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加強 加強 加強 加強的第一個第二個 我們OECD裡面有一個損棄聯盟這個是國安會要我們參加"},{"start":251.48,"end":275.83,"text":"新的元素是不是?國安會要叫你們明年去參加是明年要去參加嗎?以往沒有,是新的東西是不是?我們就是要去討論,增加六成的原因是什麼?要讓國人知道你們的辛苦嗎?第三個是什麼呢?因為我們審計的工作要入役推展,所以我要派人去學習"},{"start":277.899,"end":297.83,"text":"日益推展那以往都沒有日益推展以往都沒有派人去學習嗎所以你講的第三點並不是新的嘛是原本就有的啊對但是因為有聯繫上一些國外的專家或者國外的政府單位的人那所以我們還是會派人去講所以我們差不多 審計長"},{"start":298.911,"end":326.521,"text":"因為我們在這裡回答都有錄音錄影所以我們是在討論在疫情前你的出國預算是增加了六成的原因是什麼我們在這裡來答詢主要的目的是要讓你能夠去說明但是依照你剛剛所說的三項裡頭只有第二項是新的其他都是一樣的這個本分工作那你回答一個說要加強"},{"start":327.821,"end":352.075,"text":"現在的機票也貴了現在的機票國外的機票也貴了現在的機票很貴貴到六成因為多種因素匯總起來的增加你這樣子好了你把你增加在疫情前你增加的六成你們預計要怎麼做你順利資料給本席因為在這裡不能隨便答"},{"start":353.035,"end":374.912,"text":"您現在所說的三項裡頭只有一項是新的其他的都是您的本業工作本來就已經有在做所以我們也希望錢要花在刀口上必要的我們全力支持必要的不能胡亂讓我們的納稅錢有所爭議所以我希望您把您增加的內項目給本席多久時間給本席"},{"start":378.054,"end":393.729,"text":"多久時間給本席?一個禮拜給本席最後一個議題行政院跟我們的主計長我們每一年超增稅收請問已經幾年都超增?"},{"start":397.816,"end":412.337,"text":"因為每一年在立法院在立法院都說你們要去做整體性的一個檢討某一個政府變成預算跟最後實際上差距很大今年大概會超增多少主計長"},{"start":413.607,"end":416.772,"text":"三千八百億左右目前我們大概預估是如此但是每一年每一年都會再超增"},{"start":430.589,"end":456.741,"text":"連續三年都超增是,從110年到現在都是有超增啦所以我們114年度的時候我們也請稅率有增加這個部分就是說它達到那個我們原來的預定、預估的部分請它再加強這方面你們也發覺到這個問題嘛每一年累計將近10年到超增那這個問題出在哪裡?是你以後的不準還是你們的超減部署不準"},{"start":457.601,"end":483.344,"text":"這個都不是一個政府應當有的每一年都在調整所以你也警惕到了也請他們要再重新去審視所以114年有調整了所以114年調整所以行政院在這邊我非常的支持我們羅敏才委員所說的這一切都來自人民的納稅錢3800億在今年度一個人發一萬是最公平的"},{"start":484.42,"end":490.351,"text":"最公平的2300萬人還有剩下很多所以這個是最公平的"},{"start":491.559,"end":517.365,"text":"所以你贊同吧,行政院報告委員,你這些支出還是必須要透過預算的一個程序啦當然啦,行政院支持啦優先還債啦,優先還債你現在終於講了要優先還債可是人民苦所以行政院你的看法呢?最不支持將我們超收的一個人發一萬現金,促進經濟、消費目前我們的方向是優先還債"},{"start":518.593,"end":538.824,"text":"優先還債要不要考慮發現金促進經濟消費要不要要不要行政院現在的時機點沒有這個考慮沒有這個考慮拿回這個功課好好去討論好不好我們希望能夠發現金刺激消費好不好好贊成謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":981,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時51分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。請行政院主計處、審計部一併上來，因為時間的關係。"],["主席：請陳主計長、陳審計長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：行政院請一併上來共同討論。"],["主席：請行政院李國興副秘書長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝。首先針對於審計部，審計部114年度的預算當中，中央政府審計的工作項下，我們針對國外旅費的部分來做討論。您所編列的預算是496萬6,000元，113年增加了72萬7,000，增幅是17.15%。我們又看到審計部在105年到114年針對出國所編列的預算跟執行的成效，105年到109年連續5年大概都維持在308萬4,000元，就是這個水平。110年度稍微減一點點，是306萬1,000元。111年跟112年因為COVID-19的關係，所以你執行減到134萬跟175萬左右。但是在114年當中，你是增加將近到500萬。在這樣的情況之下，如果和疫情前相比，你編列的預算是成長6成，依照行政院所屬各級機關因公派員出國案件編審的要點，第二點的規範有一句是：本院各機關以及基金因公派員出國都必須要依照本院所訂的年度預算籌編原則以及編制概算應行注意事項有關規定。所以為通盤檢討的審慎，編制年度派員出國的計畫跟編列國外的旅費。我首先請問審計長，比COVID-19之前的預算成長6成，那應該要撙節原則控管整個預算，讓我們的預算能夠達到有效能，所以請教你有關增加的這個部分是什麼呢？你的基本加入的元素是什麼？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：謝謝委員關心這個問題。第一個，現在我們有派駐人在國外，因為針對很多問題我們統統要派人去查，這是第一個。第二個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：來，慢慢講沒關係，你說你會成長比COVID-19之前達6成？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對、對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是你的新政策，是不是？新政策以往都沒有在看？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：有，有在看。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那為什麼預算會差那麼多呢？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：因為疫情期間……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席告訴你的是疫情之前，你是達6成。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：但是疫情期間，我們都沒有出去。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對本席的提問，剛剛花了兩分鐘跟你講你的背景，所以請針對本席提問的問題。你剛剛說派駐在外地的，你們統統都要去看，所以會增加預算是不是？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對，我們會去看，我們會去抽查。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是抽查？還是統統都要去看？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：抽查。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為這個工作是原本你每一年都例行在做，除了COVID-19期間停止之外。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對，所以我們要去看。第二個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以並不是新增的嘛，這是本來的預算……"],["陳審計長瑞敏：加強、加強。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：加強？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：是，這是第一個。第二個，我們OECD裡面有一個審計聯盟，這個是國安會要我們參加。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：新的元素是不是？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：新的沒有錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：國安會要叫你們明年去參加。