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首先有請我們公平交易委員會李志偉請李志偉委員好 主委好 主委 你要去新的市嗎有去春花廟拜拜嗎 那個春花廟很涼很熱"},{"start":30.902,"end":55.215,"text":"有沒有?你老實跟我講,不要電動。很久以前,多久以前?大概年輕的時候啊。年輕談戀愛的時候。我會講,它是全省最有名的小吃店。但是我看一個新聞,我感覺很奇妙。新竹春花廟口17家小吃聯合漲價,公平衛收違法但不法。"},{"start":59.626,"end":74.741,"text":"我覺得你這個政策對但是我感覺你們的做法你們的想法常常會改變那個小吃裡面有一個特色有肉飯、鵝、煎什麼都有它是裡面聯合他們有一個好吃為什麼"},{"start":75.882,"end":93.91,"text":"我們價格都一樣,客人誰要去哪一家,大家自由去,就不去競爭,不去在裡面整個審查混淆掉,你們要知道地方有這個特色,所以去那邊大家不會為了生意而在爭吵,而是和和氣氣的。"},{"start":95.751,"end":116.184,"text":"您說漲價就是聯合的行為,燒土腳也要轉為人,一個管理委員會在那邊燒料,把市場維持得乾乾淨淨清清潔淨還做好服務,現在水電帳什麼都漲了,我感覺您把這個小事當作大事在辦,真的是資源運用錯了。"},{"start":117.867,"end":142.623,"text":"我希望這點你們要好好想,你們是沒事情做,吃飽養養的專門做這些事情來做我看是這樣啦,改進改進,你們有很多做法,其實剛剛那個王偉講的也有道理第二個,以前你們處理一個案件,多層次的行銷"},{"start":144.449,"end":160.967,"text":"結果被你們公平交易會去檢調會再調查調查現在的結果都是順勢結果那家公司倒了才又再重新再起銀行都不跟他配合說以前有這樣的案件打了8年"},{"start":162.572,"end":182.082,"text":"讓一家公司倒閉掉啊你們完全沒有責任那一直來拜託我會每一家每一家銀行去拜託銀行都說不肯啊這樣子來因為利潤的不好但是他這個是一個社會公益的一個行為啊他現在要東山再起沒有人來"},{"start":183.163,"end":209.449,"text":"要去幫忙他,這樣注意,你跟我來協調一下,跟銀行叫來你注意,你們跟人家檢舉已經發生錯誤,業者失敗了要打國家賠償法又太久了好不好,我們兩個一直聯手來拜託銀行看你能不能做得到,錯是在你們那邊,這樣沒接應,要一間公司對應我覺得吼,我們的政府不值得一個信任"},{"start":210.829,"end":229.696,"text":"從常常要安排失責事,導致民間的企業倒閉,已經沒有辦法再重新開張,遭到很多的困難。我希望我們共同來解決,我會特別找你一起處理。第三個,您有一篇文章說,企業變貨成為趨勢,將為競爭法、執法帶來挑戰。"},{"start":235.678,"end":255.055,"text":"我來說現在電子企業台灣都是中小企業這方面你好好注意外國不要注意台灣的企業台灣的企業太小常常被外國企業所欺負尤其現在的電子產業整個情形每一個人發展不一樣"},{"start":256.571,"end":271.799,"text":"兵貨有時候才會大,大才跟國外有競爭。你在怕台灣的企業太大,他這個沒有獨攬的行為。每一個企業都在做,我希望先確立這樣的一個觀念好不好。