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Global估計上年全球經濟成長率由2022年3.1%降至2.7%本年續降至2.5%"},{"start":1970.359,"end":1987.844,"text":"SNP Global Global预测本年全球消费者物价指数连增率由上年之5.6%降至4.7%本年主要经济体劳动市场情势可望放缓通膨率将续降温为多仍高于2%"},{"start":1989.637,"end":2011.342,"text":"預期費得及ECB可能將降二開始降息BOJ結束負利率人行則加大寬鬆利道一上年10月以來美英歐同盤率下降加以政策利率以具限制性因美英歐央行均已停止升級並維持政策利率不變市場預測本年"},{"start":2013.743,"end":2022.708,"text":"美英歐央行將開始降息二日本央行為實現2%物價穩定目標續採寬鬆貨幣政策以促進薪資及物價朝向良向循環方向發展市場預測本年3月或4月將結束負利率政策"},{"start":2033.093,"end":2040.338,"text":"為人將維持貨幣寬鬆以支撐經濟穩健的復甦中國大陸經濟復甦疲軟將強化寬鬆貨幣力道以刺激經濟成長三上年10月以來美元指數震盪左跌主要經濟十年期公債之利益都回落"},{"start":2053.266,"end":2069.748,"text":"近月因美國多數企業財報又預期加以人工智慧相關產品需求強勁全球股市在半導體類股上漲下那走深二國內經濟金融情勢方面"},{"start":2070.666,"end":2081.496,"text":"一、本年經濟成長率將優於上年。上年第四季臺灣輸出及投資成長率動能頻頻為民間消費穩健成長加以比較積極較低經濟成長升至4.93%"},{"start":2088.221,"end":2096.383,"text":"全年平均經濟成長率則降為1.31%低於2022年的2.59%二預期本年臺灣輸出與民間投資成長回溫加以民間消費持續成長且上年基期較低本年經濟成長率將優於上年國內外主要機構對臺灣本年經濟成長率預測都逾3%平均為3.18%"},{"start":2117.89,"end":2131.277,"text":"上年通膨回降預期本年續降至2%左右上年CPR年增率由2022年的2.95回降至2.49%上漲主因系外食弱類等食物類"},{"start":2132.658,"end":2153.396,"text":"價格左升加以國人休閒娛樂消費供不應求業者調漲住宿及旅遊團會娛樂服務會上漲以及房租調高核心CPI年增益則為2.58列低於2022年的2.61本年1至2月平均CPI及核心CPI年增益為2.43% 2.27%維持反部回降趨勢"},{"start":2160.661,"end":2178.985,"text":"國際機構預測本年油價較上年劣降國內商品類價格將溫和上漲加以國內服務類價格受高基期影響漲幅可望趨緩本年國內通膨率預期低於上年國內外主要機構對臺灣本年CPI年增率預測介於1.64%到2.5%平均為1.94%"},{"start":2184.74,"end":2187.706,"text":"4銀行信用成長上升為貨幣總技術成長減緩銀行與貨幣市場利益小幅波動"},{"start":2194.096,"end":2222.193,"text":"上年10月以來銀行對民營商業本票及公司債投資增加加以出口轉成正成長企業資金需求回穩以及房貸年增率續升銀行放款及投資年增率持續走升至12月底為6.58%本年1月底續升為6.94%主因銀行對政府債權增加加以銀行對個人房貸及理財周轉金年增率上升所致"},{"start":2224.138,"end":2236.325,"text":"上年以來國內的M2廉政率續下降目前M2一月已經回降到5.44本年預估本年M2廉政率續趨緩和將落在2.5%到6.5%之間"},{"start":2243.075,"end":2261.063,"text":"三主要一本行主要業務方面關於本行採行漸進溫和的緊縮貨幣政策一直國內通膨一起心理為維持物價穩定協助國內穩定健全成長關於二本行選擇性信任管制措施"},{"start":2262.543,"end":2285.712,"text":"實施以來不動產貸款成長率趨降不動產貸款之預放比例維持低檔本行將密切關注房地產相關政策對房市的可能影響並持續檢視不動產貸款情形以本行管制措施指引成效適時調整相關措施內容以促進金融穩定及健全銀行業務三本行調節會市維持會市運作順暢"},{"start":2289.013,"end":2303.201,"text":"上年迄今新台幣對美元略為貶值相對主要貨幣匯率穩定上年上半年國內匯市美元供需大致均衡本行淨賣匯8.8億美元新台幣貶值1.37%下半年外資獲利了結台股"},{"start":2309.024,"end":2318.93,"text":"並同鼓勵匯出本行進場調節禁賣費18.9億美元新台幣升值1.3%上年全年本行累計禁賣費27.7億美元新台幣兌美元貶值0.09%為貶幅小於韓元1.82%還有人民幣的貶值1.98及日元的負的貶值7.03%等主要貨幣"},{"start":2335.279,"end":2357.012,"text":"本年以來美國經濟及通膨仍具韌性加以費的主席Power表示不太可能在本年3月降息美元指數上揚新台幣對美元走弱本年迄今3月11日新台幣對美元貶值2.16%降無小於澳幣、泰銖及日元等主要貨幣"},{"start":2358.649,"end":2381.001,"text":"台灣為小型開放經濟體貿易依存度高且外匯市場屬前諜型維持新台幣匯率相對穩定有其必要長期以來新台幣對美元匯率波動小於新加坡幣、歐元、日元及韓元等主要歐幣有利廠商之報價及盈利亦有助國內金融穩定與經濟成長"},{"start":2383.103,"end":2410.849,"text":"二、本行外幣流動性充裕本年二月底本行外幣存底為5694億美元較上年底減少12億美元主要反映本行為維持外幣市場秩序進展調節以及主要貨幣對美元貶值式匯率變動因素三、有關外幣存底與主權財務基金之相關議題中央銀行法第20條及第33條條文修正草案你設立之外"},{"start":2411.769,"end":2436.521,"text":"會投資基金系公司設立屬獨立盈利之個體以央行法第20條等得設立之基金信職獎益且其目的以央行法定職權顯有違和故應獨立於央行法之外且不宜由央行主管二修正央行法第23條亦無法達到草案尼設立主權財務基金"},{"start":2441.311,"end":2464.342,"text":"之目的已以專法規範之此外已開發國家設立主權機都已專法規範其設立及運作尚無已央行法規範者。三上年5月立法院財委會舉辦之公聽會中定立專法亦為專家學者相關政府部會代表與立法委員之多數共事。"},{"start":2465.242,"end":2485.368,"text":"同月財委會審議應出席委員都有不同看法該草案並會討論及散會令3月9月行政院以責成國發會嚴厲我國設立主權財務機制議題四完善資務清算體系提供新台幣誇行資金多轉最終清算服務"},{"start":2487.626,"end":2500.32,"text":"5.協助推廣行動支付1.推廣行動支付共通支付標準為建構更完善的行動支付環境本行持續督促財經公司"},{"start":2501.68,"end":2512.044,"text":"協同銀行推廣QR Code共通支付標準上年交易金額及比數分別為3970億元及9384萬幣各較2022年成長26%及18%二建置電子支付跨機構共用平台六持續推動CBDC研究計畫"},{"start":2527.557,"end":2535.33,"text":"以2020年及2022年分別完成批發型CBDC可行性技術研究及零售型CBDC試驗計畫"},{"start":2537.557,"end":2552.553,"text":"您所行CBDC計劃之結果已錄製成中英文版影片公布於本行官網二科政進行意見調查及精進平台設計兩項工作一委託專業調研機構針對CBDC涉及的各項層面向公眾政府機關"},{"start":2559.3,"end":2583.725,"text":"產業界及學術者等辦理意見調查而持續調整及精進平台架構提升交易處理量能並探索創新應用並針對收戶雙方皆無網路連線之情景研究解決方案參與國際組織CPTC沙盒試驗就跨境貿易等主要所涉及CPTC跨境資助作業進行流程設計討論與測試"},{"start":2587.286,"end":2608.436,"text":"3配合意見調查及精進平台設計兩項工作之進展持續收集主要國家CBDC相關法治動向資料事實演繹我國法律架構並盤點發行CBDC需要需配合訂定或修正之相關法規確保其可行性增強市場對CBDC的信任"},{"start":2614.213,"end":2630.707,"text":"結論以上僅就國內外經濟金融情勢與本行主要業務提出檢討報告至於本行調節金融通貨發行外貨管理及經理國庫等業務概況則至於賦入敬請著參本行捐付促進金融穩定健全銀行業務維護對內及對外地址穩定"},{"start":2633.85,"end":2655.228,"text":"堅固協助經濟發展之法定職責隨時密切注意國內外經濟金融形勢發展妥適運用各種政策工具以達成政策目標本欄亦述呈各位委員頂住與支持僅藉此機會表達衷心感謝之意今後仍請各位委員實事指教謝謝謝謝"},{"start":2661.894,"end":2678.091,"text":"接著我們要開始詢答每位委員8分鐘延長2分鐘列席委員5分鐘必要延長1分鐘今日上午10點截止發言登記現在請第一位林德福林委員質詢"},{"start":2687.873,"end":2703.91,"text":"謝謝謝謝主席呃楊總裁還有與會各央行的各單位呃列席主管還有呃我們本會的委員以及啊所有媒體記者女士先生是不是請那個楊總裁請楊總裁"},{"start":2715.448,"end":2741.917,"text":"總裁早我請教你我想因為很多民眾他們就是最近也一直問因為我們都知道最近那個ETF很夯那這個很多人就是認為說這個他有股息的分配嘛然後有的什麼月配啦有的季配啦有的半年配啦等等"},{"start":2743.177,"end":2765.349,"text":"那在整個市場是真的非常的夯而且他所佔的比例也很高那我要請教總裁說像這麼夯那你認為這個ETF到底他有存在有哪些風險你的看法呢當然啦ETF是他的風險第一個就是說他會"},{"start":2770.444,"end":2779.45,"text":"注帳上去大家都上去好像上去比較多下來比較少目前看是這樣子目前是這樣啦還是整個大市長久他也是會波動大家都上去大家都下來這是他的風險一樣的啦就是說"},{"start":2790.218,"end":2799.949,"text":"那這個就是說你投資資產的時候都是會有這樣的一個風險那最近委員也知道那個金管會也對這個ETF這樣子的熱絡他也覺得是有一點太"},{"start":2806.736,"end":2829.762,"text":"我覺得他也認為是有一點太過了太熱了所以呢他也要採取一些的措施配合的措施要來壓抑他的這個因為很多民眾想了解阿我想央行你們的立場要讓大家了解大家就一窩蜂的這個就喝頂這個就是說金融市場裡面在講的就是說群眾的那個什麼群眾的那個的效率"},{"start":2835.624,"end":2836.025,"text":"我再請教總裁"},{"start":2850.083,"end":2858.867,"text":"因為主計總署預估今年的CPI年增率上修到0.21%到1.85%不過這次的通膨預測並未包括電價的調整所以說"},{"start":2869.952,"end":2890.722,"text":"等到電價調整確定後CPI有機會再往上修那我請問總裁電價調整對各行業的價格是不是一定會發生一些連鎖的效應呢我在想就是說基本上他的直接效果是一定會的啦那間接的效果就是說7月"},{"start":2891.943,"end":2896.005,"text":"我請教總裁到底他會個別反映還是連鎖反映因您的看法"},{"start":2909.632,"end":2929.384,"text":"還會不會有加成的一些效應啊這個也導致整個通膨預測的一個失準所以就是說委員我也跟委員報告中央銀行也就是說很怕的就是說我們很擔心的就是說這個會有一種連鎖性的連鎖性而且第二個會預期性的"},{"start":2932.666,"end":2948.323,"text":"因為我們打通膨呢 我們是預防這個通膨的預期的心理 這個我們非常注意 所以通膨啊 講到通膨啊 中央銀行是非常小心的 那如果要是個別反應 你認為哪些產業衝擊最大 個別的喔"},{"start":2950.565,"end":2954.567,"text":"各別的話我想一般的外食這些也都會有一些的產業以前我也看過一個paper有產業關聯表有哪些的產業它的衝擊會比較像電力或什麼的產業它的衝擊就會更大用電的就是用電的大一點衝擊的面會越大"},{"start":2977.099,"end":2977.339,"text":"對,我知道。"},{"start":2993.652,"end":3007.662,"text":"總裁,台電電價調整的方式是準備不分局劇,全面性的調漲只是漲幅的不同雖然疫情後通膨似乎已經有控制但你認為在這個時機來調漲電價,你認為適當嗎?"},{"start":3012.385,"end":3038.233,"text":"我跟委員報告這個也就是說經濟部據我了解經濟部也是為了就是說第一個就是說要看我們的預算給能夠補貼我們台電多少所以呢我看報紙啊我看媒體啊他也都是在講啊一千億或是一千五百億一千五百億的話他的調升呢他的幅度就會比較小一千億的話呢他的調升的幅度就會比較大"},{"start":3039.013,"end":3047.64,"text":"那現在呢就是說經濟部呢他也是就是說他們現在也是在開什麼會那這4月份的話就會做最後的那你認為在這個時機點來調漲電價對整個物價的影響會不會比過去啊有點雙長"},{"start":3055.706,"end":3079.633,"text":"那時候衝擊小還是有可能發生能預測的轉嫁效應呢因您看我覺得基本上從以往的來看衝擊是不會是很大不過這一次是因為他提早提出來所以大家都是很廣泛的去討論這個議題我比較擔心的是一個通膨預期的心理"},{"start":3085.891,"end":3102.51,"text":"對啊那那就是就他實際的一個影響呢我在想呢也不是如大家所說非常擔心的就是說我會大家都會一直一直調帳調帳也不會說有可能以前等你先前現在就在講嗯會不會就是"},{"start":3103.871,"end":3120.442,"text":"這個可能發生難以預期的這些轉嫁效應會不會因為就是說就主管機關來講的話呢因為他的調整呢是固定的就是四月嘛四月和十月嘛"},{"start":3120.762,"end":3122.283,"text":"總裁,因為12年前郵電雙廠的背景相信當時身為副總裁的你應該還記憶猶新"},{"start":3145.154,"end":3166.096,"text":"臺金縣景氣預測中心孫明德主任認為說從主計總處二月的消費者物價指數年增率暴漲至3.08%再加上四月電價調漲再急利率恐怕"},{"start":3167.177,"end":3179.926,"text":"會有檢討的機會這些政策利率的政策可能會有檢討的機會那我請問總裁下個禮拜這個中央銀行要開理監事會會不會討論利率的問題包委員每次這個利率的問題都會討論也就是說對也會討論"},{"start":3188.106,"end":3204.524,"text":"我相信會討論在通膨餘率沒有消除消費者物價指數有可能因為電價調漲出現2%的餘率那請問總裁央行下半年有沒有可能不會降息會不會"},{"start":3208.327,"end":3210.309,"text":"嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":3229.828,"end":3244.466,"text":"因為我們台灣升息的速度跟歐美這些不大一樣我們是很委婉的持續的慢慢的上升我知道那要是像這種狀況會不會說沒有降息反而是升息的可能這個我們會討論"},{"start":3246.809,"end":3265.789,"text":"會討論會討論因為你要一致通膨是我們特別我剛剛也是在講就是說通膨的預期心理那這個通膨的預期心理那如果說這個預期如果說像以前我們的通膨都是1%左右平均長期都是平均那現在如果假設說是平均1.5"},{"start":3267.49,"end":3281.444,"text":"或是1.5到2%以上的話那這個呢很顯然就是結果性有一些的改變那這個利率呢恐怕就不會像以前那樣的利率呢就恐怕不會像以前的那麼的低檔那個"},{"start":3284.844,"end":3293.936,"text":"總裁,因為主計長媒體報導說主計處估算如果民生用電調漲10%對CPI直接影響是0.12%並且企業電價調高也會轉嫁成本加上最近"},{"start":3303.268,"end":3318.717,"text":"包括這個眷保的掛號會啊條長等等效應啊今年通膨率將再度逼近啊百分之二的通膨警戒警戒線甚至於有可能破百分之二總裁那對比油電雙長的時候"},{"start":3320.538,"end":3344.409,"text":"那種經濟的情勢本席是認為目前的經濟環境應該是更為險峻那當時為了展現政府意志通膨的決心央行實施多項的政策手段請問面對4月電價調漲央行準備好了嗎還是真的要雙手一攤放任民生這些消費的物資這個"},{"start":3346.91,"end":3368.939,"text":"變成天花板的物價持續的往上拉我該委員報告我們會很謹慎的我們會這一次會很謹慎的來討論這個利率因為本期是憂心說近期恐怕又有缺水的疑慮再加上碳會要開增後的影響通盆捲土重來那請問總裁這是經濟成長國家的民眾應該期待的一個結果嗎"},{"start":3375.662,"end":3375.822,"text":"教會請吳秉瑞吳委員諮詢"},{"start":3417.853,"end":3419.474,"text":"主席麻煩請央行楊總裁請楊總裁"},{"start":3430.081,"end":3446.394,"text":"我在很多的資料上面看到總體經濟學的學者他有這樣的講法說一個國家CPI應該要溫和適度的上漲不能太低甚至更不能麻辣死因為麻辣死很可能就引發通縮"},{"start":3448.769,"end":3474.131,"text":"我只要問你那個標準因為就幾個學者的標準他們是抓CPI2他們認為2是比較OK的狀況低於1就很不妙高於3也很不妙不知道你這個講法你贊不贊成這個就是說委員講的沒有錯不過我稍微再補充一下就先進國家來講他是這樣子沒有錯但是對開發中國家來講的話"},{"start":3476.993,"end":3497.804,"text":"開發中國家因為他的經濟成長都一直在往前嘛所以他的通膨率基本上呢都會比較高所以呢很多開發中國家呢他的通膨率有的3%到6%3%8%到7%這個就是他的range所以呢也就是說各個國家的一個發展的程度的不一樣所以他的range就會不一樣"},{"start":3497.964,"end":3515.021,"text":"那你認為臺灣應該在哪個range是比較好?