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主席 請勞動部何部長部長好 先何部長確認 你們昨天開職場霸凌記者會的時候請問被指控涉嫌的霸凌的行為 你說他目前只是幕僚的職務 沒有權利 正確嗎我已經準備直接要讓他停職了"},{"start":30.908,"end":38.152,"text":"準備直接跟他停止了那我們看到本期在那個勞動力發展署支援輕生的那天就有接到投訴我們可以看到這個這張截圖那"},{"start":42.076,"end":71.291,"text":"知情人士跟本席反映說署長涉及職場霸凌署長在下班後還會用LINE問工作的問題只要錯過就是錯過問題就會被拿出來特別檢討那本席也跟勞動力發展署有所知你們的回文是職員一天平均的工作時數是8個小時上下班用刷卡的方式請問部長你們調查報告承認這名洩性的行為人半夜或早上5點都會用LINE詢問工作的事情這工作明顯就已經超過8個小時請問這份所知"},{"start":72.071,"end":90.805,"text":"一天工作8個小時是怎麼來的?是其他員工都不用上班還是公然對本席說謊?跟委員報告,這個因為之前提供給委員這個是根據我們目前的刷卡的猜情記錄依照這個刷卡的猜情記錄去統計"},{"start":92.25,"end":111.146,"text":"依照他的刷卡,所以這份資料跟你們實際上,跟這位親身的職員,他的工作史是不符大?這個是因為是猜刑系統的刷卡記錄,但是實際上確實有同仁可能就是沒有在這個刷卡以外的時間,其實就實際上就已經到前。那我這邊問部長,部長你說他已經要調離了是不是?"},{"start":116.87,"end":141.661,"text":"你指哪位這位這位這位署長沒有就直接把他停職啊直接停職那原本是要把他調去哪裡啊那時候還沒有決定那時候還沒有決定那他這樣子罵人或咆哮他不管去到哪裡都還是有一樣的問題啊而且部長你也說他有就醫的需求那你怎麼會把他從另外一個地方再調調到另外一個單位呢你是想要製造新的問題嗎所以並沒有決定"},{"start":144.591,"end":172.864,"text":"所以你現在已經決定要把他停職了是嗎?對,現在的決定是要停職。那我們再來看到那來跟本席陳情的人有特別提到這位自殺者非常善良,被逼上絕路的前一天他還在跟同事交接工作,部長你知道嗎?我知道啊,通過調查小組的報告我才知道。你才知道,那這已經不是一兩天的事了吧?"},{"start":174.764,"end":192.491,"text":"我也是得通過調查小組的報告我為什麼我會啟動調查就是我想要知道這位同仁為什麼會這樣子那我才知道原來他是這麼超常識的工作我也是通過調查調查小組的報告我才能瞭解啊那部長那通靈說的是怎麼一回事啊處長通靈你是指為什麼這位署長回到辦公室還有這個說法"},{"start":205.82,"end":223.918,"text":"那是通靈那是他們當年當時在處理的時候藏儀社藏儀社的通靈阿姨給這個謝芬署長的說法啦你們有沒有就你們管理內部的機制還有這個智能就業服務系統本身制度的問題來做檢討啊"},{"start":226.016,"end":254.599,"text":"這就是我要求他們先把自己的人力的配置本身量能就已經不足了加上這工作也沒辦法完成我也沒辦法完成然後也沒有適當的求助管道然後再來是精神跟管理手段也有問題啊那當他們要向上反應的時候部長你是今天才知道啊人都已經被逼到手上絕路了這就是我要啟動調查我才瞭解竟然有這樣子的一個計畫然後是員工做不到的"},{"start":255.279,"end":282.936,"text":"而又要被要求這部長今天拿出破例給給死者家屬一個交代還有全體國內一個交代好嗎對我把這個資訊標案都停了要求他們重新檢討這什麼檢討報告什麼時候會出來啊檢討報告委員你是說資訊標案的重新檢討嗎不是資訊標案針對這一次沒有我們的你是指重啟調查的部分嗎重啟調查然後包括我們這個智能這個"},{"start":286.377,"end":286.537,"text":"邱若華"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:24:32.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:24:32.756000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:24:33.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:24:44.300000+08:00","text":"主席，請勞動部何部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T15:24:44.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T15:24:45.300000+08:00","text":"請何部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:24:45.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T15:24:46.300000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:24:44.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:24:44.520000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:24:44.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:24:56.145000+08:00","text":"先和部長確認，你們昨天開職場霸凌記者會的時候，請問被指控涉嫌的霸凌行為人，你說他目前只是幕僚職務，沒有權力，正確嗎？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:24:56.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:24:59.106000+08:00","text":"我已經準備直接要讓他停職了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:24:59.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:25:00.688000+08:00","text":"準備直接讓他停職？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:25:02.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:25:21.381000+08:00","text":"本席在勞動力發展署職員輕生那天就有接到投訴，我們可以看到這張截圖，知情人士跟本席反映署長涉及職場霸凌，署長在下班後還會用LINE問工作的問題，只要錯過問題就會被拿出來特別檢討。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:25:21.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:25:42.452000+08:00","text":"本席也有跟勞動力發展署索資，你們的回文是職員一天平均的工作時數是8個小時，上下班用刷卡的方式，請問部長，你們調查報告承認這名謝姓的行為人半夜或早上5點都會用LINE詢問工作的事情，這工作明顯就已經超過8個小時，請問這份索資一天工作8個小時是怎麼來的？