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11月20號同樣地點在這裡質詢你"},{"start":68.618,"end":96.059,"text":"部長也跟我說,有,我們一定會妥善準備,陶吉很有經驗。我出發前提醒,結果反國後者,這結果呢?黃金之亂。還不是只有黃金之亂而已。沿路的動線是亂七八糟。人潮遠遠超過於你們的預期。我之前就提醒你了,一定會萬人空巷。會很熱情地去接機。"},{"start":97.81,"end":126.902,"text":"那剛剛部長回答其他委員說來要求陶基檢討出來檢討第二個究責這個管理機制剛剛其他委員也說太爛了第二個黃金之亂我們看到剛剛剛剛即時新聞彩萌又發了一個聲明稿他要捐三千萬出來分五年要援助資助這個偏鄉青少年的棒球發展"},{"start":127.981,"end":144.784,"text":"那部長這個你說要對採盲要懲處要怎麼懲處我是不是先請部長你自己深自檢討我們淘機這樣子的一個表現幾分不要說不及格比不及格還不及格啊"},{"start":145.407,"end":165.921,"text":"報告委員您說不及格齁那應該就是大家對於這件事情是不滿意的啦齁那這件事情呢其實淘機公司我當時也有要求一定要跟體育署還有就是職棒聯盟這邊協調好協商好整個這個回國之後的整個動線的規劃好你這個你上次有提到沒錯好那我問淘機嘛你們開會了沒"},{"start":167.162,"end":193.783,"text":"你們事前有沒有開會?報告委員,我想相關的積極活動除了事前的協調、規劃甚至每一個定點哪一些位置比如說拍照地點在哪裡哪些單位那下一個環節是哪些單位要負責?你們開了幾次會?現刊都有來現刊幾次?現刊應該有兩次現刊兩次跟哪些單位一起合作現刊?"},{"start":194.522,"end":201.626,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":216.073,"end":229.181,"text":"甚至呢也沒有預期到光是在你們管制區裡面的這些免稅店的人員他都可以在裡面跑來跑過去可以蹭來蹭過去甚至可以馬上衝到副總統的席位這何等的離譜的事啊你還說你們有現勘管制區內你都管制不了了你都管理不了了"},{"start":241.544,"end":260.195,"text":"不是嗎?那我們從媒體的報導裡面就可以看得很清楚因為呢幾乎人人包括來接機的人人一支手機都在直播我們看現場台灣隊的隊長他還要到處的在找他的老婆跟小孩跑到哪裡去了你怎麼處理成這個樣子啊你說兩次現刊來誰主持的"},{"start":272.213,"end":282.622,"text":"誰主持的?包委員這個是各單位一起共同來現刊哪些單位派了誰來?成績夠高嗎?有經驗嗎?哪些單位?你剛跟我講體育署是誰來?你們淘機是誰去?那國安人員、特勤人員包括航警局又是誰去?包委員系部的部分可能我們...所以你也不知道?"},{"start":299.69,"end":304.073,"text":"需要另外再整理再提供所以你也不知道?所以現堪不是你去嘛對不對?這麼重要的我事前提醒你了部長也在這個會議室裡面你們董事長也在這個會議室裡面告訴大家我們準備好了我們非常有經驗就總經理你連現堪都不是你去啊"},{"start":325.885,"end":335.733,"text":"裡面哪些單位參與現刊包括動線包括哪一個是拍照點包括哪一個是歡迎點包括怎樣怎樣怎樣你都不知道"},{"start":339.635,"end":355.502,"text":"包委員我們是有相關的規劃剛剛所提到這些的點總經理部長你聽看如果你有相關的規劃你的規劃配套是完是完善的是完整的你今天會出那麼大的皮肉嗎跟那麼離譜的事嗎整個淘機都是人欸我之前就提醒過你了我本來今天真的是覺得很"},{"start":368.818,"end":390.814,"text":"桃機是我們的門面欸桃機這個確實是要檢討啦齁那整個過程當中他們也是在11月22號有收到體育署的來函希望哪裡做照相區哪裡做等候區那哪裡要做接駁巴士區都有規劃桃機是誰在管真正桃機的管理者叫桃機公司是交通部"},{"start":392.694,"end":421.328,"text":"你說體育署它也是主責單位體育署是負責把台灣隊帶回來然後呢體育署可能聯絡總統府的副總統要來接機我們教育部體育署要好好的來安排那問題是在地最了解機場最知道機場的動線最知道機場的區域該怎麼配置最知道接機區域到底有多大是誰"},{"start":422.962,"end":441.619,"text":"機場公司欸是機場公司欸而且他剛剛回答其他委員說有啦我們有跟免稅店都有事先約束過啦要求他們要怎樣怎樣阿阿現在都沒有照你預定的計畫在做欸"},{"start":443.737,"end":444.978,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算。"