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列席報告深感榮幸"},{"start":2436.26,"end":2449.115,"text":"以下僅就9案專案報告內容做簡要的說明第一個就是凍結本部促餐業務的預算本項預算主要是辦理促餐業務各項的委辦作業頒發促餐案件的簽約獎勵金還有經過獎的獎金"},{"start":2453.539,"end":2470.816,"text":"還有辦理經過獎的活動補助辦理初午餐前置作業等所需要的有關大院所關注的導引民間資金投入公共建設的同時要考量ESG資訊接入責任金融及環境和社會績效情形這項議題請參閱報告第一頁到第二頁"},{"start":2475.14,"end":2497.738,"text":"第二個有關凍結本部復稅署復稅業務以及地方政府稅款短少補助預算的事項這事項預算主要是分別辦理革新稅制改善稅政還有地方政府稅款短少的補助等業務所需要有關大院所關注的綜合所得稅各類所得占比結構的調整情形還有電子勞務營業稅"},{"start":2499.259,"end":2513.383,"text":"以及電子商務盈利事業所得稅有效稅率的檢討改善情形還有積極督促地方政府合理評定房屋稅稅基並因地質疑定定妥適的徵收率情形等事項議題的辦理情形請參閱報告第二頁到第六頁"},{"start":2518.044,"end":2535.909,"text":"第三個有關凍結本部國有財產署及所屬國有財產業務及一般建築及設備預算事項這事項的預算主要是辦理我們國有財產的接收保管管理處分改良利用還有公用財產業務及辦公廳設取得案等所需要的經費"},{"start":2536.889,"end":2554.184,"text":"有關大院關注國有非公用土地占用的處理情形還有宜蘭縣政府申請根據受託管理交息箱5階段17筆的國有土地還有5棟國有建物評估能否容許建置親子遊戲及運動設施處理情形還有監管抵繳遺產稅或證與稅實務的處理情形等7項議題的辦理情形請參閱我們報告的第6頁到第10頁"},{"start":2565.385,"end":2582.359,"text":"以上棄虛解除凍結經費的緣由主要是我們上述本部還有負稅署、國有財產署以及所屬113年度的預算是辦理有關推動初餐業務還有革新稅制、改善稅政還有地方政府稅收短小的補助"},{"start":2583.42,"end":2600.489,"text":"國有財產的接收保管處分等相關的業務以及辦公廳設案取得的業務所必須要的經費都是按照業務需求以及本則尊潔原則核實編列本部以及所屬相關機關會善用資源嚴謹的執行每項預算懇請各位委員會與支持同意動之我們相關預算並請指教謝謝"},{"start":2611.445,"end":2635.51,"text":"好謝謝部長的這一個報告那現在我們開始進行詢答先做以下的這一個宣告每位初席委員發言時間為8分鐘必要時延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言的時間5分鐘必要時延長1分鐘那今日上午10點30分截止發言登記現在依照登記的順序請第一位林德福委員質詢"},{"start":2652.382,"end":2656.005,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請莊部長有請莊部長委員長部長早部長我請教因為依財政資訊中心的統計裡面的資料去分析民國105年年度到110年一共6年薪資所得因納稅而佔中所得"},{"start":2680.711,"end":2688.416,"text":"因納稅額的比例分別為57% 57%然後54%51%52%到及51%就是說這6年他所佔的比例是這樣呈現逐年下降的一個趨勢那我請問部長在財政部統計薪資所得佔比的歷史紀錄中105年度以前薪資所得"},{"start":2709.091,"end":2726.458,"text":"在因納稅而占比的變化狀況是不是這個請部長也說明一下好不好有關105年以前薪資所得占總所得的占比的部分因為我們現在手上沒有數據是不是可以容我們會後提供給委員"},{"start":2727.691,"end":2742.003,"text":"因為本席要了解到底是波浪性還是呈現由高往低來下滑那部長因為財政部表示說薪資所得占總所得比例高低以一國的經濟與產業結構及民眾"},{"start":2745.287,"end":2771.254,"text":"偏好受雇或創業是否願意來承擔風險的特性有關係有相關那比例高低呈現出國內整個經濟特性以及這個所得結構的變化那我請問部長財政部從這些統計數字看出他的特性啊變化到底是什麼你認為呢"},{"start":2773.411,"end":2797.532,"text":"也就是說一國的一個特性他可能一個有的是創業有的是喜歡受雇那受雇的話他就是以薪資所得為主那如果創業的話他可能就是營業收入等等那所以這個跟一個國的一個民族的一個特性或經濟的一個特性有關係但是可以看出來因為我們近年在所得稅制的一個優化裡面對於薪資所得可以扣除額的部分有隨著"},{"start":2798.28,"end":2824.989,"text":"相關的一些調整然後降低這個比例所以這個部分是一直我們在努力的一個方向對薪資所得者在所得稅裡面的扣除額裡面我們會做一些調整那個對於這些產業興衰啦貧富差距啦所得分配極端化能不能提供更精準的判斷以及參考你的看法呢這個部分如果對於所得分配等等那個當然要整個所得稅制裡面去看比如說我們"},{"start":2825.709,"end":2825.729,"text":"閱讀委員會議"},{"start":2847.273,"end":2870.101,"text":"標扣列舉扣除轉到特別扣除都是希望這個部分在所得稅制裏面鼓勵生育年齡的青年們可以多生孩子以及對於租金支出的一些青年朋友們可以合時的扣除他相關的一些相關租金支出我想這個部分在一個所得分配上都是有所幫助的"},{"start":2870.728,"end":2900.215,"text":"那個對於這個統計數字下的變化你認為政府應該要扮演什麼樣的一個角色你的認為呢我想這個部分政府在扮演的角色裡面我們當然可以這裡面收入的部分我們來做調整之外另外對於支出面政府對於社會福利支出歷年其實都在調整比如說整整個稅出裡面社會福利支出大概佔了26%也就是希望把國家的資源對於一些需要協助的一些民眾我們多提供協助"},{"start":2900.868,"end":2920.478,"text":"其實齁我認為有的比較不符合實際啊那個部長你像我就舉一個齁像有很多高齡化我們已經步入高齡化的社會那年紀大有的要請外傭來照顧那外傭你一年現在能夠扣所得扣多少20萬是不是"},{"start":2923.067,"end":2938.08,"text":"目前長照特別扣除額一個人是12萬跟委員報告另外還有身心障礙特別扣除額是21萬8千那實際上這跟實際的出入有多大你知不知道"},{"start":2941.866,"end":2952.938,"text":"當然我們知道就是說另外對於70歲以上的長者扣免稅額是事實上增加就是乘以1.5所以在113年這邊那你12萬1.5也是18萬而已啊 對不對"},{"start":2956.772,"end":2981.739,"text":"那實際上你知不知道你要是今天長照請一個這個外勞來照顧的話一年最少要30萬以上沒有30萬根本就甚至於有的要請兩個人餒對不對這個要務實因為你並不入高齡化社會這是現實的問題嘛但是我其實有提過幾次的案但是齁都沒有過實際上只有扣那麼一點點"},{"start":2982.839,"end":2983.06,"text":"閱讀了相關的財源去"},{"start":2993.284,"end":3018.467,"text":"協助一些需要長期照顧的年紀越大那個部長年紀越大花費的費用越多不但要他就要經常上醫院甚至於啊這個有的要請一位不夠要請兩位喔對不對兩位一年最少要花60萬以上甚至一到70萬那你說兩位70萬結果你讓他扣只有扣12萬"},{"start":3019.554,"end":3038.562,"text":"那個落差多大?因為不入高齡化社會這是現實的問題啊對不對?那個部長這個應該還要再檢討啦後天禮拜五要召開物價穩定小組會議媒體報導說政府可能因為考量國際物價特性的波動再加上電價即將調整"},{"start":3041.244,"end":3057.526,"text":"所以說打算計畫減增關鍵的這些原物料的稅戶這些措施也就是再度來展演減稅措施一劑或者是6個月底到6月底"},{"start":3058.087,"end":3061.468,"text":"那請問部長你認為電價影響物價波動的狀況情況有嚴重到政府需要延長對這些原物料實施減稅措施嗎?你認為呢?跟委員報告這個禮拜我確實行會會開穩定物價小組的會議那在這個會議裡面會去討論各方面的國內外物資的供需還有價格的走勢"},{"start":3080.885,"end":3087.35,"text":"以及減稅的一些成本效益等等那就這個部分我也跟委員報告是從110年12月開始到今年3月總共我們減少了營業稅貨物稅以及關稅有853億那這個部分可以協助廠商降低成本那緩解物價的上漲"},{"start":3098.559,"end":3098.579,"text":" »:部長﹖"},{"start":3117.591,"end":3144.925,"text":"如果這個有的話那你認為哪幾種稅務對物價影響波動比較大我想我們現在減少的營業稅貨物稅以及關稅整個來說以3個月為一期的話減稅的利益可以達到96億那我想這個部分對廠商降低成本應該是會有所幫助希望如此啦那你降低的話不要說變成廠商受益啊是"},{"start":3145.585,"end":3171.201,"text":"你們要去督導不然的話這個中間你給他減稅然後他就藉著電價的上漲然後認為說什麼都要漲減稅這部分有的廠商就把他整個等於是過水根本就沒有真正的去降所以說你認為這個會不會哪時候可以取消這個降稅的問題"},{"start":3173.778,"end":3193.262,"text":"這個問題當然要看整個行政院的穩定物價小組他們會去綜合的考量各個的情勢就比如我剛剛提到國內外物資的供需還有整個價格的走勢這都必須要去考量的部長是減稅措施失敗是在造成稅損那大宗物資如果真的是延長到6月底那請問部長對這樣減稅措施的範圍應該考量電價"},{"start":3199.524,"end":3213.335,"text":"條帳衝擊所以說上一波牆還是持平還是可能在降稅範圍會縮小你認為呢我想這個部分都會在穩定物價小組裡面去整個去做綜合的評估"},{"start":3213.956,"end":3225.098,"text":"因為去年底到今年3月底的降稅措施才任務預估這個貨物稅這個減稅的利益達到77.37億那營業稅是14.82億總共加上關稅4.05億剛剛您講的96億那請問部長這一波的降稅措施如果實施到底有沒有預估出到底是多少減稅的這些利益呢"},{"start":3243.783,"end":3266.217,"text":"這個就是96的減稅率那這就是我們這樣這個減稅以後對於廠商來說它的成本是可以稍微緩解那對物價的一個穩定應該有所幫助部長上個月中旬財政部公佈112年全國負稅收入的統計全年阿十增金額是3兆4562億全年超增3860億阿那達成率為百分之112.6"},{"start":3271.52,"end":3291.985,"text":"經由財政部觀察景氣和出口的狀況你說目前應該是屬於平穩而且溫和的復甦而且逐漸好轉那請問部長既然是景氣好轉你認為今年稅務的收入是不是應該比照去年會比去年來得好你認為呢跟委員報告雖然現在"},{"start":3294.206,"end":3310.452,"text":"​​​​​​​​"},{"start":3310.652,"end":3336.027,"text":"會不會有產生其他的變數目前當然這個部分有可能什麼樣的變數我們現在也無法確定包含這個有關這個地緣政治的影響等等以及出口的一個情形我們都會密切的關注但是因為現在才兩個月所以很難評估到全年可以的稅收是這樣齁是好謝謝期待我下次再問謝謝委員是謝謝委員謝謝林德福委員的質詢接著我們請賴士保委員質詢"},{"start":3343.885,"end":3345.706,"text":"謝謝主席一起各位先進有請財政部的莊部長請財政部長委員長部長你早這個"},{"start":3370.977,"end":3393.149,"text":"昨天吧這個央行總裁在總諮詢有提到金融冰推為了當然就金融穩定了齁那我所了解的是在這一塊金融穩定這一塊財政部央行金管會這個財政部是召集人嘛是吧"},{"start":3394.755,"end":3404.397,"text":"我們是參與其中之一的召集人,對就是這一組的召集人吧請問上一次什麼時候開啊?這可以講嗎?去年欸"},{"start":3407.288,"end":3431.608,"text":"對去年什麼時候我印象我不知道去年什麼時候開去年10月跟12月對去年10月12月會議的主持單位是國安局還是那個單位行政院在行政院在我們這邊我們會有一個會議我們在部裡面本身會有一個次長主持的會議那在行政院是"},{"start":3433.601,"end":3440.322,"text":"院長召集的院長召集喔我請教你財政部跟你有關的兵推的這一塊你是推什麼我們主要是財力的動員財力的動員什麼叫財力動員我們主要是要配合國防部的一個整體規劃然後我們看看他們的演練情形然後包含就是說我們的戰費的籌措預算的轉換"},{"start":3460.146,"end":3478.054,"text":"什麼叫預算凍結書面報告案?預算凍結書面報告案比如說我們配合央行還有金管會做外匯金管金融等等相關的計畫對相關的計畫都會也就是說我們不是我請教你講具體一點當然這個如果精密不講沒有精密你要講就是你說"},{"start":3484.576,"end":3499.124,"text":"這個配合央行是怎麼樣是如果打仗的時候不可以匯出只可以匯進是不是這樣對有關這個動員的階段動員階段就這樣子嗎預算的轉換還有金融外匯的管制啊"},{"start":3499.804,"end":3506.088,"text":"就加強管制對對對那關務署會不會加速軍用品的通關呃關務署在通關的部分當然有急加速的話一定會變節化對變節當然軍用品對你剛提到國庫的穩定國庫的調度很重要對"},{"start":3521.878,"end":3545.67,"text":"有沒有討論的如果真的打仗我們可能要加稅有沒有可能你說資金調度可能不夠啊打仗錢不夠啊也許有沒有可能也這個部分可能是考慮的一個項目對對這涉及到戰費的籌措是嘛戰費資金的籌措對那就加稅就可能加稅容是不是稅貨稅貨稅對稅貨稅對就是因應戰爭"},{"start":3553.614,"end":3577.068,"text":"這個戰爭費或者兵捐就戰爭捐是不是這樣子我想這個部分都是考慮稅跟費都有考慮的稅比較簡單嘛應該稅比稅簡單嘛稅還要立法啊稅要不要立法求你這個部分的立法的情況是稅要不要立法如果增加一個都要立法你跟民眾收權都要立法"},{"start":3578.549,"end":3594.203,"text":"對,要向老百姓要一塊錢都要立法所以12月之後就沒再開了?對對對一年都開了,對今年都沒開?今年還沒好,我再請教你另外一個問題"},{"start":3595.72,"end":3598.242,"text":"臺北市跟臺南市在稅基的部分早就大幅挑生了"},{"start":3619.062,"end":3635.594,"text":"所以那時候我有一個搭配所以稅率台北市呢從1.2你們底線是1.2降到0.6台南市黃偉哲當市長他也是稅期大幅上升上升好像是有幾百個%然後稅率降為1.0"},{"start":3640.377,"end":3666.395,"text":"現在的稅基這兩個縣市這兩個都這兩個直轄市都稅基大幅調整了當初那時候他們也是為了打炒房打囤房所以稅率的部分他調為0.6結果現在你沒有跟地方政府商量溝通一下本來回顧我們上一屆"},{"start":3667.932,"end":3686.992,"text":"我們在海黨提了多少個屯房稅2.0的法案你們都審都不審啊理都不理啊後來選舉的時候賴清德把燈膏一壺要你們就這樣子了那時候我有版本啊我有版本就是這樣子啊單一自助我現在是針對單一一戶自助的"},{"start":3689.765,"end":3715.381,"text":"這個應該降啦就0.6低一點啦那中間那一塊後面那個高一點你最高只有4.8嘛對不對4.8我覺得有那個10戶以上的可以更高嘛這麼有錢多靠一點啦沒有人反對可是你對單一支柱你們還是1.0開始就起跳了齁也沒有緩衝的空間喔這個台北市以台北市台北市選出來的立委"},{"start":3716.281,"end":3736.85,"text":"二十一萬戶是單一自住他覺得要增加百分之四十原來0.6嘛下面1.0啊增加百分之四十這個不得很重單一自住一個小公寓也是要這樣子這不得很重我就請教部長可以不可以"},{"start":3738.632,"end":3750.097,"text":"但是一視同仁吧,其他的現實有這個問題都可以使用,如果他現在目前稅級調漲,稅率調降,整體來講還是漲的啦,整體還是漲的。"