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在這樣的一個情況之下,還有一個什麼呢?"},{"start":78.712,"end":88.015,"text":"有廠商在完成之後,他的投資獲利他沒有跟員工來共享,或者是核定龍帶的部分呢,他沒有符合。"},{"start":88.735,"end":95.016,"text":"在這樣的一個情況之下導致是不是因為如此導致你在114年的預算你反而你反而是減少了322萬7千萬元這個在我們整個產業界來講是很華然的一件事情那所以本期要請教113年底也就是現在快要到了剩一個多月"},{"start":110.88,"end":110.9,"text":"蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":140.66,"end":142.04,"text":"經濟部及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":167.576,"end":194.183,"text":"總金額需要的目標是在增加6千億的投資增加6千億的投資那本席再告訴你為什麼114年你的委辦會減少呢因為這個部分是編在科專的計畫裡面那因為科專統三的關係所以減少那因為原來的原因是你請回座來部長你來自企業界你聽到政府是如此統三所以導致減少"},{"start":195.203,"end":200.425,"text":"讓人家很嘩然所以第一個我們確認這個對台灣的企業來講非常重要我們確認也就是113年底到我們會延續三年希望創造6000億的一個產值那麼在你們的違辦費當中113年的你竟然在114年減少了300多萬"},{"start":220.132,"end":227.004,"text":"這個是不對的你們要怎麼樣去調整符合我們企業界的所需第二個也就是說針對於為什麼還有預辦"},{"start":231.089,"end":257.091,"text":"我申請通過我還在做的那在整個你們的方案裡頭可以怎麼樣經濟讓產業界可以好好的跟著政府去打拼政府好好做企業界的靠山這是我們要的認不認同完全認同完全認同那你把經濟方案給本席那我們確認也就是113年底到我們的方案再延長三年告訴給我們的這個產業界朋友請放心政府還是你的靠山"},{"start":257.898,"end":263.401,"text":"多久經濟方案給本席?年底一併經濟方案因為我們要延續再延續三年接下來本席還是要跟你討論電的問題114年我們在講你的追加預算今天在財委會經濟委員會財委會一起的討論"},{"start":287.294,"end":300.078,"text":"這一家的是一千億那如果明年的預算公共預算一千億換句話說總撥補是多少五千億假設假設這兩千億再通過所以本席要請教因為本席也覺得部長你還是蠻有gas的因為你說因為你說了10月16號執行到現在"},{"start":311.061,"end":333.135,"text":"我們現在兩個半月那麼你預估會收入的電費漲價的從10月16號開始是150億那全年約可以預注740億那如果台電截至到去年累計的是虧損3800億那再加上今年度113年是850億那這樣子是4600億"},{"start":338.118,"end":357.822,"text":"但是部長我說你用烏紗帽來打包票那您說的如果撥補2000億兩年後兩年內還漲電價那就是管理太差該走人但是你也會跟台電的員工共同來努力不使台電再繼續虧損這是你講的話嗎"},{"start":362.216,"end":373.267,"text":"我曾經有講過類似的話是您講的話嗎?是不是?不要咬人絕痴是您說的話嗎?對不對?這個方向是對的所以現在還是維持這個方向是不是?"},{"start":374.438,"end":376.239,"text":"電價不是我決定的我先問你討論"},{"start":399.87,"end":407.495,"text":"你剛才講說不能調價,調價不是我的,這是一個命題,這是一個很重要的因子在裡面。很重要的因子,我們再重複一句話,撥補2000億兩年後還漲電價,就是管理太差該走人,這是你講的話嗎?沒錯。那你也會以管理來改善嗎?是不是?針對本席的提問,你也說你會用管理來改善,是不是?"},{"start":430.29,"end":433.691,"text":"明年的電價會不會漲價不是我能決定的這個是這個電價審議委員在做決定的"},{"start":453.766,"end":469.4,"text":"部長 剛剛本席還說你很有架勢 你現在又沒架勢了怎麼說呢 本席告訴你 我們今年你的追加預算一千億明年的公務一千億 假設真的再撥補就五千億你已經把北市撥這麼大 請問明年還會不會漲價"},{"start":479.207,"end":505.997,"text":"請問明年會不會漲價是電價審議委員的部分那我講話那個前提是2000億你給我的以後兩年後他還需要漲價那我就下台就這樣子啊兩年後還需要漲價那不代表明年會漲價是嗎你的解讀是不是你所謂我們在理清楚你所謂的是給了以後你兩年後就不漲"},{"start":507.237,"end":512.144,"text":"若再漲就管理太差你的解讀是如此那換句話說明年跟後年還是有機會由電價評議委員會去決定資是不是如此是不是如此是不是如此因為現在正在審追加預算跟明年度的預算"},{"start":526.616,"end":529.799,"text":"再請教部長因為你來自企業你要用管理去改善你年底要提出台電的財務管理對不對我們在這邊討論了很多次那再一次的請教假設現在已經3000億的撥補你10月16號又漲人民的電價"},{"start":548.9,"end":555.822,"text":"接下來如果我們的追加預算1000億再給