一到三之間是比較合理我們還是以2作為基準他最好不要距離2太遠所以不應該把2叫做通膨警戒性如果叫警戒性應該是3"},{"start":3520.626,"end":3540.515,"text":"是不是,如果依照剛剛這個討論的話是沒有錯,委員我再補充一下就是說這個2呢也不是說2就是因為他通膨也不是說你碰到2那就不行不是,那是你讓他就像委員說的碰到3沒關係但是中長期的目標都一定要讓他回復到2%左右對,因為"},{"start":3542.896,"end":3571.417,"text":"其實我們的鄰國日本就是很好的例子長期的CPI都低但是他們失落了30年到了後面這幾年反而是日本政府想辦法要讓CPI能夠接近2所以這個日本政府也是為了這個付出相當的代價所以在什麼時空談論什麼議題的時候也是還是要有比較長遠的眼光最近一個議題很荒我想要請教你"},{"start":3572.277,"end":3600.127,"text":"去年因為第10屆立委本委員會有委員提這個財富主權基金那現在聽說他們同黨的在這個會期又要在捲土重來你對這個剛剛你的報告裡面有講他說你覺得有三個東西我有看了我是想要補充一下說別的國家對這個主權基金的"},{"start":3601.547,"end":3627.633,"text":"這個設置主要不是退休金不然的話就是他們國家的天然資源有要到天然氣石油所以有國家在掌控財富去弄去弄這個主權基金不過我要跟你說一個我的一點點我的看法如果台灣設主權基金啊你們現在有請這個行政院有請這個國發會在研究嘛賺錢大家都會很高興的賺的不夠還會罵你"},{"start":3629.133,"end":3633.175,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":3656.087,"end":3684.492,"text":"因為他的一個整個的一個政治的結果跟我們台灣不大一樣不大一樣所以呢基本上呢他們是比較容易容易來就是說這個問題呢就比較不會就比較會淡化因為他的政治結果跟我們不大一樣好主席我來請教你總裁我來請教你一個問題是假設立法院硬塞了一個主權基金的法律嗯"},{"start":3686.697,"end":3706.071,"text":"行政院9月延年結果他不享受結果立法院用多數黨硬塞一個法令這樣這樣子在政治上適合嗎因為將來這個主權機關管理還是要行政機關來管理啊總不可能立法委員立法委員自己領選人來管理嘛所以"},{"start":3707.39,"end":3719.975,"text":"這個就是憲法裡面為什麼會規定說立法委員不得為增加預算的支出同樣的概念行政機關沒要花這筆錢你立法機關不能我一筆錢給你花"},{"start":3721.653,"end":3743.028,"text":"那人家要如何執行因為事實上在落實執行的是行政機關嘛所以我現在是請教你這個問題如果在野的多數黨一篩一個這樣的法令給你那你一再講說不要設在我央行這個跟我的基金都不合我也不管我就一一篩給你利用我是多數黨就一一篩給你那你要如何處理勒"},{"start":3746.148,"end":3761.496,"text":"這個阿包委員我也沒辦法回答這個問題啊我也沒辦法回答但是呢我還是在強調就是說全球的全球的主權基金因為講的主權呢主權就是政府的錢"},{"start":3762.765,"end":3789.02,"text":"那塞給中央銀行呢?因為中央銀行他是資產負債表我們的資產呢他的背後就是負債那是負債所以呢他是資產跟負債是平衡的不是說我這個資產不像那個政府的錢那主權財富基金那個是政府的錢那印塞在中央銀行的中央銀行法裡面呢他是完全是說不過去的"},{"start":3789.96,"end":3812.122,"text":"這個也就是說為什麼全球全世界的中央銀行法裡面沒有說來設主權基金這也是為什麼我們第10屆立委也是在一名的主席的開會的過程中最後他決定沒有去處理這個事情嘛就代表我們基本上有這樣的共識行政機關不願意的東西你立法機關硬塞給他"},{"start":3813.858,"end":3828.599,"text":"這個基本上基本上是違反憲法剛剛講的這個精神我當然這是類比因為憲法條文沒有明白講說你不可以立法這樣做他只是跟你講說你立法委員不可以為增加預算的提案"},{"start":3829.74,"end":3850.738,"text":"他意思是說行政機關沒有這個施政計畫沒有用這條錢沒有由立法院來發動硬要塞給行政機關叫他非花這條錢不可沒有不可以有這樣子的概念我是說舉這樣子一個是錢的一個是制度的行政機關現在沒有要這個制度你硬塞給他他如何執行"},{"start":3852.159,"end":3876.173,"text":"那他一個幹部院的執行也不可能有好好執行嘛那也不知道跟自己的制度漢格他也不知道如何處理嘛所以我是覺得這個應該有這一方面的聲音也要表達出來讓社會大眾多一些考慮跟思考的空間再來就是說你們現在有開始在研究這個數位的這個數位貨幣貨幣政策"},{"start":3879.295,"end":3899.361,"text":"我個人對這個東西瞭解不是非常的深但是我有幾個跟你討論的概念最早中國為什麼會趕快去發行這個電子支付大家都說什麼彎道超說他很先進其實不是啦一開始原因是因為中國的假超太多處理都處理不完嘛"},{"start":3900.461,"end":3919.336,"text":"第二個就是中國共產黨要嚴格的控制你錢可以在哪裡花所以你經過這個數字這個電子的支付你所有的交易軌跡跟誰交易在哪裡做什麼他全部都清清楚楚這個毫無這個毫無這個隱私可言"},{"start":3920.928,"end":3947.771,"text":"現在中國進一步要推他的數字人民幣我跟你說如果你違反政府你連一頓飯都沒得吃了因為我從頭上面把你的數字控制住你的銀行就馬上被他鎖住了你能花的錢就變零啊那你事實上已經沒有貨幣了他推到極致的時候是沒有貨幣的只有數字啊當他被你鎖住的時候當你把他鎖住的時候連一頓飯都吃不起"},{"start":3949.102,"end":3973.908,"text":"這是共產主義要的最重要一定要趕快推這個東西的我認為最主要的原因委員我也來稍微補充一下事實上最近我聽那個FED就是美國的那個聯準會的主席Power他也在講他說他們要推動這個CBDC他們要非常的小心特別是"},{"start":3975.908,"end":3999.026,"text":"對於隱私權的這個部分他必須要非常非常的小心那這個就會談到就是說剛剛委員所講到的就是說現在中國大陸他現在在推行這個隱私權的這個他就比較不care那這個就跟民主國家的一個隱私權的著重的重視是迥然不一樣的"},{"start":4000.855,"end":4026.235,"text":"總裁我再跟你補充喔其實中國現在也有開始反思的聲音出來了因為中國現在去中國的人當然因為他集權他立了一個什麼國安法使得大家都不想去可是其中一個因為他都用數字支付讓外國的旅客在中國使用非常的不方便他進到中國他如果沒有那個系統他如何把他的錢花出去都有困難啊"},{"start":4027.611,"end":4053.505,"text":"所以連中國的觀光旅遊業都現在都吃到這個苦果所以我的意思是說你要推動這個東西你在研究我也不是反對但是要研究清楚利弊得失都要考慮清楚那這個還有很長的一條路走不要很急因為日本這麼多年來日本的這個現金還是他們國人最喜歡用的東西好不好以上建議謝謝請你參考謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":4061.516,"end":4063.978,"text":"接著請賴世保賴委員質詢謝謝主席一起各先進有請楊金龍總裁請楊總裁老人早"},{"start":4086.257,"end":4091.64,"text":"我能不能講說現在都處於全球處於一個牛市可以這樣講嗎"},{"start":4112.955,"end":4140.496,"text":"目前為止暫時的牛市沒有錯我可以同意還可以維持多久不過我也跟委員報告因為美國他的一個金融市場漲的這個程度事實上市場也開始有一些的聲音出來了他有漲過頭你的意思是說美國股市漲得不健康是吧對他就說有泡沫之雨"},{"start":4140.936,"end":4166.844,"text":"好我圖沒有來來來有我看到一則報導說現在的美國股市講美國股市不是講台灣股市喔這外國人寫的一篇我們把它扣下來他說現在美國股市的走勢很像2008年的網路泡沫化那個那篇你看到沒有就Doccom的那個情況對我有"},{"start":4168.985,"end":4194.752,"text":"有,他也認為就是說可能就跟那個.com bubble是很相似的要提醒要抓起來全球金融市場未來會bubble嗎這個就是說所以呢我就有些時候就在想就是說金融市場他有些時候他就是說在理論上都說金融市場他本身會自我調整"},{"start":4195.552,"end":4221.839,"text":"但是這一句話呢是後來印證是不對在理論上都說金融市場會自我調整但是到最後你看看2008年呢他就整個crush下來他沒有自我調整啊他也是一樣的啊他也沒有自我調整啊所以呢也就是說市場呢是有些時候所以那個什麼Alan Greenspan有一個名言就是說非理性的融資"},{"start":4223.493,"end":4231.295,"text":"非理性的容金所以呢市場呢他不會的我們要說市場是理性的現在是不是非理性的容金"},{"start":4234.472,"end":4258.832,"text":"我們只能就是說用以前的來稍微做換了就是說如果理性的自我調整叫做軟著陸非理性的呢crush叫做硬著陸好我們現在再看一個specifically來講的話具體來講日本負利率要結束了"},{"start":4266.882,"end":4281.775,"text":"基本上呢短期間他可能會反映就是說他如果說他結束他的負利率但是負利率呢他是短期啦但是長期呢長期他還是寬鬆啊"},{"start":4282.896,"end":4297.983,"text":"相較其他的美國呢他還是寬鬆啊他只是說把他的那個那個什麼year curve的control就是說那個10年期的0%求你啦我問你他的互利率把他結束掉對於日本的經濟復甦有沒有幫助"},{"start":4299.644,"end":4305.57,"text":"所以這個就是說他非常謹慎的地方應該就是說他認為他是已經sustainable他已經是很穩定的成長了以後呢他才會結束他的互利"},{"start":4317.66,"end":4339.388,"text":"是不是日本的經濟會好起來吧比以前好吧當然現在以目前來講的話呢是所以呢他是上來我們來看美國過去大力升息美國現在基本利率多少現在美國基本利率是5%到5%我們幾幾基本利率多少我們大概將近2%將近2%他是5點多對"},{"start":4344.75,"end":4373.758,"text":"台灣過去因為他們美國要打打通膨是拼命升息台灣不太升現在呢大家預估說美國的FDFED他在6月份會降息可是相對的因為台灣有電價要漲啦我們現在CPI這個居高離下這個居高不下的情況之下所以台灣可能會升息嗯"},{"start":4377.44,"end":4398.758,"text":"我剛剛也有稍微談到這一點台灣要謹慎第一個就是說雖然我們現在大概2%但是你看我們如果說電價上漲的話就中央銀行的一個觀點我們上一次是將近我們的通膨率是比主力總數還高我們是估測是差不多1.9"},{"start":4400.279,"end":4422.567,"text":"那如果說你的電價一上漲的話呢恐怕就是說會突破2%那除了這個就2%可是8月份的CPA已經到3了對不對就是說2%是左右是沒有錯啦但是我們要想喔我們要想就是說我們的通膨率你看看"},{"start":4423.207,"end":4450.976,"text":"在前幾年的1.972.952.582.49然後呢現在又超過2那明年呢所以呢也就是說你的通膨如果說太長的話超過2太長的話呢那麼這個通膨的預期的心理呢就會很強勒以後呢你要把通膨再打下來你現在一直講2齁我剛剛一直跟你提醒了2月份已經3了"},{"start":4452.717,"end":4469.531,"text":"但是2月份3 3是因為是因為是結入的關係這個是一個是春節的關係所以1月跟2月相處兩個除起來的時候呢大概是2.43啦2.43是高的喔照你來所以可以這麼講楊金龍總裁心理的CPI防線大概就是2到2.5之間是不是"},{"start":4479.232,"end":4480.033,"text":"我可以這樣進一步推論"},{"start":4494.258,"end":4507.582,"text":"如果長期台灣的CPI到了2.5以上的話 我講長期也就是說拖個幾個月差不多樣樣就要升息了 不然控制不了 會這樣說嗎 我跟委員報告 我們會謹慎的來討論這個問題"},{"start":4512.625,"end":4524.228,"text":"但是請相與同意我的話這句話可以嗎?可以嗎?差不多啦差不多就是我講這句話啦電價上漲10%以上會不會產生結構性改變?"},{"start":4538.558,"end":4565.568,"text":"如果說是純粹只有電價的話那也不一定啦那也不一定因為剛剛已經電價帶動到57張啊什麼不一定奇怪這結構性的改變嗎剛剛我講到了兩個重點第一個重點就是通膨的預期第二個呢也就是說一個是螺旋式的也就是說我時間沒這麼多請你簡單回答就是電價上漲不會改變CPI的結構是不是你的意思應該是不會"},{"start":4566.751,"end":4567.516,"text":"應該是不會 不會喔 不會"},{"start":4569.672,"end":4570.132,"text":"會啦!"},{"start":4570.132,"end":4570.452,"text":"不會!"},{"start":4570.452,"end":4571.873,"text":"你看漲多少啦!"},{"start":4571.873,"end":4572.693,"text":"你要漲20%!"},{"start":4572.693,"end":4574.493,"text":"你看嘛!"},{"start":4574.493,"end":4575.453,"text":"漲28看看啦!"},{"start":4575.453,"end":4583.335,"text":"不會!我們所謂的結構性的改變就誠如我剛剛就說我們長期的時間都是差不多平均1%但是以後呢?"},{"start":4583.335,"end":4585.435,"text":"等一下漲上去長期就不會頂了!來來來!"},{"start":4585.435,"end":4585.916,"text":"我時間不多!不是!"},{"start":4585.916,"end":4589.116,"text":"那個結構那個是暫時性的結構的改變而不是長期性的結構我所說的長期性的結構是長期性的結構"},{"start":4599.238,"end":4620.433,"text":"這個委員很關心阿媒體也很關心阿我們那個EID阿數位身份證阿政府好高興喔說董委你要掐起10億賠損失結果我們討價人家2.8好高興結果人家馬上抓出來阿另外的委員說不是阿你買的設備是4.2億你告訴我是3.9億到底設備是3.9還是4.2"},{"start":4624.236,"end":4628.34,"text":"這個齁 詳細請請因為齁 這位委員來來來來講一下講一下 這個這個多少錢吶 來不及去跟委員報告一下齁 英治廠的設備和 不不不 你就講這個因為我時間快到了來 這個設備多少錢 3.9還是4.2 3.79億 3.79億 設備的 啊已經折救了3年對不對 3年我們折救了"},{"start":4649.295,"end":4655.704,"text":"1.34億還剩多少?還剩2.46億2.46億怎麼處理?早上怎麼處理?來告訴我目前我們跟內政部是暫緩執行當中所以合約還是保持在那邊?"},{"start":4665.446,"end":4682.524,"text":"暫緩實施他就不是資產啦他就根本以那個以那個這個會計準則他就不能當資產他等於是廢鐵一堆啦一定不會用啊這個案子沒有了請問這部機器能不能用到其他地方"},{"start":4683.324,"end":4711.091,"text":"這部機器我們現在跟內政部在考慮可以用在別的卡片上因為我們的機器它的生產這個機器專門用專門用數位的身份證不能用在別的地方啦所以基本上是等於全部報廢掉了這個東西是這樣啦這個設備我們現在跟內政部建議可以用在有卡片的有晶片的卡片或者沒有什麼時候可以有結果"},{"start":4712.151,"end":4735.456,"text":"那這個要等客戶內政部這邊決定我跟你講阿現在看起來這等於報廢掉了你沒想到不是只有報廢最後一題好不好最後一題來來你們兩位請回來總裁這是不是你的央行報告裡面破天荒幾十年來第一次在報告裡面主動提主權基金是不是是沒有錯"},{"start":4735.976,"end":4762.403,"text":"代表兩總裁注入這個事主權基金沒有錯我們主席這個讓你這麼發揮主席要給他肯定一下主席的用意都是很好的就是讓你講結果你現在把主權基金放進來我仔細的讀了一下我幫你摘幾個重點因為我時間快基本上到了不要耽誤其他我們太多時間但是讓我講完這個很重要"},{"start":4764.804,"end":4786.72,"text":"你贊成但是不贊成無償使用外匯存底對吧是沒有錯第二個如果是用政府的錢去存立什麼基金你通通沒有意見但是需要外匯來錢拿來台幣給我我還美金給你就這個意思嗎講八萬這樣對吧第三個"},{"start":4789.782,"end":4817.825,"text":"你反對修中央銀行法是沒有錯如果要設就設一個專法這個對吧對以上都對嗎沒有錯淡馬錫他們最喜歡講淡馬錫其他的國家的這些的其實他們都用政府的錢就是我剛剛所講的就是你報告寫的是需要買用到外匯跟央行買是沒有錯但是都是用他們自己的錢最後一點"},{"start":4819.742,"end":4836.858,"text":"國外一樣主權基金的操作績效不見得往後賠錢的也很多啦所以總而言之就是第一個你的重點就是要就立專法不可以修改銀行法第二個"},{"start":4838.223,"end":4852.349,"text":"你要用我的錢沒有無償的要錢拿來台幣給我我給你明鏡就這樣子沒錯吧以上所講的我跟你有這個對話我完全支持你的立場好不好好謝謝謝謝謝謝主席主席辛苦了有請楊總裁楊總裁"},{"start":4872.208,"end":4899.076,"text":"國文早總裁好總裁拜讀你今天的這個業務報告內容當中預估今年的這個CPI的部分是1.89嘛GDP是3.12嘛對不對可是我每次這三年觀察你的這個預估值包括CPI也好或GDP也好有一個特性也就是CPI的部分通膨的這個指數的部分都是在2以下"},{"start":4899.716,"end":4899.736,"text":"2020就變2.95"},{"start":4922.91,"end":4948.537,"text":"啊2022的時候預估的這個GDP多少你是預估4.03但實質上呢是2.45到去年2023CPI蓬蓬的部分你去預估1.88實質上呢是2.5然後呢2023的部分呢GDP的部分呢你是預估2.53實質上是1.2特別是去年啊對啊"},{"start":4950.037,"end":4964.803,"text":"該2以下的它超過2GDP變成2.5該2以上的GDP它變成2以下變1.2所以去年就有人說是不是可能會有停滯性通膨當然是沒有那麼嚴重啦那接近啦有那種跡象啦"},{"start":4966.346,"end":4989.808,"text":"總裁,您今天的預估會準嗎?我跟委員報告,事實上就是說...