{"error":false,"id":["157197"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157197,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157197","日期":"2024-11-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-2-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[20,15,19,22,23,26],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會","內政委員會","經濟委員會","教育及文化委員會","交通委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-20T13:24:39+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-20T13:31:52+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:13","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/be8492a9d81d8eabed1e3a1a779b7a901ff0707298ac1983d632f63170caf1dfb70b6df063f2d9295ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"13:24:39 - 13:31:52","會議時間":"2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、邀請相關部會首長就「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算執行情形及成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案(114年度)」（僅詢答）。\n【預算提案截止時間：11月27日（三）中午12時】\n【11月20日及21日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.51596875,"end":9.025343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.29596875,"end":5.498468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.56534375,"end":11.168468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.52596875,"end":19.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.977218750000002,"end":20.027843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.19659375,"end":22.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.031593750000003,"end":24.044093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.938468750000002,"end":25.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.96784375,"end":26.507843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.879093750000003,"end":28.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.97159375,"end":29.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.34284375,"end":32.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.173468750000005,"end":41.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.08346875,"end":43.517843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.838468750000004,"end":48.462218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.884093750000005,"end":51.516593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.97221875,"end":58.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.75596875,"end":70.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.99034375000001,"end":80.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.30096875000001,"end":93.55221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.70409375000001,"end":110.41034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.78159375000001,"end":118.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.11784375,"end":123.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.64034375000001,"end":136.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.27534375000002,"end":147.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.36284375,"end":144.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.17659375000002,"end":151.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.55159375000002,"end":153.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.67346875,"end":156.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.90096875,"end":158.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.28471875,"end":180.64409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.94784375,"end":212.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.89221875,"end":215.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.77784375000002,"end":246.06846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.13596875000002,"end":253.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.91534375,"end":259.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.38284375,"end":263.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.52534375,"end":319.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.42346875000004,"end":269.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.36909375000005,"end":324.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.38534375,"end":327.