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請各黨團來表達意見好不好來 請柯總統院長各位列席代表有關於3月15日（有關於執行 然後跳號 引起正義事件"},{"start":2065.404,"end":2081.938,"text":"要說莫說質疑也罷但是我們純粹當一個事件來看待那我們今天協商最主要就是說我希望大家能夠心平氣和把什麼弄清楚那我們希望得到一個解決之道"},{"start":2083.639,"end":2096.813,"text":"那首先我想最重要的是說現法六三條所賦予立法委員的職責．執行權是一個非常重要我相信每一個委員都很在意他的執行尤其是總執行"},{"start":2098.975,"end":2114.893,"text":"當然委員會也是質詢．由於總執行 大家都不能一種政治攻防 因為很重要各黨的政治態度在那邊展現再一黨對於執政黨的挑戰 理所當然"},{"start":2116.109,"end":2132.367,"text":"那執政黨捍衛執政的邏輯與理念那也是相對理所當然這時候我們回頭來看待3月15號那件事情以前從來沒有發生過"},{"start":2133.499,"end":2154.719,"text":"那為何會發生這一點我們也希望以後不要再發生這是重點那為什麼會發生當然我們今天要談就是說到底始末是什麼在接下來談就是說當然要如何謀求不就知道至於以後應該如何來重新規範清楚"},{"start":2155.579,"end":2178.986,"text":"這才是我們今天要朝野行商重要的基礎我也不希望這個朝野行商會變成這個各黨在表態然後互相攻擊那個事情不是朝野商應該做的事情當然事情發生的時候各黨都有不同的態度和攻防但是今天我們是要講求把事實真相先還原出來"},{"start":2180.226,"end":2200.628,"text":"那以下我講的假如有不對的地方當然也歡迎各位執政那可能我會發一點比較長的時間我也知道副總召上次我們溝通的時候他有他的看法那各黨各有不同的看法那希望第一個還原真相"},{"start":2202.383,"end":2226.705,"text":"那為什麼以前不會發生這次會發生當然我們就知道本來早上最後一個質詢的陳寧飛委員後來因為他最後一個質詢那被告知韓院長中午有外賓所以他覺得他還沒有下午的時候他還有事情所以他議事人員走上去告訴他說可能你要換到下午去"},{"start":2228.294,"end":2250.715,"text":"陳庭輝委員也很配合他說他改回書面其實這個事情很簡單毫無爭議陳庭輝委員他一直認為他被誤解我想這個事情上次我們曾經過這改也沒關係所以他到徵意處也去改然後整個週末完成12點鐘全部完成陳庭輝改回書面"},{"start":2252.556,"end":2277.017,"text":"那接下來就是說我們routine的那議事人員就會升職後面要執行的人那這個時候發生一點小小的mistake通常議事人員當然我們都非常瞭解他們平常做事情都很認真而且緊盯著緊盯著整個議事能不能順暢比如說我們每天禮拜五有這個國際論壇"},{"start":2279.019,"end":2292.168,"text":"大家抽籤抽抽的 要幾個三分鐘第一個上台的人講的時候 議事委員就很緊張又看第二個有沒有進來 沒有馬上通知聯絡這是大家彼此良善的互動 維持議事的暢存"},{"start":2294.878,"end":2317.264,"text":"那他改了以後可能議事人員我們今天不追究任何責任議事人員的責任只是說把原因找出來以後如何防止那未來應該怎麼做那這個應該如何補救當然第一個就是說一我們看到就是說整個議場的大的看板上"},{"start":2318.084,"end":2342.615,"text":"在兩點十五分的時候才 十分鐘的時候才秀出來秀出來就下午 這個政經會已經趕快出面第一個是農民財 第二個洪聖翰 以下這一堆那到兩點十五分的時候 那當時呢 那就發生這個事情 有點骨牌效應 我也覺得很悶啊那我就打電話問農民財 欸 到底怎麼回事情"},{"start":2344.155,"end":2360.7,"text":"蔣麗芳對我講的話我講的是原話我說到底你幾點鐘做了通知你會看一星期因為陳情會已經改書面你兩碗換你炒一個他說兩點多一點我說到底幾點他說兩點多才搞不清楚"},{"start":2362.561,"end":2381.254,"text":"那我上次常委前央的時候議事人員有寫一個報告出來說是1點50OK沒有關係1點50到2點半大概有40分鐘當然每一個委員他覺得討結一個是誰我後面的時間我會把他掌握清楚"},{"start":2382.256,"end":2400.802,"text":"所謂的原來原來委員親自下趕快開車急奔回來立法院他還告訴我他還打電話一時才說他會慢三五分鐘請等一下代表他一直很在意他的執行也衝得很快回來當然我知道韓院長那時候永遠辦"},{"start":2403.191,"end":2427.343,"text":"應該也知道 也知道會比較慢 三五分鐘那兩禮拜的時候怎麼辦我聽秘書長講說他也提醒一下容文財會慢一點那是院長大概為了展現說這個等下他上台去組委員會的時候等下各黨不知道怎麼看待"},{"start":2428.183,"end":2446.832,"text":"院長為什麽遲到為什麽不上臺怎麽樣又有不同的解讀然後一似乎院長就在主委臺上去的那主委臺上去的時候就念了下去一似乎就發生所謂的骨牌效應就出來這裏面要牽涉的另一個人就第二個就是洪森漢委員"},{"start":2448.666,"end":2466.918,"text":"我問洪昌偉到底怎麼回事他說早上的時候有一次人員很負責告訴他笑他是第二個質詢可能是3點鐘左右希望他2點35分要進場這早上那都按不該時間"},{"start":2469.119,"end":2496.708,"text":"A到D 羅賓才委員可能講不到15分鐘提他提早進場但是他也他資金的獲取不是很完整有說前面還有一個陳情輝所以他2點30分進來的時候那整個他都他已經被跳掉那這當然我們清楚就是說以後大家發生一些不愉快的事情就找院長去理論"},{"start":2498.048,"end":2519.493,"text":"這是我所看到：所聽到：我問過的實際情形那今天實名而論的話 