{"error":false,"id":["157216"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157216,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157216","日期":"2024-11-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-2-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[20,15,19,22,23,26],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會","內政委員會","經濟委員會","教育及文化委員會","交通委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-20T14:27:06+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-20T14:36:00+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:54","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/be8492a9d81d8eabda0330e6ca713ed41ff0707298ac19837384dc14fd4f58a51db97a0ba832a5a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"14:27:06 - 14:36:00","會議時間":"2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、邀請相關部會首長就「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算執行情形及成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案(114年度)」（僅詢答）。\n【預算提案截止時間：11月27日（三）中午12時】\n【11月20日及21日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.4697187500000001,"end":1.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.93784375,"end":4.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.806593750000001,"end":7.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.11846875,"end":8.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.02971875,"end":11.067218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.09721875,"end":10.965968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.961593750000002,"end":15.505343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.46659375,"end":21.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.500343750000003,"end":21.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.22159375,"end":23.723468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.36471875,"end":26.153468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.65971875,"end":37.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.674718750000004,"end":42.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.75034375,"end":41.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.13846875,"end":41.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.52221875,"end":51.195968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.44909375,"end":53.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.992843750000006,"end":61.641593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.557218750000004,"end":77.95971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.83846875,"end":71.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.74534375,"end":73.72409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.80346875000001,"end":81.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.60034375000001,"end":91.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.08409375000001,"end":95.25659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.74596875,"end":106.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.01596875,"end":97.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.00721875,"end":99.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.74034375000001,"end":105.55034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.74846875,"end":107.