如果明年114年度的公務預算再撥補1000億那總共5000億再加上10月16號已經漲價在這樣的情況之下請教明年會不會漲價"},{"start":567.912,"end":590.917,"text":"明年會不會漲價不是我能夠決定的他是電價審議委員會去決定的所以部長這也是你的回答也是你的論點那個王總經理要回答你是不是告訴我明年不漲價來你趕快講請你趕快講不是跟委員報告啦齁如果因為咬人絕肢沒有用我們希望民眾希望得到答案"},{"start":592.861,"end":615.981,"text":"今年如果補1000億給台電今年年底台電就稍微有一點盈餘這些數字你預計會盈餘77億多嗎我本心已經給你看數字看得很清楚請你繼續回答所以我們就是因為有盈餘所以這些數字都會提供給電價審議委員會在明年的時候會去做參考由他們來決定要不要漲電價"},{"start":617.982,"end":634.625,"text":"通膨嚴重未來不知所以我代表人民要請問明年是不是如果再給撥補是不是明年也有盈餘是不是應當不漲讓人民好生活是不是朝這個方向社會上就是整個燃料的價格的變動能夠在預期的範圍之內那當然是會比較樂觀沒有什麼問題沒有問題來部長"},{"start":643.487,"end":661.833,"text":"您聽到我還是希望以你企業的管理我們來做討論喔也就是真的人民苦哈哈很辛苦那我們到底要怎麼樣去穩定這非常的重要你不可能撥兩層皮一方面公務預算撥補追加預算撥補一方面再漲價"},{"start":664.09,"end":680.89,"text":"然後我們又確認再請問明年是不是部長如果照王總經理這樣講人民似乎有一點安心喔所以部長是不是朝這個方向來努力我們當然是朝這個方向來努力我們朝這個方向來努力朝這個方向來努力接下來"},{"start":683.052,"end":704.048,"text":"本期最後一個議題給你也就是經濟部你11月21號復行政院報告城鄉在地共好能量提升計畫要辦理368個城鄉這個評選跟全國競賽這個對於我們中小企業來講是非常非常的重要那其中在你的預算裡頭只有提及4年"},{"start":705.518,"end":711.525,"text":"中小企業是活絡我們地方經濟非常重要而且是穩定國家的一個重要的基礎所以你喊了4年5億你的內容是什麼"},{"start":725.314,"end":749.926,"text":"我們5億還是一樣的,讓每一個城鄉然後出來然後跟各地方的縣市政府一起來凸顯它的特色讓我們5億人做的事情很少,所以我們會辦比賽,全國辦比賽部長你剛才講了中小企業很重要,然後你又說5億很少可以做很少的事情,那我們中小企業該怎麼辦?中小企業占我們主要企業很多數"},{"start":751.391,"end":763.176,"text":"報告委員我只是講就是說我們會有方法讓整個中小企業起來請問你的方法方案什麼要出來什麼時候出來因為你現在只有畫一個把還沒有啦部長你只有告訴我們要辦比賽拿出368個城鄉的特色你的計畫還沒出來所以本席要請教大家都拭目以待啊什麼時候會出來你的方案"},{"start":778.602,"end":779.522,"text":"本期告訴您因為我們在審預算"},{"start":803.951,"end":804.071,"text":"主席"},{"start":823.948,"end":824.088,"text":"發言委員：楊瓊瓔"},{"start":846.55,"end":849.033,"text":"一個禮拜放案給本席,但是我也要為我們中小企業來請命,就像部長你所說的,四年五月對我們的中小企業是沒救的啦!對不對?"},{"start":865.331,"end":877.357,"text":"對 是不夠的 所以你務必想辦法要怎麼樣讓我們中小企業可以活絡起來預算方面 我想憑你的能量絕對可以再增加嘛 對不對加油謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":358,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時6分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。我們首先來討論「促進投資─加速投資臺灣之服務計畫」，我看了你們114年的委辦費覺得很納悶，你的委辦費反而是減少的，你114年編列了1,672萬3,000元，主要是在辦理整個投資臺灣三大方案的單一窗口服務事項，那本席很納悶，你竟然會自動減少。","但是我也看到，或許是因為這個原因，我不知道！也就是審計部在112年的總決算審核報告裡頭有提出審核意見：你在投資臺灣三大方案裡頭引導廠商投資以及協助升級轉型，逾半投資案件沒有完成，允宜改善，俾如期完成，希望能夠達到你的政策目標。在這樣的一個情況之下，還有什麼呢？有廠商在完成之後，他的投資獲利沒有跟員工來共享，或者是核定融貸的部分沒有符合。在這樣的一個情況之下，是不是因為如此，導致你114年的預算反而減少了322萬7,000元？這個在我們整個產業界來講，是很譁然的一件事情！","所以本席要請教，113年底──也就是現在、快要到了、剩一個多月，投資臺灣的三大方案要屆期了，本席要告訴你一個數字，到今年6月，仍舊有五成通過審核的投資計畫還在繼續辦理當中，所以我們的產業界很緊張，我們希望能夠繼續！又看到你的委辦費竟然是減少的，這個讓人家很納悶。所以本席要請教，你們在今年年底屆期之後會不會繼續辦理？精進方案是什麼？請做說明。"],["郭部長智輝：我可不可以請投資司跟你報告？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請告訴我會不會繼續？"],["張司長銘斌：跟委員報告，我們現在已經報院申請是不是能夠……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：繼續四年嘛？"],["張司長銘斌：延長三年。