老實說 醫事人員及早在第二時間通知每一個委員 通知很清楚的話我想大家都會對於自己的執行權 非常在意要來問的都一定有存"},{"start":2520.56,"end":2536.192,"text":"不關於民運將能傳所以在這個時候我們要談就是說那這個事情應該怎麼辦那市場這個過去也有案例有案例那副委員上次的時候曾經告訴我說在"},{"start":2538.297,"end":2566.363,"text":"1984年1995年的時候最後一個廢棋也就是說院長我們在一起從事第二屆的最後一個廢棋那一次曾經發生過類似的事情但是以後就沒有發生了那時候情形是怎麼樣就是問題委員拿一些資料給我看我一看就懂了就是最後一次總執行的時候國民黨委員不問了"},{"start":2567.883,"end":2594.379,"text":"結果中央院長一路一念下去念下去大概二三十個全部跳掉這個問題大了到跳到周柏文的時候他就跳到周柏文那一爐爐他就跳不下去了那下一次院會的時候就是李秀園李秀園當前副總統他和邱惠哲委員占領主席台在argue你怎麼可以這樣"},{"start":2596.516,"end":2610.551,"text":"那就展開協商那協商的時候 當初有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有那是1995年的事情"},{"start":2617.677,"end":2646.646,"text":"那已經1995年以後為什麼沒有發生我想各位很清楚第二屆1993年進來到1999年這段時間也就是說1993到96這段時間一般的議事規則乃至於這個都是引用引用一般民營團體有一個很簡單的所以很多都沒有規範的很清楚那時候大家都大家都知道一開院會的時候院長你也知道一開院會的時候就是陳希懷"},{"start":2648.018,"end":2669.291,"text":"那時候院長說各位偉大政治家誠信沒有問題大家不要一直誠信那時候也可以一個人擋住所謂的宴會你要討論法案的時候大學討論主席要討論他就可以清點人數就開會下去了所以被批評為議事牛夫話那時候立法院說了很大的要求"},{"start":2670.151,"end":2684.301,"text":"所以開始1993以後大家各黨就開始研究立法院的國會無法那時候我是民進黨副總召也參與整個過程我想周恩來秘書長也很清楚這一段到1999年1月的時候移屬國會無法產生了"},{"start":2688.584,"end":2716.832,"text":"這裏面有議事規則重新規範的比較詳細然後也有立法院行為法很重要一個立法院執行刑事法立法院組織法立法院各委員會組織法所謂國會無法而且設立了整個國會圖書館一山中心法治局那1999年1月所簽署通過但是那時候執行刑事法的規定那時候的規定就是說執行長"},{"start":2718.755,"end":2725.645,"text":"的立法委員．不可以參與總執行這就很奇怪那時候也是通過"},{"start":2727.15,"end":2750.437,"text":"那因為我們幫個廢棄以後大家覺得執行權是每一個立法院很重要的怎麼會執政黨的委員不可以當董事長所謂改回就是說1995年1996年的時候改回就是幾問幾答三問三答那你第一個問完老毛行政院長連戰就回答第二個問你再回答"},{"start":2751.357,"end":2766.728,"text":"我想產生所謂的溫冬答詢溫冬答詢因為就是每一個人五分鐘在五分鐘各用各個五分鐘人家一上台講到天南地北把它講完欸 奇怪我問一個問題你怎麼回答你就十問十答"},{"start":2768.169,"end":2787.721,"text":"作為到2000年5月的時候一完執行刑事法第18條再重新改又改為集運集黨當然也有輸入執行也有國土執行集運集黨這時候有集運集黨以後就沒有所謂的上對下或是反執行的問題"},{"start":2789.683,"end":2814.42,"text":"早年我們在野的時候吳敦義院長前院長口才非常好蝦皮跟老蝦他一直幫你搶打大家都在逼江湖這是有一段歷史但是我們現在回到主題來講今天主題所謂這個執行練三分鐘不然就跳過去那是在執行實施法的立法院議事規則裡面28、29條是討論思想"},{"start":2819.522,"end":2843.256,"text":"在討論事項當中當然就是說我們在反審查法案的時候有上台法案討論事項在兩三項不夠條件後面還要列登記真正質詢就立法院沒有任何規範就營用 營用資那再回頭過來說說這樣的過程為什麼從劉仲恩院長那一次事件以後到今天將近30年從來沒有發生過問題"},{"start":2846.505,"end":2865.591,"text":"因為後來包括劉聰雄院長自己本身王院長至於孫家瑜院長尤其是院長都知道都沒有來趕快通知稍微等一下甚至說沒休息先讓他等一會因為盤謝局才趕快跳掉所以都是相關無事"},{"start":2866.391,"end":2890.138,"text":"甚至也發生過我現在提的例子就是說2014年的時候2014年時任立法院廖政錦在總裁選舉的時候遲到了很吵架那我們當場就大家簽一個草尾協商就等一下我會發給各位看這個草尾協商就是這一份簽名的人有我和費永泰2014年費永泰應該是國民黨幹事長"},{"start":2893.68,"end":2902.907,"text":"略經臨時欽擋．所以同意邀政委員繼續執行．鼓證執行更有名的一個案例應該是．2012的時候．2012行政院長施恩昌．"