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李宗盛"},{"start":1953.035,"end":1961.175,"text":"好,我們請組密報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員與組法定人數好,我們現在開始開會請議事人宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1963.188,"end":1990.585,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議施錄時間中華民國113年3月25日星期一9時至13時57分中華民國113年3月7日星期三9時至12時52分地點群仙樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福等14人列席委員黃國昌等26人列席官員113年3月25日星期一行政院主席總署主席長朱哲銘金融監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧"},{"start":1991.265,"end":2009.416,"text":"國家通訊傳播委員會副主任委員翁柏中．法務部常務次長黃謀信．數位發展部政務次長李懷仁等113年3月7日星期三．行政組織總處組織長朱哲銘．奧運堂總裁楊金隆．經濟部政務次長曾文森等．主席羅昭紀委員明財113年3月25日報告事項"},{"start":2012.057,"end":2026.723,"text":"以宣讀上次會議事錄決定一事錄確定二、邀請行政院主計總署、租屋主計長哲銘、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通信傳播委員會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版"},{"start":2028.224,"end":2055.212,"text":"預算執行情形及成效進行專題報告．並備質詢。僅金融監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧國家通信傳播委員會副主任委員翁伯中數位發展部政務次長李懷仁分別提出報告後繼有委員林德福等23人提出質詢均經行政院主席總署、主席長朱哲銘等予以答覆決定一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員質詢會及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一週內與書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定"},{"start":2056.252,"end":2073.062,"text":"委員陳玉珍、王美惠、陳冠廷、黃建豪、葉延芝所提書面質詢列入記錄、刊登公報．並請相關部會以書面答覆通過臨時提案三案113年3月17日報告事項邀請行政院主席總署．主席長朱哲銘、中央銀行總裁楊金龍．"},{"start":2075.1,"end":2104.119,"text":"經一部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響進行專題報告．並備質詢。經行政院主計總署主計長朱哲銘、中央銀行總裁楊金榮、經濟部政務次長曾文森分別提出報告後,繼而為林德福等17人提出質詢,均經中央銀行總裁楊金榮等予以答覆。決定一、報告及詢答完畢。二、為質詢會及答覆獲請補充資訊。請相關部會於一周內以順便答覆。為另要求期限者從其鎖定。"},{"start":2106.801,"end":2123.852,"text":"嚴寬恆、陳玉珍、徐曉新、吳春城、葉延芝所提書面執行列入記錄刊登公報．並請相關部會以書面答覆宣讀完畢好,請問各位委員對上次議事錄有意義好,沒有意義那通過請議事人宣讀今日議程"},{"start":2124.793,"end":2151.34,"text":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧．內政部．國家發展委員會就:「如何積極推動金融業投注國內公共建設．並達成社宅百萬戶之政策目標．進行專題報告．並備質詢。」 宣布完畢好,謝謝我們原力介紹在場的委員與官員首先要介紹我們資深的財政委員會的委員我們吳秉瑞委員林德福林委員"},{"start":2153.976,"end":2155.664,"text":"接著我們介紹官員財政部我們的部長莊翠雲莊部長"},{"start":2158.163,"end":2184.424,"text":"畜産市市長李建賢、國庫署署長陳柏成、負稅署署長宋秀琳、官務署署長彭英偉、財產署署長曾國基、財政資訊中心主任張文希、金管會主委黃天牧、黃主委、延安局局長莊秀元莊局長、政局局莊秀元莊局長、政局局張振山莊局長、"},{"start":2186.511,"end":2204.496,"text":"保險局施俊華司局長檢察局張子昊張局長內政部政務次長花金淳華次長國土管理署副署長徐燕欣徐副署長住都中心陳組長無法會副組委高仙貴高副組委經濟發展處處長吳明慧吳副處長檢視視察陳志格陳視察以上"},{"start":2217.302,"end":2230.654,"text":"接近議程的安排,邀請財政部莊部長以及金管會黃主委、內政部及國發會就如何積極推動金融業投注國內公共建設，並達成社宅百萬戶之政策目標進行專題報告，並備質詢。我們首先邀請財政部莊部長進行專題報告。"},{"start":2242.196,"end":2259.037,"text":"主席、各位委員先進大家好今天貴委員會安排相關部會就如何積極推動金融業投注國內公共建設．並達成社宅百萬戶之政策目標進行專題報告緊就涉財政部業務部分簡要說明進行指教"},{"start":2260.222,"end":2275.517,"text":"永續發展是全球重視的核心價值本部鼓勵我們公股金融事業將環境、社會及公司治理就ESG精神納入各項業務考量截至113年2月底本部所屬公股銀行辦理重大公共建設專案貸款"},{"start":2276.966,"end":2282.987,"text":"共計有141件．餘額是新台幣2536.15億元．辦理社會住宅．連帶受信案件的金額有3849億．以及自帶受信案件的金額是1676億元．另外引導保險業的資金投入國內的公共建設．我們金管會在112年12月公布調降風險的係數．"},{"start":2303.192,"end":2320.137,"text":"增強了保險業注資國內公共建設的誘因以金融市場的力量攜手企業一起重視永續的議題將金融資源妥善運用於對環境及社會發展有益的領域有效發揮正向的影響力供股金融事業投融資業務"},{"start":2322.518,"end":2341.78,"text":"均由其橫著專業的領域以及營運的需要根據金管會的相關規範在風險可控下本與權責及公司治理來託處本部將持續督導各公股金融事業在符合法規下在投融資評估的過程當中納入ESG的因子提供金融的一個支援"},{"start":2342.501,"end":2364.697,"text":"第二個就報告的是以促餐方式推動社會住宅的部分以公共建設除了透過公股金融事業投融資之外也可以採取促餐方式來辦理有一定規模的社會住宅已經是列為促進民間參與公共建設法的重大公共建設的範圍可以適用相關的租稅優惠以吸引民間資金"},{"start":2367.821,"end":2383.212,"text":"社會住宅是初參法裏面所規定的社會福利設施民間參與投資興建可以依據初參法的相關規定辦理初參法所規範的民間參與的模式非常多元主辦機關可以按財務的評估結果採取BOT或ROT或有償的BTO"},{"start":2388.576,"end":2413.709,"text":"以及政府有償取得公共服務等各種的模式當中選擇適當的模式來辦理。那麼以新北市青年住宅BOT的案為例的話民間投資的金額總共有79億元其總共有1143戶來出租提供沒有購屋能力的青壯年出入社會的年輕人以及新婚的小家庭等族群優質合一的安身居所"},{"start":2414.469,"end":2436.148,"text":"這個案子是在102年簽約、105年興建完成、3年內完工並且配合市府的設宅政策負責租賃、管理及維護等事務顯見加速推動的一個成效如果未來有更多的社會住宅要採取出山方式的來興辦結合民間的資金與經營的效率可望可以加速社會住宅的提供"},{"start":2436.868,"end":2456.304,"text":"盡早滿足民眾的需求．而主辦機關也可以透過投資契約明定履約及監督的一個機制提高社會住宅的營運品質本部將持續督導各公股金融事業在符合法規下在投融資的評估過程當中納入ESG的因子提供金融的資源同時積極推動"},{"start":2457.625,"end":2478.233,"text":"以促餐方式引進民間資金、技術．並且持續地協助主辦機關以促餐的方式來興建社會住宅．落實政府照顧弱勢及青年族群居住需求的一個政策以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝好謝謝莊部長接著我們請金管會黃天牧、黃主委進行專題報告"},{"start":2488.291,"end":2509.901,"text":"主席貴委員先進大家好今天大院第11屆第1會期貴委員會第6次全體委員會議曾要求如何積極推動金融業投注國內公共建設．並達成社宅百萬戶政策目標進行專題報告．進行指教首先我要特別跟各位報告"},{"start":2511.348,"end":2529.978,"text":"金融業的資金來源是存款跟保險費所以整個的資金應該要運用它的注意它的收益性、流動性跟安全性而且很重要的就是資金運用的情況要跟金融業能否穩健經營跟落實保障存款源跟保護權益息息相關"},{"start":2531.397,"end":2556.295,"text":"所以任何資金的運用這些錢都是保護的跟儲管客戶的必須要綜合評估成本效益選擇具有合理期間期間很重要尤其是對保險公司來講報酬率及符合風險控管考量的投資標的本會當然會在這些前提之下鼓勵引導資金投入公共建設及相關社會主宅"},{"start":2557.742,"end":2575.916,"text":"那以下就銀行保險證券三頁目前我們的做法簡單的跟各位報告在銀行業部分目前已經可以透過獸性投資跟證券化的管道將資金導引至公共建設跟社會住宅在第二頁這裡面"},{"start":2577.799,"end":2592.371,"text":"我們對於依照這個民間參與公共建設法相關的規定投入的話都可以適當的不受我們銀行法相關條文的這個限制另外我們也"},{"start":2594.017,"end":2617.707,"text":"對商業銀行新建社會住宅的放款也在107年含蓄可以不進入銀行法72條需要的相關的限額另外配合都跟危老相關規定我們也做適度的放寬對大型公共工程融資案的風險控管我們跟工程會也訂定了三方合約的機制來做相關的規範"},{"start":2619.431,"end":2643.8,"text":"第3月在投資部分,銀行法74條跟本會以前的函式對於5加2跟六大核心戰略產業也都是屬於政府核准的經濟發展的計畫不需要再由主管機關、事業主管機關再出序相關的證明來簡化申請程序那麼在證券化方面,不論金融資產證券化、不動產證券化等等"},{"start":2645.075,"end":2672.14,"text":"都有相關的規定第4月在資產管理公司部分配合都更危老的政策我們也修正了相關的營運規則那麼也在去年10月尤其新增了資產管理公司可在政府主導的都更案中擔任與實施者協議出資之人來協助公辦都更案件的推動在保險業方面現在在專業運用不動產的投資跟有價增方面都有"},{"start":2673.342,"end":2696.042,"text":"那麼在引導保險業資金投入國內公共建設部分我們在第5月這下面110年5月修正了保險法的規定那麼放寬了保險業派員被投資公共社會福利事業的董事監察人的比例調高到三分之二換言之就是讓保險有控制權提高他們參與公共事業的這個誘因"},{"start":2698.581,"end":2720.447,"text":"另外,我們在111年6月也發布了鼓勵保險業辦理六大核心戰略產業公共投資、長照事業跟永續發展債券相關的方案也積極鼓勵業者投資。去年7月,我們也配合我們接軌新一代清潮能力制度將公共建設的係數維持到現狀的1.28,未來再逐步調整。"},{"start":2725.373,"end":2753.341,"text":"在第7月那麼在去年12月我們也調教了保險業投資國內私募股權基金跟創投事業的RBC風險係數那這些都是金管會在保險業方面鼓勵業者投入公共建設跟或社會住宅的一個具體的做法那證券業方面也有相關的在106年107年分別放寬了投信事業給人證券商可以轉投資子公私在任私募股權基金普通合夥人"},{"start":2754.284,"end":2783.133,"text":"那麼這些基金也可能參與相關的公共建設第8月未來的規劃第一個我們會繼續在保險業清償能力的這個規劃上面對公共建設的係數做審慎的考慮提供速度的誘因第二個我們在3月14號行政委員會審查報大院審查的相關的不動產投資信託基金的機制那這個部分它的下面的資產也可以投資到相關的"},{"start":2784.542,"end":2805.296,"text":"所謂的公共建設這部分尚請大院能夠予以審查通過另外我們也會配合政府的公共建設和社會住宅的政策方向定期檢討相關的法規以上報告謝謝好謝謝黃主委接著我們請內政部花敬淳政事進行專題報告請盡量重點在意麻煩"},{"start":2812.196,"end":2832.102,"text":"主席、各位委員先生、女士大家好感謝各位財委會的召開這樣的如何積極推動金融業投注公共建設達成百萬戶社宅政策的專題報告本人應邀報告備詢,甚感榮幸本部推動只租不售的社會住宅政策結合政府興建"},{"start":2833.102,"end":2848.002,"text":"與包租貸款的供給方案．增加政府住宅政策供給面的資源．依據行政院111年合定的社會住宅新範計畫．直接興建12萬戶包租貸款民間住宅8萬．來達成8年20萬戶的社會住宅目標．"},{"start":2848.923,"end":2855.61,"text":"截至今年2月底．直接興建已達成96510戶．包租代管累計媒合的99000戶．有效契約是72000餘戶．這兩項政策都可以在今年底達標"},{"start":2864.458,"end":2880.233,"text":"未來8年住宅政策的新目標也將依據行政院去年12月被查本部推動社會住宅成果及提升設宅用地供給精進措施以生活圈方式規劃設宅並"},{"start":2881.934,"end":2899.144,"text":"並於整開區納入社福設施和社宅專區透過都更等多元方式取得社宅已達成百萬戶包含直接興建跟包租貸款各25萬戶租金補貼50萬戶的這樣一個目標目前直接興建社宅地方"},{"start":2899.784,"end":2919.598,"text":"政府藉由本部提供的融資服務平台向銀行取得融資國家資助中心也採取融資平台跟連帶方案來取得較低的利率融資未來8年新建金額會更為龐大預估新建25萬戶社會住宅將會至少需要1兆元的融資金額"},{"start":2920.419,"end":2933.206,"text":"未來國家住宅中心將研議發行永續發展債券以降低設宅資金利息的財務負擔也請金融監督管理委員會予以協助以上說明進行各位委員參考謝謝"},{"start":2952.645,"end":2982.157,"text":"主席、各位委員、先進、大家好今天陳盟國委員會邀請本會列席並進行專案報告然後敬請各位委員不吝指教近年來國內的投資率雖然因為政府擴大公共建設及台商回台以及半導體及綠能設施的擴增雖然投資率有相應上升可是我們可以知道說國民儲蓄率在疫情期間明顯上升導致超額持續的累增"},{"start":2982.717,"end":3004.275,"text":"然後國內的資金相對的充裕為了充分利用國內的資金行政團隊除了持續改善國內投資環境激勵民間投資並擴大公共建設以外其實也積極引導金融體系資金投入公共建設及社會住宅的興建以下資就本會及"},{"start":3005.536,"end":3029.372,"text":"各部會近期所推動的重要措施簡要說明如下第一個是推動國家融資保證的機制為引導民間資金參與我國公共建設及產業發展有行政院109年11月合定的本會所提的國家融資保證機制的推動方案那這個機制是由國發基金及8個公股銀行出資的90.2億成立了保證的專款"},{"start":3032.134,"end":3047.788,"text":"並由中國輸入銀行成立國家融資保證中心．辦理融資保證業務．可乘坐專款10倍的保證額度．以試圖降低銀行的融資風險．促進綠能及重大公共建設的順利取得融資．這個機制到今年"},{"start":3051.011,"end":3071.213,"text":"113年3月底已經通過了11案的融資保證的申請案那累積保證的金額達到91.36億本會將持續協助國內綠能等重大的公共建設業者及銀行的銀行運用這個機制以落實達成我國人員轉型及推動各項公共"},{"start":3071.893,"end":3086.182,"text":"建設的目標第二個是降低保險業的資金風險係數然後為了引導保險業的資金投入國內公共建設及國家的核心戰略產業監管會其實已經在去年調降了保險業的"},{"start":3088.447,"end":3108.441,"text":"投資國內的PE跟創投的風險係數我想剛剛黃主任已經有提過我就不再贅述那第三個是運用直建界金融工資協助社會住宅的興建那內政部也成立了社會住宅的融資服務平台然後協助地方政府取得較低"},{"start":3110.083,"end":3127.58,"text":"的中期的資金．同時國家都督中心以委託臺灣銀行統籌辦理的聯貸．以取得支應社會住宅建設所需要的長期資金．而且剛剛其實市場也有報告也言喻要發行這個"},{"start":3128.601,"end":3153.427,"text":"永續發展的債券以降低利息的負擔第4個是擴大促進民間參與社宅的興建為了協助興建社會住宅我想財政部已經將一定面積的社會住宅列入初餐的重大的公共建設範圍適用初餐法的融資跟租稅的優惠以鼓勵民間資金的投入"},{"start":3154.207,"end":3177.999,"text":"我想最後還是要跟大家報告新政團隊將持續提升國家資源的有效配置跟運用我們除了會持續的激勵民間投資擴大公共建設減少油資以外我想本會也會跟相關的部會持續研議創新的做法然後來促進金融體系投入公共建設及社會住宅以上報告進行指教"},{"start":3178.601,"end":3203.518,"text":"好 謝謝高副主委現在我們開始尋答先做一下的宣告每位出席委員發言時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘因為今天列席的人委員非常的多所以每位委員發言時間為5分鐘好現在我們今天的這一個上午10點半10點30分截止發言登記依登記的順序登記第一位的林德福委員進行諮詢"},{"start":3213.874,"end":3216.304,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請內政部發次長有請發次長"},{"start":3225.532,"end":3240.164,"text":"兩年前住都中心為確保如期達成中央6.9萬戶直接興建社宅的任務委由台灣銀行籌辦4,119億元的社宅連帶案對於今年底要達成20萬戶的社宅目標並且這個下階段社宅2032年要達到100萬戶的目標請問"},{"start":3250.453,"end":3267.379,"text":"今年底的20萬戶社宅部分民間金融業到底有沒有參與啊?各位報告當然經建社宅因為主要都是靠資金融通所以說當然我們都有跟銀行...民間有沒有參與嗎?你是指資金的面還是...對阿資金阿"},{"start":3268.667,"end":3285.674,"text":"就是跟銀行融資啊 當然有啊有喔 未來要達到百萬戶的社宅這個的規劃目標你認為到底有沒有吸引公民營的這些金融業者參與籌辦整個社宅興建年代案的誘因啊"},{"start":3286.474,"end":3307.925,"text":"報告委員其實兩年前我們跟台銀那個八個行庫的連帶案實質上所有行庫都非常積極非常樂意的來支持我們那當然現在民間的銀行這個部分參與的比較少啦比較少對啊這個部分你要有誘因啊你沒有誘因他們怎麼會參與對不對那個莊部長你也上來好不好"},{"start":3313.837,"end":3326.38,"text":"委員好部長簽約投資公共建設金額年三年突破1800億元那請問部長要引導金融業投入國內的公共建設你認為有哪些條件是需要考量的"},{"start":3343.975,"end":3370.391,"text":"是,跟委員報告金融業要投資到公共建設如同剛剛黃主委已經提到第一個金融業他必須要考量這個收益性、安全性以及流動性因為錢都來自存款戶跟保險戶這是金融業在投資有關公共建設的時候他必須考慮的因素那當然我們的促參呢有一些案件他其實是也符合這樣的一個相關條件比如說像民生的公用事業下水道、屋水道的"},{"start":3371.089,"end":3399.217,"text":"無水道的建設或者是說物流中心以及焚化爐等等這些都是具有一個吸引金融業來投資的一個部長以這幾年這個民間參與的績效來看你認為哪些國家的國內的公共建設類別啊對這些吸引金融業投注啊是具有比較大的吸引力也就是說他要符合剛剛我們所講的幾個特性就是安全性"},{"start":3399.737,"end":3416.756,"text":"流動性及收益性向民生的公用事業屋水道的處理還有焚化爐或者是說向物流中心以及我們出產法修正以後也擴大了有關公共建設的範圍包含數位建設、綠能建設這個部分都具有相當的誘因"},{"start":3419.218,"end":3440.612,"text":"111年底新增出倉法擴大民間參與公共建設的類別新增綠營、影視營、資源循環再利用等設施及數位建設請問以金融業投資來說你認為能不能成為吸引力的選項"},{"start":3442.134,"end":3449.864,"text":"我覺得是應該是有的因為這些建設也第一個也是重要的國家的一些重要建設比如說像綠能建設數位建設"},{"start":3450.58,"end":3476.765,"text":"都是國家非常重要的一個建設因為其實畜産法修正以後其實我們還增加了一個所謂有償取得公共服務的一個機制也就是說民間機構投注到我們的畜産的公共建設裡面提供一個優質服務以後政府是以購買公共服務的方式來支付金額這個部分對於它的一個收益性跟流動性其實安全性都是有相當大的一個助力"},{"start":3477.766,"end":3493.948,"text":"另外你認為政府會不會考量提供更多這些租稅優惠來作為吸引金融業投注國內公共建設的誘因呢?