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：三年還是四年？"],["張司長銘斌：三年。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：確認是再延長三年？113年底到了再延長三年？"],["張司長銘斌：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：總金額？"],["張司長銘斌：關於總金額，續航的目標是再增加6,000億的投資。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：增加6,000億的投資？"],["張司長銘斌：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那本席再問你，為什麼114年你的委辦費減少呢？"],["張司長銘斌：因為這個部分是編在科專的計畫裡面，那因為科專統刪的關係，所以減少，那因為原來的原因是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你請回座。部長，你來自企業界，你聽到政府是如此，統刪所以導致減少，讓人家很譁然！所以第一個我們要確認，這個對臺灣的企業來講非常重要，我們確認113年底到了會延續三年，希望創造6,000億的產值，那麼在你們的委辦費當中，你竟然在114年減少了三百多萬，這個是不對的，你們要怎麼樣去調整以符合我們企業界所需？第二個，針對逾半申請通過還在做的，那在你們整個方案裡頭可以怎麼樣精進？讓產業界可以好好的跟著政府去打拼，政府好好做企業界的靠山，這是我們要的，認不認同？"],["郭部長智輝：完全認同。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：完全認同，那你把精進方案給本席，那我們確認113年底到了，我們的方案再延長三年，告訴我們的產業界朋友請放心，政府還是你的靠山，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員，需要您的支持。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久精進方案給本席？"],["郭部長智輝：我們年底的時候一併送給委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：年底一併提供精進方案，因為我們要再延續三年。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來，本席還是要跟你討論電的問題，關於你的追加預算，今天在財委會那邊由經濟委員會跟財委會一起討論，追加的是1,000億，如果明年的預算是在公務預算1,000億，換句話說，總撥補是多少？5,000億，假設這2,000億再通過的話。所以本席要請教，本席也覺得部長還是滿有guts的，因為你說10月16號執行到現在，剩下兩個半月，你預估會收入的電費──漲價的！從10月16號開始是150億，那全年約可挹注740億，如果台電截至去年累計虧損3,800億，那再加上今年度113年是850億，這樣子是4,600億；而部長你用烏紗帽來打包票，你說如果撥補2,000億，兩年後……兩年內還漲電價，那就是管理太差、該走人，但是你也會跟台電的員工共同努力，不使台電再繼續虧損。這是你講的話嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我曾經有講過類似的話。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是你講的話嘛，是不是？不要咬文嚼字，是您說的話嘛，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：這個方向是對的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你現在還是維持這個方向，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，電價不是我決定的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：來，你不要緊張！"],["郭部長智輝：是電價審議委員決定的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：再請教，你有說你會用管理來改善，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：我有說我會用管理來改善。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，這些都是正確的方向，你不要緊張，你將你的理念講出來，這是最重要的……"],["郭部長智輝：不是，我要講的是，電價不是我決定的，我是申訴……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我沒有問你電價，我先問你、討論你的管理方向。"],["郭部長智輝：你剛才講說不能調價，調價不是我的……這是一個命題，這是很重要的因子在裡面。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：很重要的因子。