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:25:42.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:25:51.358000+08:00","text":"是其他員工都不用上班，還是公然對本席說謊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡署長孟良","start":"2024-11-20T15:25:51.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:25:59.805000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為之前提供給委員的資料，是根據我們目前刷卡的差勤紀錄，依照刷卡的差勤紀錄去統計。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:01.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:07.796000+08:00","text":"所以這份資料跟實際上這位輕生職員的工作時數是不符的？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蔡署長孟良","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:08.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:18.144000+08:00","text":"這個是差勤系統的刷卡紀錄，但是確實有同仁可能在這個刷卡以外的時間，實際上就已經到勤。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:19.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:20.126000+08:00","text":"請問部長，你說他已經要調離了，是不是？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:26.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:26.410000+08:00","text":"您指哪位？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:27.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:29.172000+08:00","text":"這位署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:29.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:30.372000+08:00","text":"就直接把他停職。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:32.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:33.434000+08:00","text":"你原本是要把他調去哪裡？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:35.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:36.755000+08:00","text":"那時候還沒有決定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:36.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:40.637000+08:00","text":"那他這樣子罵人或咆哮，不管去到哪裡都還是有一樣的問題啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:41.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:47.620000+08:00","text":"而且部長，你也說他有就醫的需求，那你怎麼會把他從這個地方再調到另外一個單位呢？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:49.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:50.381000+08:00","text":"你是想要製造新的問題嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:50.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:50.641000+08:00","text":"所以並沒有決定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:53.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:56.112000+08:00","text":"所以你現在已經決定要把他停職了，是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:26:56.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:26:58.933000+08:00","text":"對，現在的決定是要停職。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:27:03.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:27:14.981000+08:00","text":"來跟本席陳情的人有特別提到，這位自殺者非常善良，被逼上絕路的前一天他還在跟同事交接工作，部長，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:27:14.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:27:15.421000+08:00","text":"我知道啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:27:15.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:27:17.622000+08:00","text":"通過調查小組的報告我才知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:27:18.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:27:18.562000+08:00","text":"你才知道！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:27:20.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:27:21.844000+08:00","text":"這已經不是一、兩天的事了吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:27:23.