},{"start":3753.596,"end":3769.605,"text":"這個情況可不可能讓他逐年調整比如說零點七零點八或者你零點八開始到幾年或兩年以後一點零有沒有可能跟委員報告這部分臺北市當時確實如同"},{"start":3770.405,"end":3783.9,"text":"委員所說的因為我們稅率定點1.2所以他對單一自住的部分在稅基部分隔離打6打對折嘛就等於稅率變成0.6那這一次呢中央的一個房屋稅條例修正後單一自住的是1%"},{"start":3786.863,"end":3801.777,"text":"但是他那個部分怎麼辦呢因為稅基他是做稅基的折減那這個部分呢台北市政府在上個禮拜的時候蔣市長已經對外說這個部分他們會分4年來逐步的一個調整也就是說不要讓這個21萬戶馬上受到衝擊然後他分4年來調整當然分4年調整讓他回到我們房屋稅條例的規定也就是按照他的既有的稅基乘以1%來算"},{"start":3812.747,"end":3828.24,"text":"那這個部分我們也有回應他的意見第一個我們理解當時台北市政府為什麼這樣做的理由那我們認為精神上是跟中央目前的法規是一致的那他分為4年了他還要經過他們的地方審議委員會的通過那我們希望經過審議委員會通過之後他們能夠確實落實這個分4年來做"},{"start":3832.344,"end":3859.876,"text":"是這樣你接受嗎這個部分我們可以理解也可以接受是可以接受是可以接受因為至少他是朝著就是4年內到一定年對他是分4年來做調查好謝謝你謝謝委員來自由貿易港區裡面是不是一些要不要課稅你管的對不對這有關稅的部分當然是歸我們那當然還有關務的部分我們也有交通部"},{"start":3861.017,"end":3888.098,"text":"對對對主要是交通部好沒有沒有他裡面是要不要扣稅是交通部要問你們所以你不要交通部提給你們你們提給交通部來我現在告訴你自貿區第15條明文規定違禁品不可以進自貿區自貿區了違禁品寫很清楚第15條第一項第一款結果現在我們查到了電子煙"},{"start":3890.037,"end":3911.182,"text":"加辣煙其實現在都是禁止的這個加辣煙是要要審核進攻不如不審核目前為止沒有一件通過沒有一件都沒有所以是違禁品喔結果你們臺北關自貿區電子煙成品1826支加辣煙的成品6155支加辣煙的零件"},{"start":3920.225,"end":3940.659,"text":"26.4萬隻都在高雄關、台北關這兩個地方那麼有的基隆關然後這個這第三個基隆關有一部分的基隆關你們怎麼會自貿區讓違禁品明顯違法欸財政部帶頭違法讓違禁品進入你的自貿區怎麼可以呢來來來部長講一下委員是不是可以請我們關務處來說明謝謝"},{"start":3944.162,"end":3951.931,"text":"來報告委員這個加熱煙跟電子煙這個不算是違禁品啦違禁品他目前為止不能這一款的違禁品誰誰誰"},{"start":3954.332,"end":3977.527,"text":"他是誰調的違禁品啊那違禁品基本上是指那個違反這個著作權的啦或者是商標權的這些智慧財產權的東西可是目前目前我們法律相關的還是規定他不可以進來啊是不可以進來不可以進來可以進來自貿區喔那內對因為自貿區是境內關外的概念啦所以衛福部那邊不同意說那你假設麻廢也可以進來囉"},{"start":3980.413,"end":3981.213,"text":"最後一個小問題喔 這個"},{"start":4003.188,"end":4008.309,"text":"台灣騎摩托車的機車組有多少人?1500萬輛這些人相對弱勢但是台灣的主流是機車組的機車燃料費"},{"start":4025.592,"end":4025.612,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":4055.536,"end":4061.101,"text":"賴世保委員質詢結束謝謝賴委員現在我們請下一位郭國文委員發言謝謝主席有請莊部長來部長請"},{"start":4074.261,"end":4087.948,"text":"委員長部長今天解凍案中有特別針對地方政府稅款這個短少補助的部分其實根結來說還是牽扯到有關於這個財政收支法跟法跟這個統籌分配辦法的一個問題"},{"start":4089.77,"end":4106.865,"text":"以照台灣目前的財政體制是屬於一種單一體制而非聯邦體制的情況底下我們財政會集中可以理解但是比例如果差別太大的話恐怕就會影響地方自治精神的落實舉112年的例子來說你看中央的稅款高達3兆660億就我們的辦公室的統計地方的稅款不過是3612億也就是說"},{"start":4117.234,"end":4130.746,"text":"總體的國家的稅收當中居然高達9比1的部分本席之所以會跟你提出這個問題其實那個牽扯到財政收支發放法你在上一次的會議當中提到說今年度會送進來修法是不是"},{"start":4131.704,"end":4150.17,"text":"我沒有說今年度會送進去我講跟委員報告財政收支劃分法那涉及到地方的一個分配所以這個部分我們財政部基本上有六項的原則基本上已經有方向但是呢我們也跟地方政府去查詢他們對於分配指標裡面這個部分要獲取到共識要有共識以後才能夠有"},{"start":4158.233,"end":4171.727,"text":"你那時候以前共識的部分是在統籌分配款的部分統籌分配款的部分是一個橫向的一個配置的部分我現在說的是縱向的配置的部分以縱向的配置的部分地方不會有意見啊你如果要下放的話他們怎麼會有意見呢這不會有共識的問題啊對"},{"start":4173.108,"end":4191.563,"text":"那當然在縱向的分配的部分我們第一個就是我們會保障他們的既有財源讓他們地方的稅源可以不用減少本席所列舉的這些稅基跟稅源的部分有沒有可能比例說項目上有做一個調整讓整個這個目前總體的國家稅收的比例高達9比1的情況底下做一個可能性的"},{"start":4192.123,"end":4220.886,"text":"當然這個在未來在研議的時候都會做考量的那本期就是要跟你提醒啊議議區在這種補助短少的部分來大家就要做爭議的部分是不是有在從一個縱向的部分來做調整的可能性有沒有可能是我想這個部分謝謝委員的一個提示那我想我們會就中央跟地方這個垂直分配的部分要考量最近中央跟地方財經趨勢的一個變化所以說這個基本上是沒有什麼共識的問題共識的問題是在統籌分配款橫向的部分縣市之間的一些差別"},{"start":4221.646,"end":4250.681,"text":"現實之間的差別確實是有這個問題每個地方的自有財源再加上整個統籌分配款的財源它所能夠依賴這個地方的比例是有所高低簡單的講台北市的自有財源加上統籌分配款它的自主程度就大概94%就很高那有些地方其實是非常低大概不到50%差別非常的大長期以來沒有辦法達成共識的是這個部分以至於地方政府不論是取債也好或者是要求中央補助也好或者是賣地也好"},{"start":4251.321,"end":4271.834,"text":"這種方式就紛紛出籠嘛所以說根本來說我們是不是要從財政收支法案法從1999年的時候到現在為止已經高達25年都沒有修法囉以至於說十幾年前升格的時候還列於升格三法已經經過十幾年升格已經經過十幾年二度變六度的情況底下一樣還沒有修法已經經過十幾年了部長你是不是在你任內有可能面對這個問題"},{"start":4273.295,"end":4291.512,"text":"是謝謝委員的一個提示您的提示確實是那我想我們這個部分也會去考量就是說第一個要維持中央要有一個財政的韌性是要維持的第二個因為這個財政韌性要應不時之需我講這整個民主化之後整個民主化的國家在財政能力汲取的能力相對會降低我們可以理解"},{"start":4291.852,"end":4316.476,"text":""},{"start":4318.417,"end":4329.362,"text":"是2014億總共這樣子就同地方政府收入主要來自中央的部分就高達8200億超過他們本身的稅收60%就總體而言他依存度是高達6成"},{"start":4331.277,"end":4331.397,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4348.831,"end":4348.851,"text":"閱讀委員會議"},{"start":4366.049,"end":4380.778,"text":"這就是統籌分配款最不公平的一個關鍵因素部長有沒有可能納入其他的方式工廠登記都在南部公司登記都在台北所以說你結果財政狀況比較好南部就比較不好這部分應該做一個調整部長有沒有可能做這樣的思考"},{"start":4381.298,"end":4398.901,"text":"是委員的提示很好我們在未來考慮的時候都會把他納進去參考然後對於地方的財政需求也要去兼顧除了我們中央政府任性之外財政任性之外地方的財政需求都要去兼顧有一個真正的一個方向出來本席是看到這個解凍案的時候特別來做一個提醒"},{"start":4399.522,"end":4427.152,"text":"另外一個部分房屋稅的這部分我們算起來房屋稅的逃落稅率高達大概破五成你看怎麼算呢你10戶以上你最近所查到的稅務署所查到的107人的情況底下高達58%5到9戶的部分高達52%以照目前非自住的這個部分的共54萬多人的情況55%的推估大概房屋的黑數目高達30萬居多高達30萬居多可是部長"},{"start":4427.972,"end":4436.136,"text":"你們每年的這個查核的部分你們之前已經查了9337件然後有4968件要補稅就是逃落稅的部分然後你們今2024年到2025兩年還要查8000件可是呢你目前為止如果就這兩個預計要查跟以前查過你還有28萬件的黑書還沒有到達到你如果按照這種計算方式兩年要查一萬件的話我算一算"},{"start":4454.144,"end":4458.237,"text":"你還要再查56年部長我算過你的年齡你大概如果一直當部長的話你要123歲才能查完部長"},{"start":4463.716,"end":4490.042,"text":"當然第一個加強查核是我們的一個方向第二個就是說現在有所謂的那個房屋租金的支出作為特別扣除這事實上就讓房客去報這個以後那其實我們就知道房東在哪裡問題是什麼時候才有一個效率的方法能夠你的責任是這樣你既然要把這些黑數減少就是要強化納管不是嗎"},{"start":4491.122,"end":4510.387,"text":"你的責任就是強化納管嘛對,強化納管強化納管的部分你就是要加強查緝嘛那加強查緝你要重點,重點是什麼?就是熱區嘛那熱區是什麼?人口居住密集的地方嘛對啊,所以熱區是一個重點啊那你熱區當中的最熱的地方是哪裡?也就台北市幼都當中是最關鍵的是"},{"start":4511.527,"end":4529.872,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":4530.066,"end":4539.851,"text":"你們純屋稅的部分自己講在上次的答詢當中純屋稅2.0的話預估每戶要增加2.6萬人所得稅專案平均一戶要增加5.63萬人"},{"start":4542.79,"end":4564.07,"text":"​​​​​​​​"},{"start":4564.17,"end":4564.37,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":4591.391,"end":4612.521,"text":"有這種情況要參加的才有這個問題有強制納管的部分這是你的誘因可是沒有的部分還是有一個轉嫁的空間本席再提醒你再舉一個例子你們自己所做的研究報告當中以台北市為例你們囤房稅你們自己委託研究報告囤房稅增加2776萬元但是租金暴增在38975元暴增14倍"},{"start":4618.459,"end":4637.705,"text":"這你們自己做研究報告就台北市的關聯性這麼高或許他有高估但是基本上就代表那個關聯性很高那本席要告訴你就是說要如何減少這個房市的這個黑數這個是你的責任你要加強納管同時呢要避免轉嫁"},{"start":4638.865,"end":4657.346,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":4657.847,"end":4673.625,"text":"委員說得很適這個部分我們資料都會給內政部做橫向的聯繫對橫向的聯繫他的責任是弱化轉嫁而你要強化納管強化納管的部分除了剛剛的社會住宅的一個降低這個稅收那個稅增的部分之外還有一個方式"},{"start":4674.306,"end":4696.136,"text":"你之前有提過一個經費資金也就是臺商專案經費資金的時候有免除課稅的這個責任嘛對不對對對對降稅然後內政部當中以前移民署也對移工有自首方案嘛本席強烈檢理你啊你如果要減少這些黑數你與其每年兩年去查個一萬件你是不是可以制定一個特色方案有沒有可能性"},{"start":4700.074,"end":4722.242,"text":"為什麼需要特赦你知道嗎因為特赦條款可以不是主要檢討所以說你要納入這個制度你相對的整個這個部分透明化之後你才可以讓內政部的這個轉嫁的這個移轉弱化你唯有前面要強化強化按照你這種專案查緝的部分你要查到民國幾年你與其如此不如讓他自己來自首有沒有可能"},{"start":4723.443,"end":4738.498,"text":"對至少如果他自己來報的話那就我們不會罰他至少要有誘因啊就不罰不罰除了不罰之外還有其他的辦法沒有啊當然現在還有比如說剛剛委員也提到的社會住宅或者是做包租代管公益出租人其實這個稅率都是維持自用稅率這個部分是可以"},{"start":4740.82,"end":4741.86,"text":"郭國榮委員質詢結束謝謝郭委員我們下一位請賴會員委員發言謝謝"},{"start":4781.072,"end":4784.919,"text":"謝謝主席有請財政部部長有請莊部長"},{"start":4791.161,"end":4810.632,"text":"委員好部長早安我想今天借用一點時間跟部長來探討就是我們的綜合守得稅裡頭長照的一個扣除額要不要調整從108年開始這個長照扣除額一直就是定在每年就是12萬"},{"start":4812.373,"end":4834.18,"text":"那這個每年12萬其實隨著我們高齡化少子化的一個影響那是不是我們應該到了一個調整的時間了呢那我們其實我想在這裡跟部長探討的就是說你知道就是長照特別扣除了要什麼樣的條件才可以申請到他是一個非常嚴苛的條件啊"},{"start":4836.241,"end":4859.629,"text":"他必須要就是私能就是私能是到2到8級那我們的長照給付的一個服務那還必須要就是入主到這個機關室的那個長照機構90天他要住滿90天所以基本上他的條件是非常嚴苛尤其他規定他必須要是私能"},{"start":4860.769,"end":4882.844,"text":"所以就是說你的扣的錢從108年到現在一直一路都沒有調整那還有就是你的條件太嚴苛了那當然這個不是只有財政部不是只有財政部的一個問題還有衛福部的一個問題那你的胡老比跟你的申報的比例不成正比那怎麼辦呢"},{"start":4884.105,"end":4904.125,"text":"你想想看我的選區裡頭大概那個總申報數是6萬8千戶可是只有多少人申報只有3700戶去申請你這一個稅這麼好的一個稅結果利用的人這麼少那部長你怎麼看待"},{"start":4905.438,"end":4916.727,"text":"委員報告長照特別扣除額就一個人一年12萬但是這裏面除了這個長照特別扣除額之外我們還有對於身心障礙者他還可以扣一個人可以21萬8千那70歲以上的長者他的免稅額是比一般人來高1.5%"},{"start":4923.832,"end":4942.488,"text":"那也就是說目前來說是13萬8千所以總共可以扣掉一個人可以扣掉49萬3我想這個部分是有多項的一些減稅的措施那至於委員剛剛提到的適用的人這個部分我想我們主要還是要符合衛福部所公告的需要長期照顧的身心失能者這樣的一個條件我想這個部分我們會加強的宣導讓需要的人可以來申請"},{"start":4948.774,"end":4960.888,"text":" »:對從這個數字會講話絕對不是你的一個宣傳宣傳的單一個元素造成的你看他整個就是申報的複數這個%這麼少我想你應該要正視這些問題到底這些問題出在哪裡了"},{"start":4965.834,"end":4983.484,"text":"是跟委員說明一下那目前來說已經申請長照的部分在111年度有33萬戶適用但是這個案子的比例委員秀出來的比例是個總申報戶就是分母是全部的總申報戶上面是申請長照的扣除額的戶數但是不是每一戶都需要長照特別扣除額"},{"start":4987.646,"end":5014.341,"text":"當然啊,如果每一戶都要用到的話那就很慘啊可是你這個數字裡頭的話對,你這個數字裡頭呈現出來的就是太少了所以我還是希望就是說是不是需要調整這個規定況且你一定要去好好的研究一年12萬只能用半年那CP值一直都是在調了我們再來考慮,通盤的考慮"},{"start":5016.742,"end":5035.172,"text":"那接著跟那個部長討論入境的免稅額免稅額要不要調整什麼時候上路呢?要不要調整?你認為要不要調整?入境的免稅額是不是?這個部分我們預備要調高到三萬五千塊從兩萬條到三萬五千塊目前這個法規正在預告當中"},{"start":5040.123,"end":5065.416,"text":"什麼時候會公告?已經預告了,預告了。要到什麼時間截止?什麼時候會,就是整個宣布會落實呢?大概預計啦,跟委員報告大概是在年中左右。現在都還在行政中心進行當中。年中現在3月?那你的年中是幾月?6、7月左右,我們希望進化。那你如果超過了7月,就是下半年了?"},{"start":5067.575,"end":5077.164,"text":"所以沒有辦法有一個趕在上半年6月底以前一定會上路盡量趕盡量所以你也沒把握"},{"start":5078.603,"end":5098.328,"text":"現在都還在行政作業程序當中那行政作業可以提早啊你看這個已經就是從78年制定到現在都不曾調整過啊所以我想財政部應該就是說要承諾我想在午夜底以前午夜底以前可以嗎"},{"start":5101.669,"end":5114.483,"text":"委員您的期待有關上半年我們盡量來加快輸入五月底前有沒有機會幾月五月我們六月底前好不好六月底前我們來加快作業"},{"start":5115.524,"end":5142.523,"text":"是好謝謝哈我想這個進入外的那個網購哈已經成為民間就是我們民眾日常就是買東西的一個最主要最主要的一個那個門路了哈那這一個通路裡頭我們知道就是說你的應徵稅金額已經超過200億了這超過200億從2019年到2022年每年就是就是我們的那個報當量已經從"},{"start":5143.524,"end":5143.684,"text":"委員會委員會"},{"start":5152.326,"end":5166.91,"text":"這個到360億金外的網購就是已經跟我們的日常生活息息相關在這裡我要跟部長做一個探討的就是說你知道現在這個我從這個小額跨境的包括免稅的調整的原因是什麼2018那我們看得到就是說這個小額跨境免稅的這個"},{"start":5175.512,"end":5185.179,"text":"而度從原來的3000到半年六次調整到每一次最多是2000塊半年六次那你認為你後續還會怎麼樣來處理呢"},{"start":5189.468,"end":5202.833,"text":"目前我們這樣已經做了從3000調整為2000我想這個部分涉及到第一個是網購嘛 對不對那我們境內的賣家其實也要有一個公平因為境內的賣家都要繳稅啊那你從網購境外來的不繳稅所以這個部分要取得一個橫平性當然是要繳稅啊可是這麼環乎的一個繳稅你認為我們可以不可以有機會就是去做調整啊"},{"start":5215.299,"end":5229.535,"text":"我講這個有關呃程序部分當然這個部分我們可以來做盡量一個便捷我們朝這個方向來做是對我們當然希望就是他不會那個違反課稅平等的原則是的那我們是不是有一個"},{"start":5229.855,"end":5258.985,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":5259.025,"end":5273.954,"text":"那海關的人力其實也是我想部長安時代的來臨這個量大已經是完全可以克服的一個問題那如果就是說在日常的一個生活裡頭民眾的一個"},{"start":5274.514,"end":5298.2,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":5299.31,"end":5309.874,"text":"來克服來克服困難那怎麼樣努力怎麼克服我想就是如同委員所說的現在就第一個我們資訊部門怎麼提升然後運用有關現在的科技來盡量來做部長針對這個議題就是"},{"start":5314.554,"end":5328.722,"text":"一個月給我一個詳細的報告我們就這個部分來提供書面報告再來就是說供股行庫還有多少的外國債錢債務部長你有沒有掌握呢?"