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對不對"},{"start":57.59,"end":78.585,"text":"那根據你們114年度就是說明年度的預算編列這個向下的委辦費只有編列到1672萬相對你整個經濟部的預算裡頭這個算是很小的比113年度還少了322萬那當然我們知道就是說整個投資台灣的這一些"},{"start":80.947,"end":95.797,"text":"經費發展其實都是在國發會向下經濟部大概就是成立一個單一的服務窗口來服務這些台商部長我想讓您看一下這個是到目前為止經濟部原來的目標是2024年年底要帶動國內的投資是2.4兆預計要創造16.8萬個本國的就業機會"},{"start":105.904,"end":119.57,"text":"當然經濟部發了一個蠻不錯的訊息就是說到目前為止到10月中為止你們已經帶動的國內投資是2兆3614億元就是達到預期的目標是98%創造的就業機會也達到15萬多個你們的這個達成率也到91%看起來這個數字其實是蠻不錯的不過我想要更進一步請教"},{"start":134.156,"end":148.984,"text":"就你們提供的這些辦理的情形報告裡頭其實在進行中的加速包括台商回台的方案跟留台灣的方案中小企業的方案進行中的大概只有41%點多那"},{"start":151.365,"end":174.971,"text":"根據台灣的方案跟中小企業方案也勉強過了五成部長可不可以說明一下這個大概有一半的左右的這些投資案沒有完成到底是什麼原因從2019年的整個大計畫投資台灣的大計畫開始實施一直到今年年底還有差不多將近一半沒有完成你們可不可以稍微分析一下是"},{"start":175.911,"end":195.126,"text":"有什麼樣的阻礙,或者是說有什麼樣的行政程序沒有走完?來,部長,讓您說明一下。我想最大的原因就是我們職工的招聘有一點困難。職工的招聘?你是說受聘人員?受聘人員,這個跟缺工是有很大的關係。是的。"},{"start":195.566,"end":196.367,"text":"投資部：邱議瑩"},{"start":222.775,"end":237.828,"text":"謝謝邱委員的資訊那我這邊利用這機會做一個說明就是三大方案在112年度的部分它應該完成的加數是593家那實際上是完成了561家那其實完成率是有達到95"},{"start":239.309,"end":241.79,"text":"部長有說所謂的投資台灣三大方案未來還要再延長"},{"start":261.246,"end":287.139,"text":"我在想有沒有可能我是不是到今年年底為止經濟部能夠送一個檢討報告出來就是針對從2019年到現在你們所執行的成效做一個檢討那未來我們的投資台灣三大方案還要再往下延到2017年還要再往下延那你未來希望達到的目標是不是也能夠再"},{"start":287.739,"end":288.019,"text":"國務委員會提出報告"},{"start":307.066,"end":328.951,"text":"現在剩下兩個月就今年就過完了嘛2024年就過完了嘛所以你如果我讓您到2024年結束之後2025年的年初是不是能夠給立法院給經濟委員會一個完整的檢討報告然後接下來接下去你們的下一個延長的期程預計要做到什麼樣的"},{"start":330.892,"end":349.626,"text":"預計要做到什麼樣的目標是不是也能夠提出一併的規劃可以嗎好我們來努力好謝謝來部長那我接下來你講到投資台灣大概也不外乎每個人都會問到嘛水啊夠不夠啊電啊夠不夠啊所以電夠不夠這件事情大家一直"},{"start":350.587,"end":351.329,"text":"除了台灣的電夠不夠的問題是除能系統的規劃"},{"start":361.465,"end":383.992,"text":"本席大概在5年前就開始在立法院這裡倡議臺電應該要建置儲能系統那這個我們看到這個是臺電的所謂的資料整理從鹽田光電到高雄的鹿園到龍潭到東山到民間業者跟電力交易平台的這個建置這一張圖是東山的這個變電所所建置的儲能設備"},{"start":385.592,"end":400.522,"text":"東山的變電所所建置的除能設備是可以滿足8000戶家庭一日所需的除能系統的建置放在一個超高壓的變電所"},{"start":403.043,"end":417.254,"text":"我不知道部長能不能回答還是請台電你們未來在相關的這一些超高壓變電所的儲能建置除了你現在列出來的這一些以外有沒有再增加的可能性"},{"start":418.48,"end":446.235,"text":"跟委員報告就是除能的需求是逐步逐步的成長那目前現在應該是要大幅的成長吧你有很多的再生能源是對火力發電你其實是需要很多的除能系統是因為我們台灣有個優勢就是有個日月潭的抽蓄電廠那個是在全世界是非常罕見的一個好的一個措施這個部分就提供了2.6GW的這個量目前我們系統上面的除能"},{"start":447.736,"end":476.342,"text":"總共大概已經有2.2GW所以2.6再加1.2總共已經有3.8GW的這樣儲能這個可以滿足多少的用電戶如果以剛才看到的你這樣子可以滿足多少來這個是你們台電的這個逐日用電曲線也可以看出你的儲能其實也發揮了相當的功效嘛對不對總經理那您剛剛講的那一些能夠滿足多少的用電戶甚至就是說部長拍胸脯保證"},{"start":478.103,"end":482.158,"text":"的這些用電的需求量,台電如何能夠來逐步達成?"