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那個誰 宣祥兄那邊還沒拿到有 還有人沒拿到 這邊還沒拿到等一下 沒關係"},{"start":2314.196,"end":2321.623,"text":"現在就名稱的部分進行討論請議事人員宣讀二版的名稱"},{"start":2322.864,"end":2342.92,"text":"宣讀要點對照表委員魯明哲等8人提案名稱 鏡電視深涉及後續弊案爭議調閱專案小組運作要點委員李坤哲等7人提案名稱 立法院交通委員會鏡電視調閱專案小組運作要點宣讀完畢這個這個這個名稱"},{"start":2349.625,"end":2351.046,"text":"鏡電視調閱專案小組運作要點作為一個名稱"},{"start":2381.738,"end":2388.269,"text":"副委員覺得李昆哲召委的這個版本很有道理麥克風"},{"start":2399.1,"end":2419.925,"text":"其實我們當時在想的時候確實鏡電視經過了一年多的風風雨雨因為當時我們都在交通委員會不光是我們交通委員會的一個感受包括了NCC甚至一般民眾的一個感受當然我這邊個人是覺得鏡電視深色及後續爭議如果閉端兩個字拿掉我是覺得可以接受的"},{"start":2420.385,"end":2447.557,"text":"所以說鏡電視深涉及後續爭議調閱專案小組坦白講因為專案小組也不是也不需要如果沒有這麼多爭議也不用成立啦所以我們想當時設定這個主題的主要的目的對阿 後續爭議阿那如果拿掉弊端兩個字呢弊端兩個字額 郭哲哲委員 其他委員那個"},{"start":2451.113,"end":2463.711,"text":"主席好 大家好剛剛盧委員的修正基本上本席可以接受 也就是說可以鏡電視深射及後續爭議 我覺得這樣子"},{"start":2465.503,"end":2486.715,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":2486.815,"end":2511.181,"text":"可以採取一個比較折衷的方式吧那如果用鏡電視聲色及後續爭議閉端兩個字拿掉民進黨同意嗎這樣可以齁閉端兩個字拿掉好不好閉案兩個字拿到齁對啦因為還沒有嘛還沒有查出來嘛查出來有閉案才叫閉案沒查出來我們不要去"},{"start":2512.148,"end":2529.937,"text":"好 那這個第一條這個名稱的部分就是請醫生先讀以後來閉端兩個都拿掉醫生先讀一下名稱修正為鏡電視深涉及後續爭議調閱專案小組運作要點好 這個我們就修正通過"},{"start":2542.168,"end":2557.219,"text":"那再來第一點第一點委員有沒有意見?第一點也是把弊案拿掉是不是?議事委員先讀一下兩個版本好不好?"},{"start":2558.936,"end":2582.351,"text":"第一點委員魯明哲等8人提案立法院交通委員會依立法院自權行使法第45條及立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第三次全體委員會議決議成立鏡電視聲社及後續弊端爭議調閱專案小組以下簡稱本小組委員李坤哲等7人提案第一點立法院交通委員會鏡電視調閱專案小組"},{"start":2585.453,"end":2595.201,"text":"下稱本小組依立法院自權行使法第45條規定及113年3月11日第11屆第1會期交通委員會第三次會議通過之臨時提案辦理。宣讀完畢好,這個第一條第一點,那有問題就閉案兩個字嘛,閉案拿掉閉案拿掉以後我們照魯明德的版本可以嗎?"},{"start":2616.946,"end":2620.608,"text":"第一點趙委員魯明哲等8人提案在後段這邊修正為成立鏡電視深涉及後續爭議調閱專案小組以下簡稱本小組宣布完畢"},{"start":2645.35,"end":2655.784,"text":"第一點沒有意見的話我們就照魯明哲委員提案把B案兩個字拿掉我們就修正通過第二點請議事員選讀"},{"start":2661.758,"end":2683.956,"text":"委員李明哲等8人提案第二點本小組運作出本院有關法令另有規定外依本要點刑之委員李坤哲等7人提案第二點本小組運作出憲法法律及本院有關法令另有規定外依本要點刑之宣讀完畢好這裡面差異就是憲法法律齁這個各位有沒有意見國民黨團"},{"start":2693.595,"end":2696.28,"text":"對民進黨的憲法及法律有沒有意見應該不會反對憲法吧沒關係憲法"},{"start":2707.779,"end":2725.508,"text":"沒關係啊 其實你國民黨有講嘛 依照大法官會議解釋是可以的啊你們大概就 民進黨大概的意思就是不能抵觸憲法嘛 對不對但是憲法的部分 國民黨這邊也就是說大法官會議已經有解釋了嘛"},{"start":2727.447,"end":2755.342,"text":"那林國正委員發言呢?我是建議這樣啦因為我們這個小組是附設在我們交通委員會底下一個爭議調閱小組所以跟憲法是無關的所以這個放了憲法會把它 層次把它拉得太高啦阿其實 其實這種憲法本來有關規定不可以就不可以啊因為我們只憲有關調閱這些法令而已啊"},{"start":2756.212,"end":2779.039,"text":"還有所以我建議不要再放憲法會把層次拉得太高啦把層次拉得太高我是覺得還是用盧委員這個版本法令就是我們有關規定也是依照我們立法委員的這個職選行使法45條設定超過這個當然不可以所以不要把憲法把它放進來我是建議這樣好陳書永來發言"},{"start":2781.4,"end":2805.357,"text":"好謝謝主席其實這個無關乎成績的問題啦那其實剛剛林委員有講過嘛就是不會逾越憲法的規定所以這樣子的話放上去也沒有差別啊所以我覺得說放上去是更完整啦因為我們本來立法委員的職選行使就是要依照憲法嘛所以這放上去只是更明確而已嘛"},{"start":2811.682,"end":2834.526,"text":"立法院任何的運作都是要符合憲法跟法律的規範那所以說這個是一個最基本的憲政的一個原則而沒有必要另外寫在這個法條上就算法條上面沒有寫我們的這個做要點上面沒有寫還是必須不能夠違反憲法這很基本就像我們在審一些其他的法案的時候我們也是類似的寫法我們不會在個別的法案上面寫說"},{"start":2836.006,"end":2837.407,"text":"這條法案不能違背憲法"},{"start":2855.32,"end":2860.726,"text":"本小組運作除有關法律另有規定外,依本要點行之。"},{"start":2879.523,"end":2907.656,"text":"對啦對啦這樣可以吧這是除有關法律另有規定外好本小組運作嘛除有關法律這個就照李昆哲委員的版本是不是因為因為廖憲強委員講的也沒錯啊每一樣都要關個憲法法律齁本來就是憲法法律這是本來就是基本的基本的常識"},{"start":2908.789,"end":2935.53,"text":"那其他的大法官有解釋阿或是其他法律有解釋的這個都另外的問題嘛現在請醫術人宣讀一下第二點修正為本小組運作除有關法律另有規定外依本要點行之宣布完畢就照李昆哲委員的版本憲法法律及本院這幾個字拿掉就修正通過"},{"start":2936.69,"end":2940.707,"text":"各位沒有意見嗎?