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MANGA"},{"start":1758.373,"end":1783.393,"text":"好報告委員會我們現在繼續開會今天的議程是邀請教育部列席就落實特殊教育法配套的措施還有普特融合教育實施的概況我們來進行專題的報告並備質詢我們首先介紹在場的委員在場委員都在路上其實我們介紹與會的官員因為我們教育部這次這個禮拜常常看到所以我們就只介紹幾位"},{"start":1785.495,"end":1807.352,"text":"教育部常務次長林藤角還有學前教育署彭副園彭署長還有學生15級特殊教育司吳林輝吳司長還有其他同仁我就不一一介紹了感謝各位今天的到場目前為止我們就請委員"},{"start":1810.455,"end":1812.563,"text":"我們就請教育部的林次長來進行報告報告的時間是10分鐘謝謝"},{"start":1821.085,"end":1847.162,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士、先生、大家好今天應邀列席貴委員會就《落實特殊教育法配套措施及普特融合教育實施概況》進行專題報告以下僅從特殊教育法配套措施與普特融合教育實施概況與未來規劃方向等進行重點說明首先就特殊教育法配套措施的部分特殊教育法在112年6月21日"},{"start":1849.183,"end":1870.575,"text":"修正公佈．從法字面建構完善特教體系．並具以增加預算．規劃特教師生比．特教學生助理人員．服務量能及待遇．鑑定評估人員負擔及報酬．無障礙校園環境．精簡特教評鑑等配套措施．分別說明如下"},{"start":1871.556,"end":1877.679,"text":"本部在韓國教署提議署編列113年的特教經費總共152.73億元較上一年度增加21.32億元增加比例達16.23%其中國教署增編14.3億元增加比例達51%"},{"start":1894.761,"end":1910.59,"text":"降低特有教班生師比部分．國教署已完成各縣市特有教班生師比的盤查．後續規劃將生師比納入法規統一規定．且列為對地方政府補助款考核指標．並於113年增編1.1億元獎勵調降生師比．"},{"start":1916.053,"end":1931.155,"text":"在擴大特教學生助理人員服務量及提升待遇部分．擬定執行提升高級中等以下學校及幼兒園．特教學生助理人員服務品質計畫．透過增加月薪"},{"start":1932.196,"end":1956.184,"text":"至盡用提升待遇．增加補助學生助理人員經費．強化助理人員專業資能等方式．提升特殊教育服務品質．保障身心障礙學生學習權益．另外．減輕特教學生評估人員負擔．並給予合理補償部分．嚴定高級中等以下學校及幼兒園．身心障礙學生及幼兒評估人員．"},{"start":1957.164,"end":1979.202,"text":"資格權益及培訓辦法草案明定減少評估案件量．予合理報酬．統一規定培訓課程及時數．提供充足之評估工具等規定．藉以提升鑑定評估作業．減輕評估人員負擔另外,在建置校園無障礙環境部分．本部及國教署113年編列9.24億元．"},{"start":1982.364,"end":2006.934,"text":"改善無障礙環境經費．112年增加4.04億元．並訂定學校無障礙設施設置要點．學校常用活動場所清查項目．落實清查盤點無障礙設施令．委託臺灣建築中心之專業團隊．示範整體性覆盤及檢視改善計畫之合理性與工程途說．強化整體改善的品質．"},{"start":2007.674,"end":2025.064,"text":"另外在特教評鑑簡化的部分．也透過修正高級中等以下學校及幼兒園特殊教育評鑑辦法．簡化評鑑指標合併評鑑考核機制以減少行政負擔．令對評鑑未通過者提供必要之輔導與資源協助"},{"start":2027.845,"end":2056.648,"text":"第二部分在普特融合教育實施概況與未來規劃方向部分112年身心障礙學生在一般學校及幼兒園就讀者佔96.6%為了讓其獲得教育權之實質平等特就一般教育法規納入融合教育規定教師課程調整及差異化教學面對特定障礙學生之班及經營身心障礙學生表育權"},{"start":2057.228,"end":2078.454,"text":"落實融合教育宣導等方面分別說明如下首先在研議相關教育法規納入推動融合教育規定部分國教署現正諮詢普通教育、特殊教育、知識學者專家、校長、教師等研析在國民教育法、高級中等教育法、幼兒教育及照顧法等各階段"},{"start":2079.554,"end":2104.423,"text":"普通教育法規中納入融合教育推動策略與相關規定。2、在提升教師課程調整及差異化教學資能部分﹐藉由辦理各教育階段學習功能缺陷之課程調整應用研習﹐特教輔導團工作聯繫匯報﹐即課程調整實務工作方嚴定IEP參考資金等提升教師專業資能﹐"},{"start":2106.143,"end":2131.129,"text":"3、在提升教師對特定障礙類別學生班級經營資能部分﹐辦理情緒及行為問題專業支援教師培訓計畫﹐協助地方政府培訓種子教師﹐並辦理普特合作﹐課程調整實務﹐行為功能介入案實作﹐三級預防緊急應變機制等主題研習﹐以提升輔導智能與成效﹐"},{"start":2133.129,"end":2147.137,"text":"提升身心障礙學生表益權部份﹐辦理促進身心障礙學生表達力﹐自我決策與其參與活動權益計畫﹐編訂身心障礙學生申訴與服務支持機制一讀版及"},{"start":2147.857,"end":2176.174,"text":"辦理後續推廣活動．即使身心障礙學生能夠自由表達意見．5推動融合教育宣導及充實相關資源．沿邊身心障礙者權利公約教育人員宣導手冊．宣導平等與不歧視參與融合教育．通用設計、合理調整等觀念．並在本部特教數位課程平臺．優質特教平臺提供教師線上學習之各種專業課程．以促進推動融合教育"},{"start":2177.054,"end":2203.243,"text":"下一步,非常感謝各委員關注特殊教育與融合教育議題至98年修正特殊教育法時新增融合制規定逐步推動至今,歷經12年國民基本教育課綱身心障礙者權利公約及兒童權利公約國家報告、國際審查身心障礙者表達意見、參與政策規劃提供個別化知識等日獲重視在特殊教育法"},{"start":2203.743,"end":2216.884,"text":"修正公布後．本部持續徵詢身心障礙者及相關團體意見．就各項受關注議題嚴理配套措施．其精進特殊教育與落實融合教育．以上報告 敬請各位委員指教謝謝"},{"start":2220.37,"end":2235.285,"text":"好 謝謝林次長 那我們就是接著介紹在場的我們的委員 黃孟楷委員 萬美玲委員 謝謝還有林倩琦委員 謝謝然後呢 我們現在就開始來進行詢答每位出席的委員質詢時間是8分鐘 必要時間延長為2分鐘"},{"start":2239.349,"end":2263.235,"text":"列席委員質詢的時間是4分鐘．那發言登記截止的時間是上午10點30分．如果委員有臨時提案的話．請於上午10點30分前提出．然後在本會的委員範圍質詢結束之後．我們就要立即進行處理．處理提案的時候若提案的委員及聯署委員均不在場．我們原例就不予處理．我們現在首先請發言登記第一位的萬美玲委員質詢．謝謝"},{"start":2269.304,"end":2297.331,"text":"謝謝張偉,我們有請林藤角次長、武林輝司長還有我們彭富原署長好,請次長跟兩位署長,謝謝萬瑞好好,三位長我想今天討論我們特教其實這個議題真的千頭萬緒,非常的多那我們一步一步來那我們看到這個本席有一個數據我們大家一起看一下在這幾年,從108年到112年我抓了五年的數據我們可以看到高中以下的特教學生數"},{"start":2298.691,"end":2322.324,"text":"大概其實一直維持在2萬4上下的人數那國中小的部分就是不斷去增加那麼從108年的6萬6來到了去年的8萬人那我想其實這個數字絕對是在實際現場的狀況還要高於所以我們現在看到人數不斷的去增加但是今天要跟您討論的包括"},{"start":2323.204,"end":2324.625,"text":"市長有報告說要降低師生比1比8的部分但是我們看到98年的時候立法院有提出修法當時用附帶決議去解決它"},{"start":2338.795,"end":2361.833,"text":"去年我們提出修法．最後還是用附帶決議．把這件事情又做了一個結束可是這麼多年下來．我們看到這個附帶決議．竟沒有法定的效力在教育部的執行上來講．也是非常嚴當、非常慢的所以1比8這件事情．之前兩次都說5年內要完成請教次長．這個1比8什麼時候可以達到?"},{"start":2363.068,"end":2387.754,"text":"跟委員報告一下我想這個部分的話教育部也邀請了包含各縣市政府以及各團體就有關這個希望能夠達到1比8的這個部分來做一些市長你只要告訴我什麼時候可以達到目前的部分的話我們在國中的部分1比8的部分是在5年內會來做一個完成那國小的部分大概是1比10"},{"start":2388.314,"end":2390.936,"text":"市長您現在講的五年內是我們計劃嘛那你有沒有把握一定會做到五年內這一次講真的了我們這次談的是真的了五年之內我們一定可以達到1比8確定嗎?"},{"start":2412.271,"end":2425.886,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛談到的那個比例的部分我們基本上會在5年內那麼努力來這個達成我覺得教育政策是延續的不是因著哪一個部長哪一個次長上下台而有所不同98年我必須這麼講騙過一次112年再來講一次如果我再等待4年後又落空了"},{"start":2433.274,"end":2454.42,"text":"我覺得這樣是不行的我們要知道現在啊我們在特教的孩子的這個我們對他的支持跟老師的支持上其實相對薄弱那麼尤其是在這個師生比上你們知道嗎其實現在的老師尤其是特教老師願意留在特教現場他們是非常非常的辛苦的喔那所以這個1比8次長是有把握在四年的時間一定能完成嗎"},{"start":2455.461,"end":2469.899,"text":"跟委員報告跟我報告就是說在國中的部分1比8五年內會完成那國小是1比10也是五年高中的話也是1比15也是五年六學園的部分因為規模太大"},{"start":2470.179,"end":2489.746,"text":"市長,真的這個玩笑開很大。第一個本席認為您說的這個國中五年內你要達到1比8那你也不敢具體保證那後面講到1比10、1比15其實聽了讓很多特教團體、特教老師、家長其實非常的心寒那你們永遠在這數字上打算"},{"start":2490.126,"end":2505.591,"text":"你殊不知這個數字的背後代表多少我們特教學生、特教老師跟特教家長辛苦我覺得非常的不應該而且是應該要接受撻伐的那我們再來看剛剛提到的都是國中小跟高中當然我們看到學齡前我們看下一張表"},{"start":2506.511,"end":2525.428,"text":"我們看到這個是在幼兒園我們正式的特教老師我就拿六都來看我們臺北市正式特教老師161人那新北市111人桃園市104人我們看到正式的特教老師在學齡前要負責學生的這個學生比平均要負責學生的人數服務比"},{"start":2527.29,"end":2546.887,"text":"臺北市算最好的一個老師都還負責16個學生左右新北市最可怕來到1比41你知道這是什麼工作量嗎本席選區的桃園市也將近要1比30了所以我想在學齡權這個部分更是嚴重所以學齡權這個部分我想這一題我請教司長司長比較專業司長這一題我們怎麼解決"},{"start":2553.613,"end":2553.713,"text":"主席"},{"start":2570.353,"end":2583.246,"text":"你講的這兩個其實都有講到這個有到位有講到重點但是重點是我們開始做了嗎因為這不是今天才造成這樣的數字啊所以你說讓我們要培訓更多有特教專長的這個有幼兒專長有特教專長的這個專業的老師那我們做了嗎我們計畫出來了嗎"},{"start":2589.353,"end":2593.317,"text":"你會後三天內把這個計畫拿出來讓我看看?對不對?都是用口說在這裡每一個委員質詢你10分鐘結束以後反正你不痛不癢"},{"start":2607.388,"end":2628.207,"text":"這樣是不可以的我覺得平常有很多的政策也就罷了但是我覺得特教的孩子特教的學生跟老師我們要加倍加倍再加倍的去支持他但是教育部顯然沒有去做到那我們再來看我們剛剛看到這個比例如果六都都是這樣的狀況其他縣市本席大家今天沒有把它計算出來我都很擔心慘不忍睹那我們再來看"},{"start":2631.05,"end":2657.716,"text":"一到現行法規我們要來聘用這個特教助理人員建府會要能夠去鑑定說這個孩子有在正度以上或者是真的是非常嚴重有特殊的狀況我們來聘嘛那特教助理員會去照顧的其實大概都是狀況比較多的一個孩子那現在他們還是領基本時薪183元那而且低薪工作壓力又重而且工作的條件不穩定"},{"start":2658.496,"end":2680.261,"text":"那您剛剛有提到說我們現在有訂定了一個辦法也就是說這個辦法本席直接講給你聽也就訂定服務時數達到800小時我們就增加它5%的時薪那一時累堆有集數那最高可以到20%的基本時薪你這個措施第一個我當然要問你什麼時候開始實施第二個怪怪的啊"},{"start":2681.101,"end":2691.182,"text":"怪怪的啊前800個小時跟後面的小時他做的事情是一樣的服務孩子的狀況是一樣的為什麼他自己這個人就要有同工不同酬到底是為什麼"},{"start":2693.062,"end":2711.909,"text":"跟委員報告一下,那個針對剛剛那個特效助理員的這個薪資待遇調整這個部分我們已經在去年的9月7號已經報行正願核定提升高級中...我沒有在問你過程啊對,我們的這個服務品質計畫那個市長你今天在這裡答詢,不能啊,我們問我們的,你答你的嘛"},{"start":2712.429,"end":2712.729,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":2735.053,"end":2756.484,"text":"國教署在專報上面有提到在113學年也就是說今年8月1號開始要配置400名月薪制的特教助理員那116年要達到1600名那我想請教一下看你們誰來回答這個月薪制的特教助理人員他所謂的月薪制月薪是多少而且你現在說要禁用1600名那請問一下怎麼去分配到各縣市"},{"start":2760.026,"end":2760.046,"text":"市長"},{"start":2790.086,"end":2795.533,"text":"有關專政月薪制的起薪最低至少是31725元,同時會根據它的續薪一直可以到大概"},{"start":2813.134,"end":2822.784,"text":"每一年會有400位的部分,我們會用分區的部分根據各縣市政府重度以上的學生的人數比例,來做一些合配"},{"start":2823.826,"end":2840.926,"text":"市長提醒一件事情我想3萬1到3萬7至少有一個穩定基本保障了但是其實以他們工作來說還算低但你要考慮到一件事情如果今天你在教育現場特教的現場"},{"start":2841.647,"end":2869.454,"text":"有一部分是時薪固定薪有一部分人還在領這個183的時薪那請問一下你有沒有可能造成有一些這個不平衡的心理狀態那如果不是領月薪的那麼時薪的這些人會不會因此腐朽而去這可能是一個很嚴重的後遺症本席提醒你要注意一下同時呢我今天提醒出來的這件事情你要把演你的計畫拿出來你怎麼穩定住這個183時薪的人然後這個月薪的部分然後逐年去補"},{"start":2870.134,"end":2885.988,"text":"再來我要求1600絕對不負使用我希望部裡面研擬把這預算提高那麼把這個1600的人數能夠儘速拉到至少啦至少你不能夠到7800你最少一半能夠來到三四千能不能再會合來做一個研議"},{"start":2887.229,"end":2912.116,"text":"是,跟委員報告,因為學生的助理人員是屬於相助的角色我們一方面在月薪制的專任人員的部分來分4年的部分增加到1600那對於時薪的部分也因為各種提供的那個申請障礙別的服務包含他的那個服務模式跟老師的收購結束以及抽離課程支出等等這些不完全一樣,所以大概沒辦法做一個挺統一的規定"},{"start":2914.096,"end":2923.92,"text":"市長我還是希望今天部長沒有來其實我也覺得這是這麼重要的議題那我希望你回去把這個講說我們今天的建議帶回去最後的10秒鐘我想過去我們有冷氣專案老舊廁所專案操場跑道專案為什麼有專案因為各縣市政府財政狀況不一現在本席正式要求你"},{"start":2935.805,"end":2954.514,"text":"希望教育部提出關於為特教學生．無障礙設施設備的專案．儘速把計畫提出來．教育部向行政院徵取專案補貼．讓特教的環境、設施．特教的孩子在學習上能更好．可以往這個方向做嗎?"},{"start":2955.234,"end":2972.143,"text":"跟委員報告一下那個無障礙設施的相關經費我們也配合去年特價法修正之後我們也都在做一個調整那同時針對所有盤點那個各縣市政府各學校的無障礙設施所需要的這些經費我們也會來跟行政院爭取公件的經費好 謝謝好 謝謝那接下來我們請登記第二號的侯孟楷委員"},{"start":2990.627,"end":3016.209,"text":"主席謝謝,麻煩請林藤腳部次長好,林次長,謝謝侯美媛好次長,今天討論到特教的部分本席認為非常的重要但是本席必須先給三個結論我們到目前為止對於特教整體的教育環境跟狀況我認為有三大不足安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠"},{"start":3017.35,"end":3039.889,"text":"安置不當、人力不足、待遇不夠所以我們今天要討論出怎麼樣能夠把這三個缺失能夠再一次加強首先安置不當的部分我想特教我們上個應該是兩三個禮拜前看到這個待課老師他在學校裡面在教室裡面被這個同學施暴"},{"start":3040.569,"end":3059.118,"text":"那後來這個戴克老師他直接就講他說他真的不清楚說班上有特教生校方也未告知班上有特教生所以他不了解特教生的需求證明了學校橫向連結的不足次長到目前為止在這樣的一個部分上有什麼改進跟"},{"start":3060.398,"end":3060.859,"text":"有要求嗎?"},{"start":3085.474,"end":3108.892,"text":"這個部門未來的部門我們會再要求主管機關跟學校那麼能夠是因為白紙黑字有說明了因為我們以前是說避免貼標籤避免標籤化所以說一個班裡面普特融合哪一個是特教生可能不希望同學去知道但是對於待課老師或是教育工作者來講他們應該是要了解說班上是確實有特教生的"},{"start":3109.955,"end":3114.281,"text":"目前我們大概有92%的是融合生92%是融合,所以有8%可能是特教92%的聲音障礙學生會進到我們一般學校的普通班"},{"start":3124.437,"end":3149.748,"text":"是,所以我現在只是確認是說這個問題怎麼解決未來是有要求所有學校各級學校老師、帶課老師都應該要明確告知說班上有特教生這個部分我們會請各主管機關那麼轉至各個學校應該讓包含的這個代理、帶課教師他接這個班級的時候找地方政府開會了嗎還是我們發函要求發函通知地方政府了"},{"start":3150.648,"end":3157.672,"text":"有發函,有發函,後來我們在那個發函的中央跟地方的那個聯繫匯報裡面會來做一個說明是發函了還是以後會說明明確一點好不好以後開會來做一個確定開會之後發函"},{"start":3167.196,"end":3167.356,"text":"三天內?"},{"start":3187.432,"end":3188.853,"text":"三天內三天內三天內指導性的公文來 第二個次長"},{"start":3216.756,"end":3245.408,"text":"本席講到人力不足我們看到有媒體報導講說特教老師人力不足的情況就變成是說代理的特教老師無特教證的教師比例逐年上升我想請教現在有多少個縣市代理特教老師有達三成以上因為之前媒體有報導"},{"start":3247.029,"end":3258.097,"text":"媒體報導講說我們現在代理特教老師的比例其實是越來越高的然後而且代理老師裡面又有很多比例其實是他也沒有特教證的媒體報導講說2022年統計10個縣市以上沒有特教證的教師達4成"},{"start":3265.745,"end":3287.458,"text":"報告委員,這個數據是不是今天之內給委員?為什麼?因為有些數據我們在我們的通報網上,它是在浮動的。如果用最新的數據,不要用我們縣市之前,也許是11一學年的,我們用最新的數據,今天下班前給您。但我特別提醒一下,目前的確有一兩個縣市,我們看到那個數據稍高一點。"