跟委員報告在出產法裡面本身就有相關的租稅優惠它只要是屬於重大公共建設範圍的話"},{"start":3495.209,"end":3522.862,"text":"那他就可以有關盈利事業所得稅的一個免徵以及減徵還有關稅的一個免徵還有延期分期繳納的一些優惠但他只要符合重大公共建設範圍那這個重大公共建設範圍呢我們財政部會跟各個目的事業主管來討論希望這個部分能夠擴大以後那可以吸引民間來投資重大的公共建設好那你們兩個請回去請金管會黃主委要請黃主委"},{"start":3525.581,"end":3525.602,"text":"諸位"},{"start":3528.206,"end":3552.342,"text":"那個積極推動金融業投入國內這些公共建設一定要有相當規模的資金獲利以及誘因才是主要那主委儘管會修正針對保險業持有的國內私募股權基金創投基金的百分之百投資國內公共建設適用風險係數從原來的百分之33.75一舉降到百分之10.18"},{"start":3558.567,"end":3559.028,"text":"各位委員報告"},{"start":3568.882,"end":3569.403,"text":"對阿就目前的狀況來看齁"},{"start":3592.366,"end":3615.804,"text":"這個成效是不是有達到預期?你認為呢?報告委員其實這個要看共幾面的情況就是我們其實在公共建設方面法規制度做了很多放寬包括參與公共建設董事監察員的比例都提高了可是看起來要有一個足夠讓保險業願意去投資的標的適當的期間跟報酬率才會促成兩倍"},{"start":3616.645,"end":3621.969,"text":"這是主要的誘因嗎?如果不如預期,那到底問題出在哪裡?是不是有其他配套的方案?"},{"start":3623.72,"end":3623.9,"text":"主委啊"},{"start":3647.101,"end":3657.469,"text":"風險係數下調後保險業持有的投資部位算出的風險資本也會減少有助拉高RBC主要"},{"start":3658.854,"end":3679.415,"text":"目的是為了增強保險業投資國內公共建設的誘因至於業者是不是會加碼投資公共建設保險局也表示還是取決於業者對投資回報的風險等面向來做一個綜合考量主委財政部今年初統計2023年"},{"start":3682.477,"end":3702.825,"text":"這個授權資金投入公共建設僅簽約兩個案子差不多合計的金額112.7億建樹還是4年來最少而且金額是創5年來最低媒體報導表示主要是保險業對收益率"},{"start":3704.039,"end":3717.687,"text":"要求高再加上防疫保單的後遺症請問主委以保險業目前的生態你認為國內公共建設有沒有足夠收益率的誘因能夠吸引這些保險業的資金投資嗎"},{"start":3720.228,"end":3720.909,"text":"經歷這幾年獲利不如預期"},{"start":3743.137,"end":3767.107,"text":"如2026年初就要接軌負債會計這個IFRS17和新清償能力指標ICS請問加碼投資國內公共建設你認為對保險業營運是不是有好的一個營運選項的考量其實委員在我們今天報告中特別有提到去年年底"},{"start":3767.887,"end":3767.907,"text":"這樣齁?是。"},{"start":3786.365,"end":3790.567,"text":"主委,上個禮拜公布2024年二月保險業獲利淨值和匯兌成本一月受選業大賺318億元那二月略降到211億元月減超33%累積兩個月賺了529億元"},{"start":3806.353,"end":3825.778,"text":"已經比去年同期虧轉盈媒體報導今年前兩個月新台幣貶值授權業有較多匯兌的利益再加上台股兩個月漲到一萬八千多點二月漲到一萬八千多點三月初漲到超過兩萬點"},{"start":3827.478,"end":3842.613,"text":"那有助授權業從股票實現資本利得來支撐獲利第一季獲利可能不錯的表現那請問主委你認為年初保險業的獲利是不是可以說是來自景氣互輸的反饋"},{"start":3844.855,"end":3846.096,"text":"對於台股投資人提醒八個字注意風險省慎選股對保險業也適用嗎?你認為?"},{"start":3867.148,"end":3890.158,"text":"我想對任何金融業都是要注意風險,風險關鍵很重要那可不可以適用?省縣選股不是每個行業我覺得金融業要如履薄冰如林森淵今年應該風險有很多我們要注意的地方這樣喔,好,謝謝謝謝委員,謝謝好,謝謝林德福委員質詢接著我們請吳秉樂委員質詢"},{"start":3916.383,"end":3918.726,"text":"主席幫我們請財政部莊部長跟內政部華建群、華次長有請莊部長、華次長委員好早先請次長回答"},{"start":3931.502,"end":3947.405,"text":"前幾天我們部長有講說臺中市的那些市地重劃的底廢地可不可以不要飆售然後用底廢地的成本賣給中央政府然後來新建設宅是不是有這樣的狀況"},{"start":3948.373,"end":3973.364,"text":"各位我們報告當然這個是去之前行政委員會其實有一個方案已經通過那我們就依照那個方案往下走那接下來其實會跟地方政府來談清楚那個原則啦那目標確實是希望不會是只有臺中市吧應該各地的縣市政府都一樣原則上所有縣市那另外一點這樣子其實要花不少國家的預算"},{"start":3974.724,"end":3999.011,"text":"那這個也有時候如果預算誇得多會有資金排擠的效應陳議員有人提過你現在各縣市的這個容積率是由什麼樣的方式來決定的有的地方為什麼容積他可以地方政府就可以決意幫他增加那麼多那有的地方又不行各個縣市之間的那個法規適用的法規不一樣這個你會不會跟我們說明一下"},{"start":4000.033,"end":4024.041,"text":"各位委員報告,多次計畫裡頭主要計畫是中央在handle,那西部計畫是有地方,那西部計畫包含了剛剛您提到的這個容積率、建壁率。所以這都確實長期以來都是由地方政府在決定它的住宅區、商業區的分類跟容積率、建壁率。那目前看到確實有縣市之間有存在一個結構性的落差。"},{"start":4024.801,"end":4053.398,"text":"我攻擊一個個案喔被監察院糾正的這個金華城的這個容積他一口氣把他提高到800多喔那又是另外一個議題啦金華城本來有他的法定容積那當然還有一些開發上的容積獎勵的申請那之前的爭議是在說他第一次蓋那個圓球時候的容積獎勵等他拆掉之後他要蓋新的時候原來的容積獎勵是不是還存在"},{"start":4054.278,"end":4072.524,"text":"那就有兩種論述那方向上面其實我們本來的我們的態度是只有一次性而不是永久性的東西記得郝龍斌當台北市長的時候曾經為了一個台北好好看在這個地上種一點點花草然後就可以增加很多的容積後來你們不是也表示意見說不可以這樣嗎是"},{"start":4074.224,"end":4088.745,"text":"那可證你們對地方政府這樣的要求有沒有強制力?還是你只是言者尊尊聽者渺渺呢?實質上如果他們已經超過了都市計畫法的授權的時候我們還是可以去撤銷他的這個公告"},{"start":4090.425,"end":4090.865,"text":"最近就有那個是臺中的"},{"start":4109.959,"end":4137.719,"text":"臺中他商業區沿線那個部分我們就請他不是不是我回去再最近有一個因為行政院啊不是新北市啦是新北市的那個他就是要蓋設宅可以給予容積獎勵的那個回饋然後可以收收不要不要真的提供容積獎勵而是收貸金現在都這樣搞啊現在有一些現在就是可以做"},{"start":4138.939,"end":4167.681,"text":"他就是日期規定一個在捷運站幾百公尺內如果要做榮譽的話有一部分要先跟他買啊然後整個街坡的也要跟他買啊如果是那個TOD的那個邏輯其實他還有一定的基礎那有些是純粹只是賣榮基他並沒有設定什麼樣的範圍和一定的目標那變成是買空賣空的賣榮基那這個部分我們現在我們已經發文去新北市政府那也跟他們溝通好原則上這個方案他們就會把它撤掉"},{"start":4168.041,"end":4185.656,"text":"你知道為什麼我要問你這個嗎?因為有人講說如果政府的容積彈性一點跟建商談的時候他每一個住宅都蓋一部分你給他容積他蓋一部分的社會住宅相對的條件給你這樣政府不用花錢啊"},{"start":4188.613,"end":4216.252,"text":"這是一種理想但是實務上的操作其實蠻困難的因為很多開發他想說我社區裡面有社宅融在裡面基本上他賣房子也會不好賣建商其實也不大願意參與我覺得願意的人願意不願意的人不願意是看你提供的誘因條件另外一點就是也要這個地方為什麼要請莊部長來很多的國有土地他後來是會再參加都市更新的"},{"start":4217.272,"end":4217.292,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":4230.971,"end":4252.165,"text":"這個叫做權力變換率他是應該要給你房屋嘛對不對那至少你剛剛講說困難說這個因為建商罪這個社區裡面就如果有社宅的話可能不好賣那裡面有這個都公之後有公有土地所取得的這個住宅我以前曾經在這邊提過是不是盡量把它納入社會住宅的範圍"},{"start":4253.587,"end":4268.926,"text":"財政部也說你同意這個方向當然細節我們還可以再細緻化那這樣同樣你剛剛講那個狀況啊那社區除非他這個地方都只要有公共土地他要排除否則的話他怎麼有辦法拒絕你的社區裡面有社宅"},{"start":4269.466,"end":4283.522,"text":"各位委員報告,確實啦,實質上也有,已經有實際上好幾個案例,它本來就已經開始做社宅了那當然有一些業者或者是買方會有意見,那我們現在正在發展新的方案"},{"start":4284.483,"end":4310.103,"text":"相容的方案那這個部分應該我們盡快把那個方案確定報行之後我覺得你講這個是趕快研發我贊成趕快研究我贊成但是我剛剛講這個問題是早就已經存在了你現在都更裡面的公有土地權力變換你就是取回房屋我建議這個房屋盡量不要飆售盡量拿來當社會住宅現在是這樣沒有錯現在就是這樣那也要鼓勵地方政府這樣結果中央政府的分配回來的"},{"start":4310.964,"end":4318.727,"text":"我非常感謝委員提出這個論述這也是我們希望能夠積極倡議的一個角度那當然就法之面我們可能再跟財政部來討論因為終究那是地方政府的財產那這背後就是地方政府對於公益的態度的問題"},{"start":4338.676,"end":4352.647,"text":"另外我要請署長請教你有沒有你的土地撥用給地方政府之後地方政府之後把他納入跟他讓回然後蓋一蓋他再去賣房子的這樣你空的土地撥給他就不能成他的財源啊"},{"start":4353.739,"end":4374.231,"text":"報告委員,不可能。因為現在只有可以用社宅的方式來撥。剛剛委員有提到過,譬如說我可能只有零星的土地。市政府或是縣市政府有一些部分的土地,他有在講前面之後的這個分為黃色的要作為社宅。"},{"start":4374.751,"end":4402.452,"text":"我們才會同意撥用我們撥用後我們也會做相關的一個管制像三重的那個集美大概有8戶我們就會去做抽查我舉個例子新莊原來的老的派出所分局現在在那邊做一個很大的都更他裡面有一些土地早年是國有撥給他的吧怎麼可能那一大片裡面都完全沒有國有土地那他做了都更之後現在分到房子之後他要拿去標售"},{"start":4403.956,"end":4412.097,"text":"地方政府會有一些的做法比如說他原來有派出所但是他都跟分回來的部分還是我有做派出所使用"},{"start":4413.832,"end":4438.902,"text":"當然派出所一樓的會留一部分做派出所那樓上的呢他拿去標售我現在就是跟你講說這個你也要注意因為不會第一手撥土地來就立刻去督耕了先撥來做什麼東西做一個什麼樣的建設什麼樣的需要過了很多年之後改變人變成他要做督耕然後跟旁邊一起建那建好之後全部都變他的標售這樣是有點凱宗樣的"},{"start":4441.943,"end":4464.458,"text":"是戰鬥他的便宜啦那黃市長我再回頭問你這個問題就是說如果你的容積在獎勵上面的制定可以比較有彈性的話我覺得這不是一條既可以取得社宅又可以節省國家資源這個國家資源的一個方式那這個容積給地方政府這樣去弄"},{"start":4465.441,"end":4478.266,"text":"我覺得還不如中央政府規定一個怎麼樣的狀況如果你建商願意這個怎麼樣的回饋條件讓他可以做一些在裡面增加一點彈性的容積比整個地方政府都拿去用這樣好多了"},{"start":4479.948,"end":4504.075,"text":"確實啦在歐洲其實有不少國家有這樣的一種做法那台灣其實有人在倡議那地方政府也嘗試著想要做啦確實如您說的就是那個標準因為因地制於每個縣市的條件會不一樣房價高的地方其實你給他容積就不要那麼多房價低的地方可能要多給一些那這裡面就會出現怎麼去平衡"},{"start":4504.375,"end":4519.04,"text":"這是回饋的比例的問題所以你就是要估價對於那個容積到底值多少最後一個小問題下個月開始那個施政獎勵就到期了都更施政獎勵就到期了"},{"start":4521.742,"end":4542.875,"text":"現在已經4月了,5月到期,這個月是不是大家會趕掛建造啊?那趕掛建造的結果就是有一些人先掛,其實那個設計將來再改,這個都增加很多的勞費啦。如果你真的這個政策有必要再延續的時候,事實上才內政部可以適度的出來發表說,你們可能會考慮延長。"},{"start":4543.795,"end":4544.536,"text":"那都更的呢?"},{"start":4561.472,"end":4587.587,"text":"獨耕現在的核心問題倒不在這個地方獨耕的核心問題在審議地方政府在審議的時間拖得太久是啊,常常做獨耕的到蓋牢8年以上啊動不動就8年以上那我們也不斷在跟地方政府溝通怎麼樣把審議的項目標準報告書的規格通通要標準化那不能發散就是審議該審議的東西就好不該審議的就應該不要審"},{"start":4588.387,"end":4600.806,"text":"好,那部長我再次表示我的立場希望你們因為參加督工分回來的房子要盡可能地拿來做社會住宅是是,我們都會先掐尋的是好,謝謝吳平衛委員質詢接著我們請賴世寶委員質詢"},{"start":4626.023,"end":4632.267,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請金廣內的黃主委有請黃主委委員長"},{"start":4639.984,"end":4654.944,"text":"黃主委早今天是ETF大家眾所矚目的ETF940今天正式上市嗎是吧?是我看這個料蠻大的這個"},{"start":4657.928,"end":4676.735,"text":"這樣我不管了我們在乎的是大家都知道金管會原來最早的時候一直鼓勵大家特別是對於散戶投資者可能沒有專業的判斷我們交給專業人聽我們做一些分析等等之類的所以所謂的portfolio"},{"start":4677.655,"end":4706.136,"text":"一覽整的貨幣的概念一個投資組合的概念用這樣的概念來投資買ETF相對的是比較屬於長期的相對的比較屬於穩健的可是我們看到現在來看的話ETF幾乎已經變值了變成是今天這個量很大欸這個動輒幾十萬張我不知道這是不是當痛還是怎麼樣你要不要來評論一下"},{"start":4707.235,"end":4733.612,"text":"新聞委員其實您才是專家啦我想商品本身是中性的那它的確它的性質跟您所說的是一樣那重點就是希望我們投信在或是券商在IPO階段其實要讓投資人瞭解商品的特質跟它的風險那也要投資人自己也要瞭解任何商品都有它的這些相關的風險我們前兩天也發了新聞稿"},{"start":4734.452,"end":4753.681,"text":"我想行銷上面我們會做一些調整那另外一方面總體面整個ETF市場會不會產生一些集中度的問題我們這邊單位會一起去做研究謝謝委員的關心我請教你要不要對社會大眾再講一遍還是說你覺得尊重市場不需要講"},{"start":4754.301,"end":4775.244,"text":"就是ETF發行ETF某種程度希望風險分散某種程度希望比較長期的相對長期的持有這樣的概念對嗎有其實跟委員報告上禮拜三我們特別發了一個新聞稿就是報告禮拜三就是提到您所提到這些重點所以是"},{"start":4776.605,"end":4777.706,"text":"我們看到大家很關心社會的打仗"},{"start":4803.257,"end":4827.179,"text":"詐騙你要發現到有一塊是你管的一塊就移工的人頭帳戶成了詐騙的溫床比如說他離開了他有他的帳戶那或者他什麼情況會凍結帳戶我們現在目前移工有七十幾萬就有八萬個移工逃逸而且"},{"start":4828.453,"end":4841.858,"text":"市場上傳言以一共的帳戶平均一個人大概3本左右的帳戶所以如果人家要買的話一本帳戶可以賣到30萬到40萬這一部分來講的話你有什麼看法"},{"start":4846.596,"end":4849.037,"text":"你們有沒有做成決定"},{"start":4873.663,"end":4896.576,"text":"這個移工如果正式離境了要接近他的帳戶有沒有做這點目前還沒有 是不是可以請莊局長跟您做一個說明 謝謝包委員其實有人有這樣的提議啦那不過這個部分的話我們必須還要再跟勞動部再協商說 是不是合有這樣子的決定什麼時候可以決定"},{"start":4902.174,"end":4916.964,"text":"因為近期會開會那之前因為現在已經發現到他的帳戶被拿去做詐騙的一個工具所以我們要有效防堵的話其實這個是一條路啊那不是"},{"start":4918.962,"end":4932.813,"text":"有沒有其他任何的考量說會不會侵犯到他的因為他已經離開了嘛他來這裡當然都是一個契約行為比如說要待兩年幾年然後回去了回去了當然這個照顧把他close掉"},{"start":4935.019,"end":4948.957,"text":"對,財務委員我們之前確實有因為這樣子有人有這樣的建議有跟勞動部這邊洽談不過勞動部還是認為說也許有些移工離境了之後他很可能還會有需要有這樣子的"},{"start":4950.299,"end":4973.34,"text":"金融服務的需求所以勞動部那邊他其實對這樣子的建議其實是持比較保留的態度所以後續我們還是必須包括剪掉還有勞動部一起還要再協商什麼時候是最近?什麼時候再協商?可能應該是這個禮拜或下個禮拜確切時間我再跟委員報告一個月內會有結果嗎?"},{"start":4975.547,"end":4976.207,"text":"請問兩位什麼時候可以凍結他的賬戶?"},{"start":4997.694,"end":5019.547,"text":"委員不好意思我可以再明確這個凍結是指他在臺灣的時候還是在離開之後對是離開之後或者在如果他的他這個帳戶已經參與犯罪了當然凍結那如果是在臺灣工作的時候將警示帳戶的時候就可以凍結警示帳戶那警示要檢調單位給我們指示給銀行指示"},{"start":5020.96,"end":5029.146,"text":"好,兩位請財政部的莊部長還有內政部的花次長有請莊部長跟花次長委員好兩位長官好喔你看一下先請花次長我們看到蔡政府蔡總統說社會注財目標是20萬戶嘛對不對現在看起來大概飄飄了吧應該"},{"start":5047.861,"end":5053.225,"text":"各位委員還有包租貸款的部分這裡面不含包租貸款包租貸款多少?"},{"start":5069.959,"end":5097.754,"text":"現在已經7萬5千戶左右了各位各位看官看進來齁真正新建真正新完工的就是2萬2千戶啊加一個既有的6千戶還不到3萬戶啊20萬個食物盤而已啊阿你講你怎麼可以把新建中的放加進來以絕標代開工的還沒開工的新建中的還要包括你全土地都算"},{"start":5098.818,"end":5116.212,"text":"不是不是不是不是不是這樣我原誤解了我原誤解了其實2016我們的社宅住宅新辦計畫講得非常非常清楚就是直接興建的部分是以絕標大概開工以上的納入計算但還沒有還沒有換句話說可以讓8年的"},{"start":5118.412,"end":5143.337,"text":"這個有沒有20萬戶就是沒有嘛你總共新房公德就只有2萬多戶而已啊我剛剛講過我們是以絕標代看公德但是不含規劃中的不含規劃中的這都在計畫中講得非常非常清楚社會上一直有一些誤差就是沒有我們當然是認識社會啦社會的人當然程度比你高啦不是不是這樣講的我們的認知就是"},{"start":5144.217,"end":5157.243,"text":"要蓋好給我住才算啊結果你還在蓋還給我算蓋房子房子就需要時間嘛蓋房子房子就需要時間要來的賴政府我不知道花次長會不會升官或者是要在別的地方去我不知道"},{"start":5161.001,"end":5161.321,"text":"我請問你啊"},{"start":5187.455,"end":5216.607,"text":"你現在來講的話我們住都中心你的總資產多少?你的淨資產多少?住都中心現在大概有四五百億吧四五百億喔那你要融資一兆但是這是這個備用是可百分之百的這個自償的啊這個我是很擔心你到時候發綠色什麼時候開始發?"},{"start":5218.24,"end":5218.42,"text":"委員好"},{"start":5238.613,"end":5241.957,"text":"您們有準備要蓋社會住宅的時候要發這個債嗎?我想這個部分我們會跟內政部以及金管會來做詳細的討論什麼時候會有結果?這個部分時間我們還不是還沒有對對對所以現在都還沒有結果我們還在對對對會在討論的是我們是還更在意的那個次長"},{"start":5259.929,"end":5272.869,"text":"就是你現在就是常常這樣一圈就圈這個地就變成你要設備住宅一圈圈那個地設備住宅那個交通影響評估都沒有做好我在這裡最少問了蘇貞昌院長兩次"},{"start":5275.134,"end":5288.777,"text":"他公開承諾你們正式要劃定社會主宅的時候一定要做交通影響評估結果你們幾乎都沒有我在想下面我這個一定追我再去跟委員報告小問題好了你先請回那個莊部長我請問你你們的官務署"},{"start":5301.092,"end":5325.686,"text":"或者你們財政部啊講到了加熱塩、電子煙禁自由貿易港區居然說是可以可是我總書信的時候問學院內容部長部長說禁止啊結果在這裡面有好幾噸在那裡面加熱塩、電子煙電子煙是違法加熱塩要省額到目前為止"},{"start":5332.453,"end":5335.156,"text":"為什麼禁止你們都可以賣呢?你們都不抓?請問有沒有取締"},{"start":5336.521,"end":5355.242,"text":"有這個第一個跟委員報告加熱煙就煙害防治法裡面他是對指定煙品公告以後要經過健康風險評估才能目前是沒有目前是沒有對沒錯那電子煙並不是屬於這個公告裡面指定的一個煙電子煙絕對就是對是的是"},{"start":5357.825,"end":5373.929,"text":"沒有啊我問你取締的怎麼樣啊取締結果這個部分取締的部分有做啊這個部分是有做你要報告給我們好不好是可以我們可以報告取締數量多不多嗎好那我們詳細的資料不不你先回答一下多不多數量一點點還是數量很多書面給您資料還是"},{"start":5376.71,"end":5394.802,"text":"對,但是你大致上這個數量多不多?好數量,那署長這邊可以說跟委員報告大概煙彈的部分有84萬啦,84萬個piece那如果是吸食器的話大概是49萬多那很多喔!