你前兩年都漏氣耶對,沒有錯而且你還有動用升息耶我要誠實要跟委員報告就確實就是說央行這幾年的一個預測都沒有很準確都不準啊對不對都不準"},{"start":4990.268,"end":5015.388,"text":"但是呢我當然啦這個也許我這樣子講委員會認為就是說我推卸責任事實上呢全球每一個機構的預測都沒有準那也因為因為你有比較過全國每個機構都沒有準那你是比較不準的不準那一個還是比較接近準的那一個也許我們會比較準我們是不準但是比較準"},{"start":5016.994,"end":5034.933,"text":"有這麼接近不準的準嗎對對對對因為這個是我跟委員報告喔預測齁你不要台灣人民不會去看其他機構啦只會看你而已啦當然當然但是呢就是說我要跟委員報告就是說這幾年為什麼就是說大家都不準你要想想看喔"},{"start":5036.234,"end":5047.217,"text":"從中美貿易衝突之後過來呢就是COVID-19二屋戰爭那美國的battle neck supply chain的那個battle neck我跟委員報告那個時候呢"},{"start":5054.139,"end":5058.642,"text":"總裁不好意思我打斷你啊因為那個是真的大問題我沒有時間聽你說但我很願意聽啊但質詢時間非常寶貴我現在就問你嘛明年你有沒有把握嗎"},{"start":5076.93,"end":5083.917,"text":"你剛剛講的那個已經發生好幾年了喔現在沒有新的國際情勢變數了喔中美衝突已經衝突好幾年了喔國際戰爭也是在持續喔所以說在這種情況底下變數沒有變的情況底下你保證這一個3.12跟1.89可以達成嗎"},{"start":5100.039,"end":5109.967,"text":"我想這個3.12比較容易啦比較容易我在想這個3.12是比較容易那然後呢這個CPI的這個1.89就是說2024年的1.89我們的1.89沒有放這個電價"},{"start":5118.955,"end":5124.816,"text":"沒有放電價所以說1.89的挑戰性比較高變數比較大所以1.89比較沒有把握GDP3.12部分比較有把握但是委員我要跟委員報告就是說這個CPI呢我們這3個月份的理監事會會很謹慎的去討論它真的要很謹慎我知道但是你都不會講到底會不會調所以我不用問"},{"start":5146.681,"end":5170.077,"text":"接下來我問的說你不只這件失準欸總裁我今天不是來給你漏氣的你看之前你也是說2023年上半年房市會開始軟著陸亮先駕行我先看最近的一些報紙標題連中金院喔他對房市啊說2024上半年景氣的表現會看好"},{"start":5171.258,"end":5187.057,"text":"一般的民間的一些地產網啊一些媒體啊都說喔以後會開綠燈然後呢今天呢我拜讀你的報告呢你說喔就像我之前一直問你為什麼資本啊一直集中在房地產結果你今天的報告居然寫說喔是因為清安貸"},{"start":5188.294,"end":5217.88,"text":"總裁千萬不要這樣寫啦清安貸是政府一個體貼青年給他居住正義的一個政策工具結果清安貸所有的餘款夯不啷噹加起來我算了一下7929億的餘額也不過占所有目前啊這不動場的占比13.7兆當中的0.57%啊你報告當中你把推給清安貸這對這青年對政策都是一種否定啊"},{"start":5218.08,"end":5220.781,"text":"我沒有說他是推高房價的幫兇我沒有這樣說我來讓你看一下那個數字"},{"start":5246.296,"end":5252.622,"text":"不動場的販款的比例真的往上攀升下一頁目前高達37.4%下一頁"},{"start":5256.86,"end":5257.08,"text":"總裁我這邊要"},{"start":5276.4,"end":5294.796,"text":"拜託你了你是不是想想其他好的辦法讓資本不要那麼集中因為你報告過說之所以高房價的原因是因為這些不動產的貸款資本過度集中的關係所造成的結果那既然是這樣子要如何把它降低唯有你啊還有誰因為總體經濟的操盤手啊"},{"start":5298.699,"end":5326.23,"text":"對阿 怎麼怪清安代你要想辦法阿委員 不用齁就是說把那個什麼以前我們信用管制從生產方建商你也做信用管制你從消費方第二個房屋你也貸款七成第三個房屋你貸款四成你都做了如果說報委員如果說房地產這個要健全發展如果說要"},{"start":5327.25,"end":5341.866,"text":"要單獨靠中央銀行的話呢那麼不是單獨靠你我是總體經濟啦國發會呢就是不會就是說是來一個建權房屋方案建權房屋方案你看看那個參與的部會沒有"},{"start":5347.552,"end":5368.927,"text":"那個總裁不要扯到那邊去啦你作為一個總體經濟的一個操盤手來說你還沒有其他的方式嘛譬如講是不是還有其他的利率我舉一個簡單的例子過去我們貸款陳述之外的限制之外不要讓它過度集中之外利率也是一個變數有沒有可能嘛我要跟委員報告就是說利率啊基本上呢是有"},{"start":5374.171,"end":5377.536,"text":"對付通膨的我們很對付通膨的不是我不是說那個"},{"start":5380.017,"end":5406.735,"text":"不是全體的利率啦是特定的利率就交易方的利率交易方交易方也是特定對象喔交易方比如買方問題就是在這裡啦第一個利率自由化這個是利率呢銀行要跟要跟那個客戶charge這個利率呢你如果利率自由化利率不能做一個偵測工具的話那你還有其他的偵測工具嗎"},{"start":5407.515,"end":5427.628,"text":"總裁所以呢你看看在新加坡呢他在兌付房價的話他就兩個工具而已第一個工具呢就是稅第二個工具選擇性信用管制他就是這兩個對這兩個工具那你信用你如果這樣子稅不在你的手頭上你就是要信用管制的部分看還有沒有其他工具我們還會檢討還會檢討還會檢討所以說你還有武器還沒有端出來我們還會檢討還有還有布我們滾動的檢討你還有其他的布束嗎我們還會滾動的檢討還有"},{"start":5436.414,"end":5452.321,"text":"還有那最近會不會考慮推出來我們3月份我們會會討論有沒有新的部署做新的新的管制出來不然你資本集中過度集中應該不下逐漸攀升你月管制的結果還高升到37.4%我跟委員報告我們的禮監事會"},{"start":5459.424,"end":5483.057,"text":"每次都會就利率跟選擇性資本管制討論對討論很久我知道這兩個是關鍵雙率是關鍵拉回來說我在就一個數字在讓您參考最近一貼服很夯嗎幾千億跑到兩兆兩兆看起來好像很多但兩兆嚴格來說做總體的這個存款來說算什麼台幣的存款從2020開始每年增加三兆欸"},{"start":5484.258,"end":5502.12,"text":"增加到現在已經48.57兆了這兩兆算什麼根本沒什麼可是你如果讓這兩兆跑到房地產去那不是更嚴重嗎總裁你認同我的看法嗎我想是這樣子就是說那個股市跟房地產也有關聯"},{"start":5503.922,"end":5519.494,"text":"對 有些連動性啦但是正聯動負聯動也很難講因為你的股市如果是上漲的時候呢他對這個房地產他也有支撐的力道沒有總裁我最後再一件事情請你也上位研究一下"},{"start":5520.534,"end":5539.262,"text":"我認為就是因為國際的QE的狀況中美衝突台商回流資金跑回來他現在減少對外投資的意願以至於資金現在過度氾濫油資過多到底油資有多少我私底下在請教您多少啦那個規模有多少成長讓你有測試出來掌握以至於說油資再多推高了房市推高了股市"},{"start":5539.722,"end":5559.853,"text":"推高了CPI推高了物價的可能性那在這種情況的現狀底下我要請總裁去思考一下還有沒有除了升息以外的政策工具可以讓這個油資減少而讓房市股市還有包括物價不用因為油資過多台國際的QE的關係而受到影響而堆高啦"},{"start":5561.457,"end":5589.189,"text":"委員這個問題我們中央銀行還有理監事會都會去很嚴肅的去討論它嚴肅討論所以我一切等待3月份的這個中央會議和理事會的結論是不是當然啦這個是其中之一而已啦當然啦就是說理監事會就是說我們這一次很比較接近的一個重點理監事的重點那你這份的部分可以一份書面給本席嘛我好好來拜讀一下"},{"start":5590.236,"end":5590.916,"text":"接下來質詢李彥秀李委員"},{"start":5621.374,"end":5624.757,"text":"我可不可以請楊總裁請楊總裁李委員早早安總裁我想你的數學一定比我好很多委員太客氣了總裁我有一個數學小學生的數學要請教你對不對如果A小學"},{"start":5647.615,"end":5667.657,"text":"他有一百個學生一百五十個學生那他的平均身高是一百A小學的平均身高是一百五十公分B小學的平均身高是一百七十公分所以兩間小學的平均身高是一百六十公分這樣的計算方法對不對"},{"start":5669.892,"end":5681.122,"text":"A小學平均身高是150公分B小學的平均身高譬如說是170公分兩個數字加起來除以2是這兩個學校的平均身高這樣數學算法對嗎應該是喔"},{"start":5690.563,"end":5692.124,"text":"所以我就說委員的數學比我好啊"},{"start":5716.861,"end":5739.073,"text":"總裁我為什麼問你這個數學問題我昨天很認真的看了你的報告我們最近主計處也做了我們今年在2月底也剛公布了我們的經濟預測的最新的指數我也觀察到你們也很用心央行也很用心對於國內外13家"},{"start":5742.436,"end":5757.189,"text":"業者機構專門有在做經濟預測的機構也做了一個預測分析最後的結果你們就把這幾家各做的分析除以13所以我們的經濟預測變3.18跟"},{"start":5761.465,"end":5788.184,"text":"我們主計處所計算出來的3.43這個數字是完全不一樣總裁我為什麼會講因為主計處計算出來他有考量到很多不同的因素在裡面但是你們居然就把這13家這個外面的機構國內外銀行還有在做經濟預測的機構加起來除以13這個數字差很多對於整年度的經濟預測"},{"start":5790.168,"end":5812.709,"text":"就會有不同的一些結果我的意思是說我們要努力的方向政策方就會有不同的結果所以我不知道為什麼我們不用我們自己組技術所計算出來的經濟預測反而把這些機構加起來除以13我跟委員報告就是說預測剛剛就是說前面的委員也談到了這個說預測就是說時長都不準"},{"start":5816.528,"end":5825.079,"text":"那我們都要接受就是說預測都不準的啦這是第一點第二個呢預測我老師以前都是在講預測值參考值"},{"start":5827.355,"end":5853.04,"text":"那參考只是什麼意思呢?就是說預測呢?總裁對不起喔我要打斷你的話喔因為我期間不多主要其實還要問其他的問題經濟預測對於各單位對於我們接下來包括整個主計處要如何去財政部要去各單位怎麼樣去處理預算我們在產業界我們如何去做扶植都很重要所以我的意思是說差一點點差很多"},{"start":5853.96,"end":5864.57,"text":"所以到底是3.43對還是你的3.13對那但是你們計算的方法居然只是把這13家國內外的銀行業也好有在做經濟預測的學界產業界的機構加起來除以13"},{"start":5868.851,"end":5895.393,"text":"我覺得如果要用這樣子的方式的話我覺得對於未來我們經濟就是各單位政府的投入我覺得會有相當大的差異所以這個數字其實是很重要這是我要強調的地方委員講的沒有錯我非常贊同委員的說法謝謝總裁好總裁我時間我就轉一個話題因為我今天主要其實我還是要問一下最近民眾跟"},{"start":5896.914,"end":5918.779,"text":"整個中央都非常關注的有關於虛擬貨幣的問題央行最近在討論規劃CBDC在媒體上我也看到討論度非常多五月份其實我們也委託產官學界做了一些民調跟研究案那五月份會公佈但我們都非常清楚知道我們這個虛擬貨幣接下來如果真的要推的話我們會面臨幾個最大的挑戰第一個"},{"start":5924.56,"end":5940.493,"text":"民眾他到底會用不願意使用第二商家他能不能接受因為你可能有新的一些機器設備你要投入人力成本法規面更重要是民眾使用的意願這幾個大概就是我們面臨最大的挑戰"},{"start":5942.315,"end":5962.326,"text":"我關注到你們這個研究的做法因為我沒有從你的報告當中看到你們是用電話民調還是會辦公聽會包括你有沒有跟店家溝通過就是民眾的意願是什麼民眾我覺得很難是用電話調查知道聽懂數位貨幣這件事情"},{"start":5963.206,"end":5967.409,"text":"我們是我是不是請我同事來回答這個問題因為這個民調是他來執行的"},{"start":5973.551,"end":5991.029,"text":"各位報告我們就是為了民調先做這個電訪還有網路就電話的訪問還有網路的訪問還有實體的訪問他有三種都有進行那我們到查完之後那個資料後續會提到公聽會是"},{"start":5993.831,"end":6010.54,"text":"總裁我感覺就是說用民調電話因為數位貨幣這件事情對於一般的民眾你要用電話或民調去跟他講清楚我覺得就我來讀這些資料我都要重複讀好幾遍更何況是一般民眾"},{"start":6011.46,"end":6027.027,"text":"如果央行對於未來數位貨幣的推動是重大政策而且有時間點我勢在必行我不知道因為現在各國對於數位貨幣這件事情都還在討論階段要跨出這一步恐怕都有很大的挑戰沒有錯沒有錯"},{"start":6031.545,"end":6057.801,"text":"所以我不知道你這個數位貨幣只是還停留在初期還是真的要進行還是我們要跟上國際潮流這個是我覺得你們要思考的地方第二點總裁我還是要跟你接下去討論我們整個虛擬貨幣的政策因為虛擬貨幣的核心概念其實它就是要去中心化要顛覆我們央行代表國家主權發行法定貨幣的機關"},{"start":6059.582,"end":6081.619,"text":"所以到底法定貨幣跟我們現在的無論是比特幣這些虛擬貨幣到底是不是零和遊戲還是未來你希望在台灣我們跟虛擬貨幣跟法定貨幣我們是有機會共存來去推動這些政策我們有沒有平衡點我跟委員報告基本上就是說像虛擬貨幣那一種虛擬貨幣不是貨幣"},{"start":6085.503,"end":6086.424,"text":"總裁因為這些在上次你到的辦公室我們都討論非常多所以"},{"start":6103.963,"end":6128.011,"text":"我看到在111年你出席很多會議包括金融資訊會你都對於這些虛擬貨幣無論是比特幣你都認為它是風險性的資產包括它都是在投機炒作無法獲得這個大眾信任包括我們蘇副總裁都認為它是波動過大它也沒有價值它的穩定性也不足就是說我覺得整體央行對於虛擬貨幣的"},{"start":6130.932,"end":6138.576,"text":"態度似乎沒有太多的正面評價我說到這邊都因為我從你們幾次對外的談話都是如此對沒有錯我們沒有對我們對我們對特別是我們對投資者來講的話我們要警告他就是說不要以為就是說這種虛擬資產虛擬資產是一種貨幣"},{"start":6155.029,"end":6157.631,"text":"我都同意政府還是要善盡所有可能有可能的風險但是"},{"start":6176.984,"end":6199.278,"text":"總裁我也關注到金管會這幾年對於這些虛擬貨幣的態度好像也有一點轉變包括我們金管會我們納管虛擬貨幣包括你訂了十大的指導原則包括我們也對於他們相關的交易平台我們讓他們成立申請工會然後我們也納入金管會的金錢對於虛擬貨幣等等"},{"start":6202.2,"end":6221.032,"text":"這些狀況這些後續金管會的處理的模式包括成立公會等等等到底有沒有跟央行做過溝通你們兩邊的態度是不是一致我們有而且我們也尊重金管會的一個做法它是循序漸進的一個這個循序漸進的轉折是因為"},{"start":6224.714,"end":6250.313,"text":"現在很多年輕人都喜歡對於虛擬貨幣很感興趣投機鎖號所以我們要這樣做回應是不是所以你們態度才有這樣的轉折是不是這是一個趨勢這是一個趨勢我要跟委員報告這是一個趨勢所以在監管在央行對於虛擬貨幣其實沒有任何的正面評價但是因為他是一個趨勢所以我們的態度才有這樣的轉圜"},{"start":6252.094,"end":6272.581,"text":"應該也可以這麼說啦應該可以這麼說啦好那我就要提醒提醒總裁我覺得這件事情我覺得後面我們還是要做更多持續的關注因為我今天時間不夠其實我還是想針對經濟的問題因為我看到你們對於整份工作報告對於未來的CPI也好或者經濟預測也好"},{"start":6274.221,"end":6300.698,"text":"其實你也做了很多的投入包括過去這3年我們的實質經常性薪資是倒退的連續3年倒退包括我們總薪資也是倒退的狀況那你對於接下來的經濟研究包括我們產業的轉型其實你有很多的看法跟想法所以沒有關係因為後面還有專案報告我希望藉由後面的專案報告再進一步的跟總裁做更多的"},{"start":6301.198,"end":6301.218,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":6316.539,"end":6335.318,"text":"大多數的臺灣人其實是沒有錢玩股票的所以我們的經濟如何有機會產業轉型結構更好讓所有的臺灣的民眾可以享受到真正臺灣經濟的紅利就可能要我們的央行我們財政部我們各單位一起大家共同來努力好謝謝總裁委員的意見"},{"start":6341.997,"end":6356.549,"text":"下一份請賴會員賴委員那現場還有王宏威委員那等一下王委員質詢完畢我們就休息五分鐘謝謝好謝謝主席有請那個楊總裁請楊總裁"},{"start":6364.386,"end":6376.905,"text":"總裁早安我想今天針對我們在去年央行對於CPI的一個多次上修的一個原因來跟總裁做一個討教"},{"start":6378.787,"end":6398.256,"text":"在這個2023年其實前年的CPI年增率已經是到了這是這15年來的第二高那我們從主計總處的一個統計的一個數字裡頭我們可以看到了2023年前年度CPI的年增率已經到了2.5%那今年的二月率的CPI"},{"start":6399.389,"end":6417.441,"text":"其實年增率也來到了3.08那在這裡要請教總裁為什麼就是說在這個2023這個CPI的一個增加是這麼高呢他他可能存在的原因你們怎麼樣來看待這一個那個CPI的一個上升"},{"start":6418.975,"end":6447.285,"text":"我跟委員報告我們的CPI在2023年是2.5沒有錯2.49後來這個主計總署修改為2.49那在2022年的時候是2.95那表示說2023年是有下降下來那下降下來主要的因素主要的還是在服務類"},{"start":6448.405,"end":6471.634,"text":"外食啦肉類還有服務服務類服務類就那個剛好就是說我們我們不要再服務業是不是因為整個疫情的一個影響是是是疫情放寬了以後你看看我們到國外去的啦還有就那個整個的餐飲業啦這些都很都很多的成長率都很高所以呢他帶動了還包括你的你的那個什麼那個那個旅遊啦"},{"start":6477.256,"end":6497.83,"text":"所以住宿啦這些都是很非常熱絡的那我們從央行的新聞稿裡頭我們去看得出來就是說你們在就是整個那個CPI的一個年增率的一個臆測裡頭有你們已經有注意到就是近期的民生物價一直在上漲嘛今天提到了娛樂的一個問題那這個價格高漲"},{"start":6501.052,"end":6516.691,"text":"况且他已經是超乎我們的一個預期然後還有就是整個就是氣候變遷啦還是情流感啦這些食物類那這個食指的一個總薪資一直在下跌那定存利率趕不上通膨"},{"start":6517.572,"end":6542.034,"text":"民眾的錢變少了變薄了其實你真正的你面臨到的是一個實質的負利率那你怎麼看待這個事情呢所以呢也就是說這個就是說我們在去年的時候呢整個的特別是製造業他整個薪資下跌為什麼因為國外的需求下降嘛所以呢他的整個的製造業的那個薪資就下來"},{"start":6542.975,"end":6558.481,"text":"五月還好但是總的來講還是負的但是呢我們到今年來看的話呢我們要說我們的我們今年2024年的經濟成長會比較好會比較好為什麼會比較好呢因為就是說"},{"start":6562.603,"end":6584.854,"text":"全球的一個出口會復甦我們出口復甦了以後我們投資會增加我們去年的投資是負的今年會正的我們出口正我們的我們出口如果是正成長的話我們投資也會正成長那而且我們的consumption我們的消費這個部分還是依然有動能我想這個這個這個"},{"start":6588.435,"end":6610.404,"text":"這個整個連動我們大家都非常的理解可是問題就是說你的定存利率就是1.56那可是你的通膨這麼的嚴重那你沒有辦法如果說央行沒有辦法去感受到就是我們實際上老百姓的一個那個體溫上的一個通膨那怎麼辦呢錢確實是變薄啦"},{"start":6614.987,"end":6630.202,"text":"我跟委員報告就是說今年的通膨會下來只會下來的幅度大小而已那我們的經濟成長可是你剛又講了你說全世界其實景氣是變好的我們台灣是會比較好"},{"start":6634.526,"end":6647.137,"text":"台灣會比較好?會受全世界的影響?