沒有意見修正通過好,第三點請議事院宣讀"},{"start":2944.918,"end":2967.156,"text":"委員魯明哲等8人提案第三點本小組由交通委員會以下簡稱本會全體委員組成之必要時得決議邀請其他委員會之委員加入以3人為限委員李坤哲等7人提案第三點本小組由交通委員會以下簡稱本會全體委員組成之宣讀完畢好 這個各位有沒有意見"},{"start":2973.399,"end":3002.237,"text":"有請發言陳淑儀委員第一個嘛好跟著謝謝這個本小組由交通委員會全體委員組成之這是最基本的一個調閱小組各委員會成立的這樣的一個基本的規範那你如果要邀請其他委員會的委員參加以三人為限那你就成立調閱委員會院級的調閱委員會就好啦"},{"start":3004.154,"end":3005.475,"text":"稍後請鲁英哲委員翻譯"},{"start":3020.919,"end":3029.551,"text":"好,那針對這個要點第三我們提案的一個版本其實主要的考量的目的是希望鏡電視調閱的這個專案小組能夠更圓滿而且更專業,道理就這麼簡單"},{"start":3035.919,"end":3063.453,"text":"因為我們交通委員會本身在加入部分很多有交通的專業其他領域不同領域的專業但是對於媒體或者對於NCC的一個專業其實我想各黨各派也許都有一些專家能夠注入一些專業這是我們當時在討論唯一的想法所以開放外委會也不可能說無限制吧它人數超越我們這個會也沒辦法開啦所以我們當時的想法是這樣啦當然結果還是尊重我們委員會各位委員的意見"},{"start":3064.625,"end":3083.033,"text":"好我想如果這個專家學者3個人5個人6個人8個人當然你以3個人為限這個其實在委員這些專家學者如果有意見的話在我們交通委員會私底下有沒有都可以提供很多意見所以我們是不是尊重"},{"start":3085.618,"end":3113.469,"text":"其他委員會的委員那我想是不是尊重尊重尊重我們昆德招委的意見好不好好不好這個尊重他的好不好就本小組由交通委員會全體委員組成就好了嘛沒有那個趙紀仁趙紀仁因為這個會提三人就是現在有三黨所謂三黨派一個代表加入其本意是這樣"},{"start":3114.589,"end":3131.827,"text":"這不是說外面也就是說有時候我們委員其實我們設在這裡所以我們這個設置辦法如果因為為什麼會設三人是各擋一個可以推薦來他是一個專家所以他原意是這樣不是說要去增加"},{"start":3132.427,"end":3152.826,"text":"那個 報告林國成委員 因為你現在兩個混為一談你現在這一條林明哲委員的他是說其他委員會之委員參加 不是說另外 有另外的是專家學者你們在另外其他條有類似的這樣一個想法 那是另外的"},{"start":3153.647,"end":3176.499,"text":"現在這一條是說其他的委員會能不能參加交通委員會的這個調閱小組那我一再的表明這個都有相關的一個基本的會議的規範那你沒有這樣處理那就請海運長來成立調閱委員會啊成立院級的啊這個都要符合基本意識的一個程序了"},{"start":3178.763,"end":3178.863,"text":"第三點"},{"start":3206.57,"end":3226.458,"text":"照委員李昆哲等7人提案文字通過第三點本小組由交通委員會以下簡稱本會全體委員組稱之宣讀完畢好這樣可以啊好就照李昆哲召委這個提案通過第四點先讀一下"},{"start":3229.574,"end":3254.633,"text":"委員魯明哲等8人提案第4點本小組是召集人一人由參加本小組成員互選負責處理小組事務並代表本小組對外發言委員李坤哲等7人提案第4點本小組召集人由本會召集委員二人按召集委員輪子表輪流擔任處理本小組會務並擔任會議主席宣布完畢"},{"start":3257.964,"end":3274.588,"text":"好,這裡面就是國民黨的版本就是一狗,民進黨的就是兩狗,一狗跟兩狗,有沒有意見?一狗還是兩狗?國民黨講一狗,你們說兩狗?發言,來,進行委員"},{"start":3293.175,"end":3307.33,"text":"在交通委員會基本上如果我們內部設立一個調閱小組其實都是各黨互相尊重因為你召委也不能決定調閱的最後結果召委只是一個排案權"},{"start":3308.803,"end":3320.361,"text":"那在過去啦都是會互相尊重啦我舉個例子啦像那個疫苗的調閱小組當時國民黨也是要求希望再增加一個召委蔣萬安"},{"start":3321.594,"end":3348.648,"text":"民進黨也接受也尊重也就是說在委員會裡面基本上都是你只要有政黨的人在裡面我們都會彼此尊重甚至有認為在過去的案例也曾經有三位召委的調會小組一位兩位三位都曾經都有這個是我們自己討論但我覺得以目前我們交通委員會的話至少要兩位召委"},{"start":3349.881,"end":3349.901,"text":"國民黨"},{"start":3376.673,"end":3394.25,"text":"謝謝主席我們這個提第4點是希望能夠適合召集一人其實也是左眼調閱小組能夠發揮實際的功能因為剩下4月開始大概時間快到就剩下8週了再加上可能休假的部分其實能夠"},{"start":3395.131,"end":3410.924,"text":"去調閱處理有些實際結果後面討論分析甚至全交通委員會大家討論做成最終的一個決議真的都需要時間那現在這樣的一個有劇情有脈絡的案子如果這個禮拜掉了"},{"start":3411.584,"end":3411.944,"text":"新澤你等一下"},{"start":3438.55,"end":3456.271,"text":"這個兩個召委,疫苗那個調閱小組是經過政黨協商的勒?你這個兩個召委的話,兩個召委會打架勒?互相協調,互相協商怎麼協調?我跟李公哲不會打架啊我跟李公哲不會吵架我們吵架也不會啊"},{"start":3456.86,"end":3468.804,"text":"沒有 是啦我們連吵架都不會啊 所以是啦 所以兩個遭遺互相對啊 那個政黨有協商欸阿就協 大家互相協賞沒有 議會裡面協商啦對啊好 我們這條先保留嘛好不好好 先保留 先保留對啊 我就說齁多數黨不尊重少數黨那民進黨以前就是這樣子嘛對不對 有啊 那個"},{"start":3486.179,"end":3514.624,"text":"這條先保留好不好第4條先保留等一下討論第5條先讀委員魯明澤等8人提案第5點本小組會議需由委員1 3分之1出席風格開會其決議已出席委員過半數同意行之但在場出席委員不足3人則不得一決並要使得以命名會議方式行之委員李坤澤等7人提案第5點本小組會議需由委員1 3分之1出席風格開會"},{"start":3515.564,"end":3528.39,"text":"其決議已出席委員過半數,是同意行之,但在場出席委員不足三人則不得一決。宣讀完畢好,各位有沒有意見?這裡面就是秘密會議的問題了必要的時候就秘密會議齁各位委員有沒有意見?民進黨的委員秘密會議應該沒事吧?