{"error":false,"id":["157722"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157722,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157722","日期":"2024-12-03","影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-12-03T10:44:16+08:00","結束時間":"2024-12-03T11:04:53+08:00","影片長度":"00:20:37","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/28156fb6ec38ead338f0bcb40e40637013383a67259e8158646969efc120b5e7d354354e2f17e0785ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"10:44:16 - 11:04:53","會議時間":"2024-12-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.89034375,"end":13.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.450968750000001,"end":14.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.778468750000002,"end":32.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.56596875,"end":37.290968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.37534375,"end":41.492843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.509718750000005,"end":41.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.610968750000005,"end":43.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.22659375,"end":68.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.23534375,"end":71.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.29409375,"end":74.75346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.95596875000001,"end":76.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.87971875000001,"end":88.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.30409375,"end":92.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.02909375,"end":114.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.37596875000001,"end":115.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.47284375000001,"end":116.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.45159375,"end":123.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.67409375000001,"end":125.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.01971875000001,"end":129.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.32284375,"end":133.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.22534375,"end":137.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.59596875,"end":146.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.11346875,"end":151.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.26471875000001,"end":153.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.93096875,"end":154.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.04909375,"end":154.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.72409375,"end":154.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.77471875,"end":154.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.80846875,"end":154.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.82534375,"end":154.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.94346875000002,"end":155.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.02784375000002,"end":195.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.35471875000002,"end":201.