},{"start":2915.265,"end":2936.541,"text":"2021��2021的施政章（黑字章就是疫情更嚴重的時候（發生桃園旅館改為3加11那個事情（還有疫苗的問題等等（所以黃國昌委員曾經談過就是說（總之以前不是只有一個專案報告（那次沒有錯（所以總之是以外3個專案報告（"},{"start":2938.442,"end":2956.849,"text":"第一個專案報告是什麼這個專案先來報告這個3加11的專案報告是在那年9月17號有時候那一次專案報告是說我們黨占領主義台你這專案報告寫得太RAF不給書院長上去專案報告"},{"start":2957.847,"end":2979.614,"text":"可是那時候有4個報告 總之總共有4個報告 大家協商簽名的第一個專案報告就是9月17日3加11的專案報告第二個就是疫苗的專案報告是9月22日第三個是9月23日疫苗追加醫生報告再來一個總質詢 總共1個總質詢3個報告"},{"start":2985.253,"end":3005.486,"text":"第一個9月17日3加11那個報告 國民黨認為那3加11寫的不夠理想再出一台 不讓你報告那接下來往下跳了 第二個專案報告就來了9月22 那是草牆嘛 都往下走了疫苗的專案報告 站下來之後 預算追加"},{"start":3006.647,"end":3026.709,"text":"再總執行 換到9月24日總執行那一次 國民黨再占領主席臺所以總報告事項以後就沒有進行最後一次 就最後一次的時候 9月28日總執行因為報告事項處理完畢 就開始進行總執行"},{"start":3029.676,"end":3055.699,"text":"令總盛行的時候第一個上臺的是民眾黨邱顯智上臺問了五分多分鐘的時間國民黨在底下鬧乃至於用呼喚器衝我後來說邱委員邱顯智委員問我五分多分鐘以後問不下去他說好他就下臺接下來那個"},{"start":3057.683,"end":3076.782,"text":"那位委員 陳醫生委員都在台下他們都喊到他不上台 一路跳跳了一路跳跳 後來後來那位委員再找我說我稍微那個不是 我吃飯會傻 沒關係 別嚴謹"},{"start":3081.793,"end":3099.007,"text":"這不是 這是講事實我講錯了都可以更正所以老費就跟我講說欸 不行老柯 我沒有總知情我說你自己不上台啊啊 好啦好啦那他這個潮流協商就這一份的潮流協商等一下都發給大家就是說 有關於齁"},{"start":3101.98,"end":3129.455,"text":"科團團同意恢復9月28日執行．並依議事處原地名單順序．10月8日重新開始執行不管費用太矮陳一貞被挑滾重新再來這個是一個處理方式因為我發現 坦白講我們共同維護一個現法所賦予的執行權這是我們共同目標今天也不是說我給你繞回然後是誰對誰錯今天不爭辯這個我們是要把事情 圓滿解決"},{"start":3133.857,"end":3156.744,"text":"藝術規則也有慣例 也有到什麼協商等等我比較期待就是說我們今天大家能不能想一想副分局總召跟我談的案例是30年前以後的案例以後就不會再發生因為當主席的人都知道怎麼去處理啦有時候休息一下 有時候給我休息一下 有時候淡一下有時候 劉昌文院長就進去休息"},{"start":3157.95,"end":3169.724,"text":"有關院長在處理議事爭議很大的時候他曾經 我想藍院長你也碰過那一個法院處理爭議很大的衝突的時候他說休息10分鐘結果一個禮拜都不出來"},{"start":3171.902,"end":3186.857,"text":"這個過去這個案例大家講好再來開會那我是覺得3月15號那個總之情有一些mystic中間有一環節是稍微有一點差錯這可以調整改進的"},{"start":3189.131,"end":3212.125,"text":"重點為了這件事 大家這樣亂來亂去 藍綠各自動員我覺得話講完 上次我講完以後就不再發言我希望趁這一次 我把我看到了我覺得應該怎麼處理 向各位兩邊來就策重點 讓最後 那天大家周外台秘書長有講這個可以行官也可以處理"},{"start":3214.466,"end":3238.405,"text":"那當然黃昌偉說沒有關係他尊重反院黨的態度那實質的民進黨的態度黃昌昌本來就是說他認為這個要重新再來應該重新再來那也尊重反院黨的態度那現在黃昌偉又變更了沒有關係我們講最終極的態度"},{"start":3240.046,"end":3263.78,"text":"那上次我們看到﹐紅中﹐總召也是講說做總理就好那今天是不是大家共同的想出一個方法那也給韓院長一個才是﹐一個空間啦我這次當然這只剩下我對面的3位﹐國民黨的黨團代表尤其副總召這個﹐請你再思考一下"},{"start":3268.038,"end":3292.816,"text":"謝謝柯總召的發言接下來我們請副總召請洪書記長感謝院長再一次召開這個協商剛剛我們沒有打斷讓柯建民總召講了一個人快了20分鐘暢所欲言但是到目前為止我還是沒有聽懂到底重點是什麼"},{"start":3293.891,"end":3306.759,"text":"重點到底是什麼怪了沒收質詢怪了議事人員說不追究責任但是通篇沒有講說到底當天該在現場的委員為什麼沒有應該在開會的時間到現場很簡單的道理嘛"},{"start":3314.424,"end":3338.013,"text":"沒關係剛剛柯總召您暢所欲言現在我不會用20分鐘您放心但是我一個一個把它講出來第一當天到現場的委員應該要在就應該要在再者議事人員我們還是強調立法院是113席立法委員所組成的立法院我們議事人員都非常盡責也非常優秀但是議事人員不應該當一個"},{"start":3339.634,"end":3360.847,"text":"保姆 議事人員也不用當一個應該要提醒委員說什麼時候要到什麼時候不用到而議事人員做的是什麼是提醒告訴你質詢的順序並不是告訴你確切質詢的時間因為有可能有委員他即便前一個委員他30分鐘的質詢他也有可能沒有用完30分鐘"},{"start":3362.509,"end":3386.544,"text":"所以說議事人員在現場是告知我們各委員辦公室或是各委員質詢的順序並不是質詢你什麼時候我相信沒有一個議事人員敢大豬大魚打電話到委員辦公室講是說你就是3點上場 