{"error":false,"id":["157723"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":157723,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157723","日期":"2024-12-03","影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-12-03T11:05:05+08:00","結束時間":"2024-12-03T11:25:51+08:00","影片長度":"00:20:46","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/28156fb6ec38ead3b2b582fca067906013383a67259e8158646969efc120b5e7672d3be51d7c13475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"11:05:05 - 11:25:51","會議時間":"2024-12-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.2878437500000004,"end":7.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.775343750000001,"end":16.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.48409375,"end":17.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.45846875,"end":23.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.58846875,"end":42.336593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.66971875,"end":44.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.462843750000005,"end":51.314093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.314093750000005,"end":65.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.13034375000001,"end":90.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.10534375,"end":97.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.26471875,"end":108.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.55409375,"end":127.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.43721875000001,"end":152.51346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.33221875,"end":185.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.21284375000002,"end":214.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.68096875,"end":217.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.49909375000001,"end":225.36284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.76784375000003,"end":243.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.61721875,"end":252.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.90284375000002,"end":255.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.51034375,"end":259.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.48409375,"end":262.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.00659375000004,"end":280.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.71284375,"end":282.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.04596875000004,"end":311.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.19721875000005,"end":316.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.21346875,"end":334.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.10534375000003,"end":351.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.31784375,"end":361.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.59471875,"end":378.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.60034375000004,"end":394.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.63159375000004,"end":450.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.69034375,"end":453.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.96846875000006,"end":480.19221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.19221875000005,"end":498.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.58596875,"end":501.99471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.31534375,"end":533.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.1584687500001,"end":537.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.48284375,"end":542.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.64221875,"end":544.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.32971875,"end":570.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.7265937500001,"end":573.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.1147187500001,"end":582.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.85534375,"end":613.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.6315937500001,"end":611.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.79159375,"end":614.3484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.9265937499999,"end":629.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.7847187500001,"end":631.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.1897187500001,"end":631.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.3415937500001,"end":631.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.4428437500001,"end":631.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.4597187500001,"end":631.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.0334687500001,"end":702.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.52284375,"end":633.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.32409375,"end":635.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.6553437500002,"end":705.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.81096875,"end":709.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.9622187500001,"end":711.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.73409375,"end":712.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.21909375,"end":731.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":732.08534375,"end":732.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":733.4015937500001,"end":738.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.15596875,"end":748.