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非常好 第二個保留啊國外學歷採任原則 讚不讚成"},{"start":161.819,"end":186.416,"text":"這個我們保留國外協議裁判當然我一再重複我們絕對採用最高的要求絕對採用最高的標準來做國外協議的裁判現在問題來了因為這件事情考選部非常的困擾為什麼考選部非常的困擾2017年1月1號我們開始加嚴管制"},{"start":190.215,"end":218.003,"text":"結果到2022年6月22號上一屆國會依司法公布了三項附帶決議要放寬引發軒然大波所以在2022年6月22號三讀通過那三個附帶決議的時候在考試院發生什麼事情在考試院發生的事情是衛福部派去的代表我不確定他是不是受到那個附帶決議的影響"},{"start":219.554,"end":248.451,"text":"他跑去考選部開會的時候他開會因為考選部基本上他們的立場是他尊重主管機關衛福部的政策立場考選部把整個嚴格都寫得很清楚了結果你們2022年6月30號第43次的審議會議以後你們同意不再適用國外大學或學院醫學系科學歷才的原則"},{"start":250.475,"end":277.88,"text":"從這個時候開始放寬了部長這個基本的事實你有沒有掌握首先跟委員報告我們不會根據互待決議是啦是啦我吃到嘛所以我在一樣一樣放給你看嘛按照醫師法修法的以後的一個應該進行的據我了解是我的掌握是這樣子"},{"start":278.28,"end":301.818,"text":"要回到2017年那時候的標準嘛就是你剛所講最嚴格的標準嘛但我今天為什麼要藉由這個機會去質詢我怕部長人事情忙啊沒有辦法掌握這些基本的事實啊所以我特別上來跟院長報告啊2022年6月30號的時候你們派去考選部的代表說什麼啊"},{"start":302.939,"end":327.402,"text":"說沒有再要用那個財政原則阿要放寬阿結果來來來部長你看一下2022年11月23號行政院韓立法院復旦決議我們不執行喔這個是行政院直接回韓立法院因為那時候引發軒然大波大家都來抗議了嘛抗議完了以後阿接下來就看不懂了"},{"start":328.464,"end":342.433,"text":"行政院跟立法院講這個附帶決議我們不會執行啊意思就是什麼學歷的採任不會放寬嘛但問題是你們到44次會議的時候啊你們衛福部為什麼沒有派人去考選部開會喔跟有關於醫師考試採任原則這麼重要的事情衛福部竟然一個人都沒有去"},{"start":357.335,"end":358.298,"text":"部長這件事你知道嗎"},{"start":364.014,"end":390.651,"text":"這是2022的時候因為我不在部裡面沒關係部長你回去查一下一個禮拜之內書面回覆為什麼那時候沒有派人去沒有派人去的結果是什麼我跟院長報跟部長報告沒有派人去的結果就是啊之前放寬了44次喔雖然附帶決議不執行喔繼續放寬到第45次有派人去了有派人去一句話都沒講"},{"start":391.943,"end":409.609,"text":"一句話都沒有講沒有跟考試院考選部講說那個附帶決議沒有人要執行欸結果又按照43次的繼續放寬從43、44、45附帶決議都已經不執行了結果衛福部去考選部完全沒有表達這樣的意見導致繼續的放寬違反部長剛剛所講一定用最嚴格的標準"},{"start":423.221,"end":442.336,"text":"這個是在玩兩面手法嗎明著講一套背後在放水嗎部長可不可以回去了解一下為什麼會發生這種狀況接下來呢接下來要不要回復到2017年那個時候的嚴格採任標準這個是現在大家關心的事情"},{"start":443.311,"end":455.17,"text":"這部分的意思是可以說明一下我們把那個原則已經修到議事法施行細則最近會公布所以就會用議事法施行細則是現在你們公告的議事法施行細則一之一嗎"},{"start":455.987,"end":473.846,"text":"不是那個是公告的草案那個草案的部分我們要在那等於是預告程序所以我們要公告的部分的話會採認那個已經把那個原則的部分修到我們預計修的疑似法實行細則第13年就維持2017年一模一樣的標準嘛"},{"start":474.286,"end":488.957,"text":"文字有一些些的微調因為那個原則裡面有一些些文字不經不顧那個文字啊會後可不可以給我因為有的時候魔鬼就藏在細節裡啊你微調以後的文字是不是有維持之前的標準這個是大家現在在關心的嘛"},{"start":490.386,"end":506.402,"text":"那一個在程序中所以我們會覺得是說我們如果要公告之前我們其實是公告的那個同時可以送到委辦因為這是程序問題對 