絕對不會所以內行人不用講外行話今天也不用把責任推給議事人員更何況議事人員當天在上一次的協商的時候就已經把紀錄給"},{"start":3388.706,"end":3406.281,"text":"秀出來至少議事人員在上午通知一次下午通知一次一天裡面通知兩次下午應該要質詢的委員而且全部都有告知順序所以簡單來講現場委員沒有在是委員的責任在者"},{"start":3407.386,"end":3422.761,"text":"如果說剛剛柯總召講的那柯總召今天朝野協商我想尊重一個開會的程序尊重院長召開會議今天柯總召我們這個吳思堯委員是最先到場之後我們也都陸續到場"},{"start":3424.882,"end":3450.367,"text":"開會的時候就是要坐在現場所以不然你也不知道什麼時候你會來發言非常好所以我也希望未來所有的委員都以柯總召今天的表現為標杆柯總召都可以提早10分鐘到來把握自己開會的權利就不用再講是說你自己本身沒有到然後你現在在講是說要回返再者我覺得最重要的是什麼"},{"start":3451.167,"end":3458.242,"text":"每一次院長在主持行政院院長施政報告進行質詢的時候都有宣告事項"},{"start":3459.652,"end":3477.682,"text":"來我直接清楚明白念給大家聽院長就是主席的施政報告事項裡面講說在進行質詢之前先做下列兩項宣告其中第二項一登記次序輪到質詢之委員如不在場已放棄質詢論採聯合質詢時其中質詢委員如不在場亦已放棄質詢論詢答時間不予併入"},{"start":3487.273,"end":3514.553,"text":"所以每一次院長在召開我們的行政院長施政總質詢的時候是不是都有做這個宣告事項有那請教今天是大家不尊重我們自己共同選出來的院長嗎還是根本聽都沒在聽明明都已經有跟你同意有跟你提議你自己沒有到現場那沒有到現場就是如果輪到質詢的委員如不在場就已放棄質詢論"},{"start":3516.354,"end":3534.176,"text":"我想我們的議事人員或說我們的院長應該沒有責任或沒有義務要去一個一個去問說你今天沒有在現場的委員你到底是要放棄質詢還是不放棄質詢更何況今天如果說真的我們到現在還看到民進黨團對於院長的不尊重"},{"start":3535.359,"end":3551.117,"text":"到現在還講說是院長沒收質詢我想自己沒有在現場就不是院長沒收質詢而是因為你沒有在場院長念了三次之後你仍沒在現場最後我只想"},{"start":3553.004,"end":3581.209,"text":"既然要說共同維護我們的議事規則跟共同維護憲法保障的權利我覺得大家都應該第11屆的國會大家展現新的民意所以如果未來你自己委員30分鐘的質詢你自己要縮減成15分鐘你自己的委員明明可以口頭質詢你改成書面質詢然後改成書面質詢之後還對外對媒體講是說是因為被院長沒收質詢怕了"},{"start":3581.869,"end":3585.873,"text":"所以我改成書面質詢我覺得這也是是是而非"},{"start":3588.508,"end":3613.431,"text":"對 我也聽不懂啊因為就是有貴黨團的委員有提出這樣的一個講法所以今天竟然柯總召也聽不懂說有這樣的講法我們也聽不懂啊我覺得也非常的訝異啊竟然有委員講說他改成書面質詢是因為被韓國瑜院長沒收質詢怕了所以說他至少提出書面質詢有質詢到我覺得這種雞飛城市是是而非的言論我們不能再有"},{"start":3614.144,"end":3632.978,"text":"那我也在這邊再提啊院會跟委員會是不同的所以我這邊也先破題啊可能等一下牧師要委員會提說啊 洪孟楷委員你上禮拜四在國防外交委員會你也有在補的部分本席再一次的強調喔委員會跟院會是完全不同的概念"},{"start":3633.618,"end":3647.93,"text":"院會開始的時候：會有主席宣告事項：質詢未到者勢同趣全：但委員會沒有：而且以前的委員會更盡責的：還有兩輪發言：三輪發言：所以針對委員會不用拿來做一樣的類比"},{"start":3648.931,"end":3672.062,"text":"而我們現在探究的就只是一個大是大非既然已經在這個上禮拜五院會的時候有確定上一次會議的議事錄的話我想議事規則該怎麼規定就怎麼做那我們後續依法行政有法可循我想這才是我們面對新國會大家共同三個黨團共同遵守的一個目標以上謝謝"},{"start":3673.743,"end":3694.856,"text":"謝謝紅書記長的發言副總召跟林副書記長就紅書記長代表了我們請國昌總召請表示意見謝謝謝謝院長老實說我有點不太瞭解今天到底要協商什麼事情"},{"start":3696.13,"end":3723.238,"text":"但是院長有通知基於對院長的尊重所以人還是來了我們黨團有討論過了我們的立場是如果是要討論那天有人時間不在沒有質詢的事情我們黨團的立場就是按照議事規則走沒什麼好協商的"},{"start":3724.355,"end":3744.344,"text":"我先把結論講在前面因為其實那天的爭議跟我們一點關係也沒有我們既不是人不道的人也不是提出什麼指控的人所以我們大概就表達這樣的看法只是後來發生這個爭議"},{"start":3746.704,"end":3768.571,"text":"我們後來就去找就到底發生什麼事那我後來看說有人說院長禮拜五下午已經要出去玩還是要去喝酒我看院長也沒有出去玩也沒有去喝酒啊人在立法院裡啊那第二個我困惑的事情是說說周萬來秘書長有在旁邊提醒你要先休息"},{"start":3769.636,"end":3778.287,"text":"我看也沒有這樣的事啊因為我從外面得到媒體上面在散播的一些訊息結果發現竟然全部都是假訊息"},{"start":3780.021,"end":3797.372,"text":"所以我就覺得有一點覺得怪那天早上又說你要接待外賓所以本來應該可以早上質詢的委員沒有質詢但我負責任的去看那天早上質詢的時間點王宏威委員質詢的時間已經是12點08分了"},{"start":3801.414,"end":3827.879,"text":"那12點08分不就是應該要休息嗎還是本院的議事規則是說12點08分如果有委員希望質詢可以繼續下去大家不要休息那如果有這樣子規則的話可能也拜託院長跟秘書長跟讓其他黨團的成員知道以後大家就一樣的規則嘛比照辦理那"},{"start":3829.577,"end":3852.407,"text":"所以最後針對這個事情說你疏於督導願務又不熟悉議事運作枉顧立委執行權益我大概負責任的把過去發生的一些事看完了因為我們黨團成員大家討論發現沒有這樣子的事項所以我們的態度"},{"start":3853.047,"end":3877.714,"text":"是覺得這個事情有什麼好諮詢的．有什麼好協商的．