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我們現在已達法定人數 現在開始開會請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院程序委員會第11屆第1會期第三次會議議事錄實現中華民國113年3月19日星期二中午12時4分至22分地點紅樓20會議室出席委員林文思明等18人 主席吳衍忠憲"},{"start":1956.568,"end":1976.234,"text":"報告事項一 宣讀本會第11屆第1會期第2次會議事錄決定確定決定事項一 審定本院第11屆第1會期第6次會議事程一層報告事項及資訊事項一 民進黨黨團張文雅林提案均照一層草案及陣列報告事項通過對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢二 請願案件"},{"start":1979.161,"end":1992.955,"text":"一含送本院相關委會審查共一案二一請願法第4條系屬應提起訴訟之事項未便受理含附請願人共一案三一立法院職權行使法第65條含轉權責機關處理進付並複資請願人共6案宣讀完畢好請問有無錯誤或遺漏之處好沒有我們意思不確定"},{"start":2003.407,"end":2026.137,"text":"那報告委員會在處理這個議程草案之前先向各位委員說明因為今天早上這個院會通過的這個協商結論決定我們要在定於4月2號也就是禮拜二邀請審計長列席報告111年度總決算跟特別決算的審核報告等這個等案那審核經過並被諮詢並被諮詢"},{"start":2030.014,"end":2046.454,"text":"那本次議程草案有關4月2號的這個院會議程我們就依照這個上開的協商結論我們予以調整好可以嗎好那我們現在就請宣讀議程草案報告事項質詢事項及諮詢事項"},{"start":2049.724,"end":2078.08,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期第7次會議議事程草案實現中華民國143年3月29日星期五4月2日星期二上午9時至下午6時地點本院議場報告事項一宣讀本院第11屆第1會期第6次會議議事錄二之四委員王燕營等於去中華民國新法教司法及法自然審查老公基準法中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法教社會福利及衛生環境委員審查五之六委員廖偉強等於去上層事件處理法教司法及法自然審查醫療發展特別條例"},{"start":2079.1,"end":2079.24,"text":"委員委員委員"},{"start":2098.992,"end":2099.373,"text":"公職委員選舉罷免法 總統副總統選舉罷免法"},{"start":2114.089,"end":2128.219,"text":"國際法交內政委員審查 貨物稅條例交財政委員審查 中央選舉委員會組織法交司法及法制內政兩院審查 二十一至二十三委員 高金素美等女區中央選舉委員會組織法交司法及法制內政兩院審查 立法院組織法交司法及法制委員審查"},{"start":2129.039,"end":2150.001,"text":"地方人一代表費用之幾期村里長事務補助費補助條例交內政委員審查24-27委員楊瓊玉等據遠洋漁業條例公司法 人員管理法交經濟委員審查中華民國刑法交司法及法制委員審查28-29委員蘇金權等據中華民國刑法交司法及法制委員審查兒童及少年福利與權益保障法交社會福利及維持環境委員審查30-34"},{"start":2152.123,"end":2168.585,"text":"委員．