},{"start":3290.64,"end":3310.068,"text":"好,所以這凸顯一個問題我們教育部也知道現在有所謂的代理特教教師比例是高的我們教育部也知道有代理教師其實他也有比例是沒有特教證的那就代表真的是人力不足好,那再拉回來我們現在又要有特教助理員"},{"start":3313.772,"end":3324.16,"text":"2、3個禮拜前的這個個案爆發之後部長來這邊宣誓特教助理人放心我們現在四年要有1600個一年要有400個好像把特教助理人當成是解方"},{"start":3325.134,"end":3354.085,"text":"我們想問特教助理員真的是解方嗎之前也有很多媒體報導講說特教助理員被公部門帶頭欠錢帶頭欠薪有竹市特教助理員欠薪4個月月薪其實只有2萬塊也有中市特教助理員薪資不到3萬塊但是一個人要照顧12人我們要問欠薪的這樣的一個狀況是個案還是同案"},{"start":3355.07,"end":3361.492,"text":"市長我們先不要馬上就推給各縣市我先請教我們現在全國的特教助理也有多少人現在"},{"start":3381.684,"end":3410.252,"text":"報告委員因為現在不是月薪制的專任所以我們要去爭取因為它那個是用終點式的這個是用終點式你還是可以知道說現在我們全國有推到數有多少人比如說早上我們請教某個縣市想要最新的數據他也要報一個比較新的數據給我一樣是不是這樣的一個數據因為我就隨便因為委員可能會請教我們那我就問一個縣市能不能夠馬上給我他會有困難的話我也知道"},{"start":3410.632,"end":3416.398,"text":"教育部身為中央主管機關,你們每半年、每三個月固定跟我們縣市開會的時候,難道這些不是應該是在我們的掌控的數據裡面嗎?這個會有,是不是那個數據我們待會也是可以檢驗"},{"start":3433.201,"end":3444.085,"text":"委員問的我們最近一次是用112學年結束的多少人112學年是7800人左右那這7800人左右我正想講就是7800人你告訴我這個數字那我就講如果說現在7800人都還沒有辦法說滿足現在既有的特教市場你跟我講是說4年再增加1600人也不到7800人的"},{"start":3456.61,"end":3477.446,"text":"五分之一委員 跟你報告你為什麼 憑什麼部長會覺得是說四年再增加一千六百人這就是解方跟委員報告 是這樣我們就報行政院的計畫跟縣市討論之後我們就重度以上的六類型的包含委員﹚發展遲緩﹚情障重度﹚或是智障重度等等"},{"start":3478.686,"end":3503.98,"text":"6類人員加起來1600餘名這1600餘名需要比較重的協助那我們這1600就是剛才講的1600餘名那是專任的現行用部分時數這個部分時數呢不夠因此呢這個部分時數我們也有增加因此在專案計畫內有兩個增加一個是1600名一個是部分時數我們也希望能夠多幫忙大概以上做補充"},{"start":3504.48,"end":3532.866,"text":"本席剛剛聽懂了就說這1600個你們希望用專任的等於一年加400個但你們的月薪會是多少錢還是用最低薪資3172531725725是那就討論到第三個部分了本席剛剛講待遇不夠有沒有去算過現在尤其是等下4月又要電價上漲萬物皆漲我有薪水不漲"},{"start":3534.148,"end":3551.395,"text":"3萬1 有一句話講得很好就是說給得起香蕉只能請得到猴子我覺得我們的特教助理員或是我們特教老師這一些第一線的特教人員都非常的專業也非常的用心也非常的辛苦"},{"start":3552.645,"end":3568.316,"text":"市長你覺得三萬一夠嗎?跟委員報告一下你剛剛講的說七千八百人是終點時薪然後我們剛剛也提到了是說有很多縣市提到說因為特教助理員其實重點在哪裡?為什麼縣市要欠薪?縣市也不想欠薪啊"},{"start":3569.156,"end":3590.984,"text":"因為縣市會我了解幾個縣市包括我自己的新北市都說這一筆經費還要跟教育部來報教育部這邊再給地方地方這邊再發下去往往中間的行政流程就有拖到所以是不是如果說真的這個是那麼重要的話是不是中央跟地方要討論一個更快速方便甚至中央直接撥款"},{"start":3592.557,"end":3598.907,"text":"不要再造成說中央要給地方、地方這邊行政作業流程之後再讓地方去給這些特教助理員"},{"start":3600.445,"end":3629.301,"text":"有沒有辦法更精簡這個給予的流程那還有就是說這個待遇到底夠不夠跟委員報告一下那個有關那個專任助理人員的部分我們從今年開始每年3月底之前會核定這個月薪資的這個助理人數然後呢7月份由各縣市政府去公開的徵聘然後呢新的開學的學院度的時候開始來做一個禁用那我們在這個薪資的撥用部分會採用癒合的方式"},{"start":3630.782,"end":3631.743,"text":"預核給地方政府"},{"start":3639.349,"end":3659.215,"text":"您所說的大概有兩次你講到就是重點了對不對您說的之前我們就是用癒合但我們通常會一定的時間比如說在年度在9月的時候或10月的時候如果它執行的不夠那個量我們會再補給他大概一直以來因為是有癒合的經驗所以未來也一直會用這種比較好的經驗讓這種現實無以為繼的情況絕對會減少或是沒有發生"},{"start":3662.336,"end":3688.665,"text":"所以本席這邊很誠摯的提醒既然我們要推動一個政策這個政策是良善的而且真的是要幫助到地方各縣市的然後特教的學生的癒合的部分寬鬆的量一定要給足尤其是剛剛講到說400名一年其實真的不多那還有這個待遇的部分我覺得次長這一定要我再一次"},{"start":3689.505,"end":3697.648,"text":"本席希望的是能夠真真正正的照顧到這一些特教助理員你如果說37000跟311000那能不能平均每一個人至少都有35000"},{"start":3718.354,"end":3747.233,"text":"我覺得這個才是比較實際的而不是讓大家是說哇這十幾你先熬嘛熬一下熬一下反正熬了十年熬了十幾年之後你就拿到三萬七了那個時候物價不知道飆漲到哪裡去了這一點次長真的帶回去能夠研究再研究需要預算立法院教育委員會這邊一定支持我們沒有辦法幫你加錢但是你們提出來只要用在合理的地方用在刀口上的地方我們一定支持謝謝"},{"start":3748.714,"end":3749.235,"text":"陳培宇委員"},{"start":3772.395,"end":3787.001,"text":"市長早安第一題這個事情趕快跟您請教因為這關係到即將退所的四所私立大學、明大大學、環球科技大學、大同技術學院跟東方設計大學這些學校裡面目前都有特教生"},{"start":3788.122,"end":3806.418,"text":"請問退場之後這些特教生何去何從目前教育部的安排跟相關計畫是不是有跟學生討論過學生的需求因為這裡面據我們所知有非常多的學生他們需要特殊的人力協助、交通協助、生活協助但是我們回到左邊我們投影片看到這邊"},{"start":3807.299,"end":3808,"text":"退場學校也會徵詢學生的分發意願"},{"start":3835.658,"end":3846.748,"text":"由本部辦理學生分花說明會．現場設置諮詢服務台．由分花學校提供宣導DM．系科課程、學校簡介等相關資料．提供學生諮詢服務．充分提供相關資訊"},{"start":3851.732,"end":3876.293,"text":"這個聽起來跟我們之前曾一個每次早午跟你討論一下可是他們現在的困境是這樣剛剛你講的確實是現行的法規都已經有的可是個別這個特殊學生他們的狀況是不是真的每一個原本的學校跟他們即將要去的新的學校是不是真的可以對接到因為明明我們之前就已經收到很多陳情是關於一般的學生就都已經不一定待得下去到新的學校更換這些特殊學生"},{"start":3876.953,"end":3894.597,"text":"剛剛相關的法規跟辦法我們相信教育部應該已經有所準備可是我們也相信有非常多的個案其實在這個法規底下是被漏掉的所以是不是可以直接拜託次長請你們的幕僚研究對於目前已經正在進行退場程序的這剛剛4所學校必須要積極的學術特教生的安置跟分發並且要確保每一個個案我說的是每一個個案相關新的校園生活協助人力還有無障礙的校園環境我們先就針對個案的部分再來"},{"start":3905.82,"end":3921.319,"text":"這些學生到新的學校去之後他們的就學跟適應情況務必要拜託教育部持續的追蹤那我們辦公室也會持續的關心這些學生的狀況最後一個其實是教育部手上一定有一個清單到底還有哪些學校即將步入這個所謂的退場"},{"start":3921.94,"end":3944.309,"text":"我覺得教育部要提早規劃更完整的透過前面這些個案的情況的爬梳把後續的要退場的學校裡面的身心障礙學生安置機制及早的做出準備如同剛剛次長您說的可能已經有相關辦法但是一定有很多漏洞是必須透過個案學生情況的回報把這個整個機制建立的更完整這個部分我們辦公室會再持續跟教育部討論好嗎"},{"start":3946.089,"end":3968.057,"text":"好 謝謝次長 謝謝那我們來看第二個問題目前有這個經費補助法規的問題是關於矯正學校的適應體育的部分怎麼說呢在特教法修完之後明定學校跟幼兒園要提供運動輔具還有適應體育服務那適應體育的錢從哪裡來呢是從體育署的推展學校適應體育生跟辦法不知道這個部分次長您清不清楚"},{"start":3969.938,"end":3989.593,"text":"我們體育署這邊也有推動各級學校的適應體育也有請台灣世大這邊成立適應體育的中心可是現在有一個困難來了跟次長報告次長可能不知道目前這個體育署的補助原則他說教育部主管的各級學校才可以來拿這個錢可是偏偏我們台灣有四所矯正學校"},{"start":3990.754,"end":4006.163,"text":"他們隸屬於法務部之前我就已經跟部長討論過在這四所矯正學校裡面其實有很多所謂的隱性特教學生他們在過往的求學經驗當中不管是原生家庭或者是他們學校老師可能沒有發現這些孩子有一些特教的特質在身上"},{"start":4007.396,"end":4029.094,"text":"導致於他後來進了矯正學校之後相關的支持系統其實是不夠的所以我們第一線跟矯正學校的校長跟老師們討論過他們在問可不可以把這件事情納入體育署的這個修法範圍裡面怎麼修其實真的沒有很難但是就是願不願意修正教育部體育署補助推動學校體育運動發展經費原則把所謂的法務部主管四所矯正學校放進來"},{"start":4030.055,"end":4055.346,"text":"那讓這四所矯正學校的校長跟老師．可以先提出相關的需求．為孩子設計相關的適應體育的服務好,跟委員報告一下．我們針對那個適應體育相關經費．是補助各縣市政府．我知道我知道,他們現在．好,那我跟市長報告．他們現在狀況確實就是去找各縣市地方政府申請．可是有些地方縣市政府會打回票說．因為你們不是教育部主管的學校"},{"start":4056.561,"end":4061.747,"text":"我聽到言議我覺得很棒有沒有機會三個月內我們把這個法規定出來修改完成至少在下個學期新開始的時候這些矯正學校的孩子他們有機會一樣可以透過縣市政府的申請然後跟體育署申請適應體育"},{"start":4076.042,"end":4102.617,"text":"是的,我們三個月內把相關法規研定修正研議修正嗎?我們是要積極進行修正,不要只有研議對不對?所以教育部願意肯認這些矯正學校的孩子也可以適用相關適應體育學生也是我們的孩子好,謝謝次長,這個事情非常非常重要在接下來特教助理員的薪資這個部分其實很多委員都提了那我們就幫忙做了計算我們以現在教育部給我們的資料來看目前全國特教學生助理人員有6500人"},{"start":4104.298,"end":4123.828,"text":"他們申請的時數有607萬小時如果按照你們給這個數字的算法平均每一個特教助理員他們的服務時數必須要每一個禮拜平均要23.3的小時你們之前說有集聚可以幫他往上加薪當時到禮拜二的座談會我們聽到這個集聚上去可能是800個小時會往上添加對不對"},{"start":4125.109,"end":4148.838,"text":"不管這個往上添加的狀況是什麼,我們看到這個困境我們來看一般的104商你去找手搖飲料店、早餐店這個薪水都高於特教助理員我用這個很殘酷的現實因為特教助理員他所必須擔負的工作責任非常非常重大那但是責任這麼重大的情況下卻只有給出這樣的薪水我們可不可以更合理的去調整這個事情喔"},{"start":4150.159,"end":4165.96,"text":"這個部分我們等一下一起來討論關於薪資的部分接下來看這些特教助理員他們要正式上工之前他們必須受的培訓課程我們來看一下總共這些如果我們以占別來看例如說情緒行為的部分只有三個小時癲癇學生照護三個小時"},{"start":4167.362,"end":4195.843,"text":"認識自閉式學生的特質也只有3個小時光是就占別來看我都要說每一個占別的學生我們只讓他花3個小時認識就夠了嗎而且基本上他們上網這些課之後他們進到現場服務其實也沒有足夠後續的增能培訓計畫讓這些特教助理員覺得他是有國家的支持讓他專業知識可以再成長他不是只是累積辛苦的工作時數所以教育部是不是應該要慎重的研議這些培訓課程如何可以再調整"},{"start":4196.724,"end":4222.426,"text":"還有後續他們正式上工就職之後的再職培訓這個部分．可不可以請次長回應一下好的,謝謝委員．那我要．好,然後委員．包含的那個有關特教助理員相關的課程．除了剛剛這些課程時數．那這些課程時數基本上因為．特教助理員基本上他是屬於相助的一個角色．是所以基本上還是學校的特教老師為主．"},{"start":4224.187,"end":4224.567,"text":"更完整規劃"},{"start":4239.321,"end":4265.931,"text":"可被我們希望教育部是進一步的三個月內研議例如說雖然您說的沒有錯他是特教老師的助理員但是我們不要忽略其實很多現場突發狀況其實助理員是需要積極認識的包含上一次那個情緒障礙的孩子他在教室裡面跟老師起衝突可是光是看影片很多人都誤會只是認為那個小孩就只是要打老師可是我們真的認識特教特職的孩子我們一看就知道那個孩子有情緒障礙那更何況後續更多專業的討論就出來了"},{"start":4267.412,"end":4287.11,"text":"所以我必須要說就算是一般的助理老師一般的待課老師都不見得真的知道更何況他覺得他只是去當助理員這個培訓課程我真心覺得真的非常非常的不積極再來最後一個提醒這些特效助理員他開始積極服務個案之前我們是不是應該積極提供個案的相關課程跟資訊確保助理員"},{"start":4287.831,"end":4312.324,"text":"具備足夠的知能協助個案當然保護個案的個別隱密資訊是重要的可是助理員要進去服務這個案之前他難道沒有權利知道更多關於這個案的資訊還有關於這個資訊背後他所需要累積的相關知識這個部分也請教育部研議到底要怎麼跟地方政府合作協助這些助理員進到第一線的現場去工作的時候他們是很清楚知道自己面對是什麼樣的個案然後他們需要什麼樣的知識可以嗎?"},{"start":4317.097,"end":4336.149,"text":"這個部分我們會在拜修教育部希望3個月內可以演繹最後一個普特融合的困境我想次長你一定知道很多了我們來看一下修正完之後其實我們發現最大的困境是來自普施跟普生怎麼說以我自己在修習這個教育學程的過程當中過往我是在大學裡面修"},{"start":4336.829,"end":4355.618,"text":"其實我在修課的時候學校並沒有規定我要修特殊教育也就是特殊教育在我的師培課程當中它只是選修假設跟我差不多年紀40幾歲現在還在學校現場服務的老師他們可能都沒有真的具備有特教之能更何況特教法修完之後要把普特融合的精神跟真正的作為"},{"start":4356.478,"end":4374.867,"text":"納入日常校園當中．次長你擔不擔心這些普生普師尤其是普師他們如何去應對在班上可能每一個班至少有一位的特生而且特生的情況又這麼的特殊跟不同那占比又這麼多還有非常多隱性的特效沒有被看見老師如何覺得他有被教育部支持"},{"start":4378.679,"end":4396.274,"text":"謝謝,我想在這個施養成過程當中大概就有三個學分的那個特教的這樣子的課程那我想這個部分的話未來如果這個老師進到職場之後那怎麼樣的普特融合以及針對特殊教育的部分再去做一個增額"},{"start":4397.314,"end":4401.277,"text":"這個部分我自己有建議我當然知道教育部現在有一些規劃我們當然也很難強制失陪課程要立刻的改變我們在想說可不可以有系統性的由教育部這邊來發起有系統性的教師增能計畫而不是只是讓老師隨性的選擇我要參加哪些教師研習的課程"},{"start":4414.645,"end":4430.736,"text":"假設過往老師沒有修習過相關特教學分那他現在依然在學校任教教育部要不要有一些比較強制的規定他們必須要每年多少時數然後其中在哪些課程這個我們交給教育部去跟地方的老師演繹跟地方教育局討論但是我必須要說要更加的積極"},{"start":4432.536,"end":4452.884,"text":"嚴領特殊教育教學指引．讓普師跟特師可以共同教學合作模式我們聽到非常多的特師他們常常在現場被普師抱怨說特生是你們特師的事情不是我們的事情我們只是讓小孩放在班上這就是回到我剛剛說的普師他對特生沒有認知所以他對特師的工作彼此的合作他完全也沒有概念"},{"start":4453.464,"end":4472.597,"text":"我們認為如果教育部沒有一套完整的教育教學指引其實很難讓普師跟特師在教育現場的合作是足夠積極可以撐起整個網支持我們的特教小孩所以這個部分是不是可以請教育部積極的研議是,謝謝委員這兩個這個建議那我想一方面國家署這邊大概也有針對這個"},{"start":4474.198,"end":4487.293,"text":"教師的課程調整跟差異化的教學．以及相關的個別化教學的一個徵能的部分．該委員建議是不是能夠有更系統化的徵能?是"},{"start":4490.315,"end":4516.423,"text":"這個部分,所以我們今天大概有四件事情都我們會往下繼續追蹤也拜託教育部積極的研議最後我就跟次長分享一個小小的故事我認識的一個很大的企業家他為了接納很多的特教學生進入他的工作場域他去設計他整個工作作業流程等到他整個設計完之後現場不是特教生的大人們告訴那個企業董事長說因為你這樣重新設計其實更加人性化讓不是特生"},{"start":4516.823,"end":4518.004,"text":"所以這些後續的事情我們會再持續的追蹤謝謝主席 謝謝四長"},{"start":4547.588,"end":4548.629,"text":"主席有請教育部林次長備詢"},{"start":4573.375,"end":4594.665,"text":"市長好依據《特殊教育法施行細則》第10條規定特教教師在每個學期初都應該與學生、學生家長、普通班導師共同擬定個別化的教育計畫以評估不同學生的能力、家庭狀況、所需服務評量方式以及轉嫌、輔導等向度"},{"start":4595.285,"end":4603.332,"text":"相關內容跟會議都必須在開學之前完成想請教一下次長您知道IEP現在是紙本作業還是數位作業嗎?"},{"start":4620.026,"end":4620.666,"text":"請問您知道這個流程嗎?"},{"start":4643.45,"end":4662.581,"text":"對於IEP的全職本作業加上數位化這樣一個不斷的反覆的轉換的過程來說我覺得在這個數位化科技進步的時代來講本席感到有點意外那更痛苦的是根據第一線特教老師所提供的資訊現行IEP的全職本加上"},{"start":4662.981,"end":4663.842,"text":"．3月18日及21日三天一次會議"},{"start":4687.645,"end":4705.978,"text":"以國中小特教生大概7萬9千人．高中職特教生2萬4千人．加起來大概有10萬人以上．每個人的IEP如果保守估計一份是10頁的話．用來推估一個學期．就有那麼多的老師要執行．100多萬次的上傳、掃描、後製、檢查．再上傳"},{"start":4707.679,"end":4726.165,"text":"這個我們可以看一下這是某個縣市的IP上傳頁面從畫面中也可以看得出來完成以後大家還要簽名加用印再上傳這過程真的是相當繁複編表表單還特別說明說一定要隱去嫌疑資料再上傳而且聽說這不是一個單一案例想請教一下次長"},{"start":4727.285,"end":4748.766,"text":"數位科技進步：AI發展更是一日千里．教育部有沒有討論以數位科技來協助．這麼多．反覆作業的IEP執行的可能性?謝謝委員．提醒IEP用科技化的部分來處理．我想國教署在7月底之前．會邀各縣市政府．有關這個部分來討論"},{"start":4750.97,"end":4772.986,"text":"太好了,真的非常感謝我想,真的希望這個教育部可以善用數位科技的機制來設法協助第一線老師們的工作效益那也不要太擔心這些所謂的隱私中國醫藥大學、富士科醫院就已經將人工智慧、數位化導入到整個醫療的體系當中讓醫務人員可以更快速地完成各項紀錄醫師可以,我相信老師也可以"},{"start":4773.866,"end":4789.724,"text":"我想在這個checkGP快速進步的時代．說不定在數位化的過程還可以導入AI化．讓老師們的IEP撰寫還可以更容易．其實網路上已經開始有特教老師分享相關的嘗試．所以顯然是有需求才會有老師進行嘗試．希望能夠從未來這個系統的建設當中．去符合老師們的需求．"},{"start":4794.79,"end":4815.997,"text":"同時呢這個從學制還有未來銜接勞政相關的這樣的一個不同主管機關來看我相信數位化也是一個比較長遠有效性的做法除了我們剛剛講的數位化之外也希望剛剛我們所提到的簽名用印的狀況也可以改善好不好我們那個最近我們一直在推電子簽張法那我們每一次出現我們都要拿這個板子出來"},{"start":4817.277,"end":4843.486,"text":"蘇衛部提供的26個部會裡面看起來呢第18呢就是我們教育部唯一一個排除電子簽章法適用的單位所以不知道能不能請主席邀請我們的這個國教署的這個彭署長可不可以一起出現那我想希望可以一起來擁抱電子簽章那這個我們是不是可以邀請次長跟署長跟我們一起歡呼這個大膽擁抱電子簽章可以嗎好不好好321"},{"start":4848.187,"end":4850.45,"text":"大膽擁抱電子簽章吧!"