{"error":false,"id":["157366"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157366,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157366","日期":"2024-11-21","會議資料":null,"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-21T12:55:31+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-21T13:10:54+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:23","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc78d56ce4a637528bbb9c40fe0bdb45868a4ad55ac2447b1d494314c3fac5e6fbc405ee1c6225db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"12:55:31 - 13:10:54","會議時間":"2024-11-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"（變更議程）立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、\t審查委員吳琪銘等16人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。二、\t審查委員馬文君等16人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。三、\t審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「國土計畫法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。四、\t審查委員林思銘等18人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。五、\t審查委員許宇甄等19人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。六、\t審查委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。七、\t審查委員蔡易餘等16人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。八、\t審查委員陳超明等20人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。九、\t審查委員丁學忠等17人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。十、\t審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「國土計畫法第七條、第三十五條及第四十五條條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員張嘉郡等16人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。十二、\t審查委員劉建國等19人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。十三、審查委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。十四、\t審查委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。十五、\t審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。十六、\t審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。十七、\t審查委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。十八、\t審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。十九、\t審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。二十、\t審查委員黃建賓等16人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。二十一、\t審查委員張智倫等18人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。二十二、\t審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國土計畫法第四十條條文修正草案」案。二十三、\t審查委員林岱樺等16人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。二十四、\t審查委員涂權吉等17人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。二十五、\t審查委員魯明哲等16人擬具「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。二十六、\t審查委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「國土計畫法第四十條條文修正草案」案。二十七、\t審查委員劉建國等17人擬具「國土計畫法第八條及第四十五條條文修正草案」案。   【第二十四案，如經復議，則不予審查；第二十五至二十七案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查。】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.342218750000001,"end":13.868468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.31221875,"end":9.582218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.759093750000002,"end":12.822218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.05409375,"end":18.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.10471875,"end":15.539093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.78784375,"end":16.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.82159375,"end":16.973468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.973468750000002,"end":17.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.31909375,"end":30.675968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.11471875,"end":36.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.767843750000004,"end":38.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.94471875,"end":41.712218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.16784375,"end":50.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.92596875,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.76534375,"end":53.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.97596875,"end":60.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.759718750000005,"end":67.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.282843750000005,"end":63.126593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.16034375,"end":63.244718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.27846875,"end":64.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.96596875,"end":65.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.75471875000001,"end":67.