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檔案剛才為什麼會跑掉"},{"start":145.199,"end":153.165,"text":"超高齡社會在41天就來臨對這樣來臨的一個社會你覺得他是一個悲慘世界"},{"start":173.36,"end":199.592,"text":"還是一個美麗新世界我們可以創造美麗新世界所以你認為他可以嘲笑美麗新世界一定要這樣做為什麼一定要這樣子嘛對不對沒得選擇一定要這樣子嘛齁因為為什麼要問這個問題喔這一個的你的信心跟你的想像會決定你的政策你的解方是如果你把它當作是悲慘世界你提出來就是悲慘解方"},{"start":200.592,"end":203.895,"text":"對哪一種思維?那你覺得我們現在政府普遍的大概都把他當作什麼?悲慘世界?"},{"start":215.871,"end":216.731,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":241.56,"end":258.418,"text":"因為這個少子高齡化社會定型影響層面很多啦那這個衛福部在這裡面扮演非常重要的角色不管是少子化不管是高齡化都是你們衛福部的事情因為其他部位都不想管"},{"start":260.795,"end":273.422,"text":"大家一起努力大家一起努力都沒有在管我剛才質詢文化部回來他們就整個就變一千萬而已而且還是做什麼那個就是各部會就是覺得60歲以後"},{"start":275.043,"end":275.243,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":307.418,"end":328.987,"text":"總之呢是不是要請衛福部我們現在整個基本上的認知就把這高齡者視為叫引法族為什麼要證明因為引法族每天包括大家討論的就是臥床的問題就是醫院的問題就是一種社會負債的問題安養晚年特殊對待"},{"start":330.697,"end":337.224,"text":"那衛福部可不可以把它翻轉成為你就停留在那邊我時間快到了你不要再變來變去了"},{"start":341.582,"end":365.219,"text":"那個變成壯世代想像他有30年的健康餘命這叫做美麗新世界30年健康餘命我們現在可以為他們做什麼我們應該要怎麼設計包括整個社福的一個的機構他們需要只脫離生理安全的需求而渴望自我實現他們希望能夠促進世代的循環"},{"start":367.268,"end":381.046,"text":"需要精彩的第三人聲OK這個就是OK所以呢好我前面我也跟那個講一下就是上個禮拜資訊月"},{"start":382.389,"end":411.09,"text":"我壯世代跟速發部合作辦了一個因為資訊院通常都是年輕人在玩電腦的地方我今年跟速發部合作辦了一個叫壯世代董資樂園董資訊的樂園而且你那個名稱要活潑一點董資董資因為他們有董資券嘛政府都有發董資券所以叫董資樂園你知道創造了什麼爆發壯世代人潮"},{"start":412.737,"end":433.601,"text":"所謂的你們所謂的銀髮族大批的銀髮族大概有幾萬人進入資訊業每一個人玩得不亦樂乎所以呢你看抒發部都可以這樣做衛福部可以這樣做嗎系各部會為什麼如果你過去都叫做樂齡什麼資訊區有人要去啦"},{"start":437.828,"end":455.463,"text":"為什麼你改變他一個身份當然當你在設計者當你把他當作勒領的時候你所做的一些規劃也就是會朝勒領的方向你把他當作壯士你就會朝壯士的方向去設計那參與者也是一樣"},{"start":456.892,"end":471.827,"text":"改變一點身份改變一點思維這就叫美好的新世界這叫做美好新世界它會創造很多我以前衛福部我們是不是可以一起努力來推動所以最後"},{"start":477.469,"end":487.296,"text":"最後一點就是我現在在推動撞促法撞促在政策的產業發展促進法我們要重要的一點"},{"start":488.904,"end":507.44,"text":"就是要做一個雙軌制雙軌制的一個現在除了照護性的政策之外是不是需要一個發展性的政策因為照護性的政策大概只能現在照顧16%的這個失能需要健康長照照顧的但是我們有84%龐大的這些"},{"start":511.403,"end":522.834,"text":"你完全沒有政策是不是可以發展壯世代的政策成為一個在我們未來不管在做社福的思維當中一個雙軌的一個制度這個請問部長你讚不讚成"},{"start":524.757,"end":548.593,"text":"創世代您的任期是相當的大那相關的年齡層其實我們每一個年齡層其實從出生以後到安老到善終所有的生命歷程我們都有需要照顧的任務所以請放心在創世代所包圍的範圍其實相關的一個健康照顧的政策都會有"},{"start":548.953,"end":549.133,"text":"謝謝吳委員繼續我們請"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1035,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（12時44分）好，謝謝主席，我們有請部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["吳委員春城：部長好。看到你就很開心，因為像笑面佛一樣。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝。"],["吳委員春城：現在這樣的環境，很需要你這樣子的人。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝。"],["吳委員春城：帶給大家信心。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員指教。"],["吳委員春城：剛才涂委員就講到樂生療養院為什麼要改名，對不對？這要正名，正名很重要，對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["吳委員春城：部長，你有很開放的思維，不會僵持在那個地方，所以你有同意說會改成「樂生醫院」嘛！這真的好很多了。"],["邱部長泰源：那個就多方考量啦！"],["吳委員春城：多方考量？"],["邱部長泰源：也有文資、文史的歷史。它本身現在就是醫院嘛！對不對？有醫院的功能。"],["吳委員春城：對，它本來就有醫院的功能，所以正名很重要。所以部長你願意、你認同把老人、銀髮族也正名為壯世代嗎？