話，你已經講3分鐘，我都不知道你在講什麼，上一次在我們院會的時候，你特別請假，星期二到星期五跑去熊本，故意迴避總質詢……"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有故意迴避總質詢……"],["葉委員元之：為什麼那一次要特別請二到五，因為二到五就可以迴避嘛！你為什麼不是一到四？為什麼不是假日去？那你去，現在問你成效如何，你說因為你不讓我去，所以講不出所以然，所以你一年要去幾次，你才滿意？"],["郭部長智輝：達標為止。"],["葉委員元之：達標要去幾次啊？"],["郭部長智輝：不然我去幹什麼？又不是去玩的。"],["葉委員元之：要去幾次嘛？對啊，我就覺得你是去玩的啊，因為你就拿不出具體成效出來啊！"],["郭部長智輝：對不起，這個委員，你看我去玩……"],["葉委員元之：我再跟你請教，因為你沒有……"],["郭部長智輝：我去都有報告、去都有報告，所跑的行程都有報告……"],["葉委員元之：你剛剛就講不出來，我跟你講，如果說答案很明確的話……"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有講不出來，是你不讓我回答……"],["葉委員元之：部長，不是，因為你從外太空講起、從盤古開天開始講起，我們問的都很明確……"],["郭部長智輝：你現在講這個，我怎麼講不出來？沒有時間！我怎麼講不出來？"],["葉委員元之：我們問得都很明確，我們時間很有限……"],["郭部長智輝：每次都是這個樣子，都問一點點……"],["葉委員元之：如果我今天有20分鐘，如果說是一個談話會，我讓你慢慢講……"],["郭部長智輝：時間有限，你不讓我講啊！"],["葉委員元之：那我們時間有限……"],["郭部長智輝：對不對？"],["葉委員元之：我再跟你請教一下，因為美國商務部說，有66億美元是補助在美國的台積電，希望台積電的A16先進技術製程要在美國，您有掌握到這事嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我知道啊！"],["葉委員元之：你覺得對臺灣會有什麼影響？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有影響。"],["葉委員元之：那是好的影響嗎？因為我剛剛在別的地方，你們次長講說這是好的影響。"],["郭部長智輝：當然啊！"],["葉委員元之：為什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：因為它需要臺灣。"],["葉委員元之：所以那會不會讓臺灣的產業外移？"],["郭部長智輝：不可能啊、不可能啊！"],["葉委員元之：不可能？"],["郭部長智輝：A16的研發室在臺灣有8,000人。"],["葉委員元之：對，我說美國……"],["郭部長智輝：它要完整的技術才有辦法移轉過去。"],["主席：好，發言時間已到。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["主席：要有一點禮貌。部長請回座。","羅明才、羅明才、羅明才不在。","好，在場有沒有委員？有沒有躲起來的？沒有喔！主席主持會議，不管是哪個政黨、不管是誰，我都是一樣的標準，剛正不阿，絕對不會對特定人不友善，我想說的是，在這邊要說一些正經話，不要說太多淘氣話，畢竟這是國會殿堂。","好，登記發言委員除不在場之外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員林德福所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢及未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-15","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","陳超明","羅智強","賴士葆","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","呂玉玲","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","葉元之","林德福"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣電力股份有限公\n司、台灣自來水股份有限公司（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}