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:27:37.549000+08:00","text":"我也是得通過調查小組的報告，我為什麼會啟動調查，就是我想要知道這位同仁為什麼會這樣子，我才知道原來他是這麼超長時的工作，我也是通過調查小組的報告才能瞭解。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:27:39.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:27:40.270000+08:00","text":"部長，通靈說是怎麼一回事？通靈？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:27:40.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:27:40.670000+08:00","text":"您是指？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:27:40.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:27:41.471000+08:00","text":"為什麼這位署長回到辦公室會有這個說法呢？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:27:57.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:28:05.911000+08:00","text":"那是他們當時在處理的時候，葬儀社的通靈阿姨給謝分署長的說法。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:28:07.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:28:12.898000+08:00","text":"你們有沒有就你們內部管理的機制，還有這個智能就業服務系統本身制度的問題來做檢討？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:28:15.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:28:16.777000+08:00","text":"這就是我要求他們要先把這些標案都停下來……","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:28:17.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:28:35.092000+08:00","text":"你們人力配置本身量能就已經不足了，加上這工作也沒辦法完成，然後也沒有適當的求助管道，再來是精神跟管理手段也有問題，當他們要向上反映的時候，部長，你是今天才知道，但人都已經被逼到走上絕路了。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:28:35.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:28:47.161000+08:00","text":"這就是我要啟動調查，我才瞭解竟然有這樣子的計畫，然後是員工做不到的，而又要被要求，這就是我想要瞭解的過程。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:28:47.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:28:52.364000+08:00","text":"部長，請拿出魄力給死者家屬一個交代，還有全體國人一個交代，好嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:28:52.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:28:57.007000+08:00","text":"所以我把這個資訊標案都停了，要求他們重新檢討。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:28:57.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:28:59.248000+08:00","text":"檢討報告什麼時候會出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:01.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:03.051000+08:00","text":"委員是說資訊標案的重新檢討嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:03.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:05.492000+08:00","text":"不是資訊標案，針對這一次……","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:07.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:09.835000+08:00","text":"你是指重啟調查的部分嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:09.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:10.955000+08:00","text":"重啟調查，包括這一次離世員工手上的工作。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:11.455000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:14.883571+08:00","text":"我們都把它停止了，都停止了。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:15.183571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:18.040714+08:00","text":"停止就能解決問題了嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:18.340714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:23.769286+08:00","text":"重新檢討所有的資訊標案，不只這個智能標案。","quality":0.211},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:24.069286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:35.212143+08:00","text":"好，請部長不要讓公務員或是任何勞工，以寶貴的生命對勞動部做出最嚴厲的指控，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:35.512143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:36.940714+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:37.240714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:38.669286+08:00","text":"謝謝邱委員。