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知道這一些錢都來自人民的稅金（那所以說假如放兩年賠（"},{"start":86.234,"end":88.215,"text":"市長,您是產業的專家,這樣子的論點應該是不成熟的,是嗎?"},{"start":106.711,"end":109.294,"text":"市長,你是三集來行的,因為你長這邊,整個通盤還是一樣漲。"},{"start":125.572,"end":128.374,"text":"臺電我們現在在折騰臺電在財務上要去做一些改善第一個譬如說"},{"start":145.188,"end":145.909,"text":"市長您現在回答的這兩項"},{"start":167.483,"end":168.604,"text":"我們既然希望這樣子的撥補那部長也說過了"},{"start":185.776,"end":203.974,"text":"如果波普兩年內臺電的這個財務還沒有改善那變成他是管理不善他應當要走人那我解讀的是說如果真給換句話說明年不會漲電價是不是如此"},{"start":205.152,"end":229.908,"text":"是不是如此?市長,董事長還在這邊喔所以每一次問到這個大家都推給電價審議委員會如果要撥補就說我是因為以前的名聲我把民眾的名義告訴你我們希望能夠以真正照顧民眾"},{"start":231.189,"end":232.33,"text":"的權益為基準。"},{"start":261.429,"end":262.39,"text":"在這樣的情況之下請教次長（"},{"start":288.371,"end":306.182,"text":"日本南韓他們都這麼做了他們都這麼做了也就是官方全部動起來那針對於通膨、薪資挑戰、半導體以及AI產業的一個發展我們準備要做怎麼樣的帶領台灣繼續往前衝"},{"start":310.543,"end":310.823,"text":"所以等於是4年後"},{"start":326.657,"end":327.337,"text":"本席似乎都聽到穿越時空的答案"},{"start":351.38,"end":352.421,"text":"政府責任（政策來大撒幣（"},{"start":372.021,"end":372.401,"text":"部長哈謝謝"},{"start":403.003,"end":423.505,"text":"川普勝選重返白宮加上對加幣貨幣友善的候選人幾乎他進入到美國的國會那麼我們各界也預期加幣貨幣會在有利的監管環境中似乎這個方向是會蓬勃發展是不是啊依照您的看法"},{"start":426.065,"end":450.101,"text":"這部分有關加密貨幣的部分我們講這個金管會這個部分以及央行這個部分都會在做處理在做處理那換句話說包括近期比特幣價格飆升那也是預估是朝在有利的監管環境當中那麼加密貨幣會蓬勃發展"},{"start":451.522,"end":478.478,"text":"目前來說有關虛擬資產的部分目前來說在台灣並沒有把它認定為是貨幣而是把它認為是資產是一個資產那換句話說我們目前針對於加幣貨幣交易所只有營業稅跟營利事業所得稅嘛對不對這個部分因為它是資產所以它的交易也涉及到所得稅"},{"start":480.131,"end":497.677,"text":"對,所以那對於個人或者是法人在交易中獲利的部分我們要怎麼樣去明確的來克稅規範有沒有這個方向在眼裡這個部分依法還是根據我們的所得稅法裡面來做規範對"},{"start":500.182,"end":518.817,"text":"對,但是部長,到目前為止因為美國明年1月份一組入了美國的白宮那方向是如此那整個世界的潮流到底會怎麼樣那我方也應該要因應以對呀"},{"start":519.838,"end":532.567,"text":"因為貨幣是世界通的啊,資產也是世界通的啊那在就個人或者是法人的交易當中獲利的這個部分我們有沒有朝這個方向會有明確的課稅規範"},{"start":536.756,"end":560.807,"text":"會有的那你們現在在研擬大概會什麼時候會給社會大眾來說明呢我想這個請複製署署長來跟你們回答好嗎你告訴我時間點就好了報告委員因為我們現在加密貨幣的課稅是按照現行手續法規定那原則規定有的那細節的部分如果需要研定我們還有另外還有查核機制的部分我們一起來處理那"},{"start":561.687,"end":562.107,"text":"五立法委員質詢"},{"start":591.438,"end":592.741,"text":"我們到邱志偉委員就結束了,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:08:33+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:08:34+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:08:34+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:08:35+08:00","text":"楊瓊瓔發言，邀請經濟部次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-27T12:08:35+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:08:36+08:00","text":"請次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:08:36+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:08:37+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:08:34.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:08:38.942000+08:00","text":"次長好，我們再就能源政策來做討論。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:08:39.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:08:59.877000+08:00","text":"我的簡報上註解執政黨為了貫徹錯誤的能源政策，造成台電公司經營困難，同時行政院於5月2日通過行政院主計總處所編113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案裡，預計要再撥補台電1,000億協助台電永續經營。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:08:59.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:09:03.538000+08:00","text":"我們也看到，在114年度的預算裡頭，政府也編列了撥補1,000億公務預算，如果加上這2,000億的話，換句話說，還有之前的3,000億，等於到明年會有5,000億。","quality":0.464},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:09:17.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:09:56.973000+08:00","text":"因為我們在10月16號才漲電價，在這樣的情況之下，民眾都說被剝了兩層皮，一方面漲價，一方面用追加預算或公務預算來撥補之，因為大家都知道這些錢都來自人民的稅金，所以說一隻牛剝兩層皮，坊間是這麼樣認定的！","quality":0.67},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:09:57.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:01.215000+08:00","text":"但是本席還是認為，如果說靠漲電價、挖國庫才能夠救台電，次長，你是產業的專家，我願意相信這樣子的論點應該是不成熟的，是嗎？","quality":0.434},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:01.215000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:10.533500+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，沒有剝兩層皮啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:10.533500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:19.852000+08:00","text":"因為10月份這次漲的時候是只有產業那部分漲，民生或是表後的75%那一塊都沒有調漲。