是那很多喔!好吧把這個給我好,謝謝委員賴委員麻煩一下"},{"start":5406.26,"end":5408.804,"text":"下一位請郭國文委員質詢請那下一位主席有請花次花次長請"},{"start":5422.254,"end":5431.142,"text":"華智好,我想主要排這個題目的最關鍵的原因是就絕對數來說不管有沒有跳票的問題就絕對數來說我們看到的這個完工數統計起來就是29182萬是"},{"start":5437.527,"end":5459.314,"text":"我覺得緩不濟急、供不應求有這種現象幾個數字來看第一個從房租物價指數來看的話現在創歷史新高已經105.37而且連續兩年增加2%去年2.16創下新高27年租金最高第二個數字就是房價所得比9.61倍也超過國際標準4.6倍而且是越來越高"},{"start":5464.036,"end":5482.416,"text":"第3,房貸負擔率越來越高,高達40.25%,超過合理的標準30%第4,社會住宅率的重簽率非常之低,臺北只有5.7%,新北13.95%,六都平均不到15%"},{"start":5484.648,"end":5508.025,"text":"這是供普應求嘛大家都想要去住而且他最多最多只能住多少年住6年若是現在可以到12年若是的部分但一般而言3加3是6年那也就是說呢你如果要達到呢即便買不到房子你要達到另一個可能性就租者有其屋的這種目標的話也是也很看起來非常的遙遠那我稍微去看了一下齁這個"},{"start":5510.006,"end":5520.74,"text":"五二零的新的總統他要定出一個25萬戶的這個目標以照目前為止這個速度你真的有把握在後面的四年當中25萬戶全部完工嗎"},{"start":5522.845,"end":5545.8,"text":"不是完工跟委員報告：其實蓋房子就是需要時間：包括決標之後的啦：包括決標：依照你的定義如果剛包括決標之後：可以：可以喔：你這麼有信心我對你會有：我有跟委員報告可是就實際上：我們現在一年其實可以決標近兩萬戶因為前面比較慢現在組織已經建立起來部隊建立起來所以一年可以決標近兩萬戶現在速度有在加快"},{"start":5546.52,"end":5572.424,"text":"所以說後面8年其實乘以2是16萬所以12加16其實可以到28啦所以我們到25花次我相信業務選手可能會有加速的效果但是就實務上來說本席在推動這個社會住宅爭取的過程當中在土地取得的部分往往要花很多的時間啦是土地才是關鍵因為是台田的土地來取得的話你都要經過專案的變更花費不少的時間"},{"start":5572.864,"end":5590.584,"text":"但是現在其實這個機制也都建立起來所以說為什麼我們要把整開區施力重劃區段徵收要要求3%到5%要未來作為社會主體的儲備用地我跟你講你那底廢地的3%到5%對你這個說法來說的話以前台南市政府現在就有把新的開發區的底廢地5%要拿出來興建的時候"},{"start":5591.84,"end":5621.078,"text":"不好意思旁邊的住宅全部都反對啊旁邊的住宅全部都反對你根本蓋不成這就是問題就在出於在速度的部分啊花次也就是說你將來的這個新的開發區的5%的話你如果沒有蓋在建商之前的話你蓋在建商之後我跟你講你那5%不會啦不會不會不會事實上那發生嗎那是過去的一些不當的標籤觀念其實這些社宅的品質不當的標籤觀念也是事實社宅的品質越來越好啊就是它推動上是困難你不要那麼樂觀就事實嘛"},{"start":5621.738,"end":5645.064,"text":"就是我跟你具體的談到一個例子就是在台南市永康的這個大橋重劃區那個案子就一直蓋不起來就是事實然後你說標籤化標籤化就是一個事實啊所以你要如何避免這有什麼好處避免因為標籤化沒有辦法蓋得成避免還有什麼你真正社會住宅你速度要加快才能達到壓抑房地價的效果嘛是"},{"start":5645.444,"end":5660.755,"text":"不是嗎?你的一個目標是這樣子啊所以速度慢就是整個社會住宅目前令人最憂心的地方有兩個數字讓花次參考一下第一個你如果從時間的建造方式你剛剛這樣講我呢事實上仔細去推"},{"start":5661.576,"end":5687.743,"text":"推起來的結果齁你如果說呢用這個時間的壓力來算的話你至少啊要花多少時間呢要花將近半世紀以上才有可能不會我人這個計算有問題不會不會那資金的部分你剛剛說要連帶或許可以解決可是你資金的來源除了公股銀行以外有沒有可能連同受險的這個部分的資金過度的這一個那個"},{"start":5689.344,"end":5703.339,"text":"在過剩的情況底下把他做一併的考量有沒有可能第一個我跟委員報告社宅新建的完工的時間大概就是那個例如說1、2年可能再加4到5年這12萬就會完工了那就是加4到5年因為蓋房子需要這樣的時間所以不會到51年這樣"},{"start":5706.002,"end":5721.716,"text":"對,我剛剛就看到財政部啊財政部就舉一個例子我請部長上來一下齁財政部剛剛就有一個BOT的案子BOT的案子以新北市的案子當中他3年就完工了嘛那為什麼有其他的方式可以付這個情況底下可以速度之下會讓民間的力量導入這個"},{"start":5723.477,"end":5748.805,"text":"為什麼沒有辦法加強的推動呢?這個部分其實是那個年代因為不缺工不缺料營造成本低所以說那時候是可以比較快那如果是諸多東西推動的話讓人家擔心這個情況沒有辦法改善這個不會不會不會這我也很放心那另外錢的部分實質上現在我們大概都是用融資的方式來做那未來當然我們不排除"},{"start":5749.705,"end":5767.899,"text":"那發言這麼有信心那我問你嘛就明年520之前你可以達到幾戶嘛我就問你這個目標嘛你明年520之前我就算520之後到明年520之前一年之內嘛新建的部分再增加嗎我們大概一年就可以增加兩萬啦新建的部分就增加兩萬包租貸款可以增加二到三萬"},{"start":5770.442,"end":5784.38,"text":"新建完成嗎?新建完成我可能要再算一下啦,因為發包要跟前面已經有發包才可能新建完成嘛對,那你就估計一下嘛,這樣一年多嘛,還有一年多"},{"start":5786.121,"end":5809.787,"text":"應該可以一年可以增加一萬戶以上一年可以增加一萬戶以上是所以到明年為止的話就可以新建完成就可能到三萬多戶可能四萬多快五萬這就是你目標嘛那我們就以這個目標來檢驗你的成績接下來我們請那個部長部長這BOT的部分我們的業主是不是都有一個心態啊"},{"start":5810.787,"end":5837.415,"text":"我們的那個各部門都有一個心態就是他想要當業主啊不想要那不想要透過民間的資金來創造這個公共設施有沒有可能這個可能性部長當然我們希望是說呃主辦也就是政府機關他推出的公共建設經過評估以後可行性評估以後我們希望盡量是走以促參的模式也就是引進民間的資金沒有促參法已經都通過了啦我希望促參法能夠達到實際的效果"},{"start":5837.955,"end":5838.075,"text":"黃主委請"},{"start":5859.659,"end":5870.543,"text":"主委好,那個今天那個報紙上有報說我們財政委員會另一個召委有邀請這個瘦嫌業去吃飯那我不曉得問一下主委這個保險局長有給你報備沒有?"},{"start":5872.349,"end":5900.757,"text":"他有跟我提說趙偉翔想讓財委會新的委員認識一下業者你知情嘛我知道你知道這件事情嘛那主委你知道嗎就我的了解齁4月11號齁在這個喜來登成員B1這個餐廳齁時間、地點、日期都已經OK了還有一段監控的段你知道嗎我不知道你不知道而且是不只是局長的層級勒還是局長還沒跟你報告"},{"start":5901.977,"end":5926.808,"text":"我不曉得你不曉得還是裝修局長會曉得這個他沒有要邀請還沒有這個就已經在邀約了已經約好這個有跟我提過但是沒有跟你提過所以說那如果是保險局的拖完之後又變成是銀行局的拖又排一場那接下來是不是換政期局張振山也要排一場那這安排這個飯局就變金管會的經常業務囉"},{"start":5928.717,"end":5942.818,"text":"我想跟委員報告當時召委是說我的對轉述是說才會有新的委員希望能夠有機會新的委員在這邊就可以認識了啦我覺得此風不可漲啦我們如果說今天有針對特定主題"},{"start":5945.336,"end":5960.173,"text":"然後特定的這個政策要做溝通的話其實金管會出面會比較適合一點啦不用去安排聯誼金管會不是金管聯誼會啦好不好好謝謝委員我想早上也說我們會參考委員的意見好主委那我們今天回來今天的主題齁"},{"start":5961.094,"end":5982.954,"text":"今天主題當中因為我們都知道受選人在海外避險成本過高可是受選業一直在強調說這個要如何減少受選在海外的這個投資這個成本希望金管會降低這個外匯、幣匯成本那這樣的情況底下是不是又鼓勵更多的海外資金不回來然後這樣會不會形成一個二項循環你對這個業者呼籲你的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":5984.247,"end":6008.308,"text":"其實保險資金去國外也是一個相對不得已的選擇因為我們國內沒有我們的在戶定收益市場國內不夠大所以必須他的商品要旗艦跟收益力對match他只能到國外去所以今天的題目委員趙委員提得很好如果我們多一點適合保險業投資的公共建設他就可以留在台灣了"},{"start":6009.308,"end":6037.559,"text":"對,那投資標的當然不是金管會在主管這可能是國發會的高副主委請上來一下有沒有可能金管會把現在的這個資金過剩的這個問題的問題請國發會來成立一個小組的可能性來面對這個問題因為國外的資金移出去當然不會造成國內的資金過剩的情況底下雪上加霜可是一直放在海外也一直有問題嘛對主委這個部分能不能請高副主委能夠費一個心思啊"},{"start":6038.749,"end":6068.004,"text":"副主委我想我們國發會願意跟那個財政部跟相關部會合作看看在盤點上有哪些公共建設適合放在初三的案件裡面對我覺得高副主委今天特別邀請國發會來原因是希望你們成立一個類似的專案小組邀請相關的這個部會來處理這個問題這個問題真的是越來越嚴重那我本席也有提案因為相關的問題我不想耽誤太多的時間後續的部分再進行討論那主委你是不是要補充一下主委"},{"start":6068.644,"end":6096.142,"text":"我剛有報告過像如果我們現在盡量在制度上能夠提供用品都做了重點是保險公司要找到可以投資的標的那如果國會這邊能夠重整能夠鼓勵地方政府像瑞慈也是一個方式那我覺得這個促成供需之間的媒合是好的事情對就是類似我們已經開始漸進有更多的機制形成這種情況底下國會都在統籌做一個政策性的宣示的話或許速度會更快一點謝謝主委"},{"start":6100.825,"end":6103.005,"text":"有請莊部長有請黃主委"},{"start":6129.278,"end":6158.055,"text":"委員好部長各位早安上個星期五我從媒體上看到政治局針對於當沖證交稅減半這個議題要不要延長我們開了政治局開了閉門的公聽會最後從媒體上看到是財政部提出他們向政治局向財政部要提出延長五年的建議案部長你對於這個會議你事前知道嗎"},{"start":6160.037,"end":6168.584,"text":"這個會議事前我不知道,是事前你不知道,完全不知道,也不知道內容,完全不知道好,那我是不是可以請今晚會主委主委早這個會議跟內容你知道嗎?"},{"start":6176.547,"end":6200.97,"text":"我曉得因為當中的稅率在年底就會要到齊了所以我們有前段時間有提供稅市支出給財政部當然可能部裡面還有其他的意見那這個是循程序我知道循程序但是內容你知道嗎你知道要開這個會議內容你也知道內容大概清楚但是什麼時候開我不曉得是局裡面就可以做決定的"},{"start":6201.854,"end":6212.482,"text":"我覺得齁 這件事情齁 證交稅減半這件事情其實知識體大任何一個結論或訊息其實都會造成股市的影響"},{"start":6214.556,"end":6242.435,"text":"包括部長說他不知道我覺得這個事情就大條因為我覺得這種事情應該事前要做很多內部充分的溝通我覺得這個才不會對因為我們從媒體上看到萬一結論是怎麼樣那又再問從媒體又再問部長或主委你們的想法怎麼樣如果意見不合後面造成股市的風吹草動影響是非常大的這是第一點我要提醒你們未來恐怕類似相關的會議可能兩位都要"},{"start":6243.055,"end":6255.351,"text":"有充分的溝通。第二,在延長5年你們的看法是怎麼樣?有特別的理由嗎?"},{"start":6255.351,"end":6255.531,"text":"主委。"},{"start":6258.185,"end":6286.257,"text":"因為從過去從17年那時候是延長一年從2018年4月28年那時候是延長3.8年那後來延長三年2022年1月1號我們提到是延長三年這一次我看到從媒體上看到是說要延長五年五年有特別的理由嗎我想其實就卷上來講他希望常態化但是我們覺得不太可能就是需要一個期間所以大概就提出五年這個方案"},{"start":6287.509,"end":6306.777,"text":"但是這個方案其實坦白說我跟委員報告部長我大概知道你們的目標是希望常態化但你也知道不太可能我今天沒有要就到底要不要常態化這件事情跟你們做討論因為從過去已經實施有7年半當沖增加稅減半接下來再5年的話加起來就是12年"},{"start":6311.559,"end":6328.534,"text":"其實未來我深信沒有任何一個今晚會的主委跟財政部長敢碰這個天條說要取消或怎麼樣這個天條這是一個很重大的事情但是我也要提醒包括我們在房租稅裡面也有針對自住或出租"},{"start":6329.875,"end":6348.309,"text":"有不同的稅率我希望這一點也可以朝向他到底有沒有違反納保法當中降稅常態化到底有沒有違反納保法包括我們房租稅率次租跟出租也有差異的稅率我希望可以朝這一點去做思考好不好"},{"start":6349.671,"end":6367.146,"text":"因為我剛剛強調了其實未來任何一個部長、主委要把政交稅當成政交稅減半這件事情取消這個恐怕都有很大的壓力這是一個天條了我要提醒兩位第二點我要問的就是有關部長你可以請回我要請問主委"},{"start":6368.647,"end":6369.227,"text":"主委,您滿不滿意?"},{"start":6399.504,"end":6426.585,"text":"當然有增資是正面的可是他這個增資的額度目前看起來並不能夠促成他今年6月底達到他的資本市主率得到合規的200那後續還有什麼樣的工具或者是我們還沒有收到他的董事會記錄那我其實我們上面前面已經有請請兩位公司的董事長陳述意見後續依法辦理"},{"start":6427.639,"end":6450.234,"text":"不過我覺得站在保護的立場我覺得主委你這一次的立場踩得非常清楚這也是我覺得非常敬佩的地方你的老師侯錦英老師送給你一隻琉璃獅子就是鼓勵你該兇的時候要兇但你這一次是不怒而為從上一次你跟我溝通之後他們也在努力所以我覺得"},{"start":6451.575,"end":6479.248,"text":"這對所有的保護來說這是一個正面的方向所以我們也期待就是無論未來在整個金管會從保護的權益立場上還有整個國家金融穩定的角度上我覺得主委的態度其實非常重要那這一點我也給主委肯定那接下來我要請是不是請慈欣先暫停我請內政部的政次花政次"},{"start":6484.196,"end":6488.464,"text":"主委你請回沒關係我是不是可以請部長?莊部長"},{"start":6498.336,"end":6526.675,"text":"正次你很清楚我長期在基層你見過我非常多次我長期非常關心居住正義它也是社會正義當中落實社會正義當中最重要的一環兩位總統無論蔡英文到賴清德對於設宅的興建設宅的達成率都非常的關注設宅最後無論是完工的興建中的規劃中的包租代管"},{"start":6527.415,"end":6544.421,"text":"都算上去沒有規劃中的好沒關係蔡英文20萬的目標那賴清德在這一次選舉的時候也強化也強調他要包含他要達到100萬那這100萬有沒有包含蔡英文的20萬當然有是累積的當然就是累積所以這個是累積上去的是"},{"start":6554.109,"end":6557.271,"text":"好,那這個20萬戶,這100萬戶到底有沒有辦法做得到?會,會達標。好,那我就有一個問題喔,剛剛有幾位委員也強調包租代管這件事情。"},{"start":6566.141,"end":6566.161,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":6594.651,"end":6610.79,"text":"那包租貸款其實包括在蔡英文的20萬戶裡面她包租貸款的比例佔了43.69也就是說包租貸款的政策其實也非常的重要我說到這邊你同意嗎?同意那我覺得包租貸款的"},{"start":6612.132,"end":6622.822,"text":"我們都知道各縣市的租金的差異度非常非常高我們現在有的工具就是在兩萬塊以下在一萬五以下我們就給免稅額的優惠"},{"start":6629.147,"end":6655.037,"text":"各縣市的租金不同以台北市跟苗栗也好你非常清楚所以包租代管我們要在各縣市拉高這個我們恐怕就要給更多的優惠之前我詢問部長部長給我的回應是說我說可不可以有各縣市的差異譬如說以台北市六都來說租金比較高我們是不是要提高部長給我的意見是說不可能不用"},{"start":6655.937,"end":6684.134,"text":"我覺得落實一百萬戶的這個社宅包租代管這恐怕就會非常的困難事實上我也查到了我們過去其實有幾次有調整這個免稅額包租代管的免稅額從一萬到一萬五其實都有所以有沒有可能我們要落實包租代管的政策把這個數字在各縣市都有機會拉高"},{"start":6685.134,"end":6699.7,"text":"我們可不可以有機會再討論那個免稅額的部分否則你一萬五在台北市可能租不到十坪一個家庭怎麼租得進去免稅額是房東的免稅額啦房東的免稅額當然是房東的免稅我們要鼓勵房東把他空屋丟出來租嘛那你如果沒有給足夠的誘因他不會丟出來嘛"},{"start":6709.354,"end":6731.445,"text":"其實現在的誘因其實已經相當相當好了啦當然房東會期待說我通通不要繳稅會更好其實租金很多都是隱形的經濟收入那但是他要丟出來配合社宅包租代管的政策所以我才提出來我支持賴清德的一百萬戶我也希望能做得成功因為各政黨總統候選都有提出來"},{"start":6732.986,"end":6756.555,"text":"你也同意包租貸款成功必須要有更多的誘因那我覺得我們過去有從一萬條到一萬五我們有沒有可能再提高這個部分其實比較複雜啦因為其實他不是說因為齊頭市平等還是有他的我沒有要各縣市就是說齊頭市的平等我們可以提高譬如說現在是一萬五未來有沒有可能提到兩萬或兩萬五"},{"start":6759.581,"end":6777.561,"text":"市長,過渡時期當你還沒有興建完成的時候你就需要更多的人加入包租代管房東加入包租代管所以我才提出來這個過渡時期哪怕是兩年、三年或五年你需要有更多的政策工具讓更多的房東願意把房子丟進來"},{"start":6779.002,"end":6807.535,"text":"做社宅出租您了解我的意思嗎?其實以現在報告館推動的進度看來現在的租稅優惠房東還蠻認同的啦所以說我覺得這部分要滾動你去觀察為什麼台北市會這麼少但是很多人想加進來所以我才認為這是一個誘因我不敢講說差異性但是至少我們過去有從一萬提到一萬五那我們再把它拉高到兩萬說不定就有更多的人願意把這個房子丟出來做入社宅的出租"},{"start":6807.915,"end":6831.162,"text":"我們再持續觀察滾動檢討好嗎我希望這個政策好好去考慮因為現在房租現在這幾年包括今天我看到這個房租的這個價格出租的價格是創歷年來的新高27年來的新高所以我覺得這一塊恐怕是你們要去考量的地方謝謝委員支持我們會謝謝李燕秀委員的質詢接著我們請戴惠委員為質詢"},{"start":6843.22,"end":6852.629,"text":"好,謝謝主席有請我們的財政部部長還有我們內政部次長還有促參司司長好,有請莊部長、李司長還有花次"},{"start":6859.981,"end":6886.649,"text":"市長,我想先跟你提出一個就是在社會住宅的經會怎麼來這個議題之前跟你討論一下就是說近期我們有諸多的一個委員提出來就是說針對益生法第83條的條文的修正草案他主張就是說要刪除行政院這個特別預算不知道市長你的看法是怎麼樣呢?"},{"start":6887.449,"end":6911.256,"text":"根委員報告,社會住宅的經費不是特別預算不是,我現在是針對的就是說在近期在預算法的第83條的條文的一個修正草案這個我不好回答因為我內政部不好去管預算法的那個問題是,好來那財政部副長你來回答根委員報告預算法基本上的主管機關是主計總處"},{"start":6912.318,"end":6919.809,"text":"但是預算法這樣的一個規定其實是所謂的總預算跟特別預算其實是相輔相成當政府遇到"},{"start":6920.339,"end":6948.115,"text":"有些需要長期間推動然後有涉及到重大政事的時候那為了因應時間以及長時間的預算的一個永續事實上是有一個這樣的一個機制的對所以部長你認為就是說這一個那個修正的一個條例如果把這個特別預算刪除掉的時候當人民發生了一個重大災害的時候可能大家權利會損失的沒有辦法立即上的一個奧元我們的"},{"start":6949.196,"end":6972.224,"text":"老百姓是不是這樣子的一個對也許會遇到這樣的情況比如說像我們遇到這個COVID-19這樣的一個疫情的時候我們需要要有防治要有紓困還有一些振興那這個時候需要一個國家一定要一起來協助民眾是這樣子的那您也主張是不可刪嘛對不對我想這個部分當然大院委員的提案我們基本上這是他的權責那後續我們應該會行政部門也會提出相關的意見好"},{"start":6977.006,"end":6978.247,"text":"財政部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會"},{"start":6994.322,"end":7009.813,"text":"賴副總統他在整體的一個就是在他的一個政見上他的100萬戶那事實上就是說現有的20萬戶其實基本上就是已經是在這個時程上一直就是delay了"},{"start":7010.393,"end":7034.503,"text":"那怎麼辦來調整這些問題那我想以台南為例那當初這一個20萬戶裡頭其實就是說有12萬戶是直接興建那個社宅那目前台南市的7000戶其實我們知道完工的有202興建中的有3153然後待開工的有4856這個是已經結標了那在規劃中是1123好"},{"start":7039.608,"end":7062.617,"text":"快還是慢?是不是這樣?