施法等據所得稅法﹑遺產及贈予稅法交財政委員審查公立學校教職員退休之前撫恤條例交司法及法制交易及文化聯合委員審查公務委員退休之前撫恤法民法交司法及法制委員審查國民黨黨團引據中華民國新法交司法及法制委員審查"},{"start":2170.547,"end":2197.421,"text":"委員陳昌明等局財政收支劃分法交財政委員審查環境影響評估法交稅務福利及衛生環境委員審查3月8日第41委員王定宇等局公職委員選舉罷免法總統副總統選舉罷免法交內政委員審查陸海空軍刑法交司法及法治外交及國防兩位委員審查外國創業人才演覽及雇用法交經濟稅務福利及衛生環境交易及文化三位委員審查4月2日第48委員陳玉珍等局離島建設條例再生能源發展條例交經濟委員審查國際法交內政委員審查"},{"start":2199.202,"end":2218.272,"text":"地方制度法 內政 司法及法 資料委員審查 聚會服務法 社會福利及衛生環境委員審查49至50委員 研究等區 性別平等工作法 兒童及少年福利與權益保障法 社會福利及衛生環境委員審查51至55委員 許智傑等女俊 飲水法 船員法 交通委員審查 學生輔導法 教育及文化委員審查"},{"start":2218.992,"end":2219.012,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":2243.77,"end":2264.795,"text":"委員 林一慶 鄧宇峻 國際法 總統 副總統 選舉 罷免法 教內政委員審查學校法人及其所屬私立學校教職員 退休 撫恤 離職 私遣條例 教司法及法治教育文化 兩委員審查教師法教教育文化 委員審查66-69 委員 林思明 鄧宇峻 公民不在籍投票法 地方民意代表分員知己其孫里長收補助費補助條例 教內政委員審查"},{"start":2265.815,"end":2277.4,"text":"工廠管理 輔導發酵 經濟委員審查財政受資化分法 財政委員審查70-73委員會委員會根據原住民屬工作權保障法 國際法地方民意代表分行知己其孫立長事務補儲費補儲條例 將內政委員審查工廠管理 輔導發酵 經濟委員審查74-716"},{"start":2282.822,"end":2305.572,"text":"委員民主運動與局國際法臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例交內政委員審查陸海空軍刑法交司法及法治外交局國防兩委員審查屆七至七九委員區議能與局農村再生條例植物整條施法工廠管理輔導法交經濟委員審查八十至八十五委員盧縣運動與局反族群歧視法地方民意代表費用知己及村民等事務補助費補助條例交內政委員審查"},{"start":2307.433,"end":2321.446,"text":"原住民保留地淨化補償條例 將內政經濟量為審查 並以地區學校教育發展條例 教教育及文化為審查 全民健康保險法 將社會福利及衛生環境為審查 老年人民福利清貼篡選條例 將社會福利及衛生環境經濟內政三為審查"},{"start":2324.128,"end":2324.549,"text":"委員委員委員委員委員委員委員"},{"start":2345.424,"end":2367.67,"text":"92-95委員吳佩義等居國際法教內政委員審查﹚文化資產保存法教教育局文化委員審查﹚豆沙東管理主法調理車交通委員審查﹚國家語言研究發展中心社區調理教司法及法治教育局文化聯盟委員審查﹚96委員沈柏亮等一居國家安全法教內政委員審查﹚97-99委員王正俊等居所得稅法教財政委員審查﹚癌症防治法教社會福利及衛生環境委員審查"},{"start":2370.172,"end":2376.959,"text":"100-102 文蔡義隆居地方委員代表費用支給其村長收入補助費補助條例將內政委員審查保險發酵財政委員審查工廠管理複勞發酵經濟委員審查103 文馬文君等居工廠管理複勞發酵經濟委員審查104-106 文謝業鳳等居戶籍發酵內政委員審查"},{"start":2387.47,"end":2414.752,"text":"農民退休處境條例交經濟委員審查農業保險法交經濟財政兩位委員審查107-108委員張雅玲鄧俊野生動物保育法交經濟委員審查教師法交教育及文化委員審查109-114委員科資源等與中華民國新法交司法及法治委員審查公立學校教學院退休資金撫恤條例交司法及法治教育及文化兩位委員審查高級中等教育法學生輔導法運動產業發展條例交教育及文化委員審查115-118"},{"start":2417.665,"end":2430.351,"text":"委員 邱振鈞等局 遠洋漁業條例 少子女化 社會對策 基本發酵 經濟委員審查勞工保險條例交稅 福利及衛生環境委員審查公務員員退休之前補蓄發酵 司法及法治委員審查 119-120委員徐喬興等局 沿海防治發酵 社會福利及衛生環境委員審查監察院組織發酵 司法及法治委員審查 