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這個部分應該是損壞者要負賠償責任好 那具體的來請教5月17號民進黨立委吳秉瑞砸毀備群台的螢幕請問這個修繕花了多少錢這邊容我請那個可以找熟悉的人上來回答"},{"start":267.988,"end":276.998,"text":"報告委員 有關那個螢幕壞掉的部分的話是請廠商來維修目前沒有花錢就在保固就是維護裡面來執行就還在保固期間嗎對OK好第二個11月4號財政委員會他砸毀了整個麥克風啊又是吳秉瑞這個花了多少錢"},{"start":289.344,"end":308.554,"text":"報告委員因為我們有關麥克風都會做備品的一個備品那因為麥克風使用他是非常及時的所以當這個設備有損壞的時候我們馬上是用備品來做使用那雖然是備品備品不要錢嗎備品要錢所以要多少錢目前我們在"},{"start":315.137,"end":323.78,"text":"被品使用以後再去買被品大概花了14萬花了14萬嘛對阿花了14萬來請副秘書長誰應該要賠損壞者應該要負賠償責任那有跟損壞者求償嗎損壞者有賠嗎這個事情應該納稅人買單嗎這是我的問題目前還沒有進行這樣的一個求償程序阿有打算要進行求償的程序嗎還是就算了"},{"start":345.285,"end":369.122,"text":"報告委員因為這個好像在院會裡面有一個對針對著這一個案子有一個提案那可能我們會依照這個兩個事情齁院會的提案歸院會的提案嘛在侵權行為法裡面在刑法裡面毀損罪構成民事的侵權行為要負損害賠償責任這個是最基本的道理嘛"},{"start":370.393,"end":380.219,"text":"這是最基本的道理嘛這跟院會有沒有什麼樣的案子到底有什麼關係這是我的困惑這是我的困惑"},{"start":381.803,"end":381.963,"text":"副秘書長副秘書長"},{"start":409.369,"end":433.311,"text":"如果委員都有公司的話基本上我們有一個月的時間把它處理掉用一個月的時間把它處理掉嘛好我要問的第二個問題是我們現在立法院各個會議室沒有申請使用我們自己可以開門去用嗎不開放使用不開放使用那我如果就是自己開門進去用了會怎麼樣目前是沒有罰則"},{"start":434.318,"end":435.759,"text":"基本上是不開放時間不可以啦"},{"start":460.953,"end":484.776,"text":"那不可以但是我就是這樣子做了那現在打算要怎麼辦因為我們現在立法院的運作是要回到叢林法則嗎當然不是那所以這件事情你們有沒有什麼言議因為人家說啦說這是喇叭鎖阿沒有破壞阿用非常平和的手段阿就可以進來了那這個鎖要不要換阿"},{"start":486.098,"end":486.898,"text":"希望以後齁"},{"start":514.946,"end":542.216,"text":"不要再發生這樣的事情那最後一件事情這個是我要特別請你們回去研議的協商會議的會議紀錄是不是應該都應該上網看登公報是嗎從資訊公開的角度的話我們希望這個方式我跟副秘書長反映一下因為我常常會查立法紀錄我上次本委員會在處理"},{"start":545.681,"end":569.739,"text":"我去查我們第9屆國會接避者保護法黨團協商委員會協商的會議紀錄結果我上去找了立法院議事及公報資訊網我在上面完全找不到那找不到呢我就請教了一下我們的同仁我們的同仁說2020年2月之前如果黨團協商沒有結論不會把會議紀錄刊登公報"},{"start":573.442,"end":573.562,"text":"可以﹖"},{"start":597.062,"end":610.391,"text":"跟委員報告那有關協商的部分發言跟那個影音是由公報處來做處理那我們會錄音錄影還有做書面的記錄但是黨團協商的那個報告是應該由那個黨團的協商的沒有沒有我現在不是在講黨團協商的報告是整個會議的會議記錄"},{"start":620.418,"end":639.394,"text":"比如說主席宣布開會哪一個黨團的代表說了什麼話哪一個黨團的代表說了什麼話之後的2020年2月以後的都有2020年2月以前的沒有現在我的問題是說之前是沒有記錄所以沒有上網還是有記錄但是沒有上網"},{"start":640.899,"end":647.002,"text":"對 這個就是我的問題 有記錄但不上網的理由是什麼過去應該是沒有因為上網的那個是到後面才2002年才開始有這個記錄現在這個就是我的問題 可以不能請你們回去研議一下"},{"start":663.786,"end":688.002,"text":"我們如果手上沒有資料你說要同仁重新回去聽黨可能人力耗費過去這我可以理解但如果既然已經有了資料的話要不要考慮一下之前的資料立法的過程盡量讓他透明嘛那這樣子的話不管是立委或者是其他的公民大家要追蹤這整部法案"},{"start":690.25,"end":690.711,"text":"這部分我們會後來做研究"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":486,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（9時59分）開始以前先跟主席做一個會議詢問，我剛剛知道我們的秘書長因為身體不適，這個理由非常的正當，我絕對支持主席的裁示，只是我也希望我們委員會這邊能夠對秘書長表達關切，因為我覺得他這樣子真的太辛苦了。"],["主席：好，那我們就照……"],["黃委員國昌：我們現在是不是可以請副秘書長。"],["主席：副秘書長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：副秘書長好。