就按照議事規則走只不過說最後 最後就是說我上次 院長基於善意找大家來稍微商量我們的立場沒改變你如果要問本黨團的爭議就這個事情不要浪費大家的勞力時間費用"},{"start":3879.762,"end":3880.243,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":3897.936,"end":3911.047,"text":"之前我公開說過為了要給你最大迴旋的空間所以你如果有什麼特別的考慮要做什麼特別的處理我們黨團也會尊重以上說明如上"},{"start":3926.616,"end":3955.292,"text":"我們先請施由幹事長來謝謝院長謝謝各黨編珍貴的時間今天大家坐在這裡就是依據我們立法院的質詢行事法68條為了協商議案或是為了解決爭議事項得由院長或各黨團向院長請求進行黨團協商所以民主進步黨團我們也循這個程序然後正式去函給院長那謝謝院長今天就邀集了這個協商"},{"start":3956.042,"end":3980.696,"text":"今天在解決的就是爭議事項所以這是各黨團共同大家一起來解決一起來發揮智慧3月15日發生的事情我想就是A、B、C三件事如果今天回過頭我覺得大家今天都是心平氣和我們希望能夠維持朝野的和諧A、B、C三件事就是A、釐清真相釐清當天發生的始末"},{"start":3982.033,"end":4001.138,"text":"B共同智慧地解決．能不能把3月15日的爭議．用一個智慧的方式．讓大家能夠獲得．各方都覺得舒服的解決．我相信院長也有這樣的智慧．C未來精進的方案．讓大家有所依循"},{"start":4002.398,"end":4027.408,"text":"那我在立法院的時間不長也不短大概我就是9年的時間那確實過去都沒有發生過這樣的狀況不管從王金平院長從蘇嘉全院長到游錫堃院長那立法院適用的都是同一套議事規則那也都是同樣的我們訓練有素而且都非常認真的議事人員同樣的作業規程"},{"start":4028.709,"end":4036.2,"text":"同樣的意識規則又同樣的作業程序（但是卻發生了以前沒有發生的事情（所以確實我們就可以應當來檢討（剛剛柯董昭花了蠻多的時間（還原當天的事實（我想我只要講一個重點（"},{"start":4043.792,"end":4060.256,"text":"好我就以我9年在立法院的經歷我真的是看見我們議事人員是非常的認真都會質詢的順序不需要議事人員來提醒因為質詢的順序都會有公文書大家很清楚的知道但是質詢的時間就有賴議事人員來協助提醒"},{"start":4064.937,"end":4082.473,"text":"這一直是這樣子我也真的很感謝議事員都會提早告訴我的辦公室委員今天大概是下午幾點幾分這些的提醒我們都非常的感謝那當天在這個過程當中當然也是一連串的早上有院長接見外賓然後陳廷飛趕書面"},{"start":4084.435,"end":4093.1,"text":"然後到下午羅明財委員及時趕不回然後才有這連續的事情所以我覺得我們今天在這裡就很和氣也不用說是誰遲到誰不在場我們從以前到現在我們都知道質詢時間委員們就是要在議場但是準備時間大家都在院區在自己的辦公室"},{"start":4108.81,"end":4114.879,"text":"看螢幕然後隨時緊盯這也是為什麼我們立法院花了民脂民膏我們有472臺電視"},{"start":4118.723,"end":4139.931,"text":"在立法委員的每一個辦公室包括公共空間從中心大樓、青島一館、二館再到議場就是院區立法院有472臺電視就是要協助立委跟幕僚可以隨時掌握議事程序然後知道我什麼時候要依時間"},{"start":4141.932,"end":4150.962,"text":"按部座就班的到你的會場不管是院會或者是委員會所以這都是長久以來大家非常"},{"start":4152.242,"end":4163.206,"text":"施以為常這就是國會的日常只是就不免當天就是一連串的意外我覺得現在也不要去指責誰也不要指責院長也不要指責議事人員當然我也覺得不要去指責這些他們認知上是依時間到場的委員不要再指責我們就希望釐清事實然後解決之道然後未來怎麼樣大家可以改善"},{"start":4177.731,"end":4188.701,"text":"所以講到這裏我就要提出剛剛柯總召當然也有提到過去都有案例不管是廖政錦委員2014年9月19日王金平院長他是現場協商有費鴻泰、柯建民、葉金寧委員共同簽字各黨團同意廖委員政錦繼續進行政黨協商這個是過去有這樣子的一個"},{"start":4205.859,"end":4217.285,"text":"案例在又或是2021��2021年10月5號（這是由錫堃院長任內（是經黨團協商朝野協商（也是各黨編簽字的（也恢復了"},{"start":4218.776,"end":4241.175,"text":"費鴻泰委員的質詢權所以都有過去的經驗跟慣例說大家只要朝野和諧朝野協商大家都願意那是可以來恢復質詢的時間不管是發生在廖政錦委員或是費鴻泰委員身上立法院都做到了這是第二件事情那第三件事情我想在不好意思我也比較"},{"start":4242.535,"end":4246.918,"text":"明天就是總質詢的最後一天 它是司法法制組那明天就是依這個順序大概是結束的時間一直到鄭正前委員"},{"start":4260.865,"end":4260.945,"text":"國民黨圖權級委員"},{"start":4283.492,"end":4298.309,"text":"明天的時間是非常的available也剛剛好不會去增加議事人員更多的loading另外再排一天的時間如果明天可以的話當然就是一個很好的時間又或是院長您主持您認為要禮拜五再排也可以"},{"start":4300.692,"end":4318.408,"text":"這是一個大家共同和和氣氣解決這個問題我覺得大家將心比心有一天總會有一些一連串的意外事件發生在你我的身上也許時間就是這樣但是每一個委員都同等的認真在準備他的珍貴的質詢時間我相信院長能夠有這樣的智慧我相信各黨團的黨編都能夠有這樣的同理"},{"start":4324.514,"end":4326.896,"text":"紅術委長和首席總長我們就是差不多重點講了麻煩你 