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":748.13346875,"end":756.1828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":757.29659375,"end":760.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.7178437500002,"end":762.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.19034375,"end":766.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":767.3203437500001,"end":778.8797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":778.9978437500001,"end":780.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.19159375,"end":787.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":785.1740937500001,"end":785.56221875},{"speaker"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請王秀紅備提名人麻煩再請王教授備選各位好王教授好"},{"start":18.696,"end":41.783,"text":"教授最近有一則新聞吸引了我去點閱想跟你分享網路PTT有在討論有關於年輕人對於公務人員鐵飯碗這一個部分大家都覺得已經不再是鐵飯碗而且還有點生鏽很多人在網路上討論說考公務人員的CP值降低了這則新聞你有看過嗎"},{"start":44.533,"end":64.727,"text":"我們考試院其實對於媒體對於公務體系的一些相關訊息也都會掌握那像在上一屆您就擔任考試委員那有沒有可以讓國人更加清楚了解考試院的到底有沒有什麼具體的一個作為讓我們能夠以以為傲您可不可以舉例一下"},{"start":66.395,"end":83.403,"text":"因為就是說PPT或是什麼都會有一些不同的聲音所以在考試院也希望能夠讓數據說話所以會做一些研究因為有時候是個案幾個個案這樣子當然就是說"},{"start":86.464,"end":107.657,"text":"整個未來年輕人怎麼樣吸引年輕人或是建立這樣年輕人在公務體系的價值這些也非常重要黃教授不好意思我的問題是上一任你在擔任考試委員的時候有沒有更具體的作為考試院有什麼樣的一個政策讓國人有感你可以說出來舉例一下嗎"},{"start":108.755,"end":126.605,"text":"因為我們就是因為年輕人有這樣的不同的聲音所以我們就會用各種方式到學校去宣講然後讓大家看到說公務人員他其實他的價值然後公務人員的考試還有就是說"},{"start":127.546,"end":151.383,"text":"我們也檢科嘛檢科也是年輕人因為到學校去也聽到說他們的需求跟他們的關心就認為說科目太多那當然就是還有一些考試的方式等等那是不是盡量用數位化這個他們是比較喜歡的這種數位化的"},{"start":151.783,"end":179.281,"text":"我還是沒有聽出來就是說在上一任有具體的一個作為您所提到的可能檢科考試的一個問題但是我想實際跟民眾的有感還是有一定的差距後續我有幾個問題想跟你請教我想在這一次考試院長被提名的周弘憲過去曾經表態考試院的存在不是考試公平以及文官中立的必要條件那也有委員在上週問他周弘憲曾經說過去對這部分沒有思考若大家有共識"},{"start":180.382,"end":197.793,"text":"會尊重所以11月26號也有委員在提到問考試院的副院長問說這個部分廢考試院的一個相關問題那副院長提名人在說我國五權憲法設計特殊世界各國大部分都是三權分立的憲法結構"},{"start":198.854,"end":216.876,"text":"如果在這方面的檢討針對五權憲法跟三權分立有所討論不需要考試院存在那就做調整看起來大家對考試院的存在都有一個模擬兩可的一個定論唯一能夠確知的就是社會大眾同意廢考監那考試院的大家都會尊重"},{"start":217.617,"end":238.222,"text":"那麼我想從您的自傳可以看出您與民進黨的關係也非常的密切您在扁政府時期承認副署長衛生署的副署長將近四年多民進黨的委員在第八屆曾經提廢考監因民進黨的黨綱也是往三權分立來做一個推動那麼本席想請問你幾個問題第一現階段您贊成廢考監嗎請就問題直接回答謝謝"},{"start":244.79,"end":261.641,"text":"我想現在就是依據憲法就是五權分立所以站在考試院的立場就是要把就是憲法一憲法當然我可以認同但是我要了解蔚蘭您的態度所以我想請問一下您支持廢考監嗎"},{"start":264.059,"end":279.21,"text":"我覺得非考也不是考試院的職權如果說立法院或是各界大家都有比較大的共識然後如果啟動我想考試院永遠的職責就是行使"},{"start":280.731,"end":306.913,"text":"考試院的職權一定要維護我想您的回答有一點更模擬兩可我要再次的強調剛剛我說的被提名人周弘憲他是考試院的院長提名人他就說了他會問考試委員的意見那當然他會尊重考試委員而現在我在問考試委員而每一個考試委員都說他會尊重社會大眾那到底最後決定的是民眾嗎那考試委員都不需要任何的表態嗎所以我想就問題來回答"},{"start":307.335,"end":316.49,"text":"您支不支持廢考監可不可以直接回答我支持或不支持這不是一個陷阱題我只是想知道您的態度而已"},{"start":317.338,"end":344.024,"text":"我覺得依據現在就是五權五權那如果說未來社會的共識是要往三權的話我覺得考試院的職責還是要無縫接軌就是說各種配套措施一定要銜接這是我目前的想法我想之前就有考試院的院長就有說他是末代院長的一個準備那我想任何人的一個發言我們並不會批評我們只是想知道態度"},{"start":344.644,"end