},{"start":458.1,"end":483.991,"text":"大家當然要共同承擔責任但是您剛剛所提到那些懲處確實不在交通部那也不是交通部來負責我必須要說的是彩萌這間公司沒有照原本的規劃跟預定的地點自己未經同意出來做拍照的動作並且他們未經同意拉了廣告布條這些都是非常錯誤的動作那這個部分我也要求淘氣公司必須對彩萌公司來做懲罰做懲處甚至是做裁罰"},{"start":486.472,"end":512.842,"text":"這個部分一定都會做那淘機公司內部要不要檢討當然要檢討檢討完之後到底誰該負責或者是應該做什麼樣的懲處後續一定要做結論我是再一次提醒部長啦淘機的管理或是淘機的公司治理文化一件又一件一次又一次啦要不要下定決心好好的大刀闊斧的"},{"start":514.144,"end":529.578,"text":"改革、革新這個當然是部長怎麼跟陶基好好的來討論啦但是呢今天這一次台灣隊回國我再強調一次喔不是只有黃金之亂"},{"start":531.099,"end":548.773,"text":"現在大家都聚焦在一個黃金之亂可是部長你再從頭回想從台灣隊一下機進管制區到管制區之外沿途的動線包括連出關都有問題還有到了"},{"start":553.636,"end":563.87,"text":"繼機區的時候滿滿都是人那整個的管理整個的動線的一個妥善的配套措施我們真的都沒有看到這個是不應該非常不應該而且我剛剛講的"},{"start":570.029,"end":596.284,"text":"我事先提醒你們告訴我要開會告訴我要協調結果問了沒有開會沒有協調只有兩次現勘兩次現勘是哪些單位來現勘也還講不清楚哪些人來參與現勘也講不清楚那我當然知道就淘機或者是交通部的立場你不可能去管到國安特勤人員但是你們明知道副總統要來"},{"start":597.805,"end":623.021,"text":"有國安特勤的一個維安動線你們就應該要好好的協調跟反映你看你讓我們管制區裡面的人原來誰都可以來蹭誰都可以來擠C位誰都你自己看照片就好了沿途都是不管是入出境的其他我們台灣的國人也好或者是外國觀光客也好"},{"start":624.226,"end":645.794,"text":"很多你們完全沒有管制完全沒有管理完全沒有動線所謂的配套我記得媒體還有曾經拿過日本隊回日本他們的動線是如何的暢通而且呢是有個人空間的又對比到台灣隊回來台灣的桃園機場台灣隊的球員進來回國的時候"},{"start":653.168,"end":665.283,"text":"我本來應該是非常光榮的回國沒錯啦可是那個動線跟混亂啊讓人家覺得是不是在逃難啊對不對本來是一件歡欣國舞舉國歡騰的一件事啊怎麼會把台灣對我們世界冠軍的台灣對回國搞成這個樣子"},{"start":673.255,"end":684.649,"text":"雖然我們還是很高興台灣奪得世界冠軍啊但是我們真的拜託我們部長要好好的處理這件事啊該檢討要檢討該究責要究責我拜託請"},{"start":688.61,"end":715.901,"text":"三天內可不可以有一個檢討報告讓國人知道三天內好不好我們希望你是痛定思痛的檢討你是痛定思痛的去把所有該做的配套還有所有該做的應該都要做到位的通通要檢討好不好拜託這個是國人期待也是要對國人交代當然謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":346,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（10時10分）謝謝召委素月委員。我們請部長，還有桃機。"],["主席：請陳部長、桃機總經理。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["何委員欣純：部長，我用很沉重的心情來進行今天的質詢。你記不記得在臺灣隊要出發之前我就提醒過你？"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["何委員欣純：我們預期臺灣隊一定可以贏；而贏了，自然舉國歡騰。然後我還問你，有沒有責成桃機好好妥善規劃臺灣隊回國的接機動線跟配套？那時候桃機董事長跟總經理同樣站在你旁邊，還跟我說「已經準備好了，有萬全的準備，我們非常有經驗，一定會趕快來開會協調，絕對萬無一失。」部長還記得嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：是，我記得。"],["何委員欣純：11月20日，我在同樣地點質詢你，你也跟我說「有，一定會妥善準備，桃機很有經驗」，我出發前還提醒。結果返國後發生了黃巾之亂！還不是只有黃巾之亂而已，沿路動線亂七八糟，人潮遠遠超過於你們的預期！我之前就提醒你了，一定會萬人空巷，大家會很熱情去接機。