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伯弟我跟你講現在花生中央部會確確實實有很多部會啦那當然我們也是民內在內啦所以我還是要提醒部長真的"},{"start":340.21,"end":368.142,"text":"關苗殺人是非常重要不信事情不要再發生因為我一向都非常尊敬你是從業界來你是一個看起來就是溫溫如牙我希望這個事情除了你的政策管好你這些人員還是要去管好好不好好那我現在就特別要跟來那個那個我們那個"},{"start":369.746,"end":374.268,"text":"主席處處長來上來協助一下來好來主席處長部長你也要在啊因為我執行是執行你來我在想齁三年來"},{"start":391.4,"end":415.359,"text":"我們徵購機房徵購機房這裡面就包括在一般行政資訊管理跟設備投資編列總共的預算4000多萬然後聯繫三年加起來7600萬也就是購置機房我真的很納悶"},{"start":417.093,"end":440.739,"text":"你這個機房每一年購置你到底目的何在?你是在養黃金喔?還是在挖礦?現在很流行挖礦是不是把這個機房全部擺在那裡挖礦你知道嗎?部長挖礦就是說機房很多就要挖挖挖挖挖挖不然你們為什麼連續三年7600萬都是在購置機房來部長你說一下那個"},{"start":448.133,"end":450.699,"text":"這我要請那個我們主席處長來好來處長你說明為什麼報告委員齁那"},{"start":455.922,"end":479.291,"text":"主要部的資訊他是一部兩署是共用的他並不會在部裡面不是我講的是我講的是購置機房啦其他的部分不要講為什麼會這樣啊因為機房是等於三個機關共用一個機房所以他必須比較大一點那因為現在我們的系統也蠻多需要做整合包括"},{"start":480.712,"end":495.267,"text":"對外面的所以必須就是會陸續來徵購這個機房這個機房你每年都購買機房那這個購買機房你們現在是都是用租的嘛那為什麼人員有成長這麼大嗎"},{"start":496.969,"end":525.334,"text":"我跟你講部長我坦白跟你講你也編列預算也不會這麼細啦我希望本席提出來的問題你們好好解釋因為我看出來就是不正常就是不是在我養網金就是在挖礦啊不然你們也每一年為什麼都要編幾千萬去購置這種機房所以這個部分部長你要把它當成一回事你不要到時候我把這些預算全部刪了你不能怪我因為我是理性問政"},{"start":526.795,"end":546.014,"text":"該給的我一定給但是你像現在處長所講的這樣我是不能接受的你要好好的去把它列出來為什麼連續三年連續三年甚至於你把那個相片都照來我認為是一個事實是有必要那當然我們要支持啊我們一向我坦白跟你講"},{"start":547.155,"end":574.181,"text":"現在的立法委員他是非常理性的啦該給的一定給啦不該給的一定刪啦所以這一點我希望部長能夠了解一下還有來那個處長我再請問一下另外支通安全的防疫計畫還有潤性強化計畫以及數位資深生態防護推動總共編"},{"start":577.041,"end":604.556,"text":"一億兩千萬請問一下啊這個項目都不是一樣嗎啊為什麼要編都同同樣是這樣啊然後編編這個預算所以處長你也不要跟我答覆那為什麼會這樣你也不要答覆實體下你來解釋我認為有理由那沒話講但是這個整個部分在我們翻這些資料你們都不寫清楚啊"},{"start":605.416,"end":605.957,"text":"還有最後一個"},{"start":626.656,"end":641.76,"text":"最後一個系統開花業務都不變喔出定業務不變喔不變但是為何增加今年增加一百四十九萬七千塊為什麼你的系統開花業務為什麼出定為什麼這個是資訊處處長簡單回答"},{"start":654.287,"end":681.03,"text":"委員報告就是因為我們的公共系統是向上集中到我們部會來那我們的這些公共系統包含官網、EIP跟供應系統這些功能的話就是每年要做一些功能的徵修對所以會有一些系統開發好我要拜託齁銀端黃火軟體這不是買過了嗎去年不是買過了為什麼一買再買呢為什麼為什麼那個是每年的收權費"},{"start":682.681,"end":683.682,