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謝謝委員指導我們會以委員指導的方向來推動未來無自來水地區的工作的改善那事實上在這一次行政院新通過的自來水地區供水改善計畫第5期裡面特別對原住民地區"},{"start":160.31,"end":180.281,"text":"包括如何去提升改善的部分本來每戶的這個成本那也獲得行政院的核定會大幅的這個提高每戶的成本合列的這個比例我知道這個有增加這個每戶的成本好那個講到這個部分一算書"},{"start":182.014,"end":208.829,"text":"預算書還是要實際上在執行的時候水利署在執行的時候是用原住民族部落是用原住民族部落所以還是要用預算書還是要把它寫清楚這個像我們114年度的預算書是寫原住民族第1期還是要把它改成原住民族部落這沒有問題吧因為你們執行就是這樣執行的嘛"},{"start":209.623,"end":221.582,"text":"跟委員說明無自來水地區供水改善計畫到最新的第5期我們一直是使用包括全國的無自來水地區的這個名稱"},{"start":222.95,"end":245.43,"text":"那特別在原住民地區因為他有一些的部落或是有一些的民眾他居住的地方他不一定是屬於說是聚合型的所以我們在我們的預算案裡面包括我們的計畫書裡面都用原住民地區的這個名稱來呈現這是第一個那第二個部分的話其實在大法官也有解釋啦"},{"start":246.611,"end":272.108,"text":"相關的這個預算案跟法律案畢竟是不同那因為我們過去所提的預算書全部都是用包括原住民地區的這個名稱那也依此沿用到第5期這個部分跟委員做一個說明這個因為正好是第5期新的一期新的一期而且我在部長也知道我也諮詢過行政院院長我也諮詢過行政院院長"},{"start":275.818,"end":285.706,"text":"實際上你們在執行適用部落,所以這個部落沒有問題,應該要改。我們會持續改善原住民地區的,我們預算審查的時候再討論。我們希望說一直提高原來沒有自來水,然後它可以有自來水或是簡易自來水的使用。"},{"start":299.175,"end":323.761,"text":"包括這個中央管流域整體及改善與調適計劃這個部分也是一樣這個也應該把這個原住民族地區改為原住民族部落這個部分預算審查的時候我們再好好討論所以這個部分那另外這個我先請那個水利署這4年來"},{"start":328.363,"end":352.545,"text":"這過去的4年在花蓮 花蓮縣就對那個像烈士堤防這樣的工程到底你們做了哪些提供給我素面資料好沒有問題好那另外這個常常發生的這個台11縣的花蓮大橋花蓮大橋然後往業美部落的193縣"},{"start":354.224,"end":354.566,"text":"193縣每一次颱風就會攤方"},{"start":359.106,"end":386.455,"text":"貪方,貪方有兩個狀況一個是從山上貪下來另外一個狀況就是從193線馬路貪到這個河流貪到這個河流,花蓮溪所以這個部分呢這個地方政府一切的反應這個不能只有災害的時候然後去拿災害準備金然後縣政府去做這個道路的一個復建"},{"start":389.451,"end":415.683,"text":"沿途有兩個地方一個不是你們的山上另外一個沿途有關係的就是河流河流花蓮溪的部分所以這個部分你們再去實際的跟縣政府瞭解應該怎麼去改善好不好 署長這個我們在未來進行的這個河道的輸進包括治理工程的部分我們會透過跨機關來協力"},{"start":419.073,"end":422.877,"text":"好接下來這個114年度這跟隨時沒有關係了這個科技專案的經費這個114年度234億7950萬2000元比這個113年度217億4800"},{"start":444.099,"end":444.759,"text":"財政委員委員會主席"},{"start":467.827,"end":481.632,"text":"發言委員：鄭天財Sra Kacaw發言委員．鄭天財Sra Kacaw發言委員．鄭天財Sra Kacaw發言委員．鄭天財Sra Kacaw發言委員．鄭天財Sra Kacaw"},{"start":497.629,"end":500.39,"text":"這個234億里面對國內團體之建築就高達222億5519萬這個額度是相當的高這個當然部長剛來我們利用這個機會也請這個產業發展師"},{"start":525.849,"end":548.15,"text":"那個是技術師技術師你是技術師但是預算邊內是在另外一個師啊是不是預算書啊還是預算書寫錯科技科技預算大部分都是邊在產業技術師好好好沒有錯吧產業產業產業沒有錯我看到預算書沒有錯啊好所以這個部分呢"},{"start":549.102,"end":556.272,"text":"是不是這四年來的執行的一個情形也提供素面資料給我?好,謝謝。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":549,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時35分）主席、各位委員，有請部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：也請水利署。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：首先要謝謝經濟部還有水利署在0918地震的時候經過本席質詢，提報行政院增列花東基金，現在這個計畫到今年年底，最近又有兩個部落在春日那邊願意接自來水，所以這個部分還請水利署跟自來水公司積極辦理。","這些相關新的，也就是114年度開始的「無自來水地區供水改善計畫第五期」，謝謝經濟部水利署提報新的第五期計畫，總共建設經費為96.5億，自來水公司事業預算為6.5億，花東基金有3億，總共是106億。