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署長我先請兩位來部長你好 老闆署長 辛苦了委員 老闆"},{"start":29.217,"end":39.805,"text":"部長請教你喔37個私刑犯啦現在有30個啊說已經憑離譜已經過期了沒保留的啊現在司法院因為我感覺很奇怪有可能這樣就查沒有啊沒有也把以前審判那些法官叫來問看有沒有你是不是都有幫他判私刑沒有那個就沒得查了啊這30個啦不能夠繼續記啊部長這樣要怎麼樣"},{"start":59.501,"end":84.98,"text":"大法官說可以再拖,那是不對的,那是違背人權的精神喔你給人家拖那麼久了對不對,有的拖了十幾年了這三十個如果不可以再拖就對了啦你如果要幫忙,我已經在這裡跟你講過了喔我們剛好有十五個大法官,包括李哲的那幾個都給他算了一個人叫林佑郎的,坐在他們家吃飯大三個月"},{"start":87.921,"end":102.217,"text":"有處理的對不對現在問題來了這七個都有一體的判決判於死刑所以大概這七個是沒命回中原啦部長我請教你一時要跟執行"},{"start":111.879,"end":116.929,"text":"這個我們會依照憲判議職8號的一個解釋,如果有受刑能力的話,我們就可以依法執行。"},{"start":124.692,"end":150.459,"text":"裡面有幾個可以執行的問題是你要執行嗎這管理在你這便你的問題這個有依照憲法的意旨的話那現在這個37個還在現在還在檢查總長在審那7個可以處理我告訴你這個還是要審這個我想這個我告訴你啦救法研法我們就以目前來講最高你現在要叫老總統請那些民調現在我存力"},{"start":152.717,"end":157.698,"text":"純粹沒有人有辦法救他民進黨在我委員會沒有一個可以救他,就純粹你你這麼大兩個人,你民調的氣差不多10%,看你要什麼我不會害你啦,我都在幫你捧場這七個可以打兩下,打兩下給我們看看,彌補人民對待法官釋懸的失望"},{"start":182.094,"end":203.2,"text":"對司法正義在你的勝負中還存在一點點的愚昧你有沒有想要這樣做嗎當然我們這就是我還是重申就是現在還在審查中審議中那這個我們會依照憲判意旨的這些的有受刑的我們就會依法執行"},{"start":204.585,"end":231.008,"text":"那剛才那個委員提到那個整個一個一個一個羈押的一個問題齁那我想因為帶這些確定死刑定驗的這些的死刑犯他們現在是說你不是羈押沒關係啦,可以拔你就要拔就對了啦你的意思是這樣啦齁是不是可以執行你就會執行是不是這樣我們都是依法處理嘛"},{"start":231.482,"end":257.87,"text":"我這依法處理在哪?可以執行你就會執行是不是這樣目前那個整個一個死刑的一個一個憲判律師死刑是合憲的嘛齁那但是如果說有沒有受刑能力現在還在審議中嘛這個檢討重點還在審議中如果有你就會執行就對了這個就依法處理啊依法處理是你你買啊問啦你要或不要這個個案的問題齁那個還要再經過審議這算個案好沒關係"},{"start":262.423,"end":268.385,"text":"副長你有說陳啟毅人已經遭處理了人還要再過來對不對目前的話是有專案小組在做一個你說人還要再過來嗎這個研判研判來你的研判可能不對來我請書長你知道我一向對警察很有信心的是這個人還要再過來"},{"start":290.437,"end":305.274,"text":"他憑你的能力,他是沒有辦法脫出你的強重心尤其我對於平時警察局的扮演,我是非常有信心的就對了有過去的厭倦這樣下來,你所掌握的端竊又有在說嗎?"},{"start":311.817,"end":319.331,"text":"現在的訊息各方面都有啦那我們現在還在查證當中我的情報說他在外南啦"},{"start":322.307,"end":343.247,"text":"委員 現在印尼專業小組還在做 印尼這牽涉到偵查中的這個案件這哪有偵查中 這偵查中 人去我找去啊我們在這種這個 法覽監管有那個互助嗎有 有互助 有互助 我們有派聯絡管理現在監管有在互動的像菲律賓一樣嘛"},{"start":347.182,"end":375.662,"text":"沒有啦,那個當然有國家有的,也是有的都有補助啦那他如果遭遇大陸就沒有了啊大陸現在陪我們都回去啦,是不是?