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:19.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:22.294000+08:00","text":"次長，你是產業的內行人，因為你漲這一邊，整個通膨還是一樣漲。","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:22.294000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:30.433000+08:00","text":"但是相對是少。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:30.433000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:38.572000+08:00","text":"所以本席要請教你，針對議題回答，如果靠漲電價以及挖國庫才能夠救台電，還有沒有其他的方法？","quality":0.025},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:38.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:39.553000+08:00","text":"我們現在也在責成台電在財務上……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:39.553000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:45.884667+08:00","text":"還有沒有其他的方法？","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:45.884667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:52.216333+08:00","text":"要去做一些改善，第一個是在本身節約方面，譬如燃料的價格在採購方面，看能不能做一些比較妥善的採購搭配。","quality":0.261},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:52.216333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:58.548000+08:00","text":"第二個就是有些資產重估的部分，看能不能有一些空間，所以我們目前……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:58.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:10:58.909000+08:00","text":"所以次長現在回答的這兩項都是不可能！","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:10:58.909000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:11:06.100333+08:00","text":"所以你語塞的說：看有沒有可能！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:11:06.100333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:11:13.291667+08:00","text":"本席告訴你是不可能！","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:11:13.291667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:11:20.483000+08:00","text":"沒有，當然還有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:11:20.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:11:48.165000+08:00","text":"所以本席要請教你，沒關係，我們既然希望這樣子的撥補，部長也說過了，如果撥補兩年內台電的財務還沒有改善，變成他是管理不善，他應當要走人。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:11:49.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:11:56.954000+08:00","text":"我的解讀是，如果真給，換句話說，明年不會漲電價，是不是如此？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:11:56.954000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:12:04.116000+08:00","text":"這個應該是由電價審議委員會來決定，我現在沒辦法去……","quality":0.043},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:12:04.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:12:25.310000+08:00","text":"次長，董事長也在這邊，每一次問到這個，大家都推給電價審議委員會，如果要撥補，我是因為以前的民生，我把民眾的民意告訴你，我們希望能夠以真正照顧民眾的權益為基準，我給你這個功課。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:12:25.310000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:12:35.016333+08:00","text":"好，我們會在電價審議委員會裡面……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:12:35.016333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:12:44.722667+08:00","text":"接下來本席要再請教，日本首相石破茂在22號表示，他在研擬產官總支出39兆日圓（也就是2,500億美元）的經濟刺激方案，以因應未來從通膨到薪資成長的挑戰，內容包括支持薪資持續成長、發放現金給低收入家庭，以及投資半導體跟人工智慧（AI）產業。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:12:44.722667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:12:54.429000+08:00","text":"南韓──我們鄰近的國家，他們也正在考慮明年初要制定追加預算，來因應整個消費者支出下滑跟經濟成長放緩。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:12:54.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:13:39.182000+08:00","text":"在這樣一個情況之下，請教次長，日本、南韓他們都這麼做了，也就是官方全部動起來，針對通膨、薪資挑戰、半導體以及AI產業的發展，我們準備要怎麼帶領臺灣繼續往前衝？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:13:39.182000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:13:43.543000+08:00","text":"有關人工智慧AI，我們目前訂定是到2027年，製造業在導入半導體，差不多一半以上都要導入AI這一塊，然後我們要……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:13:43.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:13:43.803000+08:00","text":"所以等於是4年後？","quality":1},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:13:43.803000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:13:51.730000+08:00","text":"這個當然要逐步，而且這中間我們會先從數位轉型這一部分先導入。