},{"start":4861.826,"end":4864.409,"text":"請教育部邀請相關專家、民間團體．將數位協作導入IEP並建立數位平臺．也希望能評估電子簽章是不是就大膽擁抱"},{"start":4882.449,"end":4897.846,"text":"那再來我們想要跟次長就教適應體育的部分想請教一下次長適應體育是不是適合所有人的運動那請教一下現行的適應體育在特教的部分有沒有包含水中的部分"},{"start":4898.895,"end":4917.335,"text":"跟委員報告一下,一般適應體育的部分的話基本上也是讓這個身心障礙學生的部分能夠個別做一個差異當然如果是包含的那個游泳的課程也是會做一些的,水上的課程也會包含在這上面那目前這個重症的、極重症的兒童家長團體其實有成形"},{"start":4919.937,"end":4948.043,"text":"這個肢體極度障礙的孩子其實這個非常多的這個學校就讀就算他有游泳池的狀態之下還必須自費到校園以外去參加水中的試運體育其實我們認為這個水中的試運運動其實對他們來講非常重要如果能夠在這個沒有地心引力的影響之下讓他們在水中藉由這個流動、包覆、溫度等等其實可以刺激他們的腦神經跟肌肉這個重新連結跟刺激"},{"start":4948.863,"end":4961.267,"text":"不知道能不能請市長責成體育署（上個月內邀請相關專家、民間團體、家長團體等等（嚴議訂定水中適應體育的指引（並且是極重症特效也可以適用的方案（"},{"start":4963.348,"end":4978.568,"text":"有關水中適應的相關教材研發,目前我們就有一些現成的,包含國小跟國中的一些相關適應的一個教案那委員這邊提到三個月邀請相關團體來研定水中適應的體育指引的部分,這個部分我們可以來配合辦理"},{"start":4979.471,"end":4998.975,"text":"好 太好了 非常感謝那我想次長接下來要和您討論教育多元化以及平權的問題最近我接到不少的家長陳情希望能夠來了解現行的國民教育法第6條第二項為協助前項實驗教育之發展主管機關應訂定相關補助規定"},{"start":5002.017,"end":5022.057,"text":"這個前項實驗教育包含學校形態和非學校形態的實驗教育．但是本法修正以後已經公布施行將近一年了相關的補助規定依然是指紋樓梯響不見人下來想請教一下次長相關的補助規定目前研議進度究竟如何預計補助哪些內容什麼時候可以提出"},{"start":5024.366,"end":5049.099,"text":"好 謝謝跟委員報告一下那針對這個免學雜費的部分公立學校的部分是包含了學校型態的實驗教育學校我現在說非學校型態的實驗教育對 非學校也是都有那委員提到了非學校型態的實驗教育的部分那這個學雜費是依照實際的需求是有學生資金來付但是沒有補助的但是你們已經有法條第6條這個項麻煩你們回去看齁"},{"start":5050.139,"end":5079.145,"text":"為協助前項實驗教育之發展這個實驗教育是包含學校跟非學校的形態謝謝委員這個在去年國家法在研修的時候有一些討論已經通過了喔對 有一些討論但沒有細則啊沒有施行啊那這個指向在研定的過程中我們不是去直接補助學生學費而是那補助了什麼第一我們可能會對特殊的學生一定要給他特殊的協助那個補助就會比較多但是整體的學校到底有沒有補助"},{"start":5079.765,"end":5081.546,"text":"國憲法第159條明確昭示國民受教育之機會一律平等"},{"start":5097.53,"end":5118.837,"text":"兒童權利公約也揭示了保障及促進兒童及少年權利的規定．在我國也是具有法律效力的．第28條當中就規定．第一約國確認兒童有接受教育的權利．會使此項權利於機會平等的基礎上逐步實現．第二國由因實現全面的免費義務．小學教育同時也要鼓勵發展．"},{"start":5119.617,"end":5147.967,"text":"不同形態之中等教育．包括普通教育、職業教育．使所有兒童能夠進入就讀．並且採取適當措施注入實行免費教育．以及對所有有需求者提供財務的協助我們真的是不希望讓孩子．因為本身家庭的經濟條件．而在更多元的教育選擇上面．包含實驗教育．包含各種類型的實驗教育．失去平等選擇的權利．補助學費的用意．我相信也是如此"},{"start":5148.607,"end":5175.487,"text":"所以也謝謝剛剛的允諾希望在6月底前能夠教育部這裡能夠持續的研議對於國中、國小階段的多元教育的選項也就是我們剛剛所提出包含的內容給予學費補助的原因以及補助的方式請教育部就相關規定研議以後提供給本席那也讓大家可以持續的來關注各種多元教育的一些方案以及平等教育的權利可以嗎?謝謝"},{"start":5176.408,"end":5176.809,"text":"請教育部次長"},{"start":5200.965,"end":5223.512,"text":"市長好前陣子發生一起社會的新聞案件就是學生打老師的個案那我想也跟我們今天的專報有所關係但其實我們如果回到長期的教育研究的累積國內外的研究都顯示身心障礙的學生被霸凌、被欺凌的比例是高於一般生"},{"start":5224.432,"end":5246.465,"text":"以2019年英國的調查顯示﹐83%﹐8成以上的障礙學生曾經有被欺負的經驗﹐那美國的研究也指出﹐美國的身障學生被欺凌的機會是一般生的1.5倍﹐我們自己台灣本土的研究﹐也顯示特殊生遭受霸凌的比例﹐比一般學生﹐"},{"start":5247.125,"end":5269.68,"text":"多了是6.6倍那光是這一年我們從新聞上面搜尋看到的特教生被霸凌的個案今年三月臺中高職就傳出一起個案這個特教的學生是被拉扯頭髮今年五月的時候我們監察院也來糾正新北市教育局也就是新北市有一所國中裡面這個是由老師來霸凌柔道隊中的特教生"},{"start":5276.044,"end":5302.395,"text":"今年的4月臺中也傳出有國小小6的特教生遭受到老師掐脖子、抓衣領、去撞牆壁這樣的個案事件發生我們今年4月在我們自己臺北市也有國小副幼裡面的特教班5歲的男童因為嬉鬧那被老師也是有暴力的行為來對待那我想每一期的個案我們都應該要來重視那"},{"start":5306.016,"end":5330.902,"text":"除了我們今年有看到發生很不幸的學生打老師的事件我們教育部應該要來協助老師學校在教育現場的專業但回到我們長期所看到的特教生遭遇到霸凌的這個常態我們教育部有沒有掌握相關客觀的數據那我們有沒有什麼樣的做法來協助解決這樣的現象"},{"start":5333.127,"end":5356.46,"text":"跟委員報告一下剛剛委員統計數據資料的部分是抽樣得到的數據我們這邊的部分大概也從校恩通報的一個案例的情形針對一般生跟特教生的部分去做一些的分析似乎兩者之間並沒有明顯差異的狀況我想這個部分也謝謝委員提供我們這個資料的部分我們會再持續做一個觀察"},{"start":5357.36,"end":5371.216,"text":"這個也就是市長今天我要跟您討論的因為就我們現在的霸凌防制準則當中我們對特教生我們有沒有另外額外的所訂定出的這個防制的標準以及相關的準則做法"},{"start":5372.317,"end":5386.063,"text":"目前在法制準則裡面是都是對所有的學生所以當然也包含一般生跟特教的學生是 我們是普遍性的一個準則嘛並沒有來特定的這個瞭解現場的狀況以高雄的狀況來說高雄市教育局因為剛好這個禮拜蘇小慧委員也召開了這個霸凌法制準則的公聽會"},{"start":5393.866,"end":5404.233,"text":"那各縣市的這個教育局來分享他們的做法高雄的做法是呢他們針對這個學校通報的這個霸凌案件裏面若是特教生的專案在這個調解申訴結束之後會來進行追蹤"},{"start":5409.636,"end":5409.996,"text":"全面抽樣列管．"},{"start":5429.973,"end":5440.036,"text":"他是系統性、長期性的有比較高比例的特教生遭霸凌的案件也許有這樣的狀況發生但以現在教育部我們手邊掌握的數據我們並沒有發現這樣的現象也許就是在我們處理過程當中被漏掉了所以是不是請教育部珍貴我們現在的霸凌防制準則"},{"start":5451.039,"end":5476.053,"text":"以及我們教育相學現場．有關於特教生．所遭受到霸凌的案件．我們來瞭解．然後看看能不能夠透過準則．來給予協助好不好好 謝謝我跟委員補充一下．剛剛提到了．如果是發生這種霸凌案件．如果是屬於特教生的話．那基本上在學校的調查．跟處置的委員會裡面．就會有特教的學者專家代表．那麼一起來參與．那後續"},{"start":5478.894,"end":5498.104,"text":"我認為要明確定定在準則當中讓我們在教學現場有一個明確的指引來去處理好不好好接下來是去年我們特教法修法在我們這個附帶決議當中有要求我們要來合理的寬列寬編年度的特教預算並且逐年增加以今年度113年度來說我們編列了152"},{"start":5502.066,"end":5520.227,"text":"的特教預算增加的比例是16%那我們現在應該已經在報編明年度的預算明年的特教預算我們有沒有持續依照附帶決議的要求逐年的增加目前我們有沒有一個初步編列預算的金額"},{"start":5520.708,"end":5543.902,"text":"市長跟委員報告一下目前每年的4月份還剛剛在籌編可能才剛剛在開始啦所以目前應該針對明年度會增加多少特交預算基本上應該還不是那麼明確啦不過我想這個部分會依照特殊教育法那個訂定新訂定是在這邊就要提醒教育部務必來依照我們去年在修法當中的附帶決議我們必須要來逐年增加因為這關係到了"},{"start":5546.025,"end":5557.883,"text":"對於特教老師和特教助理員的支持請在預算方面我們要確實來編列,可不可以做得到?會,我們會找,因為包含剛剛提到的特教的那個月薪制的專業人員每年會增加400個,到116人100"},{"start":5560.627,"end":5565.69,"text":"是,所以我們在預算上面﹖確實有所需要﹖也確實要予以支持我看我們的這五年的特殊教育的統計年報我們的特教老師的師資總量確實是有所提高的這也是符合我們現場的需求但是我看到了在這個身障類別的特教室代理教師的比例"},{"start":5583.78,"end":5598.693,"text":"也是持續在增加尤其是在110年度這一個年度他代理教師的比例突然增加了翻倍將近是兩倍那其中呢又有一半的這代理教師他是不具教師資格的我想請問教育部為什麼會有這樣子的現象我們在現場究竟發生了什麼樣的問題我們的師資是嚴重不足嗎"},{"start":5607.8,"end":5629.159,"text":"111年主要當時候大概有歷經了兩三年的疫情的關係所以當時候那兩三年裡面有些縣市大概就沒有辦教師的一個徵選所以在111年學年度以後開始徵聘教師所以一下子就是需求的教師量比較大所以可能會導致到聘教師之後需要代理教師會增加的問題"},{"start":5629.899,"end":5649.144,"text":"現在代理教室的比例有回復到正常了嗎?我們現在的比例是多少?目前的部分是20.7所以相較於110是有減少稍加的減少,但是我想這個次長"},{"start":5651.164,"end":5658.329,"text":"市長,你看一下這個數字有關我們深藏的教師採用代理教師這個比例除了整體的數字我認為仍然是偏高以外我們若以學前國小、國中、高中來看在學前的這個深藏的師資"},{"start":5681.284,"end":5698.757,"text":"明顯的是更加的不足的學前的這個代理教室的比例他甚至是超過了三成你在事務現場看其實有很多的這個反應在幼兒園裡面我們為了要適合實踐這個融合教育但是很多老師發現有班級經營的困難"},{"start":5699.718,"end":5699.818,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5714.835,"end":5716.515,"text":"市長,我們現在要怎麼樣去降低這個代理教室的比例?我們的做法是什麼?"},{"start":5740.341,"end":5767.16,"text":"跟委員報告一下除了這個有包含的那個教師的部分是教育部來補助的部分那這個部分基本上我們會還要求這種專題的部分來聘用這個教師那另外的話針對各縣市政府聘的這個教師代理教師的比例的部分我們會列入到一般性的教育補助款裡面來做一個考核的一個準據那會做一個評分評比的部分針對比例比較高的部分會加強來做一個督導"},{"start":5767.8,"end":5788.623,"text":"所以我們的補助是我們很重要的政策工具所以請這個預算要務必的來核實來編列好不好再來就是說剛剛也有好幾位委員所關心到就是我們的適應體育我們在適應體育教學的現場目前的有具備我們適應體育職能的教師"},{"start":5791.738,"end":5799.507,"text":"市長你認為目前的教師充足嗎?目前的各級學校具備適應體育專業﹑適能的體育教師打壓待板之時"},{"start":5800.814,"end":5806.916,"text":"來,你看一下我們各縣市教學現場適應體育教師的這個比例這個是國小的統計桃園市來說他的師生比是1比21那連江縣我們的離島的師生比是1比2其中呢就差了這個"},{"start":5829.724,"end":5829.784,"text":"請勿模仿"},{"start":5845.956,"end":5847.077,"text":"新竹市1比23 連江市1比3"},{"start":5875.996,"end":5890.63,"text":"沒有具有適應體育職能的教師能夠來協助教學所以我想我們除了看總體的數字我希望教育部可以來去了解各個縣市在教學現場我們現在適應體育教師的數量是否足夠"},{"start":5898.317,"end":5903.718,"text":"你一個是從體育老師來去增加培訓具有適應體育的職能一個是你特教的老師來去受相關的培訓那我想以現在我們這個老師施肢的來源來說倘若我們可以鼓勵來增加培訓的計畫以及數量的話我們應該是可以短期之內就可以來提升施育體育老師的施肢來源才對"},{"start":5925.322,"end":5945.636,"text":"所以這個部分教育部跟體育署是不是可以趕快來盤點一下我們各縣市教學現場現在目前適應體育老師的這個情況是跟委員報告一下目前那個體育老師跟特教老師具有適應體育這個教學能力資能的部分體育老師的部分是佔了25%點多特教老師是佔了24%點多"},{"start":5949.559,"end":5976.821,"text":"目前的部分的話,我們體育署也在111年也成立了適應體育的發展中心在臺灣巿大目前也跟了17個縣市在做一些的合作希望能夠來增加以及提供體制名教室的資能未來我們也會根據各縣市的體制名教室的人數的比例的部分我們真的比例比較偏低的還有沒有合作的縣市的部分我們會加強來做一個辦理"},{"start":5978.041,"end":5998.847,"text":"比例偏低的縣市我們要怎麼加強?我們會請體育適應發展中心積極發展在該縣市來辦理兩個月內完成各縣市的盤點並且告訴我們如何來懸殊各縣市加強可不可以做到?最後我要提醒這個次長是有關於"},{"start":6000.563,"end":6022.012,"text":"我們的這個大考中心．對於身障考試者的考試服務．我們的陳俊翰律師．他生前．對於這個考試的服務．如何讓身障者有一個平等的起跑點．跟機會跟大家一起學習．"},{"start":6023.172,"end":6051.041,"text":"提出了很多的建議事項尤其他提到說他自己一個人的經驗他到美國去參加律師考試的時候這個主辦單位瞭解他的情況便主動來安排例如口述筆代筆或把考試的時間延長甚至來安排他入住的旅館有身障專用的房間等等相關的服務都是他連講都不用講"},{"start":6053.358,"end":6078.208,"text":"考試主管機關單位．主動安排所以我希望．我也相信我們臺灣政府．是能夠提供我們所有的身障學生．有一個平等的機會．平等的起跑點這是我們教育部的大考中心．能夠一個月之內來去檢討．目前我們提供給身障者的考試服務"},{"start":6079.989,"end":6087.765,"text":"提出我們可以主動的來協助的服務有哪些改善的事項可不可以在一個月內來把這個事情做好"},{"start":6089.97,"end":6110.902,"text":"跟委員報告一下我想在各類考試的部分因為如果針對生長生他可以來提出希望目前我們要他來申請而且我們有特定的項目我們能不能全面去了解他們受到的限制還有哪些是我們可以改善而且我們可以主動提出服務的我們一個月內來盤點檢討好不好好 謝謝謝謝主席"},{"start":6122.329,"end":6122.449,"text":"郭婉嫻議員"},{"start":6133.676,"end":6135.798,"text":"教育部所屬的財團法人大概有700多個"},{"start":6152.432,"end":6154.794,"text":"凱凱的事件我相信這個是全台灣人的痛心"},{"start":6177.914,"end":6194.098,"text":"目前其實我們只看到就是這個二福聯盟這個單位他們只是暫停所謂的收出養的一個業務但是並沒有看到有任何的專案來做查辦甚至他們的捐款的帳號其實依舊還是在線上"},{"start":6198.54,"end":6198.66,"text":"主席"},{"start":6227.974,"end":6252.171,"text":"有做到嗎?跟委員報告一下我想針對有關民間財團法人的部分基本上我們是依照財團法人法的相關規定來做一個相關的監督所以包含每一年1月、5月、12月份都會要求各財團法人要送年度的工作計畫、年度的工作報告還有財務報表這些相關規定其實我也都知道"},{"start":6255.333,"end":6277.301,"text":"我們先回過頭來看一下兒童聯盟在80年12月17號他們成立的整個所有的宗旨是什麼以倡導兒童福利觀念推展兒童教育保障兒童權利促進兒童健全發展增進兒童福利為宗旨這是他們成立的一個宗旨也是教育部您是他們的主管機關所認定的對吧是的"},{"start":6279.782,"end":6304.375,"text":"這次的凱凱事件有沒有違反這個目的?有沒有違反?在兒童福利的部分、兒童權益的部分這次凱凱的事件不是只有這一次在5年前其實還有一個佩佩的事件但佩佩的死因到最後解決更是讓人覺得不捨而且是無聲無息是很卑微的"},{"start":6305.896,"end":6324.509,"text":"有沒有覺得他們其實兒福聯盟他們成立的目的違反了剛剛我所唸的這是教育部主管機關底下的裁斷法人您覺得有沒有違反以這個個案來提到確實這個兒童聯盟對於這個它中止的部分是有檢討的空間"},{"start":6325.009,"end":6344.31,"text":"我相信大家都在檢討衛福部的同時但是大家都忽略了教育部其實是兒福聯盟的主管機關之一而且是非常重要的主管機關我們再來看一下財團法人法的第29條第3條違反捐助章程所定定的一個目的"},{"start":6345.231,"end":6368.606,"text":"根據凱凱事件我剛剛所念的他們成立的目的好,回過頭來在所謂的懲處的部分我們做出了什麼樣的一個措施跟委員報告一下我想針對這一次的這個重大的社會案件的部分因為這裡面也涉及到這個額蒙所推動的這個包含收出養根保母的這個輸出"},{"start":6369.767,"end":6375.732,"text":"這也是他們主要的業務範圍之內因為主管機關是得與糾正甚至評鑑限期改善如果沒有限期改善其實是可以廢止的"},{"start":6397.791,"end":6422.61,"text":"是,我們會專案查跟衛福部會同專案查核之後一個月內可以嗎?一個月內可以承諾嗎?一個月內我們會會同去做一個專案的一個查核查核之後,按照實驗報告做一個專案查核包含他們的高層,包含他們的董事甚至也有在上個禮拜才說辭去董事,不知道事情經過的董事3月11日他才看新聞才知道的,要不要追責?"},{"start":6424.111,"end":6427.714,"text":"各級學校在心理健康問題平傳前幾天我們看到在桃園一所國中"},{"start":6442.384,"end":6462.237,"text":"一個國中女生因為長期被霸凌跳樓這個事情不是發生在國中不是只有發生在高中甚至連同我們在看到這則新聞的報導一所私立科大他上學期發現有40個人他有自傷親身的風險其中有10個人是真的有這樣子的一個行動但是"},{"start":6463.017,"end":6484.072,"text":"雖然結果我們還好有擋下來但是這個問題其實依舊在存在我們來看一下我們的失陪的部分因為我們一直在強調所謂的普特融合我們不希望普特融合當中其實還有所謂的情緒障礙這些所謂的隱性的特效生其實也處在普特融合的班級裡頭"},{"start":6485.213,"end":6485.593,"text":"教師培養教師培養"},{"start":6503.579,"end":6530.04,"text":"小學教師的師培中心我們看到特殊教育必修三堂課再來教育心理學必修是兩個學分另外在教育方法的一個課程等等我們再往下看到了國中到了高中其實包含我們剛剛所提到的校園暴力的事件或霸凌的事件甚至於所謂的"},{"start":6530.981,"end":6531.562,"text":"．