其實講是講秘密,其實都沒有秘密啦我跟你講"},{"start":3548.789,"end":3563.095,"text":"我們的房間裡面的秘密外面都會知道的好 這個第4條就照魯明德委員的喔 第5喔 第5要先讀一下嗎 要不要先讀 來"},{"start":3566.69,"end":3586.264,"text":"第5點照委員魯明哲等8人提案通過本小組會議須有委員三分之一出席方得開會期決議以出席委員過半數同意行之但在場出席委員不足三人則不得一決必要時得以祕密會議方設行之宣讀完畢好我們修正通過第6條宣讀一下"},{"start":3592.918,"end":3611.585,"text":"委員盧明哲等8人提案第6點本小組會議有關聯署或附議人數準用本院跟委員會會議之規定委員李坤哲等7人提案第6點本小組會議有關聯署或附議人數準用本院跟委員會會議之規定。宣布完畢第6條是"},{"start":3618.482,"end":3628.288,"text":"第6條都一樣有 一樣有要討論嗎 有沒有意見 沒有意見 你們討論一下 不用討論 怎麼可以不用討論"},{"start":3633.146,"end":3657.029,"text":"新聞新聞新聞委員我剛剛對第4第5條有意見你就不讓我講現在第6條文字都一樣大家都沒意見啊沒意見你還講因為你你稱呼我啊請我講話啊我尊重召委主席我比較喜歡新聞委員講話謝謝啦第6條再讀一下來修正通過讀一下"},{"start":3657.779,"end":3671.013,"text":"第6點照兩版本通過本小組會議有關聯署或副議員數準用本院各委員會會議之規定宣讀完畢好照兩版本通過第7點宣讀"},{"start":3676.434,"end":3682.896,"text":"委員魯明澤等8人提案第7點本小組運作期間至民國113年3月27日至113年5月31日當今本小組決議得延長至資料查閱時間為每週一至週五上午9時至"},{"start":3692.74,"end":3715.494,"text":"下午5時委員李坤哲等7人提案第7點本小組運作期間自民國113年3月27日至113年5月31日但經本小組決議得延長至資料查閱時間為每週一至週五上午9時至下午5時宣讀完畢這裡面一個阿拉伯一個是本國的有沒有意見"},{"start":3721.818,"end":3746.481,"text":"什麼沒有?這裡面一個是阿拉伯字的,你們要阿拉伯的還是這個的?還是用國字的?要不要表決這個?不要吧?我不敢決定了用阿拉伯?照李昆哲委員阿拉伯出自,先讀一遍"},{"start":3748.547,"end":3761.857,"text":"第7點,照委員李昆澤等7人提案通過7本小組運作期間至民國113年3月27日至113年5月31日當今本小組決議得延長至資料查閱時間為每週一至週五上午9時至下午5時宣讀完畢好,第7條照李昆澤委員的阿拉伯宣讀的通過修正通過下第8點宣讀"},{"start":3777.799,"end":3791.27,"text":"委員李坤澤等8人提案第8點本小組成員行使查閱權時應親自為之並署名於查閱登記部查閱人員負保密義務對機密文件不得抄錄攝影影印訊讀錄"},{"start":3795.78,"end":3822.25,"text":"錄音或為其他複製行為亦不得將文件稀釐查閱場所或泄露至前項機密文件如被調閱機關拒絕提供時該機關應領書面4名機密資總列性質範圍解密時間以及揭露將至深不利益之原因必於3天內送交本小組存查委員李坤澤等7人提案第8點本小組成員行使查閱職權時"},{"start":3824.491,"end":3843.806,"text":"因親自為之並署名與查閱登記簿查閱人員負保密義務對機密文件不得抄錄、攝影、影印、送讀、錄音或其他複製行為亦不得將文件稀釐查閱場所或洩漏之宣讀完畢好,各位有沒有意見可不可以做委員會議嗎?好"},{"start":3853.863,"end":3855.975,"text":"等一下輪到發言委員好不好 會議長等一下齁"},{"start":3857.062,"end":3883.416,"text":"好針對這個要點第8其實這個兩個版本的前半段是一樣的那後面最主要是因為我們真的在NCC聽到太多了這個不能這個機密但是我們現在機密文件那就請被調閱的一個機關如果你真的拒絕或者不能提供的時候請你說明理由啦讓我們至少知道發生什麼事因為是提供了之後會產生的什麼樣的一個"},{"start":3884.256,"end":3887.697,"text":"我的看法是這樣子啦你寫了這麼一大堆還不如如果要這樣寫不如就直接寫說要說明原因啦要書面說明原因啦"},{"start":3912.452,"end":3931.383,"text":"因為你規範了一大堆你未竟事項你沒有列到的時候不是製造麻煩嗎就它的原因是什麼就是說明一下嘛如果不能提供的話前項機密文件如被調閱機關拒絕時該機關應以書面說明原因這樣就好了啊"},{"start":3942.273,"end":3970.121,"text":"那就是機密之種類機密之種類性質範圍解密時間及揭露將至生不利益之原因就這幾個字啊?不利益這個其他會員能不能保留啊?"},{"start":3971.912,"end":3974.434,"text":"所以原因就含括所有"},{"start":3998.206,"end":4019.359,"text":"我覺得這還好啦 這個這個我們調閱小組我們要叫你拿東西你不拿出來那不開玩笑來魯迪哥來那沒關係其實這個都真的是可以討論啦齁我這個那我們是不是在這裡建議一下齁這個前項機密文件如被調閱機關拒絕提供時該機關亦輸命是明機密的種類原因齁"},{"start":4021.546,"end":4023.488,"text":"總類及原因總類及原因總類及原因總類及原因"},{"start":4041.368,"end":4049.132,"text":"那魯明德委員的意思是說市民機密是種類型原因那後面蔡議員所講的性質的範圍解密時間絕對刪掉了齁"},{"start":4056.116,"end":4063.842,"text":"必於三天內送交本小組存查。這個是魯明哲委員所堅持的齁?這個OK吧?三天內嗎?你來搞三個月三天內?我只是在不清楚說因為剛剛魯明哲委員講了"},{"start":4074.25,"end":4100.481,"text":"機密之種類及原因那機密之種類所謂的種類到底指稱的是什麼種類不就是密件及機密最高機密那就是機密啦那幹嘛還要分種類我跟你講嘛剛才其實其他副院長已經講了嘛性質範圍啊什麼已經該畫的都畫掉了嘛你現在連個種類及原因都不讓他寫的話那"},{"start":4103.394,"end":4129.08,"text":"我只是想請教種類因為它就是機密文件阿你所謂的種類是在管理裡面是怎麼分級阿我只是不阿都是叫機密文件阿可是你在後面已經我們已經堅持說他3天之內要把這一個說明要送下我們小組存查啦"},{"start":4130.452,"end":4130.632,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":4161.312,"end":4184.06,"text":"我個人建議齊常委員你總類不寫的話那沒關係啦主席那個其實小提議啦你表決一下就好了啦阿第二個就是說齁那個三天內這個要表決不要吧三天內是三個工作天還是三天內沒有就下雨不要嘛要列清一票嗎不要吧"},{"start":4186.062,"end":4214.315,"text":"三天嘛 三天三個工作天還是三天 三個日曆天好了嘛 三個日曆天對 要講清楚好不好 三個日曆天 派人家去派就只剩兩天 人家是要怎麼扶啊不扶對我們 如果下雨就沒有 颱風就不要餒是不是還碰到清明節掃墓也不要餒不是啊 你那個天就是 日曆天比較好啦那當然囉 日曆天包六日餒這有什麼關係 他給加班費啊 那沒事啦"},{"start":4215.305,"end":4241.253,"text":"沒有啦,不要讓公務當年,你說叫人來加班,這個我們大家壓力很大嘛,你清明節少婦叫人來加班他也睡不著覺啦,他回去也睡不著覺啦我跟你講啦沒有啦主席,這樣我如果這樣就要標革了啦,我不想...