我們受全世界的影響稍微會因為今年我們的出口會好因為出口好主要的就是說出口是整個的貿易量會增長"},{"start":6652.581,"end":6664.537,"text":"總裁你有看到這個歐美央行其實他們都已經在升息了那已經拉到近10年的一個高點了為什麼因為就是最大的挑戰就是在物價也高因為他那個時候現在大家的這個整個物價是在高於"},{"start":6670.044,"end":6697.726,"text":"就是這個疫情前面也造成了很多的一個民怨那如果我們的通膨問題如果再加上就是在未來的電費的調整然後就是說我們的一些那個看病的那個醫療費用的一個調整那央行應該是要更積極的從民眾的角度去看待就是通膨的問題那你有沒有就是考慮到就是貨幣的一個政策做調整"},{"start":6698.526,"end":6727.626,"text":"我跟委員報告我剛剛也回答其他委員的一個質詢我們說我們這一次禮監事會的時候我們會很嚴肅的來討論這個問題嚴肅的考慮就是說其實在貨幣的一個政策你也會做這樣的一個調整嗎這個就是說要嚴肅的這個也是一個工具之一也是一個政策之一所以我要請教你今年的通膨率你的目標設定在哪裡"},{"start":6728.566,"end":6754.352,"text":"我們的通膨目標如果說以目前我們1.89我們去年底的時候我們是用1.89但是就是說今年4月份會調漲這個電價那我們會把這個電價的這個作用它的一個影響我們會考慮進去所以這樣的話恐怕我們必須要上修我們的通膨率"},{"start":6755.272,"end":6783.453,"text":"對你會上修通膨率因為實際上就是說因為實質的負利率已經越來越嚴重了你也看到了這一個問題所以你一定就是說你要透過你的貨幣政策還是種種的一個甚至就是說從銀行裡頭去收錢回來的這一些政策去調整這個市場你必須要機動性的調整是不是這樣子呢委員講的很有道理有道理"},{"start":6785.764,"end":6804.755,"text":"那你的信用管制有用嗎?信用管制當然有用啊有用可是你的房價還是一直在漲啊但是委員我信用管制他所針對的不是房價不是房價不是我們專業銀行法裡面我們的經營目標裡面沒有房價的這個問題"},{"start":6807.777,"end":6818.246,"text":"我們呢我們你看看我們是金融穩定在這個全世界就是說你們的通膨裡頭你們一直沒有把房價納進來嗎這個都是一個大家最大的一個困境嗎房租有可是房價沒有啊房價沒有因為全球央行的利率政策呢他沒有是要針對房價的"},{"start":6830.176,"end":6852.347,"text":"總裁在這裡我也是要跟你提醒就是說全台灣80%的人其實都是有第一棟房子的可是你還是受限在20%這些手袋還是這些年輕人他們是沒有房子的那如果我們一直用這樣的一個保守的一個政策我們來看這個通膨"},{"start":6853.308,"end":6864.248,"text":"那我們一直用這樣子保守的一個政策來看整體的總體經濟那我們會造成很大很大的一個民厭你怎麼看待這個問題呢"},{"start":6866.452,"end":6883.529,"text":" 我想是這樣啦。你手上的工具最多啦。 我也不一定啦。所以這個才會就是說政府才會推出健全房屋方案那這個健全房屋方案裡面是好幾個部會"},{"start":6884.85,"end":6899.459,"text":"在在裡面中央銀行只是其中之一那中央銀行的職責呢我們就是避免你的你的房地產泡沫化而導致影響到你的這個金融的穩定這是中央銀行的一個職權職責"},{"start":6902.088,"end":6918.655,"text":"是我想這個在下一頁我們非常清楚的看到總裁你在講的就是說這個每一個人不管是財政部啦就是還是我們的央行其實對總體的一個經濟都有很大的一個這個主控力和影響力"},{"start":6919.935,"end":6930.851,"text":"可是房價沒有如一起的回穩反而是一直在上漲剛才在上一頁的一個資料裡頭我們就看到了新宜房屋他特別講到了Q3 Q4即使房價還是會持續的上漲那甚至就是說"},{"start":6936.218,"end":6963.25,"text":"你這個是2023年就是去年的你在6月宣布管制以後房子還是跟著漲所以顯然就是說光是央行的一個努力還是不夠就是說要整個聯動的一個進來那如果你收回流動性的一個譬如說我可以從這個銀行裡頭去做那個總量的一個管制我把貨幣做總量的一個管制"},{"start":6965.091,"end":6974.203,"text":"你會不會覺得說這樣子會有一個積極的這個……我想銀行的流動性基本上都被我們說了"},{"start":6976.445,"end":6977.966,"text":"多餘的流動性都被我們收了"},{"start":6997.065,"end":6997.746,"text":"王宏威委員"},{"start":7035.581,"end":7039.324,"text":"謝謝主席我請楊總裁請楊總裁總裁好總裁在你們的報告裡面特別對通膨率說預估今年的台灣通膨率渴望續回降到2%左右"},{"start":7061.922,"end":7084.416,"text":"總裁這個比例是不是估計的過於保守我們的這個左右這個就是說我們還是沒有把這個電價把它放進去沒有把電價放上去對不對好那麼事實上國發會那個拱竹尾已經對外宣稱我想這個是他們的模型跑出來的說如果電價上漲10%的話"},{"start":7087.978,"end":7106.834,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":7107.174,"end":7122.042,"text":"條百分之十因為現在傳出來是百分之十到百分之十五嘛大家看他能夠獲得多少的這個撥補那如果是10%到15%那我們所跑出來的模型CPI的受到的影響大概是幾個百分點"},{"start":7124.85,"end":7137.979,"text":"我們基本上就是說模型大概是大家都差不多我們的模型所以您同意我們有兩個第一個是直接影響一個是間接影響"},{"start":7139,"end":7157.468,"text":"那直接影響了我們的估計呢大概也會就是說落在0.12直接就是直接對直接是0.12但是報告委員就是說如果4月開始調漲的時候呢你的0.12也不見得就是說全部是在今年實現"},{"start":7158.969,"end":7174.922,"text":"對可能會延續到後面因為你就只有今年就只有8個月而已嘛是那後年就是4個月嘛所以呢也就0.12不見得是全部是在這個那如果間接的話我們大概是差不多也是在這0.24左右0.24對0.24那也一樣的就是說0.24那你這個就是說也是要8個月還有後面但是但是"},{"start":7188.939,"end":7198.704,"text":"這個只是說是你模型跑出來的一個數據但是他中間你還要考慮到就是說他的一個預期的心理"},{"start":7199.966,"end":7222.063,"text":"對,因為現在確實有一些預期心理會...如果預期心理出來甚至有烘台物價出來那麼對影響的層面會更大所以我們就必須要我們也必須要考慮這些所以總裁你所以你應該也會同意喔電價因為這次上漲的幅度比過去幾年都大而且甚至這次要漲到民生用電"},{"start":7223.004,"end":7236.987,"text":"那所以在今年有關於通貨膨脹的壓力事實上這個壓力是很大的你應該同意吧我除了就是說好委員我剛剛也有提到這一點就是說"},{"start":7238.479,"end":7263.375,"text":"今年雖然就是說比去年的二點四九可能我們說上修但是呢我們還是認為他是還是下來的但是呢可能下你你你你這樣用下降的其實並不代表說說我們現在呢大家的物價下降其實是去年的基期比較高嗎對不對對沒有錯這個基期也有一部分那但是呢我要跟委員報告的就是說因為我們的"},{"start":7266.297,"end":7293.315,"text":"2020年1.97過來是2.95那過來是2.49那今年又超過2%那這個我們必要小心這個會就是說如果說你的通膨都就是那麼長的時間的時候呢中央銀行對這個通膨預期的心理我們要非常注意因為等於說長時間都是在甚至在我們的通貨膨脹線2%"},{"start":7295.516,"end":7311.697,"text":"上上下下一直維持這個水準所以中央銀行應該會非常非常的在意因為穩定物價就是央行的天條所以總裁所以我們大概上半年看不到降息的可能"},{"start":7313.355,"end":7342.122,"text":"因為電價的因素不確定會不會引起預期心理會不會引起烘台物價所以在今年雖然在美國一直在期待Fed可能降息但是現在它可能降息的時間也會拖往後延所以在今年上半年總裁你認為我們有沒有降息的空間沒有我在想我們在6月以前沒有降息的空間那下半年呢"},{"start":7342.742,"end":7353.62,"text":"下半年呢所以就是說第一個我們要注意就是說叫通膨一起的心理我們必須要注意那下半年呢基本上呢因為我跟委員報告"},{"start":7355.922,"end":7379.889,"text":"美國他們是通膨率8%9%然後慢慢下來的那我們的基本上呢我們的通膨是稍微這樣然後再下來對不對吼我們的情況是跟他不一樣所以我們的貨幣政策跟他完全是不一樣的我們呢是慢慢的上去的所以慢慢上去的話呢也可能就是說不會就像他們就是說上去了以後下來的速度比較快"},{"start":7380.569,"end":7408.073,"text":"那中央銀行的把我們是逐步的我們是逐步的所以呢總裁我可不可以這樣講因為今年在國際情勢來說的話美國有降息的可能今年也可能看得到降息對不對那但是呢今年上半年臺灣面臨到電價上漲的壓力所以上半年央行現在沒有降息的打算但是按照國際情勢我們也沒有升息的可能"},{"start":7408.573,"end":7409.093,"text":"總裁另外跟您請教這幾天其實媒體有報導你們的那個"},{"start":7432.396,"end":7456.448,"text":"這個報告裡面有特別提到就是中央銀行現在呢在進行數位貨幣的一個研究CBDC對我所了解你們現在是委託台金院嗎是沒有包含對一些銀行的詢問嗎對銀行的一個調查對銀行應該是比較持負面跟反對的意見吧"},{"start":7457.529,"end":7487.109,"text":"是不是因為看起來因為如果發行這個數位貨幣可能銀行會怕自己的這個這個金融仲介的地位因此而被邊緣化是不是所以我現在所了解的是事實上因為你這邊講說你去對公眾啊產業界啊學界我跟你講公眾不懂的啦我都要花一點時間我叫人家幫我弄了一個報告出來我才比較了解數位貨幣你們的架構是什麼"},{"start":7487.449,"end":7489.631,"text":"我對虛擬貨幣一直變成詐騙洗錢我是很有意見但是它不是虛擬貨幣所以"},{"start":7507.591,"end":7525.186,"text":"我們現在在研究數位貨幣的一個發展您覺得有可能跟有些國家準備在2030年之前開始來上路發行數位貨幣我們的時間有可能可以趕得上2030年嗎"},{"start":7527.477,"end":7555.811,"text":"這個timetable我不敢跟委員保證了因為這個我們第一個階段譬如說我們這個我們在訪問我們還要在公聽會我們還要在論壇這些首發的時間可能也會蠻長的而且你看看像美國我剛剛也提到美國這個Fed的主席Power他最近也談到了美國要發展這個CPTC他要非常小心"},{"start":7556.411,"end":7583.692,"text":"而且呢他很重視的就是說他的隱私權就人民因為你用CBDC的時候呢那這個呢你的你使用貨幣的這個隱私權呢可能中央銀行都會知道銀行也可能會都會知道那這個呢他一直覺得就是說除非除非就是說上面所以如果發行CBDC的話"},{"start":7584.312,"end":7599.379,"text":"任何一個個人也好當然是大戶啦大戶或者是企業界他在使用數位貨幣跟銀行之間的話中央銀行都可以完全掌握所以這個就是說你的設計也就是說我們是朝這個方向設計嗎對不是不會"},{"start":7602.18,"end":7621.832,"text":"我所以這個設計就必須要知道就是說在某一個範圍之內的話大概就不曉得但是在某一個範圍的時候可能你這些資訊都要揭露都要讓上面知道還是要揭露還是不是所謂的揭露就是說要讓中央銀行知道"},{"start":7623.022,"end":7637.167,"text":"所以我覺得這個當你們對銀行界並沒有那麼贊成如果這樣講起來呢我覺得企業界或者是那種金融大戶我看他們也不會那麼贊成博鱷報告委員博鱷報告委員我跟您報告"},{"start":7642.489,"end":7671.822,"text":"E-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerceE-commerce"},{"start":7676.407,"end":7689.38,"text":"現場有吳麗華委員那因為趕時間我們是徵詢她讓她先質詢好不好然後等吳委員質詢完我們再休息5分鐘好謝謝請吳委員謝謝主席而有請央行總裁請央總裁"},{"start":7706.641,"end":7729.833,"text":"總裁早您看一下這個圖我們全台有三個鄉鎮是完全沒有任何的金融機構包括油局的農會的這個機構都沒有他是花蓮的萬榮台東的金峰以及屏東的獅子鄉那這三個鄉剛好都是原住民鄉鎮"},{"start":7731.334,"end":7757.182,"text":"那如果說我們要來看到底要走多遠才能夠找到ATM提款機貫均是花蓮的濁西鄉平均方圓510平方公里也就是說要拔山涉水才能夠去提領錢那特別這個問題凸顯就是政府在發錢的時候很多人就很頭痛為了領那個3000塊6000塊"},{"start":7760.323,"end":7786.572,"text":"可能還要去叫車叫個計程車一千多塊就為了領那幾千塊所以金融普及確實很重要那為什麼我這樣子問因為我在夜報上有看到中央銀行這邊正在推動發行一個所謂的數位貨幣CBDC報告裡面有指出已經完成批發型跟零售型的研究"},{"start":7787.392,"end":7809.474,"text":"而且央行呢已經去展示過這個數位貨幣有找到試驗場景試點那目前也正在辦理意見的調查想要請教一下總裁這個數位貨幣CPTC他的使用模式如果說拿金融卡信用卡悠遊卡電子支付他比較類似哪一種"},{"start":7811.519,"end":7824.323,"text":"我跟委員報告齁他是比較他跟他跟電子支付是比較像還有就是行動錢包你手機的那個行動錢包"},{"start":7826.084,"end":7826.545,"text":"對我們偏鄉預期會有幫助嗎?幫助是什麼?"},{"start":7844.22,"end":7862.731,"text":"我想就是說政府的這個依化包括電子支付依化的最主要的目的就是金融的就是financial inclusion金融的普及化"},{"start":7863.772,"end":7875.019,"text":"金融的普及化金融的普及化如果說電子資料都能夠到偏鄉去的話那他的金融的普及化呢就會更高那如果沒電沒網路呢沒電沒網路當然現在呢所以速發部現在是管NCC嗎"},{"start":7886.805,"end":7888.666,"text":"所以那些政府也要配套嗎?對"},{"start":7902.472,"end":7924.963,"text":"離縣支付離縣支付所以總裁我現在就是說因為你們正在做意見調查嗎所以我想知道說你們還會不會去找那些像偏鄉的地方去做測試試點那你評估的時候意見蒐集的時候你可不可以將協助偏鄉金融作為你們的重點評估項目之一會嗎"},{"start":7927.315,"end":7940.835,"text":"我想委員就是說因為我們從這個時點要到這個時點恐怕還有一段時間的一個路程但是呢委員有提出了這樣的一個建議"},{"start":7941.716,"end":7948.301,"text":"我希望在你們的意見收集裡面要把這個評估進來那未來評估告告也讓我們了解一下好不好所以我接下來想要請教一下總裁"},{"start":7963.893,"end":7982.566,"text":"過去呢像2020年總統就職你們有發行那個就職紀念幣嘛那我不太曉得說今年會發行嗎預計要發行多少這個我委員我請我們的發行局這個是他在組長的我請他來回答好嗎好謝謝謝謝委員那今年的總統副總統就職紀念幣"},{"start":7992.123,"end":8018.624,"text":"總統當選人已經同意實體的紀念幣的實施發行所以會跟這個一樣是實體紀念幣那預計發行量我們會採網路預購來決定他的發行數量那相片挑好了嗎現在都已經挑好了因為是金柱用金子鑄造大家是有反應說長得不像"},{"start":8021.191,"end":8038.164,"text":"對,你看那個左邊那個可能會有一個最近新聞人物很像那個男的也不像因為我知道金柱他其實可能有他技術的問題啦不容易去很像但是我們還是希望很像因為收藏的人希望很像"},{"start":8039.305,"end":8066.707,"text":"這樣可以嗎?那為什麼我這樣子問呢?因為像這個NFT他們有發行這個數位幣嘛那因為是數位就很像嘛那金鑄造就可能就容易失真嘛但是我只是做這樣的提醒那除了實體版有沒有可能來發行數位版的紀念幣因為剛才總裁在回應別的委員的時候都說也承認啦數位是一個趨勢嘛"},{"start":8070.858,"end":8074.68,"text":"一句裝洋法15條還有第18條還有我們的金銀幣紀念的這個發行辦法現在我們的國幣還有紀念性的卷跟幣並沒有"},{"start":8085.916,"end":8107.975,"text":"所以沒有打算發行數位的沒有 這個法源上面是還有問題既然是趨勢不要講法源就修嘛因為是趨勢為什麼我這樣講因為很多人關心就是能不能夠去結合一些線上遊戲像生存遊戲可以在AR VR呈現虛擬實境等等"},{"start":8110.297,"end":8130.542,"text":"因為他們覺得其實這個會是一個不錯的一個新的玩意那我想你們可以去考慮看看好不好這是很多人的期待啦那接下來我就是也想了解因為過去在1998到2011年中央銀行都有發售14組的原住民套幣"},{"start":8131.542,"end":8144.631,"text":"但是後來就沒有而且在這些年當中14組已經變16組甚至未來可能還會有一些平埔族群像希拉雅族所以我是想說能不能夠透過數位再版"},{"start":8146.341,"end":8172.239,"text":"無委員的這個建議我覺得非常好因為這個可以結合很多現在的可以來玩我們第一個我們實體版的我們可以一定也可以發行那至於就是說剛剛你建議的那個數位版之後那我就說數位版當然也不是說因為法沒有那我們呢也假如說這個是一個趨勢那也許以後"},{"start":8172.919,"end":8188.788,"text":"國外啊國際啊他對原住民很有興趣啊這些呢恐怕就是說都是要以後來來來設計要盡早修啦因為一直講法源就不對了因為是趨勢就要主動積極來修好謝謝總裁"},{"start":8193.19,"end":8218.707,"text":"我其實會關心這個也是因為說偏鄉的一個未來的發展趨勢2019年央行有一個新聞稿寫到說就是在規劃建置電子支付跨機構共用平台以利支付業者能陸續加入那我現在是知道全支付在3月11號有加入那接口支付預計在7月加入可是大家最關心"},{"start":8219.688,"end":8240.054,"text":"就是使用人口最多的這個LiPay不曉得什麼時候會加入我是不是委員我請我們財經公司的董事長來回答你的問題委員好跟委員報告LiPay在現在的市場上它是第三方支付現在的電子支付Quantico平台"},{"start":8240.854,"end":8260.643,"text":"我們今晚會合總我們的服務的範圍是金融機構跟電子機構是所以這兩個電子機構跟第三方機構的法源不一樣是是是又是法源那我是這樣子想了因為我也知道有看過你們說是第三方支付的關係可是我的看法是這樣"},{"start":8261.303,"end":8289.787,"text":"因為在技術層面上第三方支付的金流他還是要依賴電子支付跟銀行處理那我是覺得技術上你們研究一下應該是可行那另外一方面他的事法性法源法源那支付清算平台他也是依電子支付條例來執行可是跟他前端的QR Code他其實沒有法去規範所以我覺得這是兩碼子事那應該要去朝向簡便民流通還是要去客服可以嗎"},{"start":8290.367,"end":8305.228,"text":"是的好謝謝那除了簡便民方便流通我覺得央行也有促進金融穩定的任務我是在夜報上看到你們說本行選擇信用管制措施實施以來不動產貸款成長率下降確實從2020年起"},{"start":8307.751,"end":8308.011,"text":"央行"},{"start":8330.964,"end":8357.947,"text":"我就直接講因為時間的關係對啦我就說對對因為去年的第三季的房價增長是趨緩的可是你看第四季喔這個表格你可以看到爆衝欸爆衝例如像新竹他光是三個月內房子就漲15%那你應該很清楚知道我要問什麼因為財政部在2020年他的房地和一稅齁就是期限這個五年他把他給給放寬了"},{"start":8359.668,"end":8382.121,"text":"那另外2023年去年財政部8月又推出一個親安貸的2.0也把這個所謂的一個兩年到五年的他也把它放寬所以很多的廠商他就找到一個促銷的門道策略那我是希望說央行因為你有對總體金融穩定的一個責任嘛那是不是可以去做一個評估報告好謝謝總裁謝謝主席"},{"start":8389.255,"end":8389.661,"text":"休息5分鐘"},{"start":8814.983,"end":8815.103,"text":"請楊總裁請楊總裁"},{"start":8840.633,"end":8856.524,"text":"總裁好我想大家都非常關心台灣的物價那你們在去年年底是預計大概是1.89那也下修但是2月份我們剛剛公布的主計處公布的物價還是高達3.08"},{"start":8858.626,"end":8872.807,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":8873.61,"end":8888.583,"text":"所以看起來應該會比你們原來的預期再高可能會高因為接下去4月份電價要調漲而且也看到很多的醫療費用關號費的調漲這些狀況對於超過所謂的通膨脊結腺2%可能是一個很幾乎是應該會超過吧你認為會不會超過2%"},{"start":8897.351,"end":8909.604,"text":"如果說照直覺在看的話來那個的話應該會喔應該會所以總裁你曾經表示過如果明年的通膨率在2%以下還可以接受但是如果就像剛剛講的超過2%"},{"start":8912.093,"end":8934.296,"text":"那接下去央行會有什麼樣的貨幣政策所以我剛剛也在講就是說我們會很嚴肅的來討論這個議題看起來是不太可能低於2%了所以現在電價調漲接下去要收碳費加上醫療費用的增加連主計長都說通膨壓力很大所以"},{"start":8935.256,"end":8957.911,"text":"接下來的禮堅式會議有沒有可能在討論臺灣的寬鬆貨幣政策升息的可能性我跟委員報告就是說貨幣政策一般AA有在講就是說因為他是下來的嘛下來他是中長期啦中長期要達到2%以下所以你要用利率來做調控嘛"},{"start":8958.611,"end":8985.529,"text":"中央銀行現在我剛剛也有在強調就是說中央銀行很重視的就是說是通膨預期的心理沒錯所以這也是我們很擔心說實際上民眾的感受其實就才是最真實的所以重點在於我想問總裁就是怎麼樣的物價條件會有怎麼樣的貨幣政策這才是一個原則性的問題我們大家可以去預期接下去的物價狀況我們會碰到什麼樣的未來"},{"start":8988.892,"end":8997.521,"text":"你的政策可能的方向?