},{"start":5331.283,"end":5346.678,"text":"您所謂的外國債權就是指說國外的政府因為一般現在都是屬於商業性的貸款紅布拉斯他對於就是我們的一個就是斷交了以後他欠債了139億那外交部講說目前還是正常的"},{"start":5352.003,"end":5353.804,"text":"那還有多少是必須要追討的"},{"start":5378.652,"end":5401.294,"text":"你知道嗎?跟委員報告我們供股行庫對於這個所謂的國外債權的部分它都屬於國際性的商業貸款不管有沒有邦交其實都一樣也就是剛剛如同委員說的你只要借錢嘛你就要還本席那如果本席償還的正常那就是按照一般來做如果有違約的話當然他們會進行相關的保全程序"},{"start":5402.695,"end":5419.594,"text":"這是所有就是我們的有幫的一個貸款我們有沒有那個背底那個呆帳的一個損失有沒有做這樣的一個貸款有關那個貸款的部分銀行都必須要有背底都要有背底呆帳都有但是健美金還是會那個當地的一個幣值呢"},{"start":5421.796,"end":5449.548,"text":"嗯?我們是借給他美金還是借給他當地的幣值嗎?你要看個別的個案。看個別的個案?那宏都勞斯勒?輸出的銀行應該會有一些相關資料吧?這樣好不好委員?我們是不是回去再了解相關的資料?跟委員請教以後我們看看有什麼資料可以提供。所以顯然你也不是很了解?保了這麼多你還不了解?那這都已經上了新聞了?個案的部分對對對我們對是。"},{"start":5451.394,"end":5451.994,"text":"主席我請部長有請莊部長謝謝主席委員好"},{"start":5481.395,"end":5506.753,"text":"部長政府要健全投資管道那麼引導民間的油資避免熱錢過度投入房市這是政府一貫的政策那引導民間的油資我們看得到其實在民間投入"},{"start":5508.12,"end":5523.434,"text":"公共建設的部分公共工程的部分人家都有一定的量我比如說這幾年下來民間投資公共建設金額都維持在1800億以上就以這三年1888億到前年的2800億去年也都有1876億但是我們要引導"},{"start":5535.137,"end":5563.432,"text":"另外就是關於受險業他們有這麼龐大的資金但是他們投入公共建設的部分卻是逐年下滑本來他們受險那麼龐大的資金投入公共建設本來就不多然後從3年前開始我不客氣的講那叫雪崩式的下滑"},{"start":5565.523,"end":5588.068,"text":"你三年前355億那一路下來兩年前442億到去年啊竟然跌到只有112億我相信部長你應該非常清楚齁授權他們可以運用的資金那是不得了的龐大欸"},{"start":5589.997,"end":5607.942,"text":"那都兆元以上光我們講他這3年來28兆30兆累計到31兆31兆欸去年31兆可運用的授權資金竟然只有112億投入"},{"start":5611.463,"end":5631.225,"text":"公共建設而公共建設正是我們現在從中央到地方大家急於需要資金去投入的部分那結果受險資金不來公共建設把政府的政策呼籲放一邊"},{"start":5633.359,"end":5657.191,"text":"也就算了他還把錢拿去投入大量的投入房市所以難怪啊我們台灣的房地產難道難怪部長也怪啊難怪我們壽星階層親人朋友們買房完全買不起遙不可及的夢想啊所以我不曉得部長你們"},{"start":5659.619,"end":5679.952,"text":"徒罰不足以自刑不是嗎一定要政府的相關的部會要去監督要去除了引領之外後續給蘿蔔他不聽話不吃後面就是棒子啦"},{"start":5681.138,"end":5704.822,"text":"不是這樣子嗎那我認為財政部在這一塊則無旁貸你們應該出面你們可以找金管會一起看怎麼樣對壽險業來做一個要求你看喔我就講去年31兆壽險可運用的資金竟然只有0.03%啦"},{"start":5713.371,"end":5735.343,"text":"0.03% 萬分之三112億去投入公共建設部長我我們臺北市政府現在最迫切的捷運北環段南環段東環段光這個三個線總之呢我就不提我相信你很清楚光這三個線現在被"},{"start":5738.7,"end":5744.086,"text":"因為疫情的延誤規劃的延誤那造成的"},{"start":5745.546,"end":5761.676,"text":"以工資物料的上漲光這三線現在差額就差440億之多如果我們把細節稍微修訂如果我們能夠更早去引領受險業的資金來參與440億對受險可運用資金31兆而言懶散的就對了看不到的就對了"},{"start":5772.847,"end":5795.382,"text":"然後我們就光就講首都台北的捷運就不必延誤那麼多年啊那延誤多年以後都會造成我們社會成本的上漲嘛不是這樣嗎所以這個部分我覺得財政部已經到了刻不容緩的地步了我不曉得你們有沒有什麼打算什麼做法"},{"start":5796.688,"end":5819.697,"text":"謝謝委員的提示您的提見非常好第一個就是說對於公共建設的部分我們鼓勵各個機關它用促餐的模式來做也就是說不是都編公務預算來指引比如您剛剛講的軌道建設應該我們在國發會討論計劃的時候我們都會去看看它的日常性然後希望以促餐模式來辦那你以促餐模式的辦的話你就可以引進"},{"start":5819.957,"end":5838.285,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":5838.325,"end":5852.137,"text":"那保險業的部分我們希望他投入其實財政部已經做了很多努力第一個我們建議就是說修正保險法那這部分也在兩年前過了也就是保險公司他投注他希望能夠參與相關的一個營運所以讓他可以在公司裡面因為我們會成立一個特許公司比如說那個你公建的話通常會有個獨立的特許公司他可以派董事在裡面的席次"},{"start":5861.384,"end":5874.369,"text":"然後去經營這樣的一個事業第二個就是協力廠商因為保險業他要去投注各個不同的行業他不會自己經營比如說他經營長照他不會做他可以找協力廠商然後怎麼樣三方的合約怎麼樣來協議"},{"start":5879.091,"end":5900.637,"text":"但他可以去做其他的產業然後找協議成立一個三方的合約來做你說的這些就是給蘿蔔的部分可是強制的部分你可以強制我們修法給蘿蔔這當然應當可是因為他投資的那個比例已經過低嘛他一頭熱的投入不動產光109年就好光109年一年啊"},{"start":5906.408,"end":5930.242,"text":"他們投入不動產就1800億就抵了那三四年四年四年整個投資公共建設的金額然後他們每年除了1800億2000億大量金額投入不動產以外累計現在授權率已經一兆6500億在房地產上面"},{"start":5931.195,"end":5957.302,"text":"所以這當然你講對啦他受選資金來自於社會大眾他當然要往穩定的方向去但是我們政府已經給了一條路嘛你看那個部長我不是危言所聽我剛剛我本來只想跟你講這4年你要是從101年算起啊從我們已經有這一個規劃算起到現在第14年啊"},{"start":5959.042,"end":5967.702,"text":"你要是從101年算起啊他實際投入金額都大概都大概才一百來億"},{"start":5969.591,"end":5990.484,"text":"累積啊累積14年來他總共才投入一千兩百五十一億那累積喔累積他可運用我剛剛講嘛31兆這個不講光是講那你來投資公共建設我們有訂一個上限給他也要3兆一"},{"start":5991.565,"end":6005.856,"text":"三兆一千億三兆一千億這十四年來規定他要達到了標準的部分他累計只投入一千兩百五十一億累計這麼多他還有兩兆九千億該進來的他不進來那我剛剛跟你提光是我們台北"},{"start":6016.509,"end":6039.525,"text":"這麼重要的這北環東環南環就差440億而已耶然後他手上他還有兩兆九千億我們規定他要達到的金額喔所以我認為部長我認為要積極啦要積極我為什麼現在特別跟你講這個其實部長很多部會首長啦現在都開始數饅頭了啦"},{"start":6045.438,"end":6064.91,"text":"等著拍畢業照就對但我認為財政部、金管會、中央銀行絕對不行為什麼因為你們在這段時間其實你們可以做更做更特別的事情啦因為你現在下去要求你毫無其他顧忌嘛"},{"start":6065.851,"end":6084.33,"text":"你現在等於總檢討嘛總檢討說這麼多年來受檢驗把政府既定的政策好意不當一回事不當一回事啊他現在擺那麼多在那邊那當然啊為了說保障"},{"start":6085.427,"end":6111.765,"text":"那個保險人的權益讓他知道他說那我不得已我就去買不動產好啦我們要他說那你不動產那你至少不要買住家的不要買住宅的我買住宅的他去買商辦一樣也是另外一種炒作不是嗎另外一種炒作不是嗎所以我認為部長可以很積極的做很多事我希望是不是你可以"},{"start":6112.899,"end":6134.393,"text":"馬上跟金管會聯繫說要求這一些不管是IEIT這些基金這個受選這些基金要引導而且要求他們投入公共建設或者綠色的建設這是政府鼓勵也是全民所期待的嘛"},{"start":6135.302,"end":6135.522,"text":"接下來我們請吳立華委員質詢"},{"start":6167.539,"end":6170.722,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長有請莊部長委員好部長好我們看到經濟部他在3月1號有預告一個加薪減稅的草案那部長知道嗎"},{"start":6189.371,"end":6202.077,"text":"我們看到2022年的主計調查他是這麼說公司的規模越大加薪調升的比例就會越高也就是說我們應該要去想"},{"start":6202.657,"end":6225.922,"text":"怎麼誘導中小企業來幫員工加薪那我們看到過去的一個做法在2016年的時候有修正一個中小企業發展條例那希望透過租稅優惠來帶動加薪那他的一個做法他有幾個條件那我們來複習一下第一個就是說他的失業率呢要連續6個月要高於3.78%"},{"start":6229.583,"end":6250.021,"text":"另外一個補助就是月均5萬元以下的基層員工再來就是抵減率130%的營所稅的一個扣減額結果我們來看一下結果就是這麼樣做之後只有萬分之四"},{"start":6250.822,"end":6268.218,"text":"的員工也就是3738名員工他有平均加薪到1338元那請教部長這樣子的一個效果是好的還是不好的第一個當然委員整理得非常清楚是不好的所以這次修正就針對這個問題來做解決"},{"start":6270.909,"end":6287.382,"text":"您覺得問題出在哪裡?如果是您的話您會做哪一些對症下藥的策略?我們經過跟財政部討論第一個就是有關這個門檻要達到一個一定的指數達到一定的情形之下這個就把它拿掉因為這個部分"},{"start":6287.782,"end":6305.55,"text":"在試用上所以一直動用沒有動用過那第二個部分對5萬元以下基層員工的加薪也做了一個調整把它調高到6萬塊那可以試用的一個員工可以更多第三個部分就是加薪費用抵減率的130%呢增加到150%這樣子的話可扣減的稅額就可以比較多我想這個部分很實務另外在時間上呢也把它延長到10年吧"},{"start":6316.795,"end":6342.533,"text":"十年那適用時間長我想這個部分最主要就是實施以後我們發現問題希望能夠去解決然後讓適用的中小企業可以更多讓他們可以達到真正的加薪部長你真的很棒完全正確100分跟我準備的資料一樣不過我還是要來講一下當然我們很多這些中小企業他不需要繳銀索稅他就不是用這個租稅優惠"},{"start":6344.574,"end":6370.27,"text":"那大部分呢採擴大書審製的話因為他相對簡單但是他有他的缺點沒有辦法計算到他的薪資嘛所以呢就沒有辦法去抵減這個租稅優惠所以我們來看一下您剛剛講的都對經濟部3月1號預告的這個加薪減稅他就是對症下藥他去做了您剛才所說的那一些對策好但是我還是要問部長這樣問題就可以解決了嗎"},{"start":6375.069,"end":6376.59,"text":"所以我們今天才會來到這裡是吧是是是好那我就是要跟您說了"},{"start":6399.389,"end":6404.315,"text":"您也很清楚為什麼我們要到財政部這邊來問這個問題因為這8年來採取這個擴大書審制的有增無減我這邊的數據是77%將近八成"},{"start":6414.426,"end":6436.76,"text":"那如果說按照他們這個營業額1000萬的這個小工廠我們來試算一下他的營業額1000萬乘以他的存益率6%乘以他的所得稅率20%他的稅是12萬那現在他為了要來因應這個3月1號的加薪減稅方案的話我們來看一下假設他的員工有6人"},{"start":6437.64,"end":6465.891,"text":"那他想幫這個6個人每個月加薪1000塊再乘以他提高的減除率150%乘以所得稅率他可以結稅2.16萬看起來好像是不錯但是呢他會有幾個問題第一個問題在這樣的一個狀況之下他原來的擴大書審12萬的所得稅他呢為了要適用他增加了7.2萬元的加薪支出那他為了要適用"},{"start":6466.431,"end":6479.87,"text":"他就去改裁查賬申報所以他的計賬費會增加然後再加上減除他的一個減稅的2.16萬那我就是想要問一下您應該很清楚划算還是不划算"},{"start":6481.343,"end":6498.592,"text":"我們剛剛所提的一個這樣計算公式很明顯他會增加計算費的一些支出是嗎?不划算嗎?對對對所以你看這種3000萬元以下的中小企業有將近八成他是採擴大書甚至如果他為了要因應這個方案"},{"start":6500.033,"end":6522.626,"text":"還要去做一個查賬申報那他又擔心會被國稅局查賬所以我們就可以想像這個應該是他的一個困難一個他的障礙門檻那另外還有一個問題就是有大概三成的就是有87萬家他是屬於獨資合夥的中小企業那這個部分你應該也很清楚"},{"start":6523.647,"end":6547.337,"text":"他本來就沒有銀索稅嘛吼那這樣的一個員工他要怎麼樣去引導他的一個加薪政策因為這樣的員工數還不少大約佔了33%所以呢我想這個部分其實都是一個障礙那我想部長我們總是要有一些方法嘛其實今天來也是想要問財政部有沒有什麼方法"},{"start":6547.757,"end":6572.851,"text":"以過去來講在那個2018年的時候為了要因應一律一修那那個時候銀索稅採擴大書審他有一個存益率打9折那他也有他的一個步驟如果擴大書審呢無法反映人事成本增加那如果他有依法為勞工投保勞健保那如果怎麼樣怎麼樣他可以適用存益率他可以乘以90%打9折"},{"start":6574.972,"end":6601.142,"text":"那現在我就是說好那我們可不可以比照類似的做法是拋磚引玉的您應該有更好的想法如果說他要去填這樣的一個表格他只要勾機勞健保那我們就去可以設計加薪到達多少達標就打幾折達標多少就打幾折那我想這個部分你們可以自己去試算那不曉得部長您覺得怎麼樣我只是要說"},{"start":6602.522,"end":6620.7,"text":"經濟部已經預告這個調整啟動的門檻財政部應該要主動積極的協助處理這個後端減稅的問題因為我們會覺得說違德不足啦那我們也不曉得說到底是不適用還是說不想用那也許我想這個部分只是要提醒"},{"start":6621.36,"end":6642.213,"text":"因為這個稅的部分恐怕還是最重要的一個因素那過去的歷史經驗我們也看到如果政府出一筆錢去做補助加薪那個應該是失敗的所以大家都會朝這個方向所以希望說我們財政部針對這個部分是不是可以有一個報告讓我們來參考參考可以嗎"},{"start":6645.455,"end":6647.497,"text":"議員提到要評估的這樣的一個報告是不是讓我們以書面的方式來回覆那是不是時間各位容許我們有兩個月"},{"start":6666.854,"end":6669.296,"text":"我們其實原住民最大的資產就是土地很多啦雖然不值錢我們也是正在想辦法讓他值錢"},{"start":6682.808,"end":6705.507,"text":"但是我們看到國外像紐西蘭這邊有一個最大的商城它本來是軍事基地但是毛利人就把這塊地要回來發展成一個大型的購物商區那店家就會繳納租金給他們的這個部落那部落就設立一個信託然後運用這些錢再去做其他事那反觀我們國內這樣的東西幾乎沒有很少"},{"start":6709.07,"end":6725.094,"text":""},{"start":6725.214,"end":6750.165,"text":"我聽很多的鄉跟我說哎呀不可能啦做不到他有一些缺失因為負擔很大像他申請一千萬要自籌四千萬然後一千萬呢還要繳回那開發的地熱的費用呢成本真的是很大所以也無法吸引民間投資參與這是一回事但是我說起碼已經有開始這種東西那我現在知道財政部這邊有出餐辦法嘛"},{"start":6751.205,"end":6778.017,"text":"但是我們發現說好像鄉公所他不能夠作為一個主辦機關所以我這邊只是簡單要來講因為按照目前的辦法如果公所他要做的話他有一個縣市政府委辦機關他只能夠走委辦的路徑但是委辦你就知道啊有時候還要看跟縣市政府關係好不好啊還有很多什麼權利義務的關係目前呢也沒有明文規定所以我是想說部長"},{"start":6780.139,"end":6793.394,"text":"針對處參法第5條的主辦機關我是希望您要求納入鄉鎮市包含六都的原民區公所好不好那我希望一個月內提供一個評估的書面報告可以嗎"},{"start":6794.275,"end":6813.766,"text":"我們這個部分來做一個評估還有一個小小的東西現在我知道我們想要去調整這個營業稅特種稅額的查定費用標準等級表只有一個小問題因為很久沒調所以要調我只是覺得說要考慮城鄉差距這邊只有8級可不可以改成10級"},{"start":6816.917,"end":6822.662,"text":"我們來通盤在檢討當中是好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝委員謝謝吳立法委員的質詢緊接著我們請顏匡衡委員質詢主席各位略席委員主席我請財政部莊部長有請莊部長"},{"start":6847.984,"end":6874.459,"text":"委員好部長早部長今天的那個我看到我們那個預算解凍報告裡面那有提到就是這個稅務人員的獎勵金的部分獎勵金的部分那目前是以什麼規範什麼法來規範來發放呢可不可以告訴我們一下"},{"start":6877.905,"end":6901.773,"text":"委員說明我們稅務獎勵金的編列的法律依據是全國軍公教員工待遇支給要點的第7點以及行政院核定的財政部核發稅務獎勵金作業要點這部分那這個部分事實上也經過司法院4至391號的解釋跟520號的解釋都是屬於措施性的法律形式上是跟法律相當所以它具有法律法源"},{"start":6903.501,"end":6926.759,"text":"正正的法源就是你們提到立法院的這些三讀的預算措施性法律也是沒錯也是經過立法院審議通過的當時那個監察院