沒有,我們也是有一些會再去尋求這些的一些互助,不是全部都斷啦人心是在外面啦,我的推遲有準嗎?我看這是委員你自己的看法啦喔,這樣喔?所以你人家還在台灣就對了啦這個保安官進,張醫師都在那裡在三庭"},{"start":378.25,"end":404.928,"text":"不一定啦在南方不一定啦都不一定都不一定抓得到嗎我相信抓得到喔 多久的時間我看這個要喊時間 委員你給我們一個空間一個月一個月抓不到 你算漏氣我們盡量做啦不是啦 真的啊我相信你的領域 只要在國內啊到今天你已經兩星期了嗯"},{"start":406.909,"end":425.354,"text":"不可能允許警察叫警政署一個日過來的人兩星期在這裡就沒有了這違背我對警察的認定了對不對是有信心嗎有信心嗎1個月1個月是有夠靈了1個月加進程兩星期就夠半月了1個人嫌疑中台吞打我們這麼多費工錢的嫌疑犯"},{"start":436.976,"end":446.378,"text":"可遭取遭離婚禮的獎項過半月這件事有多嚴重呢?他還沒熱情呢?對不對?各位,我請那個指揮中心的指揮官來指揮官,我請教你,打詐這個病態升級這麼久了,你今天說你有兩個身份了"},{"start":466.294,"end":475.578,"text":"我們的犯罪受理如何?這裏面有吃人及沒吃人的嗎?部長你請坐啦,這中間你比較無啦你不是智慧公啊?沒有啦,我來回答一下啦,我回答一下,因為打詐的這個儀表板現在我們在處理嘛,現在一天啦,一天差不多都在四億左右啦"},{"start":491.994,"end":499.982,"text":"就是案件發生在五百件到六百件,一天的財損大概四億左右平常七月份,七月份案件的財損大概有一百一十億一年就差不多剩五億了"},{"start":515.76,"end":525.387,"text":"我看 鄉親聽到這事實是都白痴老白痴所以說這陣是一個...這陣是一個...有哪是一個...因為我們在這要討論的說你這個平台要呈現真實的數字啦對 是真實的數字因為裡面有勝案到沒勝好 來 從這個數字出來剛才市長說你在報告說這五席裡面有外南的、菲律賓的"},{"start":546.991,"end":550.273,"text":"跟我人的相較多,我有泰國的,這裡是實際參與立場的案件,那裡是包括提供中和給詐欺集團,都有算了"},{"start":562.074,"end":579.82,"text":"這就是有抓到的案件啦你不用想說有抓到的嘛好來一百十一年就有三百幾個啦三百八十幾個一百十二年七百三十幾個我知道那三十二萬塊的啦阿沒有抓到的所以說有一些沒抓到的就是藥膏有一些再來這裡移工他的口罪金管會敢來金管會拜託會來"},{"start":589.744,"end":601.767,"text":"我感覺你們這個平台就都沒有方向在那裡來我...順便我請教你喔,一個移工進來,一個月薪水合理說應該多少錢?差不多在兩萬多...三萬不超過了喔?不超過三萬給你算加班三萬通是不是可以把這個金管...金管費就說...我現在說的這個考則房提供的是包括違法的"},{"start":619.656,"end":626.138,"text":"逃逸的、逃逸的這些包括合法的已經出境了、考測還在的。」金管委你知不知道?"},{"start":628.303,"end":652.758,"text":"委員好 有關於這個部分我們已經有跟移民署有借介資料也就是說如果外籍移工已經有出境或者收容等這些資訊銀行可以查知得到那如果銀行查到這些外籍移工已經這個帳戶已經沒有薪資進來可是卻有異常的資金進入他可以做相關的管控您很被動 很被動"},{"start":655.776,"end":660.298,"text":"遏止移工及青少年淪為詐騙集團工具．及打詐四法遏止移工及青少年淪為詐騙集團工具．及打詐四法"},{"start":679.551,"end":706.821,"text":"甚至他想要來接受遷還,我參集票就不賣!然後我把我的帳戶又賣一倍!」你知不知道有這個情形?