我還是在講就是說我們會很謹慎的我們還是很謹慎的會討論這個議題在你們去年第4屆的李建樹會議的裡面我們看到了"},{"start":9007.827,"end":9036.122,"text":"央行附了國內外的對於臺灣CPI的預測非常有趣喔對於今年的CPI國內機構認為不會高於百分之二國外機構都認為會高於百分之二我想問一下總裁是國內機構跟國外機構誰比較不接地氣還是我們國內機構都是報喜不報憂也不是這麼啦因為國外的很明顯的差很大國內跟國外差很多有的是啦"},{"start":9036.943,"end":9051.6,"text":"幾乎國外全部都超過百分之二可是我們自己可以報說我們只有一點多不過報委員就是說應該按照道理來講的話就是說國內的機構是比較瞭解國內的情況"},{"start":9052.481,"end":9068.2,"text":"但是如果照你這樣說的話就不會發生我們剛剛講的明年剛剛講可能接下去會超過百分之二所以國外可能比你還要準所以呢也就是說你要看的就是說每一個機構呢在什麼時點做的預測"},{"start":9070.623,"end":9080.233,"text":"而且你看就舉中央銀行的例子來講我們在去年的12月底的禮監事我們做了預測但是在3月的時候我們還是會我沒有什麼意見我只是認為說可能我們太過於保守這件事情也需要去參考國外的機構的考慮這個很難說啦接下來就是"},{"start":9092.546,"end":9120.408,"text":"我們特別注意的就是我特別在乎的是居住正義所以房租的指數租金指數在臺灣居住類的CPI裡面已經連續上漲了31個月超過兩年半而且已經創了歷史記錄也就是說我們居住正義的實踐第一個在央行的立場也應該是讓房市還漲作為第一個目標但是我想問總裁如果按照這個租金指數的上升狀況"},{"start":9121.949,"end":9130.45,"text":"但沒有還漲而且持續上漲幅度越來越大我們的居住正義的政策有沒有發揮效果"},{"start":9132.064,"end":9139.89,"text":"租金是房價的落後支票租金是房價的落後支票我們現在的政策工具有沒有辦法讓租金緩漲"},{"start":9155.615,"end":9176.951,"text":"至少不要長得那麼大而且你有很多的工具你一直都在用但是看起來效果沒有很好尤其是你說過不要因為打房而升息但是CPI的壓力變大了接下去信用管制也做了很久了可是房市一樣沒有趨緩的現象"},{"start":9178.772,"end":9205.884,"text":"我跟委員報告中央銀行的目標沒有房價的這個目標如果說房價上漲但是呢他的金融穩定依然是穩定的時候呢中央銀行還是謹慎的我同意但是我的意思是說央行可能要成為一個對於我們現在你做了很多管制措施但是我們又通過了平均集權條例希望能夠平易房價對"},{"start":9207.125,"end":9213.084,"text":"然後後來政府為了要選舉又貼出了新清安貸款增加額度延長年限"},{"start":9214.875,"end":9239.898,"text":"有媒體報導這就是後來本來平均地權條例的效果還沒出來打房的效果還沒出來反手又提出了新清安貸款反而撐住了房價撐住了樓地板所以同時間提出效果相反的房市政策對於您不斷的在做管制措施但是我們政府推出的矛盾的政策總裁你有什麼看法"},{"start":9241.258,"end":9262.425,"text":"基本上我也是一直希望就是說你也是覺得很無奈就是你想管他然後他們又在那邊撐著我也是一直希望就是說健全房屋方案這個是整個的行政單位健全房屋不會只有一個單位要大家一起來但是不能你再打房他在那邊撐房價"},{"start":9264.106,"end":9282.319,"text":"我說我基本上我也非常同意就是說政策是要一致性政策不能互相矛盾政策不能自己打自己對啦當然啦但是呢有時候我說總裁你要大聲的說出來政策不能自己打自己我這邊在打你不能左手打右手啊"},{"start":9282.859,"end":9285.801,"text":"我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我"},{"start":9307.091,"end":9332.98,"text":"非常非常不知道要投資什麼所以最近可以看到我們的儲蓄本來是3兆左右目前到2024的預測值已經達到3.84兆也就是說民眾手上很多錢很多現金不知道要買什麼所以最近很夯的就是高股息的ETF還有美債的ETF可以賣到上千億然後現在的問題就是有這種說法當然低利率政策超過成長區間的M2"},{"start":9334.821,"end":9353.49,"text":"﹗"},{"start":9353.63,"end":9376.443,"text":"民眾有錢想投資買不到高額利率的就去衝風險然後讓這些所謂的投資詐騙的集團開始用投資詐騙的方式來欺騙民眾這兩件事情總裁我們有什麼樣的解方或者是我們有什麼方式來引導央行我相信也是金融教育推動小組的一員金融素養還有對於國人的"},{"start":9379.084,"end":9394.893,"text":"財經的觀念這些事情也有一個主導的作用總裁可以做些什麼事情讓民眾更瞭解投資更能夠把他的錢用在最有用的地方而不至於被詐騙或去買了很多他可能不需要的東西"},{"start":9396.033,"end":9423.94,"text":"我想就是說投資人每一個投資人每一個投資人他有他的投資的一個策略那你覺得這個ETF的狀況正常嗎所以這個才會就是說金管會他目前他也覺得就是說有一點過熱所以他也要嘗試的要讓這種熱度能夠降下來因為就是我們的錢不知道要去哪裡所以我們的股票兩萬點然後房子漲不停"},{"start":9424.66,"end":9443.886,"text":"同樣的會去買這些東西就表示大家錢沒有做投資都是做這種不會去投資公司投資工廠而是投資到這些商品上面所以總裁我是說如果我們有低利我們應該要有相對的配套提供更好的投資標的給人民有做選擇好嗎好謝謝委員"},{"start":9452.154,"end":9453.475,"text":"這麼多年來我們中央銀行"},{"start":9478.868,"end":9502.702,"text":"不管在你或者前任總裁領導下其實坦白講對於我們整個國家金融的穩定對於匯率利率這一些的掌控其實社會給你們的評價都很高謝謝委員可是我今天提到的是兩個我覺得也是當務之急我希望兩個問題那麼請你回答後就是說"},{"start":9505.606,"end":9530.504,"text":"先前為了抑制房市的過度飆漲我們央行已經採取選擇性信用軟體已經採取了五波這五波下去以後我們看到房市不但繼續熱絡而且價格直直上揚那等於全國不僅"},{"start":9531.545,"end":9556.493,"text":"但黃區那全國22縣市都一起上漲所以我要問你的就是說那前5波選擇性信用管制成效不大之下是不是我們應該再祭出第6波的針對房市這個選擇性的信用管制你有沒有這個打算"},{"start":9558.114,"end":9585.547,"text":"我跟委員報告就是說第一個我們的選擇性信用管制我們每次的理監事會都會討論滾動式的檢討這是第一點第二點呢也就是說我們的健全房屋方案裡面就是說我們的選擇性信用管制的主要的目的也不是在於就是說要抑制房價因為我們的台灣的房價說實在的它也有它上漲也有它的道理第一個就是說"},{"start":9587.011,"end":9607.517,"text":"中美貿易衝突了以後呢台商回來投資這些我們都知道不只我們立法院知道全民也都知道啦你不能說全民的期待下你現在突然說沒有啦我先前選擇性信用管制不是要打房價"},{"start":9608.797,"end":9636.138,"text":"我是直接挑明跟你說其實就是打房價我認為這是對的這是全民的期待合理的管制房價他們房價不合理的飆升不是嗎那當然現在呢就好我就直接回答委員的我們對選擇新型管制的措施呢我們一直都是會滾動式的煎刀可以必要的時候呢我們也不是說我們就到這裡為止而已"},{"start":9636.989,"end":9661.67,"text":"所以我請問你嘛那短期內你有沒有打算第6波的選擇性信用管制我這個就是說理監事會會討論理監事會討論那什麼時候理監事會我們3月份的時候是理監事的討論那就是這個月囉好我靜待你們討論的結果但是你既然採用選擇性信用管制我覺得我們國內這38家銀行"},{"start":9665.953,"end":9684.137,"text":"視乎有聽沒聽沒當一回事所以啊這個成效不章那你們照說央行訂了這個政策我們全體銀行應該要跟進的那調皮搗蛋不跟進的那就要處罰他不是嗎結果這麼多年來從108年109到111年總共處罰三件"},{"start":9691.558,"end":9718.634,"text":"這三家當初比較調皮搗蛋台積銀和庫國泰市華好了也是一樣四個字高舉輕放可以喔最高罰款可以罰到兩千萬的結果你們都把他罰一個最低罰一百萬那難怪調皮搗蛋不配合不聽中央銀行指示的都"},{"start":9719.682,"end":9729.987,"text":"只被罰一百萬了那其他更多沒查到沒配合大家都敢這麼做嘛了不起他就準備了繳交一百萬的"},{"start":9732.148,"end":9758.641,"text":"這個入場券再來就隨他們做啦不是嗎所以我認為銀行指示的選擇性信用管制對38家銀行那些裡面那些除了模範生以外對多數這些調皮搗蛋的銀行而言我認為8個字形容他們啦他們就是自由發揮我行我素"},{"start":9760.66,"end":9769.755,"text":"好,他們做他們的就對了阿中央銀行那中央銀行的你說你的就對了所以我覺得這是非常可惡的事情也就是說"},{"start":9771.158,"end":9799.736,"text":"我認為好好檢討前五波哪幾家沒配合的還是要叉叉還是要抓出來罰不能只罰一百萬啊一百萬懶散了又懶散了連最高的罰兩千萬他就沒得聽再說更何況說你只罰一百萬好不好這個理事會以後三月的這個理事會以後我希望有結論你看有沒有三月底四月初馬上向我們財委會做一個"},{"start":9801.097,"end":9822.767,"text":"說明好不好我我我我我們會有一個檢討報告給委員好不好可以我們一個檢討報告給委員另外另外第二個問題就是說針對其實我們中央銀行法第29條不止是對房屋的部分其實我們對於這個耐久消費品"},{"start":9824.468,"end":9844.375,"text":"這個部分那麼我們事實上這一部分的貸款我們也可以管那我講這一部分是什麼呢就是說關於這個現在對年輕人造成一些悲歌的啦就是VNPL所謂齁啊這個先買後付就是"},{"start":9845.925,"end":9848.088,"text":"銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀"},{"start":9869.055,"end":9896.211,"text":"這個中租敵核他借了2346億核亂972億那家裕榮汽車成立的裕榮阿他不公開他不公開那我們也問阿我們請金管會說你要查你要問金管會竟然自廢武功不但不管他們連金額要他報"},{"start":9897.577,"end":9920.622,"text":"那也不報結果愈容繼續再做那你想想喔那個楊總裁你看這樣對嗎銀行你如果要借消費性貸款那你有你就直接你就借給消費者嗎我們信賴銀行的體系他有一個徵信體制而且銀行知道說這些"},{"start":9923.996,"end":9949.573,"text":"存款去放款這些存款來自2300萬我們的納稅人他們的存款那些存款應該絕大多數用在生產事業幫助民眾買土地蓋廠房買機械設備買原料做桌展機生產性的嘛或者商業性的結果消費性的貸款應該受到限縮"},{"start":9950.814,"end":9969.549,"text":"但是突然跑出這幾家租賃公司好啦他大筆的跟我們的銀行體系借借低利的然後他用高利貸的方式借給消費者尤其是年輕朋友們出入社會者那"},{"start":9971.069,"end":9984.316,"text":"我覺得這不只是錯誤這是非常的不道德非常的不道德然後他們向銀行借錢當這些租賃公司我不客氣的講這叫做有牌的地下錢莊不是嗎有牌的地下錢莊就因為他掛個牌我租賃公司"},{"start":9997.386,"end":10012.27,"text":"然後他就可以把社會大眾的資金從銀行那邊大筆的轉過來去幹地下錢莊的事情你知道他維維金多少嗎你知道他利息多高嗎你知道他們討帳怎麼討的嗎表面上叫兩個穿西裝的過來後面跟著兩個嚼檳榔的討債公司"},{"start":10022.349,"end":10044.139,"text":"那青年朋友們出入社會的你看給他們這麼大的誘惑買個80萬的車出定公司借你100萬你車子不但不用出錢還有20萬可以當零用金那年輕朋友們有的沒有考慮那麼多的結果父母親作罷"},{"start":10045.359,"end":10070.009,"text":"租賃公司也不怕討不到啦然後年輕朋友還有三十幾年工作餘命啊他覺得這個都一定討得到的就對就用這種方式變相的吸血這是殘害我們社會尤其是殘害我們國家未來的希望青年人我覺得殘害他們的一個"},{"start":10071.912,"end":10100.104,"text":"非常可惡的一個方式手段所以我認為那個軍管會我另外會找他軍管會我另外會找他算這筆賬軍管會不但自廢武功而且動不動拿那個什麼個資法啦我們大家個資被賣的差不多啦然後他才說這個個資法我們立委要查他說個資法不能給你總統什麼都不能給你這個我另外找他算賬"},{"start":10101.867,"end":10120.067,"text":"當事央行你根據銀行法你事實上你就可以針對這個部分銀行法第29條很清楚不只是對辦理構建房屋你另外構置耐久消費品的貸款你們也可以去管"},{"start":10121.715,"end":10122.235,"text":"總裁金龍率所屬單位主管"},{"start":10139.936,"end":10151.435,"text":"我對你跟中央銀行寄予厚望既然法令有啦你有中央銀行法第29條你可以處置啊這件事情"},{"start":10152.435,"end":10172.443,"text":"你針對這些調皮搗蛋的銀行把大量的錢借給這三家租賃公司讓他們去剝削去吸血青年朋友們這個就是錯誤那樣子的行為這三家租賃公司叫做有牌的地下錢莊"},{"start":10174.685,"end":10184.302,"text":"這些貸款給他的銀行當了最大的幫兇這些貸款給他的銀行對不起我們全體的存款人是不是這樣"},{"start":10186.655,"end":10206.028,"text":"委員的意見我們會來檢討我希望這個會議下一次會議我們碰面的時候你可以針對這一個部分你有下去管制他們這些銀行警告他們這些銀行這些你做出一些有處理的這個情況跟我們做一些說明好不好好謝謝"},{"start":10214.887,"end":10224.931,"text":"王偉那個金管會他有講說那個剛剛講那個不歸他們管金管會金管會有說啦推需要的話我再來安排"},{"start":10243.43,"end":10247.235,"text":"接著請李坤澄議員質詢謝謝主席那請我們楊總裁請楊總裁"},{"start":10265.023,"end":10277.94,"text":"總裁好總裁這個早上也辛苦了這個我先請教一下我看到你早上的質詢這個大家問的問題也都很多元那這個我們都知道說總裁講話這個"},{"start":10280.222,"end":10305.679,"text":"通常具有一錘定音的效果謝謝委員因為早上我有看到有其他委員在關心最近很夯的ETF然後總裁用了一個非常生動的比喻這個就會像羊群一樣跳下去然後說怎麼上來就會怎麼樣下去那我相信總裁的這一番談話可能會對ETF具有降溫的效果我是希望啦"},{"start":10309.853,"end":10336.158,"text":"我是希望是這樣不過我跟委員報告就是說金管會也了解也關注到這個議題所以他們也是希望就採一些的降溫的措施所以總裁認為說這個最近這幾檔很夯的這個ETF這個太熱了對於這個台灣的這個這個比如說經濟發展不好勒還是說對哪裡不好勒那所以你希望它具有這個降溫的這個效果"},{"start":10337.782,"end":10352.551,"text":"最主要的這個我們應該就是說啦是應該是說是投資人一窩蜂的我看媒體也就是在表達在描述說因為很多對ETF他也都不懂的啊但是因為看到大家都是一直在去買的"},{"start":10353.231,"end":10376.336,"text":"我就打電話打到那個什麼那個那個金融機構呢就接的接的就說完所以很顯然的這是一窩蜂的很多都是一窩蜂就像前面頭一樣跳下去的後面不知道就跟著跳下去的意思嗎那就是說他也不曉得ETF是不是他只是說現在呢我就一直在賬賬賬那現在都大家人的心裡就是說那追賬"},{"start":10377.296,"end":10377.556,"text":"現在買ETF太熱"},{"start":10399.615,"end":10425.93,"text":"希望說投資人在投資之前先要先理性先選擇一下應該是這個意思吧是沒有錯也就是說投資人我想最基本的啦我想我也不是非常非常很高竿的那個投資人不是有一個基本的原則就是說你的上車跟下車的10點你必須要你必須要了解不是一窩蜂的人家上車你也跟著上車"},{"start":10427.131,"end":10427.651,"text":"總裁是看好今年台灣的經濟成長"},{"start":10447.903,"end":10462.199,"text":"我還是基本上會比去年好比去年好信心從哪裡來的這主要就是說我們的出口有復甦我們出口你看喔從10月份10月份910月份111212"},{"start":10464.882,"end":10477.756,"text":"都都是成長的這個很顯然的就那當然我們的出口成長呢很大一部分呢也是跟AI有關係啦跟AI有關係但是其他的慢慢的"},{"start":10479.332,"end":10505.228,"text":"在五六月份以後的普遍的應該也會隨著上升所以也就是說我們的出口好我們的投資就會好我們出口好投資好那另外呢我們的消費的這個部分我們消費的部分去年去年我們經濟成長說實在的主要都靠消費那消費呢就是剛好就是我們解封了以後或那個什麼"},{"start":10505.928,"end":10506.488,"text":"總裁認為經濟成長好,因為我們出口會增加。