現在要特別請經濟部水利署針對明年開始的第五期計畫，花東基金的部分是作為增加差額的部分，所以不能去減少原來的比例，這整個「無自來水地區供水改善計畫」，在花蓮、臺東原來的那個比例不能減少，不能因為有了花東基金就減了那邊的預算，署長可以嗎？"],["賴署長建信：謝謝委員的指導，我們會以委員指導的方向推動未來無自來水地區工作的改善，事實上這次行政院新通過的自來水地區供水改善計畫第五期裡面，特別對原住民地區，包括如何去提升改善的部分，本來每戶的成本也獲得行政院的核定，會大幅地提高每戶成本核列的金額。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我知道，那個有增加每戶的成本。講到這個部分，預算書還是要……水利署在執行的時候，是用「原住民族部落」，所以預算書還是要把它寫清楚，像114年度的預算書寫的就是「原住民族地區」，所以還是要把它改成「原住民族部落」，這個沒問題吧？因為你們在執行的時候就是這樣執行的嘛！"],["賴署長建信：跟委員說明，無自來水地區供水改善計畫到最新的第五期，我們一直是使用全國的無自來水地區的名稱，特別在原住民地區，因為它有一些部落或是有一些民眾居住的地方不一定是屬於聚合型的，所以在我們的預算案裡面，包括我們的計畫書裡面都是用「原住民地區」的名稱來呈現，這是第一個。","第二個部分，其實大法官也有解釋，相關的預算案跟法律案畢竟是不同，因為我們過去所提的預算書全部都是還用……包括「原住民地區」這個名稱，也一直延用到第五期，這個部分就跟委員做個說明。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為第五期正好是新的一期，而且部長也知道，我也質詢過行政院院長，實際上你們在執行的時候是用「部落」，所以這個部分應該沒有問題，應該可以改。"],["賴署長建信：委員，我們會持續地改善原住民地區的……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們等預算審查的時候再討論。"],["賴署長建信：我們希望一直提高它的……原來沒有自來水，然後現在都有……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對、對，我知道，我瞭解你們都在盡力了。包括「中央管流域整體改善與調適計畫」這個部分也是一樣，也應該把「原住民族地區」，改為「原住民族部落」，這個部分到預算審查的時候我們再好好討論，這是這個部分。","另外，我先請水利署，過去這4年來，花蓮縣類似堤防的工程，到底你們做了哪些？請提供給我書面資料。"],["賴署長建信：好，沒有問題。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：另外這個是常常發生的。這個台11線的花蓮大橋往月眉部落的193縣道，每一次颱風就會坍方，坍方有兩種狀況，一種是從山上坍下來的，另外一個狀況就是，從193縣道的馬路坍到河流（花蓮溪），所以這個部分地方政府一再地反映，不能只有在災害的時候去拿災害準備金，然後縣政府去做道路的復健。源頭有兩個地方，一個不是你們的而是在山上，另外一個源頭有關係的就是河流，也就是花蓮溪的部分，所以這個部分你們再實際去跟縣政府瞭解應該怎麼改善，好不好？署長。"],["賴署長建信：好，我們未來進行河道的疏浚，包括治理工程的部分，我們會透過跨機關協力。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好。接下來，114年度的這個跟水利署沒有關係了，這個科技專案的經費114年度是234億7,950萬2,000元，比113年度的217億8,136萬元，增加16億9,814萬2,000元，如果對比到112年度的決算162億6,985萬元的話，等於114年度又比增加的這個16億更多了，所以過去執行的狀況到底成效……然後因為你們的那個編列，幾乎都是對國內團體之捐助，這個額度在整個科技專案234億裡面，對國內團體之捐助就高達222億5,519萬，這個額度是相當地高。當然部長剛來，我們就利用這個機會，也請產業發展司嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：技術司。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你是技術司？預算編列是在另外一個司，是不是？我是說預算書。還是預算書寫錯？"],["邱司長求慧：科技預算大部分都是在編在產業技術司裡面。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，沒有錯吧？是在產業……"],["邱司長求慧：產業技術司。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我看的預算書沒有錯，所以這4年來執行的情形是不是也提供書面資料給我？好，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席（鄭委員正鈐代）：謝謝鄭天財委員。","接下來我們請呂玉玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-17","speakers":["呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","林月琴","蔡易餘","黃國昌","牛煦庭","陳超明","鍾佳濱","何欣純","葉元之","林倩綺","洪孟楷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00012"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}