},{"start":484.26,"end":511.549,"text":"這個部分主要是我們的除能的目的主要是做白天太陽光電大的時候把電除下來到晚上我們盡量不要用傳統的火力機組來發電主要是這個目的所以你的除能的建置其實是非常的需要我們現在推動的所謂的再生能源不管你的水力發電火力發電或者是太陽能光電其實能夠把這些多餘的電除下來"},{"start":512.449,"end":514.49,"text":"德國把他們退役的核電廠轉型,變成他們的電池儲能廠。"},{"start":536.311,"end":562.621,"text":"台灣的核電廠已經都在逐步退役當中有沒有可能我們去參考參考先進國家參考德國的這一些核電廠的轉型設施然後來當作台灣未來退役的核電廠也能夠有這樣的一個儲能設備的建置儲能廠的建置把它轉型成電池的儲能廠"},{"start":564.484,"end":569.913,"text":"報導委員 我想我們現行的這個核能廠它的廚藝完成需要25年"},{"start":571.425,"end":574.147,"text":"其實你的廚藝需要25年嘛但是你現在如果開始規劃或者是說開始有這樣進一步否則你那個原來的退役的核電廠的地址"},{"start":597.168,"end":597.188,"text":"謝謝 謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":193,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時33分）謝謝主席，我是不是請一下郭部長？"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長早。部長，我想今天我們在討論經濟部明年度的總預算，當然，經濟部主掌很重要的一個，就是臺灣的經濟發展，整個投資臺灣的計畫，所以部長，我第一個想跟您請教的是投資臺灣的三大方案，這個應該算是經濟部一個很重要的課題，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["邱委員議瑩：根據你們114年度（明年度）的預算編列，這個項下的委辦費只有編列1,672萬，相對整個經濟部的預算裡頭，這個算是很小的，比113年度還少了322萬。當然我們知道整個投資臺灣的這些經費發展其實都是在國發會項下，經濟部大概就是成立一個單一服務窗口來服務這些臺商。部長，我想讓您看一下，這個是到目前為止，經濟部原來的目標是2024年年底要帶動國內的投資2.4兆，預計要創造16.8萬個本國的就業機會，當然經濟部發了蠻不錯的訊息，就是到10月中為止，你們已經帶動的國內投資是2兆3,614億元，達到預期目標的百分之九十八，創造的就業機會達到十五萬多個，達成率也到百分之九十一，看起來這個數字其實是蠻不錯的啦！不過我想要更進一步請教，就你們提供這一些辦理情形的報告裡頭，其實在進行中的家數，包括臺商回臺的方案、根留臺灣的方案、中小企業的方案，大概只有百分之四十一點多，根留臺灣的方案跟中小企業方案也勉強過了五成，部長可不可以說明一下，大概有一半左右的投資案沒有完成，到底是什麼原因？從2019年整個投資臺灣的大計畫開始實施一直到今年年底，還有差不多將近一半沒有完成，你們可不可以稍微分析一下是有什麼樣的阻礙，或者是有什麼樣的行政程序沒有走完？讓部長說明一下。"],["郭部長智輝：我想最大的原因就是職工的招聘有一點困難。"],["邱委員議瑩：職工的招聘？你是說……"],["郭部長智輝：對，受聘人員。"],["邱委員議瑩：這個跟缺工有很大的關係？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["邱委員議瑩：但是你覺得這個完全都只是因為職工的招聘有困難嗎？在建置上、在資料審核上等等，這些其實都沒有問題？完全都通過了？投資地點、工廠的設置等等？這個是投審會……"],["郭部長智輝：投資部。我請他跟你報告一下。"],["邱委員議瑩：投資部要不要補充說明一下？"],["張司長銘斌：謝謝邱委員的質詢。我利用這個機會說明，三大方案在112年度應該完成的家數是593家，實際上完成了561家，其實完成率有達到95%。今年希望到年底可以完成913家，目前已經完成的就有689家，其他……"],["邱委員議瑩：我是說你們現在提供的這些資料，大概只有過一半而已，部長有說所謂的投資臺灣三大方案未來還要再延長，我在想有沒有可能，是不是到今年年底為止，經濟部能夠送一個檢討報告出來？