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.86846875,"end":85.48596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.29596875,"end":88.92846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.62034375,"end":90.78471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.12221875,"end":94.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.23971875000001,"end":112.72221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.05971875,"end":114.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.88221875,"end":115.47284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.97909375,"end":130.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.74471875,"end":135.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.14471875,"end":141.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.81471875,"end":143.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.80596875,"end":147.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.73784375,"end":149.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.38721875000002,"end":158.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.33096875,"end":162.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.33034375,"end":174.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.42971875,"end":179.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.69471875000002,"end":191.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.71409375000002,"end":198.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.24034375000002,"end":206.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.46284375000002,"end":218.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.96284375000002,"end":224.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.02534375000002,"end":228.72096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.17659375000002,"end":231.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.31534375,"end":239.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.31846875000002,"end":245.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.57909375000003,"end":260.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.58096875,"end":273.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.99659375000005,"end":282.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.58596875,"end":298.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.32596875,"end":315.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.66096875,"end":323.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.65971875,"end":324.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.52034375,"end":325.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.00534375,"end":326.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.05596875000003,"end":327.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.31284375,"end":330.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.78096875,"end":331.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.13471875000005,"end":342.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.53971875,"end":336.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.76221875000005,"end":348.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.65596875,"end":347.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.01034375,"end":348.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.51659375,"end":348.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.58409375,"end":348.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.82034375,"end":348.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.88784375,"end":358.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.16909375,"end":359.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.97471875,"end":360.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEA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INTERVIEWER審查委員馬文君等16人擬具〈國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案〉案。"},{"start":61.8,"end":66.983,"text":"國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案案。二、сколько審查委員王美惠等16人擬具:「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案案。三、сколько審查委員王美惠等16人擬具:「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":91.234,"end":115.287,"text":"連剛剛部長都講出不要汙名化國土計畫法所以表示過去八年我們要實施的這個落實他到明年要上路了剩下剛剛部長還回答說還有七個多月沒有剩五個多月了到明年四月底之前剩五個多月沒有七個多月那七個多月可能是我們跟前兩個月算起來七個多月所以"},{"start":116.027,"end":117.148,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條"},{"start":136.209,"end":162.244,"text":"但是這些說明會的成果跟結果還有效益 這才是重要的在開完說明會之後 什麼是國土計畫法?