這個你們的行政程序我尊重我最後只講一句話"},{"start":507.683,"end":520.5,"text":"拜託這次不要再引發軒然大波了吵了好幾年了從2017年2022那時候在立法院偷渡那個附帶決議引發軒然大波搞到行政院發函說附帶決議不執行這很嚴重的事情"},{"start":524.705,"end":548.22,"text":"那已經產生了這麼大的爭議希望這一次要慎重維持部長剛剛的承諾維持最嚴的嚴格那同時文字在你們程序上面可以的時候給所有的委員大家都知道不要再產生這樣的爭議可以嗎一定我們一定會最大的誠意來解決剛剛委員所講的長期的一個爭議最嚴格的方式來審查最嚴格嘛大家都聽到了OK謝謝"},{"start":554.056,"end":554.784,"text":"好謝謝王委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":712,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時48分）謝謝主席，有請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好，上次質詢的時候提到專科護理師夜間津貼獎勵的問題，你也在這邊做出了很莊嚴的承諾。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["黃委員國昌：也感謝衛福部到我辦公室來說明了以後就依照我的要求，有發函讓大家知道，專科護理師只要落入在你們那個範圍，有夜間服勤的事實，大家都可以領得到錢，沒有大小眼、沒有差別對待，這個很重要，"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["黃委員國昌：這個事情我先謝謝部長，但下一個問題是函是發下去了，大家現在在擔心醫院是不是會真的按照你發的函來辦理，所以你可不可以跟大家宣示一下，醫院就是應該要確實遵守？"],["邱部長泰源：醫院要……"],["黃委員國昌：宣示一下，醫院要按照衛福部的函確實遵守，我現在是在做球給你耶！"],["邱部長泰源：OK，我在這邊也希望所有的醫院一定要按照衛福部文的規定確實去發放。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好，非常好！來，接下來這個禮拜天本土小牙醫聯盟一些民間團體要提出他們具體的訴求，第一個是撤回24億假偏鄉計畫，衛福部不得開後門。衛福部支不支持？"],["邱部長泰源：我跟委員報告，這個「24億假偏鄉」這樣的名詞是錯誤的，這的確就是偏鄉計畫，因為這個偏鄉計畫已經從第一期、第二期……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有啦，我們不要受限於標題，因為內容我其實也貼給你看了。"],["邱部長泰源：好，我直接再度回答，我們的優化偏鄉醫療經費第二期的牙醫這個部分，只是針對55個現在沒有牙醫的鄉鎮，我們鼓勵本國的醫師，當然是有執照的，絕對不是密醫……"],["黃委員國昌：是，所以絕對不會沒有執照嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：絕對！第一個，絕對不會沒有執照，沒有執照我們醫師法不會讓他去執業。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好，非常好。第二個、保留國外學歷採認原則，贊不贊成？"],["邱部長泰源：保留國外學歷採認原則，當然我一再重複我們絕對採用最高的要求，嚴格來做國外學歷的採認。"],["黃委員國昌：絕對採用最高的標準嘛！現在問題來了，因為這件事情考選部非常的困擾，為什麼考選部非常的困擾？2017年1月1號我們開始加嚴管制，結果到2022年6月22日，上一屆國會醫師法公布了三項附帶決議要放寬，引發軒然大波，所以在2022年6月22日三讀通過那三個附帶決議的時候，在考試院發生什麼事情？在考試院發生的事情是衛福部派去的代表，我不確定他是不是受到那個附帶決議的影響，他跑去考選部開會的時候，因為考選部基本的立場是尊重主管機關衛福部的政策立場，考選部把整個沿革都寫得很清楚了，結果你們2022年6月30日第43次的審議會議以後，你們同意不再適用國外大學或學院醫學系科學歷採認原則，從這個時候開始放寬。部長，這個基本的事實你有沒有掌握？"],["邱部長泰源：我首先跟委員報告，我們不會根據附帶決議去……"],["黃委員國昌：是啦、是啦，我知道嘛，所以我在一樣一樣放給你看嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：是按照醫事法修法以後應該進行的，據我了解掌握的是這樣子。"],["黃委員國昌：要回到2017年那時候的標準嘛，就是你剛才所講最嚴格的標準嘛，但我今天為什麼要藉由這個機會去質詢？我怕部長事情忙，沒有辦法掌握這些基本的事實，所以我特別上來跟部長報告，2022年6月30日的時候你們派去考選部的代表說什麼啊？說沒有要再用那個採認原則，要放寬啊！