各位委員報告其實中央地方都在努力了那台南現在已經實際上新建中跟絕標代開工合起來已經超過8000戶了其實已經超過台南預計的7000戶的目標那當然後續就是施工那我們要請他施工期不要拖太久那後面還有陸陸續續會有新的案子絕標"},{"start":7063.217,"end":7063.337,"text":"應該沒有"},{"start":7091.968,"end":7115.174,"text":"主要還是招標因為之前缺工缺料其實招標很辛苦招標很辛苦對主要是招標錢沒有問題好錢沒有問題那就剛才有委員請教你了就是說你的社宅營運到最後誰來做你的人力夠嗎有沒有辦法透過促餐的一個模式讓民間來參與跟管理呢"},{"start":7115.954,"end":7139.154,"text":"報告委員,設宅的金融管理當然物業管理那個部分本來就是會找物業管理公司來代為處理這個部分比較單純沒有問題那其他就是契約管理收租的這個部分那現在其實中央地方都有成立住住中心在執行這一塊的業務啦那本質上當然當設宅數量越來越大那個規模"},{"start":7141.297,"end":7157.238,"text":"市長,錢沒有問題這個應該不是你來講的應該是要財政部來講的那我想在這裡就是說為什麼我們一直這市長你請回就是說在這裡也請部長一起來探討這一個"},{"start":7157.679,"end":7158.119,"text":"民間的融資這麼多"},{"start":7185.862,"end":7200.963,"text":"有沒有機會把民間的油資就是說把它引用到社會住宅的一個投資的一個興建不管是BOT案、OT案、ROT其實我還是覺得PPP有沒有辦法解決呢"},{"start":7202.104,"end":7221.64,"text":"部長你怎麼看委員報告在出餐法裡面已經把社會住宅納入我們的公共建設的範圍換言之要興建社會住宅是可以走出餐的一個模式沒有錯當然這個出餐的模式然後另外對於社會住宅怎麼樣我們已經規範了所謂的重大公共建設的一個調整如果它符合重大公共建設的調整"},{"start":7223.203,"end":7241.132,"text":"的條件的話事實上也有相關的一些優惠當然民間資金如果能夠進來蓋社會主題是一個好的方式是一個好的方式那你想想看就是說一個光是一個00940它就可以募到新台幣那個2300億那當然我們知道就是說國內的油資非常非常的多油資多的時候我們怎麼辦啊那我們可不可能把它導向了社宅的一個開花"},{"start":7252.017,"end":7264.024,"text":"讓他就是說做成一個比較良性的一個統籌資金的一個募款呢?有沒有機會?我是不是請那個司長來回答我這些問題?"},{"start":7267.305,"end":7293.677,"text":"包委員,如果透過初餐的話因為民間的融資他就比較活絡所以就比較容易來取得這個資金來投入建設另外如果用初餐來辦理這個社宅的話因為他把新建跟營運都統一由一家特許公司來經營所以包括後面的這個營運管理也都可以來一併的來在一個計畫裡面來完成所以這個大概是初餐的一個好處"},{"start":7294.557,"end":7314.075,"text":"那如果由民間直接來投資的話,它的投報率、它的報酬率會有多高?會超過3%?一定超過3%?這部分會去看每個個案的條件以現在一般來講,初參案的公共建設的投報率以內部投資報酬率的話,大概都是在至少5到6%"},{"start":7315.676,"end":7331.375,"text":"如果是其他的公共建設的話可能可以8到10%所以這部分會按照個案的條件再去做財務的試算已經有這麼高的一個投報率了那如果我們把這個民間的油資引用到這一個就是"},{"start":7331.715,"end":7336.196,"text":"市長,您認為有沒有機會?就是政府來買地,然後我這個地買了以後我自己蓋,然後我們的政府來做這一個大黃東,有沒有機會?"},{"start":7355.343,"end":7374.553,"text":"因為初餐的最早的精神就是希望政府、企業跟民眾來三贏所以每個初餐大概都是朝這個方向在規劃的好 謝謝市長來那個部長部長我想市長講的非常的清楚如果你這樣子的一個情形你還要再拿遺照"},{"start":7375.293,"end":7375.653,"text":"我想這個是並進的啦政府部門"},{"start":7393.853,"end":7417.36,"text":"也非常努力的在推動新建社會住宅那如果民間要投資那也很好所以我們在出產法裡面把相關的法制的部分都把它齊備那還可以鼓勵民間來做投資所以說部長你也會納進來你也會這樣子一個參考我們出產法裡面已經有把這些相關的規範納進來那為什麼你們還要考慮就是用一兆的這個基金花型一兆的這一個基金呢"},{"start":7418.2,"end":7433.449,"text":"我想這是兩度並進因為政府也要非常努力就是說在民間還沒有要投資進來之前政府還是非常努力所以就是說變成是各種的一個面向你們都要去討論對我們都在努力去考慮 是的 是的 是的 是的好 謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝部長那再接著我要請教就是次長"},{"start":7438.512,"end":7457.917,"text":"現有的社會住宅的一個規定嚴格我們怎麼樣來解決因為我們聽到了很多就是說局需要這個申請那個社宅的人他們一直都抽不到還有就是抽到的人認為就是說他的環形跟這個租金跟這個個案"},{"start":7458.497,"end":7458.617,"text":"拜訪委員．"},{"start":7480.708,"end":7480.828,"text":"對,那是..."},{"start":7499.349,"end":7519.191,"text":"所以說你多了以後是不是你的考慮就是有一個多元的一個方法讓需要人還有就是說我需要那個坪數大的我需要坪數小的就是我就是可以就是依我自己的一個需要來用呢還是會有一些規定啦因為你說兩個人你如果要住30坪那可能"},{"start":7520.132,"end":7521.073,"text":"所以我在這裡本席要求內政部就是透過評估"},{"start":7536.65,"end":7564.088,"text":"那各類的民間參與的一個模式我們希望投入新建社會住宅的一個可行性那也拜託內政部就是檢討目前的一個社宅入住的一個標準那對於就是諸弱勢的這些族群提出優先的一個入住的一個方案那也拜託財政部評估是不是有機會由公股、行庫、統籌募集建設的資金的一個可行性那請一個院內提出書面報告"},{"start":7565.009,"end":7565.309,"text":"國際販運局副主委、高副主委"},{"start":7600.892,"end":7621.673,"text":"市長我想請教一下這個國人最關心的就是年輕人的一個就業的機會另外一個是居住的問題我想請問一下20歲到30歲就是剛出社會的年輕人大概有多少比例自己擁有自己的住宅"},{"start":7623.018,"end":7626.559,"text":"所以我們特別從這個數字知道我們最關心的就是年輕人因為年輕人在台灣住不起生不起養不起"},{"start":7650.186,"end":7665.897,"text":"這個是國安的重大危機啊所以我們要來大力的來支持年輕人多多來幫助他們另外一個數字是30歲到40歲有沒有統計過年輕人自有自購房屋的比率是多少"},{"start":7668.568,"end":7684.182,"text":"其實一般來講我剛剛提到全國的自有率是大概將近9成嘛那年紀越高的自有率相對起來就會越高啦那20、30、30、40它的比例我們再查一下再跟委員報告好嗎"},{"start":7684.702,"end":7699.831,"text":"是你剛剛說90%以上事實上這不是我們關係的數字啊因為你說張忠謀也好郭台銘也好他有10個房子20個房子不是是所有的家庭台灣所有的家庭有將近9成是擁有自由住宅"},{"start":7700.611,"end":7727.846,"text":"對,所以我們現在最擔心的就是那10%可是往下延伸來推的話20歲到40歲他那個數字是會明顯偏高的不是10%有可能的,但是他的父母可能還有不少房子啦那父母是父母的啊天下有很多的年輕人啊自己還是要自食其力啊當然當然,大家都要努力所以我們今天講說居住正義百萬的社宅現在距離目標還差多少"},{"start":7729.772,"end":7753.802,"text":"到今年底的8020萬戶我們會達標我們看到整個數字讓人很擔心比如說租房子很多年輕人北上在雙北、在桃園、在基隆他們有一個工作很不容易可是微薄的薪資光是要付房租就付不起現在請問一下最近租金有沒有飆漲"},{"start":7756.238,"end":7780.564,"text":"當然租金持續上漲這是一個常態那最近幾年租金上漲的幅度是稍微比過去高一些當然主席總署的資料一年是2.6個百分點其實也還沒有到飆漲但是確實比過去漲幅來得高一些一個年輕人如果在台北市平均的薪資如果是三萬八那請問他租一個房子要花多少錢"},{"start":7782.82,"end":7810.379,"text":"臺北的房價當然市中心區跟郊區市中心區市中心區當然一坪一般來講現在可能一坪要到1700到2000塊左右所以租一個房子要多少錢當然就是說你有沒有必要住在市中心區的問題因為你住到內湖北投甚至在新北跟你住到大安那個租金可能是倍數的一個差別所以市長年輕的時間就是金錢當然他能"},{"start":7811.294,"end":7827.827,"text":"主宰離工作環境越近的地方他越有更多的時間充裕的時間所以這也是我們特別今天主持因為有TPAS的協助啦其實現在政府很多元的在協助年輕人好那如果說年輕人會樂於"},{"start":7830.68,"end":7851.118,"text":"感到政府的支持是開心的是滿意的那你就不要蓋了啊不是這樣啦當然我們都知道現在年輕人確實比我們年輕的時候辛苦很多那這個壓力我們都看到所以說拼了命我們在蓋我們拼了命所以說像租金補貼50萬戶你還是趕不上那個進度所以租金補貼50萬戶今年也會達標租金補貼50萬戶今年也會達標你們感覺市長你是覺得是缺錢還是缺人"},{"start":7856.203,"end":7859.824,"text":"其實臺灣很有錢有錢的資金包括超額儲蓄你知道手上大概超過多少請國會副主委"},{"start":7881.181,"end":7895.416,"text":"數據應該都有吧?最近幾年大概每年大概都有3兆左右的超額儲蓄那你知道保險業的資金總資金有多少?好像30多億35兆30多兆"},{"start":7898.979,"end":7909.661,"text":"因為國內有很多的資金很多投資的管道又不多所以之前很多業者根本反映兩件事情"},{"start":7910.41,"end":7933.107,"text":"就是這些那麼多的這個閒置的資金可不可以開創一些好的投資管道讓他們回來在台灣投資第二個這些業者比較關心的問題就是保金保貸光是這些會員就有38萬人還有不包括同仁他們都是面臨一個問題加薪的問題"},{"start":7936.075,"end":7956.861,"text":"怎麼樣照顧員工來加薪這應該要有個良性的循環所以不曉得高副主委你們怎麼樣有效把這些資金面引導到正確的方向比如說新加坡好了為什麼新加坡的主屋他做得很成功難道你們不能比照辦理嗎"},{"start":7958.797,"end":7977.346,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":7977.346,"end":7978.547,"text":"主席可不可以請金管會"},{"start":8000.831,"end":8002.094,"text":"主委還有財政部吧財政部莊部長"},{"start":8008.704,"end":8025.007,"text":"市長你好,事實上我們在立法院這裡開會常常聽不到業者的聲音所以我們也希望說能多多一些交流多多來溝通主委對於這些產業是採取一個積極關心輔導的立場還是不希望他們成長"},{"start":8034.416,"end":8058.434,"text":"作為一個監理機關要關心但是也保持距離這是必然的那剛剛提到的就是海外的這些資金怎麼樣有效的引導回來剛剛高副主委也講如何有效把這些資金引導回來台灣這是很重要的事情保險法需要做什麼樣的修改"},{"start":8059.96,"end":8061.581,"text":"主委,你的立場是會多多來照顧這些所有的產業嗎?"},{"start":8088.186,"end":8089.127,"text":"國內大概就是保守有餘"},{"start":8107.625,"end":8119.279,"text":"我希望主委能多多參考新加坡的做法他們不論是監體機關也好或是政府單位也好常常跟民間的業者有良性的溝通"},{"start":8120.154,"end":8144.83,"text":"當然在溝通的同時也應該多聊聊怎麼樣來幫助員工提高他們的薪資過去新加坡所有的平均包括金融業的薪資從大概15年前到現在已經成長了大概兩倍多主委為什麼國內的員工國內認真打拚的這些年輕人薪水都漲不上去呢"},{"start":8146.369,"end":8171.483,"text":"委員,如果這分兩方面,如果是上市位公司的部分,我們透過願營的機制,透過公開介入,讓上市位公司有獲利的能夠提升他的員工的薪水。如果是金融業的話,其實金融業的待遇相對來講,我們這幾年都有獲利,我想大家看到其實也都有增加的。所以我想不同的上市位公司跟金融業,兩個不同的方法。"},{"start":8171.883,"end":8199.891,"text":"主委我們需要力道能大一點因為這個薪資的上漲永遠追不上物價的上漲人民還是苦哈哈是我想另外我們有金融總會也定期會跟業者去做溝通的另外這有關00940這個高股息的ETF的投資今天一掛上市以後就"},{"start":8201.21,"end":8204.012,"text":"所以是不是現在有持股的投資人不要急著賣?"},{"start":8223.53,"end":8224.89,"text":"謝謝羅明財召委的諮詢請接著我們請王宏威委員諮詢"},{"start":8263.919,"end":8264.319,"text":"主委長,在4月份"},{"start":8283.69,"end":8303.544,"text":"4月份有一個叫做私募股權的一個公會PE公會私募股權公會這個的理事長是台山投資的總經理他對外說這個是新聞稿的一個公開他說這個公會已經發函給各會員確認"},{"start":8312.471,"end":8323.457,"text":"國發會擔任私募股權業主的主管機關好對不起時間暫停一下我再請我們國發會今天有國發會國發會有來請高副主委請繼續好那個我就要請教主委私募股權"},{"start":8338.547,"end":8360.649,"text":"的主管機關是變成國發會他對外說你有沒有覺得怪怪的私募股權不是金管會讀到的當然這個私募基金可能當時有私募股權它是不是屬於證券不見得是證券不見得是證券它不是證交法的有價證券"},{"start":8362.281,"end":8380.251,"text":"因為在政交法裡面沒有規定私募股權屬於有價證券,是嗎?我印象中沒有啊沒有,如果沒有的話就不屬於主管機關也不屬於政交法裡面的一個標的,是吧?好,我在這邊全部都有記錄哦私募股權不是主管股權他的英文是什麼?"},{"start":8392.369,"end":8407.061,"text":"Private Equity FundPrivate Equity Fund那不屬於金管會所以它的主管機關就可以變成國發會好等一下來我們請國發會部主委講一下你們現在已經確認國發會是變成PP Fund的主管機關了嗎"},{"start":8417.018,"end":8439.797,"text":"基本上是的基本上不要基本上是不是是所以你們有查核機制嗎國發會是屬於之前是輔導所以以未來這個private Equity Fund它裡面一樣有運作一樣裡面有沒有內線交易一樣裡面會不會要有這個金融檢查你們有這些相關的機制嗎"},{"start":8441.297,"end":8469.099,"text":"我們基本上就是我們會協同那個金管會協同金管會因為你沒有經檢權所以啊來金管會黃主委你們不要再鬧笑話了這是最近有一些國際金融的人士老講這個新聞我根本連看都沒看到他們就給我說笑死人了全世界的批放不是由中央銀行就是由那個金融機構主管機關來管只有我們用國發會"},{"start":8470.84,"end":8494.135,"text":"這到底是什麼樣的機制你們要不要搞清楚如果今天主委說因為在政交法裡面對於私募股權沒有放在政交法裡面你們就不管可是過去有啊你們可以解釋不是嗎對不對所以你現在要尊重你政交法裡面有沒有把私募股權放進去這一點我是今天因為時間有限我還有其他要問"},{"start":8496.032,"end":8511.605,"text":"這個不要去鬧國際笑話如果全世界都是由主管金融主管機關在管我們跑到國發會是什麼意思啊國發會是輔導他有輔導的功能但是輔導跟管理還是兩碼子事我剛剛不講嗎他要不要做金融檢查"},{"start":8512.426,"end":8538.255,"text":"你擔保他沒有違反政交法的事情嗎?你擔保他沒有內線交易嗎?你擔保他沒有損害消費者、投資人的事情嗎?以後誰來檢查?再來由今晚會檢查你用什麼角色檢查?所以這一點我是今天把它提出來如果有一個新的成立一個協會不能因為由台山,台山是國發會所投資的然後他就拍馬屁讓國發會來當主管機關"},{"start":8540.963,"end":8543.794,"text":"讓國際化上一個大笑話好再來"},{"start":8545.519,"end":8573.165,"text":"剛才有談到00940今天呢眾所矚目因為第一天的掛牌交易那也很不幸啊他今天第一天就掛那個跌破淨值那也可以看到在市場上有一些他們在揮血的有一些大戶都故意掛在9.87啊87量呢都是87張在某一個程度也是要可能是要消遣一下"},{"start":8574.105,"end":8575.525,"text":"我們之前就有講到現在ETF如此的資金大量的流入ETF是"},{"start":8596.971,"end":8614.402,"text":"國內的一個資金動能資金是充沛的可是我們的投資的管道卻是有限的所以來我看下一頁今天我們特別提到我們要怎麼樣把它引導到社會住宅可是事實上整個的"},{"start":8615.482,"end":8631.639,"text":"現在的儲蓄、超額儲蓄率太高但是民間投資率偏低這是一個普遍的現象這個普遍的現象來自於其實也很多年我們都要連續好幾年我們的超額儲蓄都超過3兆以今年的話預計會達到3.8兆"},{"start":8636.644,"end":8658.674,"text":"但是同樣的主計處卻下修了今年的民間的投資率今年民間投資率事實上是被主計處他的估計是腰斬的從原來3.17現在修正到1.45所以這個是整體的其實老講我就是整個行政院未來的新政府應該整個的去"},{"start":8659.654,"end":8686.212,"text":"去來看怎麼樣把這些龐大的資金導入到公共投資去提升我們的民間投資率好但是因為我們今天題目開了社會住宅所以時間暫停一下我想請我們的內政部今天是次長好我請華次長華次長好次長今天你們提出了一個很重大的就是呢未來要發"},{"start":8688.387,"end":8689.668,"text":"財政部委員會和中央銀行和財政部會議"},{"start":8708.616,"end":8732.475,"text":"王委員第一個我們並沒有對外發布我們要發債券但是兩年來我們其實跟很多銀行跟金管會其實我們私下都有溝通過你們有沒有講對你們今天所報告這不是對外這不是你今年的報告嗎對我說我們在規劃評估嘛那你有有沒有找央行嘛有沒有找財政部嘛有沒有找金管會私下都有很多的討論私下討論從來沒有正式的召開過會議"},{"start":8736.863,"end":8760.593,"text":"從來never召開過正式的會議針對這個是大事欸所以說我們就在評估所以我們是用評估的方式在討論好只是評估然後我看你說執請金管會與協助發債券不單純是金管會啦是是還有中央銀行跟財政部因為他有競合的關係嘛中央銀行有他的貨幣政策嘛對不對財政部也有他發債的這個需求嘛甚至主計處都要進來是"},{"start":8762.194,"end":8788.512,"text":"所以我有點意外今天都已經作為正式的報告而且要一兆元的融資金額是非常非常大的如果按照這樣子下去你們恐怕會成為非營業基金裡面最大的這個負債因為你們發債嘛對不對融資也好或發債也好那請問一下你們要發這個永續發展債券準備發多少錢"},{"start":8789.497,"end":8793.48,"text":"所以次長你恐怕針對於金融市場除非金融市場把我們政府的話當成就是我不想講很難聽的話啦來不用理他可是一般來說政府要發這麼大金額的公債"},{"start":8817.981,"end":8818.682,"text":"你大概每一年會多少?"},{"start":8843.283,"end":8859.06,"text":"然後有沒有跟中央銀行有沒有跟金管會聯絡過結果都沒有我覺得這變成一個不曉得什麼時候才會落實好我時間暫停一下我今天要特別講剛才我們也看到有其他的委員在詢問說我們"},{"start":8862.063,"end":8889.141,"text":"羅明財召委找我們幾位委員還有找這個保險局還有跟業者一起參與我覺得這個是非常正常的事情我跟大家講我同樣這一段時間我有受到包含我們的受險員工的聯合工會八大行窟的員工工會來跟我澄清來說明他們的需求"},{"start":8890.049,"end":8907.587,"text":"我已經提案了針對受險員工的有關於他的一些勞資的權益要求金管會要會同勞動部來做修正這個我已經正式提案這個是在今天被爆料之前不是為了因應今天的爆料"},{"start":8908.288,"end":8932.203,"text":"同樣的銀行約工會也跟我們提出了長期以來他們跟財政部爭取一直遲遲都沒有辦法達成的比如說他們覺得一國兩制生育的補助就是不一樣跟其他跟兆豐銀行、第一銀行、華南銀行通通不一樣那我們也決定要幫他提案所以對於立法委員來說我們今天要進入財委會"},{"start":8936.045,"end":8939.111,"text":"要聽業者的意見也要聽員工的意見誰的意見有道理我們要幫他們爭取應該有的權益有什麼問題所以我要在這邊特別的強調"},{"start":8950.083,"end":8970.495,"text":"如果拿這個做什麼樣的操作大可不必我個人我相信我們其他委員也都是值得能夠經得起檢驗如果員工來找我們我們一樣的來傾聽一樣的幫他們提案那麼跟銀行或者受險或者跟金融業者來做一些"},{"start":8971.255,"end":8972.496,"text":"謝謝主席我先請財政部莊部長有請莊部長"},{"start":9000.848,"end":9019.983,"text":"委員好來部長好這個最近有在野黨的立委要提案這個要刪除或是要修正這個運算法他要刪除說運算法裡面說有一條是不定期或是數年一次重大正式的這個特別預算這個要件要把它刪掉"},{"start":9020.583,"end":9038.599,"text":"或是說有提案要主張要刪除當國家遇到戰爭．經濟重大變故災變時．