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.99659375000005,"end":341.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.63159375000004,"end":342.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.01534375,"end":349.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.30534375,"end":356.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.59534375000004,"end":360.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.46409375,"end":376.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.27159375,"end":388.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.32034375,"end":390.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.19346875,"end":406.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.54534375000003,"end":416.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.52721875000003,"end":420.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.13471875000005,"end":417.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.84721875,"end":420.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.31971875000005,"end":420.35346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.38721875000005,"end":425.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.52471875000003,"end":432.97596875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.907,"end":10.795,"text":"謝謝主席等一下兩個單位先原民會後面國發會原民會原民會主委曾主委國發會副主委曾副主委"},{"start":25.26,"end":41.001,"text":"主委好委員好您很清楚我們原鄉就是原住民的鄉鎮它的財務結構絕大多數都是仰賴中央的補助而且比例很高我隨便抽三個"},{"start":42.142,"end":45.103,"text":"以牡丹鄉來講,仰賴中央62%,堅實鄉56%,桃園區89%。所以呢,對我們來講,我們很需要中央的挹注,那你們園民會,"},{"start":58.729,"end":60.67,"text":"〈中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案),"},{"start":81.437,"end":101.582,"text":"所以原鄉是因為地區幅員遼闊我們所需要處理的地方的基礎建設非常的多所以對公所來講負擔呢非常的大那這幾年我們有前瞻的預算我們來看一下前瞻基礎建設預算以你們原民會來看"},{"start":102.682,"end":121.031,"text":"如果我們看這個其中一個項目叫做部落內的公共設施改善成果很豐碩喔特別是像文件站這個部分空間的整建也得到很豐碩的成果那我們來看一下在第4期預算也就是112年到113年"},{"start":123.692,"end":143.594,"text":"以這個我剛剛講的部落內的公共設施改善你們編了3.2億但是第5期1000萬所以想要問主委落差這麼大那麼編列的時候你們是怎麼評估那因為時間的關係你也先不用回答等一下統一回答"},{"start":144.235,"end":161.164,"text":"好,為什麼我這樣問?我們來看你們別的科目以這個多元產業2.0在第4期的時候編了6億第5期編了4億你看這個落差太大了那我們來看以我講的這個6億然後編成4億"},{"start":163.985,"end":188.015,"text":"他的一個預算跟決算你看原本7000萬結果實際是2800萬然後看各地方政府的執行率也都在兩成、四成、五成甚至有人是8%所以這樣的一個方式我就要提醒我要請教主委你看我們依賴我們百廢待舉啊"},{"start":190.416,"end":211.947,"text":"尤其是推動文件站之後全國有幾百個文件站幾乎每個部落都有這個是很重要的一個對我們原鄉的一個政策可是我們用的都是什麼你最清楚我們用的是閒置的派出所、閒置的檢查照、閒置的學校、閒置的衛生所等等等"},{"start":212.987,"end":239.69,"text":"那些都是不安全結構的百廢待舉啊甚至你也最清楚知道我們有很多的困擾是來自於我們根本土地不合法也沒有建造也沒有實用執照連要爭取政府的補助都爭取不來所以我要講的是說部落這麼多傳統屋、入口意象、文件站、活動中心、運動空間、集會所、家屋等等等"},{"start":240.33,"end":262.359,"text":"我們太需要園民會挹注經費來改善,所以我想請教主委,你會調整嗎?你會願意去處理這些問題嗎?例如編經費去處理補照的問題,可以嗎?可以,我跟你講可以,我們可以來研究,而且我們也在往這個方向在走。好,那我希望一周內來說明好不好?再請教一下國發會。"},{"start":265.838,"end":276.304,"text":"副主委您好剩下一點點時間我就快速講我要說的是這幾年對我們原鄉來講我們聽到地方創生都很興奮都很願意報計畫可是我隨便講一個以農業部來講我們可以看到我隨便抽一個他說經費編3.59億然後執行率53.88%這個執行率很差甚至他提到說"},{"start":293.494,"end":319.439,"text":"促進青年參與才50人次這個質詢力不好吧但是我沒有要講農業部因為都差不多為什麼因為我舉個例子尤其是我們原鄉很辛苦啊我們碰到很多土地的問題法規的問題我舉個例子他想要做溫室不行想要做雞售不行想要做加工廠不行想要做小型屠宰場什麼都不行"},{"start":320.439,"end":322.621,"text":"中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案 ．"},{"start":343.275,"end":359.748,"text":"國土計畫法上路有一個第23條給我們一個原住民族土地管制規則來解套可是我要說的是我們也應該要想辦法不能夠一年一年看著執行率不佳我們要去正視像是我常常講"},{"start":360.569,"end":376.272,"text":"可不可以做一個沙盒計畫鬆綁一些法規找一些事辦場域而且要立法像我們原住民我們就很想要原保條例提升法律外接要不然我們怎麼面對水保法森林法什麼都不能做"},{"start":377.373,"end":406.733,"text":"所以地方創生促進法我不知道什麼名字我不知道國發會有沒有這個想法那總之從105年開始講108年創生元年到現在快要10年了所以我覺得我們包括我們的融資的優惠針對這一些提供融資、租稅、金融的優惠應該要另立專法或專案的方式我想日本之所以成功就是我剛剛講的他都做到了所以副主委您怎麼看"},{"start":407.974,"end":408.254,"text":"李坤澤委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:24:40.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:24:46.072000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（13時24分）謝謝主席，等一下兩個單位，先原民會，後面國發會。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:24:46.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:24:49.115000+08:00","text":"好，原民會曾主委、國發會詹副主委。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:24:49.115000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:25:05.061000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主委好。","quality":0.16},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2024-11-20T13:25:05.