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":706.656,"end":724.698,"text":"是台灣的建設我們不會砍人民的福祉我們不會砍其他的部分一分一毫民脂民膏都不能浪費這一點我要特別提醒部長那我也特別請處長你們要該解釋的要結束清楚好不好好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":188,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時36分）謝謝召委，請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["林委員國成：部長早。我從來沒有看到沛祥委員這麼生氣。"],["黃部長彥男：對，嚇我一跳。"],["林委員國成：我特別要提醒，當部長的人、當長官的人一定要特別去注意，任何事情要尊重三分，如果不尊重整個文官體制，文官體制承受不了就會認知為霸凌。我今天特別要請教部長，在11月29號第19屆資安技能金盾獎致詞的時候，你特別提到每一年貴單位要任用5,000個人，我這裡必須要提醒，施政不能靠口號、不能隨便亂開支票，人家說「上不正即下歪」，所以你會開這種空頭支票，底下的人就有樣學樣，若沒樣就自己想，所以才會造成現在賴總統、卓院長都跟全國人民道歉，霸凌的問題當然是環環相扣。部長，你在11月29號有沒有講貴部要任用5,000個資安人員？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，我的意思是我們會訓練5,000個人員，這5,000人是我們資安的培訓……"],["林委員國成：你們怎麼訓練？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有不同的課程，可以由資安署做個報告，但這個不是我們要補實，我們沒有那麼多名額，我們是要培養資安人員到政府跟業界去服務。"],["林委員國成：你要講清楚啊！"],["黃部長彥男：那個記者在這邊報導，確實……"],["林委員國成：你要講清楚啦！部長，你要知道，我很尊敬你，老實人不能亂講話。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["林委員國成：我坦白講，連你到外面致詞，我們都非常注意，你可以發現到立法委員不是塑膠，連你在外面所講的話，我們都知道，那也沒有關係，不管是記者誤解或者你的幕僚給你的資訊是誤解，我們姑且不談，只是讓你有一個警惕。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["林委員國成：尤其在主管所有數位產業發展跟監督業務的情況之下，一個首長講出來的話是涵蓋整個部的所有政策，所以要特別注意，如果是誤解，那也就是誤解，連我都覺得不可能做到，因為一年所有資安畢業的學生也只不過是1萬7,000人，你們就可以網羅5,000個人，這些是有所出入的，所以我希望部長以後在外面談政策當然要謹言慎行。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員的提醒。"],["林委員國成：不要讓人家產生誤解，那就不好了。我坦白跟你講，我上一次對於整個你們兩署的部分，也就是低薪、福利差、加班費砍掉，這個我是不以為然的，在這個部分我必須要去提醒，到現在你們都沒有去解釋為什麼，所以你們可以看113年跟114年的數字，拜託，你們有兩項，獎金也好，加班費也好，都是遞減，加班費遞減27%，獎金是17%，這個部分我還是要提醒部長，我跟你說，對員工、對我們公務人員也不要那麼刻薄，他們有一定的加班跟一定的獎金制度，所以部長你要特別提醒一下，要注意這些。","部長，我現在又要講霸凌的事，請問一下，關於韌性建設司還有資安署女主管這些事情，你們到底現在調查到什麼程度？"],["黃部長彥男：我們啟動調查以後就有外部專家委員，包括心理諮商師跟律師，這個報告會在12月11號以前出來，我們會根據這個報告的結果做立即處置，這個部分我們目前在進行中。"],["林委員國成：好啦，部長，我跟你講，現在發生在中央部會，確確實實有很多部會啦，當然我們也是名列在內，所以我還是要提醒部長，「官僚殺人」的問題真的非常重要，希望不幸的事情不要再發生。