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.46971875000001,"end":115.50659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.96221875,"end":116.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.28284375000001,"end":119.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.50596875000001,"end":151.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.91034375000001,"end":125.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.92784375000002,"end":147.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.12534375,"end":158.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.81721875000002,"end":159.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.09471875,"end":178.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.16471875000002,"end":174.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":174.02909375000002,"end":175.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":179.46284375000002,"end":180.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.01534375,"end":181.55534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.01096875000002,"end":187.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.71034375000002,"end":189.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.76909375000002,"end":192.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.63784375,"end":210.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":210.44534375,"end":217.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.76909375000002,"end":221.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.48159375,"end":229.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.68284375000002,"end":234.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.54721875,"end":235.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.01534375000003,"end":235.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.44971875000002,"end":262.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.00284375,"end":263.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.31471875,"end":310.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.10471875,"end":311.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.56034375,"end":312.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.43784375,"end":313.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.73721875,"end":314.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.42471875,"end":319.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.74034375,"end":328.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.63034375,"end":324.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.10221875,"end":331.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":331.55721875,"end":332.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.33346875,"end":335.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":332.35034375000004,"end":333.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.40471875000003,"end":336.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.48909375,"end":337.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.3240937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上有疑慮的也都少過一波,全部都做了改建。校舍的改建?你與其圖圖摸摸,還倒不如正本清源的方法就是校舍的改建。你滿不滿意?你回答我兩個字嘛。"