得積極先使用一部分特別預算的但書那請教一下部長這個如果按照這個在野黨的這個修法要把這個預算法相關的條文把它修掉"},{"start":9039.119,"end":9051.572,"text":"那會不會說日後如果啊但是不要遇到但是如果遇到這一個天災地變重大經濟事故的時候那沒有救命錢沒有救命的法源那財政部該怎麼籌措這些財源勒"},{"start":9053.834,"end":9081.363,"text":"跟委員報告那因為裡面有關特別預算裡面編列的相關條件就是剛剛委員所說的那確實是國家如果需要一個重大政推動相關的重大政策或因應緊急的一個狀況的話那因為編列總預算總預算是一年編一次嘛事實上會有一些緩不濟急所以我們透過特別預算的方式來籌備那特別預算的編列之前都要有特別條例特別條例當然也經過大院的同意之後才有可能編列特別預算"},{"start":9082.543,"end":9097.634,"text":"那我這邊剛剛也舉的一個例子像面臨到COVID-19的一個這種情況的話是我知道我是說如果在野黨把這一個相關的條文刪除掉之後會不會對於財政部在日後要求做裁員啊沒有相關的這個法條了怎麼辦"},{"start":9099.199,"end":9126.115,"text":"我想這個會在那個編列特別預算或訂立特別條例的時候可能會遇到一些狀況會一些有些障礙會遇到這些問題嗎?因為天災地變就是沒有辦法在年度的時候設想到的嘛它就是這個非尋常然後就是無預警的會出現你剛才講的COVID-19等等然後還有疫後的經濟的復甦等等那如果沒有相關的條文的話那你要怎麼處理勒?你這些材料要怎麼去找勒?是是是是有遇到困難了?是"},{"start":9126.875,"end":9126.995,"text":"黃主委"},{"start":9151.341,"end":9176.771,"text":"委員長來主委好這個有關授選業的這個資本市主率這個相關的數字都已經公布了嘛對不對2023年度的對3月底對3月底有公布了嘛那這個目前來講的話好像是這個新售還有山山美邦這個這個在有資本不足的地方他們的資本市主率都未達法定標準200%是不是是的"},{"start":9179.121,"end":9179.361,"text":"主席主委"},{"start":9194.942,"end":9216.109,"text":"這個在3月中下旬的時候那有國民黨的召委我們的羅召委這個要求我們這個保險局的局長找了這個相關的受險業者來吃飯那那時候不是正好要公布這一個各個受險公司的這個資本市主率嗎"},{"start":9216.849,"end":9238.645,"text":"那我不曉得這個有沒有相關的影響那請教一下主委是有哪些受選業者有參加這個我不太清楚你知道這件事情嗎我知道你知道這件事情局長有先跟你報告他有跟我說這件事對那你他跟你講這件事情那你就說我知道了還是你有什麼特別的交代或指示嗎"},{"start":9239.724,"end":9242.585,"text":"我也是新晉委員啊沒有找我啊沒有找國民黨跟民眾黨的立委啊"},{"start":9255.871,"end":9257.092,"text":"主委 你有做任何指示嗎?"},{"start":9277.97,"end":9280.812,"text":"那有哪些受選公司參加?"},{"start":9308.576,"end":9331.15,"text":"這可以講啊 為什麼不能講 我剛剛看很多委員說這沒什麼大不了的 這很正常啊 為什麼不能講哪6家這沒有什麼 你如果不講出來那才有問題欸你講出來反而沒有問題 沒有講出來哪6家 那就是秘密的會議我都懷疑你們在搞什麼東西 講出來公開了嘛 就沒有問題啦這不能講嗎 主席時間暫停喔"},{"start":9339.301,"end":9365.078,"text":"好時間暫停商量好之後跟我講好請說因為我們邀請的有一些公司沒空來有些公司有空來有來的啊有來的有國泰、星光、南山還有全球、山商、富邦還有遠雄、宏泰有山商"},{"start":9368.984,"end":9371.486,"text":"沒有特別講什麼嗎?吃飯吃多久啊?"},{"start":9387.526,"end":9409.261,"text":"那個召委安排的我們就中午兩個小時中午兩個小時那也是蠻久的啊也聊蠻久的啊有沒有聊到這個資本市足率的問題啊沒有半度聊什麼就他們互相介紹認識啊等一下要講那麼久啊我介紹你你介紹我要花掉兩個小時的時間喔因為人立委是監督你們金管會"},{"start":9410.469,"end":9418.009,"text":"阿保險局是監督這一個售銜公司那結果今天有立委透過保險局去邀售銜公司來吃飯 諸位阿這樣適合嗎?"},{"start":9420.779,"end":9448.077,"text":"報告委員,我想站在金管會立場,召委要求我們說要安排見財委會的新委員。我想我們對這個意見我們盡量要去處理。但是如果大家這次意見,早上我跟記者報告,如果大家覺得各方委員對這個意見有不同的意見,我們會以後會做跟周委員的處理。這個齁,要有一點這個sense在啦。因為他告訴我們是財委會員,並沒有告訴我們是特定政黨的委員。"},{"start":9449.125,"end":9454.428,"text":"直到發現之後才發現說只有在野黨的立委沒有民進黨的立委那局長不會覺得很奇怪嗎這會不會是一場鴻門宴還是這兩個小時還是吃得很開心"},{"start":9461.36,"end":9483.17,"text":"好,請教一下這個主委這個新光還有山上人壽的這個資本市足率的這個不足的問題要怎麼去解決那有三個方向第一個是大股東現金增資呢那還是呢子公司上繳盈餘那還是呢發行普通股項小股東募集資金都有可能"},{"start":9483.817,"end":9501.517,"text":"有可能那主委比較prefer哪一個方式我沒有prefer我就是看因為您今天詮詢我這個問題不同的公司不同的階段那就是這兩家公司嘛這個星光你有找過他們的嘛找過很多次了找過很多次了那他們要提出什麼樣的方法勒"},{"start":9504.061,"end":9504.942,"text":"那主委是不是認為說這個大股東要這個現金增資比較合適?"},{"start":9519.366,"end":9535.683,"text":"我認為主要股東應該承擔一個維護保護責任的重要的一個義務所以我覺得應該要優先展現這個承諾那這個你講的這樣就講的還蠻明顯的那我接下來我再問一下今天跟社宅有關係的"},{"start":9537.012,"end":9544.818,"text":"過去我發現說我們這個受選業投資在公共建設的情況這個金額佔的比例相當的低2023年1300億2022年931億這等於是說受選業者寧願是投資國外的也不願意來投資國內的公共建設本席查了一個資料受選業者在去年投資了1321億在俄羅斯的國債"},{"start":9567.506,"end":9576.458,"text":"等於是說我們受險業者投資俄羅斯的國債比投資國內公共建設還多,這像話嗎?你投資這個俄羅斯人要去打烏克蘭喔?"},{"start":9577.998,"end":9584.701,"text":"我的重點在於因為那時候當然投資的時候還沒有打烏克蘭打烏克蘭那也不可能去投資我的問題在於說投資國外的這個資金的比例比投資國內公共建設還高"},{"start":9605.37,"end":9628.386,"text":"我們到去年年底保險業的資金有32兆其中有7成是投資國外然後投資國外的公共建設達到7500億投資台灣的公共建設才1300億那我就先請教一下主委了要不要訂出一個KPI啊就是說未來比如說"},{"start":9629.545,"end":9648.615,"text":"三年內那受險業資金要投入這一個多少比例到我們公共建設啊不然你再投資國外還是買國外的這一個債券那結果不投入這一個我們台灣的公共建設過去啊你們給他的那一個風險係數是太高了他們也不願意那現在是有降低了那有沒有一個KPI出來"},{"start":9650.011,"end":9678.897,"text":"報告委員我要跟您報告我們可以鼓勵但是不能去強迫當然啊你的鼓勵就具有喊話的性質啊你的喊話大家就會聽了啊報告委員喊話不一定會聽因為公共建設給的收益跟年期跟固定收益是不一樣的保險業要跟他的商品要去做match如果齁今天這個喊話或是說拜託那都沒有用的話我們今天開這個會就沒有用了啊"},{"start":9679.52,"end":9690.431,"text":"報告委員我們現在提供的就是誘因機制然後剛才國財委有提醒國發會建立一個平台供需保險業需要什麼樣的投資的性質的商品"},{"start":9696.132,"end":9710.661,"text":"今天重點就是說看你們要提供什麼樣的誘因讓這個受險業的資金能夠留在國內投資公共建設這個是今天開會最主要的用意就在這邊嘛所以我才說那你未來是不是能夠訂出一個KPI出來啊"},{"start":9711.823,"end":9713.204,"text":"主席,我30秒就好,那請內政部的花次長"},{"start":9739.576,"end":9755.285,"text":"市長,上個禮拜五有在我們三重這個仁義段有召開一個社宅的公聽會然後呢我不知道你知道的結果在與會有一些當地的居民有不同的意見跟看法那當然我們的立場是支持我們政府蓋社宅"},{"start":9755.945,"end":9783.631,"text":"但是呢 該設宅的時候呢因為你們提出來那個計畫人藝段那個計畫沒有相關的這個公共設施公益設施在那我知道說你們有很多的其他的這個社會住宅都有類似的這些公益設施在那我是希望你們回去檢討一下這個在人藝段的這個設宅是不是能夠把公益設施納進去這個讓附近的居民把這一個社會住宅一起納進來是一個共融最後的一個共融的一個結果"},{"start":9784.639,"end":9805.4,"text":"報告委員,社宅一定是百分之百都是公益設施沒有啦沒有公益設施啦它當整棟就公益設施你知道我在問就是說有沒有什麼公坡公幼之類的啦如果是要百分之要提供一個獨立的特許的村里活動中心那是不可能的我不是指村里活動中心啦那如果是其他的都可以討論都可以討論嘛因為我看你們很多社宅都有類似的設施啊"},{"start":9806.781,"end":9808.722,"text":"謝謝李坤城委員的質詢,我們休息10分鐘"},{"start":9839.821,"end":9848.527,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10639.23,"end":10646.112,"text":"主席、各位立席委員主席我想依序邀請銀行局"},{"start":10647.774,"end":10664.493,"text":"還有國發會財政部莊部長以及金管會黃主委、內政部花次長那我先邀請銀行局莊局長跟國發會副主委有請莊局長跟剛副主委"},{"start":10675.529,"end":10690.678,"text":"兩位好今天是電價調漲的第一天那平均調漲11%那央行估計說今年的全年CPI年增率是2.16%主計總數25日預估為2.03%國發會則預估為2.05到2.15%那為什麼不同到底是誰算錯了可不可以告訴我"},{"start":10703.72,"end":10718.931,"text":"我想那個物價上漲率會根據模型來做推估那模型設定的參數不一樣都會有些微的差異可是可以看到這三個的預測值大概都是在一個區間的範圍之內這個預測值是當初都沒有納入電價調漲的這個設計對不對"},{"start":10726.724,"end":10750.291,"text":"當初在上前次的質詢不管是主計處或者是這個都有央行都有張紙回覆都沒有納入我們物價調漲了應該是說現在這個數字是有納入的那之前的是沒有納入那物價指數不只會影響每年所得稅的免稅還有很多的層面那現在你們預估的都不一樣我們到底要聽誰的"},{"start":10754.008,"end":10768.48,"text":"我們基本上大概都會以主計處的為因為他是一個統計的發行的單位這樣子就是主計處的為準那央行因為他有貨幣政策資金的需要所以他也會有他的"},{"start":10768.968,"end":10769.208,"text":"我邀請財政部莊部長"},{"start":10790.373,"end":10818.6,"text":"委員好部長好部長那個網站上的數據顯示民國111年民間簽約投資公共建設金額是2828億但112年卻只有1876是什麼原因造成了這個短閃了這麼多短閃了1000億跟委員報告111年最主要是因為有6件比較大的超過百億元以上"},{"start":10819.276,"end":10842.959,"text":"主要是根據都市更新條例還有產業創新條例辦理的案件其實按照促參法來辦理的案件來說其實數量並沒有減少另外最近3年民間投資的金額都超過1800億所以民間在投資有關的公建的部分還是算是相當的有信心的只是"},{"start":10844.301,"end":10856.076,"text":"民間機構參與促參法的公共建設投資案件的投資總額占整體公共建設經費比例不到一成那促參成效似乎很差"},{"start":10857.116,"end":10877.703,"text":"那產生不最新的統計2023年受選資金投入公共建設簽約的只有兩案2023年那金額合計只有112.7億那是4年最少案件是4年最少那金額是5年新低那到底是什麼原因可不可以告訴我們"},{"start":10878.595,"end":10878.695,"text":"國務委員報告"},{"start":10900.484,"end":10923.512,"text":"購買公共服務政府有常購買公共服務的機制另外我們現在也在對於有關那個履約期間相關的爭議我們財政部也成立了相關的委員的委員會調解委員調解會然後來協助在執行過程當中發生履約爭議希望他們盡快的把這個解決以後然後持續讓公共服務能夠有效的提供"},{"start":10924.052,"end":10952.404,"text":"另外對於重大公共建設的一個範圍財政部也持續和中央的目的事業主管機關在檢討、調整希望能夠吸引更多的民間資金能夠投注怎麼吸引?部長可不可以告訴我們具體的辦法要怎麼吸引?比如我像剛剛所提的就是說我們擴大它的建設範圍的種類可以有更多的案源那另外就是法規面把它備齊然後對於履約爭議的部分我們提供相關的機制可以盡快的一個解決然後對於重大公共建設範圍做調整"},{"start":10953.8,"end":10975.391,"text":"然後更大的資金可以進來我想這個部分是財政部可以做的部分那我相信我們也可以在國發會審議相關的一個計畫的公共建設計畫的時候我們盡量建議相關主管機關能夠把它改走促餐的模式然後提供按援讓民間的資金可以有相關的投資標的可以來做促餐"},{"start":10976.344,"end":11004.249,"text":"對,那比如說國內齁那目前我們國內保險業的資金達到32兆達到32兆那就保險業龐大的資金要投入國內產業重要建設但是他必須要兩個點要注意的就是說第一個他時間要夠長然後呢他的這個報酬要穩定時間過長報酬要穩定那報酬他們依照保險公司的一個理想報酬投報大概3到4%"},{"start":11005.529,"end":11033.097,"text":"那這3到4%政府要提出什麼樣的公共建設投資案是符合這樣子一個合理的投資報酬?是,所以跟委員報告有關第一個就是我們要多開發相關的案源就是說以初餐的模式來做就是案源的部分要擴大那第二個部分就是我們的法規相關讓它能夠更完備那這個部分金管會其實剛剛在我們的主委的報告裡面也就有法規的一些修正"},{"start":11034.076,"end":11059.868,"text":"保險業可以去投注到公共建設那其實這個部分就您剛剛講第一個一個收益率以及一個時間的長各方面的話其實像我們的一關像民生的一個民生的一個公共公用事業比如說霧水道的霧水下水道的一個處理或者是長照的長照的事業或者是物流中心以及焚化爐這些都是一個比較長年期的而且它的獲益率會有一定的"},{"start":11061.249,"end":11072.875,"text":"的標準。我想這個部分都可以適合的一個案員。那這個部分我們財政部第一個我們也會每一年都會辦理招商大會把相關的案員在這個招商大會裡面提供出來然後讓主辦讓政府機關跟有"},{"start":11076.237,"end":11077.918,"text":"接下來我們再來請金管會黃主委"},{"start":11104.993,"end":11117.766,"text":"委員好 主委好 主委 我們保險業的資金32兆有69.6%到去年9月底有69.6%投資國外 其中61.9%投資有價證券 那受選實際投資國內的公共建設大概是占新台幣1300億"},{"start":11127.196,"end":11154.384,"text":"佔可用資金的0.38%這個比例這麼懸殊那投資國外公共建設約7500億佔了2.2%在金管會調降係數鼓勵投資公建型私募股權基金投資5加2產業的部分的狀況之下那今年可不可以請主委告訴我們今年預計保險資金投入國內公共建設的資金會達到多少"},{"start":11155.914,"end":11171.413,"text":"這個不太容易這個時候去預算但是我們基本上尤其在去年年底已經把一些重要的風險係數都降低了希望能夠去年多少去年是5000多億嗎5000多億5900多億對對對那今年會不會再增加往上走"},{"start":11171.613,"end":11172.214,"text":"主席優生再接著請內政部花次長"},{"start":11193.799,"end":11205.592,"text":"市長112年12月14日在行政院報告推動社宅注宅成果與提升社宅用地供給經濟措施當中預計在今年113年可達到20萬戶社會注宅的目標"},{"start":11210.797,"end":11217.385,"text":"下階段社宅2032年會達到100萬戶的目標請注意喔這一百萬是包括了25萬直接興建25萬包租貸款還有50萬戶的租金補貼加起來總共100萬是"},{"start":11227.438,"end":11238.767,"text":"那這8年,未來8年要完成那當然也要求各縣市在進行這個開發徵收還有施地存貨的時候保留3到5%直轄市5%非直轄市3%專案讓售給中央來興辦社宅"},{"start":11243.231,"end":11263.836,"text":"那針對2035年要完成新建百萬的這樣子的比例等於是全國租屋家戶總數量那未來目標只要是有在外面租屋需求的這些家戶政府都會直接協助並且提出配套措施那請問內政部年底預計完成的20萬戶會不會如期達標"},{"start":11266.236,"end":11289.145,"text":"8月20萬戶這20萬戶今年年底會達標那50萬戶的租金補貼應該就在今年的年中就會達標了所以說其實今年應該就可以做到就是這百萬戶裡面的70萬會在今年其實就做得到那剩下的部分其實現在直接興建每年可以增加兩萬戶包租貸款大概可以增加"},{"start":11289.445,"end":11290.105,"text":"臺中市社宅進度"},{"start":11303.513,"end":11309.657,"text":"到目前2月統計臺中市中央加地方預計興建10,6406戶臺中市府佔了10225中央負責佔了6181市府的達成率72%中央只有65%"},{"start":11321.786,"end":11333.062,"text":"以本席的選區烏日一個榮權安居是國家住宅及都市更新中心在烏日區的首座社宅目標工程費10億4月2日要舉辦開工典禮這部分"},{"start":11337.568,"end":11338.268,"text":"主席我再一下30秒齁"},{"start":11359.665,"end":11374.651,"text":"主要就是說中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫是從111年到114年就等於是說這個計畫到2025年那總補貼的規模達到300億如果要達到租屋住宅百萬戶的目標是不是租屋補貼"},{"start":11375.811,"end":11400.391,"text":"除了繼續實施還要放大這個規模對不對?租用補貼會實施因為賴總統的政見裡面就提到會繼續實施到至少未來的8年都沒有問題嘛那包租貸款跟直接信件都要做啦所以說這個資源當然會需求會擴大我先請教部長啦房租一定漲現在萬物期漲、電價漲什麼都漲那房租一定跟著漲那租屋補貼會不會漲?補貼的金額會不會升高?"},{"start":11403.614,"end":11415.266,"text":"這個當然滾動檢討,如果說補貼金額不足,後續當然還是可以滾動來檢討。好,繼續加油啦,好不好?好,謝謝。好,謝謝顏寬文委員質詢。接著我們請伍立法委員質詢。"