工作天就不表決是不是啊不是啊,你工作天不表決可以啦,但是那個新巡委員剛剛提到說他覺得不需要再多寫那個種類啦,這個不然你表決一下就好了啦"},{"start":4244.366,"end":4255.411,"text":"好啦 工作天 宣討一下來總理要啊 總理平嘛 總理不要啦 總理不要啦 總理要就要表決總理你說表決沒關係 如果沒有表決一次啦 表決一次"},{"start":4262.925,"end":4290.122,"text":"不然再修一下好不好不是啊 這個等一下要保留到後面去了這過濾過了嘛那如果保留我們那麼努力講了半天以書面市民機密等級這樣可以嗎機密等級然後原因我不知道這樣可不可以因為我的意思是說原因就含括所有的啦就是原因你要來跟我講原因我當然你講原因我問你說你為什麼不能給我你說他是極機密我就問你是不是極機密他說機密怎麼辦"},{"start":4291.99,"end":4320.749,"text":"對 所以嘛你的原因就含括所有的事情了嘛重點你要他來說明原因不能說你沒有任何原因就不提供給交通委員會阿不提供給調閱小組你一定要規定一個那你其他沒規定到是不是我就不用遵守民主委員怎麼樣保留阿中文保留阿"},{"start":4323.184,"end":4327.885,"text":"總理有堅持嗎?副院長你要堅持嗎?不是啦 我的意思是說齁如果沒有被盧委員規範到的他可不可以不要提供"},{"start":4349.366,"end":4363.284,"text":"如果沒有被盧委員規範到總類性質範圍解密時間沒有規範到的原因他可不可以不提供因為我們是把人家明白的列出來你要提供什麼"},{"start":4364.846,"end":4381.497,"text":"我的主張是把這些拿掉只講原因,就是說你要告訴我原因嘛對啦,因為你可能知道的比較多一點,所以你這裡面也是防範一些問題發生,是不是?我們這裡是還沒有去發現他的問題,你可能已經知道裡面一些問題了"},{"start":4389.48,"end":4407.95,"text":"來總內兩個字來嗎要不要舉手來表決一下也可以啊他等於有問題在總內啊先保留啊剛才那個比較單純的這個已經搞了老半天了來這個先表決一下總內兩個字要或是不要要的話請舉手我能不能舉13567好這是要的不要的請舉手"},{"start":4419.522,"end":4437.8,"text":"不要的一、二、五個嘛好就表決了嘛,表決總列還是要啦齊昌哥也沒話講了這樣齁五比七五比七齁好不好好來另一邊來另一邊"},{"start":4439.65,"end":4465.484,"text":"第8點照委員魯明哲等8人提案修正通過在第一項的部分未修正第二項修正為前項機密文件如被調閱機關拒絕提供時該機關應以書面4名機密之種類及原因並於3個工作天內送交本小組存償宣布完畢"},{"start":4468.966,"end":4493.639,"text":"第9案,念一下委員魯明哲等8人提案第9點本小組對外新聞得以本會名義為之委員李坤哲等7人提案第9點本小組對外新聞得以本會名義為之本小組成員未經決議不得以本小組名義對外發言宣布完畢好,各位有沒有意見坤哲委員"},{"start":4500.837,"end":4516.021,"text":"我是希望大家能夠遵照作為參考我的提議就是本小組對外新聞得以本會名義為之本小組成員未經決議不得以本小組名義對外發言"},{"start":4519.272,"end":4521.154,"text":"都是要有共識、決議才對外發言。"},{"start":4534.505,"end":4542.355,"text":"你這就多寫幾個字而已啊有什麼要緊是啊你講不好要緊你就給我加一尾啊來那個民主委員發言"},{"start":4549.625,"end":4566.338,"text":"好 謝謝召委因為在我的版本第4點裡面事實上因為是保留嘛但保留這邊在我們設計召集人的時候藝人參加本小組的成員互選之外他本身的責任我們已經寫在裡面了"},{"start":4566.678,"end":4571.98,"text":"他負責處理小組事務以及代表本小組對外發言"},{"start":4587.364,"end":4587.384,"text":"蘇貞媛"},{"start":4608.818,"end":4631.397,"text":"謝謝主席那我想就是昆澤趙薇的版本第9條的版本其實是一個更明確的一個規範因為我想就是說我們也希望我們小組的成員能夠遵守就是因為到時候如果說各自對外發言的話我想這樣子都是一個傷害所以我們希望就是說有更明確的一個規範我想這個也沒有什麼差別"},{"start":4632.177,"end":4659.826,"text":"大山召委這個是調閱小組我們任何對外的發言都必須經過委員會有共識或者是決議再來對外發言這個應該是調閱小組成立的一個基本的規範以上其實棍子召委我要講白一點你這個決議就是表決嘛還有什麼勒是不是"},{"start":4660.871,"end":4682.791,"text":"比兩個召委的話你如果是兩個召集員的話那問題可大了兩個召集員怎麼兩個召集員意見不一致他還是要有一定的共識要有共識怎麼會有共識呢不管你有沒有你用表決的這個也是你們的一種不追求共識的方式這個是政治現實的問題嘛"},{"start":4684.272,"end":4695.4,"text":"那我還是認為他還是要經由委員會有共識或是決議不管你是不是表決這個一定要有這樣的一個基本的規範明確委員要發言的"},{"start":4697.721,"end":4697.881,"text":"第4點與第9點"},{"start":4728.281,"end":4735.507,"text":"暫保留第10條先讀委員魯明哲等8人提案"},{"start":4739.52,"end":4762.569,"text":"第10本小組調閱文件之對象為國家通訊傳播委員會經濟部公平交易委員會但今本小組決議亦得增加調閱對象本小組你調閱之文件應經本小組三人以上提案通過或召集人合併後向有關機關調取之本小組調閱文件以調閱文件之副本為原則"},{"start":4763.749,"end":4780.003,"text":"委員李昆哲等7人提案第10點本小組調閱文件之對象為國家通訊傳播委員會但經本小組決議得增加調閱對象本小組調閱文件之範圍及相關事宜須經本小組之決議宣讀完畢好 各位沒意見國民黨沒意見 