再來今天最熱門的,"},{"start":273.34,"end":297.962,"text":"就是關於Uber跟Penta那個外送平臺那我給你一個資料看一看給你深思熟慮一下考慮一下在7月18號工商時報裡面有一篇文章第一個新加坡政府態度強硬外送平臺終止合併談判"},{"start":300.441,"end":325.169,"text":"這個在工商時報7月18號那在沙國就是沙烏地阿拉伯火診外送平台之申請以確保市場的競爭就是不同意合併再來一個香港外送市場因為新加熱者重新有熱絡的狀況"},{"start":327.574,"end":349.997,"text":"那我為什麼這個給你參考剛剛王委員在談到說人事綁架這個確實是分開但是你覺得你們很獨立的在公平交易委員會在獨立審判嗎高通的案件委員通過托拉斯法案要把他罰了7億多已經裁決出來了最後"},{"start":351.294,"end":374.347,"text":"你們腳踩台灣碰到美國碰到日本碰到歐洲你們從來都沒有腳踩得很順都腰都彎下來了變成去投資投資7億7億多少台幣200多億台幣7億剛好公研院一年的預算你們這樣做下去這個政府這樣做下去他有多偉大"},{"start":377.796,"end":380.279,"text":"臺灣的電子業打得東倒西歪大家都要聽他的你們都不敢講話所以我不敢信賴這個政府就是這樣一個應該要"},{"start":401.994,"end":411.189,"text":"財閥要來賠償了你們把它變成收改為去投資那我這個政府所以關於這個外送平台業者消費者"},{"start":413.782,"end":440.038,"text":"還有那個外送人工會都反對其實到這個時候其實很明顯啊外國人要求台灣很簡單你給他合併他給你起價你就給他起價尤其是澳洲尤其是美國尤其是日本的你們連屁聲都不敢放所以我們不怎麼相信看了那麼久你敢去找台灣人的麻煩外國人的麻煩你就不敢找啊"},{"start":442.164,"end":469.612,"text":"檢討一下好好考慮我為什麼拿高通起手有沒有我很自信我判斷你們最後會通過你們在國外的壓力下我們審理個案一定是照個案來判斷不會有這個本國人外國人不同的主意看最後的結果就曉得啦不然你請我一餐我請你一餐嘛我對這個不信賴我是以這樣的來跟你這種是嚴重的警告"},{"start":470.66,"end":477.371,"text":"好不好那個獨到歐美人從來不會照顧臺灣人只有在這邊奪取利益而已謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":894,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時23分）主席好，首先有請公平交易委員會李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：主委好。主委，你去過新竹市嗎？有去城隍廟拜拜嗎？那個城隍廟很靈驗喔！有沒有？請你老實跟我講，不要只是點頭。"],["李主任委員鎂：很久以前去過。"],["陳委員超明：多久以前？"],["李主任委員鎂：大概是年輕的時候。"],["陳委員超明：年輕談戀愛的時候。我告訴你，那邊有全省最有名的小吃店，但是本席有看到一個新聞，覺得很奇妙，新竹城隍廟口17家小吃聯合漲價，公平會說違法，但不罰，你們這個政策是對的，但是本席覺得你們的做法、想法常常改變。那裡的小吃有一個特色，不管是滷肉飯、蚵仔煎等等，裡面什麼都有。那裡有一個好處，為什麼？因為價格都一樣，客人可以自由選擇想要去哪一家，這樣大家就不會競爭，整個市場也不會混亂，因為有這樣的地方特色，所以大家不會為了生意爭吵，都是和和氣氣的。","你們說他們漲價就是聯合行為，但是他們需要僱專人掃地，管理委員會在那邊照料，把市場維持得乾淨、整潔，還做好服務，而且現在水電等等都漲了。我覺得你們是把小事當大事在辦，資源真的運用錯了，我希望這一點你們要好好想。你們是沒事情做了，吃飽閒閒，專門找事來做嗎？我覺得應該是這樣，要改進、改進所以你們很多做法，剛剛王鴻薇委員說的也有道理。","第二個，以前你們處理過一個案件，就是多層次傳銷，公平交易委員會、檢調介入調查，結果都是那家公司勝訴，但是那家公司卻倒了，當他想要東山再起時，銀行卻不和他配合。