不是也有要求說要對於這樣子的一個來做出更全面的檢討監察院啊"},{"start":6928.849,"end":6938.327,"text":"我想監察院這個部分的一個要求那我們想我們在這個目前來說也就是剛剛跟委員所報告的這個稅務獎勵金還有其他機關發給的個別獎勵金都是經過"},{"start":6941.723,"end":6968.27,"text":"大院審議通過那所以根據在剛剛司法院的釋制都是屬於相當的法律性質然後措施性的一個法律那我們也跟監察院一致也都有做一個說明是那你們在這個解凍案裡面報告書說是為了激勵公務人員的士氣那我想這個稅務獎勵金的部分在每一次預算的會期當中都會被提出來被凍結然後再"},{"start":6969.87,"end":6991.327,"text":"在做這樣子的一個處理那你們偷動法制化的進度如何我這個部分我們持續會跟那個權序部還有人事總處的部分來做溝通我們也希望能夠做這個能夠有研擬相關的法律來做立法的進程這是我們一直在努力做的事"},{"start":6992.148,"end":7007.921,"text":"那我想這個部分稅務獎勵金可以激勵我們的同仁我想很辛苦那我想這個是有必要的那也請委員跟大院能夠支持他可不可以請教部長那這個獎勵金的部分他支領的數額會依照值等的差異不同嗎我們是看他對於這個業務的貢獻度來支給對來發給"},{"start":7017.554,"end":7032.859,"text":"那所以既然是要提升這個稅務人員的士氣那應該最辛苦的也是第一線的第一線人員這個部分我們一定會照做那應該是說要鼓勵這些第一線人員而不是說讓自己"},{"start":7034.419,"end":7055.892,"text":"對,讓我們的同仁再可以有一些士氣跟鼓勵,做一些正面的鼓勵,謝謝對,就是說不應該說讓長官自肥啦應該是要讓我們的這些稅務人員辛苦的稅務人員,因為他們這個工作跟職務是很勞累啦是,很沉重,對對對對對對,所以說那我可不可以說"},{"start":7058.706,"end":7081.371,"text":"其實這個獎勵金的部分一直被人家詬病認為說就好像是在分紅的概念沒有不是這個是說這個外面詬病嘛大家會認為說你查稅本來就是你的職責所有人員就是要查稅但是因為你查稅之後又有分紅獎金就是有這個績效激勵獎金那所以會變成說讓外界的觀感不好"},{"start":7082.431,"end":7093.643,"text":"認為說是在分紅所以我才說剛剛才提到說法制化的部分是不是有在進行的過程當中現在階段或什麼時候會"},{"start":7095.02,"end":7116.253,"text":"整個法制化完成是如同跟委員報告如同剛剛說因為涉及到權序部還有人事總署的權責那財政部也一直都跟他們在溝通希望能夠法制化那也謝謝委員對我們稅務同仁的鼓勵以及肯定對他們的心腦對他們的一個理解是既然說第一個工作這個工作"},{"start":7117.281,"end":7117.621,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":7135.723,"end":7136.043,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":7157.36,"end":7162.929,"text":"我們的復稅的稅制也好稅政也好有所貢獻的同仁我們給予激勵那當然對第一線的同仁因為他服務納稅者的說明等等也要更加的鼓勵"},{"start":7171.243,"end":7198.22,"text":"除了查稅之外還有其他的哪些工作可以得到這個評定機由來獲得這些獎金呢?就如同剛剛講的比如說在我們複稅署主要就是有關法規的修訂還有適度的一些建立那在我們的地方的話它執行相關的計畫然後推動很多的變名措施的部分也都是我們會納入考慮的一個給予獎金的平和的一個重點"},{"start":7200.27,"end":7224.297,"text":"好部長接下來我再請問一下因為我接受到很多的陳請學校的陳請那針對台中市的這個私立高中子那對於國有地的問題因為台中市在縣市合併之後有許多的土地仍然是國產屬所有那目前遇到的狀況就是學校的主管機關是台中市教育局"},{"start":7225.157,"end":7250.609,"text":"但是土地跟使用方式是屬於國產署那後續的校舍維修改建以及土地使用會很困難學校在運作上困難重重國產署能不能主動來針對這些問題做一個清查同盤性的辦理移撥或者是這個學校無力管理的部分由你們來收回進行管理可以嗎"},{"start":7253.539,"end":7267.558,"text":"跟委員報告我們國產署管理的國有非公用土地對於學校因為要做公務用的或公共用的話都可以依照國產法規定來辦理撥用而且在程序上都盡量給予便捷"},{"start":7267.978,"end":7291.613,"text":"adequ部份是沒有問題也就是撥用以後雖然是國有全屬是國有但是他的管理機關就會成為是實際的管理機關那他就可以去做管理依照他的權責可以去做管理那委員提到有關相關的問題我想這個部份是不是可以讓我們國產署這個部份看看他實務上有沒有接受到這個學校的相關反應的問題然後我們去做協助處理是不是可以讓國產署署長來說好"},{"start":7293.934,"end":7311.428,"text":"拜託委員我想台中一中或二中從國立改成勢力第一個他使用國有土地的權利不會受損也就是說他可以是台中市所辖的這些高級中協他使用的國有土地"},{"start":7312.969,"end":7336.728,"text":"產權還是登記中華民國管理機關也是一樣還是維持學校所以他的權利不會受損第二個如果他有需要重新使用或利用國有土地的部分剛剛部長有報告過他可以來辦撥用只不過以前他是送到交易部轉到財政部這裡來他以後是要送到台中市政府"},{"start":7341.572,"end":7357.267,"text":" »:對,因為就我目前掌握到了他不只是因為管理的問題還加上也有占用的問題有些甚至於在學校在建校之前就被占用了"},{"start":7358.207,"end":7374.539,"text":"但第一個他本身就沒有能力去管理那些那麼大的這些土地再加上被佔用而且學校本身他的人也不足預算也不足然後還要去管理這些有可能也不是在學校內部他的土地是在學校外部所以這些我想"},{"start":7375.935,"end":7397.942,"text":"報告委員我想如果學校在他們之前使用如果符合8272已經被佔用的他可以來接洽我們國產署變更為非公用移回來那我們再依照規定跟對佔用人或的部分如果符合陳出我們會讓他來陳出那土地就會移到國產署來管就不會有學校了"},{"start":7398.832,"end":7411.365,"text":"我想各案的部分請兩個學校可以跟我們中區分屬這邊我們可以給他協助因為學校對這個國有財產的管理可能比較那麼陌生我想我們會主動來協助"},{"start":7413.155,"end":7436.106,"text":"因為這第一個他你要他去做管理這麼多其實是強人所難那剛剛提到署長你提到這部分就是說我們還是盡速的來辦理後續這些東西那如果非他們管理的我們就把他移撥回來好不好好謝謝謝謝委員這我們來主動協助謝謝顏寬元委員的質詢接著我們請李昆城委員質詢"},{"start":7445.366,"end":7447.315,"text":"謝謝主席 那我們請莊部長有請莊部長"},{"start":7452.932,"end":7475.929,"text":"委員好來部長好這個5月份開始報稅了那這個大家也就開始會辛苦了那本席請教一下部長這個過去這個有這個公司他因為詐騙受損那按照你們的規定說如果公司詐騙受損呢如果據證明他可以准列當年的損失在過去有這個案例"},{"start":7476.63,"end":7506.63,"text":"​​​​​​​​"},{"start":7507.411,"end":7529.43,"text":"他們應該有更高的管理的風險才對但是對於公司如果說詐騙或是貸款被欠債你們都可以列為一頁上的損失但是請教部長如果因為詐騙案損失金額個人的綜合所得稅不可以列舉扣除"},{"start":7531.967,"end":7559.802,"text":"委員報告您剛剛提的有關盈利事業的部分那盈利事業根據我們的所得稅法規定你可以扣掉的費用損失是以你經營本業跟復屬事業所造成的你的費用成本的支出會有損失但是你如果是被外面的詐騙集團騙的這個部分如果你一開始的時候他因為要又要讓你上鉤嗎可能給他一點好處然後呢之後付出了更多那只是那個好處的部分可以不用"},{"start":7560.542,"end":7571.268,"text":"但是如果他被詐騙那個金額是不能列到這個所謂的扣除裡面的因為不是跟他經營本業跟附屬事業相關的所以在這個公司他們經營本業被內部的人騙了"},{"start":7576.209,"end":7599.498,"text":"所以可以當作這一個營業的損失但是如果說我們個人被外面的人騙了就詐騙被騙了這些詐騙的金額不能列為我們這一個綜合所得稅的這個扣舉額來列出那個是他的那個職員去侵占他的貨款那個還要跟因為是跟經營本業跟副主事業是相關的"},{"start":7601.518,"end":7623.788,"text":"所以這個前提是要看他跟經營本業跟復處事業是不是相關那你也知道說現在詐騙這其實是這個案件非常多這個詐騙累積金額也非常的龐大然後對於這一個受害人來講這個過去有修法有通過就是說那你如果因為當時候你詐騙的過程當中雖然你有獲得一些"},{"start":7624.898,"end":7635.327,"text":"稍稍的利潤但是如果那個小小利潤沒有超過被詐騙的金額那個是不扣稅的嘛對不對那現在就是說也很多人在現在在成績又說他們被詐騙了詐騙金額呢這個"},{"start":7639.1,"end":7665.598,"text":"對他們來講是非常的高那在這個時候呢如果按照說公司的相關規定這個被內部人詐騙了可以列抵這個損失那為什麼個人他的這個部分因為被詐騙了他沒有辦法呢列為這個財產的交易損失因為按照你們所得稅法的規定第14條還有第17條規定如果是屬於財產損失的話是可以扣除的"},{"start":7668.258,"end":7673.081,"text":"對於這方面的話目前在修法在上面有沒有辦法說給予這些被害人他們有稍微一點補償的一些方法"},{"start":7688.543,"end":7711.361,"text":"這個部分可能要跟所得稅法一個法制的一個精神要相符合我想在修法上還是要在一個大的原則之下所以被騙就是說你就是你個人的不小心你個人沒有注意到風險那所以說在這個這個你的這個所得稅上面沒有辦法因為你被詐騙了然後這個當作你這個個人的交易的損失"},{"start":7711.681,"end":7741.681,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":7741.681,"end":7770.947,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":7771.535,"end":7788.503,"text":"總計所得者呢他可以扣抵的金額也都有我不是跟你講詐騙不是講這個那我其他你們這一些狀況那本期再請教一下部長加熱菸現在可不可以帶進來加熱菸的部分又從菸害防治法修正以後很清楚他是屬於指定菸品"},{"start":7788.902,"end":7806.367,"text":"那他必須要經過健康風險評估以後才可以輸入或者是製造啊所以說現在的這個有沒有任何一家公司有通過這個健康風險評估沒有就我們所知並沒有啊所以現在帶進來都是不合法的都是違規的對現在所以在我們海關那邊就會有一些"},{"start":7808.173,"end":7831.853,"text":"我看一下規定,這個煙害防治法是去年3月差不多這個時候通過的然後從去年3月22到今年的這個2月底在海關有查扣了11萬4994條加熱煙當然現在是由地方衛生機關來做處理這一年的時間這一個有查扣11萬到底是大家認為說煙害防治法通過是可以帶進來"},{"start":7832.534,"end":7849.889,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":7850.881,"end":7856.364,"text":"報告委員,這個我們都有盡量在做一些宣導跟宣傳。對啊,這個盡量在宣導。就是說,這個就106年到112年,這個《宴會法》修正前,大概查扣了大概10萬條。"},{"start":7865.79,"end":7882.901,"text":"但是呢從去年這個修正過後到今年的哇這一年的時間查扣了11萬條比過去這個五年的時間都還要多欸這過去才10萬條這去年一年就查扣了大概11萬條那如果按照這一個我不曉得啦就是說為什麼這去年的一年會查扣這麼多條"},{"start":7884.426,"end":7893.951,"text":"根委員報告的確在修法當下可能有些人預期說修法即將通過所以所有的加熱菸沒有通過健康風險評估都不能進來所以那時候有試著要闖關都被海關攔下來所以去年是有稍微查獲的數量比較多按照我手邊的數字目前有10家的菸商提出這個健康風險評估然後按照這個沿海防治法第7條第4項的規定"},{"start":7912.822,"end":7936.071,"text":"然後呢就是說必須要在滿3個月之後銷毀就是說在去年如果去年被查到的話大概在6月的時候要銷毀那你們已經銷毀了大概9萬4千多條那現在還有1萬多條這個還沒有銷毀因為他們有申請這一個健康風險評估啦那請問一下那接下來這1萬多條命運如何"},{"start":7941.004,"end":7962.375,"text":"繼續銷毀嗎?還是等待風險評估出來?報告委員依照剛剛新通過的原來防治法第7條第5項的規定就是必須等到他是不是通過健康風險評估之後海關才有辦法來處理那所以衛福部那邊只要一直沒有通過就一直會留在海關就對了那過去是因為說那一個"},{"start":7963.285,"end":7964.407,"text":"那如果有通過勒?"},{"start":7976.843,"end":8004.023,"text":"有通過的話就是可以在3個月內來領回那領回是說你當時候貸多少就領回多少嗎跟委員報告目前是這樣子因為他是屬於修法前被海關扣押的他是比較特殊的當時是認為說加熱菸的屬性未定那後來菸奶防治法去年3月22號通過了才認為他是一個指定菸品所以說我的問題在於說如果"},{"start":8006.184,"end":8032.238,"text":"那沒有通過那當然就是一直留在那邊嗎?阿如果有通過勒?有通過阿怎麼領回?是帶多少領回多少嗎?還是怎麼樣?還是說像現在的這一個因為現在你們對於這一個煙品是可以帶一條進來嗎?對一般的煙品對那對於加熱煙勒?目前是規定是一條都不行對啦我是說如果風險評估過了之後他是怎麼這個免稅的數額是多少?"},{"start":8033.263,"end":8043.559,"text":"跟委員報告即使他通過健康風險評估的話目前的規定以目前的規定一條也沒有免稅的規定一條也沒有免稅的規定是加熱菸"},{"start":8045.166,"end":8067.674,"text":"所以不符合免稅的規定就對了是不是要一條給予比照指引免稅這個我們跟國建署還有國庫署這邊都還在持續研議當中其實我認為這是要同步啦就是說因為健康風險評估那邊衛福部在做那你們在這邊做的是屬於免稅那到底政策上是要免稅還是不用免稅"},{"start":8069.414,"end":8098.672,"text":"一條的部分一條的部分免稅是交熱業算一條一條的部分免稅這個目前都還沒有開放對啊對啊我說日後勒日後還不知道對因為要看那個國建署那邊他是依照這個煙害防治的精神還有國庫署那邊是煙品的管理還有海關這個通關的一個程序我們都還要再考慮所以現在就還不知道就對了這煙害防治法也通過一年了那你們這方面的這一個相關的規定都還沒有做出來"},{"start":8099.825,"end":8127.38,"text":"多有跟三個部位都積極在演上目前那單位應該就是還沒有做出來啦是是可是剛剛你還沒有回答問題那如果說一萬多條風險評估通過之後呢是怎麼領回也是比如說這是哪一條嗎還是說還是怎麼樣目前是應該可以全數領但是他必須要繳稅後才能放行哦就可以繳稅之後全數因為現在還沒有免稅就對了對對免稅的數額你們也還沒有確定就對了對是OK啊所以那也不知道哪時候會會會"},{"start":8128.941,"end":8142.447,"text":"會知道結果就對了就跟健康風景評估一樣就對了好謝謝李坤城委員的質詢我們待會在李秉瑞質詢之後休息10分鐘接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢謝謝主席我請部長我請中央部長"},{"start":8159.554,"end":8169.179,"text":"委員好是部長我想我們臺灣最嚴重的問題大概還是回到居住正義那在相關的政府在租金"},{"start":8170.419,"end":8197.243,"text":"房租緩漲跟房市緩漲的努力之下有用了非常多的租稅工具但是你認為有沒有達到所謂的居住爭議的效果尤其是在央行總裁我們在質詢他的時候他也說過了他提出的是選擇性的信用管制可是政府又做了新清安貸款又把房市撐住了那現在健全房市成了變成"},{"start":8198.72,"end":8206.399,"text":"政府之間左手打右手你認不認同政府應該有一致的做法來做到居住正義"},{"start":8207.355,"end":8229.289,"text":"跟委員報告居住正義是我們一直在這個條路上去走採取相關的一個措施所以居住正義不能做一半嘛對對當然那個各項措施那有關租稅的部分比如說社宅的包租代管公益出租人的這個戶數都逐漸的上升因為我們有相關的戶稅減少政府不斷的在鼓勵"},{"start":8230.53,"end":8256.055,"text":"所謂的公益出租所謂的包租貸款付稅也做了非常多的優惠但是看起來這邊要跟部長討論的就是我們防護稅條例跟住宅法都已經修訂了也把自住跟公益出租人出租使用的同等待遇而且也很多的人也開始做公益出租人但是按照內政部估算全台的租屋圖大概有300萬人"},{"start":8257.515,"end":8283.873,"text":"那依照我們擴大所謂租金補貼的收入門檻六都以外的縣市大概是每個人每個月4萬2千多可是40%的受僱員工目前統計上面是低於這個門檻也就是說全台灣的租屋族裡面大概有120萬人可以適用所謂的租金補貼可是現在的公益出租人只有12萬也就是我有120萬人適合"},{"start":8288.468,"end":8304.125,"text":"但是只有12萬的公益出租人願意拿房子出來租給符合租金補貼的人你覺得問題出在哪裡也就十分之一的人來做公益出租人表示公益出租人的誘因沒有那麼大不是嗎"},{"start":8305.976,"end":8331.237,"text":"這個部分事實上還需要讓更多的房東可以知道這樣的一個事情因為很多房東可能對這個部分還...