就是說如果這個人已經不在國內可是帳戶有異常的資金管的進出金管會這邊喔,是這樣喔不要有這個官僚的心態啦我感覺因為你們都會想說想要幫忙不夠積極啦不夠積極啦"},{"start":709.537,"end":736.427,"text":"能不能設定就研議啊你正常你的薪水不會超過三萬假如這些列管的移工外籍移工的帳號他每個月進出一禮拜譬如說超過十到十五萬這就異常了嘛你是薪水的五倍如果這樣就把這個他作為警示低度"},{"start":737.386,"end":746.533,"text":"的警示或是中度的警示賬號的時候,搞乎競證書這處理下去,很快就可以發覺這裡是有詐欺或沒有詐欺,甚至會讓詐欺案件減少很多,你們有這樣考慮嗎?"},{"start":755.538,"end":772.143,"text":"同意委員的說法不過這個部分這個金額要怎麼設定就是由各銀行他會去看相關資金的進出來做相關的處理他可以停止他的交易也可以來做圈存做凍結現在我們在這裡就是要討論這個結構出來我告訴你譬如他三萬他不是來做生意的他是來吃頭肉的"},{"start":779.817,"end":789.403,"text":"這套路他不是要做生意一個月基本薪酬不會超過3萬如果這樣他一個月匯入有10萬、15萬譬如說我們自己15萬因為你如果只有15萬額度一般詐欺集團不會用因為他用了他付出一個代價收到15萬就緊死了嘛"},{"start":802.861,"end":814.626,"text":"我說這樣你有理解這個情形嗎?了解啊如果這樣是不是15萬就已經是青少年五輩了呢?啊我們就把他提出經濟人口交給經濟單位打詐中心他是不是就這樣有辦法嗎?指揮說啊你比這樣我看不懂你不就要跟金管會說一下"},{"start":826.752,"end":841.54,"text":"跟委員報告委員的意見我們列管然後我們把這個部份帶回去打造你列管金管會不配合你們的列管不了嗎?我們列管有跨平台我們有跨平台的列管金管你認為這個金價在10萬至15萬這樣有可恥嗎?署長這樣有可恥嗎?"},{"start":848.872,"end":854.356,"text":"因為詐騙集團他不敢嘛,我給你收一個帳戶來,15萬就去給我們經時啦,他會覺得沒必要,所以這移工的帳戶他就不會去贏了嘛"},{"start":863.215,"end":879.601,"text":"我們現在一般就是說我們台灣鄉親就對了 大家去我們騙家已經都會跌價了所以要再給我拿帳號要什麼 我們警覺信高他才會轉而去找這些移工嘛你移工你要把這個門檻扭起來10萬至15萬合理啦 外國可以處理"},{"start":890.309,"end":915.448,"text":"這些怎麼樣符合這個異常的態樣我們可以再來討論,那回去再做相關的討論你報告,演繹一個報告一句話給我好嗎?可以一句話給我具體的做法,我感覺這是不用說太多大合文啦對象下誘,吃到誘,青少吃一口吃不到誘,你臨時吃一口,請一堆人去各國總考路營"},{"start":921.458,"end":925.681,"text":"這移工外籍移工的首級列管"},{"start":942.22,"end":959.024,"text":"報告委員,我們現在就是跟那個警政署這邊有建165聯合風險資料庫,如果有那個通報的話,他只要輸入那個護照號碼,那我們電信業者這邊都會有列管,大概...欸,輸掉啊,越來關案件越多"},{"start":963.67,"end":978.79,"text":"有關發生的案件多少?詐騙的金額多少?有的齁,有的,這案件都當然有關在處理中,中有一些可能有求,沒說完全都做得這麼好,沒完全嘛"},{"start":979.511,"end":1000.8,"text":"沒有全部所以這其實你現在說的這是補完我是覺得最重要的就是在那個廣告平台的訊息堵住源頭不管是外我們今天討論的是外籍移工他的金融廣告平台那就是專門的嘛那應該是在那個平台的源頭堵止住"},{"start":1004.702,"end":1018.199,"text":"那個是一個最大宗的 最大宗就是我們人民不去接受這個訊息 不去接受這個嘛這個藥帳戶啦 手機啦 是要犯下的手段而已啊就是那個最大就是那個訊息要堵住"},{"start":1019.451,"end":1044.619,"text":"堵住你地盤堵住堵得住嗎應該可以堵得住因為這個部分堵得住配合四法部四法部我們要把它廢掉啊你們不要再配合了啦廢掉了我們打詐就去你廢掉打詐就去啊前者已轉啊沒有四法部啊我們就都沒辦法打詐不是這樣啦絕對不是這樣啦對不對四法部給我們拿那麼多錢喔"},{"start":1048.982,"end":1072.888,"text":"只要貼20%的錢,交給經濟署就對了,經濟署絕對做屁比較好,對嗎?