剛剛部長回答其他委員說，要求桃機檢討，但除了檢討外，第二個就是究責！剛剛其他委員也說管理機制太爛了！","其次，針對黃巾之亂，這是剛剛的即時新聞，采盟又發了一個聲明稿說要捐3,000萬，分五年資助偏鄉青少年棒球發展。部長，你說要對采盟懲處，請問要怎麼懲處？我要先請部長自己深自檢討，這次桃機這樣的表現，幾分？不要說不及格，我認為比不及格還不及格！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，您說不及格，所以大家對於這件事情應該是不滿意的！其實我當時也有要求桃機公司一定要跟體育署及職棒聯盟協調好、協商好整個回國之後的動線規劃……"],["何委員欣純：好，這個你上次有提到，沒錯。"],["陳部長世凱：對，確實……"],["何委員欣純：那我就要問桃機，你們開會了沒？你們事前有沒有開會？"],["范總經理孝倫：是，報告委員，我想相關的接機活動，除了事前的協調規劃，甚至每一個定點、哪一些位置，比如說拍照地點在哪裡、哪些單位，下一個環節是哪些單位要負責，這個事前都有……"],["何委員欣純：你們開了幾次會？"],["范總經理孝倫：現勘都有來……"],["何委員欣純：現勘幾次？"],["范總經理孝倫：現勘應該有兩次。"],["何委員欣純：現勘兩次？跟哪些單位一起合作現勘？"],["范總經理孝倫：就是我們場內的有關單位，還有包含像體育署，甚至因為副總統要來，所以也包含特勤單位。"],["何委員欣純：如果有兩次的現勘，因為有兩次現勘，所以沒有開其他的協調會，所以沒有把其他可能有的因應狀況事前沙盤演練，甚至也沒有預期到，光是在你們管制區裡面的這些免稅店的人員，他都可以在裡面跑來跑過去，可以蹭來蹭去，甚至可以馬上衝到副總統的C位，這是何等離譜的事啊！你還說你們有現勘，管制區內你都管制不了了，你都管理不了了，不是嗎？","來，我們從媒體的報導裡面就可以看得很清楚，因為幾乎人人，包括來接機的人，人人一支手機都在直播，我們看到現場，臺灣隊的隊長，他還要到處在找他的老婆跟小孩跑到哪裡去了，你怎麼處理成這個樣子啊！你說兩次現勘，誰主持的？誰主持的？"],["范總經理孝倫：報告委員，這個是各單位一起共同來現勘啦。"],["何委員欣純：誰主持啊？各單位一起來現勘，哪些單位派了誰來？層級夠高嗎？有經驗嗎？哪些單位？你剛剛跟我講體育署是誰來？你們桃機是誰去？國安人員、特勤人員，包括航警局又是誰去？"],["范總經理孝倫：報告委員，細部的部分可能我們……"],["何委員欣純：所以你也不知道？"],["范總經理孝倫：需要另外再整理、再提供。"],["何委員欣純：所以你也不知道，所以現勘不是你去嘛，對不對？"],["范總經理孝倫：是。"],["何委員欣純：這麼重要的事情，我事前也提醒你了，部長也在這個會議室裡面拍胸脯保證說沒問題，你們董事長也在這個會議室裡面告訴大家「我們準備好了，我們非常有經驗」，結果總經理，你連現勘都不是你去啊，你連哪些單位參與現勘，包括動線，包括哪一個是拍照點，包括哪一個是歡迎點，包括怎樣、怎樣、怎樣，你都不知道。"],["范總經理孝倫：報告委員，我們是有相關的規劃，剛剛所提到這些的點……"],["何委員欣純：總經理！部長，你聽看看，如果你有相關的規劃，你的規劃配套是完善的、是完整的，你今天會出那麼大的紕漏跟那麼離譜的事嗎？整個桃機都是人耶！我之前就提醒過你了，我本來今天真的是覺得很……","唉！桃機是我們的門面耶。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，桃機這一次確實是要檢討啦，整個過程當中，他們也在11月22號有收到體育署的來函，希望哪裡做照相區、哪裡做等候區、哪裡要做接駁巴士區都有規劃……"],["何委員欣純：部長，我請問你，桃機是誰在管？桃機的管理者叫桃機公司，是交通部！"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["何委員欣純：你說體育署也是主責單位，但體育署是負責把臺灣隊帶回來，然後體育署可能聯絡總統府，副總統要來接機，我們教育部體育署要好好的來安排，但問題是，在地最了解機場，最知道機場的動線，最知道機場的區域該怎麼配置，最知道接機區到底有多大的是誰？機場公司耶，是機場公司耶！而且他剛剛回答其他委員說「有啦，我們有跟免稅店都有事先約束過，要求他們要怎樣、怎樣」，但現在都沒有照你預定的計畫在做耶，你說懲處，你能怎麼懲處？你能懲處航警局嗎？你能懲處國安特勤人員嗎？你能懲處體育署嗎？你們要共同承擔責任嗎？部長。"],["陳部長世凱：大家當然要共同承擔責任，但是您剛剛所提到那些懲處確實不在交通部，那也不是交通部來負責……"],["何委員欣純：那你要去反映啊。"],["陳部長世凱：但我必須要說的是，采盟這間公司沒有照原本的規劃跟預定的地點，自己未經同意出來做拍照的動作，並且他們未經同意拉了廣告布條，這些都是非常錯誤的動作，這個部分我也要求桃機公司必須對采盟公司來做懲罰、做懲處，甚至是做裁罰，這個部分一定都會做。