121-113委員陳培鈺等局"},{"start":2440.615,"end":2459.755,"text":"學生輔導法教師法教交集文化委員審查中加病等於加值型及非加值型營業稅法交財政委員審查工廠管理輔導法交經濟委員審查武裝線等於性平等工作法交社會福利及衛生環境委員審查加值型及非加值型營業稅法交財政委員審查"},{"start":2462.737,"end":2482.567,"text":"136-136委員邱志偉等居外國專業人才演覽及雇用法教經濟社會福利及衛生環境教育及文化三文人審查多層次是傳銷管理法教經濟文人審查兩年文明復印經濟暫行條例教社會福利及衛生環境經濟內政三文人審查廢紙廊上邊區人員任用條例教司法及法治內政兩文人審查公務委員考記法教司法及法治文人審查137-138委員張志偉等居"},{"start":2485.909,"end":2493.456,"text":"動物保護法 經濟委員審查中華民國新法 司法及法制委員審查司法及法制委員審查大陸委員會函送臺灣與澳門避免航空企業雙重課稅協議成效報告"},{"start":2502.203,"end":2522.286,"text":"交內政委員處理141-286 行政院內政部 海委會 國發會 經濟部 農業部 交易部 主席總署 審計部 環境部 衛福部 國安局 金管會 國安基金管委員會 通常會 司法院 陸委會 黨產會 聯名會 客委會 中選會 海委會 國防部 退府會 僑委會 公平會 央行 文化部 國科會 核安會"},{"start":2523.127,"end":2542.332,"text":"故宮、交通部、工程會、運安會、訴發部、總統府、考試院秘書長、監察院秘書長、法務部、護士館等含送書面資料交相關委員會287-307行政院農業部立法院秘書長、司法院、省市行政總署等含位預算決議事項交相關委員會處理308-309立政委員會含位院會交付事項業績審查處文件請查詐案"},{"start":2548.374,"end":2567.942,"text":"國民黨黨黨團提議次列一至六 國民黨黨團委區 中小企業辦 條例 電 法教 經濟委員審查 所謂稅法 證券交易法教 財政委員審查 公務員退休 資遣 撫恤法教 司法及法專委審查 交易經費編列與管理法教 教育及文化委員審查 企業指揮委員 張正文等局 新住民 基本法教 內政委員審查"},{"start":2569.062,"end":2595.232,"text":"中央企業法院條例交經濟委員審查 預算法交財政委員審查 環境基本法交收益負利期委員審 環境委員審查 十一委員馬文君等於居 國土計劃法交內政委員審查 十二委員文明財等於居 證券交易稅條例交財政委員審查 十三委員圖宣記等於居 中華民國刑法交司法及法治委員審查 民進黨黨團體政略十四委員審 北洋等於居 臺灣地區與大陸地區人文關係條例交內政委員審查 十五委員郭國文等於居"},{"start":2595.952,"end":2617.94,"text":"證券投資信託及顧問法﹐不動產證券化條例交財政委員審查17至19委員莊瑞雄等一區﹐學校衛生法教教育及文化委員審查性別評論工作法教授及衛生環境委員審查國際法教內政委員審查25委員鍾家斌等一區﹐國際法教內政委員審查21至23委員蔡啟昌等一區﹐國民體育法教教育及文化委員審查消防法教內政委員審查"},{"start":2618.4,"end":2630.508,"text":"老民 農民 福利 經濟 暫行 條例 交稅 危機 衛生 環境 經濟 內政 三委員審查24至25委員陳培宇等 文莊 雅玲等分別擬具行人交通安全設施條例交內政交通兩委員審查26至28"},{"start":2633.73,"end":2646.535,"text":"委員黃潔等據國際法教內政委審查費指印刷稅法、輿路稅法教財政委審查二九至三十委員洪生恩等據海洋保育法教內政委審查行行交通安全設施條例教內政交通聯網委審查"},{"start":2649.456,"end":2674.243,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團第一政略三十一至三十五臺灣民眾黨黨團一聚公一皆必求保護法教司法及法治委員審查兩岸地階協議處理及監督條例海洋保育法教內政委員審查所要稅法教材政委員審查國軍老舊眷村改憲條例教外交及國防委員審查全市向省級長列席報告中華民國一百一十一年度中政府總決算暨附屬單位決算及中紀表審和報告"},{"start":