房東都知道只是房東會去算划不划算房東不可能不知道這12萬的公益出租人拿出來租了他將來碰到了一個問題就是可能之前大家討論過很多次的還有沒有更好的付稅優惠"},{"start":8332.598,"end":8357.279,"text":"如果他今天當了公益出租人拿出來租房子可是他將來在轉賣的時候一樣還是會受到土地增值稅必須要一年甚至五年這樣的時程才能夠所謂的享有自用住宅的一生一世所以就這個部分公益出租人並沒有在土地增值稅轉賣的時候得到更多的優惠不是嗎"},{"start":8358.646,"end":8370.851,"text":"因為跟委員報告現在公益出租人的話第一個他的租金所得的部分一個月有15000塊是可以免稅那超過的部分他的費用的比例也比一般的費用比例高可以到60你知道他能夠節省的稅負只有幾千塊但是他移轉轉賣的時候他的增值稅會從10%跟20%的差距將近幾十萬是"},{"start":8382.995,"end":8402.312,"text":"這兩個的差距就會讓很多的人不願意來當公益出租人這才是問題嘛那在因為土地增值稅的時候你要適用優惠稅率必須是要自用嘛就是剛剛委員所提到兩年或五年這個部分那我想這個部分其實漲價歸公因為他是有交易他就漲價的部分我同意啦"},{"start":8403.853,"end":8418.703,"text":"我的意思是說如果我當了公益出租人我應該在這個所謂的我必須損失一年的租金上面再給他多一點的誘因也就是說這個一年的時程其實在公益出租人可以有個例外的條款"},{"start":8420.215,"end":8440.553,"text":"這樣的誘因會讓公益出租人更願意多拿他的房子出來因為他不會受到必須要一年不能出租這樣子的事實狀態而且他當了公益出租人他已經對這個國家社會有一些貢獻我的意思是如果我們要做就做全套這全套在土地增值稅的部分也應該"},{"start":8442.935,"end":8469.469,"text":"來設想一下公益出租人他的誘因可以再增加或者是說在這一年的時程裡面給他一些優惠的其他的條款部長同意嗎我想委員這個部分因為土地增值稅是屬於地方稅那地方稅的而且對他們來說如果按照剛剛的講起來其實他佔了非常非常少的比例也就是這12萬戶他的比例佔地方的土地增值稅的比例也不會太高"},{"start":8471.09,"end":8489.73,"text":"這是我們如果政府要做對公益出租人相關的優惠的話這部分也可以列入考慮我想這個部分涉及到地方政府的地方稅可能要審慎的一個考慮然後再加上其實我想未來的公益出租人的戶數應該會逐年上升你的囤房稅這些稅也都是地方稅啊是這樣的問題嗎"},{"start":8491.011,"end":8519.072,"text":"我們如果要做相關的這些稅賦的改善我希望在公益出租人這邊也開始去思考怎麼給他更多的優惠這是第一點。好嗎?我想公益出租人包括居住正義包括現在內政部他所提出的一些相關的方案我覺得政府常常左手打右手我們到底是要推居住正義還是不要如果要就做全套而不是做半套居住正義是我們一直都在努力的"},{"start":8519.893,"end":8536.718,"text":"ifically部長也可以給我一個相關對於這個土地增值稅有沒有可能在公益出租金上面再做一些優惠你們回去研議一下好嗎可以我們再給您書面報告接下來的部分就是我想問一下我們現在2月份又超收了吧超徵稅收"},{"start":8538.514,"end":8557.595,"text":"二月份我想這個跟委員報告沒有所謂超收就是我們可以跟委員報告去年增加大概跟委員報告一下到二月為底的稅收情況因為你三月可能ETF又會超增很多所以今年你會覺得今年會超增嗎?"},{"start":8558.888,"end":8573.52,"text":"跟委員報告因為現在是到2月為止我們全國稅收是達到3185億那中央是2206億那是比去年同期是增加的那主要的稅收增加最多的不可否認是政交稅因為每"},{"start":8574.781,"end":8597.687,"text":"因為那個每日的成交值算是高的所以政交稅比去年增加很多營業稅跟中所稅是增加的接下來但是我們現在在調國庫署的資料有關每年其實我們都在花很多的錢因為包括特別預算都陸續的在支出所以去年我們就付錢就付了4.1兆那特別預算就是達到1.4兆"},{"start":8599.867,"end":8610.712,"text":"財政部推估今年的收支會短促還是會有所謂的超收?就預算來說總預算來說目前來說是短收但是還是要看稅收的情況跟委員報告比如說像112年的話我們的總預算裡面也是短收但是因為稅收超過預算數所以我們在舉債的部分1730而已沒有舉債而且增加還債"},{"start":8624.538,"end":8642.248,"text":"我們怎麼超收但是我們還是有舉債的問題因為我們將來的特別預算的支付會越來越沉重這也是審計部也做了相關的報告所以接下來去看到主計出的推估到2025會短差2000億2026會短差1000多億"},{"start":8645.33,"end":8658.371,"text":"所以超收不應該是成為我們高度依賴的不確定因素我希望說現在的超收如果能夠只有兩個原則嘛第一個是少花錢第二是多還債"},{"start":8659.471,"end":8662.794,"text":"如果按照現在的狀況我們去年多還了1100億如果這樣的話財政部能不能估今年有沒有可能再多還多少錢跟委員報告去年我們是還了1260億就是說除了預算邊的1111億我們又多還了150億然後1732億原來要舉借的也沒有舉借"},{"start":8682.108,"end":8701.596,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":8701.716,"end":8730.144,"text":"超收不要成為人民的假象我們不希望說這邊超收那邊再舉債這是一個事實上狀況而且會每年都告訴大家我們超收很多還可以發6000塊但是政府的舉債並沒有減少這才是我們的問題最後一個問題就是有關台彩公司他在大年初四的時候曾經發生系統設定錯誤然後讓民眾買不到彩券然後後來的補救措施"},{"start":8732.011,"end":8742.081,"text":"部長覺得滿意嗎?這件事情第一個他是讓他買得到也就是說他提早那個就是說他用那個對講時間就有點要變成第二天的這個怎麼會出這種錯啊對對對對這個不應該排查已經那麼久了而且怎麼會是所謂的內控人員疏失這是什麼問題你們查過了沒有"},{"start":8750.95,"end":8776.705,"text":"我們有查也徹底我們馬上就請台台公司做處理而且他們也做了補救措施但是部長我們發現了一個很嚴重的問題就是你們查了但是依照供應採券發行條例目前為止對於這種內控失道的狀況好像國庫署說沒有任何罰則是嗎你沒有辦法處罰他嗎那以後再發生還是一樣嗎只是寫個報告"},{"start":8779.099,"end":8780.82,"text":"國庫署給我的資料有問題是嗎?我的問題就是說內控內機是重要的"},{"start":8801.477,"end":8822.754,"text":"而且這種是我們彩券對人民的公信力彩券是小老百姓都會去購買的發生這種事情會造成政府公信力的損失如果你有裁罰把相關資料給我那個相關的裁罰如果說是嚴重損害彩券公信力要停止我只問你這個案子有沒有裁罰這目前因為我們認定還沒有到嚴重到要停止所以你認為這是小事"},{"start":8823.755,"end":8832.146,"text":"但是他們相關的財財公司如果你要訂出相關的財閥的話你可能也要告訴我這個案子你為什麼認為是小事好嗎?謝謝"},{"start":8850.785,"end":8853.447,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部莊部長有請莊部長兩號部長那個中國的四川喔去年年底又爆發嚴重的非洲豬瘟的大幅傳染"},{"start":8867.85,"end":8892.95,"text":"那當然非洲豬瘟這個問題在中國存在很久而且不容易根絕那又大幅爆發但是這個因為我們台灣現在不是疫區之前行政團隊都做得很好把這個擋在國門之外但是我們中國來的旅客所攜帶的違禁的這些肉品如果照目前給的資料仍然"},{"start":8894.862,"end":8907.542,"text":"這個非洲豬瘟陽性的比例還有將近12%左右12點多%所以狀況還是很嚴峻那你有沒有什麼樣的方法可以保證說我們絕對有能力可以把它擋在這個國門之外"},{"start":8908.88,"end":8925.135,"text":"是謝謝委員的非洲豬瘟主在國境之外一直是我們海關不敢鬆懈的事情因為這個涉及到我們養豬產業的一個非常大的一個產值那所以呢我們這個部分的包含這個您剛剛提到就是如果路徑旅客的這個部分在高風險地方的話"},{"start":8926.051,"end":8953.402,"text":"來自高風險地區從桃園機場進來的話不管是托運或手提都是百分之百的要經過X光檢查而且我們會有防疫犬來做一個加強的一個查緝希望就有關肉品因為您知道最難的就是什麼有的夾在那個月餅裡面啊那種那種東西所以這個部分是絕對不敢放鬆的所以我們不管是進口郵包還有進口的快遞或入境旅客所帶的都是用X光全部全面檢疫的"},{"start":8955.069,"end":8975.456,"text":"在這段期間又查緝到多少然後做了什麼樣的處分這個部分其實都是連帶都不能帶進來的那查貨的時候要怎麼處分呢除了沒收之外這些買購買的人或是如果比如說是跨境郵包購買的人還有那邊出的貨你要怎麼罰得到他"},{"start":8976.933,"end":8993.37,"text":"請署長回答一下報告委員這違反的部分是依照檢疫法的規定去處理的那帶進來的這些旅客他如果從疫區進來的第一次就要罰20萬那第二次就會罰100萬"},{"start":8994.451,"end":9017.261,"text":"那就是要了解說到這段期間罰了多少人罰了多少金額你有沒有統計過呃報告委員這個部分我們在跟那個防檢局檢疫署那邊要一下資料再提供給委員因為裁法是由他們裁法海關查獲是移送給呃房間署去裁法是啊那多少件查獲多少件你總有數字吧呃先不講罰的金額"},{"start":9020.463,"end":9040.436,"text":"入境旅客的部分我們現在已經總共查到了9000多件9000多件多久的時間9000多件是從107年到113年96年的時間9000多件那平均當然每一個時程不一樣如果用平均來講的話就一年就是1500件左右"},{"start":9041.136,"end":9066.354,"text":"大概是那一年一千五百件所以每一天都有好幾件喔是所以我是要提醒你我為什麼要跟你算到這麼細就是要提醒你這個工作不能鬆懈一鬆懈喔台灣這麼多的養豬產業跟他的上下游整個都會做到非常大的衝擊我知道有媒體在抱怨有遊客在抱怨說他們大排長龍啦很辛苦啦我還是在這邊要提醒你"},{"start":9067.421,"end":9085.059,"text":"因為對國家安全這個對疫區的這個防治的標準就是民怨要言也不能夠因為他的complain你去給他鬆懈去放鬆好不好是這個對我們把我們看好對我們國家非常重要要加油是那剛剛加熱菸那個問題"},{"start":9087.068,"end":9112.564,"text":"加熱菸從去年的3月通過那個法律然後現在就是說應該要健康風險評估了我起先了解是前面兩三個月都沒有人送可是去年6月開始就有送健康風險評估了到現在都沒有沒有一家評估的結果出來也不跟你講說評估有過或是評估不過這個不知道你是什麼看法"},{"start":9114.162,"end":9139.006,"text":"是包圍,因為健康風險別故是衛福這個部分是衛福部去要做我知道啊我知道這是衛福部的原因我是問說對於這樣子因為這會造成你原來要課的稅課不到嘛是我們也希望能夠盡快其實一直在流失台灣的稅金啊那照理來講正當正常的風險民工我有請教過衛福部他說6個月就應該會有結果現在9個月了都沒有結果"},{"start":9143.271,"end":9169.881,"text":"我的結果也不一定是要正面的或是反面的啊而是你有沒有依照你的標準去評估啊那你評估的時間是這樣現在9個月不出來一年不出來一年半不出來一直拖下去那你財政部的漏掉的這些稅要找誰補啊所以我的意思是說部長你作為同僚在行政院會的時候你應該要有主張啊不應該要有主張嗎在我來看這就是行政懈怠啊"},{"start":9172.13,"end":9194.489,"text":"那我還聽到更不好的傳言坊間有人在傳說那為什麼那麼久不過呢那評估為什麼這麼久都不出來他說因為有平常普通的止菸業者從中作梗希望越慢越好因為加熱菸的評估如果出來一部分合格一部分不合格合格的部分他就可以開始正式的進入市場那他們認為這個評估起來對止菸業者會有影響你有沒有聽過這樣的傳聞"},{"start":9201.846,"end":9215.113,"text":"當然沒有欸好那我現在是要告訴你有這樣的傳聞的原因是因為你事實上該做的事情沒有好好做嘛如果你現在6個月評估出來該過的給過不該過的不過就不會有這樣的傳言了是的那你到現在選舉完了已經3個月了"},{"start":9224.383,"end":9249.456,"text":"那你也不給一個答案在我來看這就是行政懈怠我希望你在行政院會也好或是在同僚之間也好應該要跟他表達意見因為這事關到我們國家的稅收一直不停在流失這不知道我這樣的看法你同不同意我認同因為要趕快有一個結果不管是通過或是不通過那在我們海關這邊處理也可以有一個準據來做"},{"start":9250.256,"end":9263.831,"text":"而且那個準據不是只有煙的本身還有那些加熱煙的工具等等這些東西都一直在那邊演到事實上我從以前一直跟你們講你去給人家扣那個加熱器沒有法理依據的但是現在就是還是這樣在幹"},{"start":9266.688,"end":9292.961,"text":"這事情拖下去對財政部來講是非常不利的我希望你還是能夠本於你的職責該講的時候還是要講再來就是要跟你請教這個新辦社會住宅現在在全國的境內跟我們國產署相關的業務方面進度如何呢在社會住宅的部分其實幹社會住宅最主要的就是要土地"},{"start":9294.332,"end":9321.443,"text":"國有土地已經提供了有81公頃的土地以各種方式不管是撥用出租或捐贈等等那還有另外也保留的114公頃提供他們去做規劃台中市政府因為前一陣子要去標售他的那個底廢地他的區段證書或是都市那個那個市地重劃的底廢地然後他一口氣要標那麼多然後底價又很高引起很多的爭議"},{"start":9322.583,"end":9344.329,"text":"那其中內政部曾經表達說希望可以用開發的價格賣給內政部讓他來蓋國宅關於這樣的主張部長你贊成嗎我想這個部分因為底廢地他不管是試地重劃或是區段徵收他有一些必須成本的回收那至於除此之外可以保留更多的土地來做社會主宅我想這是一個很好的方向"},{"start":9345.029,"end":9345.049,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":9362.896,"end":9382.597,"text":"其實社會住宅蓋在地方就是地方的人在用那真的不需要去賺那個差價但是問題是我覺得要問你的是說這樣子的話中央要增加蠻多的支出喔所以如果中央增加這一筆支出你剛剛講的說要多還債這個就變成稍微會有困難會有影響這一點你的看法如何呢"},{"start":9382.817,"end":9411.363,"text":"我想這個部分也許可以透過世紀重劃的條例或區段徵收有關那個區段徵收法土地徵收法裡面看有沒有相關的規範把它放進去就是說在區段徵收的法律或是在世紀重劃的法律裡面規定你的底廢地要有一定的比例要來做這個社會住宅的興建對對對所以福利當作公共設施的一個內政部已經在研議了那我現在要請教我剛剛講的是台中那我們新北市呢"},{"start":9412.732,"end":9413.532,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":9428.233,"end":9441.567,"text":"跟委員報告新北市的部分其實中央在做設載不管已經完成或規劃中的或興建中的部分一共大概是有41處左右那未來將會有所謂16437戶"},{"start":9449.54,"end":9474.166,"text":"那市政府的部分多少戶市政府的部分我如果我沒有記錯好像也不到1萬戶了那個不到1萬戶還是當初世大運林口選手村宜波的部分就佔了3000多戶了所以有沒有辦法做內部的溝通請新北市政府既然這是國家大家共同的方向講居住正義嘛居住正義如果你社會住宅提供的有夠多"},{"start":9475.202,"end":9495.758,"text":"那當然可以縮減一部分的壓力那這一部分是不是內部溝通請市政府要加強努力報告委員這個部分事實上住都中心一直有跟市政府在做一個整體性的協調因為最後有很多的建造的申請還是要地方政府配合我想中央跟地方共同來做涉宰這是責務旁貸的"},{"start":9497.119,"end":9498.361,"text":"謝謝吳秉偉委員的質詢接著我們休息10分鐘"},{"start":10130.714,"end":10151.041,"text":"我們繼續開會接著我們請陳玉珍委員質詢請大家就定位主席好我們請部長有請莊部長"},{"start":10157.659,"end":10178.296,"text":"委員好 部長早齁 這個你們今天提出來這個解凍案的書面報告第一頁裡頭齁 有關這個我們委員會凍結貴部的這個促參業務下面的促進民間參與公共建設業務的這個十分之一齁 要提出報告我們才會動之嘛齁 才會讓你們動之 那我們看到民間的相關的這個報導有說"},{"start":10180.27,"end":10206.984,"text":"民間投資公建財政部看好連四年破1800億這個台灣儲蓄超多的那再看你們提供的相關的資料各個縣市的各個地方政府辦理民間參與公共建設的案件裡頭我們看到這些案子裡頭因為我們是來自金門離島所以我們就比較離島發現澎湖縣也有一個案子"},{"start":10208.605,"end":10236.847,"text":"但是金門沒有金門最近的一次是在102年已經十幾年前了10幾年前102年11年前你看我們金門之前曾經提過一些案子裡頭198年100年100年102年這三年都也有相關的單位提出相關的促參案但是都沒有辦法通過有提出什麼"},{"start":10237.901,"end":10261.813,"text":"民間自體BOT啊、金沙西苑啊、金沙西苑當地的這要活化當地那個土地啊、什麼天然廠區的這些都沒有辦法通過。110年跟111年都有提出來。那這些113年3月公告截止的這些,這個您有瞭解為什麼沒有辦法呢?沒有原因是什麼?"},{"start":10264.145,"end":10284.965,"text":"這個個案的部分我大概不太知道就是說金門縣這個BOT案為什麼沒有能夠順利的簽約嘛那我想這個部分可能要再了解一下原因這是民間自提的就是說像這個金門縣這個下面這個金沙鎮的應該是我們政府希望大家來做促成但是"},{"start":10285.726,"end":10295.945,"text":"但是是不是整體的政策沒有對我們金門比較有利?雖然我們金門是比較偏遠但是連澎湖都有嘛那是不是在政策方面啊或者是你們幫我研究一下這個原因好嗎?"