},{"start":116.002,"end":124.605,"text":"你現在有350億要做校舍的改建你要到114年才開始做你如果當時第一年就有想法就早就可以開始做我跟你講幾個數字如果我們當時全台灣超過50年以上的校舍有2200棟超過30年有8300棟我在這邊我只是要提醒部長"},{"start":143.251,"end":149.642,"text":"與其擦脂抹粉、正本清源的方法其實我們都知道該改建的其實就是要改建因為圖圖摸摸幾年之後"},{"start":152.142,"end":152.162,"text":"委員長"},{"start":182.218,"end":182.759,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":193.683,"end":217.112,"text":"好 我給你答案 因為我時間不夠一個是112年是113年是200億112年是240億好 這個部分我請邱部長回應我有沒有做醫療院所的健保的點值的補充有沒有維持健保的運作有沒有做點值的補充 有沒有報告委員 去年112年是有補大概將近179億那今年還沒有有就對 今年還沒有好 那我就要請問主計長"},{"start":221.627,"end":221.727,"text":"主席"},{"start":236.736,"end":244.018,"text":"請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院"},{"start":261.281,"end":279.239,"text":"你聽到沒有啦我希望沒有啦我聽說的是這樣子啦我覺得讓專業的去做專業的處理你就在裁員預算上處理最後交給衛福部好主席長你可以請回我接下來要請彭部長因為我時間已經剩下我盡量不要佔用別人的時間邱部長你也留步"},{"start":280.44,"end":299.647,"text":"因為接下來我要關心醫療院所的環境問題。前瞻彭部長,前瞻現在撥了2億元用在推動廢污水資源化的管理也好,或者2.73億去改善水資源或污染的設施,用4.42億元來用於減碳跟氣候的治理。"},{"start":304.309,"end":319.42,"text":"我們現在檢探的部分分三個部分一個是直接排放、間接排放還有其他的間接排放那這個部分我請問環境部在這一塊我們協助的衛福部什麼東西"},{"start":320.822,"end":341.995,"text":"是,跟委員報告我們現在跟環境部第一個就是先幫醫院這邊做你只有幫他開了一場會議叫做領航營對不對?是那怎麼幫醫院檢探?沒有做嘛對不對?現在正在做這個深度檢探會等一下等一下你暫停一下今天沒有部長喔?三點區開另外一個會"},{"start":344.534,"end":370.288,"text":"有跟你講嗎?明天還會再來嗎?今天如果講不完,明天就會來。我明天有第二輪嗎?沒有喔?你繼續問,你繼續問,現在繼續問。那您是副部長是不是?我是次長,政務次長。那你可以回應我齁?是。不然我在這邊罵蔣老半天沒有用啊,招惹有意義嗎?沒有,你繼續問齁,我要問清楚。"},{"start":371.001,"end":394.836,"text":"好,你現在環境部要求你公告一個修正排放流水的標準但是我們知道要配合你這個排放流水事實上在醫療院所他為什麼要放他放流水的時候他有放一個有效餘濾他加了濾在裡頭他加了濾的目的就是為了要滅菌對不對?邱部長"},{"start":396.317,"end":396.357,"text":"主席"},{"start":416.522,"end":431.346,"text":"所以他現在醫院醫療院所最大的問題是他沒有足夠的空間沒有足夠的設備他已經穿著西裝沒有辦法去改變太多其他的設施所以我請問你前瞻的預算在這一塊到底能怎麼協助幫助他你要怎麼幫他你有辦法回復我嗎"},{"start":439.697,"end":461.055,"text":"你不是幫他開一場臨航座談會然後其他什麼都不管然後叫他符合你的標準他沒有辦法耶醫院醫療院所就這麼小不要看我們其他幾個醫院他怎麼樣去做這些設備符合你的標準他流水設備他沒辦法改地下水管沒辦法改他就是沒有辦法嘛那要符合你的標準要不然就被你開罰那要不然後面就是製造更多的病菌出來啊這個怎麼解決"},{"start":467.836,"end":495.468,"text":"邱部長你要幫他背嗎?你不要幫他背啊!你不幫他背我後面就找你喔!根本報告齁放流水標準把那個餘率設定為兩個ppm以下是不希望說放流水裡面的餘率太多擺到水裡面會影響水平你這個我都知道意思嘛是那你沒有去想說醫療用水現在持續的狀況是怎麼樣你怎麼樣去輔導他嘛所以我這樣啦具體的結論啦"},{"start":497.219,"end":523.497,"text":"因為你們有這些預算嘛你有水資源改善跟污水設施的改善計畫嘛你跟衛福部好好研究一下這筆經費怎麼樣協助他做改善好 謝謝看要撥多少經費我下一個議題非常謝謝委員對這個議題的關心我們會一起跟環境部一起來努力那結論要告訴我不然我就再回來了好 一定好 謝謝委員 謝謝"},{"start":525.281,"end":527.105,"text":"謝謝李延秀委員﹗接著請黃健才委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2451,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（14時27分）謝謝召委，有請教育部部長、主計長、邱泰源部長、環境部彭部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長、主計長、邱部長、彭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：鄭部長，前瞻實行到現在，因為校舍的安全預算永遠不嫌多，包括地震瞬間引起的狀況很難預料，我想你非常的清楚，我們常講一句話，再怎麼苦也不能苦了我們的孩子，教育其實是最重要的，前瞻實施到現在，對於校舍的改建進度，你自己滿不滿意？"],["鄭部長英耀：老舊校舍的改建、有安全疑慮的……"],["李委員彥秀：用前瞻的預算進行校舍的改建，目前為止，你自己滿不滿意？我們都知道用公務預算一年一年編，其實速度非常慢，各地方政府教育局的預算做校舍的改建、海砂屋的改建、有安全疑慮的改建，速度非常非常慢，因為經費有限。前瞻當時8,800億元的時候，我們都有一個期待，我們希望在這一塊能看到給孩子一個安全的環境，你滿不滿意？就回答我兩個字就好，不要浪費我的時間。"],["鄭部長英耀：所有在前瞻……"],["李委員彥秀：滿不滿意？滿不滿意？滿不滿意？進度滿不滿意？"],["鄭部長英耀：安全上有疑慮的也都掃過一波，全部都做了改善。"],["李委員彥秀：校舍的改建，你與其塗塗抹抹，倒不如正本清源的方法，就是校舍的改建，你滿不滿意？你回答我兩個字嘛！你現在有350億元要做校舍的改建，到115年才開始做，你如果當時第一年就有想法，早就可以開始做，我跟你講幾個數字，全臺灣超過50年以上的校舍有2,200棟，超過30年的有8,300棟，我在這邊只是要提醒部長，與其擦脂抹粉，正本清源的方法其實我們都知道，該改建的其實就是要改建，因為塗塗抹抹幾年之後，過幾年可能又要再塗塗抹抹一次。"],["鄭部長英耀：校舍老舊其實也是傳遞一個學校的歷史文化。