2675.183,"end":2687.352,"text":"中政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第三期特別決算審核報告中政府嚴重特殊傳染性肺炎防治及紓困陣型特別決算審核報告審核經過並被諮詢4月2日宣讀完畢好我們現在宣讀完畢齁請我們就請這個登記發言的委員來發言我們首先請這個請省委員柏陽發言"},{"start":2713.128,"end":2713.708,"text":"請問針對沈博洋委員的提議有無異議"},{"start":2742.113,"end":2765.247,"text":"沒有齁 那我們本次議程草案包括報告事項 質詢事項還有各黨團增列報告事項及協商通過邀請審計長列席報告111年度總決算及特別決算審核報告等案的審查經過並被諮詢齁 我們就通過那接下來我們請宣讀議事議事日程草案的這個討論事項"},{"start":2768.099,"end":2796.485,"text":"討論事項3月29日1.中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算及總計表一頁及非一頁部分審查總報告案2.本院公安黨團建請院會作成決議立即停止調漲電價並要求請人們責成相關部會即刻檢討現行營運政策並提出因應對策與配套措施以兼顧人民生氣維持供電穩定及台電公司之正常營運是否有讓請供決案宣讀完畢"},{"start":2800.046,"end":2806.05,"text":"好我們現在宣讀完畢我們請登記委員發言首先第一位我們請莊委員瑞雄發言謝謝主席還有我們聯席所有的委員民主進步黨立法院黨團針對第11屆第1會期第7次會議議程討論的事項建請照那個原列的議事日程草案通過"},{"start":2833.196,"end":2836.405,"text":"好 謝謝接下來第二位我們請黃委員仁發言"},{"start":2853.664,"end":2868.44,"text":"謝謝主席各位我們程序委員那我們國民黨黨團的提議陣列本院國民黨團為避免物價電價調漲民生痛苦指數飆漲"},{"start":2869.881,"end":2894.992,"text":"因此反對臺電公司調漲電價建期院會作成決議立即停止電價上漲並要求行政院、貴城相關部會即刻檢討現行能源政策並提出因應對策與配套的措施並兼顧人民生計以維持供電穩定及臺電"},{"start":2897.153,"end":2923.576,"text":"公司執政廠的引印是否有當建起公決所以按由本院中國國民黨立法院黨團針對本次第11屆第1會期第7次會議議事日程草案針列討論事項第二案列入本次會議討論事項第一案以上"},{"start":2928.943,"end":2930.872,"text":"謝謝 接下來請登之第三位發言 請連委員過程發言"},{"start":2943.156,"end":2952.685,"text":"主席各位同仁大家午安我想臺灣民眾黨特別在這裡要拜託還有我們共同來討論因為本黨團是針對兩個案第一也是"},{"start":2961.832,"end":2982.198,"text":"這個臺電漲價這個問題我們本黨團認為起的一個共識比較中性也就是說要求經濟部針對臺灣能源這個能源的政策電價的結構還有臺電各項知識尊嚴的措施向在本院經濟委員會提出前面檢討確經本院經濟委員會審查通過以後電價"},{"start":2987.559,"end":3006.987,"text":"前面還漲前面還漲也就是充分的讓全民知道你漲價的目的在哪邊所以這個部分我們本黨團特別提出這個針類第一案另外針類第二案特別就是彰化縣他是龍躍大縣那為經濟幣規劃在彰濱公衛區"},{"start":3012.329,"end":3012.449,"text":"林佳龍"},{"start":3035.344,"end":3051.717,"text":"總統府秘書長特別還告訴全民說是不見的另外我們行政院的鄭文燦副院長也特別承諾是不蓋的那現在無因無故選完以後就馬上覺得"},{"start":3053.639,"end":3065.949,"text":"要馬上蓋所以我們本黨團也提出這些應該要進入大會大家來公解大家來討論以上臺灣民眾黨本黨團針對這兩項敬請各位支持謝謝現在有莊瑞雄委員登記第二次發言我們請莊瑞雄委員發言"},{"start