國土分區功能是什麼?各分區功能依據什麼法令來執行?施行會會產生什麼影響?其實在說明會當中 代表出席的都答不出來"},{"start":163.393,"end":179.808,"text":"然後民眾參加完說明會之後完全沒有理解整個國土計畫法本須必須說國土計畫法是一部非常重要也非常好的對我們整個我們國家國土發展最重要的一個法例"},{"start":180.751,"end":204.964,"text":"但是我們就是因為整個的施行的過程一些要準備的不完備所以造成我們民眾的很多的疑慮那在這裡本席也要來請教就是說我們的功能分區圖正式實施包括我們中央所拿到的很多跟現況不符"},{"start":206.565,"end":218.653,"text":"很多跟現況不符你就要據以實施這就產生很大的問題啊我來舉例土地受污染無法耕作我在這邊講啊有些那個土地受污染現在還在還在耕作稻米其實那個耕作的人他自己都不敢吃"},{"start":229.58,"end":237.363,"text":"都不知道賣去哪裡,這種情況還要編為農醫,這種情況還要編為農醫,這第一個。第二個本席在這邊也講過,農醫沒有水源,你還是要編為農醫,這第二個。第三個"},{"start":246.187,"end":259.868,"text":"現在依據我們這些都是地方很多的疑慮現在我們因為很多政府都為了縮短這個城鄉差距還有貧富差距所以致力在推動量力農村"},{"start":261.09,"end":281.664,"text":"已經稍有成果,結果民眾覺得我們中央走回頭路,制定國土計畫法,我現在講的是民眾的疑慮,一定要想辦法來做溝通還有去了解。民眾覺得國土計畫法限制了我們鄉村農地的合法的這種使用,使貧富差距更擴大。"},{"start":282.885,"end":285.266,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條"},{"start":298.272,"end":327.399,"text":"整個特農區可是因為有些地區的發展那邊有30米的道路那這個聯絡道路他一邊可能已經是都市區都會區另一邊還在特農區在道路周邊他可不可以藉由這一次整個國土分區的這個規劃他能不能有些特農區他能不能不要再歸為農醫這個部分可不可以先回答"},{"start":329.309,"end":331.07,"text":"條文修正草案案案件。四、 INTERVIEWER審查委員馬文君等16人擬具《國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案案件》案。"},{"start":355.723,"end":382.527,"text":"他還是化為農醫那這個情況?那個會被稽查跟管制啦所以這個是國土分區圖交上來以後你們再去稽查才去確認嗎?那個是環境部阿他在縣市政府裡面都有專責的單位都有專責的單位去把他做列管而且不能中我們要...現在好幾個縣市本席了解他繳交上來就還是他污染的"},{"start":382.927,"end":403.343,"text":"他沒有水源的都還是你所謂的以前的特農區現在的農醫都是列為糧田那你你現在國土計畫法要上路他根本規劃錯誤這個情況你要在哪一種機制這個就接著我們就講到你有沒有緩衝機制這個他會送到內政部來的地方政府送"},{"start":404.864,"end":405.465,"text":"審查委員吳琪銘等16人擬具"},{"start":426.024,"end":426.464,"text":"國土計畫法第四十五條條"},{"start":439.315,"end":440.916,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條文修正草案"},{"start":460.926,"end":461.888,"text":"新竹縣新竹縣新竹縣"},{"start":476.288,"end":478.609,"text":"審查委員馬文君等16人擬具:「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員吳琪銘等16人擬具:「國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員吳琪銘等16人擬具:「國土計畫法第四十五條條"},{"start":498.033,"end":526.101,"text":"今天就算12月底給你上來,我認為4月也是無法順利實行。所以這也是為什麼我們原來都是期待在今年6月,就是這個意思。這麼多問題我看今年6月就算全部送上來,你審議也是很草率。跟委員報告就是說,那這就是在國土計畫現在這個制度的好處。那中間都可以打倒,過去的區域計畫時代是完全沒有的。"},{"start":526.96,"end":555.455,"text":"也就是說你畫了就是畫了。那第三個就是說回到...對啊,像這個就要說明,那本席接著追問你剛剛講的這個,如果你...就剛剛講的30米旁的這樣的狀況,在過去的區域計畫時代是沒有辦法動的,但是在國土計畫的時代是可以透過檢討或相對一個規劃,它去進一步把它落實,真的有發展需要的話,可以進一步去落實。所以署長說到一個重點,"},{"start":556.095,"end":556.876,"text":"條文修正草案案案。"},{"start":572.671,"end":598.569,"text":"依據地方區域它的這種變化跟發展,他是不是也透過這次國土計畫法有一些微調的部分也是可以微調的,沒有錯吧?對,像這一塊,這一塊本席也必須講新竹縣國土分區圖是交上來,八月就交了。但實際上地方對這樣的情形,就是我們聽到的聲音,地方就是"},{"start":599.609,"end":612.855,"text":"對我剛剛所講的問題都沒有解決。所以我們中央在審議的時候還可以再去調整。所以我們也希望中央跟縣市政府也要溝通好。"},{"start":614.014,"end":638.437,"text":"這一次國土的分區圖不是就是交上來而是在做的過程我們就在落實整個國土計畫法也藉這個機會每個縣市他有需要調整的在這時候就應該做調整是這樣沒有錯今天得到答案那再來就是說如果我們等一下下午我們審查是延後的話"},{"start":639.238,"end":641.759,"text":"國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員吳琪銘等16人擬具"},{"start":656.38,"end":678.529,"text":"再重新再拿回去再檢討,調整到更好。」包括剛剛你們也認同的這幾個問題,這很多區塊,而且這面積也不小。瞭解。我跟委員報告啦,我們分幾個層次啦。就是您剛剛所提到了,有一些譬如說是它的這個圖資層本身產生跟限定不符的,那其實我們是審議完成,它是審議完成,但我們還沒有核定。所以在這個過程當中是還可以"},{"start":686.059,"end":692.266,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條"},{"start":706.062,"end":708.483,"text":"審查委員吳琪銘等16人擬具〈國土計畫法第四十五條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":724.199,"end":737.967,"text":"所以我覺得這在整個流程裡面其實都有完整的配套我們從第二階段其實都鼓勵縣市就可以去做這類的規劃那到第三階段的時候再來落實這樣那我很快再問兩個問題"},{"start":739.642,"end":767.238,"text":"也就是說我們國土署是否有在持續更新相關圖資因為這整個我們圖資的主管機關他有關圖資的公告的程序還有更新的頻率這中間包含他坐標系統精度的要求好像都沒有統一規範這個部分我們國土計畫法本席看因為朝野的立委我看都來跟我私下反映要言"},{"start":767.978,"end":769.918,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條"},{"start":793.303,"end":820.769,"text":"部會所採用的圖資尤其是它的精度的標準那如果要全面因為有的涉及到全國性的那一個如果要統一標準的話可能圖資的這個成本很高但是我們都希望他持續的做更新也就是說有些你落到限地的確民眾反應不行這的確限地差異太大他們都是用分批分批不斷的在更新那來做一些局部的調整第二個我們在所謂的更正編訂這個作業"},{"start":822.149,"end":844.603,"text":"因為圖資所產生錯誤的原有在非督裏面做了更正編定這個制度還是都維持所以我們對民眾的這個圖資因為圖資造成誤解的這個資訊的這個部分我們都是持續用開放性的所以署長也知道你看每一個委員提的問題你們都知道但是他沒有被解決好最後整個區域計畫轉軌制國土計畫的制度你們的緩衝機制一定要有"},{"start":851.207,"end":874.821,"text":"所以剛剛跟委員報告過其實我們都已經按照不同情境給予不同的但是這個緩衝機制好像沒有辦法化解整個地方的反彈應該是這麼說如果還是有臨時提案可能連新辦事業計畫都沒有的都還沒有審查通過那個是最困難也是最近在地方政府會暴增的那這些即使延期我跟委員報告這些案子還是會出現"},{"start":877.91,"end":894.789,"text":"但是我覺得那個轉軌的緩衝機制你們把它明確一點明確之外我覺得這整個過程宣導也就是說包括我不知道這之前對我們因為都是地方政府去做說明會然後中央是不是也有派人下去"},{"start":895.59,"end":901.613,"text":"條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條文修正草案．立法院第四十五條條文修正草案"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}