謝謝"},{"start":4344.364,"end":4354.518,"text":"請林思明首席副書長發言是謝謝院長副院長我想首先我要回應施堯今天這件事情不是爭議事件"},{"start":4355.816,"end":4379.794,"text":"我想這件事情很明顯這不是爭議事件第二個我覺得我們立法院的整個開會的程序我們依照意識規則沒有模糊的空間怎麼還有好像在打混帳一樣說沒有質詢到點名過了還可以說我要回覆質詢我想我們一個新的國會正如孟凱書記長剛才講的我們應該有新的氣象所以沒有模糊的空間"},{"start":4381.53,"end":4400.391,"text":"第三個我是覺得說﹐如果說﹐剛才是要講的﹐我們要更精進﹐我們的國會相關規定的話﹐我想民進黨如果認為要精進的話﹐你認為我們的議事規則﹐哪裡有不妥當的﹐民進黨可以提出修法﹐"},{"start":4401.52,"end":4430.608,"text":"截至目前為止我個人是覺得我們這幾年來運作的都很順暢所以議事規則好像也沒有大問題應該不用精進其實我是認為我剛才跟國昌的想法一樣我不曉得今天為什麼還要協商都已經翻頁翻篇了今天還要說要協商要恢復諮詢權其實我個人是覺得院長今天這件事情這幾位委員在第一時間當下重重的打了院長一拳"},{"start":4431.397,"end":4434.225,"text":"你現在跟院長講說 院長你要給我再回復我的質詢權"},{"start":4435.782,"end":4461.401,"text":"我想任何人都應該沒有辦法由這個牙亮來做這樣的一個讓這幾位委員恢復資訊權每位委員剛才你講一直講說真相真相的大家都已經表態非常清楚了所以這個真相是怎麼樣大家都一旦全民都會去檢視大家都知道不用再這個今天再一直講那是怎麼樣過去怎樣我想我們還是這個按照議事規則來走"},{"start":4464.062,"end":4465.405,"text":"那剛才我 剛才那個"},{"start":4467.182,"end":4493.711,"text":"柯總召提到說我們這個總質詢只有如果登記發言的時候只有規定說我們在討論事項就28條的時候在出席委員請用發言因親自向主席來藝術簽名登記那經發言登記主席唱名三次的在場的事為棄權只有在這個這個條文立法院議事規則第28條有規定但是總召我要提醒你"},{"start":4494.631,"end":4520.8,"text":"我們歷年來我剛才孟愷講的我們在一開始我們就主席就已經宣布宣告事項就已經提了經過三次點名你唱名沒來你就視為放棄那我想我們法律很清楚法律規定說法律有規定的就依照法律法律沒規定就依照慣例嘛慣例都是這樣啊更何況當天就已經宣告我們今天這個議事的一個程序是怎麼樣講得很清楚了"},{"start":4521.978,"end":4549.727,"text":"我們哪有什麼模糊的空間說要恢復質詢權呢我想如果說立法院可以這樣做的話我想沒有辦法對全民做交代以上 謝謝謝謝林思明首席副主管發言我們現在請傅坤吉總統第一次發言謝謝院長院長在要發召集通知本席覺得很好奇為什麼還要開會"},{"start":4551.445,"end":4579.894,"text":"但院長給我一個說法所以我們今天國民黨還是出席院長的說法是希望草野能夠和諧大家還是能夠來這裡表述清楚讓全民能夠更加的瞭解所以我們今天基於尊重院長副院長我們今天還是出席我們要再次強調立法院它是一個百分之百民意的機構所有草野政黨加起來的民意就是百分之百"},{"start":4581.9,"end":4609.117,"text":"臺灣全體人民的民意選出來的國會議員在這裡執行職務什麼叫執行職務除了監督政府有沒有施政效力有沒有好好做事有沒有腐化還要爭取各代表區地方民意所要爭取的建設但是開宗民意執政者"},{"start":4610.626,"end":4637.894,"text":"就是在做施政國會議員是來做監督不管執政黨在野黨就是來監督的如果執政黨監督的好這個政權沒有腐化他應該是不斷的堆疊他民意的支持能夠得到更多更多人民給他鼓掌我們看這一次的事件"},{"start":4639.399,"end":4665.267,"text":"本席是實在覺得今天實在是還要討論這個事情我們真的很詫異因為民進黨你第三次執政連續執政你第三屆連續執政為什麼還要把所有的責任推到我們這些議事人員身上你身為一個國會議員你沒有充分的養成訓練嗎"},{"start":4666.96,"end":4695.259,"text":"你不知道什麼叫議事規則嗎不了解什麼叫人民的托付嗎不了解你該做什麼事情嗎還要國會的這些議事人員來當保姆我想大家都不斷地在強調這個事情本席真的很好奇那以後大學聯考晚一點到可不可以重考也有所有的我們國營的"},{"start":4697.469,"end":4726.136,"text":"這些考試 高普考是不是可以重考所以對這樣的一個 比較奇特的一個說法我們一直沒有辦法說我們是要在整個國家 我們是國會要代表大家來執行職務我想在這裡 院長我們國民黨團要特別表達我們也對柯總召"},{"start":4727.557,"end":4749.415,"text":"也表達無限的晚席因為柯總召在這裡實屆了最資深的前輩實屆了也伴隨了民進黨第三次的執政連續執政但是我們要看一看在柯總召帶領之下大母雞帶了這些小雞這小雞有沒有跟上來"},{"start":4751.064,"end":4777.017,"text":"身為國會議員本來就是半年一度的執行權半年才一次去執行行政院的院長這麼珍貴的執行權你有沒有好好的把這個政府能夠監督起來不要讓他變成有腐敗的情況發生結果我們現在看到整個國會的亂象30分鐘一次半年才一次執行行政院的院長"},{"start":4779.471,"end":4805.264,"text":"動輒30分鐘改15分鐘 15分鐘再改書面放棄你的執行權所以把整個立法院的整個執行的次序 整個大亂不是只有議事人員不生其擾本需要特別強調 本黨要特別強調不是議事人員不生其擾其他各政黨也不生其擾因為你們一直在換時間 要改書面"},{"start":4809.056,"end":4832.148,"text":"等於是各政黨 今天是在野黨配合執政黨的國會議員不斷地在調整時間這是我們看到 全力使人腐化而且我今天為柯總召最不值的事情柯總召 這樣去呵護這些小雞愛之 恃足以害之這一頁早就翻過去 