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.11346875,"end":207.18846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.44159375,"end":232.93971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.63159375,"end":243.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.87471875000003,"end":246.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.74346875,"end":292.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.98096875000005,"end":297.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.87471875,"end":340.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.18034375,"end":394.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.90596875,"end":341.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.46721875000003,"end":409.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.66721875,"end":441.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.64971875000003,"end":443.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.92784375,"end":446.86409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.91471875,"end":447.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.31534375,"end":449.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.45034375,"end":471.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.82221875000005,"end":478.43721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.84221875000003,"end":488.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.91659375,"end":500.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.13846875,"end":500.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.50971875000005,"end":508.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.54221875,"end":535.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.8290937500001,"end":561.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.96846875,"end":569.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.64659375,"end":574.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.8103437500001,"end":612.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.52596875,"end":617.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.7065937500001,"end":618.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.87534375,"end":641.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.8684687500001,"end":636.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.95596875,"end":649.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.6003437500001,"end":649.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.1572187500001,"end":670.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":671.16659375,"end":685.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":685.40909375,"end":686.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.19784375,"end":698.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.60534375,"end":738.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":738.95346875,"end":745.61909375},{"speaker":"S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請院長邀請王被提名人麻煩再請王教授"},{"start":22.973,"end":48.692,"text":"總委員好王盛輝提名人早安那您此次就是被總統提名就是第十四屆的這個考試委員那我看了一下這個名單就是您是總統提名的這九位裡面就是會繼續連任的就是其中兩位的為二的其中一位那我也看了一下您的這個學經歷都非常的優秀"},{"start":49.492,"end":62.216,"text":"那因為你也擔任過了就是第13屆的這個考試院的委員所以本席在這邊是不是可以請你先說一下您在第13屆任內就是說對於整個這個考試院這個國家考試有什麼具體的一個事蹟讓國人能夠了解一下好 我簡單講就是說因為我第一次進院會的時候就發言建議我們考試院或是考選部"},{"start":79.192,"end":80.112,"text":"Iwan NawiIwan Nawi"},{"start":100.418,"end":122.996,"text":"與兩位委員及考選部長,我們也跑了40幾家學校透過電腦化市場的建立,到目前為止應該有超過本來是6215個位置,現在大概有到16000個座位數所以可以考試的類科越來越多,我想這是我們努力的一個成果"},{"start":123.817,"end":152.239,"text":"那另外就是因為我剛好也是護理醫療專業所以我們在第13屆考試院的實習其實遇到的疫情剛好是兩年多所以我透過這樣自己過去的醫療專業防疫的一些專業也提供了一些相關的考試考選這些考試院的一些相關的措施的建言"},{"start":155.981,"end":182.991,"text":"我們知道考試院就是要替我們國家臨聘這個就是這個優秀的公務人員這個人力進入這個公部門來服務那政府要提供人民這個優質的一個公共服務所需這個人力資源是非常的一個重要可是我們也看到最近幾年就是有關國家考試這個公務人員的考試而錄取不足額的情形就是"},{"start":185.896,"end":192.727,"text":"從2020年至2023年公務員高普考錄取不足爾的情形每年錄取不足爾人數"},{"start":197.198,"end":202.923,"text":"2021年不足有293人2020年有209人2021年有293人然後2022年有30人2023年有268人今年2024年有361人"},{"start":213.812,"end":215.553,"text":"王被提名任因為你也擔任過一屆的考試委員對於這樣的一個情況您的看法如何"},{"start":233.883,"end":262.14,"text":"因為第13屆考試院團隊也非常關心這個問題持續在關注這樣的一個議題所以如果以未來如果普遍性的高普考的人數當然有一些很多的策略就是怎麼樣宣導怎麼樣跟學校合作怎麼樣跟機關合作等等這個是普遍性的問題但是這裡提到就是不足的人數"},{"start":263.061,"end":278.134,"text":"不足耳的人數也有經過分析就是缺耳最多就是土木工程、建築工程類似這方面工程的所以當然就是說這方面要怎麼樣解決其實也提出了一些策略"},{"start":279.655,"end":281.436,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":297.927,"end":313.958,"text":"有出去了還有一種就是我們發現就是說土木工程這類的人呢大概越偏遠地區的越缺人所以也是往都市流動那很多種種的原因呢也修了一個叫做"},{"start":314.658,"end":339.501,"text":"專計人員轉任公務人員條例也希望對於這些不足爾機關非常困擾那怎麼樣去有一個多元彈性的禁用管道讓他們一進來的時候他的官等就稍高比如說7等或是8等還有他的升遷等等我們就是做了一些彈性的措施"},{"start":340.262,"end":356.842,"text":"這可能要多方面去做一個檢討我們本期也有發現到其實隨著時代的一個進步整個社會形態也都會跟著改變尤其是現在是Z世代因為我們知道整個目前新進公務人員已經"},{"start":358.423,"end":358.864,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":379.262,"end":389.512,"text":"所以在這個部分是不是也是會造成就是說新的年輕人比較不願意進入到公部門服務是不是也有這樣子的一個因素背景因素"},{"start":390.256,"end":409.451,"text":"在這個部分就是請教王被提名人就是說在就這樣子的世代差異那公部門在管理作為跟組織文化上應該要做怎樣的調整才能夠提高年輕人投入公職的一個意願然後讓組織內跨世代工作者之間能夠有好的一個互動"},{"start":411.778,"end":432.655,"text":"確實這個議題非常重要我們除了怎麼樣領選出來這樣的好的國家的人才其實留任也非常重要讓他們流動不要那麼快因為現在進到公務體系的人越來越多是Z世代剛剛委員有提到他們所謂的"},{"start":433.195,"end":434.336,"text":"Iwan Nawi"},{"start":448.771,"end":474.35,"text":"作為我覺得這個模式一定要改變我們不能再用過去比較權威式或是科程主義的方式來對待這樣新世代的年輕人那可以給他們更多的發揮空間然後讓他們從這樣的發揮呢然後可以怎麼樣可以讓他們得到這種工作的價值跟意義那所以我覺得當然很多還可以然後"},{"start":475.951,"end":476.352,"text":"尊重職場環境"},{"start":500.729,"end":509.598,"text":"對於整個公務體系的人力的資源我們除了考試來禁用新進的人員對於現有的公務人員他們的升遷也好、調動也都非常重要"},{"start":521.77,"end":546.953,"text":"在幾年前我們有看到一個現象就是在2010年開始就是六個直轄市陸續設立所以也產生了一個現象就是說整個造成一般縣市非直轄市的縣市副主管級的園耳還有植物列等沒有隨之調整所以造成六都對鄰近縣市公務人員"},{"start":547.614,"end":547.814,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":567.962,"end":584.978,"text":"我本席看到資料剛開始行政院就同意了可是考試院那時候是有一些意見的不過後來也同意了就是說對於科長級或者是副局處首長的我們有調整了他的職務的列等可是就是說對於"},{"start":586.019,"end":589.381,"text":"王貝提名人王貝提名人王貝提名人"},{"start":615.852,"end":616.132,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":642.092,"end":655.91,"text":"葛欣剛委員講的課長是以前就已經處理了那我們這一屆大概就是說委任的本來有一個上限那現在委任的百分比就有一點調降"},{"start":657.992,"end":683.949,"text":"委任條件有什麼好處就是讓上面那一集的很重要的中間的專員跟記證他就有調升的空間當然是植物獵等也考慮到職者程度、業務性質還有其他機關的層次所以我覺得未來如果還有不足的地方確實也要看