針對你們從2019年到現在所執行的成效檢討，未來投資臺灣三大方案還要再往下延到2027年，你未來希望達到的目標是不是也能夠再跟國人做一些說明，或者是跟立法院做一些說明？"],["張司長銘斌：我們會提出一個完整的報告……"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，這個可不可以？能不能做得到？"],["郭部長智輝：可以。"],["邱委員議瑩：你們的這個報告預計什麼時候可以給？是明年年初嗎？還是？現在剩下兩個月今年就過完了，2024年就過完了，如果我讓您到2024年結束之後、2025年的年初是不是能夠給立法院經濟委員會一個完整的檢討報告？接下去，你們下一個延長的期程預計要做到什麼樣的目標，是不是也能夠一併提出規劃？可以嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：好，我們來努力。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，謝謝。部長講到投資臺灣，每個人大概也不外乎都會問到水夠不夠、電夠不夠。大家一直在問您電夠不夠這件事情，您也拍胸脯保證，我現在跟您談的不是臺灣的電夠不夠的問題，而是儲能系統的規劃，本席大概在5年前就開始在立法院倡議台電應該要建置儲能系統。這個是台電整理的資料，從鹽田光電到高雄的路園、到龍潭、到冬山、到民間業者，跟電力交易平臺的建置。這一張圖是冬山變電所所建置的儲能設備，你們說冬山變電所所建置的儲能設備可以滿足8,000戶家庭一日所需，對不對？這個儲能系統的建置放在這樣的超高壓變電所，我不知道部長能不能回答，還是請台電？"],["郭部長智輝：我請……"],["邱委員議瑩：你們未來在這一些超高壓變電所的儲能建置，除了現在列出來的這些以外，有沒有再增加的可能性？"],["王總經理耀庭：儲能的需求是逐步的成長，目前台電……"],["邱委員議瑩：現在應該要大幅的成長吧？你有很多的再生能源、火力發電，其實需要很多的儲能系統去搭配。"],["王總經理耀庭：因為臺灣有個優勢，就是日月潭有抽蓄電廠，那個是在全世界非常罕見的好措施，這個部分就提供了2.6 GW的量，目前我們系統上面的儲能總共大概已經有1.2 GW，所以2.6再加1.2，總共已經有3.8個GW的儲能可以調節。"],["邱委員議瑩：這個可以滿足多少用電戶？"],["王總經理耀庭：如果以剛才看到的冬山……"],["邱委員議瑩：你看這樣可以滿足多少？這個是你們台電的逐日用電曲線，也可以看出儲能其實發揮了相當的功效，對不對？"],["王總經理耀庭：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：您剛剛講的那一些能夠滿足多少用電戶，甚至部長拍胸脯保證的這一些用電需求量，台電如何能夠來逐步達成？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們儲能的目的主要是白天太陽光電大的時候……"],["邱委員議瑩：我知道。"],["王總經理耀庭：把電儲下來，到了晚上，我們儘量不要用傳統的火力機組來發電，主要是這個目的。"],["邱委員議瑩：我知道，所以你的儲能建置其實是非常的需要嘛？"],["王總經理耀庭：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：我們現在推動所謂的再生能源，不管水力發電、火力發電或者是太陽能光電，能夠把這些多餘的電儲下來供夜間使用非常重要，我希望未來你們有整體的儲電設置。部長，我讓您看一下，您或許有看過這個。德國把退役的核電廠轉型變成電池儲能廠，臺灣的核電廠已經都在逐步退役當中，我們有沒有可能參考先進國家、參考德國這一些核電廠的轉型設施，讓臺灣未來退役的核電廠也能夠建置這樣的儲能設備、儲能廠，把它轉型成電池的儲能廠？"],["郭部長智輝：現行核能廠除役完成需要25年，要經過核安會的審查，同意以後才可以進行轉型。不過剛才委員所垂詢的部分，我們回去會檢討，應該送核安會討論的，我們都會進行。"],["邱委員議瑩：雖然除役需要25年，但現在應該開始規劃或者開始有這樣進一步的動作，否則你總是要讓核電廠原來的、退役的場址可以再利用，對於能源的政策，我們總是要能夠跟得上世界的腳步，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，我覺得這個可以開始去做一些思考，也可以開始參考德國、一些先進國家怎麼樣去做，總好比很多人一天到晚說要使用核電，其實人家都在轉型了，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["邱委員議瑩：謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：請張啓楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-17","speakers":["呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra 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