為什麼還要討論而且"},{"start":4834.741,"end":4857.041,"text":"本席要在這裏特別強調柯總召跟我30年老朋友早上拿了這一張要給我簽我真的是沒有辦法簽希望我能夠同意讓民進黨立委郭國文委員賴慧媛委員林柱英委員洪森翰委員"},{"start":4858.004,"end":4883.481,"text":"在3月15日發生的特例裏面能不能再讓他們有執行權這四位委員但是本身很好奇這是3月15日發生結果我們在3月22日的運會質詢也是半年一度對行政院長的質詢今天柯總召所提出來的四位民進黨立委裏面在上個禮拜五"},{"start":4884.634,"end":4913.834,"text":"這四位立委又三位放棄了他的執行權又改成書面那我們今天到底在爭執什麼到底在爭執什麼郭國文委員上個禮拜五也改成書面賴慧媛委員也改成書面林楚瑩委員也改成書面對那為什麼說他們原本就是要做書面的是說什麼壓力還要回來執行"},{"start":4916.195,"end":4945.596,"text":"所以我們在這裡要特別的跟大家報告我覺得我們就順著我們順著憲法賦予我們的權利也有我們的意識的規則該怎麼走我們就怎麼走因為這樣下去的話整個次序會大亂我認為本心認為這不要傷大家的感情這一頁早就翻過去有太多的事情未來要討論請院長這個事情我們看我們就盡快就結束好不好"},{"start":4948.044,"end":4970.846,"text":"總統二次發言,麻煩找我時間,謝謝剛才看傅文綺﹖很少這樣徵英為作﹖講得好像人模人樣的話那既然也在談到宿外裁判器﹖什麼民進黨團請用胡話﹖還有對我一番指教當然這個透過直播我先告訴你一件事情"},{"start":4973.451,"end":4980.876,"text":"隨便你 隨便你誰演的 誰演的你態度很清楚等一下有一個新的下個會期"},{"start":4982.453,"end":5004.706,"text":"至少我們會有一些改進的辦法在您離開之前,因為我們等一下要提一個修正案,就是下一個會期開始每一個委員會的時間就固定對,就是這個,以後就固定的話院長等一下,沒關係,國防委員要做不做都無所謂啦因為剛才我們也備了好一個署刑給院長,就是剛才那個案子"},{"start":5006.026,"end":5032.983,"text":"總是事情要解決他不圈的話他也會不圈當然他很不喜歡聽到我跟忽恩齊在對話郭昌文我先回答你你剛才說講的有些資訊可能不正確所以院長沒有去檢外賓這是院長檢外賓是院長自己講的所以先查清楚所以有關於有很多事實真相"},{"start":5034.183,"end":5054.154,"text":"陳秦峰委員的事情也要好清楚至於竹南委員．民進黨有沒有找院長稍等院長會回答所以你不必去對於很多事實真相然後你講到一副好像很無辜很公道的樣子這招委員不必再演了回頭再正傳"},{"start":5056.28,"end":5080.632,"text":"主席委員整個正經八百了我先回答一個簡單問題就好了你說我拿哪一張給你簽你要念也要念公平一點 裡面有突宣期委員我個人不是就因為今天要協商 我知道我想這個總要有一個諮詢所以過去幾天我都跟你溝通 我也跟韓院長溝通"},{"start":5082.233,"end":5105.632,"text":"你們兩黨講好 三黨講好 黃國昌委員尊重你的態度他這個東西當然能夠讓議法委員的執行權能夠恢復這個是過去也有案例 今天不是在這裡跟你講像馮孟凱 林世民講的那種好像非常真心八白的話"},{"start":5106.552,"end":5120.264,"text":"每次都是這樣練 到時候我講的案例都曹營祥全部可以讓他們回來我們講的老朋友 你就講三十多名老朋友 我就講老朋友自己應該講的多"},{"start":5124.067,"end":5144.783,"text":"你領導下的共產黨團總召事實上你都去思考有時候你應該冷靜一點很多不應該違憲亂政的事情違法事項當然憲法有衝突的你也要稍微冷靜一下思考那臺北沒有發聯網啦很多事情大家都等著這個藝術課和這個法律上來談"},{"start":5148.496,"end":5162.232,"text":"我每個禮拜都說得好 說大家 反正各位有案例 你說好啊來簽一簽就好我年薪五零兩天 你說OK今天早上有人給你簽的時候 你說人家把我收走就一直跑然後拿出來這裡奚落這是人講的話嗎 這像因為台灣黨"},{"start":5166.497,"end":5167.678,"text":"你確實把4加1本息現在是告訴你說"},{"start":5190.931,"end":5192.013,"text":"市委民進黨的立委是上個禮拜五"},{"start":5197.994,"end":5206.842,"text":"上禮拜五他原本就排書面對不對 我們圖全齊並沒有上禮拜排書面所以我們在這邊強調我感覺喔 院長我覺得這個沒有什麼好講啦我覺得這樣我覺得這樣講 我覺得這潑霧罵謙沒有意義啦這已經喪失了法律系統的尊嚴各位總召 各位總召你們都批評啊 我第一個"},{"start":5221.814,"end":5248.764,"text":"為了我講一句話沒有主席還沒有講完啦來我提一個solution等一下我提一個solution那今天再怎麼爭辯我想大家都沒有焦急也不是在這裡吵架誰都誰錯的問題因為這種事情很少發生過這種發生我們要檢討未來怎麼改進永比來我提出來嘛未來大概時間就像台北市議會一樣"},{"start":5250.563,"end":5265.716,"text":"我的15分鐘我沒有來你沒來就等到下一個就把這個15分鐘等到完結束再完練三次沒有就用下一次下一個我比一個例子這次總之詢陳永康委員30分鐘講5分鐘"},{"start":5269.793,"end":5288.786,"text":"那這20分鐘怎麼辦 剛好底下有人收工地址不上來所以以後把很多所可能發生的事情都把它堵截起來你那15分鐘就是一個禮拜的時間給我打架 這才是正辦法好不好那我再舉一個例子 因為說2月1號我們選舉政府院長的時候 下午不是選副院長"},{"start":5291.388,"end":5314.046,"text":"民進黨說楊岩他不進來那我們不知道到底要不進來我們也不敢去開票大家時間趕快開票大家把遊戲規則弄清楚這樣以後就不會有吵但是今天到這裡每一黨都有自己的論述發言但是請大家冷靜想一想立法委員的指引顯示大家要好好的如何去維護比較重要好不好"},{"start":5315.347,"end":5342.045,"text":"總到我裁決一下第一個我先跟大家報告一下今天為什麼要開這個會議是立法院民進黨黨團正式提議提議出來我必須要召開讓大家心中有這些想法可以放下來第二在從頭到尾開會的時候周恩來秘書長叫我說怎麼休息一會沒有我就問秘書長一件事我們所做的是不是一切合乎議事規則秘書長說是合乎的所以我們繼續往下走我要跟大家報告一下"},{"start":5342.805,"end":5344.447,"text":"為了杜絕未來再發生類似情況．