你有信心嗎?人家這樣說啦沒有啦,真的啊!修法部,你沒帶沒紙,你要在這裡貼一本書,那六星庭已經對你很感冒了,你都沒在注意你要注意老闆娘的動用啦,修法部準備要包起來啦"},{"start":1076.49,"end":1078.545,"text":"我們下一位請林思明委員發言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":568,"blocks":[["謝委員龍介：（9時31分）感謝主席，請法務部部長及警政署署長。"],["主席：麻煩部長和署長。"],["謝委員龍介：我先請他們兩位上來。部長你好，早安！署長辛苦了！"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["謝委員龍介：請教部長，37個死刑犯中，現在有30個的評議簿已經過期了，沒有保留，我覺得司法院很奇怪，怎麼可能這樣就查不到？不然可以把以前審判的那些法官叫來問問看，是不是都有判死刑？沒有那種不能查的啦！這30個如果不能繼續羈押，部長，要怎麼辦？大法官說可以再押，那是不對的，是違背人權的精神，已經押了那麼久了，對不對？有的已經押了十幾年，這30個如果不能再押，要放出去，我已經在這裡跟你說過了，剛好我們有15個大法官，包括離職的那幾個都算進去，叫他們一個人領養兩個，帶回他們家吃飯、住三個月，豈有此理嘛！對不對？現在問題來了，其中7個有一致判決是死刑的，大概這7個是沒命回中原了！部長，我請教你，什麼時候要執行？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我們會依照憲判字第8號解釋，如果有受刑能力，就可以依法執行。"],["謝委員龍介：有啊！已經在裡面關那麼久了，除非你把他關到瘋了，他們也沒有說裡面有幾個可以執行，問題是在於你要執行嗎？權力在你，變成是你的問題。"],["鄭部長銘謙：依照憲判意旨，現在這37個受刑人，檢察總長還在審……"],["謝委員龍介：那7個可以處理嘛！我跟你說……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個還是要審核，我想就法言法，就以目前來講，最高檢……"],["謝委員龍介：我講給你聽啦！現在要救賴總統、清德兄的民調就只剩下你了，其他沒有人有辦法救他，民進黨這些立法委員沒有一個可以救他，就只剩下你了，如果你執行2個死刑，民調差不多會漲10%，看你要不要信啦！我不會害你，我都幫你們捧場，這7個可以打2個嗎？打2個讓我們看看，彌補人民對大法官釋憲的失望，司法正義在你身上還存在一點點期望，你有想要這樣做嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：當然我們就是……我還是重申，就是現在還在審查、審議中，我們會依照憲判意旨，有受刑能力的我們就會依法執行。剛才委員提到羈押的問題，這些確定死刑定讞的死刑犯，他們現在是收監，不是羈押。"],["謝委員龍介：好，沒關係，可以打你就會打就對了，你的意思是這樣嗎？是不是？可以執行你就會執行，是不是這樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們都是依法處理。"],["謝委員龍介：我知道依法處理，就是可以執行，你就會執行，是不是這樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前整個死刑的憲判意旨，死刑是合憲的，但是有沒有受刑能力，現在還在審議中，檢察總長還在審議中。"],["謝委員龍介：如果有，你會執行就對了？