},{"start":11428.93,"end":11433.113,"text":"謝謝主席先請金管會主委有請黃主委主委好請教一下主委您有沒有接到就是這些銀行要借錢給你貸款給你的電話有沒有常常接到"},{"start":11453.961,"end":11468.453,"text":"有過一兩次沒有經常我自己是經常大概每兩三天大概都會接到一次那我知道的是其實在去年10月銀行工會已經有發布一個銀行業"},{"start":11469.954,"end":11492.148,"text":"電話行銷應遵循原則其中包括要主動告知我這個電話個資你是怎麼拿到的甚至是客訴中心要註記拒絕行銷名單提供表達停止行銷管道等等我是在想這個部分其實很多的民眾還不知道"},{"start":11493.169,"end":11506.714,"text":"他可以去進行客訴或者表達拒絕那這個部分是不是金管會這邊有去做一些宣導應該有我是不是可以請局長跟您做一個說明沒關係就有沒有就好了"},{"start":11509.791,"end":11532.323,"text":"報告委員這是去年剛完成的所以銀行他會有一個納入內部作業規範的時間那這個部分的話我是希望宣導要多做一點讓我們民眾知道那甚至是民眾是希望說可不可以請你們監督管理一下不要常常打電話"},{"start":11533.864,"end":11558.554,"text":"可以想別的一個方式那其實對很多人來講他上班時間漏接因為那個都是正常的電話號碼所以很多人其實是非常的困擾希望監管會這個地方針對這個部分能夠多注意那除了電話行銷之外呢其實網路的廣告也是讓人不生其擾像我們來看這個某個銀行他上面呢是用什麼現實"},{"start":11560.775,"end":11582.128,"text":"所以會讓人家覺得說很有誘因那請教一下信用貸款可以用現實行銷嗎他是一個銷售的手那個一個策略吧就是用時間讓你覺得那他可以用他用這種方式去誘使一些沒有需求的人就真的來貸款一下"},{"start":11583.752,"end":11595.805,"text":"沒有需求就不要戴了就這樣是啦那這個是要透過你們的宣導但是他確實是有這些行為金管會也要約束我們來看一下他不但但是誘使喔他的欺騙"},{"start":11597.297,"end":11616.653,"text":"這個是昨天晚上3月31號5點44分他的倒數計時鐘還剩6個小時他說一段式利率1.9%手續費0元要把握機會結果今天4月1號我們一看又重新倒數29天幾小時"},{"start":11619.755,"end":11641.72,"text":"然後等到他真的去貸款的時候合約書呢就列出他原本說利率是1.98嘛結果呢他就會列出1.98至15.99到高利貸的一個上限然後還有開辦費本來說是0元現在變成9000元那不曉得這樣有沒有違法我們的金融消費者保護法的第8條"},{"start":11642.92,"end":11664.077,"text":"委員跟您報告如果從這個頁面上看他應該不是金融機構他是個代辦貸款的公司那所以金管會管不上的意思我們沒有管可是我們有宣導民眾不要隨便跟代辦貸款公司做往來那一般的民眾他可以去分辨嗎有啊金融機構就有金融機構的名字這邊沒有名字"},{"start":11665.297,"end":11679.308,"text":"我們的消費者要如何從那麼重的我們都不是財經的專家我們要怎麼樣去分辨因為事實上現在太多人被詐騙然後這個衍生的惡性循環其實是蠻嚴重的"},{"start":11682.245,"end":11696.108,"text":"銀行就有銀行的名字就像我們銀行開戶不會去這個money101去開戶好所以這個凱基銀行是一個假的銀行哪裡有凱基銀行這邊沒有凱基銀行有啊這就是凱基銀行啊其實網路上這樣的很多啊"},{"start":11697.554,"end":11722.234,"text":"抱歉因為我有點看不清前面有講到凱基可是這邊看到的我本來不想講阿右邊的是凱基對但是貓年101這個不是什麼那沒有關係主委我的意思是說其實這些就是一種提醒那這些都是來自於我們的民意那希望我們金管會齁在這個部分也能夠去做一個協助有我想我們會照委員的提示去處理好"},{"start":11723.676,"end":11726.963,"text":"有機會給我一份報告接下來請財政部長"},{"start":11735.305,"end":11760,"text":"委員好部長好我們今天的專報是來安排說我們怎麼樣積極推動金融業來投注國內的公共建設那今天的報告裡面我看到第二頁第三頁呢都重複了一段話本部將持續督導各公股金融事業於符合法規下在投融資評估過程中納入ESG因子點點點"},{"start":11761.541,"end":11787.734,"text":"我其實是想要先請教一下因為我們這邊有一個夜報的統計資料上個月底公股銀行辦理重大公共建設專案貸款有141件餘額是2536.15億元請教一下部長您覺得在辦理這些公共建設的一個專案貸款您看重的是件數還是餘額"},{"start":11790.316,"end":11816.371,"text":"我想這兩部分都非常重要那建樹就表示他們參與的案數是多的那於而表示民間需要的一個資金融通的部分我們公股行庫所給予的一個貸款好 那我想要先請教一下在座的各位公股行庫的董事長、總經理您支持並且願意投入國家公共建設的可不可以舉個手"},{"start":11818.167,"end":11837.501,"text":"跟委員報告不好意思今天因為我們並沒有請公共建設的動作是是是不好意思那依您看他們有很支持投入我們的國家公共建設嗎是的我們的公共航空其實基本上也擔負有國家相關的一些政策好那我們來看一下我這邊看到的資料是"},{"start":11838.442,"end":11855.459,"text":"公股、行庫誰最挺公共建設如果以件數來看的時候第一名是第一銀行35件第二名土銀第三名彰化銀行最後一名是台銀一件那如果說以金額來看的話"},{"start":11856.4,"end":11877.828,"text":"第一名是趙鋒495億第二名台銀第三名第一銀最後一名是輸出入銀行26億那我想要請教一下部長這個台灣銀行如果說作為百分百的政府持有的公股行庫他投入只有一件可不可以請部長幫忙說明一下"},{"start":11883.708,"end":11897.672,"text":"雖然台灣銀行是一件但它的金額有425億所以我就是想要請教一開始問您啊您覺得件數比較重要還是餘額比較重要我覺得這兩樣都重要所以在您來看台灣銀行這樣是沒問題的"},{"start":11900.013,"end":11921.601,"text":"如果這個案子確實有資金融通需要而且也符合他們重大公共建設的範圍當然我覺得也是蠻重要的那再請教一下部長那這些保險業的資金投入呢我們大家都知道保險業的資金很多很多33兆那過去礙於法規他大部分都是在國外"},{"start":11922.481,"end":11946.297,"text":"然後呢等於是幫別的國家投資重大的基礎建設然後又要花很多的錢去做一些避險說實在很划不來很不值得那想請教一下部長你認為保險業他要進入到我們的公共建設他是有什麼障礙嗎儘管我們看到金管會已經做很多努力了包括將這一些保險業派任的放寬還有這個風險係數的調降等等"},{"start":11950.768,"end":11976.957,"text":"那您看還有什麼困難跟委員報告保險業資金投資到公共建設這個部分我們不管是我們的促餐的部分的相關的法規還有我們金管會這邊相關的法規其實都一直在完備及友善但如果提到我們的公股行庫裡面的所謂的人壽部門的話目前並沒有在投資這個國內公共建設主要原因是他們的"},{"start":11977.917,"end":12004.393,"text":"資金規模其實並不大並不像民間的一個金控下面的保險公司它的資金規模比較龐大所以您也知道嘛就是我們這一些保險業配合政府的公共投資552億當中台銀人手它是零嘛對 是沒有的您剛剛也幫他們說那我就是想要請教一下因為您一開始您的業務報告"},{"start":12006.141,"end":12014.499,"text":"因為應該是很重要你才會重複兩次你說會持續督導那我是想知道說有沒有去具體規劃一些投資標的"},{"start":12016.461,"end":12039.37,"text":"具體規劃投資標的我想這個部分涉及到我們相關的金融事業裡面他們的一個公司治理去選擇那財政部基於股權管理的話不會去指導他們去做哪一些項目那當然比如說像社會住宅這一次那個連帶案裡面那因為住都中心他是我們國家在推動社會住宅的一個相當重要的一個行政法人"},{"start":12042.673,"end":12057.044,"text":"請教部長除了社會住宅其實現在高齡化安養機構的需求量也很大那也許他們也會很想要投入長照那法規上面有沒有障礙目前來說我們的法規沒有限制"},{"start":12058.025,"end":12073.456,"text":"他們願不願意投入你們要怎麼督導怎麼引導部長因為時間到我是這樣子想我是希望說我們其實有時候我們在教育界就考試引導教學了所以評鑑其實是很重要"},{"start":12074.576,"end":12097.332,"text":"我們來看一下我們的這些董總的績效評鑑其實像出席董事會會議對事業機構的經營成果配合政府政策達成目標那像這個部分配分18分可是就沒有去獨立計分針對這些投入公共建設的部分那我想這些其實都很重要甚至是我之前"},{"start":12097.952,"end":12120.557,"text":"第一次我有跟特別質詢就是提到您我那時候也要求說兩個月給回覆像一些包括我們的公共銀行能不能帶頭乘坐這些原住民保留地等等啊怎麼樣去做誘因做加分那部長我是希望說這些部分希望我們的財政部都能夠來研議看看好不好好的謝謝委員好謝謝部長謝謝有力的委員的質詢請接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢"},{"start":12136.658,"end":12141.831,"text":"現在主席我想請內政部花次長、財政部部長有請花次長、莊部長、黃主委"},{"start":12152.641,"end":12179.238,"text":"委員長市長,我想今天很重要就是有關社會住宅的新建那居住正義最重要的幾樣事情第一個是要蓋足夠的社會住宅第二件事情是要給弱勢租金補貼第三件事情是要做稅制改革但是在新建社會住宅的過程中我們發現從新建到現在政府花了很多的大餅"},{"start":12180.239,"end":12185.699,"text":"一直很努力地在做但是資金跟相關的土地釋出都是困難的"},{"start":12186.758,"end":12213.991,"text":"華市長我想問一下我們現在的目標是要到今年要完成20萬戶12萬戶的目標是嗎12萬戶職業興建至少要做到決標完成是所以我們現在已經到今天2月是達到9.65萬戶2月底是9.65萬戶所以你在一年之內要完成再發包出去2.3萬戶是中央加地方基本上是朝這個方向在努力所以做得到嗎應該做得到"},{"start":12215.014,"end":12225.483,"text":"我現在擔心的是國內現在營造業包括各個公共建設以及很多的大廠都在興建我擔心的是你標的出去也做的出來"},{"start":12227.082,"end":12227.282,"text":"主席"},{"start":12247.745,"end":12268.28,"text":"我看到的是未來8年我們還要再蓋13萬戶這13萬戶裡面直接興建的社宅要達到25萬戶所以目前為止中央到現在你說要在新區開發的部分包括區段徵收跟勢力重劃要留5%我想問一下次長你現在預計這樣子的數量會有多少在你的未來13萬戶裡面佔多少比例"},{"start":12270.981,"end":12292.899,"text":"目前在陸續盤點正在推動中的區立重劃跟區段徵收大概有多少數量我現在還必須跟地方政府詳談因為實質上有一些所以你的13萬戶不包括這個包括啊當然包括但是你還不知道有多少就先畫了一個13萬戶出來在盤點還沒有到很精準所以我不方便直接講有多少次長"},{"start":12293.74,"end":12317.279,"text":"我們是先定了13萬戶再決定新區開發不是這樣吧所以你的數量請你很清楚的告訴我們你的13萬戶怎麼來在什麼樣的土地上面有這麼多的數量可以興建土地是當然有其實當然這背後還是搭配政府的量能我希望它不是一個大餅這看起來就是你應該知道有土地你也知道有新區開發土地是絕對夠"},{"start":12319.841,"end":12320.621,"text":"當然是,當然是,我們從來都不隨便說這些事情的"},{"start":12337.287,"end":12351.413,"text":"第二個部分就是財務的部分目前看到的是注入中心預計要沽貸了4000億那現在我看到數字大概是實際動用的是40億那是連貸案實際上社宅動用的資金是大概280億280億所以連貸案是預計受信額都是4000億接下來看到你的計畫非常的偉大所以我們將來會將近有一兆的"},{"start":12364.258,"end":12364.598,"text":"來我請教財政部長"},{"start":12390.951,"end":12402.121,"text":"這些債政府我們自己的債我們自己中央政府發行中央公債的利率是多少目前為止大概是1.1多對嗎那花次長你們的債的公債的利率會是多少"},{"start":12414.697,"end":12443.296,"text":"總統,我們現在有兩種融資管道一種是融資平台大概是在0.8到2之間所以差異比中央政府的公債要高還是多?比較早的當然比現在公債便宜所以你會舉借的比中央政府公債高嗎?現在如果再借的話會因為升息了嘛所以現在問題是在於我們這一兆的錢要從哪裡來?全部都是融資嗎?"},{"start":12444.659,"end":12447.431,"text":"還是你今天說要發行所謂的永續發展債券?"},{"start":12449.107,"end":12449.587,"text":"來,金管會,黃主任"},{"start":12479.198,"end":12497.583,"text":"我們現在我看到你的報告裡面有非常多開放了銀行開放了保險我想問一下我們這個規範是說保險業可以專案運用然後也鼓勵他我想請問一下現在保險業投入社會住宅的新建投資有多少沒有特別明確大概沒有有沒有時間暫停來保險局市長"},{"start":12507.812,"end":12525.31,"text":"那另外就是不動產裡面有關地上權的投資興建你這邊講2700億有沒有社會住宅也沒有這邊應該也沒有包括社會住宅包括銀行當然有連帶所以保險業的部分雖然我們的法規已經放寬了但是沒有保險業投入的原因是什麼"},{"start":12526.061,"end":12549.569,"text":"是因為他放寬的範圍不是只有限於社會住宅是包括過度跟危老但是他沒有投入社會住宅是事實也就是說剛剛講的假如我們國家的政策是朝向社會住宅假如我們的法律限制也把社會住宅排除在保險業投資不動產之外我們希望有另外一個叫做誘因讓他能夠投入這個市場主委同意嗎"},{"start":12550.575,"end":12578.035,"text":"我同意但是前提必須要符合保險資金預約的性質當然當然而且所以已經相關保險法已經修正啦已經修正不受到相關的限制啦當然是符合規定的才所以現在的問題是政府有一套很完整的計畫在蓋新建社會住宅保險業也放寬了但是沒有半個人投入進去我們今天的問題就是希望怎麼樣讓這些資金有條件的能夠投入社會住宅的新建這也是將來"},{"start":12579.016,"end":12580.838,"text":"協助一下讓我們的相關的資金你這一兆的資金有很多人可以投資的"},{"start":12592.944,"end":12594.586,"text":"今天我們要問的問題就是接下來這一兆你要發債"},{"start":12609.326,"end":12633.184,"text":"行政法人發債的利率我建議不要比公共債務高我們一般中央政府的公債高否則你用政府借錢還比較划算第二個部分就是有這麼多的閒置資金或者是可投資的對象去怎麼樣讓他誘因所以我想了現在我們鼓勵社會住宅住宅法已經修訂了我們也鼓勵民間自己興建對吧"},{"start":12634.805,"end":12643.951,"text":"市長現在有沒有民間有沒有人來新辦現在其實我們大概只有旅館轉社宅那個部分有還是沒有沒有你知道原因是什麼"},{"start":12650.194,"end":12650.654,"text":"最後一分鐘我想請一下財政部"},{"start":12668.888,"end":12688.133,"text":"我們有很多公共土地,剛剛市長已經說了,土地都在,要鼓勵民間,我們的民間知不知道你有多少土地要釋出來做搜射宅?你有任何平台讓民間來做調查,或者是來申請查詢,或者是來申辦所謂的民間的社會住宅嗎?"},{"start":12690.495,"end":12700.845,"text":"財政部有國有財產署．國有財產署對國有非公用土地提供新建設宅一直是都非常積極總共有82樓我只是說我們有一個平台讓他查到剛剛花次長說的我們的地不是問題我們也鼓勵民間興建也讓保險業來投資但是沒有一個平台讓他找到說他可以找到地沒有誘因讓他進來"},{"start":12712.156,"end":12731.437,"text":"國有土地在興建社宅的部分有一個非常的我們跟內政部之間有一個非常好通的一個平台是有的我們希望你訂出一個相關公告的情策定期來公開然後讓這些狀況能夠讓想要申辦所謂民間新辦社會住宅的人能夠來找得到"},{"start":12733.619,"end":12753.094,"text":"政府所提供的土地來民間興建是,謝謝委員的指教我想內政部這邊他有一個補充報告委員喔,獎勵民間興建社會住宅並沒有說要由國家來提供公共土地並沒有要提供但是如果沒有政府的土地請問哪一個人會去買地來蓋社會住宅其實這是可以規劃設計的我們正在規劃公地"},{"start":12755.436,"end":12775.093,"text":"民建、民營可能是一個方向也是你的多元設宅的方向不要把它這個限制因為土地才是政府蓋設宅最缺乏的資源最後我再用一個簡單的時間我們出山把修過以後政府有常取得公共服務機制的PPP制度我想請問"},{"start":12776.494,"end":12788.37,"text":"次長跟財政部長以及金融會主委我們針對社會住宅接下來還有長照如果納入所謂有償的PPP各位可以朝這個方向去規劃嗎這個部分有關有償PPP這個部分我們"},{"start":12793.362,"end":12815.209,"text":"要不要納入社會住宅其實我們有一個政策評估這個部分是財政部正在進行當中社會住宅、長照都會是將來政府要做但是又可以節省自我成本的一個方法好不好請三位就這個規劃的方向也給北溪一個你們目前在規劃的內容好的謝謝謝謝黃先生委員諮詢請接著我們請陳玉君委員諮詢"},{"start":12824.878,"end":12825.601,"text":"主席我們請這個國發會有請高副主委"},{"start":12837.029,"end":12854.081,"text":"委員好 今天我們雖然是在討論怎麼促進金融保險業的資金投入公共建設社會住宅不過我們因為金門離島的基金在我們國發會主管所以我們現在本期是聚焦在民間企業參與金門投資開發的情形"},{"start":12857.063,"end":12858.486,"text":"這個審計部在110年金門縣總決算的審核報告裡頭有提到幾點其中一個是有關於"},{"start":12869.319,"end":12886.208,"text":"養生健康造物產業專區還有另外一個工商綜合專區的這些開發案都是久未進行開發或者已經預了這個開發的期程沒有積極列管或檢討變更回復沒有達到預期的這個效果"},{"start":12888.349,"end":12903.925,"text":"請問國發會,這個泰偉工商綜合專區開案還有一個另外一個這個民間籌設護理和養生社區案兩個案子在民國99年及104年都是行政院核定的離島重大建設投資計畫為什麼到今天都沒有任何開發投資進度?國發會不用檢討嗎?"},{"start":12907.514,"end":12925.296,"text":"報告陳委員,因為我主管的業務不是報告立法,然後我想這個案子是不是我們會後可以再跟委員一個...那我想請問你,那我請問你,你會後提供資料給我齁?那我想請問你喔,這個有關你們的..."},{"start":12926.681,"end":12927.621,"text":"我們請財政部一起上來"},{"start":12956.698,"end":12957.639,"text":"請莊部長這兩個計畫提出來後是銀行評估貸款計畫是離島基沒有配合出資造成執行率落後還是什麼原因財政部呢"},{"start":12976.718,"end":12988.386,"text":"這個部分離島建設開發基金的一個待放這個部分是國發會啊是啊對所以今天才問他那他說他不知道但是我們想了解說臺灣的這個臺灣地區的這些銀行啊相關的這個業者啊是"},{"start":12992.609,"end":13007.507,"text":"銀行評估當然就要不給就民間到金門要去做投資相關的這個重大建設也是當然今天講社會之外但金門也是需要重大建設那銀行沒有去的原因是因為這個離島建設基金不配合去投入呢還是什麼原因"},{"start":13010.334,"end":13028.65,"text":"這個部分我想跟委員報告我們到離島去做重大的公共建設其實促餐的模式也可以做那我們促餐師也都一直在輔導然後輔導我們當地的一個案件如果金門地區有促餐案件金門的案件都一直沒有成功"},{"start":13030.312,"end":13031.474,"text":"目前想是離島基金跟銀行的業者金管會財政部協會"},{"start":13046.954,"end":13048.215,"text":"對企業戶的核准的一個比例也都達到90%"},{"start":13075.25,"end":13091.979,"text":"並沒有說不願意做金門的地區那看起來銀行很支持啊公股、航空也很支持那是我們立法基金部支持嗎?不會,我們還是基本上因為我們還是要銀行還是要考慮它貸放的這個獲利性安全金那是不是國發基金不支持?那沒關係你會了解嘛齁我剛問你的齁"},{"start":13093.941,"end":13104.1,"text":"金門這麼多年來只核准兩個中大建設計畫但是到現在都沒有任何進度麻煩你說你不了解沒關係麻煩你會有提供這兩個計畫的相關的進度到底是"},{"start":13105.413,"end":13124.509,"text":"業者不想往前走還是他遇到困難銀行不支持或者離島基金不支持或者是業者本身就只是虛晃一招這個我們都要了解好嗎提供相關資料可以嗎如果是虛晃一招也趕快把這個東西變回原狀不要好像只是在金門圈地但是沒有時機要建設我們金門"},{"start":13125.29,"end":13133.512,"text":"好 第二個問題 這個我們請財政部請問這個您看一下這個表近5年我們金門縣課徵這個菸酒稅這個金額您看看108年20.27億多那到了最高的時候111年我們這個金門縣交的這個菸酒稅是36.4億交給中華民國的政府對 那在這個之前呢"},{"start":13151.291,"end":13173.87,"text":"在這之前之前呢以前我們基本不是交這個國發會可以下去喔現在是財政部那個之前我們不是繳菸酒稅的那個時候是在繳這個公賣利益的那個時候在菸酒專賣改制前我們是繳公賣利益嘛那改制以後我們繳這個菸酒稅因為說還所得稅嘛那財政收支方法這個說第8條第4項有說"},{"start":13178.134,"end":13192.052,"text":"按照現在這個劃分法對燕酒稅的分配規定我們金門縣政府每一年可以從中央獲得分配7.5到7.7億的燕酒稅收入你看看我們收到7.5到7.7億那我剛跟你說我們交多少錢呢"},{"start":13193.345,"end":13206.569,"text":"我們交多少錢?我們交到36.4億我們一年交給中央政府36.6億只分配到7億多等於是我們一年多我們交給中央政府是多繳了29億多但是在這個"},{"start":13209.298,"end":13230.384,"text":"以前公賣制度以前我們不是這樣交的我們那時候每一瓶交64塊那現在我們交了以前的2.5倍啊這個這應該是國庫署知道吧國庫署的那我看到你們在這個財政收支方法在有5次送到我們立法院來審議啊從這個你看這個資料裡頭從91年96年"},{"start":13234.565,"end":13255.607,"text":"九十一年、九十六年、九十七年、九十九年、一百零一年五次提案人是行政院你們提出來的這個修法因為現在的這個這個方法這樣對我們金門市比較不利的就是我們的我們交給臺北這邊是36億你們給我們只有7億多我們每年要多"},{"start":13256.508,"end":13277.575,"text":"就是原來這個公賣利那個時候用公賣利的時候不用繳這麼多那現在我們要繳比以前多但我們的收入比以前少你們分配給以前少所以貴院你們有提出來說要修改這個制度這個制度你有看到在你們的財化法裡頭這是左邊這個你們提出了5次左邊這個福建省金門幾點江兩線"},{"start":13279.776,"end":13308.031,"text":"到時候收入減除1%作為這個積增和查緝費用後之80%分配給各該縣就是說我們交的應該要大部分都要回歸到我們金門縣這個比較符合這麼從民國90民國90幾年來公賣利益改成改成這個燕酒燕酒稅以後這麼10多年來我們總共這個交給中央多交了"},{"start":13309.531,"end":13337.619,"text":"1996年到現在18年過去齁我們等於是每一年都流血輸出給中央大概30億啦18年過去這樣一年30億一年20億好了也幾百億啊也是好幾百億等於是我們金門造成我們金門的財政衝擊啦我們金門現在財政不落以往啊以前當然都說金門縣市財力不錯但是因為我們這樣不停的流血輸出給臺北的這個中央政府齁所以金門的財政現在是比較辛苦所以你們提出的這個"},{"start":13338.499,"end":13366.296,"text":"行政院版這個提了5次了嘛,您看到嗎?