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:25:05.262000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:25:06.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:25:23.783000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：您很清楚，我們原鄉，就是原住民的鄉鎮，它的財務結構絕大多數都是仰賴中央補助，而且比例很高，我隨便抽3個，以牡丹鄉來講，仰賴中央62%，尖石鄉56%，桃源區89%，所以對我們來講，我們很需要中央的挹注。","quality":0.757},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:25:23.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:26:12.100000+08:00","text":"你們原民會這些年有補助地方叫做基本設施維持費，這個對原鄉來講很重要，可是我們以面積來看，全臺最大鄉鎮面積排名，前23名全部是原鄉，原鄉地區因為幅員遼闊，所需要處理的地方基礎建設非常的多，所以對公所來講，負擔非常的大。","quality":0.454},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:26:13.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:26:28.925000+08:00","text":"這幾年我們有前瞻的預算，前瞻基礎建設預算以原民會來看，其中一個項目叫做部落內公共設施改善，成果很豐碩哦！","quality":0.979},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:26:29.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:26:36.049000+08:00","text":"特別是像文健站這個部分，空間的整建也得到很豐碩的成果。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:26:38.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:26:58.530000+08:00","text":"在第4期預算，也就是112年到113年，以我剛剛講的部落內公共設施改善，你們編了3.2億，但是第5期編1,000萬，所以想要問主委，落差這麼大，那麼編列的時候你們是怎麼評估？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:26:59.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:27:02.574000+08:00","text":"因為時間的關係，你先不用回答，等一下統一回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:27:03.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:27:05.136000+08:00","text":"好，為什麼我這樣問？","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:27:05.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:27:18.023000+08:00","text":"我們來看你們別的科目，以多元產業2.0來說，在第4期的時候編了6億，第5期編了4億，這個落差太大了！","quality":0.949},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:27:19.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:27:46.995000+08:00","text":"以我講的這個6億，然後編成4億，它的預算跟決算，你看，原本7,000萬，結果實際是2,800萬，然後各地方政府的執行率也都在二成、四成、五成，甚至有人是8%，所以這樣的一個方式，我要提醒並請教主委，你看，我們倚賴，我們百廢待舉啊！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:27:49.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:28:02.422000+08:00","text":"尤其是推動文健站之後，全國有幾百個文健站，幾乎每個部落都有，這對原鄉是很重要的一個政策，可是我們用的都是什麼？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:28:02.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:28:14.069000+08:00","text":"你最清楚，我們用的是閒置的派出所、閒置的檢查哨、閒置的學校、閒置的衛生所等等等，那些都是不安全結構啊！","quality":0.956},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:28:14.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:28:15.870000+08:00","text":"百廢待舉啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:28:16.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:28:46.613000+08:00","text":"甚至你也最清楚知道，我們有很多的困擾是來自於土地根本不合法，也沒有建照，也沒有使用執照，連要爭取政府的補助都爭取不來，所以我要講的是說，部落這麼多傳統屋、入口意象、文健站、活動中心、運動空間、集會所、家屋等等等，我們太需要原民會挹注經費來改善，所以我想請教主委，你會調整嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:28:46.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:28:49.074000+08:00","text":"你願意去處理這些問題嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:28:49.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:28:52.955000+08:00","text":"例如編經費去處理補照的問題，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2024-11-20T13:28:53.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:28:57.877000+08:00","text":"可以，我們可以來研究，而且我們也往這個方向在做。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:28:58.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:00.078000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，我希望一週內來說明，好不好？好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:00.078000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:04.838000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：再請教一下國發會。","quality":0.267},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:04.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:08.480000+08:00","text":"副主委您好，剩下一點點時間我就快速講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2024-11-20T13:29:08.480000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:09.480000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:08.