":360.937,"text":"因為我們要去了解被提名的人到底他的態度是如何才可以了解我們該不該行使這個權利去投票那我們要知道到底要支持還是反對所以我想您的態度很重要那我想若您贊成的話我先當作您贊成好不好"},{"start":361.698,"end":378.42,"text":"若您贊成的話請問您擔任這個任務型的考試委員您覺得為國家的文官制度發揮有什麼樣的一個作用您能依據您過去的學習以及經歷以及國家的考選制度做什麼樣的一個貢獻以及改革這個部分能不能分享一下"},{"start":379.83,"end":394.004,"text":"國家的考選非常重要所以我過去就是以符應現在Z世代的需求那就是電腦化跟數位化的考試還有就是希望能夠增加"},{"start":396.34,"end":417.793,"text":"公務人員、高階公務人員的參與﹐讓我們的考試更多元、更彈性﹐符應現在的需求﹐就是增加口試的占比﹐或是一些英文的占比﹐這是考選方面﹐當然是其實考選非常重要的﹐就是整個試題的品質﹐還有跟專業團體的對話﹐這是考選的部分﹐當然公務人員﹐"},{"start":424.036,"end":448.904,"text":"就是公務人員的保障跟培訓也非常重要那我過去就我的專業呢我在也是因為認為性別也就是說考試院的施政綱領很重要就是人權跟性別平等的弱勢所以我就我的專業呢我也協助邀請就是性別平等相關的專業委員我們嚴寧初"},{"start":454.139,"end":479.819,"text":"這是法定訓練各層級不同的法定訓練的性別教材案例去年已經實施課程所以這個課程跟教學的滿意度非常高那當然整個考試院是一個合議制那有關考權保訓的議題我們都是會有相關的建議或是相關政策的推動"},{"start":480.579,"end":501.42,"text":"這個部分我先補充一下剛剛我說若您贊成我假設您是贊成但是我為什麼要假設您是贊成我要先再提醒你一次2020年您被提名時曾經回應過非考試院是社會關注的一個議題如果立法院提出修憲尊重並且支持這是您當時所講過的一個話"},{"start":503.102,"end":524.06,"text":"轉型的過渡期對於考試各家的權益保障仍需持續推動我想換到2024現在這個問題依舊在這邊我們希望您能夠面對問題提出問題的解決方案這是我們現在現階段很重視的一個那麼未來如果真的修改憲法變成三權分立的時候對於考試院的考試"},{"start":524.821,"end":544.352,"text":"用人、訓練以及公務人員的保障、權序徵還有權序的部分的體制未來的轉型改革您本人有什麼看法因為如果未來要轉型其實考試因為考試院是國家最高考試機關所以對於就是"},{"start":545.373,"end":569.47,"text":"我們的公民的考試權、扶公子的權益是非常重要的所以或許未來如果要轉型當然不可能沒有業務都一定在那考試院這個考選部這個國家考試或許可以一個怎麼樣的獨立機關因為現在考選部的國家考試我相信是受到社會大眾非常的信任"},{"start":570.951,"end":579.747,"text":"認為是公平公正好 那我請問一下考試院現在執掌的例如考選跟保全在未來的三權分立的制度下應該由何一個機關來做一個執掌請問你有曾經思考這個問題嗎"},{"start":583.945,"end":613.317,"text":"所以我說考試制度可能是一個獨立機關因為它比較是一個獨立行使職權的機關那其他的就是權序的問題或公務人員保障跟培訓或許可以跟行政院共同來討論因為跟行政院人總或是怎麼樣讓他銜接會比較好這個就是變成大家要共同坐下來討論跟一些權宜跟配套措施"},{"start":613.877,"end":627.827,"text":"我想您是唯一有護理及公共衛生背景的一個被提名人承認衛生署的副署長在高一大副校長及臺灣護理學會的理事長具有護理師、證照等本席想請問你有聽過波波醫生嗎有"},{"start":632.66,"end":648.295,"text":"這個是長期關注的問題最近大家都很關注所以我想問你一個問題最近有一個判決揭露台北高等行政法院在111年數字第259號的一個判決內容提到有一位波波醫生Z先生他赴波蘭就讀一學序"},{"start":648.996,"end":667.494,"text":"一入學就直上三年級他在一天內考試、面試、入學一次搞定六年制的醫學系他從三年級入學只讀三年半就畢業結果返國後無法報考國考取得國內醫師執照後來因為執政黨的立委主導修法醫師法"},{"start":669.336,"end":679.402,"text":"終於考取了反過來提告請求損害賠償相當於一年住院醫師的薪資損害並請求利息向考試院求償180萬元當然後來法院駁回了"},{"start":684.264,"end":706.021,"text":"不僅如此波波醫生近年來遭到媒體揭露多起的醫療疏失以及臨床的傷亡另外我們也都知道另外凡有國外的學歷者回台考試前其所持的國外學歷都必須經過一個學歷查證的認定審核機制以及程序賴清德總統也曾經說過也承諾了針對國外的學歷審查會更加的嚴謹並將含授遠距教學以及對"},{"start":713.626,"end":725.553,"text":"為對外公開的招生學歷資格予以排除提高了對國家考試的一個門檻上一屆您也是考試委員應該也很清楚波波醫師的爭議不斷那麼針對這樣的問題您對未來考試資格的規劃有什麼具體的一個做法好 謝謝委員"},{"start":733.444,"end":760.489,"text":"因為醫師的考試資格特別是定定在醫師、亞醫師、中醫師都一樣就是定定在醫師法所以如果以因為用人主管機關它有它的規範那如果是要報考就是醫師的資格考試就要在就是"},{"start":762.295,"end":780.341,"text":"考選部就是依據醫師法的資格就是外國的國內當然沒有問題國內都很清楚因為學制都一致那針對外國因為學制非常不同所以就會有一個審核機制"},{"start":781.261,"end":796.431,"text":"您講這個我們都知道我現在就是嚴格審查您知不支持有沒有具體的一個作為所以呢因為這個是我覺得就是醫師的職業是關乎到我們國人的健康跟生命安全所以您支持嚴格審查嗎"},{"start":798.012,"end":823.897,"text":"確實是應該要嚴格審查我想國家禁用人才啊如何能夠適才適所我們都一直很關心之前考試院也有提過也有討論到強化用人機關參與選才的一個機制但被民眾批評是大後門時代全審以及任用是考試院重要的一個權責但本席近來發現未不多起自行審任資格任用的約聘"},{"start":824.977,"end":836.623,"text":"為考試院第十四屆院長．