民進黨"},{"start":4794.522,"end":4817.21,"text":"好那其實我覺得我的提案是比較清楚的簡單清楚就是我們對象是國家通訊傳播委員會但是經本小組決議得增加調閱對象那本小組調閱文件之範圍及相關事宜須經本小組之決議這清楚又簡單嘛請大家採納民眾黨有沒有意見"},{"start":4824.912,"end":4848.269,"text":"好,謝謝趙委員這個我想這個我還是覺得羅明哲委員的版本相對來講比較完整的因為現階段今天為什麼之所以要調閱鏡電視的這個事情就是因為涉及到除了NCC之外包含公平交易委員會跟經濟部的這個包含說裡面的股權結構等等的我想這都跟目前表定上的NCC經濟部公平交易委員會有關係所以我覺得"},{"start":4848.729,"end":4848.749,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":4879.729,"end":4905.801,"text":"有一個問題我請教一下魯明哲委員魯明哲委員的提案他說因今本小組3人以上提案通過或召集人合定後向有關機關調取之這個召集人他不用經過小組的決議或者是共識去來調入其他的相關的文件嗎或是召集人他自己合定就可以"},{"start":4906.861,"end":4935.667,"text":"是這個我們提這個要點的最主要的一個精神事實上還是要扯回到第4點因為我們已經授權召集人去處理小組的事務了所以說如果他在處理的事務中間對於現在已經調來的文件他有覺得哪些有缺失不足的部分他在處理這個事務中他可以直接去增加一些訊息在調閱這個部分這是在第4條本來就有一些授權"},{"start":4936.667,"end":4937.428,"text":"徐助協委員"},{"start":4965.718,"end":4989.336,"text":"主席大家好我是這樣子建議因為召集人總是要以大家的共識為意見召集人不是算出來就是最大是他在召集大家做回共同參考意見所以也是要三人以上提案通過你如果說召集人可以自己核定的話就召集人最大自己決定所以我是覺得這樣比較不適當"},{"start":4992.915,"end":5007.612,"text":"好啦,這裡面民進黨決議委員發言就是說趙季恆權力太大的意思是不是這樣?權力太大是不是?我們沒有這樣的意思啦,趙季恆你也清楚啦"},{"start":5009.836,"end":5038.214,"text":"那我是不是能夠這個因為這個其實是公式版啦要徵求大家的意見就是說那我們就修正一下事實上召委經過選舉出來要找三人連署其實也不是難事啦那我們也不要在這中間造成更多的一個爭議嘛所以是不是能夠這個第6項部分本小組你調閱之文件應經本小組三人以上提案通過調取之"},{"start":5039.395,"end":5054.914,"text":"好就就召委這個這一段喔 好沒有 名者你本小組3人以上提案通過就是我們的第二小組的成員大家通過"},{"start":5060.543,"end":5061.764,"text":"我們都尊重召委"},{"start":5078.453,"end":5097.953,"text":"稍為是一個重要的職務但是我們都 交通委員會是追求共識跟決議調閱小組這個是很重要的一個精神調閱小組的成立必須要有決議或者是共識所以我們對於名者他現在調整他的相關的文字我認為是可以接受的"},{"start":5100.356,"end":5108.106,"text":"不是啦,昆喆大委用你的版本也OK啦但是就是要加一個經過三人小組以上提案通過"},{"start":5111.684,"end":5125.118,"text":"主席啊,我們的決議不是都三人提案然後通過不是,我們在裏面運作就是這樣子的啦,所以有什麼跟沒什麼其實也不一定要寫,都一樣嘛,因為我們本來在觀議就是這樣觀議嘛,就是我們三個提案大家通過,本來在裏面的運作就是這樣啦"},{"start":5136.071,"end":5162.112,"text":"其實輪委員這個版本他很明確的這三個單位有連貫性的他把它書面化那反而就是我們崑澤昭維這裡他提的你比較比較籠統範圍比較大所以有必要再來調但是他這個只有限定這三個三個除了有必要他才去開會去追加"},{"start":5163.432,"end":5192.078,"text":"所以我是覺得魯明哲委員這個版本會比較明確但是我個人的認知這個召集人是下設在兩位交通委員會召集人底下其實他的做法就很簡單他還是要對兩個召集人負責的所以其實大家也不要怕因為這種東西掉回來掉回來他自己一個人也不能去做決定"},{"start":5193.318,"end":5198.442,"text":"所以我是覺得魯文哲委員提出這個版本是較為完整啊這樣啦魯委員齁你這裡釣一個對象這邊有什麼國家通訊傳播委員會 經濟部 公民交易那坤澤招委這邊有可以增加齁他決意可以增加釣一個對象齁"},{"start":5220.058,"end":5221.079,"text":"本小組調閱文件之對象為國家通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":5245.051,"end":5257.637,"text":"經濟部公平交易委員會但經本小組決議亦得增加調閱對象接下來第二項的部分本小組擬調閱之文件應經本小組三人以上提案通過調取之"},{"start":5279.355,"end":5307.948,"text":"然後這個那個本小組又一個本小組那也不要了本小組調閱文件然後直接調取之這個調閱之文件之副本為原則看看最後怎麼論一下虛心本小組不願意啦就其他人通過三人通過還要虛心本小組的決議好不好那面好不好來"},{"start":5315.492,"end":5339.562,"text":"第10趙委員魯明哲等8人提案修正通過第一項未修正第二項修正為本小組擬調閱之文件應經3人以上提案並經本小組決議通過調取之調閱文件以副本為原則"},{"start":5343.515,"end":5344.319,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5350.919,"end":5376.812,"text":"主席啊我有一個小小建議啦你參考一下啦傳統上我們在寫這個應該是要本小組調閱之文件對象為國家通訊傳播委員會但經本小組決議亦得增加調閱對象因為我們是針對國家通訊傳播委員會去通過鏡電視的所以我們在規範上我們是國家通訊傳播委員會是我們主要的對象但"},{"start":5378.786,"end":5380.887,"text":"本小組決議亦得增加調閱對象"},{"start":5408.564,"end":5432.54,"text":"當初NCC在這個案子上面一直說他們的文件是在其他的部會包括經濟部包括公共交易委員會所以我們這次在列這個條例的時候特地把公共交易委員會我只是讓大家參考我沒有堅持啦我只是跟大家參考說我們每次都要挑一兩個來寫啦其實我們只要淡下去就全部了"},{"start":5434.461,"end":5436.203,"text":"就剛才議事委員面的修正通過齁"},{"start":5456.792,"end":5463.812,"text":"有沒有意見 沒意見好 到議員那個齊山副院長所講的我們可以列入參考"},{"start":5475.39,"end":5497.556,"text":"委員魯明哲等8人提案第11點本小組會議召開時的邀請被調閱文件資機關首長率統有關人員列席說明,屬邀請者非有正當理由不得拒絕出席及說明委員李坤哲等7人提案第11點本小組會議召開時的邀請被調閱文件資機關首長率統有關人員列席說明宣告完畢好,各位有沒有意見"},{"start":5504.13,"end":5524.417,"text":"那個我們民進黨怎麼...