3月18日及21日"},{"start":6550.945,"end":6552.346,"text":"該委員包括就誠如剛剛委員的一個說明目前在我們的那個"},{"start":6571.075,"end":6572.136,"text":"在新的課程基準上新增包含次專長"},{"start":6597.054,"end":6611.918,"text":"包含特教教師身心障礙主情緒及行為．還有包含幼兒師資特殊教育的一個次專長．同時也在去年8月份修正相關要點．也把融合教育納為優先補助的一個項目．我想這個部分我們會多協助．"},{"start":6616.52,"end":6640.234,"text":"因為這是第一線普科老師他們在班上可能會面對到的所謂的突發狀況的問題為了我們要維持保障所謂所有孩子他們的受教權其實這個部分其實還是必須要加入失陪的重點重點的部分好不好一方面是失陪啦二方面是這個教室進入到職場之後的在職進修的增能我想這個都會持續來做一個半"},{"start":6641.235,"end":6641.816,"text":"特交助理員的人力嚴重"},{"start":6657.047,"end":6670.741,"text":"當然我們知道其實我們也要先謝謝我們教育部其實有承諾了就是關於特教助理員還有包含所謂的部分工時的特教助理員他們的薪資會從調整的部分會從1400個小時下修到800小時"},{"start":6675.525,"end":6698.981,"text":"這個是好意但是我們再來看看如果一般的學生他們所謂的要申請所謂特教助理員的協助到底是因為因應學生的需求還是因為經費的一個判斷這個部分我們可能要來考慮清楚因為當然我們知道其實調薪是個美意那我相信其實也會慢慢的受惠"},{"start":6699.421,"end":6716.593,"text":"在特教助理員我們也承諾在4年當中會增加1600個人也就是說會在每年增加400個人回到剛剛特教助理員嚴重不足的那張表我們可以看得到包含我們以新北市來講部分工時1792個人"},{"start":6721.237,"end":6739.117,"text":"請問這400個人要怎麼分配到這麼多的縣市鎮?怎麼分配?夠嗎?跟委員報告一下我想那個特教助理員的部分的話因為這個我們也經過這個檢討的部分主要分成兩個部分一個是專政助理員的部分"},{"start":6745.302,"end":6763.997,"text":"主要是針對重度以上的身心障礙的學生跟幼兒的部分來提供這個全時的服務至於針對可能這種其他並不是屬於中度以下的這個部分會依照學生的個別的一個這樣子一個生前的部分那經過一個程序來做一個審核以後提供這個"},{"start":6764.637,"end":6764.857,"text":"主席"},{"start":6783.63,"end":6787.855,"text":"重度行為就是他們的行動比較不便的會優先來做協助的話會不會在今年整個總經費不便的一個狀況之下被分配到被協助的人被協助的孩子他們被分配到的協助會變得相對的減少尤其是情商的孩子"},{"start":6802.79,"end":6803.671,"text":"普科的老師在這個部分的失陪要加強"},{"start":6827.344,"end":6827.524,"text":"主席次長"},{"start":6859.662,"end":6880.114,"text":"各位好嗨 次長好我剛剛看到非常多委員提到我們師培的這個課程的問題我自己在師培擔任老師擔任超過20年我深有同感你不要說我們這個特殊教育現在變成選修科連老師過去我們要當這個不管是中等教育學生或是小學教育學生我說實在的那時候150個人三班都有一兩千個人來要來申請現在連150個連100個人"},{"start":6886.798,"end":6887.478,"text":"月薪制的教育"},{"start":6913.31,"end":6937.707,"text":"是請你講清楚我們現在連老師都沒有專任都還代理代課的怎麼可能助理員會有專任你的專任是只有月薪保障的所以這個名詞一定要先界定清楚好不好我剛一聽哇有點嚇到不知道您說的沒有專任這兩個字就是因為沒有專任這兩個字所以以至於要投入這樣工作的人其實是非常辛苦的我們剛已經有非常多人來我們快一點"},{"start":6938.968,"end":6965.974,"text":"已經非常多人一直提到說這到底夠不夠因為你看看這個數據嘛我們全國大概有2900多個學校5000多班你1600位即使你用你的名詞叫做專任其實還是非常的低的還是沒有辦法來符合這樣一個需求不僅是低薪次長還有一個非常重要的他們目前來說當這助理員他的基本的門檻是什麼次長你知道嗎"},{"start":6967.094,"end":6973.235,"text":"助理員的部分的話基本上第一個高中畢業了是高中畢業對不對還有呢相關的一個課程了課程36個小時你覺得這樣就夠了嗎如果是一個市長的如果一個市長的助理員他還要幫助協助協助做圖做很多的繪圖你覺得這樣有辦法來符合幫助一個市長孩子當做一個助理員嗎你覺得有辦法嗎"},{"start":6990.879,"end":7010.396,"text":"是,確實針對身心障礙類別的部分有12加1種不同的類別每一個他需要的那個服務是不太一樣的是,問題是你除了那個基本的那個收購時數之外當然包含之後的一個相關的資料是,但是次長你要知道你要有機會去看的話有很多時候而且要聘你這些助理員還不是我們特教老師的認為誰能夠當他的助手他是他的左右手是你的人士是在聘憑藉一個基本的學歷就可以進來所以很多人進來很多甚至找親友進來"},{"start":7018.903,"end":7047.577,"text":"所以說這個部分裡面有關助理員的標準我覺得次長你應該去了解一下還有次長你真的沒有掌握你們的狀況剛有很多委員問說現在目前特教老師到底多少我就馬上告訴你112年就有下面一個那個特教老師的合格率你會發現六都當中只有台南說實在的六都真的是資格比較完善資源比較多只有台南大概還沒有半只有七成其他都還算高但是其他的縣市你看到沒有"},{"start":7048.377,"end":7048.717,"text":"這就是一個現實嗎?次長,對不對?"},{"start":7066.87,"end":7067.851,"text":"你不覺得你的期待跟你們實際的做法跟我們的了解有相當的落差嗎?"},{"start":7094.954,"end":7121.969,"text":"發言的應該是一個發言特教教師的部門我們會師生比的部門會做一個調整提升然後呢那個特教助理人主要是在協助重度以上的這些身心障礙學生所以你要講清楚你讓我們大家期望值太高但是除了重度之外重度因為大家都看得到你現在最主要是有很多的孩子在普特融合當中很多人需要更多的協助但是你剛剛說那些是提供重度這就跟我們的"},{"start":7122.429,"end":7122.729,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7137.824,"end":7138.164,"text":"來我們回過前面那一張"},{"start":7167.509,"end":7183.428,"text":"你看你目前告訴我們說只要有個特教生你就可以每班減少1到3個人對不對應該是這樣但是你看現實狀況是什麼通常你要報教育部人數是在10月但是特教生升學的鑑定的安置時間在1月"},{"start":7184.87,"end":7187.873,"text":"這會變成什麼問題變成你先報了然後我1月才來給你安置說我要多少所以變成特教生實際上是變成外加的除非你一般生有人不到否則你這樣的話根本就是白講的你就是外加的因為你的時間點你有沒有發現"},{"start":7201.388,"end":7222.602,"text":"你有沒有發現時間點的這個你們所要跟教育部報的這個人數時間點發生這樣的一個落差所以這才是造成很多時候而且你如果學校的員額不變你不過是把這一班有特教生的人數變少然後把這些學生變到另外一個班級裡面因為你的員額不變所以到底學校對學校來說有特別好嗎你反而增加別人的問題啊"},{"start":7227.076,"end":7227.236,"text":"李慧琼教授"},{"start":7257.196,"end":7258.116,"text":"韓屬教育部委員會委員長"},{"start":7279.762,"end":7280.102,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":7310.763,"end":7334.255,"text":"市長跟委員報告一下我想這個部分國家屬大概在這個新修訂的相關規定裡面包含了那個戶外教育的部分的話基本上學校不能夠因為特教法那就擺在這個地方那要怎麼辦這個部分我們會我們公布了之後相關的部分會請各縣市政府請各個學校的部分檢視他們相關規定有沒有違反我們的相關規定"},{"start":7334.275,"end":7346.218,"text":"所以請可以把這個所謂施行的成效請你來告訴給本席一份報告好沒有除了這個部分裡面你如果再仔細去看的話你會發現再往下一張你會看到這個是我們很關心因為我們在大學裡面教書很清楚有一成的大專生長學生他們的休學跟退學的比率是非常高的那為什麼會造成狀況呢有非常多的一個狀況請問為什麼會造成這樣的現象次長有特別去了解一個狀況嗎"},{"start":7362.001,"end":7381.6,"text":"跟委員報告一下我想這個部分的話不僅是深藏學院學生當然一般的學生也會有這個修退學的情形那這個部分的話我們是有做了一些統計分析但確實在這個分析上面的部分應該可以更細緻的針對各個不同站別他們這個修退學的原因到底是什麼樣原因的部分那才有辦法去對證"},{"start":7382.841,"end":7394.186,"text":"我今天為什麽提出這樣一個問題自己本身就在學校的一個系統當中所以我覺得每一次我們這些委員會在那邊問到然後教育部馬上就提出一個然後呢就成爲我剛剛所提到的只要提到特殊教育你就把4年1600個人抬出來那1600個人裏面還說你再把分別別類的再去給他細看的話我說實在的這1600個人不只沒有辦法當成我們現在特教老師的左右手而且你剛剛特別提到"},{"start":7410.874,"end":7418.018,"text":"重度學生可能眼見可以看到你們還會專注有更多身心障礙的孩子不是外顯的那對於這些孩子來說只要一發生狀況的話普特老師特別是普通班老師是很難應付這些的顯然到目前為止我們還沒有看到一個很完整的一個措施光是連特教老師能夠補足他的名額都不用回到一個最根本的問題來是次長你應該同意現在"},{"start":7439.628,"end":7439.868,"text":"3月18日、20日及21日"},{"start":7461.415,"end":7485.049,"text":"這麼多好的人根本不願同事教職我覺得這是最根本教育部應該好好深切思考的沒有好的待遇然後呢你又不給人家所謂的一個永遠都是代理代課然後呢又不給人家一個全的很專任的更不要說在教育的現場當中有這麼多問題我們都沒有辦法好好幫這些老師解決我覺得這才是讓很多人裹足不前的不能讓教育工作者只有熱情"},{"start":7486.01,"end":7501.437,"text":"市長不能只有熱情熱情很必要基本門檻但是教育部應該給予更多的輔助協助跟支援是不是是謝謝柯委員的指教我想這個部分教育部會持續來做一個精進跟檢討謝謝好謝謝謝謝柯志峰委員謝謝市長"},{"start":7513.167,"end":7513.348,"text":"有請次長"},{"start":7533.964,"end":7558.064,"text":"市長好我想給您看一下這個圖我相信大家都非常清楚就是說我們學校的人學生人數是持續在減少但是我們的特生人數是持續在增加也就是說每一個班上基本上老師可能都有非常高的比例遇到了特殊生這些身心障礙的孩子尤其我們現在在講這個融合教育現在已經有九成的小孩都是在融合教育裡"},{"start":7558.624,"end":7576.165,"text":"而是因為去年這個教師團體也做一個調查就是說老師最需要的是什麼就剛剛前面有很多委員都提到就是需要特教老師或助理員那第二個部分他們需要有特教職能的研習不是一些廣泛性的職能是針對於特定章別的一個研習"},{"start":7578.942,"end":7604.881,"text":"那我知道根據特教法第18條跟23條都有提到都有提到要加強辦理普通班教師、教保服務人員還有特殊教育教師相關人員的培訓跟在職進修那我也知道說現在法律沒有明定他們一定要參與的時數但是這就會變成他可能有法規可是卻無法落實可是老師在現場要如何協助這些特教老師或是特教學生或者是一般的學生"},{"start":7605.942,"end":7628.645,"text":"所以就變成說我們有沒有什麼方法去找出那些沒有去進行研習的老師有沒有可能我的想法跟次長討論一下有沒有可能是用扣除補助款的方式來督導各縣市政府一定要要求轄內的老師要去做這些進修研習落實這個融合教育有沒有可能"},{"start":7632.786,"end":7648.072,"text":"特殊教育法修正後,融合教育是特殊教育一個非常重要的特色普特融合教育,老師如果能夠增進有關特教的知能﹐對特教學院有更深的了解﹐我相信對於推動特殊教育更有幫助"},{"start":7649.192,"end":7663.68,"text":"我們會跟各縣市一起來討論將來在一般性的教育補助款裡面對各縣市的有關特教老師的接受資能提升的情形列為補助的一個指標"},{"start":7664.6,"end":7684.023,"text":"好,那我相信,就是我也期許啦我們的教育部要持續去追蹤這個覆蓋率喔真是希望可以讓更多的老師在尤其我們現在特教老師我們有跟上但是我們一般老師已經在現場了已經在作戰了他一定要有這個能力去接觸孩子好不好那再來就是說關於校長"},{"start":7684.784,"end":7712.399,"text":"跟學務主任的部分有沒有規劃相關的研習呢?因為這是非常重要的一個部分如果他有這個概念就可以去帶動整個學校的老師一起去關心這個普特融合的部分那目前有相關的規劃嗎?是的,包含我們對於老師啦包含對於那個學校的行政人員的部分也都會辦理相關的特教的相關資能的這個研習啦所以校長的部分目前也是會有一些對,校長跟行政人員一定會尤其是辦理特教業務的相關人員"},{"start":7712.779,"end":7735.986,"text":"所以我們之後也會依照剛剛講的就是去追蹤他們的一個覆蓋率那這部分我們就會持續的來追蹤那再來就是說因為其實現場有非常多老師就是說我可能去申請了可是我拿不到足夠的時數可能教育局會有很多的理由啊去跟他們說這個要砍啊要怎麼去處理這樣子那我想知道說有沒有申訴的管道給這些老師呢"},{"start":7736.626,"end":7749.155,"text":"跟委員報告一下根據大概去特教法修正之前的有關那個申請那個特教助理員的這個時數的部分我記得申請的部分大概是670萬的小時的實際合給的部分是470多個小時的合給的比例大概78%當然這個是之前特教法修正之後"},{"start":7760.583,"end":7788.624,"text":"那麼我們也把那個除了原來已經有的年度的一個經費大概10億元未來部分我們會持續增加到這個10億元然後呢不僅是增加特教的教師人數也會增加那個月薪制的特教助理人當他們被刪除的時候有時薪制的部分就對於中度跟這個這個輕度的這個學生的部分他們申請的部分應該會比以往的部分那如果真的被刪除的時候他們有申訴的管道嗎"},{"start":7789.704,"end":7817.457,"text":"目前有嗎?這個部分目前因為它整個程序的部分由學校的特推會開會做個討論之後然後會把那個需求的時數的部分然後到那個我瞭解我瞭解流程我現在是說有這個機制裡面做一個處理對我先問您是說他們現在是到這個流程走嗎?但是他沒有辦法申訴嗎?當他現在被不合的時候呢?申訴的部分基本上我們再來檢討一下啦事實上如果他對這個部分的有些意見的話基本上他還是可以提行政上面的一些陳情跟處理對"},{"start":7818.517,"end":7836.137,"text":"我希望這部分也可以跟老師做宣導因為至少我自己在家長會很多老師就是自己默默就吃下來了就吞下來了但是這其實現場非常痛苦因為真的像有一個比較情緒激動的小孩他可能一個人就要花掉三個老師去顧他但是他們深情不知道時數好不好那再來就是說"},{"start":7838.039,"end":7862.554,"text":"因為剛剛就是非常多委員都有關心這個失陪生的部分因為我們失陪雖然我們在名額上合訂教生名額上是增加的但是我們其實是一直遭不滿那我想我就直接去問啦就是說不管是在因為我們其實已經現在有非常多的老師也都已經投入現場可是我們就是現場就是遠遠不足後面又沒有相關的失陪生可以補進來那在這個狀況之下就會造成剛剛講的就是說"},{"start":7864.235,"end":7864.415,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7883.709,"end":7908.34,"text":"跟委員報告一下目前確實陳委員提到了這幾年有關特教師資培育的招生率的部分是還有在成長的空間以目前來講特殊教育類科到111年度國育院的儲備教師我想不好意思次長我的問題我的次長是說我們現在就是沒有因為大家都非常關心就是現場已經"},{"start":7909.821,"end":7911.122,"text":"委員會持續核發師資培育獎學金,增加誘因,吸引學生就讀特教培育"},{"start":7931.933,"end":7940.678,"text":"各縣市政府若有施肢需求．亦可提報特教公會生的施肢．因為特教公會生．經過校檢之後．就可以擔任老師．從培育端來做培育市長,因為剛剛有提到．我們也可以學事後專班．或是雙主修．"},{"start":7954.885,"end":7956.587,"text":"教育部可以再回去好好地檢討這一塊我們怎麼樣是可以來補足這塊人力再來就是說這個特教其實"},{"start":7964.281,"end":7993.36,"text":"我們在實驗教育這幾年是蓬勃的發展跟107年比起來實驗教育的學生人數已經成長了61.75%但是我們實驗教育的特殊生卻是成長了153%也就是說我們在實驗教育裡面有非常多的特殊生因為我自己在現場我就會遇到校長就會說這個小孩子比較特殊啦他應該要去實驗教育也等於就是說實驗教育承接了非常多這樣子的孩子可是我們現在似乎沒有提供"},{"start":7994.421,"end":8021.015,"text":"相對的一些支持來給這些實驗教育他們得到的資源是非常非常少的那我想請問次長我們能不能專門匡列一筆經費來給實驗教育的特殊生使用不能因為他讀的是一般學校就把他排除在這個補助之外或者是說我們可以用什麼樣的方式來支持這些小孩呢因為他們真的就是在現場已經在那裡了"},{"start":8022.675,"end":8044.32,"text":"跟委員報告一下因為特殊教育法修正之後那個有關特殊教育服務的部分是集於實驗學校實驗教育裡面學校型態的實驗教育的這個學生這一個使用那剛剛提到的就是針對那個非學校型態實驗教育的這個學生的部分基本上我們會在6月底之前會找各縣市政府那麼再一起來開會做一個討論"},{"start":8046.16,"end":8071.409,"text":"不能夠補助非實驗教育的學生但是我們會針對這個機構就是非學校型態實驗的運作的相關經費的支持以及針對個別的學生如果經過政府相關處理的部分需要給予協助的部分我們會給予協助跟幫忙會朝這個方向跟各縣市政府再做一些溝通"},{"start":8071.949,"end":8072.269,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8088.872,"end":8117.494,"text":"跟委員報告 剛才所提現在因為他修過了之後也有國教法6條2向委員所引的當時的討論就希望完善一點所以我們開過了兩次的諮詢會議是要針對非學校型態裡面的所有的還是怎麼樣補助或是用措施性的協助這個當時有討論因此經過兩次專家會議之後在6月底前會確定現在比較明確的是對其中的特教的這個學生可能要有額外的"},{"start":8118.214,"end":8144.108,"text":"接近像那種費用式的補助那個是比較有共識但是如何形成更進一步的補助的做法那個可能要跟縣市在一起來會商那這個就在6月底的時候會完成是嗎所以我們是在113學年度的時候會上路嗎還是是113學年度就會上路那最後一件事情我想要跟次長一起做一個討論就是說現在有一個還蠻棘手的問題就是說在現場裡面在教育現場裡面有些小孩他可能是"},{"start":8145.47,"end":8160.447,"text":"他雖然有去做鑑定可是他的分數差一點點沒有到所以他就沒有辦法取得這個特教的資格那當這樣子的小孩同時在一個班上的時候可能兩三個那其實老師也因為他沒有那個資格也沒有辦法得到這些特教助理員的資源那這種狀況"},{"start":8164.591,"end":8183.726,"text":"其實有些孩子他也會有一些衝動控制的問題那這個就會造成學校裡面非常疲於本命那我不想要說我沒有辦法去討論一個怎麼樣子的方法去因應這些老來協助來因應支持這些老師這是我希望就是市長可以帶回去思考的部分因為這是現在的一個教學現場的問題那就是說"},{"start":8188.069,"end":8215.447,"text":"還有另外一個部分就是說小孩子其實應該是有一些狀況但是家長不同意去做鑑定的也就變成老師在現場疲於奔命這有沒有可能跟衛福部一起來合作怎麼樣去鼓勵家長去做這個鑑定因為其實讓家長有那個觀念是說我們不是要無名化貼標籤小孩我們是希望讓孩子可以得到更好的資源更適切的資源幫助他好好的成長好好的學習這部分是不是也可以跟衛福部做一些相關的討論"},{"start":8216.528,"end":8243.733,"text":"是,委員報告一下,針對疑似的特教生為進行鑑定的部分這個學校可以經過學校的特科會,經過一個程序然後報主管機關,那我們可以依照那個相關的法規規定的部分主管機關他是可以要求這個家長或者是那個監護人的部分必須來配合辦理這個鑑定的相關事宜好,那我想這邊還有詳細的細節的一些執行院上的問題我們再繼續討論好不好,謝謝謝謝主席"},{"start":8246.912,"end":8247.332,"text":"主委好,麻煩請次長"},{"start":8267.783,"end":8287.678,"text":"好 葉委好這樣齁 是我們之前在網路上有看到一個影片嘛是有一個學生是然後疑似就是說有一些情緒有問題後來有對老師吐口水那個學生是特教生嗎是 是屬於特教生情緒障礙的學生是喔 是 是特教生喔是 是特教生那他是因為他在正常班級所以是融合教育對吧"},{"start":8288.238,"end":8315.837,"text":"對,我們目前有92.1%的學生在融合教育是,我覺得我看到那個影片其實還蠻心痛的啦那我心痛不是說老師被吐口水會被打當然這也是大家會覺得很訝異的一個部分但是其實我更心痛是那個特效生同學本人啦因為你看那個影片是誰拍的?