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:13:51.730000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:13:59.657000+08:00","text":"再來就是人才培訓，因為跟AI、半導體有關的是人才最重要，我們在2030之前會培訓20萬人，目前整個方向其實跟日本、南韓都差不多是雷同的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:13:59.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:25.421000+08:00","text":"本席似乎都聽到穿越時空的答案，所以我還是奉勸經濟部，人民過好日子是非常非常的重要，也是政府的責任，總好過政策大撒幣，所以我希望……","quality":0.397},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:25.421000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:27.381000+08:00","text":"我們是有完整的規劃。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:27.381000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:29.341000+08:00","text":"鄰近國家已經這麼努力在做，全部官員總動員，我也希望藉由這樣的警惕，我們經濟部應該要有所方案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:29.341000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:31.301000+08:00","text":"有、有、有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:31.301000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:33.261000+08:00","text":"你把方案給本席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:33.261000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:35.221000+08:00","text":"好，我們會把我們的規劃策略給委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:35.221000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:37.181000+08:00","text":"如果要等到2030年，要等到都是穿越時空的答案，這個人民等不及啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:37.181000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:39.141000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:39.141000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:41.101000+08:00","text":"你請回，把書面報告給本席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:41.101000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:43.061000+08:00","text":"我們是逐年在落實。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:43.061000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:45.021000+08:00","text":"主席，我再邀請財政部。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:45.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:45.381000+08:00","text":"請財政部部長。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-27T12:14:45.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:14:45.401000+08:00","text":"委員好。謝謝。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:15:16.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:15:36.485000+08:00","text":"部長，川普勝選重返白宮，加上對加密貨幣友善的候選人幾乎都進入到美國國會，我們各界也預期加密貨幣會在有利的監管環境中，似乎這個方向是會蓬勃發展，依照您的看法是不是？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-27T12:15:40.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:15:48.412000+08:00","text":"有關加密貨幣的部分，金管會以及央行都在做處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:15:49.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:15:50.113000+08:00","text":"在做處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:15:51.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:16:03.081000+08:00","text":"換句話說，包括近期比特幣價格飆升，也是預估朝有利的監管環境當中加密貨幣會蓬勃發展，可以這麼解讀嗎？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-27T12:16:04.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:16:14.428000+08:00","text":"目前來說，有關虛擬資產這個部分，在臺灣並沒有把它認定為是貨幣，而是把它認為是資產。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:16:14.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:16:15.188000+08:00","text":"是一個資產？對。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:16:15.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:16:28.316000+08:00","text":"換句話說，我們目前針對加密貨幣交易所，只有營業稅跟營利事業所得稅，對不對？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-27T12:16:28.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:16:33.131000+08:00","text":"這個部分因為它是資產，所以它的交易也涉及到所得稅。對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:16:34.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:16:44.555000+08:00","text":"對於個人或者是法人在交易中獲利的部分，我們要怎麼樣明確地課稅規範，有沒有朝這個方向在研擬？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-27T12:16:46.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:16:53.182000+08:00","text":"這個部分依法還是根據我們的所得稅法來做規範。