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31000+08:00","text":"部長請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:00:22.731000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:00:27.306667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:00:27.306667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:00:31.882333+08:00","text":"食藥署署長一起，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:00:31.882333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:00:36.458000+08:00","text":"好，署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:00:36.458000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:00:41.033667+08:00","text":"來，署長，昨天我們談了很多。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:00:41.033667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:00:45.609333+08:00","text":"部長，對於我生理食鹽水進口專案錯誤的法條引用，還有我點出了三項人事案有問題，你們在第一時間開記者會要打臉我，然後現在呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:00:45.609333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:00:50.185000+08:00","text":"你已經查清楚了沒？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:00:50.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:00:52.146000+08:00","text":"沒有要打臉，我們只是說明清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:00:52.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:00:53.027000+08:00","text":"查清楚了沒？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:00:53.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:00:57.250000+08:00","text":"你有沒有引用錯誤法條？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:00:57.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:01.012000+08:00","text":"原來引用的法條可能不是那麼周全，經過討論……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:01.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:06.776000+08:00","text":"不是那麼周全，所以你現在有私底下在修其他的法條，希望能夠周全，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:06.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:06.796000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:06.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:06.896000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:06.896000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:07.896000+08:00","text":"我們現在用十七之二，我跟委員也已經報告過了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:06.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:08.618000+08:00","text":"所以你引用錯誤法條，在第一時間開記者會打臉我，你要不要跟我道歉？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:08.618000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:23.983000+08:00","text":"我們沒有開記者會跟你……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:23.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:26.905000+08:00","text":"食藥署署長，有沒有開記者會？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:26.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:35.569000+08:00","text":"以及第三項人事案，你們現在私底下請他走人，因為他是哲學系，這個部分查清楚了沒？回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:35.569000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:36.569000+08:00","text":"請署長先回答一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊署長聲宏","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:36.569000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:37.569000+08:00","text":"報告委員，昨天我跟……因為每次……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:36.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:46.821000+08:00","text":"你是不是有提供錯誤資訊給部長，讓部長不太知道的情況之下回答我，有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊署長聲宏","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:46.821000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:51.004000+08:00","text":"沒有，報告委員，是當時我們其實還在查這件事情的時候。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:51.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:57.989000+08:00","text":"對，所以是不是當時我所舉證的都是事實？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊署長聲宏","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:57.989000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:01:58.989000+08:00","text":"報告委員，那個20……因為我昨天我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:01:57.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:02:00.111000+08:00","text":"你已經浪費了我一分多鐘，有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:02:01.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:02:02.993000+08:00","text":"部長，你要不要直接跟我道歉？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊署長聲宏","start":"2024-11-21T13:02:02.993000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:02:04.941000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為那個時候是我們還在收集資訊的時候，而且我有跟委員報告，我們當時最早引用第五十五條的原因是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:02:04.