「老人」你覺得很好嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：老人如果能夠很強壯，是我們很希望的事情。"],["吳委員春城：當然老人都同樣，但是你要給他一個名字啊！就像樂生一樣，「療養院」人家會覺得它是神經病醫院，是嗎？好啦，現在我們再往後面談。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["吳委員春城：當機了是不是？有阿共仔的陰謀！主席，時間上幫我停一下。不是這一個，下一頁呢？不對！你用到舊的是不是？檔案為什麼會跑掉？被蓋掉？為什麼會蓋牌？這是「阿共仔的陰謀」。是什麼原因再講，第一次發生這種問題。好，沒關係！我先談，你一邊解決。","部長，請教你，超高齡社會再41天就要來臨。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["吳委員春城：對即將來臨的社會，你覺得它是一個悲慘世界，還是一個美麗新世界？"],["邱部長泰源：我們可以創造美麗新世界。"],["吳委員春城：所以你認為它可以朝向美麗新世界？"],["邱部長泰源：一定要這樣做。"],["吳委員春城：一定要這樣子嘛！對不對？沒得選擇，一定要這樣子嘛！為什麼要問這個問題？你的信心跟你的想像會決定你的政策、你的解方。如果你把它當作是悲慘世界，你提出來的就是悲慘解方，是嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：是，會有這種傾向，哪一種思維就會往哪一方面。"],["吳委員春城：對。那你覺得我們現在政府普遍的大概都把它當作什麼？悲慘世界？"],["邱部長泰源：政府？當然我們在追求健康臺灣、幸福社會，就是希望在高齡化的社會，我們所有的人能夠活得老、活得好、到處跑。"],["吳委員春城：因為少子高齡化社會定型影響層面很多，衛福部在這裡面扮演非常重要的角色。"],["邱部長泰源：是，責無旁貸。"],["吳委員春城：不管是高齡化，都是你們衛福部的事情，因為其他部會都不想管。"],["邱部長泰源：大家一起努力啦！"],["吳委員春城：都沒有在管啊！我剛才質詢文化部回來，他們整個就編1,000萬元而已啊！而且還是做什麼……各部會就是覺得60歲以後就沒用了，隨便應付就好了啦！"],["邱部長泰源：我也六十幾歲了。"],["吳委員春城：你六十幾歲，基本上你現在也是要自求多福，政府沒人要管你。但是這個越來越多、問題越嚴重，衛福部如果繼續這樣，一定會崩潰，你也是承受不住的。","總之，我們現在整個基本上的認知就是把高齡者視為銀髮族。為什麼要正名？因為包括大家討論的，銀髮族每天就是臥床的問題，就是醫院的問題，就是一種社會負債的問題，安養晚年，特殊對待。衛福部可不可以把它翻轉變成壯世代？想像他有30年的健康餘命，這叫做美麗新世界。30年健康餘命，我們現在可以為他們做什麼？我們應該要怎麼設計？包括整個社福的機構，他們需要脫離生理安全的需求，渴望自我實現；他們希望能夠促進世代的循環，需要精彩的第三人生。","我也跟部長講一下，上個禮拜資訊月，我壯世代跟數發部合作，因為資訊月通常都是年輕人在玩電腦的地方，我今年跟數發部合作，辦了一個叫「壯世代懂資樂園」，懂資訊的樂園。而且你那個名稱要活潑一點，懂資、懂資，因為他們有動滋券嘛！政府都有發動滋券，所以叫「懂資樂園」。你知道創造了什麼？爆發壯世代人潮，就是你們所謂的銀髮族。大批的銀髮族，大概有幾萬人進入資訊月，每一個人都玩得不亦樂乎。","你看數發部都可以這樣做，衛福部可以這樣做嗎？其實各部會都可以這樣做。過去都叫做什麼樂齡資訊區，沒人要去啦！為什麼？你改變他的一個身分，當你是設計者，當你把他當作樂齡的時候，你所做的一些規劃也就會朝樂齡的方向；你把他當作壯世代，你就會朝壯世代的那個方向去設計。參與者也是一樣，改變一點身分，改變一點思維，這就叫美好的新世界，它會創造很多。我也請衛福部，我們是不是可以一起努力來推動？"],["邱部長泰源：好，這個理念很好。"],["吳委員春城：對。最後一點，就是我現在在推動壯促法，壯世代政策產業發展促進法，重要的一點就是要雙軌制。現在除了照護性的政策之外，是不是需要一個發展性的政策？因為照護性的政策現在大概只能照顧16%的失能、需要長照照顧的，但是我們有84%龐大的樂齡是完全沒有政策的。是不是可以發展壯世代的政策，成為我們未來在做社福的思維當中一個雙軌的制度？這個請問部長贊不贊成？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，有關壯世代，您的range相當地大。我們每一個年齡層，其實從出生以後，到安老、到善終，所有的生命歷程我們都有需要照顧的任務，所以請放心，在壯世代所包括的範圍，其實相關的健康照護政策都會有。"],["吳委員春城：OK。因為這個思維不一樣，照顧者就是要資源，壯世代是要給資源的人，只要政府政策方向的引導。"],["邱部長泰源：對。"],["吳委員春城：不要都從社福的思維，好像大家都是社福資源的一個爭奪戰，事實上壯世代可以減少很多社福的支出跟負擔。"],["邱部長泰源：了解，這個是非常好的方向。"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員。","接續我們請羅智強委員質詢。","稍後等張雅琳委員質詢完再休息20分鐘，她特別要求。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-10","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","盧縣一","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","黃秀芳","廖偉翔","黃國昌","賴士葆","邱議瑩","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","涂權吉","吳春城","羅智強","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","王正旭","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩"],"page_start":55,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算案關於衛生福利部主管預算（公務預算及基金）（僅詢\n答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00008"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}