對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:16:53.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:08.355000+08:00","text":"但是部長，到目前為止，因為明年1月份美國白宮易主，方向是如此，整個世界的潮流到底會怎麼樣？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:08.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:11.797000+08:00","text":"我方也應該要因應以對啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:12.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:25.567000+08:00","text":"因為貨幣是世界通的，資產也是世界通的，就個人或者是法人交易當中獲利這個部分，我們有沒有朝這個方向會有明確的課稅規範？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:29.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:29.876000+08:00","text":"會有的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:29.876000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:30.876000+08:00","text":"會有的？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:30.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:34.418000+08:00","text":"那你們現在在研擬，大概什麼時候會向社會大眾說明呢？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:35.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:38.700000+08:00","text":"我想這個請賦稅署署長來跟您回答好嗎？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:38.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:39.940000+08:00","text":"你告訴我時間點就好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:40.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:53.787000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為我們現在加密貨幣的課稅是按照現行所得稅法規定的原則，細節如果需要研訂，我們另外還有查核機制的部分，我們一起來處理，那是不是……","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:53.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:54.787000+08:00","text":"關於你們的處理，請問你多久時間可以告訴社會大眾？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:54.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:55.787000+08:00","text":"因為大家都在觀望。","quality":0},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:55.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:56.787000+08:00","text":"是不是三個月？","quality":0},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:56.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:57.787000+08:00","text":"可以三個月嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:57.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:58.787000+08:00","text":"三個月的時間，就在明年1月份。","quality":0},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:58.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:17:59.787000+08:00","text":"是，會比較周延。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:59.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:18:00.787000+08:00","text":"就明年1月份的時候向社會大眾說明這個部分，在個人以及法人交易當中，獲利的部分究竟要如何明確的課稅規範？","quality":0.021},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:18:00.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:18:01.787000+08:00","text":"是不是？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-27T12:18:01.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-27T12:18:02.787000+08:00","text":"好，加油。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-27T12:17:55.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-27T12:18:25.741000+08:00","text":"接著我們請伍麗華委員質詢，我們到邱志偉委員休息半個小時，謝謝。","quality":0.5}]},"gazette":{"lineno":783,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時8分）謝謝主席。楊瓊瓔發言，邀請經濟部次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["連次長錦漳：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長好，我們再就能源政策來做討論。我的簡報上註解執政黨為了貫徹錯誤的能源政策，造成台電公司經營困難，同時行政院於5月2日通過行政院主計總處所編113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案裡，預計要再撥補台電1,000億協助台電永續經營。我們也看到，在114年度的預算裡頭，政府也編列了撥補1,000億公務預算，如果加上這2,000億的話，換句話說，還有之前的3,000億，等於到明年會有5,000億。因為我們在10月16號才漲電價，在這樣的情況之下，民眾都說被剝了兩層皮，一方面漲價，一方面用追加預算或公務預算來撥補之，因為大家都知道這些錢都來自人民的稅金，所以說一隻牛剝兩層皮，坊間是這麼樣認定的！但是本席還是認為，如果說靠漲電價、挖國庫才能夠救台電，次長，你是產業的專家，我願意相信這樣子的論點應該是不成熟的，是嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，沒有剝兩層皮啦！因為10月份這次漲的時候是只有產業那部分漲，民生或是表後的75%那一塊都沒有調漲。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長，你是產業的內行人，因為你漲這一邊，整個通膨還是一樣漲。"],["連次長錦漳：但是相對是少。