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什麼通盤檢討?對,因為他跟其他… 你就承補助就好,你都要用檢討。錢的問題你不用檢討啦,你就照規定,你就幫我報告嘛。不過因為他有一些原則,我們增加多少錢,我們來看一下… 那你為什麼會覺得"},{"start":336.417,"end":356.293,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審"},{"start":359.087,"end":363.19,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":387.677,"end":389.518,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":405.234,"end":432.632,"text":"已經算算算是等30分也實在太久了啦但至少10分到30分這還有改善空間嘛你西北地區你等你等那個一小時一班的這不合理啦另外啦到高鐵K8的所在啦你要在台南K8的所在你要坐那個專用公車到高格地站喔一小時一班啦"},{"start":435.031,"end":435.871,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":462.465,"end":463.746,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":481.619,"end":510.21,"text":"結果極少數有賺錢的路線以外,很多基本上都是屬於補助啦。你不靠補助根本沒有辦法經營啦。它其實也算是我們社會服務或社會福利的一部分啦。啊你既然要做,你就做到讓它產生一定的方便性啦。像你這樣的要補助,要補助好像不補助。啊你做這個給補助當然沒人去啊。那你形同浪費。"},{"start":511.91,"end":512.094,"text":"所以"},{"start":513.393,"end":537.866,"text":"我們就以最簡單的等車時間來算至少都不能超過20分鐘以這樣的原則來進行計算補助我們把他拉到20分鐘比較合理好不好我們把他拉到20分鐘這樣比較合理好 謝謝部長 交通局聽到了 你們還要再找理由我們整個規劃以後再跟那個委員報告因為他就是我們把需求調查然後規劃方式謝謝喔 謝謝部長 謝謝局長 謝謝主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":159,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（9時38分）謝謝主席，本席邀請交通部陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：部長好。部長，機場公司在不在？臺灣英雄回國，造成機場大亂，這個事情你應該知道吧？"],["陳部長世凱：是，當然。"],["林委員俊憲：那你要怎麼處理？你要知道，我們機場是有嚴格管制的。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個是管制區裡面，他們未經同意這樣拍照就不對；第二，未經同意在國家運動員回國的時候拉布條做宣傳，這更不對。我有講過，就是國家的運動員不是讓特定廠商拿來做為廣告的工具或者是道具，所以這個部分，第一，未來如果有類似國家的喜事……"],["林委員俊憲：沒有未來，你要怎麼追究責任？"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分跟委員報告……"],["林委員俊憲：講一講就算了？"],["陳部長世凱：第一，桃機必須要檢討這次所發生的事件我們內部管理的問題；第二，針對采盟，我們必須要做裁罰，要讓這間公司知道未來類似的狀況底下不可以做這樣子的動作。"],["林委員俊憲：桃機管理實在是很沒有水準，這在管制區裡面，還有副總統的維安問題。副總統的維安是誰支援？是機場保全還是航警局？你怎麼可以讓一大堆人在那邊，場面一片大亂。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，應該是他們的特勤跟航警一起。"],["林委員俊憲：還有航警嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：對，還有航警。"],["林委員俊憲：航警一定是支援他，你看現場一片大亂，同時你要知道，剛剛部長講到是管制區，管制區誰可以進去？一般人進去必須要有一個通行的工作證，所以你看這些免稅店的員工，每個當然都有工作證才可以在裡面。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒有錯。"],["林委員俊憲：但是有工作證不是就可以亂來，我們裡面規定得很清楚，通行工作證有一個管理規定，如果從事與職務不符的活動，造成不良後果者，你會給他停止使用1個月到3個月。你們既然有規定、有辦法，就應該去追究責任嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這一定要追究責任，而且必須要有裁罰，因為采盟公司在活動辦理之前，也就是我們國家的英雄要回國之前，其實大家都有溝通好，應該要在他們自己的店門口夾道歡迎就好，但是他們不照原本的規定跟規劃就衝出來，這個動作必然要裁罰，也會裁罰。"],["林委員俊憲：好。另外，部長，本席要跟你陳情一件事情，也希望交通部能夠支持，就是臺南公車的營運問題，在所有的公車補助裡面，六都就臺南市最少，在六都裡面，臺南市的面積是第二大，臺南市的地形就是南北很狹長，南北非常長。我用補助的金額來讓部長當參考，第一個，按照規定，如果不用多，按照中央移撥的路線，規定最多可以補助到85%，現在移撥路線的總支出是3億2,900萬，如果補助85%，可以補助到兩億八左右，但目前中央的補助只有1億2,800萬，落差有1億5,000萬，都是市政府負擔，地方負擔實在是受不了了。中央最多可以補助到85%，但實際現在補助的差不多四成而已，為什麼呢？