":3079.579,"end":3096.924,"text":"謝謝主席還有在場的一個委員電價如果這個跌大家都會很開心那電價要漲要跌立法院當然都會表達這個關切我們立法院在2015年就是說在第8屆的時候我去第8屆進來的時候我們就通過了電價公示建立電價審議的一個機制就是說我們去設置了整個電價費率的審議委員會定期去檢討調整公用的一個受電業的一個電價"},{"start":3109.348,"end":3126.915,"text":"審議會在審議電價的時候他有去評估各種的一個因素比如說你去考量到電價的一個成本有一去中國考量到社會的一個經濟的一個狀況物價的一個穩定情況民生承受的一個程度那這幾年大家很清楚了臺電其實就是虧損了那這個整個立法院通過了就是"},{"start":3133.342,"end":3158.121,"text":"定價審議委員會 漲跌是他來做一個審議那這幾年大家也很清楚臺電本身是一個國營事業你本身又要兼負著維繫國際民生的一個政策的任務成本當然都能夠吸收 民眾都消息息藉此來協助降低通膨的一個壓力可是大家 我們立法院的同仁大家也不妨去想一想"},{"start":3158.661,"end":3158.681,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":3176.523,"end":3176.664,"text":"國際經貿情勢的演變"},{"start":3196.505,"end":3220.683,"text":"我相信是不是完全復甦然後再考量到整個臺電發電不管是發電或者購電的一個成本那這個部分來講的話都是關鍵到整個經濟的一個發展跟人民生活的品質大家的想法都會是一樣可是呢臺電整個永續的經營跟民眾用電的一個權益你怎麼樣去穩定這供電跟降低民生的一個衝擊"},{"start":3221.964,"end":3248.869,"text":"這一次在電價審議委員會裏面3月23號這個決議裏面平均電價它去漲了11%可是它是以民生用電採較低調幅然後產業用電因經營狀況用電量採不同調幅的一個方式也就是說這次的一個電價的調整它是比較細緻化的我想從我上面這樣的一個發言裏面其實也就是要跟委員會"},{"start":3250.109,"end":3255.295,"text":"的委員來做一個報告就是說這一次電價調整方案已經是電價費率審議委員會依照我們立法院的決議也去反映成本照顧民生穩定物價來節能減碳使用者付費的考量"},{"start":3265.547,"end":3285.921,"text":"也同時其實也做成一個附帶決議啦容於學校社福團體電價為止動漲的一個附帶決議啦那我想民主進步黨秉持著民生優先穩定物價的一個保障民生福祉的部分並維持我們我國供電電力永續的一個發展以上民主進步黨這樣的一個說明好接下來我們請黃人委員第二次發言"},{"start":3305.269,"end":3325.518,"text":"謝謝主席 各位委員本席認為 討論電價的調漲是最不得已的情況之下所以在討論電價調漲之前 有兩件事情我們先討論清楚第一個是台電影印的虧損 真正的原因是什麼"},{"start":3326.798,"end":3348.398,"text":"弄清楚這一點才能做出對的政策才可以解決問題第二個是電價調漲到底對民生經濟產生了多大的衝擊如果調漲電價救了台電而搞垮了我們的經濟絕對不是一個好事"},{"start":3351.921,"end":3368.372,"text":"那針對第一個問題雖然民進黨一直推說是因為國際原物料的上漲提升或者是一個二屋的戰爭事後國際能源價格上漲所以"},{"start":3369.639,"end":3391.052,"text":"都只是一個表象所以真正的問題原因在哪裡是民進黨的政府僵化的能源政策導致臺灣在面對國際能源價格浮動時完全沒有反應的空間最後不得不漲價的電價所以從此全民"},{"start":3392.968,"end":3406.563,"text":"從我們全民的身上挖錢民進黨政府不先檢討能源政策反而先調漲電價根本本末導致所以第二個問題是民進黨一直用電價調漲對物價影響有限欺騙國人"},{"start":3410.086,"end":3430.036,"text":"甚至說出麵包店電價調漲一日兩元的謊言電力或能源的產生關聯性非常的高無論是生產製造或服務業都是能源使