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:02:07.882000+08:00","text":"有那一個時空背景，但是發現你們去請示了其他的部會說這樣子不適宜，所以你們現在在修整法條，對不對？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"莊署長聲宏","start":"2024-11-21T13:02:07.882000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:02:08.882000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:02:07.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:02:09.442000+08:00","text":"跟全國百姓講一下，你們是不是引用錯誤？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:02:30.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:02:32.351000+08:00","text":"是就是，不是就不是嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊署長聲宏","start":"2024-11-21T13:02:32.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:02:43.420000+08:00","text":"對，我們現在就是，這件事情發生了以後，我們食藥署檢討，我們引用法條第五十五條事實上是不正確的，我們現在就開始用第二十七之二條……","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:02:43.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:02:57.211000+08:00","text":"部長，我不是要讓你丟臉，只是你第一時間回答委員的東西是錯誤的，你想要打臉我，但事實上你們內部去檢討以後發現，自己有錯趕快改進，但是你們開記者會去打臉委員，對每個委員來說公平嘛？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:02:58.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:02:59.472000+08:00","text":"你們是不是應該加以去佐證？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:00.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:08.134000+08:00","text":"所以，部長，我再講一次，進口輸液專案引用錯誤法條以及人事案，你是不是應該跟全民道歉？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:11.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:21.219000+08:00","text":"我想我們食藥署可以說在發生事件以後，非常緊急來……這是有關於人民生命跟醫療用品，所以當初是要……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:21.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:29.423000+08:00","text":"所以你引用錯誤法條導致藥害基金不賠，所以要打消保法，所以你要去逛百貨公司，要記得累積點數，然後還可以滿千送百？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:30.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:31.573000+08:00","text":"這就是錯誤。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:31.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:34.094000+08:00","text":"所以我一直在講……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:34.094000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:35.094000+08:00","text":"我們真的是一心一意想要趕快解決這樣的問題……","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:34.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:35.294000+08:00","text":"我也一心一意啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:35.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:40.077000+08:00","text":"我擔心你做錯了，然後讓我們藥害基金不賠償，最後受害的是人民啊。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:41.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:43.759000+08:00","text":"所以你的目的良善，我的目的就不良善？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:43.759000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:45.400000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有、沒有，你……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:45.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:46.760000+08:00","text":"還是你要感受一下「目的良善」？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:46.760000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:47.760000+08:00","text":"我相信，我是完全相信委員是目的良善的想要……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:47.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:48.481000+08:00","text":"所以是不是有錯就更正？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:56.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:03:58.257000+08:00","text":"因為這是整個過程啦，那也是……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:03:58.257000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:01.019000+08:00","text":"看起來你要跟我拖到最後30秒。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:01.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:05.301000+08:00","text":"整個過程用最適當的一個條文……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:05.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:12.404000+08:00","text":"沒關係，後續我還有很多的料，沒關係，我們繼續來，既然看不出你的誠意，看不出你願意改正，我想全民都在看……","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:12.404000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:13.505000+08:00","text":"我們已經改正用更好的方式來處理。部長。","quality":0.118},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:13.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:27.011000+08:00","text":"最近勞動部一個職場霸凌的事件，全國震驚，現在各個立委都收到了這封信，我們看一下PPT，就是疾管署的組長霸凌屬下的一個事件，請問現在調查的結果是如何？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:28.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:33.633000+08:00","text":"我們昨天啟動調查，一個禮拜之內會查清楚、究責。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:33.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:37.534000+08:00","text":"相關的流程到底要怎麼做，誰要負責調查，會不會立場偏頗？