我們今天處理有關於立法院的預算，針對立法院的預算，第一個問題是我們國會交流的事務，預算增加了2,500萬，你有發現嗎？預算為什麼需要增加2,500萬的這一件事情，是不是可以請負責國會交流的處，事後再給所有的委員一個比較詳盡的書面資料，因為我想你要多2,500萬，代表你要做很多新的事情，讓所有的委員都知道，這樣我們在審核預算的時候才有一個基準，一個禮拜之內會有困難嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：沒有問題。"],["黃委員國昌：那第二個事情就是說，因為我們立法院裡面，我們要去審人家的預算，我們自己的預算到底怎麼用這件事情，其實我們立法院自己要做表率，因為新的國會，台灣民眾黨當初所提出來的一個重要的訴求，就是我們經費的使用必須要透明，那這件事情當初不管是中國國民黨還是民主進步黨，他們的正、副院長的候選人到台灣民眾黨黨團來拜會的時候，他們也做出承諾了，因此我希望有關於國會交流事務的費用，如果是由本院其他的一些次級團體所申請的話，那院長或者是透過什麼樣的機制准的話，我覺得應該要有一個公開透明的機制，讓大家都可以看得到，這件事情會不會有困難？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：不會困難。"],["黃委員國昌：但是我必須要老實講，到目前為止，過去舊的國會到我們今天備詢為止，這個制度都沒有建立起來！這個制度都沒有建立起來！我當初2016到2020第一次當立法委員的時候，我曾經有要過這樣的資料，結果要這樣子的資料引發那個時候高層滿高的關切，但是我覺得這個事情，我們所有的公務支出正正當當，既然編在國家的預算裡面，納稅人所使用，那就應該讓全體納稅人都可以有一個機制，大家都可以看得到。那這個部分是不是再拜託副秘書長回去跟同仁研議，看什麼樣的時間點，這個制度可以把它做起來，譬如說今年顯然來不及了，那明年我們的預算開始執行的時候，這件事情是不是可以做到？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：報告委員，可以。"],["黃委員國昌：好。我接下來要問的是，立法委員在議場裡面有攻防，這難免啦！但問題是立法委員在攻防的時候毀損公物這件事情，這個錢到底應該要誰出啊？這個錢應該納稅人出嗎？請問副秘書長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員。這個部分應該是損壞者要負賠償責任。"],["黃委員國昌：好，那具體的來請教，5月17號民進黨立委吳秉叡砸毀備詢台的螢幕，請問這個修繕花了多少錢？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這邊容我請……"],["黃委員國昌：可以，找熟悉的人上來回答。"],["鄭處長輝彬：報告委員，有關那個螢幕壞掉的部分，是請廠商來維修，目前沒有花錢，就是在保固維護裡面來執行。"],["黃委員國昌：就還在保固期間？"],["鄭處長輝彬：對。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好。第二個，11月4號財政委員會，他砸毀了整個麥克風，又是吳秉叡，這個花了多少錢？"],["蘇處長顯星：報告委員，麥克風我們都會有備品，因為麥克風使用是非常即時的，所以當這個設備有損壞的時候，我們馬上是以備品來做使用。"],["黃委員國昌：雖然是備品，備品不要錢嗎？"],["蘇處長顯星：備品要錢……"],["黃委員國昌：所以要多少錢？"],["蘇處長顯星：目前我們備品使用以後再去買備品，大概花了14萬。"],["黃委員國昌：花了14萬？"],["蘇處長顯星：對。"],["黃委員國昌：請問副秘書長，誰應該要賠？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：損壞者應該要負賠償責任。"],["黃委員國昌：那有跟損壞者求償嗎？損壞者有賠嗎？這個事情應該納稅人買單嗎？這是我的問題。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：目前還沒有進行這樣一個求償程序。"],["黃委員國昌：有打算要進行求償的程序嗎？還是就算了？"],["蘇處長顯星：報告委員，因為好像院會裡面針對這一個案子有一個提案，可能我們會依照這個……"],["黃委員國昌：這是兩個事情，院會的提案歸院會的提案，在侵權行為法裡面、在刑法裡面，毀損罪構成民事的侵權行為，要負損害賠償責任，這個是最基本的道理嘛！這跟院會有沒有什麼樣的案子，到底有什麼關係？這是我的困惑，所以什麼時候要求償？"],["蘇處長顯星：報告委員，因為公報處負責的是把這個設備能夠提供給委員即時使用……"],["黃委員國昌：這個我了解，所以我才請教副秘書長。"],["蘇處長顯星：我會遵照院方的要求，如果有要求償我們會把這個報價給院方，院方做求償的時候是依據這個，而公報處是即時的提供麥克風。"],["黃委員國昌：副秘書長，這個事情要處理多久？