用有關雖然民生用電在700%度以下都不漲但其餘的商辦"},{"start":3438.82,"end":3440.722,"text":"臺電在估計這次的電價調漲影響CPI的"},{"start":3462.196,"end":3462.216,"text":"好"},{"start":3490.086,"end":3510.291,"text":"我們現在所有登記發言都已經結束我們來進行處理我們是這個先提案先表決所以我們依照這個提案的順序我們來進行處理依照慣例因為我們這個提案"},{"start":3512.574,"end":3524.726,"text":"如果這個包括第一案莊惠雄委員所提的是依照建議依照這個原定原列議事日程草案通過了所以如果莊惠雄委員的案子通過了我們後面的就不處理了"},{"start":3525.714,"end":3550.839,"text":"那這個國民黨黨團所提案的是增列第二案討論事項第二案那這個如果那如果莊瑞雄委員沒有通過我們處理國民黨的案子如果國民黨案子通過我們第三案就不再處理所以我們按照慣例是這樣處理好不好那是增列案怎麼會他們的處理我們的不處理勒不是啦 這個委員會是大家要談大家沒有意見當然可以處理"},{"start":3555.367,"end":3570.69,"text":"好沒關係這個尊重大家的意見我們都是按照慣例啦按照好好好啦好好啦"},{"start":3585.949,"end":3605.977,"text":"莊銳雄委員的案子如果過了我們二三案都不處理啦齁對不起因為這個我看你們的案子啦齁因為你們本來有一個其餘照草案通過啦齁有本來有這樣文字如果這樣文字我知道他們本來國民黨黨我拿到他上面有一個其餘照草案通過啦齁"},{"start":3606.897,"end":3624.914,"text":"那後來劃掉了後來劃掉來劃掉沒有看到劃掉啦齁因為如果他沒有劃掉你的就沒有辦法處理因為他們其餘他們案子有這個其餘照草案通過啦齁那他們現在劃掉了我想那就沒有關係我們就第三案再處理再處理這都沒有問題我們都照議事規則來了齁好那我們現在"},{"start":3631.229,"end":3643.289,"text":"現在就進行處理了先提案先處理我們先處理針對莊瑞雄委員的提案請問有無異議有有異議我們就進行表決請清點在場人數"},{"start":3653.204,"end":3656.826,"text":"我們在場人數18人現在針對莊瑞雄委員的提議贊成者請舉手贊成者8人反對者請舉手"},{"start":3679.984,"end":3695.316,"text":"反對者10人贊成者少數不通過所以我們接下來就處理第二案由黃人委員的提案請問針對黃人委員的提案在場委員有無異議沒有沒有異議有"},{"start":3699.517,"end":3724.759,"text":"好有意義沒有我們是針對程序我們不是針對你贊不贊成今天是程序委員會我們不是這個在討論要不要漲電價的問題我們是在討論是不是要按照這樣的程序來處理我們程序委員會所以好那如果有意義我們就進行表決那我們再清給一次在場人數有意義嗎有意義阿民進黨團有意義阿"},{"start":3727.029,"end":3730.211,"text":"在場人數18人 贊成黃人委員提議的請舉手贊成者10人 反對黃人委員提案的請舉手"},{"start":3755.831,"end":3766.138,"text":"沒有啦,這個不能這樣講反對者8人贊成者多數,我們通過接下來我們處理第三案我們處理林國城委員的提案請問針對林國城委員提案,在場委員有異議?"},{"start":3784.601,"end":3810.72,"text":"有吼 有異議有異議我們進行表決那這個贊成林國成委員提案的請舉手好 贊成者10人反對的請舉手好 反對者8人贊成者多數通過那我們討論事項就依照修正通過"},{"start":3813.2,"end":3836.074,"text":"好 接下來請宣讀人民請願案人民請願案1.1請願法第4條規定系屬於提取訴訟之事項者一案2.1立法院職權刑事法第65條規定含轉權的冤案處理者共事案宣讀完畢請問各位委員對人民請願案有無異議沒有無異議通過請問有無臨時動議沒有我們今天散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}