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碰不得啊 要跟人家就不一樣啊更好笑的是竟然王逸川可以成為民進黨衝關一路拼戒嚴肯定戒嚴的一個理由搞到半天竟然是支持尹錫悅戒嚴肯定尹錫悅戒嚴為了自由新人體制竟然是為了王逸川你民進黨不要笑死人好不好"},{"start":466.172,"end":489.566,"text":"再下一個我也要跟民主組長講謝謝你剛剛回答很清楚不要讓這些抹黑黨在那邊亂抹黑像剛剛拿出鐵證來打臉他們一個禮拜時間什麼叫刁難別人一個禮拜不叫刁難你一個禮拜叫刁難莫名其妙的民進黨再下一個我就要問也是跟您有關跟國會有關這跟國會的安全跟尊嚴有關的問題"},{"start":495.427,"end":523.79,"text":"當然我們萬萬不期待南韓的情況在台灣發生但是呢如果今天我們總統真的跟尹錫悅一樣賴清德跟尹錫悅一樣宣布戒嚴那如果還動用軍隊來攻佔國會逮捕國會議員我想請問這種情形發生的話在法制上在現況上立法院如何因應"},{"start":525.868,"end":541.743,"text":"基本上 憲法上國會有家宅權 那我們有家宅權的當然有一些防禦的一個配置面對是國軍 軍隊 武裝部隊 你的防禦 有辦法防禦嗎還有一個問題喔 能防禦嗎"},{"start":549.606,"end":570.918,"text":"總統下令軍隊來打國會﹖國會就算說今天有國會的駐衛警﹖國會的駐衛警能夠去跟軍隊﹖不要講能力啦﹖我講說法制上他能夠防禦嗎﹖還是大門一開就讓軍隊進來﹖實質上這個是勢力非常懸殊﹖第二個部分就法制層面來看﹖不應該有這種情況發生﹖在南韓也不應該這種情況發生﹖南韓是民主國家﹖"},{"start":575.464,"end":603.579,"text":"也是民主國家然後用的所謂的攻打國會理由跟民進黨87%相像啊所以這個部分應該還是有那個憲政機關來互相尊重我要跟大家講今天南韓最後坦白講我覺得接近總統政變了總統在推翻民主總統在推翻憲政用的理由就是民進黨現在用的理由可是還好南韓我覺得的民主的根基是深厚的"},{"start":604.998,"end":630.209,"text":"顯然他們的軍隊也沒那麼配合所以這個總統想要遂行個人的意志來顛覆民主政權短短幾個小時昨天晚上就失敗了半夜宣布的戒嚴早上起來就不見了這個是今天真的能夠抵抗獨裁者最重要的韌性所以在這邊因為南韓昨天發生這麼重大的事情而且跟國會有關的"},{"start":631.826,"end":635.731,"text":"所以今天在這邊也來救教一下副秘書長 最後還是一個簡單的結論尹錫悅瘋了啦 但民進黨更瘋 進來就肯定尹錫悅瘋狂的民進黨 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":682,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時31分）主席，有請張副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：請教副秘書長，南韓總統尹錫悅昨天深夜宣布緊急戒嚴令，還派出武裝部隊試圖攻入議會大廈，要逮捕參加會議的國會議員。你身為國會的工作人員，對於尹錫悅這種宣布戒嚴，甚至用軍事力量來攻擊國會的作法，你怎麼看？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上民主憲政國家不應該用這種方式來處理。"],["羅委員智強：好，不應該，所以你不認同這個作法，但是我要告訴大家，民進黨立法院黨團可是非常認同啊！他在尹錫悅宣布戒嚴令之後的第一時間，就發出一個貼文，我把第一段唸給副秘書長聽：「南韓國會被親北韓勢力操控，南韓總統尹錫悅為守護自由憲政體制，緊急宣布全國戒嚴。」我聽到民進黨說，肯定尹錫悅的戒嚴是為了守護自由的憲政體制，我說真的，我的下巴都被嚇到快掉下來，我不知道今天副秘書長，這新聞你有看到吧！對不對？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：有。"],["羅委員智強：如果很不方便回答，我就不問。我覺得任何正常的我們臺灣民眾，聽到民進黨去肯定戒嚴，還說這叫做守護自由憲政體制，下巴全部會嚇到掉下來。我只能說權力使人瘋狂，但尹錫悅讓民進黨瘋狂啊！尹錫悅這樣的一個戒嚴的動作，整個民進黨好像馬上就是原形畢露，就立刻把羊皮外衣脫掉，狼性就展現出來了。另外，尹錫悅宣布戒嚴，想要動用軍隊攻占國會，他的理由是什麼，不知道副秘書長知道嗎？他有兩個理由。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：請委員指示。"],["羅委員智強：一個是在野黨癱瘓政府，另外一個是要鏟除親北韓勢力。我不知道秘書長聽起來有沒有覺得很熟悉，非常有既視感，因為這不是在南韓發生而已啊！過去這一年在我們立法院，當我們在追超思雞蛋、當我們在審預算、民進黨的浪費、當我們在揪出今天民進黨把就業安定基金當作自己的小金庫、當我們在監督民進黨殘害文官、踐踏文官、霸凌文官種種事情的時候，民進黨扣的帽子是什麼？就是我們癱瘓政府啊！就是我們變成是所謂親共的勢力，也難怪今天尹錫悅宣布戒嚴，民進黨會這麼嗨，真的是秒發文耶！速度極快，雖然後來刪文了啦！速度非常快，把他的心聲說出來了嘛！民進黨可能恨自己慢了一步，尹錫悅做到了，民進黨沒來得及做到，他可能恨這件事情。跟民進黨的論調完全一樣，這不是我個人的主觀感受，抱歉，民進黨立法院黨團的貼文，除了第一段大大地肯定尹錫悅的戒嚴是為了守護自由憲政體制，它的第二段、第三段講的是什麼？講的就是藍、白癱瘓政府，民進黨在抵抗世界級的暗黑勢力，就跟尹錫悅一模一樣啊！","我想請問，大家去想一件事情，剛剛副秘書長已經講到了，你也不認同這個作法，到底尹錫悅宣布戒嚴，您覺得他是在守護自由憲政體制，還是破壞自由憲政體制？