是同學拍的是班上同學在拍他然後後來整個事情一發不可收拾的時候最後也是同學去壓制他"},{"start":8317.017,"end":8336.812,"text":"同學反而回過頭來安慰老師說老師他就是這樣你先閉一下所以實際上為什麼他們班同學會有這樣的動作會錄影然後把影片上傳然後甚至於同學會壓制他實際上我感覺那個班上彼此之間有些同學已經對他產生一些仇視的行為"},{"start":8337.873,"end":8363.56,"text":"所以其實這個融合教育真的是我覺得要滾動式的檢討像你們的利益良善就是說希望特效生可以到一般的班級裡面去跟適應一般的班級可是實際上反而造成了班上同學對他的更大的歧視這其實是沒有達到融合教育的目的啦所以我不知道說在這個個案發生之後教育部有沒有針對這個事情去做檢討有沒有"},{"start":8365.653,"end":8390.183,"text":"是,跟委員報告一下,我想融合教育是目前教育的一個趨勢啦所以基本上也是希望讓我們一般的學生跟...不是不是,市長因為我的時間有限,不用盤古開天好不好你只要跟我講說那個個案發生之後有檢討嗎?對,包含了台北市跟我們教育部這邊也針對個案的部分大概都...那以上是發生那個事情的話,你們檢討的結論是什麼?"},{"start":8391.744,"end":8416.784,"text":"是報告委員這個個案可能在有關處理的教室層次的一些作為現在據我們了解學校也就這一次的個案還有我們自己蒐集到了以往的個案做一個有關處理的程序要寫一個指引這第一點什麼程序程序我們都問得很具體你們都回答得很空洞如果是這樣的話下次就不用來了嘛"},{"start":8417.564,"end":8418.285,"text":"第一點,在這個個案上已經增加了"},{"start":8443.422,"end":8468.921,"text":"學生助理員就是增加助理人員在11、3學年也會再多配給他一個班的建置學生助理員是做什麼就是增加讓這個學校的處理可以比較到位那委員大概講的建議哪一方面的處理比如說現在他這個學校是三位他有63個特教的學生那現在他學校有編制三位那11、3學年會再增加三位老師增加之後可以怎麼處理"},{"start":8471.123,"end":8482.513,"text":"提到包括鑑定或平日有沒有怎麼樣的照顧這些都在這一次的平日的照顧或是說有些事件的措施其實實際上你可以看到那個學生他在跟老師講話的時候他說我在這個班上就是有特權"},{"start":8496.823,"end":8524.69,"text":"那我被賦予了說什麼情況之下我可以怎麼樣這個是我們在影片上都看到嘛你覺得融合教育是應該要有特權的嗎融合教育應該是說他在這個班上跟所有的同學是一模一樣的嘛如果他在班上被特權對待就是跟人家不一樣啊那怎麼融合我跟你講我覺得我覺得你們的答案我不是很滿意啦我覺得這個事情發生已經那麼久了啦"},{"start":8526.116,"end":8543.664,"text":"連大家都一般的大家看出來的問題到現在為止沒有一個答案然後還在說我增加增加怎樣講不出個所以然出來不好意思 社長因為今天也沒有時間讓你去扯中扯西了因為我問的問題都很具體我也不希望說你們回答得很模糊所以是不是可以針對我剛剛講的問題你們針對這個部分給一個檢討報告出來好不好是"},{"start":8548.866,"end":8572.034,"text":"好 送到我們這個委員會來給大家一份詳細的講不要再講空泛的東西從我們增加幾個名額好不好因為比如說剛剛很多委員關心特教助理員短缺的問題我在這邊也是要提醒一下因為部長當時是說每年會增加400位特教助理員但是他開出來薪資是3.1萬到3.7萬月薪你覺得這樣子請得到助理員嗎"},{"start":8577.618,"end":8593.154,"text":"跟委員報告目前的部分的話因為特效助理員的專任的月資制的部分是兩萬九千多啦所以這個部分的話大概也我們把它採用新級制的部分從三萬一到三萬七三萬七我聽說三萬七請得到嗎現在物價飛漲了民進黨政府又要漲電價什麼都要漲連台鐵票價也要漲就薪水你開個三萬七你請得到人嗎"},{"start":8602.323,"end":8623.121,"text":"這個部分確實有按照他的那個部分還有新集制的部分去做一些的調整那因為在學校裡面不僅是特教助理人員還有其他的沒關係我今天問你請不請得到你說請得到嘛所以到時候我們來檢查嘛就是說到底這個請得到請不到另外一個問題是那這個編制上這個預算是中央支付還是地方支付"},{"start":8624.081,"end":8647.132,"text":"是我們中央會補助地方對 我們會增加整個會補助地方好 中央會補助地方好 您說的然後再來 這個助理員是專職還是部分工時因為有資料顯示說月薪制400人都是月薪制的對 都是月薪制另外還也會有實薪制的這個實薪制不包括在400個裡面嗎好 OK 再來"},{"start":8648.444,"end":8659.077,"text":"那根據我這邊看到一個資料顯示現在所有我們特教老師大概百分之接近40分40都是代理老師市長覺得這個數字合理嗎是"},{"start":8661.222,"end":8664.366,"text":"現在特教生正式編制就是15293位但是代理老師就佔了4000"},{"start":8680.702,"end":8703.119,"text":"18位等於是近4成的特教老師都是代理老師你覺得合理嗎目前我們的比例委員提供的資料是107千人度目前我們的數據資料在百分之20百分之20嘛百分之20這樣合理嗎百分之20因為包含各縣市也包含他們那個原額控管的相關的一些我跟你說為什麼代理老師會那麼多好不好這個是我們在網路上看到"},{"start":8704.039,"end":8726.297,"text":"在特教老師的抱怨我們秀一下也給次長看一下他們講說第一個他們要填非常多當然說每週的結束多還有非常耗時的文書工作比如說他們有很多表格要填寫一年有達到數十萬字以上光是填這個表格就會花很多時間然後再來就是他說他們光是處理這些表格這表格已經是學術界的設計了"},{"start":8728.39,"end":8755.287,"text":"非常偏向學術研究彷彿在寫學術論文多達數百頁的表格需耗費極大的心力所以如果老師要花那麼多時間在處理表格的話那他又有多少時間可以留給教學現場所以這個部分我覺得是教育部應該是要去了解一下老師真實的狀況否則的話為什麼會有那麼多代理老師對不對 這個我不知道教育部能不能夠正在這個事情做一些改進"},{"start":8756.294,"end":8757.234,"text":"剪輯剪輯剪輯"},{"start":8778.884,"end":8803.76,"text":"在我剛提的那個融合教育我不是說我反對融合教育我們也支持融合教育但融合教育如果理想跟現實有出現落差反而造成無法融合的情況下應該要滾動式的檢討針對特殊的個案我們要具體瞭解它發生的原因才有辦法改進嘛所以剛剛這兩點建議好不好這個再請教育部考慮一下好 謝謝葉委員我們朝這方面來努力謝謝委員 謝謝"},{"start":8809.721,"end":8827.248,"text":"好,謝謝兩位那接下來我們請林一錦委員在林一錦委員執行完畢之後我們先休息五分鐘,謝謝謝謝主席,有請林次長是,次長"},{"start":8833.495,"end":8847.462,"text":"針對目前台灣實施的融合教育我想有幾個問題要來跟次長請教那我想徵詢第一線的教師在教學現場所看到的困境首先就是處理事情"},{"start":8848.642,"end":8859.774,"text":"事件處理的SOP在特殊教育法裡面定義的身心障礙的學生樣太多了我想除了視覺、聽覺、語言的障礙還有腦性麻痺、自閉症還有情緒行為的障礙等等我們總共有13種的身心障礙別"},{"start":8869.685,"end":8879.752,"text":"所以當特殊生有不同障礙類別遇到狀況的時候老師如果沒有一個處理的SOP就只能看臨場的這個反應跟判斷那決定怎麼樣處置才會比較合適"},{"start":8884.995,"end":8907.956,"text":"所以我覺得為了保障師生的權益其實我們應該要訂定相關的特殊教育的學生情緒行為的處理準則讓第一線包含老師啊專任教師或帶課的老師可以有相關的知能那老師遇到這樣的狀況也不會無所適從我覺得這個是可以思考的"},{"start":8909.156,"end":8937.332,"text":"雖然現在不少的特教相關會有研習或相關的課程可是研習可能就像一種形式那也有教師反應說研習上課的內容其實很不符合現場的感覺而且都是空談理論那也沒有所謂的現場經驗所以我還是認為訂定全國性的這種特殊學生情緒行為的SOP處理的SOP跟特殊"},{"start":8938.232,"end":8961.011,"text":"跟特教的研習課程有沒有確實發揮功能我想這個是息息相關的所以是不是請次長說明訂立這樣的SOP 次長覺得怎麼樣是 謝謝林委員那我想針對這個班上的這個身心障礙的學生那一方面我們會加強教師的教學的智能還有班級經營的這個智能是必要的啦"},{"start":8962.032,"end":8984.973,"text":"針對如果是有這種身心障礙學生個案的情況發生的部分確實也應該要讓老師的部分能夠有一個標準的作業程序應對跟處理所以基本上我是蠻贊成剛剛委員的這個意見未來我們來檢視針對這個特教學生情緒處理老師有遇到這種狀況的部分他的標準作業程序是如何我們來原定提供給各個學校跟主管機關做一個參考"},{"start":8985.413,"end":9006.581,"text":"好那另外就是說當然很多的委員都提到我們特教助理員的心思偏低的問題喔像當然現在有所謂的月薪制當然也有這個時薪的嘛那在時薪的方面其實喔有的縣市看起來最高是澎湖200塊那其他縣市都是183那如果一週你算最高40小時喔"},{"start":9012.363,"end":9041.01,"text":"一個月是不到三萬塊所以他們又沒有年終又沒有寒暑假那所以我想這個我覺得是這樣而且我們另外學校跟政府申請所謂的全校特教生所需的這個特教助理人總時數我們如果沒有辦法提供這個足夠的時數那整間學校的特殊生只能去分享這個少量跟零散的時數那受教權"},{"start":9041.57,"end":9041.77,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9059.757,"end":9074.519,"text":"那之前教育部有承諾說就是剛剛也很多委員提到4年要增加1600名這個是月薪制的這個特教助理員那當然這是往好的方向走可是起薪僅有3萬出頭喔"},{"start":9076.281,"end":9076.942,"text":"請教育部列席"},{"start":9095.8,"end":9112.307,"text":"韓屬要到校才有所謂的這個起薪才投保這是這三個縣市喔那其餘的都沒有那我想我們是不是要思考說我們全國的特教助理員可不可以比較代課老師這樣代理老師這樣有全年期的聘期市長"},{"start":9113.84,"end":9121.582,"text":"特教助理員是屬於相助特教老師的性質從今年開始,4年會增加1,600位的目標在經會的編列部份一定會到位同時也會按照期程,83月份分配名額7月各縣市政府聘組名額希望4年1,600的月薪資"},{"start":9143.729,"end":9146.753,"text":"但要比照代理老師全年期的聘期"},{"start":9159.372,"end":9160.033,"text":"特效助理員接受36小時執行訓練,沒有津貼"},{"start":9175.785,"end":9176.165,"text":"特教助理員"},{"start":9194.434,"end":9222.508,"text":"是一個輔佐是一個臨時的人力可是我覺得他應該是一個專業的職業所以我們如果可以建立一個所謂人力資料庫就是把助理員的這個資料建檔然後需求方可以根據資料找到人力那助理員也有可能機會在不同的職場間流動所以針對這個特教助理員的這個薪資帶來提升職前訓練的這個津貼還有建立人力資料庫我看教育部是不是來往這個方向"},{"start":9223.448,"end":9223.488,"text":"主席"},{"start":9244.659,"end":9246.399,"text":"3月18日及21日三天一次會議3月18日及21日三天一次會議"},{"start":9267.284,"end":9286.715,"text":"施效退場條例的概念來保障退場准公幼學生的權益所以我想確認一下如果說那一間准公幼就審核沒有過那要退場那原本還在校的學生是不是依照原本准公幼的收費標準嗎市長 署長"},{"start":9290.4,"end":9316.269,"text":"謝謝委員稍微所提這個問題那部長已經有承諾在3月底以前會照顧學生的這個權益的這種方案是會端出來公佈好原則是依照退場條例原則會照這樣的一個方向來安置了部長講的比較是安置了是那這樣的一個情況如何在我們跟縣市政府還有六大團體來對話完之後再跟大家做個報告好在月底的時候謝謝"},{"start":9317.929,"end":9334.034,"text":"當然我們是絕對支持說如果說這個原方這邊有違法或者對待幼兒這個是屬實的話那當然不予續約可是現在是有一些幼教現場的人員很擔心說因為有些案件確實是個別教保員的個人行為"},{"start":9337.915,"end":9354.274,"text":"那如果因為這樣子造成全員被退場那當然影響會很大所以當然我們就來思考說那對於違法對待幼兒的這種案件的情節的輕重審查的標準在哪裡那怎麼判定這個案件的歸屬是屬於教保員個人還是原方"},{"start":9357.129,"end":9376.981,"text":"跟委員報告一下,可能這個法院幼教總會他們看到可能是2月份的這個版本那剛剛提到我們3月份之前會有一個比較明確的這樣的規範所以也會考慮到這個幼兒幼生的權益以及我們這個總共文化的一個推動那訂立一個比較合理的這樣子的一個退場機制處理"},{"start":9378.015,"end":9399.476,"text":"好,那另外還是要為這些辛苦的教保員請命因為教保員的薪資當然我們現在要增加兩千元當然有加薪當然非常好可是調整幅度我還是覺得不大夠不過我覺得有這個薪往前走是好事那現在總共用的教保員原本的薪資三萬元"},{"start":9402.859,"end":9425.73,"text":"今年度因為跟著軍公教調整4%．所以有增加1200元可是從准公幼開辦的上路2018期算基本工資已經調漲兩成四左右所以我們看看2018准公幼教保員當時的起薪是兩萬九千塊那如果調漲兩成四之後應該是三萬五千九百六十塊"},{"start":9427.772,"end":9449.001,"text":"這次的第三期即便准公幼教保員的薪資再增加兩千元那調整後的薪資也才三萬三千兩百元這個幅度還是來不及基本工資的調幅那當然這個議題是老議題那所以我是覺得這個是凸顯准公幼教保員薪資過低的問題"},{"start":9449.881,"end":9475.317,"text":"那因為他們薪資過低就會留不住人才那我們未來還要調整這個師生比1比12那所以我想找不到老師因為找不到老師會被退場這件事情也有可能發生所以想請教說教保人員的薪資調整兩千元的草案有沒有往上調的空間那薪資不足到底有沒有什麼解方或者說我們聽說過去的教保人員會被原方"},{"start":9476.258,"end":9476.718,"text":"新制是否能監督教保人員公開機制審查問題?"},{"start":9490.963,"end":9511.989,"text":"跟委員報告一下目前今年的部分教保委員的薪資的部分是調整了兩千多餘一千二是不是在調整他們提到的要到三萬五千六我想這個部分確實它涉及到層面包含了政府的經費還有更換橫批性的問題這個可能要再進一步的來通盤的考量"},{"start":9512.729,"end":9534.936,"text":"致於嚴格監督公教教保人員調薪的機制我想這個部分我們也都持續了政府的補助那當然必須符合我們的這個那個薪資的這個相關的一個規定那這個部分我們會跟地方政府那麼一起來做嚴格的監督謝謝好謝謝好謝謝主席謝謝次長好那我們現在先休息五分鐘謝謝"},{"start":9538.878,"end":9539.802,"text":"3月18日、20日及21日"},{"start":9876.377,"end":9876.877,"text":"羅廷維委員"},{"start":9898.735,"end":9927.62,"text":"市長好市長我想這個普特融合啊融合教育我想這就是讓這個特殊生跟我們在正常化的一個環境之下呢學習成長透過團體生活教學向長兩方呢不管是正常的學生還有我們特殊的孩子大家一起來努力讓互相包容學習那現場的一些案例我也要跟你報告因為我來自基層的很多老師自己的學校都會跟我們分享"},{"start":9928.22,"end":9948.713,"text":"有一個六年級的學生有中度的一個自閉狀況會不定時的發出聲音大叫也經常離開教室我想這是普特融合可能遇到也常態化的一個狀況那從一年級開始到五年級都有教助員隨班輔助所以跑出教室的時候老師就不會擔心可以繼續上課那現場呢"},{"start":9950.054,"end":9977.395,"text":"同學的一個狀況也比較容易安撫但這個已經是這個融合制度下最好的一個結果可是去年9月新學期的開始他的教助員被取消也就是教育局因經費不足為由不再補助這一個時薪此後他們班的上課情形只能用慘不忍睹來形容對不起以上這些都是現場第一線的老師跟我分享的"},{"start":9977.955,"end":10003.99,"text":"那授課教師遇到不穩定的時候要停下課來處理這一個狀況那當這個孩子跑出教室老師也沒辦法跟出去那就打電話請學校的學務處、輔導室幫忙找人這段時間我想老師到底要走出去還是不走出去那這段時間其實暗藏了很多危機你不知道這個孩子他會發生什麼樣的狀況"},{"start":10005.191,"end":10023.371,"text":"那我想由於情況一直失控該生家長只好自費請人當教助員難道我們的融合教育的意思就是讓特教機構的人才減輕負擔以後把問題丟給普通的教師又把教助員抽走再把問題丟給家長嗎我想"},{"start":10025.854,"end":10042.645,"text":"關於我這樣子描述現場的一個狀況用三言兩語把它簡單的解釋完但是可以想像說這個班上的同學和老師每天都在這一個隨時會爆發的狀況當中等待這樣子的一個時機點出現那我想"},{"start":10044.526,"end":10069.76,"text":"這已經算是比較溫和的一個案例了他只是亂跑亂叫而已那還有的會打罵同學打罵老師干擾上課的一個情形都有可能我想這就是我們一直在講的所以教助委員希望說4年增加1600位但是有這樣子的一個零星案件說這個費用不足那也一直期盼著費用趕緊到位這部分市長您有掌握這些狀況嗎"},{"start":10071.116,"end":10098.799,"text":"跟委員報告一下那剛剛剛才也提到就是說針對那個生技障礙學生申請這個特教助理員的這個實數的部分我們核准的比例大概78%是那所以雖然不是全部都能夠滿足生技障礙學生的需求但是以目前來講還沒有增加經費之前大概有將近八成的部分是可以得到這樣子的一個協助所以剛剛委員提到的這個臺中市的部分是這樣子的個案的部分的話可能我們要進一步瞭解啦"},{"start":10099.019,"end":10116.708,"text":"因為經費的部分我們是合撥給各縣市政府﹐由各縣市政府分配給各學校去做一個﹐以及身心障礙學生需要的部分做一個處理﹐所以是不是什麼樣的原因﹐中間去取消了這個特效助理員的這樣的補助﹐可能我們要個人再進行了解﹐我想當然地方的教育局也有責任﹐對"},{"start":10117.168,"end":10117.308,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":10132.145,"end":10132.325,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":10156.115,"end":10177.387,"text":"所以針對月薪制的專政助理員﹐中度以上的﹐還有針對時薪的﹐中度以下的提供時薪制的特效助理員的服務我相信在經會的依註﹐以及我們的重視之下﹐應該會比以前對性障礙學生照顧的更好"},{"start":10178.067,"end":10194.779,"text":"市長 署長也在旁邊我想在你們的一個政策之下這個未來的展望是可預期是往好的方向可是每分每秒都在流逝這一分這一秒可能狀況就發生了我還是覺得在這四年內補足這些名額之前"},{"start":10195.179,"end":10221.553,"text":"有所謂的短、中、長期在部署這四年想辦法把這些零星狀況甚至是我們遇到了這一次的臺北市發生的這個個案我們有沒有一個SOP我相信這一次臺北市的個案應該有討論到可能老師不太知道現場的狀況要不要交接我們在這一次的狀況當中有沒有去探討各校的SOP訂定把每一次的事件"},{"start":10222.133,"end":10222.974,"text":"．