},{"start":10297.814,"end":10306.336,"text":"跟委員報告我們不會因為金門而有不同的待遇其實我們更鼓勵這個我們金門來辦理促參那比如說在113年的時候我們已經合併補助金門縣金湖鎮的廣間庭民間自體BOT案的前置作業168萬那個是原來前置作業"},{"start":10320.28,"end":10348.332,"text":"原來我們縣政府本來我們這個前瞻計畫是有申請到大概十幾億的這個停車場那因為地方現在認為我們的金門縣政府認為現在我們金門財政比較困難那地方還有一些自籌款覺得這個自籌款好幾億對金門縣政府的財政可能會有影響所以說把原來前瞻計畫的那些錢就退回去就是說不要用前瞻計畫來做這件事情那希望朝著民間參與投資來這個部分那這個部分是不是到時候也可以來協助我們金門縣政府"},{"start":10348.772,"end":10354.096,"text":"各位報告確實是金門縣政府他覺得應該減輕地方政府財務負擔所以他走促餐的模式走BOT案那所以在財政部的部分能夠協助第一個就是對於前置規劃前置作業的經費我們給予補助讓地方政府可以有經費去做前面的政策公告出省還有徵求相關的民間申請人等等去做前置作業的地方我們給他補助"},{"start":10373.45,"end":10398.459,"text":"第2個就是說前置作業做得完備的話你招到好的廠商來做的話那你這個出差案才能夠成功能夠成功的簽約然後順利的推動所以在這個前面的前置作業這個部分財政部會去協助協助相關文件的一些看看有沒有可以提供意見讓我們的文件跟招商的可能性更高那這個部分財政部可以主動來做協助來協助我們金門縣政府那另外對於招商成功這個部分財政部有一個"},{"start":10403.482,"end":10414.854,"text":"資訊系統IMAC這個部分那我們也是透過這個部分讓大家知道商機在哪裡讓廠商知道他的投資的案源可以在哪裡就讓我們將來金門縣政府家未來可以的話我們也會讓他進入招商大會裡面來"},{"start":10418.874,"end":10429.045,"text":"做說明然後能夠讓廠商可以知道這個案源我想這個部分財政部都可以協助從前置作業的規劃一些的文件的一些提供意見還有經費的補助以及到後續我們納入招商大會來希望能夠有更多的廠商知道有這麼好的一個案子來投資"},{"start":10437.053,"end":10450.698,"text":"讓金門在公共建設方面可以更完整那民眾可以得到更好的公共服務我想這個部分是我們會努力跟金門縣政府一起努力做的謝部長像比如說最近這個我們金門縣金門的大學實際上是國立的國立金門大學他事實上也要蓋校舍"},{"start":10454.739,"end":10454.759,"text":"閱讀者們﹚"},{"start":10474.693,"end":10501.146,"text":"也是有這個案例成功案例有這樣的案子可能這一方面也麻煩你們跟教育部就針對金門大學要蓋這個學生書的這個部分也去做一點研究看是不是這樣讓我們金門大學的來我們這邊讀書來到金門讀書的學子可以比較很快的有這個數字還不會很多事情都要拖很久政府如果預算各方面地方財政各方面比較沒那麼以前那麼充裕的時候這個有關教育部金門大學對對對如果金門大學我們可以鼓勵金門大學去走"},{"start":10504.928,"end":10531.971,"text":"續餐模式相關的方法我們也可以去跟他做指導請你們多多協助離島招商引資就比較不易而且另一方面離島的商家在融資方面事實上也特別的辛苦我們金門地區本國銀行有7家臺銀、土銀、兆豐、中小企銀、元大、永豐有兩家民營的合作社跟郵局十幾家分支機構"},{"start":10533.133,"end":10536.145,"text":"本國銀行大概就這7家那這7家裡頭"},{"start":10538.326,"end":10564.06,"text":"最近我們地方的這個很多的商家和業者都反映就是說金融的民間企業要做金融的貸款很多銀行都不願意放貸就是幾乎很多行業都反映長久以來都一直是這樣子所以很多這個包括比如說拿到政府工程的或者是做一些新建投資建設的大概很多人就變成金門的地下金融就有點長盛"},{"start":10564.98,"end":10583.836,"text":"第二個就是去找這種叫做租賃公司嘛他這個利率比較高啊可能一些條件可能比較放寬或者是他的時間比較快啦可能是這樣子那你覺得是因為什麼因爲是銀行加速或什麼什麼這個因爲是不是我自己在想說是不是"},{"start":10585.189,"end":10614.128,"text":"這些公股銀行就是民營的我們就先不管台灣銀行、土地銀行、兆豐銀行、台灣中小企這些泛公股銀行他們是不是就沒有什麼業績的壓力我看台灣的銀行一般來講都比較在台灣本島的銀行感覺上都對這個做業務比較積極那會不會是因為這些公股是公股銀行那也許是公務員這種就比較趨向保守所以讓整個金門地區的這個金融活水非常的不昌盛"},{"start":10614.989,"end":10623.52,"text":"所以這個您有瞭解嗎是跟委員說明我們供股行庫在那裡有五間的分行其實就是要本著這個有關這個公平代課還有金融友善服務我們金門當地的一個鄉親本來就應該要這樣做那在貸放裡面當然它要符合有關"},{"start":10634.033,"end":10641.279,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":10664.436,"end":10691.334,"text":"那是不是存款很多那如果存款很多放款少照說銀行不容易獲利那銀行的這個積極度是不是不夠因為各行各業都有在反映所以請你會後跟我們提供這些相關的資料好我們來跟我們了解它的獲利表現經營績效各種這個存放款這種大概這種比例是多少這些相關的資料讓我們來知道說怎麼樣協助我們地區不管是政府政府在促餐方面要協助"},{"start":10691.834,"end":10708.183,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":10708.283,"end":10708.703,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":10738.628,"end":10739.108,"text":"有請莊部長有請莊部長"},{"start":10763.649,"end":10763.829,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10770.407,"end":10798.742,"text":"整個薪資的問題跟部長做一下討論今年我們公教人員會對於薪資調整4%這整件事情其實我在總諮詢的時候我也對於整體我們行政院來說我是肯定的針對物價通膨還有當時我們在做年金討論退休公務軍公教年金的討論的時候其實我們有一個計算的機制也就是物價通膨在5%或者每隔4年"},{"start":10799.322,"end":10815.586,"text":"我們都勢必要調整一次所以當時我們加了這個附帶的意見在裡頭或但書在裡頭我覺得方向是對的因為接著我們除了討論退休軍公教我們現在的公教人員也會持續的去做一些討論"},{"start":10818.887,"end":10843.596,"text":"這個部分我就要必須要問到部長對於公股銀行如果要留住人才調高待遇他也當然是勢必的公教人員公股銀行他同樣也都是我們的同仁所以在這個部分我們也會做配合但是我們都知道公教人員跟國營事業的薪資結構事實上跟民間是完全不一樣的"},{"start":10844.836,"end":10852.979,"text":"我過去曾經聽說過我們八大公股銀行其實每一次有時候在調的時候有些銀行非常好他就調本縫有些調他可能不是調本縫他用另外獎金加給的方式來去做處理部長你知道有這個狀況嗎"},{"start":10865.82,"end":10880.166,"text":"你覺得行政院本來我們希望調的方向包括我們希望鼓勵民間調的方向是用獎金來調好我們先講原意啦政府的原意你覺得政府的原意是什麼"},{"start":10881.841,"end":10894.344,"text":"政府的原意是希望能夠讓我們的不管是軍公教或是我們的國土航空或民間那希望都能夠調心嘛讓我們的公共獎金可以分享那個企業的獲利成果可以讓民間分享然後讓他們調心那至於就是說調本縫或是調獎金我想本縫的話因為它是一個基礎未來調的話是以這個做基礎往上調"},{"start":10908.208,"end":10912.931,"text":"會是一個比較正規的那是以獎金﹖對嘛,現在你就回答對了嘛這是一個正規的方式嘛通常獎金的意思說你在業績有競爭力有達標之後我給你獎金嘛對一次性的嘛這個可能會跟著環境的影響整個國際的局勢比如一個民間公司他可能是今年整體環境又不一樣了嘛你沒有達標可能沒有嘛所以我們政府的原意是希望從本縫開始來調整我這樣講對不對"},{"start":10937.948,"end":10951.707,"text":"您也同意嗎?是委員說得很是是那公營機構你知道我們八大行庫裡面其實到目前為止確定調薪的方向有幾家那確定調的到底是蔣經還是本鳳?"},{"start":10955.856,"end":10977.623,"text":"謝謝委員對我們公股行庫的員工的一個關心那其實6家的公股民營銀行裡面有4家會從今年1月1號開始全面調行其餘的2家就是華南跟張盈會在4月1號開始實施所以都有調行那調的是什麼我的重點是調本鳳還是調用獎金加起來的方法調的到底是什麼"},{"start":10978.083,"end":11003.293,"text":"都有欸都涵蓋裡面欸其實他的趴數都其實都不算低欸部長我的問題你還是沒有具體回答我們都同意政府的原意希望是用本鳳來去做調整對你也支持這樣子的方向所以你剛才很具體的回答我我們八大行庫裡面只有兩家只有六家要用本鳳來去做處理這個跟政府的原意是一樣我們都不希望"},{"start":11006.255,"end":11021.511,"text":"讓勞工去做功德該怎麼樣政府的方向其實我們都應該去做朝政府的方向來支持鼓勵所以這一點華南跟張盈他目前如果不是用本鳳方式是有可能用蔣經方式的話我覺得部長"},{"start":11022.552,"end":11037.626,"text":"在照顧我們巴拉航空員工的立場上我覺得你就有必要進一步去做溝通跟委員說明這邊我們已經有調查過了這6家都是有條本心另外兩家呢也是華南跟張營呢他是條本心嗎也是條本心你確定嗎是的"},{"start":11041.369,"end":11066.137,"text":"好,那另外一個,如果巴拉航空每一個都調本性那是最好那就很明確那另外一個就是說我們現在因為當時的公股銀行是比照公務人員所以他們跟民間的計算方式不太一樣所以有一些人他的年縫以部長來說你可能已經到一個頂點了就是所謂俗稱的打頂人員他們調性的方式會不會不一樣他們的本縫已經打頂了"},{"start":11069.261,"end":11074.685,"text":"部長你了解我意思嗎?那怎麼辦?對他已經到司令了那怎麼辦?有沒有機會調?"},{"start":11077.855,"end":11101.709,"text":"這個其實當時公股銀行人員比照我們的公務人員其實我都覺得包括我們公務人員這個也應該調但這個不是你部長的事情但是公股銀行他是不是非得比照公務人員那他已經打頂的部分那你就說沒有辦法因為這個是比照但已經打頂我們沒有辦法我們只好用別的形式"},{"start":11102.679,"end":11128.795,"text":"這一點怎麼去做處理這個頂的部分也是可以調整的啊這個頂並不是這麼這麼這麼少那邊所以部長你願意去溝通像張盈盈的話她在3月27號她也討論過她會把薪資上限做一個調整讓打頂的人員能夠獲得調整所以你現在回應我的就是八大行庫不管是不是打頂人員有沒有打頂我們都會朝本縫都一定要調到4%"},{"start":11130.296,"end":11154.392,"text":"我這樣的結論對嗎?不是您是講第一個打頂的部分那如果這個公司你會朝本鳳去調他頂可以去做調整嘛頂那個部分可以往上拉嘛這是可以去做那張瑩也已經通過了那至於其他銀行的部分他那個頂是不是會去做調整我們再來做進一步的了解好部長那這個就是我兩個重點第一個本鳳巴大航庫所有的員工應該都朝4%本鳳去調"},{"start":11156.994,"end":11174.766,"text":"第二打頂的我們也希望八百行庫即便是打頂我們都應該要朝本可以考慮去調整那個頂把他拿開來都要讓他們去調是是我知道委員的意思這個是目標可以嗎這是目標是一定要做到可以我們朝這個方向對對對好部長謝謝你的回應"},{"start":11174.966,"end":11175.606,"text":"我們現在小規模的營業場所、營業人每個月的營業額在20萬底下 這個是什麼時候訂的啊?"},{"start":11175.606,"end":11176.447,"text":"就是免用或免開統一發票"},{"start":11191.115,"end":11212.032,"text":"在民國75年的時候...好部長因為我今天時間不多你覺得75年現在用免稅額20萬以現在什麼都在漲然後人工也在一利一休什麼都在漲成本也在漲包括我們稅務人員如果針對20萬以下的有這麼多欸你要去查你的成本也很多"},{"start":11212.873,"end":11224.33,"text":"那20萬是不是合理這就我現在這一題因為就有兩個問題75年定的免稅開同一發票20萬是不是合理那如果我們稅務人員要去查這麼多"},{"start":11226.966,"end":11250.66,"text":"是不是一個我們在人力上各方面所以第一個是我們是不是應該調整第二個我們應該去朝向橫平的方式去處理就是說我們用這麼多人力去查那我們怎麼去達到一個考量經濟原則稅基損失當中我們如何去取得平衡這個有沒有調整的可能性委員報告分兩個層面第一個就是說營業稅的起徵點也就是您剛剛講的就是說"},{"start":11254.442,"end":11254.582,"text":"閱讀委員報告．"},{"start":11279.316,"end":11296.066,"text":"以加值型營業稅加上使用統一發票這樣的一個制度來推動可是我們要考慮到小規模營業人跟特殊營業性質的人他開發票在當時民國75年是有點困難的因為以前營造的發票還要寫還要花一個人力在那邊所以我們訂一個額度讓他可以免"},{"start":11296.406,"end":11314.165,"text":"那這個額度到今年到現在為止整個時空環境整個物價通膨人力什麼都已經都已經做很大的變動原則上應該是要都開統一發票只是為了考量他們當時開立有困難所以定個額度其實開統一發票其實對我們來說是非常重要第一個"},{"start":11314.605,"end":11335.573,"text":"所以我也同意但是當時的原因現在就是說當時的原因現在現在其實時空環境演變為什麼因為開發票現在越來越方便我們有電子發票甚至雲端這個發票然後其實這個部分呢我們如果不開發票我們的稅務人員是用查定的稅額的方式去做我要花更多的人力第三個就消費者來說他已經養成了"},{"start":11336.894,"end":11337.134,"text":"我希望要擴大使用"},{"start":11362.073,"end":11364.994,"text":"我希望你再去思考當時的原因你剛才講當然是部分因素但是時空環境也不一樣了很多成本也改變了所以20萬它是不是一個"},{"start":11392.12,"end":11397.686,"text":"免開討論是不是一個合理的金額我希望部長去做思考好謝謝委員謝謝委員的建議謝謝李業界委員質詢接著我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢"},{"start":11413.587,"end":11426.213,"text":"主席、在場委員憲進、列席的政治機關主管、官員、會長、郭總裁、記者、媒體、經理先生有請我們莊部長還有負稅署的宋署長和高雄國稅局的翁局長好 有點名到請上來委員好"},{"start":11429.993,"end":11446.498,"text":"議長 署長好久不見了那麼剛剛的很開心聽到李燕秀委員關心小規模營業人但是我接下來我怕有所誤會先聲明李委員關心的是包括起徵點跟開立統一發票的門檻那我待會不提開立統一發票門檻我只談起徵點可以嗎"},{"start":11447.498,"end":11462.633,"text":"好 那我們來看一下齁 先問一下考你一題齁為什麼40年前江青生以前訂的小店的優惠稅率為什麼要優惠根據當年的價值型及非價值型營業稅法第3條小規模營業人稅率訂為1%為什麼是1%要低啊 總是有個依據吧 營業稅是5%為什麼要訂1%"},{"start":11472.774,"end":11492.669,"text":"因為呢,他在不按競銷項差額計稅為什麼?因為他是小規模他可能拿不到競銷發票那你用他的出項來計他會有困難所以呢他改按銷售總額在1985年之前銷售總額的稅率是0.6現在調了1%我這樣說對不對"},{"start":11497.039,"end":11524.684,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":11524.804,"end":11548.579,"text":"他就算做得蠻成功的他的鏡像沒有發票所以我們要用一趴這樣就得2000塊是不是這個意思小店家的部分也有可以扣的我知道但是他有成本嘛所以我是假設比較簡化來講因為他拿不到鏡像發票嘛所以就把它裝一趴是不是這樣小店家的部分他如果拿到發票鏡像學的10%可以扣嗎如果他都拿不到的話啦"},{"start":11549.019,"end":11567.21,"text":"゚∀゚。"},{"start":11567.642,"end":11588.667,"text":"好來我們一下看過去呢我在院會的時候提出來希望小店降稅減負擔那時候我希望小規模營業人的標準從20萬提高到50萬那起徵點從8萬提高到20萬起徵點的原因剛剛講的他有店租他有員工薪水他有店主的成本那請問一下為什麼後來調整當時的起徵點為什麼是8萬為什麼是8萬起徵點為什麼8萬8萬怎麼來的你說怎樣"},{"start":11596.871,"end":11625.55,"text":"當時我們也是考量到有一定的物價的調整是的很好我問過你們你們有回函來你看我今年你們年初回函給我了財政部一指出成本已有上漲剛講到的我們的計算的方式電租員工薪水電阻成本都有成長按照你們提供給我的數字我大概推估貨物類的可能8萬會調到14萬勞務類的可能從4萬調到7萬有沒有這個可能成本提高起徵也應該提高免稅的起徵也應該提高是不是這樣"},{"start":11626.218,"end":11641.747,"text":"是,我們已經正在估算當中好,那我還是希望調到20萬那你們去估算我的目標是20萬往下看但是但是來啦以前一家西餐廳我小時候10歲的時候我們那時候他的月營業額是30萬他可以請10個員工"},{"start":11644.528,"end":11671.366,"text":"他的交易對象那時候可以拿到發票現在他的營業額隨著物價波動他現在營業額可能說80萬因為牛排漲價了他的員工人數因為勞工薪水高了他現在只請7個人交易對象還是有發票所以他沒有問題但是以前的小麵攤自助餐他可能當年的營業額是15萬他的員工只請了起3個人他的交易對象是菜市場的攤販他沒有辦法拿到競相發票他沒有"},{"start":11672.226,"end":11690.528,"text":"現在呢他的營業提高了因為資助商也漲價了嘛員工還是三人交易對象有因此而變得有發票嗎你要去行業別吧小店他雖然規模成長但是交易對象還是那些落在你們認為免該統一發票的對象同不同意會不會有這個情況"},{"start":11694.319,"end":11708.615,"text":"所以小規模的營業人如果要承擔5%的營業稅率我們看一下他的小店的本質不變他的交易對象仍然是免開發票的小店他的人手還是有限請問小店的優惠門檻1%的門檻要不要放寬"},{"start":11711.633,"end":11731.846,"text":"我直接告訴你我的主張要放寬啦為什麼因為隨著時間的成長西餐廳還是西餐廳他的交易對象有發票他還是有發票他過去開發票現在是開發票現在呢小規模營業人自助餐麵攤他可能做大一點啊他的營業額可能超過20萬了他要開發票了"},{"start":11734.187,"end":11747.892,"text":"但是呢他的交易對象還是那些沒有開發票的菜市場的攤販那你現在要他用5%來瞌睡他拿不到競向發票是不是可以考慮一下讓這些50萬以下30萬20萬以上性質還是屬於小規模營業人的對象"},{"start":11754.895,"end":11766.878,"text":"起徵點免稅起徵點20萬這個不用稅為什麼這個不用稅因為現在未達20萬的微型企業按照你們2022年的估算你們的營業稅總額5444億小規模營業人只貢獻了34.7億只佔了0.64%稅損有限所以呢20萬以下的免課起徵點免課營業稅20萬到50萬的他的本質規模還是小店家"},{"start":11782.315,"end":11797.991,"text":"那開不開發票你們決定吧我沒有跟你爭一發票縱船他開發票開肖像發票他不見得拿得到金像發票所以根據剛剛我第一題的原理你還是用一趴的有違稅率有條件的一趴的稅率可以考慮嗎"},{"start":11800.902,"end":11821.512,"text":"可以嗎?