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-20T15:29:38.969286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-20T15:29:42.397857+08:00","text":"接續我們請洪申翰委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2082,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（15時24分）謝謝主席。主席，請勞動部何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["邱委員若華：部長好。先和部長確認，你們昨天開職場霸凌記者會的時候，請問被指控涉嫌的霸凌行為人，你說他目前只是幕僚職務，沒有權力，正確嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我已經準備直接要讓他停職了。"],["邱委員若華：準備直接讓他停職？本席在勞動力發展署職員輕生那天就有接到投訴，我們可以看到這張截圖，知情人士跟本席反映署長涉及職場霸凌，署長在下班後還會用LINE問工作的問題，只要錯過問題就會被拿出來特別檢討。本席也有跟勞動力發展署索資，你們的回文是職員一天平均的工作時數是8個小時，上下班用刷卡的方式，請問部長，你們調查報告承認這名謝姓的行為人半夜或早上5點都會用LINE詢問工作的事情，這工作明顯就已經超過8個小時，請問這份索資一天工作8個小時是怎麼來的？是其他員工都不用上班，還是公然對本席說謊？"],["蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，因為之前提供給委員的資料，是根據我們目前刷卡的差勤紀錄，依照刷卡的差勤紀錄去統計。"],["邱委員若華：所以這份資料跟實際上這位輕生職員的工作時數是不符的？"],["蔡署長孟良：這個是差勤系統的刷卡紀錄，但是確實有同仁可能在這個刷卡以外的時間，實際上就已經到勤。"],["邱委員若華：請問部長，你說他已經要調離了，是不是？"],["何部長佩珊：您指哪位？"],["邱委員若華：這位署長。"],["何部長佩珊：就直接把他停職。"],["邱委員若華：你原本是要把他調去哪裡？"],["何部長佩珊：那時候還沒有決定。"],["邱委員若華：那他這樣子罵人或咆哮，不管去到哪裡都還是有一樣的問題啊！而且部長，你也說他有就醫的需求，那你怎麼會把他從這個地方再調到另外一個單位呢？你是想要製造新的問題嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：所以並沒有決定。"],["邱委員若華：所以你現在已經決定要把他停職了，是嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：對，現在的決定是要停職。"],["邱委員若華：來跟本席陳情的人有特別提到，這位自殺者非常善良，被逼上絕路的前一天他還在跟同事交接工作，部長，你知道嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我知道啊！通過調查小組的報告我才知道。"],["邱委員若華：你才知道！這已經不是一、兩天的事了吧？"],["何部長佩珊：我也是得通過調查小組的報告，我為什麼會啟動調查，就是我想要知道這位同仁為什麼會這樣子，我才知道原來他是這麼超長時的工作，我也是通過調查小組的報告才能瞭解。"],["邱委員若華：部長，通靈說是怎麼一回事？"],["何部長佩珊：通靈？您是指？"],["邱委員若華：為什麼這位署長回到辦公室會有這個說法呢？"],["何部長佩珊：那是他們當時在處理的時候，葬儀社的通靈阿姨給謝分署長的說法。"],["邱委員若華：你們有沒有就你們內部管理的機制，還有這個智能就業服務系統本身制度的問題來做檢討？"],["何部長佩珊：這就是我要求他們要先把這些標案都停下來……"],["邱委員若華：你們人力配置本身量能就已經不足了，加上這工作也沒辦法完成，然後也沒有適當的求助管道，再來是精神跟管理手段也有問題，當他們要向上反映的時候，部長，你是今天才知道，但人都已經被逼到走上絕路了。"],["何部長佩珊：這就是我要啟動調查，我才瞭解竟然有這樣子的計畫，然後是員工做不到的，而又要被要求，這就是我想要瞭解的過程。"],["邱委員若華：部長，請拿出魄力給死者家屬一個交代，還有全體國人一個交代，好嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：所以我把這個資訊標案都停了，要求他們重新檢討。"],["邱委員若華：檢討報告什麼時候會出來？"],["何部長佩珊：委員是說資訊標案的重新檢討嗎？"],["邱委員若華：不是資訊標案，針對這一次……"],["何部長佩珊：你是指重啟調查的部分嗎？"],["邱委員若華：重啟調查，包括這一次離世員工手上的工作。"],["何部長佩珊：我們都把它停止了，都停止了。"],["邱委員若華：停止就能解決問題了嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：重新檢討所有的資訊標案，不只這個智能標案。"],["邱委員若華：好，請部長不要讓公務員或是任何勞工，以寶貴的生命對勞動部做出最嚴厲的指控，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["邱委員若華：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員。","接續我們請洪申翰委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":360,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-9","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林淑芬","王育敏","劉建國","黃秀芳","王正旭","林月琴","邱鎮軍","王育敏","陳瑩","楊曜","涂權吉","盧縣一","廖偉翔","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","黃健豪","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","李彥秀","黃國昌","葉元之","邱若華","洪申翰","牛煦庭","羅智強","鄭正鈐","林倩綺","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","林國成","張嘉郡","柯志恩","萬美玲"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310201_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試\n院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作\n業」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310201_00012"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}