看直轄市跟縣"},{"start":687.631,"end":697.712,"text":"指甲式跟縣市政府之間的差異還有中央跟地方的差異當然可以來逐步來檢討這是我覺得也相當重要的一個議題"},{"start":698.817,"end":723.635,"text":"我是覺得說因為都是要為這個百姓服務不能讓公務人員有那種就是好像同工不同酬的那樣子的一個差別待遇同樣有面對的這樣繁重的一個就是公務就是選民的一個就是百姓的一個工作要做可是他們得到的一個不管是值等或者是薪資"},{"start":724.535,"end":738.606,"text":"都跟這個中央或者是直轄市差距太大的話我想這樣子是不公平的所以我們也希望就是說針對這個部分我們未來考試院也可以做進一步的一個檢討然後跟調整這樣子"},{"start":740.639,"end":763.937,"text":"接下來本席想關心一下有關護理師人力缺口的問題本席其實我們在基層做的選民服務也經常會面臨到鄉親請託可能他們的親人或長輩在急診室住了兩三天了結果都還等不到病床要我們去拜託"},{"start":764.677,"end":789.236,"text":"那我們替他關心的時候醫院其實他們也是很為難因為他說其實就是因為這個護理人員不足的問題所以也是就是無可奈何那當然在這樣的情況下我們本席有看到就是王貝提名人也是醫護專業的這樣子一個背景然後也當過衛生署的副署長那在剛剛"},{"start":792.698,"end":802.923,"text":"在第13屆的資歷裡面好像有針對護理方的部分提出了12項的策略這部分是不是也可以請你再先簡單講一下"},{"start":804.978,"end":830.275,"text":"我想這個是行政院已經合備通過就是十二項的護理人力的整備計畫那其實是未服部體但是呢因為裡面牽涉到人才培育人才培育就包括教育部然後到考選部之後才到職場那職場當然是有包括很重要的就是職產"},{"start":832.436,"end":848.712,"text":"職場的改善這個是目前護理人力我想最關心的問題就是說他們的負擔然後就是薪資的改善這三大塊那職場的改善當然三班戶並比所以三班戶並比是還沒入法"},{"start":849.252,"end":874.768,"text":"如果入法的話可能護理人力的需求會更重要所以剛剛委員提到的為什麼護理人力是非常重中之重因為它是第一線而且它是受法規約束你如果護病病沒有達標的話醫院就要關床所以我想最近可能委員也都會聽到很多找不到床醫師沒有辦法開刀然後都留在急診"},{"start":875.669,"end":900.407,"text":"因為他不能收病人依法是不能收病人因為沒有護理人力所以我想這個是我為什麼我覺得非常關心就是教育部、考選部跟衛福部要共同來尋求解方那考選部去年就已經增加第三次有一些民眾或是媒體誤解"},{"start":901.588,"end":929.237,"text":"說是放水放寬其實是沒有的大家去看看那個考試的題目還很多的老師跟學生說現在的題目是非常的臨床情境式的還要思考的題目所以是沒有所謂比較放寬但是呢11就是說11月的已經考完了快放吧11月的第3次的護理師國家考試"},{"start":930.197,"end":957.637,"text":"有很好的效益為什麼因為他是7月畢業生還沒考上他只要兩三個月再充斥結果很多學校知道這樣又把這些沒有考上的學生叫到學校去輔導所以我們去年11月第三次的考試通過率是比較高就是因為他重考是38算通過率很高了那挹注了將近2700多人"},{"start":960.194,"end":978.06,"text":"所以這個是對於人力是真的是缺口是有幫忙的所以大家就是教考訓用一定要共同來尋求一些解方對就是剛剛王貝提名人有提到這個教考訓用這樣子的一個連結非常的一個重要"},{"start":978.94,"end":982.904,"text":"這個會牽涉到教育部、考試院、之後職場的連結所以這樣子的連結溝通可能也是涉及到部會關係就是之前的溝通平台這個也是非常重要"},{"start":996.538,"end":1008.405,"text":"本席想再請教一個問題就是說在我們看到前任的薛瑞文部長他任內的時候他有提到說公戶護理師要達到50%的比例這個問題就是說明年公職護理師比例要升到50%的問題這是去年講的"},{"start":1020.572,"end":1021.173,"text":"護理人員要進到公部門"},{"start":1039.795,"end":1054.888,"text":"普遍性叫公職護理師但是呢我們公職護理師是另外有高考三級是不同的考試他是經過公務人員任用所以他是屬於公職護理師那缺額是"},{"start":1058.731,"end":1082.122,"text":"競爭非常激烈但是這是一個很好的管道我也希望人種或是各機關是不是能夠釋出更多的缺另外公子護理師就是另外的一個軌道叫做護理人員他有經驗了他是從醫事人員人事條例進去的"},{"start":1083.12,"end":1099.825,"text":"那醫事人員人事條例進去就是我們所謂的10級嘛13級、12級、11級那大部分從這個就是說如果醫療體系他有缺額或是一些其他的那個機關適用醫事人員人事條例的人"},{"start":1101.966,"end":1113.305,"text":"他就會公開甄選然後聘用那這些所以那個薛部長講的是這些因為很多的醫院是用約聘僱人員"},{"start":1114.397,"end":1115.958,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":1135.192,"end":1154.686,"text":"謝謝未來就是在新的一屆這個部分那剛剛其實就是說在剛剛的王貝提名人的回覆裡面有提到就是包括高補考這個不足的問題就是有很明顯的這個類別的有差異性那剛剛有提到這個"},{"start":1156.187,"end":1181.977,"text":"教考訓用的連結其實這個都會凸顯出其實我們現在在整個公部門的一個職場就是這個女性的在不同類別的女性比例跟男性比例有一些差別所以這個跟整個優良的一個就是職場環境也會有很大的一個差異那這個部分我不曉得說我們考試院可以有什麼樣的一個做法努力的方向"},{"start":1182.819,"end":1211.903,"text":"我一直都非常注意這樣的訊息就是說因為我是非常代言性別平等所以考試院的各項數據我都非常注意但是我們有一個很好的現象就是說最近檢任官女性的檢任官已經差不多40%了所以這個就是說已經有讓她有升遷而且可以擔任高階文官這個是非常重要的"},{"start":1214.097,"end":1232.983,"text":"好 我們也希望就是說在新一屆的這個考試院在你們的這個努力之下可以讓我們的國家經用更多優秀的公務人員然後提升整個公部門的一個效率那也感謝你們好 謝謝陳素玥委員的資訊也謝謝王教授的備詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}