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:38.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:45.156000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，昨天已經一個勞動部，他調查出來的結果，全民能夠接受嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:45.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:47.217000+08:00","text":"他開的記者會，全民能夠接受嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:48.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:57.701000+08:00","text":"不要再有立場偏頗，不要再為自己找藉口，內部的調查全民都失望，這就是為什麼我們需要聽證權。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:57.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:04:58.561000+08:00","text":"為什麼要有國會改革？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:04:59.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:05:04.843000+08:00","text":"讓我們來調查才能夠找出事實，而不是你們的內部調查，全民都已經不相信了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:05:05.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:05:27.531000+08:00","text":"可是現在又有這樣子的一個土皇帝，就在你們衛福部疾管署，昨天我在這邊也一直講，各個部會請注意，你們內部有相關案例都應該如實的找出來，昨天說兩個禮拜，今天變一個禮拜，我現在要通知你，立場有沒有偏頗，誰要來調查，你要不要講清楚說明白？","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:05:27.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:05:31.613000+08:00","text":"絕對不偏頗，我請疾管署說明。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊署長人祥","start":"2024-11-21T13:05:32.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:05:32.333000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊署長人祥","start":"2024-11-21T13:05:32.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:06:06.977000+08:00","text":"我們現在有找兩位外部的專家，其中一個是法律專家，一個是心理諮商的專家，另外我們署內也有兩個委員，但是都跟這位組長不熟，會組成委員會，主要就是說我們會先……今天開始其實我們已經有一個匿名的問卷給我們的同仁來填寫，問卷收回來之後，我們會請委員來決定要來面談的同仁，這個部分也會找之前離職的同仁來詢問。以上。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:06:07.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:06:17.467000+08:00","text":"我想事情已經發生，已經有前例了，今天他開記者會，不開還好，一開全民爆炸，相信你們應該有智慧不要重蹈覆轍。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:06:17.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:06:24.474000+08:00","text":"最後我要提醒你，中興大學申請了附設醫院案，共499床，你支不支持？部長。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:06:25.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:06:29.718000+08:00","text":"我想這個都要牽涉到整個醫療資源的評估，那……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:06:30.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:06:39.684000+08:00","text":"臺中衛生局已經函送到衛福部審議了，我在10月17號也有關心此案，將文轉給了衛福部，你曉不曉得這個狀況？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:06:39.684000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:06:40.684000+08:00","text":"請醫事司說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉司長越萍","start":"2024-11-21T13:06:39.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:06:44.427000+08:00","text":"目前教育部還沒回文，因為它是教育部體系的學校，所以會有雙重主管。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:06:45.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:00.625000+08:00","text":"我想雙重主管的問題，教育部我會再來問，今天難得衛福部來列席，我希望部長可以支持，讓臺中的醫療量能能夠提升，這是我們臺中市民還有我們民意代表該做的，這個部分麻煩你，可以嗎？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:00.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:06.809000+08:00","text":"了解，我想我們會非常客觀的評估，協助整個臺中的醫療資源能夠充分。好。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:07.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:15.455000+08:00","text":"最後，關於波波醫生，最近很多報導都指出有這樣子的900個波波醫生，我想請問你要如何管控？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:16.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:17.796000+08:00","text":"你知道他們都在哪裡執業嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:17.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:19.097000+08:00","text":"這部分你們有登記嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:19.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:21.479000+08:00","text":"有醫事人員的系統可以追查到醫師登錄的執業場所嗎？有嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:21.479000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:22.479000+08:00","text":"第一個委員所垂詢的這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:21.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:21.619000+08:00","text":"波波醫生。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:21.619000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:22.619000+08:00","text":"說900個是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:21.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:21.939000+08:00","text":"報載指出有900個波波醫生。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:21.939000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:24.157250+08:00","text":"現在在等那個……等牙醫嘛？