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:11.522000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我要說的是，這幾年對我們原鄉來講，我們聽到地方創生都很興奮欸！","quality":0.54},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:11.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:11.922000+08:00","text":"都很願意報計畫欸！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:11.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:14.304000+08:00","text":"可是我隨便講一個，以農業部來講，我們可以看到，我隨便抽一個，它說經費編3.59億，然後執行率53.88%，這個執行率很差欸！","quality":0.958},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:14.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:37.115000+08:00","text":"甚至它提到說促進青年參與才50人次，這個執行率不好吧！","quality":0.826},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:37.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:42.496000+08:00","text":"但是我沒有要講農業部，因為都差不多，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:42.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:46.377000+08:00","text":"因為我舉個例子，尤其是我們原鄉，很辛苦啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:46.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:52.518000+08:00","text":"我們碰到很多土地的問題、法規的問題，我舉個例子，他想要做溫室，不行！","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:53.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:54.118000+08:00","text":"想要做雞舍，不行！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:54.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:55.758000+08:00","text":"想要做加工廠，不行！","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:56.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:29:58.419000+08:00","text":"想要做小型屠宰場，什麼都不行！","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:29:58.419000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:30:04.383000+08:00","text":"這個怎麼執行？","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:30:04.383000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:30:10.347000+08:00","text":"怎麼地方創生？","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:30:10.347000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:30:16.311000+08:00","text":"您應該很清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:30:16.311000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:30:22.275000+08:00","text":"我們常常在講，像我們處處受限制，原鄉大部分都在國家公園保留地、原保地、土地重劃區，它一旦遇到法規，曠日廢時，很辛苦，所以很難有執行率。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:30:22.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:30:32.523000+08:00","text":"我常常說，我們好在國土計畫法上路，有第二十三條給我們一個原住民族土地管制規則來解套，可是我要說的是，我們也應該要想辦法啊！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:30:33.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:30:42.293000+08:00","text":"不能夠一年一年看著執行率不佳，我們要去正視，像是我常常講的，可不可以做一個沙盒計畫？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:30:42.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:30:45.938000+08:00","text":"鬆綁一些法規，找一些試辦場域，而且要立法啊！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:30:46.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:30:54.150000+08:00","text":"像我們原住民就很想要原保條例，提升法律位階，要不然我們怎麼面對水保法、森林法？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:30:54.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:30:55.252000+08:00","text":"什麼都不能做！","quality":1},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:30:56.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:31:09.142000+08:00","text":"所以地方創生促進法，我不知道什麼名字，我不知道國發會有沒有這個想法，總之，從105年開始講，108年創生元年到現在，快要10年了欸！","quality":0.98},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:31:10.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:31:25.713000+08:00","text":"我覺得包括我們融資的優惠，針對這一些提供融資、租稅、金融的優惠，應該要另立專法或專案的方式，我想日本之所以成功，就是我剛剛講的它都做到了，所以副主委，您怎麼看？