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，我時間已經到了，我只是提醒你這件事情，因為你115年才要開始，我提醒你後續如果今年有剩下來的預算、前瞻的經費，其實去思考一下、盤點一下，哪些可以先做。"],["鄭部長英耀：提升教育品質是我們要做的，我們跟委員的想法一樣。"],["李委員彥秀：我請邱部長和主計長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：部長、主計長，我們113年和112年拿了多少經費去撥補健保基金？主計長清楚嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：113年……"],["李委員彥秀：我給你答案，因為我時間不夠，113年是200億元，112年是240億元，這個部分我請邱部長回應我，有沒有做醫療院所健保點值的補充，維持健保的運作？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，去年112年有補了將近79億元，今年還沒有。"],["李委員彥秀：我聽說今年要撥補，主計處一直對於到底要怎麼撥補、用在哪裡，我聽說你一直很有意見，是不是？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，我們沒有意見，我們一直撥補，像我們對衛福部的……"],["李委員彥秀：主計長，撥補給台電500億元，今年1,000億元，明年要再撥補1,000億元，你也不對台電到底怎麼運作……就直接撥補給它，你不會有那麼多的意見。我希望你撥補給邱部長這邊，他非常清楚知道到底要撥補哪裡，對於我們健保的環境、點值才是真正有幫助的，不要再給他背後指指點點，我的意思是這樣子。你聽得懂吧！"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們沒有指指點點。"],["李委員彥秀：我希望沒有，我聽說的是這樣子，我覺得讓專業的去做專業的處理，你就在財源的預算上處理，最後交給衛福部。","接下來我要關心醫療院所環境的問題，前瞻現在撥了2億元用在推動廢污水的資源化管理也好，或者2.73億元改善水資源或污染設施，用4.42億元用於減碳和氣候的治理。現在減碳分成三個部分，直接排放、間接排放以及其他的間接排放，請問環境部，在這一塊，我們協助了衛福部什麼東西？"],["葉次長俊宏：跟委員報告，我們環境部第一個就是先幫醫院這邊做……"],["李委員彥秀：你只有幫它開了一場會議叫作領航營，對不對？"],["葉次長俊宏：是。"],["李委員彥秀：那怎麼幫醫院減碳？沒有做嘛！對不對？"],["葉次長俊宏：現在正在做深度減碳的……"],["李委員彥秀：你們今天部長沒來？暫停一下，召委，今天沒有部長？"],["主席：他3點去開另外一個會。"],["李委員彥秀：有跟你講嗎？明天還會再來嗎？"],["主席：有，今天如果講不完，明天就會來。"],["李委員彥秀：我明天還有第二輪嗎？沒有喔！"],["主席：你繼續問。"],["李委員彥秀：你是副部長嗎？"],["主席：葉次長。"],["葉次長俊宏：我是政務次長。"],["李委員彥秀：你可以回應我喔！不然我在這邊講了老半天沒有用啊！召委，有意義嗎？"],["主席：你繼續問，問清楚。"],["李委員彥秀：現在環境部公告修正放流水標準，但是我們知道要配合你這個放流水標準，事實上在醫療院所為什麼要放有效餘氯，它加了氯在裡頭，加了氯的目的就是要滅菌，對不對？邱部長，我想你非常清楚。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["李委員彥秀：但是因為你現在放流水標準的限制就沒有辦法滅菌，反而醫院是救人的地方，它如果沒有處理好，你現在要求它符合你放流水標準，它沒有辦法加那麼多的氯，反而有可能製造細菌，所以現在醫療院所最大的問題是沒有足夠的空間、足夠的設備，它已經穿著西裝，沒有辦法去改變太多其他的設施，所以我請問你，前瞻的預算在這一塊到底能怎麼協助幫助它？你要怎麼幫它，你有辦法回復我嗎？"],["葉次長俊宏：跟委員報告……"],["李委員彥秀：你不是幫它開一場領航座談會，其他什麼都不管，叫它符合你的標準，它沒有辦法耶！醫療院所就這麼小，你要看其他幾個醫院要怎樣去做這些設備符合你的標準，流水設備沒辦法改，地下水管沒辦法改，它就是沒有辦法嘛！那要符合你的標準，不然就被你開罰，要不然就是後面製造更多的病菌出來，這要怎麼解決？邱部長你要幫它背嗎？你不要幫它背，你去幫它背，我後面就找你喔！"],["葉次長俊宏：跟委員報告，放流水標準把餘氯設定為2ppm以下是不希望放流水裡面的餘氯太多，排到水裡面會影響水中的生物。"],["李委員彥秀：這個我都知道意思，你沒有去想醫療院所現在實際的狀況是怎樣，你怎樣去輔導它嘛！我具體的結論，因為你們有這些預算，你有水資源改善和污水設施的改善計畫，你跟衛福部好好研究一下這筆經費怎樣協助它改善。"],["葉次長俊宏：好，謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：看要撥多少經費……"],["邱部長泰源：非常謝謝委員對這個議題的關心，我們會跟環境部一起來努力。"],["李委員彥秀：結論要告訴我，不然我就再回來。"],["邱部長泰源：一定，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李彥秀委員。","接著請黃健豪委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":312,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","李坤城","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","林宜瑾","郭國文","賴惠員","賴士葆","洪孟楷","顏寬恒","萬美玲","王世堅","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張雅琳","柯志恩","王鴻薇","陳超明","陳菁徽","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李昆澤","黃秀芳","吳沛憶","林月琴","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","李柏毅","張智倫","李彥秀","黃健豪","徐富癸","張宏陸","謝衣鳯","楊瓊瓔","劉建國","范雲","游顥","林倩綺","王正旭","何欣純","羅明才","鄭正鈐","王育敏","葛如鈞","邱志偉","羅廷瑋","盧縣一","吳春城","黃珊珊","林俊憲","黃國昌","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","蔡其昌","張嘉郡","陳素月","邱議瑩","葉元之","邱鎮軍","蔡易餘"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請相關部會首長就「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算執行情形及成效」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢；二、審查行政院函請審議「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第 5 期特別預算案\n（114年度）」（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}