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉司長越萍","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:24.157250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:26.375500+08:00","text":"不是、不是、不是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:26.375500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:28.593750+08:00","text":"不只是牙醫，波波醫生。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:28.593750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:30.812000+08:00","text":"對不起，部長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:30.812000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:33.030250+08:00","text":"喔，你說那個名單喔？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:33.030250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:35.248500+08:00","text":"您沒有在狀況內，報刊登載得這麼大，900個波波醫生，網路都在討論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:35.248500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:37.466750+08:00","text":"OK、OK，我知道，900個那個名單啦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:37.466750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:39.685000+08:00","text":"我想我們衛福部就是認執照嘛，你就是要有執照才能執業……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:39.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:43.708000+08:00","text":"所以你有沒有相關的系統能夠追蹤這些人的醫事登錄、執業場所，有沒有？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:43.708000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:07:52.416800+08:00","text":"民眾想要知道的是這個。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:07:52.416800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:08:01.125600+08:00","text":"如果有名字的話，你說。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉司長越萍","start":"2024-11-21T13:08:01.125600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:08:09.834400+08:00","text":"委員，我補充一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉司長越萍","start":"2024-11-21T13:08:09.834400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:08:18.543200+08:00","text":"只要是中華民國合格的醫師，我們有醫事管理系統會知道他在哪裡執業，可是學歷這件事情並不在我們登錄系統裡面。以上。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:08:18.543200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:08:27.252000+08:00","text":"我想名單牽涉到個資，我們都尊重，但是，部長，要怎麼增加民眾的信任度，這才是本席真正在乎的，臺中市民有知的權利，有就醫的選擇權。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:08:27.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:08:30.293000+08:00","text":"所以我想請問部長，在臺中地區有哪幾家醫療院所有波波醫師、牙醫師執業看診，你可以告訴我們嗎？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:08:30.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:08:30.913000+08:00","text":"我們手頭上應該沒有這種資料。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:08:50.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:08:51.016000+08:00","text":"所以就是沒有掌握嘛。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:08:51.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:08:55.438000+08:00","text":"那你就承認，你跟全民承認你沒有這樣的資料，你無法掌握嘛。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:08:55.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:09:06.362000+08:00","text":"我們是守好第一個就是醫師的考試，一定要有執照，然後他的繼續教育訓練，包括專科醫師的訓練，還有他執業以後的繼續教育，這是我們……","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-11-21T13:09:06.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:09:15.746000+08:00","text":"我想時間有限，我會去追蹤這些案子，我也要告訴你，我們今天所講的這三個案子，麻煩你，後續有相關的資料，請給我們指導一下。謝謝。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-11-21T13:09:15.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-21T13:09:16.627000+08:00","text":"好的，好的。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-21T13:09:17.127000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:09:18.555571+08:00","text":"謝謝羅委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-21T13:09:18.855571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:09:22.284143+08:00","text":"接續我們請張雅琳委員質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-21T13:09:22.584143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-21T13:09:28.298429+08:00","text":"肚子餓的後面那邊可以先吃，沒關係，要善待自己。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1115,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（13時）對不起，我已經準備好了，不好意思。請衛福部部長，謝謝。"],["主席：部長請。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：食藥署署長一起，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好，署長。"],["羅委員廷瑋：來，署長，昨天我們談了很多。部長，對於我生理食鹽水進口專案錯誤的法條引用，還有我點出了三項人事案有問題，你們在第一時間開記者會要打臉我，然後現在呢？你已經查清楚了沒？"],["邱部長泰源：沒有要打臉，我們只是說明清楚。"],["羅委員廷瑋：查清楚了沒？你有沒有引用錯誤法條？"],["邱部長泰源：原來引用的法條可能不是那麼周全，經過討論……"],["羅委員廷瑋：不是那麼周全，所以你現在有私底下在修其他的法條，希望能夠周全，對不對？對不對？對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：我們現在用十七之二，我跟委員也已經報告過了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你引用錯誤法條，在第一時間開記者會打臉我，你要不要跟我道歉？"],["邱部長泰源：我們沒有開記者會跟你……"],["羅委員廷瑋：食藥署署長，有沒有開記者會？