3月18日及21日"},{"start":10239.403,"end":10266.164,"text":"我們也希望能夠這個發生之後也能夠做的做一些檢討也能做得更精緻就以臺北市的這個個案的部分針對這種特教學生的情緒的處理的部分的話尤其包含這次個案裡面的老師是一個代理的教師代理教師他說他不太知情嗎起初有一些言語的衝突但後續老師是沒有跟他肢體上的衝突所以是我個人認為其實老師也跟我講"},{"start":10266.824,"end":10290.161,"text":"這一次的案例可以當作是教材讓更多普特融合的過程當中我們可以探討所以我希望每一次的危機每一次的事件能夠成為教材讓學校方作為一個SOP的訂定所以我希望我們這邊次長應該要來做一個案件的檢討之後告訴每一個學校去佈建這樣子的SOP可以嗎?"},{"start":10290.421,"end":10295.182,"text":"當然我也希望我們現在在增加教助員的一個情況當中我還是希望說善用流浪教師補足教育能力的一個缺口這是我們最期待的"},{"start":10316.389,"end":10339.776,"text":"流浪教師這件事情這一個名詞已經不是現在才聽到了長期大家都很關注這件事情那普特融合的情況之下能不能善用流浪教師讓他們有在這個機會來在我們的教師環境有機會來付出我想這個部分也希望您能夠對於這個方面有所了解有所一個態度是不是能夠往這個方向"},{"start":10340.376,"end":10369.547,"text":"是跟委員報告一下針對我們叫儲備教師目前具有特教類課的儲備教師目前還有比較活躍的大概還有3800人每一年我們平均合法教師證書大概是800張出任老師的部分大概近三年大概每一年平均大概是500人這個部分我們也會持續的針對專任教師的徵聘以及聘卒這個專任教師的部分會朝這個部分來督導跟縣市政府"},{"start":10370.147,"end":10391,"text":"來做一個妥善的處理我想這個也是為他們發聲也希望在這個融合教育的情況之下有更多更多的契機可以更加的融洽讓每一個家長都能夠安心我想因為我的稿子其實準備滿多議題要跟您做一個探討但是我想因為今天我們整體的時間有限"},{"start":10392.481,"end":10412.215,"text":"關於還有我們的這個公托的一個部分其實大家都很關注剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關注這些議題其實我自己本身三個孩子我對於公托、公幼這個部分我們都非常的關注我想利益良善第三期的草案有這樣子的一個規劃我們當然都希望重罰"},{"start":10412.995,"end":10440.834,"text":"但是呢要不要連帶法這個是可能民意有這些的傾向我們也希望能夠從嚴來看待但是我們畢竟還是要知道就剛剛署長有回應到所謂的如果真的連帶法造成了一個孩子整個需要安置就我目前看到的狀況實際在擔任議員的時候台中市有某一些被停止以後他要安置其實真的並不是非常的方便"},{"start":10441.474,"end":10462.12,"text":"因為光要找安置的新的公幼公托這個部分是非常難找尋那再來就要轉接到私托私幼那私托私幼又有一些就是距離上的問題你也知道就是我們如果能夠就近讓孩子能夠安置上課的話對於家長的這個上下班的途中是最方便的一個來做考量"},{"start":10462.64,"end":10489.005,"text":"所以我並不覺得安置這件事情很好做那安置是我們的大方向是我們的一定要做的可是我們還是希望一定要把整個配套都做好所以我非常非常的樂見剛剛你們這邊所說的就是要跟六大團體來做一個探討我們希望草案出來了但是一定要落實溝通再來做執行政策"},{"start":10489.725,"end":10490.286,"text":"這個部分您可以回答嗎?"},{"start":10503.793,"end":10519.879,"text":"是的,我想這個謝謝委員那我剛跟我們彭署長剛才也提到3月底之前針對有關這個包含了幼兒園退場以及這個新制的部分我們會對外來做一個公佈,過程當中我們也會跟相關團體來做好這個溝通的一個工作,謝謝你還有時間,還有機會還有機會,謝謝"},{"start":10533.578,"end":10534.88,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":10551.422,"end":10566.725,"text":"次長早安,我想今天我想問,因為剛剛很多人都有問了,我是要問一個小題,一個大題,那這個小題的部分,就是次長不曉得知不知道,我們其實至去年為軍工,今年開始為軍工調薪4%,可是呢,"},{"start":10570.906,"end":10597.425,"text":"剛剛大家都很關心的特教代理老師跟特教專案助理到現在都還沒有收到這個調薪的4%現在已經3月中了可是其他學校其他的專案助理卻都已經收到了我想我們說我們重視特教老師進一步問了國教署國教署回覆已經在千半鐘兩週後沒有消息"},{"start":10598.065,"end":10605.393,"text":"之前2月的時候問的時候陳伴同仁還回答說有收到公文就是有沒收到就沒有還沒辦法直接告訴他們有或沒有我知道這當然不是署長接電話可能要了解一下為什麼我們基層老師2月詢問國教署是這樣現在還在簽辦中"},{"start":10617.125,"end":10628.348,"text":"那是不是能夠競速今天可不可以告訴大家這個特教老師戴磊老師跟他的專案助理什麼時候能夠拿到這個4%的薪水呢是那個來我請彭處長次長閒不知道薪水是最重要的吧因為這屬於比較我們的業務然後我們來做個報告戴磊老師的部分就如去年他已經形成了一個機制那應該比較就委員知道吧那已經"},{"start":10646.834,"end":10650.035,"text":"所以教育委員所提到的兩種老師一個是代理一個是專案助理"},{"start":10672.884,"end":10673.084,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":10699.677,"end":10720.127,"text":"現在是3月嘛,3月底以前3月底前,署長以後這個事情不要發生了人家基層老師已經打到國教署反應,署長還不曉得這個狀況薪水是最重要的,我們尊重勞工權益該家的薪不應該讓他變成次等公民就其他的專案都領到了,同一個學校他沒有領到好不好"},{"start":10721.508,"end":10722.369,"text":"今天大家的關心就是特教法"},{"start":10738.482,"end":10757.362,"text":"特教法其實是我擔任召委的時候修的而且我當時還特別辦了公聽會那這邊就是我們一直在關注可是我想我們現在問到的就是一個落實的問題還有我們剛剛所講的人力的問題那這個部分剛剛大家都知道了現在班班特教生是常態高達96%"},{"start":10759.744,"end":10784.299,"text":"那是學校就是有特教生他在一般學校就讀高達89.9%特教生就是在所謂的普教融合那我想普教融合我從你們的報告中已經十幾年了可是呢一個好的方向進步的方向現場的支持度不夠的時候真的對雙方來講都是很痛苦的"},{"start":10785.1,"end":10800.057,"text":"這個方向是對的可是我們該做的事情以我來看就是兩大難題之前發生不幸的特教生攻擊老師的事情那校長都說我們在專業上沒辦法支撐這個特教生"},{"start":10801.919,"end":10817.315,"text":"這不是很悲哀嗎?看起來它不是個案是通案我想第一個現場支持的專業不足是問題普施特教只能待家常一個學期三小時的研習看起來是非常的不夠"},{"start":10818.857,"end":10843.794,"text":"特殊代理無證比例這麼的高剛剛的委員質詢都看到了最近我們開記者會宜蘭德就是幼教的部分剛剛也有委員講的比例又特別的高你現在看看苗栗的代理教師的比例31%最高的是什麼張化不是張化連江44%雲林縣我媽媽是雲林人看了真的非常難過雲林縣45%這是這部分"},{"start":10848.917,"end":10866.323,"text":"不足的我想各個數字我們今天就不花時間講了這是我覺得第一重大的問題第二重大的問題是現場人力資源不足剛剛講的是資格的問題現在人力也不足特教助理員薪水這麼低我們不就是讓他當一個戰時的工作嗎"},{"start":10867.103,"end":10875.054,"text":"這個工作不需要專業的職能嗎?人力不足,時數又東扣西扣的特教佳績低動漲32年"},{"start":10882.523,"end":10900.489,"text":"那這麼辛苦的工作特教老師說他做這樣的工作花的力氣是三倍的薪水就是說是一樣甚至就是說並沒有比較好那他為什麼要當特教老師呢他如果有普通老師的資格他就轉去啦那這麼兩個這是我整理的兩大問題"},{"start":10902.129,"end":10920.087,"text":"我今天不是要叫你回應這兩大問題我是要看看你們自己的回應教育部的特殊教育忠誠計劃很重要吧目前最重要的忠誠計劃你們總有那麼多學者、專家我看了一下你們的解方你們的七大解方這邊"},{"start":10924.209,"end":10934.251,"text":"①嚴寧修訂相關有效融合的特教法規②精緻鑒定安置與輔導基礎③普通跟特教師的施肢培育有待精進④終身學習⑤通用設計、無障礙環境⑤轉弦問題、特教生生涯⑤強化特教支持網絡、國際交流"},{"start":10947.774,"end":10970.647,"text":"這個七大當前問題居然沒有我們剛剛所講的最嚴重的就是說人力不足代理比例這麼的高然後加上他薪水不足所以你這個國際交流這當然很好經濟也很好通用設計非常好可是我們看到現場第一線最大的問題居然不是在這七大問題之間這怎麼回事"},{"start":10973.649,"end":10978.26,"text":"這個第二期忠誠計畫我們這麼期待的可是沒有回應現場的生屍還有家長看到的最嚴重的問題"},{"start":10983.622,"end":11011.093,"text":"剛才發言委員報告一下第二期的特殊教育的中程計畫是在我們特殊教育法修正之前所訂定的所以是舊的那是什麼時候訂的目前的部分的話因為特殊教育法修正之後因為包含了去年公布這個新法同時執法包括我們剛才談到的那個政治專政教師或者是那個助理特效助理等等這些的一些相關的配套措施"},{"start":11012.153,"end":11039.284,"text":"市長我問你,我們那個新法我擔任召委我們14年,是14年沒修嘛對不對?就是說什麼時候公告生效的新法?是去年的6月份去年6月,現在幾月了?去年6月跟現在之間多久了?因為主要是過了9個月我們還沒有修正這個中程計畫因為有些細節的部分必須在執法裡面定的出法市市長我可不可以請你,我想因為時間有限只剩2分鐘"},{"start":11040.885,"end":11055.846,"text":"這個沒有跟上我還在講特教在教育部的位階太低司長我為你爭取吳司長為你爭取重要度署長我知道你已經忙得焦頭爛額很多的議題特教值得更重要的關注"},{"start":11056.286,"end":11079.514,"text":"我們已經過了9個月了生效了這個第二期計畫還沒改還在修法前是不是立刻邀集第一線特教老師家長跟學生針對我們現在看到這麼多委員質詢的立刻延逸修正好嗎是可以嗎是我們可以來這個立即來邀集相關的這個單位一起來針對第二期中程計畫來做一個滾動調整修正"},{"start":11081.595,"end":11102.552,"text":"多久內可以給我一個本期報告你們修正一定要邀第一線的特教老師、相關團體、家長、學生看怎麼樣檢討修正修正好不好委員是不是這樣因為通常我們一個計畫的股東大概都以年度為單位不是啊你這個第二期預定是多久的第二期單位是多久"},{"start":11104.531,"end":11104.931,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":11123.86,"end":11128.862,"text":"剛剛講的單項如何降低特教代理教師比例你要有個規劃吧有個目標吧剛剛這麼高的比喻我剛剛聽次長講我會列入就是考核對不對給各縣市的經費我們之前處理代理教師的問題弄了三年我想這個事情我不希望是三年好嗎"},{"start":11145.807,"end":11161.476,"text":"是不是可以給我一個單項的報告降低特教代理教師比例從幼兒園到國教你的目標是什麼時候要降到多少比例是合理的幾年內解決好不好"},{"start":11163.317,"end":11165.498,"text":"上次宜蘭我開的公聘會就是代理教師 而且是第三招"},{"start":11178.663,"end":11178.903,"text":"一個月可以吧?還是兩個月?"},{"start":11200.788,"end":11205.813,"text":"本席宣布我們在第15位陳秀寶委員雜訊完畢之後我們就要處理我們今天的臨時提案那接下來我們請登記第13號的吳春城委員"},{"start":11244.482,"end":11256.591,"text":"每次看到教育部的我們官員來其實我覺得都很開心然後大家彼此事實上是都很想把事情做好我相信"},{"start":11257.659,"end":11284.597,"text":"但是我覺得我們現在的問題就像今天在談這個特殊教育其實最近不僅是這個幾乎每一個層面都在面臨崩潰狀態從社工都走上街頭了然後這個幼教、教保這個我們衛福部的薛部長說這個是社會安全網的系統性失靈"},{"start":11291.929,"end":11316.518,"text":"其實大家看一下這張照片這張照片是一個家庭的合照家庭是一體的你覺得誰是在裡面是一個核心核心者應該是家裡面的長輩長輩喔長輩坐在中間的位置看起來蠻適合的很溫馨對不對"},{"start":11317.694,"end":11346.285,"text":"但是呢我們的教育是破碎的我們的教育呢把每一個人隔離了都有了高齡者有終身教育有特殊教育有幼兒教育有各種的教育破碎化其實這就是問題的關鍵因為他們本來是議題回到家庭是議題但是呢他們本來可以互相協助互相支援互相成為協助互相學習的但是我們讓他變成孤單了"},{"start":11347.819,"end":11369.254,"text":"所以這個教育部一肩扛你是扛不住的現在整個的這個社會沒有政府是扛不住的我們整個的這個你看這個另外看一下這個是今天的頭版的調查這個數據"},{"start":11371.923,"end":11394.852,"text":"不曉得這個次長有沒有看到?你還沒看到?沒關係,我跟你報告這個裡面全世界的快樂指數的報告台灣在這裡面有一個特別的數據台灣60歲以上的人是全世界最不快樂的"},{"start":11396.773,"end":11421.061,"text":"這個我看這數據很驚訝台灣60歲以上的人是全世界這還是全世界比了但是台灣30歲以下的是全世界最快樂的我還沒有研究這個數據今天的頭版看到的數據是不是請教育部研究一下可不可以研究一下因為你們教育的是人嘛這各種年齡層這個原因在哪裡"},{"start":11423.741,"end":11450.743,"text":"剛才看到了中間那個位置高齡者、長輩是可以發揮一個家庭穩定的力量穩定核心的力量但是呢我們現在終身教育就是這個場景這個場景所以整個在崩潰狀態就晚年就休閒嘛沒有那個所以從這裡我們看到"},{"start":11452.065,"end":11479.18,"text":"中生教育是最值得投資的教育是嗎?市長你認同嗎?非常同意委員所以這個也就是我在上次跟部長提的他也認同我們要因為現在的高齡者很長壽動者都90幾歲60歲退休30年我們要讓他熱情地追求第三人生那上次呢我們一個臨時提案"},{"start":11480.32,"end":11503.734,"text":"部長也接受了 現在要規劃我也知道你們在啟動第三人生大學的計畫好像前天3月19日有開一個研討會但是研討會的結論好像出席的還是終身教育師一個師出來出席所以看起來他"},{"start":11507.14,"end":11526.378,"text":"發現這個問題很大高教師也沒有出來理這高教師覺得這件事情跟他無關然後呢這個還涉及到跨部會然後部長這麼有熱情想要推動這件事情結果我們還是回到體制裡面還是給一個小小的一個終身教育師想要扛這個責任我覺得你覺得樂觀嗎"},{"start":11528.42,"end":11556.384,"text":"跟委員報告一下那個同仁告訴我說當天3月19號的會議雖然是中村司主持但是是有邀請我們相關的司數包含了高教師、技師都有代表的參與有出席喔我沒有看到那個會議記錄但是呢這件事情就會繼續的推動因為看起來部長是重視的啦但是呢我們往往就是不了了之啦"},{"start":11557.444,"end":11559.825,"text":"我們中生教育部對中生教育有多麼的默示從108年"},{"start":11577.893,"end":11584.96,"text":"整個教育部本部的預算還不講外延的外延可以擴充到3000億我只講本部就1298億結果高齡教育師預算是1.9億佔0.14"},{"start":11592.745,"end":11602.191,"text":"然後逐年這樣子有在成長今年113年教育部有1706億但是高齡教育是3.4億占0.19現在的壯世代有55歲以上人有835萬人已經增加了從108人到現在增加125萬人"},{"start":11617.867,"end":11637.759,"text":"我們平均給每一個人分配的預算現在是40.7塊那有進步從以前的26.8增加了這樣大概買一顆茶葉蛋那6年來我們的進步就是對高齡者的對待就是給他一顆茶葉蛋"},{"start":11638.92,"end":11650.564,"text":"作為他一年的這個教育、終身教育的預算這就是我們在看待終身教育看整個高年化的教育部有多麼的末世這樣子的一個"},{"start":11654.537,"end":11674.947,"text":"另外,我們要求這一個我們的終身學習法裡面對於預算,終身學習的預算只有一句話應優於清費補助,就是一署一署拉,八平良心能夠補助,剩餘的錢來補助,沒有任何的規範"},{"start":11676.167,"end":11701.433,"text":"我們今天談特殊教育法我希望能夠比照特殊教育法特殊教育法裡面說這個特殊教育的預算在中央不得低於4.5%在地方不可以低於5%那我們剛才那個中正學習室是0.2%差別也夠大我們現在的特殊教育服務對象有多少人"},{"start":11702.664,"end":11703.645,"text":"韓國終身教育總體教育預算是多少?10%"},{"start":11718.351,"end":11737.566,"text":"10%我們是0.2%差20倍所以呢這一點真的要大大改進好不好所以最後兩個要求最後兩個要求就是沒有錢就不能辦事啦你編的那個一點的一顆茶一蛋的那個預算說你想要多努力有心那都騙人了啦"},{"start":11738.464,"end":11761.117,"text":"今年編的終身教育要大幅增加台灣已經邁向超高齡社會了整個完全沒看到整個完全不理會再來的話就是相關的法規包括第三人生納學剛才我一開始提到的家庭教育是個核心核心裡面可以互相的應該綜合的考量"},{"start":11761.557,"end":11763.478,"text":"希望教育部在這方面能夠努力"},{"start":11785.713,"end":11785.854,"text":"主席"},{"start":11802.754,"end":11803.594,"text":"接下來我們請王宏威委員"},{"start":11836.363,"end":11840.445,"text":"教育部次長、林次長、國教署署長、彭署長"},{"start":11851.844,"end":11854.507,"text":"公托退場問題"},{"start":11874.986,"end":11875.726,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11891.195,"end":11897.861,"text":"其實受懲罰的不是這些業者業者自己違規本來就應該受懲罰但是對這些家長而言可能對他們來講就是一個相當大的負擔我在這邊特別提到我們來看到就是桃園他們現在未雨綢繆"},{"start":11910.373,"end":11916.055,"text":"所以他們認為大概有超過10家業者應該是會被退場所以他們就已經開始在做相關的就是也讓這些家長能夠提早的準備那不過呢現在回到教育部呢教育部說還沒有啊我們要到3月底啊然後這個是8月才來簽約他是不是繼續留在準公托我覺得這樣的做法"},{"start":11936.34,"end":11936.48,"text":"主席"},{"start":11958.666,"end":11967.392,"text":"已經幾乎可以確定他已經是不合格的他已經是違規的他應該退場我覺得我們要有一個斷然的機制你問我我覺得我們作為民意代表非常有可能是來自於可能一些家長的陳情說哎呀那這個學費不要變得那麼高所以呢是不是可以放鬆一點再給他們一次機會"},{"start":11985.524,"end":11988.845,"text":"但是我覺得如果按照規定該退場而不退場的話他懲罰誰懲罰所有在守規矩對不對戰戰兢兢符合你相關規定的這些業者如果今年可以到時候這些違規的業者"},{"start":12003.55,"end":12030.398,"text":"因為幾乎的就是我說難聽一點是把家長當肉票嘛因為家長很害怕他變