茲依據憲法增修條文第1項規定：提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長．許舒翔為考試院第十四屆院長．邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧．許舒翔為考試院第十四屆院長．許舒翔為考試院第十四屆院長．"},{"start":851.537,"end":869.015,"text":"委員提到的可能如果是衛福部應該就是一些醫院的用人醫院用人因為牽涉到醫事人員人事條例那是另外一塊但是現在為什麼12項整備計畫就是裡面有一項公職護理師"},{"start":870.376,"end":898.247,"text":"要提升因為大部分的醫院其實不管是衛福部、教育部或是國防部啦、退服會他們都是有相關的醫院嘛那些醫院其實確實是用大量的月聘僱人員尤其是護理人員回大照確實就是說應該是在合理的範圍應該讓他們變成正職所以我點出的問題您也有發現"},{"start":899.468,"end":917.893,"text":"而各部會都有這樣子大量聘用約聘顧我希望考試院能夠去協助並且能夠去幫忙補救這些作為自行認定的部分書有缺失所以我希望考試院在五院之一也佔有重要的一個角色應該去協助各部會這部分您可以認同嗎"},{"start":918.946,"end":938.201,"text":"認同那再來勞動部的霸凌事件有一件事情大家都沒有注意商調中的過程需要用人機關同意過調的一個時間如果過調時間為四個半月到半年等同被動使需要的機關放棄錄取"},{"start":940.948,"end":961.843,"text":"這個部分我想在過程當中我們都有看到案件申請商調者被迫繼續待在遭霸凌機關讓商調的制度等同於是上調的制度您覺得考試院在商調的制度可以有什麼作為您有看到問題嗎確實我以前也有關注這個問題比如說因為要"},{"start":965.109,"end":991.356,"text":"要撫養三十歲以下的小孩等等的需求所以我覺得未來當然是因為這個是用人機關他的權限或是說他有沒有符合這些要商調的公務人員的需求我覺得未來這一塊我們可以有一些追蹤機制或是怎麼樣讓他更符合這些公務人員的需求我覺得確實要被關注的"},{"start":991.735,"end":1013.019,"text":"我想大家關注在霸凌以及後續的一些處理程序以及協助這些被霸凌者能夠借助他但是商調的這個部分我們看到層出不窮的一個問題所謂的需求機關不斷地提出需求但是用人機關不斷地不放人造成這個過程當中有急迫性的家庭需求"},{"start":1013.749,"end":1041.115,"text":"或者是個人因素甚至是遭霸凌的這些人到底要怎麼樣在商調的時間、過程能夠來去幫忙他們我想在這個部分上我點出了問題我希望有具體的作為來協助他們所以貝提們我點出了這些問題您說您也關注但有沒有具體的方法後續能不能看到有排列這樣的工作去做討論、去做協助您願意承諾嗎"},{"start":1042.729,"end":1067.057,"text":"我覺得這個未來確實是應該追蹤機制為什麼商調不成那些原因我覺得確實因為現在公務人員的為了要商調我想有時候是養育小孩或是說因為照顧父母等等有各種家庭的因素或是個人的因素確實應該受到一些相關的保障或是關注"},{"start":1068.319,"end":1079.293,"text":"好再來目前國考的錄取率在部分的錄取率極高的一個狀況之下以112年為例勞工、財稅、行政近10%經濟行政15%公職受益55%"},{"start":1083.826,"end":1102.823,"text":"技術類的平均20而護理近50%但報考人數竟確切的下降請問是否會發生考試通過考試的數值低落間接促使公部門在服務的品質能夠下滑未來有什麼改進的方法"},{"start":1105.121,"end":1126.661,"text":"我想這個因為每個類科﹐他的考試規則跟資格﹐不太一樣有時候就是說﹐看需求面﹐還有市場面﹐譬如說護理師﹐他的錄取率﹐如果相較於﹐及格率﹐如果相較於其他醫事人員﹐"},{"start":1127.702,"end":1147.77,"text":"像醫師90幾或是有一些都不太一樣那物理治療師他就可能20幾營養師也是20幾所以從及格率來看其實有時候很難對應到他的品質問題是用人機關的需求他的核心職能是什麼"},{"start":1148.81,"end":1170.331,"text":"所以每個考試的類科他有他的考量所以他到底要怎麼樣的入局要怎麼樣的及格率都有各種不同的規定好 那這個問題就點出了我想護理人員的工時長壓力大、風險高薪資報酬不成比例勞動條件不佳這大家都知道導致護理人力"},{"start":1171.151,"end":1189.105,"text":"長期的短缺本期諮詢前有先發文請你提供對於相關事項的一個回應就如同你剛剛所提到的核心職能這個是你所關注的可是之前考選部為緩解護理師人力不足的一個問題考選部突然降低了護理國考的一個門檻把難度"},{"start":1191.026,"end":1210.477,"text":"較高的基礎醫學比例調降結果被網友跡下乾脆取消國考這也跟你回復說要提升題庫試題質和量的事件有一點矛盾我想請被提名人能夠清楚簡單的明確回應降低考試難度解決護理人力短缺是正確的方向嗎"},{"start":1211.437,"end":1220.563,"text":"好 這其實是有一些誤解那那個降低那個基礎醫學的占比已經沒有了那但是我們希望就是說基礎醫學其實是要連場運用"},{"start":1237.648,"end":1242.253,"text":"謝謝羅廷偉委員的質詢也非常感謝我們被提名人王秀紅教授請坐"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}