部長，我一向都非常尊敬你，你是從業界來，你看起來就是溫文儒雅、老實人，這個事情除了你的政策管好，這些人員還是要去管好，好不好？接下來請主計處處長上來協助一下。"],["主席：來，主計處處長。"],["林委員國成：部長你也要在，因為我是質詢你。我在想，3年來我們在增購機房的部分，這裡面就包括在「一般行政」資訊管理─設備投資，總共編列四千多萬的預算，連續3年加起來7,600萬，也就是購置機房的部分，我真的很納悶，你這個機房每一年都購置，到底目的何在？你是在養網軍還是在挖礦？現在很流行挖礦，是不是把這個機房全部擺在那裡？你知道挖礦嗎？部長。"],["黃部長彥男：知道。"],["林委員國成：挖礦就是機種很多，就在那邊挖、挖、挖，不然你們為什麼連續3年共7,600萬都是在購置機房？來，部長，你說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：這個我要請我們主計處長來說明。"],["林委員國成：好，處長你來說明為什麼。"],["李處長錫東：報告委員，數發部的資訊是一部兩署共用的，它並不會在部裡面……"],["林委員國成：不是，我講的是購置機房啦，其他的部分不要講，為什麼會這樣？"],["李處長錫東：因為等於3個機關共用1個機房，所以它必須比較大一點，因為現在我們的系統也滿多，需要整合，包括對外面的，所以就是會陸續增購。"],["林委員國成：這個機房……"],["李處長錫東：當然也有計畫的啦。"],["林委員國成：你每年都編預算購買機房，而購買機房，你們現在都是用租的嘛，人員有成長這麼大嗎？我跟你講，部長，我坦白跟你講，你編列預算也不會這麼細啦，我希望本席提出來的問題你們要好好解釋，因為我看出來就是不正常，這不是在養網軍就是在挖礦，不然你們每年為什麼都要編幾千萬去購置這種機房？部長，這個部分你要把它當成一回事，不要到時候我把這些預算全部刪了，你不能怪我，因為我是理性問政，該給的我一定給，但是像現在處長所講的這樣，我是不能接受的，你要好好的去把它列出來，為什麼連續3年都編？甚至你可以把那個相片都照過來，我認為是一個事實、是有必要的話，那當然我們要支持啊！我坦白跟你講，現在的立法委員是非常理性的啦，該給的一定給，不該給的一定刪啦，所以這一點我希望部長能夠了解一下。","處長，我再請問一下，資通安全的防禦計畫還有韌性強化計畫，以及數位資安生態防護推動總共編1億2,000萬，請問一下，這個項目都不是一樣嗎？為什麼要編？同樣是這樣，然後就編這個預算，處長，你也不要跟我答復為什麼會這樣，你也不要答復，請私底下來跟我解釋，我認為有理由，那沒話講，但是這整個部分，我們在翻這些資料的時候覺得你們都不寫清楚，都在打混仗，這個部分就這樣分一分，然後整個大項目，而小項目你們也不講，還要勞駕我們每一筆、每一筆去對，說明你們也說明不清楚。請問一下，這個審預算怎麼會那麼輕鬆呢？","還有最後一個就是系統開發，業務都不變喔，處長，業務不變喔，部長，但是為何今年增加149萬7,000塊？為什麼？就是你的系統開發業務，處長，為什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：請資訊處處長簡單說明一下。"],["周處長智禾：跟委員報告，就是因為我們的共用系統是向上集中到我們部會來，我們的這些共用系統包含官網、EIP跟公文系統，這些功能每年要做一些功能增修，所以會有一些系統開發的……"],["林委員國成：好，我要拜託一點，關於你們的雲端防火軟體，這不是買過了嗎？去年不是買過了，為什麼一買再買呢？為什麼？"],["周處長智禾：那個是每年的授權費，現在雲端大概都是採1年授權1次，所以每年都要買授權。"],["林委員國成：好，關於系統開發增加的部分，我也希望你們能夠講清楚，有理由的我們絕對支持，但是沒有理由的，部長，請原諒，我們該砍的一定砍，本黨已經很清楚的告訴大家，只要是臺灣的建設，我們不會砍，人民的福祉，我們不會砍，其他的部分一分一毫民脂民膏都不能浪費，這一點我要特別提醒部長。我也要特別請處長，你們該解釋的要解釋清楚，好不好？謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好，再跟委員報告，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林國成委員。接下來請李昆澤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}