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：如果委員都有共識的話，基本上，我們用一個月的時間把它處理掉。"],["黃委員國昌：用一個月的時間把它處理掉，好。","我要問的第二個問題是，現在立法院各個會議室沒有申請使用的話，我們自己可以開門去用嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：不開放使用。"],["黃委員國昌：我如果是自己開門進去用了會怎麼樣？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：目前是沒有罰則。"],["黃委員國昌：目前是沒有罰則，那針對這件事情，之前我們也跟院長反映過，我每次來這邊，在你們議事人員沒有來以前，其實我都站在外面等議事同仁來，議事同仁開了門以後我們才進來，那我自己可以把門打開進來嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上不開放的時間是不可以的。"],["黃委員國昌：不可以，但我就是這樣子做了，那現在打算要怎麼辦？我們現在立法院的運作是要回到叢林法則嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：當然不是。"],["黃委員國昌：所以這件事情你們有沒有什麼研議？因為人家說這是喇叭鎖，沒有破壞，用非常平和的手段就可以進來，那這個鎖要不要換啊？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：請委員看一下旁邊那個門，我們已經在旁邊裝了門栓的部分。"],["黃委員國昌：不是啊！你如果要從外面鎖的話，你裡面的門栓要怎麼做？總有一道門裡面沒有門栓嘛！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我們有一道門沒有，對，沒有錯，但那個有加兩個鎖。"],["黃委員國昌：所以沒有辦法用這樣子就直接進來了？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：沒有辦法。"],["黃委員國昌：每一個委員會的會議室都已經處理好了嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對，目前都處理好了。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好。希望以後不要再發生這樣的事情了。","最後一件事情，我想要特別請你們回去研議的，協商會議的會議紀錄是不是都應該上網刊登公報，是嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：從資訊公開的角度，我們希望是以這個方式。"],["黃委員國昌：我跟副秘書長反映一下，因為我常常會查立法紀錄，上次本委員會在處理揭弊者保護法的時候，我去查我們第9屆國會揭弊者保護法黨團協商、委員會協商的會議紀錄，我上去找了立法院議事暨公報資訊網，結果我在上面完全找不到，因為找不到，我就請教了一下我們的同仁，我們的同仁說，2020年2月之前，如果黨團協商沒有結論，不會把會議紀錄刊登公報，我現在只有一個問題，黨團協商雖然沒有結論，但是那個會議是有進行的，而且那個時候應該ivod都已經啟用了，所以是沒有做會議紀錄導致沒有辦法上網，還是有做會議紀錄但是決定不要上網？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個我們請公報處說明。"],["黃委員國昌：可以。"],["蘇處長顯星：跟委員報告，有關協商的部分，發言跟影音是由公報處來做處理，我們會錄音、錄影還有做書面的紀錄，但是黨團協商的報告應該是由那個黨團協商的……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有、沒有、沒有，我現在不是在講黨團協商的報告，而是整個會議的會議紀錄，譬如說主席宣布開會、哪一個黨團的代表說了什麼話等等，2020年2月以後的都有，2020年2月以前的沒有，現在我的問題是，之前是沒有紀錄所以沒有上網？還是有紀錄但是沒有上網？"],["蘇處長顯星：紀錄我們有，但是那時候沒有上網。"],["黃委員國昌：對，這個就是我的問題，有紀錄但不上網的理由是什麼？"],["蘇處長顯星：過去應該是沒有，因為上網是到後面2020年後才開始有這個機制。"],["黃委員國昌：現在這個就是我的問題，可不可以請你們回去研議一下，我們如果手上沒有資料，你說要同仁重新回去聽打，可能人力耗費過鉅，這我可以理解，但既然已經有資料的話，要不要考慮一下，之前的資料、立法的過程，儘量讓它透明，這樣子的話，不管是立委或者是其他的公民，大家要追蹤這整部法案，到底是發生了什麼樣的事情、誰做過什麼樣的主張或者是發言，才會有跡可循，這應該沒有很困難吧！副秘書長，可不可以承諾回去研究一下，如果有紀錄的話，看用什麼樣子的方式逐步把它公開，好不好？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：好，這個部分我們會後來做研究。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員。下一位我們請沈發惠委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}