因為之前有一個莫名其妙的規定，就是補助不能超過前一年，而前一年的標準是訂在102年，102年是十幾年前了，十幾年前的薪資，甚至油的價錢，物價跟現在差那麼多，這樣的差額是不是請中央來給我們補足？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，公共運輸的推廣，對中央來說是個很重要的政策，當然臺南我覺得進度稍稍有落後，若需要中央幫忙，中央一定全力幫忙，不過您剛剛所提到的這個細節，我是不是請局長看怎麼協助？"],["陳局長文瑞：跟委員報告，因為移撥路線以前是公路局的公路客運，後來移撥到地方，像直轄市的……"],["林委員俊憲：對，你要補助給我們，我們替你做，你卻沒給錢。"],["陳局長文瑞：因為移撥給六都的時候，比如當初我們自己補貼給業者是多少錢，移撥過去的時候也是補貼多少錢給各直轄市，也希望各直轄市在整個移撥之後，營運的效率不要掉下來。"],["林委員俊憲：我們也不要多，你就照規定，最高可以到85%，可以補助到兩億八，你卻補助我們差不多一億三，差了一億五。"],["陳局長文瑞：我們通盤來檢討，因為他跟其他六都的直轄市……"],["林委員俊憲：什麼通盤檢討？你補助錢就好了，還要檢討？錢的問題，不用檢討，你就照規定補足。"],["陳局長文瑞：不過因為有一些原則，增加多少錢，我們來看一下整個公運計畫……"],["林委員俊憲：你為什麼會覺得有效率的問題呢？我給部長參考，這個就是惡性循環的問題，因為臺南南北狹長，曾文溪以北、溪北地區有些幹線離重要的商業活動或者是高鐵很遠，而公路局移撥的幹線，像溪北有幾條路線的班次都很少，部長認為等一臺公車等多久是合理的？"],["陳部長世凱：其實我之前成長的過程在臺北，5到10分鐘算是比較正常的狀態。"],["林委員俊憲：溪北地區要等一個小時，比較快也要等30分鐘，要等一個小時的公車誰要坐？所以再怎麼看也覺得運量不高，公車一個小時才一班，有誰願意去搭？你看臺南變成兩個地方了，溪北、溪南差很多，溪南是10分到30分，等30分也實在太久了，至少10分到30分還有改善空間嘛？"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["林委員俊憲：溪北地區等一個小時一班，這不合理！另外到高鐵，如果你要在臺南溪北地區坐專用公車到高鐵站，一個小時才一班，有人要坐嗎？我認為溪北到高鐵差不多20分一班，合理嗎？陳局長。"],["陳局長文瑞：我們來……"],["林委員俊憲：你不要再檢討，不要亂講話，不合理就是不合理，你有什麼好講的？一個小時等一班，這種公車當然沒人坐，是不是這樣？你看溪南也是20分一班！"],["陳部長世凱：我們跟業者來溝通，班次上如果有需要增加，我們就來增加，因為這個確實是太久，就讓大家搭乘的意願低。如果是60分鐘一班，對他來講，一定會選擇其他運具……可以拉近。"],["林委員俊憲：公車在臺灣除了極少數有賺錢的路線以外，很多基本上都是屬於補助，不靠補助根本沒有辦法經營。"],["陳部長世凱：這個補助中央會來協助。"],["林委員俊憲：它其實也算是社會服務、社會福利的一部分，既然要做就做到讓它產生一定的方便性，像這樣要補助又好像不補助，你做這個服務當然沒人使用，形同浪費，所以我們就以最簡單的等車時間來算，至少都不能超過20分鐘，以這樣原則來計算補助，這樣好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：我們把它拉到20分鐘比較合理。"],["林委員俊憲：好，謝謝部長。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝。"],["林委員俊憲：局長有聽到吧？你不要又在那邊找理由，我跟你說，部長有答應，你現在……"],["陳局長文瑞：我知道，我們整個規劃以後再跟委員報告。我們就是把需求調查，然後規劃班次。"],["林委員俊憲：好，感謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["林委員俊憲：謝謝部長，謝謝局長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝林俊憲委員。","接下來邀請林國成委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":390,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-11","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林俊憲","林國成","許智傑","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","游顥","徐富癸","蔡其昌","邱若華","魯明哲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","麥玉珍","李昆澤","吳宗憲","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","葉元之","陳雪生","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","林月琴","陳俊宇","林倩綺","王鴻薇","羅智強","張雅琳"],"page_start":309,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部單位預算；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關\n於交通部中央氣象署單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部公路局及所屬單\n位預算；四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業\n基金─國道公路建設管理基金分預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00013"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}