提案．為補救今後無謂爭議．本席想在質詢程序上做改變"},{"start":5361.513,"end":5378.667,"text":"各黨團同意而後院會進行有關委員之質詢．或詢問時．由議事處依名單及順序明定其質詢．或詢問的起議時間如有委員未及時到場．．或提早結束質詢．則院會休息"},{"start":5382.008,"end":5411.488,"text":"等待下一位順位的委員由排定的質詢時間或詢問時間繼續開會然後進行質詢或詢問那這是文字化我口語化就是說你有15分鐘你3分鐘離開了還有12分鐘身為主席我們必須要等好等滿讓你整個完整15分鐘通通結束我們才會進行下一位的質詢那這樣的話就今後就再也不會有類似衝突了那這一點是我們提出一個"},{"start":5412.488,"end":5413.048,"text":"因為我剛才看到這個東西"},{"start":5430.876,"end":5444.664,"text":"我不知道今天要協商這個所以我沒跟黨團成員討論請院長見諒我們黨團內的民主我還是要尊重可能待會去跟大家討論他第二個事情是說"},{"start":5446.165,"end":5471.822,"text":"這到底要透過協商結論還是要透過議事規則的修改我是認為院長或許可能要再想一下因為這個協商結論的本身你在執行層面上馬上會出現很多問題什麼叫馬上會出現很多問題你認定的基準時點是什麼時候所謂認定的基準時點是順序排出來了以後那個時間點就要確定嗎"},{"start":5474.38,"end":5501.113,"text":"那如果接下來有四五個人全部都改書面質詢那所以我們現在的規則是接下來五個改書面質詢的時候那議場要要怎麼辦呢基準時點很重要喔因為不好意思喔請你尊重人家發言好不好我每次在講話你插什麼話啊你在講話我不是在插話嗎我再來 再一次 再一次"},{"start":5504.502,"end":5504.683,"text":"趕快離開 趕快離開"},{"start":5514.455,"end":5540.96,"text":"總統那既然 沒關係我繼續 大家齁還是要把情緒 和緩一點我提案呢 我當然要給他補充說明一下沒問題 總統沒關係 先徵詢我主席之後我再請你發言這樣啦齁 好 沒問題他當我們 個人想提出來齁我們 兩黨都在這裡 要簽的就簽嘛齁那當耳後的修法 那是耳後的事情嘛至少曹偉強 把遊戲規格先拎出來以前用曹偉強解決嘛"},{"start":5541.94,"end":5562.158,"text":"後來是用另外一個規則去解決但是我們未來怎麼做 這個協商我們先認定以後就好處理了阿姨要副主席引導的事情我們非常尊重她 因為我們非常習慣她這種行為請關掉麥克風這個沒有 這個有什麼好關掉 這個我是講的很直平"},{"start":5569.406,"end":5592.756,"text":"如果各位不簽我們就試著做做看好不好試著因為他剛剛講假設兩個狀況並不是也是會發生的也有可能院長他假設狀況我是提案的人當然我要把說明去的只是說謹於口頭之意施民進黨團就是沒了沒了就吵架了嘛那你改了不能臨時改了那把它不讓清楚"},{"start":5594.488,"end":5596.929,"text":"各總召所提的這個就是說﹖將來以後就盡量降低爭議﹖其實一勞永逸的"},{"start":5615.098,"end":5632.809,"text":"副總統你以後講話不要突然又丟起來好不好我們尊重院長召開朝野協商所以開始跟結束我們還是尊重院長但我真的在今天還是強調是說不要再請貴黨團不要再似是而非講院長沒收質詢我想"},{"start":5634.85,"end":5636.011,"text":"我最後補充一下我非常同意剛剛侯孟楷書記長說的"},{"start":5658.79,"end":5679.245,"text":"不要說誰是沒收質詢那同樣的請國民黨委員也不要說這些在場邊等候的委員叫做薪水小偷這樣也不對好嗎還有一件事情對不起主席剛剛我要澄清一下邱志偉賴會員林楚英他們在交通組剛剛副總召唸的他把文件唸錯了"},{"start":5680.886,"end":5707.193,"text":"這幾位委員他是原本在交通組就是書面不是這件事情他們把經濟組改成書面直至到今天為止洪森漢林楚英郭國文賴慧元包括國民黨的圖全級委員都沒有改成書面這個訊息要講清楚所以這個剛剛副總召在念這個這個是議事非常清楚的登記可能副總召這個盲中有錯看錯了"},{"start":5708.621,"end":5733.874,"text":"那第二件事情我也在這裡要表達一下這個遺憾因為各黨團的黨編來這裡協商都是有決定權都是能夠代表黨團來做處理如果黃國昌總召民進黨只有8席委員我們每一黨國民黨最多有52加2我們有51席如果黨編在黨團協商的大小事情都在這裡甩頭就走就說"},{"start":5734.654,"end":5759.395,"text":"我沒有回去 我要回去問問我的每一席委員那請問黨編做什麼好 黨團協商我想黨編還是有相當的智慧跟意識的經驗可以來協助代表當然有些東西要帶回去討論不是不行但是如果動輒這樣那我覺得黃國昌總召對於黨編的身份的扮演我是他的能力上我是大有質疑啦在這裡要補充一下 謝謝妳是說 妳看穿又說穿是吧"},{"start":5760.987,"end":5777.536,"text":"那謝謝各位黨團的幹部我們剛才所提的這個民進黨團所提的這個案子我們會請議事處人員再研議那另外一個將來而後為了避免這些所謂的爭議我們在質詢誠意上做了一些改變到時候再跟各黨團再來單獨報告好嗎好 非常感謝大家謝謝"},{"start":5781.676,"end":5783.058,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5803.728,"end":5804.109,"text":"主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}