我們再重複一句話，撥補2,000億，兩年後還漲電價就是管理太差、該走人，這是你講的話嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你也會以管理來改善嘛，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：所以……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是不是？請針對本席的提問！你也說你會用管理來改善，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是嘛，好。所以本席要請教，如果真的追加預算1,000億，那照剛剛您說的話，也是你的正確方向，本席非常認同，那請問明年電價會不會漲價？"],["郭部長智輝：明年的電價會不會漲價不是我能決定的，這個是電價審議委員在做決定的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，剛剛本席還說你很有guts，你現在又沒guts了！"],["郭部長智輝：沒有啦，這是兩年後，要判斷這些也要兩年後，跟明年沒關係！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席告訴你，今年你的追加預算1,000億，明年的公務1,000億，假設真的再撥補就5,000億，你已經把百姓剝這層皮這麼大了！請問明年還會不會漲價？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，明年會不會漲價是電價審議委員的部分，我講的那個前提是2,000億你給我了以後，2年後它還需要漲價，那我就下臺，就這樣子啊。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：2年後還需要漲價……"],["郭部長智輝：對啊，不是說明年……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那不就代表明年會漲價，是嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：明年會不會漲價……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你的解讀是不是……我們再釐清楚，你所謂的給了以後2年後就不漲，如果再漲就是管理太差？"],["郭部長智輝：對啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你的解讀是如此？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：換句話說，明年到後年還是有機會，由電價評議委員會去決定之，是不是如此？"],["郭部長智輝：讓我們努力嘛。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是不是如此？"],["郭部長智輝：讓我們努力嘛。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是不是如此？因為現在正在審追加預算跟明年度的預算。"],["郭部長智輝：是啊，但是我跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，沒關係，我們好好釐清楚。再請教部長，因為你來自企業，你要用管理去改善，你年底要提出台電的財務管理，對不對？我們在這邊討論了很多次。"],["郭部長智輝：對，是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：再一次請教，假設現在已經撥補3,000億，你10月16號已漲人民的電價，接下來如果我們的追加預算再給1,000億，如果明年114年度的公務預算再撥補1,000億，總共5,000億，再加上10月16號已經漲價，在這樣的情況之下，請教明年會不會漲價？"],["郭部長智輝：明年會不會漲價不是我能夠決定的，它是電價審議委員會去決定的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，部長，所以這也是你的回答，也是你的論點？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：王總經理要回答，你是不是告訴我明年不漲價？來，你趕快講，請你趕快講。"],["王總經理耀庭：不是，跟委員報告，如果……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：咬文嚼字沒有用，民眾希望得到答案。"],["王總經理耀庭：今年如果補1,000億給台電，今年年底台電就稍微有一點盈餘，這些數字我們都會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你預計會盈餘七十七億多嘛，本席已經給你看數字看得很清楚，請你繼續回答。"],["王總經理耀庭：就是因為有盈餘，這些數字都會提供給電價審議委員會在明年的時候去做參考，由他們來決定要不要漲電價，所以等於是說……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：通膨很嚴重，未來不知，所以我要代表人民請問，明年如果再給撥補，是不是明年也有盈餘？是不是應當不漲，讓人民有好生活，是不是朝這個方向？"],["王總經理耀庭：如果社會上整個燃料價格的變動能夠在預期範圍之內，當然是會比較樂觀，沒有什麼問題，但是不知道……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會比較樂觀，好，沒有問題。來，部長，您聽到了，我還是希望以你企業的管理，我們來討論，人民真的苦哈哈，很辛苦，我們到底要怎麼樣去穩定，這非常重要，你不可能撥兩層皮，一方面公務預算撥補、追加預算撥補，一方面在漲價，然後我們又確認……再請問，明年是不是不漲？