您覺得？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上，自由民主的社會都應該尊重個人表達意見的權利，至於尹錫悅是基於什麼樣的狀況去作這樣的決定，我想這個部分我不便予以置評。"],["羅委員智強：這個你回答保守，沒有關係，但下一個問題恐怕你的回答就跟立法院直接相關了。我問你，我們偉大的民進黨立法院黨團，很負責任地臚列出為什麼要肯定尹錫悅的戒嚴，是為捍衛自由的憲政體制。它其中有一個理由我看到真的是頭都暈了，它說因為立法院百般刁難王義川就職，民進黨衝冠一怒為義川吶！原來拚戒嚴、肯定戒嚴、擁戴尹錫悅是為了王義川啊！好，問題來了，我想請問，這個問題很嚴肅，請問副秘書長，大院有百般刁難王義川就職嗎？有沒有？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：沒有。"],["羅委員智強：沒有啊！那為什麼它要說你百般刁難王義川就職呢？為什麼？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分我們並不是很清楚。"],["羅委員智強：民進黨說真的，它腦袋到底是塞棉花還是塞木屑啊？你今天隨便掰理由，也要掰出一個有本有據的理由，什麼叫做百般刁難王義川就職？我這樣講啦！就往例來講，過去不分區立委的遞補大概要多少時間？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：不分區立委的遞補程序有幾個過程，第一個部分就是，立委辭職以後我們先奉院長核定，去函中選會還有內政部註銷名籍；第二個程序是中選會會依選罷法規定在15日內公告遞補；第三個程序是中選會公告以後會函請司法院派大法官監誓，這個宣誓時間則會協商院長、大法官還有委員的時間辦理宣誓，以往平均的時間大概是一個禮拜。"],["羅委員智強：一個禮拜？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：本次宣誓時間也在一個禮拜左右。"],["羅委員智強：對嘛！民進黨有點學問好不好？沒有常識、沒有知識，起碼也要去考據一下嘛！洪申翰是11月25號接任勞動部長，王義川是12月2號在立法院宣誓就職沒錯吧？那就是一個禮拜啊！別人一個禮拜沒事，你王義川一個禮拜叫做刁難他，你王義川是皇帝還是有什麼金身，有黃金塗在身上，碰不得，就是跟人家不一樣！","更好笑的是，竟然王義川可以成為民進黨衝冠一怒拚戒嚴、肯定戒嚴的一個理由。說是為了自由憲政體制支持尹錫悅戒嚴、肯定尹錫悅戒嚴，搞了半天竟然是為了王義川！你民進黨不要笑死人好不好？","再下一個，我也要跟副秘書長講，謝謝你剛剛回答得很清楚，不要讓這些抹黑黨在那邊亂抹黑，像剛剛那樣要拿出鐵證來打臉他們，一個禮拜的時間，什麼叫做刁難？別人一個禮拜不叫刁難，你一個禮拜叫刁難，莫名奇妙的民進黨！","再下一個，我就要問跟您、跟國會有關的，這是跟國會的安全跟尊嚴有關的問題。當然我們萬萬不期待南韓的情況在臺灣發生，但是如果今天我們的總統真的跟尹錫悅一樣，賴清德跟尹錫悅一樣宣布戒嚴，如果還動用軍隊來攻占國會、逮捕國會議員，我想請問這種情形發生的話，在法制上、在現況上立法院會如何因應？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上，憲法上國會有家宅權，有家宅權當然就會有防禦的配置。"],["羅委員智強：但你面對的是國軍，是軍隊、是武裝部隊耶！你有辦法防禦嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分……"],["羅委員智強：還有一個問題，能防禦嗎？總統下令軍隊來打國會，國會就算有自己的駐衛警，國會的駐衛警能夠去跟軍隊……不要講能力啦！我就講法制上它能夠防禦嗎？還是大門一開就讓軍隊進來？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：實質上，這個是勢力非常懸殊。第二個部分，就法制層面來看，不應該有這種情況發生，因為既然是……"],["羅委員智強：在南韓也不應該有這種情況發生，南韓是不是民主國家？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是民主國家。"],["羅委員智強：也是民主國家啊！它所持攻打國會的理由跟民進黨87%相像啊！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：所以這個部分憲政機關還是應該要互相尊重啦！"],["羅委員智強：我要跟大家講，今天南韓最後……坦白講，我覺得這件事情是總統政變，總統在推翻民主、推翻憲政，用的理由就是民進黨現在用的理由，還好我覺得南韓的民主根基是深厚的，顯然他們的軍隊也沒那麼配合，所以這個總統想遂行個人的意志顛覆民主政權，昨天晚上短短幾個小時就失敗了，半夜宣布了戒嚴，早上起來就不見了。這個是今天真的能夠抵抗獨裁者最重要的韌性，因為南韓昨天發生這麼重大的事件，而且還是跟國會有關的，所以今天在這邊也要就教一下副秘書長。","我最後還是要做個簡單的結論，尹錫悅瘋了，但民進黨更瘋，竟然還去肯定尹錫悅，瘋狂的民進黨！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來休息5分鐘。","休息（10時42分）","繼續開會（10時47分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","接下來我們請林思銘委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}