部長,我這樣講有沒有道理?委員整理得很詳細,但也講得很快。我想我們回去對於委員整理...我講得太快了。我至少不像一開始開場牌吧。我講得很清楚。是,很清楚。我們回去再來演繹一下。什麼時候可以給我一個答案?我昨天也在院會的時候問過院長了。有有有。那你可以考慮多久?一個月?"},{"start":11822.552,"end":11825.935,"text":"一個月好嗎好謝謝一個月好謝謝鄭家斌委員質詢接著我們請黃國昌委員質詢我這樣講有沒有快"},{"start":11852.847,"end":11852.867,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":11873.284,"end":11900.009,"text":"三位好,時間的關係不一一問候第一個問題請教我納稅醫護人依法需要在每年的什麼時候把上一年度的扣繳平單跟扣繳稅額匯報給急診機關每年的一月底前每年的一月底前嗎那所以如果是2022年12月有3萬元的收入的話扣繳醫護人什麼時候要開具扣繳平單"},{"start":11905.365,"end":11929.679,"text":"是不是就是2023年的1月嗎?對啊對啊剛剛你已經知道答案了嘛套用到實際的例子稍微動一下就腦筋稍微動一下就知道答案了啦所以說的稅法92條有這樣很明確的規定嘛但我現在在做一個弊案我覺得非常的狐疑我為什麼說非常的狐疑啊我怎麼想都想不通啊所以我今天想利用機會請教一下部長"},{"start":11931.755,"end":11959.047,"text":"我們的足球國腳明明沒有拿到錢但是卻收到了扣腳平單然後這個扣腳平單是中華足協給的部長你覺得到底發生什麼狀況是中華足協明明沒有給人家錢還幫人家扣腳部長你可不可以跟大家說明一下這到底是依照你的了解對於法規的認識是不是代表"},{"start":11960.287,"end":11982.134,"text":"中華足協真的有發扣繳平單才會出現這個數字我想委員這樣子剛剛的引敘進來就知道你有給他扣繳平單因為次年的1月要給要提出來嗎對不對但是沒有給人家錢為什麼會有扣繳平單的問題是這個就是我的問題啊所以我今天因為我老實說啦"},{"start":11983.905,"end":12012.917,"text":"我上次在教委委員會執行的時候啊體育署的署長啊在教育部部長旁邊跟我講說他要徹查但我為什麼沒有辦法相信他的徹查因為當初他正是竹協的秘書長現在已經高升體育署署長了他去查就是什麼體育署的署長去查竹協的前秘書長自己查自己啊所以我今天利用財政委員會公開執行啊"},{"start":12014.714,"end":12023.201,"text":"財政部可不可以去查清楚可以這樣幹嗎?到底發生了什麼事情有不法是不是應該移送減掉?可以這樣幹嗎?沒有給錢還可以出扣繳平單啊錢到哪裡去了這是大事欸部長可不可以承諾跟委員報告齁這個案子我們北區國稅局也在查那我們局長現在也在是不是可以跟您做一個說明好請北區國稅局"},{"start":12045.213,"end":12069.78,"text":"報告委員有關這個委員講的中華足球的這件協會的事情我們新莊基金所已經發函請他要來確認他自己的扣繳稅款是不是有錯誤那我們昨天已經發函給他了昨天發函給他了嗎什麼時候會有調查結果我們希望他在4月2號以前回答我們給我們這個答案有需要給這麼長的時間嗎"},{"start":12072.861,"end":12097.418,"text":"我們法律上正常會給一定的時間沒關係啦我希望齁我們財政部的同仁勿妄勿重依法徹查這個是太離譜了人家沒拿到錢發扣繳平章給他這不是欠錢不還的問題喔這裡面會牽涉到刑事犯罪行為財政部如果查有不法可不可以承諾一定依法送檢調絕不包庇"},{"start":12098.665,"end":12100.774,"text":"財政部不會包庇,我們一定也依法去查"},{"start":12103.891,"end":12130.156,"text":"第二個部分就是公股的管理事實上是財政部國庫署的權責從2016年這份案我們財政部就定定的要強化公股的管理因為臉丟大了接下來陸續幾年公股如果有禮專爆發弊案的時候前任的部長他的態度也表現得很清楚"},{"start":12131.937,"end":12154.376,"text":"絕對不會寬斷絕對不會寬斷那但問題是什麼但問題是我們的供股航庫在發生類似的事情的時候我期待他們處理的態度就是依法嚴辦絕不迴避也絕不遮掩好但事實上2019年張盈的禮專挪用客戶6300萬"},{"start":12157.096,"end":12181.449,"text":"他挪用客戶6300萬到搜索的時候到搜索的時候搜索是檢察官已經搜索完了嘛結果他也沒有讓社會大眾知道他也沒有依規定發重訊那我知道有關於張雲的部分是由我們的國庫署副署長自己去當法人董事嘛我理解應該沒錯吧"},{"start":12183.07,"end":12208.428,"text":"是國會署的副組長自己去當法人董事喔代表喔我們政府去當法人董事喔那我就覺得很奇怪啊出現這麼嚴重的事情繼續遮掩等到媒體報出來了以後才慢吞吞的發重訊大家才知道喔原來去年啊就有出這樣子的事情了部長是不是可以抱負我們的"},{"start":12209.591,"end":12233.757,"text":"公股行庫的法人董事啊你既然代表國家去啊做事就認真一點啊監督就認真一點嘛可以這樣子嗎是的我們是應該要要求法人董事因為是我們是公股管理機關那既然代表公股去當然就要盡責當然嘛你代表公股去你絕對不是去那邊坐在那邊開董事會喝喝咖啡吃吃蛋糕就下班嘛"},{"start":12235.001,"end":12248.276,"text":"這種事情要監督嘛可不可以拜託國庫署的副署長作為張雲的董事要求張雲說明為什麼當初遮掩這件事情沒有依法發重訊可以嗎"},{"start":12249.896,"end":12275.757,"text":"我們來做進一步瞭解跟委員報告為什麼會這樣你其實不用跟我個人報告跟台灣社會報告張穎要發新聞稿也可以國庫署要發新聞稿也可以我就看你們公開跟社會報告的內容我們下一次質詢再見時間的關係主席站起來齁我第二個檢舉一件事情也一併交由張穎的董事啊我們財政部派去的董事啊處理"},{"start":12276.704,"end":12302.324,"text":"明明就已經又發現了行員挪用客戶的款項利用他人的資金去從事不當的投資這個在銀行的管理很嚴重嘛那張雲到現在為止有沒有跟財政部通報有沒有跟金管會通報有沒有移眾檢調我現在齁在螢幕上面秀的這一張是給部長看的"},{"start":12303.615,"end":12327.249,"text":"那是章雲內部的人跟我投訴啊說章雲還在遮掩啊這件事情沒有告訴金管會也沒有送點票那我就要拜託財政部你們的公股的董事下去查查看啊這件事情可以一併承諾嗎可以啊我們一定要去瞭解可以嘛好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員接著我們請王洪維委員質詢"},{"start":12340.796,"end":12345.82,"text":"好謝謝主席我請我們財政部部長有請莊部長委員好部長好我之前就說過我進入財委會其中有一個很重要的就是在我們的公股銀行的一些的改革的部分那今天我想請教一下部長公股銀行主要業務是在做長照嗎"},{"start":12372.407,"end":12373.808,"text":"我給部長看一下我們幾個工股行庫的董作的年齡"},{"start":12401.942,"end":12427.838,"text":"臺灣銀行、土地銀行、合作金庫、兆豐銀行、滴銀行、華南銀行、彰化銀行、臺灣企銀當然有些是金控這些董事長8個董事長裡面有5個都已經超齡了我們過去有這個出任不要超過65歲董事長也是不要超過68歲"},{"start":12429.719,"end":12454.896,"text":"可是後來這些的規定你們也取消了嘛可是問題是我們如果今天我們的這些公股的金控公股的銀行他們的業績非常好表現非常好然後在公司次裡的表現上也是可圈可點的話那我們可以說這些呢將是老的辣可是事實如此嗎"},{"start":12459.199,"end":12482.837,"text":"過去有多少我們這些公股金控公股銀行下面有一些公司治理亂七八糟人模不章用人也是完全是用親信我最近可能還會再提出因為陸陸續續都一直有跟我爆料都很離譜就是人事的升遷完全沒有按照常理"},{"start":12483.988,"end":12505.184,"text":"道津市涉案的還可以讓他升官只是因為朝中有人啊所以今天我們看到這麼多的這些公股銀行監控這些董事長甚至已經高達70歲了仍然讓他去高升所以部長我想請問一下這個部分難道不需要去改革嗎"},{"start":12511.912,"end":12534.759,"text":"委員報告董事長總經理的一個任用當然我們要考慮他的專業經驗還有歷練那一定要有一定的高度以及他身後的一些經驗的豐富以及學養我想這個部分年齡不是主要的一個考慮因素我想這個部分委員我知道您一直很關心這個部分我們也會督促供股行庫不管是在人員禁用還跟升遷上"},{"start":12535.579,"end":12556.725,"text":"也要符合它的一個制度跟規定那有關如果有不合的部分我們一定會不會包庇我肯定在上次我提出來就是在我們公股監控除了銀行在公開招考之外其他的子公司也應該採取用公開招考的方式這個部分我會繼續的追蹤"},{"start":12560.067,"end":12580.026,"text":"我們也同意這樣的方式但是我們在這些高層人士的部分如果我們長期的其實沒有做新陳代謝說實在我這邊雖然在質詢你財政部長我非常清楚知道很多銀行的董作甚至總經理你可能都沒有辦法決定"},{"start":12581.187,"end":12607.721,"text":"甚至我有時候質疑說為什麼這個人可以他出他的下面出這麼多事情他仍然可以繼續的繼續的升官繼續的當董事長啊就有人說沒有辦法他是誰誰誰的人啊都是民進黨這些執政黨高層的人那可是問題是這些就是我們公股金控公股銀行這些我們公股金融機構"},{"start":12609.164,"end":12626.602,"text":"如果他們的任命某一個程度就已經有政治性的任命的時候那當然他的下面的一些他的中階主管的任命也充滿了很可能會被人家左右好我們看下一頁"},{"start":12627.903,"end":12645.503,"text":"這個部分我知道我們的財委會的委員也有人質詢過就是為什麼我們公股監控的表現都打不過這些民營的監控公司加起來整個的營收稅後金利全部加起來也打不過人家一家的這個民營監控所以為什麼我們的績效這麼差"},{"start":12649.527,"end":12675.605,"text":"當然我們有委員提出來比如說要不要實施像過去的二次經改一樣要不要公共合併公共就是公共公共今後合併但我也知道這個引起一些公會的反彈因為他們非常擔心那我認為我認為我們現在很多的問題並不是其實我個人並不是很支持現在來做什麼公共併因為"},{"start":12678.071,"end":12702.687,"text":"宮古金控下面有很多的弊端你不去解決然後你說你們表現很差呀那麼都打不過什麼富邦啊國泰啊什麼這些金控公司那麼如果我們現在整個在人事的制度上能夠像以前一樣好的制度建立起來過去就是願有一些人一個兩個"},{"start":12705.299,"end":12722.654,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":12722.774,"end":12727.438,"text":"財政部有一個這個相關的規定在那裡但是沒有一家在遵守那最後呢就乾脆把這個規定取消然後說哇這些啊都是他們資歷非常的深厚"},{"start":12744.111,"end":12765.248,"text":"可是其他人沒有那個我真的覺得這麼多功苦驚恐他沒人了嗎說難聽一點我過去是媒體出身我就是跑金融的財政金融財政部我很熟悉我以前就跑財政部很久嘛有些這個你們現在都已經升官了以前都那個什麼我們都常在跑"},{"start":12766.263,"end":12792.182,"text":"老師說你們現在有一些金控的人我在跑新聞的時候就是他們到現在還是他們我就覺得很奇怪我們難道這個公股行庫裡面沒有人了嗎沒有人才了嗎所以最後一點時間給你看後面所以我們現在一些公股金控不管是銀行也好這個是以合股銀行來舉例"},{"start":12794.261,"end":12814.906,"text":"很多已經留不住年輕人了如果這些高層的人士被這些人長期的霸佔反正永遠也不會退啦永遠都是他啦有的你們知道一些中層主管出事了還是他啊我最近就看到一個案例我覺得太離譜了都已經被起訴了然後還可以繼續升官"},{"start":12822.071,"end":12849.542,"text":"是這個在民間機構大家都會覺得你可能是家族公司吧所以你現在年輕人如果優秀的年輕人沒有辦法在我們的公股的金控公司也好公股的銀行也好能夠讓他們長期的能夠認為說他在這邊是有明天的他在這邊是有希望的是有前途的最後就會出現年輕人的離職率就會比較高"},{"start":12850.442,"end":12873.437,"text":"所以部長我真的覺得我們今天如果看我們的這些公股行庫沒有錯公股行庫因為有一些你們負擔一些政策性的使命所以當然你可能不像民營的反正就是今天我一定要獲利獲利獲利賺錢嘛但是我們的流幣也真的太多了所以我"},{"start":12875.76,"end":12902.532,"text":"剩下一點點時間請你回應我們可不可以就我們公股的行庫的董事長總經理能夠遵守我們過去的規定65歲出任68歲也差不多了嘛感謝這些老董事長老總經理的貢獻也讓年輕人可以表現一下可不可以"},{"start":12904.282,"end":12917.871,"text":"報告我想這涉及到相關的一些規定那超過65歲跟68歲的話那都要抱怨抱怨核准這個我想這先跟您做這個報告那我也謝謝委員非常對於我們宮古航庫的一些關切跟期許當然"},{"start":12919.972,"end":12926.278,"text":"有弊端的部分我一直說過我們絕不包庇也不隱瞞一定是誠實的面對嚴正的處理那人員的一個流財攬財這非常重要我們一定要做好第一個從待遇裡面我們給予調整然後升遷的管道必須要暢通那我非常認同委員所提的"},{"start":12939.411,"end":12954.633,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":12954.633,"end":12970.671,"text":"可不可以你們再去研究過去的65歲68歲可以把它落實下來啊抱怨是要你們抱怨你們都不抱怨的話院裡面繼續去掌控這些人士啊我今天講的在掌控人士就在新政院裡面坐著啊"},{"start":12972.086,"end":12992.617,"text":"大家都知道現在誰在掌控這些宮古行庫的人士啊你們不抱怨那當然願樂的輕鬆樂的在用這些人啊用自己人好不好我還是非常希望我們能夠真的要有改革的勇氣好不好謝謝委員謝謝王洪威委員質詢接著我們請謝一峰委員質詢"},{"start":13004.057,"end":13006.639,"text":"謝謝主席我想要請部長有請庄部長部長你好不好意思我時間不夠我相信大家對於就是超徵的這個稅就是說不管是我們在鎮鎖稅或者是在就是出口的相關稅我們統計我們統計處的"},{"start":13031.584,"end":13044.052,"text":"蔡處長有來嗎今年的預估的數值是多少然後也順便跟大家報告一下然後還有目前呢"},{"start":13045.872,"end":13066.412,"text":"從過去以來我們的薪資所得好像都是就是同樣都是用所得稅的科證嘛不論是任何的職業別嘛但是目前對於所謂的核心醫院或者是重大的醫療院所就是醫學中心等等"},{"start":13067.213,"end":13084.927,"text":"那我們發現到就是有一些科別照不到醫生的原因在於在醫院任職的時候稅率跟在診所任職的稅率是不同的那在診所因為他們以合夥人的方式來科稅"},{"start":13085.888,"end":13112.955,"text":"可以就是對於就是說所得的認定以及費用認定是一致性的那對於在醫學中心任職的醫生反而沒有這樣子相關的就是檢免或者是對於費用的認定方面那也造成了醫學中心訓練好一些主要的"},{"start":13114.236,"end":13137.458,"text":"以後他們就流到了診所去那造成了醫學中心的醫生不足那在我們彰化的這一次的就是家福的兩位三位三姐弟的事件裡面就發現了兒科醫生不足那這也發生在臺北臺大那甚至在外科"},{"start":13137.858,"end":13151.032,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":13151.491,"end":13172.94,"text":"當然我們知道說在理論上來說當然如果我們從理論上來看對於有能力者給予科與較低的稅負會使得有能力者對於社會的付出跟貢獻跟產值比較大但是主要國家"},{"start":13173.74,"end":13185.816,"text":"歐美國家都沒有人採取跟理論相同的方式雖然說部長不是稅務出身的但是你也應該了解"},{"start":13187.681,"end":13203.331,"text":"但是有沒有可能是我們對於這些主要醫學中心跟核心醫院相關缺乏的醫生、科別,我不是說所有醫生,就是相關的科別"},{"start":13203.951,"end":13218.339,"text":"能不能給予稅賦上面的就是說不要跟地區診所差異太大這樣子的情況下給予他們相對高的誘因"},{"start":13219.76,"end":13246.782,"text":"來留任於主要的醫學中心我相信我們每一個人都可能會用到這些醫療的需求最後一天我們會用到我們也希望在於這些重要的醫學中心跟相關的科別不會因為醫療人員的缺乏導致於病人的受益權受到相關的受損"},{"start":13248.183,"end":13277.592,"text":"所以有沒有可能我們部也可以去提出部版的當然委員這邊可以提出委員的版本那部裡面有沒有辦法去研議相關的戰刑條例我認為不知道這個誘因能夠能不能夠達成因為我們課稅有兩種嘛我們課稅先課了以後再去補貼那是課稅後做"},{"start":13279.953,"end":13297.458,"text":"但是我們有沒有可能在稅前我們就做這樣子的一個差別的就是部分那這是兩種方式我覺得部長我們是不是可以做這樣子的考慮然後降低這樣子的效率"},{"start":13299.082,"end":13324.765,"text":"委員說明剛剛您提一個問題是出口的問題我們12月的出口總值達到868億美元那比去年的同期是增加9.7%所以是正成長那全年的出口會比去年的出口成長6.1%所以是一個很正向的一個方向那您剛剛提到有關稅賦的部分尤其是在醫事人員的稅賦的部分我想委員剛剛想得非常的一些清楚"},{"start":13325.365,"end":13351.133,"text":"那這個部分的話復稅署這邊也有所瞭解那是不是我們再做一個研議跟委員做報告好嗎我們好可是我現在想請復稅署先回答報告委員因為現在如果說我們講醫事人員好了假設是因為他受雇那受雇的部分他領的就是薪資不管你是大醫院或在診所只要是受雇關係都是薪資所得那薪資所得的課徵方式當然就有"},{"start":13351.693,"end":13368.929,"text":"那我說的是幼齡嗎?