內需也會增加。"},{"start":10529.657,"end":10543.384,"text":"對,對,沒有錯那這個因為我昨天有問主界長主界長說大概如果把這個電價這個成長的這個部分把它計算進去的話大概是2%那2%這個主界長他認為說溫和哇他講了好幾次溫和那總裁勒"},{"start":10547.186,"end":10561.005,"text":"總裁開發怎麼樣?主席長他講的也沒有錯不過我們是稍微稍微就比較保守一點因為我們原先的我們在12月的時候的預測就是說1.89"},{"start":10563.829,"end":10583.46,"text":"那1089如果說剛看到就是說我們的這個電價要上漲的這個方案我們如果說把它計算進去還有考慮到其他的那這個也要漲那個也要漲那還有考慮到就是說通膨逸期的心理的話也許我們會超過2%"},{"start":10584.901,"end":10586.622,"text":"但是這個就是說我們下個禮拜四我們的禮監事會會來很謹慎的來討論這個議題那這個相信總裁也會相當關心美國的這個聯準會他們會不會降息"},{"start":10604.168,"end":10623.23,"text":"這個呢也就是說市場目前都一直覺得美國是在6月以後會降息會降息但是呢你認為他們會降息的原因在哪裡?他們通膨有控制住了嗎?他們這個經濟成長達到預期了嗎?這是市場的預期不過呢那總裁的看法勒?"},{"start":10623.87,"end":10638.884,"text":"我們要相信總裁的看法費德還是很謹慎因為中央銀行畢竟對中央銀行的想法會比較接近我們對中央銀行在了解中央銀行的一個想法會比較接近一點我們認為費德還是非常謹慎的"},{"start":10644.209,"end":10663.04,"text":"跟你一樣的謹慎跟你一樣的謹慎一樣的謹慎所以6月之後會降息嗎因為美國他是說如果那他還是有條件的如果說他一期就是說他的通膨有到下降到2%左右"},{"start":10664.761,"end":10679.295,"text":"哦有下降來啊然後呢他的經濟呢也能夠有有有有也能夠就說哎是這也是是有韌性的啊但是通膨有下來嗯那他也是很希望因為市場都認為有75%的會軟著陸嗯"},{"start":10682.017,"end":10701.565,"text":"那這樣的話呢他就認為這個就符合他的標準但是什麼時候會符合這個標準Fed他也不敢說大家抓準6月之前不會改變但6月之後有可能那台灣呢因為我們的這個利率通常會跟著美國走吧"},{"start":10703.426,"end":10724.128,"text":"也不一定啦因為我今天有看到這個早上這個其他委員有問就是說美國在6月之後有可能降息但是台灣不一定有可能會升息嗎我們基本上我們跟美國不太一樣的地方就是說美國是通膨的很高然後然後呢他就提高利率"},{"start":10724.988,"end":10743.637,"text":"對就極速的提高利率那我們通膨不會像他那麼高所以我們提高的利率都是很溫和漸進的那你的溫和漸進上因為他是上面是調降下來的所以呢他就是有調降的空間那中央銀行呢我們要看我們的通膨的情況"},{"start":10744.488,"end":10758.893,"text":"那我那時候說如果通膨大概就是2%現在大概是主流的看法啦主界長大概還有國會主委對國發會主委他們大概都是認為是2%啦那如果在2%左右的情況之下對那在這個條件的情況之下那總裁方便講嗎"},{"start":10760.733,"end":10785.325,"text":"我第一個我會說我們會很謹慎第二個呢我們除了就是說電價的這個電價的這個的調升以外會對CPI的影響以外我們還要注意的就是說是通膨預期的心理因為如果說大家都在講通膨通膨他就會自我實現喔"},{"start":10786.565,"end":10809.334,"text":"所以就是說大家不要有這個預期的心理就是說啊會通膨然後就那結果這個預期的心理就真的發生了這當然這也是有可能那只是說因為總裁之前有提到說對於臺灣的經濟成長是看好的那我只是想說如果這個利率這個不降反升的話不曉得會不會對於經濟造成成長會造成影響"},{"start":10810.634,"end":10831.182,"text":"呃基本上呢我說我們台灣的經濟齁他他受到external受到外部的影響比較大嗯我們本身的這個影響比較少嗯哦都外面外面的就是說你的出口好的話呢基本上呢我們就跟課程我剛剛所說我們的出口好"},{"start":10832.442,"end":10846.119,"text":"我們出口好我們的投資就會好那我們的消費水準也會維持一定的水準那在這種情況那政府的支出呢也有成長那在這種情況之下好像就是說你經濟是會往上推的"},{"start":10849.462,"end":10874.071,"text":"其實時間不多我還有一題想要問的就是這個央行有打算要發行那個數位貨幣我們是還是在研議當中中國的這個人民銀行他們是不是有發行?他們事典他們是現在講說是事典事典也不是正式發行他只是事典而已但是沒有正式發行"},{"start":10875.311,"end":10895.943,"text":"就是說我是認為啦就是說數位貨幣當然有它的這個流通性跟它的這個方便性但是也有它的一個高度的管制性在所以這部分的話我認為這個總裁在發行這個數位貨幣的時候可能也要注意到這一點好我們會我們會說的沒有錯我們會很小心好謝謝總裁謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":10903.837,"end":10906.098,"text":"接著請陳玉珍陳委員質詢首先我們請總裁請楊總裁"},{"start":10923.498,"end":10944.944,"text":"總裁你好我們立法院在上個會期曾經通過臨時提案要求央行會同金管會提交打造外幣現鈔兌換新台幣現鈔及儲值卡復合性設備之可行性的書面報告現在外籍旅客到我們台灣來"},{"start":10947.348,"end":10973.934,"text":"對換新台幣的管道有幾種第一個就是清零銀行郵局信用合作社和榮譽會信用部對換新台幣第二個就是用銀行的提款機外幣對換機現在全國機場港口總共有30台對換機接著到一些收兌處比如說旅館、百貨公司、博物館這些景點近10年大概有200多家"},{"start":10975.714,"end":10996.65,"text":"我們來看金門金門也是國門小三通往來的人也很多很密切現在在金門唯有人民幣兌換台幣的提款機是永豐銀行我們的水投商港有兩家金融機構一個是信和社一個是土銀林貴兌換的服務是"},{"start":10999.372,"end":11018.484,"text":"一到五的早上九點到下午三點半禮拜六禮拜天一例一休所以沒有提供那還有一個我們有個購物中心金湖廣場金湖飯店都有那這個我們最近相信有在反映這個當然因為還有週休都沒有辦法換那如果在水頭這個提供這個香港提供這個外幣的這個兌換金這個部分讓我們這個"},{"start":11023.092,"end":11023.332,"text":"總裁你怎麼看"},{"start":11044.078,"end":11047.564,"text":"我簡單的就是說當然就是說設置這個兌換機這個也是商業行為"},{"start":11058.073,"end":11075.386,"text":"但是呢就是說委員執行的也沒有錯啦就是說這個是說好像如果說不普遍人民不方便那這個呢就是說有違反這個普惠金融的一個目的"},{"start":11078.148,"end":11093.701,"text":"是的 我也滿贊同我也支持我們這個到時候請我們這邊當然跟那個我們我想我們這個我們來我們來因為這個是金管會的資訊我知道我知道但是因為這之前你們跟金管會聯合提出相關的這個這個外幣現鈔兌換新台幣現鈔來複合式設備的這個提出"},{"start":11100.507,"end":11100.527,"text":"第2個問題"},{"start":11118.903,"end":11134.697,"text":"今天這個這幾天的媒體有報導這個為了因應未來這個貨幣支付的這個新形式剛我看很多委員有問就是評估要導入這個央行數位貨幣CPTC的可能性那從去年11月開始委外進行大概4月結案5月會這個公布這個結果這個你們要做這個"},{"start":11139.381,"end":11142.003,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":11159.453,"end":11171.502,"text":"這個根據國際貨幣基金的MF的報告齁這個全球現在已經有超過100家在研究這個齁中央銀行的數位貨幣喔那裡面也在研究嘛齁那現在是因為虛擬貨幣的詐騙"},{"start":11174.226,"end":11178.449,"text":"今天5月調查完成後,你預計發行期程大概要多久?"},{"start":11198.484,"end":11201.668,"text":"我們還是有三個階段第一個階段就是說我們收集了這個資料來我們看到了結果然後我們會論壇我們會舉辦公聽會"},{"start":11215.005,"end":11233.674,"text":"因為要廣泛的讓大家知道這件事情而且專家學者的意見是什麼我們也會納入考量這個是第一個一個一個工程那另外一個呢我們對現在目前我們這個平台他的一個技術是不是有再精進的一個空間嗯"},{"start":11235.636,"end":11249.386,"text":"還有我們也跟國外的那個什麼沙盒跟那個BIS啦跟其他的SWIFT啦共同來看他Cross border就是說你跨境的話要怎麼來設計這個都是還是在進行當中那這個時間不會很短這個可能要很長的時間"},{"start":11256.271,"end":11256.591,"text":"我們現在的進度不會輸其他國家"},{"start":11271.974,"end":11296.488,"text":"所以呢所以所以就是說你講了很多以後你沒有告訴我一個答案我剛剛也講了就是說一個time table到目前我們還都沒有你也沒有理定一個政策沒有說大概比如說收集資料要3個月什麼東西要專家協議研討在3個月所以你有沒有打算把這個當做一件事情去做"},{"start":11297.108,"end":11309.045,"text":"有嗎?當然有當然有嗎?那所以如果有要做像我們這一個目標嘛比如說大概半年內完成三個月內完成一個月一年內完成沒有這樣的這個對這個到目前為止我們還不會那這樣子"},{"start":11315.473,"end":11338.089,"text":"這個中央銀行做這個政策決定未免太過輕鬆吧不會所以我剛剛我才會你剛剛有講好幾個事情嘛我剛剛還有引用到那個什麼power就是美國央行的那個power就是他的主席他所說的話他發展CBDC他要非常非常謹慎他也沒有時間表"},{"start":11338.669,"end":11343.047,"text":"那不只會說所以其實也你的意思如果在我的聽起來就是說"},{"start":11344.349,"end":11373.689,"text":"你是要往做的方向去做嗎還是你要不要做都還沒有確定而只是說我們會往我們可能會做還在研議階段我們還是往前走但是什麼時候做是一回事你是有打算做還是沒有打算做有打算做才有一個說啊多久做什麼連要打算做都還沒有決定但是就是說我們是有這個決心要往前走往前走是做還是不做勒"},{"start":11374.869,"end":11375.029,"text":"一件事我剛剛有一個"},{"start":11402.534,"end":11405.117,"text":"你們不是應該帶領各個銀行做先進的一些我剛剛有一個委員提到NEID的事情"},{"start":11414.68,"end":11441.546,"text":"我剛有聽到,他有問,我有聽到所以我才在問你啊我說政府呢也是要往前推的嘛政府要往前推,政府是要往做的方向推嘛但是呢到時候呢他就說是要往做的方向推是嗎還是不一定不,慢慢,我不是說不一定你往前推但是呢你有一個最大的前提就是說要讓這些的大家都能夠了解"},{"start":11442.706,"end":11471.284,"text":"這個是不是會涉及到很大的問題那那個是涉及宣導那宣導是後面的事情你的政策決定應該是有一個方向吧比如說我們對0到6歲國家養要不要做啊這個是先有一個政策決定然後接著說做如果做的是分期是哪幾年做什麼事情哪幾年做什麼事情因為央行是一個相當重要的單位吧如果你自己這個單位都沒有想要隱隱前進你下面這麼多銀行這個怎麼也是跟著政策走的啊"},{"start":11471.804,"end":11490.135,"text":"如果鼓勵電子支付鼓勵這種數位貨幣所以我想了解是您的政策方向或者說你們還是在我的政策方向我還是往前走啊我知道往前走你是要往左邊走往右邊走往南邊走往北邊走啊我跟委員報告啦最少最少你的研究的階段都要3年以上"},{"start":11491.035,"end":11512.689,"text":"對啦你給一個時間嘛所以說這個數位貨幣要不要推呢至少要先研究三年嘛你的意思說還是要研究研究三年以後才能決定這個往哪邊走可能做或是不做嘛這樣講可以嗎所以說非常的慢嘛數位時代什麼事情研究三年不就是非常的慢嗎"},{"start":11513.61,"end":11513.83,"text":"不過報告．"},{"start":11529.912,"end":11551.739,"text":"你所使用的技術呢可能就是說技術是一回事這個中華民國的技術應該是相當好我會對我們國家這個有信心我的意思是說政策方向其實才是重點如果照這個央行的總裁您的這個回答方法那個科技日新月異但是你一個政策需要研究三年我覺得這個應該在好的"},{"start":11553.419,"end":11554.74,"text":"我們的速度都比其他國家還快"},{"start":11583.21,"end":11597.921,"text":"所以你的意思是其他國家研究超過3年喔?有的,都超過了其他國家研究多久,請你給我一份資料哪些國家研究超過3年世界先進國家從開始研究多久,請你給我一份資料,好嗎?好,謝謝你現在質詢請顏寬恆,顏委員"},{"start":11617.442,"end":11623.345,"text":"主席各位列席委員主席我想請央行我們的楊總裁楊總裁楊總裁早總裁早總裁我想請教賴總統在擔任行政院長的時候推動了數位身份證那當時號稱數位身份證就是一把萬能的鑰匙那"},{"start":11645.217,"end":11660.366,"text":"集結了自然人憑證、駕照、健保卡、國民年金、勞保、育兒津貼、交通監理、車籍資料、稅務通關、護照、簽證、公投連署、申請契約"},{"start":11661.907,"end":11678.824,"text":"這些東西就像一卡萬能的這樣子的形容但是後面衍生出來的這個資安的問題在當時包括中研院的學者還有大眾連署反對所以在行政院110年2021年由當時的蘇貞昌院長"},{"start":11685.581,"end":11699.196,"text":"來做出一個暫緩換發作業做出一個這樣的決定所以委員說的沒有錯而且他說必須要等到制定專法跟取得社會共識才可以再辦理那我想要請教就是說當時為什麼在"},{"start":11701.138,"end":11723.174,"text":"那麼重大的一個科技政策然後呢要來在實行之前沒有先取得社會共識也沒有做有效的安全的規劃跟資安的一個資訊的評估當時那可不可以請總裁您來做個說明那報告委員至於就是說"},{"start":11725.587,"end":11734.803,"text":"委員在講的就是說前面這一段,基本上我坦白的跟委員報告這一段我們不曉得"},{"start":11735.649,"end":11763.701,"text":"那我們中央銀行呢我們的角色是什麼呢我們是就是說剛好就是說這個是內政部要推的嘛當然內政部推推推到一半的時候呢他們覺得就是說他本來是找那個私人的廠商但是呢他們後來才發現就是說可能他們做不下去要中央銀行來做所以呢中央銀行就承接了這個工作那個總裁好"},{"start":11764.821,"end":11778.693,"text":"我來講啦齁當時人力政部徐國勇部長強調說這個晶片都是由台積電來產製請我們的國人要安心大眾要放心不會有各自外洩的可能"},{"start":11779.801,"end":11806.621,"text":"是單憑就因為是台積電做的是一個部長的保證就絕對沒有這個資訊的漏洞嗎我跟你講就像現在已經有89%的國家使用數位身份證就連法律最完整的愛沙尼亞跟德國他們都發生這個駭客的大規模攻擊包括愛沙尼亞造成銀行跟政府的停擺"},{"start":11807.702,"end":11821.118,"text":"德國在2018年也被發現有資安漏洞還可以假冒本人來存取這個網路的資訊跟服務我們現在手上的資料就是說像德國"},{"start":11823.277,"end":11850.65,"text":"反對的理由裡面包括德國也只有不到三成的人有啟用這種晶片功能就是我們的這個數位身份證所以在這樣子的一個在我國我們台灣也沒有專法也沒有專責機構來做監理來做後面的一個管轄然後就倉促的提出數位身份證那造成了我們現在的一個"},{"start":11851.857,"end":11861.326,"text":"跟被這個廠商求償那我們到底這一次我們又要賠多少錢這些錢這些被求償的金額是不是又要民眾買單"},{"start":11864.91,"end":11886.324,"text":"這個據我了解是因為這個是內政部在主導的啦所以主要內政部主導那既然是內政部主導但是我想要問的就是說工程會主委工程委員會主委吳主委他在備詢的時候有提到說這件事情一定有人負責但是"},{"start":11887.363,"end":11903.643,"text":"．"},{"start":11904.202,"end":11906.123,"text":"委員講這個問這個問題啊我真的我是我個人真的沒辦法回答"},{"start":11929.571,"end":11950.293,"text":"因為這個牽涉的部分要這麼講全台灣2300萬人如果假設這個今天數位身份證已經上路了那碰到不曉得碰到什麼情況是這樣的漏洞啊或者是裡面一些資訊的被駭客攻擊啊那全部的國人都會遭受這樣子的一個攻擊那這些所以我在想這是一個"},{"start":11951.408,"end":11951.988,"text":"報告委員當初我們的機器設備採購是3.79億接近4億嘛對不對"},{"start":11972.645,"end":11983.027,"text":"是不是對3.79OK那後來不是有負了一個暫緩計畫之後負了多少錢暫緩期間機器折舊加上我們暫緩期間的費用總共負了2.02億就是我們3.092.22.02OK3.09那就4億多嘛沒有3.095點多嘛5億多嘛那現在要賠多少錢"},{"start":11998.43,"end":12020.401,"text":"那現在這個2.021是內政部已經支付給我們的不是,那後來跟廠商的這個跟廠商就是我們跟下游的供應商之間,材料供應商那因為次約終止以後結算的金額是最高2.8億2.8億,所以總共金額多少,到底多少那實際上2.8億還要看有一些剩餘的材料這些錢不管怎麼樣這些錢是誰要賠的"},{"start":12022.591,"end":12045.302,"text":"那我們給廠商這個錢還是我們賠嘛 對不對還是由稅金來賠嘛 對不對因為我們是從預算裡面的預算去還嘛所以這個我們要跟我們的業主內政部那邊去要這個錢總而言之就是說這個政府一個錯誤的政策一個倉促然後沒有做完整規劃的就是一個當初為什麼要執行這個政策是為了誰可不可以告訴我"},{"start":12046.321,"end":12074.68,"text":"當初我們是承接內政部委託我們做身份證的製作,自發作業是你們委託嗎?