至於桃機公司內部要不要檢討，當然要檢討！檢討完之後到底誰該負責，或者是應該做什麼樣的懲處，後續一定要做結論。"],["何委員欣純：我是再次提醒部長啦，桃機的管理或是桃機的公司治理文化，一件又一件、一次又一次啦，要不要下定決心，好好的大刀闊斧去做改革、革新，這個當然是部長怎麼跟桃機好好的來討論啦，但是呢，今天這一次臺灣隊回國，我再強調一次，不是只有黃巾之亂，現在大家都聚焦在一個黃巾之亂，可是部長你再從頭回想，從臺灣隊一下機進管制區，到管制區之外，沿途的動線，包括連出關都有問題，還有到了接機區的時候，滿滿都是人，整個管理、整個動線的妥善配套措施，我們真的都沒有看到！這個是不應該，非常不應該！而且我剛剛講了，我事先提醒過，你們告訴我有要開會，告訴我要協調，結果我問了，沒有開會，沒有協調，只有兩次現勘，兩次現勘是哪些單位來現勘，也還講不清楚！哪些人來參與現勘，也講不清楚！我當然知道，就桃機或者交通部的立場，你不可能去管到國安特勤人員，但是你們明知道副總統要來，有國安特勤的維安動線，你們就應該要好好的協調跟反映。你看你讓我們管制區裡面的人，原來誰都可以來蹭，誰都可以來擠C位，誰都……","你自己看照片就好了，沿途都是，不管是入出境的其他我們臺灣的國人也好，或者是外國觀光客也好，很多你們完全沒有管制，完全沒有管理，完全沒有動線，也沒有所謂的配套。我記得媒體還曾經報導過日本隊回日本，他們的動線是如何的暢通，而且是有個人空間的，又對比到臺灣隊回來臺灣的桃園機場，臺灣隊的球員回國的時候，本來應該是非常光榮的回國沒錯啦，可是那個動線跟混亂，讓人家覺得是不是在逃難啊，對不對？本來是歡欣鼓舞、舉國歡騰的一件事，怎麼會把臺灣隊，世界冠軍的臺灣隊回國搞成這個樣子？雖然我們還是很高興臺灣奪得世界冠軍，但是我們真的拜託部長要好好的處理這件事，該檢討就要檢討，該究責就要究責，我拜託請你在三天內可不可以有一個檢討報告讓國人知道。"],["陳部長世凱：是，三天之內提出檢討報告給委員。"],["何委員欣純：三天內，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["何委員欣純：我們希望你是痛定思痛的檢討，你是痛定思痛的去把所有該做的配套，還有所有該做的應該都要做到位的，統統要檢討，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["何委員欣純：拜託！這個是國人的期待，也是要對國人交代。"],["陳部長世凱：當然，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝何欣純委員。","本席在這邊宣告：等一下在本席質詢完之後要處理臨時提案，處理臨時提案後休息10分鐘，謝謝。"],["主席（何委員欣純代）：接下來質詢的是陳素月召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":390,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-11","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林俊憲","林國成","許智傑","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","游顥","徐富癸","蔡其昌","邱若華","魯明哲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","麥玉珍","李昆澤","吳宗憲","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","葉元之","陳雪生","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","林月琴","陳俊宇","林倩綺","王鴻薇","羅智強","張雅琳"],"page_start":309,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部單位預算；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關\n於交通部中央氣象署單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部公路局及所屬單\n位預算；四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業\n基金─國道公路建設管理基金分預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00013"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}