結果，來、來、來，部長你看一下，2022年11月23日行政院函立法院說附帶決議我們不執行喔，這個是行政院直接回函立法院，因為那時候引發軒然大波，大家都來抗議了嘛，抗議完了以後接下來就看不懂了，行政院跟立法院講：這個附帶決議我們不會執行啦！意思就是什麼？學歷的採認不會放寬嘛！但問題是到第44次會議的時候你們衛福部為什麼沒有派人去？考選部開會喔，有關於醫師考試採認原則這麼重要的事情，衛福部竟然一個人都沒有去，部長，這件事你知道嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：這是2022的時候，因為我不在部裡面。"],["黃委員國昌：沒關係，部長回去查一下，一個禮拜之內書面回覆為什麼那時候沒有派人去。"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有派人去的結果是什麼？我跟部長報告，沒有派人去的結果就是之前放寬了，第44次喔，雖然附帶決議不執行，繼續放寬！到第45次有派人去了，有派人去但一句話都沒講、一句話都沒有講！沒有跟考試院考選部講那個附帶決議沒有要執行耶，結果又按照第43次的繼續放寬，從43、44、45，附帶決議都已經不執行了，結果衛福部去考選部完全沒有表達這樣的意見，導致繼續放寬，違反部長剛剛所講一定用最嚴格的標準，這個是在玩兩面手法嗎？明著講一套、背後在放水嗎？部長可不可以回去了解一下為什麼會發生這種狀況？"],["邱部長泰源：好的。"],["黃委員國昌：接下來要不要回復到2017年那個時候的嚴格採認標準？這個是現在大家關心的事情。"],["邱部長泰源：這部分醫事司可以說明一下。"],["劉司長越萍：我們已經把原則修到醫師法施行細則，最近會公布，所以就會用醫師法施行細則。"],["黃委員國昌：是現在你們公告的醫師法施行細則一之一嗎？"],["劉司長越萍：不是，那個是公告的草案，那個草案的部分等於是預告程序，所以我們要公告的部分會採認那個，已經把那個原則的部分修到我們預計修的醫師法施行細則第十三條裡面。"],["黃委員國昌：就維持2017年一模一樣的標準嘛！"],["劉司長越萍：文字有一些些的微調，因為那個原則裡面有一些些文字不精準部分。"],["黃委員國昌：那個文字會後可不可以給我？因為有的時候魔鬼就藏在細節裡，你微調以後的文字是不是有維持之前的標準？這個是大家現在在關心的嘛。"],["劉司長越萍：那個在程序中，所以如果要公告之前，我們其實在公告的那個同時可以送到委辦，因為這是程序問題。以上。"],["黃委員國昌：對，你們的行政程序我尊重，我最後只講一句話，拜託，這次不要再引發軒然大波了，吵了好幾年了！從2017年，2022年那時候在立法院偷渡那個附帶決議引發軒然大波，搞到行政院發函說那附帶決議不執行，這是很嚴重的事情耶，已經產生了這麼大的爭議，希望這一次要慎重，維持部長剛剛的承諾，維持最嚴格的標準，同時在你們程序上面可以的時候，把文字給所有的委員大家都知道，不要再產生這樣的爭議，可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：好的，我們一定會以最大的誠意來解決剛剛委員所講長期的爭議。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：同時我們也會用最嚴格的方式來審查。"],["黃委員國昌：最嚴格嘛，大家都聽到了，OK，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃委員，謝謝部長。","接續請賴士葆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-10","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","盧縣一","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","黃秀芳","廖偉翔","黃國昌","賴士葆","邱議瑩","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","涂權吉","吳春城","羅智強","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","王正旭","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩"],"page_start":55,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算案關於衛生福利部主管預算（公務預算及基金）（僅詢\n答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00008"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}