成就是他從準公托退場之後那我要付出更高的學費那可能各地方政府啊還有教育部啊都會有很多人來陳情如果這一次沒有辦法能夠落實你們相關的規定的話我可以告訴你啊越來越多業者都不要遵守規定啊他幹嘛遵守規定呢"},{"start":12033.379,"end":12042.423,"text":"是不是所以市長跟署長我的意見說實在我這個不是主流意見啊搞不好我也會得罪家長可是我覺得該說的話就要說"},{"start":12045.343,"end":12064.447,"text":"這個規定該怎麼做就怎麼做你們不要變成鴕鳥還在偷偷拉什麼三月底啊我們慢慢來弄啊反而家長沒有辦法因應而且我覺得根本就不應該給這些一再違規的業者再給他機會那人家那個合乎規定的業者你什麼你頒獎金給他嗎你頒獎狀給他嗎"},{"start":12067.148,"end":12094.346,"text":"所以我希望教育部在這個部分第一,你們要守住你們的立場否則的話這個規定以後會形同巨文沒有人要再遵守了嘛大家都一起來擺爛啊反正大家都很容易擺爛啊第二,你們在這個過程裡面在落實執行之後好,你們確定之後一定要給我們地方政府給我們的家長給他足夠的因應時間"},{"start":12098.131,"end":12106.189,"text":"給他足夠的因應時間否則的話對家長來講是真的不是懲罰業者是懲罰家長可不可以"},{"start":12107.621,"end":12129.96,"text":"是的,謝謝王委員我想針對有關那個准公共化的幼兒園因為面臨到這個新的簽約約定那我們在3月底之前也會同各縣市政府把這個退場的相關條件會來做一個明確的公佈那也會不是條件公佈,你們條件早就公佈業者啊,你現在跟我講條件還要拖什麼時間呢"},{"start":12132.742,"end":12156.013,"text":"你們要把很明確哪些業者就應該是讓他退場然後讓大家都知道地方政府也好執行然後讓這些家長也知道否則家長你就算是我們就是再給他一次機會但是我覺得如果他們真的違規不應該再用準公托而且準公托是用我們納稅人的錢你們用了將近300億對不對違規的人本來就應該受到懲罰是不是"},{"start":12160.875,"end":12161.056,"text":"陳秀寶委員"},{"start":12184.422,"end":12211.04,"text":"陳委員早日前傳出特教生在課堂毆打老師這個事件發生之後呢﹖讓大家都更關心融合式教育的相關的人力以及這個配套的措施我們台灣從1997年修正特殊教育法開始推融合教育就是我們希望讓特殊生跟其他學生在一起學習成長然後融入學校並為未來他如果進入社會可以做先行的準備"},{"start":12211.9,"end":12238.28,"text":"但我們融合教育推動了27將近30年來有些不夠完善的地方還是需要再改進根據統計的這個資料顯示臺灣有超過12萬的特殊生有近九成都在普通班就讀那顯示融合教育的相關的配套措施其實格外的重要在融合教育的教育現場導師或教師他同時要兼顧就是有特殊生跟其他學生的教學需求"},{"start":12238.94,"end":12243.283,"text":"也需要花費更多的時間和精力來帶領班級因為他希望說每個孩子能夠在學習上在教導上都能夠得到照顧的話他必須要付出更多的這些時間跟精力無論是課程的進度或者是觀察學生的互動的這個狀況相當也考驗教師的能力教師團體也指出說融合教育的初衷是好的"},{"start":12262.335,"end":12264.458,"text":"但多數教師沒有受過專業特教的培訓．可能很難同時兼顧所有學生教育部在事件之後回應說．有安置身心障礙學生的班警．校方認為"},{"start":12279.499,"end":12297.246,"text":"需要減少班級人數可以報請主管機關提起建服會來評估之後減少班級裡面的人數每班安置特殊生一人就可以減少班級的人數一到三人如果說特殊生比較多的學校會來專案的政治教授或是相關人裡請教次長"},{"start":12300.307,"end":12316.104,"text":"教育部在這個事件發生後除了降低班級人數之外有沒有檢討相關配套措施的這些檢討這個機制如果比如說你們增加教師特教相關這個職能課程你們有沒有去研議這個部分"},{"start":12316.684,"end":12340.063,"text":"是,發言剛剛委員提到的,發言那個徵制這個特教的這個教師還有發言特教助理員,發言月薪制的以及那個終點實施制的這樣子的一個發言的經費跟人力的相關的增加發言那個月薪制的部分的話,從今年開始每一年會增加400位,4年增加1600位"},{"start":12341.144,"end":12365.951,"text":"這個部分是你們預估從113學年度開始會增加特教助理員400從累計到116你們會增加到1600人那也就是說教育部本來評估這個人力的配置就知道有落差那好在你人還沒有補齊之前還沒有補到1600人之前那你們針對這樣子的教育現場你們有什麼配套的措施來協助"},{"start":12366.516,"end":12393.088,"text":"跟委員報告一樣目前的部分的話就是滿足這個特教學生他們的這個特教助理員的時數的部分目前是78%就是申請的跟我們核准的部分佔78%那我未來的部分就透過包含重度以上的這個那個身心障礙學生有這個月薪制的這樣子的一個助理員來做一個協助其他還是有時薪的這個部分的一個一個助理員"},{"start":12394.388,"end":12421.085,"text":"這個部份經費也會在持續增加所以未來對於身心障礙學生的照顧的部份反映的這個特教助理員的這個時數的部份應該會比以前會更為這個周延市長本席希望說教育部你們應該挺聽教育現場的聲音讓你們盡快的來研議除了說你們提升人力的配置之外是不是剛才本席所提到的就是特教相關的智能課程有這樣的課程可以來培訓教師"},{"start":12423.547,"end":12426.23,"text":"在去年5月的時候,我們14年沒有修正的特殊教育法進行全盤修正。那裡面的修正內容包括特殊會委員的名單以及會議紀錄要上網公開。"},{"start":12447.491,"end":12470.606,"text":"讓資訊可以更透明．也增訂了建府會委員．要增加特教家長團體的代表．以及衛生機關主管機關代表．也增訂了校內外實習．不得有歧視對待的規定．特教老師的心平工作．也可以拙減基本教學的時數．並簡化流程．種種我們其實已經有．把各方的建議盡量納入去修正．"},{"start":12472.707,"end":12499.133,"text":"雖然我們很認真地去對待這個修法案的這個期間我們廣大各方的意見但是一定還有遺漏的我們沒有完善的部分在這個禮拜二本席跟陳培雲委員、岳勤委員、范雲委員及郭育群委員共同召開了特殊教育座談會那會議中其實非常的踴躍有各種各團體都提出他們相關的訴求例如降低特教師生比"},{"start":12499.753,"end":12514.93,"text":"特教生的交通車．還有特教助理員的待遇．新評專職化．以及特教老師代理偏高的問題．以及特教生的就業問題那當天我們教育部的林明玉政務次長．也代表教育部來出席"},{"start":12515.811,"end":12522.296,"text":"教育委員會的各位委員都非常的關心特殊教育的辦理的狀況那本席希望說教育部你們聽到了各團體所表述的這些訴求你們能夠很認真的去看待他們提出的這些相關的這些需要協助的地方那你們也認真的去研議"},{"start":12535.126,"end":12535.666,"text":"在去年6月份特教法"},{"start":12551.631,"end":12570.86,"text":"修正通過之後．也包含了委員在當時修法的一些相關的．很多的這個建議的部分．我們都納到這個．35個執法裡面．那麼來做一個徵定．以及配合相關的計畫來做一個辦理．所以包含剛剛提到的．降低那個特教的施生比的部分．"},{"start":12571.3,"end":12571.4,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12588.667,"end":12589.128,"text":"這也是本期之前有關心過的議題"},{"start":12610.191,"end":12637.448,"text":"最近也有傳出有某間私校董事會．宣布他們在113年起．會依私立學校法來停辦．並且將報請教育部這邊的合訂．然而呢．這個學校113年度．仍舊有教育部合訂的330個招生名額．這個情況跟去年本習慣性過的．中部某大學一樣．學生可能在入局之後．馬上又要被安置到其他的學校．次長"},{"start":12638.248,"end":12656.224,"text":"本期知情有要求說在學測的個人申請招生檢上面要警示學生即將停招的大學院院校要列出來那請問在計職體系的學校的招生檢章上面會不會比照辦理來提醒學生有哪些學校即將停招"},{"start":12657.465,"end":12686.277,"text":"跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員的這個訊息的部分是那個大漢這個技術學院他是在3月11日函請本部同意在他停辦計劃核定前他暫緩辦理113學年度的這個招生所以他是暫緩今年度的一個招生那這個部分的話目前我們其實是應該在審核當中然後後續的部分的話也會列到包含了我們的招生這個系統上面對外去做一個公告跟做一個處理"},{"start":12687.157,"end":12710.708,"text":"對,因為他已經做出了他董事會已經做出了要暫緩招生、暫停招生的這個決定了嘛那所以我們教育部合給他的這個300多個名額我們也要儘快去處理喔所以這邊本席希望說教育部應該檢討相關的招生的合訂流程如果學校他已經傳出要停招你們應該主動積極的去跟學校溝通已經合訂的這些招生名額該如何處理"},{"start":12711.428,"end":12733.11,"text":"你們現在已經有啟動這個機制嗎?已經去處理這個名額的部分了嗎?是,這個部分的基本上我們都會那個核定名額的部分的話會檢視學校的招生管道的公告招生的訊息然後避免影響考生的權益這個部分我們會請法人請學校的部門依照這個規定來辦理"},{"start":12734.611,"end":12745.556,"text":"請學校辦理但是你們教育部有沒有主動的去介入去協調這些這些名額該如何處理這些學生我們以後可能會怎麼處理跟委員說明目前的話我們會積極在跟法人來協調學校來針對已經核定的這些名額做後續的一個處理所以還沒你們知道這個訊息之後你們還沒有去啟動這個機制還沒有去啟動這個主動的這個協助的這個方案還沒有"},{"start":12763.844,"end":12776.76,"text":"對目前是請學校檢視他已經對外公告的一個檢章那法人的部分也已經喊給教育部說他們希望在停辦計畫之前先停止他的這個招生作業那我們也已經回函給學校請法人來協調學校來進行"},{"start":12779.082,"end":12799.92,"text":"這個部分真的要請教育部你們更積極一點不能每次都是學校他入局之後又馬上停辦那要轉由教育部這邊來安置這些學生這樣的流程這樣子不但造成我們行政資源的浪費也嚴重的影響學生的權益這個部分是不是教育部你們要有一點這樣的警覺如果說有學校傳出這樣的狀況你們要馬上可以主動的去協助來處理名額的問題還有招生檢張這個警示的問題"},{"start":12806.926,"end":12806.946,"text":"謝謝陳委員"},{"start":12831.937,"end":12840.586,"text":"好 我們現在報告先處理臨時提案今天由委員提出的臨時提案共計8案來 我們請宣讀"},{"start":12842.076,"end":12865.482,"text":"第2 基層特教老師陳情指出國家屬與專案形式增補的特教代理老師與專案助理人員只為跟進今年軍公教的統一薪資條幅10%教育部運營技術發函與各校明定特教相關專案人力薪資待遇跟進軍公教薪資條幅以為特教專業人員權益提案人范雲"},{"start":12868.203,"end":12884.742,"text":"吳佩奕、陳培宇、郭益晴、林倩琦、第二案據統計有96%的特教生就讀於一般學校其中更有89.9%是以集中式特教班之外的方式安置教育部應邀請基層特教老師與相關團體諮詢討論"},{"start":12888.506,"end":12909.875,"text":"檢討前述計劃．提出具體增補人力與資源之計劃．讓第一線特教老師獲得足夠的支援．並讓特教生獲得良好照顧與學習．提案人范雲、吳佩玉、郭益晴、林倩琦．3、有鑑於教育部基於教育平權理念．公私立高中時全面免學費．並將家庭教育"},{"start":12910.835,"end":12926.163,"text":"家庭年所的148萬以上之學生納入學費補助對象為現行部分國中職生高中之私立學校學生受限於﹐高級中等教育法及相關法律配套﹐未能免除學費﹐無法達成全面教育平權﹐"},{"start":12926.983,"end":12941.321,"text":"原件請教育部針對高級中等教育法第36條演繹相關配套措施．落實高中職全面免學費政策提案人異議人之﹐原屬人吳春成﹐科資恩林倩琦范雲"},{"start":12942.222,"end":12966.668,"text":"第4案有鑑於先行高中以下學校暴力事件與偏差行為校安通報件數逐年升高．原件請教育部就國中增聘校安人力進行研究．並於兩個月內向立法院教育文化委員會提出初步研究報告．及未來校安人力配置之政策規劃書面報告．而業員之聯署人吳春成、柯志恩、明倩琦、范雲"},{"start":12968.408,"end":12990.877,"text":"5.有鑒於新修訂《特殊教育法》第38條提供學校之服務內容新增運動輔具服務與適應體育服務為教育部體育署補助推動學校體育運動發展經費原則第3條規定申請之學校單位限於教育部主管之各級學校致使矯正學校無法向體育署申請適應體育資源"},{"start":12993.198,"end":13009.626,"text":"會保障矯正學校內．特教生想以有適應體育服務之權利．嚴請教育部於3個月內修正教育部體育署．補助推動學校體育運動發展經費原則．增加法務部主管制矯正學校提案人陳培宇聯署人吳佩奕"},{"start":13010.606,"end":13013.168,"text":"提供書面報告與教文委員會．盤點明道大學、環球科技大學、大同技術學院．"},{"start":13028.542,"end":13045.549,"text":"及東方設計大學四所退場大學﹐特教學生困境﹐協助安排新校園生活﹐協助人力﹐無障礙環境等措施﹐並持續追蹤學校退場後﹐特教生就學與適應情形﹐而提升特教助理員待遇﹐並提出特教助理員進階增能課程﹐"},{"start":13047.41,"end":13067.335,"text":"建構相關機制使特教助理員服務個案前．提供更充足的個案相關資訊及課程．三、研擬具有系統性的普教教師增能計畫．以及特殊教育教學指引．落實融合教育的核心精神．提案人陳培宇．屬文規情無配意．林倩琦范雲"},{"start":13068.215,"end":13078.256,"text":"第7案介於足協自去年起長期對球員職員欠款問題．本委員會去年5月起及有諸多跨黨派立委持續關切"},{"start":13080.782,"end":13101.608,"text":"考量竹協近日種種荒腔走板事跡．以及體育署在竹協監督上明顯失能．原要求教育部不請因應體育署．發函要求此等消息作為處理本案．而應直接啟動國民體育法第35條．隨時派員或委請會計師．接同體育專業公認人士檢查其財務報表條款．即日同步確認竹協．"},{"start":13110.63,"end":13137.666,"text":"．欠所有自然人與法人之款項明繫．並在教育部與會計師監督下．於兩週內通知所有債權人欠款明繫．並於一個月內由教育部提出本案．自去年5月至今．體育署各種消極行政制使社會與球員．對於體育署監督單項協會．能力喪失信心之檢討．提案人柯志恩陳培育葛如君．"},{"start":13138.406,"end":13164.493,"text":"您欠其範圍第8案介於國中以下特教學生人數逐年攀升．各級學校校園內許多無障礙設施．多以年久失修甚至不符合刑法規．原要求教育部應比照學校操場跑道及周邊設施整建．及老舊廁所整修等專案補助經費．於3個月內盤點各縣市各級學校．校內無障礙設施及特教生．"},{"start":13165.413,"end":13178.158,"text":"特教師生教學設施設備之改善及添購需求．並向行政院徵取專案補助經費．提案人外媒林羅 廷偉 嚴曙人洪孟凱 林倩琴 范雲 宣讀完畢好 謝謝我們現在就一案一案來處理來 我們先看第一案請問提案的委員范雲委員有沒有補充說明或意見的"},{"start":13190.509,"end":13195.293,"text":"第一案我們配合辦理我們照案通過我們第二案提案委員范雲委員有沒有意見?沒有 我剛都講過了好 剛都講過了次長配合辦理好 那我們照案通過那我們第三案也是范雲委員對不起 第三案是葉元芝委員"},{"start":13220.505,"end":13220.846,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":13242.642,"end":13266.283,"text":"好,那,透過單獨招生,好,那我們就修正,之後呢,我們就通過,好,謝謝。然後第4案也是月圓之委員,次長。配合辦理。好,配合辦理。第5案是由陳培宇委員所提出,委員有沒有要建議說明的?好,剛剛已經溝通過了,那次長。"},{"start":13267.117,"end":13294.114,"text":"我們在倒數第二行的部分建議作文字上的修正原請教育部於原來是寫3個月內我們建議是修正為今年8月底前那另外的話就是最後一行那個經費原則那個雙引號後面加幾個字或是訂定矯正學校適應資源相關補助措施以上請委員好"},{"start":13297.827,"end":13319.205,"text":"我現在看到是說適應資源相關補助措施這個寫法到時候當然也會一併涵蓋我們剛剛在質詢的時候所討論到的適應體育的項目當然還有更廣的其他的適應資源相關補助措施這樣對嗎?是的,如果是對一般學校有的適應體育、適應資源的部分也可以擴及到那個矯正學校來辦理"},{"start":13323.762,"end":13324.263,"text":"修正後通過"},{"start":13347.619,"end":13347.659,"text":"提出檢討"},{"start":13374.278,"end":13374.858,"text":"提案外媒林委員"},{"start":13396.304,"end":13396.424,"text":"主席"},{"start":13426.805,"end":13451.946,"text":"其實剛才在執行完以後我也跟了一些縣市的教育局長溝通過那他們也表示其實三個月之內是非常的充裕的那同時 如果你的剛剛好像那個次長還是署長的意思是說我們公文已經下去了要讓他們到八月底現在呢我們把它提成三個月他們很倉俗和不完整其實完全沒有這個問題反而是他們都準備好了在等待你們給予的這麼長的時間所以我覺得"},{"start":13454.748,"end":13455.529,"text":"這件事刻不容緩"},{"start":13476.872,"end":13502.198,"text":"張偉還有天安委員、萬委員我想針對剛剛萬委員的建議的部分我們還是跟萬委員商量一下可不可以爭取多一點的時間因為委員可能詢問的縣市跟學校的部分的話可能因為我們國教署這邊可能會盤到22個縣市因為22個縣市大概都會有這樣子的一個需求所以縣市政府多學校也非常非常多那我們希望能夠盤得更"},{"start":13505.139,"end":13528.772,"text":"市長你這樣講有點矛盾喔你現在的意思是說因為有22縣市教育局那麼多的學校那你整個要盤點這變是你送上來這個國教署的時間其實要快你才有更多的時間去盤點但是各校跟教育局是沒有問題的因為你想想看每一個學校的校長對於學校的狀況其實是很了解的那有這樣的專案或是有這樣的詢問的需求"},{"start":13529.813,"end":13531.494,"text":"三個月的時間絕對夠而且是從現在順序三個月"},{"start":13543.568,"end":13561.936,"text":"謝謝委員,非常地關心這件事情所以希望能夠早一點幫國教署還有幫各縣市完成因為縣市由小到像連江縣這樣它應該三個月內做得完但是也有比較大,像六都尤其新北學校很多,它幾乎是"},{"start":13563.376,"end":13590.734,"text":"一般全國規模的六分之一是不是我們盡量來鼓勵能夠早一點完成的縣市我們就幫他一起來合作那有些縣市的確需要比較久我們也讓他比較完整因為這次他不是一般性常常在盤點的項目他是比較屬於我們有規範的特效項目他要找對的人一起清查跟盤點所以是不是讓這個就是他要找專業的人一起盤點不是校內總務人員就能盤點"},{"start":13592.435,"end":13592.535,"text":"主席"},{"start":13608.342,"end":13633.868,"text":"我覺得我們應該寫就是6月底因為剛好一個學期嘛你7月、8月暑假的時間我們也很知道學校的人力上面的調配也沒那麼多的老師也不在然後行政也要去輪值輪班所以我覺得6月底其實是很好的那趕快送上來以後啊你們才有更多的時間去盤整一下我們到底這個計畫要跟行政院拿多少預算所以6月底好不好先主席才是 謝謝"},{"start":13635.751,"end":13654.094,"text":"委員提到6月底是各縣市政報上來的時間還是我們國教署這邊還是國教署還是國教署對對對那剛才謝謝市長剛才委員所提的剛才有跟委員報告過他最近涉及到縣市的"},{"start":13658.301,"end":13679.987,"text":"這次的清查跟盤點會涉及到那個項目的專業性那個專業性如果學校他盤點出來以後我們就會一直逐步幫他爭取所以這一次給他比較完整的時間有助於未來一次一次的做完經費的爭取到位否則他到時候又說我沒有盤點完這時中間又一直要補強這個可能會比較可惜"},{"start":13681.027,"end":13709.549,"text":"我也跟委員報告．