以前曾發生過這樣的案件，一個案子打了8年，結果讓一家公司倒閉，難道你們完全沒有責任？他一直來拜託本席，本席也幫忙去每一家銀行拜託，但是銀行都不肯合作，因為利潤很薄。這是一個社會公益行為，他現在想要東山再起，但是沒有人肯幫忙，主委，請你和本席一起去協調向銀行借錢。","當時你們收到檢舉案，結果發現檢舉內容是錯誤的，業者是對的，如果聲請國家賠償，又太久了。我們兩個一起聯手去拜託銀行，你能不能做到？因為錯在你們這邊，結果你們沒有責任，卻害那家公司倒閉，讓本席覺得政府不值得信任。你們經常這樣做事，導致民間企業倒閉，現在他要重新開張卻遇到很多困難，我希望我們能共同解決，我會特別找你一起去處理。","第三個，你有一篇文章說到企業併購成為趨勢，將為競爭法執法帶來挑戰。我告訴你，現在臺灣的電子企業都是中小企業，針對這方面，你們要好好注意外國的狀況，不要只注意臺灣的企業，因為臺灣的企業太小，常常被外國企業欺負。尤其是現在的電子產業，每個發展不一樣，有時候透過併購，規模才會變大，規模變大才能和國外競爭。你們怕臺灣的企業太大，但其實他們並沒有獨攬的行為，因為每一個企業都在做，本席希望先確立這樣的觀念，好不好？","再來，今天最熱門的就是關於Uber Eats和foodpanda外送平臺的事情，本席給你看一份資料，請你深思熟慮，好好考慮。7月18日工商時報有一篇文章提到，第一個，新加坡政府態度強硬，外送平臺終止合併談判；在沙國，就是沙烏地阿拉伯，核准外送平臺之申請，以確保市場競爭，但是不同意合併；再來，香港外送市場因為新加入者，重新有熱絡的狀況。本席為什麼舉這些例子給你參考？剛剛王委員有談到人事綁架，希望兩者要確實分開，但是你認為公平交易委員會是獨立審判。","就像高通的案件，委員會以壟斷為由裁罰他們七億多美元，裁決已經出來了，但是說真的，臺灣只要碰到美國、日本、歐洲，你們從來沒有抬頭挺胸過，腰都彎下來了，和高通和解之後，最後就是他們只要投資7億美元就好。7億美元是多少臺幣？二百多億元臺幣。7億美元剛好是工研院一年的預算，這樣你們也做得下去？這個政府竟然做得下去！它有多偉大？工研院平常節省經費進行研發工作，他們一年的預算，你們就這樣送給高通，讓他們增加人事費用吸引人才，把臺灣的電子業打得東倒西歪，大家都要聽它的，你們卻不敢說話。所以我不信任這個政府就是因為這樣，本來應該要裁罰、賠償，你們卻把它改為投資，怎麼會有這樣的政府？","所以外送平臺業者、消費者，還有外送員工會都反對，到了這個時候，其實趨勢已經很明顯。外國人想欺負臺灣人很簡單，你們只要一同意他們合併，他們說漲價就漲價，尤其是歐洲、美國、日本的企業，你們連屁都不敢放，所以我們不怎麼相信政府，因為看了那麼多案例，你們只會找臺灣人的麻煩。"],["李主任委員鎂：本國人、外國人……"],["陳委員超明：因為你們不敢找外國人的麻煩。你們要檢討一下，好好考慮。本席為什麼舉高通為例？因為我很自信，我判斷在國外的壓力下，你們最後還是會同意，因為臺灣從來沒有抬起頭。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員，我們審理個案一定是照個案判斷，不會對本國人、外國人有不同的處理。"],["陳委員超明：好啦！我們來賭一下，沒有關係啦！看最後結果就曉得了，不然我請你一餐，或是你請我一餐嘛！我不信任你們，所以以這個個案為例嚴重警告你們，那些獨大的歐美企業從來不會照顧臺灣人，只有來這邊奪取利益而已，謝謝。"],["主席：請蔡易餘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-18","speakers":["呂玉玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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