是有看到,謝謝委員那這個東西你們這個下去這個我想整部的財政收支劃分法的修正很不容易涉及到很多的縣市,相當的辛苦那我想說本席也會提出來是不是你們也朝著這個方向來做進行修正按照你們以往的這個修正方向是謝謝委員,您剛剛也提出來這個過往的修正的一個版本"},{"start":13366.676,"end":13368.218,"text":"因為最後沒有完成整個立法程序那未來在您提的這個建議未來在假設我們在做這個調整的機制的時候會一併納入考量整部修正不容易我想就這一條我們可以先來進行修正彌補金門來"},{"start":13384.894,"end":13384.914,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":13414.794,"end":13416.176,"text":"我們先來修這個財政收入方法有關這個菸酒稅的部分"},{"start":13431.075,"end":13455.509,"text":"那協助我們盡可能度過下去可能面臨的即將可能面臨的這個可能舉債的這個危機啊這個部分我們來提出來一起這個你們按照你們的願板來提出來這個請這個會部來支持齁財化法修正可能涉及到整體的分配機制是很難沒有我是說這一條先來修吧你回去研究一下吧你回去看一下吧好嗎好我們回去看一下謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":13458.551,"end":13459.912,"text":"主席,我請金管會黃主委我請黃主委"},{"start":13487.704,"end":13494.823,"text":"黃主委我先問你一個題外的問題齁前一陣子我提出這三大註定公司他們"},{"start":13496.533,"end":13525.058,"text":"對我們社會尤其對青年朋友造成的危害那你們也很盡責你們當下你們就有約談了這三家註定公司不過就我所知啊最大的這一家中租敵核聽說你們約談他的時候他竟然給金管會的答覆他們董事長意思是說跟你用視訊就可以啦天啊"},{"start":13526.584,"end":13551.195,"text":"跟你用視訊我真搞不懂欸我們國家的力量竟然培植出這樣一個金融怪獸來吞食我們全體國民的權益不打緊他們連我們最起碼官方對他們的約束"},{"start":13552.622,"end":13555.283,"text":"有這樣子可惡的公司那個黃主委有這樣的事那你看再來該怎麼辦難道再來金管會跟"},{"start":13575.253,"end":13585.768,"text":"這些金融怪獸都只能用視訊囉視訊還要再看看他們董事長總經理的空閒時間嗎是這樣子嗎那個黃主委你認為應該"},{"start":13592.276,"end":13615.748,"text":"是不是應該要加強?是,跟委員報告,我跟您報告其實租賃公司尤其中租我們互動不是只有這一次去年年初BNPL的事情我們就已經定了一個原則請他再到租賃公會去通過那時候是面對面的,沒錯,都有面對面那我的了解銀行局可能這次剛開始搖的時候對方可能要用視訊但銀行局堅持要面對面,他們就來了"},{"start":13617.421,"end":13630.377,"text":"當然我們當然要堅持好不好因為今天這個主題不是談這個我禮拜三再跟你繼續談這件事情現在就是另外喔也是一個非今天主題啦就是ETF"},{"start":13632.981,"end":13654.016,"text":"我就講00940好了我認為金管會在這一部分的控管要加強我就舉00940啦00940竟然在他的名稱上面直接就台灣價值高息那其他當然先前的00937啦"},{"start":13656.238,"end":13684.504,"text":"大收益存好債然後00934吧是不是成長高股息都是這些高股息啦高收益啦高息啦還把台灣價值加進去天啊那個主委我認為這種誇大虛幻大多大啦高多高啦"},{"start":13686.094,"end":13714.324,"text":"聽了結果00940兩天募集了我們社會1800億的資金欸人家以前0050還弄了20年才3000億欸兩天1800億那就可見我們社會的油資大家包括生土小民們對於能夠有多少一些利息收入的期待這個我們只能"},{"start":13716.359,"end":13737.975,"text":"對,我們生斗小民現在遇到這麼低的利息我們抱以同情啦但是不應該任由這些金融怪物直接在名稱上就這樣欺騙我們一般的蔡蘭族媽媽族生斗小民不是這樣嗎?欸00940前天啦"},{"start":13741.678,"end":13756.525,"text":"我看到好像跌破他的票面價值欸好像剩8塊錢欸沒有他今天才上市今天才上市對啊全天不是私下的那個價格不是8塊錢不是嗎然後他們現在00940欸已經有自救會了欸聽說人數還不少數萬人以上的天啊"},{"start":13768.72,"end":13788.785,"text":"所以我意思齁那個黃主委我舉個例子給你聽啊我們那個路邊賣米粉湯的雜貨店賣米粉的過去我們政府奪名查秋豪欸欸米粉沒有米就說啊不能叫米粉這要叫做炊粉天啊那00940"},{"start":13795.657,"end":13796.638,"text":"提供一碗牛肉泡麵18塊以前"},{"start":13823.075,"end":13823.275,"text":"所以,黃主委"},{"start":13852.302,"end":13865.133,"text":"這不能怪你個人啦我覺得就是我們金管會可能雞皮疙瘩就隨便這一些大財團們隨便他們那邊胡亂扯不是嗎讓他回復到他該00940簡單名稱就名稱啦不要取那些什麼高啦什麼大啦可以嗎"},{"start":13879.81,"end":13894.584,"text":"委員第一點我想非常敬佩您對這個議題的關心這也是我們關心的就是我覺得民眾有餘裕要投資這些ETF商品我覺得都是好的但是業者在招攬上面的行銷的話術可能不能夠有過度讓民眾誤會的這個情況的話術更多了"},{"start":13899.429,"end":13925.365,"text":"我剛講的是他直接在名字上面話術一堆他還把巴菲特弄到他們的廣告單裡面還寫神級的高股息天啊你要去看一看他們那個廣告詞更可怕我是說名稱畢業證明乎不能讓他用名稱來枉騙我們社會大眾好我因為時間有限我主要要跟你談今天的主題齁"},{"start":13927.062,"end":13934.952,"text":"另外兩點啦第一個就是IEITS齁我認為那個財政部長你一起上來好嗎要請總部長你們用不斷的政權化"},{"start":13941.947,"end":13958.325,"text":"這個基金要來引導我們社會的油資進入公共建設這個是對的可是本席害怕的是什麼呢因為你們定說一定比率來公共建設"},{"start":13959.446,"end":13984.055,"text":"那其他扣除一定比例那就是等於跑去又炒作不動產啊那糟糕我們台灣房價現在已經過高過度炒作那你又讓這麼大筆的資金扣除所謂的一定比例到公共建設以外你們又未到不動產去所以我要請教就是說一定比例是多少"},{"start":13984.835,"end":14005.217,"text":"一定比例那個部長跟主委你們個別認為是多少?報告委員這個其實目的那個不是炒房我們特別強調我知道不是炒房你目的不是嘛可是你募來這麼多的基金的話你只要一定比例是公共建設"},{"start":14007.621,"end":14030.971,"text":"現在這些財團對公共建設他們的興趣極缺那怎麼辦這邊跟您報告這邊可能講的是那種綠能啊這種替代能源的這些產業是政府正在推動的能源政策相關的這個也是公共建設範圍之內對我認為我們現在要推的公共建設太多比方說我就說捷運嘛"},{"start":14032.229,"end":14058.15,"text":"他有很穩定可以去開發新市鎮降低房價他可以大幅的減少我們車禍的傷亡他可以快捷的讓我們市民便利的交通這麼多優點就算捷運碰到問題關我們台北市我記得我上次跟你提過我們台北市關南環北環東環就差了440億一直苦無知今的"},{"start":14060.632,"end":14082.445,"text":"委員其實捷運是一個有現金流量固定現金流量是好的標的對啊主委連這個有現金流量的這些財團連甩都不甩你看看啊去年受選的那個資金啊受選有3兆可以來投資公共建設的他去年投資118億天啊"},{"start":14086.287,"end":14112.364,"text":"三兆的尾數的尾數公共建設再拖延的話會增加社會成本對社會成本的增加對社會的傷害非常的大所以我認為一定比例你們要那個部長那你認為一定比例是多少委員這一定比例這個部分可能事後我們會再討論當然跟委員報告就是剛剛您提的捷運其實它是一個非常好的一個公共建設的項目"},{"start":14113.208,"end":14132.577,"text":"是可以引進民間資金來做儲餐的模式是來可以做的是好不好你們積極規劃嘛現在不只台北市的捷運新北市、台中、高雄這是未來社會應該走的未來交通也是建設的大的路線那個記得公共建設"},{"start":14133.817,"end":14153.052,"text":"晚一天社會成本就增加。一天不是這樣嗎?其實我今天主題要跟你們談的還沒談到耶。那個我脾氣一來齁,抱歉齁,你查一下齁,那個主席我再叮嚀一句就好,你查一下我剛剛說的你們要找中信"},{"start":14154.133,"end":14155.034,"text":"週三我們會有專題報告週三我們會有專題報告"},{"start":14178.829,"end":14183.771,"text":"謝謝委員指導謝謝王世堅委員的質詢緊接著我們請牛許廷委員質詢好謝謝主席這個金管會內政部跟國防會有請有請黃主委有請花翅有請高副主委牛委員好"},{"start":14203.562,"end":14227.388,"text":"午安,辛苦了今天我想排這個專案報告的理由當然就是希望說借用民間的力量去降低政府在興建社會住宅的財政負擔那幾個問題跟幾位來做討論第一個是根據金管會的報告我們當然講說最直觀的方法就是授信也就是用貸款的方式讓資金可以流動但目前看起來這個政府在興建或購不是政府啦"},{"start":14227.568,"end":14242.421,"text":"本國銀行在對興建或購置社會住宅的放款大概就600多億啦那按照內政部的規劃嘛你如果要完成25萬戶的政策目標其實你要一兆左右的金流這距離還差蠻遠的有沒有什麼政策方法或者是什麼樣的方式可以拉高這個放款的數字"},{"start":14243.414,"end":14271.301,"text":"委員不曉得我的數字是不是不對我們這邊如果加起來是6300億包括都公委老、社宅對啊我現在只講社宅我關注的是社宅而已啊對因為政策目標是25萬戶的社宅但是其他銀行的AMC也有做一些投資啦AMC的融資對啊那你們有沒有辦法達到1兆元這樣的目標嗎因為我就是25萬戶的社宅這個是要配合內政部的規劃內政部要不要說明一下你們現在彼此之間的溝通模式是什麼"},{"start":14272.025,"end":14300.925,"text":"發言委員其實這個依照的資金需求可能是未來10到15年之間的總需求那是蓋房子的這個費用對那目前為止你們有多大的把握可以按照政策目標去完成這25萬戶的目標實質上這個目標20萬戶到今年底基本上是沒有問題啦你講依照興建25萬戶啦你這樣加包屋貸款這是另外一回事嘛未來8年完成絕標嘛那後面大概還要再加3到4年興建完成嘛我今天"},{"start":14302.066,"end":14317.705,"text":"講這個題目是在幫內政部講話嗎?因為讓融資的管道更寬其實你是比較好完成政策目標的當然現在我們是用融資的方式在做以現在的融資的水位跟數量內政部是滿意的嗎?還是需要政策手段來更加強?"},{"start":14318.246,"end":14346.376,"text":"其實現在的融資是沒有問題啦當然如果說改成發債利率可以再低一些啦執行成本可以再降那當然對整個社宅財務會有幫助但是因為我們現在發債的這個部分還要再跟發債我們等一下討論齁其實不外乎籌資的幾種管道嘛一個是融資嘛另外一個就是大家報告裡面也講的就是所謂的促餐啦但實務上這我們因為時間有限我們也不花時間多討論促餐的難度很高嘛因為我們當然希望社宅的租金是低廉的嘛"},{"start":14346.716,"end":14373.461,"text":"社宅租金第一年才有辦法完成政策目標租金可是租金第一年當然影響自償率影響自償率的時候就會影響這個公共投資用促餐的方式來投資的這樣子的一個意願所以就變成說最後常常是什麼附屬單位比主體單位還大然後衍生出一大堆的糾紛這本席完全理解所以說我們討論一下促餐以外的方式也就是剛剛花次長講的發行債券的這個部分我覺得這部分非常有興趣因為現在ESG其實是顯學嘛對不對我們不要講什麼台灣價值啦"},{"start":14374.801,"end":14390.958,"text":"但每個企業都一定要ESG價值我想是大家都不會反對這件事情那麼現在規劃發展永續發展債券比如說裡面的社會責任債券這樣的東西有沒有具體的時間表還有大家的額度大概是多少兩個度嘛進度跟額度嘛大概是多少現在都還沒有因為都還在"},{"start":14392.179,"end":14392.439,"text":"什麼時候會有一個相對明確的時間表?"},{"start":14413.185,"end":14436.011,"text":"欸現在我現在也沒辦法明確的回答但是我們會跟今晚會跟財政部再來研究一下好啦這個本期是希望要既然要談這樣的事情我們就希望都排了報告我們其實是希望明確的嘛因為這個是有助於這個政策推動的嘛這我想喔用新的方式來推動這個進度有兩個本期最後一點時間做一個政策建議除了政府去發行社會責任債券或永續發展債券然後導引"},{"start":14436.551,"end":14437.192,"text":"我舉一個正面典型啊"},{"start":14455.555,"end":14479.826,"text":"本期的選區龜山,台樹集團在龜山有非常多的土地人家在長庚醫院興建的時候他就有一個長庚醫護新村是他們的員工宿舍也就是我政府自己花錢去興建解決這個員工住宿的問題只要你在他的這個企業上班相對來講你就享有便宜的租金他一方面提供了很好的員工福利一方面也解決了居住的問題還降低了城市的環境負擔這種模式其實應該被大家鼓勵"},{"start":14480.586,"end":14497.219,"text":"但我們現在看到政府除了你政府有自主性的做這件事我們說正面典型拍拍手可是我們的政府有沒有從這中間的過程去做借鏡然後比如說我用政策手段不管是獎勵性的手段或者是強迫性義務性的手段去要求其他民間企業比照辦理目前有沒有這樣的規劃或打算"},{"start":14499.232,"end":14518.864,"text":"我們住宅法有獎勵民間新辦社會住宅的條文那我們現在正在重新檢討怎麼樣讓它比較能夠可行落實本期的建議就是說跟企業下手因為很多企業要投資比如台積電要來設廠對不對你是不是可以通過都市計畫等等的手段去要求說我要員工宿舍的配套"},{"start":14519.484,"end":14541.264,"text":"這就是用政策的方式去建立這個事情一次就解決所有的問題所以本期希望除了你加緊速度去發行你的永續發展債券之外也要同步使用政策的工具鼓勵民間企業去興辦員工宿舍就用這樣的方式既符合了員工的福利又解決了居住的問題我想這是非常具有ESG精神的一個做法"},{"start":14541.624,"end":14551.776,"text":"所以我希望內政部可以今天沒有時間表我本身是有點遺憾啦我希望喔下一次在大家追蹤這個問題的時候可以更明確可以嗎好謝謝委員好各位辛苦了謝謝謝謝牛許廷委員的諮詢請接我們請林楚英委員的諮詢"},{"start":14564.217,"end":14574.883,"text":"謝謝主席,主席有請金管會黃竹瑞保險局司局長然後財政部莊部長還有我們國庫署的陳署長"},{"start":14576.78,"end":14596.295,"text":"黃主委不好意思因為時間有限了現在只有5分鐘所以我就一起先請上來我想這個有關於今天報紙的頭條的部分這個我就不多言但是我希望就是在這裡主委可以有一個明確的宣誓因為本席過去其實曾經也是財委會出來乍到的委員"},{"start":14597.856,"end":14608.244,"text":"但是從來是不會要求金管單位去幫我約業者來吃飯我們認識業者一定都是在選民服務或者是一些公協會的活動場上那麼我認為其實這樣的做法有時候好心會壞事因為畢竟金融高度監理那未來這些業者們"},{"start":14616.89,"end":14645.448,"text":"是不是說變成是跟這些委員吃飯了背後就有靠山又或者是說在接受其他陳情的時候變成是認為說委員是靠山會高高級級輕輕落下之外那麼未來金融監理沒有被邀請或沒有來的也會擔憂說我會不會被秋後算賬那麼接下來這些財閥是不是都有其幕後的原因會影響到金管會的公正性所以我認為如果真的如郭昭偉所說的接下來還有所謂的金扣"},{"start":14645.948,"end":14646.088,"text":"各位"},{"start":14660.339,"end":14688.17,"text":"我想都是召委那召委對我們的指示那當然我們覺得今天這個事情大家有很多不同的意見我想我剛才也跟其他委員報告過我們在處理上會更周圍好因為我覺得這個有的時候呢真的會造成更多不必要的想像跟聯想那麼其實對於立法院的委員們問政或者是對於金管會都不是一件好事接下來我要詢問的是剛剛我在國防委員會也特別提到的"},{"start":14688.65,"end":14707.101,"text":"就是我不知道保險局是不是知道這個憲兵聯勤人員跟特勤人員他們的意外團保經過了4次流標現在都還標不出去那麼我要特別提醒的是人數沒有增加投保人數沒有增加但是呢從2020年到現在也沒有出現"},{"start":14708.041,"end":14732.982,"text":"但是現在兩家民營業者過去曾經連續4年的旺旺流言他不標了變成星光產物依舊流標那麼我想請問就是保險局國防部這裡相關的單位有沒有人來跟你們接洽因為我只想講公股、航庫其實也有相關的這種保險公司那麼如果說民營機構不願意保"},{"start":14733.322,"end":14744.792,"text":"他們認為現在這個生意不能做那麼有沒有可能來做一個協助因為包括莊部長也在這裡國庫署也在這裡我們有台產、有第一產、兆豐產、華南產還有第一售、台銀售、核庫售那麼難道現在是公股、航庫認為國家要打仗嗎所以說不能幫我們憲兵聯勤人員來投保以免"},{"start":14759.664,"end":14775.274,"text":"這個會入不敷出是這樣嗎兩個問題第一個請問保險局這邊有沒有收到國防部相關的請求跟協助包委員我們沒有收到沒有收到所以你們不了解那麼現在我質詢之後我們可不可以了解一下因為我想局長您專業啦人數不變"},{"start":14778.075,"end":14798.603,"text":"然後也都沒有出現過但是現在竟然有兩家業者不願意來標留標之後標金就會拉高決標這個所謂的整體的這個所謂決標的金額當中他包括他的投標金額就會拉高啊這過程當中就起人一鬥囉"},{"start":14800.744,"end":14814.925,"text":"那麼這個到底是怎麼回事從1320塊每人保險費變成5300塊海流標我想請問的是保險局可以協助嗎包括庄部長宮古航空可不可以進來有角色"},{"start":14816.957,"end":14817.318,"text":"委員報告"},{"start":14846.917,"end":14872.457,"text":"所以現在會變成是我們憲兵特勤人員相關的保險團保保不出去那麼如果說現在是像部長您所說的莊部長所說的他們以運製組所以這個不算是挺國家不算政策供股行兩手一攤那我們如何要求民間的業者一起來投保那問題出在哪裡來這個施局長你專業所以這真的是因為"},{"start":14873.858,"end":14901.574,"text":"國家現在不安全所以憲兵特勤人員的團保沒有人敢接就連公股、航庫也說我有我自己的營業需求你認為這個該怎麼辦?報委員 這個案子應該已經絕標了啦就是這一次是星光產物的371那我了解的結果是說原來的公司呢他們去洽債保的時候因為我們這兩年來債保公司的債保成本是墊高了"},{"start":14902.134,"end":14918.481,"text":"所以他那個金額可能超過星光產的部分那所以後來是星光產物拿到這個標案好本席的質詢只是希望說像這種相關的尤其是對於國家來說還是有其必要性跟政策性的部分"},{"start":14919.842,"end":14935.844,"text":"當然因為現在本席到了國防外交委員會關心的議題會可能比較跟過去不一樣但是我自己認為橫向的聯繫或者是溝通如果必要的時候還是希望金管會財政部這裡可以多給予一點政策上面的協助跟幫忙"},{"start":14936.795,"end":14958.536,"text":"是,我們會找委員如果有什麼議題可以請我們來研究,謝謝好,謝謝好,謝謝林總理委員的質詢請接著我們請鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在接著我們請侯孟凱委員侯孟凱委員侯孟凱委員侯孟凱委員不在接著我們請羅志強委員羅志強委員羅志強委員羅志強委員不在接著我們請張其凱委員"},{"start":14979.005,"end":14986.951,"text":"我先請教一下蔡總統繼離卸任只剩下50天如果照最新的統計他任內要完成12萬戶的社會住宅是否確定已經變成空談已經跳票了"},{"start":15008.24,"end":15032.51,"text":"報告委員社會住宅的興邦目標是以今年年底為目標20萬戶是以今年為目標看得清楚喔蔡總統是她競選的時候跟工業進來備你要達到10萬戶的社會住宅不是嗎所有的政見一定會轉換成政策嘛政策一定是行政院核定的才叫做最後的政策嘛那當然那個政策核定下來就是從2016到2024發社長發社長"},{"start":15036.691,"end":15058.22,"text":"我給你看一下賴清德的講法賴清德講的是五二零報告即使即使到五二零其實他的達標都會在八成五以上你看賴清德的講法在看你的賴清德有沒有打臉你的臉來看一下即使賴清德去大學金融部長的話賴清德講的話來我知道啦我知道這個事你不要打臉賴清德喔來來看一下"},{"start":15074.738,"end":15079.686,"text":"時間請暫停,影片停了是吧,時間暫停一下時間請暫停那影音上好像沒有聲音,看字幕應該可以吧"},{"start":15089.645,"end":15090.946,"text":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會"},{"start":15119.246,"end":15146.893,"text":"他這樣講嗎?賴清德什麼時候講過說他講的話不精準?不是啦,我覺得您不要用這樣的方式,我跟您報告一次我們報行政院的計畫也多次對外面清楚表達就是到今年底,我們在多次對外面清楚表達賴清德講的是520,現在內政部次長講的是年底好,我們就保留這個,到底是賴清德打年底,讓外界去做評斷金融部門來看下一張圖"},{"start":15152.116,"end":15154.505,"text":"禁賣社會住宅到今天為止"},{"start":15156.414,"end":15185.53,"text":"市長,您到底起多少啊?到上個月底是9萬6嘛9萬6對不對?你現在等50天,好啦,讓你說到年底好了你真的有辦法完成12萬戶嗎?