以及第三項人事案，你們現在私底下請他走人，因為他是哲學系，這個部分查清楚了沒？回答。"],["邱部長泰源：請署長先回答一下。"],["莊署長聲宏：報告委員，昨天我跟……因為每次……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你是不是有提供錯誤資訊給部長，讓部長不太知道的情況之下回答我，有沒有？"],["莊署長聲宏：沒有，報告委員，是當時我們其實還在查這件事情的時候。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，所以是不是當時我所舉證的都是事實？"],["莊署長聲宏：報告委員，那個20……因為我昨天我們……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你已經浪費了我一分多鐘，有沒有？部長，你要不要直接跟我道歉？"],["莊署長聲宏：報告委員，因為那個時候是我們還在收集資訊的時候，而且我有跟委員報告，我們當時最早引用第五十五條的原因是……"],["羅委員廷瑋：有那一個時空背景，但是發現你們去請示了其他的部會說這樣子不適宜，所以你們現在在修整法條，對不對？"],["莊署長聲宏：對，沒錯。"],["羅委員廷瑋：跟全國百姓講一下，你們是不是引用錯誤？是就是，不是就不是嘛。"],["莊署長聲宏：對，我們現在就是，這件事情發生了以後，我們食藥署檢討，我們引用法條第五十五條事實上是不正確的，我們現在就開始用第二十七之二條……"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，我不是要讓你丟臉，只是你第一時間回答委員的東西是錯誤的，你想要打臉我，但事實上你們內部去檢討以後發現，自己有錯趕快改進，但是你們開記者會去打臉委員，對每個委員來說公平嘛？你們是不是應該加以去佐證？所以，部長，我再講一次，進口輸液專案引用錯誤法條以及人事案，你是不是應該跟全民道歉？"],["邱部長泰源：我想我們食藥署可以說在發生事件以後，非常緊急來……這是有關於人民生命跟醫療用品，所以當初是要……"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你引用錯誤法條導致藥害基金不賠，所以要打消保法，所以你要去逛百貨公司，要記得累積點數，然後還可以滿千送百？這就是錯誤。所以我一直在講……"],["邱部長泰源：我們真的是一心一意想要趕快解決這樣的問題……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我也一心一意啊！我擔心你做錯了，然後讓我們藥害基金不賠償，最後受害的是人民啊。所以你的目的良善，我的目的就不良善？"],["邱部長泰源：沒有、沒有、沒有，你……"],["羅委員廷瑋：還是你要感受一下「目的良善」？"],["邱部長泰源：我相信，我是完全相信委員是目的良善的想要……"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以是不是有錯就更正？"],["邱部長泰源：因為這是整個過程啦，那也是……"],["羅委員廷瑋：看起來你要跟我拖到最後30秒。"],["邱部長泰源：整個過程用最適當的一個條文……"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒關係，後續我還有很多的料，沒關係，我們繼續來，既然看不出你的誠意，看不出你願意改正，我想全民都在看……"],["邱部長泰源：我們已經改正用更好的方式來處理。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長。最近勞動部一個職場霸凌的事件，全國震驚，現在各個立委都收到了這封信，我們看一下PPT，就是疾管署的組長霸凌屬下的一個事件，請問現在調查的結果是如何？"],["邱部長泰源：我們昨天啟動調查，一個禮拜之內會查清楚、究責。"],["羅委員廷瑋：相關的流程到底要怎麼做，誰要負責調查，會不會立場偏頗？我告訴你，昨天已經一個勞動部，他調查出來的結果，全民能夠接受嗎？他開的記者會，全民能夠接受嗎？不要再有立場偏頗，不要再為自己找藉口，內部的調查全民都失望，這就是為什麼我們需要聽證權。為什麼要有國會改革？讓我們來調查才能夠找出事實，而不是你們的內部調查，全民都已經不相信了。可是現在又有這樣子的一個土皇帝，就在你們衛福部疾管署，昨天我在這邊也一直講，各個部會請注意，你們內部有相關案例都應該如實的找出來，昨天說兩個禮拜，今天變一個禮拜，我現在要通知你，立場有沒有偏頗，誰要來調查，你要不要講清楚說明白？"],["邱部長泰源：絕對不偏頗，我請疾管署說明。"],["莊署長人祥：委員好。我們現在有找兩位外部的專家，其中一個是法律專家，一個是心理諮商的專家，另外我們署內也有兩個委員，但是都跟這位組長不熟，會組成委員會，主要就是說我們會先……今天開始其實我們已經有一個匿名的問卷給我們的同仁來填寫，問卷收回來之後，我們會請委員來決定要來面談的同仁，這個部分也會找之前離職的同仁來詢問。以上。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想事情已經發生，已經有前例了，今天他開記者會，不開還好，一開全民爆炸，相信你們應該有智慧不要重蹈覆轍。最後我要提醒你，中興大學申請了附設醫院案，共499床，你支不支持？部長。"],["邱部長泰源：我想這個都要牽涉到整個醫療資源的評估，那……"],["羅委員廷瑋：臺中衛生局已經函送到衛福部審議了，我在10月17號也有關心此案，將文轉給了衛福部，你曉不曉得這個狀況？"],["邱部長泰源：請醫事司說明。"],["劉司長越萍：目前教育部還沒回文，因為它是教育部體系的學校，所以會有雙重主管。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想雙重主管的問題，教育部我會再來問，今天難得衛福部來列席，我希望部長可以支持，讓臺中的醫療量能能夠提升，這是我們臺中市民還有我們民意代表該做的，這個部分麻煩你，可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：了解，我想我們會非常客觀的評估，協助整個臺中的醫療資源能夠充分。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。最後，關於波波醫生，最近很多報導都指出有這樣子的900個波波醫生，我想請問你要如何管控？你知道他們都在哪裡執業嗎？這部分你們有登記嗎？有醫事人員的系統可以追查到醫師登錄的執業場所嗎？有嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：第一個委員所垂詢的這個……"],["羅委員廷瑋：波波醫生。"],["邱部長泰源：說900個是……"],["羅委員廷瑋：報載指出有900個波波醫生。"],["邱部長泰源：現在在等那個……等牙醫嘛？"],["劉司長越萍：不是、不是、不是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：不只是牙醫，波波醫生。對不起，部長……"],["邱部長泰源：喔，你說那個名單喔？"],["羅委員廷瑋：您沒有在狀況內，報刊登載得這麼大，900個波波醫生，網路都在討論。"],["邱部長泰源：OK、OK，我知道，900個那個名單啦。我想我們衛福部就是認執照嘛，你就是要有執照才能執業……"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你有沒有相關的系統能夠追蹤這些人的醫事登錄、執業場所，有沒有？民眾想要知道的是這個。"],["邱部長泰源：如果有名字的話，你說。"],["劉司長越萍：委員，我補充一下。只要是中華民國合格的醫師，我們有醫事管理系統會知道他在哪裡執業，可是學歷這件事情並不在我們登錄系統裡面。以上。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想名單牽涉到個資，我們都尊重，但是，部長，要怎麼增加民眾的信任度，這才是本席真正在乎的，臺中市民有知的權利，有就醫的選擇權。所以我想請問部長，在臺中地區有哪幾家醫療院所有波波醫師、牙醫師執業看診，你可以告訴我們嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們手頭上應該沒有這種資料。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以就是沒有掌握嘛。那你就承認，你跟全民承認你沒有這樣的資料，你無法掌握嘛。"],["邱部長泰源：我們是守好第一個就是醫師的考試，一定要有執照，然後他的繼續教育訓練，包括專科醫師的訓練，還有他執業以後的繼續教育，這是我們……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想時間有限，我會去追蹤這些案子，我也要告訴你，我們今天所講的這三個案子，麻煩你，後續有相關的資料，請給我們指導一下。謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：好的，好的。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員。接續我們請張雅琳委員質詢。","肚子餓的後面那邊可以先吃，沒關係，要善待自己。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-10","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","盧縣一","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","黃秀芳","廖偉翔","黃國昌","賴士葆","邱議瑩","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","涂權吉","吳春城","羅智強","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","王正旭","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩"],"page_start":55,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算案關於衛生福利部主管預算（公務預算及基金）（僅詢\n答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00008"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}