這個比較小型的縣市．我們跟他督促說．是不是我們跟他合作．早一點完成．大的縣市．讓他久一點的時間．用緣來給他的涵．但是中間剛才委員關心的幾個．尤其有些縣市已經很有經驗．也做完了．我們就跟他先收集起來．這樣好不好．就不要是全國都只能到8月底．有時候一講8月底．他沒有可能到9月才交．這樣也可惜．是不是我們盡量．8月底全部都做完．但是我們．"},{"start":13710.009,"end":13712.43,"text":"每個月每個月的狀況有多少縣市回來了那完成的比例是多少每個月跟我們教文委員會回報一下好不好讓我們這樣確實在做因為老實講我會這樣子規範這個時間是因為對你們非常不放心"},{"start":13735.788,"end":13738.331,"text":"每個月要讓我們知道現在進度到的百分比是多少"},{"start":13758.692,"end":13779.397,"text":"麻煩就如萬委員所要求的每個月讓他也要了解進度所以我們文字上還是在8月底就對了OK好那我們修正文字後就通過好謝謝那接下來我們繼續我們今天的如果各位委員有要補簽的請議事人員想家登載在我們的議事錄上那接著我們要進行我們的質詢那就是林倩琦委員謝謝"},{"start":13793.357,"end":13822.282,"text":"來 次長 謝謝您好今天我想大家都是對於這個特殊教育的這個議題有各種不同內容的一個提出跟討論那我這邊在這個部分因為時間的關係我就先處理這個有關原住民的在IEP這個部分的一個狀況那所以我不知道那個部裡面對於目前有IEP CASE的原住民生的總數跟比例上是多少"},{"start":13824.852,"end":13825.793,"text":"原住民在學習的狀況上"},{"start":13842.119,"end":13865.136,"text":"跟一般人如果說比較有差異或不太一樣那很多老師就會把他轉介一直到最後就變成IEP的case那對大家造成的麻煩有可能是他也不是很精準的診斷但是呢如果這個學生一旦有了IEP那對他未來的求職是有很大的影響那尤其像他就絕對不可能成為軍人"},{"start":13866.297,"end":13866.997,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":13894.97,"end":13895.33,"text":"主席"},{"start":13910.97,"end":13934.943,"text":"今天因為體育史委來了所以我有比較緊急的個案問題需要可能也是個偷案也就是現在很多學校跟體育相關的場館的跑道通通改為PU跑道真正在比賽的合成橡膠跑道現在就是台北一個然後高雄剩下私營一種主場館"},{"start":13936.064,"end":13952.479,"text":"那結果聽說試運組場館也要換成PU跑道那會造成一個問題就是那要比賽的選手他必須要跑來台北就剩下唯一的這個合成橡膠的跑道來練習那不知道這個部裡面對這件事情的看法"},{"start":13953.616,"end":13971.446,"text":"跟委員報告一下那那個跑道的部分只要經過那個國際總會認定可合可的這個跑道那認證過了基本上都可以辦理相關的比賽那但是材質還是不一樣啊所以我想請教一下那目前世運主場館是要換成PU跑道的嗎?"},{"start":13972.999,"end":13996.074,"text":"跟委員報告一下那個市運會主餐館原先的那個田徑跑道是用夢斗的然後他現在是那個中華民國田徑協會這邊也會建議他們改成複合式的PU啦因為他的複合式PU的一個使用年限會比較長然後他的相關的一些維護保養的部分也比較方便然後造價的部分也比較便宜"},{"start":13996.734,"end":14005.68,"text":"那這個部分其實是影響到選手他們在參加國際賽事那如果不是那種合成相較這個部分經過IAAF那個國際田徑總會這邊又經過認證因為他有分一級二級的認證只要經過他們認證的選手在這邊比賽他所創造的成績國際總會這邊通通都是認可的"},{"start":14021.161,"end":14021.441,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":14041.094,"end":14060.624,"text":"但重點不是賽事是他們在練習的時候他們希望能夠跑在跟賽事比較接近的這樣一個跑道上那我們就比較擔心適應主場館你換了之後那可能跟他們的這個原本在比賽的這個材質方面會有很大的落差所以有可能造成這樣一個問題"},{"start":14061.909,"end":14062.169,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":14080.999,"end":14082.24,"text":"請體育署及田徑總會與高雄市政府作評估"},{"start":14106.829,"end":14106.989,"text":"主席"},{"start":14124.995,"end":14145.411,"text":"私立學校不應該列入的這個聘約裡面的東西做了一個討論但是這空有這樣的條款那其實各校好像也無所感所以我這邊很清楚的提一個就是說我們是不是可以仿照跟公立大學一樣的平等的被對待的方式把私立學校老師離職的這個離職金的懲罰、罰款取消掉"},{"start":14150.639,"end":14171.57,"text":"跟委員報告一下,如果是針對退場的學校的部分的話因為基本上這個退場學校當然我們都希望這個學校能夠妥善這個處於這個叫教師的這個退場的問題所以基本上在聘約上面應該都不會,包含教育部也介入啦所以基本上因為學校退場所以應該不至於會有那個那個那個賠償金的這樣的問題啦"},{"start":14173.471,"end":14193.83,"text":"委員提到一般的私立學校簽約的部分如果他要轉換跑道的部分會有違約金、賠償金的問題因為一方面這個也是涉及到私立學校他們跟老師之間等於是私人契約的相關問題如果他定定的不合理的話那我想我們這個部分會來督導學校來做一個釐清"},{"start":14195.732,"end":14220.927,"text":"是是是我這邊的訴求就是那個老師離職不要再罰緩那我也本席也不認為說在這樣子的契約裡面要依據民法的法則來做一個處理所以是不是部裡面這邊這件事情我已經提了兩三次而且會一直提那原先部裡面給我的回應簡直是讓我快昏倒了就寫了一兩條然後就附了一堆資料給我們"},{"start":14222.268,"end":14249.089,"text":"這個資料是我就可以直接把它提出來跟你們說我需要處理的一個訴求還是We don't know what's gonna be done是不是委員的部分我請我們業務單位可能跟我們的包含那個私校的一些協進會還有包含一些私立學校的部分就這個有關那個懲罰性的這個這個聘約的一個合理性的部分來做一些的檢討"},{"start":14249.93,"end":14264.861,"text":"我還是強調教師在這個部分是一個弱勢不管你是高教師或者是記職師大家都會碰到這樣的學校這一點是本席一直非常重視的我會一直追請布裡面這個部分不要再給我"},{"start":14267.202,"end":14267.342,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":14282.202,"end":14309.528,"text":"是一個真正能解決問題的回應不是給我一堆資料因為這個部分的話基本上因為涉及到剛剛講私立學校跟老師之間聘約的相關的約定所以我們必須也要跟那個包含一些那個私校那個協會還有包含那個私校的一些的代表的部分可能做一些的討論是是是那我希望這個代表能夠有比較多方而不是只有具有權勢的當然包含的教師代表可能一起來做一些的討論那是不是這個委員的部分是不是給我們大概"},{"start":14316.171,"end":14336.223,"text":"委員的部分有一個臨時提案是不是我們依照委員的臨時提案的部分來做一個處理那是上回我提進去的嘛但是他最關鍵的就是我後來查了你們在去年的那個開會裡面你所謂的這個違反的這個部分的一個"},{"start":14336.963,"end":14337.543,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":14361.646,"end":14362.907,"text":"請問多久的時間可以再往下一步"},{"start":14385.59,"end":14386.251,"text":"黃珊珊委員列席時間4分鐘"},{"start":14418.816,"end":14419.437,"text":"謝主席 我請次長"},{"start":14424.828,"end":14450.049,"text":"市長我想有關特教的部分一般來說我們從民國98年到現在其實普通班的人數早就已經很多次的調降師生比那特教生到現在為止其實98年特教法附帶決議的時候希望能夠達到1比815年過去了1比8我看到你們的報告還在盤點什麼時候要盤點完盤點了15年"},{"start":14454.632,"end":14473.672,"text":"跟委員報告一下因為去年度的特殊教育法在6月份修正公布之後我們目前依照授權的執法同時也依照當時候的修法相關的建議我只問你你還要盤點多久我們目前的部分大概針對你們說要5年之內完成是嗎"},{"start":14477.096,"end":14479.257,"text":"第2個部分是有關特教老師現在他們"},{"start":14505.347,"end":14506.831,"text":"3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會議3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會議"},{"start":14516.173,"end":14536.171,"text":"幾乎寒暑假沒有薪水所以幾乎請不到什麼好的人最重要是沒有專業的素養也沒有相關的培訓或者是專業的認證我看你們計畫裡面針對所謂的特教助理人員現在要花錢讓他有基本專任第二個讓他能夠有相關的訓練是嗎"},{"start":14537.552,"end":14538.413,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":14564.586,"end":14593.192,"text":"至於時薪制的部分的話基本上會參考時薪制如果他有完成相關的資格我們還是要講你用香蕉只能請到猴子你要給人家好東西才會來願意做這麼辛苦的工作這是一個不容易的工作第二個特教的教師授課的結束目前為止跟普通班普通班的導師大概是16節特教班的導師反而是18節次長 這個能不能改善"},{"start":14596.629,"end":14623.177,"text":"特教老師的授課結束因為人不夠所以授課結束就變高答案就是這樣因為師生比的關係這個請你去研議接下來就是我們代表很多的特教老師其實他們碰到的問題是他們在資源班因為他們可能是一班有配兩個老師或三個老師但是他們是同用一個教室所以常常會"},{"start":14624.857,"end":14643.884,"text":"這個老師在教這個課那個老師在教那個課可能有互相干擾的情況現在的學校都少子化了其實學校的空間是可以再增加的如果可能的話是不是可以給他獨立的教學空間讓他有能力不會受到干擾的情況下而且他們是要照顧這些特別的孩子"},{"start":14645.885,"end":14655.77,"text":"教育部可否有一個相關統一的規範讓各個學校給特教老師更多獨立的空間?就是希望他們有獨立的空間我們希望教育部來爭取讓特教老師有獨立的空間這是我們的期待"},{"start":14668.496,"end":14684.23,"text":"最後一個問題就是特教津貼從民國81年到現在1800塊32年了沒有調漲過特教津貼要不要調漲一下呢軍公教加4%都不到加了幾次了特教老師的津貼只有1832年了"},{"start":14688.813,"end":14710.338,"text":"有關特教津貼的部分我們今年度已經擴及到三類的人都可以致領全額了然後這個人種處的部分在前一陣子大概已經核定了那至於剛剛1800塊錢的部分是不是多年沒有調是不是做調整這個我們會持續的來跟行政院做一個爭取拜託你了我想幫特教老師爭取他們才會更願意投入這個領域謝謝好 謝謝黃委謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":14716.314,"end":14734.459,"text":"張家俊委員、張家俊委員、張家俊委員鄭天才委員、鄭天才委員、鄭天才委員謝一鳳委員、謝一鳳委員、謝一鳳委員鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜委員羅志強委員"},{"start":14745.989,"end":14746.652,"text":"主席有請次長"},{"start":14753.625,"end":14776.472,"text":"市長好我看到教育部的報告說要改善我們講談特教的問題要改善私生比相關人員的薪資待遇還有以集建來處理校園的無障礙空間這些當然都是對的方向但是我要跟部長說有些部分好像沒有針對現行的問題來因應"},{"start":14779.153,"end":14788.601,"text":"那比方說我舉個例子就是從2009年到2022年特教生人數成長的比例是多少你知道嗎"},{"start":14790.469,"end":14803.392,"text":"特教學生人數比例也因為幫我們通報以及特教法相規定的部分這個部分大概都我這邊得到的數字是22.7%那我想請問那個部長那這13年間特教生的來源結構有沒有什麼樣的改變呢有什麼樣的改變我請我們吳司長來"},{"start":14817.739,"end":14835.855,"text":"大部分的障礙類別差異不太大但對於學習障礙、情緒障礙以及自閉症的這個部分人數有顯著的增加對,實際上這13年間雖然特教生的總數成長但身體障礙的部分,知不知道智能、視覺、聽覺等等等是下降了"},{"start":14836.776,"end":14846.686,"text":"可是心理障礙包括情緒、行為、自閉症、學習障礙占比大幅增加從占35個百分點變成是67.3個百分點其實這個變動不能說很小就是說蠻大的變動可是面對8萬的心理障礙的特教生"},{"start":14859.139,"end":14879.826,"text":"我們的教育部國教署110學年度一共只提供了1651次的心理諮商服務那即便是在地方政府提供服務的部分大概只有10.4%是心理諮商服務所以我現在其實要強調就是說特教生的結構已經不一樣"},{"start":14880.746,"end":14904.049,"text":"所以教育部應該要花更多的資源心力去因應這個心理情緒障礙的特教生可是以目前我看到數據來看是明顯不足所以這個我想能不能請教育部這邊能夠真的去針對最新的狀況就是尤其特教生的那個比重的改變應該有個相應的做法吧"},{"start":14905.57,"end":14932.422,"text":"謝謝老闆提醒我想因應特教學生結構的調整及改變以及針對目前學生的一些新的相關問題包含心理適應的相關問題這個部分我們會持續關注以及益助相關的資源以及提升教師的專業智能謝謝次長剛剛其實我有聽到黃珊珊委員在質詢關於特教生私生筆的部分現在私生筆是多少"},{"start":14933.274,"end":14937.836,"text":"我舉幾個數字給您聽特教的老師人數增加但是2022年身心障礙的15293位特教老師有高達26%是代理老師"},{"start":14955.484,"end":14972.986,"text":"有說這15000個特教老師有15個百分點不是特教的合格教師是一般的合格教師有些甚至不具備教師資格所以我的意思說師生比當然很重要但這麼嚴重的師資問題我覺得教育部可能也要認真的看待"},{"start":14973.727,"end":14973.747,"text":"謝謝羅委員﹖謝謝"},{"start":15005.048,"end":15008.15,"text":"政政前委員、邱志偉委員、何欣淳委員"},{"start":15026.575,"end":15036.84,"text":"市長好你好我想今天我們在關心特教那特教有很多的一些議題事實上之前我們一直在教育委員會一直在討論不過我蠻覺得遺憾的是什麼你知道嗎像我看到今天你們的報告裡面還在講我們"},{"start":15044.764,"end":15061.024,"text":"之前一直在講的這個特教學生助理人員的事情雖然我們有積極在推動第一個我看到你們要徵聘人力第二個你們也願意調整他的薪資結構但是呢我真的看到這樣子的數字"},{"start":15062.445,"end":15082.091,"text":"還是不夠真的還是不夠這麼多年來我們這樣的努力的來第一個要求教育部來編預算第二個希望跟地方的教育局能好好的討論說這些我們的特殊教育的這些學生學生旁邊的這個助理人員我擔心的是什麼"},{"start":15082.591,"end":15084.692,"text":"我剛剛看到你們的這個報告從113學年度配置400往後每學年要遞增400所以在116學年度每年可以禁用的人可以達到1600人這樣子的一個"},{"start":15101.513,"end":15128.673,"text":"配置第一個是問題第二個那未來呢到了各級的這個學校裡面的特殊學生的一個分配數又是更少之又少那到底有沒有全面的去盤點我們以目前甚至要預估5年後甚至呢我們希望可以怎麼讓這個整個特效學生的一個助理人員的一個禁用跟配置是能夠達到"},{"start":15129.974,"end":15130.154,"text":"主席"},{"start":15160.814,"end":15161.774,"text":"每年400個設置月薪制的教學"},{"start":15189.18,"end":15216.943,"text":"月薪制的月薪是落點在哪裡?對,然後薪水的部分會從3萬1千7到3萬7千8的一個待遇所以待遇也做了一個調整除了這個月薪制的1600位,4年1600位之外針對那個實薪制的這個部分的話經費我們會持續來做一個增加那以實薪制的現在進用的這個助理人員有多少?"},{"start":15217.563,"end":15218.824,"text":"7800位每個小時183元全部是中央來補助"},{"start":15234.596,"end":15244.002,"text":"對,都是由中央政府來做一個補助經費是嗎?地方也會有配合款按照財力等級按照財力等級嘛,對不對?那我是認為說這個要盤點第一個實心智的這些我們的助理人員到底夠不夠那他的這個薪資待遇結構可不可以再調整得更好這是第二個問題第三個我們現在增加的這些月薪制的"},{"start":15257.35,"end":15284.07,"text":"那這些月薪制的這個人員的一個配置那公不公平、合不合理、能不能到位我想這是大家最關心的因為呢我們要做這樣子的一個修法之後的一個配套措施那要做就要做到好不要做半套啦那而且我最後我還擔心的是什麼我們現在雖然調整了這樣子的人數的配置也調整了他的薪資結構但是呢人從哪裡來"},{"start":15285.632,"end":15296.262,"text":"現在台灣面臨少子化的社會各行各業普遍缺工缺乏人力資源那以這樣子需要有第一個需要有愛心耐心專業能力專業資能那他又必須要能夠付出專職那人從哪裡來你們有想過嗎"},{"start":15303.211,"end":15326.915,"text":"是,跟委員報告一下目前剛剛提到的就是我們那個時薪制的這個特效助理員的部分大概有7800人這7800人如果就實務面看到了有很多都是學生的親友來兼任未來就會轉成那個月薪制的那未來部分我們會持續辦理30個6個小時的這樣子的一個這個課程也希望能夠增加"},{"start":15327.315,"end":15356.335,"text":"所以你要建立一套制度加強他們的專業知能跟他們的專業的一個知識之後呢然後希望能夠由時薪制轉任為月薪制那原來時薪制的缺額呢時薪制我們就會我們會就辦理也是持續辦理相關的一個所以你這樣的制度的設計不是我想像中的時薪制加未來徵聘的月薪制是1加1大於2你的意思是說這有可能是1加1不等於2"},{"start":15357.425,"end":15383.551,"text":"但我們還是會增加辦理相關的研習讓新進的特教助理也能夠來入場你會不會給我一個比較完整的書面報告好不好我覺得這個要好好的來探討好不好因為這樣子才能夠真正的做到修法之後我們想要為這個特教環境做到的一個完整的一個人力的到位跟配置好不好謝謝"},{"start":15388.577,"end":15392.179,"text":"關於今天的會議我們做如下的決議報告及詢問完畢然後委員所提的書面質詢或是相關的資料都列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":15415.189,"end":15426.519,"text":"對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料．或者未及答覆的部分．請相關的機關競速以書面答覆報告委員會．我們今天的議程處理完畢．現在散會．謝謝各位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}