我們正在努力當中,各位報告齁我們每年都在增加,去年中央加地方一共決標了2萬4千戶所以說我們其實每年都在不斷的精進所以當然我們都在努力我覺得這個努力是值得大家支持的"},{"start":15186.05,"end":15208.852,"text":"市長這個叫做接力賽現在清德提出他的政見是什麼樣他說之前蔡英文12萬戶他要13萬戶這叫做接力賽對不對這看起來蔡英文已經跳票已經落拍了阿沒有跳票沒有跳票來來我給你看這個趨勢圖你看你目前是達到9萬多對不對就是綠色的那個時限你如果依照這個目標這樣上去"},{"start":15210.728,"end":15218.751,"text":"明明就答不到啊,除非你像未來的這50天或者到年底你要像個沖天砲這樣衝上去,可能嗎?你這個圖上7萬一直上去到照這樣最新的一個資料,就是到了9萬多不是嗎?"},{"start":15238.038,"end":15238.518,"text":"現在幾月了?"},{"start":15257.93,"end":15286.19,"text":"今天愚人節4月1日你給他等幾個月?你等8個月你想要賺多少錢?蔡英文講的跟戴慶德講的明明是到520我想不需要用這種方式啦你這樣的方式就是誤導啦你這樣講在誤導啦你終究在拗那8個月你還是達不到這個好那你下金融狀我即使沒有達到我的達標率會在95%以上如果年底年底你達不到蔡英文講的社宅百萬戶你要怎麼辦?報告委員即使沒有達到也會在95%以上"},{"start":15288.069,"end":15299.316,"text":"那95不是跳票嗎?你當初開支票為什麼叫開?其實政府施政95是高標不是跳票95是高標不是跳票我想當年有一位市長說五萬戶他最後做不到兩萬戶那他說他很厲害我覺得不應該這樣子"},{"start":15313.405,"end":15314.286,"text":"時間到了剛剛那個年輕的女學生問了"},{"start":15342.088,"end":15358.024,"text":"耐清的在台南蓋的多少社會住宅請問目前台南市已經完工的社會住宅有幾戶有幾戶市長目前台南市完整的社會住宅有幾戶200多戶完工的是200多戶"},{"start":15363.071,"end":15386.815,"text":"臺南現在已經直接執行了超過8000會臺南本來的目標是DNA好,是,是,謝謝委員好啦,要加油啦,市長我們每個人都很努力我們期待有看到好希望委員多支持喔不要,不要需要要票來票啦大家這麼認真,請你不要任意的跟我們不要票你講不要口水,不要用這種硬背的好不好請贈送國會好不好"},{"start":15389.415,"end":15390.456,"text":"好,我們請金管會黃主委有請黃主委"},{"start":15420.424,"end":15434.757,"text":"主委好,辛苦你了今天我還是繼續的要來詢問你有關這個壯世代金融行動方案上次在3月19號的財政個人總諮詢當中有請陳院長跟黃朱維當面有"},{"start":15443.684,"end":15468.621,"text":"這個責成金管會應要建立壯士代金融行動方案諸位是不是有這件事情有那天是在總質詢的時候是是所以諸位有答應嘛不是我那天是院長我沒有資格院長有責成禮嘛應嘛還不是得應建立是不是會議記錄有這個字對有會議記錄好謝謝"},{"start":15473.364,"end":15498.156,"text":"當時有提到應該比照綠色金融的政策來建立高齡社會的金融戰略主要提出兩個訴求是壯世代的金融行動方案還有上市櫃公司的高齡社會永續發展的路徑金管會在這幾年綠色金融整個的體系建立得非常完整所以經驗"},{"start":15499.457,"end":15527.376,"text":"非常豐富那整個的是從106年開始其實包括從法制的建立然後成立組織委員會包括方案路徑都有很完整的經驗是不是所以呢對於這個金融這個高齡社會來臨事實上金管會如果有看到這一個人口的大變遷大變化"},{"start":15529.741,"end":15529.903,"text":"這一刻"},{"start":15534.086,"end":15551.532,"text":"下一頁就是主委在上次我們有討論過這一個就是上面的主委院長都有看到我們的人口是邁向2040年明年台灣進入超高齡社會2040年的人口結構長這個樣子這一個年齡的中位數是52.4歲65歲以上的人占人口的30%但是我們現在"},{"start":15560.976,"end":15571.302,"text":"行政包括各部會都停留在1970年代用那樣的思維在定我們的高齡政策當時的年齡中位數是19.3歲65歲上的人占人口的2.9%"},{"start":15576.244,"end":15595,"text":"天翻地覆查家賊但是我真的發現我們所有的部門、部會都停留在1970年用那樣的思維在定整個國家這樣會被拖垮啦所以我現在努力的說服包括院長啦、部長啦大家都表示系各部會當中"},{"start":15597.662,"end":15621.577,"text":"但是問題沒有把這樣的傳達到下一個因為我知道這個主委這個回去以後有交代的確他們也有回應但是呢底下這個上禮拜我也到那個櫃買中心然後交易所然後我們金管會副主委主持出席他們說哎喲喲我們主委都有交代我們在做但是我發現他們所提的"},{"start":15622.478,"end":15642.978,"text":"都還是引法思維的做法所以事實上沒有真正的深入就像你要做綠色金融一樣高齡金融要像挖油井一樣挖挖挖就是你真的挖進去你就會有冒出來的很多的寶礦"},{"start":15646.121,"end":15664.615,"text":"所以這個經驗其實你非常的豐富的啦高齡金融的戰略壯世代金融行動方案為什麼要稱壯世代因為現在都叫銀髮族啦如果銀髮族就只是衛福部的事情大家都去找衛福部就好了但是如果到壯世代的話就是各部會所以接下來下一頁"},{"start":15665.996,"end":15682.324,"text":"提出這個對金管會的承諾是不是這個主委這有兩點成立高齡金融的專責小組整合金管會相關單位把這個責任扛起來這一點可不可以這個"},{"start":15683.14,"end":15696.74,"text":"有委員那個我們其實內部已經在彙整大家的意見那外部部分我記得那天院長說有的是牽涉到尤其是上市櫃公司永續跨部會尤其是衛福部勞動部這些單位這可能是不是要那時候好像說國發會會來彙整"},{"start":15698.842,"end":15698.962,"text":"有國發會來負責嗎?"},{"start":15715.148,"end":15740.414,"text":"第二點就是加強外部專業單位的溝通這一點我還是講就是說不能閉門遭拒後來我發現他們因為他沒有這種觀念底下沒有這種觀念所以他們做的都還是引法政策的東西所以可以請他們的專案小組多外部比如說跟壯賽來溝通都要溝通來定政策會比較適用這一定會跟外面溝通的好 謝謝"},{"start":15742.435,"end":15761.872,"text":"好,謝謝吳順成委員的質詢,接著尤賀委員、尤賀委員、尤賀委員、尤賀委員不在鄭志賢委員、鄭志賢委員、鄭志賢委員、鄭志賢委員、鄭志賢委員不在徐慶榮委員、徐慶榮委員、徐慶榮委員、徐慶榮委員不在蘇慶榮委員、蘇慶榮委員、蘇慶榮委員不在張家俊、張家俊、張家俊、張家俊委員不在何欣淳、何欣淳、何欣淳、何欣淳委員不在李柏毅、李柏毅、李柏毅、李柏�"},{"start":15775.644,"end":15776.525,"text":"財政收支劃分法"},{"start":15793.144,"end":15822.204,"text":"這個是賴清德準總統在2018年擔任行政院長的承諾承諾說要修財政收支劃分法那到今天為止到今天為止持續的跳票上次請教部長的時候部長說因為縣市政府對於要怎麼分這件事情大家有很多意見我上次就已經把問題給點出來了就是我們一件事情一件事情具體的談"},{"start":15823.424,"end":15838.454,"text":"我們先處理垂直分配不均的問題因為過去這20幾年財政收支劃分法最大的詬病是什麼最大的詬病就是錢跟權都在中央手上"},{"start":15839.395,"end":15853.319,"text":"地方政府苦哈哈地方政府苦哈哈我們如果以2022年以2022年我們整個財稅分的狀況來看的話中央稅大概收了88%"},{"start":15855.06,"end":15877.558,"text":"地方稅大概收了12%所以過去這些批評這些現象絕對是有數字當作支撐的在部長之前所講的財政部目前還持續的在演繹當中我要請教部長的事情是你們現在目前針對擴大統籌分配款的規模你們規劃的具體的方向是什麼"},{"start":15879.436,"end":15898.287,"text":"跟委員報告您提的擴大這個部分因為也先跟委員報告其實我們先問過地方政府的意見在分配指標上那資料也給了委員這邊您知道各個地方政府所表達的意見都相當的分歧這個部分我們會找對不起 這不是我的問題請你針對問題回答您剛剛提到就是說就是所謂的擴大這個統籌分配稅款的規模的部分當然這個是一個方向也會朝著這個方向去做處理"},{"start":15908.413,"end":15930.427,"text":"那至於這個怎麼樣去計算的話會跟下面的分配是會很有關係的所以到現在連基本的原則都沒有出來基本的原則基本上我們講了6個原則裡面當然有提到會保障既有的財源好來我不跟你講空的全部都要打太極拳一點意義都沒有目前中央統籌分配款的來源所得稅10%營業稅40%"},{"start":15934.857,"end":15959.154,"text":"貨物稅10%土地徵稅20%是給縣的這個部長應該很清楚嘛過去從陳水扁政府時期的政院版到馬英九政府的政院版到民進黨在野的時候所提出的黨團版我把它全部整理完了我整理完以後我歸納發現一個現象第一個不同的政黨"},{"start":15963.925,"end":15979.611,"text":"不同主政的時期但是大家都有一個共識這一個共識是營業稅百分之百燕酒稅百分之八十以最少最少這兩個部分要納入中央統籌分配款部長贊不贊成"},{"start":15982.069,"end":16002.021,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告因為整個部分都必須要再做試算當然各個版本有各個時期的狀況你上次不是答應我回去試算嗎對我不是答應上次跟委員說我們一個月以內會提資料給委員所以到現在都還沒有算出來嗎這個部分我們會把各個版本的部分的沒有這麼複雜啦真的沒有這麼複雜來我秀給部長看"},{"start":16008.534,"end":16026.603,"text":"我以2022年現在我財稅資料可以收得到的我以2022年中央統籌分配款目前的版本跟相對而言馬英九的時候的政院版馬英九政院版我跟部長報告相對而言是比較保守"},{"start":16027.643,"end":16049.337,"text":"相對而言是比較保守所以比較保守就是從中央那邊要求過來的錢還比較少你如果看一下民進黨在野的時候修正馬英九的版本他所提出來的是什麼他所提出來的雖然是統籌分配管跟補助管全部合在一起但是他的規模到哪裡所得稅20%"},{"start":16051.838,"end":16075.428,"text":"多一個直轄市多10%貨物稅10%營業稅一樣剛剛有共識的部分100%跟燕酒稅81%相對而言馬英九的版本他們那個時候執政的版本相對而言所得稅稍微少一點6%但是因為他的補助款放債補助款所得稅還有10%好按照這個數字"},{"start":16078.973,"end":16106.869,"text":"我大概用2022年我們的財稅資料的數字來試算我就先不要用民進黨在野的時期理想性比較高的版本來試算我要馬英九執政的時候比較保守的來試算試算出來的結果差多少試算出來的結果就差3000億就差3000億這3000億對於地方政府在託分地方自治"},{"start":16108.103,"end":16129.324,"text":"有多麼高的重要性我今天利用這個質詢我開始針對垂直分配的問題請教財政部意見是給你們表達意見的機會因為我們不會等著你們拖我們不會等著你們拖不是等到你行政會有版本我們才要拖動修正不是這個樣子"},{"start":16131.549,"end":16160.071,"text":"現在大家都在擬條文準備要送到財政委員會來我利用質詢的時間請教部長意見是給你表達意見的機會但是你們似乎是不敢面對跳票的事實我每次請你表達意見全部都在打太極拳我現在先不處理水平分配的問題垂直分配的問題我把過去幾年的版本全部列出來共識很高啊"},{"start":16161.345,"end":16172.56,"text":"最起碼營業稅百分之百啊貨物稅百分之八十一啊沒有人反對啊每一個版本都是這個樣子啊我們以這個版本來當作地板部長 贊不贊成"},{"start":16174.572,"end":16196.392,"text":"委員我想這個部分您看這麼多版本共識很好但是為什麼還是立法沒有通過也就是說其實是意見還是相當分歧所以繼續推給地方政府嗎在隨時分配的時候還是推給地方政府嗎你是不是問哪一個地方政府啊說我要擴大統籌分配管的規模會有地方政府反對不可能啊"},{"start":16197.193,"end":16219.831,"text":"部長你還是趕快把書面資料給那個...不可能啊!我是利用質詢的時間給你表達意見的機會啊!我們如果真的要訂的話我就按照民進黨當初這麼有理想性的版本啊挖這麼大塊!所得算20%欸!增加一個還要再多什麼?還要再多10%欸!按照這個版本去訂現在的民進黨政府會接受嗎?"},{"start":16221.713,"end":16237.167,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝洪國昌委員的質詢,請接著我們請楊瓊玉委員、姚瓊玉委員、姚瓊玉委員不在、蔡易維、蔡易菊、蔡易維委員、蔡易維委員不在、鍾佳冰、鍾佳冰、鍾佳冰委員不在。好,今天登記率發言的委員均已詢答完畢,現在處理臨時提案、共舞案,請議事人員宣讀。"},{"start":16240.889,"end":16267.517,"text":"臨時提案案由依有鑒於行政院規劃未來8年新建25萬戶社會住宅預估至少需要1兆元融資金額將發行永續發展債券以降低融資利息及財務負擔原提案要求內政部及國家住宅及都市更新中心針對發行永續發展債券案提出擬發行金額"},{"start":16269.296,"end":16297.421,"text":"銷售對象政府承擔風險及可能隨通貨膨脹縮水等問題於1個月內提報立法院財政委員會是否有當競請公決提案人賴世保、林德福、李燕秀案由2有鑒於煙害防治法於112年起全面禁止電子煙、納管加熱煙與載具以有效防治煙害"},{"start":16299.216,"end":16300.427,"text":"維護國民健康然上述"},{"start":16301.85,"end":16330.756,"text":"違禁產品仍在國內市場串流違規使用因要求政府確實執法、遵守違法來源原提案要求財政部國庫署加強違禁菸品茶器以防止逃漏稅捐茶器成果及因應檢討經濟措施於一個月內提報立法院財政委員會是否有當敬請公決提案仍賴世保林德甫李燕秀案由3"},{"start":16332.335,"end":16356.445,"text":"有鑒於自由貿易港區長期儲存電子煙、加熱煙原件情形目的不明。衛福部證實目前自為禁品,嫌以違反自由貿易港區設置管理條例,為有效管理避免各部會互踢皮球,因予追查儲存目的用途。原提案要求財政部召集交通部、衛福部、"},{"start":16357.845,"end":16382.08,"text":"針對電子煙、加熱煙及載具等項全面清查目前儲存於自由貿易港區保稅倉庫數量目的用途及相關後續措施因應處理方式如有數量不符應追究相關責任於一個月內提報立法院財政委員會是否有當敬請公決提案人賴世保、林德福、李燕秀"},{"start":16383.643,"end":16393.032,"text":"按由示基本工資已連8年調漲時薪預額120元調至183元條幅達52.5%又近期電價調漲CPI年增率衝破3%各項物價及營運成本高漲為公益彩券經銷商銷售佣金仍僅佔公益彩券票面金額之8%"},{"start":16410.214,"end":16436.661,"text":"繼於公益彩券發行條例旨在照顧身心障礙者、原住民及低收入單親家庭等為優先。原提案要求財政部檢討經銷商銷售佣金分配比例並研擬依物價指數聯動條款,作為未來調整給付之依據。提案人羅明才、林德福、賴世保案由5"},{"start":16437.833,"end":16455.144,"text":"面對目前社會住宅新建經費不足以目前規模難以達成8年百萬社宅之政策目標提案要求國發會邀請金管會、財政部、內政部組成專案小組研議透過增加"},{"start":16456.656,"end":16471.143,"text":"祝參同理以鼓勵受險業資金回流台灣．並投資社會住宅等公共建設．並於2個月內提出研議之書面報告提案人郭國文、連署人李坤成、武力華宣讀完畢"},{"start":16515.018,"end":16516.84,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16529.898,"end":16531.22,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16543.695,"end":16548.561,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16564.411,"end":16593.729,"text":"響鐘響鐘響鐘響鐘"},{"start":16619.352,"end":16621.895,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16628.161,"end":16628.906,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16633.831,"end":16656.305,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16668.266,"end":16682.032,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16707.12,"end":16707.18,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16723.758,"end":16736.164,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16742.568,"end":16771.561,"text":"響鐘響鐘響鐘"},{"start":16778.849,"end":16783.416,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16793.281,"end":16795.042,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16815.991,"end":16824.398,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16833.644,"end":16851.276,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16853.437,"end":16876.483,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16882.489,"end":16893.984,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16898.488,"end":16912.117,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16930.13,"end":16930.43,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16940.029,"end":16940.37,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":16961.181,"end":16977.93,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":17008.661,"end":17009.081,"text":"好,我們繼續開會"},{"start":17019.599,"end":17032.206,"text":"提案人是賴世保賴委員相關部會有沒有什麼樣的意見?有沒有跟委員溝通?修改?"},{"start":17032.206,"end":17036.529,"text":"提案提案的部分?"},{"start":17036.529,"end":17036.809,"text":"溝通好了嗎?"},{"start":17041.277,"end":17044.582,"text":"那個花次你要不要上來主席來講一下表達一下溝通那個要記錄對"},{"start":17059.629,"end":17076.865,"text":"本院委員賴思寶等有建議行政院規劃未來8年新增25萬戶社會住宅預估至少需以兆元融資金額將發行永續發展債券以降低融資利息及財務負擔"},{"start":17078.186,"end":17093.793,"text":"原提案要求財政部會統內政部及國家注入中心．針對發行永續發展債券案．提出擬發行金額銷售對象等相關問題．於2個月內提報立法院財政委員會．是否有當進請公決。"},{"start":17101.701,"end":17113.449,"text":"好,那我們修正通過,接著我們第二案還有加一個提案委員那個賴慧雲提案委員再一個賴慧雲委員來,第二案來,莊部長請"},{"start":17118.803,"end":17119.784,"text":"財政部．請"},{"start":17147.974,"end":17171.717,"text":"我們也是做一個文字的修正也就是在第二行的部分我們會在一個月內提書面報告與立法院財政委員會所以增加四個字以上的建議好 加四個字書面報告好 賴委員有沒有意見好 修正通過第四案提的 這個我們遵照辦理"},{"start":17172.794,"end":17173.034,"text":"徵召辦理委員 通過"},{"start":17191.583,"end":17211.695,"text":"本會議做如下的決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢及未答覆或補充資訊請相關部會於一周內以書面答覆委員另有要求期限者從其所定委員楊瓊英所提書面質詢委員牛許廷所提書面補充資料均列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會與書面答覆"},{"start":17214.256,"end":17225.099,"text":"本日會議議程已進行完畢．堂友不在場委員補題書面質詢．一併列入記錄、刊登公報．並請醫事人員協助處理休息"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}