那如果您講的那種是他自己出來開 變成執行業務者就是他自己開了一個診所他自己就是負責人那這種叫執行業務者他本身要自負盈虧簡單講雇用的醫師或是他所謂的護士都是他自己負的"},{"start":13369.469,"end":13370.55,"text":"但是我們必須要考量到我剛才說是誘因嗎"},{"start":13384.6,"end":13409.87,"text":"我們有一種叫做我們就是稅前對於他給予誘因給予租稅上面的誘因讓他願意留在那個位置上不要離開或者是因為他們本來在這些集中症的地方他們本來就面對的相關的醫療的糾紛以及相關的工作壓力等等就比一般的診所大"},{"start":13410.23,"end":13426.783,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":13429.666,"end":13448.503,"text":"讓人民對於職業的選擇是有自由性的即便我們提供這樣子的誘因他也不一定會留在這樣的職業上面那在這樣子的情況下我認為是不是應該提出戰型條例我們可以看這個情況是怎麼樣子的就是說到底"},{"start":13449.565,"end":13466.264,"text":"會不會對這個情況改善那也不用說讓這個條例免稅的條例提高過長那也沒有辦法看出這個情況那甚至會影響就是說未來你們租稅的公平好不好"},{"start":13467.95,"end":13481.258,"text":"那這幾個面向我們都來考量好謝謝委員謝謝謝一芳委員的質詢接下來我們請蘇卿卿委員蘇卿委員蘇卿委員蘇卿委員不在接著我們請何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在接著我們請鄭天才委員質詢"},{"start":13497.194,"end":13499.036,"text":"主席 各位委員 有請部長有請莊部長委員好部長好"},{"start":13508.089,"end":13509.53,"text":"政府承認原住民族土地及自然資源的潛力"},{"start":13538.329,"end":13565.584,"text":"當然這個原住民族基本法還沒有公布施行之前在民國76年台灣省政府就因應實際上的一個需要而這個需要是當初因為相關的這些法制不完備導致原住民族很多的土地尤其是一直使用耕作的土地"},{"start":13567.418,"end":13588.361,"text":"因為沒有登記所以全部被登記為國有才會開始有所謂的真化編原住民保留地這個部長過去在國產署也協助解決了很多那這段時間也切實救所有的"},{"start":13589.868,"end":13615.633,"text":"這工廠管理機關來講在中央的工廠管理機關而言這個財政部國產署是最支持的但是還是有一些需要去突破的地方第一個就是說這個很多我們的土地我們鄉親在使用的土地一直都在使用但是因為沒有這個成豬"},{"start":13618.697,"end":13636.014,"text":"我們有成豬然後會跟林地林地有成豬而成豬的人不是原住民或是有重疊或是那個高低落差有時候土地一個地號比如說這個我們就講這個這個地"},{"start":13642.335,"end":13670.254,"text":"有高低落差但是地號是同一個這麼高的地方這個這麼矮的地方實際上使用他只有使用到下面的那我使用的是這裡的但是因為有成豬這個地方有另外一個成豬人而且不是原住民在這樣的情況之下有豬也有成豬按照我國產署的資料"},{"start":13671.803,"end":13697.235,"text":"因為是有另外成都人事實上就是我在使用啊原住民在使用啊但是因為被出租出去了就一直沒有辦法解決這方面的問題所以雖然這個林地另外的林地所有人證明說確實是他在使用一直他在使用符合增花邊保有一定的條件"},{"start":13699.056,"end":13722.762,"text":"或者是有其他部落的頭目、其老去證明或村長證明但是還是因為你們的資料就是別人在懲處啊像這樣的有很多不少這樣的個案這個像這種的就是要去突破等到是不是可以再最起碼你租約也會期滿啊"},{"start":13724.787,"end":13739.855,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":13740.401,"end":13757.588,"text":"我跟委員 照委員所敘述的我們這國有土地的出租基本上是出租給實際使用人嘛那如果照委員剛剛敘述就是說這個成都人他成都的範圍是一整個地號但實際上是沒有用那麼多對不對然後旁邊是有原住民的"},{"start":13758.188,"end":13786.077,"text":"同胞在使用那這個部分就涉及到租約範圍的一個調整那要看實地的一個使用情形然後能夠確認這個部分原住民同胞使用這個部分不是我們這個陳租人實際在使用那就涉及到租約的一個範圍的調整嗎對如果能夠確實證明跟實地的一些勘查的資料是好那這個部分我不知道實務上是有這樣的一個就是當然您說實務上有很多案例我們在處理上是不是發生了一些沒有處理的情形我們來主案處理這樣好不好"},{"start":13788.058,"end":13793.785,"text":"好讓那個部長齁這個陳年老案齁移持箱"},{"start":13795.373,"end":13824.48,"text":"然後現在這個區塊是我們邵族的鄉親台灣原住民族人口最少的邵族的鄉親邵族這個民族他們原來是在日月潭裡面是因為日濟時代蓋這個日月潭把他們遷到這邊來遷到這邊來了之後並沒有給他土地所有錢沒有給他土地所有錢一直到"},{"start":13825.523,"end":13853.888,"text":"民國七十幾年吳敦義當南投縣長的時候那時候要四地重劃四地重劃他們都沒有辦法被分配為什麼沒有辦法被分配因為他們沒有土地所有錢沒有辦法被分配所以為了解決少主的鄉親我那時候在台灣省政府我們就給他增化編原住民保育地先增化編保育地再辦四地重劃"},{"start":13855.709,"end":13880.846,"text":"辦事曆籌劃之後辦事曆籌劃會我的土地本來在這邊會到另外一邊嘛事曆籌劃嘛對不對然後這一筆土地上有一個房子在那邊有一個房子譬如說我的房子然後因為事曆籌劃之後跑到這邊但是房子還是我還在啊"},{"start":13882.318,"end":13896.945,"text":"以後分配到你那邊分配到你但是因為你知道都是同鄉啊都是自己人啊就會讓他繼續住像這樣的那因為是這樣的一個一個問題我開過很多次協調會所以部分這個部分這個"},{"start":13899.511,"end":13902.936,"text":"行政院中辦也開過協調會所以我們要很務實的很務實的去處理這個問題因為時間大有關係了這個委員要請署長"},{"start":13915.64,"end":13940.265,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":13950.58,"end":13955.223,"text":"主席、各委員、處列席、官員大家好。主席有可不可以請財政部部長。有請莊部長。委員好。莊部長你好。我們看到整個國內的財政情況,這幾年稅收一直都超徵。那去年的稅收超徵多少?"},{"start":13973.325,"end":13991.124,"text":"去年的部分我們的實收數超過預算數的部分在全國的部分是3861億但是這3861億要給地方要496億因為屬於中央統籌分配稅款然後進入中央特種基金有430億所以真正歸到中央的是2934億"},{"start":13996.048,"end":14008.713,"text":"是2934億所以國庫是跟以前比起來是還蠻充裕的啦齁那因為去年超徵前年稅收也超徵前年大概稅收是超徵多少"},{"start":14012.574,"end":14013.655,"text":"所以看起來是國庫的錢是非常的充裕"},{"start":14040.697,"end":14053.147,"text":"但是部長你知道現在整個國內的貧富懸殊一直持續在擴大現在這個貧富懸殊的比是多少比例"},{"start":14054.935,"end":14055.195,"text":"財政部主管預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":14080.721,"end":14107.159,"text":"本席要強調要討論的就是因為貧富懸殊的擴大所以你這個數字還沒給我那幾倍?六點幾倍?主計總署的數據我們再瞭解一下上面有啊其實部長我跟你討論的就是說在臺灣的年輕人其實是很辛苦的"},{"start":14109.071,"end":14133.943,"text":"國家不是沒錢國家國庫是非常的飽滿的你們包括徵交稅別的不說國安基金也賺了很多錢希望部長面對現在的這個事實你有沒有準備幫國內的年輕人你能幫助什麼"},{"start":14136.525,"end":14140.488,"text":"報告在稅的部分其實您也知道我們大幅的調高免稅額跟標準扣除額然後幼兒學錢特別扣除額也調整然後租金支出也從列舉改到特別扣除額我想這個部分一直協助"},{"start":14153.115,"end":14179.357,"text":"就是說中低收入者他可以減輕租稅的負擔這個是一直都在做的然後其實我們有百分之44的民眾事實上是每就有293萬戶他的申報的稅率是0因為我們提高了這相關的扣除額以後那需要繳稅的民眾就變得減少的對所以部長現在一個問題喔你說百分之四十幾的部分他其實可以不用申報的"},{"start":14180.868,"end":14208.559,"text":"就是申報也不用繳稅是這個意思可是貧富懸殊還是持續在擴大本席在這裡建議部長您收了那麼多的錢能不能想一個好的方式幫助40歲以下的年輕人你能給他什麼你能在大幅度能幫助什麼"},{"start":14209.95,"end":14231.604,"text":"其實我這一整個會期我在等的就是財政部你可以拿出什麼具體的方案比如說能不能鼓勵年輕人他以後要生小孩現在是結婚都不敢結婚生也不敢生這個問題其實我覺得財政部應該多做一點事"},{"start":14233.323,"end":14260.672,"text":"比如說結婚我是隨便提提啦那 詳細的這個實際的行動你們要提出方案啦比如說我來提的話我大概想說年輕人他比如說鼓勵他結婚啦但是要真的是兩個相愛的啦不是結了要一下離婚那一種真心要結婚的比如說我本人來講我就覺得那可不可以國家每個人就給他兩百萬"},{"start":14262.685,"end":14290.31,"text":"生一個小孩馬上就補助他一百萬因為上次總統有人在講啊就是第三胎給一百萬我是覺得第一胎他就是需要幫助我們馬上給他一百萬因為國家不是沒錢啊那我所提這個現階段大家都不認真去思考有很多好的國家他們就福利政策就是那麼好的啊"},{"start":14291.577,"end":14320.114,"text":"類似的福利政策對不對歐洲國家還有像沙烏地阿拉伯還有很多其他國家財源是富足的他們是整體性的是配套性的來支持年輕人台灣不是啊台灣有錢就趕快花什麼編什麼錢簪啊或者是做一些大家覺得是浪費的"},{"start":14321.328,"end":14336.945,"text":"沒有實際用在刀口上的所以是產生了很多的文字館 對不對或者是武器一次買了幾千億幾千億是不是可以"},{"start":14338.659,"end":14355.062,"text":"請部長想一下這個會期你當部長也當很久了你能不能提出一個比較具體可以幫助年輕人的的方案我非常認同委員的一個看法也就是說幫助年輕人"},{"start":14355.282,"end":14374.65,"text":"閱讀"},{"start":14374.73,"end":14403.022,"text":"支出面給他們一些資源比如說公立學校或私立學校的高中級以上的高中級的學生免學費等等我想這個部分政府都是在各個方面來做補助那另外比如說像我們親安貸款那個都是杯水車薪那這個就是說支出面要達到多少的問題那個都是於事無補啊大家也無感啊如果以上剛剛所講的很棒"},{"start":14403.971,"end":14419.697,"text":"我跟你拍拍手可是貧富懸殊還是那麼大還是持續在擴增當中表示這些政策提出是不夠的我舉個例子現在財政的發行我們全部的這個經銷點有幾個點五萬個點那部長"},{"start":14428.411,"end":14454.662,"text":"我們以前的這條例大概十幾年前對於這些經銷商都是老弱婦孺殘障他們才可以有這個資格去做彩券商那你知道這幾年物價飆漲工資從120現在180幾他的一些成本其實一直高漲你過去給他們是多少的服務費"},{"start":14461.411,"end":14479.095,"text":"電腦型的佣金率是8%然後立即型的呱呱樂是10%好那8%的部分夠不夠這個是在公告的事項裡面所以這目前資料而且過去那你面對這些若是團體他們現在開的這些彩券行現在電價要飆漲"},{"start":14487.15,"end":14512.829,"text":"人事成本也增加租金也增加所以相對的剝削你的8%事實上他現在賺不到8%了相較之下可能只有剩下5%那這個部分對這些弱勢族群單親家庭這些經銷商財政商的服務費要不要給予這個"},{"start":14514.946,"end":14542.694,"text":"增加我想透過這樣的一個固定比例如果說大家在一些產品的設計上能夠讓大家更多來參與那個工材的話他透過這個餅做大了以後銷售額變大其實層上那個8%或10%的那個金額也就會變多了那問題你這量有增加嗎這個是大家要努力的目標沒有啊去年跟前年比起來是節節衰退啊"},{"start":14547.141,"end":14565.385,"text":"現在可以說是百物齊掌啊民生凋敝很多民眾的生活啊他是很困難的啊所以本席在這裡有提了一個案啊就是紅標米酒啊現在要凍漲"},{"start":14566.994,"end":14588.692,"text":"不曉得部長能不能體恤民意啊在萬物飆漲的時候拜託拜託紅飆米酒最基本的民生物資啊這個部分不要漲好不好好的委員這邊的一個提案我們就暫時動長我們遵照辦理是可以齁好感謝謝謝謝謝董委員那個待會要處理連題你要留下來要處理連題"},{"start":14604.254,"end":14622.944,"text":"今天的發言委員已經詢答完畢現在要處理中央政府總預算財政主管預算的解凍案的這個報告案共9案那因為法定人數不足我們先宣讀這個我們的臨時提案共有兩案請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":14625.782,"end":14644.677,"text":"案1有鑒於我國租屋市場課稅難題存在已久不僅影響付稅公平且在擔心房東超額轉嫁給房客情形下政府相關租屋政策動輒得救導致對於租屋市場管理能力不佳儘管不斷推出公益出租人等政策"},{"start":14645.217,"end":14657.51,"text":"然成效不佳近年台灣社會對居住正義議題日益重視政府處管廣建設宅陸續通過房地合一稅租賃專法屯房稅2.0等法案應趁此機會徹底檢視解決房東逃漏稅問題"},{"start":14664.127,"end":14681.393,"text":"原此要求財政部應於一個月內提出免追溯租金所得稅等誘因之租稅特色可行性評估以強化房東納管比例之作法提案人郭國文、連署人武力華、王世堅"},{"start":14684.622,"end":14709.66,"text":"案有2借於近期物價飆漲二月CPI年增率衝破3%其中以食物類漲幅最驚人為照顧民眾生活原要求財政部旗下臺灣煙酒公司將紅標米酒等民生物資暫時凍漲提案人羅明才李燕秀陳玉珍王宏威謝一鳳宣讀完畢"},{"start":14711.233,"end":14717.741,"text":"好 謝謝那個兩個提案請財政部準備一下然後我們待會等其他委員到場我們再繼續我們休息3分鐘"},{"start":15144.656,"end":15166.453,"text":"我們現在繼續開會那針對今天的解凍案9案不知道在場各位有沒有異議沒有異議那我們通過審查完略遵禮動之提報院會我們現在處理臨時案第一案請財政部"},{"start":15171.675,"end":15185.704,"text":"臨時提提案我們遵照辦理好那這兩個臨時提案就這樣照案通過本次會議做如下決議報告說明及詢"},{"start":15193.237,"end":15215.74,"text":"第二案就修正後遵照辦理嘛對不對第二案修正後遵照辦理兩案均照案通過那個修正後通過來本次會議做如下決議報告說明及詢答完畢委員質詢為及答覆及補充資訊請財政部於一周內以書面答覆委員另有要求期限者從期約定"},{"start":15219.032,"end":15235.528,"text":"針對113年中央政府總預算凍結案的處理行情財政部主管均已處理完畢 準以動之提報院會請問各位委員對於以上決議有異議沒有 通過本次會議議程已進行完畢堂友不在場委員五題書面質詢一併列入記錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理上會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}