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2024-11-20T13:31:25.713000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:31:26.713000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，的確是面臨很多的限制，委員剛剛提到專法的部分，我們過去也有討論過，是不是容我們會後把我們研議的結果跟委員報告？","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:31:26.713000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:31:27.713000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那一樣，一週內來我辦公室，我們來討論，可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2024-11-20T13:31:27.713000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:31:28.713000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2024-11-20T13:31:28.713000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:31:29.713000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝副主委，謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:31:29.713000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T13:31:30.713000+08:00","text":"謝謝伍麗華委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T13:31:26.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T13:31:27.254000+08:00","text":"接著請李昆澤委員。","quality":0.5}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2128,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（13時24分）謝謝主席，等一下兩個單位，先原民會，後面國發會。"],["主席：好，原民會曾主委、國發會詹副主委。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主委好。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：您很清楚，我們原鄉，就是原住民的鄉鎮，它的財務結構絕大多數都是仰賴中央補助，而且比例很高，我隨便抽3個，以牡丹鄉來講，仰賴中央62%，尖石鄉56%，桃源區89%，所以對我們來講，我們很需要中央的挹注。","你們原民會這些年有補助地方叫做基本設施維持費，這個對原鄉來講很重要，可是我們以面積來看，全臺最大鄉鎮面積排名，前23名全部是原鄉，原鄉地區因為幅員遼闊，所需要處理的地方基礎建設非常的多，所以對公所來講，負擔非常的大。","這幾年我們有前瞻的預算，前瞻基礎建設預算以原民會來看，其中一個項目叫做部落內公共設施改善，成果很豐碩哦！特別是像文健站這個部分，空間的整建也得到很豐碩的成果。在第4期預算，也就是112年到113年，以我剛剛講的部落內公共設施改善，你們編了3.2億，但是第5期編1,000萬，所以想要問主委，落差這麼大，那麼編列的時候你們是怎麼評估？因為時間的關係，你先不用回答，等一下統一回答。","好，為什麼我這樣問？我們來看你們別的科目，以多元產業2.0來說，在第4期的時候編了6億，第5期編了4億，這個落差太大了！以我講的這個6億，然後編成4億，它的預算跟決算，你看，原本7,000萬，結果實際是2,800萬，然後各地方政府的執行率也都在二成、四成、五成，甚至有人是8%，所以這樣的一個方式，我要提醒並請教主委，你看，我們倚賴，我們百廢待舉啊！尤其是推動文健站之後，全國有幾百個文健站，幾乎每個部落都有，這對原鄉是很重要的一個政策，可是我們用的都是什麼？你最清楚，我們用的是閒置的派出所、閒置的檢查哨、閒置的學校、閒置的衛生所等等等，那些都是不安全結構啊！百廢待舉啊！","甚至你也最清楚知道，我們有很多的困擾是來自於土地根本不合法，也沒有建照，也沒有使用執照，連要爭取政府的補助都爭取不來，所以我要講的是說，部落這麼多傳統屋、入口意象、文健站、活動中心、運動空間、集會所、家屋等等等，我們太需要原民會挹注經費來改善，所以我想請教主委，你會調整嗎？你願意去處理這些問題嗎？例如編經費去處理補照的問題，可以嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：可以，我們可以來研究，而且我們也往這個方向在做。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，我希望一週內來說明，好不好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：再請教一下國發會。副主委您好，剩下一點點時間我就快速講。"],["詹副主任委員方冠：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我要說的是，這幾年對我們原鄉來講，我們聽到地方創生都很興奮欸！都很願意報計畫欸！可是我隨便講一個，以農業部來講，我們可以看到，我隨便抽一個，它說經費編3.59億，然後執行率53.88%，這個執行率很差欸！甚至它提到說促進青年參與才50人次，這個執行率不好吧！但是我沒有要講農業部，因為都差不多，為什麼？因為我舉個例子，尤其是我們原鄉，很辛苦啊！我們碰到很多土地的問題、法規的問題，我舉個例子，他想要做溫室，不行！想要做雞舍，不行！想要做加工廠，不行！想要做小型屠宰場，什麼都不行！這個怎麼執行？怎麼地方創生？您應該很清楚。","我們常常在講，像我們處處受限制，原鄉大部分都在國家公園保留地、原保地、土地重劃區，它一旦遇到法規，曠日廢時，很辛苦，所以很難有執行率。我常常說，我們好在國土計畫法上路，有第二十三條給我們一個原住民族土地管制規則來解套，可是我要說的是，我們也應該要想辦法啊！不能夠一年一年看著執行率不佳，我們要去正視，像是我常常講的，可不可以做一個沙盒計畫？鬆綁一些法規，找一些試辦場域，而且要立法啊！像我們原住民就很想要原保條例，提升法律位階，要不然我們怎麼面對水保法、森林法？什麼都不能做！所以地方創生促進法，我不知道什麼名字，我不知道國發會有沒有這個想法，總之，從105年開始講，108年創生元年到現在，快要10年了欸！我覺得包括我們融資的優惠，針對這一些提供融資、租稅、金融的優惠，應該要另立專法或專案的方式，我想日本之所以成功，就是我剛剛講的它都做到了，所以副主委，您怎麼看？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：謝謝委員，的確是面臨很多的限制，委員剛剛提到專法的部分，我們過去也有討論過，是不是容我們會後把我們研議的結果跟委員報告？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那一樣，一週內來我辦公室，我們來討論，可以嗎？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：是，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝副主委，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員。","接著請李昆澤委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":312,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","李坤城","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","林宜瑾","郭國文","賴惠員","賴士葆","洪孟楷","顏寬恒","萬美玲","王世堅","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張雅琳","柯志恩","王鴻薇","陳超明","陳菁徽","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李昆澤","黃秀芳","吳沛憶","林月琴","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","李柏毅","張智倫","李彥秀","黃健豪","徐富癸","張宏陸","謝衣鳯","楊瓊瓔","劉建國","范雲","游顥","林倩綺","王正旭","何欣純","羅明才","鄭正鈐","王育敏","葛如鈞","邱志偉","羅廷瑋","盧縣一","吳春城","黃珊珊","林俊憲","黃國昌","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","蔡其昌","張嘉郡","陳素月","邱議瑩","葉元之","邱鎮軍","蔡易餘"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請相關部會首長就「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算執行情形及成效」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢；二、審查行政院函請審議「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第 5 期特別預算案\n（114年度）」（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}