這裡面就受邀者非有正當理由啦這幾個啦找他來不來啊借故推啊這沒事嘛齁應該都會來啦"},{"start":5528.53,"end":5539.197,"text":"主席啊 這個就是要多寫喔第11條 第11條大家沒什麼意見嗎我沒意見啦 但是你要多寫齁 等一下就是其他的條文在處理上大家也都依照這個原則 因為大家建立在對"},{"start":5542.54,"end":5565.405,"text":"大家都覺得多寫大家好像內心比較安啦所以像李昆哲委員也有一些大家認為多寫嘛齁所以我的意思說等一下處理的時候那個多寫的只要不影響本意的應該都不要太多的堅持啦好啦好啦第11屆我們就照照那個誰啦李明哲的版來唸一下"},{"start":5566.789,"end":5594.002,"text":"第11點,造委員魯明哲等8人提案通過。第11點,本小組會議召開時得邀請對丟用文件資機關首長率統有關人員練習說明,受邀請者非有正當理由不得拒絕出席及說明,宣布完畢。好,我們的修正通過,第12點念一遍魯明哲的委員魯明哲等8人提案第12點,本小組等一下,剛才是魯明哲的修正通過,好念第12點"},{"start":5596.941,"end":5599.705,"text":"第11點照委員魯明哲等8人提案通過第12點宣讀委員魯明哲等8人提案第12點本小組為"},{"start":5610.676,"end":5635.706,"text":"為因調閱文件需要得付相關單位查訪並得訪談與本案相關之人事或諮詢專家學者本小組會議召開及調閱文件時得聘請專家學者陪同調閱及針對調閱內容表示意見前向專家學者之人選以二人為限由召集人提名全體本小組成員表決之宣布完畢"},{"start":5638.789,"end":5651.027,"text":"好,各位沒意見?民進黨委員沒意見喔?好,沒意見我們就照人民的委員的提案通過齁?反對"},{"start":5657.811,"end":5669.441,"text":"十二項法律要保留十三這裡還有一個十二李昆德委員提的十二另一邊"},{"start":5671.969,"end":5689.538,"text":"委員魯明哲等8人提案第12點保留,第13點被調閱對上在調閱期間應指派專人將定義文件送達指定場所以供查閱並負管理及保管責任"},{"start":5691.263,"end":5714.683,"text":"委員李坤哲等7人提案第12對照委員李坤哲等7人提案第12點對調閱對象在調閱期間應指派專人將調閱文件送達指定場所一共查閱,並派員管理及付保管責任。宣布完畢好,一個有派一個沒派要不要派"},{"start":5720.407,"end":5735.592,"text":"國民黨有沒有意見?派也不派都沒意見喔?那郭澤東也是要派嘛齁?郭澤東你要派還是不派?要派啊?要派就要派嘛。那就照要派的,來。"},{"start":5737.642,"end":5739.103,"text":"12條照李崑澤委員的版本提案"},{"start":5767.57,"end":5776.619,"text":"點次再調整?好OK那現在第幾啦?第14啦?好先錄一下14"},{"start":5793.21,"end":5821.019,"text":"先宣讀魯明哲委員等8人提案第13點通過文字通過委員魯明哲等8人提案第14點本小組提出之調閱報告書及處理意見經小組會議決議並由召集人合併後提報交通委員會全體委員會議作為處理相關議案之依據委員李坤哲等"},{"start":5821.879,"end":5847.534,"text":"對照委員李坤哲等7人提案第13點本小組提出調閱報告及處理意見應經本會決議調閱報告書及處理意見為提出前工作人員專業人員保管人員或查閱人員附有保密之義務不得對文件內容或處理情形予以揭露涉及依法令依秘密事項者應予保密並以秘密會議處理之宣的完畢"},{"start":5849.54,"end":5876.332,"text":"各位沒意見?這個就是蔡徐昌副委員長講的你多寫一點比較安心嘛,是嗎?昆哲來,寫,欸,那個誰?我沒有什麼反對意見,但是我要跟召委報告,那個魯明哲委員的14條加16條應該等於比昆哲委員的13條所以這兩案要不要一起看?謝謝昆哲委員"},{"start":5882.372,"end":5907.18,"text":"其他委員怎麼講可以啦,因為看要處理14加16兩條還是把它合合為一條啦16有些體調上面的對照是不是那昆哲把兩條合為一條啦那就就16跟13合為一條嘛16跟14喔"},{"start":5914.011,"end":5919.635,"text":"我們就原來14跟16合在一起,然後對岸那個13嘛齁,那這樣做哪一條通過13?"},{"start":5924.522,"end":5926.284,"text":"委員吳明澤等8人提案第14點以及第16點對照委員李坤澤等7人提案第13點"},{"start":5946.673,"end":5974.272,"text":"協商結果照委員李坤哲等7人提案第13點通過本小組提出調閱報告及處理意見應經本會決議調查報告書及處理意見為提出前工作人員專業人員保管人員或查閱人員附有保密之異物不得對文件內容或處理情形予以揭露涉及依法令應秘密事項者應以保密並以"},{"start":5974.972,"end":5993.577,"text":"秘密會議處理之宣布完畢。好,照李昆哲委員的第3點通過。那15點跟14點,冷明哲委員的15點跟李昆哲委員的14點請宣讀。"},{"start":5997.97,"end":6024.88,"text":"委員魯明哲等8人提案第15點本小組所需工作人員由本會職員擔任必要時得依立法院資權行使法第49條規定請求院長指派專業人員協助對照委員李坤哲等7人提案第14點本小組所需工作人員由本會職員擔任必要時得依立法院資權行使法第49條規定請求院長指派專業人員協助宣布完畢"},{"start":6027.972,"end":6053.489,"text":"好這兩條是一樣的齁這各位沒意見嗎齁沒意見但12條其實就是這一條啦為什麼我們反對是因為立法院資源新司法第49條裡面就講明了嘛專家學者期就是有需要我們會計師啦律師啦或者其他人他裡面有規定嘛請求院長指派專業人員學助資嘛所以12條不應該再立啦意思是這樣子好"},{"start":6056.852,"end":6057.192,"text":"好,15、14通過15、14通過現在唸17、15來,議員唸17、15"},{"start":6079.075,"end":6105.336,"text":"先宣讀委員魯明哲等發人提案第15點對照委員李坤哲等7人提案第14點均通過繼續宣讀委員魯明哲等發人提案第17點本運作要點由本會通過後施行修正時已通對照委員李坤哲等7人提案第15點本運作要點由本會通過後施行修正時已通宣讀完畢"},{"start":6108.088,"end":6136.38,"text":"連體應一模一樣一個字都沒動那這個就沒意見了