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個就依法處理。"],["謝委員龍介：依法處理，那你是要或不要？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個個案的問題，還要再經過……"],["謝委員龍介：這算個案？好，沒關係。部長，你說過陳啟昱人還在國內，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前是由專案小組在做一個……"],["謝委員龍介：你說人還在國內？"],["鄭部長銘謙：研判，研判啦！"],["謝委員龍介：研判？那你的研判可能不對。來，我請署長。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["謝委員龍介：你知道我一向對警察最有信心，這個人如果還在國內，憑你們的能力，他是沒辦法逃出你的手掌心的，尤其我對刑事警察局的辦案非常有信心……"],["張署長榮興：謝謝委員。"],["謝委員龍介：從過去的業績看下來，根據你所掌握的，陳啟昱還在國內嗎？"],["張署長榮興：現在各方面的訊息都有，我們還在查證當中。"],["謝委員龍介：我的情報是他在越南。"],["張署長榮興：沒有啦！現在專案小組還在追查，而這牽涉到偵查中的案件……"],["謝委員龍介：這哪有偵查中？人都已經跑了……"],["張署長榮興：沒有啦！我們在這種……"],["謝委員龍介：越南跟我們有互助嗎？"],["張署長榮興：有，有互助。"],["謝委員龍介：有互助？"],["張署長榮興：對，我們有派聯絡官在那邊。"],["謝委員龍介：差不多都沒有了吧？現在跟我們比較有互動的，就剩下菲律賓而已。"],["張署長榮興：沒有啦！我們和東南亞很多國家都有互助。"],["謝委員龍介：他如果跑去大陸，那就沒有了啊！大陸現在跟我們都斷了，是不是？"],["張署長榮興：沒有，我們也會再去尋求一些互助，不是全部都斷啦！"],["謝委員龍介：人是不是在越南？我的推測準不準？"],["張署長榮興：我看這是委員你自己的看法。"],["謝委員龍介：喔！這樣喔！"],["張署長榮興：嗯！"],["謝委員龍介：所以人還在臺灣？"],["張署長榮興：這個部分我們專案小組還在追查。"],["謝委員龍介：在山上嗎？"],["張署長榮興：不一定啦！"],["謝委員龍介：在南部？"],["張署長榮興：不一定啦！"],["謝委員龍介：都不一定？"],["張署長榮興：對，都不一定。"],["謝委員龍介：抓得到嗎？"],["張署長榮興：我想應該抓得到。"],["謝委員龍介：喔，好，多久的時間？"],["張署長榮興：如果要限時間，請委員給我們一個空間……"],["謝委員龍介：一個月？一個月抓不到，你算是漏氣！"],["張署長榮興：我們儘量做啦！"],["謝委員龍介：不是啦！真的，我相信你的能力，到今天已經兩個禮拜了，只要人在國內，不可能刑事警察局、警政署掌握不到，這違背我對警察的認知，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：是。"],["謝委員龍介：有信心嗎？"],["張署長榮興：有信心。"],["謝委員龍介：一個月？一個月算夠寬了！"],["張署長榮興：我們儘量。"],["謝委員龍介：一個月加上之前兩個禮拜，將近一個半月了，一個貪污這麼多血汗錢的重大嫌疑犯，可以跑出去，離開你的掌握一個半月，這算有夠嚴重的，他還沒有槍，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["謝委員龍介：一個月啦！我請教指揮中心的指揮官。指揮官，我請教你，打詐平臺成立這麼久，今天你說你有兩個身分，我們的犯罪數字怎麼樣？來，這裡面有分有吃案跟沒吃案的。","署長，你不是指揮官啊！"],["張署長榮興：沒有，我來回答一下……"],["謝委員龍介：怎麼會這樣？"],["張署長榮興：因為打詐的這些儀表板現在是我們在處理，現在一天差不多都在4億左右，案件發生差不多是500件至600件，一天的財損差不多4億左右。"],["謝委員龍介：一天4億？"],["張署長榮興：比如7月份案件的財損大概有110億，8月份……"],["謝委員龍介：所以一年就差不多1,500億了。"],["張署長榮興：一千多億，現在……"],["謝委員龍介：老實說，鄉親如果聽到這個都會流眼淚。"],["張署長榮興：所以現在是一個……"],["謝委員龍介：你這個平臺要呈現真實的數字啦！"],["張署長榮興：絕對是真實的數字。"],["謝委員龍介：因為裡面有成案跟沒有成案的。