我們接受內政部委託嗎?對,我們接受內政部委託所以一個錯誤的政策讓我們虧了這些錢那假設這個政策真的上路了,拿到了這個身份證讓我們資安的疑慮或者說接受到這種科技駭客的攻擊所後面造成的這種真的是無法想像所以我想"},{"start":12076.821,"end":12095.011,"text":"在這邊我們要告訴各位接下來我們聽到陳院長說這些設備在未推行前還可以用在別的地方我可以請教總裁這些設備如果沒有做我們的這個沒有去執行那他可以用在什麼地方跟委員報告一下"},{"start":12100.294,"end":12124.157,"text":"因為這個設備我們是一般在製作高階的卡片用的所以一般的信用卡是不會用到這個設備一般是政府的卡片證卡會用到所以我們可以發行臺灣的數位貴賓卡是不是是不是這個概念那我們現在考慮的就是沒有晶片的那能夠提供什麼服務啊對啊就是說我們要發行的話如果發行數位貴賓卡可以提供什麼服務給持卡人"},{"start":12125.004,"end":12132.187,"text":"我們現在可以做卡片沒問題這個設備可以做卡片做高階的方式有跟內政部建議過可以做不含晶片的身份證卡片"},{"start":12138.763,"end":12139.023,"text":"我接著請教就是說"},{"start":12157.344,"end":12183.797,"text":"再請教總裁現今外籍移工我們在臺灣的外籍移工非常多那因為他們這個跨國匯款的管道有幾種可不可以快速告訴我有幾種現在目前有兩種第一個就是小額匯款公司現在是金管會准許一些的匯款公司匯款另外一個就是中介中介是貸結匯這兩個管道"},{"start":12186.454,"end":12196.907,"text":"生下兩個管道原來的那些私立就業服務機構算不算在裡面?現在不算了嗎?可是那個不是有合法的私立就業服務機構有1680家?"},{"start":12199.804,"end":12205.53,"text":"應該是應該1680家他是待結會的對待結會沒有錯嘛那是屬於待結會OKOK對對沒有錯那個是在91年的不是那個是當時87年的時候勞委會的韓式同一開放的嘛到91年那個8月份就廢止了嘛"},{"start":12220.525,"end":12236.158,"text":"但是我們中央銀行還是有那個什麼法院預計我知道就是讓他延用一直用到現在對不對好那我直接講重點就是說一年一年的會對的金額大概是900億"},{"start":12237.699,"end":12253.887,"text":"如果以一個外籍移工以1萬塊台幣的話的金額會到每個月每個月會1萬塊回去故鄉給他們的家人那這樣子人數75萬人然後算起來大概一年是900億但是目前111年會對的額度不到250"},{"start":12259.946,"end":12260.607,"text":"我們提供你那個比較準確的數據"},{"start":12275.003,"end":12280.465,"text":"去年匯出去42.4億美金一百一十三年一月匯出3.7億美金平均每人匯出是490塊美金"},{"start":12295.811,"end":12317.125,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":12317.796,"end":12333.492,"text":"我們可以聽為什麼差異那麼大因為你是用估算說每一個人多少每一個人對啦對啦當然啦那我再跟你講就是地下會對的部分我們都知道只要有漏洞詐騙集團是無所不在的是是是"},{"start":12333.592,"end":12339.093,"text":"我們希望能夠保障他們外籍移工有一個安全更好的一個工作環境包括他們的薪資所得我們希望他能夠得到一個非常安全非常安全的這樣子的環境"},{"start":12361.677,"end":12376.862,"text":"讓他們的辛苦的工作的得到的這些報酬能夠很完整的回到他們的家鄉回到他們的親人的手上好不好那請總裁這些部分再請你提供給我那我們就好謝謝因為時間到了謝謝謝謝你謝謝言委員接著我們請羅明台召委謝謝"},{"start":12394.673,"end":12400.255,"text":"主席各位出列習慣當然好主席各位請楊總裁請總裁齁羅委員早楊總裁你好我看總裁是很重要啦齁謝謝謝謝中華民國就靠你啦那你身體狀況好不好你的身體狀況好不好還很好"},{"start":12423.956,"end":12425.239,"text":"我看你蠻硬朗的齁"},{"start":12427.739,"end":12433.222,"text":"總裁名字是楊金龍剛好今年是龍年the year of dragon"},{"start":12456.054,"end":12480.686,"text":"所以希望你這個龍是不但在中華民國可以屹立不搖更可以是東方升起的一條巨龍講到這個我就跟你討論匹夫無罪懷璧其罪一般可能聽不懂但我知道你聽得懂就是"},{"start":12482.205,"end":12498.942,"text":"現在世界的發展潮流情況之下比特幣數字貨幣是變成未來必需的一個趨勢你想想看如果在六七年前本席在這裡"},{"start":12500.481,"end":12516.038,"text":"指詢的時候拜託中央銀行趕快發行新台幣的數字貨幣你那時候做的時候搞不好今天就沒有比特幣了啊 不會啦 比特幣還會存在的新台幣的數字貨幣在國際有機會可以閃閃發光"},{"start":12523.14,"end":12543.675,"text":"已經錯失了6千年的機會我們聽到很多虛擬貨幣的這些年輕人他說比特幣你剛剛說他是個商品他沒有罪啊他如果不好"},{"start":12545.22,"end":12562.897,"text":"為什麼Elon Musk他要持有比特幣如果他不好的話為什麼美國那麼多的上市公司財產財報上面有寫比特幣為什麼不好的話美國政府手上持有比特幣"},{"start":12564.278,"end":12593.522,"text":"更甚者在美國的SEC也通過了11檔ETF的虛擬貨幣比特幣的項目你知道這個變成是一個世代的差距問題年輕人他們踏入這一塊他們對這個是充滿期待跟希望的"},{"start":12594.741,"end":12621.037,"text":"假設67年前中華民國政府不逃避用誠懇面對認真的態度來好好把法令規章管理好那你想想看67年前所有投入虛擬貨幣的這些年輕人手上的資產當初一個比特幣大概是6000塊美金"},{"start":12622.868,"end":12651.613,"text":"現在已經漲到七萬兩千塊美金了總裁我們是不是間接的讓這些年輕人上司的一個可以在資產大幅增加的一個機會就這些年輕人很多啊都是台大資工系畢業的啊都是高材生啊很多在台灣待不下去就"},{"start":12653.53,"end":12673.079,"text":"流落到新加坡跑到香港跑到杜拜去你如果說比特幣他是犯罪的你就全面禁止啊可是他不是啊他是一個商品嘛所以我們不應該本末倒置"},{"start":12674.164,"end":12699.414,"text":"真正有問題的是詐騙的這些人是金管會你要好好的把所有的審查制度法令規章你應該把它做好才對嘛這個要混啊所以本席在幾年前不同的時間同樣的地點我曾經建議央行"},{"start":12700.404,"end":12723.99,"text":"你要不要卓於買入一些比特幣當作我們的外匯存底你那時候如果買6000多塊現在是漲10倍你知道中華民國有多少人嗷嗷待哺就是要靠中央銀行去年中央銀行繳庫多少我們去年繳1800億1800億沒有一個單位那麼厲害的"},{"start":12729.475,"end":12756.181,"text":"當大家在講說那個台電開始電費要漲了10%你知道總裁啊民間啊小老百姓心裡是多麼的害怕已經是沒有什麼資產了薪水沒有漲物價一直要飆漲這個電如果再漲10%以後啊那生活怎麼生活啊"},{"start":12757.677,"end":12763.679,"text":"所以總裁有沒有辦法央行多賺一點這個台電的一千億你來出啊"},{"start":12764.417,"end":12788.151,"text":"不過我可以就是說很簡單的剛剛委員有講到就是說中央銀行要不要來投資這個比特幣比如說以前它多少漲到多少6000漲到7200但是委員我跟你報告中央銀行還是跟以前所說的一樣我們不會投資比特幣"},{"start":12789.852,"end":12810.423,"text":"因為你說的比特幣從這邊漲到那邊去的時候但是委員你有沒有想到你買到高點的時候呢當它跌下來的時候我們就虧大了然後當然委員講的沒有錯它現在又漲上去啦但是呢7.2億現在目前7.2、7.3這個不是它的最高點"},{"start":12816.306,"end":12835.104,"text":"他有最高點我記得好像有碰到8萬的請問總裁比特幣以後可能會漲到多少錢這個我不敢說有人講到說70萬美金沒有沒有現在目前是說他是到10萬不過我跟委員報告總裁eo mask是傻瓜嗎"},{"start":12837.452,"end":12865.711,"text":"他從8萬跌下來然後慢慢慢慢再上去然後再下來然後再上去這表示什麼他的波動都非常大是總裁那Elon Musk那他為什麼要買比特幣啊那我跟我Mask我記得Mask那時候貨他也很瘋狂他也就是說他買了多少而且他甚至說你用比特幣可以買我的Tesla"},{"start":12867.131,"end":12893.857,"text":"對阿他也是這樣子說阿但是後來有沒有後來他也沒有阿他沒有現在還沒有不代表以後不會有阿但是沒有阿其實總裁我知道你的保守的心態我可以理解阿中華民國的所有官員一般都是非常的保守但是我們期待的是希望台灣能有更多"},{"start":12895.519,"end":12911.631,"text":"遠高遠大的理想可以帶領台灣往前走往前衝你都不要那為什麼新加坡他要你都不行為什麼日本行所以央行大概有幾個字就是你參考一下就是央行大概保守有餘開創不足"},{"start":12922.524,"end":12923.486,"text":"我期待希望的就是說可以有"},{"start":12934.281,"end":12956.953,"text":"大破大立大格局才不枉你的名字叫做楊金龍金的要像一條龍一樣飛龍在天啊而是那個龍坐不成變成小蛇大家對你的期望就是會落空剛剛第一個第二個所提的"},{"start":12957.893,"end":12965.001,"text":"就是本席也是在這邊建議啊還在文員也建議過當黃金那時候每盎司1225的時候本席曾經建議總裁你要多少買一點黃金結果有沒有買"},{"start":12976.701,"end":13005.18,"text":"我沒買沒買沒買都很可惜阿現在每盎司已經漲到2200塊啦本席在考量的是美國不斷的印鈔票大量的印印印印印那請問總裁美國印了那麼多鈔票無限制在印以後會有什麼影響你手上外匯存地你還要放美金嗎我跟委員報告啦會不會通膨美元會貶值喔是啦"},{"start":13005.789,"end":13024.202,"text":"所以呢就是說就是說通膨呢某些國家就是因為他本身的通膨很高所以他才要握有黃金有些國家呢是因為美國制裁他所以呢他才要多買一些黃金"},{"start":13026.059,"end":13038.126,"text":"那像那個RussiaRussia就多買黃金啊中國大陸呢他也是怕人家那個所以他就把外溢存底呢把它轉移黃金啊在台灣呢另外我跟委員報告委員說你說黃金從多少漲到多少不過我給你一個數據我給你一個數據"},{"start":13049.861,"end":13076.09,"text":"我們有計算從民國78年到目前1113年2月底黃金平均的報酬率是4.7%因為他沒有他只有他只有capital gain所以那個就只計算capital gain他平均的報酬率是4.7%美國的公債是多少5%不只是這樣子喔"},{"start":13078.455,"end":13085.767,"text":"黃�金的波動度多少15%美國公債呢他的波動度多少4.6%你看看"},{"start":13088.444,"end":13090.725,"text":"總裁你會繼續買黃金還是買美國公債?總裁最後問你以後會不會考慮買比特幣?"},{"start":13116.524,"end":13127.161,"text":"我跟委員報告我們不會考慮買比特幣但是我們會研究是否要買黃金那你為什麼那你手上為什麼要持股台糖的股票"},{"start":13127.898,"end":13151.224,"text":"沒有那台糖的股票那是longlong time那是很久以前的事情了那是因為那你就趕快要處理掉啊怎麼會央行比特幣不要買那你手上你要買台糖的股票這個邏輯怪怪的沒有那沒有不是我們主動去買的而是以前啊台糖有一些的可能我不曉得因為這個是很久以前的事情"},{"start":13151.784,"end":13156.687,"text":"那你就會被外界認為可以買台糖你不買比特幣那怪怪的啊那當然我沒有就誠實我剛剛一直講比特幣呢從兩萬塊然後上去到趴趴趴八萬多然後又跌下來然後趴趴又到七萬塊謝謝羅委員謝謝楊總裁他就只有接受你當小蛇的建議而已"},{"start":13178.6,"end":13190.47,"text":"希望央行能有更開闊的思維面對未來國際的挑戰我接受委員的建議多元的思考我接受謝謝總裁接著我們請謝玉鳳謝委員你實在是人才"},{"start":13209.391,"end":13210.695,"text":"謝謝主席我想要請我們楊總裁楊總裁"},{"start":13222.273,"end":13241.532,"text":"總裁好我本來是要來詢問你的不過我要的問題你早上好像都已經回答了因為其實我看到通膨的問題你一說國內的通膨可能要定毛在2%我看現在好像都在2%左右對不對"},{"start":13242.193,"end":13272.193,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":13272.293,"end":13300.11,"text":"那這會有連鎖的效應是不是當然啦 這個只是說我們concern啦事實上前幾波是沒有這樣的一個現象啦我只是說有些時候我們會就是說是要考慮遭援一點或就是說比較保守一點所以我才做這樣的一個解釋那不然事實上我剛剛在強調的就是說事實上如果說你到2.2"},{"start":13301.491,"end":13315.618,"text":"二點二事實上呢二點二也是在2%左右啦而且是說二點四九的下來就二點二嘛假設說這樣子說啦假設我沒有就說是二點二啦但是我中央銀行呢我是比較單比較"},{"start":13317.199,"end":13334.513,"text":"比較要小心的就是說我們的物價從1.97到2.95到2.49到今年如果說再突破2%的話那很顯然的就是說這個可能就是說在很長的時間都是超過2%這個我們要小心"},{"start":13336.554,"end":13351.114,"text":"通膨高利率就要高這個就是一定的嘛這個是道理我不要就是說是就理論上是這樣子就實務上也是這樣子通膨高利率就要高這個是無庸置疑的"},{"start":13351.514,"end":13367.234,"text":"所以美國他們這個月它的物價本來預期會下跌可是它又好像有一點緩步的上升所以使得他們預計可能要降碼的這個FED要降息的這樣子的腳步會趨緩"},{"start":13371.438,"end":13389.006,"text":"對於臺灣而言我們也沒有降息的空間嗎所以這是你早上的我剛剛也是在講對沒有錯就是說在6月底以前我們怎麼會有考慮到就是說要降息呢不會那如果油價呢昨天昨天說的他說的他預期今年度的3.43%的經濟成長率是因為他把油價設算成80"},{"start":13399.47,"end":13407.054,"text":"我剛還問了中油他們預估今年的油價是80那目前是80有可能就在於75到95的這個區間那我不曉得央行這個"},{"start":13413.358,"end":13436.654,"text":"對,我們事實上在我們的報告裡面我們也提到了因為這個央行不會自己去預測那個油價是會多少我們也都是引用國外的權威的那個什麼的機構那基本上我們預測好像也是差不多超81塊左右平均一年也不會就是說比去年高事實上跟去年低一點點而已"},{"start":13437.475,"end":13460.374,"text":"跟去年實際的石油的價格是稍微低一點點不過還是提高啦那個尾巴的衝突是啦那因為這個預測我跟委員報告就預測是很難就是說現在預測81塊就是81塊也不是這個是參考價值我說的只是參考值而已啦一樣的不是石油價格是這樣子"},{"start":13461.895,"end":13469.346,"text":"事實上你對CPI或是對那個ZDP的預測都是參考價值而已因為後面的那個資訊會慢慢的進來那什麼時候我們這個3.43%不會達成"},{"start":13475.53,"end":13502.181,"text":"經濟成長率GDP 4.3我跟委員報告因為他認為就是說我們的出口會好我記得好像他就說預測出口會成長6.1他在這樣的一個前提之下6.1除了就是說6.1他出口好還有另外他就說他的進口可能會比較下跌一點"},{"start":13503.361,"end":13515.273,"text":"他的那個輸出這個部分那所以呢他就做了這樣的一個那假設說出口沒有他這樣子的好的話那可怕恐怕我們的經濟增長力也不會那麼高"},{"start":13516.027,"end":13545.336,"text":"所以還是要看出口嗎?出口好你的投資才會好所以油跟電對於這個GDP的影響性就你看起來就是依他那個估計起來都不會影響太大基本上呢油價是比較不會影響到我們的GDP啦油價呢也比較不會影響到我們金人的那個什麼物價的水準啦但是呢"},{"start":13546.116,"end":13563.943,"text":"我們的我們的經濟部我們台電之所以要漲價是因為他虧損他虧損他要彌補他以前的他動動要凍結的部分他現在要慢慢的要上升所以呢也就是說你直接的效果就電價上漲的時候對CPI他馬上會有直接的影響另外呢"},{"start":13567.725,"end":13588.16,"text":"我們的企業他因為當價 當價漲的時候呢他的生產成本也會提高生產成本提高的時候呢他會管價給這個消費者那出口數字也有可能會影響嗎那出口的話基本上是比較是比較比較不會了還有看到你的外匯啊是不是是是是"},{"start":13590.562,"end":13611.13,"text":"還有對於就是各國都在研究數位貨幣對這也是你有做好準備嗎對於我們的治安對因為我們已經沒有辦法仰賴數位部了嗎現在數位部好像都沒有就是infunctional可是你的專家學者"},{"start":13614.231,"end":13641.812,"text":"對,治安的問題呢?你們央行內部的研究對於治安的問題那唯有治安的問題解決了數位貨幣才有可能實行嗎?這個我也覺得委員講的很有道理就是說治安這個一定就是說不能就是說央行的一個系統被駭客進去了以後我們的CPTC整個受到很大的影響那這個支付會亂起來啊"},{"start":13643.933,"end":13660.386,"text":"這個也是我們非常謹慎的地方也是在這裡那你們已經做了沙盒的那個我們這個都有在注意什麼時候可以至於我剛才也講了就是說至於什麼時候非常保守喔"},{"start":13660.666,"end":13681.022,"text":"什麼時候你可以做好準備?因為其實各國都在準備了嗎?什麼時候?