吧這我們就通過通過再回頭處理第四什麼九十二九哪有喔九九九九保留十二沒保留嗎十二沒保留嗎十二保留什麼十二"},{"start":6138.524,"end":6138.944,"text":"主席這個是這樣子啦齁"},{"start":6163.553,"end":6175.721,"text":"過去立法院有一個也有兩個也有三個啦你把所有調閱小組的資料拿出來就可以發現了那以最近社會爭議最大的這個疫苗採購的調查當時民進黨是多數黨"},{"start":6181.169,"end":6209.375,"text":"國民黨是少數黨但國民黨很堅持讓蔣萬安委員也來擔任召委所以國民黨堅持兩個人當時民進黨表示尊重所以最後由蔣萬安委員跟莊敬成委員兩個人共同擔任召委我想這個是一個態度啦就是國會多數黨過去是民進黨國會多數黨可以主導議事決定生死的是國民黨那國民黨面對立法院的少數黨"},{"start":6210.752,"end":6223.578,"text":"國民黨的態度是什麼我相信這個是社會在看啦大家都面對共同這個是立法院是公開透明嘛大家都在看所以本席會主張嘛"},{"start":6225.297,"end":6252.683,"text":"過去民進黨是多數黨我們願意禮讓這就是對權力的謙卑啦現在國民黨面對一樣民進黨提了兩席國民黨是要在這裡爬到高櫃放那三個在這裡標刮標刮一個當然這個也是國民黨的決定啦這個也列入紀錄嘛這個也是國民黨的決定嘛所以我想社會大家今天在看的是這個問題啦所以本席啊還是希望說過去"},{"start":6254.076,"end":6280.328,"text":"有競爭但也有相互大家這個多數黨尊重少數黨的案例所以是不是以比較好的運作的這個方式主席你的過去一直希望交通委員會的運作方法所以呢是不是用兩席來作為這一個這個調閱小組的這個召委這是本席的主張跟建議謝謝齊長委員我跟你報告一下齁"},{"start":6281.994,"end":6301.889,"text":"疫苗調閱小組那個時候正好在選舉之前嘛是不是那時候說真的執政黨也有你們的壓力在啊你能夠不公布嗎?你能夠不公開透明嗎?那有他的問題而且那由政黨協商那是院裡面政黨協商來那個的這個現在選舉都結束了齁"},{"start":6305.572,"end":6308.233,"text":"我非常公道的我想大家相處那麼久了是不是"},{"start":6324.719,"end":6345.688,"text":"這個案子因為國民黨內部有共識希望召集一位就好了因為你兩位的話到時候兩個又在吵架什麼事情都要去那個我覺得NCC這個我們像什麼弊端什麼我都不講了是不是"},{"start":6346.978,"end":6359.352,"text":"這個閉端沒有證據的東西大家都讓了啦也都讓了現在就是說在他行政程序上有沒有瑕疵啊或是大家社會大眾啊對他們的疑問啊"},{"start":6360.991,"end":6376.83,"text":"這個如果有不對的地方這個提出來也是好事嘛 對不對對執政黨也是一個鞭策也是一個好事啊這有什麼不好勒我做以上的意見因為我要對副院長剛才提的那個話很像我們國民黨人家度量不夠齁"},{"start":6378.426,"end":6404.553,"text":"對不起對不起這個我們今天的決定齁其實也是建立一個國會尊重彼此尊重一個慣例啦以後哪一個政黨都可能多數啦那以後如果多數黨沒都比照像我們今天這樣子我會愛上的衝啊對不對"},{"start":6408.393,"end":6433.082,"text":"沒有任何一個政黨會永遠多數啦所以我們現在要建立一個慣例啦這是我們大家共同責任啦我們在委員會裡面啦以前其實幾乎沒有表決的啦你上屆幾乎沒有表決嗎?幾乎沒有表決還有隨便人家啊不然如果今天我建議委員會不要表決如果你一定要用不然你還是送政黨協商嘛你就比照疫苗交組"},{"start":6434.898,"end":6441.51,"text":"我去一下 去一下因為我跟你講嘛 當下的壓力 政治壓力都不一樣嘛 你了解沒有而且我覺得這個 這個 這個 這個 這個"},{"start":6445.342,"end":6470.109,"text":"好,魯米格委員發言好,謝謝昭偉我想剛剛這個議題其實討論滿久的就是大家其實人數不同啊都沒有人錯啦但是因為我在交通委員會嘛那跟學生昭偉也是我們一起見證剛剛我們蔡副院長說的包容在交通委員會沒有發生過我們在去年調閱小組成立兩次當時多數黨的包容沒有展現"},{"start":6471.309,"end":6483.855,"text":"全部都是用表決、碾壓式這個我相信他都在現場所以不好意思啦因為在交通委員會沒有看到說我們在去年成立兩次調閱小組的時候然後可以這樣通過討論不用表決可以通過"},{"start":6487.356,"end":6502.77,"text":"所以我覺得這個調閱小組我覺得還是就一個人就好了第二個呢因為我們永遠記得我們不管在立法院有多少人我們現在是在野黨我們在野黨我們要調閱對象是執政的政府這很清楚的這沒有什麼退讓空間謝謝謝謝那個昆德文好沒關係"},{"start":6511.892,"end":6539.624,"text":"就這樣我在這邊當召委請你相信我好不好我們不會用很粗暴的方式你們以前表決也又不是沒表決過是不是不會用很粗暴的方式去處理這個事情我們其實讓真相如果有什麼行政程序不當的事情我們不講說弊端啊有什麼行政程序不當的我們把它抓出來大家都是一些警惕嘛也沒什麼不好啊是不是"},{"start":6550.385,"end":6566.693,"text":"主席我還是支持召集人是藝人因為我說實在話你兩人的話其實我們是下這委員會這個召集人沒有像大家想的那麼恐怖最後還是要我們委員會來議解"},{"start":6568.194,"end":6592.509,"text":"所以責任的問題我還是支持我們魯明哲議員的意願所以如果其他的考慮我是認為我們連弊案都沒有堅持都把這個拿掉了所以我還是認為再真的不行表示一點意見我認為就進行表決好 各有堅持 崑哲偉"},{"start":6594.52,"end":6622.987,"text":"好 朝偉剛才提到有關選舉是不是一種壓力其實我們都在建立委員會專業問政跟相互尊重這朝偉跟我在這邊都十幾年了我們都希望交通委員會是一個追求共識的一個決定的地方那剛才朝偉提到說選舉前成立什麼調閱小組了那去查一下是專案報告還是調閱小組這個可以去查"},{"start":6623.667,"end":6630.356,"text":"那剛才魯敏哲委員提到說過去民進黨在相關的這種調閱小組輾壓這個國民黨所以你們現在要輾壓民進黨這個大家可以讓社會來共同討論"},{"start":6642.892,"end":6655.356,"text":"我現在還是要說我們的交通委員會現行是兩名的召委兩名的召委我們成立調閱小組也應該遵循這樣的一個基本的方向跟邏輯來處理兩個召委的問題兩個召集人的問題以上是我的建議"},{"start":6660.839,"end":6685.593,"text":"好 謝謝現在槍指不下我想這個問題沒有公示先就李明哲李明哲委員建議召集人產生一位我們進行表決好不好沒有就表決一次好不好"},{"start":6687.134,"end":6714.164,"text":"這冷冰車委員贊成冷冰車委員召集委員一個一位請舉手好1234567位齁七位嘛齁七位那不贊成的一位不贊成的請舉手1237位七位那那我就加入"},{"start":6719.198,"end":6736.774,"text":"7比8是8比7啦8比7那我們就魯明哲委員召集人一會通過不過坤哲委員我跟你報告齁我們大概相處那麼久了請你相信我好不好不會那個啦我們大家非常的和諧啦不管推舉誰當召集人"},{"start":6740.489,"end":6767.732,"text":"那怎麼辦?