好，針對真實的數字，剛才指揮官你報告時提到這些外籍移工有越南的、有菲律賓的、有泰國的，其中越南的最多，這些是實際參與有抓到的案件，還是包括提供帳號給詐欺集團的都有算進去？"],["張署長榮興：這是有抓到的案件，比方111年是三百八十幾個，112年是七百三十幾個……"],["謝委員龍介：我知道，那個跟數字沒關係啦！"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["謝委員龍介：那沒抓到的呢？"],["張署長榮興：所以說有一些沒抓到的，就是還有一些……"],["謝委員龍介：再來是關於這些移工的帳戶，今天金管會有來嗎？拜託金管會來說明一下。我覺得你們這個平臺都沒有橫向的聯繫。署長，我請教你，一個移工進來，一個月的薪水合理來說應該是多少錢？"],["張署長榮興：差不多是2萬5,000到3萬之間，不會超過3萬。"],["謝委員龍介：就算加上加班也是3萬出頭。"],["張署長榮興：是。"],["謝委員龍介：我現在說這些帳戶被拿去用的是包括違法的、逃逸的，也包括合法的，已經出境了，帳戶卻還在，金管會知道嗎？"],["林副局長志吉：委員好。關於這個部分，我們已經有跟移民署介接資料，也就是說，如果外籍移工已經出境或者收容等，這些資訊銀行可以查知得到，如果銀行查到這些外籍移工的帳戶已經沒有薪資進來，可是卻有異常的資金進入，它可以做相關的管控。"],["謝委員龍介：你們這樣很被動，遣送的你們會把他列為警示帳戶，沒有遭受遣送的合法移工的帳戶都還繼續存在，這就是詐欺集團最愛的、甜蜜蜜啦！他來工作逃逸之後，他的帳號還能用，這實在是不可思議！甚至他想要來接受遣返，他連機票都不用買，然後他把他的帳戶再賣一次，你知道有這種情形嗎？"],["林副局長志吉：如果人已經不在國內，可是帳戶有異常的資金進出，其實銀行可以做一些處理。"],["謝委員龍介：金管會不要有官僚心態，雖然你們都會想說要幫忙，但是不夠積極啦！正常情況下薪水不會超過3萬，假如這一些列管外籍移工的帳號每個月進出的金額超過10到15萬，這就異常了嘛！這相當於薪水的五倍，如果這樣的話，就把他列為低度警示或是中度警示帳號交給警政署，從這些資料查下去，很快就可以發覺到底有詐欺還是沒有詐欺，甚至會讓詐欺案件減少很多，你們有這樣考慮嗎？"],["林副局長志吉：同意委員的說法，不過這個部分的金額要怎麼設定，就是由各銀行去看相關資金的進出來做相關的處理，它可以停止他的交易，也可以做圈存、做凍結……"],["謝委員龍介：我知道啦，但現在我們在這裡就是要討論一個結果出來。我跟你說，他不是來做生意的，他是來上班的，上班的話，一個月的基本薪資不會超過3萬，如果一個月匯進他的帳號有10萬、15萬……譬如我們給它訂15萬好了，如果只有15萬的額度，一般詐欺集團不會用啦！因為他用了就要付出代價，收到15萬就警示了嘛！我這樣說，你了解這個精神嗎？"],["林副局長志吉：了解。"],["謝委員龍介：15萬已經是他薪水的五倍，這樣我們就給他提出警示，然後交給警政單位、打詐中心，請問指揮官，這樣會不會有幫助？你應該要跟金管會說一下啊！"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，委員的意見我們列管，然後我們把這個部分帶回去打詐中心列管。"],["謝委員龍介：金管會不配合，你們就列管不了啊！"],["馬次長士元：報告委員，金管會會配合，我們列管有跨平臺，我們有跨平臺的列管機制。"],["謝委員龍介：把金額訂為10萬至15萬，你認為這樣有沒有科學？署長，這樣有沒有科學？"],["張署長榮興：有科學。"],["謝委員龍介：這樣有科學？"],["張署長榮興：有科學。"],["謝委員龍介：因為詐欺集團他「不夠工」嘛，我跟你收一個帳戶來，15萬就被警示了，他會覺得白費力氣，所以這些移工的帳戶他就不會去用了。