如果照王總經理這樣講，人民似乎有一點安心，所以部長是不是朝這個方向來努力？"],["郭部長智輝：我們當然是朝這個方向來努力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：朝這個方向來努力喔！"],["郭部長智輝：但是漲不漲不是我能決定的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，接下來本席給你最後一個議題，也就是經濟部11月21號赴行政院報告「城鄉在地共好能量提升計畫」，要辦理368個城鄉評選跟全國競賽，這個對於我們中小企業來講是非常非常地重要，其中在你的預算裡頭，只有提及4年5億的經費，目的要擴大商機，但是我們看不到內容，中小企業是活絡我們地方經濟非常重要的基礎，而且是穩定國家的一個重要基礎，所以你喊了4年5億，你的內容是什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：我們5億還是一樣啦，讓每一個城鄉出來，然後跟各地方的縣市政府一起來凸顯它的特色，5億能做的事情很少，所以我們會辦比賽，全國辦比賽。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你剛才講了，中小企業很重要，然後你又說5億很少，只能做很少的事情，我們中小企業該怎麼辦？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，我們沒有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：中小企業占我們主要企業很多數。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我只是講說我們會有方法讓整個中小企業起來……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問你的方法、方案什麼時候出來？"],["郭部長智輝：我就是辦比賽，各鄉鎮去……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為你現在只有畫一個靶，還沒有啦！部長，你只有告訴我們要辦比賽，拿出368個城鄉的特色，你的計畫還沒出來，大家都拭目以待啊，所以本席要請教，你的方案什麼時候會出來？"],["郭部長智輝：我們是甄選好的案子給大家參考，然後他們再提出一個更有特色的案子出來，所以每一個城鄉不會一樣，這個部分是循序漸進，它不是1年的案子，而是一個4年的案子，所以跟委員報告，這個你給我一點時間，也許我可以去跟你稍微做一個簡報。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席告訴您，因為我們在審預算，我們代表人民，要知道它的內容，這一筆預算OK不OK，但今天沒有內容，你現在告訴我，它的錢很少。第二個，你告訴我要給你一點時間，我都願意，所以我請你們把你們的方案拿出來，審預算之前，請你把你的方案拿出來，沒有那種沒有方案的……"],["郭部長智輝：有啦！我們還是有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就來一個4年5億，就來一個368個城市評比，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有、沒有，我們都有方案在裡面。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請你把方案拿出來，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久時間給本席？沒有方案我們怎麼審預算？"],["郭部長智輝：我們在當天的記者會都有說明得很清楚了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：來，請教方案什麼時候可以給本席？"],["郭部長智輝：可以啦，我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼時候？"],["主席：好，一個禮拜給楊瓊瓔委員。"],["郭部長智輝：好的。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我最後告訴部長，一個禮拜內把方案給本席，但是我也要為我們中小企業來請命，誠如部長所說的，4年5億對我們的中小企業是不夠的啦！對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有啦，辦這個活動是5億。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，是不夠的，所以你務必想辦法，看要怎麼樣讓我們中小企業可以活絡起來。預算方面，我想憑你的能量絕對可以再增加，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：加油！"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["主席：請陳亭妃委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-17","speakers":["呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","林月琴","蔡易餘","黃國昌","牛煦庭","陳超明","鍾佳濱","何欣純","葉元之","林倩綺","洪孟楷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00012"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}