我們都說他在準備他在做研究但是基本上中央銀行也是一樣的但是我們是很謹慎的但是我們的步伐不會比他們慢我們的步伐也許都比他們快"},{"start":13681.735,"end":13697.683,"text":"好,那個主席已經站起來了他比較喜歡比特幣,他不喜歡數位貨幣謝謝好,謝謝接著請邱智偉,邱偉文資訊有請央行楊總裁楊總裁"},{"start":13718.003,"end":13740.925,"text":"邱委員早總裁好總裁在你報告裡面就是說你們採取漸進溫和的緊縮貨幣政策所以我看到你們這個趨勢圖大概從去年的第二季開始利率就沒有改變對應該是第二季嘛那到現在已經10個月了那未來呢未來下半年呢"},{"start":13742.168,"end":13760.538,"text":"還是你那個大原則你建金溫和的話可能會很微緩的升息對啦我們就是說我們的中央銀行的一個升息跟美國的升息是不大一樣的美國是噗噗噗噗一直上去"},{"start":13761.078,"end":13761.919,"text":"所以政策利率到現在還不是一個頂點"},{"start":13787.903,"end":13791.411,"text":"這個就要看我們下一次我們禮拜四我們會禮監事會"},{"start":13793.427,"end":13820.141,"text":"所以如果是漸進溫和的貨幣緊急事項長期它是應該是要維生的對不對那現在你這樣問你是不是還沒有到零點就是說這種利益的東西陳委員講的也沒有錯啦很很對我覺得你慢慢的慢慢的那也有可能啊就上去啊但是也有可能就是說我上去了以後呢我要停在那邊然後呢我要停很久"},{"start":13820.981,"end":13821.642,"text":"另外這個所謂豪宅的門檻你會把它調降嗎?"},{"start":13845.902,"end":13870.135,"text":"好載的門檻是不是要調降好像媒體有報了說央行這次理事會會討論我跟委員報告就是說我們的選擇性信用管制這個措施我們每次的那個理監事會都會討論我們也都新聞稿都講得很清楚我們是滾動式的檢討那滾動式的檢討認為就是說"},{"start":13874.557,"end":13901.35,"text":"有可能的時候呢有必要的時候呢我們還是可以實施啊那如果你們這次理事會做成調降門檻的決議那他的政策發動原因為何不過我雖然我這麼說啦但是委員你也不要把它誤解說我一定就要調降你還沒說啊我也不會我也不會說但是呢我要跟委員報告一件事就是說"},{"start":13903.012,"end":13906.956,"text":"財政部他調降有他調降的道理財政部的"},{"start":13919.051,"end":13919.912,"text":"對於這個豪宅的門檻呢我"},{"start":13944.314,"end":13970.188,"text":"還是根據我自己本身對房地產的情況還有貸款的情況我會做檢討所以大家都覺得就是說那個財政部調降下來中央銀行是要follow他好像也不一定是這樣子但是我們還是要強調的中央銀行要調整這個的時候我們會根據我們自己的"},{"start":13972.675,"end":13989.648,"text":"必要性跟正當性然後社會都能夠接受啦然後就不會影響到這個正常的市場秩序這個委員你講的我們都接受這幾個原則把握就好我都接受所以要必要性正當性其實性"},{"start":13990.208,"end":14018.67,"text":"然後能夠解決問題然後又能夠社會認同又不會影響到正常的市場秩序但是沒有錯沒有錯委員的這幾個原則我們都會把它記下來事實上我們的實施也都是朝這個方向走的好另外一個議題請教在你們這個全球經濟前景的不確定因素裡面包括對中國這個經濟成長放緩特別講到這個他們的房地產的這個低迷啊本金消費的低迷啊對所以"},{"start":14020.194,"end":14034.361,"text":"國有銀行不管是公股銀行還是這個私人銀行在中國若有任何的投資啊這個這些可能會面臨到中國經濟下行或消費不振所說的影響有沒有相關的曝險的這個"},{"start":14037.211,"end":14061.444,"text":"你說我們台灣據我瞭解因為這個是整個在追蹤是那個金管會不過據我瞭解金管會都publish他都會publish就是說我們的push有多少不過我記得我記得我們金管會都認為就是說在他的push不高都是在可控制的範圍之內"},{"start":14062.711,"end":14091.819,"text":"所以你理解是這個金管會有相關的警示作用對對對對對目前不管是經濟中國經濟下行消費不振我國有銀行在中國的破險也在可控制的範圍嗎是是是還是有控制對另外你提到經濟零碎化跟供應鏈重組的問題這對台灣是利還是弊啊對台灣是利對台灣整體的經貿利益經貿實力這是利還是弊我跟委員報告齁"},{"start":14095.167,"end":14101.476,"text":"應該你說他利嗎?也不是全部是利啦。但是我們就說就台灣來講我覺得有利也有弊。那這個就要評估啦。"},{"start":14110.888,"end":14139.144,"text":"但是我跟委員報告以目前來講的話到目前為止的話我們臺灣是比較不受到影響所以是利大於弊所以你從金融來看我們是成長的因為這是一個長期的過程所以他在調整調整的過程當中臺灣是不是到最後是利大於弊這個我先講到目前為止是利大於弊我從數字上來看我到目前為止我們還是沒有受到影響"},{"start":14141.309,"end":14167.295,"text":"另外這個當然主權財務基金這部分那當然已經有很多討論我再半分鐘這個當然我也覺得要用專法會比較好啦那央行一貫的政策就是用專法嘛那最主要是錢的來源怎麼來你要對於四大基金那四大基金現在都有主管機關在個別在處理你沒有必要再把四大基金再整合成一個主權基金我是這樣看法這個總裁你同意嗎"},{"start":14168.395,"end":14172.438,"text":"對啦我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我"},{"start":14198.776,"end":14198.796,"text":"請楊總裁"},{"start":14223.036,"end":14234.8,"text":"總裁好很多委員都關心所謂的通膨你這邊報告裡面有講到是說差不多是兩趴左右在今年對不對但是大家會看到是說電價調漲是"},{"start":14237.577,"end":14266.397,"text":"這一波電價調漲可能來勢洶洶喔是大家講是說工業用電有可能漲到15%到20%然後330度以下的民生用電也可能會漲所以換言之它是一個全面性的那既然是全面性的話您認為說這個通膨率還會那麼樂觀只有2%嗎所以我才覺得說我們的這個2%左右是去年12月所做的預測那我們3月份會有新的預測"},{"start":14266.937,"end":14267.125,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":14267.918,"end":14295.921,"text":"三月份報告我就說我們禮監事會會有一個新的是下禮拜禮監事會是下個禮拜四嗯下個禮拜四是但是現在目前看起來而且請容許本席再提醒喔是在今年環境部他還會再針對所謂的碳費是也會提出來是明天環境部也會有這個審議會然後會把決定說到底我們臺灣的這個碳費是每公噸要多少錢以及怎麼樣收那都會做一個這個"},{"start":14297.822,"end":14321.894,"text":"遊戲規則千呼萬喚要使出來所以原則上這一些部分可能都會影響到我們到最後的一個消費者的一個物價我覺得委員說的沒有錯但是呢電價是比較可能會影響今年那至於就說碳費的話呢因為碳費那個他那個是可能要到明年才去徵收不曉得是今年"},{"start":14323.795,"end":14338.21,"text":"今年公布集聚以及收費標準明年開始徵收明年徵收今年嗎那就是說是明年的事情但是明年的事情但是可能在今年就可能他就會有一些的"},{"start":14339.091,"end":14349.322,"text":"議期心理啦都會可能啦可能啦但是我也不能但是我一直覺得就是說在這一次的禮監事會呢我們要很謹慎的來討論這個議題是我們會"},{"start":14354.187,"end":14370.918,"text":"我想我們不需要說這個我們也不需要美化但我們真的預期要反映真實的狀況我非常同意那個委員的看法另外早上也有委員有問到所謂最近這個"},{"start":14372.523,"end":14386.711,"text":"一天服務是一場的樂那你這邊有提到是說這怕會有羊群效應啊要避免是可不可以再救教一下如果說現在大家那麼的樂尤其是本期查了一下相關資料台灣從2020年嗯"},{"start":14388.632,"end":14403.967,"text":"一點七兆的這個ETF買賣到2023年已經成長到3.8兆換言之在過去兩年多的時間有兩兆的資金在投入那變成是有人甚至形容說ETF變成是全民運動"},{"start":14405.569,"end":14406.229,"text":"有沒有什麼樣的風險那風險會是怎麼樣"},{"start":14427.639,"end":14442.079,"text":"一般來說,如果假設現在股市大跌,或是怎麼樣?對,一樣的,所以說因為他上去嘛,他上去的時候呢,喔,好像是大家追高嘛,但是當他下來的時候呢,他就會受到影響啊,所以投資人他"},{"start":14444.762,"end":14472.895,"text":"所以剛剛我也提到ETF現在很多的投資人他根本都不知道ETF是什麼他看到就是說他現在是上帳看到那個數字大家就買了對就上車了上車了以後一直上去我總覺得稍微有一點剛剛有一個委員講到了就是說現在好像是都是牛市喔不能說是ETF喔連比特幣也是這樣子喔一直漲美國的股票也是一直漲喔"},{"start":14474.095,"end":14497.189,"text":"但是呢很多的市場的專家都是在警告了會不會有一些的泡沫剛剛也提到了就是說跟這一次跟那個什麼那個那個網路泡沫是不是很類似這個都是要投資人要冷靜的思考總裁也有人講說這個是所謂網紅行銷啊"},{"start":14501.131,"end":14524.396,"text":"對對對對我我也會蠻蠻那個因為網紅出去了以後呢就很可能就是說那些的不曉得的人呢我都聽到那個時候說有多好多好多好那結果就跳下去啦那這個是我也蠻蠻覺得就是說可能可能他有一個有一個所以呢所以我記得好像是金管會對這個行銷"},{"start":14526.596,"end":14546.082,"text":"你的網紅跟這個跟個金融機構是不是有勾結對我好像他也有做這樣的我覺得今晚會他這樣的做這樣的事情是對的是對的也應該要做一些這個調配跟控管但是總裁我再救教一下你覺得今年2024年ETF會不會再飆新高"},{"start":14548.052,"end":14567.085,"text":"因為我剛剛講說2023年3.8兆是是是因為就是說現在為什麼市場都是很瘋狂現在都是有一個議題美國要調降利率了美國要調降利率了好像就所有你看看"},{"start":14567.945,"end":14588.899,"text":"現在美國的股票市場太脹了,我們的科技股都脹了,現在日本也是脹了,台灣也都是脹了,所以好像都有一股非常樂觀,所以我剛剛也會提到所以才會示警,才講說不要揚軍效應"},{"start":14590.98,"end":14606.797,"text":"總裁我最後請教本身有看到這個新聞是說日本央行他們的貨幣寬鬆政策是有包括說買進ETF對那我們這邊呢我們沒有啊我們會不會考慮我們不會當然我們不會這央行從來就是不會進市場"},{"start":14609.039,"end":14627.355,"text":"日本是非常特殊的一個國家他因為他通說嘛通說呢所以呢你看看他ETF進去買他股票都一直買那個美國的那個英國日本的那個什麼政府的公債很大一部分都是他買去了ETF很大一部分REITs"},{"start":14628.515,"end":14640.765,"text":"所以我們跟日本央行最大不同就考量說我們不會去購買ETF最主要的理由是什麼我們沒有通縮啊我們沒有通縮我們現在反而是有一點2%以上"},{"start":14643.494,"end":14657.039,"text":"所以呢一直以來央行都沒有採QE的一個貨幣政策都沒有所以我們未來也不會考慮說去當然當然如果說我們未來不會考慮去購買ETF不會好了解謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝"},{"start":14680.819,"end":14685.204,"text":"主席本期想邀請楊總裁楊總裁楊老遠早總裁好現在午安了你辛苦了那國際貨幣基金的報告說全球已經有"},{"start":14701.389,"end":14719.323,"text":"將近100個那這個國家正在研擬中央銀行數位貨幣CBDC那央行也持續在研議那你們最後目前已經完成了第一階段所謂的批發型CBDC的可行性技術研究"},{"start":14720.023,"end":14725.406,"text":"跟第二階段的通用型的試驗計畫那你們也已經進入到進入到這個意見調查跟精進平台設計工作當中那也強調你們按部就班準備中那但是你過去也曾經說過"},{"start":14741.074,"end":14757.017,"text":"您說過說CBDC我們不是要競賽也不需要這個搶先發行目前我們的時間表發行是什麼時候呢我們到目前為止我就說在研究的階段至少至少都要三年以上"},{"start":14757.518,"end":14773.42,"text":"至少3年以上目前往後推我們還是往前推這是往前推的時間啊對對對還是要往前推就要3年的時間當我們覺得就是說已經我們也蠻有信心的要譜後大眾的一個接受"},{"start":14774.541,"end":14802.192,"text":"在資安剛剛也有講到這個資安的問題還有就是說講到就是說他的隱私權然後隱私權就是你拿了這個CBDC你的交易呢會不會受到監控這些的問題還有包括就是說我們的CBDC要不要有利息這些都是必須要做技術性還有就是說在還有的在在一些理論上呢都要必須要做"},{"start":14802.992,"end":14811.379,"text":"中央銀行楊總裁金龍率所屬單位主管暨財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列財金資訊股份有限公司董事長列財金資訊股份有限公司"},{"start":14830.053,"end":14838.781,"text":"當然這也必須跟國際來看這個他的樣態是如何對對對或者是這樣子但是我們還是必須要有所準備隨時可以上隨時可以待命因為你之前講了一個這一句話我覺得是蠻有智慧的他說你說的時候不是要競賽"},{"start":14856.115,"end":14856.596,"text":"是什麼呢?穩健"},{"start":14871.306,"end":14885.838,"text":"你不保守但是你是穩健那但是萬一人家國際間跑得比你快你要三年以上啊所以我還是希望你備戰吧保守的意思就是說你可能走三步退兩步"},{"start":14887.551,"end":14912.79,"text":"我也不盡然這是你的解釋但是我也願意接受你的穩健我們也不需要在這邊咬文絕字但是重點是說一旦國際的樣態因為現在訊息萬變我想你有很多套的版本吧對不對你應該有武俠小說裡面我看你比他的版本還多吧委員是講的沒有錯"},{"start":14914.071,"end":14938.802,"text":"所以我看透你是保守當中的進行式的也是激進派的所以我們希望就是要能夠跟世界接軌接下來我們討論你的這個貨幣政策實現的法定目標但是我們知道現在呢光光一個氣候變遷"},{"start":14939.462,"end":14960.401,"text":"對。對。"},{"start":14960.902,"end":14975.461,"text":"這個都是廠商必須要增加成本現在歐盟他開始我們剛剛在衛福部跟環境部在討論也歐盟他們提出的都已經什麼時候要課稅的時間表他都已經訂出來"},{"start":14979.185,"end":14994.994,"text":"所以我們當然環境部是明天才要再開這個探足機的會議所以我們也希望他們加緊這個腳步所以在這樣的情況之下我們看來綠色通膨的壓力是勢在必行"},{"start":14995.794,"end":15010.082,"text":"那對於我們整個物價穩定會造成一個挑戰所以你政府在永續發展跟溫室氣體的減量的這些目標你對於這個評估氣候變遷對總體經濟跟金融體系的潛在影響那你要怎麼樣去協助整個經濟體順利的來轉型到永續的綠色經濟"},{"start":15023.889,"end":15040.315,"text":"您的版本是什麼呢?我跟委員報告,委員就是說對這個議題我覺得您蠻瞭解的,不過我也跟...這國際議題對,我跟委員報告,事實上就金管會跟中央銀行我們各扮演不同的角色"},{"start":15041.275,"end":15054.105,"text":"今晚會議呢他是說你的每個金融機構他必須要配合因為實體經濟跟金融信用的這個部分他一定要就是說來鼓勵企業來達到這個目標你們是要穩定嗎"},{"start":15061.17,"end":15070.233,"text":"對那中央銀行我們有我們的那個角色所以我們在2022年底我們公布了我們中央銀行對氣候變遷的一個策略的措施我們也有而且我們一步一步的要如何來協助您現在講到這個一步一步就是本席所提"},{"start":15085.118,"end":15099.382,"text":"因為2020年到目前為止我跟你說的訊息萬變所以你們還是要因應因為這樣的速度太嚇人了我想你有很多的版本我們會放心所以一定要用心最後一個議題我要請問因為"},{"start":15103.991,"end":15125.209,"text":"媒體說這個月的22號電力會公佈要漲如果真的成如媒體所說的我們好緊張我告訴了王美花部長學校班班有冷氣不能漲我們的漁農業的這個電不能漲我們的330度以下民生用電不能漲"},{"start":15126.19,"end":15145.142,"text":"所以在這樣的一個情況之下我看到主計總署也告訴我們物價指數的CPI它是暴增到3.08%但是它還沒有加上電漲價的這個部分換句話說N型的走勢會出現那N型的走勢會出現再加上"},{"start":15145.842,"end":15161.19,"text":"下個月的電力漲那這個數字還要超標所以在這種情況之下我據聞你3月21號會召開第一次的第一季李建勢會是嗎會不會因為我國物價的漲幅"},{"start":15166.548,"end":15185.019,"text":"會有做升席的手段呢?會不會啊?我跟委員報告就是說跟就是說針對這個通膨的議題啊中央銀行在下一次的禮監事會呢會很謹慎的很著眼的來討論這個議題我們3月21日就會有一個結果對所以3月21日很關鍵啊所以我們也很緊張啊因為似乎是"},{"start":15190.322,"end":15205.065,"text":"媒體說3月22號政府要宣布漲價那你的時間點在前一天3月21所以大家撐著眼睛在看會升息嗎?會嗎?會不會?你的認知3月21會不會做升息的動作?會不會?你個人的看法會不會?"},{"start":15217.647,"end":15242.657,"text":"當然你要理事會去決定嘛你個人的看法會不會理事會當然我們要經過理事會的決議嘛那你個人的方向呢會不會升起這個我還是沒辦法再說回答你還是謹慎還有什麼我還是謹慎對你剛剛講了好幾句欸我按謹慎周延元素元素你這一次元素啊我們背景也插在蛋外公"},{"start":15244.237,"end":15244.337,"text":"鄭振全"},{"start":15270.649,"end":15281.354,"text":"政委員不在請鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌鍾委員不在請蔡易宇蔡易宇蔡易宇蔡委員不在請鄭天才鄭天才鄭天才政委員不在"},{"start":15284.83,"end":15302.571,"text":"近日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢本次會議作如下決定報告及詢答完畢而委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請中央銀行於一周內以書面答覆委員另有要求期限者從其所定"},{"start":15304.124,"end":15316.416,"text":"本次會議程已進行完畢如果不在場委員補題書面執行員一併列入記錄、刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}