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要請教你，針對議題回答，如果靠漲電價以及挖國庫才能夠救台電，還有沒有其他的方法？"],["連次長錦漳：我們現在也在責成台電在財務上……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還有沒有其他的方法？"],["連次長錦漳：要去做一些改善，第一個是在本身節約方面，譬如燃料的價格在採購方面，看能不能做一些比較妥善的採購搭配。第二個就是有些資產重估的部分，看能不能有一些空間，所以我們目前……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以次長現在回答的這兩項都是不可能！所以你語塞的說：看有沒有可能！本席告訴你是不可能！"],["連次長錦漳：沒有，當然還有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要請教你，沒關係，我們既然希望這樣子的撥補，部長也說過了，如果撥補兩年內台電的財務還沒有改善，變成他是管理不善，他應當要走人。我的解讀是，如果真給，換句話說，明年不會漲電價，是不是如此？"],["連次長錦漳：這個應該是由電價審議委員會來決定，我現在沒辦法去……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長，董事長也在這邊，每一次問到這個，大家都推給電價審議委員會，如果要撥補，我是因為以前的民生，我把民眾的民意告訴你，我們希望能夠以真正照顧民眾的權益為基準，我給你這個功課。"],["連次長錦漳：好，我們會在電價審議委員會裡面……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要再請教，日本首相石破茂在22號表示，他在研擬產官總支出39兆日圓（也就是2,500億美元）的經濟刺激方案，以因應未來從通膨到薪資成長的挑戰，內容包括支持薪資持續成長、發放現金給低收入家庭，以及投資半導體跟人工智慧（AI）產業。南韓──我們鄰近的國家，他們也正在考慮明年初要制定追加預算，來因應整個消費者支出下滑跟經濟成長放緩。在這樣一個情況之下，請教次長，日本、南韓他們都這麼做了，也就是官方全部動起來，針對通膨、薪資挑戰、半導體以及AI產業的發展，我們準備要怎麼帶領臺灣繼續往前衝？"],["連次長錦漳：有關人工智慧AI，我們目前訂定是到2027年，製造業在導入半導體，差不多一半以上都要導入AI這一塊，然後我們要……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以等於是4年後？"],["連次長錦漳：這個當然要逐步，而且這中間我們會先從數位轉型這一部分先導入。再來就是人才培訓，因為跟AI、半導體有關的是人才最重要，我們在2030之前會培訓20萬人，目前整個方向其實跟日本、南韓都差不多是雷同的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席似乎都聽到穿越時空的答案，所以我還是奉勸經濟部，人民過好日子是非常非常的重要，也是政府的責任，總好過政策大撒幣，所以我希望……"],["連次長錦漳：我們是有完整的規劃。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：鄰近國家已經這麼努力在做，全部官員總動員，我也希望藉由這樣的警惕，我們經濟部應該要有所方案。"],["連次長錦漳：有、有、有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你把方案給本席。"],["連次長錦漳：好，我們會把我們的規劃策略給委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：如果要等到2030年，要等到都是穿越時空的答案，這個人民等不及啊！"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你請回，把書面報告給本席。"],["連次長錦漳：我們是逐年在落實。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好。主席，我再邀請財政部。"],["主席：請財政部部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。部長，川普勝選重返白宮，加上對加密貨幣友善的候選人幾乎都進入到美國國會，我們各界也預期加密貨幣會在有利的監管環境中，似乎這個方向是會蓬勃發展，依照您的看法是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：有關加密貨幣的部分，金管會以及央行都在做處理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在做處理？換句話說，包括近期比特幣價格飆升，也是預估朝有利的監管環境當中加密貨幣會蓬勃發展，可以這麼解讀嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前來說，有關虛擬資產這個部分，在臺灣並沒有把它認定為是貨幣，而是把它認為是資產。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是一個資產？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：換句話說，我們目前針對加密貨幣交易所，只有營業稅跟營利事業所得稅，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分因為它是資產，所以它的交易也涉及到所得稅。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對。對於個人或者是法人在交易中獲利的部分，我們要怎麼樣明確地課稅規範，有沒有朝這個方向在研擬？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分依法還是根據我們的所得稅法來做規範。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對。但是部長，到目前為止，因為明年1月份美國白宮易主，方向是如此，整個世界的潮流到底會怎麼樣？我方也應該要因應以對啊！因為貨幣是世界通的，資產也是世界通的，就個人或者是法人交易當中獲利這個部分，我們有沒有朝這個方向會有明確的課稅規範？"],["莊部長翠雲：會有的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會有的？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你們現在在研擬，大概什麼時候會向社會大眾說明呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想這個請賦稅署署長來跟您回答好嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你告訴我時間點就好了。"],["宋署長秀玲：報告委員，因為我們現在加密貨幣的課稅是按照現行所得稅法規定的原則，細節如果需要研訂，我們另外還有查核機制的部分，我們一起來處理，那是不是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：關於你們的處理，請問你多久時間可以告訴社會大眾？因為大家都在觀望。"],["宋署長秀玲：是不是三個月？可以三個月嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：三個月的時間，就在明年1月份。"],["宋署長秀玲：是，會比較周延。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就明年1月份的時候向社會大眾說明這個部分，在個人以及法人交易當中，獲利的部分究竟要如何明確的課稅規範？是不是？"],["宋署長秀玲：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，加油。"],["主席：謝謝。接著我們請伍麗華委員質詢，我們到邱志偉委員休息半個小時，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":96,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,19-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴瑞隆","顏寬恒","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","陳玉珍","陳亭妃","黃珊珊","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","邱志偉","葉元之","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","黃國昌","邱議瑩","王世堅","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案","agenda_id":"11310701_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}