現在臺灣鄉親被騙到都已經有警覺，如果要再跟大家拿帳號什麼的，因為我們警覺性高，所以他才會轉而去找這些移工嘛！你要把移工這個門檻拉高為10萬至15萬，這樣合理啦！請問多久可以處理？"],["林副局長志吉：怎麼樣符合異常的態樣，我們可以再來討論，回去之後可以再做相關的討論。"],["謝委員龍介：你們研議一個報告一個月給我好嗎？"],["林副局長志吉：可以。"],["謝委員龍介：一個月給我具體的做法，我覺得這不需要太多大學問，只要對症下藥！吃對藥，青草吃一葉；吃錯藥，你人參吃一石，請一堆人去「扣扣傱」有什麼用呢？","還有就是手機，這些外籍移工的手機我們現在有列管嗎？NCC有來嗎？請問指揮官，這可以列管嗎？"],["馬次長士元：我們有列管。"],["謝委員龍介：你們有列管？"],["黃副處長天陽：報告委員，我們現在跟警政署有建置165聯合風險資料庫，如果有通報的話，只要輸入護照號碼，電信業者這邊都會有列管，大概……"],["謝委員龍介：署長，越列管案件越多是怎麼樣？哪有越列管發生的案件越多、詐騙的金額越多的？"],["張署長榮興：有的案件都……當然列管在處理當中，但是中間有一些可能有……並不是完全都有掌握，不完全、沒有全部嘛！其實委員你現在說的是一個部分，我覺得最重要的是在廣告平臺的訊息堵住源頭啦！我們今天討論的是外籍移工的金融帳戶……"],["謝委員龍介：你說廣告平臺就是全面的了嘛！是全面詐騙嘛！"],["張署長榮興：對，應該是把那個平臺的源頭都堵住，那是最大宗的。就是我們的人民不會接收到這樣的訊息，至於帳戶或手機，其實是他要犯法的手段而已，最重要的是訊息要堵住，你上面堵住，我們後面……"],["謝委員龍介：堵得住嗎？"],["張署長榮興：應該可以堵得住，因為這個部分我們……"],["謝委員龍介：堵得住？"],["張署長榮興：配合數發部在……"],["謝委員龍介：數發部我們要把它廢掉了啊！"],["張署長榮興：沒有啦，廢掉……"],["謝委員龍介：不要再配合了啦！"],["張署長榮興：廢掉的話，我們的打詐就糟糕了！"],["謝委員龍介：權責移轉啊！沒有數發部我們就都沒辦法打詐？絕對不是這樣啦，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：我們現在……"],["謝委員龍介：數發部給我們拿那麼多錢，只要把其中的20%交給警政署，警政署絕對做得比它好，對不對？你有信心嗎？"],["張署長榮興：不要這樣講啦！"],["謝委員龍介：真的啊！你無緣無故來這裡替數發部背書，賴清德已經對它很感冒了，你都沒有在注意？你要注意老市長的動向啦！數發部準備要包起來了。"],["張署長榮興：謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請林思銘委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":312,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-15","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","謝龍介","林思銘","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","羅智強","陳培瑜","林淑芬","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","沈發惠","傅崐萁"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院、法務部部長、內政部部長、內政部警政署署長、內政部移民署署長、勞動部、數位\n發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位\n列席就「如何遏止移工及青少年淪為詐騙集團工具，及打詐四法施行後相關子法及配套措施進度\n與具體成效之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310401_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}