那是要吵架?要打架?還是幹什麼?那就不好了吧?是不是?我們交通委員會也沒這樣啊以前那第9案第9點齁第9點本小組對外行為得以本會名譽為之齁這個剛才也是保留了齁那如果莊議員就一位嘛是不是?"},{"start":6774.057,"end":6789.475,"text":"這個不得對外發言經過決議不得對外發言這個也用表決方式我們同意魯明哲委員得以本會名義這個相關的對外新聞以本會名義為之"},{"start":6790.456,"end":6819.13,"text":"我們的小組成員未經接我們是調閱小組呢今天不是一般委員會開會的調閱小組你要對外發言你沒有經過大家的決議或共識就要以本小組的名義對外發言這樣對嗎?喔 這樣可以討論齁這個我們你可以用個人名義發言嘛每個人都有自己的自由但你不能用小組的名義嘛這最基本的啦你憑什麼代表小組對不對這個是小組的共同體沒有人有沒有意見"},{"start":6821.932,"end":6848.21,"text":"你好委員好不好好我們尊重昆哲委員的版本好不好這要李昆哲委員了嘛這還是決議吧好不好未經決議不得以本小組比例對外發言要不要表決不用表決了吧好要念一遍嗎意思同意念一遍第9點以李昆哲委員的版本念一遍"},{"start":6850.655,"end":6872.271,"text":"第9點,照委員李昆澤等7人提案通過。第9點,本小組對外行文得以本會名義為之,本小組成員未經決議,不得以本小組名義對外發言。宣布完畢。好,這個就照我們李昆澤委員的意見通過。好,那第12點。12點。"},{"start":6880.034,"end":6882.457,"text":"剛才民進黨有意見嗎?12點有意見請發言立法院齁"},{"start":6891.818,"end":6910.427,"text":"調查小組基本上立法院職權行使法有第49條有很明確的規定這個規定就是說調閱委員會及調閱專案小組於必要時得請求院長指派專業人士協助之我想立法院職權行使法第49條很明擺的寫嘛"},{"start":6913.12,"end":6938.5,"text":"所以沒有什麼叫做我們還要成立調閱小組還要請專家學者還要什麼兩人為縣專家學者提名有召集人提名之本小組成員表決之這個立法院整體委員會第49條就寫到清清楚楚嘛好 國民黨咧國民黨有沒有意見不過這也是補足他專業不足的看法是不是這樣"},{"start":6940.882,"end":6955.732,"text":"不是啦 就是你有需要沒有意見嘛 職權刑罰就跟你說 你去叫韓院長嘛 請韓院長派指派專業人員協助啊 哪有什麼叫做調查小組還要再主席不是啦 就職權刑罰第49條 主席啊 49條白鑽黑鑽寫在這嘛"},{"start":6963.146,"end":6989.429,"text":"這感覺我本時就已經念過了還要再問說為什麼還要這阿這49條寫在這啊其實啊 盧委員提這個是從49條那邊抄下來啦他只是明確化而已啦他抄什麼啦 他抄什麼啦49條他抄什麼院長指派韓院長指派是大家不相信韓院長會派嗎那是要請求對不對"},{"start":6991.386,"end":7012.753,"text":"就專業人員的指派有一個程序在立法院執行司法裡面寫主席你那個15條及12條你們自己的版本不是那個主席國民黨那個李明哲兄的版本是12條跟15條那剛剛其昌提到的是我們的14條嘛"},{"start":7015.151,"end":7032.818,"text":"那也就是說我們的14條跟你們的15條是一樣的嘛那你們的12條其實就是從15條這邊延伸的嘛那15條這一條已經在職業信使法已經寫得很清楚了所以你是在15條內又寫12條出來嘛"},{"start":7035.779,"end":7038.34,"text":"我跟各位報告啦因為其實第15條那些是工作人員"},{"start":7063.248,"end":7088.616,"text":"12條這裡是有關寫者專家所以這兩者是不一樣的12條所有沒意見"},{"start":7093.806,"end":7115.118,"text":"好,12條,12條,那大家都有意見,那就表決嘛好,專長、人民主席、委員、12條,請舉手7位那好,請放下,反正也請舉手好,也是7位嘛齁接著交我一個8比78比7就通...照人民主席委員的通過齁"},{"start":7116.651,"end":7117.592,"text":"各位喔第4月跟第9啊"},{"start":7145.56,"end":7152.931,"text":"第4條裡面不要經過決議就可以對外發言喔?第9是要經過決議才可以對外發言?"},{"start":7158.024,"end":7179.857,"text":"喔 那成語小組就不一樣嘛齁好 那就不管他了 來第4點那要推舉召集人各位 由政黨推舉還是個人來舉手發言舉手推舉國民黨有沒有推舉誰 國民黨委員推舉林國昌委員國民黨還沒有誰要推舉誰 民進黨有沒有推舉誰"},{"start":7191.161,"end":7214.418,"text":"國民黨民進黨推選李昆哲委員齁好,林俊賢委員推選陳雪昇委員那我推選林俊賢委員齁都這樣啊我要投你喔欸我推選你的話那票就不夠了這樣齁"},{"start":7221.019,"end":7247.068,"text":"盡量力來出力喔好啦現在推舉我們想推舉林國成委員的贊成請舉手1234567反對林國成的委員的請舉手好 贊成李昆哲委員的請舉手1234567"},{"start":7250.256,"end":7259.632,"text":"那我就加入沒有沒有7比7那我就支持林國正委員8比7"},{"start":7261.763,"end":7285.859,"text":"謝謝,抱歉啦,謝謝本來要支持你的,你提醒我了好,選單完成了齁,針對本案做以下的決議鏡電視深色及後續爭議調閱專案小組運作要點訂定通過那麼授權議事員依序調整各點規定點次本任議程處理完畢,散會"},{"start":7290.435,"end":7290.976,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":7314.309,"end":7314.809,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":7352.566,"end":7361.551,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7382.333,"end":7384.455,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7394.582,"end":7407.79,"text":"法定人數不足"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}