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：因為能夠在OECD不容易……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，是明年要去參加，以往沒有，是新的東西對不對？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對。第三個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們就是要討論增加六成的原因是什麼，要讓國人知道你們的辛苦啊！"],["陳審計長瑞敏：謝謝、謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第三個是什麼呢？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：因為我們審計的工作要日益推展，所以我要派人去學習。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：日益推展，那以往都沒有日益推展，以往都沒有派人去學習嗎？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：有、有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你講的第三點並不是新的嘛，是原本就有的啊！"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對，但是因為聯繫上會有一些國外的專家或者國外政府單位的人，所以我們還是會派人去查，所以我們差不多……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：審計長，我們在這裡回答都有錄音、錄影。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：有的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我們是在討論疫情前你的出國預算增加六成的原因是什麼，我們在這裡答詢主要的目的是要讓你能夠說明，但是依照你剛剛所說的三項裡頭，只有第二項是新的，其他一樣都是你們本份的工作，你剛才回答一個說要加強……"],["陳審計長瑞敏：現在的機票也貴。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：啊？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：現在國外的機票也貴。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在的機票很貴，會貴到六成？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：因為多種因素匯總起來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這樣子好了，你把在疫情前所增加的六成，你們預計要怎麼做，你以書面資料給本席。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：可以，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為在這裡不能隨便答，你現在所說的三項裡頭只有一項是新的，其他的都是你的本業工作，本來就已經有在做，所以我們也希望錢要花在刀口上，必要的我們全力支持。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是必要的，不能胡亂讓我們的納稅錢有所爭議，所以我希望你把增加的項目給本席。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：我們再送給委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久時間給本席？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：原則上一個禮拜。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個禮拜給本席。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：最後一個議題請教主計長，請問我們超徵稅收已經幾年了？因為每一年在立法院都說你們要去做整體性的檢討，不能政府編列預算跟最後實際上差距很大，今年大概會超徵多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分是屬於財政部的，但是初步我是聽財政部說大概三千多億。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：大概3,800億左右，目前我們大概預估是如此，但是每一年都會再超徵，連續3年都超徵。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，從110年到現在都是有超徵，114年度我們歲入有增加，就是說它要達到我們原來的預估，請他們再加強這方面，所以在114年……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們也發覺到這個問題嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，所以……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：每一年累計，將近10年都超徵，那這個問題出在哪裡？是你們預計的不準？還是你們的超前部署不準？這都不是一個政府應當有的，每一年都在超徵！所以你也警惕到了，也請他們要再重新去審視。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，要請他調整，所以114年有調整了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，所以114年調整，行政院在這邊，我非常支持羅明才委員所說，這一切都來自人民的納稅錢，3,800億在今年度一個人發1萬是最公平的，2,300萬人還有剩下很多，所以這個是最公平的，你贊同吧，行政院？"],["陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，你這些支出還是必須要透過預算的一個程序。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然啊！這要行政院支持。"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們原則上是希望優先來還債，優先還債。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你現在終於講了，要優先還債，可是人民苦哈哈，所以行政院的看法呢？支不支持將我們超收的，一個人發1萬現金，促進經濟消費。"],["李副秘書長國興：目前我們的方向是優先還債。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：優先還債，要不要考慮發現金，促進經濟消費？"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要不要？要不要，行政院？"],["主席：要啦！回去想一下。"],["李副秘書長國興：現在的時機點沒有這個考慮。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有這個考慮，拿回這個功課好好去討論，好不好？"],["李副秘書長國興：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們希望能夠發現金，刺激消費，好不好？"],["主席：好，贊成，謝謝。下一個請賴惠員賴召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":170,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-10","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","王鴻薇","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅","羅明才","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃珊珊","李彥秀"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並\n備質詢；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關主計總處暨審計部、審計部臺北市審\n計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部桃園市審計處、審計部臺中市審計處、審計部臺南市審計\n處、審計部高雄市審計處部分；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關直轄市及縣市\n政府。調整軍公教人員待遇準備。災害準備金。第二預備金","agenda_id":"11310702_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}